I was watching CBS last night and they were promoting how it was remastered in High Definition it will show 12/4/07 at 8pm ET/PT

dvr'd it last year, looks absolutely incredible - too incredible sometimes, cuz there are scenes when you can actually discern the fishing-line type wires affixed to Rudolph, et al. I kept it on my h10-250 until the machine crashed!

It looks amazing... Frosty The Snowman looks great also.

http://www.uploadgeek.com/thumbs/0/vlcsnap-671294.png (http://www.uploadgeek.com/uploads456/0/vlcsnap-671294.png)

Ironic that it airs the same night and channel as the Victoria's Secret special. Rudolf gets Santa up and Victoria's Secret gets ... never mind :D

Do I recall correctly that it isn't 16x9? Someone might want to confirm that so nobody freaks out about it not being in "HD" if I'm right.

OAR is 4:3

OAR is 4:3


But just like THE GRINCH on ABC HD, it's not really HD if there are black sidebars!:D:D

Hope everyone saw the sarcasm intended in that comment.

For those watching on an O&O CBS station, it will be great. Too bad locally I'm stuck with KTHV and their "THV2" subchannel milking bandwidth. I saw part of RTRNR last year and it was eye poping (the CBS bug will be on the right black bar on the HD feed).

OAR is 4:3

Yes, but can we confirm that's how it will be presented? Was it shown Pillar-Boxed last year? There seems to be a disturbing trend to zoom, stretch, or otherwise distort the original content when presented on an HD channel in order to pander to the idiots ("I paid all this money for a big screen HDTV! What the heck are them black bars doing there? I'm being ripped off!").

Yes, but can we confirm that's how it will be presented? Was it shown Pillar-Boxed last year?

Yes.

Cool. Score one for the "good guys." I'll have to watch it tonight.


Nom de QWERTY wanders off humming "Have a Holly Jolly Christmas"

OAR all the way cuz ya don't wanna to mess with Rudolf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icjh6wGUUfE).

Or "The Bumble"

Brought to you in living color by GE

Ironic that it airs the same night and channel as the Victoria's Secret special. Rudolf gets Santa up and Victoria's Secret gets ... never mind :D
Hummmmmmm lets see, Rudolf in HD :) and Victoria's Secret isn't. :(

Speaking of the show...saw this about the puppets on CNN.

http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/04/real.rudolph.ap/index.html

Hummmmmmm lets see, Rudolf in HD :) and Victoria's Secret isn't. :(The Victoria's Secret special is in HD.

Hummmmmmm lets see, Rudolf in HD :) and Victoria's Secret isn't. :(

....at least in Little Rock, AR

Looks amazing compared to how it does in SD.

Any chance of a repeat airing this month?

It may get a second viewing.

What I would do is do an all new CGI 16:9 HD animation using the folks from BOTH Dreamworks Animation AND Pixar.

The soundtrack would be the original one.

Checked in for a while and I must say I looked fabulous.

It may get a second viewing.

What I would do is do an all new CGI 16:9 HD animation using the folks from BOTH Dreamworks Animation AND Pixar.

The soundtrack would be the original one.

I don't think it would look good and it would not be the same.

I don't think it would look good and it would not be the same.

Amen !

Don't screw with the original.

How TV's 'Rudolph' was saved (http://www.cnn.com/2007/SHOWBIZ/TV/12/04/real.rudolph.ap/index.html)

i didn't get it in hd

i didn't get it in hd

Its in pillarbox you sure your not just thinking it was supposed to be widescreen.

i didn't get it in hd

I'm not sure if it was in HD from Phoenix. It looks to have some analog noise a bit soft and the colors just don't pop kind of looks like a video upconversion of the show.

Yes, I know it's suppose to be 4:3 and that's fine, I'm wondering if my local CBS messed it up.

Currently I'm asking in my local forum if they know if it was in HD or not.

The CBS HD version has the CBS eye logo that extends into the black side bar area and just after a break will show CBS HD for a few seconds.

The CBS HD version has the CBS eye logo that extends into the black side bar area and just after a break will show CBS HD for a few seconds.


Well I just had a confirmation from my local threads forum. Our local CBS screwed it up. I learned they showed it in HD last year, however this year they dropped the red nose at the station.

I just got off the phone with engineering at my local CBS station. I was told they were having a server problem (lost their HD) during Rudolph. So that's what happened. This weekend Frosty the Snowman at least according to people here is suppose to be in HD. Hopefully, my local CBS won't have a server problem at that time too.

It may get a second viewing.

