I sent the following letter to Kenwood support:

I have the monitor out connected to my Lexicon. I'm still not able to hear any internet radio playing. Should I take the Entre back for a refund?

Loaded 37 DVD's tonight, only 7 were found. Guess who has to spend three hours trying to look up the 30 unknown disc? Me!

New problem, pressing the Entre select while on a DVD does nothing, I need to use the DV-5050 remote and point to the slot number and press play.

Only 4 lockups on the Entre tonight, am I the only one experiencing such bad reliability? I have a WIN2000 PC that I only boot once every three months for comparison.

The concept of a hub is great, the Entre doesn't come close to the marketing hype. Yes, I'm frustrated for buying so many Kenwood products that don't work. I thank you for listening, I would really thank you if Kenwood can fix this Entre.

WOW....Sorry you are having such issues for I am not having even close to those issues. Esp with not being able to select a DVD from the on-screen Entre menu. This is what it was made for and works very well.

What version of software is on your box? Press the setup button and look in the bottom right corner.

As far as "the Entre doesn't come close to the marketing hype. " I have top disagree with you for I find the Entre doing all that was stated except for the mutli changer support...But that is being worked on.

It was just a bad night. I still believe in the concept.

I am concerned that maybe my Entre is bad since I can't get the internet radio function to work. I wonder if there is some type of test I could run to isolate the problem. Maybe the Entre will function better if I use an RS232 connection instead of IR.

I am planning to have my Entre hooked up on my home network to get broadband (cable) access via the hub/router.

Q1: Is it possible to access the Entre' remotely from another computer on the same network, e.g. to work on the DVD profiles and composing playlists, etc. ? I hate the thought of having to edit profiles by using the remote control - I much rather sit at my desk and do this on my PC with a regular keyboard.

Q2: Is it possible to connect a keyboard directly to the Entre? If the remote access from another PC is not possible I would like to have an IR keyboard for the editing...

Q3: If remote access from other PC's on the same network is possible, would it also be possible to access/play the mp3 files stored on the Entre from remote PC's on the network?

Any experience or feedback on any of these questions would be very much appreciated. My Entre is due to be delivered next week...

Originally posted by Lars158
I am planning to have my Entre hooked up on my home network to get broadband (cable) access via the hub/router.

Q1: Is it possible to access the Entre' remotely from another computer on the same network, e.g. to work on the DVD profiles and composing playlists, etc. ? I hate the thought of having to edit profiles by using the remote control - I much rather sit at my desk and do this on my PC with a regular keyboard.

Q2: Is it possible to connect a keyboard directly to the Entre? If the remote access from another PC is not possible I would like to have an IR keyboard for the editing...

Q3: If remote access from other PC's on the same network is possible, would it also be possible to access/play the mp3 files stored on the Entre from remote PC's on the network?

Any experience or feedback on any of these questions would be very much appreciated. My Entre is due to be delivered next week...

As far as I can tell . . .No, no, and no.

Nick :cool:

This seems to be a problem. From what I read it is possible to hook up the DV5900M to a computer to do the editing on a PC (as well as download DVD information from the internet). So by adding the Entre you would actually limit the editing capability by not supporting a keyboard (included with the 5900M) and in addition not to have the ability to edit playlists etc on a regular PC...

What if I have the PC connected to the 5900M and modify the DVD profile information, download it to the 5900M - can I then upload the data to the Entre from the 5900M ??

You can't download anything from the Entre to the DV5900M. Nor can you upload anything from the 5900M to the Entre.

Ships in the night . . .

Nick :cool:

I am starting to think that maybe a better approach is to keep my HTPC as the hub and maintain the DVD/CD database for the 5900M on the PC....

The keyboard and the software are for the 5900 and not the Entre. The Entre can control the changer and thus all the on-screen data is from the Entra and not the 5900 when doing this.

More or less, if the database was working as it should, you would not have to type anything into the Entre for it should be looked up without issue. I only have 10 DVD's not found thus far...though I did have to do manual search for quite a few...but they were found. USE THE SERACH FUNCTION.

Originally posted by Lars158
I am starting to think that maybe a better approach is to keep my HTPC as the hub and maintain the DVD/CD database for the 5900M on the PC....


Sure...but what do you gain? You get no on screen display and no changer control. Ya, you can look up your DVD's or CD's on your PC...but then what? (Just wondering.)

Originally posted by Lars158
I am starting to think that maybe a better approach is to keep my HTPC as the hub and maintain the DVD/CD database for the 5900M on the PC....

Have I missed an event (seriously)? Last I knew, the "DVD Netnamer" software didn't work with DVDS. It only worked with CDs.

If that's still the case, then you can't even do what you're suggesting.

Nick :cool:

I have to agree with the person that wrote, "the unit does not live up to it's marketing hype".

* constant lock ups (guide scrolling, internet, music, and movies)

* DVD discs are incorrectly categorized (genre) and no way to edit

* discs that the unit will NOT recognize and will NOT allow
you to select (even with the "unknown disc")

* constantly having to manually search for a disc

* no ability to specify correct DVD cover art

* as previously stated, multi-changer control

* and the one problem which they did correct, the 1:45 stop

While I'm very glad that Kenwood & OpenGlobe were able to fix the 1:45 stop issue, I believe they still have a long way to go before I'd say that the unit "works".

Heroildo

* constant lock ups (guide scrolling, internet, music, and movies)

It is better than it was. I have not had one in quite awhile and when I do, it is Internet radio related with only Avent.

* DVD discs are incorrectly categorized (genre) and no way to edit

This can and should be corrected in a software update.

* discs that the unit will NOT recognize and will NOT allow you to select (even with the "unknown disc")

This I have not run into at all. Discs not found I can still play.

* constantly having to manually search for a disc

Database improvment needed and is being worked on. Hard to due with so many discs on the market and being released almost daily. The ratio to discs found vs not found can be improved, but was not to bad. Though I would like to see it do better.

* no ability to specify correct DVD cover art

Did not know this was part of the plan or even an option. I do not consider this a bug for where was it said you could? If you find a corver that is not right, have you contecgted OpenGlobe for a correction?

* as previously stated, multi-changer control

Yes...Being worked on.

* and the one problem which they did correct, the 1:45 stop

Yes they did...and so let items contiune to be improved. But all this does not have anything to do with hype in my opinion. I am very happy for what it does for me.

David,

I for one am glad that you do not appear to be experiencing the same frustrations with this unit. I only wish I could say the same. In my case,

* The lockups occur with the same frequency as always and I have seen absolutely no improvement. I find myself constantly rebooting the unit.

* There is an issue with discs that the unit will not recognize and then not allow you to play -- search for Lost World in this thread. I recently received an email from Kenwood which states, that they are aware of a problem where bonus discs are not being registered/recognized in the guide.

* The ability to specify correct DVD covert art and not to mention the rest of the disc information, seemed like something that should be there; if you can do it for Audio discs via Media Manager, why not DVD? But you're correct -- it was never clearly stated in their literature. Just like it was never clearly stated that NetNamer DV would work for DVD discs.

In my opinion, the unit does not work as advertised.


Heroildo

:)

Having more problems getting a post in here than I'm having with my changer at the moment! Sheesh...

Anyhow, after a few weeks of living with my 5900M, overall I'd have to say my thoughts and feelings are mixed. Note I don't have an Entre....

Good:

Great idea, excellent picture (though I'm only using the S-VHS outs, so no clue on the doubler, etc. yet), not to bad to use/navigate, the sound is good and my MP3's sound great.

Bad:

Auto start should be a toggle feature, not a 'always does this' and we call it a 'feature'. I happen to find it a pain in the arse.

Dissappointed that Kenwood didn't make the changer compaitable with their VR line (escpecially considering the price!). I have a VR-510 (not cheap in itself), and while I can control the basic function via the IR repeater hookup, I still miss having 'full feature' control and download of track/title info to my remote.

Have had it freeze on a frame on a few occassions, somewhat randomly. Usually on a rental disc, but not always.

Still think it's silly that MP-3s only come out the analog outs. Wastes an inbound on my reciever. Feh.

Wish someone would fix the silly bug on the front panel when the word READING scrolls onto the display, and the first letter doesn't go far enough to the left on the first try. Instead you get RE and then it has to shift over. Silly, and gives the whole think a 'betaware' feel.

And I think they should have/could have put some more thought into the OSD. Why can't I see the track/title/artist info on the OSD??? I can see it in the search window.

Think that's all for now....

David, from my understanding it is possible to download the information from the PC to the 5900M, thus you can control the player directly with the remote having with all titles etc on the LCD. But you are right, it's of course much nicer to have all the cover arts and misc information on the big screen.

I hope that someone will develop a PC program that can control the 5900M and other changers such as the Sony's, all from one interface, with the disc data in one common database. I am today using the CDJ (a PC application) to controll my CD's in Sony Mega Changers. The CDJ also have automatic CD detection and automatic download (via CDDB) of cover arts, composition of playlists and so on. The main reason I ordered the Entre was to get the same GUI for my DVD collection. I will now probably go ahead and sell my Sony changer and replace it with a 5050M for the CD's, but then again the Entre can not handle more than one changer as it stands today...

Based on your information David I feel comfortable that the Entre will be able to get the DVD information either via automatic detection or by searching manually, with no typing required (others seems to have a different experience). And with the assumtion that multiple Changer support will come down the road the Entre will be great unit to own. I am looking forward to hook it up next week!

fireboy,

Your points are clear and unfortunately, a subset of the UI issues plaguing this unit. I would love to see the 5900M owners on this board organize to lobby Kenwood to release a firmware fix for the 5900M versus releasing a 5950M changer that address these very obvious UI mistakes.

I think that since Kenwood is trying to establish itself at the higher end with the Sovereign line, it would absolutely behoove them to take care of their earlier customers with a a firmware fix and make us "raving fans" versus "barely satisfied customers." Kenwood's Sovereign line has a lot to overcome as it is -- it's new, it's got Kenwood (pedestrian brand) on the sticker. They do not need further "buzz" that their foray into high-end was unfinished, unsupported business.

Kenwood, wouldn't you rather have all of us 5900M owners so estatic with your product that we'd each sell 5 more to fellow enthusiasts in our sphere of influence? You KNOW we have friends with the same interests and similar incomes. If you take care of us, we WILL take care of you and make the Sovereign line a real player in the mid/hi-fi arena.

Anyone have ideas on how to organize around getting ourselves an upgrade from Kenwood? The changer is GREAT -- it just has some real goofs that make it a compromise. And you hate to have to compromise on a $1800 list price unit.

It looks like for sure the next generation entre will control 3 changers. Someone else probably wrote about it but thought being a new guy I would try to contribute something, now if someone would only contribute to my first thread ever in crt forum, wishful thinking I guess.

"next generation entre"

Where did you get this information. The current one will as soon as they comeout with the interface.

From my Kenwood corporate rep, our store or actually all 45 are just going to begin marketing sovereign in our product lineup. Since you saw this post maybe you can help me get some answers tro my ?'s in the crt forum=)

"next generation entre"
"From my Kenwood corporate rep"

Now this is totally news to me seeing that the Entre really just came out. If this was the case, I would think your store would not want the current lineup until the new one came out.

This to me makes no sense seeing Kenwood is working on an interface for the current unit to control more than one changer.

BTW...The issue was not with the Entre alone...but also with the changers because the changers only have one RS232 port and no passthrough port so you can link units.

Whos your rep? Would love to talk with him.


(BTW...As far as your CRT post...It seems to me you bought something you really did no research on...thus I think this is why no one is really responding I am sorry to say. :()

Next generation, huh?

Your corporate rep say what Kenwood intends to do about this generation?

Nick :cool:

What a friendly forum, try to give an insight to something i heard and alls I can say is wow. I think I can show my self the door.

kman i think you misread our comments. we are all a bit frustrated by kenwood, not you. if kenwood is about to release a better entre than what these guys currently have, they will have a reason to be displeased.

please do continue to contribute.

dsmark found an advanced code that takes you directly to the visual osd display where you can turn off subtitles. do a search on 5900 and it's the thread about the 5900 without the entre. he lists the hex code there.

Do, stay Kman. In order to get the real flavor for some of these comments, you would have had to read the entirety of this thread, and an earlier one that I started on the attributes of the 5900.

To sum it up, it goes like this: Apart from the numerous glitches with the Entre/5900, which Kenwood and OpenGlobe have been working on, there was one issue which has had my goat from day one: After buying two changers, the Entre, and selling off my older Pioneer changers, learning that the Entre did not do anything with more than one changer. I was furious, because there's no getting around the fact that that's what they advertised, and I grew even more contemptuous when I got a number of denials from Kenwood that they'd ever said it, and I would simply tell them to read their own website.

There have been a variety of explanations for this, and, depending on your vantage point, you really have to judge for yourself whether they've been good ones. The best news on the subject has been what David Bott says, i.e., the hardware fix is "in the works." Keep in mind that, when the issue first got uncovered, the first retort from Kenwood was something like "90 days." The time kept getting pushed back, and now all they'll say is that they're working on it, with no real commitment as to when. Translated, that means they have the best intentions, but there are no guarantees. To me, that's a big "Maybe."

Well, in the midst of all this reassurance and certainty (gasp!--choke!--calling Heimlich!!), you posted that Kenwood's corporate representative said something about a next generation, which, by definition, implies a former generation. Guess who that is?

Now, I've probably been guilty of slamming Kenwood too much for this, but David will later turn out guiltier if Kenwood doesn't make good, because he's been preaching the forgiveness/give them time gospel. In the end, we're all after the same thing, which is a really cool product. And, despite my qualms about the Entre, I don't want to be without it. Oh, if they don't get the problem solved, they'll owe us something--money, products, whatever, because that's what we thought we were purchasing; but the good still outweighs the bad.

So, you thought you were just passing on friendly information. Wear shoes in this snake pit, KMan (just kidding--or am I?). In any event, don't go away, don't think we're unfriendly, and give us the name, phone number, and home address of that Kenwood representative, so, depending on how things wind up, we can either send him gifts or egg his house.

Nick :cool:

Nick..Great Sum Up!

And I will say...if the changer controler does not happen for whatever reason...I will be the one that will be totally ticked off unless they replace our units with the "new" units.

I will try to keep everyone up to date, and believe me I understand the bitterness, the reason I am going through this thread is so I can understand tHe hurdles going forward with this product and not mislead my customers in anyway as our store is backing this in a major way. I'm not sure of many other large retail electronics stores supporting this line?

Just remember this, as you keep us posted: Kenwood has been NOTORIOUS through this whole Odyssey of telling different things to different people. That's not necessarily being duplicitous: It's usually not the same person doing the talking, but Kenwood has a plague-like version of left hands being surprised that right hands even exist.

So, yes, I was interested when you said something about your corporate representative, but hang out with the hard-cores on this thread for awhile, and you will find your representative exhibiting the symptoms of terminal doublespeak. The real dilemma of it is that he or she may actually believe what is being said. Study this thread, particularly the questions that have been asked a number of times over, and you're going to win every version of Who-Can-Stump-The-Kenwood-Representative at work.

Nonetheless, do keep us posted. And, just remember, if people articulate skepticism, it's not being directed at you.

Nick :cool:

I definetely will hang around this thread to keep up to date, i will say this the represenative I have been hearing this from is pretty high up on the food chain. But I to always take everything he says with a grain of salt.

Internet radio and lock ups problems are the fault of my cable modem, so says my retailer.

Havn't heard from Kenwood so I called the store I bought my Entre from and they state there is a problem with the modem my ISP supplied and I need to upgrade my modem. This area just switched to Comcast cable and I have a 2 year old Tosihba modem, they said I need the new Motorola modem. I'll contact Comcast about this modem.

Does the Entre support both 4:3 and 16:9 aspect ratios ?

Thanks, /Lars
Plano, TX

As far as the cobble modem being the issue...

I would love to know where this store got that information. I say this because several of us have this issue from time to time and 10 to 1 we all do not use the same cable modem or even DSL for that matter. Do you have lockups with other Internet based items?



Lars158: Not sure what your question is referring to. Does it pass-though 4:3 and 16:9? Yes. Is the on screen menus has the option of 4:3 vs 16:9...no. But I run it 16:9 on two displays and it really is not any issue. Hope this helps.

Thanks, I was referring to the Entre OSD. I agree it's possible to live with a 4:3 output on a 16:9 screen, but of course my preference would be to have a 16:9 output option for the OSD.

David, I am interested to hear about your 2 screen setup with the Entre. Is it a multi room setup? Do you have one output via the component and one via s-video?

Re: PC control of playlist
Someone asked about this (well it seemed this as part of what they asked about)...you can create/maintain your audio playlist (cd/mp3) from the internet. It is weak and limited but it is there. https://www.openglobe.net/kenwood .

Re: lockups
I'm happy to say I don't remember specifically having a lockup traversing the menus or doing the internet radio. I may have but if so I don't remember at this moment. Keep in mind that I have never used NetNamer or have done anything unique with mine (Entre connected to 5900 connected with Denon 5800 rec). I download updates regularly and use internet/ethernet cable access. (p.s. wait...someone asked me once in a thread I think if I used NetNamer and I didn't respond...I think...sorry)

Axcess
Have others got this and I missed it. Perhaps David did as I saw a post where he mentioned avent or some such thing. David we know how you like 'word puzzles' so I'm guessing you have the 'axcess'

David's Kenwood gospel
Actually I like it. I like his positive attitude, his enthusiasm and his "relationship" with Kenwood. Actually, I think there have been some fantastic exchanges about the good and the bad of the 'situation' and I agree whole-heartedly. Many hardcore long timers to this are making excellent contributions from all perspectives. I hope Kenwood can fix the several of the issues that are coming up and improve the Entre' even beyond the "problems" we are seeing.

1.0.1.1 release improvements
Aside from the 1:45 thing, there was supposed to be some grand bio and DVD information improvement thing. I have not gone back numerous threads where David held someones hand to that new feature. Heck, it seemed I should be able to just find it without even looking that hard. I haven't yet. Mostly for Brian (kenwood mgr) purpose...can you get that tip/improvement site up or put a "what's new" in the menu system or something. Throw us a bone please...please...we are seeing mirages and we are dying here. Like an the excellent previous post...we'd think you guys would be trying pretty hard to please us "loyal" new-customers as we have friends (internet and personal) who may want to buy something.

Kenwood Entre website changed!!!
Oh my...either I'm hallucinating....or on the Entré spec site (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2357&productLineId=2) they have removed the references to the DV5900/DV5050 DVD players in the left hand area "Like what you see? You're sure to enjoy these too:". They don't even mention specifics in the text or have a hyperlink to them just basic text. Oversite? So they are discouraging people of connecting the two <grin/frown> Update: ... I looked again and it is there...my bad...what actually looks like is happening is that they only show 4 items so it changes everytime you go there...doh!

Thanks all for your great past threads.

Lars158...

I use the Entre/5900 setup for both my theater an whole house distribution. The Component Out feeds the theater and the S-Video and Composite feeds the rest of the home though a distribution block.

The S-Video runs 70 feet to the family room on a Better Cables Silver Serpent cable. Then it feeds into a Kenwood 5090 receiver and then out via Component to the Sony 57" XBR2. The S-Video from the receive feeds a 24" Sony Vega in the spa room. Note that this setup means that any source I have on in the family room is also feed into the spa room. This is fine for the room are side by side and it is only my wife and I in the home so muti source is not an issue.

