Hello all:

I'm planning on installing the a new HT for my father and he really likes the entre and 5900 mega-changer....I want to use another brand reciever and use a marantz RC9200 to automate the system......I've been working on the pronto design for the last 2 weeks......but still not sure about a couple of things....(pronto) related.

While im in the Entre panel that I created.....on the 9200 and since most of the navigation is done through entre guide.....ie..selecting diff options within the entre, ie movie, music and radio menus....how do i know when to jump to a dvd-control panel....for play,pause,rew,fwd,stop,etc.... that i created in the pronto remote.

In other words theres no actual "play" button within the entre that i can link to a "dvd-control" panel. Selcting info about a movie or selecting a genre and making a final selection to play is all used by the same "select/ok" button.....that ok button used for both navagation and selecting a title to start. But I need to some how get that final selection to jump to my dvd-control panel.....for all the dvd navigation. Normally on a single-disc......you just select an icon to play on the pronto remote.....and then you can jump to the dvd-control panel to navigate the dvd's functions.....the entre requires a little more thinking.

I know it sounds confusing, but any tips out there or macros......that i can use to get me through this problem??

Thanks.

John

JonathanR (from another "JonathanR" -- my middle name is Ross) --

I do not have an Entre, so I may not be giving you incredibly insightful advice, however, I do have a Pronto and have experience with user interface tricks to get things done...

If I understand your problem correctly, you have no way to differentiate what type of media your dad is going to select, so you do not know which next panel to jump to. For example, if he selects an Internet Radio Station, you do not want to send him to the DVD transport panel.

If this is the case, my suggestion:

A row of 3 (or as many as you need) "select" buttons, which are media-sensitive. So, at the bottom of the screen, you could have:
"Play DVD" "Select Station" "Play CD" "Play DVD-A" "etc..."

Each button would send the same "Select/OK" command, but would send the code for the right input to your receiver, and then branch to the appropriate panel.

Sample macro for "Play DVD":
Entre: Select
Onkyo: DVD Input
9200: display DVD transport panel

Similar macro for "Listen to Station":
Entre: Select
Onkyo: Whatever input you have for the Entre
9200: display Radio control panel

Hope this gives you some ideas...

ran into a weird problem the other night.

I went to change the language while the movie was playing and it froze on me. I had to power it off. Once it came back on, it refused to play any of my discs. It would begin reading them, but then it would say it cannot play disc and move on the next disc with the same results.

I unplugged it but no dice. cleaned several discs in case it was a dirt problem. no dice. randomly selected discs to play, and they all would not play. whipped out the manual and looked at the troubleshooting section. only the sequential tip remotely resembled the problem. toggled sequential on/off. no dice.

Finally on a whim decided to use the select disc button on the remote while it was reading a dvd and selected another disc, which played with no problems. that seemed to have cleared whatever was in memory because the problem went away.

hope this helps someone if they ever find themselves in this nervous situation. I was dreading I would either have to send it in, or do a re-inilitialization which would have wiped out the 360 titles I had input and categorized.

Thanks for the tip, slocko.

Hey -- somehow I got my DV-5900M into "custom installer" mode (??). The nice thing is that now the OSD tells me when discs are being read, found, and I have forward and backward OSD info as well. When I turn the unit on, it says "custom installer mode" or something to that effect.

Was this a menu setting that just switched "on" for me, or is this something deeper?

I happen to like custom installer mode, btw.

Originally posted by David Bott
Robert....In reply to your above letter...

---Snip---

David,

I hope everything is going well for you. I'm currently in the third of a 4 country tour. Please pass on to Mr. Curry that we have had numerous requests for the protocol and I can simply not provide support. I will consider his proposal and respond directly upon my return to the US, the week of the 29th.

Regards,

Brian

---End Snip---

Well, I never did hear back from Brian ... A shame too since I still think it would be in Kenwood's best interest to share the info.

I wonder what type of arrangement AMX and Crestron made to get access to the protocol info?

Rob

Jon,

If you ever figure out what you did to get into the "custom installer" mode, be sure to post the procedure here. I'd be interested in seeing this myself. BTW, I'm pretty sure it's not a menu selectable item.

Ken

Anyone notice that the OpenGlobe software now allows you to lookup movies and even cross reference actors and other info? I just found this.

Now...If they would only time that dang INFO button into it so when you pressed INFO when you are on a movie in your list it would pull the data.

well, i think my player is on the fritz. it's consistently freezing on different dvds, randomly it seems. Once it freezes i have to try a multiple of things to get it to play dvds again. Not sure exactly which of the steps I take makes it work again. Last night I powered it off and left it like that overnight. This morning, turned it back on and it still would not play any discs. my earlier posted fix didn't work. it must just have been a coincidence.

bummer. if i have to send this unit in and unload all 360 dvds, then i will just select movies based on my paper copy and patiently wait for Pioneer to come out with their player.

Here is how I use the player:

1) no entre
2) native gui to input and categorize all 360 dvds. All eight categories were used.
3) never power it off.
4) in a rack with proper ventilation.
5) kids watch movies during the day. Maybe 3-4 dvds during the day all selected via osd. not all dvds are watched to the end.
6) wife and I watch one dvd per night almost everyday thru its completion.

So maybe I am gave this thing too much use?

Any idea when or if Kenwood will be releasing a firmware update for the dv-5900m. I called the service center on the westcoast and they were un-aware of any update as of yet. Does it usually take a year or so for firmwares to be update.....whats the usual time frame?

John

Of late, whenever I try to access internet radio, the Entre freezes and I have to go through the reboot drill. Anyone else experiencing this problem? Any suggestions?

I was wondering why we had not heard anything regarding support for multiple changers or a maintenance release for the Entre's software -- while at the Kenwood site,

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2357

KENWOOD SOVEREIGN 400-DISC DVD CHANGER CONTROL
- Controls Transport Functions of up to 3: coming soon

I wonder what that means?

H

Originally posted by hmatos
I was wondering why we had not heard anything regarding support for multiple changers or a maintenance release for the Entre's software -- while at the Kenwood site,

http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2357

KENWOOD SOVEREIGN 400-DISC DVD CHANGER CONTROL
- Controls Transport Functions of up to 3: coming soon

I wonder what that means?

H

This is new. David Bott, if you have inside info, it will not be a violation of confidence to share it, since it's now being "promised" on the website.

Keep us updated.

Nick :cool:

Hi...

I do know it is happening but I still do not know how long more. Have been told it is looking good....but that is about it. Seeing it takes both hardware and software, it has taken both companies resources to make this happen. (Kenwood and OpenGlobe) So...As I mentioned in the past...it is being worked on. As you know know from the site...It is getting closer.

Sorry...no more real info to provide for I have not received any more.

I wonder . . .

Will the hardware modifications be required on the Entre, or the unit being controlled, or the unit that they seek to be controlled?

Or all?

Nick :cool:

Not to be overly cynical (well, OK, actually what I'm about to point out *is* overly cynical), but Kenwood has had 'coming soon' listed on their page for the still-vaporware Axcess for over six months. I finally gave up and went with the Turtle Beach Audiotron :mad:

Kenwood would do good to grow market share by demonstrating they can make a continuously upgradeable system.

I'm sitting on the fence, but its the future that's got me worried about the Kenwood stuff. I want to buy and feel like I made a smart decision.

Rick...From what I have heard at one pointin the game...It will use the USB port. Something like a USB to RS232 Multiplexer. So..Entre USB to Multiplexer...Multiplexter RS232 out... one port to each unit.

This only seems logical without hardware changes but only the added hardware and software.

I have not confirmed this...Again...only seems logical. (or use the RS232 to the multiplexer)

The Axcess is also moving right along from what I have happened to hear. That should also be with us soon.

Originally posted by David Bott
Rick...From what I have heard at one pointin the game...It will use the USB port. Something like a USB to RS232 Multiplexer. So..Entre USB to Multiplexer...Multiplexter RS232 out... one port to each unit.

This only seems logical without hardware changes but only the added hardware and software.

I have not confirmed this...Again...only seems logical. (or use the RS232 to the multiplexer)

The Axcess is also moving right along from what I have happened to hear. That should also be with us soon.

That sounds great. But I hope Kenwood understands that its "coming soon" claim should be viewed with the skepticism that Ponziani has indicated.

I also hope that this does not cost early adopters any money, since this is what they were supposedly buying when they invested in the Entre and the changer in the first instance.

Time will tell, but Kenwood should remember that talk remains the most reasonably priced commodity on the market.

Nick :cool:

Ok...Here is some new info I can share...

1) The Axcess is due to be released at the end of this month/first week in June.

2) Look for a new software update to be installed (or do a force install) sometime before months end. It will be version 1.1.0.0 and offers a number or performance improvements and some new code that is needed for the Axcess unit. (No...I do not know what they added I am sorry to say.)

3) Please be sure to REGISTER you product on the Kenwood site. REGISTER HERE (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/register/registration.jsp) This is so you can be contacted when the hardware changes are ready. Yes..this will be used to contact you when the multi-changer support is ready for for the Entre as well as other items.

Well...That's all I have.

David,

No information on any updates to the 5900 itself???

This thread has really slowed up!

Michael

Originally posted by fireboy92k

No information on any updates to the 5900 itself???

This thread has really slowed up!


THat's one reason I'm still sitting on the fence.

"No information on any updates to the 5900 itself???"

As mentioned before (or at least I think it was)...it would be a update that would require you to send in your unit. Nothing has yet been announced for I think they are waiting for the changer control to be finished. Hate to have you send it your unit then have to send it in again for the next update. They can not send you a CD-Rom to flash our own unit before of Macrovision code restrications.

"This thread has really slowed up!"

Yes..for all that can be said more or less has. So...we wait for the next update.

I however am still very happy with my purchase choice.

Yeah, I know... I was just hoping that they might at some point confirm that they are even thinking about it or say 'No, it's not in the cards. Sorry.' At least then I'd have some closure. :D

Overall I'm still pleased, just a few things that need to be fixed and it'd be AWESOME!

BTW, I have been able to confirm that you can defeat the autostart from the front panel by holding down the STOP button when you power on the unit for those who turn it off. I know I've seen several folks that have been successful in programming this in a third party remote, but I haven't been able to get it to work with holding down the STOP key on the remote supplied with the 5900.

Michael

Oh..yes..their will be updates...that I can say for sure. When...just not sure but I would guess when they have the multi-changer support for Entre ready.

Well there is a hardware fix for the DV-5900M that eliminates the vibration noise problem I was having with most DVDs. See http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=127784. After this any software update will seem like it's a breeze - though I'm not looking forward to unloading and reloading all those discs (but hopefully not reloading all the disc info).

I have a standalone 5900 that I use with the netnamer software. I am essentially happy with it but have a few questions. There is some great info on this thread, but was looking for clarification on the following:

1) If you do power it down, what is the difference between using the hard button on the face of the unit and the remote power button? The remote power states it is going into standby, but when you turn it on from either state with either button it appears to behave the same.....

2) If I have followed the thread correctly, there is still no firmware update to fix the 4 second layer change issue.

3) Has anyone figured out a way to backup the title and related info in the unit? I understand you could do a "restore" by doing a disc by disc copy (PC to Unit) using the netnamer software. A real pain. How long will the player save the title info without power?

4) Has anyone found a backdoor to force it to NOT do a read everytime it is turned on or opened and closed? Seems silly that it does that when you just add a disc to the rental slot.

5) Carousel squeaks - The plastic squeak it makes when it spins makes it sound cheap... Do they all do that and is there a fix?

6) Stop it from playing a disc at turn-on - Is the post above saying to "hold down" the stop bottom WHILE pressing the power button to stop it from playing a disc at startup? Or is it really just a variation of the "power-up and hit the stop button at the right time" routine?? That sometimes works, sometimes does not for me..

7) Will the multiple-player fix forthcoming do anything for standalone 5900's that you plan to daisy chain?

Thanks,

BJB

bjbbjb,

In response to your questions....

1. The difference is that in standby mode, the remote control can turn the unit on remotely. If you use the hard button to turn it off, you need to use the hard button to turn it on. From a power consumption perspective, I expect that turning the unit OFF (not standby) consumes slightly less power than in standby mode. Standby mode is similar to most other devices that can turn on remotely.

2. Correct, there is no fix for anything wrong with the changer to-date. Holding down the stop button on the unit or remote control when turning on the unit is a quasi-fix to the auto-start "feature"

3. Don't know. Would be nice to figure out before we send our units in to get the firmware upgrade!

4. No. Though, I am in "customer installer" mode -- and I don't know how I got it into this mode. I like it, though, because the OSD tells me things like "scanning" "reading" and other noteables that seem informative to me.

5. Mine does not squeak. You may want to get yours serviced.

6. Turning it on while holding the stop button down is a hassle. I do the "power up and hit the stop button at the right time" routine. It works fairly well, but it is far from optimal.

7. I hope so!! I'm disappointed that you can't search across the 3.

i guess i am in installer mode too. i can see those things flash on my tv screen. i also thought once i saw the word "custom" pop up on the screen.

Slocko, I wonder what we did to get into this mode. And, more importantly, I wonder what we can do in this mode that make things better?

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
bjbbjb,

In response to your questions....

1. The difference is that in standby mode, the remote control can turn the unit on remotely. If you use the hard button to turn it off, you need to use the hard button to turn it on. From a power consumption perspective, I expect that turning the unit OFF (not standby) consumes slightly less power than in standby mode. Standby mode is similar to most other devices that can turn on remotely.

2. Correct, there is no fix for anything wrong with the changer to-date. Holding down the stop button on the unit or remote control when turning on the unit is a quasi-fix to the auto-start "feature"

3. Don't know. Would be nice to figure out before we send our units in to get the firmware upgrade!

4. No. Though, I am in "customer installer" mode -- and I don't know how I got it into this mode. I like it, though, because the OSD tells me things like "scanning" "reading" and other noteables that seem informative to me.

5. Mine does not squeak. You may want to get yours serviced.

6. Turning it on while holding the stop button down is a hassle. I do the "power up and hit the stop button at the right time" routine. It works fairly well, but it is far from optimal.

7. I hope so!! I'm disappointed that you can't search across the 3.


Jon, my 2 Sony changers are on the same remote frequency, I have remote contols on both to turn the power off, while the other is on. I keep track of discs by using a composition book for each mega changer. :)

I have been running Netnamer 1.30 with my 5900 with success (just for title input). I was thinking of using the software for help in programming a disc list, however there are 2 features that are missing but discussed in the manual and in the help files installed WITH the software.

1) In the Contol>Program mode, there isn't a button that selects all tracks of a disc to program. It makes you program each track individually which doesn't make sense if you want to play the whole disc. In the manual and help file it talks about an "all" button that lets you select all the tracks but it is not there...

2) Along the left side of the control menu, there is one "PGM Set" button. However in the manual, there are 3 buttons, PGM Set, Music Type, and User File. Version 1.30 does not have these buttons. It would be nice to be able to play all the discs in a particular user group or music type.

I now see that version 1.31 is available. I did download it and there was no readme or install instructions either in the download or download web page. Of course having programmed almost 400 discs, I have no desire to install the upgrade without understanding what it does. Some programs want you to install over prior installs, some want you to uninstall the prior version.

Also, I can't find what version 1.31 offers to even see if it is woth it.

Thanks to the replies to my prior posts, very helpful.

BJB

You can install version 1.31 atop of .30 and it will not erase/destroy your data. That said, I did not notice too many differences between the two versions.

I just bought the Entre along with the 5900m and the vr5900. I was hoping some of you more experienced with this setup might have put together a newbie guide to entre. If so please let me know. I haven't done much with it yet but I did update to newest version. It came with 1.0.0.0 I have read this whole thread and it looks like it will be very helpful to both me and Kenwood.

Thanks
Rudmeister

I finally got it all hooked up and working and tweaked with video essentials.
I have 2 questions
1. The 5900 dvd picture is fed thru the 5900 receiver and then thru the Entre. I am using component in and outs exclusively. The picture is not anywhere near as good as I had before even after tweaking. Is there any known video degradation by feeding it thru this way?

2. Why would the picture look better with the interlaced setting then the progressive?

Everything is being fed to a Pioneer Elite 710-hd

Thanks
Rudmeister

im just guessing here, but if you set it to interlaced then your tv's line doubler will convert the picture, if you set it to progressive then the tv doesn't do anything to the picture.

this suggest your tv has a better line doubler than the 5900 which is hard to believe because everyone raves about progressive abilities of the 5900.

there are some visual settings for the 5900 dvd player that only apply to progressive mode. Any chance those need to be tweaked?

Thanks for the reply slocko
Yeah I haven't even started tweaking the 5900 yet, only the tv. I know I have a lot to do still and even more to learn but it just struck me as being odd that interlaced looked better then progressive. It's time consuming to do it all from hooking up to tweaking for final result.
I will let you know how I do

Thanks
Rudmeister

Someone previously mentioned they'd had success in programming a universal remote macro for the DV-5900M Stop key hold trick at power-up. Does anybody have the key sequence and timings for such a macro for a Pronto? I'm in the midst of programming a Marantz RC-9200, but am fairly new to the process. I'm not sure how to simulate a keypress and hold in a Pronto macro. TIA for any help or advice!

Tom

Rudmeister:

Keep posting here....I'm planning on getting an entre and 5900 in about a month and a half.......and also matching it up with a pioneer elite 520hd. I'll be using an onkyo 898 in lieu of the kenwood reciever. When you did the video essential calibration.......on your elite...you did it while it was hooked up in progressive mode right? Hmmm could the quality problem be because of the kenwood reciever....interference of some sort???.......Did you try hooking it up.....5900 to entre to elite......in progressive....without going through the kenwood reciever?

john

jonathan

No I didn't try bypassing the vr-5900 because the reason I first decided to upgrade my system was that I had too many video inputs for the tv to handle. I currently have 8 separate video sources and the Elite 710 only has 3 inputs in back and 1 in front.

On a separate note can someone tell me how I would know whether to change the Black level setting on the 5900m to 0 ire from 7.5 ire.

And is it normal that when you stop a movie you get the default screen instead of the movie menu? That doesn't make sense to me.


Rudmeister

Basically it's power, stop, delay,stop. It might look like it didn't work, but if you are patient you will see that indeed it will not play the dvd.

Originally posted by Tom Blake
Someone previously mentioned they'd had success in programming a universal remote macro for the DV-5900M Stop key hold trick at power-up. Does anybody have the key sequence and timings for such a macro for a Pronto? I'm in the midst of programming a Marantz RC-9200, but am fairly new to the process. I'm not sure how to simulate a keypress and hold in a Pronto macro. TIA for any help or advice!

Tom

Also I just bought the system and I already I have to have the remote sent out to be re-programmed. The powertouch remote doesn't have the codes for the entre. Can I do this myself?

How useful is the 2 way function on the remote? I have a ProntoPro that I want to use but don't know how important the 2 way communication is.
When programmed for entre does the powertouch remote display catalog info from entre?

Thanks
Rudmeister

Thanks for the Pronto tip! I tried the macro last night and it seemed to work. From what previous posters mentioned it seemed like I needed to simulate a press and hold of the Stop key, which is not easy to implement on the Pronto. Seems like just invoking the Stop command twice works, however. Thanks again.

