rbienstock,

My unit began its life by ejecting the disk about a 1/16" -- but not anymore. I suspect a lot of units are afflicted by this bug.

Is there any way to download a list of DVD's and which slot they are located in, or is it going to be a manual process to determine which DVD is in which slot (using the entre menu of course). Nick, you have a good idea on the DVD Profiler numbering.

Anyone know whether the Entre can handle the new mp3pro format? If not, any reason why a sw upgrade could not add that to the Entre? With the limitation of the 20-Gig HD this format would be a good addition to the Entre...

I thought someone mentioned a while back that a new version of the Media Manager is available for download. I just checked it and it is still the same old version on Kenwood's sw web page. I am thinking they may have decided to revert back to the old version for some reason... If someone have the newer version handy I would appreciate to get it in an email :)

I started to transfer a bunch of my Swedish mp3 files from a CD collection I have already converted on my PC-HD. It now turns out that the MediaManager can not handle Swedish characters (åäö) in the mp3 tags, which results in these albums not being transferred to the Entre. This is really a basic problem that I would think should have been corrected now a year after the Entre launch... but again maybe I expect too much from this system.

Also, the mp3 transfer via the MediaManager is REALLY slow!!! This application really need some enhancements...

Several of us have been wanting an updated version of Media Manager, but no luck. I have watched this thread religiously from the beginning and have not seen any mention of an update. The Entre istelf can't display those characters either. I have several CDs from a Swedish pop group that have song titles that display incorrectly. Heck, it can't even display Mötley Crüe correctly.

Bob

Thanks Bob! I would actually not bee too upset if it was only that the characters could not be correctly displayed, but in this case the mp3 files can not even be transferred to the Entre when any of the mp3 tags contain a Swedish character... It seems the Media Manager developer got laid off (with no replacement).

Lars, can't you change the characters that won't "translate" into regular alpha letters that Entre can understand before you transfer these MP3's from the Media Manager to the Entre?

--
Umberto

Umberto, I have hundreds of tracks with Swedish characters that I would need to translate (I brought my collection from Sweden when I moved to the US), so that would take hours to do... Not an option - I have better things to do. :p

Have anyone been able to find the DVD information for the latest "Beauty and the Beast" release from Disney? I am trying the guessing game and can not figure out how OG entered the title into the database. I would appreciate if someone that has been successful can share the secret search string...

Originally posted by zinja
Funny, the November 2002 Sound and Vision did a review on the Escient Fireball Music Server. Does the same thing as out beloved Entre, only it can't control the 5900 DVD player (for DVD's). And it only cost $400 more than our entre (course it has a bigger hard-drive).


Funny as well the Dec 2002 Audio Video Interiors did a review on the Rio Central (http://www.diamondmm.com/audio/rio/rio_audiocenter.asp) ($1500) and the Rio Receiver (http://www.sonicblue.com/audio/rio/rio_receiver.asp) ($200). Very very similar to the Entre (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2357&productLineId=2) /Axcess (http://www.kenwoodusa.com/product/product.jsp?productId=2358) . It does have a 40G HD and supports WMAs (as well as MP3). I do not see where it support internet radio, however, and does not come with free Sirius Radio (great sound and selection). [You are supposed to be able to add i-radio ASPs to the Entre as well but I didn't have much luck one day and even followed FAQ directions. I only tried a couple stations.]

Interesting that there is 3 companies believing there is a market for this aspect of the 'entertainment hubs'. For us if the Entre is a success for a variety of reasons then that means more attention to the Sovereign line from within Kenwood. Perhaps those music lovers will enjoy a 5900 (or two someday) controlled from the Entre raising interest.


[edit 2 begin]
P.S. Escient Fireball info (http://www.escientconvergence.com/fireball.htm)

Interesting note in the FAQ on the fireball accessable from the above page:

Q. Does FireBall play DVDs?
A. FireBall is a complete music management system and does not play DVDs in the single drive or a connected combination changer. Based on our customer feedback, FireBall focuses on doing music management for a variety of music formats, and doing it really well – all from one simple interface.

They also have PowerPlay which I think does play DVDs but doesn't seem on their site anymore unless hidden. I did find it with an advanced google.com search here: PowerPlay (http://www.escientconvergence.com/pplay.htm)

[edit 2 end]

The last time I saw the Escient PowerPlay was at least year's CEDIA, and it had serious problems.
The unfortunate girl doing the demo got the system stuck in a DVD's menu and was unable to get the system back to the DVD selection screen(s). It wasn't a completely integrated system - it's a polished front-end on top of software controlling a CD changer in a single box.
Unfortunately, once you're playing a DVD, their software was out of the picture.
They may have fixed it by now, but if they're not even listing it on their website now, that may say more than enough about its current state.

Escient's so called "pipeline" Media Manager is actually exactly the same application as the Kenwood Media Manager (same functionality, GUI etc), so my guess is that the Escient Fireball sw package is as poor as for Kenwood, hence no competition there (unfortunately). I also do not like the fact that you need to use other Fireball's in order to access/play the music from the main Fireball. The only true hub that I will consider to replace my Entre will be something like the TurtleBeach unit that can interface with any external PC/NFS's on the network. If only the TurtleBeach had an external GUI that could be hooked up to a TV monitor I would get one today ! Open platform hubs is the only way to go...

A custom installer who has used Escient, and installed it, saw my Entre the other day. His comment was that it was virtually "the same" as the Fireball (he had not seen Power Play),particularly when looking at the setup menus.

It's no secret that there's a relationship between the two companies, if only because Escient owns OpenGlobe.

However, that's what is really regrettable about Entre. Kenwood did do it right. It doesn't have the problems that Patrick alluded to with Escient, and it was a fraction of the price.

Better product, for a fraction of the price, and they found somewhere else to blow it.

The more I fill my second changer, the more I realize what a great product Entre is. And the more I realize the likelihood that, soon, we'll probably be talking about what a great product Entre was.

Nick :cool:

Nicholas,

What makes you so sure the Entre is a dead product?

I have a question regarding DV-5900M VCD playback. I just created a VCD that plays perfectly on my InterVideo DVD software.

However, when playing in my 5900M, a very very strange thing happens:

It plays it at 1/2 speed, but in a choppy fashion. As if someone is hitting PLAY and then PAUSE over and over again.
Even more interesting is that if I hit FF once (so it's FFing at 2x play speed), the VCD plays back almost perfectly... but not quite... it still drops many frames, but at least the sound plays back consistently, with very few breaks. I have seen this happen with other VCDs that my friend made as well.

Is this weird or what? What's going on here? Why won't my player play back this VCD properly?

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Nicholas,

What makes you so sure the Entre is a dead product?

Jon:

I called it a likelihood. But ask yourself why Kenwood has not rushed to provide assurance? After all, we know they read the thread.

I think it was Simon & Garfunkel. The Sounds Of Silence.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
I have a question regarding DV-5900M VCD playback. I just created a VCD that plays perfectly on my InterVideo DVD software.

However, when playing in my 5900M, a very very strange thing happens:

It plays it at 1/2 speed, but in a choppy fashion. As if someone is hitting PLAY and then PAUSE over and over again.
Even more interesting is that if I hit FF once (so it's FFing at 2x play speed), the VCD plays back almost perfectly... but not quite... it still drops many frames, but at least the sound plays back consistently, with very few breaks. I have seen this happen with other VCDs that my friend made as well.

Is this weird or what? What's going on here? Why won't my player play back this VCD properly?

I have problems playing VCD's on my DV-5050M. I've only gotten one to play correctly, and I've since lost it. Evidently, the changer is VERY picky about how the VCD is burned. Although, even with idiot proof software like Nero, which checks to make sure your VCD is compliant, I still can't get the dang thing to work. These VCD's play fine on my PC, and on other DVD players.


uh2

Nick,
Not that I don't agree with you about the fate of the Entre, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions based upon Kenwood's official -- or unofficial -- responses to on-line complaints.

First of all, the people who do the engineering are most likely in Japan, and do not even speak English very well. So, any engineering progress is sure to have some communication barriers, to say the least.

Second, any mature company has a very strict PR strategy, and simply will never respond to a forum or individual. They only communicate through press releases and industry events. I work in Corporate Communications for a Fortune 1000 company, and I know that our policies are extremely tight. And that does ensure that there are some unhappy constituents... but on the whole, they are not important constituents in the scheme of things.

This is what prompted my posting last week asking aloud if AVSForum really matters to anyone but the enthusiasts who contribute.

uh2,

Agreed... VCD support is poor on the 5900M. A shame because, by 2001, most manufacturers were buying chipsets that play everything readily. Makes you think that Kenwood was doing some proprietary low-level development vs. buying off the shelf chipsets.

I still think it's incredibly strange that playing a VCD at 2x speed makes it play normal (just about). Very bizarre behavour.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Nick,
Not that I don't agree with you about the fate of the Entre, but I wouldn't jump to conclusions based upon Kenwood's official -- or unofficial -- responses to on-line complaints.

Generally speaking, I would agree. But this is a thread in which Kenwood has openly participated. My conclusions are based on a simple syllogism: That Entre's primary function (albeit not its exclusive function) is in relationship to the Sovereign DVD changers, and that without multichanger control it has cut its usefulness into one third. Because users will ultimately reach the cliff I have reached (sorry, changer full!) I look at Entre on a collision course with a serious obsolescence problem.

I do know how many Entres have been sold by the only authorized dealer in Northeast Ohio (and maybe all of Ohio): 0.

Second, any mature company has a very strict PR strategy, and simply will never respond to a forum or individual. They only communicate through press releases and industry events. I work in Corporate Communications for a Fortune 1000 company, and I know that our policies are extremely tight. And that does ensure that there are some unhappy constituents... but on the whole, they are not important constituents in the scheme of things.

But remember one thing . . . something that Kenwood would like us to forget . . . this is not an issue of product development, in the sense that the product is not being updated according to promises. This was something that Kenwood said was already there when they began shipping Entre. Read back in the thread where some posters requested documentation of that fact (it exists). This isn't the same as a corporate policy of whether a new feature should be added: It is a matter of no-doubt explicit representations made about what the product could do, when it couldn't. That raises issues, said the lawyer.

This is what prompted my posting last week asking aloud if AVSForum really matters to anyone but the enthusiasts who contribute.

Which I thought was a very astute question . . . and we can all agree that, to a corporation, it's got to show its love by remembering the location of its mouth, and putting its money there.

Kenwood knows the problem, and has known it before this thread was started (in December 2001). Ask yourself if you really believe that its hesitation in producing a remedy is because it doesn't know how to fix it, or that fixing it would cost too much money?

Then ask yourself if this product can survive when it becomes known that its manufacturer won't spend money on it, and money is the only thing that can fix it?

Like Damon Runyon said, "the race may not be to the strong, nor the battle to the swift. But that's the way to bet."

I want to be wrong, but the only one that can suggest it is Kenwood. Didn't they used to use this thread to pass along information?

Nick :cool:

JonDeutsch,

I have burned a few VCD's that turn out like that...but I never tried the 2x speed trick. My VCD's usually have green bars on the top and bottom, and very big artifact "blocks", that make the movie unbearable.

I don't know what Kenwood was thinking.

uh2

And I thought the griping on this thread was bad, go to the pinnaclesys.com forum, there are some real professional gripers on those threads.

In the meantime, a more productive use of our time would be to figure a work around for the multi-changer problem. What we need is someone to put out specific particulars about the use of a computer, DVD Profiler and anything else we need to replace the entre. I am no computer expert, but I am not going to wait for the rest of my life, complaining about something that may or may never get fixed. I also like my two 5900m's, cause they really do work better than any other chnager out there. CEDIA has come and gone, time to load up my second changer and move on.

Originally posted by zinja
And I thought the griping on this thread was bad, go to the pinnaclesys.com forum, there are some real professional gripers on those threads

In the meantime, a more productive use of our time would be to figure a work around for the multi-changer problem. What we need is someone to put out specific particulars about the use of a computer, DVD Profiler and anything else we need to replace the entre. I am no computer expert, but I am not going to wait for the rest of my life, complaining about something that may or may never get fixed. I also like my two 5900m's, cause they really do work better than any other chnager out there. CEDIA has come and gone, time to load up my second changer and move on.

When you're right, you're right, Zinja. Onward. I am into disc 109 of my second changer, and there's no better changers out there.

Nick :cool:

P.S. How do I view the griping on pinnaclesys.com?

Zinja,

First, to make the most out of the computer connection, you need to make sure it has a video card with a video out (preferably at least svideo). This way you can connect it to your tv. Without this, you would be limited to seeing the interface on the computer only.

Second, you need either a slink-e or some other device that can receive IR and send IR. The reason is so you can control the computer screens via IR and the device will send IR to the kenwood players. There is also a software dimension to translate IR into something the computer understands and vice-versa.

This might change if mario gets the kenwood integration going with dvdlobby now that mediastorm is working on providing an activex component for kenwood changer control. With this integration the computer through the serial port will control the kenwood directly. You would still need an IR device to control the computer, but there are a lot of devices in this category to choose from.

Third piece, is dvd profiler integration with dvd lobby. Right now there is an intermediate step in getting the information from profiler into dvdlobby. Dvdlobby is a simple although gorgeous graphical shell that associates dvd titles with commands. The commands are sent to the kenwood directly, or to the IR device that then sends the IR signal onward to the player.

This is a very simple overview. I haven't tried any of this yet. But I think once Mario gets the integration tight with dvdprofiler and kenwood control it would be simple to put together a pc with a nice chasis (silver or black), preloaded with all the software and an IR based control device for less than the cost of an entre. It won't do everything the entre does, but it will control all three players.

The way I envision it will enventually work:

1) Bar code reader to read in a new dvd to dvd profiler. It does the lookup and adds the dvd to your collection.
2) You add the slot number to the new dvd record.
3) Fire up Dvd lobby. When dvdlobby launches, it automatically does an import of only new records. Using the slot number, it builds a command string for that dvd record to control the kenwood.
4) When you select the new dvd to play in dvdlobby, it sends the command string to the main player, and the main player will iniate playback on the appropiate daisy chained player.

Not as easy as the entre, but you have a much nicer interface and you can backup your collection.

Nick sorry about not including a link, if you did not know, Pinnacle is the leading home video software company. Their newest program is Studio 8. I just bought their Studio Deluxe and am attempting to convert my VHS home movies to DVD. Unfortunately, my 1 Ghz 256 RDRAM computer is on the slow side for this type of work. And my second 80 Gig hard drive just is not big enough (4 Gig for every 18 minutes of capture):)

http://webboard.pinnaclesys.com/read_messages.asp?WebboardID=1&ForumID=704&SectionID=143&ThreadID=113233&ThreadStart=0&Pos=13&cntThread=50&lng=1

Attempting to install Entree Media Manager on my win2000 system. The problem has to do with the Microsoft DOA 2.6 which doesn't completely install. I attemped to download and use version 2.7 from Microsoft website with out success. I'm havivg this problem in installing the MS part required for Media Manager, any thoughts?

I was able to install Media manager on a win98 system with no problems.

First, to make the most out of the computer connection, you need to make sure it has a video card with a video out (preferably at least svideo). This way you can connect it to your tv. Without this, you would be limited to seeing the interface on the computer only.

Or, as I do, you can switch the VGA (RGB) output of the computer between a computer monitor and your HDTV (mine is Pioneer Elite PRO510-HD) or front projector. You will need a transcoder if your HDTV has only component inputs. Also if you want to use other than 480p (I use up to 1080i), you'll need a video card in the computer that can do custom resolutions like the Radeons. You can find all the info you need in the HTPC forum.

Best bet is to cut and paste the error message you are getting from win2k when you attempt to install mdac 2.7 into microsoft's knowledge base at www.microsoft.com.

Also cut and paste into www.google.com, the groups tab. Chances are someone has solved your problem in the past.

Originally posted by aauno
Attempting to install Entree Media Manager on my win2000 system. The problem has to do with the Microsoft DOA 2.6 which doesn't completely install. I attemped to download and use version 2.7 from Microsoft website with out success. I'm havivg this problem in installing the MS part required for Media Manager, any thoughts?

I was able to install Media manager on a win98 system with no problems.

Slocko:

Dvdprofiler claims plug in support on v 2.0. Why can't it control the kenwoods directly through a plug in? Dvdlobby is very nice, but doesn't offer category browsing as does dvdprofiler and the entre.

Slocko:

Dvdprofiler claims plug in support on v 2.0. Why can't it control the kenwoods directly through a plug in? Dvdlobby is very nice, but doesn't offer category browsing as does dvdprofiler and the entre.

fredisdead69,

Stay tuned...DVDLobby Pro 2.0 will offer category browsing plus much more. :)

slocko,
The entire process of DVDLobby Pro 2.0 will be extremely simplified compared to version 1.0 - especially now that I know there are a large number of Kenwood and Sony users out there.

Someone would still have to develop the plugin for dvdprofiler. Don't know how complicated that would be to develop and it probably has to be in C++. Someone might be up to the task.

It might be easier to develop a plugin that lets dvdlobby import info from dvdprofiler very easily in a logical way.

You would still need the IR part of the equation. Mario is working on category support, but at least you can sort by genre. You can also run mutliple copies of dvdlobby, one for each genre, but that makes it more complicated.