The composite out of the Entre feeds the back rooms in the home. Office, master bedroom, and guest/reading room.

Setting up like this allows us to select a DVD (or AUDIO) from the Entre and feed it into any room or multi rooms. Yes, the same source is feed into all rooms. Like I said, it is just us so not a problem. This is one of the reasons I wanted the Entre and 5900, for all the on screen display of the media items we use.

Hope this helps.

Popular Mechanics Design and Engineering award

Perhaps I missed this being mentioned...did you guys see this? I saw the icon/plaque for it when I visited the Entre site earlier. Strange irony that the reviewer only mentions MP3/CDs <grin>.
PM D and E Award (http://popularmechanics.com/science/research/2001/11/2002_design_and_engineering_awards/index3.phtml)
.

Scott... (what, having trouble speaking or reading Bottinese. :))

From what I know the Axcess is not out yet and I am waiting to see if I can get on a list to get an advance unit so I can report back about it. No such luck as of yet I am sorry to say.

The other post I made was that OpenGlode is now partnering with "Sirius Satellite" for Internet audio. That is great news! I called it Avent when I should have said Sirius Satellite. (opps)

As far as the DVD Information...I am not sure what you are looking for. If you mean the movie information itself, it is their, but to read it you must go into the EDIT mode when you are on that movie. This information was suppose to be displayable using the INFO button to toggle the display back and fourth. For some reason it was removed. However, all is not yet lost for when they release the new Movie Database to the Entre (via OpenGlobe service), you will be able to see all kinds of information and cross reference that information in the database right from the Entre. They have done this now with the Music library to some extent.

I put in my .02 at CES and said they should consider making the INFO button auto jump you into the OpenGlobe Movie database for the movie you currently have highlighted. I hope they do this.

David,

bottinese
Thanks for the replies. I did try this look up http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=Bottinese but no luck so I suppose it is some more bottinese :D . Honestly I realize you must be involved in hundreds of post a day so I do cut you some slack (well in my mind but I like give you a hard time verbally...ya know I haven't forgiven you for misleading us about the ethernet adapter thing :eek: :p )

Sirius Satellite internet radio
Thanks for the claification. To be frank, I thought their internet radio was/is pretty bad. Sometimes just having the station letters. At least it is 'categorized'. I suppose it has a lot who they are partnering with and what 'feeds' they are given. I'm sure the developers are not to happy about it either. I suppose they use/see MS Media Player or the like and see what the potential is. Related to Axcess...I was sure that someone mentioned that it was becoming available in an earlier post so I was thinking you may have gotten one of the first ones...thus why I jumped to that conclusion.

INFO button
I do recall that DVD info is available in the EDIT mode and not displayed in using-the-product-mode :confused: which is what is/was shown in the crutchfield sites pictures (mislead again<g>). No doubt it was yanked for some technical reason but oddly is still available in EDIT mode. I recall in a way earlier post when hadn't read the manual (heck couldn't find it...doh! (Tom B clued me as I recall))....that as I was just using the product I was really confused what the INFO button was for as it wasn't intuitive. It would seem natural/obvious to make the 'info' button provide additional info like you/I/others suggested. What is 'there' and what I must have read was related to the CD info.

BTW, thanks for the review of your setup to Lars158. It was interesting...of course I have two RG6s going to each room so I'll have to figure out something.

"bottinese"...a play on words. My last name is Bott. :D (Unless you were kidding.)

Originally posted by David Bott
"bottinese"...a play on words. My last name is Bott. :D (Unless you were kidding.)

Plus, it sounds better than Bottulism :D

Hey, wait - you guys can't carry me out of here...get your hands off me! Don't you know I designed the network adapter used by the Entre'? LET ME GO!!! HELP!!!

<Dragged off by forum police>

P.S. Don't rip more than 8 CDs at a time without letting the Entre' background encode them...I've been doing 8 at a time for a while without a problem, but tried 10 today. The Entre' hung during encoding, and would hang minutes after multiple reboots until I deleted the ripped but still unencoded CDs.

David, thanks for the info on your configuration. Pretty impressive newtork using all video outputs from the Entre. How did you handle the audio connections to the other rooms??

My plan is to use the component out for my DLP projector in the dedicated home theater (110 inch 16:9 screen) and use the composite out for our family room TV (36 inch 4:3). The s-video out will go to our bedroom's RPTV (57 inch 16:9).

The main issues I have with setup are the following:

1) I need a 150 feet s-video cable from the Ente to our bedroom. My concern is that this will degrade the video signal leading to a significant loss in picture quality. The other problem is to have the same length digital audio cable (coax), which I am not sure is possible...
2) How to get digital audio out to all three rooms? As far as I understand there is only one digital out (optical) from the Entre. Is there something like a "optical to multiple coax" converter box??? I am sure there is but probably very expensive...
3) How to control the Entre from all rooms. How strong is the VR-5900 RF remote? I was hoping it will go through all rooms in the house, but I understand from a few reviews that at best it will go through one wall.

Any ideas/tips on these issues ?

Lars158,

Wow.......150 feet of S-Video cable! Un-amplified (un-boosted) S-Video starts to degrade after 10-12 feet.

You had better use an S-Video line amplifier and good quality cables for a run as long as you need. You probably shouldn't run composite cabling past 10-12 feet without amplification, either.

Several companies produce video line amplifiers. I have an Inline S-Video amplifier and Camelot makes a great one too.

Considering the superb images produced by the Denon 5900 and 5700 DVD players, great care should also be paid to the video signal path outside the player so attenuation, Y/C delay/mismatch, and/or component delay/mismatch are not introduced.

thought you guys might find this of interest.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=114664&highlight=5900

Nick,

That was an excellent summary. I was/am in practically the EXACT same situation as you - migrated from Pioneer changer to Kenwoods, only to find out that not only was the interface practically useless but I couldn't even perform the most basic of functions - having my whole DVD collection in one place, available on demand.

Fortunately for me I stumbled on this group (after many frustrating conversations with Kenwood) before my money-back return timeframe expired. If they do get the bugs ironed out though, I will be first in line to re-buy everything though!

I guess time will tell if Kenwood is serious about the upper-middle market segment, or if I will be running to "CD binders" everytime I want to watch a movie until Pioneer or somebody else comes out with a solution.

Anyway, great forum, great post. Thanks.


Mike

Hi Mike...Welcome to the site...

You had said "...only to find out that not only was the interface practically useless..."

Might I ask what interface you are referring to. For you did not mention using the Entre and if you were, then I have to disagree for the Entre to changer for selection works fine.

If you were not using the Entre, then you can connect up to 3 changers together. (Though I personally do not like their on screen selection method.)

Just looking for what you meant.

Just a note my rep had asked for a link to this segement, not that it makes much difference but it has now been forwarded to him and our corporate office/buyers

Kman1011...So you know...Their is NO new version of the Entre on the way. Spoke with Kenwood last night and this is their current line for quite some time to come.

They would also love to know who this rep was that was saying their was new product coming out. :D

>You had said "...only to find out that not only was the interface >practically useless..."

>Might I ask what interface you are referring to. For you did not >mention using the Entre and if you were, then I have to >disagree for the Entre to changer for selection works fine.

I was referring to the interface of the changer itself (I had two DV-5050Ms, connected together). I was in fact in the midst of ordering the Entre, thinking it would make the system usable, when I stumbled on this forum.

>If you were not using the Entre, then you can connect up to 3 >changers together. (Though I personally do not like their on >screen selection method.)

Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of usable. To me, "usable" is pretty basic - the user should be able to press a button on my ProntoPro and view onscreen a list of all the movies in the library. I am willing to do whatever behind-the-scenes tricks are necessary to make that happen.

But no such luck. To perform the above task, the user would have to either: (1) Know which DVD was in which changer, or (2) Scroll through multiple lists from top to bottom. Absolutely ridiculous. There are a million other "stupid" things about the interface (no sorting, no simple disc-number entry, etc) too but all would be forgiven if I could just accomplish the above.

You should've seen the look on my wife's face when I told her that, almost $2,000 later, she had less functionality than with our (albeit non-progressive) Pioneer DV-F727. Pretty funny actually.

I'm perfectly willing to buy the Entre to solve the interface situation, but alas, despite claims on their site to the contrary it only controls one changer. Add to that the fact that the picture was absolutely horrible from the "slave" unit when in progressive mode and I'd had enough (i'm sure that last one just means one of them had bad pass-through hardware and a replacement would've fixed it).

Yes, I am aware that they are working on the multi-control issue. But unfortunately they would give me absolutely no commitment as to the timeframe, method, or even existence of the eventual fix. It's also a little irksome that to get what is to me basic functionality I will need to buy not only changers but another device (the Entre) which, for me, is way overkill. I already have a PC-based IP music system throughout my house so the non-DVD functions of the Entre are wasted on me.

Like I said though, if they get the bugs worked out I'll shell out the cash. Fortunately we have folks like you to monitor them for us.


Mike

Originally posted by mdownard
Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of usable. To me, "usable" is pretty basic - the user should be able to press a button on my ProntoPro and view onscreen a list of all the movies in the library. I am willing to do whatever behind-the-scenes tricks are necessary to make that happen.

But no such luck. To perform the above task, the user would have to either: (1) Know which DVD was in which changer, or (2) Scroll through multiple lists from top to bottom. Absolutely ridiculous. There are a million other "stupid" things about the interface (no sorting, no simple disc-number entry, etc) too but all would be forgiven if I could just accomplish the above.

Mike

Mike,

Here is the macro that will perform the above scenario using the Pronto and DV-5900M:

Pre-work:
- Define a USER FILE as "Movies"
- Assign all movies in changer to User File above
- Label all movie discs (via NetNamerDV or manually using keyboard)

Macro:
1. Press LIBRARY
2. Press DOWN ARROW
3. Press ENTER
4. Press DOWN ARROW number of times until user file "Movies" is selected (on mine, Movies is user file2, so I hit the down arrow ONCE)
5. Press ENTER

DONE! You now have a filtered list of all the movies in your changer, by name, in disc slot order. At this point, you can scroll down one by one, or screen by screen. Or, you can even do a key-letter search WITHIN this filtered list!

Jon:

I tried a similar macro and failed. I then got frustrated and gave up. But I have some similar experiences to Mike, and he has definite points.

First, consider the following. The Pioneer DV-F727 is several years old. It was the second mega-disc changer to be released, following the Sony 850 by just a few months. The F727 had a menu button, and all you did was press it. Up popped a real menu list of discs to point and click on.

Now, perhaps your macro actually does work, although it seems to me that it will only work with the player in a paticular starting position. I might be wrong, and I hope I am, but my real point is that you had to perform precarious acrobatics in order to get the Kenwood to sea level with the now-ancient Pioneer. This is just crazy. The name of the game is simplicity, not some byzantine puzzle.

In fact, I had worked out a macro that would work on my Pioneer (had two of them) that would work from any point in the player. With my ProntoPro, I had downloaded cover art and made each disc jacket cover art the macro button to summon that disc. Even if I wanted to, I don't believe I could do that with the Kenwoods.

Thus, while I am enamored of the possibilities of the Entre, and some of the things it really does offer, let's not forget that the Entre/DV-5900M/DV-5050M are really part of a larger scheme. Even on its best day, the Entre controlling the DVD changer is still clumsy to manipulate (two remotes), and is limited by the options it doesn't have (such as the aforementioned menu on the DVD changer).

But, such is the fare of the early adopter. We're doing the right thing by keeping the discussion going, and I exhort everyone to keep it constructive. But that doesn't mean refraining from criticism. In fact, some times it means conceding the limitations of the Entre/DVD Changer, and expressing dissatisfaction with it. It won't get better if we're only praising it.

In fact, the Entre/DV-5900M is probably the most controversial electronic product I've ever encountered. Yes, the good still outweighs the bad, but I've never seen any one consumer A/V product that deserves as much praise and as much condemnation at the same time.

Nick :cool:

I also wish they would hurry up and fix a few problems.

1st. - I would like to add a second unit. One for music and one for movies. And if needed I would add a third if possible. This is a loss on their part. If it worked right now they would have an extra 1500. in their pocket.(maybe they could have the second serial port control the second changer if you don't have it connected to the receiver)

2nd. - I wish they would fix it so that you can control the menus on DVD's with the entre remote. I am sick of switching back and forth.

3rd. - It would be nice if you could turn one on/off and have the other turn on/off with out having to do it manually.( even if u can work around this with the pronto)

4th. - I wish the data base for movies would be faster in getting up to speed. Although this slowly happening.

5th. - I would like for the info button to work.

Carbo,

isn't also number 2 on your list possible to address with a universal remote such a the PRONTO ?? or even with the IR/RF remote that comes witht he VR-5900 ?? I am not sure I understand this problem...

/Lars
Plano, TX

[QUOTE]Originally posted by JonDeutsch


Mike,

Here is the macro that will perform the above scenario using the Pronto and DV-5900M: <SNIP>

--> Right, but unless I am mistaken that only works with ONE changer. I had two and would have needed three eventually. Thanks though.


Mike[B]After posting I remembered...

The other problem with your scenario is that a user file can only hold a limited number of titles. I confirmed this with Kenwood. So even if it worked, the user file wouldn't be big enough to store all the titles I had. Argh.

I haven't forgotten about this list. Currently working with Kenwood on my connection problems. Will report back on status when progress is visible. Kenwood rep has been very helpful.

at least the 5900 is menus come up at the same predefine point every single time. None of them remember their last position. This makes it easier to program macros.

The pioneer remembered it's last position so that made it unneccesary to create macros since if you used one category the most, it would come up in that category most of the time.

inputting the dvd titles manually is not too bad since you can use the osd. what is a pain in the butt is assigning them to userfiles and renaming the userfiles. you are forced to use that stupid screen on the unit when you could be using the beautiful osd on the tv. that is very frustrating. i set up 8 userfiles, comedy, action, etc, etc. and assigned all my dvds to them. i now have replicated the functionality of the pioneer osd, but it was a lot of work getting there.

i don't know if you daisy change them if you can assign dvds across changers to user files. i hope so.

what is the limit per user file? still on the fence on buying the entre.

Originally posted by slocko
i don't know if you daisy change them if you can assign dvds across changers to user files. i hope so.

what is the limit per user file? still on the fence on buying the entre.

I don't recall the limit per user file, but I can tell you that if you daisy chain you cannot mix and match lists. In other words you could not add a disc from changer 1 to a userfile in changer 0.

The only caveat in my answer is that I was using two DV-5050m, I suppose there is a very small possibility that the DV-5900m would be different.


Mike

From Kenwood rep:
#3-Check your software version. We are now on 1.0.2.0. If the problems persist during normal operation, let me know what types of operations that are being performed when the Entre' freezes up.
Thanks and as always let me know the out come of this.

Does anyone have this release level yet?

I have not experienced a limit on # of discs per user file. I have about 330 discs in my 5900M to-date.

Nick, I think you can guarantee a beginning state on the Kenwood, though, I'd have to research and report back the exact macro.

I want to double-check this, but I want to report that when I turned on my 5900M and hit the Library button while the unit was doing its scan, the unit did NOT automatically play the last disc!

Again, I do not want to confirm this "feature," but it may be something people want to look into who hate the "autoplay" bug in this unit.

Jon,

any menu you bring up on the kenwood always begins on the same spot. you can't change that behavior. it doesn't remember the last position. every time you hit library it brings you to the main screen. so creating macros should not be a problem.

it might make sense what you are saying about autoplay since you can't bring up the library while a disc is playing. it would sort of follow that if the libray menu is up, a disc can't be playing.


Originally posted by JonDeutsch

Nick, I think you can guarantee a beginning state on the Kenwood, though, I'd have to research and report back the exact macro.

I want to double-check this, but I want to report that when I turned on my 5900M and hit the Library button while the unit was doing its scan, the unit did NOT automatically play the last disc!

Again, I do not want to confirm this "feature," but it may be something people want to look into who hate the "autoplay" bug in this unit.

Slocko,

That's kind of what I was saying -- because the Kenwood has "predictable" starting points, Nick should be able to create a fail-safe macro from any state his changer is in. Granted, there may be many macro steps to get to this known state, but I think it's entirely possible.

For instance, clicking LIBRARY does not always bring up the Library (for instance, when a disc is playing). But, a LIBRARY button with the macro:

1. STOP
2. LIBRARY

Would help guarantee that no matter what state the unit is in (other than OFF), you would get the library screen. From there, you can reliably get to any user file or do a search programatically.

I know this is off the beaten path, I apologize.
I am very interested in buying the Entre with a 5050M changer. I have followed this thread and am aware of the current issues.
Well, I was at Tweeter the other day, playing around with the Entre, and noticed that there was a button on the remote for "Web" (don't remember if it said Web exactly) and "Email". When I pressed these buttons, the display would tell me that these features are not yet available. I would assume that the "Web" button would allow for Web browsing and "Email" would take you to some email client (the salesman said that's what they did after I asked). I had never seen these features mentioned before. Is my information correct, and if so, has Kenwood given any timeframe as to when they bring them online?
Just curious.
Thanks.

This is not Kenwood, but OpenGlobe that would bring you those features. I have not heard anything yet in regards to them coming on-line.

I myself would have no use at all for such items for it would be very slow in input URL's or even e-mails. Not to mention, their is only so much you can do an a system that has standard graphics. Reminds me of the old WebTV interface. Take a look at using the OpenGlobe button...that would more or less be the web interface for that is the web browser for the most part.

aaunno mentioned something about a new release of the Entre software ("Entre Software level 1.0.2.0"), does anyone have this version of the software?

I've tried forcing an update and I'm still at the old release.

Heroildo

interesting....I asked for the undate and it sent one. After it was done it still reads the same as it did before. Something came down though.

Kenwood has decided to replace my Entre. They have two areas of concern:

1) Comcast - A lot of problems during the transition from Mediaone.

2) Lexicon MC-1 processor - some type of known problem with Lexicons' lastest firmware release

It is my understanding a Kenwood rep is checking his schedule on when he can come to Ann Arbor with the replacement.

David,

It's really strange, my Entre has been behaving this way since I went to 1.0.1.1 -- It ALWAYS finds an update, installs the update, reboots -- but then nothing .... The software version is always the same.

Strange!

Heroildo

Well, I just received my set of Kenwood Entre, DV-5900M, VR-5900 and MX-5000. I hooked everything up and then... nothing! The Entre standby indicator started to flash, so I waited, and waited. I re-booted the Entre by holding in the power botton a few seconds and then I waited again... I even unplugged Entre's power cord to see if it needed a cold start, but nothing. The standby light just continued to flash. The manual said it can take long time the first time when staring the Entre, so I let it continue to flash through the night. When I woke up and checked on the Entre this morning it was still flashing... What's going on ??? Do I have a defective unit ??

Any ideas on what's going on would be appreciated....

Thanks,

Keep trying the reboot. That will get it there eventually. If you still get the flashing light after fifteen minutes, press the power button, wait for the whirring sound, and then release again (that's the reboot procedure).

It's finicky, but I'll bet it works.