Tom

Does anyone here have any DVD-A discs that feature a 2 channel 24/192 soundtrack? The only one I have that does is Hotel California by the Eagles. I know there are a few others as well. When I play this soundtrack on the 5900M using the L/R analog outs of the 5.1 multichannel analog outs, I get a crackling sound persistent throughout the disc. This is very similar to the earlier documented problem problem with 24/96 audio-only DVD's (Classic, Chesky, etc). When I play the 24/96 5.1 track on Hotel California I don't get the crackling sound. Note that I downmixed to 2 channel for the 5.1 track as my pre/pro does not have 5.1 analog inputs. If anyone has the Hotel California DVD-A (or any other disc with a 2 channel 24/192 soundtrack), if you could try playing this on the 5900M I would appreciate it. If you get a crackling sound as well, it would seem there's another incompatability with the 5900M DACs. TIA for anyone who can run this experiement!

Tom

I've posted a ccf on the remote central site that allows for the direct selection of the first 229 disks in the Kenwood DV-5900M DVD changer. It is in the beta file area currently. From the main remote central page click the new pronto file area link on the left side of the page then folow through into the Kenwood DVD area of the beta file section.

As to why 229, beacuse that's as far as I've needed to go so far :D

With a little caution you should be able to merge it into your existing setup...

Originally posted by Floydbob
I've posted a ccf on the remote central site that allows for the direct selection of the first 229 disks in the Kenwood DV-5900M DVD changer. It is in the beta file area currently. From the main remote central page click the new pronto file area link on the left side of the page then folow through into the Kenwood DVD area of the beta file section.

As to why 229, beacuse that's as far as I've needed to go so far :D

With a little caution you should be able to merge it into your existing setup...

What's the command sequence to choosing a disc in a particular numbered slot?

Also, does the sequence work from any "point" (such as while another disc is running), or must you be stopped? Your input is appreciated.

Nick :cool:

For example disc 199:
Stop
Delay .5
Disc Select
Delay .5
100
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
10
9
Delay .5
Play
Jump to Transport Screen

So, it will work if the player is stopped or running.

If you load the ccf, you can touch "Disk Direct Index" then "A"
Then "Airplane" for a sample aproach to indexing.

The "Airplane" button executes the macro for disk 116 then jumps
back to the DVD-Main Page.

Originally posted by David Bott
I do not think this will be allowed because of the MacroVision rules. When you flash a rom...it is a complete wipe and load. Thus all the macrovision items would also be in the code you flash it with. In other words...if someone has the code...it can be hacked and thus MacroVision removed.

I know the unit is CDR upgradeable with just a CDR in the unit...But again...same issue as above.

I do not disagree with you not wanting to ship it. But if it comes down to that...I will be doing it.

David,

This makes sense to some degree but if you want the code off of the ROM itself there are numerous tools available in the IC industry that would facilitate copying the current rom and extracting the code.

The extracted code would match the flash image used to burn the ROM which be the same as used with a firmware update loaded via your own PC.

Granted the equipment to do this is fairly expensive but in the end if someone wants the code off of the 5900 ROM and has enough experience to modify it to remove MacroVision then acquiring the ROM contents directly from the unit would be a trivial barrier vs. a PC based flash update installer. They can get it either way and the PC based update would save them maybe an hour or less anyway.

Additionally, the MacroVision routines are used in nearly all of the commercially available PC DVD player software which a user may freely install or update without sending their entire PC in to get a software update which is a sharp contrast to 5900 owners being required to send in the unit for a firmware update.

Not to mention that there are numerous hardware solutions that can be used inline on the video signal to remove the MacroVision signal already which are easily obtainable for $50 or less. A quick trip to BestBuy is all that is required to defeat the MacroVision signal so I am unclear why MacroVision would require Kenwood to go through these ridiculous hoops.

It would also be extremely easy to acquire the software from a Kenwood service center if you had a friend or relative employed there which would be nearly impossible for Kenwood to police outside of requiring all units to be sent back to Kenwood directly which would seem cost prohibitive, labor intensive and a huge burden on existing owners.

I also wonder how many 5900 owners are even really concerned or interested in MacroVision removal. Not that I would mind it overall but with the numerous issues and problems with lockups and etc. the last thing I would want to do is run hacked firmware on one. There is also the issue of a limited user base to begin with and most MacroVision hacks are targeted to low to mid priced units that easily have 10 to 20 times (or more) units in the marketplace.

All I want is a permanent fix to random bursts of lockups which continue to come and go. It will run fine for a couple of months and out of the blue it will lose its' mind and decide that discs are unreadable again which will last for a few minutes, few hours or sometimes a few days. It is insanely frustrating when it occurs during a viewing which blows the whole mood or interest in the movie all together.

I'm glad i am not the only one experiencing this problem. I wonder if it's because I leave it on 24/7.


Originally posted by MediaStorm



All I want is a permanent fix to random bursts of lockups which continue to come and go. It will run fine for a couple of months and out of the blue it will lose its' mind and decide that discs are unreadable again which will last for a few minutes, few hours or sometimes a few days. It is insanely frustrating when it occurs during a viewing which blows the whole mood or interest in the movie all together.

MediaStorm....

At this point I, nor you, I think can know how they have their eproms setup and what can and can not be done with flashing. You are assuming it is setup like some others when it may not be.

"...hardware solutions that can be used inline on the video signal to remove the MacroVision signal..."

Sure someone can use external equipment in the line...but that is not Kenwwod fault then is it? But sending out a CDR that could be hacked would be their fault.


"...numerous tools available in the IC industry that would facilitate copying the current rom and extracting the code. "

Sure...again...not of Kenwood fault.


"the MacroVision routines are used in nearly all of the commercially available PC DVD player software which a user may freely install or update..."

This I do not get at all. Have you ever installed or updated macrovision? I for one have never heard of anyone doing any such thing. So maybe I just do not understand the above.


So...All I do know about this and can agree with why is that if the macrovison code gets out on a disc like mentioned, it is a 1 million dollar fine to the manufacture for each issue. Thus...they will do what it takes not to not let this mappen. Their already was one company, I forget who, that was hit with the fine and had to pay it.


Oh..on the lockups. I am sorry to tell you that I persoanlly have not had any. (that is good for me...but bad for you.) Sorry.

At this point I, nor you, I think can know how they have their eproms setup and what can and can not be done with flashing. You are assuming it is setup like some others when it may not be.

I don't claim to have specific knowledge on how the Kenwood unit is built but Kenwood has acknowledged on more than one ocassion that it is possible to flash the units to update the firmware. I've been told this as well as others so it is a basic assumption based on info from Kenwood.

------------------------

Sure someone can use external equipment in the line...but that is not Kenwwod fault then is it? But sending out a CDR that could be hacked would be their fault.

"...numerous tools available in the IC industry that would facilitate copying the current rom and extracting the code. "

Sure...again...not of Kenwood fault.

Right, neither instance provides any protection for MacroVision or direct liability for Kenwood but still allow the code to be acquired with minimal effort which makes MacroVision's efforts to protect the code somewhat futile.

------------------------

"the MacroVision routines are used in nearly all of the commercially available PC DVD player software which a user may freely install or update..."

This I do not get at all. Have you ever installed or updated macrovision? I for one have never heard of anyone doing any such thing. So maybe I just do not understand the above.

Have you ever installed a software based DVD player on your PC? WinDVD and etc. all use MacroVision code as well. The basic code routines and processing are very similar to what would be found in the Kenwood rom image. My point was that I do not understand the basic differences between WindDVD distributing updates that contain MacroVision code and Kenwood sending out flashable updates. It seems that MacroVision is directly contradicting their position on the issue by using different standards for each application of the MacroVision code.

------------------------

So...All I do know about this and can agree with why is that if the macrovison code gets out on a disc like mentioned, it is a 1 million dollar fine to the manufacture for each issue. Thus...they will do what it takes not to not let this mappen. Their already was one company, I forget who, that was hit with the fine and had to pay it.

I would be very interested in hearing the details of this event and the specifics behind it. It is interesting that MacroVision is so concerned about protecting their code while others like Dolby Labs and etc. don't share a similar concern. Onkyo and others have released firmware updates for their receivers to add additional Dolby and DTS features via updates directly available to the consumer. Granted these are slightly different animals but I find it strange that Dolby Labs and DTS don't share the same concerns as MacroVision does despite the fact that MacroVision does not place the same constraints on WindDVD or any other software on the PC that DOES use the MacroVision code as well.

------------------------

Oh..on the lockups. I am sorry to tell you that I persoanlly have not had any. (that is good for me...but bad for you.) Sorry.

Consider yourself lucky on this one. I know I am not alone with this problem and it is insanely frustrating as it is very unpredictable and there is no quick workaround to solve it. I've tried to reproduce the problem and cannot find any specific set of events that will make the unit exhibit the problem. It shows up completely randomly and goes away the same. What works one time (removing the disc from the slot, power cycling etc.) won't work the next time and the problem may show up once in three months or 10 times in one day. Leaving the unit on 24/7 seems to minimize the problem somewhat but it is a coin toss each time you watch a disc. I hold my breath everytime we have company over to watch movies. It doesn't have anything to do with the condition of the discs in the unit either. All of my discs come straight from the store and go straight into the changer and are NEVER removed again. The problem is not related to a specific disc either. A disc that won't work one day will work perfectly the next day. Ironically, ALL of the discs play flawlessly in an $85 Samsung that has never once locked up or shown other character flaws. I never had any issues with the Sony DVD changer that the Kenwood replaced either despite the fact that others had a few problems with their Sony units. That same Sony is now upstairs and gets a much harder workout than the Kenwood does and still shows no signs of these issues.

Despite the Kenwood having such a quirky personality I wouldn't give it up in a second unless there was a better unit available that offered the same audio and picture quality as the 5900. I've not experienced a single issue at all with the VR5700 receiver I bought at the same time and simply wish the 5900 would perform reliably as well.

Why is it that other DVD manufacturers have sent out CD's to flash their units?

If anyone here has the Eagles - Hotel California DVD-A I would greatly appreciate you trying the 2 channel 24/192 track and telling me if you hear a persistent crackling sound from the 5900M's 5.1 analog outs. I have encountered this with 2 copies of the disc. I'm trying to determine if this is a widespread 5900M problem, or just my player. Two channel 24/96 DVD-A soundtracks play fine on my machine. TIA for any help!

Tom

"Why is it that other DVD manufacturers have sent out CD's to flash their units?"

Well seeing I have never had to flash a unit...I can not say this is the case even though sure seems it could be. But then again...How one company may have designed a unit does not mean another company made it the same way. One chip for software, one for other items like Macrovision maybe? Thus the flashing would not be the same. Could be. Don't know. But please do not assume because one company did it does not mean all should or could.


MediaStorm...Do think I am trying to argue the case to you. I am just pointing out differences that could make this a totally different case. Kenwood does not want to infringe on Macrovisions rule of use or whatever it may be call. I for one can not blame them. Maybe they will find a away for this this be done...but at this time the unit will need to be sent in.

"but Kenwood has acknowledged on more than one occasion that it is possible to flash the units to update the firmware."

Ture...And I have even said this. But...that does not mean they will send out a disc if it can cause them issues with a company like Marcovision. I guess it all can depend on what is being flashed.

On the second note above...again, it would not be Kenwoods fault and thus not liable. Sending out a disc with the Microvision code would be an issue I am told. From what I know...their different types of microvision.

"MacroVision is directly contradicting their position on the issue by using different standards for each application of the MacroVision code."

And maybe they have different rules for use for the different codes.


As far as the company that was hit with the fine...I do not have any other info for I was told this by another source when I was looking into the CD ROM upgrade restrictions that Kenwood seem to be locked into. More or less I was told "Kenwood would be good to take care with the Macrovision code...For company 'blank' was hit with a 1 million fine for the code getting out." This came from a person also in the DVD unit business. Thus it all came together for me when I was told I would not be able to get a disc to flash with, but would have to send in the unit. It made sense at that point. Again...I hope they can maybe find a way.

As far as the lockup's. Yes...That does not sound good at all I am sorry to say. Have you exchanged the unit at all? Like I had mentioned...with over 400 DVD's used...I have not have on issue like you mention. Esp when you say the disc one day is fine and the next it is not. I read bad unit all over the above text.

Yes...I agree...love the unit and even more with the Entre as the controller.

David,

It could be, but then the dam thing works fine for months at a time. Then randomly it refuses to read discs. For a while I thought power cycling would fix the problem. Then I thought selecting another disc while one was playing would fix the probelm, but it seems to go away in a random fashion the same way it randomly happens.

I wonder if maybe the carousel occasionally gets misaligned and somehow random movements put back on track again.

I would try to exchange it, but since it's so hard to reproduce it would be dificult to get kenwood to agree to it I imagine. Plus I don't relish the thought of unloading and reloading 300 plus discs and possible having to re-enter the information again since I don't have the entre. I prefer to live with it until the competition pulls ahead.

Originally posted by David Bott
[BAs far as the lockup's. Yes...That does not sound good at all I am sorry to say. Have you exchanged the unit at all? Like I had mentioned...with over 400 DVD's used...I have not have on issue like you mention. Esp when you say the disc one day is fine and the next it is not. I read bad unit all over the above text.

Yes...I agree...love the unit and even more with the Entre as the controller. [/B]

Originally posted by Carbo
Why is it that other DVD manufacturers have sent out CD's to flash their units?

This is the point I was trying to make with the reference to WinDVD as well. I realize that the platform is different but it is the same general principle. I was aware that other companies had sent firmware updates out for consumer units but I didn't have the time to track down the details and didn't want to reference something I didn't have specific details about in case there were elements that made those upgrades somehow 'different' than what Kenwood could possibly do themselves.

Thanks for pointing this out as another specific conflict in this application. I wonder if there is anyone from MacroVision we could get in touch with who might be able to explain the differences or issues surrounding Kenwood's ability to do what other manufacturers have done for their hardware directly to consumers?

I wonder if this is a change of MacroVision's strategy or position in the industry, a specific element of the particular contract they have with Kenwood, a financial circumstance that limits Kenwood's specific usage or allowed methods of distribution, a misinterpretation of the contract language between the two or what the specific reasoning is that prohibits Kenwood from releasing an update to consumers.

I could understand it from a technical perspective if Kenwood needed to do any hardware updates, calibrations to the hardware to compliment or enable the firmware to operate correctly or if their business model determined that it was financially beneficial and the support costs and shipping would be less expensive than the additional support required to help users with any update difficulties experienced.

In the end though it really doesn't matter what the specific issue surrounding the availability of end user updates is that it is ultimately Kenwood's final call on how to do it. They have minimal financial risk associated with forcing us all to send in the hardware for updates as they already have our money and it won't really affect the sales since new purchasers will simply insist that they get the updated versions when making their purchases.

It's up to Kenwood to find the required balance needed between their obligations to MacroVision, financial economics to implement the upgrade and their relationships with us as their consumers.

Unfortunately, my own opinion (yes, this is my own specific interpretation of the situation based on my own personal experiences with Kenwood technical support and other groups at Kenwood) is that they are more interested in stopping the problem to avoid negative publicity than they are concerned with resolving the problem to increase consumer satisfaction levels with their equipment overall.

I have had numerous contacts with them trying to acquire any details at all on the RS232 protocols used by the unit in order to do development to support the unit. The fact that the 5900 has RS232 control was one of my major reasons for purchasing the unit in the first place. I knew that Pioneer and others had units with RS232 in the marketplace and were more than happy to provide details on RS232 implementation as they understood the value behind having an enthusiastic user base which can have a very positive effect on the bottom line.

When you start factoring all of this together, the overall quirks with the unit, the multi-changer control issues with daisy chaining, their attitude towards providing any additional value for the units by providing requested information to developers that are not a specific P3 partner (IE- NOT using AMX or CRESTRON exclusively), the continued delays fulfilling the initial marketing details (multi-unit control, axxcess with Entre, Entre issues and so on) as well as a web site that is not updated for extended periods of time to correct misstatements or the ever elusive Kenwood store that will open in the next few weeks for the last 6 or 7 months, the nearly unbearable usability and functionality of the NetNamer software, an IR keyboard that is backwards requiring you to hold down shift for lower case letters, etc. then hopefully you can better understand where I am coming from.

My confidence is Kenwood is quite low because they should have told be I was buying beta level hardware in the first place so that I could have made my own decision about the units particular fitness for my own application and usage. In all probability I would have likely still purchased the unit but would had lowered my expectations accordingly. Hopefully they will eventually fill all of the commitments they've made for the units via the marketing materials and through technical support channels at some point in the future. My larger fear is that at some point in the immediate future they determine that the units no longer contribute to their financial model and refocus their efforts on new model releases instead. I will personally never buy another piece of equipment from them until the problems are resolved. I would happily purchase an Entre at that point and if it were not for the fact that the unit was not in stock the day I ordered my 5900 and VR5700 I would own an Entre today. Fortunately (or unfortunately as the case may be) my 5900 started exhibiting lock ups during the first week I had it and I canceled the Entre because I didn't want to increase the probability of additional problems and was seriously considering the possibility of returning the 5900 and would have had much less use for an Entre at that point.

If they can demonstrate to me a true interest in resolving the outstanding issues and that they are making every possible effort to avoid future similar issues I'd be happy to show them a vote of confidence with my investment of an Entre once it has its' own problems sorted out. In short they have to earn my trust again which is far more difficult than seducing a new buyer into making the plunge the first time.

I understand the defensive posture that some forum members have towards the situation but the bottom line is I made the same decision to purchase this equipment as they did and I don't feel like they need to defend their decision to buy the 5900. I feel every bit as entitled to my own opinion of the situation as I spent the same amount of money to acquire the 5900 myself. The 5900 is a high-end unit and as such high expectations are undeniable.

I would be disappointed if I went to buy a BigMac and got home to find a cheeseburger in the bag as well.

David,

I am not trying to make a mountain out of a mole hill or create any type of conflict or ill-regard towards Kenwood or anyone else involved in this discussion.

I am in fact very appreciative of the AVS Forums and the incredible value that they provide to all of us. There is an incredible amount of knowledge freely shared in these forums and they are tremendously valuable.

I feel sorry for all of the consumers out in the marketplace who don't know about this resource that may be having the same problems as well.

This forum provides a valuable service and I can only imagine how much money it saves Kenwood indirectly as I would have sent my unit in for service multiple times before I knew that I wasn't alone with these problems. Not to mention that when the units came back with the same problems how much lower my confidence would be with Kenwood.

Thanks again.

MediaStorm...
Since your unit is obviously defective at some level, you should either get it fixed now or coordinate the fix with the firmware update. My unit has never crashed on me in the 8 months I've owned it. Now, it does hang on CD-Rs sometimes... a reboot of the machine fixes the problem. But, the machine has always reliably played DVDs.

You shouldn't have to cross your fingers to watch a movie. Get it fixed.

Jon,

Thanks for the info. There are several of us that are either experiencing the problem randomly or have experienced it at some point in the past several months. I will definately have it checked if it goes in for a firmware update. There is enough of us with the problem that it is unclear where the particular issue is.

I've had had lockups trying to index the discs with NetNamer but isolated that down to a single disc. If the Blair Witch 2 disc is in the unit during the indexing it will lock up the changer completely and force a power cycle to reset it. I've tried 4 different copies of that disc as well. The movie isn't very good anyway but I kept working on the problem to determine where the issue was and why it happened more than anything in case I had similar problems with other discs in the future.

I simply leave that disc out now if I get the urge to run NetNamer which is seldom since the info from DVD Profiler is much better and it is considerably faster to type in the UPC number than to try and index it. Ideally it would work similar to the Slinke with CDJ if you are familiar with that setup. I've coded the majority of a solution to perform the same functions on the 5900 but have not had time to finish it yet. Soon I'll have some time to spend with it again and hope to get it finished now that I have the RS232 information needed.