What I would do is do an all new CGI 16:9 HD animation using the folks from BOTH Dreamworks Animation AND Pixar.

The soundtrack would be the original one.

Updating Rudolph would require a lot more than CGI!!!

First off, there are several acts of pointless violence that need edited out (for example, during the elf song to Santa one of the elves strikes another one on the head for no good reason).

Say good-bye to Yukon's pistol (why didn't he just shoot the friggin bumble?!?).

Rudolph is a cartoon that couldn't be made today. Could you imagine an episode of Dora the Explorer where she is threatened by a creature that could disembowel her? Or maybe the episode of Rugrats where Chucky is taught overt shame at being a redhead -- by his parents!

If they touched Rudolph they'd screw it up, because they wouldn't stop at doing the animation. They'd go after the politically incorrect aspects.

Half the joy we had watching it last night was laughing about the stuff you couldn't get away with today.

Put it on Toonami. Problem solved.:)

Updating Rudolph would require a lot more than CGI!!!

First off, there are several acts of pointless violence that need edited out (for example, during the elf song to Santa one of the elves strikes another one on the head for no good reason).

Say good-bye to Yukon's pistol (why didn't he just shoot the friggin bumble?!?).

Rudolph is a cartoon that couldn't be made today. Could you imagine an episode of Dora the Explorer where she is threatened by a creature that could disembowel her? Or maybe the episode of Rugrats where Chucky is taught overt shame at being a redhead -- by his parents!

If they touched Rudolph they'd screw it up, because they wouldn't stop at doing the animation. They'd go after the politically incorrect aspects.

Half the joy we had watching it last night was laughing about the stuff you couldn't get away with today.

...Not to meantion, all of the other reindeer that used to laugh and call him names would be seen as products of a violent society, placed on medication and expelled from the reindeer school for creating a hostile environment.

Of course, Clarice would also be expelled for her kissing Rudolph, since school rules specifically prohibit sexual contact between students.

Rudolph would be placed on Riddlin following the kiss for his obvious Attention Deficit Hyperactivity Disorder when he leaps about yelling "I'm cute!"

Santa would be fined an possibly serve federal time for failing to observe minimum wage and labor laws.

The Head Elf would be fired for creating a hostile work environment.

Bumbles would be placed on medication to combat agressive behavior from playing too many video games.

Yukon Cornelius and Hermey would be arrested for kidnapping and corruption of a minor (aka: Rudolph). After all, it could be said Rudolph only went with Yukon because he offered treats of "silver and gold". However, Hermey would be required to attend counceling sessions in regards to his desire to become a dentist since, as we all know, dentists have a high rate of suicide potentially from unhappiness derrived from the pain they inflict on others. Both would be found to have abusive parents.

Rudolph's parents would be seen as unfit and he would immediately be removed and placed in foster care.

The flying coach would be fired for abuse of his students.

The Victoria's Secret special is in HD.

I stand corrected, it was. Zap2it.com didn't show the "HD" logo in the listing.

Looks like Bob Barker got to poor Rudolf.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5562/rudolf1mcvs3.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2491/rudolf1xp9.jpg)

But if they redid Rudolph for HBO then they could leave all these things in and Rudolph could use the f-word in every other sentence. Plus they wouldn't have to pretend that Hermey isn't gay.

Plus they wouldn't have to pretend that Hermey isn't gay.
...not that there's anything wrong with that... ;)

But if they redid Rudolph for HBO then they could leave all these things in and Rudolph could use the f-word in every other sentence. Plus they wouldn't have to pretend that Hermey isn't gay.

That isn't HBO! Showtime is the gay-obsessed network. Jeez.

Looks like Bob Barker got to poor Rudolf.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/5562/rudolf1mcvs3.jpg (http://img204.imageshack.us/img204/2491/rudolf1xp9.jpg)

My wife and I watched on the DVR last night and we were just rolling laughing from that shot...

Try and keep an eye on the ABC family channel, I know its not HD but I do recall them reshowing some of these.

That isn't HBO! Showtime is the gay-obsessed network. Jeez.

I admit I don't have premium cable. I assumed HBO had an equivalent to The L Word and the other Showtime shows I rent on DVD.

FWIW "political correctness" isn't a monopoly of the left. The Religious Right do it all the time in their own way......

Bottom line, I *still* don't want to see an "updated" Rudolph

Raging Rudolf (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=icjh6wGUUfE) and The Reinfather (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lEumZuJXqYM&feature=related) were funny updates on Mad TV.

So if "true" HD is 1920x1080 16x9 then what resolution is the 4x3 HD Rudolph?