Nick :cool:

Nicholas, thanks for the advice!! However, I tried to reboot a number of times and then started to look at other options. After some experimenting I found out that the USB-Ethernet converter I had hooked to the Entre was not compatible. This caused the Entre not to boot up... Once I removed my LinkSys USB converter the Entre started up. Now I just need to find a compatible USB-Ethernet converter - todays task! I heard OfficeMax sell the Belkin model #F5D5050. Kenwood only have the discontinued Belkin #F5U111 listed as compatible. Since model# F5D5050 is the replacement from Belkin I am hoping it would work as well. Any one know about this ?? It's too bad Kenwood didn't design Entre to be used with a more common converter such as the LinkSys you can get at BestBuy or CompUSA...

Sorry to say don't waist your time...It will not work. :( It uses a different chipset. You need the one that they offer.

Guys,

I have been following this post for a while. I just received my Entre, DV-5900M and VR-5700 receiver. I want to do a similar set-up to the way David described his, with house wide distribution of the Entre so I can select media from multiple rooms. I have several questions. If I follow the set-up suggested by Kenwood for an all Sovereign system, I will pass my video from the DVD into the receiver and then into the Entre. I know the VR-5700 does not have OSD, so the video pass-thru there is probably pretty clean. The Entre, however, is an OSD by its very nature, and I'm worried passing DVD video thru it will hurt the picture. I have a complicated system. I have two Extron pro-video matrix switchers (one is Y/C and one is component/ RGB) so I can send very high quality video to multiple rooms. I was thinking of connecting the progressive component output of the DV-5900 DVD directly to my projector (it is my only component display) to keep the DVD video clean and then connecting the Y/C to the Entre and then Y/C out of the Entre to the Extron switcher so I can send it to other rooms. Do you feel the Entre degrades the video signal? I have a 29" monitor mounted in the wall next to my projection screen (think picture outside of picture) in the theater, so I could use that to control the Entre in that room and when it starts playing a DVD I select via its menus, it will appear on the big screen (progressive component) without passing thru the Entre. Does this make sense? Can anyone see any problems with this approach? Are all outputs of the Entre active at once, or does it output only the type of signal that is input? (in other words, if I connect a composite output from the Entre, will it send out an OSD signal even if there is nothing connected to the composite input on the Entre?) Any advice would be appreciated. My brain hurts. Thanks

Originally posted by mdownard
>
Well, I suppose it depends on your definition of usable. To me, "usable" is pretty basic - the user should be able to press a button on my ProntoPro and view onscreen a list of all the movies in the library. I am willing to do whatever behind-the-scenes tricks are necessary to make that happen.

But no such luck. To perform the above task, the user would have to either: (1) Know which DVD was in which changer, or (2) Scroll through multiple lists from top to bottom. Absolutely ridiculous. There are a million other "stupid" things about the interface (no sorting, no simple disc-number entry, etc) too but all would be forgiven if I could just accomplish the above.

You should've seen the look on my wife's face when I told her that, almost $2,000 later, she had less functionality than with our (albeit non-progressive) Pioneer DV-F727. Pretty funny actually.


I will point out that I am in the EXACT same situation. My pronto and Pioneer changer combo allows me to view all the titles and artists on screen (even in sub-catagories) in alphabetical order. and scroll through them to pick what I want. Furthermore, discs can have customized settings that are remembered -- over-riding the changer defaults, and I can enter title text that over-rides the DVD text if present. This all makes for a highly usable, and highly WAF setup. Sure I don't have progressive scan, MP3s, or cover art -- the reasons I was considering an upgrade to the Kenwood, but those features are not worth the loss of these existing features.

I was extremely sadden to see these simple, useful features mishandled by Kenwood. I'll buy the Kenwood if they fix all this, or their competitor, whichever occurs first. Until I can have on-screen, alphabetical lists of the movies in catagories I define, it's not worth the loss of the user-friendliness. I'll just have to drool over the idea of 400 discs + flipper + progressive a while longer.

BTW -- With the pinoeer, I also do the multiple output to multiple room distribution. Works fine.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
That's kind of what I was saying -- because the Kenwood has "predictable" starting points, Nick should be able to create a fail-safe macro from any state his changer is in.


While the Pioneer "remembers" states, it is very easy to place it into a fixed, predictable state for macros. Just do something like a "scan", wait about 1 sec, then STOP STOP. It will be in a fixed state.

My macros are very complex (I use all the catagories), and never fail.

Not sure what exactly is it that you do with the pioneer that you think you can't do with the native kenwood gui.

You can set up categories just like the pioneer. You get 8 user defined categories. You can create a macro that hits stop, library, down one, enter and you will be in the category gui. If you want macros to take you to each category then you will just count the number of down arrows for each category followed by enter.

If you want all your dvds listed, there is an "all userlist". This displays all your dvds. You can then create macros for each letter that search on that letter.

So you can create a search macro for "letter a" that brings up all the dvds that begin with the letter "A" within the "all userlist".

About the only thing that the Pioneer has over the Kenwood gui is speed and that you can bring it up while a movie is playing. I also like that it remembers the last state you were in. The speed is acceptable and it's only a little slower than the pioneer.

Like Nick mentioned in one of the prior threads, there is nothing on the horizon for a progressive mega changer. Now that I have seen how awesome the picture is, I am glad that I pulled the trigger when I did. I had initial regrets, but now I am very happy with the 5900m.

Originally posted by kbarrett


Until I can have on-screen, alphabetical lists of the movies in catagories I define, it's not worth the loss of the user-friendliness. I'll just have to drool over the idea of 400 discs + flipper + progressive a while longer.

BTW -- With the pinoeer, I also do the multiple output to multiple room distribution. Works fine.

Just to give an update on the problem I reported earlier with the Entre not booting up etc. Yesterday I bought a Ethernet to Home PNA converter, so I now have my whole house ready for the Axess when it's out... And when hooking up the Entre to the phone line everything works beautifully !! By using the PNA I still have full internet speed over my cable modem, so I am now glad I went this route instead of buying the Ethernet-USB converter.

I tried some of the preloaded MP3 music files and a few radio stations, and I was amazed and impressed over the great GUI and integration of the Entre and the VR-5900. Great sound and a big improvement from my old Onkyo 777. I then loaded a few DVD's into the DV-5900M (Bruce Springsteen Live in NY and the 5'th Element). The Entre was able to identify these DVD's with no problem. I selected one of the Bruce DVD's and WOW the sound and picture was GREAT. And again, the DVD player is perfectly integrated with the Entre hub using the VR-5900 remote. I only had an hour to play around yesterday night, but so far I am very impressed and pleased with the system. Better than expected after all the issues I have read about on this forum. This weekend I am planning to get the surround back speakers hooked up to the MX-5000 and try out the features in more detail. I will also hook up my second room next to the home theater with an S-video connection on our regular 36" TV.

So far so good...

Has anyone else be able to confirm JonDeutsch's experience of being able to prevent the auto play last disk at power up by pressing the Library button on the 5900M remote during the initial scan? I've tried it repeatedly and haven't had any luck.

Ken

Originally posted by K_Thompson
Has anyone else be able to confirm JonDeutsch's experience of being able to prevent the auto play last disk at power up by pressing the Library button on the 5900M remote during the initial scan? I've tried it repeatedly and haven't had any luck.

Ken

Heck, JonDeutsch himself couldn't repeat this! I'm going to have to try some things this weekend -- my guess is that it's more about timing than the actual button you press.

In other words, I think hitting the Library button that one time happened to be closer to the end of the scanning process. I think hitting STOP during the end of the scanning process had the same effect.

Ken, is this something you can repeat?

Once confirmed, it would be possible to macro the ON button to pause for a specific time, and then hit another button (ie, STOP) and definitively guarantee no auto-play.

No promises, because I haven't had the time to thoroughly test.

To keep the last disc from playing when I turn on the 5900 I have my power button on my pronto set to stop,delay 0.1, stop.

I visited the Kenwood website for the first time in months. On the issue of control of 3 changers, the website now says that the Entre controls "changers." This is accurate, so far as it goes, since it can control either the DV-5900M, or the DV-5050M. Those two models would constitute "changers."

Recall that some said earlier that they took solace in the fact that the website used to inaccurately report the Entre's ability to control 3 changers, since this meant to them that Kenwood had every intention of implementing the fix to accomplish this. By that logic, does this mean Kenwood is setting the stage to tell us that it will only control one changer?

It's been 4 months since I acquired my Entre. We have the backdoor information that Kenwood has leaked to a few, all to the effect that they do intend on implementing the fix, but can't say when. From a practical standpoint, indefinite delays associated with "assurances" mean, really, no assurances at all.

As more time passes, and as the information on the current ability of the Entre is now arguably "accurate," Kenwood's ability to argue that those who purchased the Entre system got exactly what was advertised increases. The flip side is that those left out in the cold on Kenwood's marketing--yours truly, among others--become a distinct minority, much easier to ignore.

I just loaded Pink Floyd's The Wall. It was disc number 380. I have my daisy chained 5050M ready to fire up, and I'm very soon going to want to start using it. As soon as my preamp upgrade is accomplished (the manufacturer, not Kenwood, is upgrading the processors and mine is slated for it) I'm going to want to start using space in the DV-5900M for DVD-Audio discs as well.

So, Kenwood, if you're reading this, please appreciate that some kind of explanation is owed. I find it very hard to believe that, from an engineering standpoint, this problem can't be solved. I recognize, too, that there is a cost/benefit analysis associated with that endeavor. We've long had the ability to make cars that can crash into buildings at 50 mph, and the passengers walk away unscathed. Problem is, the cars cost about a million dollars apiece to build, so it's not a practical solution to the problem of crashworthiness of automobiles. I have to believe that this is the dilemma Kenwood is facing, not whether it can be done.

I solved this the first time I approached 400 discs by rummaging through my collection and selling about 100 discs on eBay, justifying it on the basis that I really didn't want to view them again. I don't want to go through that exercise again. But I know that after I run out of space in my DV-5900M, I'm going to be irked by the fact that it doesn't work beyond it. My patience will probably be measured by as much space as remains in the DV-5900M. Problem is, space is running out.

Some may get upset with me for raising this issue again, but there are a lot of people on this thread that weren't here when it started. I recognize that it won't practically bother most people, because 400 discs is still a ways off. But the principal benefit to any DVD changer is library management, and if you leased the space with the idea that was more was available, it becomes perturbing to learn, once you've moved in, that no more space is really available. Yes, there have been unofficial dribs and drabs of information to the effect that they're working on it, but no dates, and, ultimately, no assurances. And the website has now been changed in a manner that suggests damage control.

I'm glad the website is now accurate, but maybe it's the lawyer in me that keeps mistaking Kenwood as one of my clients, and I'm simply pleased that they're limiting their exposure. I'd really like to hear something more concrete than we've heard thus far, because, in the end, I'm just a consumer here, and I only want them to fulfill their promises.

Nick :cool:

Hi !

Don't mean to be off topic, but it does say: ...(Changer...) Issues and Answers. For me the issue is whether the 5900M can be modded for multi-region playback. Anyone have news of such a possibility? My threads to this effect self-destructed...

TIA.

Nick,

I do not have an Entre, but I feel your pain. You were mislead, and you are owed either a fix to your system to enable the functionality that was advertised, or a refund from Kenwood.

I suggest you write a letter to the president of KenwoodUSA. I wouldn't throw threats around, but I would enunciate your predicament and your sphere of influence with their target market.

Tell them that if they cannot promise to upgrade your system to what was initially advertised by a certain point in time, then you want them to take back the entire system.

If you are not willing to give up your system, then you're left to pleading your case. In this case, I suggest calling KenwoodUSA support every day you can, and continually log the same complaint. Eventually, in the weekly tech support meeting at KenwoodUSA, someone is going to get sick of the issue coming up and escalate it.

Originally posted by Brett
Hi !

Don't mean to be off topic, but it does say: ...(Changer...) Issues and Answers. For me the issue is whether the 5900M can be modded for multi-region playback. Anyone have news of such a possibility? My threads to this effect self-destructed...

TIA.

Brett:

I asked this question recently of the folks at www.jvb.nl. I was told that within a few weeks, the modification for the Kenwood changer will be available.

I don't know them, I've only bought from them. But I liked the mod they gave to my former Pioneer DV-F727.

Nick :cool:

RE: Multiple changers controlled by the Entre
Nicholas, et. al, I absolutely don't have a problem with this topic being revisited on a modestly frequent basis nor do I have any issues with your input on that or any other of the matters. You are an experienced multi-changer user (several others) so your input should be taken seriously by Kenwood. Your input is thought out and articulate thus useful.

It ABSOLUTELY was my understanding and reading that the Entre would control multiple changers and that is my full intention to have it do. I want one for a 2nd set of DVDs and a 3rd for CDs/DVD-As. Do I want to watch some of those DVDs again? Not sure. Does my wife, does her friends, do my kids, do their friends? Probably.

I mentioned this in the past but I don't recall anyone ever responding. Regardless of what the website says today or yesterday...there are various screens in the Entre menu that indicate there is multiple changer control. Case in point. Look up range setup screen. It says "Lookup discs ___ to ___ in changer <button with up/down arrows: KDVD1>" Below that is a <button: check range>. On the subsequent 'Look up range' screen it states "Location: changer 1, slot ___". It does not take a whole lot of a leap of surmising to see that the Entre is/was intended to control multiple changers...regardless of what the website says. This is clear. Agree?


RE: Updated to version 1.0.2.6
I got this new version today...manually. I have yet to get an upgrade by their automated method (i.e. in my case nighttime/weekly checks via my always on internet connection). I know the Entre does internet access every 30 minutes for some reason as I have seen the DNS lookups. Has anyone else gotten automatic updates?

Nicolas, do you mind me harping, again, on that fact that their tips/help website which I've mentioned a couple times does not clue us into what features these updates bring. Instead we are like mice in a maze trying to figure it out and see if the annoyances are removed by the latest update. i.e. an <info button> that provides information instead of finger exercise {grin/frown}.

<edit> They put it up...they actually did...doh..alas it doesn't have version info. Still they put it up. ok baby steps... RE: tips site: http://www.kenwoodusa.com/sovereign/latest_tips </edit>

Enjoy your weekend. I'm watching movies on the Entre and 5900 which I still enjoy immensely despite the issues. Take care, Scott Fauque

P.S. David B...I love the new spell checker interface!

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Nick,

I do not have an Entre, but I feel your pain. You were mislead, and you are owed either a fix to your system to enable the functionality that was advertised, or a refund from Kenwood.

I suggest you write a letter to the president of KenwoodUSA. I wouldn't throw threats around, but I would enunciate your predicament and your sphere of influence with their target market.

Tell them that if they cannot promise to upgrade your system to what was initially advertised by a certain point in time, then you want them to take back the entire system.

If you are not willing to give up your system, then you're left to pleading your case. In this case, I suggest calling KenwoodUSA support every day you can, and continually log the same complaint. Eventually, in the weekly tech support meeting at KenwoodUSA, someone is going to get sick of the issue coming up and escalate it.

I want all to understand that, while I'm frustrated, I still like the Entre very much. And I don't believe that Kenwood deliberately misled anyone, they just blundered. And I believe as well that Kenwood is honestly trying to fix things.

So what do you do when you like the product, but it is not what you thought you were getting? I don't want a refund, because I don't want to be without it. I like the Entre, and, for all its faults, I like the DV-5900M.

My point is that someone in my position should not be told that the only options are an outright return/refund, or just accept things as is. If it can't get fixed, there's room for Kenwood to compensate people with something inbetween.

Look, as a lawyer, I know the most effective means of getting their attention, but that's not what this is about. This is about getting results, or learning that the results just aren't in the cards. I have no interest in writing what I know from experience to be the most effective letters (or worse) to Kenwood, because I'm approaching this purely as a consumer, and as an enthusiast in this area--that's the only hat I want to wear in this debate. Unfortunately, I happen also to know all too well the real remedies for frustrated consumers.

I don't want to give the Entre back. There's nothing to replace it with. But I don't want to be told that's my only choice if Kenwood resolves not to come through. Were it not for noticing that the Kenwood website has changed the description, I would not have commented.

Would I have paid what I did for the Entre, had I known what I know now? I don't know. If not, how much is the diminution in value that the Entre suffers from only being able to control one changer?

You know what? There it is. If the Entre can't get fixed to control three changers, then everyone who bought one should get two free Entres, along with a free router to access the signal. That may raise a chuckle, but writing is a marvelous tonic. If they can't get it right, that's what I want in return. Not money, not refunds, just the function they said they'd provide.

Kenwood, you now know the price of my silence!!!:)

Nick :cool:

RE: tips site
In my just previous post I edited it to state the tips site is there now...but wait...what is this:

"USB Keyboards
- COMPAQ USB KB
- Eagle Touch MCK-600W USB BY ORTEK Tech
- Microsoft Natural Keyboard Pro RT9431
- Belkin Scorpius 980 plus "

Did I completely miss that the Entre can be be keyboard controlled?!? I know the DV5900 has a wireless but the Entre with a USB keyboard! Very curious.

Scott Fauque

As far as the auto update of software goes....Nope...Never once has happened for me yet so thanks for the info on the new version.

Once again however, THIS IS NO INFORMATION ON WHAT THIS NEW VERSION DOES OR FIXES!!!

Been told again they ARE working on multi-changer support. But as some of you all ready know, it requires a hardware piece and also software. So, it will take both Kenwood and OpenGlobe to make it all happen. It is all a matter of time and resources.

Originally posted by ScottF200
RE: tips site
Did I completely miss that the Entre can be be keyboard controlled?!? I know the DV5900 has a wireless but the Entre with a USB keyboard! Very curious.

Scott Fauque

I don't know about control by the keyboard, but I've used a wireless USB keyboard on the Entre to manually input DVD titles. Sure beats usiing the remote control.

The keyboard I used isn't on their approved list, but I'm guessing most USB keyboards will work, since keyboards are pretty much standardized for USB.

On an unrelated note -

Regarding the 'phantom' update that now happens each time you manually request new software (something gets downloaded, but it's not a new system version). I've noticed from observing my router that the Entre doesn't appear to access the Internet when showing the pages accessed by the OpenGlobe button. Could it be that the 'phantom' download is to update these pages?

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Nicholas


So what do you do when you like the product, but it is not what you thought you were getting? I don't want a refund, because I don't want to be without it. I like the Entre, and, for all its faults, I like the DV-5900M.



My sentiments, exactly. I like my 5900M, although I am frustrated as heck with the things that it could do with a few UI modifications!


My point is that someone in my position should not be told that the only options are an outright return/refund, or just accept things as is. If it can't get fixed, there's room for Kenwood to compensate people with something in between.


My above recommendation was not to accept things as-is. Instead, it is to put the same amount of effort into speaking to KenwoodUSA directly as you do with speaking in this forum. While David tells us that Kenwood monitors this forum, we do not know who monitors, what they're monitoring, or what the process is to communicate this information to decision makers at KenwoodUSA. I think if you want Kenwood to truly address your concerns, it's on you to find a sponsor within Kenwood to ensure your case will be addressed. Kenwood is already working on the next generation stuff. It'll take some effort to have them prioritize on a problem that a small minority of the people have an issue with.

I opened a ticket with Kenwood about an issue with my 5900M. Opening a helpdesk ticket ensures that they work to resolve the issue before they close it. Maybe you've done this already, but if you haven't, I suggest you do.


Look, as a lawyer, I know the most effective means of getting their attention, but that's not what this is about. This is about getting results, or learning that the results just aren't in the cards.


