Originally posted by Wayne Zworld
I then spoke to Nick in tech support and he said to put up a post here. He’s never heard of this problem before, and suggested a complete restore.
The thought of reloading everything DOES NOT TURN ME ON… please help..

Down and out, in Soverseinsville…
Wayne

Ahhh . . . I love it. Kenwood Tech Support says go to AVS Forum for an answer.

Nick :cool:

I’m running the Hub and 5900 since last summer. I have about 200 CD’s, 3500 MP3’s with all the cover and 150 DVD’s with about 70% of the cover art.
I was at the point last week when I just started feeling comfortable with the system, “big mistake” because as we all know Murphy is hiding behind every door, and Murphy was an “Optimist”.
I just got the new Fleetwood Mac CD and can no longer record to the hard drive.
After ripping the CD, I tried loading to the hub with media manager, it starts to transfer files then to quickly goes to 100%. When finished synchronizing the music is not loaded. The hub reports 148 track available.
When I tried to record directly from the CD in the hub tray it says not enough space available, I erased 3 complete MP3 albums yet it still reports not enough space. I’ve tried the 5555 thing, used different CD’s MP3 sources, and rebooted already.

I then spoke to Nick in tech support and he said to put up a post here. He’s never heard of this problem before, and suggested a complete restore.
The thought of reloading everything DOES NOT TURN ME ON… please help..

Down and out, in Soverseinsville…
Wayne

I spent half a day trying to figure out why my entre would not download any dvd information. turns out the switch in the back had been moved to one of the sub positions. So even though the entre recognized there was a changer attached, it would attempt to read the dvd and then get confused. I had to put it back on main and turn the dvd player off and on again.

In the course of troubleshooting this problem, I did a factory reset of the entre. I noticed that it didn't erase the mp3s. Do I have to use Media Manager to remove the mp3s from the hard drive?

Second, since I did a factory reset, I got to see the informational screens that introduce you to the entre. I noticed that if you have a sovereing receiver, the entre will list your fm stations in the guide? I don't recall anyone ever mentioning this in this thread. Has anyone verified this and does it work? After I have the entre all set up, I will try it to see.

Third, do you gain any advantage to having the digital port routed through the entre? The only reason I could come up with was to simplify the connections required, but since I have a universal remote with macros, I don't think it would buy me much.

Fourth, does anyone know what device the entre is modeled after for remote control operation? My remote control of choice is code driven so I need to assign the entre a device category and a code. I am guessing it will be vcr category.

Local Radio Stations

Yes, the entre lists mine. It actually lists those within about a 3 hour drive that I can't get on a normal radio. I rarely use it so I cannot speak to quality, but the few times I've tried it, it worked.

I took a quick look at the mp3s on the system and they seem to be a collection of single mp3s. I am wondering if that is what the entre comes with which is why re-initializing the entire system didn't erase them.

The first one reads Bird something. Is that you guys had when you first fired up the entre? I figured out I can delete the mp3s from within one of the menus in the music screen. But now I am going to listen to them to see if any are worth keeping.

Can you random play with the mp3s stored in the hard drive?

I am enjoying the entre more the second time around. I agree with what someone said earlier, the gui is not consistent. Sometimes you have to select exit, and other times you need to press exit. That is annoying.

Another annoying thing is that it doesn't group the marked dvds together when you edit a category. That makes it a little harder to take things out of a category. But not having to enter the majority of the titles is a big plus.

It gives you slot numbers which will help out when I finally start my dvdprofiler project.

Originally posted by slocko
Can you random play with the mp3s stored in the hard drive?


Indeed you can. Highlight the MP3 part of the guide, press Options, Play Mode and Suffle Group. All MP3s will be played randomly. I use this a lot. Just remember to put the play mode back to Normal when you're done, otherwise it will play CDs in Random mode as well. Unless you want to do that too.

Bob

thxs.

Has anyone figured out the phrase to pull up Secret of Nimh?

Out of my 400 discs 30 are uknown, with Monsters being one of them which I was surprised. Just starting to go through them now.

Originally posted by slocko
Second, since I did a factory reset, I got to see the informational screens that introduce you to the entre. I noticed that if you have a sovereing receiver, the entre will list your fm stations in the guide? I don't recall anyone ever mentioning this in this thread. Has anyone verified this and does it work? After I have the entre all set up, I will try it to see.

Fourth, does anyone know what device the entre is modeled after for remote control operation? My remote control of choice is code driven so I need to assign the entre a device category and a code. I am guessing it will be vcr category.

Entre will download and list local AM and FM radio stations (including their call name and genre: talk, rock, etc) when connected to a Sovereign receiver in separate AM and FM groups next to Internet radio stations. When you select an AM or FM station via the Entre menu, the connected receiver switches to Tuner mode and tunes into that frequency - pretty cool.

As far as the device to pick for your universal remote, I would pick CD-R as the device most closely "resembling" Entre, if you have that choice. That's the device Kenwood recommends you choose when copying Entre's remote controls into the learning remote that came with my Sovereign VR-5700 receiver.

--
Umberto

THANKS FOR THE INFO.

Does anyone know why some of the unknowns are in the database? It can't match up the disc with the database? Could it be it can't read the disc correctly?

Only about 5 dvds it couldn't find. The other 25 were there, I just had to do a title search.

Picking cover art is tedious!!!!! So is erasing description information. You can't hold down the delete or back space key.

Now the only left for me to do is redo the categories to my liking. No way I want to re-initialize the system after all this trouble!!!

Has anyone heard anything more on the alleged upgrades for our 5900m's and entres? Just wondering because we only have 8 more days left in April. Hey David, how about getting Kenwood to give us some "official" information on where they are going with the multi-changer support that they advertised when they sold us these things. Just so everyone knows, I actually like my two 5900m's and the entre, it just needs to do what it was advertised to do when we bought them. I don't think there are any better machines on the market RIGHT NOW. But, if Kenwood waits too long, someone else is going to take whatever market share they have with these DVD mega changers. Just my two cents worth.

question for you gents.

do the mp3s play through the digital or analog ports? i know the radio stations are analog, but i am not sure about the mp3s.

MP3's go thru the analog ports.

so if nothing is going out through the digital ports, why are they there for?

i have my dv-5900m connected straight to the receiver. i see no benefit of routing it through the entre.

Well, the CD player/burner in the Entre uses the digital output. And if you are like me and use a different Receiver than the VR-5900, routing the digital output from my Changer to the Entre and then to my receiver not only saves an extra input on my receiver, but also prevents me from having to switch between 2 inputs on my receiver when I go from listening to an MP3 or Internet Radio on the Entre to a CD in my Changer. If you have the VR-5900 Receiver, it switches inputs for you automatically.

Bob

Oh. But I will probably never use the cd burner to play cds. I am on a mission to get everthing in mp3 format.

I hope this update adds support for playing mp3s off a network. That would be the 2nd biggest change expect of course for 3 changer support.

Not to change the subject or anything, but just looked at audiorevolution.com and they have the announcement of the new Kenwood Receiver line (lower-end) and they are complete with a new silver finish. With a large majority of the higher-end companies going with the brushed aluminum or silver finish, do you think the Sovereign line with the upcoming products will also go with the silver look? I think it may give the Sovereign line a more high-end look and perhaps more legitimacy to have in a higher-end system as it would match more high-end products.
I am sure some like the black, but personally, I would hope for a silver version to match future SSP and amp. Am sure more would feel the same.
Any thoughts--do you think Sovereign will go silver?

My entire rack is (still) 100% black. Black goes really nice with the cherry-wood A/V rack. Silver just doesn't have the nice juxtaposition with cherry as black. Also, mixing and matching black and silver is nasty. I wish they'd decide to evolve component colors that are "visually compatible" with legacy components. :)

So, count me in as an old-timer who likes black components.

when everything is silver, then black will become chic again. if i remember correctly, my dad's first stero was silver.

Yup, my first stereo was silver, too. And I'm not that old!!

OK, I bought the VR-5900 and am pretty happy with it. My main complaint is the remote is two-way IR only. It is not two way RF. DOH!

Since I have all AV equipment in my basement, it makes it difficult to have a two way conversation with it. I can't find the IR-9991 anywhere.

Does anyone know of a compatible two way IR repeater system for the VR-5900? Does the Entre give me on-screen control of all VR-5900 features? I read the PDF manual but it didn't go into much detail.

Thanks in advance,

I don't even know if any kenwood receiver supports OSD configuration. Most of these OSD receivers require that you hook up them via rca or svideo which I have never done with my receiver.

<<Does anyone know of a compatible two way IR repeater system for the VR-5900? >>

Audioplex K2 system. 2 way IR. 40kHz one way, 455 kHz back. Needs 16 gauge 4 conductor cable. Works on sony 2-way IR cd players, too. I'm an audioplex and sovereign dealer and it works.

Randy

Randy, as a Sovereign dealer, has anyone from Kenwood said anything to you about the soon to arrive 5900m up-grades?

Over the past month, I've read most of the posts in this forum. Based on what I've learned from all of you and the further hands on investigation I've done, I've decided the Entre DVD Changer combonation is right for me (even knowing all the faults and problems that various people have had). I'm in the process of building a new home and will be including an A/V room and multi-room a/v. I've decided to use the Entre & Changer to drive my DVD system but am not sure if it will meet my music needs. I'll have a/v in three rooms and multi-room sound through out the house. Ideally I'd want to be able to watch a DVD in one room & listen to an MP-3 or internet radio in another. I don't like the axcess units, because I don't want to see any A/V equipment. Is there a creative way to use the Entre GUI to access music in a seperate Zone while a DVD is being played? Are there any plans to make a multiple zone Entre similar to the Marantz product? Has anyone used a Turtlebeach Audiotron with the Entre (can the Audiotron see the Entre on a network)?

Thanks in advance for your guidance.:)

FEW

I noticed yesterday if I hit guide while I am in the guide, the last movie that played starts.

Is this what everyone experiences? Just want to make sure nothing is wrong with my unit.

Getting really used to this. All the hardwork is behind me and the entre is integrated into my universal remote.

Now to start burning music into the entre.

Bring on the updates!!!!!!!

Just re-reading some recent posts on what people will do "when" they send their changers in for the upgrade.

Some reorganization may be called for. Keep in mind that, even though the Entre will control three changers (that's two expressions of faith in one post), it will still be restricted to a 400 disc menu per changer.

So if you've got half your James Bond movies in one changer and half in another, you may want to take the opportunity to do some reorganization.

If the upgrades do in fact come through, my plan is to scrap my three Sony 200 disc CD changers, and make my 5900 a purely music unit (DVD-A and CD). I will likely have to use two changers for that, but it will be quite a while before I need 400 slots just for DVD-A discs, which is the only real difference for me between the 5050 and the 5900. Currently, I'm using the s-link system to control CD changers with a program called CDJ on my computer, but I'd to do it all from the Entre menu.

If we get those upgrades . . ..

Nick :cool:

what you mean only 400 per menu?

I thought it would aggregate across the 3 changers into one unified display. that was one of the drawbacks of the native 5900 gui. it would not give you that.

how do you play all your mp3s one after the other? if i select the first mp3 on the list under all, it only plays that one and stops.

do i have to build a playlist that includes all the mp3s?

Originally posted by slocko
what you mean only 400 per menu?

I thought it would aggregate across the 3 changers into one unified display. that was one of the drawbacks of the native 5900 gui. it would not give you that.

I don't think that's the way it will work. I could be wrong, but I thought that was why we saw designations on the Entre setup for "changer number."

The units daisy chain with designations of "main," "sub1," and "sub2." When you are in one menu you do not see the other. Since the Entre was supposed to work with this scheme from the inception, I don't see why it would change now.

Perhaps David could clarify this, but I not believe you're going to get any one Entre menu with more than 400 listings.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
I don't think that's the way it will work. I could be wrong, but I thought that was why we saw designations on the Entre setup for "changer number."

The units daisy chain with designations of "main," "sub1," and "sub2." When you are in one menu you do not see the other. Since the Entre was supposed to work with this scheme from the inception, I don't see why it would change now.

Perhaps David could clarify this, but I not believe you're going to get any one Entre menu with more than 400 listings.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I'm fairly certain that it'll bridge the media for us across the changers. The main, sub1, sub2 designations are for ID purposes -- for Entre administration (ie., this changer is off, this changer needs a look-up).

There's no UI indication that the disc selection process includes selecting an actual changer.

I'm not sure that just because changers that are daisy chained without an Entre display their guides individually will mean that the Entre will do the same after the upgrade. I think all connected changers will be combined into the one guide we already see. When scrolling through my guide, there is info at the top that says what changer and slot that disc is in. I'm willing to bet that we will still have one guide that list 404, 807, or 1,210 discs alphabetically depending on how many changers are connected and how many discs are loaded. The above numbers assume each changer is full (403 discs) plus a cd in the Entre itself. I hope this will be how it works as I can't really see any reason why it shouldn't. Hopefully we will find out for ourselves soon enough. :)

Bob

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Nick,

I'm fairly certain that it'll bridge the media for us across the changers. The main, sub1, sub2 designations are for ID purposes -- for Entre administration (ie., this changer is off, this changer needs a look-up).

There's no UI indication that the disc selection process includes selecting an actual changer.

. . . don't know. Perhaps I just made an assumption based on how the OSD looks when you're not using the Entre and you're daisy-chaining two players.

In the case of a daisy chain, when you go to the "library" of the changer, you have your list of 1 to 400 discs. If, however, you want to switch to the sub1 or sub2 menu (the connected changers), you get a completely different menu (for that changer). In other words it starts all over with a new menu.

I guess, now that I think of it, what you're saying makes sense . . . that should be the first thing that makes us suspicious. ;)

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
I'm fairly certain that it'll bridge the media for us across the changers. The main, sub1, sub2 designations are for ID purposes -- for Entre administration (ie., this changer is off, this changer needs a look-up).

There's no UI indication that the disc selection process includes selecting an actual changer.

Jon,

You said everything I wanted to say, and more, with much fewer words. I wish I could express my thoughts that way. lol

Bob

On the upgrade issue . . . I recently contacted Kenwood Customer Support to make sure that all of my Sovereign equipment (two Entre units, one DV-5900, two DV-5050 units) had been appropriately "registered" as my online profile on the Kenwood website had two of the registrations as "pending" (which amounted to the Kenwood "points" program--now since abandoned).

