Hi, I'm new here and hope someone can help me understand what I should do to get Cbear operating with Fios cable.

About Cbear: Cbear is an American distributor of Asian-made wireless TV products who sells on Ubid and eBay. They appear to have exclusive US rights to these boxes. The wireless TV box comes with a transmitter, receiver, and remote. Like Angeltrax, but unlike typical cable repeaters, Cbear is supposed to allow different channel viewing on the remote TV than the channel going to the cabled tc, directly from connecting to the cable coming into the house.

Customers who I have talked to receiving analog cable say this gizmo works wonders for them. I would like to know if anyone reading this has had success with it working with digital cable or FIOS.

My understanding is that analog cable doesn't encrypt, so Cbear would be able to easily pass on all cable channels to the remote tv from using the handheld remote. However, my understanding is that FIOS does encrypt, so while Cbear might well be able to transmit the FIOS signals fine to my remote tv, the signals would still be encrypted (except for local clear channels).

Interestly, I have read on several sites that FIOS customers have been able to go out of their one Set-Up Box to connect some sort of IR wireless system. I do have one STB which is the standard Motorola box known as QIP2500.

My question is this: The STB both decrypts the FIOS signals and converts the digital signals so my old analog tv comes in great. Is there a way to connect Cbear to the STB so that the output Cbear would send after the STB converted and decrypted, I could get clear analog signals via Cbear to my remote tv and allow me to receive a different channel on my remote tv than the tv connected directly to the box?

PS: On the box sent by Cbear, it is called "CableEZ" by the OEM.

Thanks in advance for any help you can give.

All Verizon channels above 50 are encrypted, so you cannot tune anything >50 without Verizon's Motorola STB/DVR or CableCard STB/DVR like the TivoHD.

The Verizon STBs will only output one channel at a time. Anything connected to composite or s-video on the Verizon STB will be limited to one channel at a time.

The Verizon STBs will only output one channel at a time. Anything connected to composite or s-video on the Verizon STB will be limited to one channel at a time.

Thanks for your response, BF.

My understanding is that to receive more than one unencrypted channel you would not be using either the composite or s-video, but IF out, serial, or IR. What do you know about these outputs from standard fios STB?

Thanks for your response, BF.

My understanding is that to receive more than one unencrypted channel you would not be using either the composite or s-video, but IF out, serial, or IR. What do you know about these outputs from standard fios STB?You will not get more than one unencrypted channel via any output on the FiOS' Motorola STBs. The HD STBs and DVRs do not even have coax output, only HDMI, component, s-video, and composite.

The HD STBs and DVRs do not even have coax output, only HDMI, component, s-video, and composite.

Thanks again, bf. It that's true, then what about output from Verizon's HD STB or their DVR for IR, RF and serial?

Also, do any Verizon products use a CableCard? I see that CableLabs now has certified Motorola, Verizon's STB provider, for the M-CableCard that would allow up to 6 different decrypted channel streams from just one STB. Motorola lists the following cable providers as M-CableCard ready:

* Bresnan Communications
* Brighthouse Networks
* Cablevision
* CableOne
* Charter Communications
* Cogeco Cable Inc.
* Comcast
* Cox Communications
* Eastlink
* Insight
* Knology
* Mediacom
* Patriot Media
* RCN
* Rogers
* Shaw
* Time Warner Cable

Verizon is not on the list. I hear that as a new cable provider who could have quickly and easily moved to the new M-Card technology, Verizon instead has been fighting it tooth and nail and has asked Congress/FCC for a waiver for the deadline stating that the cost to upgrage to M-Cards would dramatically be cost-prohibitive while they are spending to roll-out Fios. Most online commentators state that Verizon just wants to maintain their proprietary decryption and make consumers buy more STBs while also keeping electronics manufacturers locked-out from creating 3rd party devices. Anyone know where M-Cards and Verizon are at now and did Verizon get their requested deadline waiver for implementation?