With all due respect, I disagree with this! Getting their attention is a prerequisite to getting the resources assigned to resolve the problem.

I am a manager of systems development, and I know that my priorities are driven by customer needs, my management's requests, and my personal ambitions. If I were responsible for developing the Entre at Kenwood, I would have a very difficult time justifying assigning my resources on a hardware mod to address the needs of a handful of unhappy customers when I am being tied to deadlines for the new Entre, which is directly tied to revenue targets in 2002, which directly affect the stock price, of which I have much.

What would change this perspective? Well, if my management came to me and said "at Kenwood, it is simply not our philosophy to leave early-adoptors dissatisfied or mislead with our products. As a result, we want you to focus on making the current product everything we promised it would be, AND still come out with the new Entre, on time, and on budget."

And how would this happen? Communication from people like you, David, and others who feel they have a legitimate gripe with the initial marketing of the unit. Early-adopters who have a sphere of influence that can effect many, many other sales, and who lead in managing perceptions of brand.


I have no interest in writing what I know from experience to be the most effective letters (or worse) to Kenwood, because I'm approaching this purely as a consumer, and as an enthusiast in this area--that's the only hat I want to wear in this debate. Unfortunately, I happen also to know all too well the real remedies for frustrated consumers.


Again, with all due respect, I think your occupation as a lawyer may have tainted your respect for the power of a consumer with a legitimate gripe. I could count of 10-20 instances when my singular complaint has generated responses well beyond what I would normally expect as a response from corporations. I've had policies changed, custom solutions developed, and presidents of corporations call me to ensure that I was satisfied. It's pretty amazing what one person can do.
[/b]

You know what? There it is. If the Entre can't get fixed to control three changers, then everyone who bought one should get two free Entres, along with a free router to access the signal. That may raise a chuckle, but writing is a marvelous tonic. If they can't get it right, that's what I want in return. Not money, not refunds, just the function they said they'd provide.


This doesn't sound like a reasonable solution to me -- for you or Kenwood. 3 Entres would give you 3 remotes, 3 separate databases, etc...

I would, however, be encouraged by David's feedback that Kenwood is working on the mod to provide the functionality you originally purchased, but did not receive. I suggest you and David coordinate a communication strategy to ensure Kenwood keeps on it.

I'm not trying to argue here, I'm actually just trying to help by providing some of the insight I have into how corporations make decisions in situations like this. Customer Loyalty/Intimacy is the big management buzzword these days, and if you fly under this flag, you have a better chance of being satisfied.

Originally posted by Nicholas


I asked this question recently of the folks at www.jvb.nl. I was told that within a few weeks, the modification for the Kenwood changer will be available...

Nick :cool:


Thanks Nick!

I e-mailed them both in the US and in Holland but they only said it wasn't available. This makes me once again hopeful. :) Now to find a 5900M at a good pricepoint, anyone have a source?

Cheers,

RE: Group disappeared [sort of] after recent version upgrade
As I mentioned above I recently updated by version to 1.0.2.6 (from 1.0.1.1), and I found a problem...my "ShowMeOff" DVD group disappeared. Dang and darn them I said (well my kids were there!)...so I proceeded to create it again. I used the exact same name. I added the name...then the next step was 'select'ing the DVDs. To my surprise the ones that were in my old group (named the same) were checked off! So I hit 'rec'ord. I then looked at the group and none were there. So I edited the group again and deselected my DVDs and selected my DVDs again. Hit 'rec'ord. Still they did not show up when looking at my group. I then deleted this group. I then added the group again and all worked. I assume deleting the group cleaned up its 'database.

Just in case any of you have this problem and want the solution I used. Other solutions may work. Also just in case Kenwood [Brian?] is still reading. Please have development check this out. Thanks.

p.s. Jon and Nicolas, I enjoyed your guys polite, considerate and well explained remarks to each other. This is a forum with class as these things can easily get out of hand quickly using written communication. As a development manager myself, I can understand and related well to Jon's remarks. I should have used all that advice that works on myself (in my job) for that tips website <grin> and it might have been fixed sooner <grin2>.

I will say one thing. This discussion is going nice, most of the other products in these groups somehow become arguments. Anyway it's nice to see that we are all respectfully discussing issues.

Kenwood should try very hard to fix these issues. I for one have held back buying another unit due to this problem.(as have many of you). This is costing them money. I would have had two changers by now if it worked. One for DVD's and one for CD's. And would probably buy a third eventually.

So hopefully they hop to it. Before someone comes out with something that does work and we all jump at that.

Originally posted by slocko
[B]Not sure what exactly is it that you do with the pioneer that you think you can't do with the native kenwood gui <Snip>

You can set up categories just like the pioneer. If you want all your dvds listed, there is an "all userlist". This displays all your dvds. You can then create macros for each letter that search on that letter. [B] <Snip>

Yep, except that this list only functions for one changer, defeating the whole purpose as per the posts you are responding to.

originally posted by JonDeutsch

I think if you want Kenwood to truly address your concerns, it's on you to find a sponsor within Kenwood to ensure your case will be addressed. Kenwood is already working on the next generation stuff. It'll take some effort to have them prioritize on a problem that a small minority of the people have an issue with.

Jon . . . I called a number of times when I first got my Entre. So did David. So did a number of other people. It's a problem.

As for it being something only a small minority have an issue with, I do not agree. I've tried to avoid the words "class action," but this is an issue that goes to the heart of the Entre scheme. Simply because you don't now own two changers doesn't mean that it's ok to deprive you of the flexibility and expandibility that was advertised as an inducement to purchase. If you own an Entre you paid for that expandibility, and, so far, you don't have it.

Every person that purchased an Entre is a potential class member, and I didn't want to say this out loud, but it's the only response to a contention that only a small minority of people have an issue with it. If you own an Entre it's worth less than it was advertised, because it does less than was advertised.


I opened a ticket with Kenwood about an issue with my 5900M. Opening a helpdesk ticket ensures that they work to resolve the issue before they close it. Maybe you've done this already, but if you haven't, I suggest you do.

I'm quite sure that Kenwood would like me to take a ticket and stand in line. And, hey, in deference to my desire to see the product work, that's all I've done.


I am a manager of systems development, and I know that my priorities are driven by customer needs, my management's requests, and my personal ambitions. If I were responsible for developing the Entre at Kenwood, I would have a very difficult time justifying assigning my resources on a hardware mod to address the needs of a handful of unhappy customers when I am being tied to deadlines for the new Entre, which is directly tied to revenue targets in 2002, which directly affect the stock price, of which I have much.

Again, I disagree with your premise. I can assure you that the reason Kenwood changed the language in its website was due to the very concern I'm articulating. Every sale of an Entre on the basis of that marketing was the potential subject of legal action. Just because you don't now need the flexibility for a second changer, doesn't alter the fact that its value is diminished as a result of not being able to support more than one. It's like saying that you really don't need a spare tire in the trunk of your new car, because only the few people that get flats really use them.

As for economics and shareholder concerns, you don't need to be a lawyer to appreciate the significant expense that motivates a corporation to do its best to avoid legal entanglements. This one is not terribly good looking for Kenwood, either. They said it would perform a function, sold it on that basis, and it didn't. If you were Kenwood's lawyer, what would your defense be?

Please understand, I'm not supporting this, nor am I soliciting clients to do it . But to suggest that this is not the most significant motivation to act means that everyone that turns to a lawyer for redress in similiar situations has approached things incorrectly-- they should have gotten their ticket in the complaint line. Sorry, that's not what motivates actions where money is concerned.


What would change this perspective? Well, if my management came to me and said "at Kenwood, it is simply not our philosophy to leave early-adoptors dissatisfied or mislead with our products. As a result, we want you to focus on making the current product everything we promised it would be, AND still come out with the new Entre, on time, and on budget."

And how would this happen? Communication from people like you, David, and others who feel they have a legitimate gripe with the initial marketing of the unit. Early-adopters who have a sphere of influence that can effect many, many other sales, and who lead in managing perceptions of brand.

How about if your management came to you and said, "we have a lawsuit that will cost hundreds of thousands, probably millions, and we'll spend a good portion of that on attorney fees even if we're found right?"

Think that would motivate you?


Again, with all due respect, I think your occupation as a lawyer may have tainted your respect for the power of a consumer with a legitimate gripe. I could count of 10-20 instances when my singular complaint has generated responses well beyond what I would normally expect as a response from corporations. I've had policies changed, custom solutions developed, and presidents of corporations call me to ensure that I was satisfied. It's pretty amazing what one person can do.

I'm glad that there are people like you in business. But consumer protection statutes have been passed in every state in the nation in recognition that your experience is the exception, not the rule.


I would, however, be encouraged by David's feedback that Kenwood is working on the mod to provide the functionality you originally purchased, but did not receive. I suggest you and David coordinate a communication strategy to ensure Kenwood keeps on it.

Let's see. It goes something like this:

Kenwood, you said the Entre would control more than one changer.

Kenwood, it doesn't.

Kenwood, what do you intend to do about it?

That's been the communication strategy so far. Hasn't worked yet.

I'm not trying to argue here, I'm actually just trying to help by providing some of the insight I have into how corporations make decisions in situations like this. Customer Loyalty/Intimacy is the big management buzzword these days, and if you fly under this flag, you have a better chance of being satisfied.

I don't think you're trying to argue. It's simply that your singular experience with your corporation doesn't coincide with the hundreds of cases I've handled, where communication like you've espoused just doesn't work, because it costs too much money.

Hey, my hope is that your approach will work, because that's the one I've been adopting for the four months I've owned the Entre. I don't intend to change anytime soon, either. But, frankly, Kenwood should be grateful that someone hasn't taken it to task over this yet.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nicholas


Jon . . . I called a number of times when I first got my Entre. So did David. So did a number of other people. It's a problem.


All I was saying from the get-go is to continue to follow-up. Don't let them think you're letting up! Assuming that they in fact do have plans to release a mod, if you continue to poke and prod, it will only expedite the process. No one likes the pain of an unhappy customer.


As for it being something only a small minority have an issue with, I do not agree. I've tried to avoid the words "class action," but this is an issue that goes to the heart of the Entre scheme. Simply because you don't now own two changers doesn't mean that it's ok to deprive you of the flexibility and expandibility that was advertised as an inducement to purchase. If you own an Entre you paid for that expandibility, and, so far, you don't have it.


What I meant by small minority is the number of people who are going to let Kenwood know about this dissatisfaction with the disparity between the original marketing material and the unit shipped.


I'm quite sure that Kenwood would like me to take a ticket and stand in line. And, hey, in deference to my desire to see the product work, that's all I've done.


A sound approach at this stage of the game, IMHO.


How about if your management came to you and said, "we have a lawsuit that will cost hundreds of thousands, probably millions, and we'll spend a good portion of that on attorney fees even if we're found right?"

Think that would motivate you?


I'm not a lawyer, but I have worked with our legal department on similar matters, and lawsuits tend to motivate us to either settle or win. I cannot recall a time when a lawsuit ended up giving the customer what they wanted, when they wanted it. The process just takes too long.


Let's see. It goes something like this:

Kenwood, you said the Entre would control more than one changer.

Kenwood, it doesn't.

Kenwood, what do you intend to do about it?

That's been the communication strategy so far. Hasn't worked yet.



Agreed, it hasn't. That's why I recommend that you speak with the President of KenwoodUSA and discuss your situation with him/her personally. Get a sponsor that can make decisions and set priorities. Maybe David already has this kind of connection, in which case, the right things are already in motion.


I don't think you're trying to argue. It's simply that your singular experience with your corporation doesn't coincide with the hundreds of cases I've handled, where communication like you've espoused just doesn't work, because it costs too much money.


There's how things are at work, and then there are the many, many instances where I, a normal consumer with very little leverage, have nudged companies to go the extra mile to satisfy me. I believe in this process, but it does take effort on the consumer's part to be persistent.


Hey, my hope is that your approach will work, because that's the one I've been adopting for the four months I've owned the Entre. I don't intend to change anytime soon, either. But, frankly, Kenwood should be grateful that someone hasn't taken it to task over this yet.


I think all current Entre owners were wronged. My concern is that Kenwood has not publicly commited to fixing the problem. Because of the legal ramifications, as well as customer loyalty, I think it would behoove them to do so. I think their recent re-wording on the site is shaky stuff. If they are backing down from this functionality for current units being sold, then do they have any intention of providing the fix for these units? Doesn't seem like it. So, then, why would they go make a mod for your Entre but not people who buy it now?

I suggest you call, speak to an executive or two, and propose that they publicly announce their intentions to keep their customers satisfied. As hard as it will be, try to keep the legal threats away -- it'll only tee them off, and will most likely get you into a process that will not result in a hardware fix for your Entre.

Originally posted by vaha
To keep the last disc from playing when I turn on the 5900 I have my power button on my pronto set to stop,delay 0.1, stop.

I have simulated this by hand, and it does seem to work.
You can see the PLAY icon on the display actually turn off as you hit STOP during it's READING process.

GREAT STUFF -- No more auto-play! One 5900M issue licked, 173 to go. :)

This is a *long* thread, so forgive me if this has already been addressed.

I recently purchased a VR-5090 mainly because of its component video capabilities. I'm pretty happy with it (now that I've programmed my Sony RM-AV2100 to replace the lame remote.) I am dissappointed that it does not have any sort of on-screen display through the component out, though. I guess some of the higher models do, and I simply missread but I had thought that the 5090 did as well.

The thing is, my system is completely hidden away (in my attic, actually.) Does the fact that I won't be able to see the front panels effectively make the Entre or 400 disc DVD changer useless? Even if I switched back to a Kenwood remote, I don't think that a standard IR repeating set-up (I used the basic Imagine IR-100's) are two-way, are they?

If I also upgraded to a Sovereign receiver that *could* output the on-screen display via component, would it display the Entre or changer info? It doesn't seem likely, but I thought I'd ask.

Hoping someone here can help with this latest issue ...

For some reason my DV-5900 has mysteriously decided to stop sending output to the subwoofer in 6 channel mode. I know it used to work -- when I got my Kenwood Sampler DVD, the audio test patterns worked fine! I have tried the following:

- using another 6 channel input on my receiver
- using another cable
- plugging and unplugging the cables

I've used the test tones button on my receiver to see if there was something wrong with the sub and there isn't anything, my receiver is able to send a signal to the sub.

Any ideas before I take the unit in for repairs -- this after less than 4 months of use. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the unit has also decided to stop ejecting discs -- I've been using a flashlight to find the disc I want to eject (pretty comical considering what this thing cost).

Heroildo

Originally posted by hmatos
Hoping someone here can help with this latest issue ...

For some reason my DV-5900 has mysteriously decided to stop sending output to the subwoofer in 6 channel mode. I know it used to work -- when I got my Kenwood Sampler DVD, the audio test patterns worked fine! I have tried the following:

- using another 6 channel input on my receiver
- using another cable
- plugging and unplugging the cables

I've used the test tones button on my receiver to see if there was something wrong with the sub and there isn't anything, my receiver is able to send a signal to the sub.

Any ideas before I take the unit in for repairs -- this after less than 4 months of use. As I mentioned earlier in this thread, the unit has also decided to stop ejecting discs -- I've been using a flashlight to find the disc I want to eject (pretty comical considering what this thing cost).

Heroildo

Did you try the following?

- Running the sub out from the 5900M directly to the sub
- Doing the whitenoise test on the 5900M
- fiddling with the bass management settings (large/small speakers)

I would try these before sending the unit in for repairs.

JonDeutsch,

I did that ... I forgot to include that in my description above.

Thanks! I guess there must be something wrong with it.

H

As far as I know, the issue with daisy changing the players only applies to the entre. If you daisy change the 5900s and use it's native gui, you should be able to aggregate across the players. no one has actually stated that you can't do that.

i'll re-read the section in the manaul to see what they say about it. i didn't pay attention to it, since i don't have multiple players yet.

too bad it is so troublesome to categorize dvds else i would ask one of these guys with multiple players to try it.

Originally posted by mdownard
<Snip>

Yep, except that this list only functions for one changer, defeating the whole purpose as per the posts you are responding to.

I apologize if this has been covered elsewhere in this lengthy thread, but can someone please tell me how many internet radio stations the Entre supports?

Hello From Key West on Vacation....

I got this from Brian (Kenwood)....


Version 1.0.2.6 is posted on the web for manual or automatic download. The
main upgrade is the capability to stream most .asx format iRadio streams.
This prepares the Entre' for Sirius Satellite streaming. Additionally, .asx
is the most popular WMA streaming format on the web, so we are now
compatible with a whole nether source of content on the web.

Additionally, several minor problems were fixed, one of which was a problem
identified with not being able to recognize the second disc in a two disc
boxed set. Sorry to say, that DVD lookup is not yet entirely upgraded.
OpenGlobe is working on the fuzzy matching for their server, but it is going
to take approximately 4 more weeks before this is fully tested and
implemented on their server. OpenGlobe is also putting significant
resources towards recapturing some problem discs. I expect gradual
improvement over the next several weeks.

Thanks to all who mailed information to dvdtitles@kenwoodusa.com The
information collected allowed our engineers to characterize the problem and
find a way to improve the system.

Best regards,

Brian




Bye all.

When I get home I'll check if the auto update routine worked.

Latest update from Kenwood is two Kenwood technicians will be in my area this week and they want to see my setup before the swap of Entre units.

Has anyone actually been able to update to the current software version? I keep getting the, "Update cannot be processed at this time"

H

Originally posted by hmatos
Has anyone actually been able to update to the current software version? I keep getting the, "Update cannot be processed at this time"

H

Yes, see my entry above on 02-16-02 08:29 AM where I notified everyone it was available and that I HAD to download it manually as auto does/did not work (ever). HTH

P.S. Thanks, Brian, for the update on what it does! I hope the new radio stations help with the radio interface. Having just 4 station letters for many descriptions is pretty sad. I don't even show my friends that part of the interface because I'm embarassed <grin/frown>. Sorry...getting spolied by many PC internet radio interfaces (MS Player, etc etc). Thx again for the efforts and updates!

When I checked the software version yesterday evening I already had 1.0.2.6. so I assumed the upgrade happened automatically during the night. To make sure I still did a manual update and the Entre indicated it downloaded an update. Once the update was unpacked the Entre restarted, which seemed to indicate it was a _real_ software upgrade. When Entre came back up I checked the software version and it was still 1.0.2.6.

Also, I loaded the DV-5900M with my 120 DVD's and the system was able to automatically identify 95 of those DVD'd, which I think was pretty good. The other 25 I will have to search for manually. The problem I have here is that the Entre can not handle multiple matches, so I need to know the exact title used in the OG database in order to find the correct match. My DVD Audio discs were not identified and it was also not possible to find those in manual search (I think this is still an unsupported function?). The CD's I loaded on the other hand were all identified with no problems, even the odd/rare titles - worked great !

These units have become the ultimate test to my patience (or lack thereof). I've been trying to force an update since ScottF200 first reported there was one.

I've also noticed that since the last update 1.0.1 (the update that fixed the stop issue), the Media Manager software is totally unreliable. It's a 50-50 shot for me to establish a connection to the Entre. At first I thought it might be the computer I was using, but I've tried it on 3 difference computers and I get the same results.