I spoke with a person responsible for registering units, though I don't want to mention names. I specifically pointed out that I wanted to make sure that my products would be "in line" for any upcoming upgrades. I was sent an email indicating that they were, and that:

"It should be in the next few months."

There, I said it. However, I've been around the block enough times to put stock in it. When the upgrades happen, I will need yet another changer to make the complete switch to put all cds in them. I won't buy another changer until then.

Nick :cool:

Slocko,

If you want to play multiple MP3's, you have to either do random play or set up a play list. For random play, choose the MP3 you want to play. Then choose options and tell it to either random play the album or the entire group.

Originally posted by Nick Satullo

"It should be in the next few months."

There, I said it. However, I've been around the block enough times to put stock in it. When the upgrades happen, I will need yet another changer to make the complete switch to put all cds in them. I won't buy another changer until then.

Nick :cool: [/B]

Oh crap. You know, months ago, when David attested to actually seeing it all in action, it lead one to believe that all that there was left to do was unit-testing. How can it be almost May and we haven't even heard a word from Kenwood on the status? You'd think they'd at least provide us with an update.

David, isn't our buddy from Kenwood back from Japan yet? Shouldn't he be telling us something through you by now? Even if he tells us it's another month... that's better than the current communication void.

(for Bob: always glad to be grammatically expeditious! :))

that is what i figured. i was just surprised you couldn't play your entire collection either in linear fashion or randomly.

no big deal. i don't think in a real world scenario anyone will ever want to do this.

i just wanted to listen to all the mp3s the entre came with to see which ones i would delete. i created a playlist, no bid deal.

"in a few months???"

that doesn't sound right. Mr Integration reported that they were in the process of swapping out the ones in stock. that can't take that long.

enjoying the entre more and more. i can't believe i had this thing for months and never really gave it a real workout. i guess i was just lazy to reprogram the remote :)


Originally posted by DerekFSU
Slocko,

If you want to play multiple MP3's, you have to either do random play or set up a play list. For random play, choose the MP3 you want to play. Then choose options and tell it to either random play the album or the entire group.

Slocko,

You can play the entire MP3 collection in random play. Instead of choosing a genre, simply choose it under the main MP3 title right next to ALL and CD's.

I have purchased the 5900. I will be using it for DVD-Video only. I have a Escient Fireball that does all of my CDs and MP3s. I have had if for over a year now and am very familiar with the software. Since the software is the basically the same I would have to think that you would have a list of all Discs in all players on the Entre. Not split up per player. The Fireball also uses the IDs for each changer so it can tell if there is an issue with that particular changer. Also in the software it will show you what changer and which slot in that changer the disc is in. When removing discs you need to close the door on the changer before inserting a new or different disc into that slot so that it knows that that particular disc is no longer there. Otherwise it sees there is a disc and does not read what is really there just assumes that it is the same disc. I did not buy the entre but have done research on it. But from what I can tell it is all the same OpenGlobe software just a different color scheme. Right now I am debating whether I should get the entre or wait until Escient puts out their DVD version. Since either way I will be buying a new component. But the fact that Kenwood doesn't have the multi player function working yet with the entre is disheartening. I thought I would share one other thing with you about identifying CDs(and I believe it would work with the DVD). I only have 1 disk out of approx. 1000 that is unknown. If you have issues with it not identifying a disc try going to Openglobe on your unit and do a search for the title or artist the disc should be. If you find the disc in there then go back and change the Title and the artist in the Edit Disc screen to exactly match what is in the OpenGlobe services. Since the CDDB can be entered by anyone sometimes they will not have the exact title or will misspell and artists name and you will not get the cover art. Another thing is if it is a soundtrack. Sometimes the database uses Various Artists or Soundtrack, or Original Cast Recording. You will need to type that into the Edit Disc screen however OpenGlobe has it. It takes awhile depending on how many discs initially the unit didn't read. I haven't read all of the post in this forum just most of them at the beginning and the last 5 or so pages here at the end, so I apologize if I have repeated anything previously mentioned. I just thought that this information might help shed a little light on some of the recent posts.

Tam

FEW,

I do not know all the answers to your questions but I don't think you can use the Kenwood system to watch a DVD in one room while listening to an MP3 in the other. I use the second zone on my Kenwood 5900 for radio tuner exclusively to the other rooms. With my system, if I am listening to MP3's and switch to Internet Radio, DVD's, or anything else on the Entre, the MP3 stops. Further, if I am listening to an MP3 and I input switch to something totally different, like Directv, the sound kicks back to the MP3 when it changes to the next track. I have to stop the MP3 before switching inputs to prevent this from happening. I do not have any experience with the Access units, I am using Russound. This description of mine may only prove that I have it set up completely wrong, who knows.

everyone probably has done this already, but i am going to throw it out there in case anyone hasn't thought of it.

if you rename a genre with a number - in front, it would arrange it numerically. this takes precedence over the alphabet. so you can rename all your categories with numbers in front so they appear in the order you like.

i put animated as number one and family as number two, since those are the ones my wife uses the most.

Here is an interesting story....!!!

http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=117888&display=breakingNews

Originally posted by Mr. Integration
Here is an interesting story....!!!

http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=117888&display=breakingNews

Quite interesting indeed! As an owner of an Entre and ReplayTV... I feel like there are now two new brothers in my A/V rack.

Sure, today, they don't share the same DNA... but they will if D&M does it right! Speaking of D&M, do they have any American-based operations? Sounds like these guys are pursuing a vision that I'd like to be apart of....

I was thinking along the lines that we might see some new products that use Openglobe.....Finally

Originally posted by Mr. Integration
Here is an interesting story....!!!

http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=117888&display=breakingNews

Interesting, indeed. First Escient and OpenGlobe "merge," and now there's an asset purchase of whatever it was that got merged.

It's actually encouraging that someone still sees profit in this (whoever D&M Holdings is). Perhaps it means that, at some point, after the OpenGlobe service is entrenched enough in our homes, we'll get a bill for it. I'd almost feel better about it, because that means it'll stay around.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Mr. Integration
I was thinking along the lines that we might see some new products that use Openglobe.....Finally

OIC.

Well, it's hard to predict how D&M will handle/improve/open-up/close-up Openglobe services. No one really knows what D&M is all about, their philosophies, vision, etc. That said, it sure looks like they're making a play for 'intelligent' A/V devices... which is cool by me.

It'd be great to have a consistent UI for all audio and video sources: DVD, CD, MP3, TV, and more.

Bring it on, D&M.

Doesn't D&M stand for Denon and Marantz?

--
Umberto

Originally posted by Turin2006
Doesn't D&M stand for Denon and Marantz?

--
Umberto

Pretty much. Denon and Marantz merged a year or so ago, and formed the D&M Holding Company. Both Denon and Marantz still operate as seperate business units, but they do plan on sharing technology, engineering, and production resources where it makes sense.

At the time of the merger, there was no word on D&M being anything more than a standard merger. Now we're learning that there are some real visionaries hiding behind the opaque cape that is D&M. Pretty interesting.

Nick,

You mentioned in one of your earlier posts that you have 2 Entres. I apologize if you've explained this in the past and this is general knowledge to others on the board, but I am curious about how you have these set-up. As I mentioned in a post on Friday, I am in the process of building a system & my major dilemma is how to use the Entre in 2 zones (so my wife can have a Sex and The City DVD marathon session, while I zone out to Jazz in another room). I suppose using 2 Entre's is a potential solution? Can the Entres communicate with each other over the network (e.g. can Entre2 play music stored on Entre1's HD). Can the Entres HDs easily be duplicated?

I'd be grateful for your thoughts (our anyone else's that has experience with 2 Entres),

FEW

I would be worried about Open Globe being bought. Hopefully when Kenwood signed contracts with open globe, they had a "competitor buy out" clause that protects them from being shut out. Why would Denon keep supporting Kenwood as a competitor?

This probably spells the end of Kenwood entre' in another aspect. No new product models submitted by kenwood would be approved for use on the openglobe system. Again, there is no point in Denon Holding Corp supporting a competitor....(Perhaps IF AND ONLY IF there's some HUGE licensing fees involved.)

Now back to our regular ranting: *Sings*
Oh where oh where have my upgrades gone? Oh where oh where can they be? Oh where oh where have my upgrades gone? Won't you please bring them back to me?

Sling hash, Sling Hash
Sling some hash at Kenwood for me FOR ME!
Sling hash, sling hash,
oh sling some hash at Kenwood for me.

T -3 Days and laughing.

DigitalG,

You make some excellent points. D&M is a full competitor to Kenwood, esp. at the Sovereign level. Ouch. And, who knows, maybe this purchase is what put the breaks on the Entre/5900M upgrade?

I would think that there would be some licensing issues that stops D&M from cutting Kenwood off within months of acquisition. Esp. since a sizable part of Escient's business was integration with other 'partners' (RCA, Kenwood, etc.). However, the long-term does seem sketchy.

That said, I'd retire my Entre in a year or so if D&M brought out the ultimate A/V machine: Entre+ReplayTV+Fireball... all under one roof, 1 hard drive, and consistent interface to everything.

Picture it:

Want to watch a video? Press the "Video" button and select from a menu full of DVDs, VCDs, SVCDs, and TV shows (recorded on the hard drive previously a la ReplayTV technology).

Want to listen to music? Press the "Music" button and select from a menu full of DVD-Audios, SACDs, CDs, IRadio stations, SatRadio stations, and MP3s (recorded on the hard drive previously a la Entre technology).

Want to look at your digital photos? Press the "Photos" button and select from photo albums you've put together (using ReplayTV technology).

Want to watch or listen to something that your buddy has, but you forgot to record or just don't have? Press the "Request" button and have your buddy zap you the TV show, MP3 file, or photograph that you want (again, using ReplayTV technology).

All in the same interface... all searchable and categorized across the media types.

Sound interesting?

Jon,

I definitely think your vision of the ultimate AV machine is what everyone wants and that there would be a great demand for it, even if it is expensive. I think the Kenwood Sovereign System has opened the door for this type of product, I just hope that it doesn't take 10 years for someone to finally get it right.

It will be interesting to see if Kenwood drops the Sovereign line or if they can include all the things mentioned above in their new line-up.

This may be off the topic of this thread, but I would also add the following "wishes" of the next Sovereign system or whatever product D&M can put together with the new resources they aquired:

- Huge hard-drive and/or multiple hard-drives with option to upgrade
(Need lots of space not only for MP3's, but preferably to store regular music as uncompressed .WAV files on hard drive, also lots of space for recorded TV shows, including HDTV)

-DVD changers with true daisy chain capability (ie. simple menu system for all connected changers). Changers would need to play all formats including DVD-Audio and SACD.

- Include regular AM/FM radio (since this is very simple and so you don't have to have the same brand receiver to utilize the function as you do now with the Entre)

-Include HDTV recording option. This is probably the hardest feat to accomplish, but it is the wave of the future and it is only a natural extension to the Replay technology. This has to be a part of the ultimate AV machine as anything that could offer HDTV and digital timeshifting would sell based on this alone (and the music, movie, and photo management would be a bonus). Not sure if this could be done with internal SAT & OTA HDTV tuners or if it would be easier to have a Firewire connection from another set-top box.

- Include a multiformat CD/DVD burner. The Entra already has a CD-burner, so why not include a DVD-R, DVD-RW, DVD+R, DVD+RW. That way you could archive TV shows to relieve the burden of storing so much info on the hard-drive

-Include a universal DVD/DVD-A/SACD player in the unit. That way, you could enjoy full compatability with all existing formats and add a changer(s) later.

Of course, to really be successful it will have to do all these things smoothly and simply. But when someone perfects this, it will sell and will probably eventually be as commonplace as a progressive scan DVD player and DD/DTS receiver.

Just my thoughts.

I was wondering if any progress has been made in supporting the Kenwood 400 DVD changer with DVD Lobby Pro 2.0. I am definitely just waiting for this feature to make my purchase.

I remember Mario had started on a crude program that did the basic startup routines of the changer but I don't see it on the site anymore.

Any help would be appreciated. Basically all I need is for the program to change to the correct dvd slot and start playing it. I can do the rest with my remote.


Thanx

Originally posted by FEW
Nick,

You mentioned in one of your earlier posts that you have 2 Entres. I apologize if you've explained this in the past and this is general knowledge to others on the board, but I am curious about how you have these set-up. As I mentioned in a post on Friday, I am in the process of building a system & my major dilemma is how to use the Entre in 2 zones (so my wife can have a Sex and The City DVD marathon session, while I zone out to Jazz in another room). I suppose using 2 Entre's is a potential solution? Can the Entres communicate with each other over the network (e.g. can Entre2 play music stored on Entre1's HD). Can the Entres HDs easily be duplicated?

I'd be grateful for your thoughts (our anyone else's that has experience with 2 Entres),

FEW

Unfortunately, my use of two Entres is nothing so sophisticated. They are literally inches apart, in separate cabinets. Luckily, my RC9200 remote control can alternate between RF and IR codes, so I can control each without "alerting" the other.

My only purpose in getting a second Entre was because I'd long ago reached the point of a second changer. Since the second changer was the one that was getting "added to" more frequently, it was getting the most play, and I got tired of waiting for Kenwood to "upgrade" their changers. I bought the second one to get the UI and the control factor over unit 2.

David Bott would be the best person to talk to about the networked use of Entre. I am not sure you can do what you're proposing, though the Axcess units might be a good fit for you. David "showed" me his Entre setup once (over the internet) and I'm convinced that he knows more about it than most of the people from Kenwood.

Nick :cool:

he asked for volunteers here but I don't think there were any takers. You should PM him. He was really interested in integrating with the kenwood player.

i believe it is already supported via the use of slinke, but he was aiming to make it more seemless.

i think everyone else gave up on controlling the units via serial control.


Originally posted by mostwantd1
I was wondering if any progress has been made in supporting the Kenwood 400 DVD changer with DVD Lobby Pro 2.0. I am definitely just waiting for this feature to make my purchase.

I remember Mario had started on a crude program that did the basic startup routines of the changer but I don't see it on the site anymore.

Any help would be appreciated. Basically all I need is for the program to change to the correct dvd slot and start playing it. I can do the rest with my remote.


Thanx

I've given up on the Entre' fixes, but I haven't given totally up on my own fix.

I'm 75% there to controlling the Kenwood DV-5900M through RS-232. (Basic functions only like "disc select", "play" and "stop".) I'm implementing it in a linkable MFC shared DLL. I've got three other RS232 multimedia projects going on at the same time...so it may be a while. Source code will be available when my work and girlfriend let me. :-)

Do a search for Juken on SourceForge. DeadSock gave me a good head start!

