I'm currently running 2 Paradigm PW-2200 subs, and was wondering if a single PB13-ultra would be a big improvement. My room is 15x19x7.5.

Which version of the PW are you running, the V.1, V.2, or V.3? I currently have ONE PW-2200 V.2 (400 watt RMS amp). I have a 15 x 18 space open on one side, with a vaulted 14' ceiling (size of room is about 2800 cu ft or so).


Do you have the PW stacked, or are they staggered in the room? (edit: Never mind - I checked out your sig - nice room btw - good job on risers, etc. You gave me a lot of ideas for my h/t room when I'm ready to build it next winter! - With the way you have your PW's - I would like to think a single PB would be a better (two would be really sweet if you can afford them). Have you thought of buying a BFD or something to equalize the PW though? That may be a much cheaper option).

With the one PW it doesn't exactly make my pants flap (but neither does a movie theatre) but it sure does a good job of shaking my couch. The PW is definitely not as refined (at least from what I've read) as the SVS PB, but two of them should get pretty close if not exceed the SPL of a single PB in the 25 hz range on up. Below 25 hz though, I would imagine the PB would far superior than even two PW's based on the PB reviews/measurements I've seen.

I have the V.1. At one time I had them stacked but didn't notice much of an improvement. I've had these for awhile now and since the upgrade bug has hit me again I might as well get one that would be up to par with my mains. And 2 of them is not out of the question. I might pick one up before I sell my Paradigms and do an A-b test. I know I have some room node problems but I am trying to deal with them.
I know that the 2200 is a pretty good sub, thats why I kept them for so long. But it may be time to move on. Thanks.

I have the V.1. At one time I had them stacked but didn't notice much of an improvement. I've had these for awhile now and since the upgrade bug has hit me again I might as well get one that would be up to par with my mains. And 2 of them is not out of the question. I might pick one up before I sell my Paradigms and do an A-b test. I know I have some room node problems but I am trying to deal with them.
I know that the 2200 is a pretty good sub, thats why I kept them for so long. But it may be time to move on. Thanks.


Well - I have one coming this week (I hope). If you want - I can let you know how it compares. Though as I mentioned, I only have the one PW to compare the PB too, not two like you do. And my room is awful right now for sound (no bass traps or anything like that) but I should still get a good sense of how it compares.

I'll keep you posted!

The PB13U will play much lower in freq and it sounds so much better. The PW2200s sound boomy and loose vs the PB13U tight dynamic sound. Try a PB13U and return it if you dont like it, but my bet is you wont because its quite brilliant.

John

The PB13U will play much lower in freq and it sounds so much better. The PW2200s sound boomy and loose vs the PB13U tight dynamic sound. Try a PB13U and return it if you dont like it, but my bet is you wont because its quite brilliant.

John


No argument there - that's why I'm upgrading. The PW was/is a great sub for h/t where explosions and ground breaking things happen, but it is on the boomy side. Though I have a feeling a lot of that is my room, but like I mentioned, I'll find out a lot more .... I hope by the end of this week ;)

Well - I have one coming this week (I hope). If you want - I can let you know how it compares. Though as I mentioned, I only have the one PW to compare the PB too, not two like you do. And my room is awful right now for sound (no bass traps or anything like that) but I should still get a good sense of how it compares.

I'll keep you posted!

Sounds good. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts. I know that it will play lower with more authority but there is alot of lfe that is in the 25-40 hz area. I am hoping that the Ultra will really be an improvement in that area. Plus, I might incorporate a sub in the 2 channel part of my system.
Although I haven't heard an Ultra first hand I must agree with you and John that the 2200 can be a little boomy. If I do go with an Ultra sub, it'll be a short drive, so I can save on shipping.:)

Sounds good. It'll be interesting to hear your thoughts. I know that it will play lower with more authority but there is alot of lfe that is in the 25-40 hz area. I am hoping that the Ultra will really be an improvement in that area. Plus, I might incorporate a sub in the 2 channel part of my system.
Although I haven't heard an Ultra first hand I must agree with you and John that the 2200 can be a little boomy. If I do go with an Ultra sub, it'll be a short drive, so I can save on shipping.:)

Hi Rinkle - too early to give you a top notch Craigsub review yet. But ah, I dunno if improvement would be the word I'd describe for the 25 - 40 hz range over the PW. However, please note I still have to dial in the SVS - I haven't done it yet. Ummmmm, that doesn't read right - what I mean to say is, if you were blind, and suddenly you could see, would you call that an improvement? If you would, then yeah, the SVS is an improvement. But, FWIW, the PW is not even close to being in the same class as the SVS. I've snapped a couple of pics that I've attached so you can see the size difference (not sure if that will matter to you or not). I'll pm you too in case you're not subscribed to the thread.