Out of curiosity, (unrelated to the problem), what has been your experience with VCD or SVCD content? I've had decent success with a few of the VCDs I have made but never been able to get a smooth SVCD playback as the unit stutters constantly. Strangely though it plays back smoothly between scene transitions and such on SVCDs or when the scene is darker with less movement. I don't think that SVCD is actually one of the supported formats anyway but was curious if anyone else was successful or not using VCDs and / or SVCDs. I'd also be curious to know if anyone has tried DVDR discs they've burned themselves and what the success was with those.

When it is working properly it makes little quirks like hitting 100+, 10+ and so on much less of an issue and much more tolerable. Maybe a firmware update could address the play on start issue and add direct disc entry as well. While I'm wishing for stuff I might as well add faster layer transitions and some method of eliminating the disc reads which seem to last an eternity at times.

I've overlooked all of those but strangely enough the random lockups almost always occur during a layer change. The layer changes are bad enough but when it never finishes the layer change and instead pops up the message that this disc type is unreadable it makes me want to scream.

Since the Kenwood replaced the Sony changer I often 'resort' to watching the discs on either my HTPC which also is very visually appealing or the XBOX which is easier yet. Since the lockups usually require removing the disc anyway the XBOX often gets used while the Kenwood is getting a time out for bad behavior. ;-)

Originally posted by Tom Blake
If anyone here has the Eagles - Hotel California DVD-A I would greatly appreciate you trying the 2 channel 24/192 track and telling me if you hear a persistent crackling sound from the 5900M's 5.1 analog outs. I have encountered this with 2 copies of the disc. I'm trying to determine if this is a widespread 5900M problem, or just my player. Two channel 24/96 DVD-A soundtracks play fine on my machine. TIA for any help!

Tom

I tried it. But it plays at 48khz, not 96, certainly not 192.

I have the downconversion set to "off" in the DV-5900 menu. I didn't bother looking at at the disc jacket, but it's the Hotel California DVD-Audio.

My audio processor is a Lexicon MC-12B. It is possible that the Lexicon is doing something to the signal, but I can't think of what. The Lexicon displays the frequency the disc is playing at, and it's not 24/96 or 24/192.

I've now gone and retrieved the disc jacket. Nothing on the jacket or the accompanying insert indicates what the two channel is recorded at.

I'm not doubting you, but I did check on your first post, got frustrated, and abandoned it. Some further inquiry is merited, but I'd like first to see that this outputs this rate.

Nick :cool:

MediaStorm...

Oh, for sure, my changer has locked up reliably on several DVD-Video discs via the NetNamerDV software! The thing is, once I got around the problem (by unchecking it in the read all discs option), I never read "all discs" again -- only selecting the discs I've added recently to the check list.

So, I've avoided future crashes of the system with certain DVD-V discs during the naming process.

HOWEVER... it's important to note that I do not have locking problems while playing back movies. In other words, it is prone to crashes during setup, but is fairly reliable during playback. I'm OK with this mix, however, I should expect more. And, in fact, I do. I eagerly await getting my firmware update in the mail. Hear that Kenwood?

The 5900M does not play back CD-Rs 100% of the time. It does not play back CD-R VCDs 100% of the time. I have not tried SVCD yet.

JonDeutsch....Yes, that is good to note what you are using in the changer.

I have not had any issues and I am only using it for DVD's at this time.

(I am starting to get into DVD-A discs though with the DTS releases.)

Originally posted by Nicholas


I tried it. But it plays at 48khz, not 96, certainly not 192.

I have the downconversion set to "off" in the DV-5900 menu. I didn't bother looking at at the disc jacket, but it's the Hotel California DVD-Audio.

My audio processor is a Lexicon MC-12B. It is possible that the Lexicon is doing something to the signal, but I can't think of what. The Lexicon displays the frequency the disc is playing at, and it's not 24/96 or 24/192.

I've now gone and retrieved the disc jacket. Nothing on the jacket or the accompanying insert indicates what the two channel is recorded at.

I'm not doubting you, but I did check on your first post, got frustrated, and abandoned it. Some further inquiry is merited, but I'd like first to see that this outputs this rate.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

Thanks for checking this out for me! I was relying more on the 5900M's OSD to tell me what the sample rate was on the Hotel California DVD-A than my pre/pro (Theta Casablanca 2). For some reason when playing back 96K or 192K DVD-A tracks in analog bypass mode, my processor always reports the sample rate as being 48K. Sounds like your MC-12B is behaving the same way. In any event, the 5900M's OSD indicates the Hotel California DVD-A 5.1 track is 24/96 and the 2 channel track is 24/192. Do you hear a crackling sound when playing back the 2 channel track in analog bypass mode on your MC-12B? It sounds identical to the problem we experienced previously on 24/96 audio-only DVD's. I'll follow-up with Theta as to why the pre/pro would report a 48K sample rate when presented with a 96K or 192K analog signal. I do have PCM downconversion set to "OFF" in the 5900M's setup menu. However, I thought PCM downconversion only applied to the digital output, not analog. I'm confused about this sample rate issue and will investigate further. However, my main question now is whether you hear the crackling sound on the 2 channel track on Hotel California. I've experienced this on 2 separate copies of the disc, and am curious if this is a 5900M problem or soemthing else.

BTW, I extensively borrowed from your excellent 5900M/Entre ProntoPro layout you posted at remotecentral.com. I'm in the process of setting up a Marantz RC-9200 and your ideas on the Sovereign system made it much easier for me to come up with a workable layout. Thanks for your efforts on this, and the DVD-A issue above!

Tom

Glad I could help, Tom. But as I recall, I did get a 24/96 "report" flashing from my Lexicon on the 24/96 discs, but it just kept cutting out . . . not crackling.

By the way, I assume you've got audio menu set in the Kenwood to "off" for downconversion?

I'll be interested in your findings. By the way, I've significantly revamped my Sovereign scheme (well . . . maybe not significantly). Problem is that to use the two requires a constant shifting of remotes, and that's what I'm trying to address.

Let me know if you find anything else out. I've resigned myself that the DV-5900 is just plain defective in design when it comes to 24/96 discs, but it's not something I care about terribly much. I'm interested in what else you discover.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nicholas
Glad I could help, Tom. But as I recall, I did get a 24/96 "report" flashing from my Lexicon on the 24/96 discs, but it just kept cutting out . . . not crackling.

By the way, I assume you've got audio menu set in the Kenwood to "off" for downconversion?

I'll be interested in your findings. By the way, I've significantly revamped my Sovereign scheme (well . . . maybe not significantly). Problem is that to use the two requires a constant shifting of remotes, and that's what I'm trying to address.

Let me know if you find anything else out. I've resigned myself that the DV-5900 is just plain defective in design when it comes to 24/96 discs, but it's not something I care about terribly much. I'm interested in what else you discover.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I definitely have PCM downconversion set to "OFF" in the 5900M's setup menu. I think the difference here is analog vs. digital signal input to our pre/pros. When we were trying the 24/96 audio-only DVD's we were passing the 96K digital signal from the 5900M to be decoded by our pre/pro's DACs (at least that's what I was doing). Thus, it would make sense that the pre-pro would detect a 96K sample rate. I believe our conclusion here was that the 5900M was not capable of cleanly outputting the 24/96 digital signal.

With the DVD-A's, however, we're passing an analog signal to the pre/pro decoded by the 5900M's DAC's. I am playing the DVD-A in analog bypass mode on my pre/pro. I would imagine the pre/pro is not capable of detecting the original sample rate within an already decoded analog signal, and reports it at a default value of 48K. I have written my contact at Theta to confirm, and will let you know what their reponse is. He is very knowledgeable and I'm sure will know the answer. If that's the case, you'll have to rely on the 5900M's OSD to report the sample rate for the soundtrack you're listening to. BTW I tried the 24/192 2 channel track on Hotel California again last night and it played without crackling! Maybe it's a connection issue on my end, or an intermittent problem with how the 5900M reads the disc. Have never had a problem with analog decoding of 24/96 material by the 5900M. I'll investigate further.

I'd be interested in seeing your new Sovereign setup for the ProntoPro. I'd be happy to e-mail you mine as well. I tweaked it quite a bit from what you had and enlarged it to take advantage of the bigger display area and more hard keys on the RC-9200. I'll contact you via PM.

Thanks again!

Tom

MediaStorm,

I also reported a similar issue with the, "disc flip, this disc is unreadable and cannot be played in this player" -- at least I think that's what it says. You'd think I'd have the message memorized, considering how often it happens. I've also started using my HTPC to playback a DVD when my unit decides to wig out. It's nothing that can be reproduced, unless I ask the Entre to perform a scan on all discs -- then I'll have anywhere between 5 and 20 discs that it will not read.

I have never had a lockup while playing any disc -- I did have several while trying to use the NetNamer software, which I quickly deleted from my PC.

I have also experienced the issue where a disc will play great one time and then absolutely refuse to play a second time (Star Trek, TNG). It is not consistent -- the disc worked fine the last time I tried to use it.

I've given up on getting any kind of Kenwood support, they were never able to solve any issue I brought before them. I either figured it out on my own with the help of posts in this forum, restored the unit (Entre & 5900) to factory defaults, or just gave up!

The last time I emailed Kenwood about duplicate entries in my Entre Music and Movie guides -- here's a quote from the email response:

"As far as troubleshooting, you are of the evrything we would suggest, and if this is not fixing it, seem this is another bug. If you have posted this on AVS forum, OpenGlobe will have seen it, and they may try to work on a fix for the next software update."

Since Kenwood is not acknowledging the issue with, "disc is unreadable" -- I don't hold out much hope for a fix. Once again, I've just given up. I'm waiting for the next great DVD player from another manufacturer. I would gladly take the unit in to where I bought it if there were a known fix to the problem.

Heroildo

Gentlemen,
Thanks for giving us this great forum which has provided me with great insite. I've been reading this particular thread since it's inception, but never posted before. That said, I'm finally sounding off.

I've just had my first serious 5900m failure. The front panel buttons have stopped working. The only two that work are the "Open Door" and the scroll knob. All others don't respond any longer. Don't know what happened. Static or power hit. The unit is fully functional using my Pronto remote, but I'll eventually have to send the unit back to Crutchfield for a Repair. However, I'm trying to wait until a Kenwood releases a Firmware update and do it all at once.

I do have a few other issues which others have complained about as well.

1. My unit also makes the Vibration type noise when reading or playing the beginning of a DVD. I did read of the glueing of felt in the housing fix. Will look into this.
2. My unit also, every now and then gives and unreadable disc error when trying to play clean or brand new DVD's. Selecting another disc then replaying the original disc seems to work so far. Probably happened 4 times since I purchased my unit last November.
3. also my unit does suffer from rather long layer changes. Long enough that it takes your mind off the movie, and just when you think the unit might have frozen, it starts the next layer.

Have never had a problem with CD-R or CD-RW or MP3 disc's. And I have a lot of them.

The unit is the first DVD player I've ever owned. It's great, I love the capacity and the picture quality, but I do share, some of the "Finger crossing" when we have company over.

Nick,

Heard back from Theta, and it seems my theory was correct. At least on the Casablanca and Casa Nova, the sample rate displayed by the pre/pro is for digital inputs only. When an analog signal is input, it displays the default sample rate of 48K. This value has no meaning for analog signals, however. This makes sense, as how could the pre/pro know what the original sample rate was for a digital signal that's already been converted to analog in the player. I'm fairly sure your Lex behaves the same way. The OSD on the 5900M seems accurate in reporting the signal content of DVD-A tracks. Since the high rez signals on DVD-A (and SACD) can only be output from the player in analog form, the player's OSD is the only way to determine channel format, sample rate, etc.

I take it when you tried the stereo soundtrack on Hotel California DVD-A it played normally for you?

Tom

Just to let you know regarding sample rates. My MC-12B does not show a sample rate with analog signals. If the unit is showing a sample rate then it must be using a digital input.

You're right, Anthony. It is a digital signal.

However, I checked on Tom's particular problem, i.e., whether there was "crackling" (or some distortion) from the analog outputs of the Hotel California disc, and there was not--not from my player or processor.

Tom, as I said in my email, you're probably right that it's the cables or the player. I'm betting on the cables.

Nick :cool:

I recently purchased 2 5900m's and the entre. I was told by the Kenwood representative that a hardware fix to enable the daisey chaining with the entre would be released this summer. I purchased these units only for DVD movies.

I have also noticed several problems:

1. DVD units are very very sensitive to dirt on the DVD's.
2. Vibration noise at the very beginning of play (noise is noticeably louder on one dvd player.
3. Random notice that DVD cannot be read. But when I place it in the other 5900m it read it, go figure.
4. Entre locks up and has to be rebooted.
5. Entre (or openglobe) cannot find the or identify about 25% of my 600 DVD collection. I have tried the work around of manually typing in title, still will not id the disk.

thanks for this forum, it has answered a number of questions that I thought were defects, but were just manufacturer design problems.

Even with these problems, I see great promise in this setup, wish it didn't cost so much.

I tried the Sony mega changers, but no daisey chain ability
I tried the Pioneer mega changers, but 4 out of 5 broke (ejection from the playing mechanism back into the carausal (sic) kept breaking) and the playback was very soft on all the players (video was not that great).

Originally posted by zinja
I recently purchased 2 5900m's and the entre. I was told by the Kenwood representative that a hardware fix to enable the daisey chaining with the entre would be released this summer. I purchased these units only for DVD movies.

Summer usually means Fall. But I've waited long enough that I'll give them until then.


1. DVD units are very very sensitive to dirt on the DVD's.

I have noticed this, too. Several discs would start stuttering and skipping or freezing, and only a slight smudge on them. But wiping off the smudge eliminated this.

Random notice that DVD cannot be read. But when I place it in the other 5900m it read it, go figure.

Or, for that matter, just turning the unit on or off, or switching to another disc, and then . . . returning to the original problem disc reveals no problem. Happened to me just recently.


Entre locks up and has to be rebooted.

Something commonly reported when the units first came out, but has seemingly gone away for the most part, at least with my Entre.

Entre (or openglobe) cannot find the or identify about 25% of my 600 DVD collection. I have tried the work around of manually typing in title, still will not id the disk.

An ongoing problem. There's some lag time with new discs as they're released, but I don't know how long the lag time is. Keep in mind that the Entre will not--at least in not in my experience--automatically look up discs which you've entered an interim title and generic disc jacket symbol for. You've got to check periodically to see if the information has been added to OpenGlobe.


Nick :cool:

Does this mean I'd have to ship it back to the US from Europe just because they don't want to burn a CD-Rom? :rolleyes:

Brett....Not sure. Must wait and see what they end up doing. At this point...No one is sure until it is offically announced. Who knows...they may come up with some way.

zinja...Have you downloaded the current Entre OpenGlobe software via the SETUP/Utilities area? The new code seems to be very good in regards to the lockups.

I assume that I have downloaded the newest entre software, but how would I know. Everytime I log on and check the update site, it says that there is a new update, even if I download, reboot and check, so it would seem that it always says new software available.

What is the version number you show? that would be a good way for us to help you know if you have the current code. :)

OOps, that would help,

Software Ver.: KMC-1.0.2.7
PIC Ver: 10
Bootloader Ver: 1.11

Does Customer ID indicate how many of us there are out there in Entre land, I'm in the early 7000 number

Well you have the current version. ;)

Not sure about the customer ID as a counter for I was one of the first to get one and my number is only 1/2 of yours. :)

Hello happy forum users,
First, I want to start off by saying that I don appreciate someone starting and continuing this thread. I do not know of any other online resource for Kenwood Sovereign users.

Thank being said, this is a very long thread and I have read through it and think that I have followed it pretty much. It appears that most people are having problems with the Entre as part of their set up. This is one of the reasons I stayed away from it. Yes, I think it will be great once they work out the 'kinks', but I have distracted myself away from my point.

I am a Sovereign DV-5900M and VR-5900 w/ PowerTouch III remote owner. My main problem is this: It would be great to view my DVD/CD titles on my remote. Not the remote's instruction manual says that you can assign a changer to your CD icon and set up the memory transfer, but apparently it was designed only for Kenwood's older 200-disc changers.

Here is the simple question. Has Kenwood given any indication that they will release any kind of firmware or remote flash program to update compatibility with at least the DVD changer and the remote? I know that I am not the only user requesting this, and I know that people are having much more frustrating problems. I guess that I just like a summary of Kenwood's actions thus far, if any. Thank you.


PS: Has anyone had any slight issue with the VR-5900 sending output to the wrong speakers in Dolby 5.1 (i.e.: Subwoofer instead of Right Surround), when it appears that all connections have been made properly?

Hi August.

I have experienced a couple of times the 5.1 decoding on the VR-5900 giving strange results, such as having the center channel output going to the subwoofer. After restarting (unplug) the VR-5900 it comes back to normal operation again. I hope this will be addressed in a future firmware upgrade, but in the mean time I know the workaround...

Regards, /Lars
Plano, TX

Welcome to the thread...

"It appears that most people are having problems with the Entre as part of their set up."

I would like to take accept ion to this. The problems reported are about the Entre in general. Most who have this as part of their system for movie management as well as the other items it does are very happy with it. We are just waiting on more for it like the multi-changer support. I for one will not give it up.

Not sure what to tell you about the remote...for my Powertouch...when I used it...would transfer title into to the unit. Not sure about CD changer items...But it did for the Entre control...which you do not have.

David, as I understand it, you must own the kenwood receiver in order for the entre to communicate with the remote, is that right? Because after spending $4,000 on 2 5900m's and one entre, my wife will not let me buy one more toy, I do have the RAV remote (Yamaha's clone of the pronto) for the RX-v1 as well as my original pronto.

Wow, first post on new page.
Nick, thanks for the reply, but how do I check to see if Openglobe has the information. As I understood it, if there is more than one version of your DVD movie (ie, collector's edition, special collector's edition, director's cut special edition, superbit edition, edition to suck more money out of person's who want to watch the latest special editon edition, etc.) that the Openglobe will not id the disk.

As to the entre, I like to tinker (not really hack) with my computer (like upgrading memory, maybe putting in a larger hard drive into my TIVO, you know, the easy tinkering stuff), so the entre is a fun (if not expensive) piece of equipment, that if it gets the proper developmental support from Kenwood and the support from the real hackers, it will be a great addition to my movie watching capabilities. Like all good things, it just takes a lot of time to fully develop, and than it needs a lot of us playing with the insides. If you got into the pronto remote several years ago, you will know what I mean. When that first hit the shelves, nobody could program the thing, no-one had ccf's posted and no-one had the discrete codes. Philips really dropped the ball on development, support and relilability during those first few years. Now look at it, I suspect most of the people in forums now own a pronto or pronto clones, regualry search the internet (Remotecentral.com) for new ways to really screw up their prontos. Hopefully, entre will obtain at least some modicum of cult following now found with the pronto.

Originally posted by zinja
Wow, first post on new page.
Nick, thanks for the reply, but how do I check to see if Openglobe has the information. As I understood it, if there is more than one version of your DVD movie (ie, collector's edition, special collector's edition, director's cut special edition, superbit edition, edition to suck more money out of person's who want to watch the latest special editon edition, etc.) that the Openglobe will not id the disk.

Hi Zinj:

Have to believe you're doing something wrong. I have over 400 discs (some are already waiting for Entre Functionality in a second changer) but for those in the first changer, I'm down to about three for which there's no lookup.