~D

I thought serial control was not very reliable. Also, I thought you guys ran into the same problem that the entre has with controlling more than one unit. The units themselves don't respond to the sub commands that denote the number of the player in the daisy chain.

But by all means, I am glad someone is continuing the effort. If Microsoft continues improving the Media PC, we might all ultimately end up with PCs driving our GUI.

Originally posted by DigitalGriffin
I've given up on the Entre' fixes, but I haven't given totally up on my own fix.

I'm 75% there to controlling the Kenwood DV-5900M through RS-232. (Basic functions only like "disc select", "play" and "stop".) I'm implementing it in a linkable MFC shared DLL. I've got three other RS232 multimedia projects going on at the same time...so it may be a while. Source code will be available when my work and girlfriend let me. :-)

Do a search for Juken on SourceForge. DeadSock gave me a good head start!

~D

Nick Satullo wrote:
For What It's Worth . . .
On the upgrade issue . . . I recently contacted Kenwood Customer Support to make sure that all of my Sovereign equipment (two Entre units, one DV-5900, two DV-5050 units) had been appropriately "registered" as my online profile on the Kenwood website had two of the registrations as "pending" (which amounted to the Kenwood "points" program--now since abandoned).

I spoke with a person responsible for registering units, though I don't want to mention names. I specifically pointed out that I wanted to make sure that my products would be "in line" for any upcoming upgrades. I was sent an email indicating that they were, and that:

"It should be in the next few months."


Where does one go to register one's equipment? Is this the same equipment registration that comes with the unit - the same one few people bother to mail ? I in particular.

Thank you.

Originally posted by slocko
I thought serial control was not very reliable. Also, I thought you guys ran into the same problem that the entre has with controlling more than one unit. The units themselves don't respond to the sub commands that denote the number of the player in the daisy chain.


I am betting that the fix Kenwood will be providing will indeed use the serial ports. My guess is that the software update to the Entre will allow it to see and control the added "sub" changers and that the changers themselves will have an added serial port on the back so that we will just daisy chain a serial cable from one changer to the next and on to the Entre. The upgrade might also involve the use of the Kenwood Control Cables, but probably not. I wish David was allowed to tell us how things were connected when he saw the working beta in person.

Patiently waiting to hear something from KW,

Bob

You can't multiplex serial signals on top of one another. To "chain" the RS-232, the incoming signal cable from the slave changer would have to be decoded, recoded, and added to the output of the master changer.

My solution doesn't use the Entre'. To control multiple changers, you just hook up multiple serial cables to the computer.

I'll disclose full details in about a month if time allows.

~D

Originally posted by Bob_422
I am betting that the fix Kenwood will be providing will indeed use the serial ports. My guess is that the software update to the Entre will allow it to see and control the added "sub" changers and that the changers themselves will have an added serial port on the back so that we will just daisy chain a serial cable from one changer to the next and on to the Entre. The upgrade might also involve the use of the Kenwood Control Cables, but probably not. I wish David was allowed to tell us how things were connected when he saw the working beta in person.

Patiently waiting to hear something from KW,

Bob

Sorry about the previous. Fat fingered the Enter key at the wrong time.

Just wondering if anyone would like to vent about who has had an Entre and non-working multiple changers the longest. Since November 2001, I have had a 5900 connected and two 5050's sitting empty and unused. I use the 5900 exclusively for DVD's and my 750 plus CD collection is still on the shelf. I patiently await. Please Kenwood, have some heart.

Originally posted by DigitalGriffin
You can't multiplex serial signals on top of one another. To "chain" the RS-232, the incoming signal cable from the slave changer would have to be decoded, recoded, and added to the output of the master changer. This is almost certainly the way that it would have to work. If I were designing it, I'd give all changers two serial ports, one In and the other Out. One changer would be connected to the Entre. The Entre would send all signals to In port of unit 1. If unit 1 detected signals for itself, it would process them. If it didn't, it would pass them to unit 2, which, if they were unit 2 signals it would process them and if not pass them along to unit 3. Thus all units except the last one would be both master and slave.

But I think that it wouldn't have to work that way. Instead, the serial connection could be configured to go from unit to unit 2 to unit 3 (I think that you'd have to use a nul modem cable to connect one unit to another) and then send a single signal (not multiplexed) that would be seen by all three units. The Entre could put a header on this signal that would be changer specific and would be ignored by all changers except the one it was meant for.

I don't see why this wouldn't work.

Originally posted by cai
Nick Satullo wrote:



Where does one go to register one's equipment? Is this the same equipment registration that comes with the unit - the same one few people bother to mail ? I in particular.

Thank you.

Here http://www.kenwoodusa.com/register/siteproduct1.jsp?sessionCookieSaved=true

You'll need to setup a username and an "audiofile." I recall receiving emails when Axcess was released, and this is the process by which they knew to alert me.

Nick :cool:

how did this fiasco ever occur? was multi-changer control put aside for a new generation of the changers, but someone forgot to yank the literature and update the website and their support staff?

the multi-changer support had to be part of the design of the entre since it ids discs by changer number. the only logical conclusion was that a decision was made to make it part of the next generation changer/entre combo in order to meet some deadline to market. but somehow engineering never let the business side know.

any other speculation to understand how this could have occurred? just curious how a big company can make such a colossal blunder.

Dunno why they just dont rip out the serial ports and put in ethernet. Life would be so much simpler.

Originally posted by rbienstock

But I think that it wouldn't have to work that way. Instead, the serial connection could be configured to go from unit to unit 2 to unit 3 (I think that you'd have to use a nul modem cable to connect one unit to another) and then send a single signal (not multiplexed) that would be seen by all three units. The Entre could put a header on this signal that would be changer specific and would be ignored by all changers except the one it was meant for.

I don't see why this wouldn't work.

Unfortunately from a RS232 standpoint this wouldn't work either. There are signal pins RTS/CTS/DSR/TX/RX (Ready to send, clear to send, and data set ready, transmitting, receiving) that are set during communication. They can only represent one ready state (either TRUE or FALSE) and not which changer is ready, or communicating. The changers also reply to commands sent to them. They also send out changer status information randomly. Long story short, It would make things very difficult from the hardware standpoint.

Eithernet has built in collision detection and correction that overcomes these problems.

a wireless ethernet built in adapter would be nice.

but Nick and David have seen an entre controlling more than one changer and they did announce a hardware fix.

any ideas how kenwood overcame the serial limitation?

maybe the fix is an adapter that splits the entre's dvd rs232 port into 3? would that work?

Originally posted by DigitalGriffin
Unfortunately from a RS232 standpoint this wouldn't work either. There are signal pins RTS/CTS/DSR/TX/RX (Ready to send, clear to send, and data set ready, transmitting, receiving) that are set during communication. They can only represent one ready state (either TRUE or FALSE) and not which changer is ready, or communicating. The changers also reply to commands sent to them. They also send out changer status information randomly. Long story short, It would make things very difficult from the hardware standpoint.

Eithernet has built in collision detection and correction that overcomes these problems.

Originally posted by rbienstock
This is almost certainly the way that it would have to work. If I were designing it, I'd give all changers two serial ports, one In and the other Out. One changer would be connected to the Entre. The Entre would send all signals to In port of unit 1. If unit 1 detected signals for itself, it would process them. If it didn't, it would pass them to unit 2, which, if they were unit 2 signals it would process them and if not pass them along to unit 3. Thus all units except the last one would be both master and slave.

But I think that it wouldn't have to work that way. Instead, the serial connection could be configured to go from unit to unit 2 to unit 3 (I think that you'd have to use a nul modem cable to connect one unit to another) and then send a single signal (not multiplexed) that would be seen by all three units. The Entre could put a header on this signal that would be changer specific and would be ignored by all changers except the one it was meant for.

I don't see why this wouldn't work.

If I were designing it... I would build a black box with 5 serial ports. One connects to the Entre the other four to DVD changers. The black box would use the existing serial protocol (which I understand already has a changer address) to route the commands between the Entre and the appropriate DVD changer. No need to send DVD changers in to be upgraded, just send everyone who asks for it a black box.

Of course this is just a hack for a poorly designed version 1... the next version would use ethernet.

that is what i was envisioning, but since i lacked the technical speak, you stated it much better.

this sounds like a cheap cost effective solution and would have been ready months ago.

but how would the entre handle 3 changers reporting in at once? or do they only report once a command is set?

Originally posted by slocko
that is what i was envisioning, but since i lacked the technical speak, you stated it much better.

this sounds like a cheap cost effective solution and would have been ready months ago.

but how would the entre handle 3 changers reporting in at once? or do they only report once a command is set?

One word "buffers".

Communication between the Entre and any of the changers would only be in complete packet form. The black box would buffer the communication until a complete packet has been received and would forward the entire packet all at once.

any reason this box can't be built by somebody with an electronics background without involving kenwood?

Well I could build it...problem is the entre' firmware would have to support it....and that's asking a lot out of Kenwood.

I thought the group would find this information helpful. As I am looking to buy another 5900 or 5050, I asked Kenwood how I could tell if a new unit had the new firmware/modifications.

Reply was "New DV-5900's
will not have the new software and will require the update also."

I am not sure on 5050's as they were not specifically addressed.

I do not use an Entre so I am interested in the faster load times, no 4 second layer change etc...

BJBBJB

well my movies are accumulating past the 400 mark. if this upgrade doesn't come soon, i might be tempted to join Nick in the 2 entre club :)

it's either buy another entre or lasik surgery for my eyes. hmmmmm what a difficult choice :)

There is a software update right now.....I will report on what is did.....

Originally posted by Mr. Integration
There is a software update right now.....I will report on what is did.....

Mr. I . . .

You must now 'fess up. ;)

I suspect you really do know something.

Nick :cool:

I ran the "update software" on my Entre I now have software version KMC-1.1.0.10

but no real changes

My wife got me the Entre for my birthday (yes, she truly loves me) and I got it connected but it won't register. I entered my ISP info, it dials, connects, contacts the OpenGlobe server then sits on "Registering..." for about 10 minutes and dies with an ever so informing message of "Error."

Thanks in advance...

Originally posted by Mr. Integration
I ran the "update software" on my Entre I now have software version KMC-1.1.0.10

but no real changes

I just successfully upgraded to "Kenwood Media Center" (?) KMC-1.1.0.10

I don't know about you, but I see an immediate difference! My music sounds better, my movies look better, the CarTalk guys this morning are funnier, and in the 10 minutes since I got the new software, the Entre hasn't crashed even once!

Congrats Kenwood. Nice job!

In all seriousness, I do wonder if the KMC addition is the multi-changer update? And in real all seriousness, how about release notes, Kenwood?

I wonder how much worse it can get, due to our reliance on OpenGlobe what’s next?

Escient purchased by D&M

http://www.escient.com/releases/escient_apr2403.htm

Wayne

Originally posted by Wayne Zworld
I wonder how much worse it can get, due to our reliance on OpenGlobe what’s next?

Escient purchased by D&M

http://www.escient.com/releases/escient_apr2403.htm

Wayne

I don't know why it follows logically that new ownership means a problem. Bankruptcy would mean a problem, but that's not what I'm reading.

We need to keep in mind that, regardless of who owns OpenGlobe, it really doesn't change our rights as Kenwood owners, because none of us bought a thing from anyone but Kenwood. In other words, if OpenGlobe decided to change its way of doing business and cut off our access, our recourse would only be against Kenwood. Kenwood, on the other hand, might be able to turn to OpenGlobe/Escient for some means of redress.

Now that OpenGlobe/Escient's assets have changed hands, that basic proposition remains the same--we still have no rights vis-a-vis the OpenGlobe service, whoever owns it, other than to insist to Kenwood that it should be part of our package as we paid them for.

I have always believed that, one day, I would be mailing a check to someone for the service and information I receive from OpenGlobe. The asset sale seems to me to only change the likely recipient of that check, whenever it starts. Kenwood still has to make good on multiple changer-control from Entre before they lay that one on us.

Nick :cool:

I have been messing around with the PowerTouch remote, trying to come up with menus such that our dog-sitters will be able to use the system while we are gone (last time they brought in a rental DVD, got it in the player but were unable to get past the splash screen from the last CD I had played). While cogitating over the Entre commands, I came up with a suggestion for the Kenwood folks:

Set the software so that pressing the Movie, Music, or Radio button always brings up the appropriate guide. This command should be guide-on only, not a toggle as it is now, and should bring up the guide regardless of whether the Entre is in the same mode as the button pressed (right now if you are in Movie and hit the Movie button, nothing happens).

Change the Guide button to a "Now Playing" button that brings up the splash screen for the selected disc or radio station. Again, this should not be a toggle, just bring up the screen when the button is pushed.

Finally, change pass-through to command the Entre displays off. It's a toggle right now, which makes it nearly impossible to set up an effective macro for a component such as an HDTV or Satellite receiver - sometimes the GUI is on, sometimes it is off, and you can't get a reliable state at powerup.

It seems to me that this would be a much more macro- and user-friendly command set for these buttons. Not that anyone is likely to actually do anything with this since the Entre seems to be dying a slow death - did anyone else notice that Crutchfield has now dropped every Sovereign product other than the DVD players from their catalogs and web site?

Mike

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
I just successfully upgraded to "Kenwood Media Center" (?) KMC-1.1.0.10 <snip> In all seriousness, I do wonder if the KMC addition is the multi-changer update? And in real all seriousness, how about release notes, Kenwood?
Originally posted by David Bott via Brian from KW
The Entre' software will be available in April of 2003 and will be downloaded automatically via the Internet. And in what I believe shows Kenwood's real commitment to not only moving performance and ease of use forward, but also to not leaving our loyal customers behind, a program will be put in place to upgrade both hardware and software for current owner's of Kenwood Sovereign DVD changers.

Must be. Recall the info from Brian.

is using media manager the only way to get cover art for cds? while the entre has succesfully found all of my cds so far, it doesn't seem to find cover art for them. is this normal?

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
I don't know why it follows logically that new ownership means a problem. Bankruptcy would mean a problem, but that's not what I'm reading.

We need to keep in mind that, regardless of who owns OpenGlobe, it really doesn't change our rights as Kenwood owners, because none of us bought a thing from anyone but Kenwood. In other words, if OpenGlobe decided to change its way of doing business and cut off our access, our recourse would only be against Kenwood. Kenwood, on the other hand, might be able to turn to OpenGlobe/Escient for some means of redress.