Keep in mind that in terms of presentation I think dvdlobby has the edge based on the few screens I have seen of either.

Mario,

The folks in this thread are used to waiting... :-)

Hi slocko,
As I've mentioned in the past...DVDLobby Pro 2.0 is already importing data from DVDProfiler 2. It takes all of 10 seconds to do this. DVDProfiler 2 has an xml export feature. DVDLobby Pro 2 reads this data in and makes it available. Just add to your collection either directly from DVDLobby Pro 2 or keep adding to DVDProfiler.

Keep in mind that in terms of presentation I think dvdlobby has the edge based on the few screens I have seen of either.

As far as the interface goes, the user will be able to totally customize the look and feel. Drag and drop the movie poster/DVD cover any where on screen, move thumbnails (variety of ways to display thumbnails), view by title, etc. all this will be done in a graphical way.

The folks in this thread are used to waiting... :-)

Let me just say, Xmas should come early this year for all those waiting. :)

For those of you who aren't familar with the development of DVDLobby Pro 2, it will become integrated into MainLobby. This will also allow you to control components, lighting, view security camera's, etc. So now when you launch a movie, you can also control play back of your changer from your computer too. This particular feature would require the Slinke. It may also work with mediastorm's activex although no testing has begin with that yet.

Some users have created custom designs which allows them to jump to particular episodes of each Soprano's show.

Pretty neat stuff!

The really cool part is being able to control this from a wireless tablet while sitting on your couch.

Also in development is games that help you to choose a movie. Such as the old game of "memory", but played with DVD movies instead. All the movie posters are turned upside down, try to match two and they become flipped over. The last movie you turn over could be the one you watch. :)
Or how 'bout DVD Survivor, vote a movie off the island with a group of your friends and the last one standing is the movie you all watch.

Mario:

Suffice to say . . . the changer market has weighed in. Now, if you can develop DVD Lobby as a complete DVD changer control with DVD Profiler . . .

You can charge us more than you're doing for DVD Lobby. We'll gladly pay it.

Nick :cool:

I agree with Nick, I for one would be willing to pay for an easy to use, working interface for my two 5900m changers, that would link to DVDProfiler, allow me to sort and to play DVD's. Kenwood, if your listening, it's possible and where do I send the entre for a full refund...oops, did not mean to start griping again.

DV-5900 new, on the net, for $938 . . . hell, I'm tempted. Even if the **** gets discont*****d, it'll still come in handy.

Must exercise discipline, though. Must wait. Sure sounds like another price drop, though.

Do price drops mean that things get discont****d?

Nick :cool:
I Won't Mention the **** Hub

So where on the net, Nick. The problem as I see it, is if it does get disc***, when I fill up the second one (already 1/2 there) and I want to add a third, what am I going to do. For that matter, maybe I should buy 4 more. Daisey chain two sets of three since my receiver has enough inputs to handle the two sets of three. Also, if one breaks you got five more to play with. ummm, should we wait for further price drops? Also can we take the ones we already have back for a full refund, since they don't integrate well with the entre, that means a refund of over $4,000 bucks for me. Than I can go out and get two new ones for less than $2,000 and use the savings of $2,000 to pay Mario for his product.

I have lately started to get a new error message when I try to auto look-up new DVD titles. I get the following error message after the Entre is downloading the DVD information from OG : "DVD information is corrupt. Please enter manually." I get this when trying to auto look-up new DVD titles such as "Beauty and the Beast". I never got this before so I am starting to think that OG have changed the format of the title information (may be a new parameter) and the Entre software has not been updated to handle it - which causes it to believe it is corrupt... Anyone else seen this problem ??

/Lars

Originally posted by zinja
So where on the net, Nick.

www.hookedontronics.com. Now, other than Crutchfield, I don't think there's an internet dealer which is "authorized" by Kenwood (you get the store's warranty) . . . . so . . . you would miss out on that fabulous support package from Kenwood.

Interestingly, a poster on the SMR Forum devoted to Lexicon commented the other day that Kenwood should have charged a lot more for some of the Sovereign products, to attract more of the high end. While the changers are great, I don't think they should charge more for it. What they could have charged more for was the Entre. Irony of ironies.

Speaking of Lexicon, now there's customer support. I have a MC-12B, which was not cheap, but I've now had two software upgrades that were so laden with new features, it just makes me fall more and more in love with this great product. In fact, the one product I've owned that's superior to Entre in features is the MC-12B. If Lexicon were doing this . . . it would be a different story.

The problem as I see it, is if it does get disc***, when I fill up the second one (already 1/2 there) and I want to add a third, what am I going to do. For that matter, maybe I should buy 4 more. Daisey chain two sets of three since my receiver has enough inputs to handle the two sets of three. Also, if one breaks you got five more to play with. ummm, should we wait for further price drops? Also can we take the ones we already have back for a full refund, since they don't integrate well with the entre, that means a refund of over $4,000 bucks for me. Than I can go out and get two new ones for less than $2,000 and use the savings of $2,000 to pay Mario for his product.

Well, it will probably prompt me to get a third changer, Entre be damned. I don't need more than one DV-5900, because I don't use the progressive scan on either of my two units (they get fed to a Faroudja NRS). A second DV-5050M will do fine, since my DV-5900 really is only distinguished for my purposes for DVD-A playback, and the other units daisy chain to it. My "Sub1" unit is a DV-5050M, which is identical to the DV-5900 other than the type of video processing, and the DVD-A playback.

So I'm sticking with the Kenwood changers, at least until something better comes out. Will I demand my money back from Kenwood? On the Entre, probably. Kenwood is stringing its customers along, anyone can see that. So, until it says definitely yea or nay, I'll use it, and if they ever do fix the Entre (gross uproarious laughter), I'll be happy. If they don't, then they've owed me at least its free usage while they've played their game.

Nick :cool:

I have lately started to get a new error message when I try to auto look-up new DVD titles. I get the following error message after the Entre is downloading the DVD information from OG : "DVD information is corrupt. Please enter manually." I get this when trying to auto look-up new DVD titles such as "Beauty and the Beast". I never got this before so I am starting to think that OG have changed the format of the title information (may be a new parameter) and the Entre software has not been updated to handle it - which causes it to believe it is corrupt... Anyone else seen this problem ??

Yep. I saw the same thing when I tried to do the lookup the other night.

Nick, don't know if you noticed, but the site you referred to is "temp out of stock." Ecost.com used to advertise the 5900m for about $400 less than anywhere else. After waiting six months for them to get it "in stock", I gave up and bought at a real dealer. Just goes to show, you can offer to sell at any price, especially if it is out of stock. The 5050 seems too be in stock for less then $700.:)

Originally posted by zinja
Nick, don't know if you noticed, but the site you referred to is "temp out of stock." Ecost.com used to advertise the 5900m for about $400 less than anywhere else. After waiting six months for them to get it "in stock", I gave up and bought at a real dealer. Just goes to show, you can offer to sell at any price, especially if it is out of stock. The 5050 seems too be in stock for less then $700.:)

They had one the other night at $938. It was a buy-it-now on eBay which had the link to their website. It must have been sold. They're a "power" seller on eBay with thousands of good feedback notices. At that time, it was "in stock." Must have been a lonely one.

Nonetheless, the DV-5050M at $618 . . . too tempting. Looks like my fancy menus in the future will come from the new I-Pronto, or my Marantz RC9200, unless Entre is revived from its coma.

Nick :cool:

Well, I for one am not waiting, starting tonight, I will begin to load up the second 5900m, an manually input DVD titles. I bought the entre so I would not have to, but at the end of the day, both the pioneer and sony changers also needed substantial manual input. But the Sony can not daisey chain video and the pioneers are real junk. Besides, they only held 300 DVD's. Just wish the price had drooped before I bought the 5900m's.

Does anyone else find it strange that we haven't heard from David Bott in a long time? We used to get frequent updates from him. He could just be busy but I wonder if he has given up on the Sovereign line??

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
I have a question regarding DV-5900M VCD playback. I just created a VCD that plays perfectly on my InterVideo DVD software.

However, when playing in my 5900M, a very very strange thing happens:

It plays it at 1/2 speed, but in a choppy fashion. As if someone is hitting PLAY and then PAUSE over and over again.
Even more interesting is that if I hit FF once (so it's FFing at 2x play speed), the VCD plays back almost perfectly... but not quite... it still drops many frames, but at least the sound plays back consistently, with very few breaks. I have seen this happen with other VCDs that my friend made as well.

Is this weird or what? What's going on here? Why won't my player play back this VCD properly?

Nearly every VCD I've tried on my 5900 does the exact same thing you were seeing. I tried countless formats, tweaked settings endlessly in Nero, used external encoders, etc. etc. all of which produced the same results as above. I've been toying with the idea of buying a DVD+R to see if I have any better results.

Originally posted by zinja
And I thought the griping on this thread was bad, go to the pinnaclesys.com forum, there are some real professional gripers on those threads.

In the meantime, a more productive use of our time would be to figure a work around for the multi-changer problem. What we need is someone to put out specific particulars about the use of a computer, DVD Profiler and anything else we need to replace the entre. I am no computer expert, but I am not going to wait for the rest of my life, complaining about something that may or may never get fixed. I also like my two 5900m's, cause they really do work better than any other chnager out there. CEDIA has come and gone, time to load up my second changer and move on.

I can't disclose all of the details quite yet but rest assured something is in the works right now. All I can say at this point is that is being done with zero help from Kenwood.

Originally posted by MediaStorm
I can't disclose all of the details quite yet but rest assured something is in the works right now. All I can say at this point is that is being done with zero help from Kenwood.

Really? How unlike Kenwood ;)

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by MediaStorm
I can't disclose all of the details quite yet but rest assured something is in the works right now. All I can say at this point is that is being done with zero help from Kenwood.

And, by the way, MediaStorm . . . if this will make Entre work with up to 3 changers, I for one won't care if it requires the equivalent of sex change surgery on my equipment. Or if it will permit the DVD Profiler/Changer control we've been harping about . . .

Oh, but wait. That could void the warranty and all that incredible support from Kenwood, so . . . hmmm . . .

Like I said, you can make it a Frankenstein monster. If it works, I'll pay. But won't OpenGlobe have to be in on it?

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Nick, luckily a cray supercomputer will now fit in a hall closet. We better run out and get as many 5900m's as possible. I too wonder what happened to Dave and especially Jeff - Jeff are you out there?

I think Medaistorm is referring to programs with an HTPC like DVDLobby 2.0 that has yet to be released.

It doesm't use Openglobe but rather imdb and/or user donated material.

Y'know, I wish I had read this thread before purchasing a 5050 and an Entre. ;) I'm glad to see that Kenwood has an official presence on this thread, but I must say that I find the lack of answers to certain questions rather troubling.

I'm also a bit bothered that problems that were reported last December are still present in the product (although it does seem that considerable improvement has been made).

In particular, I find it vexing that even with the latest and greatest software (which I had to download over the phone line to make the D-Link Ethernet dongle work -- a fact that could have been easily mentioned on the "tips" web site instead of making me call phone support after wasting a couple of hours trying to figure out why a dongle listed on the web site didn't work), something like 30% of my DVDs aren't being recognized. Now, granted, some of these are somewhat unusual discs, but the pattern is puzzling. For example, I purchased the 5-DVD set of the Adventures of Sherlock Holmes (starring Jeremy Brett). The Entre recognized three of the five DVD's. Since the title is essentially the same for all five (except with "Disc 1" etc.), I have no way to do the manual lookup trick. This is someplace where the PC software could really be a big help! Too complicated to present a "multiple hits" UI on the Entre? Then put it on the PC!! It also had trouble with "Thirteen Days", which has been mentioned so many times here as to be totally unfunny.

I'm also a little concerned by the mechanics of this changer. It so happens that I've seen the insides of one of these changers, and I'm really surprised by how it works. Did you know that the entire DVD playback mechanism rotates? When the changer picks up a disc and slides it into the center, the mechanism clamps it in place, then rotates to a "flat" orientation to play the disc. If you ask the changer to flip, the mechanism rotates to an upright position, unloads the disc, then flips over 180 degrees and re-loads the disc. THEN, it rotates to a flat position and plays it. Frankly, this worries me from the standpoint of reliability. It also explains some of the speed issues with switching discs. The rotation seems to take several seconds, and you have to do it twice to switch to another disc.

Compare this to my Sony 860 (which is a complete piece of crud otherwise): the disc slides into the center and plays vertically. If you ask it to flip, the disc is unloaded and the carousel spins around to the other side, where the disc is loaded through a second slot. The playback mechanism remains stationary during this entire process.

Anyway, I think this is a great idea, and in fairness I did buy the changer with the knowledge that the Entre would only control one -- although I still think that sucks -- but like so many CE products these days the implementation seems a bit half-baked.

I'm going to do some more experimentation in the next several days, and I will say that there is one potential show-stopper problem from what I've read here. If I find that the layer-change time is anything over 1 second for more than one or two discs, the units go back. That's completely unacceptable.

Meanwhile, I'm eagerly following the independent efforts to support these changers from an HTPC-based system. I'm willing to test such a system, as I have an HTPC in the rack.

Lastly, I'd like to say one thing: a good friend of mine (the late ReplayBen) was a big believer in proper QA -- a fight we didn't always win at ReplayTV. I'm hoping that the lack of a recent Entre release means that Kenwood learned its lesson from the .7 debacle and is giving plenty of soak time to a new release that will do things like display the disc description, or maybe give us a 6-up or 9-up cover art-only view for browsing.

So, bottom line. Should I buy a DV-5900M now and hope there is compatibility with a future Entre? Is the DV-5900M alone worth the purchase without the Entre? Or if I am not going to have more than 400 discs, is an Entre and DV-5900M a good purchase now? I know it has bugs, I imagine most due. Are the bugs enough to not purchase the DV-5900M or the Entre if using less than 400 discs?
Thanks.

Originally posted by JustMike
Y'know, I wish I had read this thread before purchasing a 5050 and an Entre. ;) I'm glad to see that Kenwood has an official presence on this thread

Ever see that movie, The Others?

I'm going to do some more experimentation in the next several days, and I will say that there is one potential show-stopper problem from what I've read here. If I find that the layer-change time is anything over 1 second for more than one or two discs, the units go back. That's completely unacceptable.

The one criticism that's been a pet-peeve of others, and really never bothered me. If this is what will prompt you to return it, start packing now.

About four years ago, we were still waiting as laser discs changed sides, or then had to be changed to a second disc. There are "flippers" on DVD. I pause the player for plenty of reasons, and a slight two or even three second pause never bothered me. On lots of them.

I'm hoping that the lack of a recent Entre release means that Kenwood learned its lesson from the .7 debacle and is giving plenty of soak time to a new release that will do things like display the disc description, or maybe give us a 6-up or 9-up cover art-only view for browsing.

Ever see that movie, The Others?

Nick :cool:

Steve*MH: I can only say that I have been happy with my Entre and DV-5050M. However having said that, I have to caveat my statement as follows: I knew my DVD collection wouldnt require a second changer anytime soon (only at 95 discs), and I knew all of the shortcomings that existed currently. Would I do it again in the same situation? Yes. Would I do it again if I had 350 DVD's? Nope. The Entre is nice, but if I had 300+ DVD's, I would have opted for a HTPC and something like DVD Lobby. Heck I probably would have done this anyway if my time were more free to setup things, and had time to write some programs, but I dont. Just make sure you dont base your purchase decision on features that have been promised or potentially promised, because my experience with companies that do this is that it never comes to fruition. As for just purchasing the changer, I had my DV-5050M for almost a year before I got the Entre. To be honest, I rarely used it because the menus were so horrible. With the Entre I do find myself watching more DVD's. However if I had taken the time to program my ProntoPro with coverart and disc access commands, I probably would have watched more DVD's that way also.

I have yet to see a layer change take more than about a half second.

Anyone able to give me a specific disk to try (with approx time) to see if there is a difference between units?

Originally posted by Ken Beck
I have yet to see a layer change take more than about a half second.

Anyone able to give me a specific disk to try (with approx time) to see if there is a difference between units?

There were many listed way back in this thread, if you view the thread in a 'printable' format, and then 'all 234578926345 posts at once' you can search the thread for some of them rather quickly.

Thanks for reminding me about that Kirby.

Regarding the 3-sec layer change in Davids next post....Tomb Raider was a solid 3 seconds...I rented it so don't have the details (I suppose some of you wouldn't mind watching it to look for the 3 second delay ). We watched Proof of Life last night and I only saw a 2 second delay ...again a rental.

Checked out Lara Croft: Tomb Raider. The layer change is at 1:31:18 which is a scene change from the ice cave to the mansion at the start of chapter 12 and is definitely less than a second, and so is Crouching Tiger too which is at 1:20:10 before ch 21. I imagine the other titles mentioned (Grinch, Proof of Life, Fast and Furious, Vanilla Sky) will be about the same.

Any other examples? Maybe that Entre is doing it, since I don't (and won't )have one.