If that's the case, your numbers tell me you're doing something wrong.

When you go into "Options" on the Entre, select "Edit Disc." It will bring you to a screen where the title can be manually inputted, and there are options off to the right. Your first attempt should always be the top right option--"lookup disc." Most discs are found this way.

If not, however, you have to make sure you have at least a portion of the disc's title entered
in the manual input section. Then, scroll to the middle right option--"search for disc." Nearly always, that will cure the error.

Point is . . . I can't have as many discs as I do and have a near perfect record (there are some anomalies, like the Twin Peaks 4 disc set . . . all discs are "Disc Three") while you're batting at 25% failure rate. I even checked just last night, and some of the problem discs I noticed in the past--The Pink Panther, Last of The Mohicans (got animated cover art on each) are cured. In fact, I checked and found that The Others was now available, when it was not available just a few weeks ago on release.

Play with it some more, because if it doesn't work, then you definitely have the most eclectic disc collection on Earth. Which maybe is a good thing, but just not if you own an Entre.

Nick :cool:

Thanks for the suggestin Nick, I will try it later tonight when the wife goes to bed, leaving me to play with my toys. As to eclectic, I don't think so, I put my A-list DVD's into my first player and all my war movies, westerns and $5.99 DVD's into the second player (which isn't hooked up to the entre yet). Maybe Kenwood should just give everyone two entres when they purchase 2 DVD players and one entre. Wouldn't solve the problem, but I sure would be happier.

"Not sure what to tell you about the remote...for my PowerTouch...when I used it...would transfer title into to the unit. Not sure about CD changer items...But it did for the Entre control...which you do not have."

David,
Yes, I udnerstand that the problems are really with the Entre itself and that you can transfer titles from the Entre to the remote. What I was inquiring about, pertains to my set up (minus Entre). As a consumer, I should be force to purchase the Entre when the PowerTouch is supposed to be a full featured remote. The changer and receiver alone cost a pretty penny.

zinja,

As of a couple of weeks ago I had only about 15 out of 350 discs that the Entre could not find. I recently had to perform a restore to factory defaults to correct another issue. I now have over 100 discs that the Entre can not find (discs that I know were there). I've contacted Kenwood & OpenGlobe and I've yet to receive a response. They may be experiencing problems with their database.

HM

Originally posted by AugustH
[BDavid,
Yes, I udnerstand that the problems are really with the Entre itself and that you can transfer titles from the Entre to the remote. What I was inquiring about, pertains to my set up (minus Entre). As a consumer, I should be force to purchase the Entre when the PowerTouch is supposed to be a full featured remote. The changer and receiver alone cost a pretty penny. [/B]

August,

I was able to get the titles from the changer (without the Entre) into my 5090 remote (step down from the Powertouch - LCD but no touchscreen) without any problems. Your problem may be that you are setting it as a CD source/changer instead of a DVD source/changer??

It's actually set as a DVD changer. Per the manual though, title transfer is supposed to work when you set it up as a CD changer, but it does not in my case.

From Lars158:

"I have experienced a couple of times the 5.1 decoding on the VR-5900 giving strange results, such as having the center channel output going to the subwoofer. After restarting (unplug) the VR-5900 it comes back to normal operation again. I hope this will be addressed in a future firmware upgrade, but in the mean time I know the workaround... "

Lars,
Thanks for the suggestion. Unfortunately, it didn't change anything in my case. I think I will just have to disconnect everything and start from scratch.
*sigh*

The odd thing is that if I unplug the sub., the remaining speakers are identified properly. So I am thinking something is screwed specifically with the sub. connection/setup. Any ideas there?

I was contacted today by a research firm called Boo Investigations, they were given my name by Kenwood for opinions about the Sovereign product line. I am the owner of two DV-5050M's. I was very honest with them and told them about all of the problems that I have had with my changers and how little help I have gotten from Kenwood. I explained that the product in my opinion did not live up to Kenwood's advertising and that the human interface was very difficult to work with. Overall I gave the product a poor rating, I did point out however how satisfied I was with the picture and sound quality but that it wasn't enough to make up for the other deficiencies. Months have passed without any sign of a fix for any of the problems that I have experienced. I explained that if Kenwood would not support its premier lkine of products I could not in good conscience recommend or endorse them. Perhaps the results of this survey will help to make Kenwood realize that they need to take appropriate action to satisfy the needs of those hat have invested in their products.

Tom

Originally posted by hmatos

I also reported a similar issue with the, "disc flip, this disc is unreadable and cannot be played in this player" -- at least I think that's what it says. You'd think I'd have the message memorized, considering how often it happens.

I have experienced this identical problem as well. I have only the 5900 (no Entre) and I have been unable to reproduce the problem reliably. It seems to happen randomly for no reason I can determine, last for a day or so, then just as mysteriously go away. When my player is in this state, I get the same error message on all the disks in the player. It is maddening!

b00bie, you are not having any problems with your kenwood product. It is your imagination. Thank you for shopping kenwood.

amen!!!!! soon i have a big decision to make. I am rapidly approaching 400 dvds. I might be tempted to give the new sony being released a test drive as a second player. especially if it's ip addressable.

Originally posted by b00bie
I was contacted today by a research firm called Boo Investigations, they were given my name by Kenwood for opinions about the Sovereign product line. I am the owner of two DV-5050M's. I was very honest with them and told them about all of the problems that I have had with my changers and how little help I have gotten from Kenwood. I explained that the product in my opinion did not live up to Kenwood's advertising and that the human interface was very difficult to work with. Overall I gave the product a poor rating, I did point out however how satisfied I was with the picture and sound quality but that it wasn't enough to make up for the other deficiencies. Months have passed without any sign of a fix for any of the problems that I have experienced. I explained that if Kenwood would not support its premier lkine of products I could not in good conscience recommend or endorse them. Perhaps the results of this survey will help to make Kenwood realize that they need to take appropriate action to satisfy the needs of those hat have invested in their products.

Tom

Originally posted by hmatos

I've contacted Kenwood & OpenGlobe and I've yet to receive a response. They may be experiencing problems with their database.
HM
Hi Hmatos,

Finally found out why we aren't getting more action from Kenwood:

They are using an Entre to sort incoming mail! :rolleyes:

Anyone hear whether we'll see DVD cover art for DVD-Audio Titles on OpenGlobe?

The main attraction of the DV-5900 to me, as opposed to just buying two DV-5050s, was the DVD-Audio capability of the former.

Now that DVD-Audio is up and running well, and I've got nearly thirty titles, I'd like to see cover art as if from other DVDs. I recognize this is primarily an OpenGlobe issue, but anyone (translated: David) know anything differently?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Hi Nick....Sorry to say I have not heard anything on DVD-Audio. And you are right...it would be OpenGlobe that would have to supply the info.

I do not ever recalling reading anything about that it was supose to have this in the database. Thus it would need to be added. It is their a on-line database that you know of that has this data for this type of disc? (I am asking because I do not know.)

AVIA was and is located in my first disc slot in my DV-5900M. Entre originally looked it up just fine.

Sometime later, I added a DVD-Audio disc, Al Green's Greatest Hits, and gave it another disc slot. Although no cover art (see prior post), I entered the information and gave it the generic DVD-Audio cover art supplied in Entre.

Yesterday, AVIA disappeared from my menu in Entre. In its place were two of the aforementioned Al Green discs. I tried to revise by having the disc searched in Entre, both by regular lookup and by title entry. Neither worked. Can't find anything, or so Entre says.

In the meantime, Entre is working fine. I'm thinking that there's an issue with AVIA and OpenGlobe. Or perhaps internal confusion between AVIA and AL GREEN (alphabet conflict of some kind).

Can't tell,and I'd appreciate another Entre/AVIA owner checking it out.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I've had trouble with the Entre and AVIA also. In my instance it seems to substitute AVIA for unknown discs. At one time, I had 3 copies of AVIA showing in my Entre movie guide. I have since removed the unknown titles from the player and the conflict went away. At present I just have 1 entry for AVIA for the actual slot it occupies. I think one of the AVIA title substitutions was on a DVD-A disc. It does appear that there's something strange going on with the Open Globe DB and the AVIA DVD.

Tom

But do you have a serial cable connected to the 5900? If so, try it without the cable connected to the unit and see if the problems go away.

I've noticed that the lockups are much more pronounced and frequent if the serial cable is connected but can't nail it down specifically. The cable tests good and I've tried two PCs as well as just plugging the cable into the 5900 and leaving the other end unconnected. It seems that just having the cable connected makes the unit act silly sometimes.

I'd be extremely interested if anyone else who has been having intermittent issues with lockups can test the cable theory and let the group know if it makes any difference on yours or not.

MediaStorm,

Just an FYI from someone who has always had their serial cable connected (no Entre in the mix) who has never experienced an OS/functionality glitch with their unit.

OK, except that recently, the eject mechanism stopped working...

JonDeutsch,

I would take the unit in and have it replaced (if possible) or fixed. The eject mechanism on my unit stopped working within the first couple of weeks and I experienced the "disc is un-readable" issues that have been discussed. I took my unit in a couple of weeks ago and the store manager replaced it with a new 5900M. Of course, this was after I showed him a print-out of this thread and "explained" to him how wonderful it was to own these two products.

I have not had ANY, "disc un-readable" issues and my eject mechanism is still working (fingers crossed!). I do however, still have 75 discs not found in the OpenGlobe database, that were there before!

HM

Report any OpenGlobe glitches to openglobe@nsc-support.com

I just got that from the OpenGlobe rep on the phone. Perhaps it's been posted before, but it seems like a handy way to alert OpenGlobe of problems.

Nick :cool:

Nicholas,

Thanks, already did that 2 weeks ago -- I've yet to see anything from Kenwwod or Openglobe.

H

What exactly do you mean when you say eject mechanism is not working?

Mine does eject from the center into the slot, but doesn't push it forward so I can grab it like some people have reported it's supposed to. I never considered it a big deal since I don't remove discs that often, but if it's related to the "disc unreadable issue" then I might consider getting it fixed at some point.

Thxs.

Originally posted by hmatos
JonDeutsch,

I would take the unit in and have it replaced (if possible) or fixed. The eject mechanism on my unit stopped working within the first couple of weeks and I experienced the "disc is un-readable" issues that have been discussed. I took my unit in a couple of weeks ago and the store manager replaced it with a new 5900M. Of course, this was after I showed him a print-out of this thread and "explained" to him how wonderful it was to own these two products.

I have not had ANY, "disc un-readable" issues and my eject mechanism is still working (fingers crossed!). I do however, still have 75 discs not found in the OpenGlobe database, that were there before!

HM

slocko,

In all honesty, I have no idea if it did. I do believe that the "disc unreadable" issue cleared up the moment I got this new player. So it might have something to do with a quality control issue. If it's under warranty or if you can return/exchange it .... I would!

HM

slocko,

btw, I was having the same eject problem you describe -- the disc would not be pushed out.

HM

Slocko,

Exactly... my unit USED TO push the disc out every so slightly so I could use the tip of my fingers to extract the disc that I ejected.

No more, however... the unit simply rotates the wheel so that the ejected disc faces me. It's up to me to pull it out entirely.

Note that the loss of this feature has not affected the performance of the unit in any other way to my knowledge.

can everyone who has suffered from the "unreadable disc" problem report if their unit pushes the disc out slightly so it can be grabbed when the disc is ejected.

might just be a coincidence. why do i get the feeling that sooner or later i will have to unload my entire player????

slocko,

I felt the same way as you -- the idea of having to remove 400 discs didn't sit well with me. Until I had no choice -- one day the unit jammed and I had no choice but to haul the entire thing (discs and all) to the place of purchase. It was quite a site as customers walked by and saw the store manager opening up the to remove the discs. I ended up having to put the discs in several plastic bags to get them home.

Oh well, at least I got a brand new changer and no more eject or "disc unreadable". I also opened up several slots by removing bonus discs and television shows from the changer.

I do agree with you, it's probably all a conincidence. But then again, I don't believe Kenwood even admits that there's a problem with the eject mechancism or that "disc unreadable" even exists.

HM

Just got my VR-5090 and I have a few newbie questions:

I also have the DV-5900M DVD changer.

How exactly do I hhok up the RS-232 plugs? Does connecting the reciever to the DVD player via RS-232 do anything? or hooking up the receiver to the computer do anything?

Where does the "SL16 text" on the receiver plug into?

Does the "SL16" on the receiver plug into the "DVD control" on the DVD player? It doesnt seem to work.

Slocko,

I get the unreadable disc error once in a while on both my changers but the eject mechanism works fine on both.


Tom

MY GOD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I am building a new house and HT room/living room. I have been seriously considering the entire Sovereign line until I found this thread. The biggest draw to me was the progressive scan mega changer and the HD for MP3's in the Entre. After reading this I think I am running for the hills, or at least back to the drawing board. Any other progressive scan mega-changers? My components are in a closet so I'd rather load DVD's less often than not. Oh well, it looked pretty in the pictures. Thanks to all of you for ALL of your posts about this line and the guidance it has provided me!

DerekFSU, hi fellow 'nole, i graduated in '81. Don't be put off by this forum, the units are fantastic and even with the bugs there is nothing better. No other mega player has progressive scan, sony does not daisey chain, pioneers are even less reliable (and less versatile). You might want to wait another 3-6 months so that they get the entre working for up to 3 changers (it only works with one now). Of course if you have less than 400 dvd's your ok for now with the one changer and the entre. Note that most of the people on this forum hate the bugs, the problems and the wait for the upgraded entere (so that they can connect three changers). This forum is all about the problems we experience so you don't really hear about the good things that this lien-up has. The great thing about this forum, is that you have people lilke dave botts who can answer questions. Try to get sony, pioneer or even kenwood to resond to our concerns. At the end of the day, a forum like this will help you enjoy your product more, you'll learn if the problem is a design defect, or a defective unit that needs to be replaced. You'll learn about the workarounds that no manual carries. So before you decide against these mega monsters, think about the support you get here verse the support for some other manufacturer.

I'd say that if you don't care about the Entre, it's a pretty good choice. I'm direct selecting the disks with my Pronto (actually a Marantz) remote. So, you are left with an occasional can't play error (most of which are probably people in a user file or a continuous play mode while trying to select a DVD), and the 'buzzing' during DVD playback (which is only on some players).

My *Only* significant gripe is the loud playback, and I hope to get that fixed soon. I'm not an entre user and have no intention of gettting one. The Progressive Scan, 403 disks, *and* DVD-Audio with Bass Management make for a compelling set of features. The other stuff is (for me anyway) just fluff.

Derek,

If you can wait, wait and see what the competition will be offering. I know
Sony has a progressive player around the corner. If you can't wait, then the kenwood entre and 5900 are the best thing going on right now despite the bugs.

I think the reasons most of us are frustrated are due the fact that this thing delivers a great picture and features not found on other players, especially the entre/5900 combination, but at the same time has problems that should not be in such an expensive piece of equipment.

I think most of us have come to expect our electronics to work as advertised day in day out unless something breaks. It either works or it doesn't. With the kenwood you get random problems which are the worst kind to experience (reminds me of windows 3.1).

Why Kenwood ever rushed this product to the market no one will never know. As you have discovered the competition doens't have anything ready yet so why the rush? All kenwood has done is whet the appetite of people while at the same time alienating them. In the end it might not matter since we will always gravitate toward the vendor with the best technology, regardless of prior history.

I want to echo zinja's sentiments...

Just because the 5900M has its share of frustrating bugs doesn't mean it's not a great unit. I think that most of the passion around the problems of the Sovereign units is generated by the overall excellence that has been unfortunately scarred by mismarketing and user interface missteps.

In the above statement, don't let the word "excellence" get buried. The 5900M has phenom video, audio, and is the only changer in the world that supports DVD-A, and one of the only DVD-A units in the world that has bass management for DVD-A.

It does allow you to catelogue every single disc you own , no matter what type (sans SACD), into one database. This is incredibly valuable. Why should I have to manage my DVD-A or MP3 discs seperately from my traditional CDs?

So, let's recount the positives of the 5900M:
- class-leading progessive processing
- excellent audio
- wide variety of inputs/outputs
- ability to be daisy-chained (progressive signals, audio)
- DVD-A capability
- DVD-A bass management
- 8 custom user files (user definable sorts of your library)
- Assign a genre to each disc
- Playback by genre
- CDDB auto-labling
- PC Interface for managing library info
- 3 easy-access slots for movie rental discs
- disc flip feature
- integrates with Entre hub
- output audio from all ports simultaneously

And I'm sure there's more. Just remember, all the complaining on this thread is under the assumption that we're taking everything that ships for granted.

You folks are great. I cannot thank you enough for the INCREDIBLY helpful info. I do want to have my MP3's available to my home system. Would you rec the sovereign system without the Entre and just something else for the MP3's? Would I loose the cover art on the screen to navigate the megachanger without the Entre? Thanks again.

{Zinja- GO Noles! Class of '93. You'll have to stop by sometime when you are up for a game. I am also putting a Mitsu 73909 in the living room. I am bringing it through the back of a wall so the only thing visible will be the screen coming through the wall. Anways, Go Noles!}

Derek,

You can play CDs full of MP3 files on your 5900M without an Entre. Just burn a disc full of MP3 songs (and preferably put them in logical directories/folders for easy access) and throw it into the 5900M. Since the 5900M can read CD-Rs, CD-RWs, VCDs, SVCDs, and MP3 discs, there is no problem using the 5900M without Entre to listen to up to 500 MP3 songs on one disc.

The only disadvantage of MP3 discs within the megachanger is that you can only label the CD by tittle, artist, 1 genre, and 1 user file. Because of that, you may want to split out your MP3 library onto logical discs for easy access in the future.

thanks Jon. Do you still have the benefit of cover art for DVD's on the TV screen without the Entre for the benefit of DVD navigation? Thanks again.

Derek,

No. Without the Entre, you have a simple text-based interface for managing your disc collection. You can search on genre, custom user file, disc slot number, first character of title, or first character of artist.

I do not have the Entre so I can't comment on what you gain from it.. I can only tell you what you have with a base 5900M unit.

Originally posted by Floydbob
I'd say that if you don't care about the Entre, it's a pretty good choice. I'm direct selecting the disks with my Pronto (actually a Marantz) remote. So, you are left with an occasional can't play error (most of which are probably people in a user file or a continuous play mode while trying to select a DVD), and the 'buzzing' during DVD playback (which is only on some players).

My *Only* significant gripe is the loud playback, and I hope to get that fixed soon. I'm not an entre user and have no intention of gettting one. The Progressive Scan, 403 disks, *and* DVD-Audio with Bass Management make for a compelling set of features. The other stuff is (for me anyway) just fluff.

There is a fix for the "...'buzzing' during DVD playback". My dealer is coming by to install a piece of felt which stops the 'buzz' to where you can't hear it from the listening area.

Ken, after they fix the buzzing, let us know if it really quites the unit down. Both my units buzz, one much louder than the other. But they are both in an entertainment center, behind glass, so I can't hear them. Besides after listening to Pearl Harbor several times at levels that make it seem realistic (afterall, isn't that what we're trying to achieve), who can hear anything anyway.

Got a e-mail and a phone back this week myself from the folks at Boo! research. Talked with a nice lady (too bad she called me from her house on the beach on a Tuesday!!! Feh.) about the good points and bad points I saw with the 5900M and with Kenwood's lack of customer response and focus on customer service. She said the items I mentioned seemed to be 'a trend' in the comments she was getting so far.