Now that OpenGlobe/Escient's assets have changed hands, that basic proposition remains the same--we still have no rights vis-a-vis the OpenGlobe service, whoever owns it, other than to insist to Kenwood that it should be part of our package as we paid them for.

I have always believed that, one day, I would be mailing a check to someone for the service and information I receive from OpenGlobe. The asset sale seems to me to only change the likely recipient of that check, whenever it starts. Kenwood still has to make good on multiple changer-control from Entre before they lay that one on us.

Nick :cool:

I am not in total agreement with you here, Nick. OpenGlobe hasn't just changed hands, in my view. They've changed the type of hands.

OpenGlobe was setup initially as an independent service provider to all manufacturers. Then, Escient bought them out, which starting making things a bit creepy, since Escient also had aspirations of being a boutique hardware vendor as well (possible competition to Sovereign line). But it was clear that providing the UI to other 'partners' was a core part of their strategy.

Now with D&M, whose to-date primary products are A/V devices, I think things get even a bit more creepy. Think of it: D&M (Denon & Marantz holding company) now owns the CDDB database, OpenGlobe UI system, all subsystems that connect the two, as well as the entire Escient line-up.

As traditionally an A/V hardware vendor, I think it's almost anti-competitive for D&M to soley own the CDDB database... this database should continue to be made available to all manufacturers. If D&M cuts-off access to -- or charge big fees to access -- CDDB, then all the work done over the past 5 years by tends of thousands of music enthusiasts to create this robust database will have gone to a sole proprietor and future proprietary hardware solutions. This would suck.

I think that while it is Kenwood's partner program "problem," it certainly affects the future of the Sovereign line (how, we do not know yet) -- and as such, it becomes our problem... not just Kenwood's.

And as far as paying OpenGlobe a service fee... again, who's to say that D&M will choose to provide competitors with OpenGlobe's compelling technology and services? Why not close up all future OpenGlobe enhancements to all manu's except D&M. This way, the only future Entre-type products will be a Denon or Marantz.

Since D&M owns the OS now, think of it in terms of Microsoft and Windows: Just like Microsoft doesn't like Apple modify or access Windows, why would D&M allow Kenwood to access OpenGlobe?

Our "rights" as Kenwood customers are only to use the product, service, and database as it stands today. We don't have any "rights" to future enhancements (outside of the multi-changer upgrade, that is!). So, I think talking about our rights is a limited view of our stake in this corporate shell game.

My point here (granted, sprawlingly made) is that D&M's ownership of the OS now puts the future of the Sovereign concept at risk. Sure, we may always enjoy what we have today (bugs and all), but we might not expect any future updates, upgrades, or even future products from Kenwood in this area... because D&M, a tried and true hardware competitor, owns the OS, the Serivce, and the database.

The flip-side of this, of course, is that D&M ends up being mega-cool, and continues providing the OpenGlobe OS and CDDB database to any and all competitors to improve the overall convergence marketplace and to encourage innovation. Doesn't that sound likely? ;)

Originally posted by slocko
is using media manager the only way to get cover art for cds? while the entre has succesfully found all of my cds so far, it doesn't seem to find cover art for them. is this normal?

No. the lookup process on the Entre itself should retrieve the bulk of the CD covers automatically. For cover art retreival, the Media Manager should only be required for the exceptions to this process.

so if a cd is found, it follows that the cover art should be found as well. hmmm. wonder what is going on. i only have ripped about 30 cd so far. let's hope it improves.

can someone verify that cd cover art is still working? i am wondering if maybe the software update broke it. i didn't start ripping cds to the hard drive till yesterday.

i just put in spyro gyra - fast forward and while it finds the cd information, it doesn't find cover art.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
I am not in total agreement with you here, Nick. OpenGlobe hasn't just changed hands, in my view. They've changed the type of hands.

OpenGlobe was setup initially as an independent service provider to all manufacturers. Then, Escient bought them out, which starting making things a bit creepy, since Escient also had aspirations of being a boutique hardware vendor as well (possible competition to Sovereign line). But it was clear that providing the UI to other 'partners' was a core part of their strategy.

Now with D&M, whose to-date primary products are A/V devices, I think things get even a bit more creepy. Think of it: D&M (Denon & Marantz holding company) now owns the CDDB database, OpenGlobe UI system, all subsystems that connect the two, as well as the entire Escient line-up.

As traditionally an A/V hardware vendor, I think it's almost anti-competitive for D&M to soley own the CDDB database... this database should continue to be made available to all manufacturers. If D&M cuts-off access to -- or charge big fees to access -- CDDB, then all the work done over the past 5 years by tends of thousands of music enthusiasts to create this robust database will have gone to a sole proprietor and future proprietary hardware solutions. This would suck.

Someone said that "D&M Holdings" stands for Denon & Marantz. Beyond that, it really is speculation to suggest that we can know the business plans of anyone just based on ownership. Harman International has for years owned Madrigal, Lexicon, Harmon Kardon, JBL, and Infinity, probably others I'm leaving off. Were I to assume that, simply on the basis of common ownership, I could discern the business plan of Harman, it would be a stretch. I think that's even more true of a fledgling "holding company" (a holding company is by definition simply there to "hold" or "own" stock).

I think that while it is Kenwood's partner program "problem," it certainly affects the future of the Sovereign line (how, we do not know yet) -- and as such, it becomes our problem... not just Kenwood's.

We don't know a thing. But we didn't know anything before it was acquired, either. The Sovereign line hardly seems the type of line that a competitor needs to "cut off" to snuff out. The motive for OpenGlobe, D&M, or whoever owns those assets is going to be this: Profit. There's too little that is known about any of this, beyond knowing that "D" stands for "Denon," and "M" stands for "Marantz," to understand what's going to be profitable to the owner of those assets, whatever those assets are.

And as far as paying OpenGlobe a service fee... again, who's to say that D&M will choose to provide competitors with OpenGlobe's compelling technology and services? Why not close up all future OpenGlobe enhancements to all manu's except D&M. This way, the only future Entre-type products will be a Denon or Marantz.

I only meant that, regardless of who owned it, I expected that someone was paying for it. Right now, I get HDNet for "free" as a DirecTV subscriber, and it is the best HD available. One day soon, I expect to get a notice to the effect that a small fee must be added if I want to continue the service. By then, I'll be hooked. I don't expect it was ever any different with OpenGlobe.

Since D&M owns the OS now, think of it in terms of Microsoft and Windows: Just like Microsoft doesn't like Apple modify or access Windows, why would D&M allow Kenwood to access OpenGlobe?

I don't know, because I have no insight into the business plans of D&M--whatever that is--and its reasons for the acquisition. It's not uncommon for corporations to have separate divisions that operate independently of one another, and, for all I know, they will sell to anyone that will buy.

Keep in mind, too, that neither Denon nor Marantz offer any competing products to the Sovereign line--no one really does (which is the biggest problem for us). In fact, I once posted a question to "DenonJeff" (on one of the other AVS Forums) on whether Denon would offer a changer, and he said it was not in their plans, and nothing from their sales force suggested it would be.

Our "rights" as Kenwood customers are only to use the product, service, and database as it stands today. We don't have any "rights" to future enhancements (outside of the multi-changer upgrade, that is!). So, I think talking about our rights is a limited view of our stake in this corporate shell game.

No more limited than it ever was. We bought products from Kenwood. That's the only one, and the only one that ever has been, on the hook for our consumer expectations.

The rug could always be pulled from under OpenGlobe, and our only recourse would ever be against Kenwood. That's just a function of contract law, and general consumer rights laws. We've always been vulnerable to the forces of third parties.

My point here (granted, sprawlingly made) is that D&M's ownership of the OS now puts the future of the Sovereign concept at risk. Sure, we may always enjoy what we have today (bugs and all), but we might not expect any future updates, upgrades, or even future products from Kenwood in this area... because D&M, a tried and true hardware competitor, owns the OS, the Serivce, and the database.

The flip-side of this, of course, is that D&M ends up being mega-cool, and continues providing the OpenGlobe OS and CDDB database to any and all competitors to improve the overall convergence marketplace and to encourage innovation. Doesn't that sound likely? ;)

I guess the reason I'm not pessimistic about this is really for a disheartening reason: I don't think anyone needed to spend a nickel to "kill" the Sovereign line. I think Kenwood is losing money at it, and the only real risk is that it pulls its funding. My point is that competitors don't bother spending money to kill terminally ill patients (sorry, Kenwood, but I have to call them as I see them).

The thing that we tend to forget is just how "tangential" the Sovereign product line is. Most people on AVS forum only have a simplified idea of what a DVD changer is, let alone the issues that are important to Entre/Sovereign owners.

These are not mainstream products. Talk to someone who has to sell these to make money, and you may conclude that no one would spend a dime, or lift a finger, to "sabatoge" the progress of Sovereign (Pssst: Kenwood, and the product line itself, are doing their own good job of that)

Well, if we add our respective opinions together, and then pay for coffee, we can at least drink a cup. ;)

Nick :cool:

I can't believe the media manager software is for CD's only, given that the dv-5900m is a DVD player. I have a few DVD's that are foreign and I would like to add my covers to them but of course can't.

Oh well

well, it has begun founding cd covers. I guess the first cds must have not had cover art.

by the way on a tangental note, i saw in my home theater builder magazine, pc cases that looked like av equipment. really nice. i guess that is always an option in the future.

once you have the entre setup and running, it raises the bar. there is just no going back to an archaic system.

has anyone been able to make a backup of the entre hard-drive on the windows platform? i know hmatos mentioned he was able to take a dump of the drive using a unix utility. the idea of losing all the customization i have made so far is dis-heartening.

f.y.i. if you have windows xp, it by default activates it's firewall feature which blocks it from finding the entre on the network. this should go in the faq that one day will be built :)

Originally posted by Nick Satullo


Someone said that "D&M Holdings" stands for Denon & Marantz. Beyond that, it really is speculation to suggest that we can know the business plans of anyone just based on ownership. Harman International has for years owned Madrigal, Lexicon, Harmon Kardon, JBL, and Infinity, probably others I'm leaving off. Were I to assume that, simply on the basis of common ownership, I could discern the business plan of Harman, it would be a stretch. I think that's even more true of a fledgling "holding company" (a holding company is by definition simply there to "hold" or "own" stock).
[/B]

Yes, D&M Holdings was created when Denon and Marantz merged last year. More information is available here:

http://www.dm-holdings.com/en/message.html

You can see on their site how they do have a strategy (and not a bad one, I might add) that includes implementing common 'middleware' across all of their 'aware' components. This holding company doesn't just hold, it has a vision, and it is working aggressively on executing its vision. Looking at their brief history of acquisitions tells so much of the story.

I only meant that, regardless of who owned it, I expected that someone was paying for it. Right now, I get HDNet for "free" as a DirecTV subscriber, and it is the best HD available. One day soon, I expect to get a notice to the effect that a small fee must be added if I want to continue the service. By then, I'll be hooked. I don't expect it was ever any different with OpenGlobe.

I guess it really depends on what OpenGlobe's business model is/was. They have that on-line storefront... was that their hook to revenue? Or was it the more traditional service fee model (whether Kenwood or you or I paid it doesn't much matter).

I don't know, because I have no insight into the business plans of D&M--whatever that is--and its reasons for the acquisition. It's not uncommon for corporations to have separate divisions that operate independently of one another, and, for all I know, they will sell to anyone that will buy.

I've been following D&M more closely ever since it was rumored that they were going to buy SonicBlue's ReplayTV and Rio products. It doesn't seem like D&M is acting like a traditional holding company. Seems more like a corporation.

Keep in mind, too, that neither Denon nor Marantz offer any competing products to the Sovereign line--no one really does (which is the biggest problem for us). In fact, I once posted a question to "DenonJeff" (on one of the other AVS Forums) on whether Denon would offer a changer, and he said it was not in their plans, and nothing from their sales force suggested it would be.

Interesting. I suspect that is going to change... read the press release on D&M's purchase of Mediabolics middleware software company. Unless, of course, D&M decides that Marantz is their "smart component" business and Denon is their "traditional component" business?

The rug could always be pulled from under OpenGlobe, and our only recourse would ever be against Kenwood. That's just a function of contract law, and general consumer rights laws. We've always been vulnerable to the forces of third parties.

Yup! I just believe now we are more vulnerable. That's all. The only thing more vulnerable than this would be OpenGlobe/Escient going out of business.

I guess the reason I'm not pessimistic about this is really for a disheartening reason: I don't think anyone needed to spend a nickel to "kill" the Sovereign line. I think Kenwood is losing money at it, and the only real risk is that it pulls its funding. My point is that competitors don't bother spending money to kill terminally ill patients (sorry, Kenwood, but I have to call them as I see them).

The thing that we tend to forget is just how "tangential" the Sovereign product line is. Most people on AVS forum only have a simplified idea of what a DVD changer is, let alone the issues that are important to Entre/Sovereign owners.

I don't forget this at all. But apparently, the folks at D&M take this stuff pretty seriously... what with the Escient and Mediabolics and ReplayTV asset purchases. It'd be hard to believe that they'd spend that much money on their own tangential pet projects. Sounds more core business to me, the way I read the press releases.

These are not mainstream products. Talk to someone who has to sell these to make money, and you may conclude that no one would spend a dime, or lift a finger, to "sabatoge" the progress of Sovereign (Pssst: Kenwood, and the product line itself, are doing their own good job of that)

Well, D&M spent many a dime acquiring the technology to do something with this as-yet-not mainstream technology. Maybe it'll take someone like D&M to actually turn this technology into mainstream product. Only time will tell.

Well, if we add our respective opinions together, and then pay for coffee, we can at least drink a cup. ;)

I wish I knew what this meant! :confused:

Nick brings up a good point. Would I pay a monthly fee just so my a/v equipment could look up title information about my media like dvds/cds?

I honestly don't know the answer to that. As much as I like the idea of having satellite radio in my car, I don't see myself paying 10-15 a month for it.

Same goes for Open Globe. A flat one time fee, yes. Monthly fee maybe not.

Originally posted by slocko
Nick brings up a good point. Would I pay a monthly fee just so my a/v equipment could look up title information about my media like dvds/cds?

I honestly don't know the answer to that. As much as I like the idea of having satellite radio in my car, I don't see myself paying 10-15 a month for it.

Same goes for Open Globe. A flat one time fee, yes. Monthly fee maybe not.