1920 x 1080. The active picture area (excluding the bug) is 1440 x 1080. The pillars are 240 pixels wide on each side. Rudolf is true HD in terms of resolution. An SD upconversion would scale from 720x483.

How long was the show? I recorded from 7:59 to 9:01 and missed the very end of the show :-( CBS even said in an ad that another show would be on at 9. I'd definitely like to know if it will be repeated this year.

Rudolph ran over a few minutes than the hour. It did it last year and I remembered that so I set the HD-DVR to record five extra minutes. :)

Rudolph ran over a few minutes than the hour. It did it last year and I remembered that so I set the HD-DVR to record five extra minutes. :)


CBS pulled an ABC...during the final scenes it faded to commerical to squeeze a few extra in, then ran over 4 mintues or so.

CBS here in FL aired this, they kept saying remastered in HD so I looked forward to seeing it, when it aired it was NOT in HD, they messed up, I still set the tv guide on my Sony DVR HDD500 but I was SUPER bummed when I missed the last 5 minutes cause it went over. :mad:

Any chance they will re-air this again in HD?

CBS here in FL aired this, they kept saying remastered in HD so I looked forward to seeing it, when it aired it was NOT in HD, they messed up, I still set the tv guide on my Sony DVR HDD500 but I was SUPER bummed when I missed the last 5 minutes cause it went over. :mad:

Any chance they will re-air this again in HD?

Probably next year, though I hope I'm wrong. Why do you say it was not in HD? Was it because it was in a 4:3 format? Or because you could tell that it was upconverted SD?

CBS pulled an ABC...during the final scenes it faded to commerical to squeeze a few extra in, then ran over 4 mintues or so.
Now wait a minute - NBC was the one that started that whole practice of running shows past the hour/half hour mark.

Did anybody else notice that the audio was VERY warbly? It sounded like a reel to reel that was broken... Time to remaster the audio...

That isn't HBO! Showtime is the gay-obsessed network. Jeez.

Is there a problem with Showtime being an obsessed gay network?

Did anybody else notice that the audio was VERY warbly? It sounded like a reel to reel that was broken... Time to remaster the audio...


Not broken, simply a audio distortion called WOW people are not used to hearing anymore due to better quality analog playback equipment today and now with digital audio, you really can't hear WOW and FLUTTER at all even though its' still there. The difference is with digital audio, the distortion is so low, it's not even measurable. The distortion you heard was mostly near the very end of the movie and it sounded like to me it was duped from the audio from a 16mm film projector that got bogged down towards the end of the reel. It's harder on the mechanics of the machine to pull the film through via it's sprockets when there's very little film left on the reel...as apposed to pulling the film via it's sprockets when the reel is full. When the reel is full, there is much less resistance and therefore much easier for the intermittent mechanism to pull the film at a even steady pace. The same thing happens on poorly built, poorly designed reel to reel equipment...even happens on poorly made and or worn down cassette decks.

Even worst, who knows what film source was used for the HD conversion that was made in 2005. Another words, I have the feeling that the film used for the HD conversion already had WOW from it's source on top of WOW that's created from the playing back on the analog equipment being used for the HD dupe...well maybe not if only a high quality scanning machine was used, then it would probably pull the film through at a dead steady pace and the only WOW we would hear would be from the distortion that was created by the original source as the film was originally being duped. Otherwise if not, then were talking about WOW on top of WOW.

To fix it today would mean to remaster the audio (and images) digitally. And unless there's a way for a computer to capture the audio and for it to recognize pitch differences and be able to adjust for them automatically, it would be a very long hard job to fix the WOW distortion by ear, thought that would be easier to fix as to compared to FLUTTER and that would need work too. I'm sure it could be done, however if they go through the trouble of such a restoration then they minus well spend the money and have Lowry Digital take care of things. Actually, it would be interesting to see what Lowry Digital could do with a masterpiece like Rudolph.

Here I talk about Rudolph's audio quality, if interested, I have what I think is a very interesting post about Rudolph's image quality here...
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12429453#post12429453

Sounded like bad resolving or chasing. This was also on previous showings. The wowing effect is often caused by slow slewing to resynchronize. A possibility was that the original track may have been on 1/4" with pilot tone and the deck was having a difficult time with resolving the pilot tone. Sorry to say that IMO that's just sloppy. I think a better way now is to transfer unresolved and do it in a DAW. This could have been done after the pitch errors were introduced.

Wow was not inherent in analog and film systems. Digital is better in this respect, but analog was also very good. 60hz pilot tone was common for field recordings on Nagra 3Ls. In the post process it was common for everything to lock to power 60hz.