Now, it seems to me that if I had one of the providers listed above that gave me a STB with a M-Cablecard, I'd have no problem of using Cbear to send a clear, analog signal to a remote TV which would show a different channel on it. (The STB would convert to analog for my old TV and decrypt.) I could also easily record to a separate DVD using another of the M-Card streams.

Do I understand this correctly? If so, then the M-Cablecard is the definitive consumer solution! No need to purchase a $1000 S-Cablecard TV now or have to rent two S-Cablecards to use TIVO or be forced to rent the Verizon poor-quality DVR.

Thanks again, bf. It that's true, then what about output from Verizon's HD STB or their DVR for IR, RF and serial?There is no video from those connections. IR is used to control the box with a remote and serial is used by Verizon for diagnostics. There is no RF output.

Product datasheet for FiOS' Motorola DVR (http://broadband.motorola.com/catalog/product_documents/QIP6416-520408-001-a.pdf)

Also, do any Verizon products use a CableCard? I see that CableLabs now has certified Motorola, Verizon's STB provider, for the M-CableCard that would allow up to 6 different decrypted channel streams from just one STB.TiVo supports single-stream CableCards today for users of TVs and TiVos with CableCard slots, and they plan to deploy M-Cards early next year for users of those devices.

For all practical purposes, M-Cards are limited to two tuners today because no product incorporates more than two tuners. M-Cards only support tuners actually inside the STB/DVR. It does not do anything for output from the box; output from the box is always limited to one channel at a time.

Current STBs and DVRs supporting MCARD are just like the old STBs and DVRs, except they use a CableCard for decryption rather than having that decryption built-in. There is no functional difference; the boxes non-CableCard and CableCard boxes act exactly the same for the end-user.

Verizon is not on the list. I hear that as a new cable provider who could have quickly and easily moved to the new M-Card technology, Verizon instead has been fighting it tooth and nail and has asked Congress/FCC for a waiver for the deadline stating that the cost to upgrage to M-Cards would dramatically be cost-prohibitive while they are spending to roll-out Fios. Most online commentators state that Verizon just wants to maintain their proprietary decryption and make consumers buy more STBs while also keeping electronics manufacturers locked-out from creating 3rd party devices. Anyone know where M-Cards and Verizon are at now and did Verizon get their requested deadline waiver for implementation?I don't know who told you the above, but it is not true.

Verizon has nothing against M-Cards and plans to deploy them in early 2008. They did oppose the non-integration ban and received a waiver from the FCC by agreeing to eliminate all analog channels from all systems by March, 2009. New FiOS deployments are being made without any analog channels (ex: FiOS in Oregon).

The non-integration ban requires providers to purchase new STBs and DVRs using CableCards for decryption rather than built-in decryption. That presented a problem for Verizon because they use IP -- rather than QAM like other providers -- for guide data and VOD, and none of the new CableCard boxes from Motorola and Scientific Atlanta support that. Furthermore, Verizon already placed a multi-billion dollar order for new STBs and DVRs with MPEG-4 to support future delivery of channels with IPTV.

Basically, had Verizon been forced to comply with the non-integration ban, they would have had to purchase hundreds of thousands of new STBs that (1) would not support their existing guide data, (2) would not support their existing VOD, and (3) would be replaced with their next-generation MPEG-4 STBs in two years.

Now, it seems to me that if I had one of the providers listed above that gave me a STB with a M-Cablecard, I'd have no problem of using Cbear to send a clear, analog signal to a remote TV which would show a different channel on it. (The STB would convert to analog for my old TV and decrypt.) I could also easily record to a separate DVD using another of the M-Card streams.You're a little confused about what CableCards do. They provide decryption in the box for whatever tuners are in the box, so the DVR can record multiple channels at once. M-Cards do not give you multiple streams on the coax. Output from the box is still one channel at a time.