And you bring up a good point, too, Slocko... using CDDB/OpenGlobe services is really different than, say, using a program guide to use TiVo or using XM to listen to music on the radio.

The Entre uses CDDB on an as-needed basis. I'm not sure the monthly subscription model makes sense for this type of usage. I agree, a one-time fee of $100? Sure. Monthly at $10? Probably not after I initially set everything up!

Now, maybe the micro-payment thing would work? Want to look-up a CD, DVD or MP3? OK, $.50 gets automatically charged to your credit card, which is already on-file.

I don't think I'd like that too much either, btw.

So, other than the one-time setup fee, I'm not sure what other charge-for model would work. This is definitely different than Mark Cuban's HDTV network or XM's 24/7 radio service. This is database access, it does not an entertainment stream, and it is not required 80-90% of the time.

Thoughts from any marketeers out there?

Regarding the D&M/Openglobe issue, take a look at the new Apple music service. Put direct download sales of this type into the Openglobe system, then merge that with ethernet/broadband enabled Replay units and receivers/media servers with embedded hard drives. Now you have a product that customers want because of its utility, that provides an ongoing revenue stream from subscription to the replay guide as well as revenue from advertising and music sales from the Openglobe site.

Openglobe also becomes a long-term money-maker if you charge a monthly fee - think about GM's On-star. This service is now making a profit since GM has been able to market it out to Audi and others. In the same way, D&M can market Openglobe to other component makers (such as Kenwood), then take a cut from the monthly fee.

Mike

Originally posted by JonDeutsch


Well, if we add our respective opinions together, and then pay for coffee, we can at least drink a cup.


I wish I knew what this meant! :confused:

Only that my opinion on what D&M will do will, plus a dollar (used to be a dime, then a quarter . . .) will get me a cup of coffee.

Nick :cool:

For DVD info, there's always DVD Profiler. I happen to believe that it is much better than openglobe, as far as accuracy. Of course I am still waiting for 5900m upgrade. Guess Kenwood (through its "non-official" releases) really meant April 2004. :)

Originally posted by zinja
For DVD info, there's always DVD Profiler. I happen to believe that it is much better than openglobe, as far as accuracy. Of course I am still waiting for 5900m upgrade. Guess Kenwood (through its "non-official" releases) really meant April 2004. :)
That's pretty funny given the latest "rants":eek: . That would be a pretty cool alternative to OG for Kenwood if they/we were shafted by D&M/OG.

There is very very little chance I would pay a monthly subscription to KW/OG to download this "freely" available information. Heck, I had be prefectly fine to do the manual search option to look it up on a 'DVD Profiler' database verses the heuristic try-to-match it automatically feature in the Entre (OG). We don't buy THAT many DVDs and it is rarely useful to have it look up rental DVDs...why it does that automatically who the heck knows!

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Now with D&M, whose to-date primary products are A/V devices, I think things get even a bit more creepy. Think of it: D&M (Denon & Marantz holding company) now owns the CDDB database...


There are other CD database systems out there other than CDDB. IE: "Gracenote." Unfortunately I know of no other service that offers album cover art retrieval. (I know this is a seperate service from CDDB and Gracenote)

I may be wrong, but openglobe and other services may get income from record labels to build targeted customer profiles. IE: Customer profile XYZ listens to ABC, DEF, and GHI on a regular basis. So record labels may learn to group and target customers with similar items they might be interested in. This is highly useful marketing data.

the FL display on my 5900 went dead tonight. It won't turn on no matter what I try. I've pushed the Disp button on the remote repeadedly, and though the choices and although the blue bar above the door dims and goes off and on, the FL display never comes on. I've gone into the settings and FL display is set to Bright, but it is still black no matter what I try. Has anyone experienced this before and is there a way to bring the display back to life?

are there certain things that cause the entre to hang more than others?

is the hard drive in the entre noisy? mine makes horrible noises.

can media manager be used to copy mp3s from the entre to another location?

Originally posted by slocko
are there certain things that cause the entre to hang more than others?

Internet Radio causes mine to freeze up 99.99% of the time. Also transferring too many MP3s at once from Media Manager will lock mine up.

is the hard drive in the entre noisy? mine makes horrible noises.

Mine is very loud too. I can hear it during low volume scenes of a movie easily. If I press down on the top about 2 inches from the front center, it quiets down a lot.

can media manager be used to copy mp3s from the entre to another location?

No, sorry. We can only copy MP3s from our PCs to the Entre or delete them with Media Manager. I think it's for copyright protection reasons that MP3s are not allowed to be copied from the Entre with Media Manager. This doesn't make much sense since you can connect certain portable MP3 players to the Entre via USB and transfer MP3s.

Bob

thxs.

i guess i will start burning them to my harddrive first and then transfer them to the entre. no sense in duplicating the effort.

Does anyone know if this new software update (I have not checked to see if I have the same version Jon and Mr. Integration were talking about) has the new IP control set? David and Kenwood mentioned the "April" software upgrade would bring control features valuable to custom integrators (Crestron, AMX, etc..) that allow control of the Entre via the IP connection. Anyone know any more about this? I have a Crestron and so far have had to control the Entre via IR since the damn thing does not listen to RS-232 commands (it gives them to the changer and revceiver, but does is not controllable itself.) I hope the new firmware will include a browser based IP control over the entre, like a lot of new projectors, wireless computer routers, and other devices have.

i can't believe it. my wife is using the entre to play music now. nice to see the fruit of your labors :)

the other day she went over a friends house and was amazed at how the friend had to struggle with multiple controls and loading dvds.

Originally posted by slocko
are there certain things that cause the entre to hang more than others?


The one thing I've found that's a guaranteed to lock it up is unplugging a usb keyboard.....

For what its worth D&M also now owns ReplayTV. I could see ReplayTV and Entre functionality merging in a subscription based model.

I have on-going concerns about OpenGlobe....

First, the on-line site for websync is broken. When I try to access my playlists on-line, I get an ASP error. The thing is, it's been this way for months, and even though I have emailed and left voicemails, no one cares a whit to fix it.

What kind of business is this, where their stuff is broken for months and no one cares?

Also, when clicking on the OpenGlobe button on my Entre, my left hand navigation icons don't load anymore... I just get the text "alt" tags. Also, many times, I get ASP errors while surfing the OpenGlobe area of the Entre.

I can only home D&M puts some rigor and professionalism around this, because I expect better.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
First, the on-line site for websync is broken. When I try to access my playlists on-line, I get an ASP error. The thing is, it's been this way for months, and even though I have emailed and left voicemails, no one cares a whit to fix it.

What kind of business is this, where their stuff is broken for months and no one cares?
I've complained about the functionality of that site since day 8. It looks like it was an intern project to me. They couldn't even put genre data in it but left the column header! That is intern work (without review). Is this the error you get as well?

>>>
Technical Information (for support personnel)
Error Type: Microsoft VBScript runtime (0x800A01A8)
Object required: 'objXML.getElementsByTagName(...).Item(...)'
/kenwood/Play3.asp, line 4376
Browser Type: Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98; Avant Browser [avantbrowser.com])
Page: GET /kenwood/Play3.asp
Time: Friday, May 09, 2003, 12:35:53 PM
<<<

Scott,

Yup. Same error. Hard to believe an intern project made the product manual, though... y'know? Maybe if it was an easter egg (unsupported), that would make more sense. But, a documented feature? I think OpenGlobe needs more people like me in-house to ensure this kinda crap doesn't happen.

How about some Pride in Product, people!

has anyone been able to find the Entre for sale online?

out of curiousity i did a search the other day, but couldn't find any place selling it.

by any chance, anyone here have a 5900m and a 5050m that they use without a scaler. wondering if there is any obvious difference in the quality of the picture on the 5050 vs the 5900.

I have both running without a scaler. The picture is very different from each machine. I use the 5050 for cds and the 5900 for movies. I don't like the 5050 for movies at all and would not own one for this purpose nor would I tell anyone to buy one for movies(unless you run it thru a scaler).

Originally posted by slocko
has anyone been able to find the Entre for sale online?

http://www.hookedontronics.com/show_prodlist.jsp?cid=2345

http://www.horizonaudiovideo.com/store/category/6/

The first one is the price that you should pay, if you're buying one. That price is very low for an Entre.

Nick :cool:

thxs Carbo. I have been thinking of getting a second player and been wondering if I could get by with a 5050 for movies. I guess unless I find a very good deal on a 5050, I better pass.

I want all my mp3s on the entre and it's frustrating not to be able to upgrade that 20 gig drive. I love the interface for mp3 playback. Being able to see cd cover art, album and track info on the big screen really adds to the listening experience.

Originally posted by Carbo
I have both running without a scaler. The picture is very different from each machine. I use the 5050 for cds and the 5900 for movies. I don't like the 5050 for movies at all and would not own one for this purpose nor would I tell anyone to buy one for movies(unless you run it thru a scaler).

if anyone is interested, there is a good deal going on at ebay for a combo entre/5900m.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=3023436341&category=39813

I haven't read this thread for awhile, has there been any fix for the " play on start " problem with the 5900 yet.

Fitz, nothing new on the anticipated updates... Would be nice if we could get a brief update from David/Brian saying one of the following :

1) Sorry guys, the "upgrade" project was shot down so don't expect the promised update announced on this forum a few months back...
2) FYI - the anticipated release date in April have been pushed due to undisclosed reasons, but rest assured the updates will come shortly...

what's wrong with the work around? stop, delay, delay, stop

i can't imagine someone that owns a 5900m and found this forum does not own a universal remote with macro capability.

Just curious that's all!!

do people turn off their entres? i have been leaving mine on.

I leave the changer on all the time but turn the Entre on/off with the receiver. Seems strange that Kenwood set the Entre up to command the receiver into standby with the Entre but not the changer.

Mike

Dear Kenwood:

I'm the guy that always used to complain about lack of multichanger support until I broke down and bought a second Entre.

I just hit slot 264 in Entre 2.

The warranty on Sovereign products is two years. Many of us purchased those products in the Fall of 2001 (when this thread got started). I do not want to rehash the issue of what Kenwood said the product would do, in contrast to what it did.

Now that April has passed, and the promised upgrade is officially late, please be reminded that we don't want to get suspicious that Kenwood will stall the upgrade until many of us are out of warranty.

To all, I am not suggesting (now) that I doubt Kenwood's intentions. Nor am I suggesting that, if the warranty were to run, that would be the end of the issue (the intervening announcement would likely affect that). Nonetheless, there is a big difference in legal status to one who complains about something within the warranty period, as opposed to after it expires.

Kenwood, please do not let anyone's warranty expire without at least some communication, now that, by your own press release, you're again late.

Nick :cool:

Very well put Nick, if all else fails, I’m sure we could put together a rather large class……..

Wayne

what's wrong with owning 3 or 4 entres? :)

kenwood doesn't do anything the easy way do they?

Dear David,


Today, Jan. 9th, Kenwood announced that a software upgrade is under
development for the Kenwood Sovereign Entre' Entertainment Hub. Some
highlights of which are as follows;


* Support for 3 Kenwood Sovereign DVD changers, DV-5900M and DV-5050M
in any combination
* Control from external devices via TCP/IP. Control specification
will be made available to authorized Kenwood Sovereign Dealers
* Easier access to DVD information. Owner's will be able to access by
simply pushing the "info." button


The program will also include upgrades for the Changers themselves. In
addition to allowing for Daisy Chain control with Entre', layer change speed
has been improved an astounding 58% and disc change time has been improved
by 20%.


The Entre' software will be available in April of 2003 and will be
downloaded automatically via the Internet. And in what I believe shows
Kenwood's real commitment to not only moving performance and ease of use
forward, but also to not leaving our loyal customers behind, a program will
be put in place to upgrade both hardware and software for current owner's of
Kenwood Sovereign DVD changers. Further details will be announced later
this month.


Thank you once again for you continued support and all of the constructive
discussion on the AVS Forum.


Regards,


Brian


Brian D. Towne
Director, Product Management
Kenwood USA Corporation


Posted by David Bott on 01-10-03 10:59 AM:

Hello...

First, so you all know, I HAVE SEEN 3 CHANGERS WORKING from ONE ENTRE!!!!

The upgrade for the Entre is just a software update. The changers will require a hardware update...not just firmware. So...you will need to unload your change, box it up, and send it into Kenwood for the FREE update. They will then ship it back to you the same way you shipped it to them. (if you sent it over night red, they send it back the same way.) You get the same unit back. When will they start this I do not know, so do not ask please.

And before you go nuts (some of you will) complaining you need to unload and send it back...remember...it is a HARDWARE UPGRADE and they are doing this for FREE.

Again...I have SEEN IT WORKING (still in beta) BUT WORKING! Even the INFO button!!!!!!

Posted by Nick Satullo on 01-11-03 04:45 AM:

I think I've seen it, too. I was at the CES Kenwood display, and got to meet Jeff. He reveals:

Upgrade will be available in April, and it will require the changers to be sent in, but I don't think the Entres need to be boxed up..

Let's see them worm out of this one


Posted by zinja on 01-12-03 09:23 PM:

Not to rain on anyone's parade, OK, maybe dampen the enthusiasm that now seems to be gushing out of everyone, including the former outspoken but always eloquent Nick.

As I read it, the "entre" software will be downloaded sometime in April (maybe). three changer support will also be made available, after a hardware upgrade to the changers. However, I do not seem to read from Mr. Towne's announcement, that the hardware fix will also be made available in April, or for that matter, anytime in the near future. I am certainly glad that David has "seen" the three changer support in action, but that does not mean that widespread implementation is imminent.

What I would like to hear from Kenwood is a detailed description of when the changer hardware fix is anticipated and how long the fix will take once we send in the changers. In addition, will the factory also fix the humming that many (but not all) are experiencing at the time of the changer upgrade? Or how about the missing disk 255 or the sometimes it ejects, sometimes it doesn't problem. I, for one, do not intend on holding my breath for the promises of impending fixes, which sound a lot like "coming soon"... Call me a skeptic, as an attorney I have been called much worse.

Posted by Mr. Integration on 04-10-03 09:08 PM:

Ok just so I don't get in trouble again....I have a source that does NOT work for Kenwood or any of it's agents, but is VERY reliable. Kenwood is currently ugrading thier in field "demo" units and is also upgrading the existing "stock" and we should get our invite to upgrade VERY soon. The software update will be at the end of this month or VERY early in May....again this is NOT an official Kenwood posting simply a rumour from a "reliable" source. I hope it is true....