Oh well, hopefully just one more addition to the folks at Kenwood to open up and talk about what's going on... and free Starbucks (which my fiance will enjoy quite a bit...)

Got the long layer change on Vanilla Sky the other night. I guess I've gotten used to it enough now that I just let it go. Works best when the movie company was able to split the layer change in a scene transition. Still slightly annoying though. ;)

ON a different note.. has anyone read the February Home Theather Mag review of the 5900M? It's not on their web page, and my local library doesn't subscribe.

Yes, I read it. If I recall correctly, they gave it glowing reviews. I haven't read one bad review of the changer yet, in fact.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Derek,

You can play CDs full of MP3 files on your 5900M without an Entre. Just burn a disc full of MP3 songs (and preferably put them in logical directories/folders for easy access) and throw it into the 5900M. Since the 5900M can read CD-Rs, CD-RWs, VCDs, SVCDs, and MP3 discs, there is no problem using the 5900M without Entre to listen to up to 500 MP3 songs on one disc.

The only disadvantage of MP3 discs within the megachanger is that you can only label the CD by tittle, artist, 1 genre, and 1 user file. Because of that, you may want to split out your MP3 library onto logical discs for easy access in the future.

What has been your success rate with SVCD content? I've tried several and they all seem to 'stutter'. The same discs play back on my Pioneer 525 without any problems at all but the 5900 won't play them.

I've tried several different encodings and they all have the same problem. VCD also seems to be hit or miss as well. Discs that will play on other dvd players aren't even recognized by the 5900.

Originally posted by slocko
can everyone who has suffered from the "unreadable disc" problem report if their unit pushes the disc out slightly so it can be grabbed when the disc is ejected.

might just be a coincidence. why do i get the feeling that sooner or later i will have to unload my entire player????

Mine pushed the disc out about an eighth of an inch all of about 3 times. It just stopped pushing them out after that. No jams or any physical cause, just stopped working. Unreadable disc 'blackouts' continue on a random basis.

I think it is time to find a service center close by.

Yeah, I'd had problems with SVCDs... I thought maybe it was the way I encoded them.. I guess not. Well, hopefully the firmware upgrade will address those issues as well as the UI issues.

Originally posted by zinja
Ken, after they fix the buzzing, let us know if it really quites the unit down. Both my units buzz, one much louder than the other. But they are both in an entertainment center, behind glass, so I can't hear them. Besides after listening to Pearl Harbor several times at levels that make it seem realistic (afterall, isn't that what we're trying to achieve), who can hear anything anyway.

It quiets it down a lot. If you pop the cover you can see the culprit in the back right corner. It's a curved rod with a slot in it that supports the drive as it rotates. Just touching the rod stops the buzz almost completely by not allowing it to vibrate against the disc housing. They just didn't leave enough space to compensate for the tolerance stackup of the assembly.

The DVD noise really only bothers me during the menus and during quiet passages at the beginning of the disc - usually DVD-Audio.

My dealer says he's gone out and fixed several already - no big deal to do.

Ken, the dealer I purchased my two 5900m's is about 1.5 hours away and I have already loaded both players (about 600 DVD's), so I really don't want to take these puppies anywhere, is it easy for me to do the repair in my house, or is it one of those things best left to an authorized dealer, afterall, I sure don't wnat to void any warranties.

It's easy to do - I would try to get the dealer to send a kit and authorize you to do the fix. Definitely don't want to void the warranty on these mechanical type units.

I talked with a Kenwood training rep about the hardware fix for the entre to control three 5900m players. He stated that it was the number one question asked and that he thought that the fix would be announced at CEDIA in mid-September.

He also said that within the next several days there would be a download which would permit the entre to interface with more usb ethernet devices.

My dealer (Brent TV in Torrance) came out yesterday and installed the "buzz" fix - pretty simple - he just added a couple of stick on felt pads. I don't know why you couldn't do it yourself if they sent you the pads. I'm happy now - no real issues left since I don't use the Entre.

i just read over in the kenwood forum at the Spot that one of those kenwood survey people called a registered user and after taking down his complaints (same as listed here) told him that this summer a flash update will be made availabe that will be applied through the serial port. this person also told him that the speed issue when starting a dvd will be addressed in the next generation player.

Still not great. The fact that the article exists is what's troubling. Cedia, with its upgrades, better get here quickly.

http://www.tvinsite.com/twice/index.asp?layout=story&doc_id=91147&display=breakingNews

Nick :cool:

A related rumor is what has kept me from investing in a 5900M or 5050M. The fact that the rumor coincided with a price drop was not encouraging.

Alright, what rumor, what price drop, why is the Kenwoodusa site not working. Panic, fear, oh me oh my.

This rumor. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=143014&highlight=Kenwood)

I was hoping that "Pete" would have been a little more forthcoming.

OK, I saw the rumor, no big deal, the economy in Japan is in the toilet, as is the US stock market. Of course there will be cutbacks. Could be a good chance to pick up a lot of equipment cheap, except the US dollar is falling against most currencies.

What price drop? I did see that Crutchfield has listed the 5900m for $1,199, which is $200 per changer less than I paid for my two just one month ago (at a real AV store, not on-line).

The price drop was from about $1399 to $1199 about 1 month ago. Crutchfield is an authorized Kenwood dealer, perhaps the only one on the Internet. Their price is usually the same as most AV dealers, i.e., not discounted, but they have an excellent return policy.

Their price matches the Good Guys in-store price, Good Guys only discounts a few advertised items or has a 10% off sale regularly. GG is one of the few authorized dealers in S. Cal. and only carries the 5900M as a special item, i.e. 50% restocking charge.

He may have been referring to this Twice News Article (http://www.tvinsite.com/twice/index.asp?layout=story&articleId=CA223989&pubdate=06/18/2002&display=searchResults) but never mentioned it. But it reads their is no issue and support is continuing.

I know they are looking to do something at CEDIA with the new firmware release.

Some good CEDIA Kenwood product announcements and product updates would be welcome and go a long way torwards dismissing any rumors.

The real question is what is considered to be an "underperforming sales subsidiary" as mentioned in the article.

Hello everyone. I have been following all of the Kenwood threads at this wonderful forum for over 6 months. It has been an extremely valuable resource. With that being said, I need some advice.

I am beginning to rebuild my entire entertainment system from the ground up. I want to start with a DVD/CD megachanger. I have been drooling over the DV-5900M for 6 months and now I have an opportunity to get one. The question is, should I? My major concerns are the 3 second layer change, the first few seconds of audio CDs not being played and the eject disc mechanism failing.

It will be used mostly for audio cd storage and just popping a DVD into a rental slot when I want to watch a movie. I'm not interested in the Entre Hub at this point. It will be connected to my old Sony STR-DE915 amp for audio until I can afford to upgrade to the Pioneer VSX-49TX later this year. It will also be connected to my 35" Panasonic TV via S-Video. I won't be upgrading my TV anytime soon since I cannot receive any High Def signals in my part of Colorado for god only knows how long.

I think this unit would be a great start to building my new system. I would just like to know if good really does outweigh bad and if there is any chance that the bad might be fixable soon. Mostly the layer change issue.

I have not heard of anything from any other company about a product that even comes close to doing what the 5900 can in the near future. Has anyone?

I want this thing so bad, but at the same time, I just know Pioneer will release a monster a few months later if I buy now.

Dang, I didn't mean to ramble on for so long.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Bob

Hi AVS guys - this forum is great btw...

Here is a quick question: did anybody of you try to use the entre/dv5900 with another automation system? can I control the entre using a serial interface from a automation system?

best,
Olv

I think some are doing it with Girder and other software on the HTPC forum.

If you are not going play dvd-audio why don't you get it's cheaper sibling the 5050? I think you can get that one for $800 now.

That being said, you can't miss what you never have experienced. Since you want to upgrade several components over time, I would replace the player last so you can see what the competition is going to do.

Originally posted by Bob_422
Hello everyone. I have been following all of the Kenwood threads at this wonderful forum for over 6 months. It has been an extremely valuable resource. With that being said, I need some advice.

I am beginning to rebuild my entire entertainment system from the ground up. I want to start with a DVD/CD megachanger. I have been drooling over the DV-5900M for 6 months and now I have an opportunity to get one. The question is, should I? My major concerns are the 3 second layer change, the first few seconds of audio CDs not being played and the eject disc mechanism failing.

It will be used mostly for audio cd storage and just popping a DVD into a rental slot when I want to watch a movie. I'm not interested in the Entre Hub at this point. It will be connected to my old Sony STR-DE915 amp for audio until I can afford to upgrade to the Pioneer VSX-49TX later this year. It will also be connected to my 35" Panasonic TV via S-Video. I won't be upgrading my TV anytime soon since I cannot receive any High Def signals in my part of Colorado for god only knows how long.

I think this unit would be a great start to building my new system. I would just like to know if good really does outweigh bad and if there is any chance that the bad might be fixable soon. Mostly the layer change issue.

I have not heard of anything from any other company about a product that even comes close to doing what the 5900 can in the near future. Has anyone?

I want this thing so bad, but at the same time, I just know Pioneer will release a monster a few months later if I buy now.

Dang, I didn't mean to ramble on for so long.

What do you guys think?

Thanks,
Bob

My biggest problem right now is that I am in desperate need of more storage capacity. My old Pioneer PD-F1004 100 disc player just isn't getting the job done anymore. I would like to be able to play DVD-Audio in the near future as well. The other option I was considering was picking up a Pioneer PD-F1009 (300+1 CD capacity) for $250 now, and sit back and see what the competition does. That is, unless the 5900M is good enough "as is" and the few minor quirks are things that might be fixable. I just can't decide what to do. I've been debating this with myself for so long that I can't think straight anymore...lol

unless you are using mp3 discs, i think the 5900 is too slow for music. i have never played cds on it, but if it takes just as long as it does to get a dvd started, the random feature would be useless for listening to music.

if your tv only has s-video I would just wait. Get yourself the cheap jukebox and a cheap dvd player. i think the 5900 is overkill for just music unless you want to enjoy dvd-audio, especially if you can't even take advantage of the component video.

I'd have to agree with Slocko. If your primary need is CD playback, I would look at the Pioneer (and maybe the new Sony that does MP3 - CDP-CX455). While the Kenwood has a beautiful picture for DVD's, it will not overwhelm you with the disc management features (without the Entre).

Thanks guys. I didn't know that the Kenwood would be that bad for CD playing. I was just hoping it would be a nice "all in one" unit so I could try to cut down on the number of components and wiring mess in my cabinet, and have something with all it's features and abilities to build on as I upgrade my amp and tv. I guess I will go get the Pioneer in 2 weeks and then just sit and wait to see what happens this Fall/Winter. If something better does come along that meets my needs, I can always sell the Pioneer and get some money back.

Thanks again,
Bob Stanley

Hi all,
I just purchased the 5900M and the entre. I have put 7 new discs into the unit, two of which the player says are not readable. The 5900M is a recent crop just obtained from Kenwood and is reported as just arriving here from overseas since Kenwood was previously out of stock. This info came from the factory rep who I spoke with who said that it was the most recent verison. The discs are also new and clean. Is there anyway around this? Could someone please summarize what is know about this problem. Should I get a new one or just give up and return it for my money. Thanks

Are your Disks CDs or DVDs?
Regular pressed ones or CD-r/CD-RW/DVD-R/DVD-+RW?

Where did you buy the unit?

Check your return policy,
if you disks are regular pressed ones,
clean, etc - then it looks to me like the unit is defective.
-olv

The 5900 is hyper-sensitive to any scratches or smudges on the play-side of the DVD disc. There have been several which, after "shining up" a bit, have then played or lost the unreadable disc message.

Some, however, never do, and despite the fact that the disc will play fine in other players, still gives the 5900 a headache.

Take a look at the disc's condition, and, if it's even a little bit smudged, that is probably what accounts for your answer.

Nick :cool:

Hi all-

Great info on the Sovereign stuff here. I am going to be hooking everything up this weekend (Entre/ DV5900/VR5700) and I wanted to ask about connections. There are several ways I can hook things up. In my theater I have a Sony D50 projector (for main screen) as well as a 29" NEC data/video montitor (for the ultimate picture-outside-of-picture.) I want to hook up to the projector using progressive component for the best picture. I was wondering if the picture is compromised when it is passed thru the Entre? Does the Entre create progressive scan GUI screens? I do not want my projector to have to switch between video memories every time the OSD on the Entre comes on and off (if that switches the output frequency.) It may be possible to hook up the Entre S-video output to my 29" monitor and the component output of the DVD changer directly to the projector input. In that set-up I would use the 29" for the Entre control screens and watch the DVD once it is playing on the projector. I only want to do this if it will really be better, since I do not want to complicate things too much for my family. What do you think?

Originally posted by mikemav
I want to hook up to the projector using progressive component for the best picture. I was wondering if the picture is compromised when it is passed thru the Entre? Does the Entre create progressive scan GUI screens?

It's a static image. I use my DV5900 in its interlaced mode, through the Entre (I don't need the progressive scan because it gets fed to a Faroudja NRS 720p processor). But I sometimes look at it on the s-video input of my RPTV Hitachi (I usually use a NEC CRT projector) and it looks fine. I wouldn't worry a bit about it.

I do not want my projector to have to switch between video memories every time the OSD on the Entre comes on and off (if that switches the output frequency.) It may be possible to hook up the Entre S-video output to my 29" monitor and the component output of the DVD changer directly to the projector input. In that set-up I would use the 29" for the Entre control screens and watch the DVD once it is playing on the projector. I only want to do this if it will really be better, since I do not want to complicate things too much for my family. What do you think?

Although I'm not doing what you're proposing, I suppose I could. The component video outputs from the Entre go to my NEC projector/Faroudja combination. The s-video outputs go to a RPTV (through an A/V preamp). Both are active at the same time, so I don't think there is any need to switch between them. If I turn both on at the same time, the same image is fixed on both, one through the component, the other through the s-video.

However, there is little to be gained in using the monitor for the OSD. The OSD from the Entre reads fine across my large screen (107" wide x 60" high). One of the main problems with the Entre/DV-5900 ensemble is a clunky user interface. After you highlight a selection on the Entre and press enter on the remote, you've got time to fix yourself a quick drink before you actually get a dvd playing. I don't know why you'd want to add to that process by injecting a different monitor into the mix.

Nick :cool:

Thanks for the info Nick. One more question. When the DVD does (eventually) start playing, and the Entre OSD goes away, if the DVD output is progressive (unlike your set-up) wouldn't you think this would confuse the projector momentarily? That is, if the static image from the Entre is not progressive and the DVD pass-thru is progressive? That was what I was worried about.

I see what you're saying. I used to have a D50Q, and I'm wondering if it's like my NEC, i.e., its memory corresponds to the input? That is, if you have it set up for a 480p memory, it will automatically switch to that once it detects that as the input?

I'm trying to think, however, why the Entre would output a signal at anything differently than what was going into it? I'm betting that the signal it puts out is the same as goes into it. If so, that would solve your problem, since there would be no switching involved.

Nick :cool:

Mike,

You are right the signals are different and the Monitor/projector will have to switch between them. On my set you see momentary switch. But you could do what you are saying and use a different monitor and eliminate the switch.

i ran into the unreadable disc problem again. it happened around 3pm and i turned it off and left it alone till 10pm. the problem still persisted.

i did notice one thing. during this problem the eject mechanism completely stopped working. usually i can hear the player trying to push out the disc out of the slot (even though it doesn't work for me). during this problem the player was silent everytime i pressed eject if the disc was out of the center already. after playing with it a while i finally heard the mechanism try to eject the disc out of the slot. after i heard the sound i tried to play a disc again and the problem was gone.

i am beginning to think they might be related in some way. maybe the reason it can't read the disc is that it's misaligned inside the center somehow. I imagine that the mechanism that puts the disc in the center is the same one that ejected it and pushed it out to be grabbed. maybe it's getting stuck somehow at random intervals.

I'll check from time to time on whether certain disc information has made its way to OpenGlobe. In this case, the disc I was looking for was "From Hell," the new Jack-the-Ripper exposition (title actully comes from a letter attributed to ol' Jack--pretty decent flick).

In any case, it wouldn't or couldn't look anything up, because I supposedly could not log in to OpenGlobe. I have internet connectivity, as I then went directly to OpenGlobe to look up some cds. Rebooting the Entre didn't help.

This only happened today. Anyone else try looking up a disc, or ever have that message before?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Hi Nick...Just tried OpenGlobe and did a serch foe the movie...All was well. Wondering if they were down for something.

Something's wrong at my end. If I try to get in to edit any disc, I get the message "could not login to Openglobe." I'm assuming there's nothing wrong with my internet connectivity, because I was able to access OpenGlobe from the Remote.

I looked at the utilities menu and nothing seemed to have changed. However, for "server" there's no information. Possible?

If anyone can help, I'm much obliged. Otherwise, I'll call OpenGlobe tomorrow. I can't imagine there's a 24/7 line available.

Nick :cool:

I'll try again when I get home tonight, but here's the explanation which may pass:

Nick,

After speaking with our services group, it was discovered that one of three
servers behind our load balancer was down last night through this morning.
The machine has been restarted. They checked your account and did not note
any invalid data that would keep you from accessing your account. Please try
your lookups again this evening, and let me know if you still experience
trouble.

Thanks for your patience,
Mike


Mike Fadlevic
Director, Customer Service
OpenGlobe, Inc.
(an Escient Technologies Affiliate)
6325 Digital Way
Indianapolis, IN 46278


By the way, you could not hope for a nicer and more accessible fellow. If this is an example of OpenGlobe responsiveness, they get A+ so far. Now if it only works . . . .

Nick :cool:



[Edited to remove phone and personal e-mail in case it was not Ok'ed to be published.]

Everything appears to be back to normal, which is to say that I'm still having problems with some discs (AVIA mysteriously disappeared, although it's in slot 1, and no matter what I tell the Entre, it won't believe me--still thinks there's two "AL GREEN's GREATEST HITS," on DVD-Audio.

When I try to search for the disc "FROM HELL," there's nothing. When I enter its title, still nothing. Would someone else confirm for me what they get from Openglobe? I thought from David's post that he had looked it up and found it.

Nick :cool:

Sorry Nick...I looked it up IN OpenGlobe with the OpenGlobe button. I thought that is what you where having the issue with. I did not try a lookup for the disc itself via options.

Anyways...I still can not get Harry Potter to be found! Doah!!!

Does anyone have Vanilla Sky or Ocean's Eleven. These 2 movies are not found when I do a search. I would think they would be. lately a large amount of movies are not being found. I had a 100% hit up to a month ago now I have ten movies not found in their database.

Ocean's Eleven turns up, but it's the 1960 version with the real Rat Pack . . ..


Nick :cool:

I just received a 5050M that I got from the Crutchfield outlet store for about $700. Its a big sucker.

Anyone sent one back recently?
Is there anything I ought to know while setting it up?

Interim Report Card on Entre/OpenGlopbe Discs


ALL DVD AUDIO DISCS F

If Entre controls a changer which doubles as a DVD-Audio player, then we have every right to expect it to download cover art and disc information on one of the main reasons that a DV-5900 is purchased. Until Kenwood & OpenGlobe address this issue--that nothing is there for DVD-Audio--your expensive toys are failures.


UNFINDABLE DISCS

FALLEN (Doesn't Produce the Disc with Denzell Washington & John Goodman, but some other "FALLEN ANGEL" disc that nary a few have seen.