There is no video from those connections. IR is used to control the box with a remote and serial is used by Verizon for diagnostics. There is no RF output.

Thanks for your take, bf. I've receieved email with a photo where there is RF out. This is a q2500-3 box, so it may have been updated since last you looked at it.

Also, I've read that the serial port once worked so that it could be set up to facilitate remote viewing, but then Verizon blocked the port. What is your understanding of Verizon closing the port?

Also, thanks for the link for Verizon's DVR. I see it has a Cablecard slot as does the q2500-3. A few questions about this, if you can help:

1) Do you need to have a card in the slot for the boxes to work or do they currently decrypt without any card in the slot?;

2) If they are cable of decryption without any card inserted then they were planned for future use and must be design either for the SCard or the MCard. Which one is it?;

3) If not designed to take advantage of the MCard's multistream decryption functionality, then when do you think Verizon will be issuing boxes that do (Not just MCards that will work as SCards in a Scard slot)?; and

4) Does the current DVR in its current incarnation stream any content that otherwise, on a lesser STB, would be encrypted?

Also, just speaking in the state of the art right now, today, if I had a TV with a CableCard slot, would I also need to have a STB attached with cable coming into the hose somewhere else in the residence for its card to work? If not, then what about the fiber optics coming into my house? Would the card communicate with it in any way or would I have to physically attach the cable to CableCard TV?

For all practical purposes, M-Cards are limited to two tuners today because no product incorporates more than two tuners. M-Cards only support tuners actually inside the STB/DVR.

Are there any MCard ready products yet from the Electronics Industry? I thought it was a "chicken and egg" thing where the Cable Industry said, "If there were hosts for MCards, we would do it" and the Electronics Industry said, "If you would finalize the standard and chill on the CableLabs certification, we would build them."

At the Motorola site, they describe their intent in their envolvement of these technologies by stating:

"The Motorola Multi-stream CableCARD (MCard) allows users to watch and/or record their programming from multiple, simultaneous tuners using a single CableCARD. It supports multi-directional signaling, and advanced features and interactive and pay-for-view services."

With the MCard capable of decrypting 6 different channels simultaneously, a household could be watching different content on several TVs while recording on their DVR and with the multi-directional signaling, perhaps even a wireless tuner could be added for remote areas in the house. What do you think?

Current STBs and DVRs supporting MCARD are just like the old STBs and DVRs, except they use a CableCard for decryption rather than having that decryption built-in. There is no functional difference; the boxes non-CableCard and CableCard boxes act exactly the same for the end-user.

If you are saying a STB currently is just a piece of decryption hardware that can only decrypt one cable channel and the SCard can only do that as well, I agree. However, the MCard has a lot of advanced features and distinct possibilites for the manufacturers to play with now that we finally have MCards to a standard and in manufature. Who's to say a manufacturer--and NOT a cableco--will not take advantage of six multiple streams from one card to give me the wireless solution I so desparately need right now?

You're a little confused about what CableCards do. They provide decryption in the box for whatever tuners are in the box, so the DVR can record multiple channels at once. M-Cards do not give you multiple streams on the coax. Output from the box is still one channel at a time.

I'm not so sure about this. In researching the legistlative intent behind this "OPEN" cable switchover, it appears Congress wants the consumers switching over to digital-encryped from analog-unencrypted content to not be solely considered a new "market share" for the selling of STBs by cablecos--selling them boxes for every room of their house.

I believe my vision is more appropriate with the legislative intent. Let's see what the manufacturers do with the MCard and here's $100 to bet that say there will be at least one new wireless solution emerging that will give me a different channel remotely from ONE Mcard located elsewhere in the house.

Thanks for your take, bf. I've receieved email with a photo where there is RF out. This is a q2500-3 box, so it may have been updated since last you looked at it. That's the SD box.

Verizon's SD boxes do have coax output, but it only outputs the current channel.