Read and weep :)

I just wonder if anyone out there, other than at the CE show, has seen three DVD changer support in any retail store, and if so, where.

And I hate being right about Kenwood's failure to follow-up on the support promised in advertising and elsewhere. On the other hand, if the support is not ready for prime time (ie, full of bugs, breaks down easily, eats discs, short circuits hard drives and all those other Beta problems) I would rather they continue to work on a fix, rather than release it early and really frustrate me and all you other die-hard Kenwood owners. That being said I fail to see why Kenwood has not advised its loyal followers, who have held onto hope, praised their product, told others about their experiences, of the progress that is being made (or not made). Good consumer marketing requires a company to keep its hard core customers (which I think we all qualify as) as happy as possible. Afterall, it is cheaper to retain a customer than to spend marketing dollars to get new customers.

In the event a Kenwood representative is reading any of these posts, I suggest that anyone that has registered 2 DVD 5900m players be contacted and "loaned" a second entre until a fix is implemented. Although not a final solution, at least we will know that Kenwood is committed to its customers.

"what's wrong with the work around? stop, delay, delay, stop ". Well when I hit my remote it takes so long for the detection, then you have to wait for it to start the movie before I can stop it. Its just a hassle thats all.

if you don't have a universal remote with macro support, you should get one. will make your life a lot easier. get the radio shack 2116. it's about 30 bucks i think.



you would then just create a macro that would do discrete on, stop, keypress, keypress, stop. it works just as well. i leave mine on all the time because it takes too long for my taste. but i programmed the macro just in case somebody had powered it off.

Originally posted by P8nter
"what's wrong with the work around? stop, delay, delay, stop ". Well when I hit my remote it takes so long for the detection, then you have to wait for it to start the movie before I can stop it. Its just a hassle thats all.

the work around i came up to get around the navigation keys not being active in dvd mode was to create a shift macro for the select key.

the my shift-select macro does, play, dvd-device

so this starts the movie and dumps me into dvd mode.

i then did a shift macro for the guide key. this shift-guide macro does, entre device, movies, guide

it's not perfect for the reasons mkelly has stated perviously, but the wife finds it easy enuff. she knows that only for watching movies she needs to remember shift select and shift guide.

integrators must go crazy with programming the entre and getting to known states.

For those with more than one changer, hope is on the way

that is very cryptic. at least tell us whether this is kenwood help or outside help. entre or non entre related. :)

Guys "in the know", Sir Bott, Kenwood Execs and mediums,

What about for those of us in Europe? Do we have to pay round trip shipping (ie $500 or more) to get it to their service center, or will Kenwood either release a kit for our own installation (at our cost and under our sole responsibility, voiding the warrantee should they wish) or will Kenwood instruct its European Service Center on how to make the mods? :confused:

TIA.

Ok Kenwood...I have been an ardent supporter but my patience is at an end. I understand you not having the upgrade ready as promised, but how about some response~!!!!!!!! I am going to put my Entre and Changer on Ebay and I will wait for Escient's verson that will piggy back with the Fireball(September I am told) I think it is totally unfair to "hide out" and not give ANY info to the early adopters who have spent hard earned money and shown faith in a company that was/is trying to break into the high end market. I think you have repaid that loyalty with empty promises and lies. My VR5700 has already been replaced with a Sunfire Ultimate Receiver and I was really hoping I could keep the Entre and DV5900M but I am out of room and the product can only do half the job. I am also embarrassed because I have recommended this to family, friends and business associates....I am the guy they trusted and I have egg on my face!!!

I guess I have concern about a company that not only cannot keep a promise but won't even give a reason why.....I mean at least give us a "reach around"...


My apologies for the tone of this posting but this IS the 19th of May and we not seen hide nor hair of anyone with real answers!!!

Mr. I, before you post your equipment on E-Bay, visit the place you purchased it from, aks to speak to the owner or (regional manager if its a big company) and aks for a refund. Afterall, the equipment is not performing as pormised. Maybe returns will get Kenwood moving. If you sell it on E-bay, it certainly does not hurt Kenwood, return it for a full refund and now its going to hurt some pockets. Just a thought.

even after prunning, joining netflix, and more selective purchasing, my collection is now at 420.

it would be cruel if one day you have to give up the entre and there is no alternative.

discovered something about the entre and mp3 copying. if you copy mp3s from the entre to a cd-r, it doesn't finalize the disc. so you can pop it back in and copy more mp3s.

My 5050 has now started having problems playing discs. :( It's not as if I play a lot of discs in it, either. Mr. Integration, any pricing/specs on that Escient? Pointer to a URL would be swell.

you might as well as exercise the warranty and get it replaced. else it will only get worse adn eventually just die.

I would just as soon wait to have it fixed until the "upgrade" materializes, if it ever actually does. Then I only have to ship it once. I have several other DVD players, so I can play discs with them and just use the Kenwood as a fancy storage system for now.

Too bad the hardware update isn't likely to fix the chroma bug. :( If they did, that would be truly fantastic.

Originally posted by slocko
that is very cryptic. at least tell us whether this is kenwood help or outside help. entre or non entre related. :)

I'm working on replacement software that controls the Kenwood DV-5900M (and related changers) It will control 3 changers, and work w/o the entre. It will allow you to sort disc into 3 categories, music, DVD-A, and movies.

Only a couple hitches:

1) You have to enter album art/movie posters manually (aka scanning)
2) You have to enter new movie information manually (Title, director, actors, discription, genre etc...)

But I'm AT LEAST another month out before it will be done. I may eventually add gracenote support for Redbood CD's, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that last point.

BTW: It's freeware designed to run under Windows OS :-)

Side Benefit: If you have a Yamaha RX-Z1 it will also control that. The software will recognize which disc is being queued up and automatically set volume and sound field preferences for that particular disc, and or track title.

Nice! Couldn't you partner with the PowerDVD folks to get access to their library of info and cover art?

Digital, why don't you just team up with Mario and help him integrate dvdlobby/cdlobby with the kenwood changers. you supply the hardware smarts and he can supply the frontend. he allows for the importing of dvd profiler info. he just doesn't offer a way to control the kenwood directly.

sounds like you found a way to provide that.

anyway, keep up the good work.

Originally posted by DigitalGriffin
I'm working on replacement software that controls the Kenwood DV-5900M (and related changers) It will control 3 changers, and work w/o the entre. It will allow you to sort disc into 3 categories, music, DVD-A, and movies.

Only a couple hitches:

1) You have to enter album art/movie posters manually (aka scanning)
2) You have to enter new movie information manually (Title, director, actors, discription, genre etc...)

But I'm AT LEAST another month out before it will be done. I may eventually add gracenote support for Redbood CD's, but I wouldn't hold your breath on that last point.

BTW: It's freeware designed to run under Windows OS :-)

Side Benefit: If you have a Yamaha RX-Z1 it will also control that. The software will recognize which disc is being queued up and automatically set volume and sound field preferences for that particular disc, and or track title.

5900 is dying on me. It won't open or play any discs. Whenever I hit "open," it says open on the display but then does nothing. If I choose for it to play a movie via the entre, it goes to the blue Kenwood screen and again, nothing happens. Also, nothing happens when I turn the knob to choose DVD's or anything else.

Originally posted by slocko
Digital, why don't you just team up with Mario and help him integrate dvdlobby/cdlobby with the kenwood changers.

Being a Windows DLL Extension, it's easy enough to integrate into any language. But our projects are taking two different routes. I wanted mine to be freeware. (No offense Mario.)

that is what happened to mine and I had to send it in for repair. I think they said the part that spins the disc was broken. It was a hundred dollar part. Now it's good as new. I haven't had one unreadable disc error since.

I hope this is not a recurring problem. My warranty runs out in november I believe.

Originally posted by DerekFSU
5900 is dying on me. It won't open or play any discs. Whenever I hit "open," it says open on the display but then does nothing. If I choose for it to play a movie via the entre, it goes to the blue Kenwood screen and again, nothing happens. Also, nothing happens when I turn the knob to choose DVD's or anything else.

Thanks Slocko. I always check here first before I call anyone.

i had to take it apart to take my dvds out.

After getting my Entre to successfully register (had to specify DNS addresses given me by tech support) and loading it with CDs, I have noticed pauses in music (MP3) playback. After a little expirementation, I have determined that it is a problem in playback and not recording. It seems that the CDs were converted to MP3 properly but the Entre inserts about a one second pause at seemingly random places in playback. The unit is not connected to the net or doing anything in the background.

Anyone else seen this behavior?

Slocko, any hints as to how to take it apart for the DVD's?

It's very easy. Screws on the sides and I think a couple on the back, and the top cover lifts off. The carousel is then freely accessible.

You could use a jackhammer and some dynamite, but that might void the warranty :D

I can tell you from experience that it DOES void the warranty.

spare the dynamite, it's worth more. :-)

just remove all the small screws from the side and the back and the cover comes off. if your player is full, the first few dvds you sort of have to squeeze out. after enuff have been removed you can begin titlting them to the side and slide out.

i used a long thick rca cable which i notted at one end and began sliding them down the cable. when i was done, i knotted the other end. my kenwood service center stocks all the parts and turned it around in like 3 days i think. i was lucky to have one only an hour away.

if your eject is not working, remember to mention that. the guy glued the spring so it wouldn't pop out of place.

Hello all!

I've had a 5900m for about 2 years now and have not had 1 single problem with it.

However, last summer (1 year ago, almost to the day) I tried to get a second 5900m to daisy chain them together. Between then and now I have been through 9 different 5900m's without finding a single one that works properly.

I have had units that would not open because this piece of tin or something kept popping out, preventing the door from opening. I've had units that would not eject the discs. I had one player that pulled 3 DISCS into the play area and was spinning them all against eachother!! Over the course of the last 2 weeks I've had two new units......both with the same problem. They play the discs just fine but they also make a lawnmower type hum while they are playing. The hum is so loud it drowns out the sound of the DVD at what I consider normal playing volumes. Tomorrow I will be headed back to Soundtrack for my 10th try at a second 5900m.

Has anyone else had problems like this? The thing that really gets me is that my first 5900m, the one that has worked perfectly since the day I got, was ordered from Crutchfield and shipped via UPS from NY to Colorado so I would think it would be more likely to have problems than all these units that I am getting locally. I've called Kenwood a few times and there answer is "I'm sorry, exchange it at Soundtrack or send it to us for service." I really want this player because I think the performance is great and it saves me a TON of shelf space by being able to box up all my DVD cases. I have considered ordering another one from Crutchfield but I don't want to pass up on the great deal I'm currently getting from Soundtrack which is almost $300 less than Crutchfields price and includes a 5 year warranty.

If anyone has any words of advice they would be greatly appreciated. I'm getting tired of loading 400 discs only to play a few movies and then run into problems and have to take all those discs out again, not to mention the 30 minute drive each way to get to my local Soundtrack.:(

i think there is a fix for the humming sound somewhere in this thread.

RE: Humming
Posted by zinja on 10-08-02 05:28 AM:
Mr. Integration, there are a number of posts here about a vibration problem that a number of people have experienced. In many instances it starts out at the initial startup of the DVD and either stops after a few minutes into the movie, or in my case both hum from beginning to end. There is apparently a support member in the back of the unit that is touching something. The fix is to take it back to a qualified dealer, that knows of the problem so that they can attach a small felt pad to the crossmember, or open it yourself (can you say void your warranty), or just live with the noise.

Thanks Scott and Slocko, I'll give it a try.

i remember a post with instructions. don't remember if it was this thread or another. do a search on felt pad and you might find it.

I just finished speaking with someone at Kenwood. I was told the Entre update version 2.0 and enhancements to the megachangers were delayed for reasons he is not aware of. He is confident the update will be released in the next 1 1/2. The Entre will be updated automatically and new megachangers will begin shipping with the enhancements (apparently they are keeping all stock in the warehouse until the update is released and they will start to ship updated changers once the entre software is released). Nothing new to report for current owners, they will still have to send the changers in for the modifications. For those of us in the market for a changer Kenwood will let us know the serial number range for changers shipped with the update.

I hope this helps. (I'm still trying to decide whether to purchase the Entre & DV-5900M now, or wait until the update is released.)

;)

in the next 1 1/2 days? weeks? months? years? lifetimes?

why does my entre freeze whenever I pull out a disc from the rental slot? am i suppose to power of the entre before removing the disc?

Never had that one Slocko.

for whatever reason pulling out the disc triggers a lookup.

Home Entertainment 2003 will take place in SF between 6/5-8... May be this will be the time and place where the Multi-Changer support will be announced !? Any one know if Kenwood is planning to participate ?

Lars, why would they make an announcement about something that was advertised over one year ago? No, I think that we won't hear anything from Kenwood at HE 2003 on multichanger support, afterall, its not something they should be very proud of. It will be interesting to see if they can get multichanger support before everyones 5900m break down.

I repeat my question from a previous post. Has anyone actually seen a working multichanger demonstration in any retail store? Just curious.


David and Kenwood, how about some sort of update.

I guess wishful thinking on my behalf - I think You are probably correct! Unfortunately...

entre lockups are pretty annoying. they seem to happen most frequently when you pull a guide. entre has to hold the record for the longest reboot time.

kenwood will never understand the value of open communication. what can be worse than promising something and then not saying why it wasn't delivered? i can't phantom the logic behind not giving out an update.

guessing their motives is like trying to figure out what the movie matrix reloaded is about :)

Slocko, I saw matrix reloaded tonight and it is real easy to understand - throw in a lot of high tech and include some philosophical gobbly gook and end it with "to be continued" $9 bucks for a ticket and I get a "to be continued" sounds real familiar to me -- Kenwood are you listening - I will not be spending another $9 bucks to see Matirx III -- I considered it to be a ripoff. And guess what, I think this entre/5900m is starting to feel like a rip off.

Does anyone know how the VR-5700's line-out (DIGITAL OUT, MD/TAPE1 REC OUT, CD2/TAPE2 MONITOR REC OUT, etc.) is sourced when multiple inputs carry a signal?

For example when I play a DVD-A disc a signal is present on the 6CH INPUT, DVD COAXIAL DIGITAL IN, and even the CD1 inputs. If I listen to the CD2/TAPE2 MONITOR REC OUT I hear an analog source. I deduced this was an analog source from the lack of ability to mix 5.1 channels to 2.0 as I can do with the digital source.

Is the bus configurable? Is it possible that multiple sources are live at the same time? Can a digital only source be routed to the bus?

Thanks in advance for saving me a lot of cable swapping!