I recall testing some layer change times on some of my DVD's before I got my Entre, and had some that were 1.5 to 2 seconds long. I dont remember which discs, but I know it was pre-Entre. Of course I only have the DV-5050M, so that could make a difference. Seems like I remember seeing some posts regarding different Kenwood changers (same model, different serial number range) having different layer change times (alluding to a firmware issue maybe?). I wonder what ever came of that...

Hm. I have both of those DVD's, so I will test those with & without the Entre. Thanks!

(Nick, actually, I haven't seen The Others. :D Is it illustrative?)

FYI -- on more and more of DVDs I rent, I see the layer change intelligently placed during a scene change/black-out moment. They usually go unnoticed in those circumstances.

That said, I have a few DVDs where the layer change is about 3 seconds...but once it's delayed (even a 1/2 second), I'm not quite sure what the difference is between 1/2 second and 3 seconds-- you're interrupted either way.

Well, I sort of agree that any delay is too much (seriously, how much RAM are we talking about here to buffer over that change?) but I disagree that there's not too much difference between 1/2 sec and 3. It's a 6x difference, after all! ;) 1/2 sec is just long enough to say, "Huh." Whereas 3 seconds is just about long enough to say "Huh. I thought I got rid of these stupid delays when I switched from LD to DVD!"

I have people over all the time to watch movies on my 10' screen. It's a very cinematic experience, except for the irritating layer-change delay. Invariably, even with a fairly quick changeover on my Sony, people say "what the heck was that"? I would seriously buy a DVD player that had an internal HDD or large RAM buffer to compensate for this problem.

JustMike, in some respects I agree with you, just add more ram, in anotherwise reliable machine. Also whole Kenwood is at it, add a better GUI to its standalone machines. That being said, its the best multichanger in the market today. My two machines hum, but they at least work, hold 400+, can be daisey chained with three, and the list goes on. As much as I hate the lack of entre support, I would not change out these machines because of a 3 second delay (which has never disturbed me anyway). These monsters are especially desirable if you can pick up the 5900m for less than $1,000. I have tried sony and pioneer and their shortcomings are far more troublesome.

(Just)Mike,

I agree with zinja... and I think I've said it about 30 times in this thread... but if you care a lick about DVD-Audio and believe that all of your music belongs in one library (CDs, DVD-A, MP3 discs, etc.), then the 5900M is ahead of everyone by miles. My 5900M is 90% CDs, 10% DVD-A, 10% DVD-V.

But, if you are just using it only as a DVD-V changer, and have an external scaler (ie., don't need built-in Faroudja), then maybe a Pioneer or Sony DVD changer would be better for you, due to the layer change delay issue.

And regarding the UI issues of the changer... finding out about SuperNudeList will make the UI in the changer just about moot! What a great app.

OK, don't yell at me if this is the wrong spot. When moving multiple MP3's from a computer to the Entre via the Entre Media Manager, how can you do it without "dragging and dropping" one song at a time? Thanks.

Originally posted by DerekFSU
OK, don't yell at me if this is the wrong spot. When moving multiple MP3's from a computer to the Entre via the Entre Media Manager, how can you do it without "dragging and dropping" one song at a time? Thanks.

Here is how I do it. Open Media Manager, it should default to the Library tab in the bottom left. Expand (click + symbol) "My Computer" icon and browse to the drive/folder where your MP3s are located. It will display them in the large window to the upper right. Click the box next to each MP3 you want to import and a little red check will appear. After you have selected the ones you want, right click your mouse on one of the songs and choose "Import Tagged Files". Boom, they're in and ready to transfer when you Sync the Library.

!!!CAUTION!!! It has been my experience that transferring too many MP3s at once will cause my Entre' to freeze up and have to be rebooted. I can't seem to get it to do more than 10 or so at once, so now I do them in groups of 5 to 8.

Bob

I have been talking to some guys working on HTPC control of the Kenwood changers, and have been told that it looks like the problem with multichanger support may be in the Kenwood Changers not the Entre.

It appears that the changer's firmware may be broken and not responding to it's OWN address (MAIN SUB1 SUB2) when sent down the daisy cable, but rather ANY address!

FWIW

Can Kenwood changers be field upgraded for new firmware (if they ever fix it)?

That is bad news for the Entre, but not so bad for the PC crowd. This should be a piece of cake with a serial port card.

I would think that the Entre could be made to control two changers without too much headache by using the second serial port on the Entre (the one intended for the receiver). Unless of course it's not a "real" second port or something else funky. Of course, that would prevent using the receiver.

I still need to see the juken.log(s) to confirm that ...

but, if true would mean a changer firmware upgrade and entre software upgrade (both possible IMHO)

Rob

Doesn't the Entre have USB? Is so you could add as many serial ports as you wanted.

The question, of course, is what form a changer upgrade would take: replacing a PROM or doing something nicer via the serial port. My guess is PROM.

if the entre simply had drivers written to support usb serial adapters (and an external usb hub), then the thing could control many changers ... of course a PC with serial cards or usb serial adapters has no problem there :)

it does look like the kenwood serial protocol does ignore the "changer" number when requests are issued ...

if the entre was a linux based box, then this would all be done by now, but from what I've heard its qnx or god forbid windows based ...

Rob

Good point! The USB should be easy-ish. Although, if the changers reply without properly setting their unit identification or something, that would make things a bit harder (but not too bad as long as you can tell which port it's coming from).

holy cow. that is breaking news. so all this time the issue might have been the players and not the entre?

Hopefully if you can tap into the serial ports to control the players, you can still use the daisy chain for video only?

This makes the htpc solution a little bit more complicated because now you have to use multiple serial ports. How do you pass a command to something like Girder that includes the serial port? I am sort of hazy on that point.

Jon, "finding out about SuperNudeList will make the UI in the changer just about moot! What a great app."

How does the SuperNudeList make the chnage UI moot. Please explain, I think I downloaded SuperNudeList (no not a list of nude super models), about two years ago, but never figured out what to do with it.

Originally posted by JustMike
(Nick, actually, I haven't seen The Others. :D Is it illustrative?)

It was in reference to Kenwood's "presence" on this thread. Hint: It's a ghost story.

However . . . I currently have a DV-5900 filled, and a DV-5050 about 110 discs into it. One thing I will say about the Kenwoods, even without the Entre, is that they represent the only true daisy-chaining changers that fanatics will use. The Pioneer--which I've owned--will permit daisy chaining a second player, but only one gets to use component video outputs . . . nope. The Sony would permit daisy-chaining a second unit, but I think the second unit was restricted to CD playback . . . a thousand times, no.

If you try to add more units independent of daisy chaining, you get remote-control confusion. That problem could be solved with an IR router, a process I had commenced, but even then you still need multiple inputs on your A/V preamp/processor or your video display. Or, you could do what I also did for a while, i.e., have one Sony and one Pioneer at the same time. I've got a CRT projector which I actually have upgraded to 3 inputs (and I have a great RGB/component video switcher), but it all gets a little cumbersome. With the Kenwood, I can go up to 1200 discs, with only one digital output to the preamp, one set of component video outputs to my projector, and I get to use one remote control.

And, as Jon commented, DVD-Audio is hugely important to me. I can honestly see myself one day having a changer filled with nothing but DVD-A discs. I'm already at about fifty, in a relatively short time.

I have strong reason to believe that Entre's sales are woeful. I have a client who owns a Home Theater store, and have some word from the distributor that there are multi-state regions in the country in which not one Entre has been sold. I, unfortunately, was one of the people that bought at a time when Entre was "supposed" to control more than one changer. I'm one of the original guys on this board to have one, and I've been complaining about Kenwood's failure in that regard since day one. Kenwood has really not helped on this issue, because if you read through this thread, you'll detect some gamesmanship by Kenwood, which gets compounded by its coyness on the subject.

I would love the opportunity to purchase a competing product, and dump all this stuff back on Kenwood's lawn. But, I unfortunately don't have that opportunity. As lousy as Kenwood has been on support and rectifying indisputable failures, the changers alone represent the best performing and most versatile ever made. Where do I go for another changer that daisy chains? Where do I go for a changer with DVD-Audio? Nowhere but Kenwood Sovereign. That doesn't excuse what they've done with Entre, but it still makes sense for me to stick with these changers until something better comes along.

Nick :cool:

The Girder serial plugin I use allows you to specify the COM port that you want it to talk to, so that should be pretty easy.

The interesting part would be getting DVD Lobby or whatever to understand that there are multiple changers and to aggregate the data together properly. I would assume that this would work because of the support for SLink-e (which supports multiple changers).

Zinja,

Super-Nudelist (http://www.compsoc.net/~leo/nudelist/) is an application designed to compliment the Philips Pronto and Marantz RC5x00 remote controls.

It works in conjunction with the PC editor for the remote control, and essentially merges a list of your discs that you make/manage in your changer with your remote control's configuration file.

So, I took a file from my NetNamerDV directory, cleaned it up to make it a comma-seperated file, imported into Super Nudelist, and then have SNL generate a special config file for my remote.

Now my Marantz remote has every disc in my changer in interface... I select the first character of the artist, and then it gives me a screen with the lists of artists starting with that letter... then I select the artist name, and a list of the CDs by that artists are displayed. Then I select the CD, and the Marantz remote sends the appropriate disc # select commands to the 5900M. And presto, disc is playing without touching the UI of the 5900M.

You can decided how you want to navigate (by artist, disc title, etc), and to what level of depth (down to track level detail).

The added benefit of this is that you can select a new CD *while the current CD is playing* -- something not possible using the 5900M's UI.

Hope this makes sense...

Nick, you have caused my newest problem. After reading about how much you like DVD audio, I actually went out and bought Hotel Calif and Doobie Brother - Captain and Me. Now I need to know how to set up the 5900m and entre to take advantage of DVD audio. So far I have figured out that by switching to DVD Video On in the main mode, it the changer will paly either DTS or Dolby digital. But when I switch to Video Off (in main screen), the changer reflects that is in DVD audio mode, but output is only to center channel (for Doobie Brothers) or to the main speakers in the Hotel Calif disk. Obvioulsy something is not set right.

I have the entre, two 5900m's (one connected to the entre, the other directly to the receiver). I have the Yamaha RX-V1 and martin logan main speakers, martin logan center, yamaha powered sub. B&K's for the rear and two front effect speakers. Connections between the entre and receiver is with optical cable.

oops, that boston speakers

Zinja,

Because DVD-Audio is an ultra-hi-resolution format, and due to misc. copy protection issues, you need to connect the DV-5900M to your receiver via the 6 analog connections. Digital connections will not work for true DVD-A playback.

Hook up the 5900M's 6 analog outputs (L, R, C, SL, SR, sub) to the receiver's 6-channel inputs... then make sure the receiver is set for "pure audio" or "analog pass-thru" or similar mode -- ensuring that the analog signal is being sent directly to the volume and out the speakers... you do not want your Yamaha doing any kind of digitizing of the signal.

Let me know if this helps.

Oh, and if you're getting into DVD-Audio, I highly recommend buying Big Phat Band's Swingin' for the Fences DVD-Audio disc.

It'll blow you away..and you don't need to love swing either...

Thanks Jon, I had a feeling that I read somewhere that it required analog connections, but I wasn't sure. Guess its going to have to wait till the weekend, since I'll have to dismantle a few things to get to the back of my 5900m and receiver. Plus I'll have to find six 18 foot cables, oh boy, wife is going to freak out. I must have five thousand dollars invested in cables alone...all too short.

Now, is DVD audio that superior to DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1?

Originally posted by zinja
Now, is DVD audio that superior to DTS or Dolby Digital 5.1?

Quite.

Nick :cool:

Okay, seriously, what the heck is wrong with this thing, or with what I'm doing?!

I've been trying out the disc identification features of my Entre in combination with the 5050M changer. I've been reading here that people have pretty high hit rates with the auto disc identification features.

And yet, I just added a whole slew of discs, and it recognized much less than half of them. Examples:

1) Sopranos Second Season: no
2) Fawlty Towers: 1 disc of 3
3) Simpsons First Season: 1 disc of 4
4) IMAX space DVD's: 0 of 3

What the h*ll?

zinja,

If you're serious about DVD-Audio don't forget to configure the bass management settings in the 5900's audio setup screens. If you don't, the results might be much less than impressive. I learned this through experience.

Ken

Mike:

Sopranos Season 2 is out there. Don't know about the rest of them.

However . . . I have found the auto disc lookup less reliable, particularly after the software upgrade this past summer.

Sometimes the Entre would not find information with auto disc lookup, but, when you go into the "setup" menu, "changer management," you get a different result when you do a "range" lookup. This even means a range of one disc (i.e., lookup "all discs" ranging in number from 155 to 155--as an example).

Even if the auto disc lookup doesn't detect the title initially, it should detect the fact that it is a DVD, and it will appear under the "U" section, for "Unknown DVD." The Entre should at least show the character of the disc. Then, you may have to enter the title in a disc edit, and search by title, not look up disc.

I would strongly suggest one of the wireless keyboards for Entre. Although I had some difficulty with mine early on, it works like a charm and its need may be more frequent than you think.

Nick :cool:

Hi JustMike,

Nice to see you in these parts.

Originally posted by JustMike
That is bad news for the Entre, but not so bad for the PC crowd. This should be a piece of cake with a serial port card.

Not so much a piece of cake, but more like a piece of pie where you have to grow the fruit yourself and then make the pie from scratch. :) I've been wrestling with this issue for some time. I have the following (1) a ProGear wireless touchpanel PC (from our friends at sonicBLUE), (2) all my disks cataloged in DVD Profiler, (3) DVD Lobby running on the ProGear, and (4) a PC connected to the Kenwood.

To make it work, at present, there are myriad problems: first you have to get your disk info out of DVD Profiler and into DVD Lobby. One prerequisite to this is that your DVD Profiler collection number has to be the same as the slot number in the Kenwood. Then you have to export from DVD Proflier into DVD Lobby. The program that used to do this isn't compatible with DVD Proviler 2.0, so if you've upgraded (which you essentially have to do to keep using the program with its current online database), you're out of luck. There is another program that will move the date, but that requires that you have MS Access 2000, which I don't have and don't want. Assuming that you can get the data into DVD Lobby, you then have to find an application that will transmit commands from the touchpanel to the PC and configure that. Then you have to have a second program on the PC to send commands to the Kenwood. All of these at present seem to be batch files that must be manually configured for each disk. If you jump through all of these hoops, you have a working system, but those are a lot of hoops to have to jump through for that piece of pie. No one has come up with anything resembling a turnkey solution, or even to document all the steps I've outlined above. And eliminating the touch panel by using a single HT PC connected to a video monitor only eliminates the step of getting the panel to talk to the PC connected to the Kenwood. Everything else stays the same.

Forgive the long message, but the point is that while this can be done, it isn't easy or straight forward. It is of interest to me because I have no use for the Entre as I already have an ARQ music server and never listen to internet radio, and the Entre seems too expensive to use as just a fancy remote control for one changer.

rbienstock,
Your message is right on. Those are all of the things that should be taken care of on the next release of DVDLobby Pro 2.0.

You can still use DVDProfiler to catalog your titles. DVDLobby Pro 2 will import without the need for a 3rd party program. Until a serial option is available, you'll need the Slinke to control your changer. Just select your changer and voila! You are ready to go.

rbienstock, what's an "ARQ music server" ? I am looking for options to replace the Entre for MP3 storage, with an open interface where I can easily access/manage MP3's from my PC hooked up on the same network.

Originally posted by K_Thompson
zinja,

If you're serious about DVD-Audio don't forget to configure the bass management settings in the 5900's audio setup screens. If you don't, the results might be much less than impressive. I learned this through experience.

Ken

Ken,

This is an EXCELLENT point and one that has had more than one person scratching their head trying to figure out where all the bass went. It's also one feature that is very easy to overlook.

Thanks for the reminder.

Originally posted by mcascio
rbienstock,
Your message is right on. Those are all of the things that should be taken care of on the next release of DVDLobby Pro 2.0.

You can still use DVDProfiler to catalog your titles. DVDLobby Pro 2 will import without the need for a 3rd party program. Until a serial option is available, you'll need the Slinke to control your changer. Just select your changer and voila! You are ready to go.

A serial option IS coming.. I promise.

The ARQ is a high-end music server made by Audio Request. You can get more info here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?s=&forumid=39), here (http://www.request.com) and here (http://216.122.166.140/cgi-bin/wwwthreads/wwwthreads.pl).

If you really want to go high end and have $20K to drop, you could go with the new Meridian 880 described here (http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=15542773).

Originally posted by mcascio
rbienstock,
Your message is right on. Those are all of the things that should be taken care of on the next release of DVDLobby Pro 2.0.

You can still use DVDProfiler to catalog your titles. DVDLobby Pro 2 will import without the need for a 3rd party program. Until a serial option is available, you'll need the Slinke to control your changer. Just select your changer and voila! You are ready to go.

Mario,

IMO, the single most important missing link is the documentation. It is clear that the pieces exist to do what is necessary, either now with the Slinke of later with a serial controller. The real missing link is detailed step-by-step instructions on how to make it work as a package. Thus it isn't a hardware or software problem so much as a systems integration problem. Those who use sophisticated remote systems like Crestron have third party integrators doing the heavy lifting for them. We do-it-yourselfers don't. I've looked at all the individual pieces of hardware and software and I think that I understand how they work. But putting everything together as a system makes my head ache. This is where help is most needed.