Also, I've read that the serial port once worked so that it could be set up to facilitate remote viewing, but then Verizon blocked the port. What is your understanding of Verizon closing the port?If you call Verizon, they will enable serial (or would, the last I checked). This allows boxes like the old Series2 Tivo to change the channel with a serial connection, which tends to work better than using IR signals.

Also, thanks for the link for Verizon's DVR. I see it has a Cablecard slot as does the q2500-3. A few questions about this, if you can help:Neither of those boxes has a CableCard slot. A smartcard slot is not a CableCard slot. A CableCard is the size of a PCMCIA / ExpressCard in a notebook.

Verizon does not actually use this slot, as far as I know. It's optional.

If not designed to take advantage of the MCard's multistream decryption functionality, then when do you think Verizon will be issuing boxes that do (Not just MCards that will work as SCards in a Scard slot)?; andThere is no difference in functionality between CableCard and non-CableCard boxes from the cable company. The reason we have CableCards and the integration-ban is so that boxes like the TivoHD can be sold at retail that will support any cable provider, thereby providing consumers with retail choices, i.e. alternatives to the cable company box.

Verizon has not yet disclosed the specifications on its next-generation boxes. I doubt they will use CableCards -- I think downloadable encryption (DCAS) is more likely. That is the direction Motorola and Scientific Atlanta are headed as well. CableCard is really an interim solution until DCAS is ready in two years.

DCAS will allow the cable company to download their decryption system directly into a box rather than relying on a CableCard to do the job. CableCards cost $100+/ea in quantity so you can see why cable companies would want to eliminate them from their own boxes asap. CableCards will still be available for use by the customer (and their own hardware) for the forseeable future, however.

4) Does the current DVR in its current incarnation stream any content that otherwise, on a lesser STB, would be encrypted?Verizon has a multiroom option in their software. You can enable it for about $5/mo. This allows the DVR to stream SD recordings to SD STBs; the ability to stream HD recordings to HD boxes is expected mid-2008.

There is no way to upload recordings to the Verizon DVR, as you can a Tivo.

Also, just speaking in the state of the art right now, today, if I had a TV with a CableCard slot, would I also need to have a STB attached with cable coming into the hose somewhere else in the residence for its card to work?No. Once you plugged the CableCard into the TV, you would have no need for the cable company STB. Keep in mind that most TVs only have a single digital tuner (so no PiP) and no built-in DVR.

You should also be aware that current unidirectional (one-way) receiver implementations in consumer devices cannot download guide data or VOD from the cable company. TiVo downloads their own guide data using an ethernet connection, but most TVs cannot do the same. Some TVs have built-in guide software from Gemstar -- very similar to what you may have seen on older VCRs -- which is able to grab the limited guide information sent by Gemstar via PBS (VBI) and/or CBS O&O (ATSC datacast) stations, but this free guide information is not available in all areas.

If not, then what about the fiber optics coming into my house? Would the card communicate with it in any way or would I have to physically attach the cable to CableCard TV?Not sure I understand this question.

The fiber connects to an ONT on the side of your home (or in your basement). The ONT has coax and ethernet outputs for TV and Internet.

Are there any MCard ready products yet from the Electronics Industry? I thought it was a "chicken and egg" thing where the Cable Industry said, "If there were hosts for MCards, we would do it" and the Electronics Industry said, "If you would finalize the standard and chill on the CableLabs certification, we would build them."The TivoHD is the only retail product to support MCARDs at this point in time; it is able to support both (two) built-in tuners with a single MCARD. I'm not certain, but I believe the dual-tuner version of the ATI OCUR product (oems only) for Vista also supports dual-tuners with a single M-Card.

With the MCard capable of decrypting 6 different channels simultaneously, a household could be watching different content on several TVs while recording on their DVR and with the multi-directional signaling, perhaps even a wireless tuner could be added for remote areas in the house. What do you think?You would need some sort of whole house CableCard DVR solution with six tuners. No such products exist at this time, as far as I know.