Namaste,
McE

SIGNAL PATH

DM-5900M (SUB1) - DIGITAL COAXIAL OUT + MIX LINE OUTPUT ==>

DM-5900M (MAIN) - DIGITAL COAXIAL OUT + MIX LINE OUTPUT + 6CH OUTPUT ==>

VR-5700 - CD2/TAPE2 MONITOR REC OUT ==> Grado RA1 headphone amp

Whenever I have to reboot my Entre, it starts up again in the Music guide. Is there any way to get it to reboot into the Movie guide?

i haven't paid attention, but i thought it always came back to the screen i was in.

Mine always reboots to the music section as well (did it yesterday). It hasn't bothered me, since it has to start somewhere. Just hitting "Movies" takes you to them.

Nick :cool:

It bothers me principally because I only use the movies section so having to switch is a pain.

i found a way to verify that all your music and movies are classified in a group.

go to the all view and scroll down one by one, keeping your eye on the genre. if you come across a channel that has an empty genre field, that channel has not been assigned a group.

i found i had missed a few this way.

now i can sleep better at night :)

Here is some more interesting news......


http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layo...ay=breakingNews

Who is using DVD-R backups of DVD movies or TV shows in the DV-5900M? I have been able to record DVDs on my Panny E20 from my TiVo and a few backups of DVDs I own made on my computer, but I am having some playback problems. I think it might be realted to the media I am using, but I just tried one the other day and it burned without errors, played in the Panny recorder fine, but was very choppy and kept locking up in the changer. If any of you are using DVD-R in your changer, what brand of blanks are you using? Any other tips?

Mikemav, I have burned DVD+RW and DVD+R that have worked on the DV5900m. I captured several old VHS movies that are not available on DVD, used Pinnacle 8 to add a DVD menu and than used Nero to burn to the DVD+. Both worked fine in the 5900m.

What brand of blanks are you using? I know it is probably different with -R than with +R, but still it never hurts to get a suggestion. I tried some pretty cheap ones (.79 ea) and they were hit and miss. Those are the ones that seem to burn okay but have playback glitches on the changer. I also bought a spindle of high quality Ritek, but I have a feeling they were a bad batch since I cannot get any of the 5 I have tried so far to burn in my computer (media error.) The funny thing is one did burn in the Panny set-top DVD-R. Odd.

I have used both memorex and fujifilm DVD+. I usually burn to the RW first, just to make sure the thing works.

I've had good luck with Memorex DVD+R and +RW. Have not tried any other brands, so this isn't much of a sample.

Mike

Would anyone know how to acquire sales figures for Sovereign products? When Jeff of Kenwood made his valiant attempt to post on this thread,
he told me that it was some incredibly low amount, especially Entre units. If I'm recalling correctly, it could have been under a 1000 Entre units sold, worldwide.

The relatively few units has never boded well for the consumers, as it suggests there would be relatively low financial exposure to Kenwood if they decide to renege and leave us in the lurch.

The "grand announcement," the promise of an upgrade, is now approaching six months old. Consider, however, that the product is now approaching two years old, and that the upgrade that Kenwood finally got 'round to promising was nothing more than what it said the units would do when they were originally released.

Too much time is passing without further word from Kenwood. How long do you wait before you can only conclude you're being had?

The old venom is rising again.

Nick :cool:

my dvds keep accumulating :(

Nick does the entre respond to RF commands? Not sure how you got the 2nd entre working with RF?

If kenwood abandons the entre, hopefully they will dump them cheap to get rid of stock.

Originally posted by slocko


Nick does the entre respond to RF commands? Not sure how you got the 2nd entre working with RF?



Not really. However, my Marantz RC9200 Remote Control can send either IR or RF. When it sends RF, it is received by a converter box which converts it to IR. Since both my Entres are ensconced in cabinets, when I send the RF signal, the only one that "gets it" is the one that is in the cabinet with a converter box.

The other Entre just receives the straight IR commands. Those get transmitted within the cabinet by the use of the "Powermid" IR transmitter/receiver devices. Note that the Entre and the DV-5900 and the DV-5050 also have IR sensor inputs on the rear panel, that will accept a mini-pin from one of the IR "powermids."

It's a good workaround, but the workaround stops at two. Then, you have to go to an IR router, which is a bit of a pain.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by mikemav
Who is using DVD-R backups of DVD movies or TV shows in the DV-5900M?
See responses in this thread (mine start with 04-03-03 07:42 AM). Kenwood DV-5050M or 5900M with DVD-R disks??? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=110513&highlight=5900)

It'd be great if those using the 5900 would contribute here: http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=kenwood&Search=Search

Scott,

I put my comments regarding the DV-5900 on the DVDrhelp page last November.

Mike

Nick, I am back to practicing law, gave up being a Morgan Stanley branch manager and now I am with a firm that specializes in stock fraud and class action lawsuits...not that I would want to bring a lawsuit against Kenwood for misleading us or anything.;)

Count me in the class.

Who is using DVD-R backups of DVD movies or TV shows in the DV-5900M? I have been able to record DVDs on my Panny E20 from my TiVo and a few backups of DVDs I own made on my computer, but I am having some playback problems. I think it might be realted to the media I am using, but I just tried one the other day and it burned without errors, played in the Panny recorder fine, but was very choppy and kept locking up in the changer. If any of you are using DVD-R in your changer, what brand of blanks are you using? Any other tips?

I've been using primarily Ritek 2x DVD-R media (spindles of 100 for about $120 via internet) and they play back fine in my 5900M. I burn my discs in a 2x Toshiba drive and a 2x Pioneer drive. The only time I've gotten choppy/poor playback was when I was experimenting with SVCD which the 5900M doesn't support. Recordable VCDs and DVDs are playing back fine for me.

Kris

If you own an Entre unit, and live in Ohio, would you send me a PM?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by ScottF200
It'd be great if those using the 5900 would contribute here: http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=kenwood&Search=Search [/B]

I've submitted the 5900M to the database... I guess once they add it, we can specify the feature set, as it form didn't allow any specs other than the name and manufacturer link.

On TWICE:
http://www.twice.com/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=120060&display=breakingNews

This seemingly innocuous news actually, to me, is very encouraging... it shows that, potentially, despite the D&M acquisition, GraceNote plans on continuing their business model of OEMing their technology.

My previous posts on this subject reflected my concern that D&M, primarily a CE vendor that competes with the likes of Kenwood Sovereign, would be interested in keeping the GraceNote technology to themselves to make their specific Denon/Marantz lines uniquely Internet-aware.

If I am to read into this press release correctly, those worries have been put to rest.

i read in one of the recent issues of A/V Interiors that the Sirrus deal with Kenwood is only for two years. The entre is specifically mentioned.

That is too bad.

this is kind of old, but i was not aware that it was compatible with the kenwood changers.

http://www.escient.com/releases/escient_jan0903_1.htm

Originally posted by slocko
this is kind of old, but i was not aware that it was compatible with the kenwood changers.

http://www.escient.com/releases/escient_jan0903_1.htm

No DVD support. Look here http://www.escient.com/productinfo/FireBallEHMPFAQ12303.pdf

It will work with CDs, but it says that the Fireball will "ignore" DVDs, which, after all, is the primary attraction to Entre.

I have heard rumblings that Escient is about to come out with a product (like the one mentioned here) which will work with Sony, Pioneer, or Kenwood changers. But DVD support is essential, and that's what I'm not reading it will provide.

The problem with the Sony and Pioneer changers, even if DVD support is added, is no "real" daisy-chain capability. The Sony will only daisy-chain for CDs, and the Pioneer will only permit component video on the first changer. Make no mistake, even without the Entre, the Kenwood units are the most "enlightened" units out there.

But now it's June, and I'm tired of the silence. Again, if there are any Entre owners in Ohio please contact me. There is a step that I can take to at least bring this issue to the forefront.

Nick :cool:

Fireball will NOT do DVD's but Escient plans a stand alone DVD management system this fall that WILL interface with the Fireball. It will use Sony, Pioneer or Kenwood changers and you should be able to "mix and match"

Originally posted by Mr. Integration
Fireball will NOT do DVD's but Escient plans a stand alone DVD management system this fall that WILL interface with the Fireball. It will use Sony, Pioneer or Kenwood changers and you should be able to "mix and match"

I hope so. I hope that controlling up to three changers won't require daisy-chaining either.

By the way, if this happens, then Entre is dead in the water.

Nick :cool:

i was aware they didn't do dvd management, but i didn't know they could interface with the kenwood players in any capacity.

the escient solution will be expensive, but if kenwood bails out, what choice does one have. there is no going back once you have that rich interface.

Fellows, there is a time to talk, a time to be patient, and a time to act.

We are nearly two years since the release of the product.

We are six months since the announcement of the upgrade.

We are two months past the promise of the upgrade, without a word.

We are approximately threee months away from the beginning of the time that warranties will begin to expire.

It's no longer time to talk. It's no longer time to be patient. It is time to act. Again, if any Entre owner lives in Ohio please contact me via PM. If anyone else wants to contact me concerning their concerns, please emai me at nsatullo@reminger.com. I would like to speak with you.


Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
By the way, if this happens, then Entre is dead in the water. Maybe yes, maybe no: remember that the Entre is itself a pared-down version of the Fireball with DVD management built in using the same (albeit uglier) interface. The Fireball has a bigger hard drive than the Entre and costs twice as much but doesn't do DVD Management. The now discontinued Escient PowerPlay was their DVD manager, but it cost even more than a Fireball. So to do what an Entre does using Escient products, you'd have to pay substantially more and end up with two boxes. Of course, it will work perfectly, have first rate customer support and will have a really glitzy, user-friendly interface. There is no question that Escient will never produce a one-box solution. I spoke to someone there about two years ago who told me that they feel that to do so would mean that such a unit would canibalize sales from the stand-alone models (in other words, they think that customers wouldn't buy two $4,000 boxes when they could buy one $6,000 box). Presumably that is why the Entre isn't given the full feature set of the Fireball or its beautiful graphics. Also, I'm willing to bet that the timing of changes to the Entre and the 5900 are directly related to the development of the new Escient DVD manager. My guess is that we'll see both of these hit the street about the same time.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
I've submitted the 5900M to the database... I guess once they add it, we can specify the feature set, as it form didn't allow any specs other than the name and manufacturer link.
Jon, I don't quite follow you. There is a "Kenwood DV-5900M" entry there (http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdplayers.php?DVDname=kenwood&Search=Search) already. Thanks, Scott

Originally posted by rbienstock
Also, I'm willing to bet that the timing of changes to the Entre and the 5900 are directly related to the development of the new Escient DVD manager. My guess is that we'll see both of these hit the street about the same time.

You're an optimistic man. From the freshness of the press releases regarding Escient products, I would agree that we'll see it hit the street. From the now-ancient promises of an upgraded Entre/DV-5900, I'm much less sure.

It took Kenwood nearly a year and a half to provide a half-hearted assurance to its purchasers that it would finally make good on its product. Reading back, the "further details" of that upgrade were supposed to have been announced later in January 2003, and the Entre upgrade in April. Brian Towne, who apparently eats lots of sushi, has been a silent movie.

If there was still a definite intention by Kenwood to "hit the street" with what it initially promised, then why not just say it will still be here, albeit late. There's only one reason--they're reserving the right to not make the upgrade at all.

I intend to push the issue. Call it normal, call it everyday life in consumer electronics, the fact is that a manufacturer subject to the Uniform Commercial Code did not deliver, and probably violated consumer protection statutes in every state in which a sale was made.

nsatullo@reminger.com. Only if you fellow Entre owners want to chew the convergence fat.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by ScottF200
Jon, I don't quite follow you. There is a "Kenwood DV-5900M" entry already. Thanks, Scott

You're right. I didn't see it. I expected it to be under the 5050.

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
From the freshness of the press releases regarding Escient products, I would agree that we'll see it hit the street. Where have you seen Escient press releases on the DVD-100? Nothing is posted on their site, and the people there told me that all they can say at this point is that it exists and the model number. I'm very anxious to find out more.

Originally posted by rbienstock
Where have you seen Escient press releases on the DVD-100? Nothing is posted on their site, and the people there told me that all they can say at this point is that it exists and the model number. I'm very anxious to find out more.

I wasn't talking about the DVD-100. I was talking about the March 23 releases regarding the two new Escient products, both of which are only CD related. My only point was that at least they're moving on something.

Kenwood, on the other hand, seems to have dropped off the face of the earth. I am very disappointed in its silence. I'm willing to be convinced that it will make good, but some deadline has to be set. If we don't get word by the end of June, then I think the only reasonable conclusion is that Kenwood has no intention of making good. Its silence certainly does not bode well.

Nick :cool:

Out of the blue, whenever I try to launch IR browser I am getting message
"DNS failure testing internet connection". Anybody seen this before? Suggestions?

JNelson,

I have received that message a few times when I have lost my internet connection for one reason or another. Once I reset the internet connection and the Entre, it all worked fine.

Originally posted by JNelson
Out of the blue, whenever I try to launch IR browser I am getting message
"DNS failure testing internet connection". Anybody seen this before? Suggestions? Entres lose their network connection periodically, reporting a DNS error (it isn't really that) and when that happens, you have to reboot.

I've been thinking about buying the Sovereign Entre and related components. Should I hold off, considering some of the issues people are talking about?

What is considered the next best alternative?

you should definetely hold off until some announcement is made. if it's a positive announcment, then you can buy with confidence. if it's negative, then it will probably mean that at some point you will be able to buy the equipment at clearance prices, or on ebay as people get rid of their stuff.

Originally posted by slocko
you should definetely hold off until some announcement is made. if it's a positive announcment, then you can buy with confidence. if it's negative, then it will probably mean that at some point you will be able to buy the equipment at clearance prices, or on ebay as people get rid of their stuff.

Funny thing is that the Kenwood changers might still have utility and value even without the Entre, because they're the only ones I know of that provide the true daisy chaining (digital inputs and outputs, component video inputs and outputs).

But let's not kid ourselves about Kenwood's intentions anymore. I guess they'd like to say they're only a few months late, because it took them that long to announce their uprgrade, but we're coming up on two years. Whatever the reason is--some intervening event by Escient, Openglobe, whatever--just ask yourself this: How do you, as a reasonable adult consumer, not conclude that you're just getting the run around from Kenwood? Would you make a different conclusion from any other vendor of consumer electronics, after this wait?