Mario, I'm sure you have plenty of beta-test volunteers already, but please count me in as well! :)

I tried doing the "range" lookup and it had the same results as the regular. As far as I can tell, the disc lookup is simply defective. I may try the "blow the Entre's brains out and start over" route, but that would really p*ss me off since I would then have to re-download by phone the software that makes my Ethernet dongle work...

umm... just a note guys ...

a slinke won't work with a kenwood (its for sony's)

Originally posted by JustMike
Mario, I'm sure you have plenty of beta-test volunteers already, but please count me in as well! :)

I tried doing the "range" lookup and it had the same results as the regular. As far as I can tell, the disc lookup is simply defective. I may try the "blow the Entre's brains out and start over" route, but that would really p*ss me off since I would then have to re-download by phone the software that makes my Ethernet dongle work...

And, Mike, I didn't mean to suggest it was bullet proof. Stick around, however, the news gets worse (though not bad, really). I've got a full DV-5900. Due to some problems referenced earlier in this thread, I had to do several full downloads (the changer locked . . . wouldn't respond to Entre). In each case, I was missing or had errors in lots of discs (there were several forms of duplication errors, one that was commonly reported, another where Entre would give one slot the identity of the disc in the preceding slot . . .where it was also identified).

Bottom line, however, is that I had to do a lot of the manual entry in the edit disc function. That's where the $39 keyboard comes in handy, i.e., far more facile control of the Entre. The keyboard that I've used (and was recommended on the Kenwood website) is the Logitech Y-RC14. It helps this process enormously, and doesn't prompt you to throw it all away.

Good luck.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by rbienstock
Mario,

IMO, the single most important missing link is the documentation. It is clear that the pieces exist to do what is necessary, either now with the Slinke of later with a serial controller. The real missing link is detailed step-by-step instructions on how to make it work as a package. Thus it isn't a hardware or software problem so much as a systems integration problem. Those who use sophisticated remote systems like Crestron have third party integrators doing the heavy lifting for them. We do-it-yourselfers don't. I've looked at all the individual pieces of hardware and software and I think that I understand how they work. But putting everything together as a system makes my head ache. This is where help is most needed.

rbienstock,
Once again I agree. Although I do have quite a bit of info on the Cinemar website as well as a step-by-step guide as far as integrating with the old Profiler. Dan's program also has documentation included. The next version should be so much simpler and eliminate so many steps it will be a piece of cake.

Mediastorm,
Looking forward to your serial control.

JustMIke,
There have been quite a few volunteers for betas. I want to make more developments before taking any preorders or beta testers.

umm... just a note guys ... a slinke won't work with a kenwood (its for sony's)

Ahhh...common misconception.

Actually - it works with any device that uses IR. It only allows Slink connection to Sony's.

Per the Nirvis (Slinke) website:
The Slink-e is a small (5" x 5") microcontroller based unit which allows your computer to communicate with infrared (IR), S-Link, Control-A, and Control-S devices such as audio and video equipment. The Slink-e interfaces to your computer using a standard RS-232 serial port, so it can work with most computers and operating systems.

The Slink-e allows your computer to control or be controlled by Sony S-Link and IR devices from most manufacturers.

I'm controlling a JVC vcr right now from my computer via MainLobby through the Slinke's IR.

I think we should make it easier to get info/talk about DVDlobby, DVDprofiler,Slink etc by moving it to its own post. Mixing it in with Entre is kinda like tennis we go back and forth between the Kenwood stuff and it.

Even though they are connected in a way.

rbienstock,

Well-stated, I've got a Progear, computer, 5500M, and same issues. I'd be happy if Mario stopped focussing on MainLobby and spent more time of DVDLobby. (Hint, Hint):)

I am hooking up cables for DVDAudio. But the entre does not seem to have a six channel audio out, do I connect the cables directely to the 5900m?

Zinja,

Yes -- connect the six analog channels directly to the 6-channel inputs of your receiver. And, again, make sure that your receiver is setup for "pure audio" or whatever mode it has where it doesn't introduce its own DSPs into the process. Also, remember to set your bass management settings on your 5900M so that the bass is properly routed if you do not have full-range speakers across the board.

Zinj:

If you can identify the type of receiver you have, perhaps there's some one that has one.

Generally, like Jon said, you'll go from the 6 channel analog outputs of the DV-5900 into the 6 channel analog inputs of the receiver. Then, you'll want to choose the "analog bypass" mode (or "pure audio" or whatever it's called), so that you're not getting the digital signal from your DV-5900 (the digital signal will carry a downmixed two channel version of the DVD-A disc, not the MLP 5.1 that you want).

Make sure that, once you've got the disc up and running itself, you choose the DVD-A track from the disc menu. It usually defaults there, but there are two channel tracks on them as well.

It's been awhile since I did the audio management in the DV-5900, but I think there's a selection of large and small, and I recall that there's a formula (literally) in there, dealing with delays.

If you're just giving DVD-A a try, you may want to request which discs show it off the best. There are some bad titles, particularly from Silverline, that won't. Hotel California is a safe bet, however. I can provide others if you like.

Nick :cool:

Nick thanks for the reply. I have a Yamaha rx-v1. It has a direct 6 channel input that by-passes the digital processing. I ran the cables directly from my second 5900m (thereby excluding the entre completely). Since the first changer is full of movies (Kenwood, please, prettty please get the three changer control problem fixed ASAP, or you will get back the entre and none of my other rich friends will buy your products), I have decided to load all DVD audio into the second changer (as it is only half full of movies).

Fired it up and it works. Bass management, I assume that is where I can select the various speakers and adjust the volume and delay. If there is another bass management menu please advise. Otherwise it seems to be working.

Thanks after all this is what this forum is for, that and letting Kenwood know that we love them and wish they would love us back by fixing the entre to control three changers as they promised and advertised. Afterall, its easier and cheaper to fix the multi-changer problem than to fix one's reputation once it has been ruined.

Bass management is actually not about volume and delay, but about setting which speakers are "large" and which are "small" so that bass can be steered away from the smaller speakers into ones that can properly reproduce it. I don't know where this is on the Kenwood equipment since I bought a 5050.

Greetings,

Okay, interesting data points. I've been rackmounting all my equipment for the last couple of days. This morning, I finally got the 100-baseT network up and going in the rack so I hooked up the Entre and put another disc in the 5050.

As it usually does, the Entre woke up and realized that there was a new disc as well as some that it hadn't identified before. So, it then began to query OpenGlobe.

Surprise, surprise, more than half of the previously-unrecognized discs are now recognized! This includes the rest of the Simpsons set and the Sopranos, as well as one of the two unidentified Fawlty Towers discs. So, in other words, the OpenGlobe web site or the communication to it was at fault.

Theory: I suspect that if the connection times out or otherwise has problems, the Entre marks the disc as "unrecognized". This is a PIA because then you don't know why it wasn't recognized. It should put up an indication indicating that the connection failed. (Of course, this is all my surmise).

Now, the conundrum. One of the Fawlty Towers discs (disc 1) was mis-labeled as some movie called "Styx" from 2000 starring Peter Weller.

Okay, I thought, I'll just do the manual title search. So, I typed in "Fawlty Towers". It hit OpenGlobe, and came back with...... "Styx", starring Peter Weller. WTF?

Lastly, one remaining problem/question. Some of the discs which I had to manually edit before are still showing my manually-edited data. Since OpenGlobe seems to be working so wonderfully well today, I'd like to give it another crack. How do I get the Entre to forget what it found before and do it fresh?

Originally posted by JustMike
Bass management is actually not about volume and delay, but about setting which speakers are "large" and which are "small" so that bass can be steered away from the smaller speakers into ones that can properly reproduce it. I don't know where this is on the Kenwood equipment since I bought a 5050.

That's true, but both bass management and delay time settings are dealt with in the DV-5900. The DV-5050M does not have the custom speaker setup that the DV-5900 does.

At page 78 of the manual, instructions begin for bass management. There is a custom speaker setting for only the DV-5900, and it first deals with "large" or "small" speaker settings. It's pretty basic, since it just sets a 100Hz crossover point (anything under 100Hz gets rolled off to subs or mains, if they can handle it). There's also a subwoofer "on" and "off" setting, depending on whether one is in the system.

The delay settings are found at page 81. You get to have fun with the cool sounding formula --"(A = Df - Dc)"--but it's actually about three or four choices for distances. This sets the delays for center and surrounds. However, the delay only works in Dolby Digital, but it should be set anyway. I know I've set this in my DV-5900 but . . . hmmm . . . don't know if I've set it in the DV-5050, as I've only really put it into active duty the last month or so. It appears from the manual that the delay settings exist in both players, but I'll have to check.

The Entre cooperates to a limited extent. It generally will differentiate between a "DVD" disc, and a "DVD-Audio" disc, and a new "column" appears at the top of the Entre menu when you load a DVD-A disc that it recognizes to be such.

If anyone wants to hear how good DVD-Audio sounds, check out the new Alanis Morissette DVD-A, Under Rug Swept. Just got it yesterday. Ignore the vacuous and painfully superficial lyrics that just sort of claw from the chalk board (I wish it were in a language I didn't understand), and listen to multichannel high resolution audio which sounds better than anything I've ever heard. Catchy tunes, too, but the girl's mind needs something like a war, or torture to begin to balance it out . . . but the sound . . . I'll stake this as a DVD-A showoff disc anyday.

Nick :cool:

Thanks everyone, I changed the settings on the 5900m to shoot to "normal" speakers for the surround and center and large for the mains. I adjusted the delay, adjusted the decibels per speaker, using my handy radio shack sound meter. At first the subwoofer was not working and I began to think about having to pull out all of the equipment to see why. Luckily, at the last minute, I checked to see if the subwoofer was on. Apparently the wife turned it off for some reason or another (ok maybe it shakes the whole house when I watch Pearl Harbor or some other war movie.) Lesson in life, when subwoofer aint working, blame it on the wife.

Now the only problem is that after spending so much time adjusting using the only two DVD aud disks that I own, I can't stand to listen to Hotel Calif or the Doobie Brothers one more time. Ya'll should have warned me to use DVD audio disks that I don't like, to do the adjustments.

Okay, even simpler question: is there any way to make the Entre forget a database entry it has, without forcing it to forget all of them?

What I'm seeing is this: if I've looked up a disc before, or edited before, and then I ask the Entre to look it up again, it first looks in its local DB and says "hey, I already have information about this disc; no need to hit the OpenGlobe" site. I can't figure out how to force it to hit OG for a fresh look.

what about blanking out all the info? Maybe then it would treat it as a new disc?

Originally posted by JustMike
Okay, even simpler question: is there any way to make the Entre forget a database entry it has, without forcing it to forget all of them?


Mike K, It's not clear exactly how you are doing the look up (range x-y or range x-x or edit disk then search for disc button).

This post was from Jeff and about music but I was guessing it was the same for DVDs. HTH

Posted by JD-NH on 08-31-02 02:16 PM:
Bob-
To have the system do a fresh lookup for a disc:
Go to "Music" guide
Highlight the disc you'd like to edit
Press "Options"
select "Edit Disc"
select "lookup this disc"
the unit will contact Openglobe and re-d0 the TOC lookup.

That tip from Jeff did not help me. The Entre' insisted (as Mike has stated) that the disc info was stored locally and refused to contact Gracenote for an update. I think I ended up (1) Removing the disc from the changer (2) Waiting for the Entre' to update my list so that that disc was gone (3) Power off the Entre' and Changer (4) Turn changer and Entre' back on (5)Reboot the Entre' (6) Put the disc back into the changer. After all that, the Entre' actually connected to Gracenote and downloaded the correct info.

Yeah, I know, sounds like voodoo huh.

Bob

Okay, I've just about had it. :mad: I think the Entre goes back. This software is simply not production quality, in my opinion.

Scott, I appreciate the comments, but I've tried all of those. I tried lookup x-x, x-y, lookup all, edit/search, and edit/lookup. To no avail.

Here's what I did: I completely reset my unit to factory default (using the 5555 screen), then let it re-download its new software, then set it up again for Ethernet. Then I let it re-scan the changer.

I still get totally bizarre results. Examples:

1) I get volumes 2 and 4, but not 1, 3 and 5 of the "Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" set. And, even if I manually enter the whole title ("Adventures of Sherlock Holmes - Vol. 1, The"), it still doesn't find the correct disc information or art. (I also tried "The Adventures of Sherlock Holmes - Vol. 1" and "Adventures of Sherlock Holmes - Vol. 1" to no avail. "Adventures of Sherlock" turns up volume 2)

2) I get discs 2 and 3 of "Fawlty Towers - The Complete Collection", but disc 1 is mis-identified as "Styx" -- even if I manually enter "Fawlty Towers" into the search feature!

3) Of the 49 discs I put in, 11 are not identifiable by the system. I don't find this too alarming for some of the more esoteric stuff, but still it's quite bad.

4) I put in a bunch of CD's. All were recognized, although 10 of them had to be looked up from the Edit/Lookup screen; they had failed just before when doing a batch lookup.

Jeff Coates from Kenwood hasn't tuned in for about three weeks, so in the hopes that he's still reading, let me pose a direct question:

Jeff, are the problems I've described above going to be fixed? If so, when? I have about a week left before my 30-day return period runs out, and I need a real answer.

The multi-changer support is not an urgent issue for me (although it will become one), and I'm still not sure about the layer change. But, if the basic feature of disc identification doesn't work, the product is not worth the money to me.

Originally posted by JustMike
...I think the Entre goes back.
.... Jeff, are the problems I've described above going to be fixed? If so, when? I have about a week left before my 30-day return period runs out, and I need a real answer.
... But, if the basic feature of disc identification doesn't work, the product is not worth the money to me.

Mike,
From past post it does sound like you are certainly a power user and would like the HTPC interface better. I say this because I'm guessing there is more to it than the disk lookup issue for the reasons you want to take back the Entre. It can be frustrating and has annoyed many people but...you only need too look up or edit DVDs once (generally) when you add them to your mega-changer. It is not like this is an issue that constantly would be annoying...ie. like a user interface issue that you had to deal with everytime you used the product. Hope that makes sense.

For grins I did a lookup in DVD Profiler 2.0 for "Adventures of Sherlock Holmes" using 'Add By Title' search. 6 entries. All unique release dates, all unique UPCs and years of 83, 84 and 85. My point is that we all know why the lookup is difficult to implement perfectly. There are a lot of "same" disc out there. In any event this whole topic has been discussed quite a bit in past threads.

So you may want to take it back then later if you decided you could live with the faults you can always pick it up again or perhaps a HTPC interface will fit the bill.

Also we know that KW does work with OG on these issues. They even gave us an e-mail address ( dvdtitles@kenwoodusa.com ) to send mail to for titles that OG couldn't find. This did not originally exist. I typically point them to my DVD Profiler entry on the web <grin> then they have the details (UPC, etc). You also could use "E-mail hot line at EntreReports@kenwoodusa.com for you to submit any problems you encounter. " but I haven't hear of many using it or it's effectiveness.

Regards,

Originally posted by DeadSock
umm... just a note guys ...

a slinke won't work with a kenwood (its for sony's)

As Mario pointed out the Slinke will work with any IR based device as well. There are cheaper solutions if you only need IR but if you have any Sony equipment the Slinke is a no-brainer.

Strong points of the Slinke:

1) Robust IR features including multiple zones and the ability to use the Slinke as an IR repeater from zone to zone.

2) 8 Digitial I/O connections that can be used for triggering relays and etc.

3) CDJ. An exceptional Jukebox app for integrating MP3 and Sony based CD changers. Build drag and drop playlists and etc.

4) Open architecture. A well executed and documented ActiveX interface makes it very easy to leverage the Slinke's features.

The Slinke was very well thought out from the start and is still one of those purchases that you wonder how you lived without it after you have it. The only downside is that the lead developer and brains behind the Slinke (Colby Boyles) left to join forces with Microsoft when MS purchased Nirvis. (Yes, Nirvis is a Microsoft company).

Hey Scott, thanks for the thoughts.

If the Entre would work properly on unrecognized discs if I just entered the titles, then that would be okay with me, as I could deal with the initial filling of the Changer and then the occasional manual entry of the search string.

But, the completely bizarre results with Fawlty Towers (how does a NAME SEARCH turn up a totally unrelated title?!) and the inability to select from among multiple matches makes it basically impossible to get the cover art and so forth for some of those discs. That I won't live with.

Also, while it doesn't sound like it would be too bad to have to manually intervene when filling the changer, consider the options:

1 I can fill the changer, keeping track manually of which disc went in each slot (incredibly tedious for 400 discs). Then, let the Entre scan the changer and finally fill in any missing titles from my list.

or

2) Just fill the changer, let it auto-fill, and then play each unrecognized disc so I can figure out what disc it is and then manually enter the title.

Either way it's a lot of work. Less work, granted, than manually entering the names for all 300 discs in my Sony. But, it's probably at least 50% of that work given the need to either keep track of disc titles or spend a lot of time playing unrecognized discs.

Unfortunately, I bought the Entre open-box at about half price. If I return it, then it's unlikely that I'd be able to get one again at the same price. I wouldn't pay more than what I paid, either.