Sounded like bad resolving or chasing. This was also on previous showings. The wowing effect is often caused by slow slewing to resynchronize. A possibility was that the original track may have been on 1/4" with pilot tone and the deck was having a difficult time with resolving the pilot tone. Sorry to say that IMO that's just sloppy. I think a better way now is to transfer unresolved and do it in a DAW. This could have been done after the pitch errors were introduced.

Wow was not inherent in analog and film systems. Digital is better in this respect, but analog was also very good. 60hz pilot tone was common for field recordings on Nagra 3Ls. In the post process it was common for everything to lock to power 60hz.


With POOR analog equipment it is. Records pressed off center by a touch creates that sound, when film with a magnetic audio track can't be pulled at a steady rate, it creates that sound. If you noticed, that WOW sound is really bad just at the end, (as far as I could tell) indicating to me that it could have come from a 16mm print on a 16mm projector just towards the end of the reel. Same thing happens at the end of a audio reel on a older or worn down reel to reel tape recorder/players. The rubber pinch roller drys out and the tape slips creating lots of flutter. Who knows, maybe that distortion is on the original source and then simply transferred to what ever copy CBS used for their HD scan.

Even good turntables, reel to reel decks, cassette recorders and any and all pro analog equipment have measurable WOW and FLUTTER, though it's so low even golden ears would be very hard pressed to hear it. As you know, digital audio at a constant clock rate it's wow and flutter is at such a low rating, it's unmeasurable.

The "60hz pilot tone" you have mentioned, I have read about such things before. If it was kept at that constant rate, and mastered from the original source, then I don't see any reason why it would have that distortion. Unless the copy that was made from the master CBS used for the HD version was not made very well. Another words, the film dupe CBS has may not have been carefully made. If it was from "bad resolving or chasing" then CBS dropped the ball and it should have been remasterd. Simply because no golden ears are required to hear how bad that distortion is. And like you said, it's been on previous showings. So their copy is from a bad source or really poorly mastered.

Who knows what playback equipment was used or how the copy they have was made and when, or what generation it is for that matter. If Rudolph was scanned from the original negative or positive with the master audio recordings used as the audio source, then this end result is a very sad case indeed still needing much more work than the CBS HD scan provided.

The "60hz pilot tone" you have mentioned, I have read about such things before. If it was kept at that constant rate, and mastered from the original source, then I don't see any reason why it would have that distortion. I used to resolve older tapes (with some modified Nagra T-Audios I modified to resolve pilot tone tapes to 59.94 hz color black) and would run into this issue occasionally. It could be the age of the tape and the deck playing it back had marginal pilot tone levels. This is even assuming that a tape was the source, although that was common for production in that era. The audio source for the transfer could have been a mag, an optical track from a print or even an older video tape transfer. I don't know the details of this transfer as to where the elements came from, but I did notice that that the error was not constant through the show. The few areas that had this problem probably could be fixed even now with some careful massaging. This is now within the realm of common desktop software.

The few areas that had this problem probably could be fixed even now with some careful massaging. This is now within the realm of common desktop software.
Absolutely. My version of Sound Forge as a plug in for that very thing. On the other hand, perhaps those little "problems" we see and hear are really part of the charm. It makes TV techs grateful that Santa made it through the fog to deliver the new and better gear... ;)

Now wait a minute - NBC was the one that started that whole practice of running shows past the hour/half hour mark.

I thought MTV was the one who started that with the Real World back in 1991. They finally had a show that got significant ratings so they squeezed it for all they could.

Is MTV a real network? Maybe in 1991. Didn't they play music videos back then?

Is MTV a real network? Maybe in 1991. Didn't they play music videos back then?
That's exactly what I was thinking... ;)

As general rule most old movies and TV shows will filmed on either 16mm, 35mm, or 70mm film stock.

Both 35mm and 70mm is superior to HD, and 16mm is better then standard TV.

To remaster film they generally go back to original camera footage, scan it in at either 8k or 4k (really High Def) re-edit it, and then downscale it too 2k/1080P.

Basically every major show since "I love Lucy" (excluding a lot of news shows, and talk shows) was filmed in HD.

That's why they are able to remaster these old shows.

Basically every major show since "I love Lucy" (excluding a lot of news shows, and talk shows) was filmed in HD.

That's why they are able to remaster these old shows.And edited in HD too (film finish), except for that era in the 80s & 90s where they saved a few bucks and created SD masters. Even worse the original editing information is mostly gone too. Guess video mastering isn't such a bargain now to go back to the negatives and try to match the original.