The Media Manager establishes the connection and opens the catalog -- but then there's nothing in the list (no music, no artist, no nothing). I delete the Kenwood sub-folder in OpenGlobe on the PC and still nothing. Several times, this screw-up has actually affected the Entre -- I go to the guide (music or movies) and there's nothing there. It all clears up when I reboot the Entre.

I'm curious, does anyone else have over 300+ discs in their 5900? I'm wondering if my problems are being caused because of the size of the Entre's database.

H

I will have a rare opportunity on Thursday when 2 Kenwood technicians and local Kenwood rep stop by my house. I plan on printing copies of this thread and discussing any open issues. I will print this thread at 10:00AM EST tomorrow. If you have something for me to ask the technicians, fire away. I will try to get as many answers as possible.

I will have a rare opportunity on Thursday when 2 Kenwood technicians and local Kenwood rep stop by my house. I plan on printing copies of this thread and discussing any open issues. I will print this thread at 10:00AM EST tomorrow. If you have something for me to ask the technicians, fire away. I will try to get as many answers as possible.

Anyone know what the easiest way to transfer all your MP3's from your PC to your Entre Is? This one at a time thing sucks.

I have tried to install the Media Manager but I get a an error I can not figure out in the setup process. No support available from Kenwood, but thought I should check to see if anyone here had the same problem and got it solved...

I get the following error message when launching the setup script:

"The installShield Engine (iKernel.exe) could not be launched. Error loading type library/DLL."

Any ideas??

Btw - I am using windows XP.

RE: The installShield Engine (iKernel.exe) could not be launched. Error loading type library/DLL.

I did a google.com search for ikernel and launched. There were several hits. Here is a good one. You didn't mentione what other avenues you used to find a resolution (hence my google search suggestion). I'd guess this was not a 'Kenwood' software issue but a related one.

http://pi-at-work.com/cad/threads/tweek135/thread28.html

RE: 2 Kenwood technicians and local Kenwood rep stop by my house
aauno, that is unbelievable! Meaning 'cool' and not that I don't believe you <grin>. a) Make sure you show them the "worthless" info button and how on a DVD selection it'd be nice push it and have all the "info" pop up. b) Can you please ask about multichanger support via the Entre? Can you *please* show them the look up range screen and show where it seems to let you pick from multiple changers *please*? c) Don't show them the radio interface lest they get embarassed and leave <grin> Actually with the Sirius Satellite deal they are putting forth a nice 'content' effort for which I'm thankful.

Much thanks.

Carbo,

I hope this was the information you were looking for. You should be able to import multiple MP3 files, although it just builds a list and then processes them one at a time (REALLY SLOW!).

-- In media manager, on the left pane, scroll down to "My Computer"

-- click on the directory that has the MP3 files, you should see a list of files show up on the top right pane

-- right mouse click on the little box that's next to a file and select "set all"

-- right mouse click on a file name in the list and select "import tagged files"

Alternatively,

-- select File, Import Music File from the menu

-- goto the directory that contains your MP3 files

-- Ctrl+A

I have found that it's alot easier/faster if you have the CD, just let the Entre encode it.

Hope this helps!

H

Lars158,

I've also come across the same issue on several Win XP machines -- I'm not sure, but I don't believe Media Manager is supported under XP. I found this bit of information on the escientconvergence website. I even tried running in compatibility mode (Win 98 and Win 2K), still didn't work.

I have emailed Kenwood & OpenGlobe -- nothing so far!

H

hmatos,

Thanks, If you lived closer I'd buy you lunch. This is what I wanted. I already have them ripped on the PC so I thought it would be faster this way. Makes you wonder why it's so slow. It is using the ethernet after all.

Carbo,

No problem, glad to help! I'm not sure why it's so slow ... I find it's faster on my Nomad Jukebox (which also uses USB) which also downloads music from a central server.

Oh well -- I seem to recall someone said the Media Manager's file transfer feature might see some improvements (some day).

H

Only the local marketing rep was able to come by last night. He had one of the techs on the phone. They tried a few functions which didn't work and then replaced my entre unit. Guess what, it works! Internet radio and prerecorded MP3's can now be heard, the selection of DVD's from the entre will now actually load the DVD. We were even able to upgrade the software. Bottom line is I had a bad unit.

The bad part is all the DVD's I spent hours looking up, will need to be redone. I have 270 DVD's with 100 unknown. There goes my Saturday.

For those of you wishing to have multiple kenwood changers accessible from an entre might have hope yet. I just noticed the escient fireball will have 3 RS-232 ports ...

So maybe the next generation entre will be able to interface with three kenwood changers.

Of course that does no good for existing entre owners ...

Rob

Entre software 1.0.2.7 available for download.

RE: Entre software 1.0.2.7 available for download.
Hmm...seems like a mean joke.

I go to the update menu option...I then get the following dialogue box:

----------------------------
UPDATE WARNING
This action may take a while.
Do you wish to continue?
(update button) (cancel button)
----------------------------

The 'update' button is *not* selectable for me from either the remote or directly using the front panel select button.

Is anyone else getting this problem?

Perhaps it doesn't work because 'update' is not an appropriate answer to the question <grin/frown>. It is a yes or no question and not a What would you like to do? question.

Thanks!

Originally posted by ScottF200
RE: Entre software 1.0.2.7 available for download.
Hmm...seems like a mean joke.

I go to the update menu option...I then get the following dialogue box:

----------------------------
UPDATE WARNING
This action may take a while.
Do you wish to continue?
(update button) (cancel button)
----------------------------

The 'update' button is *not* selectable for me from either the remote or directly using the front panel select button.

Is anyone else getting this problem?

Perhaps it doesn't work because 'update' is not an appropriate answer to the question <grin/frown>. It is a yes or no question and not a What would you like to do? question.

Thanks!

Scott:

I was very happy to read of your misfortune. Happy, because the same thing happened to me yesterday.

At first I thought the enter button was not working on the remote. But it sure responds to the cancel prompt all right.

Perhaps the software upgrade is a fix for a meaningless feature. Wouldn't be the first time.

Nick :cool:

RE: Update button "doesn't": Perhaps the software upgrade is a fix for a meaningless feature.
I think there is some twisted irony here:rolleyes: where the 1.0.2.7 update is to fix the fact that the (update button) doesn't work:eek:.

Of course, I'm a little concerned because as far as I know the automatic update feature never worked for me (w/I have a always on internet connection). I thought I recall others mentioning it hasn't worked for them either...to their knowledge (David if I recall).

RE: Improved auto update feature
Hmm...on the software I work on...we have a feature that lets the user control how often it runs (i.e. 1 day, 30 days, etc). What we did was provide the user a status. We kept track of when it was last performed and when it would be performed in the future (i.e. last_performed + user_input = next_time). We then displayed this for the user to see. Seemed like a good thing to our users. Perhaps Kenwood could do the same so we would know more about the auto update time. Brian, please consider. Thank you.

RE: Entre owners and *your* multiple changer support

I just started a new thread with some basic questions related to this topic. It would behoove us *all*... (hey an Entre may be in your future and your *significant* other has just not surprised you yet <grin>.)... if you would respond. My most sincere thanks.

Kenwood Sovereign Entré current or potential owners... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120934)

Oh no! I did not have this issue and I am at the new version without any issue getting it at. (Did the manual update.) Just went to that area and did a left arrow and pressed select. DOAH!

Scott & Nicholas,

Just reboot a couple of times (no joke). I had the same problem, I rebooted a couple of times and eventually it did accept "update". I had really strange issues with the 1.0.2.6 update -- I wasn't able to download it until about a week after everyone else. Something else I just remembered, I think I did a Web Sync which performs some sort of database rebuild during the syncing process (for what it's worth).

Oddly enough, I wrote to OpenGlobe and I'm not sure if it was a coincidence, but it worked the very next day.

Kenwood & OpenGlobe really should set up some sort of message board that they actively participate in -- similar to the level of support that Tivo, Replay, Audio Request, and Voyetra/Turtle Beach are providing.

Heroildo

Has anyone been listening to the Sirius Satelite Music on their Entre? It's not bad, pretty good channels. It's a good way for them to get this off the ground I guess, I would not have purchased this but now after listening to them I wouldn't mind having this in my car.

Best quality "internet" radio, I've ever heard. A very nice selection too.

H

Now if they only get this(Entre) to control multiple changers, I would say it could be the best Electronic product I've ever purchased.

...listening to the Sirius Satelite Music on their Entre

Where? I do not see a tag for it. It is listed different? HELP!!! I want to try! :D

David,

Just select,

-- radio
-- menu/options
-- get radio stations
-- internet

It'll take a while for it to download the stations, they'll have they're own category.

Heroildo

Thanks...Doing that now. How silly of me to think that would be an automatic process of some sort. :D

That is what happened to me. I didn't know they where there. I saw the advertisement in the Openglobe ads up at the top and looked in the radio only to see nothing.

The I figured why not try to reload the stations and pow.

The should use the email button to let us know what the upgrade does and how to do little things.

Originally posted by Carbo
The should use the email button to let us know what the upgrade does and how to do little things.
Do you mean when we press the e-mail button on the remote they should then e-mail us the features...i.e. they already have my e-mail id in my account setup in OpenGlobe? Heck wouldn't you love it if you could "opt" to get those automatically e-mailed to you...drool..drool.

Originally posted by hmatos
Best quality "internet" radio, I've ever heard. A very nice selection too.
Buddy, I think you are not too far off there. I've complained a time or two about their radio features but I'm no longer embarassed to show this area off. The selection is good and it sounds great. Thanks Brian and "company."

BTW, thanks for the reboot advice. I did a cold boot (unplug) and then it worked. I have to remember that this thing is a darn PC and the first fix is the 3 finger salute :rolleyes:

I was just thinking that since they are not using the email button right now, that instead of them posting to us that it will be used in the future. That maybe they could tell us what the update that we took currently does or fixed, how to get it to work if need be(ie. reload the radio stations to get Sirius) and then tell us that it will work in the future.

Link: Kenwood Sovereign Entré current or potential owners... (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?threadid=120934)

>>>>>>>>
All, please understand that I would like current owners *and* seriously potential Entre purchasers to respond.

I think in the answers to A, B and C that you can state whether you are a owner or serious potential purchasers. I think Kenwood should understand both groups. They are lo$ing money from both groups.

Owners want to add another 1 or 2 DVD changers now or near future and serious potential purchasers....well want to by the Entre and 1 or more (also more later) DVD changers. It is common business sense for Kenwood and Openglobe to come through on this issue. Common consumer sense as well...i.e. many potential customers on these forums reading threads...

So come 1, come serious, but please come on. We are not talking about a lawsuit here guys/gals but we are talking about trying to let Kenwood and OpenGlobe know we are serious and help them prioritize.
<<<<<<<<

New "feature", Kenwood Entre

Kenwood, OpenGlobe - -- here's a new one!

I was listening to a few MP3 files on the Entre (nothing special there, just happened to be the last CD I had encoded onto the Entre). The album finished playing -- I then pushed the Guide button to select something else. The unit locked up again (you say, SO WHAT -- it does it all the time).

Well, here's the NEW feature -- I rebooted the Entre and it rebooted okay. Except for one minor thing -- NO GUIDE! There was nothing under Music, nothing under Movies. This did happen a couple of times since 1.0.2.6, but I was able to quickly recover by simply rebooting. This was not the case yesterday! I had to perform a "Reset to Factory Defaults" -- since there's no "Rebuild Database" option.

So it's all gone,

* all cover art that was stored in the unit
* all DVD information I keyed in
* all MP3 CD information I keyed in
* all MP3 files stored on the internal drive

The only possitive, with a clean database -- the Entre seems to scroll things a little faster.

Oh Well!

H

Since 1.0.2.7. mine locks up in the open globe store browser.(Not that I use it that much). Anyone else?

>> NO GUIDE <<
Don't scare me with that information! I have 100 DVD's that will need to be looked up! Last Sunday it took me about six hours to complete the process.

Would I lie? :(

I came really close to just picking the thing up and tossing it out the window! This morning I had 85 or so DVD's which were unknown -- does not include the DVD-Audio discs. I had also created 20 MP3 discs, to compensate for,

* lack of a larger drive in the Entre
* no additional changer support

Every single one of those MP3 discs have to be re-titled.

I wish there were a way to "backup" the database.

H

I was thinking of adding an Entre to my Sovereign reciever, but the posts to this thread are scaring me. I've currently got my entire CD collection on a Macintosh with a Keyspan Digital remote. So I use iTunes to play both my local music and net radio.

The Entre seemed like a more elegant solution, but now I'm not so sure. Can anyone relate their experience with the entre vs a HTPC ?

joe12south,

I have a G4/867 OS 10, with about 80GB of MP3 files -- I use an Audiotron which accesses the files on the MAC via my network. I have not been able to use my Entre reliably, especially when it comes to MP3 playback. The goal was to replace the Audiotron with then Entre, I am since rethinking that decision.

Just my 2 cents!

Heroildo

f.y.i --

Another issue with the Entre! Here's a recent email to Kenwood & OpenGlobe --

As I reported earlier(last week, I have had to restore my unit to factory defaults; no matter what I did, the Entre would not display a guide for Music or Movies! I've spent a good portion of my weekend re-loading my MP3 collection and rebuilding my DVD library information. A quick note, your companiese have done an excellent job on the lock ups; I believe I only saw about 5 in 100 edits!

I've recently experienced some strange "Guide" behavior which leads me to believe that I will once again lose the database that the Entre uses to display guide information.

(1) the Music Guide is showing duplicate entries and there are NO duplicates according to the Music Manager software.

(2) I have albums which I cannot seem to assign cover art for; I assign the cover art in Media Manager and it does accept and display the artwork -- but when I syncronize, the cover art is not displayed on the Entre; I get the default blue OpenGlobe cover art.

Please do not tell me to delete the Kenwood folder on the PC, I've already done that. I have also tried deleting and re-adding the albums the Entre seems to have a problem with. None of this has worked!

Is there some magical combination of keys that will allow me to REBUILD the database, hell even a reformat of the partition that's holding the artwork and/or MP3 files would help. I've also noticed something that was very strange -- the Entre still has artwork that was on the unit prior to the "reset to factory defaults".

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

Part II, Just mailed this off to Kenwood & OpenGlobe ... still nothing from yesterday's email.

Kenwood, OpenGlobe:

I don't seem to have real "lock ups" anymore, but now there's an issue with the database the Entre uses to display guide information. I keep losing the database after performing a Disc Edit or a Web Sync. I press,

Guide, Music

It shows "All --> CD --> MP3" and nothing else; there's nothing actually under any of the categories. It seems that for now -- all I have to do is reboot and it's still able to rebuild it's database the next time the unit is turned on. I don't believe this ever happened prior to 1.0.2.6. Is there something I'm doing that's causing this?

Any help would be greatly appreciated!

The hard drive in the Entre is only 20 gigs. Has anyone tied pulling it out, connecting it to thier computer, copying the system software to a larger drive, then putting the larger capacity drive back in the Entre? It seems that this could be done.

I believe someone on groups.yahoo.com/ipaqmusiccenter tried to ghost the drive in their Compaq MC-1 (basically the same unit as the Entre), they were unsucessful.

message posted by Jim Reitz:
It doesn't look like it'll be easy to replace the hard drive with a bigger one. The MC1 is *not* a PC; it's a proprietary device running a proprietary operating system. It uses the pSOS real-time operating system from Wind River Systems, rather than Unix, Linux, QNX, Windows, or anything else that runs on PCs. This is quite different from some competitors' products, such as the AudioRequest which is basically a PC running QNX.

Looking at the MC1 hard disk with Norton Ghost 2001, it reports something like 8 partitions. Not all of them seem to be properly recognized by Ghost, however - some partitions appear to overlap or are of unknown type. So the hard disk may have a proprietary partition layout, too. I haven't yet tried Ghost'ing the disk to a larger HD, but so far I'm not optimistic it will work.


H

I no longer seem to have Internet Radio. Ver 1.0.2.7

I can see all the stations...But when I try to play, it says playing but I have NO AUDIO. If I go to MP3 playback...I have audio. Go back to the Internet...No Audio.

Sometimes it will connect to the raido server...sometimes it will not. Sometime just going into RADIO will lock the unit.

RFV - not in days

Sirius - not in days...when I did have it..It worked on and off and seemed to studder.

Now it says PLAYING but I have NO AUDIO!!!

I have unplugged the unit and plugged it back in. Also rebooted it several times.

This DID NOT start until 1.0.2.7

Anyone? Anyone? Buler, Buler?

I have the same problem, even thogh some internet radio stations actually have sound when they "play", but others do not...

RE: Internet Radio not working

When I read David's post I was thinking ... misery loves company ... because I was trying to use the internet radio a few days ago and it did not work. Status turned to: "iRadioPlay.Stop". When it was working (see previous post when I said I was now 'happy' (ok - less embarassed) by the Entre iradio for date/time)....I ALSO got the studder but mainly on the start of new songs. I was listening to the "Sirus best of the 80s".

Last night I was trying it as well and it seemed to just hang up when trying to go to Sirus stations or others. Rebooted (5 sec power button down) but to no avail.

I was thinking of trying a couple things this morning and then writing you guys but David bet me to it. Good I'm not a lone.

This morning things are working though! Perhaps Brian (kenwood) was reading the forum and then called up someone at openglobe to have them reboot the 'radio' server. This is nearly plausable to me but who knows.

Before learning that was working I started my DNS server cache software to give us all a little more insight and perhaps kenwood/openglobe.

<** start up (last nights last attempt was RFV, BTW) **>
3/9/02 10:02:46 AM: Q: 192.168.0.3 for: info.openglobe.net
3/9/02 10:02:49 AM: Q: 192.168.0.3 for: radiofreevirgin.com
3/9/02 10:02:50 AM: Q: 192.168.0.3 for: rfv-ny2.media.globix.net

<** after listening to several stations.**>
3/9/02 10:04:38 AM: Q: 192.168.0.3 for: idirector.media.ibeam.com
3/9/02 10:10:28 AM: Q: 192.168.0.3 for: silicon.intertech.net

This morning I was able to get to:
OK - Sirus - Best of the 80s
OK - RFV - Hot Country on Radio Free Virgin (56k)
STATION NOT AVAILABLE - ? - Double Q Country
OK - KAYE - Top 40
OK - CJVB - World

I did see the 'iRadioPlay.Stop' show up once but then a moment later it disappeard.

Does anyone else wish they would provide a BASIC and a "ADVANCED" interface where in the advanced they would display a LOT more status information of what is going on with their internet connect. Without a doubt it is already there as their developers could not live with this what-could-be-going on interface. Perhaps they just use software emulators and run the Entre on their desktop...can I have that <grin>. Or will I have to wait for XP Freestyle and Mira news. (http://www.winsupersite.com/showcase/freestyle_mira.asp) Microsoft website (http://www.microsoft.com/windows/ehome/overview/subpages/media.asp) <--added with edit

I hope they do some VERY serious testing with the Axcess Remote Portal (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2358) before they put that out. The whole MP3 issues and the internet radio hickups makes me pretty apprehensive about getting these...although I am counting on them.

Glad toy read you at least have SOME internet radio. I just gave a demo of the system and had to say.."I am sory, but I have beta software so this is not working right.". I did not have the heart to say I was pissed!