Sigh.

Mike,

I suspect you'll have plenty of Entres to choose from come January (xmas present return month).

My Entre strategy:

Watch to see if there are any future software upgrades for the Entre. If so, and it becomes stable and useful, and support for multiple changers arrives, buy an open-box or used one in January or February.

For now, I am very happy with my Marantz RC5200 & Super-NudeList managing my 5900M changer!

Originally posted by JustMike

Also, while it doesn't sound like it would be too bad to have to manually intervene when filling the changer, consider the options:

1 I can fill the changer, keeping track manually of which disc went in each slot (incredibly tedious for 400 discs). Then, let the Entre scan the changer and finally fill in any missing titles from my list.



But . . . if you bite the bullet once and use DVD Profiler as a "list" of where each disc is located in each changer, it will make things much easier down the road. If you don't have 400 discs, your Entre tells you what slot number each one is in.

Then, as you add discs, add them one at a time, with the appropriate slot number, to DVD Profiler. In the event you ever ditch the Entre, you'll want that list.

Nick :cool:

With all the talk about remote controlling the Kenwoods, that brings to mind what has now, for me, become the biggest problem with my 5900: the fact that when you turn it on, it automatically starts to play the last disk you were watching. So far the only solution I've found is to leave the unit on all the time and to remember to press stop twice in order to stop the current disk from spinning when you aren't watching it. This turns out not to do that (or else something else is wrong) because I am now on my third 5900. The two units that failed, both failed in the same way: the unit stopped being able to read the disk essentially because the turntable stops spinning. Thus I can select the disk and the changer delivers it to the turntable, and can even flip the disk, but the turntable itself doesn't spin. To make matters worse, if you do turn the unit off, when you turn it on and it does start to play the last disk, it takes lots of button pushing and waiting to get control of the unit back. What does everyone here do? Is there any fix for this?

if you hit:

power, stop, delay, stop

the last disc will not play. It will still read the disc and do it's thing, but it will not play it.

your problem sounds more like the famous unreadable disc problem. The only cure for that is to turn off the unit for a specified amount of time. I don't know that amount of time is, but surely longer than 5 minutes. When it happens to me, about once every 2-3 months, I just pull it out, turn it off and watch the movie and my Pioneer. Next day the player is fine.

Originally posted by slocko
if you hit: power, stop, delay, stop the last disc will not play. It will still read the disc and do it's thing, but it will not play it. Well that's better than nothing, but still a royal pain, given that it takes a pretty long time just to read the disk/

Your problem sounds more like the famous unreadable disc problem. The only cure for that is to turn off the unit for a specified amount of time. I don't know that amount of time is, but surely longer than 5 minutes. When it happens to me, about once every 2-3 months, I just pull it out, turn it off and watch the movie and my Pioneer. Next day the player is fine. Um. Interesting. I'll have to try that if it happens again. I've followed this thread sporadically, and I must have missed the discussion on that issue.

Sysop,

This thread now has over 1300 messages, more than some of the individual forums here on AVS. Given the obvious interest in discussing these Kenwood players and the Entre here, wouldn't it make sense to open a Kenwood section so that messages on different topics sould be read, tracked and easily searched by topic, rather than having all the messages in one gigantic thread?

rbienstock,

I've created a macro on my Home Theater Master MX-700 remote that turns on the power to the 5900 and then sends two stop commands with a half second delay between them. This prevents the 5900 from performing it's auto-play-last-disk-at-powerup "feature".

Ken

That is my theory anyway and it works for me. You can get an unreadable disc from a dirty disc. It has been my observation that if you don't stop the player the moment it begins to freeze (dirty disc) you will get that unreadable disc problem. If you do get it, no disc will play after that.

But I have also seen it happen with brand new discs that played previously with no problems leading to me believe that it also happens randomly if you leave your player on all the time like I do.

It's interesting that you noted that the disc loads, but doesn't spin. I thought maybe it was something in memory, but now it sounds like a mechanical problem. If we are talking about the same problem that is.

Originally posted by rbienstock

Um. Interesting. I'll have to try that if it happens again. I've followed this thread sporadically, and I must have missed the discussion on that issue.

Maybe I need to better understand how this unreadable disk bug works. I've had a bunch of disks that the unit was unable to read, that following cleaning became readable. I've also had a few that never became readable no matter what I did. Neither of these were the problem I was discussing. What happened to me twice was that my units stopped reading any and all disks. I'm pretty sure that I did, at that point, turn off the power for an extended period, but I don't really remember. Were my symptoms consistent with the bug you were discussing?

Hm, let me amend my previous question to Jeff from Kenwood: Jeff, how about this "unreadable disc" problem? Any chance of a fix for that one, perhaps along with the 3-second layer change fix?

Nick, thanks for the DVD Profiler suggestion. I actually thought of that as well after posting. I will download and give it a try.

It might be depending on how long you waited after you turned it off.

Just about everytime I have had the unreadable disc problem, wether due to a dirty disc or it randomly happening to a disc that was brand new that had just played fine hours earlier, it would not play any disc after that. even leaving it alone overnight without powering off did not fix it. Maybe once I was able to clean a disc, put it back and it played fine. Usually not only does it refuse to play, no other disc can be read. Happend to me the other night with Amelie while I had guest over. Pretty embarassing. I didn't even bother trying to play it again. Just took the disc out, turned off the unit and put it in my other player.

I have to power it off for an extended period of time. This I have confirmed. I have had this happen to me enough times that I began paying attention to see what made the problem go away. Powering it off is the only thing that works consistently so far. This I noticed because I would give up and just turn the thing off in disgust. The next day my wife would use it with no problems.

I am always buying previewed discs which are pretty beat up and haven't had one that doesn't play after cleaning it. You should try those few discs that you said you cannot play. Unless they are badly scratched they should play. It could have been the bug that affected you at the time.

Anyone have this problem: Entre Media Manager does not see the MP3's that are on the Entre HD. It all started with me sending about 500 MP3's from my computer to the Entre over night last week. From then on, the Media Manager does not recognize any MP3's on the Entre. It still recognizes the Entre with the proper serial number and still allows me to send an MP3 to the Entre. As soon as it is completely sent, it disapears from the Media Manager window for Music (Music being the files on the Entre.) The MP3's then play fine on the unit. I have done all the normal things such as customer service, reseting, power cycling, deleting & re-installing Media Manager, re-downloading Media Manager, and restoration of default settings.

Any ideas? Thanks.

DerekFSU,

I know that some firewall software, such as Norton, will interfere with the Media Manager software in that library information will not upload from the Entré. Try turning off your firewall software and do another sync.

Stop the presses, I am an idiot. Thanks Fadlevic. I completely forgot that I was running Zonealarm!!!!

You will also have a problem transferring any mp3 album/song that have a tag with non-english characters such as "åöä". These songs will not even be attempted to be transferred to the Entre, atleast when I tried. Have anyone else been successful in doing this ??

It drives me crazy that I can not add this title to the Entre (the new Walt Disney "Beauty and the Beast" Platinum Edition). This is a big block buster that I am sure is somewhere in the OG database. My Entre have not been able to do an auto lookup on this one and I have not been able to guess the correct search string to find this title. If anyone have been able to add this one I would very much appreciate if you could share the exact search string for this title!!!

On another note, the Liv Ullman movie "Sofia" (far from a mainstream movie here in the US) could not even be found in DVD Profilor, but believe it or not, it was correctly identified in OG using Entre and auto lookup... I couldn't believe it!

Well thank goodness, I have no more problems with the entre finding my DVD's on OG. :) Of course that's only because the first 5900m is fully loaded and the second is halfway there.:p

Hey Jeff, if your still reading the forum.

Do you think Kenwood would send me a second entre, for free, as a workaround to the multi-changer problem. That way both DVD players can be used with the entres and I would be satisfied.

Well, just for a grins, I went ahead and loaded all 162 of my DVD's into the 5900 and let the Entre look them up in a batch. I didn't load my house-mate's 100+ as well.

Of the 162 I loaded, the Entre failed to recognize 40. Approximately 25%. Of these, many were discs in sets. For instance, it successfully recognized about 3/4 of my Monty Python's Flying Circus set (14 discs in all, of which about 9 were found).

This is simply unacceptable. I also haven't seen answers from the Kenwood representative to any of the simple questions I've posted. I will be returning the Entre and going with a PC-based solution. If I can get DVD Lobby Pro 2.0 soon enough, I may try to use it with my Slink-e and my Sony changer. If it works well, the Kenwood changer will go back as well.

Originally posted by JustMike
Of the 162 I loaded, the Entre failed to recognize 40. Approximately 25%. Of these, many were discs in sets. For instance, it successfully recognized about 3/4 of my Monty Python's Flying Circus set (14 discs in all, of which about 9 were found).

Mike, on this issue I have to believe you have an unusual problem. I'm not sure that I have one DVD, in a full changer (except for DVD-Audio discs) which Entre hasn't recognized. You have had some difficulties that others haven't had for awhile. I'm sure the problems are real, but I don't think this is the product. It might just be yours.

This is simply unacceptable. I also haven't seen answers from the Kenwood representative to any of the simple questions I've posted. I will be returning the Entre and going with a PC-based solution. If I can get DVD Lobby Pro 2.0 soon enough, I may try to use it with my Slink-e and my Sony changer. If it works well, the Kenwood changer will go back as well.

Kenwood is long gone. Jeff's appearance on this thread, was, unfortunately, some wishful thinking on Kenwood's part that people would forget about the hard questions, and just rave about their Entre and Axcess units. If you read back, it was actually humorous sometimes as we got the plea to keep talking about the "fun" things, but forget about the big stuff. One thing you may want to do is ask David Bott by way of PM about your Entre problems. David has a lot of insight into the issues, and might be able to help. And, we know he's still here.

I'm wondering if there will soon be a fire sale on Entres. It's not a joke that I could wind up with three of them, if there's a way to do that, and if they're being sold as dime on a dollar units because they'll be discontinued. Biggest problem there would be remote control confusion, something that would have been eliminated by virtue of the daisy chaining function.

Good luck, but Entre is a unique enough product that I'll wait just to see how it plays out. Kenwood is a perfectly reprehensible company, mind you, and they've lied to and played games with each of us. Nonetheless, the Entre remains cool, the company's utter lack of integrity notwithstanding.

Nick :cool:

Does anyone know if you can use the COMPONENT IN on the 5900M to work as a pass-through? I have tried it and can't seem to get it to work that way... maybe I am missing it but the manual doesn't seem to show any explanation for that input, not even in reference to a daisy-chain.

Thanks,
Larry

Originally posted by Montagar
Does anyone know if you can use the COMPONENT IN on the 5900M to work as a pass-through? I have tried it and can't seem to get it to work that way... maybe I am missing it but the manual doesn't seem to show any explanation for that input, not even in reference to a daisy-chain.

Thanks,
Larry

Page 18 of the manual.

1-7-2 Connection of Video Output Terminals

Connect the video output using either the S-VIDEO or COMPONENT VIDEO connection.

For the connection, connect the "SUB2" unit output to the "SUB1" unit input, then connect the "SUB1" unit output to the "MAIN" unit input as shown in the figure below.

The component output of the next-one-down-in-the-daisy-chain is what goes into the component input of the next-one-up. From the bottom of the chain up, the players have to be switched SUB2, SUB1, MAIN.

Keep in mind that there's a mini pin connector as well, from link to link. While the Main unit clearly functions as a pass through for the SUB1 and SUB2 units, it may not work with another component, e.g., a HDTV receiver with component video outputs. That's the subject of another thread, and the poster said he would try it.

Nick :cool:

Hey Nick,

I wonder, how would my 75% success rate be "my" problem rather than the product's? Just because I have a few unusual discs, or are you suggesting that something may be misconfigured? I've tried everything I could think of (and I read the bulk of this enormous thread! :)).

Some items, I'm not surprised that it didn't find. A couple of concert DVD's and so forth.

But, other stuff is vexing. Like the Python discs; the Fawlty Towers disc that insists that it's another movie entirely, even when searched by name; half the Sopranos 1st season. And so on. As I unload the changer, I'll try to make notes of the ones that it failed to find and I'll post the list here for comparison.

I would love to keep the changer for its large capacity, but the frequent reports here of the "unplayable disc" problem worry me deeply. I don't want a spare DVD player in my rack just because my changer may decide to lose its mind sometimes. I have people over for movies frequently. That would be very embarrassing.

As irritating as the Sony is to use, it doesn't appear to be significantly more irritating than the Kenwood, and it works flawlessly when it comes to actually playing discs.

Sigh. I should have known it was too good to be true.

Just Mike

The only problem with sony is that is only holds 200 DVD's and can not be chained. The Pioneer only holds 300, can be chained, but I found that they kept jamming (had 5 of 6 jam after getting them fully loaded and cataloged). Also the pioneer only recognized about 25%, because not every disk has the title in a format for the palyer to recognize. When I first purchased my 2 DV-5900m's they too only recognized about 75%. The rest I had to manually load the info for OG to search. Only about 5% are not found in OG. Input of the info is fairly easy with the included wireless keyboard. Bottom line, with all the little problems (and of course the major problem of no multi-changer support) the Kenwood is still the best changer on the market. By the way, if you have 2 DV-5900m's, than when one does not recognize the disk, I just switch it into the other changer. Not pretty, but when company is there it works.

Also, someone on e-bay is trying to sell their two week old entre, starting bid is $599. Interesting, could it be one of us trying to unload and is this just the start. Hopefully, Kenwood will just give me another entre, cheaper than fixing the multi-player problem. As for remoter control problems, I would just put one entre on the left side of the cabinet and one on the right side.

On the Entre Music display screen, it lists all my MP3's by artist name and album. I have a ton of single MP3s without the album name in the tag. Is it possible to change the display to show the artist name and the track name? I know these questions of mine are not the technical sort usually seen here and will gladly post elsewhere if there is a more appropriate thread. Thanks again.

P.S. Is it possible to run CDDB lookup to find the info once the files are already on the entre?

I don't know about the entre, but if you can copy them back to your pc you can use a program like musicmatch to look up the tags again, or rename them. I think you can then copy them back to the entre.

Originally posted by DerekFSU
On the Entre Music display screen, it lists all my MP3's by artist name and album. I have a ton of single MP3s without the album name in the tag. Is it possible to change the display to show the artist name and the track name? I know these questions of mine are not the technical sort usually seen here and will gladly post elsewhere if there is a more appropriate thread. Thanks again.

Although they are already on the Entre, the original copy is on my computer. I guess I could erase them all from the library, look them up, and put them all in again. Thanks.

I have downloaded MusicMatch and have used it to match up several MP3's with the album and the cover art. When I then transfer them to the entre, I notice that the cover art does not follow it. Any ideas?

The Entre' only reads the ID3 tag information for a MP3. If you have cover art, add it to the MP3 after you have imported the MP3 into Media Manager. Then when you sync Media Manager to your Entre', it will copy the MP3 and cover art to your Entre'. If you don't have cover art for a certain MP3, put the correct album, artist, year, etc. info in the ID3 tag before importing the MP3 to Media Manager. After you do the sync with your Entre' and the MP3 is copied over, you can have the Entre' look for the cover art just as you would with a CD.

Bob

Thanks Bob for the help. Is it possible to have the Entre display the artist and track instead of the artist and album name?

Only way I have found is to press select on the highlighted item. I know this is not what you (nor I) want for single MP3s, but I guess it's our only choice. A total list of song titles would be nice, especially for MP3s.

Bob

I've now spent hours with MusicMatch matching up the MP3's to the correct album and whatnot. However, Media Manager only recognizes a few of the albums. Most still say Unknown. It seems maybe 15 out of 1000 that I have now corrected. If I go into a specific file in MusicMatch, it shows all the proper info in the tag but Media Manager does not see it.

Originally posted by zinja
Just Mike

The only problem with sony is that is only holds 200 DVD's and can not be chained. The Pioneer only holds 300, can be chained, but I found that they kept jamming (had 5 of 6 jam after getting them fully loaded and cataloged). Also the pioneer only recognized about 25%, because not every disk has the title in a format for the palyer to recognize. When I first purchased my 2 DV-5900m's they too only recognized about 75%. The rest I had to manually load the info for OG to search. Only about 5% are not found in OG. Input of the info is fairly easy with the included wireless keyboard. Bottom line, with all the little problems (and of course the major problem of no multi-changer support) the Kenwood is still the best changer on the market. By the way, if you have 2 DV-5900m's, than when one does not recognize the disk, I just switch it into the other changer. Not pretty, but when company is there it works.



The newer Sonys will hold 300 discs, but, as Zinja points out, no daisy chaining. The Pioneers sort of daisy chain--they do so fully with digital audio, but only one can output a component video signal. The other requires you to use s-video or composite.

By the way . . . can anyone think of a reason why a second Entre would not work? You should be able to defeat the remote control confusion problem with an IR router, and, so long as you're willing to hook up the players in a non-daisy chain configuration, and if you've got adequate inputs on your display or your A/V processor . . . should work.

The more pertinent question is whether OpenGlobe will be around, even when (sorry, Kenwood . . I mean even if) Entre gets discontinued.
I am hearing of dealers discontinuing the line, but not Kenwood. Not yet, anyway (knowing Kenwood, it got discontinued months ago, and they just don't think it's important for us to know that).