The only difference between 'S' Cards and MCARDs is the ability to decrypt multiple streams. A 'S' card can only decrypt one stream; a MCARD can decrypt up to six (if you have six tuners in the box).

Both 'S' CableCards and MCARDs can support two-way services such as VOD, SDV, and guide downloads. However, to take advantage of two-way services, your box or TV must have a bidirectional (two-way) receiver. None do and none are announced. At the moment, the only bidirectional CableCard devices on the market are the Motorola and SA STBs.

Samsung, LG, and one or two other vendors have demonstrated bidirectional receiver products using OCAP. These single-tuner and dual-tuner boxes would be sold at retail, and when supplied with a CableCard and connected to your coax, they would download the guide software from your cable company and function just like your cable box, except you would own it. These boxes are not on the market yet because only a small percentage of cable companies (namely, TWC) currently have OCAP UI software available for download.

Who's to say a manufacturer--and NOT a cableco--will not take advantage of six multiple streams from one card to give me the wireless solution I so desparately need right now?These products don't exist now for several reasons: (1) cost of hardware -- it's expensive; and (2) lack of available OCAP software -- until OCAP software is readily available more cable companies, vendors must spend millions to write their own software and license all applicable UI and DVR patents.

To illustrate the costs, a dual-tuner TivoHD with a 160Gb hard drive costs Tivo almost $300 to manufacture and distribute in quantity. They sell it for a loss at retail and recoup that through monthly fees. If you want a dual-tuner product like this without a subscription, you would have to pay $600+ at retail. A six tuner product -- if one arrives in a year or two -- will probably cost at least twice that.

As far as I know, the technology does not yet exist to produce a six-tuner DVR with decryption by a single CableCard. If you are a manufacturer and want to build a DVR today, your options are very limited. Aside from the SA boxes (based on ATI hardware), all shipping sub-$1000 DVRs are based on Broadcom DVR CPUs. This cost-effective solution supports a maximum of three active tuners.

Today, you can buy (build) a Vista Media Center PC (http://www.dell.com/content/products/productdetails.aspx/xpsdt_420?c=us&cs=19&l=en&s=dhs&%7Etab=bundlestab) with three, dual-tuner CableCard tuners. You'll have to buy it with one dual-tuner card, then buy two additional dual-tuner cards separately. That will give you six total tuners, but will require three MCARDs to support**. You could then stream recordings and channels to any room with a Vista Media Center Extender like an Xbox360.

** I'm assuming ATI's dual-tuner OCUR solution fully supports MCARDs. A software hack is also required to support six tuners in Vista.

Thanks for some helpful info bf.

I understand about the current decryption of only one channel output only too well. What is the "smart card" and why is Verizon using boxes with their slots?

Nice to know Verizon will reestablish the serial port if requested on the STB. I've asked about the other ports on the box exactly for what you surmised: "Plan IV:Get Tivo". Question: If you ask Verizon to unblock the port for one STB, do they just hit a switch and it unblocks the serial port on all the STBs you have?

The reason we have CableCards and the integration-ban is so that boxes like the TivoHD can be sold at retail that will support any cable provider, thereby providing consumers with retail choices, i.e. alternatives to the cable company box.

Correct. The legislative intent is to separate the security functions from processing functions of the box to stop the complete vertical integration by the cable industry, a monopolistic practice. Did you see what the cablecos argued in front of Congress, trying to maintain their vertical integration? Very funny stuff...but at least they did present some sort of argument.

I think downloadable encryption (DCAS) is more likely. That is the direction Motorola and Scientific Atlanta are headed as well. CableCard is really an interim solution until DCAS is ready in two years.

Yes, I agree. Ars Technica has a great white paper on DCAS online. It also appears this may be more than two years from now, since isn't there still quibbling going on between the cablecos and the manufacturers? Aren't the cablecos asking for more control of new generation devices than just "download decryption key and digital rights management"? Do manufacturers really want cablecos soldering cableco chips on their boards?