I can get the unit to say PLAYING....But NO AUDIO is heard. Only in Internet radio mode.

BTW...The studder, when working, was only on Sirus and yes...mostly in the begining of songs.

David,

RE: "I can get the unit to say PLAYING....But NO AUDIO is heard. Only in Internet radio mode. "
Allow me to ask the obvious...did you switch to Analog on your receiver...or perhaps the Kenwood Rec automatically does that?

RE: some play
If you guys list a few that don't work then others can try. We need to compare apples here.

RE: Sirius studder
That seems illogical to me. If it happened right when starting up the connection then I could understand but at the start of songs...connection drop between songs <grin>. Perhaps I just don't know what "sirus is" and if I did it would make more sense.

<edit> BTW, my internet connection is @home cable which is a consistent 1.5M. I think David's is pretty good as well as I recall so it does not seem like a bandwidth problem which would be somones first guys if they read all this </edit>

Scott Fauque

RE: sirius radio (pronounced "serious")

To see if it is your internet connection or the Entre just go to http://www.siriusradio.com then register and listen to the sirius radio.

It is sounding pretty good on my connection. I get it for one and for two I don't hear any skip/shutter/etc.

BTW, it seems like the sirius radio comes from *.ibeam.com . You can check out the who by the domain http://betterwhois.com/bwhois.cgi?domain=ibeam.com ... 5 name servers...they are ready!

HTH, Scott Fauque

Cool!!! Same here. Now I can listen without the hassle. (but only from my computer.)

AND NO STUDDER!!!!

I have the same problem since 1.0.2.7.

Ok...My Internet raido again seems to be working more then it did.

I am currently listening to Sirius Radio - Alt POP Mix and it is palying...but it still studders. If I play something else other than Sirius...No studder. If I play any Sirius, studder.

Ok, no one answered my separate post. I know where to find the Sovereign bunch.

Do 24/96 discs play out of the digital output of the DV-5900?

Here's my problem. I've just tried a few of the DVD 24/96 discs. These aren't the same as the 5.1 DVD-A discs which you play out of the analog outputs of the DV-5900. I get the signal . . . and the DV-5900 is supposed to pass it.

Menu settings are correct. In the DV-5900 audio menu, PCM downconversion is set at "off" (which is the appropriate setting if one expects to get the 24/96 signal). Otherwise, when downconverted, I get the signal, but it's at 48khz.

In fact, I do get the signal at 96khz, plays for a few seconds .. . then cuts out . . .then plays again.

If any of you have any 24/96 discs (Chesky and that stuff), could you try it with your DV-5900? I'm talking digital output/PCM downconversion off, 24/96 playback.

This will help me determine if it's the processor or the player.

Nick :cool:

Don't all rush to your collection at once . . . I know you're all dying to help me out, here.

In any case, make sure of a few things:

1. The PCM setting in the DV-5900--must be off.

2. Make sure your processor will accept a 24/96 digital signal.

3. Make sure you're using one of the Digital Audio Discs, which are essentially two channel DVD discs, with limited video.

4. One of you, one of you, has to have all this stuff.

So please, with sugar on top, check this out and report back. We may have yet another Kenwood issue.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I can easily check this for you, but am away on business this week. If no one weighs in before then I'll test it for you this weekend.

Tom

Originally posted by Tom Blake
Nick,

I can easily check this for you, but am away on business this week. If no one weighs in before then I'll test it for you this weekend.

Tom

Actually, Tom, after you check this . . . you win one million dollars for being the first to offer!! Ahhh, unfortunately, payment is in Kenwood Sovereigns, which have sometimes demonstrated themselves to be less than face value.

But, thank you. I look forward to hearing from you. What's your processor, by the way?

Nick :cool:

Sorry Nick....

"Do 24/96 discs play out of the digital output of the DV-5900?"

I do not have them in the changer nor I think I own a disc like that. Unless that is a just a standard CD. (what to I know...I'm into video. :))

Nick,

LOL!

My processor is a Theta Casablanca II w/XTREME DACs (192 kHz capable). I have several DADs from Classic and Chesky so, again, can easily test this for you. Actually, I've never tried playing one of these in my 5900M as I use a different transport for audio-only duty (Pioneer DVL-91). I'm curious to see if this is a new problem with the 5900M myself! I'll let you know this weekend.

Tom

Looking forward to your tests, Tom. I've used two separate discs, and the result is the same. I've got the Lexicon MC-12B, which is also capable of 192khz, so there's no lack for processing capability.

In reality, this will be a small issue, since these discs are such a tiny minority in the land of software. But if it's a problem I want to know it.

Thanks again,

Nick :cool:

I talked with Kenwood the other day about the 24/96 issue, and they claimed they'd never heard of it. That may be true, but it doesn't seem like anyone has yet tried it. It could well be my processor, but if the choices for screwing up are Kenwood or Lexicon, Kenwood won't get the benefit of my doubts.

And, since I was on the phone with them, I asked about the multichanger support issue. Once again, the response was the height of non-information. We know about it, don't know when or if it will get fixed, and if you want to know the answer you literally have to talk to someone in Japan.

By the way, the recent Audio Advisor catalogue was received in the mail the other day. Kenwood 5900 and the Entre are offered for sale. The ad makes clear that the Entre can control up to 3 changers. Sure, blame Audio Advisor, but Kenwood can alert people as to this misinformation.

To those of you that have cautioned patience, I'd really like to know how long we're supposed to wait. It's been six months, and other than some tidbits given to David, we have nothing from Kenwood even acknowledging the problem. I'm really beginning to feel like I've been had. I like the product, but I'm really hoping for Pioneer to step up with the Digital Library and changers of its own. Expecting us to wait without any further word is getting old.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I for one am very tired of waiting! Unfortunately, I don't see very many options available to me. The one good thing that's come out of all this -- Kenwood has saved me alot of money. I intended to pick up a Kenwood Keg, Excelon Amps, Excelon Head Unit, and two additional DV-5900's -- it's pretty obvious that they won't be getting more of my hard earned cash anytime soon!

H

Nick,

I finally had a chance to check out a 2-channel 96/24 DVD for you tonight. The disc was "Dave's True Story - Sex Without Bodies" from Chesky. The disc did play through the coax digital out on the 5900M (not routed through Entre, but direct to my processor). PCM Downconversion was set to "off", and my processor reported receiving a 96K signal. The disc did play without stopping. However, there were frequent stutters and dropouts in the sound. I don't see these symptoms on my 96/24 output capable Pioneer transport. Since it sounds like you're seeing similar symptoms, it does appear that the 5900M has trouble outputting this signal from the digital outputs. Another glitch to add to the 5900M'S already long list :-( I only have 3 DAD discs, however, and since my Pioneer plays them fine it's not a huge deal for me. It would be nice if the 5900M would play them though! Please LMK if you have any questions or if there's something else you'd like me to look at.

Regards,

Tom

That's exactly what mine did. Plays . . . sometimes for as long as 10 seconds . . . then dropout . . . then back.

I'm actually relieved that the problem is in the 5900. I didn't want anything to be wrong with the Lexicon MC-12B.

Tom, since Kenwood professed complete ignorance over this when I phoned them the other day, perhaps sometime you might want to give them a call. I'd be interested in whether they tell you too that you're the "first" to have mentioned this problem.

This is not a significant issue, since there is a paucity of these discs out there to begin with. Nevertheless, the 24/96 discs are supposed to be the highest resolution discs available, and you just can't use them on the DV-5900, or at least not at the full resolution.

I'm up to 390 discs in my DV-5900, and I am not able to load the DVD-Audio discs without reaching the maximum. By the way, the Entre is useless with those discs, since there is nothing on OpenGlobe for them.

So, in order to continue to enjoy the system I thought I purchased, I'm going to have to purge some of the discs, or move them to the DV-5050M, which might as well not even be daisy chained to the DV-5900M, given the lack of control over it exercised by the Entre.

I really wish another manufacturer would step in and fill this void. No one, including myself, wants to ditch the product because of the promise it still holds. But the minute someone comes out with a competing system, I'm done with Kenwood. It has just failed in far too many respects, and the game-playing on the issues, particularly the multichanger control by the Entre, is now evident. Yeah, yeah, they keep having these unspecified "off the record" mystery persons deliver messages of hope through some people, but there's a Sgt. Schultz-like party line delivered when anyone actually calls them.

Tom, thank you for your efforts. To all other DV-5900 owners out there, we now have another problem.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

Since I had the same audio glitching with my Theta processor I'm 99% certain the problem lies with the 5900M and not your MC-12B. Both of our processors have high-end 192K DACs, so there's no doubt they can decode the 24/96 signal. It seems to me like there's a problem with the digital output section on the 5900M and it isn't capabale of passing the 24/96 bitsream cleanly. BTW I noticed this behavior from both the coax and the Toslink digital outputs. As you said, not a huge deal but disappointing nonetheless. I will call Kenwood tech support on this, but it may be a bit until I get to it. Buried at work right now!

This new problem is just further evidence that these products were shipped before they were ready for release, or their QA department is incompetent. I'm at 350 discs in my 5900M so I'm facing the same issue as you with respect to multi-changer control through Entre. However, even if they DID upgrade Entre to control 3 changers, as they promised, I'm not sure I'd put any more money into Kenwood products at this point. Like you, if Pioneer were to come out with a competing product I'd switch in a minute (at significant monetary loss, I'm sure). I've had nothing but great luck with Pioneer products and would feel much better with a 400 disc changer from them (or Sony) in my rack. Oh well, time will tell as for now the Kenwood Sovereign stuff is the only game in town. You have to give them credit for being cutting edge at least.

Tom

I'm surprised that all of us new Sovereign "field testers" don't feel angry enough to go confront Kenwood and demand fixes for the 5900M. Everyone seems resigned to accepting that since it's not software-updatable, that it's simply not updatable!

My B&K Ref30 isn't software updatable, but B&K has released several updates to their OS. Why can't Kenwood do the same for the 5900M?

Hmmm?

"Why can't Kenwood do the same for the 5900M?"

Every hear of MacroVision? (I know you have. ;)) To re-write the OS of the 5900 would require the entire OS to be re-written. Now this can be done for we all know that it can read a CDR. However, to write the new OS to the unit, all the codding needs to be re-written. This means if they send out a CDR to you to re-flash the OS on the unit, they also send you all the MacroVison coding on the CDW and thus can be hacked. This is something they can not do per copy-write issue.

My guess is they are looking into how this can be done.

The only issues I have with the 5900 is the 3 second layer change. That's it for me. The other issues are with the Entre and the only things left on my list are the multi-changer support, better DVD look up, Internet Radio studdering, and being able to get the movie descriptions.

Other than that...all is working well for me.

How about a chip update? Sure, I gotta bring it into my retailer for service, but still, a lot of the quirks/bugs/bummers could be resolved to make it a wonderful mega-changer vs. the "so close to being wonderful" changer it is today.

It will more than likly come down to that (again, my guess). But not a chip change but a software load. No reason to change the eprom when it can just be flashed with new code.

As far as..."so close to being wonderful". Well, like I had mentioned...The only issue I have with the changer itself is the 3 second layer change. Other than that...I do think it is wonderful as changers go. :D

Also, if you guys would just dump your Entres :) , you could easily chain up to 3 changers together for your total media library solution.

I don't have an Entre, so I feel no limitation to adding a 5050 to my 5900 to double my disk capacity.

I'm just sayin', that's all...

LOL...No way would I get rid of my Entre. I love the full graphic lookup of my media! That is why I got it in the first place was to control the changer. Still looking to control another changer mind you. But I do know developing new hardware and then software to control it does not happen in just a three or four months. :(

Originally posted by David Bott
But I do know developing new hardware and then software to control it does not happen in just a three or four months. :(

Well, I know SOMEBODY who doesn't work in Silicon Valley :D

P.S. Anybody heard anything about availability of the Axcess???

David,

Allow me to point you to a thread that "adds a little" to the one issue that you've mentioned...

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105285&highlight=DV5900M+issues

Note that these issues may be issues because we do not have the Entre. No matter, they are major usability issues that really are just frustrating and, in my opinion, easily remedied via OS/UI upgrade.


Originally posted by David Bott
It will more than likly come down to that (again, my guess). But not a chip change but a software load. No reason to change the eprom when it can just be flashed with new code.

As far as..."so close to being wonderful". Well, like I had mentioned...The only issue I have with the changer itself is the 3 second layer change. Other than that...I do think it is wonderful as changers go. :D

Originally posted by David Bott
LOL...No way would I get rid of my Entre. I love the full graphic lookup of my media! That is why I got it in the first place was to control the changer. Still looking to control another changer mind you. But I do know developing new hardware and then software to control it does not happen in just a three or four months. :(

You're right, David, developing such new hardware and software to control should take far longer than 3 or 4 months. Actually, it should have taken all the time from the beginning of the cosmos until the date that Kenwood released the Entre touting its capabilities.

In other words, it should have been done before they induced people to buy it on the basis that it was already done. I can't speak to the software/hardware issues. As a consumer sales practice, it's known as bait and switch.

Kenwood has control over its advertising. Despite the fact that some cute little retreats on the changer control issue have been made on its website, the Audio Advisor catalogue I just received tells me about this great product I can buy called the Entre, which controls up to three changers.

Sorry, there's just no excuse for it any more. Screwing up is one thing. Continuing to misrepresent is another.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Also, if you guys would just dump your Entres :) , you could easily chain up to 3 changers together for your total media library solution.

I don't have an Entre, so I feel no limitation to adding a 5050 to my 5900 to double my disk capacity.

I'm just sayin', that's all...


Uh, I guess that's true - as long as you don't mind having to keep some kind of written record in front of you as to which disc is in which changer. Because, in case you don't know, the changers will NOT aggregate data - you have to look through a completely separate list for each changer.

Doesn't sound usable to me, but I guess everyone has different expectations. That's why I sent my two back, I couldn't bear the following exchange:

[Wife] "Honey, let's watch Lethal Weapon 3".
[Me] "Okay, give me a minute."
[Wife] "What's taking so long?"
[Me] "Well, I have to look through two lists, one of 400 discs and the other of 200 discs. I can't sort them, so I need some time..."
[Wife, after long pause] "How much did we pay for this setup again?"

Obviously the above problem can be made better with searching, but to me it's just utterly ridiculous.


Mike

All-

I am in the process of setting up my Entre/DV5900M/ VR5700 receiver. I understand the Enter will switch inputs on the receiver from radio to DVD, etc.. when selecting media via the Entre, BUT......how do I reliably write a macro for when I want to select Tivo or DSS on my receiver. The horrible factory remote just toggles thru inputs. Does anyone have a Pronto CCF with discrete codes or a workaround? Thanks

On the VR-5700 remote you have to do through the motions of setting it up to control your tivo or dss, even if you don't plan to use it. Once you set up the 5700 remote it will switch directly to the correct input once you select the device you want to use. At that point you can teach your pronto the commands, even though you might have to press it several times before the Pronto can learn it. You are better off going to www.remotecentral.com and downloading the ccf for the vr-5700. I am sure they will have it there.

Originally posted by mikemav
All-

I am in the process of setting up my Entre/DV5900M/ VR5700 receiver. I understand the Enter will switch inputs on the receiver from radio to DVD, etc.. when selecting media via the Entre, BUT......how do I reliably write a macro for when I want to select Tivo or DSS on my receiver. The horrible factory remote just toggles thru inputs. Does anyone have a Pronto CCF with discrete codes or a workaround? Thanks

Is that true? If you select "all" it will not show you all the titles across all the changers? If that is the case then I might have to abandon kenwood as soon as the pioneer debuts. I guess it will be a race to see whether the entre is fixed before the pioneer debuts.

Originally posted by mdownard



Uh, I guess that's true - as long as you don't mind having to keep some kind of written record in front of you as to which disc is in which changer. Because, in case you don't know, the changers will NOT aggregate data - you have to look through a completely separate list for each changer.

Doesn't sound usable to me, but I guess everyone has different expectations. That's why I sent my two back, I couldn't bear the following exchange:

[Wife] "Honey, let's watch Lethal Weapon 3".
[Me] "Okay, give me a minute."
[Wife] "What's taking so long?"
[Me] "Well, I have to look through two lists, one of 400 discs and the other of 200 discs. I can't sort them, so I need some time..."
[Wife, after long pause] "How much did we pay for this setup again?"

Obviously the above problem can be made better with searching, but to me it's just utterly ridiculous.


Mike

How does it work with two changers without an Entre?
Are the lists completely separate, or is there anything tying them together?

Slocko-

I went to Remote Central and there are not CCF's for either the VR5700 or the Entre. Does anyone have them? And how would you directly get to the DSS or Tivo on the remote even if you set it up to control your devices? There are still only buttons for Music and Movie that scroll through the AV inputs on the receiver. Am I missing a function on the remote I don't see?

even though it seems that it's scrolling on the remote, it's not. When you setup the remote for a device, you are associating an input with a device. When you switch to that device it sort of runs an internal macro. It is actually sending the receiver a discrete code for that input. The trick is to capture the signal at the right moment when it's sending the discrete code. Try searching remote central for one of the lesser cousins like 507 or 407. Those codes should work.

I don't have a pronto, I just have a low end RS 1994, but was able to upgrade it's code base and add support for the vr-407. The 407 had discrete codes for the inputs. Before that, I had learned the discrete inputs from the kenwood remote, but like I said you have to play with it to get the timing correct.

One more thing, the 4700 does support discrete on/off but you will have to learn it from a vr-5700 remote or find the ccf for the 5700.


Originally posted by mikemav
Slocko-

I went to Remote Central and there are not CCF's for either the VR5700 or the Entre. Does anyone have them? And how would you directly get to the DSS or Tivo on the remote even if you set it up to control your devices? There are still only buttons for Music and Movie that scroll through the AV inputs on the receiver. Am I missing a function on the remote I don't see?

Sorry if this is covered ground. It's hard to keep up with this post. Perhaps an Entre system newbie FAQ may be valuable. Anyway, I wanted to know if it is possible to identify tracks on an MP3 CD from the Entre. I have several CD's full of hundreds of MP3 tracks, all of them named in the file structure (i.e. "B52_01.mp3") When I load those discs into the changer, all the Entre sees is Unknown Disc with hundreds of Unknown Tracks. The changer itself deisplays the (partial) file names, but the Entre OSD does not. Any solution without tediously manually entering them all in Entre? Also, is it true that the Media Manager software will only work with a home-PNA network? Now my Entre is set using dial-up, but I have a wireless network as well I could connect it to when I get the ethernet USB adaptor. Will the Media Manager not work with the Ethernet connection?

I will like to know also. I was under the assumption it would aggregate all the players. If it does not, that is another major design flaw. If it does not, would be forced to buy the entre once it can control multiple changers or go with Pioneer's new product when ever it becomes available if the features are there.

I am with Nick. Kenwood should have never released expensive hardware with so many shortcomings. The people who spend this kind of money have high expectations and are sophisticated users.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
How does it work with two changers without an Entre?
Are the lists completely separate, or is there anything tying them together?

Originally posted by slocko
Is that true? If you select "all" it will not show you all the titles across all the changers? If that is the case then I might have to abandon kenwood as soon as the pioneer debuts. I guess it will be a race to see whether the entre is fixed before the pioneer debuts.