Nick :cool:

You might want to PM hmatos. He was the media manager wizard and if i remember correctly was able to circumvent some of it's limitations.

Alas, he returned all his kenwood stuff but he probably will help you with your questions.

Originally posted by DerekFSU
I've now spent hours with MusicMatch matching up the MP3's to the correct album and whatnot. However, Media Manager only recognizes a few of the albums. Most still say Unknown. It seems maybe 15 out of 1000 that I have now corrected. If I go into a specific file in MusicMatch, it shows all the proper info in the tag but Media Manager does not see it.

Originally posted by slocko
You might want to PM hmatos. He was the media manager wizard and if i remember correctly was able to circumvent some of it's limitations.

Alas, he returned all his kenwood stuff but he probably will help you with your questions.

I vaguely remember him saying that the entre didn't support a type of id tag. If that is the case, you might have to save them with the older type of tag. Sorry I don't remember more, but definately speak with hmatos. If you can't reach him, then search this thread for his posts.

Hi everyone,
Since this thread has been started, has Kenwood made any firmware updates available to the 5900 DVD changers or the PowerTouch III remote?

Thanks.

Howdy,

Is intermittent failure of the disc eject mechanism in the 5050/5090 changers common? I was just looking through the changer to figure out which discs the Entre hadn't been able to identify, and a few will eject with a press of the button, but most don't. I see the mechanism move (the door retracts farther to the side), but the disc stays put.

I think the disk eject problem is common, however my 5090 works fine on every disk, so it seems that there is something out of alignment for you.

None of my discs eject. They never have from day one. Others reports that it worked and then it stopped working. Mine behaves just like yours.

Originally posted by JustMike
Howdy,

Is intermittent failure of the disc eject mechanism in the 5050/5090 changers common? I was just looking through the changer to figure out which discs the Entre hadn't been able to identify, and a few will eject with a press of the button, but most don't. I see the mechanism move (the door retracts farther to the side), but the disc stays put.

My eject buttons seemed to work, than seemed not to work, but now seem to work again. It seems that on occassion that if the disk does not eject after pushing the eject button once, after the disk rotates to the eject position and I hit the eject button a second time, the disk ejects. Maybe someone else can try it and see if hitting th eject button a second time works.

Originally posted by slocko
None of my discs eject. They never have from day one. Others reports that it worked and then it stopped working. Mine behaves just like yours.

I only read recently that some people's eject mechanism had formerly worked, and then stopped working. I took cheer in the fact that mine worked.

Then it stopped working.

Nick :cool:

I spoke with soverign tech support today on other topics, including flakey pass through, trying to save revceiver connections passing through a sub1 (2nd player) through main and the entre (again only in pass through mode) where video works fine but audio does not.

Anyway, I asked about multi changer support, and the rep said that they were told that it would be ready earlier this year (the CEDIA rumour?) but the date came and passed. So they know they are working on it, but no delivery date. He said they were told that a firmware update to the players would be required. He did not know whether it would be a send back the player or field installable.

This maybe links to deadsock's issues with the multichanger protocol he has seen in developing juken.

FWIW

Originally posted by fredisdead69


Anyway, I asked about multi changer support, and the rep said that they were told that it would be ready earlier this year (the CEDIA rumour?) but the date came and passed. So they know they are working on it, but no delivery date. He said they were told that a firmware update to the players would be required. He did not know whether it would be a send back the player or field installable.


FWIW

Hmmm . . . what if the tech was accurately relaying the information he had heard, but the sudden silence on the subject meant . . . a snag.

Could it be . . . money? What if someone said . . . poor sales, we don't want to throw good money after bad--say nothing more to the techs about it.

That would mean . . .

TO BE CONTINUED

Nick :cool:

Anyone have any problems with Belkin USB 5050? Mine just stopped working when I went to sync Media Manager library. Thought converter went bad so I bought 2 more, neither worked. "Traffic" light on connector stopped lighting up, could not get disc or track info (would just time out), and computer no longer sees the Entre. Kenwood is mailing me the Netmate adapter.

Notice how Kenwood no longer contributes to this thread. Also some prior proponents are keeping a very low profile.

Yes, in fact, I did notice that. I noticed just before I took the Entre back today. I think the 5050 is going back too, given the multiple problems people have reported with the changers here. My Sony 860 has numerous frustrations, but it has never refused to play a disc for a full day, never failed to eject a disc, etc. It holds 300 discs and works reliably, and two of them fit in the space of one 5050 and one Entre (and cost less than the 5050 alone). The only problem with them is that they can't be SDI modded. ;)

Problems there are, just read my posts. But I have yet to find an inclusive system that is better, or even comes close. Does anyone else produce a progressive scan megachanger that is brought together with music to allow simple navigation via cover art. It's the age old downside to being on the cutting edge- You may have the newest toys but you also have the newest bugs.

In defense of Kenwood support- I feel like I am dealing with some type of support issue all the time with one product or another (satellite, phone, cable, computer, digital camera, etc). You usually wait on hold for 40 minutes and then get someone who barely speaks English and knows even less about the product. When you finally find someone who you can understand and who knows about the product, it feels like you have finally succeeded and you've yet to even fix the problem. It is so bad these days that if the McDonalds drive-thru ACTUALLY gets your order right, it's cause for celebration.

Kenwood seems to have a dedicated technical support group where I have waited on hold for no longer than 10 minutes, usually only 3 or 4, and everyone there with whom I have dealt seems to know the product.

I don't see Sony or anyone else on here blazing a new path or one upping Kenwood. I hate the bugs as much as the next guy but it's still head and shoulders above the competition.

Well, I agree that it's the most-ambitious product out there. Unfortunately, they didn't execute it well enough. I don't need music, and I can do DVD cover art (painfully, yes) via a PC. So, what it comes down to for me is: is the changer reliable enough to use? The answer based on postings here seems to be "no". I absolutely cannot tolerate a failure to read a DVD, much less the subsequent failure to read any DVD unless you power the unit off for a day. In a 400-disc changer, the failure of the eject mechanism is also a serious problem because it's very difficult to get the disc out.

Sadly, this system isn't for me. For those folks for whom it works, more power to you!

Does anyone have a good contact at Customer Service for Kenwood or the number for CS at least? My unit has been at service for the last couple of weeks and I got a call from the service center today with an update on progress.

Kenwood is telling them that the expected ETA for the parts is 4 to 6 WEEKS! If it takes 6 weeks, that brings the total time to 2 MONTHS which I don't feel is acceptable. In that case, the unit will have been in service 1/6th of the time I have owned it. Not good.

My main reason for wanting to get the repairs expedited is the fact that I've been working with Mario on direct control of the 5900 from DVD Lobby and cannot continue until I've got it back.

Any suggestions or contact info that might help will be greatly appreciated. PM me with the info if you don't want to post the details to the public.

Thanks.

Just remember that it's only a theory of mine. I think if you power down the player after watching a movie you might never run into this problem.

I never power it down because it takes so long to power it back up again, but I might begin doing it because when it can't play a disc it's a pain in the butt. For some reason it doesn't like Monsters Inc. Brand new disc, cleaned, and every time I play this disc, it's a gamble on whether it will freeze up at some point.

The only thing making me hang on to this player is the 400 capacity and the ability to output progressive. I don't use it for music.

Originally posted by JustMike
Well, I agree that it's the most-ambitious product out there. Unfortunately, they didn't execute it well enough. I don't need music, and I can do DVD cover art (painfully, yes) via a PC. So, what it comes down to for me is: is the changer reliable enough to use? The answer based on postings here seems to be "no". I absolutely cannot tolerate a failure to read a DVD, much less the subsequent failure to read any DVD unless you power the unit off for a day. In a 400-disc changer, the failure of the eject mechanism is also a serious problem because it's very difficult to get the disc out.

Sadly, this system isn't for me. For those folks for whom it works, more power to you!

I've had my DV-5900M for over a year, and I've never had it freeze, not read a DVD, or anything similar. I do turn it OFF when I'm not using it, however. I wonder if JustMike is overreacting to a few people with no-read-DVD problems. Y'know, the vocal minority.

My only real problem with the DV-5900M is its ability to play SVCDs, but when I looked through the manual, I see that it never claims to support SVCDs. Interesting... I wonder where I got the idea that it supported SVCDs?

Actually, Jon, I might be over-reacting. I do like the 400-disc capacity and the serial port control. On the other hand, I've seen the following problems with the player in the 2 weeks I've had it:

1) Eject mechanism becomes intermittent
2) Audible vibration when playing discs

And the following frustrations:
1) Unit isn't clever enough to close the door when you turn it off.
2) Can't "soft" power off from the front panel

And, having seen the inner workings of one of these units, I don't have confidence in its long-term reliability.

So, basically, I'm just not convinced that the changer's good features outweigh the problems for somebody like me who already has a changer. If it was a first-changer purchase or something, I would probably keep it. But, given that I have another one that works, and given that I don't need progressive out (external scaler)...

Mike,

Ah... you're right... my eject does not work for me either (it used to). So, that is an issue that I've had with my unit. However, since I rarely eject any discs, it's not a big issue for me.

I've read on this thread that the audible vibrations is something that has a standard Kenwood repair solution attached to it.

But, I can see that you're situation is different than mine and many others contributing to this thread: Faroudja and DVD-A are not important to you (hence you buying the 5050 vs. the 5900), and since the Entre is only half-baked, the pluses of a single 5050 (100 extra discs and future daisychaining) aren't all that compelling to you.

I've said this before, and I'll say it again: If Kenwood would have finished off the usability testing process of the changer products, they'd have a blockbuster in the changer market. However, due to the complaints that Mike talks about (door closing, no soft power off, etc..) Kenwood's changers will never get the positive word-of-mouth to take off in the enthusiast market.

The devil's in the details, Kenwood. A one-week usability study would have uncovered all of these nits. Frustrating...

HELP. No sound from the Entre. I have the optical out connected to the CDR optical in of the Kenwood VR-5090. When playing files from the Entre hard disk, I get no sound via the optical out. If i go out the analog right & left channels I get sound. Any suggestions? Thanks...

Mike:

I don't know how many discs you have, but I assume it's under 300. If you foresee that you will want to continue down the changer route at disc 300, you will encounter a bigger practical problem with any of the other changers, i.e., no daisy chaining capability.

Only the Kenwood has true daisy chaining capability. The Pioneer causes you to restrict your component video outputs to only one changer, and the Sony will only permit daisy chaining of a CD changer.

So if you still want a changer at disc 300 (because that's the limit for either the Sony or the Pioneer), you have to:

1. Use a separate set of inputs altogether for component video and digital audio in your display and/or your A/V processor/receiver.

2. Buy the "other brand" for your second changer, in order to avoid remote control confusion (same control turns on and off both units, if you buy two of the same). Sony has a progressive player, Pioneer does not.

3. If using the same brand, you still need the extra inputs, but can possibly get away with it with an IR router, but that (I have tried one) is a bit of a pain and invites more hard wiring. Then you need an additional remote for the IR router, or at least its codes, for something like a Pronto.

There are ergonomic problems with the changers, but the quality is there. Of all, the Pioneer is easiest to use, although I have owned three of the Sony changers, and the 870 was a very well built machine (copper chassis, extra video adjustments) . . . I think the 875 is more like the 860, only progressive scan. Also, I believe that the 875 is RF on its remote, which is generally preferable, but restricts your usage with some universal remotes.

I confess . . . . I love the products themselves. I do despise the company, because of its deceptive, weasel-like approach to its customers, and I still could see my name printed one day on a white sheet of paper that has my name on the left, Kenwood's on the right, and "vs." in the middle. Actually, it kills me to have to extol its virtues.

But, the devil you know . . .

Nick :cool:

Gold Stars to Kenwood!

I was finally able to talk with a real live person today at Kenwood concerning the 4 to 6 week ETA on parts and without any issues or the typical 'we're doing you a favor and we want to make sure you know it' hoo ha that is so commonplace anymore they immediately worked to contact the service center to get my unit on the way back to Kenwood and were sending back a new replacement unit as soon as they had it. I'm supposed to have the brand new one in hand sometime next week.

I was completely blown away with how professionally the problem was resolved and that no battle needed to be fought even though I was fully expecting and ready to duke it out based on my previous encounters.

There wasn't even any question about how it would be resolved and it left me with that warm fuzzy feeling you get when you see an exceptional example of a company standing behind a product. You can usually tell when support is trying to pull some crap over on you and fumbles around with it. There were zero signs of that here and it went a long way towards restoring my faith in Kenwood in general.

This was truly the first time I have seen any indication from them that they give a damn about anything that doesn't have dollar signs near by but it was an amazing encounter overall. It was one of those deals where you truly felt like they would get in the car and drive it over to your house today if they were allowed to sneak out a little early.


I have my fingers crossed that this is an indication that things are headed towards improvement and we'll see great things in the near future. That's good for all of us if it is indeed the case. If not, I got exceptionally lucky or won the daily lottery in the support group which sucks for all of you but at least my short term problems seem to be on the way out. <g>

I'd prefer to share the wealth with everyone else and really do hope that my experience today really was a sincere effort on their part to get things going in the right direction again with their customer base. Either way it left a strong impression with me at least.

MediaStorm,

Congrats, I hope Kenwood comes through and gets you the changer.

Just a thought though, maybe they were willing to send you one because they have so many sitting in the ware house ;)


-apnar

Originally posted by amargiot
HELP. No sound from the Entre. I have the optical out connected to the CDR optical in of the Kenwood VR-5090. When playing files from the Entre hard disk, I get no sound via the optical out. If i go out the analog right & left channels I get sound. Any suggestions? Thanks...

Amargiot,
The Entre outputs MP3 audio and Internet Radio through the analog outputs only. Play a CD in the Entre and you will get sound from the Digital output.

Bob

Originally posted by apnar
MediaStorm,

Congrats, I hope Kenwood comes through and gets you the changer.

Just a thought though, maybe they were willing to send you one because they have so many sitting in the ware house ;)


-apnar

Could be but I'm still happy either way. I'd like to think that not only is the warehouse empty but they are building new ones as fast as they can because they keep selling out. That would mean that they were (hopefully) making some money on them so they see a long term value in continuing to produce these types of products and coming up with new ones.

I'd say at the very least, they have gone through some tremendous learning processes since the introduction of the 5900 and Entre. These are new types of products for them compared to the more traditional CE stuff and it's hard to shake off the obvious difference. I just can't wait to start downloading updates and bugfixes for my refrigerator. ;-)

Wait till your fridge locks up while your out of town a couple of days with no one around to reboot it. <g> I doubt that will fly at all. The upside is that a device like that would have to pass very rigorous testing and a bug has much more severe consequences than the inability to watch a DVD. The downside is that testing takes a lot of time to do and it delays the product getting to market quickly.

Kenwood should have taken a bit longer to work through the issues or test the units more thoroughly before coming to market but we were all screaming that we wanted the product and could live with a few issues here and there as long as we got bug fixes along the way. There have been numerous improvements to the Entre along the way and it keeps getting closer and closer to being solid.

The 5900 hasn't had any fixes released to date or if those fixes were made they likely are showing up on later production runs of the hardware. Hopefully 5900 owners will have an update before long which addresses these issues and then we'll all have to look for something else to try and break.

I really think that a very large part of the problem is that to a degree Kenwood gave us exactly what we asked for. My issue with the whole mess though is how the marketing was focused and the obvious lack of response from Kenwood to update the website with accurate details. My other significant issue with them is how they have handled communications in regards to the issues and their resolution. They seemed to have very selective levels of participation and had a knack for letting up believe whatever we wanted if that 'rumor' took some pressure off of them for an immediate solution. I do also understand that they have to be very careful with all communications in general but they could make improvements that helps all of us. Hopefully my experience yesterday was a positive sign that the problems they have had to date are indeed being addressed internally and that the have a solid plan in action to resolve those problems.

Without that first step in action it will be next to impossible for us to every get a solution. I guess it is the 12 Step system for CE companies.

Here are a few things I think Kenwood should focus on moving forward:

1) Resolve the multi-changer problems on the 5900 and provide an easy method for end users to implement the fix themselves if at all possible. (IE- If the fix can be done with firmware only vs. hardware mods. required).

2) Resolve any issues with multi-changer control between the Entre and 5900 after fix 1 done. Skip fix 1 if the problem is 100% with the Entre.

3) Work on fixes to address layer changes and other mysterious events (Eject stops working, can't read this disc type and so on). Also publish this fix for self install if firmware only.