The reason Verizon and other cablecos got their deadline waiver now was because they were able to finally show Congress that DCAS was more than a possibility and they weren't just BSing about it to maintain their STBs as long as possible. A working prototype of this technology (which also cuts into the cablecos vertical integration since the DCAS is downloaded into 3rd party devices) also convinced legislators that the cablecos weren't intentionally stalling on the Cablecards solely to maintain their STB cash cows. So Congress gave them the waiver.

You should also be aware that current undirectional (one-way) receiver implementations in consumer devices cannot download guide data or VOD from the cable company.

Yes, I have heard the rantings of consumers about lack of PIP and pay-per-view with the SCard. Others reading this thread might be interested to know that this is coming to Cablecards soon. However, bf, for me, I do not care anything about advanced features and products, including HD, PIP, OnDemand, Online Guides, etc.

ALL I WANT IS A WIRELESS WAY TO GET ALL UNENCRYPTED CONTENT FROM ALL AVAILABLE CHANNELS FROM SOME DEVICE TO A REMOTE TV OR MONITOR (EVEN A CELL PHONE WOULD DO.) NO CABLES.

The TivoHD is the only retail product to support MCARDs at this point in time; it is able to support both (two) built-in tuners with a single MCARD. I'm not certain, but I believe the dual-tuner version of the ATI OCUR product (oems only) for Vista also supports dual-tuners with a single M-Card.

I think Sony took the plunge with MCards for PC tuners and what about AMD? Also, Motorola is currently manufacturing both MCards and smaller STBs for them. Then there is SA. Ahem.

However, I agree it is disappointing that the vast majority of manufacturers don't know what to do about MCards. Their first foray with the SCard was such a disaster and they got burned badly. Can't blame them waiting to see a manufactured MCard before they gear up to manufacture devices for it. BTW, what's the word on the reliability and ease-of-install of the MCard?

You would need some sort of whole house CableCard DVR solution with six tuners. No such products exist at this time, as far as I know.

Yes. That is it exactly. For me, I don't even need all six streams. Just two or three...I'm not greedy. Some sort of DVR master controller panel with all sort of goodies on the back for different decrypted streams. One set of stream connections would be reserved for Cbear to wirelessly transmit that stream elsewhere.

There is a huge upcoming market for this device. You know how many subscribers there are in USA for unencrypted analog right now with NO STBs attached to their 20-30 devices? You know how upset they are going to be when their cablecos go 100% encrypted digital, charging them $10 per device per month (plus monthly service) and not per household?

This is where we go back to legislative intent. The 1996 Act was to OPEN the box for both manufacturers and consumers. These sorts of monthly charges for STBs (and CableCards for that matter) are doing the opposite. We can hope that when we do move to DCAS, there will be no more monthly fees. Instead, cablecos could just charge if a device's security has been comprised when they have to download a new algorithm from the headend.

As far as I know, the technology does not yet exist to produce a six-tuner DVR with decryption by a single CableCard.

Look, we know that the Tivo will be able to use TWO streams from ONE MCard simultaneously. Let's just up it to a device with THREE streams. Again, it's an economies of scale thing for the manufacturers. Show them the above demographics and they will build...IF they trust the cable industry's product first.

I like the idea of your humongo Media Center PC with three dual-tuners. How about just one triple-tuner? Any technological blocks to a triple-tuner? That even has a great marketing sound to it: "Get yer Triple-Tuner with yer Triple-Play right here."

Now, as visionary as I may be, I do have this current problem which, if I had unencrypted analog right now, would be solved by Cbear. Being forced to move along to possibly Plan IV and only knowing TIVO from playing with it briefly at friends' homes, is there anyway I could do something cool with an old Tivo to beam a choice of content to a remote monitor? (It could record from STB in another room when noone is watching that TV.)

PS: Next message I've got an interesting pix to put up for you.