AVIA - the mysterious disappearing AVIA. Used to be there. I know it's in disc slot 1, though I just moved it. It purports to have no information or cover art on this standard home theater disc . . . so that must have been an illusion I was spying for all those months, as the AVIA disc had cover art and information available.

eXistenz--Nothing for this disc either, which is is a fairly popular discs. Now of course someone will tell me they have it. I do have the special edition disc, which I think was made in Canada.

Gosford Park--nothing. New release though.

Harry Potter--nothing. Not that new a release.

From Hell-- see Harry Potter.

My Favorite Year--see Gosford Park.


Otherwise the Entre gets a solid B. But there is room for great improvement, and way too much ball dropping yet to keep anyone happy. And, dare I mention the real peeve . . . .multichanger control? If that promise is not made good at CEDIA, I have a different plan, which may be far more fun for us all.

Nick :cool:

"FALLEN (Doesn't Produce the Disc with Denzell Washington & John Goodman, but some other "FALLEN ANGEL" disc that nary a few have seen. "

I also got this in the past, but I now have the right disc.

As far as DVD-A...Yes, it will play them however I have never read that the disc info would be available for them. DVD's and CD, yes for the databases are their...However I have not seen this for DVD-A. On that same note however...I poped in a DTS DVD-A by Sting and it pulled up the cover at and the track list.

Yes...Harry Potter I was VERY suprised at!!!!!! Espically for a Major Movie!!! I still do not find this one!

They need to get their act together. It has been out for a while now. I am happy but these problems others are having is just ridiculous.

The multi changer control will make or brake this product. I will be dumping them if they don't fix this. And will probably never buy another Kenwood product again if they don't fix it and it better not cost us alot of money for something that should have been there from the start.

Vanilla Sky, Harry Potter and Ocean's eleven etc. etc. are big movies and should be their fairly quickly. I didn't pay this kind of money to wait six months for this info.

As I said in an earlier post, I ran into a situation where titles that were there are no longer found by the Entre (after a reset to factory defaults). Here's a very long list of my missing titles ("disc not found"); I have already forwarded the information on to OpenGlobe & Kenwood on several ocassions!

The 6th Day
American Pie 2 (Unrated)
A.I. - Artificial Intelligence
Atlantis - The Lost Empire
Best In Show
Billy Elliot
Bridget Jones's Diary
Bring It On
The Broken Hearts Club
The Client
The Contender
Crouching Tiger, Hidden Dragon
Dungeons And Dragons
Edge Of Seventeen
Eraser
Ever After
Final Fantasy, The Spirits Within
Ghostbusters II
The Gingerbred Man
Harry Potter
Hocus Pocus
Johnny Mnemonic
The Journey Of Jared Price
Jurassic Park II - The Lost World
Kate & Leopold
Me, Myself, I
Mr. Holland's Opus
Muriel's Wedding
My Best Friend's Wedding
Mystic Pizza
Not Love Just Frenzy
Ocean's Eleven (2001)
Office Space
Planet Of The Apes (2001)
Pleasantville
Queer As Folk (American Series): The First Season (Disc 1 thru 6)
Riding In Cars With Boys
Sabrina
Sacred Silence
The Siege
Snow White & The Seven Dwarfs
Speedway Junky
Spin The Bottle
The Stand (Stephen King) - Disc 1 & 2
Star Trek III: The Search For Spock
Star Trek: The Motion Picture (Director's Cut)
Thirteen Days
Traveling To Olympia
The Truman Show
Victor Victoria
What Women Want
The Witches Of Eastwick
The X Files (Movie)

As far as DVD-Audio not being in their database ... absolutely PATHETIC! How many DVD-A titles are there anyway? If they can't or won't add any of this information, then why don't they just let us supply the information via the Media Manager software? As awful as the software is, it at least lets me supply my own cover art and title information for music discs -- and I don't end up waiting for months for OpenGlobe to decide to add a title to their database.

Why do they feel they need to handle this any different than the way they handle audio discs in their software?

btw, to all of you that are getting the "disc is un-readable" error -- I'm starting to think it was a hardware defect. I had my changer replaced about a month ago and the problem mysteriously corrected itself.


HM

Is anyone controlling their 5900M/5050M with DVDLobbyPro/DVDLobbyPro Menu Maker?

not yet. I'm waiting for Mario to add category support to dvdlobby. we watch movies by deciding on the type of movie we are in the mood for and then browsing through the category.

as soon as he adds that i will buy one of the pc tablets with wireless access and give it a go.

Anyone else?

Originally posted by kelliot
Is anyone controlling their 5900M/5050M with DVDLobbyPro/DVDLobbyPro Menu Maker?

Not yet - like Slocko I'm waiting. I just haven't made the time to set it all up. I just use DVD Profiler and punch in the number for now.

Here are some discs that Entre won't yet recognize:

1. The Hustler

2. Gosford Park

3. The Man Who Wasn't There

4. Victor Victoria

5. Harry Potter

For the first time tonight, I looked through the movie information on OpenGlobe. Each of the above-mentioned movies were there, with disc information and cover art.

Doesn't it seem logical that if the cover art and disc info is available on OpenGlobe, that Entre should be able to capture it? Why, then, isn't the bridge from the one data base to the other being built?

Nick :cool:

maybe the bridge is built but full of potholes :)

Well guys here is my list. Out of 180 dvds so far 31 cannot be found even after manually putting in the titles and looking up and about another 50 I had to input the titles manually and they were found.
These are not found at all even after manually putting in the titles and doing lookups:

3000 Miles to Graceland
A.I.
Alice Cooper: Welcome to my Nightmare
Almost Famous
American Pie 2
Billy Elliot
Bounce( But it did find the 2nd special features dvd. Weird)
Chocolat
Dracula 2000
Final Fantasy
Finding Forrester
Harry Potter
Hoodlum
Josie and the Pussycats
Men of Honor
Moulin Rouge
New Jack City
Ocean's Eleven (Found the original instead)
Outland
Ozzy Osbourne: Live & Loud
Planet of the Apes (again found the original)
Save the Last Dance
Scary Movie
Shrek (I can't believe this wasn't there)
Speed 2
The 6th Day
The Ladies Man
The Score
The Tailor of Panama
The Watcher
Traffic

Next week I will be adding another 120 discs and I am not looking forward to the results based on what has happened so far. A 45% original failure to find rate and a 17% complete failure rate is unacceptable to me when I spent $6000 on this setup over a Denon simply because of the lookup feature.

If anyone has found theses titles please let me know how you did it.

Originally posted by Rudmeister
Well guys here is my list. Out of 180 dvds so far 31 cannot be found and about another 50 I had to input the titles manually and the look them up.
These are not found at all [include]:

3000 Miles to Graceland
Almost Famous
Chocolat
Moulin Rouge
Shrek (I can't believe this wasn't there)
Traffic



This is the problem with Entre. I've eliminated most of the titles listed by Rudmeister, since I don't own them. But the ones listed above are discs I own all of which appear on on my Entre screen--the information is there for me, but not Rudmeister.

The problem is that Entre is not uniform. Some people probably still have the AVIA information. I can't download it for the life of me. I've got the above titles, and I'm sure there are others that do as well.

One of the things I've learned is NOT to try the "edit disc" route. Rather, go to Entre "setup" and go then to "changer management." Then go to the "disc range" section.

If, for example, the problem disc is in slot 199, then enter the range of 199 to 199. Then have Entre look up the disc. You will often get different results from what you get by the "edit disc" function.

Nick :cool:

Hmatos

Even with all mine didn't find it did find Thirteen Days which is on your list.

Help? I have been following this post, but at 35 pages long, it is hard to remember everything. My Entre has just stopped working. The standby light on the front just blinks but it does nothing else. I have unplugged it for several hours but with no results. Is it "locked up"? Can you "reboot"?

Rudmeister,

That doesn't surprise me -- I have AVIA on mine and at one point, most of the discs on my list were correctly identified by the Entre. OpenGlobe has done something on their end to cause this latest problem.

HM

Originally posted by kelliot
Is anyone controlling their 5900M/5050M with DVDLobbyPro/DVDLobbyPro Menu Maker?
Anyone else?

I continue to be happy with the audio and video performance of my DV-5900M/Entre combination on an ongoing basis. Sure there are the minor little nits that are well documented in this thread. However, their presence is not significant enough to detract from my overall enjoyment of the combination. However, the rest of my family has had useability issues with the Kenwood system from day 1. This system is not as intuitive as I'd hoped for a casual user. It has been an ongoing source of frustration and I'm getting tired of dealing with it. I'm seriously considering going back to a high quality single disc player, and resigning myself to the fact that a DVD megachanger was a failed experiment in my household. I have a library of over 400 DVDs so in practice it seemed like a great way to consolidate everything in one place. I'm not going to try too hard to sell them, but if I could find someone willing to buy both pieces at a reasonable price I'd let them go at this point. Both units are in excellent condition and have all included accessories, manuals, boxes, etc. Send me a PM if interested and we can discuss further. I will only sell the 5900M and Entre as a pair, not individually. David, hope you don't mind that I posted this here.

Tom

Tom...I find the useability issue you mention intriguing. I have had the exact opposite here at my home with the the combo being the source of most media played here. Even my 71 year old Dad was able to use it.

HOWEVER...My issue with it is the remote with the arrow keys not being passed to the charger when in DVD mode. What a pain that is having to go to a different remote to make menu choice changes. Now that makes for an issue!

Hey...my wife can use it. ;) Thus not all that bad. LOL

David,

I think a lot of the issues stem from the early days of the Entre when it was so buggy NO ONE could use it. That built a natural resistance to using the system that's been tough to overcome, even with the dramatically improved stability of the Entre. The 2 remotes don't help useability either, but I'm in the process of programming a Marantz RC-9200 (Pronto Pro variant) that should help. Additionally, I don't have broadband Internet access (with no idea when or if I will), which limits the Entre's utility. Also, I have a 2nd system in the house that the kids often use to watch DVDs. I try and leave the titles they watch out of the changer, but invariably they'll want to watch something that's loaded and they're not able to easily retrieve the disc. Finally, integration of the Sovereign components with my Theta processor is not very user friendly either, as opposed to an all Sovereign system including their receiver (which I think you have). Those are some of the key points but there's others as well. Unfortunately, it's just not the right setup for my household and they prefer the simplicity of a single disc player. Like I said, it's kind of a halfhearted attempt to find a buyer. If I find one, I'll let it go in the interest of domestic harmony. If not, I'll stick with it and try and improve my training!

Tom

Ah! I see better now your issues. Yes...A broad-band connection would give you more use of the functions the Entre offers. I can see how that would limit you. As far as your connection to your processor...I do not see the issue I am sorry to say...I also tried it with an MC1 and did not have any real issues to speak of. (It was a test I did for a friend.) I went from an MC1 to a Dennon 5800 and now to the Sovereign. I only use the Sovereign receiver for the audio processor...not even the amps.

But I can see some of the issues. And yes...The two remotes are a pain. In our family room, Office, and bedroom, I use a SL-9000 and have the Entre controls in the CD button, and the DVD controls in the DVD button. So...Put Enter to select audio or DVD's...if DVD, after I select I press the DVD button on the remote to control the DVD player.

In the theater I use a Niles Intelicontrol. I programmed the Entre and DVD remote code into it and I am good to go.

Has there been any word on a firmware update for the standalone 5900 to correct the layer change delay, etc.? I try to check in here once in a while and have not seen anything.

Also, if anyone has any idea what the upgraded version of the netnamer software gives you, I would like to hear it. My theory is "if it's not broke, don't fix it" but if it gives you a few more features, I'll take the plunge.

I am running 1.30.

Thanks,
BJBBJB

I hope this is OK to post in this thread. I know most of the people on this thread are Entre owners, but this seems to be where the activity is. Let me know if I should post elsewhere.

I am trying to program the 5900 to play multiple CD's in their entirety using the "Program Playback" mode.

On Page 49 of the manual it says" It is also possible to enter the disc number alone without selecting a group/track number in the program list. In this case, all of the tracks in the disc will be played back".

This is good and what I want to do but I cannot get the machine to do it!

When you hit "program", then "Disc Sel" and pick a CD, you cannot hit "set" and not enter anything in the group and track input areas. And if you just pick the disc and sit and wait, it times-out and starts over..... Of course you can put in a group number and a track number and THAT works, but I really do not want to have to program each track when I want to play a whole disc. I just want the player to do what the manual says it will do.

I really don't understand why it is bringing up a group number anyway for a basic CD, as I thought that was for DVD-Audio. I assume whatever you put into the group number for a CD is ignored anyway.

Anyway, help would be appreciated from anyone that has gotten the 5900 to play entire CD's using the program mode.

I tried to use the netnamer software to do this, and even though the online help for the netnamer software says it would allow you to pick an entire CD in the program mode, it does NOT (the "all" button the help talks about is not in the software).


Thanks.

BJBBJB

I've mentioned several times how I once had AVIA (downloaded its description and cover art) from OpenGlobe. Then, suddenly, it disappeared, and all attempts to get Entre to either look up the disc, or search for it by name are futile. It's as if it never existed.

Others have commented on the same experience with AVIA, as well as some other discs which I don't have.

I was recently looking for cover art to use for a newly inserted DVD-A disc. In the "GET COVER ART" section of the "EDIT DISC" Function, there are some generic cover art images to use, and I was about to scroll down to DVD-A, which is the last canned image. Then, as I continued to scroll down, I noticed that available as cover art were images I'd downloaded for discs in my DVD library, but, more importantly, discs I used to have and got rid of. If, for example, I'd rented a disc and Entre had looked it up, its image was still there, even though the disc was gone.

Well, the image from AVIA was still there. So, despite the fact that there is no description available from OpenGlobe, I still remember the title, and I just used the cover art that was stored in the Entre. In other words, if it appears that you've forevere "lost" something that was once there, it's likely still there, but you have to manually flick through the cover art images in the "GET COVER ART" section of "Edit Disc."

Hope this helps.

Nick :cool:

BJ,

I know that in today's day of age the internet is all the rage, but I think you would be better served in this particular instance of calling the support number for kenwood. They should be able to help you with this particular problem.

Give them a call and then let us know whether it's a bug or user error :) Probably just poorly worded instructions.

Originally posted by BJBBJB
I hope this is OK to post in this thread. I know most of the people on this thread are Entre owners, but this seems to be where the activity is. Let me know if I should post elsewhere.

I am trying to program the 5900 to play multiple CD's in their entirety using the "Program Playback" mode.

On Page 49 of the manual it says" It is also possible to enter the disc number alone without selecting a group/track number in the program list. In this case, all of the tracks in the disc will be played back".

This is good and what I want to do but I cannot get the machine to do it!

When you hit "program", then "Disc Sel" and pick a CD, you cannot hit "set" and not enter anything in the group and track input areas. And if you just pick the disc and sit and wait, it times-out and starts over..... Of course you can put in a group number and a track number and THAT works, but I really do not want to have to program each track when I want to play a whole disc. I just want the player to do what the manual says it will do.

I really don't understand why it is bringing up a group number anyway for a basic CD, as I thought that was for DVD-Audio. I assume whatever you put into the group number for a CD is ignored anyway.

Anyway, help would be appreciated from anyone that has gotten the 5900 to play entire CD's using the program mode.

I tried to use the netnamer software to do this, and even though the online help for the netnamer software says it would allow you to pick an entire CD in the program mode, it does NOT (the "all" button the help talks about is not in the software).


Thanks.

BJBBJB

Thanks Slocko. I actually did contact Kenwood on these issues and here is the status:

Unfortunately the netnamer software problem I mentioned regarding program playback of entire discs was not user error, the function is not in the software although the help file describes it. It has been reported as a bug....

As far as using program play from the remote or front panel to playback full discs as described in the manual, they are still "looking into it" and are supposed to get back to me. At least initially, they are having the same problem I did in programming complete discs to play back in program mode. If any other standalone users have been successful using this feature, please let us know.

I was also disappointed that they knew nothing of a firmware upgrade to fix some of the other problems that have been mentioned numerous times here, ie. the layer change delay, etc....


BJBBJB

Well, make no mistake about it.

Kenwood has, from day one, talked from both sides of its mouth concerning all its Sovereign Products. It remains to be seen whether Kenwood will really support these products. The ongoing issues concerning the "partnership" with Kenwood and OpenGlobe have created some problems that weren't there, though solved some others. But Kenwood also too conveniently blames OpenGlobe for not delivering. I didn't pay for an OpenGlobe product.

And, have fun getting one iota of "commitment" from Kenwood on whether they will address known limitations, or, as in the case of Entre and multiple changer support, undisputable failure of delivery on what they represented the product would do.

Supposedly, but Kenwood will not say this publicly, there is going to be a "fix" for the multiple changer support issue announced at CEDIA. That'll be about a year that I've lived with a product that could legitimately form the basis for a consumer fraud claim, so that's how long I'm giving them. And if anyone else gives them longer, and believes their promises if nothing is fixed at CEDIA, then they are gullible and are facilitating Kenwood's deceptive practices.

Do I like the product? Yes. Did I get what the manufacturer said I was getting when I bought it? No. At some point, just liking the product does not excuse failed promises or even downright lies, so my clock is ticking.

There really remains a lot unresolved with Sovereign, and the recent price-drops suggest trouble to me. I am legitimately wondering whether the product will be supported in the forseeable future, and whether Kenwood is not really planning to leave people holding the bag. Beware of companies who keep making promises, but then keep pointing to some future date when the promises will be fulfilled.

Nick :cool:

Nick, you have good points regarding the failure of Kenwood to support its products, especially the entre. I purchased two 5900m's and the entre in April, with the expectations of a entre/changer fix this summer. I sincerely hope that Kenwood steps up to the plate and delivers the entre goods. After all, I can put up with some of the buggy quirks if I am confident that Kenwood is working on a fix. Unfortunately, we seem only to be getting lip service. As much as I want 800 disc capability, there are several alternatives and I, for one, will not wait until the DVD players become obsolete and the entre to become just another door stop. One thing I am confident about, is that if Kenwood fails to carry through on its support, these puppies are going back to Kenwood for a full refund, one way or another. :(

Nicholas,

Once again, I agree with you 100%! I for one would love to see Kenwood address the issues in this thread once and for all. In all honesty, even if they provide a "fix" for the multiple changer issue -- I just don't believe it will work as advertised, considering their track record.

I for one have started to wonder how useful it will be to support 3 changers, when disc changes are so painfully slow. Not to mention the, "disc is unreadable" problem.

:p I can see it now ... you have a party and you're playing from a playlist that took you days to make with the Media Manager software. There's pleasant music in the background then quiet ... no music.

:mad: You check your Entre, it's hung ... the screensaver is burning a copy of the B-52's, Wild Planet coverart onto your RPTV ... no response from the remote. Everyone at the party is wondering why you're cursing at the television.

You reboot ... once again pleasant music in the background

Then .... another long pause ... this time it's one of the changers and it's unable to read any of the discs ...

HM

What I want to hear from Kenwood is one of two things:

1. Here's the fix, sorry for the wait.

2. Sorry for the failure, here's your money back.


I'm giving them to CEDIA. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt that the fix will be adequate, but I 've got to see it first. If the fix isn't there, I will provide information, whether on this forum or not, on how each and every purchaser of a an Entre, or a DV-5900, or a DV-5050M, can take steps to assert their positions.

Nick :cool:

It appears that OpenGlobe/Kenwood have put out a new software release (1.1.0.7). I'm not sure what this will break or fix (if anything).