4) Create and staff a developer relations conduit. The goal here is to have a resource to work with interested developers and provide the technical information to everyone equally. Restricting the information solely to their developer 'Partners' isn't working to their best interest (ie-it's not helping sales as much as it could).. Why? Installers are very critical of the hardware they install and the first sign of trouble steers them towards a different product quickly. I doubt there are many installers putting the 5900/Entre stuff in new installs. One or two installs later and they'll stop because service calls kill their bottom line. But development partners aren't installers?? True, but only installers can sell and implement solutions like Crestron and AMX (The true 'Partners' to Kenwood) so indirectly the installers are the only ones who ultimately have access to this information unless you want to spend and insane amount of money to become a dealer for either company because you still won't have access to the information as just an end user of either solution. In short, if you aren't a professional installer on the high-end side of things, you DO NOT have any access to the information currently. If Kenwood wants to see things really take off make the information available to EVERYONE who wants it and provide as much support as possible to those developers at NO CHARGE. They should also simplify all the protocols as much as possible and avoid trying to keep everything proprietary based where possible. This would allow those who want to use 100% of the feature in the units without going through circles to obtain 65% of the information over many months. The length of time it took to get anything tangible on the 5900 protocol alone is a perfect example. There are a ton of untapped opportunities to really do some impressive development stuff once the mysteries are uncloaked. I'd love to see full documentation on the RS232 commands for the VR5900 and VR5700 receivers to start with as I figure I have about 2/3rds of them figured out but the remaining 1/3rd may remain a mystery until the end of time.

Even if Kenwood cannot afford to put a developer program in place now then at least work with a few folks in the development community who are willing to volunteer to help out for now. Maybe that's the best plan to start with and would allow Kenwood to get a better idea of what they really need to create a great program and get started with a minimal investment of time and resources. I'd volunteer in a split second not only to help them get the info together but to host the website and manage the content until they have a longer term plan in motion. All I need is someone to work with at Kenwood that is willing and able to get the information to me and we can get going in a flash. Problem is, there are some huge political implications between Kenwood and the 'Partners' like Crestron and AMX and those two will not be happy at all to see this ever happen because it erodes the artificial value their own products have. Right now they can charge an arm and two legs for everything because they are the only ones with the information and therefore the only ones with a product to sell. When Microsoft does the same thing every state in the Union jumps together to sue them and throw anti-trust info at one another. The consumer electronics industry has done the same thing for years and it hasn't seemed to bother anyone for some strange reason.

I'm not implying that we should start thinking crazy here, I simply wanted to highlight some additional reasons why sharing the information would be beneficial to Kenwood as well as all of us.

So, there it is. I am willing to challenge Kenwood with the task of opening up developer communications.

I am willing to provide the hosting resources, time and necessary elements to make sure the information is accessible to everyone who wants it period. All they have to do is provide a contact person for me to get in touch with to get the ball rolling (oh and of course completely change their current position of restricting the info only to the 'P3' partners).

My personal opinion is that they are far too scared of upseting AMX and Crestron to ever have the courage to step up to this challenge.

Let's see what happens.

The entre downloaded an upgrade last night. But I don't see anything new, anyone notice anything?

Carbo, what's the new software version? It has happen to me several times that the Entre is indicating a new software version is being installed but when I check the s/w version it's still on x.10... I reported this in a posting a few months back.
/Lars

What should I tell my wife about the lack of control on the 2nd unit?

Give her kenwood's phone number so she can give them a piece of her mind.

One strategy is to move any discs that you will not watch a second time to the second player. This should buy you some time.

Think of the entre as a luxury item that you only lavish on your best discs :)

Again, can anyone possibly believe that Kenwood has been "working on" the fix to the multichanger support for a year now? That's how long it's been. This very thread was started last December, and the Entre had already been out awhile.

Face facts, fine folks. Kenwood will not fix the Entre, and it will continue to leave you all dangling. But just look at its website on the issue of multichanger support--coming soon it says. When I purchased Entre, it said that it was already there. Then look at the disclaimer on the website, which basically says you have no right to rely on anything we say on this website, and Kenwood is allowed to tell the biggest whoppers of all time, while you do nothing about it.

Now, let's see. I've just accused Kenwood of deceptive practices when it comes to Entre. Do you think that its silence might mean that . . . that . . . that . . . it's got nothing to say in defense? There used to be someone from Kenwood on this board. Where'd that guy go?

Nick :cool:

There also used to be a moderator that was a fan of the Entre and would give us information. Where'd that guy go?

So how do we get the information from Kenwood? (I know, DUMB question). I am now at 300 discs in the DVD Changer and am starting to feel the squeeze coming. The entre, 403 disc dvd changer, and reciever were only purchased by me for the functionality of having multiple changer support. I want (like everyone else) what was a function of the system when it was purchased. Does the FTC have anything to say about false advertising or bait and switch?


Regards,

Jennifer Prince

oops ...double entry

Regards,

Jennifer Prince

Best workaround for entre lack of multi-changer support: Just get a second entre. Call Kenwood, maybe they will give you a second entre for free (I have not tried this one yet). Then make sure the two entres are on either side of your tv, to avoid conflicting IR problems. Otherwise, there is no use complaining on this forum about lack of multi-changer support. After all, we have been complaining about this problem for over 1 year. If you have not got it yet, Kenwood is NOT going to respond to our complaints here. Nor are we going to hear from Jeff or Dave on this matter. At this point in time, if you are unhappy with the lack of Kenwood support, I suggest you contact your local attorney and seek redress through that avenue, because it obviously will not come through this forum. If you are determined to keep your Kenwoods (because they are still the best changers and they will daisey chain, with a pitiful GUI) than wait for some of our fellow owners to develop a solution.

I actually might get a second Entre. In fact, when someone posted recently about one on eBay, I took a look at it. Damn thing sold for over $1,000, and you can get them new, in stock, for just over $1100.

Keep in mind that going that route will require a new set of inputs to your A/V processor, as well as your display. In other words, extra digital audio inputs, extra component video inputs, extra everything. And I think you will need an IR router, because if the second unit is even "remotely" close to the first, it will get activated. My screen is 9 feet wide, and it would respond to commands even if placed on either side.

In fact, open message to Kenwood: Give me a second Entre unit like Zinja says and I'll forget about everything. I'll just talk about the fun stuff. I'll have my family pose smiling in front of the units, exclaiming "Dad doesn't beat us with the strap anymore, ever since he got the second Entre."

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by aauno
What should I tell my wife about the lack of control on the 2nd unit?

Move all the porn to the second unit and tell her the lack of control is due to the advanced parental control features that are only enabled when you have two changers. <g>

Tell her it works just fine but requires a special method of selecting the discs as an added method of keeping the kids out. ;-)

My 5900 has been at the service center since 10- 11. They have been waiting on parts since 10- 14. Called Kenwood yesterday and they are going to replace it with a new unit.

Originally posted by vaha
My 5900 has been at the service center since 10- 11. They have been waiting on parts since 10- 14. Called Kenwood yesterday and they are going to replace it with a new unit.

There is certainly a trend starting to appear here. What did you think of the contact with customer service overall? I'm interested to see your experience was similar to mine and if so, this is a positive trend indeed.

hopefully it's not a trend of 5900s having to be replaced!!!!!

I know at least 1 other person has had theirs replaced and mine would probably qualify too. So that would be 4. Of course this is such a statiscally insignificant sample that it is meaningless :)

The theory about the full warehouse seems more plausible.

It's listed as in stock, and it can ship in 4 to 7 days for $938 at www.hookedontronics.com. You can get the Entre there for $1148. I already picked up a DV-5050M (which makes it 3 changers for me) from them for just over $600. Not exactly a fire sale, but definitely a sign: Get whatever you can for them. They don't sell otherwise.

MediaStorm, we're counting on you and Mario to come through with the control scheme. Otherwise, I'm going to wind up with three Entres, one for each changer. By the time you guys work it out, I might already be there.

Nick :cool:

3 entres. That would make for an interesting Pronto ccf file.

Originally posted by Nicholas
The theory about the full warehouse seems more plausible.

It's listed as in stock, and it can ship in 4 to 7 days for $938 at www.hookedontronics.com. You can get the Entre there for $1148. I already picked up a DV-5050M (which makes it 3 changers for me) from them for just over $600. Not exactly a fire sale, but definitely a sign: Get whatever you can for them. They don't sell otherwise.

MediaStorm, we're counting on you and Mario to come through with the control scheme. Otherwise, I'm going to wind up with three Entres, one for each changer. By the time you guys work it out, I might already be there.

Nick :cool:

3 entres. That would make for an interesting Pronto ccf file.

Originally posted by Nicholas
The theory about the full warehouse seems more plausible.

It's listed as in stock, and it can ship in 4 to 7 days for $938 at www.hookedontronics.com. You can get the Entre there for $1148. I already picked up a DV-5050M (which makes it 3 changers for me) from them for just over $600. Not exactly a fire sale, but definitely a sign: Get whatever you can for them. They don't sell otherwise.

MediaStorm, we're counting on you and Mario to come through with the control scheme. Otherwise, I'm going to wind up with three Entres, one for each changer. By the time you guys work it out, I might already be there.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by Nicholas
MediaStorm, we're counting on you and Mario to come through with the control scheme. Otherwise, I'm going to wind up with three Entres, one for each changer. By the time you guys work it out, I might already be there.

If that is the case, you can send me on of the Entres when we get the other stuff working since you won't need it anymore. ;-)

That will give me something else to beat into serial submission. Actually though, I would like to stick an Entre between my receiver and the 5900 for a few days to snoop the serial data between the receiver and the Entre. It would also be interesting to see if there is any out of the ordinary (IE-Undocumented.. Wait ALL of the stuff is UNDOCUMENTED) jabber back and forth. I wouldn't be surprised at all to see a bunch of chatter between the Entre and receiver and even a touch of whispering between the 5900 and the Entre.

I would be interested to see how extensively the data from the Entre is utilized. Of course I'd also have to get a hold of the PC connect software and bash on the Entre from the PC to see if any other secrets are waiting to be found.

I may decide to bite the bullet and get an Entre to go with my 5900M nothwithstanding the problems detailed here, based on the relatively low price someone posted earlier in this thread. But I have a question before I do: How does the Entre actually connect to the 5900? Do you have to route your audio and video through the Entre or is there just a control wire?

rbienstock,

Both actually. There is a setup diagram on Kenwood's site. The way I do is to place the entre in between my receiver and TV. There is a "pass through" button that will toggle on and off the entre gui. I haven't noticed any loss of quality. The entre comes with two data cables, one for the DVD and one for the receiver. On the audio side I just connect one optical cable to the receiver. There is an option for either a coax or optical cable input to the entre, but since I don't want to record anything onto the entre from tapes or records, I just left it out. Here's the link to the manual. Leave off the file name to list all of Kenwood's manuals.

ftp://upload.kenwoodusa.com/manuals/entresetup.pdf

Jason :)

If you live near a Tweeter drop by and look for deals on their floor models for the 5900 series. The one near me in Boston has a floor model entre for $300.

Originally posted by JoePP
If you live near a Tweeter drop by and look for deals on their floor models for the 5900 series. The one near me in Boston has a floor model entre for $300.

I will pay you to acquire it, and ship it to me. On top of paying for the Entre, of course.

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Mike,
Ah... you're right... my eject does not work for me either (it used to). So, that is an issue that I've had with my unit. However, since I rarely eject any discs, it's not a big issue for me.

Yeah, I don't do it often either, but for it to stop working within 10 days of buying the unit...

I've read on this thread that the audible vibrations is something that has a standard Kenwood repair solution attached to it.

Yes, and this gets to the heart of the matter. I bought this player a full year after the model was introduced, and the problem surfaced almost immediately according to posts here. But, a year later you still buy a player and it still has the problem.

But, I can see that you're situation is different than mine and many others contributing to this thread: Faroudja and DVD-A are not important to you (hence you buying the 5050 vs. the 5900), and since the Entre is only half-baked, the pluses of a single 5050 (100 extra discs and future daisychaining) aren't all that compelling to you.
Don't get me wrong. I want 400-disc capacity and daisychaining. But, it has to work. In the absence of working, I have enough inputs on my switcher and enough space in the rack for two separate players.

The devil's in the details, Kenwood. A one-week usability study would have uncovered all of these nits. Frustrating...
Amen.

entre on ebay for $430.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=800952093

Thanks a lot slocko, there goes my chance to pick up a cheap entre on ebay.:(

Slocko, note that I placed a bid at $460 and it is now $465. More importantly, note that the "reserve" has not been met at $465. This puppy probably won't get sold. Guess we'll find out in 3 days.

The reserve on that unit hasn't been met. I'm betting it won't go any cheaper than the others, since you can get them for $1148.

Well, we've gone from class-action lawsuits over the issue of no multichanger control, to the point where our desperation is beginning to reveal itself. We're now willing to buy 2d Entre units.

One final point on that issue. As I've gotten into my second changer, all of the "new" discs go into the second, No-Entre changer. Most of the time gets spent there, now. The Entre is now an occasional item.

Nick :cool:

Well, if anybody really, really wants one, the Entre I returned to The Good Guys in San Mateo, California is probably going back out as an open-box special. It was $799 when I bought it, and was in fine working order with the exception of the issues often-discussed here. I even left the most-recent software on it so that it won't need to fetch an update over the phone to use most of the USB Ethernet adapters.

Hi all,

I have had a 5900m for about 8 months now and I have not had any problems with it, except for one. That problem is not so much of a problem with my 5900 as it is with my home theater setup in general.

I promised my wife that when I was done with our new home and our new home theater she would be able to easily control our home theater functions (of course I wasn't sure how at the time, but some times you got to tell upper management (my wife) what they want to hear in order to get a project moving forward).

I did quite a bit of research on a number of different options (I'm still relatively new to the whole Audio\Video world). I felt that Crestron and AMX solutions were too expensive and finally decided on giving a Pronto and infrared relay a whirl. I programmed it and it seemed to work fine for me, mostly. However, then I sent it off to the Quality Assurance Department (again my wife).

So far She has had problems with the following. . .

Doesn't always point the IR at location of the IR receiver.

Doesn't think the 5900 is doing anything so starts hitting other buttons and gets lost.

Didn't realize she has to stop the DVD Player in order to bring up on screen menu. (I know I can program a stop function before the library button, but some DVDs don't allow you to stop them until you get to the menu section and that makes her think she is doing something wrong and gets frustrated. A bit of a problem when your dvd likes to auto play when you first turn it on, and when you change disks.)

Doesn't get the projector input set to right source. I have not yet found a discrete code that changes my Hitachi projector over to Component input, which is really what you want when watching a movie on my system. Satellite is on the Svideo input and Computer on the RGB\VGA connector so the 'auto detect' ir code does not always produce the desired result.

There are others that don't come to mind right now. So . . . .

After reading this thread for a while I thought I would take a shot at writing some code that would control the DVD Changer from a web page as a hobby. My theory was that if I got one changer working it shouldn't be too hard to get multiple changers working by simply adding serial ports to your PC. Byterunner, for example, makes a USB to 2 port RS232 expansion hub for around $40.

It has been about a month now of tinkering and I have the DVD Player Downloading all the disk titles to a web page and have the abiltiy to Select a Disk, Stop, Start, Pause, Skip Forward, and Skip Back. The functionality is similar to the NetNamer software Kenwood puts out with a few exceptions. I am writing the code for this as a server side Web component. The reason for this is so you can plug all your equipment into one centrally located PC and then access web pages on that pc accross your home network (wireless or not) and be able to initiate control remotely. With the right equipment (Tablet PC, Windows CE Device, Laptop etc.) you should then be able to just go to you home website to play DVDs and music through a whole house audio system or home theater equipment.

I am currently working on things like making sure the DVD tells you it is downloading disk titles or searching for a disk while you are waiting for it. I'm also looking into finding a way to handle associating the disk titles with additional user defined information (i.e Album art, director, year released etc.)

My Denon 5800 also has an Rs232 control port on it and I grabbed the protocol papers for it and plan to try and switch the input appropriately in conjunction with the type of audio being played.

I have not yet developed a distribution package nor have I done extensive testing (especially with multiple changers, I only have one). It is something I have been tinkering with and thought I would mention it. I would be willing to share more details with others if they have a similar interest.

Sorry for the long post, but I thought some of you might be interested.

Rkohlt

Sounds great, where's the code?

Also, there must be some rumors/facts from the HT Cruise attendees. Kenwood USA was making a show, and of course, it was Dave Bott's party. Someone who attended must have some inside info.

So whoever is willing, what's the news?

Can you also download title information down to the player like netnamer? This sounds great. Host the code somewhere and I will check it out. I would be interested if you can make it so the data can be saved and restored back to the player in one operation. Netnamer I believe makes you copy each disc title, one by one for restore operation.

Originally posted by rkohlt
Hi all,

It has been about a month now of tinkering and I have the DVD Player Downloading all the disk titles to a web page and have the abiltiy to Select a Disk, Stop, Start, Pause, Skip Forward, and Skip Back. The functionality is similar to the NetNamer software Kenwood puts out with a few exceptions. I am writing the code for this as a server side Web component. The reason for this is so you can plug all your equipment into one centrally located PC and then access web pages on that pc accross your home network (wireless or not) and be able to initiate control remotely. With the right equipment (Tablet PC, Windows CE Device, Laptop etc.) you should then be able to just go to you home website to play DVDs and music through a whole house audio system or home theater equipment.

Rkohlt

I agree that it would be great to be able to import and export the disk titles and track information to a master file. Right now I send the disk titles back from the 5900 as XML. In theory this should be possible, however it is not at the top of my list right now.

I have been spending most of my time trying to make sure the basic functions are solid. I am shooting to try and make something basic available by Thanksgiving.