Yes it's true, thus my post. The only caveat to my statement is that I was using two 5050's. I suppose there's a slight chance that using two 5900's would produce a different result, but I certainly wouldn't be willing to bet on that.


Mike

ay caramba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

mikemav,

I hope you're sitting down!

The Entre does not read ID3 tag information from an MP3 disc stored in the DV-5900M -- Kenwood will blame OpenGlobe and OpenGlobe will blame Kenwood. I'll take OpenGlobe's side on this one, the 5900 does not read ID3 tag information, so the Entre is not getting the information it needs.

You must also be sure to not create MP3 discs that contain the same number of tracks. The Entre will see two discs with the same number of tracks as the same disc. I hope this makes sense.

If you're good at using Microsoft Office and you're not afraid of Excel or Access -- you should have no problems with these instructions.

PLEASE -- If you do this and it messes up your Entre's catalog -- don't blame me! You're doing this at your own risk!

Here goes nothin'

PART I - Getting the track information via the Entre

* your Entre must be connected to your home network and you must have a PC running the current version of Media Manager.

* load the disc containing MP3 files into the Entre

* wait for the Entre to display the track information for all the files

* go back to your PC, open up Media Manager, and connect to your Entre

* go to the folder that contains the Media Manager software

* go to the folder that looks something like ..\Kenwood\000178003\Database

* open up the Access database in that directory MediaManager.mdb

* export the tMusictracks table to an Excel spreadsheet

* you should sort the data by OGcdID & Track ID (try to keep everything grouped correctly)

* you're looking for the rows that contain the track information for the disc that you just inserted into the Entre -- you should be able to tell which rows you want by the information in each of the columns (Track, Title, and DARFilePath)

* save the rows that contain the track titles into another spreadsheet -- the goal is to have a list of track numbers and track titles for the disc stored in a separate spreadsheet -- you'll block select the titles for all the rows and then paste them into the Title column in another spreadsheet in the next steps (you won't be using any of the other information)

* close Media Manager and be sure that you're no longer in the Access database.

Are we having fun yet?

PART II - Applying the track information to another disc

* go back to your changer and put the MP3 disc in an empty slot in the changer (remember the slot number)

* wait for the Entre to detect this new disc (it'll show up under Unknown)

* go back to your PC

* startup Media Manager

* make a change to any of the tracks in any album (DO NOT CHANGE anything that belongs to the disc that you want to title), for example go to "Bird" (it was part of the music installed on your Entre) and change Bird to Bird and a space -- then click somewhere else in the window

* go to the folder that looks something \Kenwood\000178003\Database

* open up the Access database in that directory

* export the tMusictracks table to an Excel spreadsheet

* open up the spreadsheet and locate the rows that contain the track information for the disc you want to title (the DARFilePath will look something like, ''erp://localhost/ExternalChanger?changer=KDVD1;slot=335;track=126"

* go to the other spreadsheet which contains the titles for the tracks (from the first step).

* copy them and then paste them into the tMusicTracks spreadsheet

* this is where you'll want to be very careful -- be sure that you're not pasting over information for another album!

* go back to Access and delete all the rows in the tMusicTracks table -- close the tMusicTracks table

* import the tMusicTracks spreadsheet

* go back to Media Manager and go to the "Unknown Album" album -- it should display all the track information

* syncronize and you're done.

I realize this all seems a little sick -- but I have a ton of music and the Entre just doesn't have the disk space I needed. If the Entre supported multiple changers, I would not be doing this. I decided to find a way around the Media Manager when it was obvious that typing in track information for 50 MP3 discs would take me a LONG, LONG, time!

Regards,

Heroildo

triple ay caramba!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I concur, I also have two 5050M's and the lists and categories do not aggregate across the changers. However I have a Pronto and use a program called Super Nudelist which generates ccf screens from a list of discs, presently it does not support the Kenwood disc selection routine but I have been working with the developer and expect a version which does in the next few weeks. I had two Onkyo changers that I sold to buy the Kenwoods and the program worked flawlessly with them. I am able to maintain lists by title and genre' in the Pronto and select accordingly. At least that will provide me with a workaround. It's a real shame that the state of the art in DVD changers has such a poorly designed human interface. I have spoken to Kenwood on several occasions and am less than thrilled with the support I have received, I know from David's posts that he is still very optimistic about the eventual resolution of all these issues I wish I could share that opinion but at this point I think I have been had.


Tom

Hi....I never once stated that they were working on any changes in the human interface. If they are, I am not aware of it.

I am still very optimistic on the 3 second layer change issue, the multi-changer support through the Entre, and better DVD lookup and on screen information. (Again, via the Entre.)

I say this because I do not even use the OSD for the changer itself...So, it was never really an issue of mine that I was upset about. I am not saying is could not be improved...for it clearly could. But I have not heard about any changes in this area as of yet.

Remember, all the issues mentioned are clearly not issues for all people. Some of the issues would take back seats to other isssues.

As far as being "had".... wish I can say I can agree, but I really can not. They only area people can say that was the bases on the Entre supporting more than one changer. This was clearly stated from what we have all read, but alas, it was not able to in it's current state. However...I will say again, this issue is being worked on and from what I have been told...it is a priority item.

Be aware you more then likely will need to send the changer in for upgrading for some of the issues...something I will be very happy to do when they have the new firmware.

Hi

I'm sorry...I was generalizing. You have never talked about the human interface. My statement about being "had" primarily is indicative of my inability to "manage" a disk library that exceeds one changer, something that is available in all of the other changers that are on the market now and something that is still implied in Kenwoods advertiseing. I do not have an Entre but I have tried using the Netnamer and it will not interface with more than one changer at a time. I guess that I am partially to blame because I assumed that when a company brings out a product that says you can daisy chain three of them together that there will be a certain interoperability between them to allow them to function as a single entity. I am not trying to put words in your mouth or imply anything on your behalf, I appreciate this oppertunity that you provide for people to express different opinions openly and honestly. I would have no problem sending my units back for an upgrade (even though it would be a lot of work) if it would allow for the proper operation of my units.

Tom

Originally posted by David Bott

Remember, all the issues mentioned are clearly not issues for all people. Some of the issues would take back seats to other isssues.

As far as being "had".... wish I can say I can agree, but I really can not. They only area people can say that was the bases on the Entre supporting more than one changer. This was clearly stated from what we have all read, but alas, it was not able to in it's current state. However...I will say again, this issue is being worked on and from what I have been told...it is a priority item.

Be aware you more then likely will need to send the changer in for upgrading for some of the issues...something I will be very happy to do when they have the new firmware.

David:

I agree that the only basis of real disgruntlement is the multichanger support, but it shouldn't be diminished as something which is not signficant--it goes right to the heart of the purchase of the Entre, the DV-5900, and any additional changers. That alone is approximately $4000 worth of equipment that might not have been purchased, if the true state of affairs had been known. For that matter, I could care less about the three second layer change. Hear that, Kenwood? I don't consider it a defect. Quit working on that and start working on the multichanger support.

But, David, your defense of Kenwood on this point is based squarely on what you "have been told" . . . as you just said. In other words, you have been told that the multichanger issue will be fixed, and ergo you've urged our patience on the point.

I have no doubt that you have been told this, because you're a great guy and wouldn't tell us otherwise. The problem is that we didn't buy this stuff from you, and anytime anyone else asks Kenwood when it will get fixed, or even whether it will get fixed, there's only a statement that it's being looked at, with no commital of when it will get done, or whether it will ever get done.

David, I've asked them that same question on at least 5 occasions. The answer is the same noncommital "we'll see," that continues to frustrate me.
And anyone else that I've read of having asked has gotten the same response . . . except what they tell you.

So, are they telling you one thing and something far less to everyone else that asks? You bet. Do you think it's because Kenwood wants to leverage your respected status as a moderator and founder of this forum, just to keep the wolves from the door? If that sounds like a rhetorical question . . . .

Please make no mistake about it: I am confident that David is accurately conveying what Kenwood is telling him. I've had the opportunity to talk with David over the phone on a few occasions, we've shared PMs on the subject, and David's word is beyond reproach. I am questioning Kenwood, not David.

When Kenwood offers the fix, I'll send it in, but I won't believe it until then. And, in the interim, if a competing product comes out, I'll dump the Kenwood as quick as a heartbeat. I really hope I get that opportunity.

Nick :cool:

Hay Nick...I do agree with you as you know.

You said.... "... but it shouldn't be diminished as something which is not significant..."

Where did I ever do that? I even keep saying it is an issue of mine.

Yupper...I talk with Kenwood and I yes I know they can tell me things they want me to convey per my status to maybe keep people at bay. But I also feel this is not the case. If it proves to be wrong, then I was had all around and shame on them. Coming from this site, it would not put them in a very good status to the vast number of people that read this site to do this if it was never meant to be. Thus I think they know this and that the issue/solution is truly being worked on.

I am just waiting for the day for them to tell me "hey day...great news! Go post it!" :)

Hi

I have seen other posts about dropouts on 24/96 discs but I am having a different dropout problem. If I play a disc encoded with BOTH a Dolby and a DTS soundtrack I get dropouts on the Dolby track but the DTS plays flawlessly if I play discs that have EITHER Dolby or DTS everything is also fine. It cant be a connection or processor related problem (I rechecked everything). I checked all my options in the setup menu and everything appears correct according to what I read in the manual. I am not having a problem with Dolby material from Laserdiscs or Directv. And last but not least I have two changers daisy chained together and they both do the same thing...anyone with any ideas about this one.


Tom

Hey guys,

I sent an e-mail earlier this week lamenting my purchase of my DV-5900M to the webmaster account at kenwood's web site. Yesterday I got a response from Mr. Brian Towne, National Product Manager from Kenwood USA. I haven't written him back yet, but if I can manage to establish a short dialogue with him, maybe I can pass on some of the ideas and issues here to him. I'll post my email and his response in entirety if anyone is interested.

Here's part of his reponse that I found particularly interesting:

One other misperception is the MP-3 on digital out. The VR-510 does not
have, like the vast majority of integrated A/V receivers, an MP-3 decoder,
so a digital connection is not possible. You are correct, the DV-5900M is
upgradeable. However, only at an authorized Kenwood Service center. I
anticipate, that in conjunction with functional enhancements of the Kenwood Sovereign Entre' Entertainment Hub, there will be feature enhancements in the future. At which time Kenwood will be contacting owners who have registered on line. This limitation is related to DVD copy protection software distribution limitations imposed on Kenwood by the content community and not something that we would prefer, but at this point, not something legally Kenwood can do anything about.

Hopefully more to follow...

Michael

Oh! My heart skipped a beat when he confirmed that the 5900M is upgradeable, and will likely BE upgraded in the future!

Can you send him this link in your correspondence:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=105285&highlight=5900M+wish (click on it and copy it out of the address line of your browser, since this bulletin board won't display the full URL in the message)

The title of the thread is DV-5900M Hopes and Wishes (for Kenwood), and it outlines all of the UI gaffes and other abnormalities that would be welcome fixes to be incorporated into a service upgrade.

Thanks!

FYI...Brian Towne has been reading and sending me info to post in this very thread, look back some pages. :) Glad to read the above though. Glad to read his responded directly.

David,

I just read your post where you reveal what Mr. Towne has shared with you. Until your last post, it wasn't clear to me that you were revealing info directly from Kenwood. Thanks!

I am very concerned, however, that you are suggesting that Kenwood is not promising to fix of the UI issues in the 5900M.

May I suggest that many on this board are underplaying the UI issues with the 5900M because you (collectively) have an Entre? There's no doubt that Entre owners have very legitimate issues that need to be resolved, but I am slightly concerned that some of the major beefs with the 5900M by itself may be overlooked because of the high-profile pressure Entre owners are putting on Kenwood.

Yes, we 5900M owners are looking for UI fixes that currently do not render the unit unusable, but they do make it so frustrating and difficult to manage that most owners are already looking for either a ROM fix or an alternative from another vendor. This can't be what Kenwood had in mind when selling an $1800 unit under the Sovereign brand they are trying to give credibility.

The gist: If Kenwood will invest in fixing some basic interface problems with the 5900M, they have the opportunity to create some serious loyalty and, as a result, the grass-roots energy needed to make Sovereign a serious contender in the mid-fi market.

Recent anecdote: My fiancee tried her hardest to play a CD she liked from the 5900M -- a disc to relax to after a very difficult week at work (Enya). Good for her -- she was able to select the CD and play it! Kudos to Kenwood for that part of the UI.

But, then, when the CD was over, the NEXT DISC in the changer (The Offspring) automatically started playing and scared the living crap out of her as a result -- completely ruining her relaxed state. Is *this* what Kenwood had in mind when developing a music library system?! When I got home, she yelled at me that all my "wonderful investments" in our entertainment system were useless and stupid. You can imagine how wonderful that feels after investing so much in the 5900M. :(

David, I'm sure you could empathize with this situation -- and when you speak with Kenwood, I hope you can relate this type of problem with the same energy you use when relating Entre frustrations.

I still think the the unit has a ton of potential, and I still think it's key to my home theater/hifi, but you could understand how it's the little things like this that would make all the difference in the world.

Hi Guy...

As I have mentioned before....They have items that take priority over other items as any business would do. I have never asked about the UI for I do not use the UI. As you mentioned...It is not something that makes your unit not useable....but just a pain.

Now, don't get me wrong...the UI could really be very much improved...I have even said that. But again, I am talking with Kenwood on other issues and have never even mentioned the UI. As far as what they can do to fix it...I do not know. The good news is it is software based so it can be worked on....but do they consider it needed to be done and at what expense? Another issue their is all the documentation for it would also need to be changed. My guess is if a person send in a unit for updating, they would receive a docment with the changes to the manual. This all comes down to costs too I would think.

As far as the next disc playing...is their not an option to either have auto play or not (the next disc that is)? I only use my changer for DVD and not CD so I would do not know.

Oh..."serious contender"....I feel it is the only one in this market that can do what it does. I say this in relation to the Entre. This is the only system like this that is not $8000 or more. Did you really spend $1800 on your changer?

Again..Don't get me wrong...I have no clue if they are looking into UI changes. Again...I have not asked. And I think I know when I do bring it up I will get something to the effect that they are working on other issues first. (or maybe that it is already being worked on.)

re: Priorities

There's not denying that profit and revenue drive priorities. And the most successful businesses can accurately assess what will drive both -- both directly and indirectly.

My "business case" to Kenwood around the 5900M is both direct and indirect:

Direct: There are many people who visit AVSForum who will not or did not buy the 5900M because of the myriad of complaints about it right here on this board. What percentage of revenue am I talking about being lost? This I cannot tell you, and is left up to a market research project that Kenwood would have to perform.

Indirect: How do products become "hits"? How do you exceed all expectations and have a product breakthrough? By doing everything Kenwood did with the Sovereign line (Entre/5900, etc.) functionally... but also following through with the support that befits the mid-fi space that the Sovereign line is portending to be apart of. This means acting like other manufacturers in this space. I'll tell you what, the 5900M will not become a blockbuster hit because of its current UI issues. You know why? It cannot muster up the "buzz" that is needed from the enthusiast camp because we all expect more from the UI. It's just that simple. Will it sell well? Sure -- it's getting good press... but it will not go beyond a marginal success.. where it truly could be a breakthrough product, IMHO.

For instance: B&K -- they send out ROM updates to fix bugs and problems. On the Ref30, they started out with 2.0 (I believe) and we're now up to 2.08.

Yeah, there are costs associated with supporting products -- and sometimes that means printing out a new manual (or at least an addendum) and sending out new chips to be installed. That's part of the overall profit equation that Marketing is responsible for before pricing a product. I shed no tears for Kenwood supporting their Sovereign line... car manufacturers sometimes have to recall and fix tens of thousands of cars because of problems... a new chip and a few sheets of paper doesn't have high manufacturing costs associated with it.

No, I did not spend $1800, but that is Kenwood's retail price -- and is a statement as to where they see the value proposition of their product in the market.

All I'm saying is that it's very clear to everyone who has a 5900M (w/o Entre) that the UI is flawed to the point that we're all making noise about it. David, you seem to have the closest link to people in Kenwood that can make a difference, and I am appealing to you to include our pleas in your communications with Kenwood -- and not limit them to the Entre alone.

Thank you,

Jon has a point. The 5900 is, by Kenwood's own design, "unique" enough that it merits its own fixes. It is set apart--again, by Kenwood's own design--by its DVD-Audio capability as well as the Faroudja processing.

Kenwood really shouldn't be saying that it will get around to addressing this issue, once it gets done with the Entre. That's the one-man-mechanic at the garage talking. Both should be getting attention now, within reason.

The really mystifying part of the UI is that it's almost as if Kenwood took the existing platforms--the Pioneer and the Sony--and set about to really making it bad. Let's face it, anyone with a changer wants to be able, at a minimum, to scroll from a list of titles. The Sony was damnably slow, though the Pioneer is great, at least in this respect. The problem with the 5900 is that it requires a byzantine set of commands just to get to the list, which should be a starting point.

Interestingly, in some of my frustrations with the Entre, I've seriously considered pitching it, and just using the 5900 daisy chained to the 5050. It's the vastly improved interface of the Entre, when compared to the abysmal interface of the 5900, that's kept the Entre in my cabinet.

Nick :cool:

Speaking of the 5900 Title List - I'd like to see a couple of changes to it and the associated NetName DV software, namely:

Using NetNamer, OSD and Front Panel:
Enter Track Titles for DVD-Audio/Video (you can only get this from DVD-Text discs now)

Using OSD:
View, select and enter track titles
Enter lowercase characters w/ keyboard

Using OSD or Front Panel:
Override title, artist and track text loaded from text disc

I'm curious if anyone else has had this happen to them. A couple months ago I setup a 5900 for my uncle and it has been working well for him. I got a call the other night that it wasn't working and was making odd sounds. So I told him to unplug it and I drove over there.

Looking in through the window I saw that when it turned on the carousel tried to move but seemed to be stuck on something. I figured that someone had bumped into the changer and knocked over some disks inside (this had happened before with his old sony changer) but he insisted that no one had been near it.

I pulled the unit out and took the cover off of it. Turns out that when the player had tried to return a DVD that had been playing it missed it's slot and instead jammed it in-between 2 other discs. The empty slot it was supposed to go in was 2 slots over. So with the DVD jammed between 2 others it stuck up too far and was hitting the plastic around the carousel. I put the offending disk back in it's slot and everything worked fine.

So my question is, has this happened to any of you before? or is this just a freak occurrence?

-apnar

Apnar,

That's never happened to me. The unit has worked flawlessly since I bought it a few months ago.

Everyone,

I called up Kenwood support to complain about the UI issues, and I was pretty quickly rebuffed, with the tech saying, plainly, there will most likely never be an upgrade to the 5900M. Much more likely, they'll release a new unit with updates to the interface.

I know he's just a front-line tech, but what a horrible thing to say. I then asked him if he would forward my request to Marketing, and he said he would see what he could do. I went on to say that it's OK for KENWOOD to have a philosophy like that, but I do not think it's an appopriate tact for the Sovereign brand. Kenwood better "get" the difference, or else their "elite" brand will disappear faster than you can say "user experience."

Apnar,

I have had the same thing happen about 3 times. Each time I moved the misplaced disc and the unit operates fine afterwards (it has been at least a month between each occurence). I have been afraid that the binding would somehow damage the carousel mechanism but it seems to be okay. I am hoping this is not a design problem and will go away with more use...