HM

You will find this new code to be much faster with the screens (like scrolling). Also...the DVD lookup hit rate should increase. I say this because I wiped my system and did a re-lookup before the new code came out. I had 62 UnKnown DVD's. After the new software, it found all but 19 of them. (weird ones)

Oh...Be sure to rescan for Internet Radio stations. That is also very much improved connection speed wise and playback wise. But you need to scan for the stations again to get their new settings. Also new graphics for the stations.

But it sure seems like they're on vacation with new titles being added. Harry Potter, The Hustler, Victor Victoria, Gosford Park, The Man Who Wasn't There, From Hell--all these discs have been out awhile now (Gosford Park maybe just a month) and nary a peep of new titles being added.

Has anyone else found this to be true?

Nick :cool:

The following is a response I received on July 30 concerning what the current software was and when the entre would be adapted for multiple Mega DVD player control. Read it and weep, or write it off to another Kenwood employee who is out of the loop:

"In regards to your inquiry, the latest software version currently
available is 1.0.2.7. Currently, the only USB to Ethernet adaptor that is
compatible with the Entre is the Kenwood NetMate adaptor. The Entre is
compatible with most high-speed modems; we have yet to come across a
high-speed modem that was not compatible with the Entre. At the time we do not have any information on a software update that will allow the Entre to control multiple changers. However, we have had many requests for this
update, and we have forwarded this request to have this feature available in future updates.

If you have any further questions or need help with anything, please feel
free to contact us again.


************************************************************ ****************
*******
Kenwood U.S.A. Corporation
Stage 3 Consumer Services
P.O. Box 22745
Long Beach, CA 90801-5745


Alberto Bellaflor
Consumer Service Representative
E-mail for Kenwood USA Corporation:
http://www.kenwoodusa.com/support/email_support.jsp
Phone: 800-536-9663
Fax: 310-631-3913
************************************************************ ****************
********"

Oh well, guess we'll see if anythng happens at CEDIA.

Nick...It found "Harry Potter". LOL Finely! :)

I agree, the screen refresh speeds appear to be alot faster -- although I think this happened when I first installed the previous version of the software. It could have something to do with them rebuilding and/or defragmenting their database.

BUT, and here's a BIG BUT!! I now have 3 to 4 copies of each DVD (i.e., Best In Show now appears 3 times in my guide and it's attached to three different slots). My Entre now believes I have 967 DVD Discs (Changer Stastiics).

This has got to be the biggest piece of crap I have ever purchased. Kenwood & OpenGlobe do you have any idea what QA means in the software/hardware development process?

HM

Hmmm . . .

My first problem like this was the sudden disappearance of AVIA, and its replacement in the menu with a "second" Al Green DVD-A. I was able to cure that, but only because the AVIA cover art was left in the Entre's memory (it stores every piece of cover art ever downloaded in it), but you can't find AVIA on OpenGlobe these days.

Now . . . no sooner did I post today, when David said Harry Potter was available. Indeed it is. And so is, The Hustler, The Man Who Wasn't There, Gosford Park, and From Hell . . . so my theory that OpenGlobe took a collective vacation was either wrong, or they all got back.

But . . . with the appearance of Gosford Park came . . . Two Gosford Parks. Right there, one on top of the other, both signifying an occupancy permit in the same slot. There's no way I can figure to edit it out. But I'll take two instead of none.

As much as I'm serious that I DON'T LIKE KENWOOD'S RESPONSIVENESS, and that KENWOOD SHOULD MAKE GOOD OR PEOPLE SHOULD HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE, I guess I'm compelled to say this:

Right now, there is absolutely nothing happening on the changer market. If you want a changer, it's not as if you can pack up and pick from a different manufacturer--certainly not at the level that we expected from the Sovereign. Fact is, the manufacturers apparently don't see the Changer market as anything they need to be concerned about pleasing. I know that Sony is coming out with a low-end progressive changer, but I strongly suspect it's just more of what we've seen from them already, only in progressive scan. I don't even know if Pioneer has anything more current than the DV-F727 and the DV-F07, which are both luxuriously long in the tooth.

So where to? To people that own changers, they don't want anything else. But the manufacturers have us pegged as a minority that needs no equal rights, let alone special treatment.

Nick :cool:

I wish I only had duplicate entries for one disc -- as I said, the Entre thinks I have 900+ discs. I had the Entre perform a lookup on all discs before I left for work this morning. I'm hoping that will fix the problem.

HM

Originally posted by hmatos
I for one will gladly give up my dreams of having all my discs in one or more changers.

HM

Until they're scattered about in jackets, looking for a space to be stored. And if you plan on continuing to buy discs, I would gladly pay more than I did for 5900 + the Entre, if they would just get it right.

Nick :cool:

HOLD THE PHONE!!!!

I just got off the phone with Brian from Kenwood. They kindly ask that if you have not yet downloaded the update...to PLEASE WAIT!

I have alerted them to the issue reported of the duplicates and they are currently working with OpenGlode to fix the duplicate issue ASAP. Their should be a new update in the next 48 hours that will resolve the issue.

I will also be receiving some information on the changes that were made and will be posting it when received.

Thanks.

Again, why did Kenwood rush this out the door? Did they imagine the competition breathing down their neck? They easily could have waited a year it seems and delivered a breath taking product. I really want to buy the entre because I am so tired of entering titles manually, but until I ready here that this thing is solid, I won't.

Originally posted by Nicholas
Hmmm . . .

As much as I'm serious that I DON'T LIKE KENWOOD'S RESPONSIVENESS, and that KENWOOD SHOULD MAKE GOOD OR PEOPLE SHOULD HOLD THEIR FEET TO THE FIRE, I guess I'm compelled to say this:

Right now, there is absolutely nothing happening on the changer market. If you want a changer, it's not as if you can pack up and pick from a different manufacturer--certainly not at the level that we expected from the Sovereign. Fact is, the manufacturers apparently don't see the Changer market as anything they need to be concerned about pleasing. I know that Sony is coming out with a low-end progressive changer, but I strongly suspect it's just more of what we've seen from them already, only in progressive scan. I don't even know if Pioneer has anything more current than the DV-F727 and the DV-F07, which are both luxuriously long in the tooth.

So where to? To people that own changers, they don't want anything else. But the manufacturers have us pegged as a minority that needs no equal rights, let alone special treatment.

Nick :cool:

David (&Brian),

Thank you!

HM

btw, The "lookup all" did not fix the problem.

slocko...Well you have your thought on it...that is fine. And some would agree with you. I for one am glad I have had the Entre for all this time for it surely has changed the way I use my theater. And you can quote me on that. I have not yet regetting the choice I made to be one of the first to have it.

Sure...it may have had issues...but this is cutting edge product. It is not just a DVD changer. It is more than than when you add the Entre. Hummm...software driven and thus upgradeable. Even software products you have buy are not perfect out of the box. Ask Microsoft. ;) These are software issues that can and are being resolved. As mentioned many times in this thread...It is been getting better and better.

So you know...I TESTED THE SOFTWARE. I MISSED THE DUPLICATES. Why? Because when I got the code ver prior to this one, it did not rebuild the database automatically and I forgot to do it. Thus I missed it. This new code completely redoes the database, thus the faster menus and other things. When .7 reboots, it does a rebuild. Guess what...I, like others, now have dups. It was reported and is being fixed. I personally that the members who mentioned this and to them I say I am sorry for missing it. I am also sorry to Kenwood and OpenGlode for I asked for the code and missed it and they sent it to me in good faith.


HM...Yes..it would not I am sorry to say. For the data stored in the database already has the dups. Prior to ver .7 each time you did a lookup on a range of discs, it seemed it would add one copy. Ver .7 fixed that but did not remove the current dups in the list. Again...Sorry about that on my end.

That's what I get for only looking one screen of the Entre Guide. In fact, with the software update, I added 126 discs. More than one repeater, to be sure. There are a full 400 loaded in it, so it's not a total catastrophe.

Okay, please update us on what we have to do in order to get back to normal.

Nick :cool:

"Okay, please update us on what we have to do in order to get back to normal. "

As soon as they make the fix and let me know it is ready for download I will let you know. (unless you all find it first like you did before I knew about ver .7) The fix/repair will remove the dups from the database and rebuild the data for display. So I am told. :) Was also told it should be within 48 hours.

Will advise.

David, sure hope your right about the fix becuase I just set my entre to to a lookup on range 1-400, since I had over 695 entries in a 400 disk changer, for almost a minute I thought maybe they had fixed the multi-changer problem until I realized that the second dvd player isn't hooked up to the first. lol.

Just hope the 50 or so "DVD Unknown" entries are all duplicates.

It will be interesting to see how long it really takes Kenwood to fix the current problem of multiple listings of the same title.

If you don't have a large amount just remove the discs and let the Entre remove them. When you replace them it only replaces one.

Except I have over 600 DVD's, with 400 already in the DVD player hooked up to the Entre. I don't want to remove 400 DVD's wait for the Entre to remove them, place them back in, Wait 8 hours for the Entre to reload and than have to input by hand over 25% of the 400 that it doesn't recognize. If I were to have to do that, I might as well go back to the Pioneer mega changers.

You only have to remove the ones it has doubled or that it has in the wrong slot. On mine it only doubled the rental slots, so it was easy. Did it double all your movies?

For the duplicate entry problem has anyone tried turning off the DVD changer manually. The Entre will then detect that there is not a changer connected. It will give 3 options retry, ignore, and disconnect. Select disconnect and then the Entre will clear out all the titles. Once the process is complete, Turn the Entire system off. Make sure the DVD Changer main power button is pressed back to the ON position. Turn the entire system ON. The Entre will then detect that there are discs in the changer, and then enter the read process once again. Apparently the title info is stored on the Entre, for it will not need to connect to the internet to catalog the titles again. It takes a little while, but it worked for me.

I just do not care to go though an entire rebuild if I do not have to. :) But thank you for the info and the idea.

On mine, it doubled and tripled some of the MP3 albums as well - ack :mad:

This software upgrade is for sure a step in the right direction, with the significant performance increase using the new database. The slow database was one of my main concerns before, thinking that could be a showstopper for additional changers (it was slow enough with 400 discs). I now believe the effort of restructure the database was a required step in order to eventually get multi changer support with up to 1200 discs to be handled. This is also a sign that atleast someone at Kenwood is still working on the Entre development, which I actually had started to think was not the case...

Now the bad. After upgrading to the new software I also have the multiple entries in the database. In addition, many of the titles I before inserted manually now shows "Unknown DVD" (about 25%) which is a real pain! I also did not see any improvement as far as the ability to automatically find the titles (auto lock-up). I did do a manual search on the Harry Potter disc and it did find it, however the description was basically empty (category was "Educational" !?!?). These particular issues have been reported for months and I am really sick and tired that it has not been addressed by now!!

Improved database speed - GREAT !! Auto lock-up issues not resolved after several months - REAL BAD and frustrating!!

/Lars
Plano, TX

Lars...

I am sorry...But the new software allowed me to AUTO FIND many of the DVD's it could not seem to find before. Even look back a few posts where even Nick reported it found the missing DVD's he had mentioned. Harry Potter is found now without issue.

I do not know what you mean by "Auto-Lockup". I assume you mean 'Auto-Lookup'.

So I am really not sure what you are saying for everything you mentioned is does not see to be an issue for me or others. Except for the duplicate titles.

Yes, auto-lookup was intended - typo...

When looking closer at the new "Unknown DVD" entries I can see that some of these are also available with the correct title, so it appears - atleast for me, that some of the DVD's got one or several "unknown DVD" entries as well as one or several correct entries... Before the software upgrade I did not have any Unknown DVD entries but now I have about 50+ with some duplications. Also, some of the old rental titles now showed up even though they were not there before the software upgrade, so it seems old database information re-occurred after the upgrade (including old "Unknown DVD" entries)... I will wait for the "48-hours update" (Monday?) and see if that takes care of these issues before touching the Entre again.

As far as the Harry Potter, do you also have an entry that is basically empty, i.e. no description and an incorrect category (I have "Educational" even though I would expect "Adventure" or something similar) ??

/Lars

Has anyone used a 5900m with a yamaha receiver? When I pause a dvd or before the dvd starts playing I get a High pitch squeal comming out of my receiver fairly loud. If i turn off the auto detect input on the receiver this stops happening but when i play music from the entre i have to switch the receivers input mode. It seems like the receiver is detecting some sort of analog stream when the dvd player is paused....

Lars....In regards to Happy Potter...No...Mine is correct.

dnsenne...I am sorry. I do not.

Doh! I manually selected the update of the software today (Aug 3) and got 1.1.0.7 and have the duplicate menu entry issue. I tried a number of ways to fix it and then decided to check this thread manually (although I'm subscribed I have not being getting e-mail notifications. Doh2!) I'm stupified why if they know it has this issue they are still letting it be downloaded?!? Perhaps they did actually stop the auto-download process and it would only happen if you manually did the download.

I had tried the below (disconnect) before seeing the suggestion but it didn't work for me. The message as I recall says "music" entries will be removed although I was displaying the movie guide when I powered down the DVD5900. Either way they all stayed.

Physically removed all 100ish DVDs and put only 1 back in a different slot. Menu then showed it twice (in the old slot and new slot). Put all DVDs back in and waiting for the software fix.

It absolutely is cool and useful that the Entre is software updatable BUT these bugs are a pain. No pain no gain sometimes I guess. If they can fix it promptly then there is hope. Like others, however, I'm DARN happy they are actively working on these interfaces. A sure sign they want to move this product forward. Like others, I suppose, I don't brag to my visitors how many problems this has lest I look completely stupid for buying it <grin>.

I wish they (kenwood/openglobe) would keep us informed about what is in these darn new versions on the Kenwood tips web page they provided. www.kenwoodusa.com/sovereign/latest_tips (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/sovereign/latest_tips) . I did notice they have a few more light product manuals/howtos now. I saw an Axcess related one there as well. Appears it's released.

Originally posted by tm1221
For the duplicate entry problem has anyone tried turning off the DVD changer manually. The Entre will then detect that there is not a changer connected. It will give 3 options retry, ignore, and disconnect. Select disconnect and then the Entre will clear out all the titles. Once the process is complete, Turn the Entire system off. Make sure the DVD Changer main power button is pressed back to the ON position. Turn the entire system ON. The Entre will then detect that there are discs in the changer, and then enter the read process once again. Apparently the title info is stored on the Entre, for it will not need to connect to the internet to catalog the titles again. It takes a little while, but it worked for me.

Hey everyone,

I've been pretty intersted in these items, the entre hub and the DV-5900M, since they first came out. I was quite suprised by the lack of buzz on them because they sounded spectacular.
I came upon these posts on the items recently and after reading through QUITE a few of the 700+ posts I've gotten kind of scared.
I think its great that Kenwood is actively taking your problems seriously and fixing them promptly...sort of.
I think now, a year after the first posts in this string, is the appropriate time to ask these questions.
I appreciate everyones assistance in this decision making process for me. You all's opinions are definitely what will be swaying me to wait or to buy.

My questions to you all, especially you David Bott, are these (note that I've never gotten to see either item first hand):
I understand that a year ago these items were FULL of bugs but, after all the fixes and revisions to the software for both the Entre and the DV-5900M, would you now recommend these items to someone else like me?

I've noticed that I could possibly get both units together for $2000 slightly used but in excellent condition in a recent classified I saw. Is this a good deal to you all? What do you think I should offer to buy them for? How about individually, used and new?

What about the DVD-A and Progressive Scan playback? Are they pretty high class or just so so? I know Faroudja is a good name but does it compare to a seperate Iscan Pro?

Okay and my last question. Should I wait for the next versions of these units to come out? (Does anyone know how long that could be?) I'm sure they'll have their bugs too, and a higher price tag, but they'll also have their benefits I'm sure, like faster access and stuff like that.

So okay, I'm not exactly desperate for these items. I currently have a first generation Marantz VC-8100 300 disc changer with THX ultra certification which is quite bare bones but does its job just fine. Though it only outputs 480i, which is half the reason for a possible upgrade. I'd say a bit of the other half has to do with out stupid it is. Having to put every title in by hand is really not fun and heaven forbid you move one. I have to make my own list on Excel for cripes sake!

I'm getting in on that recent Samsung 50 inch powerbuy, so I'm finally making the jump to a HD model. Just had to wait for the DVI to become affordable. So I wanted to beable to get a better picture from my DVD's.

Other than that I was wondering how will the entre interact with the rest of my system. Does it try to take over, or is it just there? I'm guessing its just there to play downloaded music and to help out the mega-changer unless you have the AV unit of course. Which I don't have. Can you get online with it through the ethernet link?


My system is this:
Integra Research RDC-7 and RDA-7
Samsung DLP 50-inch (soon)
Samsung OTA reciever with ieee-1394 (soon)
JVC HM-30000U DVHS VCR (soon)
Pioneer LD player
Monster Power center Ht-5000
Marantz VC-8100 300 disc changer (to be possibly replaced)
Tivo Series two
and some unneccesary to list speakers

Thank you all ALOT for your replies. Anything and everything is helpful, though reasonable responses are better. Just saying "the thing completely sucks, don't buy it" really isn't all that helpful.
But I will take offers to buy any units if you all are interested in selling:-)
Thanks,
Matthew

Hi Matthew:

Supposedly, the problem of multichanger support is going to be solved by CEDIA. Kenwood uses this board to "leak" information which they will not confirm publicly, and that's what they've leaked.

Problem is that this system of disclosure gives Kenwood the opportunity to speak from both sides of its mouth, if it chooses. By making no public commitment to the things it leaks, it avoids the "real" responsibility associated with such pronouncements. Whether Kenwood is sincere or not remains to be seen.

That said, this is a big enough issue that I personally think anyone would be crazy to buy an Entre and a DV5900 right now, at least until there is proof that Kenwood is supporting these products, and will support these products. From my perspective, Kenwood's support has been a few bread crumbs thus far. The road to hell is paved with good intentions, and I'm sure Kenwood has had good intentions . . . (at least that's what they leak), but, despite the fact that even with its limitations it is the best changer scheme around, there is very little competition for that title, and Kenwood's track record has thus far been very poor. They're slow to acknowledge problems, they won't publicly commit to fixes or that the problems even exist, and you may be buying into a scheme which Kenwood will soon decide is not worthy of its time and money.

Kenwood is obviously a large company. But do not let that deceive you. Large corporations routinely make cost/benefit decisions on where they put their resources, and, for the near-year it's been around, all objective signs indicate that Kenwood has not been willing to devote the expense and effort to getting these problems fixed. While the benefits of the Entre and the DV5900 are significant, the problems are as well, and what I'm saying is that the track record Kenwood's shown requires you to accept on "faith" something that Kenwood has not yet demonstrated--that it will support this product.

Cedia, which is a full two months away, is when Kenwood has leaked that it will announce its multiple changer support (which was supposed to be true from the start, mind you), and I am very skeptical of that, because there is no good reason why that problem's solution has to be put so far in the future--and again, that leak came months ago. We'll see.

Bottom line is this: Entre and DV5900 have much to offer, but it also may be an endangered species, and Kenwood has done nothing to convince me that it will make the financial commitment to avoid that. Keep in mind, too, that the Faroudja processing which was supposed to be a main selling point for the DV5900 is now available all over the place, and you sure don't need to buy Sovereign to get it.

So, as I've said before, I'm looking to CEDIA, not only to see if the rumored fix for multichanger support is really made available (talk is cheap . . . especially Kenwood's method of talk), but as a barometer of whether Kenwood really has the intent to support Entre and the DVD changers.

Stay tuned.