Maybe Escient will produce something that otherwise satisfies us, but it won't get us what we paid for from Kenwood. I am going to wait until July 1, 2003 to conclude that Kenwood is just feeding us a line of horse-excrement, and then I'm going to take action later that month. My prediction is that Brian Towne of Kenwood won't utter a word of assurance, because he knows by now that all Sovereign customers have been had, and, frankly, he's the one that's been doing it.

Nick :cool:

For what it's worth, a quick scan of Crutchfield tonight has the Sovereign DVD players back on the list, now at $999 for the 5900. The 5050 and 5700 are also listed as in stock.

No Entre or receivers however.

In talking with Kenwood support they told me the Entre software should be ready for download this week and the hardware program should start next week. I asked if this was in writing, and the support person said the dealers should have all details by Friday.

Originally posted by aauno
In talking with Kenwood support they told me the Entre software should be ready for download this week and the hardware program should start next week. I asked if this was in writing, and the support person said the dealers should have all details by Friday.

Well, if this turns out to be true, I will gladly eat my hat. I will also say that a very credible source has recently advised me that the upgrade is near, and that he will be sending his own hardware in for a test of it.

We will see. Warranties should begin to expire in about ninety days. I am too accustomed to the Entre/Sovereign Changer to want to do without it, but Kenwood has required too much patience of its customers. If all's well that ends well, I will be the first to buy two more changers, so that I will have two Entres, and six changers.

Nick :cool:

just checked with my authorized service center, and they are not in the loop yet.

by the way, since they fixed my 5900m it has worked like a champ. not one lockup. one of my discs from netflix had a nasty scratch and the player almost played through it. i had to skip one chapter.

when i tried the same disc in my trusty pioneer it really had problems with it. the problem showed up earlier and i couldn't skip the chapter. so for the first time, the 5900 did better job handling a scratch than the pioneer.

For what it's worth-

I just spoke with the Virginia Beach service center concerning my 5900 DVD that recently died. I asked about the timeline for the firmware update and if they could update mine while they were fixing it. After checking with the service manager, I was told if I wanted both at the same time then I should wait at least two weeks to send it in. Not bad news in my opinion.

. . . I know, I know, Kenwood's revenge.

Two Entres. Two USB to Ethernet Converters. Have worked for over a year. The CATC Netmate one, the one with my first Entre, used to have a green light on. It's off. The other Entre, whose USB to Ethernet Converter has no light, just doesn't work.

The converters are both hooked up to the hardwired D-Link Router. It's not like there's a switch that would turn them both off at once is there? All other internet connections work off the same router.

Anyone help?


Nick :cool:

I only have one Entre, thru a Netmate and Linksys router. When my Netmate light goes out I reset my cable modem, router and Entre all at the same time. That's worked for me both times its happened.

I think both times were caused by prolonged power outages, meaning longer than my UPS supplied power.

Jerry

Here's the interesting thing. If I switch the Netmate to Entre II, the light goes on it.

But . . . .


When I try to connect to the internet with either, I fail.

Why is it that I'm going to wind up paying someone to come out and troubleshoot this?

Of course, sometimes these things go away after a day (true).

Nick :cool:

I think Brian has a voodoo doll of you Nick. Now let me pull both his arms out. Oops, his entres don't work anymore. ha ha ha (evil laughter from Brian) :)

two weeks? is that two business weeks or two calendar weeks? or is it two dog weeks, which would be like 14 human weeks? or are two kenwood weeks like two human years? I am so excited about this news that I almost did not go to work today and my heart started to have palpitations (ok maybe not that bad). As I have said all along, seeing is believing, guess we'll have to wait two human weeks to see what really happens.

Well, today's Friday, though it's early A.M. By the break of day, I don't supposed anyone would care to bet on whether we actually see upgrades or not.

Assume for a minute that Kenwood does not come out with the upgrades? What do you do? There's still nothing remotely like it available, with real daisy-chaining capability, and Kenwood may have us eating the proverbial excrement. I'm not sure enough people understand what the possibilities really are to institutute chase against Kewood in court. I may wind up buying more units even if the Entre doesn't work with them.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
If all's well that ends well, I will be the first to buy two more changers, so that I will have two Entres, and six changers.
Nick, I'm starting to get a little concerned about you. You are now mixing up 2 weeks with a 2 day timeframe <grin>. Also I'm concerned about you getting 6 changers...do you run a cinema (DVD-V fetish) or a music hall (DVD-A fetish) for the blind? All kidding aside we can certainly hope the extra time was to work out some bugs and do extra beta testing (wished they asked some of you ultra-hardcores to do that).

Originally posted by ScottF200
Nick, I'm starting to get a little concerned about you. You are now mixing up 2 weeks with a 2 day timeframe <grin>. Also I'm concerned about you getting 6 changers...do you run a cinema (DVD-V fetish) or a music hall (DVD-A fetish) for the blind? All kidding aside we can certainly hope the extra time was to work out some bugs and do extra beta testing (wished they asked some of you ultra-hardcores to do that).

No . . . . I've had three Sony ES CD changers for a long time. Right now, I've got those connected to my laptop via the CDJ software.

So what's been lurking behind all my frustration with Kenwood is to add the Entre glitz and two additional changers to handle my CD collection. Right now, the only music I use the Sovereigns for are DVD-Audio. I want to get rid of the Sonys.

By the way, I did discover another hole in the Entre Daisy-chaining scheme. The DV-5900s have 6 channel outputs, but no inputs. Practically speaking, that won't make a difference for a long, long, time, but . . . if you really wanted to be consistent . . . .

The left side of my brain says that Kenwood will never come through. However, there are people whispering into my right ear, so I'm getting some renewed hope . . . unfortunately, there are no options.

Nick :cool:

Nick have you ever considered ditching the cd media and going with high quality audio format? I believe there are several system out there that are not pc based with a graphical interface, the audiorequest comes to mind.

as it stands, with two entres you can't can't unify all your music. so might as well as go with a different system for you cds.

Does anyone know if Kenwood plans to include DVI outputs in their new multi-changers? I would like to buy another one, but don't want to sacrifice the picture quality that these new DVD players seem to have.

New multi-changers? All talk of new multi-changers has been strictly rumor and wishlist as far as I understand. I believe there has been no official announcement of any new Sovereign products since their initial release.

Nick,

Let me echo what Sloko says: an AudioRequest using either WAV or lossless compression is far slicker than any changer system out there. Moreover, unless you use your changers principally as a storage device and listen to your CDs one at a time, then, IMO, the 5900 is useless as a CD changer due to the huge length of time it takes to switch between tracks on different discs.

Wouldn't it be great if the Entre could download to the Music Keg? I just got a Best Buy flyer featuring this Music Keg thing. It looks like Kenwood repackaged a Phatnoise product. Holds 25,000 songs! I would entertain the thought of buying one for my car if I could download from my Entre to it. I have no desire to copy all of my CDs again . . .

Anyone have hints at 2.0 features yet? I just hope they fix the MP3 playback so I don't get any more of those annoying random pauses during playback.

Originally posted by rbienstock
Nick,

Let me echo what Sloko says: an AudioRequest using either WAV or lossless compression is far slicker than any changer system out there. Moreover, unless you use your changers principally as a storage device and listen to your CDs one at a time, then, IMO, the 5900 is useless as a CD changer due to the huge length of time it takes to switch between tracks on different discs.

What do I do with 500+ CDs?

Can I expect sound quality to equal the digital output of DVD Changer into a MC-12?

Are we talking MP3 files here?

I'll freely admit . . . I just like what the Entre does disc managment. I won't like the speed between selections, but I can get over that. What I'd really like to hear is what hardware I'll need, costs vs. benefits, etc.

Nick :cool:

For the kind of quality you would want Nick, I don't think Mp3 would be the format for you. Like rbienstock mentioned, wav (which is uncompressed I believe) or some other really good compression formats out there.

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
What do I do with 500+ CDs?
The same thing I do with 3,000+ CDs -- Stick 'em back in the jewel box and store 'em in a closet, or use 'em in your car. I've even digitized a few of my vinyl LPs.

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
Can I expect sound quality to equal the digital output of DVD Changer into a MC-12?
If you rip to .WAV files, you'll have bit-identical copies of the original CD content, but use the most disk space. If you rip to FLAC (Free Lossless Audio Codec), you'll theoretically end up with something identical the original once uncompressed but use up only half the disk space. My ARQ server hasn't been upgraded to take FLAC, so I can't address whether it works or not. The server has SP/DIF or TOSlink output into the MC-12.

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
Are we talking MP3 files here?
Only if you want to. a 320K MP3 file takes up about 1/4 of the space of a .WAV file of the same content.

Originally posted by Nick Satullo
I'll freely admit . . . I just like what the Entre does disc managment. I won't like the speed between selections, but I can get over that. What I'd really like to hear is what hardware I'll need, costs vs. benefits, etc.
OK, Audio Request makes three lines of servers, but knowing you, the Nitro (lower end) line isn't for you. So you'd go for either the Fusion or Tera lines. These are fundamentally identical in functionality, the basic difference being the capacity and the Fusion taking up 2 rack units and the Tera using 3 rack untis. Among the cool things you can do is to stream audio between any two ARQ units that you own, so if you have a weekend house, you can listen to your music there. Costs range from an 80 GB Fusion at $4,000 to a 750 GB Tera at $20,000. A 960 GB Tera for $25,000 has been announced, but hasn't been released yet. You can find out more here: http://www.request.com/us/

Hi guys

I just found out something interesting, I D/L the manual from Escients new E series Fireball (I know...no DVD support...YET) as I was curious as to how they accessed the three changers. As I read through the manual I first noticed that there were three RS-232 ports on the back, so I assumed that you would connect one to each changer to control them, however upon further perusal I discovered that you need only connect the RS-232 to the Main unit and daisy chain the others through the changer control ports on the back (1/8'' cable). So now can anyone out there explain to me how Escient is able to control three changers with one connection but Kenwood needs to modify all of the units out there to daisy chain the RS-232's. I confess to not being a software engineer but if it is possible to do this using only software in the Fireball don't you think it would be considerably cheaper for Kenwood to just do an update in the Entre instead of all the changers. Am I missing something here?


Tom

Originally posted by b00bie
So now can anyone out there explain to me how Escient is able to control three changers with one connection but Kenwood needs to modify all of the units out there to daisy chain the RS-232's. I confess to not being a software engineer but if it is possible to do this using only software in the Fireball don't you think it would be considerably cheaper for Kenwood to just do an update in the Entre instead of all the changers. Am I missing something here?
Tom [/B]

Actually, Kenwood has found that the easiest and most economical upgrade solution is to simply announce it, and nothing more. This way, there's no hardware, software, or configuration changes for 100% of the installed base.

Talk about a cost-effective solution. :mad:

Jon,

That is the first thing to make me smile in this forum in a looooong time!!!

I am actually chuckling!

Paging Mr. Towne....Mr. Towne. Is there a Brian Towne here????:)

Jon


Once again I have overlooked the obvious....Thanks for the insight


tom

I'm sorry for relaying what Kenwood support told me about having the doc out last Friday. I thought I could believe the information. I will love the Entre/changer function once it's delivered. I try not to gripe, but I vote with my feet, I bought an Alpine system for my car. In fact I might not ever buy equipment from Kenwood again.

i can't believe we are all kenwood prisoners. no where to go. some of us can spend the big bucks in whatever expensive solution comes along this year from escient, but a lot of us will continue to be at the mercy of kenwood. i just hope the players turn out to be reliable.

Guys & Gals,

I am not without hope. Sure, we're being strung out. Sure, we obviously aren't powerful or important enough to demand that Kenwood actually communicate with us.

But, every time I talk to Kenwood on the phone via support rep, it's clear that they are continuing work on a solution for us. There's been absolutely no sign of them abandoning the project. If they abandoned the upgrade project, I believe I would hear a different message from Kenwood.

Lastly, Kenwood 'put themselves out' by officially announcing this upgrade via press release. They didn't have to do that, you know. But, they did. I still think they intend on delivering an upgrade to the system.

I do wish they'd communicate about the delay -- in fact, it seems that not communicating about an officially announced release is irrisponsible. This lack of communication is also the reason behind all of the bad feelings on this forum.

Kenwood,

I know your communications culture resembles a hermit crab, and it's probably related to the fact that your corporate offices are in Japan. But, c'mon, that's a reason, not an excuse.

All you'd have to do is announce to the board (via 3rd party, your preferred methodology) that, yes, there has been a delay, and you're working on it, and you do not have a firm release date yet. That's all we need to hear. Can you eek out of your shell and do this? Can you?

I know you're reading this, so I expect some results. You do not want to further alienate your core, evangelistic base of customers -- that doesn't make business sense.

I am referring to the fact that a company can totally diss their customers and you have no choice but to ask for more.

I can't think of any other product where you have no alternative if you are disastified.

It's just very aggravating.

I will be defecting to a Denon 2900 or 3800 or something for home soon. Enough is enough. Also I was putting a Kenwood KVT-915 in my car but they delayed that so I might go with Alpine instead.

well there is no mention of an entre like device, but sony's new dvd player does look interesting. wouldn't match my other equipment though. at least it shows somebody continues to improve their dvd jukeboxes. rumor is that it might cost $400.

http://www.agoraquest.com/article.php?sid=155

There is potential for hope! Kenwood told me today that the Entre software upgrade is late this week or early next! She also told me that all new 400 disc's are multi changer capable but she could not say exactly when the changer upgrade program might start....of course she did not give me an exact date on Entre software either....


I love you, The check is in the mail, Upgrade in April 2002, 2003......and on and on....... : - )

hmmm. crutchfield is listing only one sovereign product, the carousel dvd changer.

does anyone know if the entre has an hpna out so i can daisy chain another hpna device?

or can i split the phone jack and use two hpna devices of the same phone jack?

thxs.

And here's a little more info for what it's worth...

Per the Virginia Beach service center, all the upgrades will be done at the Cerritos service center. They are the only ones with the jig (sp?) machine that can do the upgrades. Per the Cerritos service center, they are waiting on the ok from Japan to do the upgrades. The last they heard was April nothing since. Once the upgrades are available, we will have to contact the Cerritos service center to get an appointment to send it in.

Slocko...You can split without issue. (I do not recall two ports on the back...I have not looked in a long time.)

thxs. David. I am sure a lot of people flew this thread once they saw your name on the email notification for this thread :) I know I did!!!

Don't worry....it is coming. Testing and all you know. But I will tell you this...The INFO BUTTON WORKS!!!!!! Yeah!!!! (Something I pushed hard for.)