Apnar,

Five months of use and no problems like what you mentioned yet.

Ken

Same here for tha it is worth.

I have not been able to figure the following out... When pressing the "System Power" on the remote (Poertouch III, included with the VR-5900) the Entre, VR5900 and the MX-5000 goes from standby to on. The DV-5900M DVD player is not turned on though. Has anyone been able to program the "system power" button to also turn on the DVD player, if there is a macro that can be assigned to this botton? Or alternatively, if I have configured the system incorrectly and the DVD player actually should be turned on when pressing the system on button?? Comments from anyone with PowerTouch III experience and a DV5900M would be appreciated...

Thanks

Not that you want to hear this....But you just may want to leave the DVD Changer on all the time. One reason is that it wants to play the last disc that was loaded when it is turned on. (That is unless some one posted the way around this and I forgot. :D)

Regarding the 'stuck DVD' issue with the 5900M, I've had this happen once, and it's no big deal to fix - there are a bunch of screws holding the cover in place, but once the cover is off it's easy to correct a problem. I can't say the same for the Pioneer changer - when a DVD got stuck in mine, it actually damaged the carousel drive mechanism :(

I was impressed by how tightly the DVDs are held in place in the 5900M - I think it's probably not necessary to take the DVDs out when transporting the unit as long as things don't get too rough in transport. Not that I'm advocating this - don't come screaming at me if you do this and end up with a changer full of loose disks :D

Ponziani,

Thanks for the insight... good to know!

Man, what a thread!

What a great forum... and thank god. I fully expect the system to support 3 DVD changers daisy-chained. The note on the web site would have been enough for me.

Thanks to all for saving me from a very expensive mistake.

Originally posted by BigRed


What a great forum... and thank god. I fully expect the system to support 3 DVD changers daisy-chained. The note on the web site would have been enough for me.

Thanks to all for saving me from a very expensive mistake.

Yep, there's a lot to be said against early adoption. I assume you meant that you "fully expected" control of up to 3 changers as, I've just noticed, the Kenwood website still claims to this day.

Those sly devils.

Nick :cool:

check out this thread:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=996944#post996944

Hopefully these guys can figure out how to implement multi-changer support if Kenwood can't do it.

David,

Since you seem to have been in communication with Kenwood (possibly a product manager there), I'd like to ask that you forward along the following letter.


Dear Kenwood,

I'm writing to request some technical information about the PC-Link functionality of some of Kenwoods CD/DVD MegaChangers.

First, a little background.

Over a year ago I was in the market to (finally) purchase a CD MegaChanger. In reviewing the offerings from various manufacturers, I came across the Kenwood CD-425M and was immediatley drawn to the PC-Link functionality it provided. The possibilities of being able to interface the changer up to a PC to name/manage/control my CD collection was a powerful draw. I bought one on the spot.

Then the disappointment of the NetNamer application set in. It was less than I had expected (granted my expectations were probably a little high). Being that I am a software developer, I was certain that an alternative could be written in my spare time that would satisfy my needs. I contacted Kenwood at that time to inquire about information regarding the serial protocol used to communicate with the device. My inquirys either were ignored or refused.

I started to write the software anyways. I have since persuaded a friend to purchase a Kenwood CD changer since he was also impressed with the functionality provided by the unit, and the usefulness of the software I was developing.

I have just purchased a Kenwood DV-5900M, again because of the technical specs and the PC-Link functionality. And again, I'm less than satisfied with the NetNamer application.

I wholeheartedly feel that it would be in Kenwoods best interest to facilitate hobbiests like myself to develop software solutions that unlock the potential of the PC-Link functionality. A small amount of effort could result in a breakthrough product for Kenwood. The sort of ground swell that could happen with people like myself evangelizing the great things that can be done with Kenwood components could lead to a true success for Kenwood. It is also something that your competitors will be forced to catch up with.

I'm simply asking for a description of the PC-Link protocol commands, and the meaning of the paramters to those commands. I don't expect Kenwood to go out of their way to support my efforts in any way other than a protocol description.

I don't think Kenwood has anything to worry about such information being misused (by a competitor or future competitor). Pioneer, Denon, etc all provide such information upon request. As for the Entre', that unit will compete on its own merits as an integrated hardware/software based device and the features it provides (MP3 playing, Internet Radio, etc). My software only solution for integration to a CD/DVD changer would be of no interest to a potential Entre' customer (they expect more, a lot more, than some hobbiest could provide).

I think Kenwood has come a long way in showing that it can be innovative in its product functionality and technical specifications. I also think that Kenwood would be well served by providing technical information that allows the potential of its products to be fully utilized. I know that myself and others would be great champions of Kenwood components when we can show off these wonderful capabilities.

I'm not alone in these thoughts, and would appreciate a response as to whether Kenwood can satisfy my request for information. Please feel free to contact me at the e-mail address below.

Robert Currey
avalonforest@centurytel.net

Letter sent on to Brian.

Thanks David ...

Here's hoping this time I get a response ...

Rob

Found out he is over seas...May be a few days. :)

how do you search within a thread? I need to find info that was mentioned about setting up a macro the stops the last disc from playing. I know a delay of a certain amount of time was mentioned. 24 pages to browse through is too many!!!!!!

Sorry...No way to search just in a thread. However, when you do a search and go into a thread...your serach words are Hi-Lighted so you can stop them.

Sorry the thread is so long. :)

I posted that. If you have a pronto its, power button, stop, delay 0.1 sec,stop.

Robert....In reply to your above letter...

---Snip---

David,

I hope everything is going well for you. I'm currently in the third of a 4 country tour. Please pass on to Mr. Curry that we have had numerous requests for the protocol and I can simply not provide support. I will consider his proposal and respond directly upon my return to the US, the week of the 29th.

Regards,

Brian

---End Snip---

I don't believe anyone is expecting or even asking for Kenwood to support them in the use of the protocol description. We would be thrilled to have an English document describing the protocol. Failing that, I'm sure we could get a Japanese version of the document translated if Kenwood would provide one. We only need enough of a description to figure things out through experimentation.

I for one would be happy to sign a non-disclosure agreement stipulating among other things that the document is provided as-is and that Kenwood will not support it.

/jab

This doesn't surprise me at all!!!! HEY KENWOOD WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO OVER PAID FOR YOUR INEPT PRODUCT! You have done nothing to solve any of the issues with the player and I doubt you ever will! BUYER BEWARE! What makes me mad is when you have a group of people over and a movie starts to digital artifact and then stops altogether. Then one of your freinds says, how much did you pay for it, you answer red faced,sixteen hundred dollars, there reply,boy they saw you coming. I'll tell you one thing the next mega changer that hits the market this piece of junk goes out the window!

I'm certain posts like that will give Kenwood an incentive to cooperate on this issue. :rolleyes:

It is extremely unlikely that anything that can done using the serial protocol would assist you with your issue, which sounds more like a defective player or bad discs than anything else. If you feel this issue is prevalent, I suggest you start a poll of 5050M/5900M owners to see how many are experiencing it.

/jab

vaha...

You are WAY off line here and I concure you may have a defective player for I have NEVER had an issue like you mentioned with over 300 loaded DVD's. Are you renting your DVD's by chance? If so...Clean them before you use them.

Hey wait....their are others units already you can buy seeing you seem to not be very happy.

If I read the above right by Brian, He may relese it but without support for it. At least he will look into it.

hi all,

I'm a little confused by the short note Brian sent David ...

First I read "... I can simply not provide support", then I see "I will consider his proposal and respond directly ..."

So at first glance it is a "refusal" and then its "under consideration". Hopefully when Brian gets a chance, we'll learn more.

As I wrote in the letter (and Jab reiterated) ...

"I'm simply asking for a description of the PC-Link protocol commands, and the meaning of the paramters to those commands. I don't expect Kenwood to go out of their way to support my efforts in any way other than a protocol description."

I personally have no problem with any documentation that is provided will be "as-is" and that Kenwood is not bound in any way to support it.

Rob

I believe that David's interpretation is correct. Brian said he would consider releasing the document, but that he could not offer any support in its use.

I think everyone is in agreement that we hoped for nothing more and would be delighted with this level of assistance. It would place Kenwood on a level playing field with Pioneer, for example.

I'd like to thank Brian for looking into this.

/jab

While I feel your frustration, I am sure your problem is a dirty disc. I buy lots of previewed movies and I have learned that you have to clean them before putting them in the kenwood. It's a very sensitive laser, maybe because of all the formats it can read.

The Pioneer is much more accomodating, but I don't think the 5900's lack of ability to play dirty discs is a flaw. Pioneer's next dvd player may very well be more finicky with dirty discs.


Originally posted by vaha
This doesn't surprise me at all!!!! HEY KENWOOD WHY DON'T YOU CARE ABOUT THE PEOPLE WHO OVER PAID FOR YOUR INEPT PRODUCT! You have done nothing to solve any of the issues with the player and I doubt you ever will! BUYER BEWARE! What makes me mad is when you have a group of people over and a movie starts to digital artifact and then stops altogether. Then one of your freinds says, how much did you pay for it, you answer red faced,sixteen hundred dollars, there reply,boy they saw you coming. I'll tell you one thing the next mega changer that hits the market this piece of junk goes out the window!

They are new disc not rented. These disc have played before to perfection. Maybe I do have a defective player. One thing though, I take exception to the fact DAVID, that you said "you are way off line here" IS this not the forum where we can discuss the multiple problems of the player! If not I guess I must have misread all the other complaints. I'm not going to respond to anymore post in this manner because it does nothing to resolve any of the issues. HEY! I'm going to be just like kenwood and ignore it !

Sorry to say your were off line in your tone and assumptions that Kenwood is doing nothing. You also called the product inept and again are are off base with the remark. Even your last sentence in your above posts shows this.

Again...If you are not renting DVD's or the one you are using are not marked or dusted....then you very well may have a defective player. Your remarks made were based unjust in this case for if you have read the thread...you may be aware that it seems this is not an issue with the player that is any try of defect.

Anyone knows if there is a plan to add the DVD data to the Media Manager software? It would be a great improvement to be able to edit the DVD information on a PC instead of using the remote control to enter information and perform searches of DVD'd not found by the automatic DVD lock-up feature.

Also, in one of the first posts by David the following statement was made

"DVD Lockup - In my case 27% of the movies are not found. After looking into this, I have found that they were stored in OpenGlobe with 4x3 movies and not widescreen. Between the two, they have different code numbers. Work Around - Go to the unknown DVD in the movie guide list, press OPTION, Select Edit Disc. Use the SEARCH FOR Disc option and type in some of the movie name and do the search. It will then look up the title in OpenGlobe and then bring you back to the edit screen where you press REC to save it. Good news is, this disc info is then sent back to OpenGlobe so then next time it is looked up under that disc ID, it should find it. "

Is the last sentence there true, i.e. is the information on the missing DVD'd actually sent back to OpenGlobe to be added to the auto lock-up feature? If so I find it strange that many of the common DVD titles are still not recognized, such as the "God Father - I" DVD. Since I got my system a couple of months back I have not seen any improvement in the feature, i.e. all the DVD's that was not recognized when I first got the system are still not recognized...

The auto-lockup feature should be an easy issue to address, so I am a little bit concerned that nothing has been done over the last few months to take care of this from Kenwood or OpenGlobe. The CD lockup function works great, but of course, the DVD-A is totally lacking still.

I was told the data is sent back....Maybe I was told incorrectly or the person did not understand my question when asked.

It would make sense to have the data sent back to be analyzed and added to the database. DAvid, when I read your statement at first I thought it was a great move. This is exactly how the DVD Profiler database has been built, with fantastic results. The DVD profiler is probably the most complete DVD database available to date, using this very concept where the users are adding all the information on new DVD releases. With a customer base of a few thousand users there should not be an issue where each one of these users are forced to enter the same DVD information on a common DVD release redundantly, wasting hundreds of hours of valuable time to the sociaty...

Another note on the Media Manager, I hope many additional enhancements are planned for the future, such as 2-way transfer of MP3 files. Currently it's only possible to transfer MP3 files to the Entre - not the other way around... It would be nice to be able to make back-ups etc by transferring the MP3 files to a PC.

Hello all:

I've been looking at the 5900 and entre system for the last month, and read the last 25 pages of posts on the system. I'm planning on setting up a hometheater for my father that'll be simple to use. I'm planning on using a pioneer elite 520, an onkyo 898 reciever, (the entre and 5900) from kenwood, marantz 9200 pronto-type remote, cable box and digital cable.

Now can someone please list the 4 or 5 main issues that are still unresolved with the entre and 5900?

1.) long layer pauses??

2) automatic disc play when powered up??

3) occasional lockups??

4) finding 80% or more of listed titles with open globe??

5) ease of use with open globe navigation??

Now I was planning on using a marantz 9200 color remote, any potential problems in trying to make it totaly automated??? There has to be a work-around with a macro of some sort to stop the player from automatically playing when powered up.

How long are the layer switches for most users with the 5900?? Any examples.

Found the 5900 for $999.98 at the kenwood outlet store refurbished, comes with a 90-day warranty, but for $35 more you can extend that to 2-years.

I know the sony 875 300 disc will be out soon with an improved graphical interface.........but its probably still nothing compared with th entre.....right?

Thanks for your help.

John

Hello and welcome to the site...

1.) long layer pauses??

Yes..Still an issue but should be resolved with a firmware update when released. Unit will more than likely need to be sent into a service center for this to happen.

2) automatic disc play when powered up??

Yes...Still and issue and again would require a firmware update. Note...you can leave the changer on all the time. It is not an issue and draws very little power.

3) occasional lockups??

I assume the Entre? Yes...But I have not had it happen in over 2 months.

4) finding listed titles with open globe??

CD not an issue. DVD is still some of an issue but most can be found with the work around mentioned. This is being worked on by OpenGlobe to be resolved. I have over 300 discs loaded...only 9 not found.

5) ease of use with open globe navigation??

Not sure what you mean by this. The Entre has very, very easy navigation for whatever you need is.


You mention not using the Kenwood receiver. For ease of use...I would suggest looking at the Kenwood receiver. The Entre controls it directly. What I mean is...if you change to DVD, the input auto changes. Change to RAIDO, again, it changes to the right input. It just all ties right in.

Hope this helps.

Originally posted by David Bott
Hello and welcome to the site...

1.) long layer pauses??

Yes..Still an issue but should be resolved with a firmware update when released. Unit will more than likely need to be sent into a service center for this to happen.


I really hope they can allow us to upgrade the firmware with our own computer. I cringe when I think about taking out some 300 or so discs, unplugging all the cables, squeezing it out of my cabinet, and then paying a rediculous amount of money to ship this huge item somewhere...

I do not think this will be allowed because of the MacroVision rules. When you flash a rom...it is a complete wipe and load. Thus all the macrovision items would also be in the code you flash it with. In other words...if someone has the code...it can be hacked and thus MacroVision removed.

I know the unit is CDR upgradeable with just a CDR in the unit...But again...same issue as above.

I do not disagree with you not wanting to ship it. But if it comes down to that...I will be doing it.

Dave:

Thanks for the welcome, this seems like this the forum to use when you need specific answers on diff. models of equip. I also visit HTF, quite a bit......but the members here seem to respond quickly when you have a problem.

The only reason I'm sort of shying away from the kenwood reciever is the price and a sixth or 7th channel of power.......the entre is about $1400, a refurbished 5900 for over a $1000 or new for $1500 and then the reciever vr-5700 at $1600.......plus it dosen't have a 6th and 7th powered driven channels for dts-es or dolby 6.1 like the 898 without a separate amp.

I myself have an onkyo 898 and love its HT quality sound and extra features.........plus i can get it at jandr.com for around $1250.

Though with the kenwood, i would just need one component out to the pioneer elite and thats it.....the 898 can't swicth composite,s-video or component to one output.

I'll be installing the system in a 16'x13'x8' room, so the thx ultra might just be a tad overkill..........

Like I said I was thinkin about using a marantz 9200 to control everything, so wouldn't macros in the 9200 solve the problem of doing the switching for me with the reciever and the inputs?

Just afraid that the sound quality won't match the onkyo......the HT will be used for 70% HT, 30% music.

Any insights Dave.........???

John

Well...I went from a Lexicon MC-1 to the Denon 5800 to the Kenwood and still very much enjoy the sound. Seeing I use out-board AMP's...I not even think of the channel issue I am sorry to say.

I had to chuckle when you said THX Ultra over kill...but you are going to install ES. :)

I can not advise on the macros for I do not use that remote at all. Do not see why it can not work.

FYI...The Kenwoods transcoder works very well. In my living room I am converting everything to component. :) (I have a Kenwood receiver upstairs as well as in my Dedicated Theater.)

this is OT, but ...

The onkyo 898 does s-video to component upconversion? ... I thought only the kenwood vr5090/5700/5900 and pioneer vsx49tx did that.

The onkyo things I've browsed mention "composite to S-video conversion" but no mention of "S-video to component conversion"

Rob

Duh ... never mind I misread your post (brain not working I guess)

Originally posted by jonathanR
Dave:

Though with the kenwood, i would just need one component out to the pioneer elite and thats it.....the 898 can't swicth composite,s-video or component to one output.

Thxs Vaha. You saved me a painful search.

Originally posted by vaha
I posted that. If you have a pronto its, power button, stop, delay 0.1 sec,stop.

The marantz is a rebadged pronto right? This posted by vaha should work.

Originally posted by jonathanR
2) automatic disc play when powered up??


Originally posted by vaha
I posted that. If you have a pronto its, power button, stop, delay 0.1 sec,stop.

Thanks slocko........yeah the marantz 9200 is prontopro clone....but with more hard buttons and joystick pad.......i'm currently tring to program the remote through its software program.....before i get all the equipment. Thanks your post helped alot.


John

For anyone that doesn't know and I might be in the dark here, but there is a new version of Kenwoods Entre Media manager out. Version 1.2.4.2046

Carbo,

I've been using it for a few weeks -- other than Windows XP support, I didn't notice any changes. It's as flakey as the other versions of the software. One thing, it now insists on having all cover art be smaller than 300x300 pixels. Why they did this, is totally beyond me. I'm not sure, but I think the cover art looks worse now.

H

I used it last night and noticed nothing. It maybe a tad more stable. The old one used to crash the first time I ran it. This one booted right of the bat. That is it though.

Carbo,

Something else I remembered, the categories (Genre) are all out of whack -- for some reason someone decided to change them from what the previous versions were using. For example, Blues is now considered Country/Blues (or something like that), Alternative is now considered Dance/Alternative. If you value your sanity, you won't try to create your own categories. The software lets you create them and move albums into those categories -- but it's really a pain in the a** do do and it's extremely unreliable (sometimes it takes, sometimes it doesn't).

The default covers used for categories are different than what shipped with the original version of Media Manager -- funny thing is, what you see on the PC is not what you'll get on the Entre (it uses the old covers).

Just my 2 cents!

Howdy Folks...I just got my 5900 up and running. Is there any way to use the component input for other than daisy chaining other Kenwoods? Such as feeding component from an Omega One thru it. Thanks.

Not that I am aware of. The two units would talk via the RS232. The first unit would need to know when to switch into "by-pass" mode. (or pass through mode)

Maybe someone else knows of a way.