If you are thinking you would like to give it a try you will need the following setup. A PC with W2K or XP Pro with IIS installed and a 5900 or 5050 connected to it via the serial port. On the client side you will need to have IE5.5 at a minimum.

If anyone has this setup with 2 5900s or 5050s and you want to do some testing with multichanger control, please contact me and I will see if we can set something up. If you have a high speed internet connection that would also be a tremendous help.

Originally posted by kelliot
Sounds great, where's the code?

Also, there must be some rumors/facts from the HT Cruise attendees. Kenwood USA was making a show, and of course, it was Dave Bott's party. Someone who attended must have some inside info.

So whoever is willing, what's the news?

Kenwood was on the cruise. They said . . . splash . . . glug . . glug . . .glug ("make them all walk the plank!").

Splash . . . splash . . . splash . . . (the sound of Entres being tossed overboard at the Great Sovereign Tea Party, of the HT Cruise--the rage of the peasant consumer, finally finding vent!).

The mystery words of Kenwood went down with the Entre. Forever, at the bottom of the deep blue sea.

Sincerely,

Davy Jones :cool:

But no thanks to Kenwood.

Thanks to Marantz, however, my RC9200 remote control can be set to both IR and RF signals, for different devices. That means that a second Entre can be used, no remote control confusion, no need for any more equipment like an IR router.

Kenwood Sovereign . . . offering multi-changer support. So long as you go multi on the Entre purchases.

Nick :cool:

Well, I was all set to call up Crutchfield and return the 5050 when I discovered to my dismay that the fine folks at Sony neglected to include Control A1-II on their DVD changers. So, no Slink-e control of the Sony changers. :mad: I could, of course, control them via IR, but that's not a reliable enough solution and doesn't allow disc identification.

Therefore, reluctantly, I'm going to keep the 5050 so that I can have a changer that can be controlled from the PC. I will eagerly await DVDLobby Pro 2.0!

Meantime, does anybody who has had the "failure to eject" problem have any solutions to it? Did you get the changer repaired/replaced? Was it an issue with the discs? I found upon experimentation that most of my discs will eject, but most of the ones in the 80-100 range will not. I don't know yet whether that's a changer issue or if those discs are somehow different.

I do remember feeling as if a couple of DVD's had somewhat-sticky edges, as if some adhesive had squeezed out during manufacture or something...

I'll investigate further.

Meantime, andybody out there successfully SDI modded a Kenwood? :)

Ugh! I just had a problem come up that I don't believe has been described here before. Here is what is going on. I have about 215 audio CDs and 20 DVDs loaded in my 5900.

While scrolling through my list of CDs via the Entre Guide, I selected one to play. The Entre changes to the track list screen with the big cover art image on the right as it should, but my changer did not respond. I hit stop, went back to the guide and picked a different disc. It loaded right up and played fine. I tried the previous disc again, but the changer just sits there.

I grabbed the remote for the changer and selected the problem disc and hit play using the changer's remote. It played fine.

I moved the CD to a different slot. The Entre now controls it perfectly. I put the CD back into slot 255 and the Entre refuses to start playback of the changer. I tried a different CD in slot 255, no control.

When I put any disc in slot 255, the Entre will recognize the new disc and read it, and gather all the Artist/Title/Track info. It just won't play the darn thing. This is happening only with slot 255 not matter the disc. The disc plays fine if I use the changer's transport functions, just not the Entre.

I have rebooted the Entre numerous times and cycled the changer's power on and off as well. Nothing has worked. The Entre simply refuses to send it's transport commands to slot 255.

Just so there is no confusion, the changer will play anything in slot 255 by itself. There is no problem reading whatever disc is in slot 255. And even though the Entre will recognize every disc I put in that slot, it just will not start playback.

The strange part is if I start playback of a disc in slot 255 with the changer's remote, I can stop or pause with the Entre remote, but other commands such as skip track results in the playback stopping.

No other slot seems affected by this strange behavior.

Anyone have any ideas I could try?

Thanks,
Bob

Hmmmm. 255 is 0xFF in hex. I can't feature why that would cause a problem on a system that supports 400 discs, but it is at least a curious coincidence.

I forgot to mention that the Entre previously had no problem with this slot. It had been few weeks since I played the disc in that slot, but it had worked many times before.

Some of you might be interested to see the early release of JuKen at www.sf.net/projects/juken.

I won't completely describe what is does (and doesn't!) do ... there is a readme in the zip.

Basically it consists of some commandline apps to allow the importing and exporting of data from the changer, and a simple control app.

For linux based users drop me a note if you need help building from source.

Enjoy

Rob

If anybody is interested, I am a Kenwood authorized Sovereign dealer. I cannot post prices on the web (only Crutchfield is authorized to post on the web), email me and I'm sure i can beat most prices. If a group of people agree to buy, I can really work on the price. Just wanted to present an alternative to your local retail outlet. Thanks.

Greetings,

So, having decided to keep the 5050, I went to put one of the emitters for my Xantech IR repeater on the changer. It has a huge IR window under the wheel, but nowhere that I put the emitter seemed to work.

Has anybody out there used the 5050 or 5900 with a Xantech repeater? Does anybody know if it uses a relatively normal IR carrier frequency that works well with these repeaters? Is the receiver actually down there in the big window under the knob?

If I can't get the repeater to work, I may have to go ahead and return the changer, since I can't use it in my rack if I can't use the repeater.

Thanks!

Okay, never mind. I found the receiver. It's right behind the label that says "96kHz". I guess the window below is the emitters for a 2-way remote.

JustMike,

Small tangent, but my changer is not easily in eye-shot (chairs and whatnot between the main couch and the changer), and I am looking for a cost-effective IR solution that will let me effectively extend the eye on the changer to a more accessible location on my rack.

Would you recommend Xantech or another manufacturer for such a simple need? Seems like Xantech is overkill, but I can't find anything simpler/cheaper.

Any info appreciated.

I really only have experience with the Xantech. When I was shopping, I was told that they were the most reliable, and there are certainly more expansion options with their system than with most of the less expensive ones. I think the complete system was under $150 for the low-profile receiver that I bought and the powered distribution box for the emitters.

One note: I initially bought the "CF Friendly" receiver, which is supposed to reject the noise from compact fluorescent light bulbs. It did that very well, but it also sadly didn't work with the remote codes for the ReplayTV. Given that that was somewhat less than ideal, I got the regular one, and it works just fine -- it's more responsive with all devices than the CF Friendly one, and it works fine even with the CF lights on (although the "receive" telltale does flicker).

(PS: If anybody does actually need the CF Friendly low-profile Xantech receiver, feel free to PM me. I didn't get 'round to returning it and I'm not using it.)

At $810, the deal closed today. This was a brand new one. Interestingly, it was from a "power dealer," who had set the reserve at lower than that amount.

Multichanger support is just around the corner, with affordable, multi Entres.

Nick :cool:

Problem:

Out of the blue am getting "Updating, Please Wait" on the Entre and it will not function again till I reboot. Have had to reboot everyday for past three days. Any thoughts?

Hello again everyone!
Well, I'm re-invigorated by the sun and sea air of the HT Cruise, and back monitoring the group...did you miss me?
Re: the "Updating, Please Wait" message seen by JN Young, how long does this message stay on screen? When Entre gets new software (even if it's just fresh OpenGlobe or banner info) it often generates this message while it rebuilds the media library and basically gets its wits together. Leave some more details, and we'll work through it!
Re: Xantech, similar emitters, you might want to take a look at the LeapFrog or maybe even one of thise lil Pyramid IR doodads they sell at The Shack. Keep in mind that the Xantech solution might be a bit more elegant though, as you can skip the front panel IR emitter and plug right into the rear panel IR input (labeled "DVD Control") using an 1/8" mono plug (tip hot, ring ground)
Cheers
Jeff (from Kenwood)

Just reviewed the posts for the past couple weeks...and I thought Nicolas, er "Davy Jones" didn't have a sense of humour...
:)

JD-NH,

Ahhh... thank you for mentioning the "xantech from the rear" position! (sorry, couldn't resist)

Very cool... I think that clinches me going Xantech. Having little IR receivers suctioning onto the front of my equipment seemed kinda, umm, aquatic.

Originally posted by JD-NH
Hello again everyone!
Well, I'm re-invigorated by the sun and sea air of the HT Cruise, and back monitoring the group...did you miss me?

Everyone wore a black arm band with your initials, Jeff. Now that you're back (sharpen the spears, guys!) . . . okay, what's the Vegas over-under on how long Jeff lasts this time? ;)

you might want to take a look at the LeapFrog or maybe even one of thise lil Pyramid IR doodads they sell at The Shack. Keep in mind that the Xantech solution might be a bit more elegant though, as you can skip the front panel IR emitter and plug right into the rear panel IR input (labeled "DVD Control") using an 1/8" mono plug (tip hot, ring ground)
Cheers
Jeff (from Kenwood)

That's what I do, and I figured out that it accepted the 1/8" plug just recently. My changers are in a cabinet, and this is a lot cleaner signal to them than either an IR emitter stick-em, or by just pointing the pyramid at the front of the changer panel.

To those who will daisy chain, note that the Sub1 and Sub2 units still need to receive the remote signal, despite being attached to the main unit. In other words, if the main unit is in the path of the IR signal, but the Sub1 unit is not, you can't count on the signal being transmitted from the Main unit. The sub unit needs to get the signal on its own.

Nick :cool:

Posted by Tom Blake on 12-18-01 12:59 AM:
One Piece of Good News About Entre

I discovered the IR repeater input jack on the rear panel of the Entre can accept the direct output from a Xantech IR connector block (using a 3.5 mm mono plug cable). The remote response seems much better with this connection method vs. using an IR emitter from the connector block stuck to the IR receiver eye on the Entre. Looks better too! I'll try the same experiment with the DVD control input jack on the rear panel of the 5900M. I'm less hopeful this will work, however, as the manual says it only works with Kenwood receivers.


IR input jack control was mentioned 11 months ago by Tom but I didn't recall anyone every confirming that the 5900 worked as well...until now. Apparently the manuals aren't clear on the compatibility of the controlers they work with.

Seems like this would be a good item for the FAQ webpage (well not to mention the manual).

P.S. Good "tangent" topic Mike and Jon.

Jeff, welcome back! Thanks for the tip on the IR input to the back! I'll definitely consider it! The funny thing is: my Xantech distribution block "only" has about 6 jacks on it, so I'm using double-head emitters. If I plug directly in on the 5050 or on my Lexicon (which has a similar jack), then I don't have enough plugs left! ;) Time to get an expansion block...

Jeff,

So any word on wether the fix for the multiple changer control is coming? Anything?

FYI --

I just spoke with Xantech tech support, and they are very (though apparently incorrectly) confident that their devices do not work with the Kenwood changers.

He asked me why I asserted that it would, and I mentioned the good folks on the AVSforum. He intimated that you don't know what you're talking about.

Just thought everyone should know that you're all wrong. :)

Jon,

Were you asking specifically about plugging into the back, or using the IR repeater on the front? I can tell you with certainty that the repeater works fine. I can answer the other question definitively this evening, if you'd like. ;)

JD NH

Message stays on the screen until I reboot. Left it up overnight and it was still there "updating" 8 hours later. Might note that I'm able to shift from IR to Music to MP3 to Movies, go to OpenGlobe etc., while it's locked up. None of the modes show library details; just blank spaces where my IR stations and CD's and movies used to be.

JM,

Xantech was denying compatibility by going direct (plugging it into the back via the 1/8" jack).

re: Xantech compatibility

They might be confusing our System Control link found on our CD Changers (labeled XS8, SL16, etc) with the DVD Control link. Both use an 1/8" jack and the former is definitely not compatible.

The DVD Control input is defintely a regular IR direct plug-in.

Cheers
Jeff

JN Young-
Try this:
1.Press the Setup button on your Entre remote
2.Press the number "5" four times
3.A backdoor menu will come onscreen.
NOTE: PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL HERE
4.Select the "Rebuild LIbrary Index" option (might not be exact wording, but you'll see what I'm talking about)
5.This will take a couple minutes, but should verify all your MP3, iRadio, cd, and dvd data.
6.When this is finished, go back into the "Setup" menu,
7. select "utilities" and then
8. select "update software"

Hopefully your Entre will get the information it needs from OG and will now operate correctly. If not, repost or PM me.
Thanks
Jeff

Originally posted by JD-NH
JN Young-
Try this:
...
. If not, repost or PM me.
Thanks
Jeff

Now this is *exactly* what kenwood needs to be doing for the avs community ...

Thanks for your renewed presence Jeff

JD NH

I will will give it a try this evening and report back. Thanks for the help.

Holy Crap, JD-NH!!! If you keep this up, even *I* might buy an Entre to mate with my DV-5900M!

The new face of KW Sovereign, anyone?

JD-NH, after seeing all the Entre heartache on this board, this post make me smile from ear to ear... and I don't even own an Entre (yet). People here will really appreciate this kind of insight.

Watch JD-NH announce multi-changer support 1 day after Nicholas buys his 3rd Entre... :)

Jon


Originally posted by JD-NH
JN Young-
Try this:
1.Press the Setup button on your Entre remote
2.Press the number "5" four times
3.A backdoor menu will come onscreen.
NOTE: PLEASE BE VERY CAREFUL HERE
4.Select the "Rebuild LIbrary Index" option (might not be exact wording, but you'll see what I'm talking about)
5.This will take a couple minutes, but should verify all your MP3, iRadio, cd, and dvd data.
6.When this is finished, go back into the "Setup" menu,
7. select "utilities" and then
8. select "update software"

Hopefully your Entre will get the information it needs from OG and will now operate correctly. If not, repost or PM me.
Thanks
Jeff

Originally posted by JonDeutsch

Watch JD-NH announce multi-changer support 1 day after Nicholas buys his 3rd Entre... :)

Jon

Well, I'm looking for Entre Number 2 right now. The one on eBay went for $810, and it was brand new. I would have bought that one, but, you snooze you lose.

They're on the web for $1148, but I'd like to pay much less than that. See how much I like Entre?

Nick :cool:

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
FYI --

I just spoke with Xantech tech support, and they are very (though apparently incorrectly) confident that their devices do not work with the Kenwood changers.



Are X-10 and Xantech the same company? The Powermids that I use are X-10.

Nick :cool:

I'd be delighted to return to The Good Guys and re-buy that Entre if Kenwood and OpenGlobe would fix the disc identification issues. JD-NH, and chance of that? The problems I've seen:

1) Discs not identified in "bulk" scans, but identified if you do it one at a time.
2) Discs in the database not identified by the changer
3) Some discs in multi-disc sets recognized, others not.
4) Some discs mis-identified as other titles.
5) One disc (Fawlty Towers) which came up with the wrong info (completely: art, title, description, etc) when searched for using the title string "Fawlty Towers".
6) No way to display multiple disc matches and select from among them. So, for instance, in my "Sherlock Holmes" set, I couldn't format a manual search string that would find information for two of the four discs. If I could have simply typed "Sherlock Holmes" and then picked the right one, that would have been totally and completely acceptable.

I would even be happy if the PC software that talks to the Entre were necessary in order to handle the ambiguous cases. I just want there to be some way!

As a follow up, if anyone knows where I can pick up an Entre unit more cheaply than the price I posted above ($1148 new), let me know. Ideally, I'd like to get an open-box unit, and pay in the vicinity of $900.

Then I can let you all know what it's like to have two Entres. But if anyone knows of any deals, and you don't want it yourself, please pass it along.

Thanks,

Nick :cool:

Nick,

I hear Tweeters in the Delaware Valley area are blowing out open box buys for under $500. Check out a Tweeter-owned company in the Ohio area, if you have them.

Originally posted by JonDeutsch
Nick,

I hear Tweeters in the Delaware Valley area are blowing out open box buys for under $500. Check out a Tweeter-owned company in the Ohio area, if you have them.

None in Ohio. But I'll gladly pay someone $100 to go pick it up for me, on top of paying for the product and the shipping.

Nick :cool:

amargiot check your private messages in this forum. I replied to one of your earlier posts.

Nick, try calling some dealers to see if they will ship you a demo unit. I had a store ship me a demo entre and the shipping was only 7 dollars.

Nick, I found this:

http://horizonaudiovideo.com/store/product.asp?id=128

--
Umberto
Altadena, CA

Has anyone tried a DVD-R or DVD+R disc in the DV-5900M?

I am considering a DVD burner and was curious what the compatibility of the unit was with these formats.

Thanks,
BJBBJB

BJBBJB,

I've had success playing DVD+RW burned on a HP DVD-writer 200i in the DV-5900M. Disc was burned using Sonic's MyDVD program, video files included 720x480 AVI and MPEG files as well as VCD-resolution AVI files. Menus and chapters all worked fine. I've only done three discs, all on Memorex DVD+RW media - your mileage may vary. There is a post on VCDhelp.com that claims DVD-RW compatibility for the 5900M as well.

Mike

I have had success with DVD+RW and DVD-R with both premium and budget media.

The unit will play DVD's authored with non standard video and audio. eg. I burn DVD-R's of Tivo extracted video which is 480x480 with MP2 audio, and they play fine on my 5900M.

Kenwood support's official position is that the 5900 does not support DVD+-R R/W, but it does, they just don't want to help diagnose our authoring problems.