Nick :cool:

Thanks for the quick reply and viewpoint Nick. Very well thought out response. Though I don't believe I'd ever buy more than one changer I absolutely see where you are coming from. Thats completely false advertising. I look forward to hearing what happens as well.

Does anyone else have an opinion to share on whether to buy or not?
Thanks,
Matthew

We purchased the Entre, DV-5900M, and VR-5700 for Christmas last year. Overall, we have been happy with the functionality but not with the bugs. The progressive scan (Faroudja) mode for DVD playback is not working on the DV-5900M. It stopped working a few months after we purchased it but never got around to doing something about it ("life changes" get in the way sometimes). After approaching it again this past weekend, lo and behold, the problem is still there. We have a Toshiba TW56x81 TheaterWide Projection TV. It should handle the progressive scan capability. When connecting the DVD player direct to the TV (bypassing the Entre) we still have the same problem. Even the splash screen is corrupted. It is almost like a colorized, solarized, filled with noise image. It is not like this when we switch back to regular mode. Has anyone else seen this? If so is it fixable locally? We purchased the DVD player from Crutchfield and they said to contact a Kenwood repair center. The local Kenwood Authorized repair center (in the Dallas area) said they would have to ship it since they don't mess with the Sovereign line due to lack of support from Kenwood (with knowlege base?). I don't want to have to ship this beast and be without a player for weeks on end. It is heavily used by our family and I have nightmares of our 3 year old stomping on and throwing our cd and dvd collection all over the house.

Second question: Does anyone have any Pronto remote files that they would be willing to share. We have the older B&W model but are looking to upgrade to the Pronto Pro in the future.

After a call to Crutchfield today I found out that they will not be carrying the Kenwood Sovereign line in the future. This is the same info I got from a local AV store called Tweeter. Just FYI.

Thank you!!!

Regards,

Jennifer Prince

Originally posted by princer
Second question: Does anyone have any Pronto remote files that they would be willing to share. We have the older B&W model but are looking to upgrade to the Pronto Pro in the future.

I have a CCF which incorporates the DV5900 and the Entre. It is on the Remote Central site, but it is posted in the Marantz RC9200 files (Marantz's version of the Pronto Pro).

By the way, I owned the Pronto Pro, and went to the Marantz. It costs more, but (like they say on Remote Central) if you can afford a Pronto Pro, you can afford a RC9200. It is a better remote, because of the hard buttons and the built-in joystick.

After a call to Crutchfield today I found out that they will not be carrying the Kenwood Sovereign line in the future. This is the same info I got from a local AV store called Tweeter. Just FYI.

First, check the Crutchfield warranty policy, which is on the web. It should be their problem, and they can't dodge it that easily.

As for not carrying Sovereign--Red Alert Folks--this convinces me of what I've been suspecting: Sovereign has not been a money-maker for Kenwood, and it's hard to justify financial support for an already losing venture. Crutchfield isn't going to stop selling them because they're such a hot item.

Nick :cool:

Hi Matthew:

As I mentioned before, I am very happy with my purchase. I knew when I bought it it was something that would need to be improved over time for it was software based and new. It really has changed the way I use my theater (or my entire home entertainment for that matter.)

I personally feel that Kenwood has been improving the product. Lockup's are very infrequent if any unlike when it first came out. The menu system is very, very much faster with the new software release. And even the OpenGlobe system now includes movie look-up for information for before it was only CD's. (I am referring to the OpenGlobe area.) Even the DVD look-up has improved with new "fuzzy logic". Still though, they need to improve it some more for discs that are their if you do a manual look-up are not found when it does it automatically. (This was based on 4x3 vs widescreen.) But doing the manual search I only have 4 DVD's not found.

The changer has not has any updates as of yet itself. But the Entre code is still being improved.

The biggest sticker for Nick, and some others here, is the 3 changer support. (I only have 267 DVD's loaded..but still want the feature.) The units themselves can already do this and always have been able to, but the Entre using them is the issue. Other than that...What else is left? I ask this because the other issues mentioned in regards to the Entre really now seems to be non-issues. Internet Radio works great, MP3 works very well, and the changer interface work well (thought with only one changer at this time.) They are fixing and improving the Entre software...it always has been on going. Look at the version numbers. So, I guess I see it different on the lack of support. If their were no on going support for the units...why would we keep getting new software and not just fixes, but also additions?

Some things I am still waiting for are... 1) The three second layer change on the changer. (fixable) 2) Maybe the Info Button giving you info (right now it does nothing.) 3) Multi Changer support via Entre. Other than those three...I find the system works well and I think other would also agree.

I still have hopes they will show something at CEDIA to show progress on the multi changer, as it was mentioned they should be. I have not heard anything on any new units at all and I do not use progressive scan for I use a Fru 2200 in my theater.

So with all the software updates made that both bug fix and add options...how can one say their is no continuing support for the platform?

I'll be sure to check out the Marantz and compare it with the Pronto. Also, thank you for sharing the file information. I'm on my way to Remote Central......

Jennifer...

I do not usually use the progressive mode in my setup...But when I did try it to see it...I had no issue like reported at all. Not surprised at all when you said you tried it months later and it was still their. It is a player issue and thus would not be affected by any Entre software updates I am sorry to say.

From what I know about repair centers...they are not just Kenwood repair centers. The Sovereign line is a totally different and thus not surprised that they would not have the info on the units and they have to go to Kenwood directly for repair. I also have run into this with some other manufacture in the past. Some other repair centers may have the info needed...they are not all alike.

I was going to suggest checking your cables...but you said when you go back to non-progessinve you are fine. Pondering.

The biggest sticker for Nick, and some others here, is the 3 changer support. (I only have 267 DVD's loaded..but still want the feature.) The units themselves can already do this and always have been able to, but the Entre using them is the issue.

David is correct, although I am not too happy with the recent Entre addition of discs. But I see this as a very significant issue in its own right, that if they don't come through, they owe me money back. It's that simple.

By the way, Audio Advisor is an authorized outlet for Sovereign, and continues to tout Entre's ability to control three changers. Check out the most recent issue of Audio Advisor's catalogue, which I received last week.

I'll be sure to check out the Marantz and compare it with the Pronto. Also, thank you for sharing the file information. I'm on my way to Remote Central......

It's called "The Marilyn Remote." There's a picture of her plastered on each screen (you can remove the pictures if you like . . .) You will have to download the Marantz RC9200 Touchscreen Program (almost exactly like Pronto Pro Edit), so you can open it on the Emulator and see how it looks. I think I've got all the functions there, so it's fairly complete. Also, there are "jumps" from the Entre screen to the DV5900 screen, since you really need to have both remotes to control anything.

Nick :cool:

Hi Nick...

What do you mean by... "...although I am not too happy with the recent Entre addition of discs." ?

Do you mean the duplicate name issue in the guide? Or are you saying you are not happy that more titles are able now to be found with the "Fuzzy Logic"? If you ment the duplicate issue...it should not be an issue for long as reported.

Originally posted by David Bott
Hi Nick...

Do you mean the duplicate name issue in the guide? Or are you saying you are not happy that more titles are able now to be found with the "Fuzzy Logic"? If you ment the duplicate issue...it should not be an issue for long as reported.

It is the duplication issue. Of course I'm happy that more discs are available . . . (though I'd really like to see DVD-Audio added . . . but they never said that was part of the package, although it's logical that it should be added)

As for how long it will be an issue . . . well, I remember our discussions back in October, David, when the 3 changers were going to be resolved in 90 days. Remember that from Kenwood?

However . . . the duplication issue is not really a functional problem. Even though I've got four Gosford Parks, I just choose one of them to watch, and it plays. I'm not holding them to the forty eight hours they said.

Nick :cool:

Yes....I remember hearing that from Kenwood support also. Thus I see your point now. :)

There's a large section on eBay devoted to selling DVDs. I know, for when it was my goal to keep all of my discs on my Entre screen, I'd sell off a bunch (purge, really), and my second changer remained in hibernation.

As an incentive to Kenwood, we should take our Entre Menus literally. Thus, my Entre Screen says I have 4 Gosford Park DVDs, well, that means I've got three to sell!!!

So, for each duplicate, we should put them up on eBay, and, after the bids are in, and we get the money for the extra discs we had, it's Kenwood's responsibility to provide those discs to the buyers, because, after all, it was Kenwood that created the extra discs in the first place!!!

Think Kenwood will go for it? If they do, I want more duplicates now!!!


Nick :cool:

Now Nick...that was a totally useless post even for you. :)

48 hours has come and gone, maybe they meant 48 business hours, which is really scary since Kenwood's definition of 90 days is about seven to twelve months, which means 48 hours could be several months by Kenwood's reckoning. I do like the fact that I have over 650 DVD's in a 400 DVD changer, boy did I get my monies worth. What I don't understand is why with all the out of work computer geeks, hackers and programmers, why hasn't anyone hacked the entre, rewrote the programming and developed hardware to do what we all want - 3 changer control, look-up that works, menu's that only show 1 disc per slot, 3 second layer change delay eliminated and all those other problems reported in the last 700 posts. Speaking of lockups, mine just locked up after attempting to manually input the names of the "unknown DVD's".

Oh by the way, would I buy these puppies again, maybe...Since if I had bought stock with the money, it would be worthless now, at least the Kenwood's make great boat anchors (ok maybe not that bad).

I suspect that the Kenwood Entre will soon be gone, because its just too easy to provide a command set and a computer control program to duplicate much of the functionality. Some of this has been done via scripts and DVDLobby.

They may actually become coveted collector items because they are programmable (although the serial codes are not well-documented.)

zinja...

You may be able to rewrite the code for the Entre...however you surely can not do anything with the eprom in the changer which would need to be done for the 3 second layer and the 3 changer via Entre.

Boat anchor? Come on. BTW...you are using it right? At this point it has been improved and is continuing to do so right? (you you have dups...it will be fixed, this I know.) And yes...I would guess business hours.

Ken...

I do not seeing it going away because of what you mention. In order to do what you are referring to, requires a person to want to use a computer to do it and take the time to set it all up. The nice thing about the Entre is the integration to the system. Lets see computers can also play back DVD's and in a lot of cases, better than most DVD players...but yet you do not see those stopping to be made. The Entre is a convenience piece and I for one believe a very nice one. I would not change at this point back to a normal changer or even consider a PC.



I say again that I find nothing at this point to me that makes the system not usable and we do see it still being developed and thus supported. What is missing at this point? 3 second layer change and the three changer support are the only once that seem to be mentioned now.

Originally posted by David Bott
Ken...

I do not seeing it going away because of what you mention. In order to do what you are referring to, requires a person to want to use a computer to do it and take the time to set it all up. The nice thing about the Entre is the integration to the system. Lets see computers can also play back DVD's and in a lot of cases, better than most DVD players...but yet you do not see those stopping to be made. The Entre is a convenience piece and I for one believe a very nice one. I would not change at this point back to a normal changer or even consider a PC.


I wasn't very clear.
My point was that the product line is due for an upgrade and that times have changed since the Entre was introduced. If Crutchfield drops Kenwood Sovereign, that's a bad sign for the line. I've seen indications that Good Guys is phasing it out also.

I'm hoping that they don't phase it out, (I just bought a 5050M) but really won't believe that they won't phase it out until I see some new fall models. But, what if they do and what if they don't phase out the line?

If they do, its time to get some equipment from eBay.

If they don't, the 5900M and 5050M will likely be updated to be tolerant of more formats and with a new interface. The Entre is a convenience piece but is probably expensive to develop and maintain. It might be time for Entre2, if it exists. Alternatively, I could see them improving the interface of the 5900M to decrease the need for the Entre and doing away with the Entre and replacing it with a software suite.

This might not be good for the convenience of the consumer, but would be driven by cost issues that Kenwood is facing. Such is the nature of the consumer electronics industry.

I admit much of this speculative, but its brought on by the reduced visibility of changers in the marketplace.

I have not seen or heard anything on any new line from Kenwood to would replace the units. Software changes and updates yes...but no new hardware at all have I seen or heard about.

Originally posted by kelliot


I wasn't very clear.
My point was that the product line is due for an upgrade and that times have changed since the Entre was introduced. If Crutchfield drops Kenwood Sovereign, that's a bad sign for the line. I've seen indications that Good Guys is phasing it out also.

Agreed. I'd like to get something more definitive than a few rumors on this point, however. Then, I'd like to hear the precise reasons they are being dropped. Then we would have the information sufficient to make anything more than a guess.

If they don't, the 5900M and 5050M will likely be updated to be tolerant of more formats and with a new interface. The Entre is a convenience piece but is probably expensive to develop and maintain. It might be time for Entre2, if it exists. Alternatively, I could see them improving the interface of the 5900M to decrease the need for the Entre and doing away with the Entre and replacing it with a software suite.

Disagreed. What more "formats" are you referring to? It does everything except play SACD, (the DV-5900 that is . . .. I know the 5050 won't play DVD-A, but that's a deliberate set-apart from the big brother) and lots of manufacturers are staking positions in the alleged "format wars" by declaring support for either DVD-A or SACD, and not including the other. Only Pioneer, to my knowledge, has a player that does all . . . but the hardware is so cheap in either format that you can, for $200 or $300, purchase a separate DVD-A or multichannel SACD unit, and have peace in your home theater . . . no format wars. Think Swiss.

I admit much of this speculative, but its brought on by the reduced visibility of changers in the marketplace.

No speculation, no AVS Forum. But this is a troubling phenomenon to me, too. The problem is that Kenwood, for all its faults, has upped the ante so significantly for what we look for in a changer, that it's going to take something Kenwood-like to get me excited. The Entre is really a seriously cool product--although it could well be discontinued in months, based on my "speculation"--and the addition of internet connectivity into your theater is something you will miss far more when it's gone. I just don't "see" anyone else entering the breach, which is why I don't want it to happen.

Look at it like this: I've got an Entre, a DV5900, and a DV5050M (and I would have had a second by now, if the multichanger support were there). How excited do you think I get when I hear that Sony is about to introduce a "new" progressive scan changer, which is only going to be their same old model, with a progressive scan chip. I don't even use the progressive scan chip on either player.

If Entre and Sovereign hang around, one thing that they must do by way of upgrade (in conjunction with OpenGlobe, I guess) is make DVD-A cover art and information readable and available. I see the day when my DV5900 will only have DVD-A discs in it, and my DVDs will be in the pair of 5050s. Even if this wasn't specifically "promised" when it came out, there is a realistic expectation by the consumer that whatever disc the DV5900 would play, the Entre would download information and art. This can't be a hard thing to add, and, given the relatively minimal number of DVD-A discs available, KENWOOD COULD CONVINCE A LOT OF US THAT IT WILL SUPPORT SOVEREIGN BY ADDING DVD-A INFO AND COVER ART AS THINGS THAT ENTRE WILL IDENTIFY (hint, Kenwood, hint).

CEDIA is the date the coach turns into a pumpkin. If multichanger support is not available by then, well, Kenwood should address a compensation program for all who purchased one of the changers, or the Entre, because they marketed it on expansion capabilities that were supposed to be there, and what you paid for. Even if you only bought one changer, you were buying an "option" on future expansion which never got delivered.

On the other hand, if Kenwood is true to its word, I will be the first to defend it on every front, for what is still a forward-looking, innovative product, that, quite frankly, no one else delivered.

Nick :cool:

What would you all think about making a purchase on some or all of the Sovereign line now? I've been toying with the idea of selling some of my current stuff, and getting the VR-5900 and Entre, to go along with my 5050M.

Is Kenwood likely to announce a new receiver at CEDIA? And how does the VR-5900 perform? I currently have a Lexicon MC-1 and Rotel RB985 amp, previously I used a B&K AVR-202. Obviously I dont want to go down in quality, but I think from reading the 38+ pages on this thread that most of you are happy with the VR-5900? Also, to get full functionality out of the Entre, is the VR-59000 needed? Or should I just get the Entre and add it to my Lexicon or even B&K?

Thanks for any suggestions, as after reading this whole thread 2 times, I am even more unsure of what I should do!:confused:

Kirby

Nick...Just one point to clarify...

"KENWOOD COULD CONVINCE A LOT OF US THAT IT WILL SUPPORT SOVEREIGN BY ADDING DVD-A INFO AND COVER ART AS THINGS THAT ENTRE WILL IDENTIFY (hint, Kenwood, hint). "

This would not be a Kenwood issue, but an OpenGlode issue. OpenGlode is the partner that does the databases. It also does it for Escent and I do not think Escent even has the option for the data is not their. So, Kenwood can not give what it does not own or control. OpenGlode is the content provider. If their data is their, which I do not think it is, then it comes down to the contract between the two. All in all it would come down to cost either way, but it would fall on OpenGlobe to provide the data.

My thought on it.

Kirby...

You can always add the VR-59000 later if yuo want. I have it and it of course works very when then Entre controls it. But you surely do not need it. I went from a Lex MC-1, to a Denon 5800, to the VR-5900. I am happy with the performance in my dedicated theater.

Originally posted by David Bott
Nick...Just one point to clarify...

"KENWOOD COULD CONVINCE A LOT OF US THAT IT WILL SUPPORT SOVEREIGN BY ADDING DVD-A INFO AND COVER ART AS THINGS THAT ENTRE WILL IDENTIFY (hint, Kenwood, hint). "

This would not be a Kenwood issue, but an OpenGlobe issue. OpenGlode is the partner that does the databases. It also does it for Escent and I do not think Escent even has the option for the data is not their. So, Kenwood can not give what it does not own or control. OpenGlobe is the content provider. If their data is their, which I do not think it is, then it comes down to the contract between the two. All in all it would come down to cost either way, but it would fall on OpenGlobe to provide the data.

My thought on it.

Well, sort of . . . go to the OpenGlobe website and you'll see a list of its "Partners" (Escient, Kenwood, etc.). While OpenGlobe is certainly the content provider, Kenwood can and should do all it can to encourage OpenGlobe to provide this information, in the same way that it would encourage OpenGlobe to stay current with DVD releases.

I spoke with OpenGlobe once on this issue, and the fellow that I talked to made it out as if it were no big deal, and that's possible . . . but that no real thought had been given to it. You could tell he was putting it in a sort of mental suggestion box, but Heaven knows whether it got written down.

My point is that Kenwood can and should be an advocate for this, particularly since it's selling the DV5900 which it markets as being DVD-A capable, and to be controlled by Entre, and supplemented by Entre. It's true, nowhere in the Kenwood literature does it say "cover art for DVD-A discs will be included," but nowhere does it say, "by the way, in case you plan on using this as a changer primarily for DVD-A discs, you won't get cover art."

In the short time I've been collecting DVD-A discs, I've accumulated 40. That's 10% of the DV5900, and that number will probably one day approach 100%.

Are we Kenwood's customers? Is OpenGlobe and Entre supposed to be interactive and upgradeable? This is not an unreasonable expectation under the circumstances, and I would be extremely disappointed if Kenwood's response were that, sorry, that's OpenGlobe's problem, and if you don't like it, tough. My response back would be: Why didn't you tell me that even though the Entre controlled the DV5900, it didn't do for DVD-A discs what it does for DVD discs?

I'm not accusing Kenwood of being duplicitous, but I for one was surprised after I bought the Entre and the DV5900 that the information on DVD-A discs was not available. Hell, I get all kinds of information from CDDJ on cd discs--cover art, lyrics, disc tracks--for use with a Nirvis controller of my Sony CD changers, and it doesn't cost a thing. I'm betting that with little investment, or little prodding of OpenGlobe, some information can be provided that some people really did expect when they bought Entre.

Nick :cool: