If you know the 5900 RS-232C serial commands please send them to me as well by PM or by email.

just to confirm, David was right. you can't hook up a usb to wireless adapter to the entre. it doesn't recognize it and you can't load usb drivers into the entre. just ordered the dlink hpna bridge. seems more elegant solution than net mate to wireless access point to maybe another wireless access point.

Hey all Does anyone know how to eliminate CD info downloaded from Gracenote(If you no longer wanted that cd in your collection??) and also does anyone know how I connect my PC to the Entre' and will it help with anything but managing MP3.......and lastly does anyone know when DVD audio support is coming??

Ok, got a question regarding DVD coverart. I had put in a DVD and it was identified and all went well. Problem is that it was a Pan&Scan DVD, which was meant to be for someone else, so I swapped the disc for the widescreen version. Same slot. Problem now is the coverart still shows the PS coverart (yes they are different just barely) and I cant get it to get the proper cover. What I am to do? Is there a way to get it changed?

Thanks.

I am pulling the trigger and getting the VR5900, the Entre, and the DV5900. It will be joined with a Xantech multi-room/multi-source, PS2, and a Mitsubishi 73909. Any feedback or strong cautions against the Sovereign line? You all told me 2 months ago that although it has it's bugs, it is still a great system and the best of it's kind out there. Thanks.

Originally posted by Kirby Baker
Ok, got a question regarding DVD coverart. I had put in a DVD and it was identified and all went well. Problem is that it was a Pan&Scan DVD, which was meant to be for someone else, so I swapped the disc for the widescreen version. Same slot. Problem now is the coverart still shows the PS coverart (yes they are different just barely) and I cant get it to get the proper cover. What I am to do? Is there a way to get it changed?

Thanks.

I'd be surprised if you can. I've seen a few DVDs out there with more than one version of cover art, but, as I recall, the reason that a lot of us early adopters couldn't get cover art for certain discs is that it was only available on pan & scan versions, and something about the lookup procedure wouldn't pull those covers for us.

Now that those covers are getting pulled up, I don't know that this means that more than one version of cover art is available for a given DVD. Quite frankly, if you've got the right movie for the right disc, that would satisfy me as far as cover art goes, because you will wind up making a few compromises here and there. One of my initial compromises was having to live with the animated title cover art for discs like Pink Panther and Last of the Mohicans. Those things got cured eventually, but there are still some mismatches. This one I wouldn't worry too much about.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I guess you were right. I guess it was my greedy side getting the best of me. I will just try and ignore the "Fullscreen" at the bottom of the cover art! :)

Originally posted by kelliot
If you know the 5900 RS-232C serial commands please send them to me as well by PM or by email.

check out ...

http://juken.sourceforge.net/protocol/

DVD (and CD) changer RS-232 protocol documented there.

Rob

Ok, this got buried in all the Entre discussion, but does anyone have any information on the 5900M firmware upgrade? The summer is fading fast...

Originally posted by crbaldwin
Several posts/pages back it was mentioned that a firmware upgrade for the 5900M would be supplied this "summer" that would address the layer-change issue and hopefully other issues. What ever became of this?

You know I don't recall ever seeing a layer change that wasn't less than a second with any of the three 5900Ms I've had.

Do you have any specific examples of disks that take excessive time?

I'd like to see if there is a difference between players - possibly by serial # batches.

If you know the layer change time please include in your response along with your serial #. Mine is 20400204 (replaced 10801024 & 10801011).

when this thread started i think tomb raider was mentioned a lot with a long layer change.

Armageddon has about a 2-3 second pause right as it changes from Chapter 13 to 14. Someone said Harry Potter had a huge delay at the end of the Troll scene. I borrowed it from a friend to see, but it was only a 1/10th of a second at most on mine. I didn't even see it at first. Nothing noticeable on Star Wars Episode 1 or The Matrix that I have seen.

DV-5900M #1110xxxx

Bob

the easiest way to find a particular post is to do a search on this forum and then choose the "Post" option. That will show you each post that has your search criteria.

Re: Finding a previous post
The previous suggestion of using the option at the top of "Thread ---> Show Printable Version" and then clicking on the top right "Show all xxxx posts from this thread on one page" seems pretty good. Then user Cntl+F to bring up your IE find dialog box or equiv.

Re: Are you edgy playing with the Entre while your expensive CRT/LCD bulb(s) count down the hours?
For less then $100 you can get a 13" TV w/video-input to put next to your Entre and play with the Entre showing the menu on the 13" TV. Just leave your CRT/LCD off and hook up the Entre composite output to your little TV. As David B pointed out to me the Entre sends video out to all places at once. For me this made a big difference in playing with more features of the Entre. Also don't forget to do the Setup | Audio & Video Settings | Screen Centering to help with losing letters/etc on the left screen border due to over scanning.

Re: Creating playlist via the web interface
Anyone else using the web interface ?

In order to do this you need to do a:
1) Setup | Utilities | Websync
2) Setup | User Info | Remote Admin (copy down LoginID and password).
3) Go to http://www.openglobe.net/kenwood and enter LoginID/PW.

Kenwood folks, please notice that Genre info is missing.

that looks pretty cool. hope they keep enhancing it. i think that is the preferred way of managing network devices.

MAYBE I JUST HAVENT READ ENOUGH, BUT I'M TRYING TO MOVE THE MP3 FROM A PLAYLIST SOTRED ON THE ENTE TO MY COMPUTER. I THEN WANT MOVE THE MP3 TO AN IPOD. I'VE RIPPED THE TRACKS TO THE ENTRE AND HAVE A PLAY LIST, BUT JUST CAN'T FIGURE OUT THE TRASFER TO THE COMPUTER.

THANKS,

Please do not TYPE ALL IN CAPS...I thought you were YELLING. Thanks. :)

Originally posted by ScottF200

Re: Creating playlist via the web interface
Anyone else using the web interface ?

In order to do this you need to do a:
1) Setup | Utilities | Websync
2) Setup | User Info | Remote Admin (copy down LoginID and password).
3) Go to http://www.openglobe.net/kenwood and enter LoginID/PW.

[b]Kenwood folks, please notice that Genre info is missing.

Scott:

After I got my Entre, I sort of tuned out to the Entre downloads (like netnamer and the Media Manager (is that the right name?)) despite downloading it. I did notice that, when I had recorded some stuff to the HD, it would appear on the Openglobe site after I'd entered my password.

Is it now true that you can upload a DVD playlist on the web interface, re DVD titles? Or is this for just music?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Nick, last time I tried this a few weeks ago it was only for music titles. The same goes for the MediaManager. The ability to edit and manage DVD titles outside of the Entre is a big waekness in my book. From what I can see there has not been much enhancement of the MediaManager nor the web interface since the launch of these applications about a year ago. I suspect there is not even a part time dedicated person responsible for these applications, so I suspect we will never see these long awaited features to be added by Kenwood. The best bet is probably a third party software to be developed by a skilled software engineer outside of Kenwood.

I remain very hopeful that Kenwood will make good on the multichanger support. In fact, I remain so hopeful that I began to shop around for another DV-5050M (or even a DV-5900), which would give me three changers. It's as much about wanting to get everything set up as it is about filling discs, though I'm probably close to 100 discs into my 2d changer already, without any realistic way of accessing them, since I haven't been entering them manually.

So now that CEDIA is around the corner . . .Jeff . . . . is there anything close to an official word that this will even be addressed there? Maybe you won't have the apparatus for the fix ready . . . but maybe you can confirm that the subject will be discussed?

Forget about all other issues for the moment. Any word that multichanger support will at least be mentioned. Still says "coming soon" on the website, but, of course, it said it was already there when many of us purchased it. I'm not going to CEDIA, and there's nothing on the CEDIA website which is at all helpful.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Hi everyone-
Sorry for the delay in posting.
Haven't heard any word (official or otherwise) about what's happening at CEDIA. We will be keeping a hospitality suite a couple blocks from the convention center, but won't be one the show floor. Check the CEDIA daily for details and location info.
I'm in the process of completing IR capture for a pretty comprehensive Entre/DV5900 .ccf file, and should have it available in the next 24 hours. PM me if you'd like a copy. As for RS232 control strings, I don't have a complete listing at this time, but as I've seen on the forum, a couple folks out there do...I understand they are extremely important to many of you, and am doing my best to communicate this to the folks "upstream" so that we can get a list out.
re: layer cahnges, I've noticed a significant gap on several 2 layer releases, but never more than 1-2 seconds. I've heard the firmware upgrade rumours too, but have not been filled in as to their veracity of availablilty. (My personal changer hasn't seen it yet)
That's all for now, I'll re-post shortly after I get through the rest of the thread backlog :)
Cheers
Jeff

amarigot-
Due to some content protection issues, you cannot transfer content from Entre back out to a PC on the same network. It's like the old "roach motel" ads...MP3s check in, but they don't check out. The only exceptions are
1) MP3 compilation CDs can be burned
2) Rio 600, Compaq iPAQ portables can be connected to the USB port
and content can be transferred from Entre directly to that device.
I have a similar problem at home, where I'm using the Kenwood Music Keg removable hard disc player in my car, and Entre/Axcess around the house. I use the Music Keg management software (built by our friends at Phatnoise, www.phatnoise.com ) to manage local copies of all my MP3s, and them import my favorites into Entre Media Manager and transfer content into my Entre that way. This works great for me, as I keep a local copy on my Hard Disc, a copy on Entre of favorites, and a copy on Music Keg for the car (all sourced from the same original hard disc copy). Some people might find this a little cumbersome, but it works well. Besides, a product like Entre is seen by the RIAA as a consumer audio component, not a Multi-Purpose device (like a PC or HDD) and as a result has to follow different rules re: content distribution...
Take care
Jeff

Derek FSU-
Pull that trigger! We've got plenty of ammunition! Seriously though, the system works, and outside of some small bugs here and there at the power user level, should be a great match for the system you describe. Thanks for your support
Jeff
ps Ok, so layer change delays are an "all user" issue, but we're working on that one :)

Originally posted by JD-NH
Hi everyone-
Sorry for the delay in posting.
Haven't heard any word (official or otherwise) about what's happening at CEDIA. We will be keeping a hospitality suite a couple blocks from the convention center, but won't be one the show floor. Check the CEDIA daily for details and location info.


I guess I'm a little confused, now. In other words, Kenwood will not have any presentation of any kind at CEDIA?

Perhaps I'm wrong, but if I was expecting an announcement of some kind from Kenwood at CEDIA, I think what you're saying is to forget about it, because Kenwood won't be on the show floor.

Am I reading this incorrectly, Jeff?

Nick :cool:

Nick-
We will absolutely be at the show, we're just going to be offsite at a smaller venue...I'm told it's about 5 minutes walk from the convention center. I'm not sure exactly what the folks in Long Beach have planned for said venue, but if past experience is any indicator, it should be interesting!
See you there
Jeff

Originally posted by JD-NH
Nick-
We will absolutely be at the show, we're just going to be offsite at a smaller venue...I'm told it's about 5 minutes walk from the convention center. I'm not sure exactly what the folks in Long Beach have planned for said venue, but if past experience is any indicator, it should be interesting!
See you there
Jeff

Let's put it like this, Jeff . . . if you were me, would you be looking to add a third changer at this time?

P.S. I know it's up to me. I said if you were me.

Nick :cool:

this is the $64,000 question. i would immediately purchase a second changer and could bet on at least 3 other people getting their second and third changer if they could all be linked to the entre. i will be at cedia and i will visit the kenwood venue. i'll keep my fingers crossed.

When is CEDIA?

CEDIA is at the end of this month. This is the event that we have heard for months will unveil the "fix" to multi-changer support. I'm very hopeful that it is.

Wish I could go, but I just took a discretionary trip to LV, and my brains got beaten in. Should have waited for the calmer environs of Minneapolis, where there aren't any casinos.

Nick :cool:

when i put the 5080 remote into RF mode, the DV5900 remote can no longer control the DV5900. i must be doing something wrong. thanks

never mind. i'm brain dead. got it figured out. thx

Originally posted by princer
Thanks for the info everyone. I am relieved to hear the Pronto does in fact work with the Kenwood Sovereign components (Entre, DV5900, etc). We were a bit concerned when the Pronto would fail to learn codes directly from the Entre's remote. The CCF for the Entre on the Remote Central site looks great! BTW, how did you create the buttons/graphics for the CCF?

Now I have something to tinker with for a few hours...days, etc.

Have a great weekend!!

Roger Prince
princer7@attbi.com

I recalled this post from a few weeks back, as I noticed that I had a more advanced ProntoPro CCF on my computer at work, with the whole works for the Entre and DV-5900. I'm sending it to you via email.

Nick :cool:

Speaking about controlling your Kenwood changers with a Pronto. Lyndel McGee is working on a version of SuperNudelist which will support the Kenwood disc selection scheme. Check it out on RemoteCentral.

http://www.remotecentral.com/cgi-bin/mboard/rc-pronto/thread.cgi?20480

Tom

it would be nice when the day comes that we can export our dvd info from the entre to xml or some other format that a program like supernudelist can import.

one thing that keeps me from using dvdprofiler is the daunting task of entering almost 400 upc codes for the lookup. but then again, i guess you only have to do it once and from there on it should not take so much time.

i have the entre up and running but only through svideo right now. I also need to marry it into my universal remote. i am refraining from giving an opinion until I have it all hooked up through component and have it integrated into my universal remote. that hpna ethernet bridge is one nice product.

on a side note i threw a bday party this past weekend and used musicmatch's internet radio to provide the music. worked out really well. it has a function were you select the stations you want and you can set the level for that station in terms of percentages. So you can say play 10 percent of this, 20 percent of that, 90 percent of that, and it will mix the music category wise for you. much easier than creating playlists from your own collection. give it a try. i really liked it. Played for hours at cd quality with no hiccups. Broadband connection.

Slocko

"one thing that keeps me from using dvdprofiler is the daunting task of entering almost 400 upc codes for the lookup. but then again, i guess you only have to do it once and from there on it should not take so much time. "

Several years ago I obtained the Cat Optical Reader free from Radio Shack. Downloaded a program that disabled the Cat from gathering info to send to the company. It is now just a bar code reader and it really works well. 635 DVD's and I NEVER have manually entered any data or names. Digital Convergence.com made the cat and is like many dot coms - gone the way of the dodo bird. But maybe you can find someone out there willing to let their cat go (don't bother to ask, I love my cat). Or invest in a more expensive bar code reader. It would be worth the investment not to spend months entering data.

that's a very good idea. i never thought of a bar code reader. hmmmmmmmmm

Yes, I know there's no access on Openglobe to information concerning DVD-Audio discs. No, I don't want to rant that Kenwood said it would be there, and it's not.

What I'm still dealing with, however, is the distinguishing capabilities of the Entre, particularly since the otherwise-helpful software upgrade.

When Entre reads the disc in your changer (in this case it would be only the DV-5900), it discerns--or used to--between whether the disc is a "dvd," or a "dvd-audio" (maybe it does the same things for CDs, but I've never loaded CDs in it).

There is a category bar at the top of the Entre menu. From left to right, it reads "All . . .Action . . . Adventure," etc. When a rented movie is loaded, a bar appears for it. And, in the same way, once you start loading DVD-Audio discs, a bar appears for identification of "DVD Audio." It is actually a well-planned design feature, because it permits you to shift to the items under that bar, and examine all that pertain to the description--in other words, a list of all DVD-Audio discs.

Problem is, since the software upgrade, Entre is hit-and-miss with identification. If you would look at my DVD-Audio List, according to Entre, I have 32 of them. However, there are actually 48 of them. The other 16 just get inappropriately identified as a normal DVD.

For what it's worth, here's my current "collection" courtesy of DVD Profiler. I don't know how to substitute the link as others do with "MY DVD Profiler" or some such thing. I'd love to see Entre offer all that DVD Profiler does (I've improvised on the DVD-A entries, since DVD Profiler only offers scarce support for DVD-A as well). By the way, some of my improvising involves just getting an image that has the same name, and then editing it to reflect that it's a DVD-A. For example, there's a DVD-A collection called Women on Top which features female vocalists. The disc in DVD Profiler is now a cover disc from a Blondie album (who happens to be one of the vocalists on the DVD-A)

Actually, I said the hell with the bar codes and just typed in the titles. So when something like Harry Potter appears as a 4:3 disc, I correct it when I notice it. I just need it for keeping track of what disc is in what slot, since Entre is not reliable for DVD-A, and, of course, only goes up to 400 discs (CEDIA is only weeks away . . .)

http://www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=cavsitrmb

Nick :cool:

I keep getting DNS errors on my ethernet connection. I can no longer get connected to openglobe. I have reset the entre by holding down the power switch. Does any one know if OG is down or is it a local problem. My computers can connect and all of the entre's cabling is ok. Any suggestions? Thanks

I've made some interesting discoveries this weekend with regard to the issue of Entre and DVD-A titles.

First, there is some cover art and DVD-Audio information on OpenGlobe. I suspect that most of it is there accidentally (such as when a DVD-A disc is released that had a prior DVD-Video existence). But not entirely.

Here are the DVD-A discs that I found on OpenGlobe, without regard to "why" they were there, or what the "explanation" was:

1. Deep Purple Machine Head
2. Fleetwood Mac Rumours
3. Pat Metheny Imaginary Day
4. Steely Dan Two Against Nature
5. Big Phat Band Swinging For The Fences
6. Foreigner
7. Fourplay

Of the above, I could find no corresponding DVD-Video for 1, 5, 6, and 7. In other words, the only thing out--ever, to the best of my knowledge--on these discs was a DVD-A release.

None of them will be looked up by the system. You have to enter the title yourself, and that will pull up the cover art and the information.

Interestingly, too, DVD Profiler is beginning to have DVD-A discs appear, and these can be no coincidence, since these appear when you enter the bar code on the back of the DVD-A disc. The ones I have found in DVD Profiler are:

1. America Homecoming
2. Eagles Hotel California
3. Randy Newman Little Criminals
4. Grover Washington, Jr. Winelight
5. The Doobie Brothers, The Captain And Me
6. Beethoven Symphonies 4 & 5, Daniel Barenboim
7. Grateful Dead, Workingman's Dead
8. Neil Young, Road Rock
9. Natalie Merchant Tigerlily

And now a question . . . for the computer and graphic savvy among you. I want to be able to scan DVD cover art images (especially those from DVD-A) and start contributing that info to DVD Profiler. Does anyone know--what type of scanner I would need, what graphic software, etc? I'm reasonably certain it's not terribly complex or expensive, as it's being done by thousands worldwide, but I haven't the foggiest of where to begin.

Ultimately, if OpenGlobe ever ties into the DVD Profiler data base, or if it permits the type of contributions permitted by DVD Profiler, Entre will be a hugely better product. I'd be interested in finding out how I can start my scanning . . . takers?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

maybe these posts will help you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1281976&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

They suggest unplugging the entre for 10 seconds so it can seek another address.

Originally posted by RShlansky
I keep getting DNS errors on my ethernet connection. I can no longer get connected to openglobe. I have reset the entre by holding down the power switch. Does any one know if OG is down or is it a local problem. My computers can connect and all of the entre's cabling is ok. Any suggestions? Thanks

my entre is almost setup. one thing puzzling me, how come i don't see movie descriptions in the info pane? in the user guide it clearly shows movie descriptions in one of the sample pages. if i edit the disc i can see the movie description is there. on the main screen however all i see is year, genre, disc slot, and some other miscellanous info. on the far right i see the word "text" but i haven't found a way to get to it to see if that is an option i can select.

eagerly awaiting a response.

also, do you need to use rca connections to listen to internet radio? right now i just have a coax connection from the digital out of the entre to my receiver and i am not hearing anything coming through when i play an internet radio station.

thxs.

Originally posted by slocko
my entre is almost setup. one thing puzzling me, how come i don't see movie descriptions in the info pane? in the user guide it clearly shows movie descriptions in one of the sample pages. if i edit the disc i can see the movie description is there. on the main screen however all i see is year, genre, disc slot, and some other miscellanous info. on the far right i see the word "text" but i haven't found a way to get to it to see if that is an option i can select.

I think it's disc-dependent. Some movies come packed with an overflow of information. Others have little more than the title.

also, do you need to use rca connections to listen to internet radio? right now i just have a coax connection from the digital out of the entre to my receiver and i am not hearing anything coming through when i play an internet radio station.

thxs.

I think you're only going to get sound from the analog outputs. I'd have to re-read the Entre handbook, but that's my recollection.

Nick :cool:

But that doesn't make sense. If I edit the disc, the movie description is there filled in. I would like to see that info on the screen. None of my movies have any descriptions. Can you give me some examples of moves that you have that you can see descriptions on the main screen and I will check to see if I have them.


Originally posted by Nicholas


I think it's disc-dependent. Some movies come packed with an overflow of information. Others have little more than the title.

[b]

I think you're only going to get sound from the analog outputs. I'd have to re-read the Entre handbook, but that's my recollection.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by slocko
But that doesn't make sense. If I edit the disc, the movie description is there filled in. I would like to see that info on the screen. None of my movies have any descriptions. Can you give me some examples of moves that you have that you can see descriptions on the main screen and I will check to see if I have them.




Yes. You don't need the disc.

Today, I tried to see if cover art and disc information was available for a relatively new release (tho older movie) named "My Favorite Year." It's still not there.

However, playing round with it, I tried an edit disc, and just typed in the words My Favorite . . .then I had Entre look that up.

What turned up was not "My Favorite Year," but an older movie with Bob Hope called "My Favorite Blonde." In the information section was all kinds of information garbage.

Now, let's assume I actually owned "My Favorite Blonde," and entered it in my changer. When Entre looked it up, it would produce all that information (and I'd have to read it again). So, unless we're talking about two different things, that's the information available from Entre for that disc.

For other discs, I'm lucky if I just get the cover art.

If that's what you mean, then look up My Favorite Blonde, and you'll learn more about it than you want to know.

Nick :cool:

i don't think we are communicating :)

the entre found the disc with no problems and in the guide i can see information about the movie like year, genre, rating, etc. that is all i can see for that movie on the guide.

if i hit options and select edit disc, i am given the chance to manually edit all the fields in the guide, but in addition to, there is a decription field with a summary of what the movie is about. this field does not appear in my
guide but is there all filled out with the correct information. it's just not displaying in the guide.

if you go to page 15 of the user guide of the entre, you see the movie description that i am talking about. of course you don't see the other fields i am currently seeing, but i prefer that field over the others.

i have about 40 unknown discs. i did a range lookup and it found them all. but the guide doesn't update with the new info. if i do a lookup for the disc via disc edit from options, it says unknown.

I decided to do a reset of the entre and I think it died. The standby light is just blinking and blinking. If I hold it to do a reset I can hear the hard drive clicking. That is always a bad sign.

I'm going to unplug it and wait 30 minutes. Figures that would be my luck.

okay it came back. phew!!!!

I found the problem with the unknowns. The unknowns are duplicates of dvds it didn't find the first time, but found with the range lookup. That is why movie info in options is showing me more discs than I have.

i am going to search this thread for the dup issue, but if someone wants to post the solution in getting rid of them, let me know.

thxs.

it's great conversing with one's self.

found the back door option and I am rebuilding the index. keep my fingers crossed.

Originally posted by slocko
maybe these posts will help you:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/search.php?s=&action=showresults&searchid=1281976&sortby=lastpost&sortorder=descending

They suggest unplugging the entre for 10 seconds so it can seek another address.



The search provided pointed at one of my earlier post on my DNS issues. What I did to "resolve" it is posted on Page 28 "08-09-02 07:16 PM". HTH

Originally posted by slocko
my entre is almost setup. one thing puzzling me, how come i don't see movie descriptions in the info pane? in the user guide it clearly shows movie descriptions in one of the sample pages. if i edit the disc i can see the movie description is there. on the main screen however all i see is year, genre, disc slot, and some other miscellanous info. on the far right i see the word "text" but i haven't found a way to get to it to see if that is an option i can select.

Hmm...as far as I recall the INFO button is only for finger exercise <grin / frown>. I and others have brought this up on several occasions. As far as I know Kenwood doesn't have an answer.

one of David Botts post on it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1057058&highlight=info+button+movie#post1057058) (Nick, when formating a message click on the "http : //" 'button next to the vBCode text')

The screen with the description of the movie does show up in the manual, it does show up on screen snap shot images that where on Crutchfield's site and it did show up in the recent article in Audio Video Interiors (Sept? - correction Nov 02 - pg 88).

Perhaps I missed it and it does show something up somehow.

JD-NH, can you acknowledge what the INFO button does or was supposed to do while displaying a) DVDs, b) i-radio and c) music ? Can this be added to the Kenwood FAQ?

I could actually envision that OpenGlobe doesn't want it to do anything and they want you to go to their website (OG button) access to look it up? I wonder how'd you scroll thru the desc text if it was brought up in the upper pane. My guess is you can't/couldn't...seems like that screen layout is pretty much in stone.

I have seen/used the OG area and "clicked" on the "now playing" button while listening to music. This is somewhat cool actually because you get various details about the singers/band. Hmmm...what if the INFO button just automatically took you to the same place the "now playing" takes you?!? That'd be kinda of cool me thinks.

Creating a playlist via the web interface

All, in this post (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95150&perpage=30&pagenumber=34#post1326731) I listed how to do the 'websync' and allow you to create playlist via the web interface.

No one that I recall actually stated they have used/tried it. It is kinda painfully slow (not an connection speed issue it doesn't see but their interface) but did seem to work. You can even highlight several songs at once by holding down the SHIFT key while making you second click (normal Windows type of thing).

I have been ripping CDs for a week or so ... about 6 or 7 every night. This is working better than when I first tried it. (seems like they delay their compression until you shut it off now (?) (recall the 2 blinking lights when you turn it off).

I have about 50 CDs ripped. I can no long do the websync. It stops when it gets to "rebuilding library index" or close to that message. I tried it a few different times and even of the period of a couple days.

Can any of you try this if you have various CDs ripped to see if it is working? ... please

P.S. I did have one strange thing happen while ripping, I should mention. I successfully ripped Garth Brook's Seven CD but it would never show up in my MP3 list. It always 'pretended to rip it'. I would think their was a conspiracy at OG against Garth but various other of his CDs are fine. Hey don't "rip" me on listening to Garth <grin>

In the user guide it says the info button is for displaying track time for the currently playing disc.

I wonder why kenwood took out the movie description field from the main guide. that is the most important field!!!!!

Originally posted by ScottF200


Hmm...as far as I recall the INFO button is only for finger exercise <grin / frown>. I and others have brought this up on several occasions. As far as I know Kenwood doesn't have an answer.

one of David Botts post on it (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&postid=1057058&highlight=info+button+movie#post1057058) (Nick, when formating a message click on the "http : //" 'button next to the vBCode text')

The screen with the description of the movie does show up in the manual, it does show up on screen snap shot images that where on Clutchfield's site and it did show up in the recent article in Audio Video Interiors (Sept?).

Perhaps I missed it and it does show something up somehow.

JD-NH, can you acknowledge what the INFO button does or was supposed to do while displaying a) DVDs, b) i-radio and c) music ? Can this be added to the Kenwood FAQ?

I could actually envision that OpenGlobe doesn't want it to do anything and they want you to go to their website (OG button) access to look it up? I wonder how'd you scroll thru the desc text if it was brought up in the upper pane. My guess is you can't/couldn't...seems like that screen layout is pretty much in stone.

I have seen/used the OG area and "clicked" on the "now playing" button while listening to music. This is somewhat cool actually because you get various details about the singers/band. Hmmm...what if the INFO button just automatically took you to the same place the "now playing" takes you?!? That'd be kinda of cool me thinks.

turns out i didn't have a dup issue. i was getting confused with the disc count number and the slot numbers. I thought disc 327 was slot 327. I do really have 40 unknown discs out of 384.

Lady and the Tramp Part II (Disney for you dirty minded people) and Peter Pan II are among those not found.

How do you guys find available slots to put movies in if you haven't been putting them in a linear fashion?

I found one annoying UI flaw already. I created a catergory called Unwatched and dumped all my unwatched dvds in there. When you edit this category to remove titles after you have watched them, you have to scroll thru all the titles. It doesn't put all the checked ones at the top.

Overall I am beginning to like it a lot. Not happy about having to type in 40 dvds though.

Re: Infamous INFO button

In the Nov 02 (pg 88) issue of Audio Video Interiors it also has a picture of the Entre screen of the description of "Future Trek" and stated in the article that '...pressing the "Info" button on the Entre remote changes the GUI layout.' Perhaps it wasn't talking about the MOVIES gui screen but a MUSIC gui screen.

That Entre screen for "Future Trek" is the same one in the manual and certainly the same on on the Crutchfield site here (http://www.crutchfield.com/cgi-bin/S-j5LucTPZ0La/ProdView.asp?a=&s=0&g=105800&id=morephotos&i=113ENTRE) .

I don't know how you get to the description on the MOVIES gui screen. Perhaps JD-NH knows or someone else here...I don't recall this ever being figured out.

P.S. Nick, don't read that article...because it says "...Kenwood says that up to three DV-5900M units can be connected...unable to find anyone on A/V chat rooms able to accomplish this." Doh!

Re: Creating a playlist via the web interface

FYI, I was not able to get to the OpenGlobe Websync website (https://www.openglobe.net/kenwood/Login.asp?Mode=S) this morning. Actually I was able to get to the logon page (after hitting refresh just once) but then was not able to log in. I got the below from IE 6. I can get to their main page just fine: www.openglobe.net

[Note: in my previous post where my Entre would lock up doing Websync...I was able to get to the OpenGlobe site during that same time.]


Technical Information (for support personnel)
Error Type:
Server object, ASP 0177 (0x800401F3)
Invalid ProgID. For additional information specific to this message please visit the Microsoft Online Support site located at: http://www.microsoft.com/contentredirect.asp.
/kenwood/Login.asp, line 344
Browser Type:
Mozilla/4.0 (compatible; MSIE 6.0; Windows 98)
Page:
POST 51 bytes to /kenwood/Login.asp
POST Data:
Email=&UserName=108xxxxx&Password=xxxxxxx&x=93&y=21
Time:
Monday, September 16, 2002, 1:40:07 PM

Maybe I just haven't figured it out yet, but the Web Sync function and Web Interface seems pretty useless and slow to me. I can do everything with the Entre' Media Manager software that Web Sync can do plus a whole lot more, and it's faster. Unless I'm missing something.

The Info button. Well, on an udio CD or MP3, the info button will hide the big cover art picture and show you the track times down the right side. A clock showing current track time also appears at the end of the track title. It also lets you see the entire track title for those with really long names. That's about all it does from what I can tell, aside from finger exercise that is...lol That cracked me up.

I have seen a few people here complain about the noise the 5900 makes. I must be lucky, mine is very quiet. Mine does make an audible hum while accessing some DVD menus, but that's it. It's my darn Entre' that is too loud. Geeze is that thing loud. Even when it's off, it sounds like a mini fridge in my room. I guess the hard drive never stops, just slows down. It must have a fan in there too.

Bob

has anyone called kenwood and asked why the manual states that you should see a sypnosis (their word) in the guide for the current movie highlighted when it doesn't work that way?

If I have a chance I will call them. My theory is that it was there in an early release, but they either pulled it intentionally, or the feature was lost and no one noticed.

I know it's a minor thing, but it really bugs me.

For those with Axcess units...You need to download an update for it to have Internet Radio active again. (they made a IP change.)

So...on your Entre...go to Setup and Utilities and Update Software.

After it downloads and reboots the Entre you then need to Reboot your Axcess.

To do this...just hold down the power button for 6 seconds or so and it will reboot. After the POWER light lights...press power and it will download the update from the Entre to make the Axcess ver 1.12.

Take care.

David . . . even if you don't have Axcess, does it make sense to update the software?

Alternatively, will it do it automatically?

Finally . . . the tender topic . . . any guesses on what next week's CEDIA has in store ?

Nick :cool:

in one of the setup screens you can specify for updates to download automatically and you setup the time I believe.

Originally posted by Nicholas
David . . . even if you don't have Axcess, does it make sense to update the software?

Alternatively, will it do it automatically?

Finally . . . the tender topic . . . any guesses on what next week's CEDIA has in store ?

Nick :cool:

Nick....it was only a change for the Axcess...no need to force an update if you do not have one. I have nothing on CEDIA.

Slocko...That is incorrect. You can tell it to auto download and it does it once a week based on when your box first registered itself with the download server. Other than that, you can tell it to check for an update manually.

Sorry David. I was going by memory.

OK folks, after spending much of the weekend trouble shooting my DNS error of 169...., I wanted to get the groups opinion. To recap, Saturday morning all was ok, but in the pm, my entre would not connect while my two computers via a seperate router had no problem at all. My entres IP was the infamous 169... I called Comcast who rebooted my modem settings which did nothing (again my computers connect fine). I spoke to Kenwood today with not much help. I changed all of my cables, switched from the netmate to a new belkin 5050 usb to ethernet adapter, and removed all computers from my network. I have been running comcast pro which gives me 5 dynamic IPs. Previously, I could never get the entre to work with my current router, a macsense, since to defeat the firewall, I needed to give the entre a static IP which also never worked. So things were going ok, the router for my computer got one IP and the entre got another. The cable modem went to a hub which then went to my router and to the entre which was infront of the router. Now, after changing the wires and adapter, I did a factory reset which finally allowed the entre to pick up a comcast IP using the default entre operating system. However, when I upgraded to the current .10, again I got the 169 and I was back to square one. So it seems there is a conflict with .10 with my comcast service. What is strange is that my entre had been working ok with .10 until Saturday pm. Has any one seen this with comcast. I can not figure out why, with the new OS, I can not connect but was able using the older OS. I wonder if comcast changed something... but I would think that others would be affected.

I would like to try using a router since the entre may be able to pick up the IP from the router and hopefully, the router can then get an IP from comcast. Can people suggest routers that they have been able to get to work ie defeat the firewall function and still use dhcp serving rather than a static IP. Sorry for the long winded account but this DNS thing has tortured me!

Re: Websync Media Manager 'feature'
Bob_422, I was trying to use the websync feature because it is accessible from any of my home computers (ie. kids) or work (ie. wife wants to create playlist at lunch). I was going to try the PC Media Manager but the links I was following on the kenwood site wanted me to log on. I had trouble logging in even tho I'm registered and provided Kenwood support with my confirmation number. They are still figuring that out after a week and a half!!

In any event, I was then able to download Media Manager from here (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/register/cddbnews.jsp ) . It is considerably better than that slow (intern project?) Websync MM site. I thought it was not able to select a group of songs to added to a playlist all at once but <right clicking> on the "tag" boxes has a "set all" menu option. I don't think this is in the help.

Re: DNS torture!
Indeed I know the feeling of getting that APIPA (http://www.win2000mag.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=7464) DNS error. Since upgrading to .10 I (and others) had DNS issues and wasted several hours trying to resolve them. No doubt KW/OG made technical changes to speed up the internet radio/etc access. As you likely read on page 28 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=95150&perpage=30&pagenumber=28) that I was only able to use a static IP setup in the Entre and use a feature of my Nexland Hub/Router to always give the the Entre MAC a fixed IP (192.168.0.10). This worked and I gave up other options. Life is short!

Re: Axcess (glutton for punishment I am :rolleyes: )
David, thanks for the heads up about getting the new software. Do you actually have an Axcess? Seems like KW/OG would have a better way of disseminating the information <grin/frown>.

I just got the Axcess a couple days back. I'm using it for my whole house audio. Before I just had an old boom box set on a radio station and a few rooms with speakers have off/on/volume controls for any input coming in.

With the Axcess I have the boom box on the AUX so we can still get that local radio station (without Entre/network overhead).

Intermittently I'm getting bad static/crackling noise out of the speakers playing MP3s. Resetting the Axcess has not always helped. Last night it always did this but this morning it was OK. Strange. Any others experience this? Currently it is working well and is clear as a bell.

Internet radio is not working (Axcess is 1.12 now). I get "Network Failure Please reboot..." on the Axcess. Anyone get this error and recall the solution (when rebooting doesn't help) I only get this when I plug in the NetGear PE102 which is listed in the Axcess Conn and Setup Guide as known to work. Anyone successfully using the PE102 with the Axcess?. I searched the thread but didn't see any.

Scott...Yes, I have one. Yes, all registered users of the product will receive an e-mail on it so I am not the means on communication. I just wanted to get the info out to the forum members.

I have not had any static/crackling from any of the sources via my Axcess.

I can not test to see if it is down again ("Network Failure Please reboot") for I am not home right now. I am using the Netgear PE102.

I use a d-link wireless router 713p with a linksys hpna ethernet bridge connected to cablevision. I have no problems. The hpna bridge is nice because eventually I will get the Axcess product and I have telephone jacks in all my rooms.

I am using dhcp and I haven't changed any of the defaults on the router, so there are no open ports on the firewall. The router has 3 ethernet ports in addition to the wireless capabalities. I have two computers on two of the ports, and the hpna ethernet bridge on the thrid port. I have a third computer connected wirelessly.


Originally posted by RShlansky
OK folks, after spending much of the weekend trouble shooting my DNS error of 169...., I wanted to get the groups opinion. To recap, Saturday morning all was ok, but in the pm, my entre would not connect while my two computers via a seperate router had no problem at all. My entres IP was the infamous 169... I called Comcast who rebooted my modem settings which did nothing (again my computers connect fine). I spoke to Kenwood today with not much help. I changed all of my cables, switched from the netmate to a new belkin 5050 usb to ethernet adapter, and removed all computers from my network. I have been running comcast pro which gives me 5 dynamic IPs. Previously, I could never get the entre to work with my current router, a macsense, since to defeat the firewall, I needed to give the entre a static IP which also never worked. So things were going ok, the router for my computer got one IP and the entre got another. The cable modem went to a hub which then went to my router and to the entre which was infront of the router. Now, after changing the wires and adapter, I did a factory reset which finally allowed the entre to pick up a comcast IP using the default entre operating system. However, when I upgraded to the current .10, again I got the 169 and I was back to square one. So it seems there is a conflict with .10 with my comcast service. What is strange is that my entre had been working ok with .10 until Saturday pm. Has any one seen this with comcast. I can not figure out why, with the new OS, I can not connect but was able using the older OS. I wonder if comcast changed something... but I would think that others would be affected.

I would like to try using a router since the entre may be able to pick up the IP from the router and hopefully, the router can then get an IP from comcast. Can people suggest routers that they have been able to get to work ie defeat the firewall function and still use dhcp serving rather than a static IP. Sorry for the long winded account but this DNS thing has tortured me!

Hello all-
Sorry I've been absent the last couple of days...traveling and general craziness!
Couple of quick comments:
1) as David posted there was a bug discovered Friday at OG as it relates to Axcess. The fix was posted last night, and is available for download immediately. (Your Axcess will update automatically when you turn it on again.)
2) Another bug surfaced Friday re: dial-up connections...previously you did not need to enter any information in the DNS field when using dial-up. In order to get dial-up Entres working correctly, you now need to entre the following in the DNS 1 fields: 207 250 129 8
This should correct any problems dial-up users are having with disc lookup and OG problems.

I don't have any more information than I posted here...sorry!

as a side note to Mr. Shalansky...I can't imagine why you're having all these problems with DNS errors....have you tried adding the Linksys router and simply cloning the Entre's MAC address? That seemed to correct all the Comcast problems I've had using other routers...you can then connect your other router products to one of the remaining 3 ports on the router.

Take care everyone...
Jeff

slocko et al.
Hi there! Currently DVD info is not diplayed on the Movies menu, and can only be seen in the "Edit Disc" field. I have it on good authority that this will be the focus of a future upgrade....
Jeff

And, CEDIA, we've heard, is when the fix for the multichanger control is supposed to be announced. However, no one will now confirm or talk about this at Kenwood, and I'm having a hard time understanding what the big secret is--unless of course it's not going to happen after all.

I sure hope it happens. I'm nearly 100 discs into a second changer, and the existence of the Entre is now as much a problem as it is a nice feature. I really like the Entre, but not if it really doesn't work the way it's supposed to, and, if CEDIA doesn't produce a cure, then my patience will lapse. At that point, I'll seek to return it.

DVD Profiler, combined with s-link and DVD Lobby can provide what Entre would have failed to provide, although I have to commit to "running" my DVD changers from a laptop. So be it. I've already got a laptop in my "room," and another cable won't matter.


My real hope is that Kenwood makes good on Entre, because I think it's a great product (and still is for as long as you only need one changer), but you will see that it becomes as much a problem as a feature when you get over 400 discs.

Good luck, Kenwood. I really hope that this works out.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

DVD Lobby is evolving rapidly. Supposedly the next release is going to integrate more with dvd-profiler. I am keeping my eye on it. The graphics of the poduct leave the entre in the dust.

I just don't have the time right now to spend on getting it all working. That is why I decided to go with the entre. But I get the feeling that at some point dvdlobby will become a lot easier to setup. I also have a computer already connected to my home theater setup.

And my preference is to remain with Entre as well. But you have to have started the management of a second changer to really understand the pain in the neck that it becomes, when Entre is only good for the first.

I would obviously prefer a unified system, which is what Kenwood marketed. I'm still holding out. Maybe we'll get really good news next week. But Kenwood should not expect anyone to wait longer than that.

Nick :cool:

I am also considering going to DVD Lobby for a number of reasons. I already have the S-link hooked up controlling my Sony Mega CD changer with an HTPC using the free CDJ application, so other than changing out the Kenwood stuff I already have what is needed. My plan was first to change out the Sony changer and hook up a second/third Kenwood changer to the Entre to handle my CD's, but I may have to revise that plan now (the lack of a product road map for the Entre is quite frustrating, but I give the CEDIA a chance for some exciting news).

DVD Lobby together with CDJ would be a good combination, being able to control multiple CD and DVD changers with a superior interface, a complete database using DVD Profilor, and with competent (committed) software developers backing their products.

FYI....

To: OpenGlobe OEM Customers
Date: 9/19/2002
Re: OpenGlobe Services Move


OpenGlobe Services Move From Globix to Indianapolis

Summary

Last week, OpenGlobe completed a transition of its services from the Santa Clara, CA co-location facility of Globix to its Indianapolis headquarters. This transition was completed on Friday, Sept. 13. As a result, certain dial-up customers may have experienced an interruption in service.

Detail:

OpenGlobe-enabled systems that are dialing into an ISP that does not use enhanced PPP are no longer getting a valid address for a DNS (domain name server). The DNS server is responsible for translating “ce.openglobe.net” or any other web address to an actual IP address (xxx.xxx.xxx.xxx). The products have three methods to obtain this DNS number (in order of preference):

1st – Use a DNS address that has been entered manually at registration or within Setup

2nd – Use the DNS address that you’re the customer’s Internet Service Provider (ISP) assigns upon connection (enhanced PPP)

3rd – Use a DNS hard-coded into the software of the product.


A dialup connection will fail to connect to OpenGlobe’s servers if:

1st – A DNS address has not been manually entered.

2nd – Either the ISP does not use enhanced PPP and therefore is not supplying the product with a DNS address or the ISP has not recently updated it’s DNS server’s IP tables.

3rd – The IP address hard coded into the product software is no longer a valid IP address the new server location has a different DNS number. The new IP address may be updated in the subsequent software releases.


Remedial Action:

For new or unregistered units:

1. Install and connect the product as usual and follow the prompts. If the product connects to the ISP but cannot log onto OpenGlobe then proceed to Step 2. If it succeeds, proceed as normal.

2. In the Quickstart, when getting to the dialup settings page, populate any of the following two DNS addresses into the DNS1 and DNS2 fields, leaving the connection type Dynamic:

198.6.1.1
198.6.1.2
198.6.1.3
198.6.1.4

For any installed / registered units that cannot connect to the OpenGlobe servers:

1. Press Setup.
2. Select Internet Configuration.
3. Select Primary TCP/IP Settings.
4. Leave Dynamic highlighted and arrow down to DNS 1 and DNS 2. Enter two of the 198.6.1.x numbers listed above
5. Reboot, retry Get Music Info, or any other OpenGlobe function.

RE: OpenGlobe Services Move
4. Leave Dynamic highlighted and arrow down to DNS 1 and DNS 2. Enter two of the 198.6.1.x numbers listed above
That's interesting. I was thinking that you either get everything dynamic (IP, DNSes, etc) or once you specify static that you have to hardcode everything. Didn't realize you could do a combination of dynamic and specify other information (ie. DNSes) "staticly".


RE: Axcess Network Failure Please reboot
Internet radio is not working (Axcess is 1.12 now). I get "Network Failure Please reboot..." on the Axcess. Anyone get this error and recall the solution (when rebooting doesn't help) I only get this when I plug in the NetGear PE102 which is listed in the Axcess Conn and Setup Guide as known to work. Anyone successfully using the PE102 with the Axcess?. I searched the thread but didn't see any.

I tested the PE102 just with the Entre and found it to work. Cool not faulty PE102. Now either Axcess issue or user error :eek:...or doc error. Well my issue turned out to be that before I got the HPNA Bridge that I was using the built-in Entre HPNA to communicate with the Axcess (MP3 playing) and set the secondary connection to 'hpna'. This worked except for i-radio - as was documented and expected.

However, once you add the HPNA<->Ethernet bridge then you need to change the secondary connect to 'ethernet'. It is no longer the Entre's phone line connection talking to the Axcess it is now the Entre Ethernet connection talking to the bridge who in turn is talking to the Axcess. OK seems 'obvious' now.

Connection and setup guide that comes with the Axcess only states on pg 7 to 'select HOMEPNA' but the PDFs on the Tips and Install Kenwood site (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/group_info.jsp?categoryTypeId=130&productId=2358&productTypeId=147) are clear about setting 'ethernet' and have pictures :o

Maybe just maybe this will help someone else.

Hi everyone-
Not to contradict David's post, but the DNS number I was given for Entre dialup users is:
DNS1 207 250 129 8

I don't know if the other numbers work or not, but I have personally tested this one.

Thanks for hanging in there.
Jeff

ps I don't know of any official announcements regarding CEDIA or I would have passed them along. As a reult, anything you may have heard or been talking about, have NOT been promised or announced...if you have a Kenwood source that HAS promised something, pleae let me know!

Originally posted by JD-NH

ps I don't know of any official announcements regarding CEDIA or I would have passed them along. As a result, anything you may have heard or been talking about, have NOT been promised or announced...if you have a Kenwood source that HAS promised something, please let me know!

I won't get into why we believed that CEDIA was the promised arrival of multichanger support, but rest assured that a number of people on this forum have been operating on that premise for months, and have waited for CEDIA for that reason. If the sources of that information want to make public disclosure, they are obviously free to do so.

Since Kenwood knows of your participation on this site, Jeff, it seems like a good bet that CEDIA will not offer such a fix, and Entre owners will continue to be left hanging. I find it very disappointing that Kenwood is distancing itself from any commitment in this regard.

Perhaps you can advise if Kenwood has initiated a refund program for Entre owners, should they choose to quit waiting? Now that I'm into a second changer (90 discs and growing), Entre is failing of its essential purpose. When I bought it, I bought two changers along with it, on the basis that it would control both (and a third when necessary). You're right, Kenwood did not promise that CEDIA would be the the time for the fix. What it did promise, when I purchased the unit a year ago, was that it would control three changers. The promise was broken nearly a year ago.

As much as I like Entre, it's not what I paid for, and it's not what Kenwood said it would deliver. Now that a Kenwood representative is on the site discussing what is or is not an "official" position, please let us know if you can articulate an official position on refunds.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Jeff before you contradict my post as you did...you are best advised that the info was sent to me direct from OpenGlode. Now yours may be working...but it also may not be the IP that was wanted to be given out for whatever reason. You best check with your people and OpenGlobe for what I posted was from a kindly asked e-mail to due so from them.

Oh Oh. It's not sunny in Pleasantville :(

Originally posted by JD-NH
Hi everyone-
Not to contradict David's post, but the DNS number I was given for Entre dialup users is:
DNS1 207 250 129 8

I don't know if the other numbers work or not, but I have personally tested this one.

Thanks for hanging in there.
Jeff

ps I don't know of any official announcements regarding CEDIA or I would have passed them along. As a reult, anything you may have heard or been talking about, have NOT been promised or announced...if you have a Kenwood source that HAS promised something, pleae let me know!

Just got the Entre, DVD, and receiver. Purchased the approved Belkin Ethernet hub. Downloaded Entre update via dial-up. Now, I keep getting DNS Failure errors. Have worked with Kenwood to no avail. Have checked that line is working, that hub is working, that there are no firewalls, that everything is dynamic including router. I have also tried the dynamic with listed DNS's. Router is a SMS wireless but entre is hardwired into router.

Any ideas out there? Thanks.

DEREKFSU,
what service are you using, some like AOL are not compatible.

Sorry, I am using Sprint DSL at 512kb.

i thought the solution was to use a hardcoded ip address.

Originally posted by DerekFSU
Just got the Entre, DVD, and receiver. Purchased the approved Belkin Ethernet hub. Downloaded Entre update via dial-up. Now, I keep getting DNS Failure errors. Have worked with Kenwood to no avail. Have checked that line is working, that hub is working, that there are no firewalls, that everything is dynamic including router. I have also tried the dynamic with listed DNS's. Router is a SMS wireless but entre is hardwired into router.

Any ideas out there? Thanks.

Originally posted by DerekFSU
Downloaded Entre update via dial-up. Now, I keep getting DNS Failure errors.

So your connection setup has been consistent but after you downloaded the .10 release you started getting DNS look up failures? Or did I misread something (albeit you were terse <grin>)

One thought is to get the LAN version of this DNS management software. http://www.extratools.com/extradns.htm . Basically your main computer is a DNS server and your other internet 'appliances/computers' talk to it for DNS lookup. I suggest this because it logs DNS activity ... always nice to have some clues since the Entre diagnostic information is limited.

P.S. Kenwood/OpenGlobe, I have to admit after getting the Axcess that I've come to appreciate some of the networking issues (stream multiple Axcess MP3/i-radio when Entre is on or in standby, etc) that KW/OG had to deal with in designing the products to be flexible in talking to each other and to the internet. There are a lot of ways to hook those guys up and it just magically tries to handle it ... often pretty well ... sometimes not.

Exactly Scott. It started after I got .10. Thanks for the advice.

Derek

I'm reading with interest because its either an Entre or a more complicated piece of open domain software combined with DVDProfiler and DVDLobby. I'm hoping that CEDIA will provide some info because I/ve got a 10% coupon for GoodGuys that expires 10/5. Being an authorized Kenwood dealer, its about as good as I could do with the Entre.

I'm still hoping (probably against hope) that later this week we'll get great news from CEDIA where Kenwood is presenting. But Jeff's earlier response sure didn't inspire confidence in that. Despite that response, I'm hoping that it's just not a widely known matter at Kenwood.

I know ithe issue of multi-changer support is not a tangible problem for most of the Entre owners, because only a few people have an actual need, at the moment, for Entre to support more than one changer. I would hate for that to be the reason that Kenwood drags its feet on the issue, i.e., who cares about a few multi-changer owners despite how the product was marketed?

I'll be anxiously reading posts from those of you at CEDIA, hopefully with good news.

Nick :cool:

sigh.........

my player experienced the dreaded cannot play disc error again. After watching Monsters Inc 3 times over the weekend, on the fourth playing it froze and then it couldn't play any disc. The dvd was brand new and it hadn't been removed from the player after watching it 3 times.

There is no fix to that problem. You just shut off the player for a few hours and it magically begins working again. Anything else that you try does not work. It may appear to work, but it's just coincidence. The player seems to require a certain amount of time to pass before it resets whatever went haywire with the freeze.

I have the feeling that this problem happens every nth number of total disc playing. Because of the kids the 5900 gets a lot of use in my house so I see it every few months. I never turn off the unit.

Jeff does Kenwood have any statistics on this problem? Is it even acknowledged? It is so infrequent that probably many people do not bother reporting it. I know I haven't.

i just found a whole category of devices that allow you to control your pc via regular infrared like that of remote controls. They are basically just a small ir receiver that connects to your computer via the serial port. they seem compatible with 95 percent of the remote controls.

So if you can connect the video out of the computer to your tv, you can use dvdlobby as your interface and one of these devices with the software to control dvd lobby. It should be a matter of programming macros that issue the play command in dvdlobby and change inputs on your tv. If you want to bring up dvd lobby again, another macro to switch inputs back to the computer.

It's not as complicated as I previously thought. The dvdprofiler integration is probably the most work.

Anyway just mentioning it since there are a few of us on the fence. I just moved one step closer. The barcode reader was a great idea. In another forum it was mentioned that they were using one of the big ones, so with one click it read the entire upc code.

Originally posted by slocko

It's not as complicated as I previously thought. The dvdprofiler integration is probably the most work.

Anyway just mentioning it since there are a few of us on the fence. I just moved one step closer. The barcode reader was a great idea. In another forum it was mentioned that they were using one of the big ones, so with one click it read the entire upc code.

I have a PM into the DVD Lobby designer, and that's my backup plan. I still, for the sheer sake of inertia, want to use Entre . . . but if CEDIA's not the "event," when is? At some point, you just have to quit waiting. I still keep buying DVDs, and I'm using the Library/User File on the 2d Kenwood changer, because Entre stops working after the 1st.

That said, if DVD Profiler is the user interface, there's just no comparison. I'm close enough to having all the equipment that I may get it anyway, and I hope that I get the chance to actually live with both for a while, at least for comparison's sake. Still hoping for good news, Kenwood. Suprise me.

Nick :cool:

I just got a Progear and would like to use it with DVDLobby. What's the easiest way to use it with the Kenwood? I'm sure its in the mile long threads on the HTPC forum but I could use a good faq on it.

I, for one, will be extremely disappointed (ok, really pissed off) if Kenwood fails to introduce multi-changer to the entre. I did purchase two 5900's and the entre only because it would daisy chain. I have over 600 DVD's in my collection. If I can't daisy chain than I should have stayed with the Sony DVD multi-changers and just purchased 4 of them for 1/3 the price I paid for these two kenwoods and the entre. I was told that the multi-changer function would be introduced in June (I guess I forgot to ask what year).

The real question becomes, can we use DVD Profiler and a PC to accomplish the task of multi-changers, becasue quite frankly, DVD Profiler is the best inventory program I have seen. With the cost of computers at an all time low, it would be more cost effective to just replace the entre with a full blown computer that can rip and burn CD's/DVD'd, access the web, and download DVD Profiler onto your tv screen.

Originally posted by zinja
I, for one, will be extremely disappointed (ok, really pissed off) if Kenwood fails to introduce multi-changer to the entre. I did purchase two 5900's and the entre only because it would daisy chain. I have over 600 DVD's in my collection. If I can't daisy chain than I should have stayed with the Sony DVD multi-changers and just purchased 4 of them for 1/3 the price I paid for these two kenwoods and the entre. I was told that the multi-changer function would be introduced in June (I guess I forgot to ask what year).

The real question becomes, can we use DVD Profiler and a PC to accomplish the task of multi-changers, becasue quite frankly, DVD Profiler is the best inventory program I have seen. With the cost of computers at an all time low, it would be more cost effective to just replace the entre with a full blown computer that can rip and burn CD's/DVD'd, access the web, and download DVD Profiler onto your tv screen.

Well, we're in the distinct minority, and, unfortunately, it's easier for Kenwood to blow us off. I hope that they're not just giving lip service to this, but, without getting into particulars, I first heard "90 days" (right after I bought the Entre, and already had two changers), then I heard summer, then I heard CEDIA. Well, CEDIA is this week.

As for DVD Profiler, there is no question that it is a lights-out better interface than Entre . . . but can it control the DVD Changers, and give us a graphic UI on screeen? Supposedly, vis-a-vis the program called DVD LOBBY, the answer is yes. You have to be willing to introduce a computer and a s-link (device normally used to connect Sony CD Changers) to acheive that however, and I have no knowledge of functionality issues.

I'm calling Mario today (developer of DVD Lobby) and my objective is to get up and running with this as well. Then I can offer a comparison.

Make no mistake, I still want Entre to be the solution, because I think it's a great product. But at what point does Kenwood go from being "mistaken" to just outright "failing" (or worse yet, "deceiving")? I've waited nearly a year.

To all the users that don't yet have a full changer, you don't feel the significance of it yet, but the same can be true for the people that paid for a full spare tire in their trunk, but got a doughnut instead. Yes, it'll ride, but not for long.

I'm hoping that CEDIA gets rids of the doughnuts and gives us all full spares.

Nick :cool:

Hello everyone-
Just to be clear, Kenwood isn't "blowing you off"...we hear you loud and clear! Entre has been a learning experience for all of us, and it's come a long way in the past 12 months.
As for the much discussed mutli changer support, please hang in there...I don't know of a single press release promising this feature on a certain date, and will (joyfully) make one should the information come my way.
Until then...can we get this thread back on the good stuff? You know, the installation, use and enjoyment of the Sovereign products?
Cheers
Jeff

and in the immortal words of Art Dudley...Have a bunny! (cute tension-destroying picture of bunny should be inserted here...)

Hi Jeff,

can you then atleast assure us all that the Multi-Changer support is coming at one point in the future, i.e. that it is being worked on actively at Kenwood (and is confirmed on the product road map) ??

Thanks, /Lars
Plano, TX

Originally posted by JD-NH
As for the much discussed mutli changer support, please hang in there...I don't know of a single press release promising this feature on a certain date, and will (joyfully) make one should the information come my way.

Well, Jeff . . . . there was the specification sheet on the Kenwood website when I bought it a year ago, and there was the spec sheet Kenwood issued to its dealers, again, a year ago. Surely you're not suggesting that Kenwood only speaks through its press releases, are you? As I noted in my response to your PM, I'm trying to be restrained on the public discussion of this subject, but then when I see this kind of backpedalling from Kenwood, you almost invite it.

If my information on CEDIA was wrong, so be it. But Kenwood should never forget that this was promised at the get-go, as an existing feature of this product, and that it's been a year.

Until then...can we get this thread back on the good stuff? You know, the i installation, use and enjoyment of the Sovereign products?
Cheers
Jeff

You deserve Kenwood Employee of the year for this one. I hope that this thread has not been transformed into an advertisement for Kenwood Sovereign. That's where you get to talk about only the good stuff, but then you have to pay for it.

I still like Entre (for the first 400 discs), and it works great (on the first changer). I hope I can say that three times.

Nick :cool:

Nick-
Re: the employee of the year comment, please pass that up to my bosses, will you :)
Seriously though, I think it's VERY important to address all the issues and frustrations with this product as they arise, in addition to the good stuff. My concern currently is that there is a stated problem, namely the lack of Multi-Changer support, and as of right now, there is no known solution. No amount of re-posting the original problem is going to fix that.
So what do you say folks? Truce?
Jeff

Jeff, so in other words Kenwood does not have a solution for the Multi-Changer control in the works? or is it confidential whether they are trying to address this serious problem with the system? All I am asking is to know whether this is being worked on actively by Kenwood - but maybe that is asking too much!?!?

JD-NH,

Nice to have someone from Kenwood/Sovereign on the forum. And, I hope you don't take this the wrong way, but I am very, very far from being at the truce stage with the DV-5900M itself (forget the Entre).

Here's why:

- No random or sequential playback for lists created using the OSD (for different genres or custom file types). How could this be? This would be the first feature I'd implement on a mega-changer. When I select a disc, when it's done, it goes to the next disc in the changer in numerical order. Unfortunately, I did not insert my discs in any type of order, so when the machine finishes Beethoven's 9th in slot 99, it begins to play Nirvana's Nevermind in slot 100!! This is really bad for a megachanger. It should at least go to the next disc in the list I've selected using the OSD.

- Can't select play random/sequential for a specific genre or user file using the OSD!

- MP3 output only available via the analog output. This is a digital medium, yet you're making me listen to it via the analog out.

- MP3 files are limited to 8.3 filenames. Lame.

- Read-only title info for discs with CD-TEXT. I have some CDs that have CD-TEXT, but ship incredibly useless titles in CD-TEXT. The 5900 won't let me overwrite this info with more descriptive/useful titles.

- 3-6 second layer change delay

- DVD-Audio sends garbage via the digital out. This is disturbing when listing to normal CDs via coax, then the changer loads a DVD-A, and outputs garbage and noise through the speakers! This is dangerous to my home theater.

- You can not categorize using groups via the OSD or keyboard. You have to use the remote control.

- Can't bring up the OSD while a disc is playing.

- Scanning the entire library every time the unit is turned on

- Automatically playing the last CD/DVD played when turned on -- sooo horrible, that this "feature" alone makes me think twice before turning it on to listen to something... having to hit the STOP button 10 times while it "boots" and then having to wait for the DVD-V intro screens (that you cannot stop) finish, just to listen to a CD! AGH!

- No OSD display of disc/track/artist info during playback. AGH

- Pure Audio mode puts the kenwood splash screen back up in PAUSE mode

- Can't enter lowercase characters via the OSD using the keyboard

A lot of usability issues for a $1500 unit, wouldn't you agree?

Y'know, the 5900M would have been the product of the year and would have had such an enormous following if it wasn't so bloody frustrating. The audio and video quality is EXCELLENT, and mine, at least, is very reliable. But, it is terribly SLOW, and that speed becomes a barrier to entry for turning it on and selecting something to play -- a very unfortunate consequence.

There's still nothing else quite like the 5900M out there. Kenwood was way far ahead of everyone a year ago, and they still are! If they would only release a ROM upgrade to fix the above issues, I know many of my friends would buy one (one of my friends actually just SOLD his on ebay because it was too frustrating for him to deal with).

Sorry JD-NH, I didn't mean to B&M (bitch and moan) on your first day. Just take these comments back to your folks and have them focus on the customer's needs. I promise a loyal, profitable following in return.

Thanks!

Originally posted by kelliot
I just got a Progear and would like to use it with DVDLobby. What's the easiest way to use it with the Kenwood? I'm sure its in the mile long threads on the HTPC forum but I could use a good faq on it.

Ken,
The link is actually listed on my DVDLobby FAQ page as far as using a ProGear with DVDLobby Pro. :)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165646&highlight=dvdlobby

A member of the AVSForum who wrote the above tutorial also wrote a great program that he use's to sync DVDLobby Pro up to 7 of his ProGears scattered throughout the home. The tutorial is geared towards an HTPC but could be modified for every individual situation.

Here's a link to his new software that does a lot of other cool things like sorting by genre, title..., automatic conversion of images, edit descriptions, add your own images, etc.
http://www.webpromotion.com/cinemar/dvdlobby.3rdparty.html

I'm trying to get the command line parameters from another programmer for communication with the Kenwood changer.

I had the pleasure of speaking with Nick today. He should be up-and-running soon.

Originally posted by JD-NH
Seriously though, I think it's VERY important to address all the issues and frustrations with this product as they arise, in addition to the good stuff. My concern currently is that there is a stated problem, namely the lack of Multi-Changer support, and as of right now, there is no known solution. No amount of re-posting the original problem is going to fix that.
So what do you say folks? Truce?
Jeff

Jeff, does "truce" mean "quit talking about the lack of multichanger support already?":)

Jeff, here's the problem. Lars just asked whether it's in the works or not, and all you responded was "there is no known solution." Ok, but is it in the works, or not? That's the question that Kenwood won't answer directly. Never would. I thought it was going to get resolved this week, but you've made it clear that's not going to happen.

When it all gets broken down, there are only two possible responses by Kenwood on the subject:

-- (1) There will be a solution, we just can't say when that will be.

--(2) We don't know if there will ever be a solution.

All agree that this is a major issue. Now, logically, if, as you say "as of right now, there is no known solution," then the only real answer can be (2), i.e., you don't know if there ever will be one..

What you have to grasp is that this one is a deal-killer. If it's not going to happen then people who are purchasing sure want to know. And, even more, people who have already purchased want to know. So it's not as if people can just move on to the next subject with a "truce." I happen to like the cover art that gets downloaded off OpenGlobe. Should we stop talking about that, too? After all, it's already been mentioned. Or did you just mean stop talking about the bad things that have already been mentioned?

At last year's CES, the Kenwood representative at the Sovereign exhibit spent time trying to convince me that Kenwood had "never" promised multichanger support by Entre (this was a month after I purchased it). You have now stated that it was a "mistake" to have stated that on the Kenwood website, and that the mistake was rectified by removing it from the website. On the multiple occasions that I, and others, have talked to Kenwood about this, we get politician's answers ("we can neither confirm nor deny . . . "). And all the while, Kenwood has tried to convey the message that it "will" come, just as long as Kenwood doesn't say it.

This may sound hard to believe, but I'm just as tired of talking about this as you are of hearing it. I'm not interested in legal remedies (and I'm a lawyer) . . . I just want to know: IS THIS THING GOING TO WORK LIKE KENWOOD SAID IT WOULD? If you don't know if that will ever happen, THEN KENWOOD SHOULD JUST SAY SO. But to have a Kenwood representative appear on this site and ask for a "truce," meaning, quit talking about that subject, is just mind-boggling.

I'd like to quit talking about it. And, no, I'm not threatening to continue talking about it . . . unless Kenwood says something . . . again . . . I really want to move off it. Perhaps Kenwood should take comfort in the fact that I'm one of the few people that this really bothers, but, I would hate to see people arrive at disc 400 just in time for their warranty to have run.

I am a genuine admirer of Entre. I like it, and have said so. If the support I was promised is offered, I'll continue to say so. I was genuinely enthused when you first appeared on this board, because it signified to me that this question had been answered, and Kenwood was no longer "hiding" from the subject. I just want to know if I should stick with the program, and the ANSWER to the question of multichanger support is a vital piece of information for that decision.

I would like to think that getting an answer is as simple as asking the question. But that would be too easy.

Nick :cool:

I bought the two 5900 and entre for one purpose and one only, so that I could have multi-changer support. I don't rip CD's or record them onto mp3, I don't have a TV capable of progressive scan. I took back two Sony's because they could not be daisy chained. I returned 5 pioneer multi-changers because of the reliabilty problems (4 of 5 broke within two weeks of illing them up, try an load 300-400 DVD's manually (takes three solid days each time).

As a sidelight, I purchased a Philips DVD burner for my computer. The box said it would burn RW+ and R+ DVD's. Low and behold, there is no software fix to permit it to burn R+. Philips is shipping their newest DVD burner that does both standards. Moral of the story: If you advertise it, you must be prepared to support it and make it work or replace it with a product that will work as advertised. I salute Philips for stepping up to the plate.

My point? I expect Kenwood to fulfill its advertising hype. It said that it would support multi-changers...it has a choice, either fulfill its advertising promises, replace the units with ones that do, or be prepared to make full refunds on the products. This is not me or anyone else on this fourm moaning and bitching. We are simply asking for something that was promised us in advertising.

Am I an attorney? You bet I am, who else could afford the very high prices of these Kenwood top of the line, leading edge products? Do I enjoy litigation? No way, I am a litigation defense attorney specializing in securities fraud. But, that does not mean that I and others that have purchased Kenwood products and have stayed loyal for these many months will not be forced to look at other alternatives.

Jeff, if you read this far, we only want to know if and when multi-changer functionality will be available. Its only fair that we be given a reasonable time frame ("sometime in the near future" is not sufficient. Look, we all like the product and want it to succeed, or we certainly would have returned these products a long time ago.

Why do we keep harping on this topic? For me and others with over 400 DVD/CD's, this is probably the most important reason for our purchases. We like the product, even though they ALL have a humming (vibration) problem, even though they all have hiccups and on ocassion say that a disk cannot be read (even though it played it the night before). Jeff we are not knocking thses products, we are simply asking to be treated fairly, kept in the loop and permitted to offer constructive insights in this leading edge technology.

I agree with the folks that are asking for the multi-changer functionality to be resolved. My company just became a Kenwood dealer. We were planning to sell the Sovereign stack with Crestron systems for our larger customers. Many of our customers don't the Escient or the Audio Request. The Sovereign is an excellent alternative, but...... Daisy chaining is crucial. I will be at Cedia and if nothing official is announced, then we'll have to re-think our offerings. I already have this system working in our show home integrated with Crestron wireless color touch screens. Changer is full. All customers that have seen it have placed orders with us for it, but most have more that 400 cd/dvd. This issue is the single biggest. I'll keep my fingers crossed, for a short while.

anthony

Re: we/they've come a long way
I spent some time looking at many of the earlier post on this thread. Heck I've found problems that I had with the Entre/5900 that I forgot I had. 1:45, rental play hard button not working, subtitles on, etc. Time can be a good thing <g>. I recall harping that the tips website was not working on a couple too many post http://www.kenwoodusa.com/sovereign/latest_tips but they resolved that. Of course my main issue was that for each release they don't tell us what they fixed. Still it appears they have fixed a variety of things and we all would probably pretty darn impressed if we knew all the work they KW/OG have done and many things I'd guess because we and other power users have brought them up.

We know KW/OG read this thread. David has told us so, Brian(KW) has responded and Jeff(KW a.k.a. JD-NH) is now here getting buggy whipped. (yes, a dead horse reference <g>)

I want multi-changer support as well. I've brought it up as well and created another thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=120934&highlight=entre). I've pointed to the old Kenwood website that states the Entre controls 3 (http://web.archive.org/web/20011106034640/http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2357&productLineId=2). I've mentioned it to Jeff in a P.S. in PM about mainly some Axcess issue. In early post various sources indicated it is being worked on. I honestly believe it is. No doubt they have obstacles. No doubt they will resolve them. Little doubt there will be a few bugs to get worked out once it is released.

Heck if you had to guess you'd probably say they had prioritized Axcess and some other things above the multi-changer support. Look how long it took to get the Axcess out.

It would be nice if we got some confirmation it is actively being worked on and a % complete kind of number. With the lawyers in the house {thread} you could see why they may hesitate to state anything at all.


Re: FAQs
I've looked at the Entre FAQ (MM listed at end) (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/group_info.jsp?categoryTypeId=110&productTypeId=147&productId=2357) recently. They are 'ok' and answer some questions that have been brought up. I noticed they have a e-mail address to address Entre problems. Not sure this has been mentioned or whether people have sent anything to it and have gotten a response (I think the DVDTitles e-mail never gives a response...ie not even an auto response - as in 'We got it. Thanks.'

BTW, when I was having Axcess problem I was directed to a Sovereign specific phone number. Details: 1-800-536-9663, opt 1, then ext 8500. California time 10:30am - 6pm

Scott:

Ok, your post inspired some historical reference of my own.

I actually started the first long thread on the Sovereign line. It was titled something like DV-5900 a Winner. There were several months worth of posts on that thread, and, when it started, my Entre was on order. The DV-5900 was already out. Ironically, through the tenure of that thread, we learned (after receiving our Entres) that multichanger support was not being offered, despite the direct opposite being stated on Kenwood's website, spec sheets, and even in the setup menu of the Entre itself.

David then started this thread, which took over the discussion. As I've read it over to get an historical perspective, I note that all of us owe a lot to David for the unselfish effort and work that he's done.

On December 14, 2001, a few weeks after this thread began, this is what Kenwood had to say:




I have been in close contact with the people at both Kenwood and OpenGlobe. I can assure you that they do read the site and the issues being raised by us great early adopters are being looked at. Now I am not talking to just the support line...but product managers and the people who can really answer the questions we have had. The great news, is they approached me because of this site.

Specifically, what the people at Kenwood said was:


Entre Multi Changer Support....This is also being looked into and plans are being made to make this work as intended.

I have been the most vocal about this, because I've been with this from the beginning. Unlike most of you, I have owned two changers from the beginning.

The reality is that Jeff's message as of today, that there is no "known solution" is a message of no progress whatsoever.--in about a year. It's the essence of being noncommital. I don't blame Jeff, because, hell, he just works there. But I'm beginnning to believe that this is not an issue of whether a fix exists. Can it really be that nearly a year passes without progress? Or is the issue really one of money? Stated bluntly, is it this: We'll see if enough people invest in Sovereign to justify the cost that a fix would involve?

And, no, this issue is not a "dead horse," as much as some people would like it characterized as such, because they would like it not discussed. If Kenwood comes out with an announcement that there will never be a fix, it will change the landscape altogether. No, they haven't said that, but in the year of "we're working on it," the question is again legitimately deserving the straightforward answer that Kenwood has never given. And to you people of experience, where actions speak louder than words, I ask again: Can it really take this long? Or is this an issue of money?

Again, I know that most of you don't "feel" this like I do, because most of you still have plenty of empty slots on that first changer, and, if there's no itch, you don't need to scratch. But do you care if your investment becomes obsolete? Do you plan on buying more DVDs? Maybe it will take a year, maybe more, to get to 400 . . . but do you really want to be in that position: Out of warranty, with a product that you thought could expand but the balloon doesn't blow up any further?

As for Kenwood's reticence to speak up because there are "lawyers in the house," I know that's a joke. A lawyer that was interested in anything but home theater gear could have done something about this a long time ago.

Nick :cool:

I'm also waiting for multi-changer support. My changer is full and I'm loading new discs into the rental slots. At lest I was doing this until it broke 4 weeks ago, I'm still waiting for the repair or replacement of my 5050M changer.

I guess I was smart in keeping my 2 Sony CD changers that have been working for years, without problems. I use the SLINK-E device to tap into the internet and control these CD changers. I works great! I'll keep my CD collection in the Sony changers.

I keep looking at adding changers and access modules, but not until the original usage is delivered. If Kenwood would refund my purchase price, I'll look into another alternative. As of today, I just don't think Kenwood deserves additional business from me.

Re: They've come a long way

Very true that many thanks are in order for David B as well as many others who've contributed usage tips, bug reporting and debugging clues, quotes of relevant information from the manual and enhancement request. I didn't list others because I didn't want to offend anyone but, Nick, you are certainly on that list.

I don't know which of the points here (http://www.thehumorarchives.com/humor/0000713.html) I was trying to specifically make in my reference to beating a dead horse but I was not trying to say it is a dead issue.

An interesting point about whether KW/OG are not_working/working on the 3 changer support because they are waiting to see if the Sovereign line $ucceed$. I can imagine how much $ and time has been invested into this line and that fact it's software upgradeable is key to me in it's future.

It seems it is more likely a matter of priorities and resources as has been discussed here before. This makes the most logical common/business sense. Also we have to realize they probably weigh a lot of prioritizing into people have various pieces of the soverign line to work as a 'set'. Having recently added an Axcess I can appreciate that. Still I don't have the receiver so I don't seen complete integration and ease of use.

It would seem they would be downright foolish not to complete (we know it was intended per UI, etc) the multichanger support. For those that have less than 400 DVDs now (me) they more than likely will in the future. DVDs are getting cheaper and cheaper. Heck Blockbuster has the new deal of rent it and if you like then buy it for $9.99 (often). I was originally going to get 2 changers because I was going to put CDs in one. Way too slow to listen to a random group of music. Dumb of me to even consider that. Ripping to the Entre and playing MP3 (on the Axcess) is the only logical choice for me now.

I absolutely want the 3 changer support as well. No question. Do I mind it getting brought up occasionally? No. How it is brought up or the tone? ...well that's subjective... Do I like to get other usage tips, statuses, reminders of some great features (like the Sirius radio (http://www.siriusradio.com) or addition info displayed in the OG interface) and positive things out of this thread. Absolutely. Should the various short comings of each device be brought up? Absolutely, that's how KW/OG will know address them or help in prioritizing.

Perhaps those wanting the multi-changer support and consider it a problem should e-mail EntreReports@kenwoodusa.com ? It was listed on the FAQ site.

I'll shut up now. My point of "They've come a long way" was that they have and that should be acknowledged. But "what have you done for me lately" is what most of us will say. ;)

got the famous unplayable disc error again. this time i didn't turn it off, just let it set for a few hours. cleared up.

can this be laser alignment problem?

i am currently at 390 discs in the 5900. I moved drama series like TNG, OZ, Sopranos, Sex in the City, 24 hrs, off the player to my old Pioneer jukebox. That thing is so reliable and fast. I get nostalgic when I use it :)

I would love to replace it with a 5050, and almost did. But held off. I am also puzzled why after a year kenwood is not prepared to make a statement one way or another.

I am also surprised none of the magazines that have reviewed the entire system have made a big stink out of it.

Well, regardless . . . I would like to hear what's stated at CEDIA. Isn't it going on on now?

Any reports from the field? Even to say "nothing new at CEDIA with Kenwood?" Or "Pioneer has introduced a competitive product?" Or, "DVD is out, laser disc returns."

Anything. Tell us.

Nick :cool:

Nick....Friday, Saturday and Sunday is the Expo.

Originally posted by David Bott
Nick....Friday, Saturday and Sunday is the Expo.

David:

If you get a chance, and if you have any interest in this sort of thing, mind strolling by the Philips exhibit, where they'll have the new i-Pronto on display? This is apparently a new 10" LCD color screen with internet connectivity, and supposedly the answer to thousands of questions. I just don't know what the questions are. I believe that it is a wireless broadband connection, and there was some discussion of being able to interact, vis-a-vis this new gadget, with sites like OpenGlobe, CDDB, etc.

Sounds like something that you could offer valuable insight into, as to whether it's a worthwhile product or not. I know this is off topic, but, if you have an interest and the time . . . .

If not, I'm sure others will report on it, but I'd be interested in your particular vantage point.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by zinja
We like the product, even though they ALL have a humming (vibration) problem, even though they all have hiccups and on ocassion say that a disk cannot be read (even though it played it the night before).

Not true. My 5900 has never hummed during disk playback. In fact, it's very quiet. The only time I ever notice any noise is during the initial scan when powering up the unit or when loading a new disk (I have 220 DVDs loaded).

Also, the one and only time I've ever seen the unit fail to read a disk was on a dirty rental. After I removed the disk and cleaned it everything went smoothly.

Although many owners have experienced these problems, you can't make a blanket statement that ALL have when there's no way you can know for sure. Or maybe I'm the only owner who's had a nearly trouble free experience with the 5900 (usability issues aside).

Regards,
Ken

P.S. After nearly a year of use, even my eject button still works.:)

Originally posted by slocko
I moved drama series like TNG, OZ, Sopranos, Sex in the City, 24 hrs, off the player to my old Pioneer jukebox. That thing is so reliable and fast. I get nostalgic when I use it :)

yeap. I'm still using the pioneer changer myself while waiting for the Kenwood system to meet my minimal requirements before purchase (and multi-changer ability is not even my top requirement). In the meantime, I've been really exepctating that Pioneer would come out with a progressive 300+n or 400+n DVD changer. I'm surprised there isn't one yet, they had a good opportunity.

Being a software engineer that has worked on consumer products in his past, I'm betting that Kenwood discovered that the multi-changer
restriction is tied to a hardware problem which is either too expensive or too difficult to repair. If it was only in software, you would have seen
an upgrade address it by now. If it is a big hardware problem, you all may actually be waiting for a new model of the product to be released before there's any chance of an exchange/replacement, which would take about a
year if true.

The sad thing is that if I am correct, Kenwood does not realize that it would be much better for them to be honest about it rather than play a
balancing game. They could have simply put a stake in the ground and said "every unit/serial-number purchased before today will be entitled to a
upgrade replacement" They would get a lot of respect from their supporters, limit the damage caused by the problem in a measureable way, prevent their competition from stealing the show immediately with their new product, and end all the the speculation.

What do I win if I am correct?

I was wrong, you do have to turn it off. When my wife told me it was working, she was referring to the Pioneer unit, not the kenwood :) Kenwood is still not working.

Originally posted by slocko
got the famous unplayable disc error again. this time i didn't turn it off, just let it set for a few hours. cleared up.

can this be laser alignment problem?

Originally posted by kbarrett


yeap. I'm still using the pioneer changer myself while waiting for the Kenwood system to meet my minimal requirements before purchase (and multi-changer ability is not even my top requirement). In the meantime, I've been really exepctating that Pioneer would come out with a progressive 300+n or 400+n DVD changer. I'm surprised there isn't one yet, they had a good opportunity.



Before the Kenwoods (DV-5900M & DV-5050M) I owned the Sony 850, then the Pioneer DV-F727, then added a Sony 860, then swapped that out for a Sony 870. Then the Kenwoods.

Hands down, the Pioneer was the most functional friendly of the bunch, and I'd still welcome it in my system if it had certain features. By the way, the Sony 870 had a great build quality (copper chassis . . . .sort of a non ES-ES . . .if you know what I mean).

As for Pioneer (or anyone for that matter) missing an opportunity . . . I don't know if the usual manufacturers perceive the changer market as something they want to get into. There's a post over, I think, on Steve B's Special Guests Forum from a Denon representative, and I posed the question to him of whether Denon expected to get into the changer market. It wouldn't be a strange thing, because Denon had manufactured some very nice (perhaps the best) CD changers, 100 or more discs. They were expensive, too.

What he told me was that Denon's own marketing and sales people had decided there was no market for a DVD changer that Denon chose to get into. And when you look around, other than Kenwood, only Sony has done anything new with a DVD changer in over a year, and that's a fairly low end version (though probably still a nice piece) of its earlier 860 model, only now with progressive scan. Well, that's no big deal anymore. Everyone's got progressive scan.

That's one of the concerning things to me . . . I really don't see any competition emerging. Sony sure didn't step up to the plate with anything near the features of the Sovereign line, and Pioneer, although there have been some rumblings, has been amazingly quiet for a company that can probably exhale these changers out. Plus, Pioneer remains one of my favorites for the features that it offers on its players . . . but nothing so far (CEDIA . . .I'm dying here . . .CEDIA . . .).

Truth is, throw out the Entre, and the Kenwood changers are still the best ones offered, in terms of the things that are most important to me: True Daisy-Chaining, disc space, and picture and sound quality. My difficulties have never really been with the changers (even the inability of the DV-5900 to pass a 24/96 signal digitally . . . another bug, but one that is forgiveable). Even if I throw in the towel on Entre and opt for a different interface, I'll likely stick with the changers, because, performance wise, they are still the best. They are unquestionably the least user friendly DVD changers ever made, but that's okay with me; I opt for the substance.

I hope there is competition, because that will make everything better and more affordable, but the changer market does not seem like something that manufacturers are beating down doors to get into.

Hope that changes this weekend. Or the day after that. Or . . .

Nick :cool:

I have question. Will the Entre' pass through a digital signal when it's turned off? What I mean is..If I were to connect my 5900M's digital and analog outputs to the Entre's digital and analog inputs, would the Entre' pass the digital signal on through to my receiver? Sometimes I don't turn my Entre' on just to listen to a CD or watch a rental DVD.

Right now my Entre' is connected to the DAT/MD inputs and outputs on my receiver (both digital and analog) and my 5900M is connected to my LD/DVD inputs (also both digital and analog). It would make life easier if I could just connect my 5900 directly to the Entre' so I wouldn't have to keep switching back and forth between DVD/LD & DAT/MD on my receiver every time a choose to play an MP3 or a CD/DVD. But I wasn't sure if the Entre' would let the digital (or analog for that matter) signal through when it's not on.

I'm asking just in case someone has their's connected this way or has tried it before I take on the task of pulling out my entertainment center (very heavy) and rewiring.

One more thing. :D Should I be getting a digital signal on my receiver when playing MP3s on my Entre'? Because I don't. I know the 5900 outputs MP3s only through analog, but I wasn't sure about the Entre'. Same goes for Internet Radio. I think Slocko asked about Internet Radio a week or two ago, but I never saw an answer.

BTW, It's an old Sony A/V receiver, not a Kenwood in case you were wondering.

Bob

Ken

you are absolutely right, I should not have said "ALL". But I spent over $4,500 for two 5900m's and the entre. It is not performing the taks that I purchased it for, or was promised. I have waited six months and lived through a number of small but irritating problems that this thread helped to resolve. And yes my two players hum at the beginning, middle and end of all my DVD'd and yes on ocassion I get the dreaded can not read error. Than I simply put the DVD in the other player and it usually works.

This problem needs to be settled for but one reason. I will never buy another Kenwood product again if they mislead us. Answer the question and you will not lose customers for good. I have several Kenwood products I am happy with, including these, but let us know so we may decide on things we would like to do with are setups. They should at the least answer the question if they are working on it and if it is doable. I believe it will be a hardware fix, so this might take a longer time to put together(maybe in the form of an Entre 2) but at least let us know.

I purchased these unit for these main reasons. I wanted excellent picture and sound quality, which they have. I wanted to daisy chain three machines to an Entre and use a GUI, If it was only music cd's I wouldn't care. But the movies need the Entre to connect to more than one. For cd's I would just daisy chain them and use Netnamer to upload the info, but for the movies I want the entre. If it isn't going to work as promised I would have gone with a stand alone player like the Denon 3800 or 9000.

Query? Why can't netnamer be adapted for use with DVD's?

in light of how long it's taking to fix the entre, kenwood should have gone for sofware only fixes.

Number one would have been to combine netnamer and media library manager into one that can do dvd lookups. Also, design it so it can be used either on a standalone 5900 or with the entre.

I think there are a lot of people who would be happy using their pcs to manage their collection as long as they can download dvd info and pass it on to their 5900. If they would have done this first before developing the entre, they would have had a very good product and happy users. Then they could have used that knowledge to develop the entre.

What will happen to us entre owners if kenwood introduces a entre ii with all the fixes? Are we just out of luck and have to grin and bear it as we shell out for the new version? I guess at that point it becomes a no brainer to turn to dvdlobby because with the prices of pcs, even if you didn't have one, you would come out ahead.

Originally posted by slocko
What will happen to us entre owners if kenwood introduces a entre ii with all the fixes? Are we just out of luck and have to grin and bear it as we shell out for the new version?

Nope.

Nick :cool:

I recently bought three new dvds to play in my 5900. Blade 2,Monsters Inc,Lord of the Rings. Not one of the three played without stopping and starting. Then it would freeze up alltogether. I woud restart and sometimes it would play the movie through without any trouble.Then I decided to try and play some of the older disc,The Green Mile, same thing happened. Anyone having this problem and what did you do to correct it? Im so tired of all the problems Im having with this player! KENWOOD I WOULD LIKE TO TELL YOU A FEW CHOICE WORDS BUT YOU CAN'T HEAR ANYWAY!

I have had no problems with DVD'd not playing on my changer (5900M), including the ones mentioned in previous posts. I am actually very satisfied with the 5900M unit. The only issues I have are related to the Entre (lack of multi-changer support, lack of DVD support in the Media-Manager, lookup and database issues, etc).

I generally have no problems with the Changer's performance, either. Both the DV-5900M and the DV-5050M are very good performers.

Vaha, check the discs. The 5900 is very sensitive to smudges of any kind, and I've had this happen, and then cured, by simply wiping clean the disc. Don't judge it by how it looks, just wipe it clean (even if it appears that way already) and try again.

Nick :cool:

Vaha,

Once you get one unreadable disc error it usually affects most of the discs it seems. The only solution is to turn the unit off and wait a few hours. I haven't determined how long you have to wait. It could be 10 mins. I don't have the patience, so I just turn it off and hours later try it again.

This hadn't happend to me in months, and then it began happening with a brand new disc, Monster, even though Monster played with no problems 3 times. I also had not removed it from the unit. I turned off the unit overnight and the next day everything worked.

It then happened again with another disc, but that was a used disc so I am sure it was dirty or scratched. Once again, the only thing that fixed it, was to turn it off and wait a few hours.

The problem will manifest itself anytime a dvd freezes. Then the unreadable disc error will take over the unit. At least that has been my experience. Depending on how bad the freeze is, sometimes if you are able to hit stop and break out of it, you can clean it and play if back with no problems.

Kenwood should really look into this problem. It is easily reproducible I think. Just put in a dirty dvd and after it freezes, try to play other dvds.

David Bott's picture in the Kenwood Soverign ad on page 21 of the CEDIA Daily preview magazine, might lead some to question his impartiality :D

Just kidding David.....

Live From CEDIA.....

Floydbob ... Nice huh? :)

Actually, Kenwood wanted my picture. . . then a Cajun woman called and said they wanted a doll with my picture on it.

My side hurts. Wonder what it is?

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by David Bott
Live From CEDIA.....

Floydbob ... Nice huh? :)

Hehehe, well I'll be live from CEDIA on Saturday as an Editor of one of the other HT websites :)

Well it looks like they took your picture in a nice place!

Originally posted by Nicholas
Actually, Kenwood wanted my picture. . . then a Cajun woman called and said they wanted a doll with my picture on it.

My side hurts. Wonder what it is?

Nick :cool:

Not too sure, but do you buzz when you play? If so you only need a little felt in the right places ;)

I have had similar experiences with unreadable discs and freezes....try to stop out of it, clean the disc, power down, etc.

However powering down after one disc froze (Shrek, after playing fine many times) and then powering up resulted in the player asking to remove the disc after power up, which I did....although that was a first. Then when I went to the library, it froze again, left "Library" on the front of the unit but was unresponsive. After powering down and up again the 5900 had lost the memory of ALL DISCS IN THE PLAYER.

I will not recount the restore experience here, it is in the "Reloading DV-5900M Changer Memory--Is there an easy way? " thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123672&highlight=5900)
I had to use Netnamer to re-copy all the discs from the PC to the changer.

Has been fine since. I really hope a firmware upgrade can fix some of these nagging issues.

Hopefully our CEDIA friends will have some info this week.

BJBBJB

netnamer is so poorly documented. I am still waiting for Jeff to tell me how do I reload all my info in netnamer back to the 5900 if i have to re-initialize it. that is my biggest nightmare. one reason i bought the entre was to have it do it automatically if i ever have to reinitialize the 5900. But I would still like to have the 5900 as backup if i ever have to send in the entre for repair (hard drive crash).

BJ it sounds like you had to manually re-enter your dvd info. The copy button didn't work? Also when you first launch netnamer doesn't it read the 5900 and overwrite whatever it had previously? So if you re-iniatilze the 5900 wouldn't it's blank state overwrite netnamer when you launch it?

So if you re-iniatilze the 5900 wouldn't it's blank state overwrite netnamer when you launch it?

No, It won't. I had a similar problem the first week I had my 5900. I had all my titles and tracks stored in the 5900 by Netnamer. Then one night, I was browsing the Library and the changer froze. Had to power it off with the button on front and when I powered it back up, all data was gone. I loaded up Netnamer and selected a disc number in the edit area. Then hit the View button. That loads the info that was saved on your computers hard drive. Then hit Copy, then Save. I did that for each disc. Took a while, but was still faster than having it look them all up on it's own, plus it doesn't have to read each disc again. You can find the files where the info is stored at C:\Program Files\DVD CD Changer Controller\data There are text files for each slot you had a disc in.

I wish there had been a "Restore All" feature where it would have dumped all the info back into the changer at one time. Now that I have an Entre', I wish that Media Manager would allow us to back up this same info just in case. I also wish that the Entre' would copy it's Title and Track info over to the 5900. I like seeing the info in both places.

Bob

thxs Bob. Good to know. What about your groups? How did you restore those?

That's a good question slocko. At the time, I did not have any groups, so it was not an issue. Not until recently have I spent the time dividing my collection into groups.

Does anyone know what the Kenwood URL was for the Entre "what's new" info? I remember a page that had info on what USB keyboards and MP3 players were supported, etc... but I lost the bookmark. Any Kenwood info links on the Entre would be appreciated. Thanks

Right here (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/group_info.jsp?categoryTypeId=130&productId=2357&productTypeId=147).

Thanks for the link Bob. Has anyone tried keyboards other than those Kenwood list as compatible? I want to try to use an Interlink RF wireless keyboard with the entre, which normally connects to PC's via USB. Also, are do any of you happen to be using the RTI Theatertouch programmable remote to run your sovereign system? Last time I checked there were no Sovereign files at Remote Central for the RTI remote.

Good to know. What about your groups? How did you restore those?

You lose all your groups and user files........... I had to "view" each disc with netnamer and copy the title/artist/track info over as Bob mentioned. However the user file and group info does not appear to be stored in netnamer. You have to re-set that up for each disc after you copy over the title and track info.

When you startup netnamer it only PULLS and reads info FROM the 5900, it does not write anything to the changer unless you tell it to....and unfortunately you can only do that one disc at a time.

Slocko, although I could copy and paste my CD's, I had to re-enter most of my DVD titles. Netnamer did not seem to store ALL of the DVD's, so there was nothing there to copy over for most of them(text DVD's were OK). I think what you need to do is enter the DVD info ON BOTH SIDES of the netnamer interface so that it gets saved on both the PC and the 5900. I guess for some reason, the first time I entered them, that was not an intuitive step! Of course for CD's this is not an issue because the title and track info is downloaded from openglobe and therefore saved on the PC.

As my previous post mentioned all the sordid details are in another
thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=123672&highlight=5900)

The scary part about this is that it appears others have this problem of freezing up in the Library..... I hope this gets fixed with a firmware update. I certainly cannot go through this every six months...

BJBBJB

When is the Kenwood CEDIA gathering? I'd like to hear any feedback.

First day of CEDIA was today as far as I understand. Is "no news good news"?? Probably not... From the indications we have got over the last couple of weeks I would be very surprised if Kenwood have any news on the Entre multi-changer issue at this event, but I guess we'll have to wait a little more to be sure.

Originally posted by Lars158

First day of CEDIA was today as far as I understand. Is "no news good news"?? Probably not... From the indications we have got over the last couple of weeks I would be very surprised if Kenwood have any news on the Entre multi-changer issue at this event, but I guess we'll have to wait a little more to be sure.

Look, let's get used to it.

In this very thread, it has been ten months since Kenwood has been saying that "the problem is being looked into." The message, as of just a few days ago, was the exact same thing.

Kenwood has been in open contact with David since the thread began. Recently, Jeff from Kenwood appeared on this thread, and, for the first time, Kenwood had an "official" presence on this thread, and we no longer had to put David in the unseemly position of being the go-between. Coincidentally, this came shortly after Axcess was finally released, and I frankly believe that Kenwood's open presence on this thread was permitted by Kenwood corporate only after they believed that enough goodwill had been achieved by the release of Axcess.

CEDIA was "conveyed" by Kenwood as when we could expect announcement of the upgrade. Just read through this entire thread and see how that was mentioned for months without any attempt by Kenwood to "correct" that perception--until last week, of course, as CEDIA was upon us. Nor could Kenwood claim it was unaware of these expectations, because it has conveyed from the start that it reads the posts on this thread.

Does anyone really believe that Kenwood doesn't yet "know" how to implement a fix? The issue is not "whether" they can figure out a fix. The issue is whether they can do it without losing more money than they want to.

How do I say this? Well, when Kenwood first released Entre, it was marketed--even on its website--as being capable of controlling three changers. Read through this thread and you will see the comments on the evolution of the Kenwood website. It went like this:

1. First it was mentioned as an existing capability of Entre.
2. Second, it was removed from the website.
3. Third, the website was changed from no mention whatsoever, to "coming soon" (that's the way it reads now).

Now, the change to "coming soon" occurred right around the time that we began to hear "CEDIA." Believe me, that would never have been posted to Kenwood's website if Kenwood didn't know that they could fix it.

I don't know how many Entre units Kenwood has sold, but I hate to break this one to you, guys: While Entre is a great product for people like us, it's very offbeat, and probably has not sold much. In fact, while I don't know the serial number system that Kenwood employs, a post not too long ago suggested that a recent purchase had a serial number in the 7000 range. I hope they've sold a lot more than that, but, face it, if they have not, that's going to be plenty of reason for Kenwood to make a corporate decision not to throw good money after bad.

I sure hope that I'm wrong. Please, Kenwood, or anyone from CEDIA tell me that I am. I really like Entre, and don't want to be without it. Something changed from the point that they said "coming soon" on their website, to now. Sounds like an economic change.

So, Kenwood, if a fix will be inconvenient, requiring me to ship something back--I'll do it. If it requires me to unload 500 discs from two units, stack them as I wait weeks for the return of the units--I'll do it. If it requires me, because of your mistake, to reach in my pocket and pay some reasonable amount of money, for all the wrong reasons--I'll do it.

Just announce the fix. If you need to get money, there might be enough people as exasperated as I am to pay it.


Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nicholas

I don't know how many Entre units Kenwood has sold, but I hate to break this one to you, guys: While Entre is a great product for people like us, it's very offbeat, and probably has not sold much. In fact, while I don't know the serial number system that Kenwood employs, a post not too long ago suggested that a recent purchase had a serial number in the 7000 range. I hope they've sold a lot more than that, but, face it, if they have not, that's going to plenty of reason for Kenwood to make a corporate decision not to throw good money after bad.


My dilemma, Kenwood is the most reliable changer out there as far as I can tell. But I'm concerned that you are right. If nothing comes from CEDIA, then there is nothing this year since everything is targeted towards XMAS and they've got to announce now to make it by then.

At the same time, there are few alternatives.

i wouldn't say more reliable. i would say the one with the most potential and with the most capacity.

i haven't had freezes in the library menu, but i don't play cds which seems to be something in common the 3 people it happened to.

Please note....I have removed a post about starting a class action law suite towards Kenwood. I am sorry...but we can not allow this on the AVS Forum site.

Originally posted by David Bott
Please note....I have removed a post about starting a class action law suite towards Kenwood. I am sorry...but we can not allow this on the AVS Forum site.

And I'm glad you removed it (nope, wasn't me . . . ).

Nick :cool:

P.S. (this is an edit). For those, like me, who follow DVD changer events with great interest, I'm glad I didn't go to CEDIA, because it would have been boring. Aside from what we've discussed about what we didn't hear from Kenwood, I'm also beginning to fear that this is a dead market. I had hoped at least for competition. Nothing from Pioneer, nothing from anyone.

Face it, folks, we're a freaky bunch. I fear that Sovereign was the last gasp at this stuff. I really don't understand why, either, as people's collections grow.

It wasn't me either, but to be honest, what's the big deal with a class action law suite against Kenwood?? As far as I am concerned, we have been treated as pices of nothing by Kenwood by misleading us to believe that the multi-changer support will be introduced at one point. To take legal actions at this point I think sounds like a proper step given that Kenwood is unwilling to cooperate or even give any credible information on this topic to users that have spent several $G's on their system. :mad:

Originally posted by Lars158
It wasn't me either, but to be honest, what's the big deal with a class action law suite against Kenwood?? As far as I am concerned, we have been treated as pices of nothing by Kenwood by misleading us to believe that the multi-changer support will be introduced at one point. To take legal actions at this point I think sounds like a proper step given that Kenwood is unwilling to cooperate or even give any credible information on this topic to users that have spent several $G's on their system. :mad:

Lars:

I agree that the subject in general is a logical area of discussion, but what David removed was essentially a solicitation to join a lawsuit. I'm sure the poster was not a lawyer, because there would be problems with such a post professionally if he were.

It's one thing to say War is Hell. It's another to to post army recruiting forms.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nicholas

P.S. (this is an edit). For those, like me, who follow DVD changer events with great interest, I'm glad I didn't go to CEDIA, because it would have been boring. Aside from what we've discussed about what we didn't hear from Kenwood, I'm also beginning to fear that this is a dead market. I had hoped at least for competition. Nothing from Pioneer, nothing from anyone.

Face it, folks, we're a freaky bunch. I fear that Sovereign was the last gasp at this stuff. I really don't understand why, either, as people's collections grow.

Unfortunately I have to agree that this is very disappointing.

I don't agree. There was enough business that Sony, Pioneer, and Kenwood all came out with changers. My problem is that they put too much into them. I don't care about playing MP3 or audio CDs or internet radio. These just drive the cost or complexity up (did someone actually ask for internet radio in their theater without a computer?). My changer is for the theater. I aready have another changer for audio CDs. I care about progressive output, on screen lists, sorted catagories, over-writing text titles, high WAF, and being able to play CD-R and DVD-R. I don't even care about flipping a disc over -- I can buy 2 of them. My pronto can over-ride stupid things like auto-play on powerup.

If no other changer comes out, I may eventually buy the Kenwood. I can live with just my 400 top movies online, I can live with a 4 second pause on layer change. I cannot live unreliable playing, or losing all my catalog info, or a 10+ second pause, or constant waiting on the changer.

There is a market, and someone will eventually meet it. It will really take off when people start filling changers with their own recorded DVDs.

I do worry more about Kenwood's silence that about the bugs in the product. The ReplayTV (and Tivo I believe) forums proved that being honest with users pays off better. The companies were very active on the forums, listened to their users, fix/added features, and did report when "xxx" could not be added or fixed due to hardware or complexity. They were always praised for treating their customers seriously, even when the news wasn't good.

I guess the point is that it is disappointing that we have been misled. The Entre was always ment to have multi-changer support from the information I got when reading the Kenwood marketing (which was a big contributing factor for me getting the system). Also, there was information on this forum a while back that Kenwood had provided indications that the multi-changer support was going to be implemented at one point, but now it appears those indications are no more there. To me it appears Kenwood have abused this forum (David) to play politics for their own business advantage, without taking a stand of making a formal statement on the issue. Shame on Kenwood... :mad:

Originally posted by kbarrett
I don't agree. There was enough business that Sony, Pioneer, and Kenwood all came out with changers. My problem is that they put too much into them. I don't care about playing MP3 or audio CDs or internet radio. These just drive the cost or complexity up (did someone actually ask for internet radio in their theater without a computer?). My changer is for the theater. I aready have another changer for audio CDs. when the news wasn't good.

Well, check out this thread, and look at Denon's response. Sony and Pioneer developed changers a long time ago, and really have come up with nothing new for a while. Denon's response doesn't indicate a current manufacturer interest--by Denon, at least--in the changer market.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=155345

Note DenonJeff's response when I asked whether a changer was in Denon's future:

We have asked for such a product, however my experience on the sales floor and information from our retailers showed it was not a market we needed to be in, sorry to say. And now with hard drive technology coming on strong, yes I know all about copyright issues, does the megachanger have a chance? Don't know.

The CD players you speak of were incredible products, I have 3 connected to an Escient Tunebase, and had a great run even if they were expensive. It is not pssible to convert them to DVD, the players had Dual drives per chasis, without them being major league expensive.

"Does the megachanger have a chance?" It concerned me that the question was even asked. But I can't believe that if Denon is asking the question, other manufacturer's aren't asking it as well.

Nick :cool:

In a response to Denon's reponse...

I have both solutions of sorts: a DV-5900M and a Turtle Beach Audiotron (http://www.audiotron.net).

The Audiotron, while not a classic HD-based audio player, essentially is one: it leverages the hard drives on my LAN and streams them digitally into my home theater. Instead of having its own (limited) hard drive, it finds music anywhere on my LAN and catalogues them, and allows me to manage my playlists like any normal audio device. It also supports Internet Radio. Very nice -- and inexpensive -- unit.

The Audiotron is great for what it does... but in my mind, it DOES NOT replace my DV-5900M. And here's why:

- Fidelity. Most MP3 playback units will suffer from some sort of fidelity hit. Sure, at a 320 rate it may be on par with standard CD quality, but will it exceed CD quality? We all know that great CD players actually seem to exceed what is traditionally known as standard CD quality. BTW, I think the 5900M is a very good CD player. The CDs sound deep and detailed as compared to my stand-only Sony CD player (non-ES).

- Hi-res-audio (DVD-Audio or SACD). C'mon Denon, don't you see that hi-bit-rate discs with 5-channel stereo are the future? Don't you see that record company's profits are tied to formats like DVD-A and SACD that can't be easily "MP3ed"? My Audiotron simply can't come close to my growing library of DVD-A discs.

- DVD-Audio. DVD-A discs and CDs are both audio... and I think they belong is the same library/changer. Why should I have to switch units to listen to 5 channel vs 2 channel audio? Having CDs and DVD-As in the same database is awesome. This is the #1 reason why I bought the 5900M

- Disc storage. The mega changer is a way better place to simply STORE my CD collection! It's so much nicer to look at in my family room than a tall CD rack packed with discs. Way more livable solution.

What the Audiotron does have that makes me ache for in my changer is SPEED and ACCESSIBILITY. If the 5900M were about 3x faster, I would use it even more often to listen to music. Also, if it were easier to listen to music of a certain genre or custom list (like my Audiotron lets me do at a touch of a button!), I would use it much more frequently. UNFORTUNATELY, Kenwood didn't have me on the Usability Team, and thusly we do not have some fundamentally useful features in the OSD of the 5900M that would make this megachanger invaluable and untouchable. Oh, and I submit it would sell 10-fold more units if these features were implemented.

My point of this post is to respond to Denon's thoughts that with HD-based audio on the rise, is there a market for a megachanger? The answer is, YES, if this megachanger can provide the User Experience people expect from an HD-based unit, the added benefits of a megachanger still make it a very marketable technology, IMHO.

How is it the turtle beach can offer such a fantastic product for $300 bucks and the entre costs so much?

Is it the royalties to open globe that drive up the price?

the technology that turtle beach uses to find music on any networked computer must be just as complex as the one used in the entre to read media in the 5900.

maybe turtle beach and kenwood need to form a partnership. it may be the only way that kenwood can compete with a pc based product in the future like dvdlobby. i have a feeling that kenwood is not good at writing software.

one day we will look back and laugh at how quaint the entre was.

The Entre has a harddrive and a cd burner while the Audiotron has neither - that could explain a lot of the price difference. I would consider getting the Entre if they came out with an "Entre Light" version which had features like the Audiotron (without the harddrive and cd burner) and could also control the 5900M (and was priced much less of course).

Motorola has an interesting wireless product like the Audiotron that I just discovered recently: http://www.gi.com/noflash/simplefi.html

The Entre offers a lot of stuff that the Auditron doesn't, so the price difference is understandable. For me the most important aspect is the OSD GUI with cover arts. If the Auditron had that I would get one in a heartbeat...

The entre as a display device only with control of the 5900 would be one great product.

Originally posted by crbaldwin
The Entre has a harddrive and a cd burner while the Audiotron has neither - that could explain a lot of the price difference. I would consider getting the Entre if they came out with an "Entre Light" version which had features like the Audiotron (without the harddrive and cd burner) and could also control the 5900M (and was priced much less of course).

Motorola has an interesting wireless product like the Audiotron that I just discovered recently: http://www.gi.com/noflash/simplefi.html

you sure know how to make me want to spend money :)
that is one cool gadget.

Originally posted by crbaldwin
Motorola has an interesting wireless product like the Audiotron that I just discovered recently: http://www.gi.com/noflash/simplefi.html

i just read at http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2357&productLineId=2

this is the features list of the Entre. See below that under the DVD/CD changer control of the ENTRE is says control of 3 comiong soon.

"KENWOOD SOVEREIGN 400-DISC DVD CHANGER CONTROL
- Aggregates Title Information for GUI Display
- Automatically Collects CD & DVD Title Information (Disc, Track, Chapter) from CDDB and MovieDB Databases
- Controls Transport Functions of up to 3: coming soon

is this new or am I reaching?

I believe it has said that for a while...agree that is sounds promising. Axcess said 'coming soon' as well and it finally came.

BTW, it used to say <grin>:

GENERAL FEATURES
- Controls Kenwood Sovereign 400-Disc DVD Changers [wait it still says that...guess it's how it's interpreted]: via RS-232 Connection


KENWOOD SOVEREIGN 400-DISC DVD CHANGER CONTROL
...
- Controls Transport Functions of up to 3 {period}

Amargiot, its has been in the "coming soon" status for about a year now and no information has been released from Kenwood about the current status on this pending feature.... I guess we all was hoping to hear at least an update at CEDIA, but nope, we are kept in the dark on this one.

Originally posted by Lars158
Amargiot, its has been in the "coming soon" status for about a year now and no information has been released from Kenwood about the current status on this pending feature.... I guess we all was hoping to hear at least an update at CEDIA, but nope, we are kept in the dark on this one.

Not quite . . . it's unfortunately worse than that. My post a few days ago recounts the progress of the Kenwood website. First, about a year ago, when Entre was first released, it said that it was an existing feature.

Then came the surprise--it doesn't control more than one. Now I will grant Kenwood that this was a surprise even to them, because I remember receiving assurance early on, when I first unpacked my Entre, that it did work. That assurance was provided to me by the people at Kenwood technical support. It took about a week for them to realize that it didn't control more than one.

When you think about that . . . it's really sort of shocking. How could Kenwood itself not know?

From that point, and even now with its stony silence, Kenwood has probably been trying hard to get a fix. But Kenwood has manipulated the information on the issue, because when you try to get an answer from Kenwood, you can hear layers change (and, as we know, that's a long silence). :)

You can read in this very thread how I continued to gripe about the fact that it wasn't a feature, and they still touted it as one on the website.

Then they removed it altogether from the website.

Then, probably between 4 and 6 months ago (again, there will be a post on this thread) the "coming soon" language arrived. That was, to my recollection, right around when we began to hear that CEDIA would be the announcement of "the fix."

Keep in mind, Kenwood has let it be known that it reads this board, and if Kenwood wanted to dissuade anyone from believing that CEDIA was the time of the "fix," it could have done so for months. The recent business about "there has never been a press release . . ." is very disingenuous.

Then CEDIA, and here we now are.

The most frustrating part for me has been Kenwood's attitude. In the face of what they know is a major feature promised and sales based on that promise (advertising) they still don't have the decency to comment. Instead, they're quite happy to let rumors fly that promise a solution, so long as they're not attributable to Kenwood.

They need to get their head out of their legal department and deal with us honestly. They owe the people on this thread a real explanation as to what is going to happen or not happen. And then they need to deal with it. This discussion is not going away, whether it happens here or somewhere else, and Kenwood has an obligation if only out of decency to be straight with us. Silence is not being straight, not for this long.

Nick :cool:

Nick, I stand corrected !!

Very well said, you pretty much got it all in your summary.

To me the most frustrating part is the silence and the "coudn't care less about our end consumers" attitude. All I am asking is a status on what's going on. I think we deserve at least that much after spending several $G's on their equipment... but again, I am probably asking too much.

My Current Collection--all shown on the marvelous DVD Profiler. www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias+cavsitrmb

Now wouldn't that be a great GUI for a DVD Changer? Maybe Entre's failings will turn into our ultimate gain.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nicholas
My Current Collection--all shown on the marvelous DVD Profiler. www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias+cavsitrmb

Now wouldn't that be a great GUI for a DVD Changer? Maybe Entre's failings will turn into our ultimate gain.

Nick :cool:

Correct link: www.dvdprofiler.com/mycollection.asp?alias=cavsitrmb

So is that it then? Cedia is over with no announcements of any kind? I own both the 5900 reciever and changer and the Entre and was hoping for some news either good or bad. As with the rest of you my DVD collection is growing. I had to rip all cds to mp3 in order to remove them from the changer because I needed the room. I just hope something definite either way is stated soon.

Even if Entre never works with more than one changer, we know that it works well with one changer.

Now, if that change never occurs, Entre is unfortunately headed for obsolescence in at least one major way: As DVD collections grow, more and more people will ultimately be stuck with using Entre with only "part" of their system. That alone will spell its eventual extinction.

Let's say that Entre gets discontinued. Now, we know that OpenGlobe is a separate service, and that it identifies itself as a "partner" with Kenwood, among others. Even if Entre were discontinued, we would expect OpenGlobe to still be around. To the extent that people desired, they presumably could continue to use their Entre units, if, I guess, OpenGlobe permitted it.

So, if it does get discontinued, where from a technical standpoint would that leave an Entre owner? (I'm not raising issues of warranty, return, etc., I'm assuming that the owner wants to keep it).

1. Could we assume that, since Entre has internet connectivity, OpenGlobe would just remain available?

2. Would we expect that OpenGlobe would be in a position then to charge a subscription fee (which could happen anyway, I suppose . . . )?

3. Is there an issue of online support (other than software updates . . . which would end) that we would need from Kenwood in order to maintain the system? Or could we just expect the system to still work as it does, even if it becomes a "former" product?

Perhaps there are licensing issues, but, from a from a more basic standpoint, I just want to know if it would still work. Or are there technical reasons that its discontinuance would mean that it would not work any longer?

Thanks.

Nick :cool:

If they discontinue the product perhaps we could find some way to get them to open up the source and let the user community invest in getting the thing to live up to its potential. Works real well in the tivo community.

On another track, is there any way to more formally communicate our exaspiration to Kenwood and get them to at least be frank with us as to what the problem is, and when, if at all, it will be fixed.

They almost have a great product, but continuing like this will damage their reputation and doom them to returning to their historical "mid-fi" niche.

I'm not placing any bets.

Anyone heard from Jeff lately?

OK, obviously Kenwood has not intention of revealing what they are going to do about the multi-changer function. Their failure to respond in any way is not a good sign.

One company that clearly continues to support is customers is Philips. Check out their new iPronto. This looks like one of the most promising new controllers on the market. Philips has also supported its products with new downloads, editing programs, firmware updates, etc. Someone here needs to buy it and see if they can adapt it to the multichangers (get rid of the entre, daisy chain three 5900's and see if the iPronto can be used to store, catalog, and control DVD collection.) Hey David, maybe you can get Philips to give you one to experiment with.

Ok . . . but that's the point of my question: Let's forget about trying to get an answer from Kenwood. Let's assume the worst. Let's assume that Kenwood no longer makes Entre, they no longer support Entre . . . that it is discontinued.

Is the box called Entre still of any use? Can it be used for the purposes that we are now using it--to control one changer, download cover art, get internet radio? Or does the continued viability of using Entre depend on whether Kenwood continues to "support" it with OpenGlobe?

Are there any technical reasons why a discontinued product (like Entre could become) can't be used in the same way it is now being used. That's my question.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by zinja
OK, obviously Kenwood has not intention of revealing what they are going to do about the multi-changer function. Their failure to respond in any way is not a good sign.

One company that clearly continues to support is customers is Philips. Check out their new iPronto. This looks like one of the most promising new controllers on the market. Philips has also supported its products with new downloads, editing programs, firmware updates, etc. Someone here needs to buy it and see if they can adapt it to the multichangers (get rid of the entre, daisy chain three 5900's and see if the iPronto can be used to store, catalog, and control DVD collection.) Hey David, maybe you can get Philips to give you one to experiment with.

I'm with you. But it seems to me that the necessary predicate to what we want is for DVD Lobby to work, i.e., to work as a graphic user interface with DVD Profiler, to control our changers. Then, if that get make its way onto the i-Pronto . . . best solution yet.

One thing at a time, though. Mario Cascio is working hard at making a seamless integration of DVD Lobby and DVD Profiler 2.0, and then on to the changer control. Then, by the way, it doesn't matter what the brand of changer (I think), although the 5900 remains attractive to me nonetheless because of its DVD-A capability.

Nick :cool:

I don't think it matters what changer you use, but changers with rs232 connections can be controlled directly instead of using IR if a program exists to send commands to the player.

By the way, can DVD Profiler put a stop to Mario's efforts? Does DVDProfiler give you the rights to use their data in any way you see fit?

Originally posted by slocko
I don't think it matters what changer you use, but changers with rs232 connections can be controlled directly instead of using IR if a program exists to send commands to the player.

By the way, can DVD Profiler put a stop to Mario's efforts? Does DVDProfiler give you the rights to use their data in any way you see fit?

It sure sounds as if he has the blessing of DVD Profiler. But . . . .why would DVD Profiler want to stop DVD Lobby? It seeks to use DVD Profiler, which will only give it more exposure.

Our problems are going to be soon solved. But, perhaps, it won't be with the product we thought it would.

Nick :cool:

I presently have two 5050's and use my Pronto along with a program called SuperNudelist, which generates panels for my Pronto to display my discs by title and genre', it works flawlessly and overcomes the inherent problems of the Kenwood not to aggregate data across multiple changers. I also use it to manage my MP3 collection. If anyone is interested in looking at my CCF leave me a PM and I will email it to you. For those of you not familiar with the Pronto a CCf is a configuration file for the Pronto and requires ProntoEdit or Tonto to view and use it.


Tom

Originally posted by b00bie
I presently have two 5050's and use my Pronto along with a program called SuperNudelist, which generates panels for my Pronto to display my discs by title and genre', it works flawlessly and overcomes the inherent problems of the Kenwood not to aggregate data across multiple changers. I also use it to manage my MP3 collection. If anyone is interested in looking at my CCF leave me a PM and I will email it to you. For those of you not familiar with the Pronto a CCf is a configuration file for the Pronto and requires ProntoEdit or Tonto to view and use it.

Tom

Pronto is great, and certainly if we have to, we can manage our changers accordingly. What's important to the owners of Entre is the color/menu/graphic art interface that's on screen. That's something we're trying to preserve.

In the event that DVD Lobby works with DVD Profiler, that will be a lot closer to what Entre owners have become accustomed. If Entre gets discontinued, I'm sure the Pronto solution will become a regular one.

Nick :cool:

Hi All,
I had received permission from Intervocative (DVDProfiler) when we started the first version of DVDLobby Pro. I've since been in contact (this past month) with them hoping to build a tighter relationship because I do believe DVDLobby Pro adds a lot to their current software and it just helps to sell it.

The new version of DVDLobby Pro 2.0 (not yet available) is already successfully reading the new DVDProfiler 2.0 XML export file along with sorting of some of the more common fields.

There's a great opportunity for new users to help mold DVDLobby Pro 2.0 with features they either really like or would like to see. If there's something you wish you could do that you currently can't with your existing system, let us know and we'll try to work it in. Here's a link to a thread going on where you can let us know what you'd like to see. Click here. (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?s=&threadid=165884)

We're also working on adding more bells and whistles such as rotating lights around the movie poster image, new themes, animated graphics, add your own Genre, favorites, etc.

Here's a screen shot of just one of the 20+ background skins from DVDLobby Pro 1.21:
http://www.webpromotion.com/cinemar/images/320screenshot_dvdlobby04.jpg

Hello everyone-
I just wanted to take a moment to say "Thanks" for all your comments on the Sovereign system over the past year. I assure you that your comments are not being ignored, and are being passed on to the people at Kenwood that can actually make some of the suggested changes.
Perhaps most importantly, I wanted to thatnk you for bearing with me over the past few weeks. I honestly had no idea what to expect from the forum, and fear that I may have been more of a disruptive element than an assistance due to my inexperience in posting to groups such as this one.
With that said, I wish you all the best, and will be attempting to address all your questions and comments...
Cheers
Jeff

:)

Jeff are you going away? Are they locking you up in a white room with a special shirt? :)

Jeff, most of us here are power users and have figured out all the easy things. If you were expecting to come in here and answer beginner questions, then I can see how you might have been surprised :)

As my posts might indicate, I have my doubts about the viability of Entre. Forget about whether it will get upgraded. I wonder whether the plug will get pulled on it (sorry, Kenwood, I'm just the umpire--only calling balls and strikes).

I don't have the same doubts about the changers. Even without Entre, and even with their ergonomic problems, the changers are good performers, and you can hook three together. Silly UI, but the vital signs remain good.

Now, as a current Entre owner, I can take several routes if Kenwood does discontinue. I can complain, formally or informally, and, at the very least, return the product and be refunded. For that matter, I can do that right now. Of that I am reasonably certain.

Or, if Entre gets discontinued, I can buy a few more.

I'm not kidding here. If it gets discontinued, the price of existing units will plummet. If they start to get scavenged at a few hundred dollars apiece, I might be tempted to buy two more, and get my three changer control--one Entre per unit. I'd have to use an IR router to eliminate remote control confusion, and I'd have to do something about video switching from unit to unit; I invite comment on the internet connectivity issues, but I suspect it could be done.

That's why I asked earlier about whether Entre's discontinuance would prompt its obsolescence.

I'm sure my questions in this regard do not warm the cockles of Kenwood's heart, but I really mean no offense; actually, I mean praise. I like Entre, and I like it a lot. I like it enough to spend some extra money on Entre units--if the price was right, and if they worked, even when Entre got discontinued.

So, I'll ask again: If Entre gets discontinued, does anyone know if that would be a reason it would no longer work?

Nick :cool:

Nick, as I see it, if the entre gets discontinued, the relationship with openglobe will probably be adversely effected. I am sure that Kenwood pays a licensing fee to openglobe to get access, and lack of Kenwood support most likely would mean that we lose access to openglobe for DVD access. That would clearly not be good. More importantly, if openglobe upgrades its product, but entre is not upgraded by Kenwood, oops there goes the interface. Either way, without the openglobe interface you have a nice cd ripper, but not much else.

Interestingly, regardless of how simple the current GUI is for the standalone changers, they work for the multichangers. Kenwood could pay the licensing fee for DVD access (like they do with CD's) and there you go, not pretty, but 1,200 DVD's in one interface.

Zinja,

I may be wrong here... but I thought I was pretty sure that even the 5900Ms' stand-alone interface only manages that units' library. The "3 changer" control aludes to the fact that you can daisy-chain component input and audio, and the fact that you have 3 changer buttons on the remote control. But, I still think you have to flip through three different libraries to access all 1200 discs.

Can someone confirm that my assumptions are correct here?

350 discs and growing...

I think Jon is correct. That behavior was reported in this thread or the other. It doesn't aggregate the 3 changers into one list. YOu have the choose the player to see what movies are loaded on that player. Clearly defeats the purpose of daisy chaining since you will never remember which player a disc is in.

Does anyone know which way to load a widescreen movie if the disc has standard on one side and widescreen on the other? widescreen facing left or right?

my player began playing Iron Giant at 6am morning. Scared the crap out of me. Don't understand what happened. That was the last movie the kids watched last night but I distinctly remember the kenwood logo on the screen before I switched the tv to satellite.

I can only think of two possibilities. My wife accidently put the remote in dvd mode and hit play. The dvd stayed in the menu for hours and hours and finally decided to play at 6am. Highly unlikely sceneario.

Power went out at 6am and the last disc began playing automatically when it came back. I like that one, but I don't find any sign of a power outage. If did, it must have been isolated to that particular circuit in the house.

It doesn't aggregate the 3 changers into one list.


I remember researching this before I bought the 5900. There is only one GUI through the main changer, however I remember seeing pictures of tabs at the top of the gui like a windows folder that say something like "sub2, sub3" if you have multiple changers attached.

Picking a "sub" activates that page, and then you can perfrom searches, etc. on that page as a standalone player.

Of course the big downside is that it does NOT aggregate or allow searches across all 2 or 3 changers you may have connected. On the upside you get one gui screen and audio/video is routed through one output, and the IR commands are routed to the right player.

BJB

Hopefully this is not like the picture of movie sypnosis on the main screen of the entre that they show in the manual :)

Maybe Jeff can comment on this?


Originally posted by BJBBJB


however I remember seeing pictures of tabs at the top of the gui like a windows folder that say something like "sub2, sub3" if you have multiple changers attached.


BJB

Slocko,

Since the changer stipulates that you face the "label" of the disc to the right, you would want the widescreen side of the disc (the side you want read by the laser) facing the left.

Jon, are you sure about that ? I am almost certain that I normally put the "widescreen" label up on a normal player and toward the right on the 5900M to get the format correct...

Lars158,

Let me start off by saying that I'm not sure about anything! With that said, here's how I came to that conclusion:

Since you insert discs with the label to the right, that tells me that the opposite side is the side being read by the laser.
So,
LEFT SIDE: DATA (read by laser)
RIGHT SIDE: LABEL (not read by laser)

If you have a 2-sided disc and you want the widescreen side to be read, I would insert the disc so that:
LEFT SIDE: Widescreen version (read by laser)
RIGHT SIDE: PAN'n'SCAN version (not read by laser)

This seemed logical to me until I just thought about it a bit further. And Lars158, you're right, and I was wrong...and here's why:

Because the side that has "widescreen" on it is actually the pan-and-scan version on it! If a user inserts a disc into a normal player with the "Widescreen" text facing up, the bottom side is being read, and is the widescreen version.

So, allow me to reverse my statement:

SLOCKO -- you want the widescreen label facing the RIGHT!

thxs guys. It makes sense. Widescreen atually contains the data on the same side.

I guess I have been watching the wrong side with these double sided discs!!!!! This is where the entre would come in handy. Does it tell you if a disc is double sided? I need to revisit all my double sided discs now.

Originally posted by slocko
thxs guys. It makes sense. Widescreen atually contains the data on the same side.

I guess I have been watching the wrong side with these double sided discs!!!!! This is where the entre would come in handy. Does it tell you if a disc is double sided? I need to revisit all my double sided discs now.

This is a case where the flip-disk button may actually be useful - I don't own any "flippers".

Ken

Originally posted by zinja
Nick, as I see it, if the entre gets discontinued, the relationship with openglobe will probably be adversely effected. I am sure that Kenwood pays a licensing fee to openglobe to get access, and lack of Kenwood support most likely would mean that we lose access to openglobe for DVD access. That would clearly not be good. More importantly, if openglobe upgrades its product, but entre is not upgraded by Kenwood, oops there goes the interface. Either way, without the openglobe interface you have a nice cd ripper, but not much else.

Interestingly, regardless of how simple the current GUI is for the standalone changers, they work for the multichangers. Kenwood could pay the licensing fee for DVD access (like they do with CD's) and there you go, not pretty, but 1,200 DVD's in one interface.

I'd bet the more likely scenario is that individual owners would have the option of paying the OpenGlobe fee themselves. By the way, I always expected that the "free" OpenGlobe would one day convert into a subscription, once enough people "realized" how much they wanted it.

Note the absence of any objection at the idea that Entre will get discontinued.

Nick :cool:

Does anyone have any insight into Sovereign sales overall? I wonder how well the Entre and the Changers are selling?

I've said it here before, and I'll say it again: If Kenwood would have fixed some of the UI missteps in the 5900M, they would have doubled their sales, if not 5 fold. Grass-roots word would have gone out that this was the changer to have.

Too many users like me would warn people they care about about the problems associated with the changer before recommending it. That cool evangelism translates into cool sales.

It brings up the question as to how viable Escient Technologies (Owner of Openglobe, etc.) is. Its hard to tell without running a Dunn and Bradstreet.

As far as I can tell, it is privately held and there is no easy way as to tell how its doing economically.

Originally posted by slocko
I guess I have been watching the wrong side with these double sided discs!!!!! This is where the entre would come in handy. Does it tell you if a disc is double sided? I need to revisit all my double sided discs now.
You might want to check out DVD Profiler (http://www.dvdprofiler.com). That software is linked to an online database of user contributions which (among other things) includes a checkbox to tell you if the DVD is a "flipper" or not. You can use the free version to get this information. If you like the high-res cover scans and the no-advertising option, you can register for a modest fee.

I'm not affiliated with Intervocative. Just a satisfied user. And I'll admit that it would be nice if this was linked into the Entre.

I second the previous comment about DVD Profiler - a great product !!!

I have never been more satisfied. If we could just get transport control functions added (for Kenwood multi changers) I would be a very happy man. I suppose there is a chance that DVD Lobby will do just that...

I agree that DVD profiler is a great tool. I noticed that DVDProfiler claims plug in support.

It would be fantastic if someone could do a plug-in to control multiple Kenwood changers using the Profiler collection number as some kind of slot/changer id (since we can edit that field).

I understand that quite a bit of work has been done to reverse engineer the serial command strings, without Kenwood's support. Perhaps, if they monitor this forum, they would publish the command sequence documentation.

Unless doing so shows why multichanger support doesn't work. ie. some bugs in the serial command pass through for name insertion and extraction, and that is why they keep the info locked up.

However, even if that is the case, I would not object to using 2 serial ports to control my 2 changers without using the serial daisy chain. For a third changer I suppose I could buy an add on serial card.

Unless doing so shows why multichanger support doesn't work. ie. some bugs in the serial command pass through for name insertion and extraction, and that is why they keep the info locked up.

Interesting theory. There is some information and a program available. I have tried using this, but it's not reliable - sometimes it works, sometimes not. I believe the program's author, Larry Rowland, gave up on it himself and is using IR control (so am I). See http://www.gadgetland.net/chgctrl/ .

It's interesting that the serial port commands do include a unit number, so it looks like it may be possible to to use multiple serial ports or a hardware "repeater" or splitter to send the same commands to all changers, assuming that they each only respond to commands with the the corresponding unit number. Or a circuit with an input and three output serial ports with a simple microprocessor doing the switching. After all, as minimal as it is, the NetNamer program does work.

I'm still hopeful (15 discs until mine fills up). I think I read a way to control multiple changers with the remote, so it may be possible use an IR solution with a PC - gotta use the old ones for something, right? I'm currently using an IR Linc from SmartHome.

For anyone interested in the 5900 RS232 protocol information, I have posted the full documentation that Kenwood provided to P3 partners at:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/nirvislist/files/rs232-dv5900m.doc

(This was the easiest place to put the file that was still relevant to all parties).

The documentation DOES provide all information concerning multiple changer control and access to all features available.

If anyone has a similar document for the RS232 command set for the VR5700/VR5900 receivers I would be extremely greatful if you would pass it along to me.

Enjoy.

MediaStorm

Larry didn't actually give up on the RS232 control out of difficulty of implementation but rather difficulty (read as EXTREMELY time consuming) efforts required to reverse engineer the unpublished protocol information.

I have since then provided him with the full RS232 docs (see previous post if you want a copy for yourself) and I don't think he has had any free time to do anything with it yet.

He's got several irons in the fire (see http://www.gadgetland.net for a list) so I'm not surprised that we haven't seen anything from him as he has been quite consumed with other projects.

I don't understand why Kenwood thinks that keeping the protocol information a secret works to their benefit (OK, for the 5900 multi-changer issue it does raise some questions about why a fix for the Entre doesn't exist yet ) but maybe someday they will understand the positive benefits of providing the info to developers. If they don't it is only a matter of time before another manufacturer does figure it out and understands the positive impact that providing the information has on overall sales.

Has anyone had a problem with the changer being overly noisy?
It seems to happen only on DVD's not on CD's

Mr. Integration, there are a number of posts here about a vibration problem that a number of people have experienced. In many instances it starts out at the initial startup of the DVD and either stops after a few minutes into the movie, or in my case both hum from beginning to end. There is apparently a support member in the back of the unit that is touching something. The fix is to take it back to a qualified dealer, that knows of the problem so that they can attach a small felt pad to the crossmember, or open it yourself (can you say void your warranty), or just live with the noise.

Mr. Integration, there are a number of posts here about a vibration problem that a number of people have experienced. In many instances it starts out at the initial startup of the DVD and either stops after a few minutes into the movie, or in my case both hum from beginning to end. There is apparently a support member in the back of the unit that is touching something. The fix is to take it back to a qualified dealer, that knows of the problem so that they can attach a small felt pad to the crossmember, or open it yourself (can you say void your warranty), or just live with the noise.

Mr. Integration, there are a number of posts here about a vibration problem that a number of people have experienced. In many instances it starts out at the initial startup of the DVD and either stops after a few minutes into the movie, or in my case both hum from beginning to end. There is apparently a support member in the back of the unit that is touching something. The fix is to take it back to a qualified dealer, that knows of the problem so that they can attach a small felt pad to the crossmember, or open it yourself (can you say void your warranty), or just live with the noise.

I don't see why Kenwood can't just make a serial splitter like this (http://harbourtownsales.site.yahoo.net/db9sersplit.html) except with 3 connections that we plug into our Entre' and simply connect each changer to it. When a command is sent by the Entre' to play/stop or whatever, it would go to all changers connected, but only the correct changer designated by the Main/Sub 1/Sub 2 switch would respond because the signal would differ slightly from the other 2. All done in software in the Entre' that should be easily implemented.

I think someone screwed up at the drawing board and forgot 1 of 2 things. Either the Entre' should have had 2 more serial ports or the changers themselves needed 1 more serial port to pass through the data down the chain.

Maybe I'm over simplifying things because I'm a computer geek, but come on, it's just a simple serial connection and some software updates. Seems like this could have been fixed ages ago.

Bob

Maybe there is no way for the Changers to realize which one is meant for them? I don't know but this sounds like logical fix but for some reason they have gone this way. That is what I thought they would do at first. Or send all the signals thru a usb to serial adapter they could easily program to take the signal and send it out independently to as many changers as they want.

the entre also needs to know which changer sent back data. i imagine that the entre has to send a signal to a changer to read new discs, the changer then has to load the disc, scan it, and send that data back so the entre can do the lookup.

It can probably work, but I am betting that would be an entire re-write of the entre software. Then again, it's been a year so they could have done it by now.

Professing as much technical inadeptness as possible . . .

I read that Kenwood had released the RS-232 codes for the changers. Two questions:

1. Could this help the public at large solve the problem?

2. If not, what help is it to us to have the codes released I know there's a benefit, but is it just that it will now work with Crestron systems?

Nick :cool:

Nick,

It's important to note that Kenwood did NOT release the codes to the public at large and still refuses to do so. The document I posted was produced by the third party company who did the development for Kenwood.

I doubt they will be very happy once they find out it is in the 'wild' but time will tell.

For those who have not seen the document yet, nearly every command has a CHNO parameter which specifies which changer the command should be sent to. The values are:
1> Main
2> Sub1
3> Sub2

It looks like the Entre problem communicating with multiple 5900's is due to problems with the Entre itself and not based on issues with the 5900 protocol. Maybe someone with multiple 5900's could whip up a quick and dirty application to test this theory and see if multiple changers do indeed work correctly on the 5900 alone.

I've only got one 5900 myself so I can't test this with 100% accuracy to verify exactly where the problem is. All indications lean towards it being an issue with the Entre and not the 5900.

Hopefully someone can test this theory and let us all know for sure.

Like Nick, I find it amazing that kenwood could have overlooked something as basic as testing multi-changer support.

Was the project way behind and the senior engineer said let's release it and cross that bridge when we get to it?

Do you need multiple 5900s to test it, or just multiple Sovereign changers? I've got the 5900, which is daisy chained to a 5050M. Either can be controlled by Entre, and my "sub1" is the 5050M. This is also its designation on the Kenwood Remote, for daisy chaining purposes.

If someone can walk me through any solution they come up with, I might be willing to test it on my daisy chained duo.

Nick :cool:

In regards to testing, I dont see where you actually need 2 or 3 units to test serial commands. Set the particular unit to Main, Sub1, or Sub2, and start sending commands based on all three settings, and see if the unit reacts to proper unit commands, or if it responds to all the commands (that would be very bad!).

The problem I see with a 'serial splitter' as Bob mentioned above isnt in the sending of commands to the changers, but the receiving of commands from the changers. Do the changers send a signal back to the Entre on every command (whether it is destined for that changer or not)? What I mean is, does Sub1 send a confirmation it received a command for Main to play a disc, but because its not the Main unit, it wont do anything. If this is the case, a splitter wont work, because you will have multiple changers sending signals back at the same time, ultimately onto 1 serial port.

Another problem on this same line of thought, is if you were setting up 2 new changers at once, loading them, and then having the changers trying to both send lookup data back to 1 serial port. The way I see it, the only real solution will be additional serial ports from the USB ports, so the Entre (or any device for that matter) can send all Main commands out COM1, Sub1 out to COM2, and Sub2 out to COM3.

But hey, what the heck do I know? :) (obviously not much for those of you that caught the bad spelling error I just had to fix! Me speak english can!)

Seems to me some computer geek, with way too much time on his/her hands, needs to write a computer program to link DVDprofiler and the multi-changers (with the codes that were not released, but are now in the"wild"). I, for one, would be willing to pay a reasonable fee for such a program. After all, I can go out and buy a cheap computer, slap in a cd/dvd writer, ethernet, tv out graphics card, large hard drive and then I guess I have an entre like machine for half the price. Do you think Kenwood would refund me the price I paid for their overpriced underperforming computer clone that lacks real support. Or am I just whistling (or something) in the wind.

Jeff, should I manaully load my second 5900m with the 200+ dvd's that don't fit in the first 5900m that is full already. Or should I wait for a fix from Kenwood, because manully loading 200+ DVD's is time consuming, and the reason I purchased the entre and two 5900m's in the first place.

Perhaps Mario (of DVD Lobby) can be the one that Zinja requests. Although I wouldn't call anyone with such a solution a geek :) However, I too will pony up money for the following:

A computer program that permits me to control my Kenwood daisy-chained changers (NOTE PLURAL: CHANGERS) from my Computer, WITH DVD PROFILER. By that, I mean that I want DVD Profiler to "be" the user interface with the changers.

Zinja, I already have over 100 discs loaded into my second changer, and I've entered them. There's an annoying feature in the menu of "sub1" changer that indiscriminately wipes out the information once you've entered it. When you begin to do this, you're going to get more upset over the lack of Entre multichanger support. World of difference.

P.S. I don't think Jeff is hanging around to answer any more questions. Rough crowd.

Nick :cool:

Entre not so simple
There have been comparisons to the Entre with some other HT internet devices which are much cheaper. They play i-radio and play mp3 music. I don't recall if any had harddrives or just used what was on the network. Some say it doesn't need a harddisk. Many more would complain if it didn't have a hard disk.

Seriously now for those just using the Entre for a DVD/CD menu (me mostly but I have one Axcess now) then it is easy to over look the other things it does but you really should show a bit more respect to the other things it does even if you don't use them. After all that was all part of the overall design of the Sovereign system. Remember that you can connect 4 Axcess devices to the Entre and stream mp3/i-radio to each of them at the same time and play the Entre. What compares to that? 5 PCs I suppose.:rolleyes: The Entre also downloads the Axcess software updates for each of those and distributes it to them when they 'login'. It seems to me KW/OG went to a lot of design and engineering trouble to get this to all work....as part of the Sovereign system...ease of use for much larger customer base than power users.

The KW/OG engineers have to be really biting their tongues when they listen to us oversimplify the Entre and whole Sovereign line. I bet we can barely imagine the hurdles they had to jump through and bugs they had to resolve.


Multi-changer support
Certainly most admit (and have) that our need for multi-changer support is for a small customer base and it's been admitted that other companies are not jumping up and down to provide this. What is trying to be accomplished with the rehashing of same old information and bashing of KW/OG engineers? Is this a way of motivating them? You guys are probably hurting our cause more then helping it at this point.

Of course we would like some news one way or another on this. Jeff has already stated a time or two that our concerns have been given to the people that can make a difference. Priorities, resources, cost, etc, etc.

Absolutely there are many things we wish for in the Entre and 5900 (and I've complained myself regularly) but overall a pretty good system and we can bet most users are pretty happy with it. :eek: (me I'm fairly happy but still buying more DVDs on my way to 401). I hope you guys never get to 1201 because then we have to start another thread...:D

Nick,

I've got most of a bridge app done that will fully control the 5900. Until they release the SDK for DVD Profiler 2 there is not much chance it will be used as the 'front' end. DVD Lobby would certainly work as well as others.

The bridge app will handle the hard work back and forth and can also be used via ActiveX so all options are open if you want to do any additional fun stuff on your own.

I'm waiting on getting my 5900 through the service center before the bridge app is completed but it is coming very soon.

It should work straight away with DVD Lobby or ActiveX with DVD Profiler direct support, Premise Systems SYS support and a few other interfaces in the future.

Originally posted by ScottF200
Entre not so simple

Seriously now for those just using the Entre for a DVD/CD menu (me mostly but I have one Axcess now) then it is easy to over look the other things it does but you really should show a bit more respect to the other things it does even if you don't use them.

The KW/OG engineers have to be really biting their tongues when they listen to us oversimplify the Entre and whole Sovereign line. I bet we can barely imagine the hurdles they had to jump through and bugs they had to resolve.

Hi, Scott.

Scott, as a consumer, once I've paid for the product that the manufacturer agreed to sell me, and one of its essential aspects is failing--expansion is that essential aspect--I get to make the choice as to what I want to respect or not about the product. I have always believed that Entre is a great product, but that's like saying Titanic was a great boat.

It is not overstatement to say that failure to offer multichanger support will sink Entre. To say that we should respect its other virtues is to say, forget about that leak the iceberg just ripped into the ship, and admire the marvelous features of the luxury liner.

Multi-changer support

Certainly most admit (and have) that our need for multi-changer support is for a small customer base and it's been admitted that other companies are not jumping up and down to provide this. What is trying to be accomplished with the rehashing of same old information and bashing of KW/OG engineers? Is this a way of motivating them? You guys are probably hurting our cause more then helping it at this point.

I could not disagree with you more. I say that every person that bought a Sovereign Product, including changers, receivers, and Entre, is affected by this. Entre is at the heart of the Sovereign control scheme. Just look at how it's supposed to be used (for whatever you deem important), and look at how it's marketed. Even if you just bought a changer, with the idea that one day you'd buy an Entre, your choice is affected if Entre fails.

How many people do you think bought Entre for internet radio and Axcess? Don't you think that just about everyone that's purchased it has also purchased a changer? There's no one that I've seen on this forum that's not in that category.

If you bought an Entre, and a changer, you're headed one day for my situation: Switching between the glitzy Entre, and the clunky user interface of the changer. And, by the way, you have to turn the Entre off (to get to your Sub1 changer) and on (if you want to go back to Main changer) . . . and you will be there with disc 401. It is not a "fun" product to use in its present condition, and every owner of a changer and an Entre is inevitably headed for my situation. What's that called? It's called a collision course (dare I say "iceberg"?)

Of course we would like some news one way or another on this. Jeff has already stated a time or two that our concerns have been given to the people that can make a difference. Priorities, resources, cost, etc, etc.

Absolutely there are many things we wish for in the Entre and 5900 (and I've complained myself regularly) but overall a pretty good system and we can bet most users are pretty happy with it. :eek: (me I'm fairly happy but still buying more DVDs on my way to 401). I hope you guys never get to 1201 because then we have to start another thread...:D

Well, Scott . . . if you can show me one time that Jeff didn't evade the question of whether multichanger support would definitely be there in the future, it just amounts to timing, I might be more inclined to that position. Fact is, however, that Jeff works for Kenwood, and Kenwood, the corporation that manufactured the product , is the one that's got to come through.

I once owned a very nice processor called a Citation 7.0. In its day, it was the best. For over a year, I waited for the "digital upgrade" that was promised. Many others waited with me. Citation was ditched by Harman a long time ago, and I suppose there are people still waiting.

It is now about a year. That's when we ordered our Entres, and, yes, we know what Kenwood said about it then: Multichanger support was already there. Consumer electronics is a bastion of failed promises, and the refrain of "more time needed" is what every one of them said that promised something and didn't deliver. So, unless you can show me why Kenwood deserves some special trust, I will continue to be a passenger who never finds it inappropriate when, in the face of the grandeur of the Great Ship, continues to ask about that large leak.

Kindest regards.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

Well stated...

It's like telling someone "It's OK, my wife only cheated on me once." <g>

At the risk of sounding contentious, Either AVSForum really doesn't matter much in the scheme of things or Kenwood really is acting atrociously here.

If all the complaints on this forum mattered, Kenwood would have been forced to explain something to its customers. Even if they decided NOT to do fix the Entre problem, they would have been forced to explain themselves.

However, this utter lack of anything from them, again, either means that Kenwood is not customer-focused, and therefore will drown with the other mediocre companies that just 'don't get it' -- or AVSForum really doesn't matter, and speaking up here is akin to talking to the wind.

And what happened to Dave Bott's frequent updates from Kenwood, all but promising hardware mods to the Entre in the near future? Was Dave suckered in by Kenwood, now left hanging to dry?

Just wonderin'

In considering multichanger support, while it is true that not too many folks out there have over 400 dvd's, BUT, when you consider that this is an integrated a/v player, when you add in cd's (store bought) and cd-r/w's with mp3 is is not unreasonable to believe that many Entre users WILL quickly grow to need multichanger support.

Also, Entre, by definition, appeals to all of us on the 'lunatic fringe' AKA early adopters who often are the all important 'advisors-brand specifiers' to our less techie firends. As such, an overly large percentage of us either have, or will have, more than 400 DVD/CD/CDRW's.

Kenwood's 'ostrich' mentality, IMHO, will doom the Soverign series. How can we trust them? What will we tell our firends? It won't be good, even though the product is soooooo close to being great.

Early adopters understand that there will be bugs, we accept that with the 'job description.' With open communication from the vendor, we become a part of the product development process and often BOND to the brand. Just look at other brand/product forums here like the Holo3d, Leeza, ... etc. We don't expect the products to be perfect. And with good communication from the vendor we often start a love affair with the product and its supplier (untill the next best thing comes onto the scene!)

Kenwood, listen up, fess up, do the right thing, or concentrate exclusively on the Auto Radio market.



As to a DVDProfiler plug in for multi changer control. AMEN! It's worth money to me! If it worked, I would be willing to pay over $100!

Scott, when I purchase a product for a specific purpose (multi-changer control), and I am led to believe that it either did or would shortly be able to perform the functions for which I purchased it, I expect the company to fulfull its promises. I really don't give two hoots and a holler if is controls 4 axcess modules - I did not buy it for that purpose (not did the company tell me that it would support axcess when I made my purchase). I also don't care if it rips cd's and converts to mp3. For that function, I could buy a really nice top of the line pc with all the bells and whistles for the price I paid for the entre alone. If Kenwood doesn't want to hear my whining, complaining, sour grapes (or whatever anyone wnats to call it when a promise is made and than broken) than they can do one of two things, either make good on their advertising (by the way Philips replaced my DVD 208 with their new DVD 228 when they realized that the first generation DVD recorder was not able to record +R as advertised) or they can cheerfully refund me my money. I do not consider the addition of other bells and whistles as a reason to forego why I purchased their prodcuts in the first place. Sorry if you think I am scaring Kenwood away, but they have a corporate responsibilty to their early adopter client (who pay extra to be the first to have the first generation product and which everyone knows will be buggy). So far they aint stepped up to the plate. Damm Nick, you sure do write purty. Also my aplogies to any geeks that may have taken offense to my earlier post.:p

Mediastorm:

Please define bridge app, activeX and SDK for DVD Profiler 2. I am currently using what I thought was DVDProfiler 2 so it would be great to dump the entre for a multi=changer controller. Although I can hack my TIVO and put more memory in my computer, I am afraid that I am also an attorney, and therefore useless for most meaningful things.

Well I suppose I left the door open...to interpretation

Nick, "...essential...", "...sink...", etc. These are all subjective, depend on your perspective and have a matter of timing as a dependency. Tactical maneuvering post of subtly changing your stances, FUD and straw man arguments are certainly entertaining and, I admit, have some merit. I'm just not sure this will goad KW and make them bend over backwards for us. It does keep the issue afloat which is a ploy you are entertained by <grin>. Your hyperbolic analogy was pretty funny because I just watched that movie a couple weeks ago. I bet you are good at your profession.

Guys, please don't read so much/little into my post. I was merely trying to point out that the Sovereign line has technical merits and accomplishments and meets the needs of various people. The poor defenseless Entré was being blasted with unfair comparisons (yes I know personification). Does it meet all immediate needs of all types of AV people? Nope.

My stance on multi-changer support should not be questioned at this point by those who have seen this thread for a good length of time. You know that I want multi-changer support as well and thought I needed it right away (DVDs one and CDs in another). I also thought it was there from day one. Now my CDs are ripped and I'm still buy DVDs. We all are...everyone is. Heck there are articles in daily papers about DVDs and increase sales. It is certainly mainstream and on a roll. I'm going to get to 401 and many will get to 1201 (then what are you guys going to do? Irony.). Heck we know there are many people content with single transport changers and putting the DVD cases on the wall shelve or in "CD" cases/sleeves/folders.

If Jeff, Brian or David could say anything definite I'm suspect they would. We know it [multi-changer support] was intended...that is clear in said examples [GUI, etc]. I wholeheartedly agree that KW should be owning up to this situation. What can we collectively do that is more positive than what is/has been done for the KW angle. Write, call, voice our request more formally?

Mediastorm(Todd?), your bridge app sounds pretty interesting and impressive. However, regarding your other post, I think you misread my post because I don't understand your analogy. I wasn't suggesting forgiving KW/OG for one indiscretion or lowering my expectations of getting multi-changer support. Please reread my post and take into account my numerous others on this subject. (Oh, I did see in zinja post as well stated..."as a reason to forego". Perhaps I just didn't write clearly. Again not my perspective or point.)


RE: multiple Entré's on the network
I don't recall if this has been brought up before or that many care but I found it pretty interesting that KW designed for multiple Entré's on the network? The axcesses give you a choice when they start up of which one you want to talk to. You likely noticed that you can name your Entré and was wondering why. I wonder if this is because they really thought people would want/need more than 4 concurrently streaming axcess devices or that it was a way of dealing with the 20G harddisk space. This feature seems to be only for axcess purposes.


With friendly regards, Scott Fauque

P.S. Don't think with my glass is half-full type of post that it means I give up my rights to complain about features and functionality or that I'm being hypocritical. It ain't perfect...and there are plenty of things to be improved.:rolleyes:

Originally posted by MediaStorm
Nick,

I've got most of a bridge app done that will fully control the 5900. Until they release the SDK for DVD Profiler 2 there is not much chance it will be used as the 'front' end. DVD Lobby would certainly work as well as others.

The bridge app will handle the hard work back and forth and can also be used via ActiveX so all options are open if you want to do any additional fun stuff on your own.

I'm waiting on getting my 5900 through the service center before the bridge app is completed but it is coming very soon.

It should work straight away with DVD Lobby or ActiveX with DVD Profiler direct support, Premise Systems SYS support and a few other interfaces in the future.

Mediastorm,
Any idea when you'll have the bridge app/activeX working?
I'm working feverishly to get DVDLobby Pro 2.0 done with full compatability for all changers via the Slinke, but if yours will work directly with the Kenwood without the need for the SLinke that sounds even better for Kenwood users. I can integrate your ActiveX directly into DVDlobby and the user will just need to specify they are using a Kenwood changer.

Hi-

I know I read long ago in this post that some of you are using a programmable remote, such as a Pronto, to control your Entre system. I have several remote systems and I have never gotten around to finishing any of them (my wide calls me an AV collector!) Anyway, I have access to a Pronto Pro, a Crestron system, and an RTI Theatertouch, which is the one I prefer (for its programming simplicity and user interface w/ hard buttons on the remote in combo w/ touch screen.) I am trying to finally get off my ass and program my system, but I need to find some files for Sovereign gear. Remote Central.com only has a few Entre and DV5900 programs (none for RTI, a few for Pronto)...but I really need a CCF or RTI file for my Sovereign receiver, the VR5700. What remotes are you using and do you have any files you can share? I realize I could learn the codes from the receiver remote, but all it has is an input toggle, and I know there is a way to access the inputs directly on the VR5700. This would be needed when I want to switch from the Entre input to the TV input, for example. Any help or feedback would be appreciated.

Although this is nothing new, I though I would post the reply received yesterday (10/09/02) from a "Stage 3" Kenwood Consumer Services representative regarding my inquiry about the lack of multi-changer support of my Entre' / 5900:


-QUOTE-
Thank you for writing to us at Kenwood USA Corporation.

The ability for the Entre to control multiple DVD player is not available yet. And, unfortunately, there is no projected date for this feature. We are very sorry, and are working as quickly as we can to make this feature possible.

If you have any further questions or need help with anything, please feel free to contact us again.


************************************************************ ****************
*******
Kenwood U.S.A. Corporation
Stage 3 Consumer Services
P.O. Box 22745
Long Beach, CA 90801-5745
Nick Dynice
Consumer Service Representative
-UNQUOTE-

The good news, I guess, is that the reply does not imply that this feature may never be available.... right?

I purchased my Entre/VR5700/DV5900 system early this year and, until you guys got me worried :) , I was extatic with its general performance, despite the occasional hangups of the Entre' and noisy / slow changer. At the rate I am loading DVD's and CD's though, I may join the ranks of the unhappy fairly soon.

One more thing that bug(ged) me. Are the component video ins/outs on the back of the Entre' and VR5700 "reversed" on your units (that is, from top to bottom, Green Blue and Red on the VR and Red Blue and Green on the Entre')? Mine are, and it sure drove me nuts while I was setting up the system... It took me a whole day that I had a miswiring problem, rather than a defective Entre'.

Ciao,

--
Umberto - Altadena, CA

The one reason I think it will come is becuase they have not removed it from the Entre's menus. It states it is checking changer one when reading a movie. It did not do this at first. So someone is working on something.

Originally posted by Carbo
The one reason I think it will come is becuase they have not removed it from the Entre's menus. It states it is checking changer one when reading a movie. It did not do this at first. So someone is working on something.

I'm content to quit talking about this, so long as we agree that Kenwood has been evasive on the subject, and doesn't deserve the benefit of any doubt (either because Entre is an otherwise good product, or the fact that Kenwood certainly has worked on the issue). We should further agree that Kenwood knows how to fix it and is right now refusing to implement the fix because it costs too much. I hate to be the cold water that gets thrown on these sparks, but, as much as I have always--and now--want Entre to succeed, this has to be a call-'em-as-you-see-'em proposition. And to anyone who thinks that being "nice" to Kenwood is the way to its heart . . . guys, you're confusing people with corporations.

If you go deep into the sub-menu of the Entre, you will see several places where it's clear that the use of multiple changers was contemplated from the first release. I don't know if the one Carbo refers to was there initially or not. But those give me no assurance, because they've been there from day one. That would be consistent with Kenwood "thinking" that it would work, and not finding out until someone actually hooked up two changers that it did not. Because that's what they claimed it would do, in unequivocal language at the time I purchased it.

I agree that Kenwood has probably worked on the issue. That's what prompted it to make its third statement on the website, which has for months said "coming soon."

However, enough time has passed on this issue that Kenwood does not deserve the benefit of any doubts. This is particularly true when Kenwood, we know, can resort to a form of assurance that none will doubt: It's called Plain English.

Embodied in the message that the poster above received from Kenwood is the real message: When Will There Be Multichanger Support? Maybe Never. Kenwood has refused to commit, and always speaks in terms of caveats and maybes. A year of this is too long to suggest that Kenwood is acting reasonably with its consumers.

We should recognize that all signs point to this as being an issue of money. Of course Kenwood knows how to fix it, and, yes, they've been working on it. But they've also worked on figuring out the cost of a fix, and the most logical conclusion is that they don't want to throw good money after bad. Providing a fix costs it more than it is willing to spend. And, it probably costs it more than it thinks it will lose in consumer complaints (legal or otherwise). To admit that, however, is to make things worse. To remain silent, and simply allow people to speculate that it will "perhaps" be there is its best form of marketing: Keep selling the stuff, with all the hype of the original marketing, just so long as it doesn't come from Kenwood's mouth, which is where it would risk liability.

So, Kenwood, I won't talk about this anymore . . . unless I see a suggestion that the multichanger issue is not such a big deal, or that you'll probably provide a fix. Providing a fix is something Kenwood needs to say, and to say so unequivocally.

Nick :cool:

Well I am at 400. I decided for now to join the blockbuster keep 3 movies at a time as long as you like for $23 a month. This should slow down my growth rate.

Comtemplating a second player and abandoning using the entre at all. Using the native osd with some creative arranging of the categories between the 2, should hold me for another year or until I get all the pieces needed for dvdlobby.

Slocko,

At the risk of a slight tangent on this topic, why would you want to pay $23/month for 3 movies at a time from BlockBuster when you can get a better deal with NetFlix, and not have to drive to/from the store to get your movies -- and get a better selection?

I spend $15/month for 2 movies at a time with NetFlix. I love it.

Hey Guys,
Fortunately for me, those a Hollywood Video about a 1/4 mile from my house that rents any DVD for $1 for 5 days. I usually go in on a Tuesday or Wednesday and stock up on 3-5 movies for the weekend.

How expensive would it be for Kenwood to use an existing USB to serial adapter that is already out there. So all we would have to do is go buy one and plug it in to one of the usb ports in the back. It is not like they have to come up with the hardware for this. They just have to modify the software.

Maybe I am wrong but this should be do'able.

blockbuster is on my way home from work so it's not a big deal. but i am going to look at netflix.

i like the rating feature they use. supposedly it lets you discover new movies you might not have otherwise checked out. does it work well?

I don't think so. It has yet pick something I would like.

Slocko,

-Netflix OT alert --

I haven't used the rating feature to auto-pick for me yet, but I do rate everything I watch so I should be building up a smarter profile over time.

The feature I DO like, however, is their now playing feature... which lets you "rent" a movie that is currently playing in the theaters. The upshot is that if you know you want to see a movie that's being advertised now, but you know you'll never get to the theater to see it, you can immediately "rent" it and when it becomes available in the coming months, it's automatically added to your list.

I've had decent success with their rating system, but I've rated almost 800 movies. :\
I've found tons of great movies that I never would've seen - either by the list of similar movies whenever I'm looking at one movie, or via the recommendations list.

I really shouldn't have to ask this, but . . .

I recalled from when my changers first arrived about a year ago, I entered disc names in the following way:

1. Went to "Library"
2. Went to "user file"
3. Went to "user file all."
4. Highlighted the rectangle box and clicked on (boxes were numbered)
5. At that point, disc naming options appeared to the right.
6. Clicked on "disc," and then I could type in the title from the 5900 keyboard--all of this could be seen from the monitor.

Now . . .

Once I decided to put my second changer into active duty, I loaded the discs, and did the same thing (only with the sub1 Library menu).

All seemed fine. My "list" of DVD titles appeared in my sub1 changer.

Problem: After I would once play the disc (by highlighting it, and entering the "play" cursor), the title information would get wiped out. I returned to the manual and . . . the manual called for me to press a "title input" key on the keyboard.

Nothing appeared on screen. If I would try to type in characters, I could see nothing appearing on the LED readout on the front of the DV-5050M (which, for this purpose, should be identical to the 5900).

Editor's Note. There is no way to use the OSD when entering titles into the Sovereign Changers, with the keyboard However, the instructions for title entry do work, but you must enter while using the readout on the changer itself. Those entries then appear in the "All" section of the User Files. All is well, at least in that regard.



Nick :cool:

Nick,

When you locate the disc you want to label, and you click on the disc icon (to change the name), do you get a OSD keyboard that allows you to enter the name of the DVD?

This has been an extremely informative thread. As an outside that is considering the purchase of the DV-5900M and the Entre, considering the considerable list of "gripes" with both components, is it still a good idea to purchase them now or should one wait for a second generation of components to come out that address many issues listed in this thread?
Are the first versions discussed here outdated or obselete if new products in the future address these issues? Or are all the issues software based in which the current models can be changed and upgrades to "second generation" status?
Thanks for the input.

Originally posted by Steve*MH
This has been an extremely informative thread. As an outside that is considering the purchase of the DV-5900M and the Entre, considering the considerable list of "gripes" with both components, is it still a good idea to purchase them now or should one wait for a second generation of components to come out that address many issues listed in this thread?
Are the first versions discussed here outdated or obselete if new products in the future address these issues? Or are all the issues software based in which the current models can be changed and upgrades to "second generation" status?
Thanks for the input.

Steve:

How many discs do you intend to put in the changer? If it's anwhere close to 400, I don't know how you can seriously consider the Entre. That is, unless you intend to quit collecting at that point.

The DV-5900 is a good performer in its own right, but I would be wary of it because, if there is a second generation Entre, it too risks obsolescence.

Unfortunately, there's not a lot of choices. Entre combined with the DV-5900 is a really great system, but . . .

Nick :cool:

I happen to find the DV-5900M to be quite the capable -- if slow and frustrating -- mega-changer (I never had an Entre, so I don't miss the fucntionality).

It's the only mega-changer available with Faroudja processing, DVD-Audio capability, DVD-A bass management, MP3 playback, and DVD-Video playback.

There is no competition anywhere in sight. It is an island in the see of functionality. Too bad it's also a desert sland in the sea of user experience design. :(

Oh, there's no question in my mind that the DV-5900 is the best DVD changer ever made in the places that count.

My question is this: If Entre requires a 2d generation, then it is at least an open question of whether the DV-5900 will require a 2d generation. If that happens, then the question of whether to purchase a DV-5900 is potentially the question of whether to buy a soon-to-be-discontinued product. That's my only reservation.

That said, however, if you don't need to know that you're "current," and that you at least have the option of upgrading to a functional Entre, go for the DV-5900. I saw a brand new one on eBay for a "buy it now" price of $928 the other day. Hell, I was tempted. But I want to wait for Kenwood to let me know if Sovereign is going to the burial grounds or not. That's my only question.

Nick :cool:

Nick,

Obselecence is exactly what I worry about when spending $1,000 on a DVD/CD changer as the technologies change so often. Just a couple of questions:

1) How likely is it that a newer version of the Entre would be backward compatible with the current DV-5900M?

2) With just the DV-5900M alone as a player, what are the major setbacks for it? I have heard it is slow to play and change discs, which maybe should be expected with 400 discs. I have also heard of quicks with certain formats, such as DTS playback or difficulting in categorizing discs. I guess one has to expect some quicks with any component and I guess some I could overlook if they are simply convenience factors. The main issue for me is actual audio and video performance. How does the DV-5900M perform next to single-play machines costing 5X as much? Any concerns about the "build quality" of the DV-5900 or its performance as a DVD/CD player compared to other high-end single disc players? There are not very many such machines to pick from and very high-end companys seem unwilling to make such players--such as Theta, Krell, etc. --do you think companies such as those will get into the jukebox players at some point?

3) Has anyone contacted Kenwood to feel out the likelyhood that a second generation is the the NEAR future?
Is it likely changes could be done via software (RS-232) to change quirks in the DV-5900 or the Entre without entire new versions replacing them?

Thanks.

Originally posted by Steve*MH
Nick,

Obselecence is exactly what I worry about when spending $1,000 on a DVD/CD changer as the technologies change so often. Just a couple of questions:

1) How likely is it that a newer version of the Entre would be backward compatible with the current DV-5900M?

This really goes to the heart of the issue, i.e., what's the future of Entre? Only Kenwood can answer that question, and Kenwood literally refuses to answer the question. There is strong and valid suspicion that Entre is a large financial failure for Kenwood, and that it simply is refusing to spend the money needed to fix it. How that plays out for whether Kenwood will ever either fix the current generation, or even come out with a second generation, Kenwood has left us to guess.

2) With just the DV-5900M alone as a player, what are the major setbacks for it? I have heard it is slow to play and change discs, which maybe should be expected with 400 discs. I have also heard of quicks with certain formats, such as DTS playback or difficulting in categorizing discs. I guess one has to expect some quicks with any component and I guess some I could overlook if they are simply convenience factors. The main issue for me is actual audio and video performance. How does the DV-5900M perform next to single-play machines costing 5X as much? Any concerns about the "build quality" of the DV-5900 or its performance as a DVD/CD player compared to other high-end single disc players? There are not very many such machines to pick from and very high-end companys seem unwilling to make such players--such as Theta, Krell, etc. --do you think companies such as those will get into the jukebox players at some point?

It is slow with a clunky user interface. It will not pass a 24/96 digital signal (the two channel dvd audio discs) without dropout. I have heard no issues with DTS.

Otherwise it is a very high quality performer. It doesn't have the type of build quality that the new Krell has, but it does more than that player (DVD-Audio), and it has the same video processing from Faroudja. While there's only a handful of dvd players in the $2,000+ range, I'd strongly suggest that you audition them head to head. I strongly believe that most of the "quality" in dvd playback is in the software. No dvd player that I am aware of does more than 480p, and to do better than that you need an outboard processor. Stick with the recommendations you receive on Secrets from Stacey Spears and Don Munsil, and use a good interlaced player with a processor that lets you go to 720p or above.

Krell or the like will never come out with a jukebox. I have owned all the Sony jukebox changers, and the Pioneer DV-F727. The 5900 is built better than those (or at least as good as) and I have operated those problem free for at least three years. While I love my Krell amplifiers, I think its foray into DVD playback is going to be a lot of diminishing returns. The only ones raving about the Krell will be those who buy it, or the reviewers whose magazines get advertising revenue.

3) Has anyone contacted Kenwood to feel out the likelyhood that a second generation is the the NEAR future?
Is it likely changes could be done via software (RS-232) to change quirks in the DV-5900 or the Entre without entire new versions replacing them?

Thanks.

For a year. Read through this thread. Kenwood provided outrightly inaccurate information to begin with, and has never been anything but obscure since then. They refuse to answer the questions, but, with proclaimed participation on this thread since its inception, permit as much favorable predictions about the product, so long as they are not the ones to whom such statements are attributable.

With all of that said, I will say this: I would rather own a discontinued DV-5900, than 90% of the players out there. What it does, it does very well. The combination of the Entre/DV-5900 adds a dimension to your system that nothing--and I mean nothing-- can rival. You have to have lived with it to know that you don't want to be without its features.

But if you're buying the 5900 for the Sovereign "scheme," then buyer beware. Kenwood has at the very least failed in its representations concerning the capabilities of the Entre, and has been brutally unscrupulous in its communications with the people that paid several thousand dollars for the product, and continues to do so. On its own, the 5900 is worth the money. But if you're buying it because you want to "add" in the future, well, that may never happen.

Nick :cool:

Damn, what a bad week for me. First my 5900 goes to the repair shop then they turn down the satellite merger.

Well. guess its time to start serioulsy loading my second 5900m and inputting the 200+ to go into that player. Oh well, nothing more than I would have had to do with the Pioneer players, and those kept breaking. Funny, the NOvember 2002 Sound and Vision did a review on the Escient Fireball Music Server. Does the same thing as out beloved Entre, only it can't control the 5900 DVD player (for DVD's). And it only cost $400 more than our entre (course it has a biggr hard-drive).

Zinja:

In the event you have only DVDs in your changer, I strongly suggest backing up your "log" with DVD Profiler. Right now, I have my DVD Profiler program "numbered" up to 510, which is how many discs I have. But I number them according to the slot they're locate in, so if anything ever gets wiped out in either the Entre or the changer, there's a backup. Then, as I add items, I simply add it to my DVD Profiler.

You actually have less need for this than I do, since you have two 5900s. I have one 5900 and one 5050 (which is daisy chained). However, because my 5900 is filled (it's the main changer--as one of yours will have to be), I constantly need to swap discs out of my 5900 into the 5050, because only the 5900 has DVD-Audio capability.

For those who don't know, the differences between a 5900 and a 5050 are that (1) the 5900 can play DVD-A discs; and (2) it has Faroudja deinterlacing for its progressive output. The 5050 has a non Faroudja de-interlacing (doesn't matter to me, since I run both interlaced into a separate video processor).

Even if the Entre fails, I will probably stick with the changers. So I would load away if I were you.

Nick :cool:

if i get a 5050 to daisy chain, it doens't matter that it doesn't have faroudja right? The main player, the 5900 is the one that would be doing the video processing correct? Or am I totally off base here?

Originally posted by slocko
if i get a 5050 to daisy chain, it doens't matter that it doesn't have faroudja right? The main player, the 5900 is the one that would be doing the video processing correct? Or am I totally off base here?

I discussed this once (or read it), and, sadly, there's no free lunch. If I recall correctly, the main unit simply functions as a pass through for the sub units, so it will not do any processing. So you're going to get the processing that's offered in the 5050 for its video output. That just gets passed through to the main unit, which outputs directly to the monitor, or to the Entre.

Nick :cool:

I just got my second 5900 and it has one annoying quirk: on my original 5900, when you hit eject, the disk is moved out about 1/16" from the stack, which facilitates removing and inserting disks. The new unit doesn't do that. Is this a change in the way the units work, or is my new one defective?