Not sure how to post the pics on the thread but I'll figure it out one day :)

WOW, that thing is huge. And I like that. I also like the front port vs. rear port. I would imagine once dialed in, you'll like it even more. Is there a grill? Oh, and the piano black finish is beautiful. It would be a nice match with my Revels. Thanks for posting pics.:D

WOW, that thing is huge. And I like that. I also like the front port vs. rear port. I would imagine once dialed in, you'll like it even more. Is there a grill? Oh, and the piano black finish is beautiful. It would be a nice match with my Revels. Thanks for posting pics.:D

Yep - there's a grill. I just have the cloth one right now - the metal one is supposed to ship at the end of January or something like that.

Yeah - that finish is great - I'm glad I went with that one. I have a lot of tweaking to do with this thing, but it's pretty good right out of the box. I'm hoping to get to it Sunday (tomorrow is a shopping day and we're getting together with some friends tomorrow night).

I'll keep you posted - once I have it dialled I'll do some side by side comparisons and do my best to describe the difference to you.

Thanks for the info. I have a PW too and wanted to know what differences this other's sub's bring to the table. In size alone there's a big advantage for the svs but do you really feel a big improvement in sound that would justify forking $$ and cope with the size issue and mobility placement. Let me know. Thanks..

T-rush

Thanks for the info. I have a PW too and wanted to know what differences this other's sub's bring to the table. In size alone there's a big advantage for the svs but do you really feel a big improvement in sound that would justify forking $$ and cope with the size issue and mobility placement. Let me know. Thanks..

T-rush

Hi there T-rush.

I was listening to my favourite Christmas DVD-A yesterday - "Surrounded by Christmas" from AIX records. There is one track on it - "Oh come all ye faithful" that has some fantastic bass in it. On the PW - the bass just fills the whole room - both from the guitar and the bass drum kick. I thought it sounded pretty good.

It was a completely different experience with the Ultra. I listened to that tune three times in a row. You would have laughed your head off at me if you saw me there. I was just sitting there, mouth hanging open, not believing what I was hearing.

First off - the bass from the PB does not overwhelm the rest of my system (like the PW did), it complements it. It hits harder, there is no overhang in comparison with the PW - and I was hearing things on the bass guitar that I didn't know was there. I'm not a player, just a listener, but best way to describe it is on the PW when the bass drum is kicked the overhang occurs, there is some subtle bass going on that I never really heard right after that - ever. Had no idea it was there - with the PB - heard it loud and clear. I've listened to this disc quite a bit - and am quite familiar with it, but it was like listening to it for the first time.

For H/T - the PW does Ok. Again, it's very loud and pressurized my room easily enough, but it's not articulate. It rumbles and will at times overwhelm the rest of my speakers. I'm able to crank the volume much louder now on my system - with no overhang the PB does not overwhelm the rest of my system, but for explosions and what not - it does take over and it feels like your in the middle of it.

But it's a different type of bass. Believe it or not I'm still getting used to it. The PW is so boomy compared to the PB. My room is not treated, and is not the greatest environment for a sub - so I do take that into consideration. I'm sure the PW sounds much better in a room with bass traps - but I know the PB would too.

Oh, I still haven't really calibrated it yet. I've done a bit of work with the Phase and gain of course to match to my system, but nothing with the PEQ yet. I'm running it in 15hz mode right now. The fun part will be trying it sealed for music and 20hz mode and even 10 hz mode for movies - though 15hz seems to be the concensus around here for most people - giving you the most extension (no much goes below 15 hz in sound tracks or music) withough sacrificing a too much output.

Hope that helps a little. I'm really really trying to not sound like another one of those SVS fanboys. I don't like that. So I want to add that eD and Epik are two new kids (for h/t anyway) on the block whose subs are getting rave reviews. I haven't heard them personally but at their price points they are worth checking out as well. Not to mention the ACI Maestro II which I've read a lot about and is also considered a great sub.

A lot of choices - personally though I'm very very pleased with the PB13 and do not have any buyers remorse. IMO it's the best $1700 I've ever spent on H/T and it is far more than twice the sub IMO of the PW - and I paid nearly a $1000 for that one (including tax) so I'm a bit pissed at that.

Kpt-Krunch

Thanks for the info. I do feel my PW to be a bit on the boomy side but I havent had anything to compare to only to the servo 15 on the showroom. The others subs are mostly retail stores comparo none of them svs, hsu, epik pedigree so thats why I wanted to know your impressions. I feel the PW is good for HT but for music I dont think is that controlled and I want a sub that hits me in the chest and don't have overhang. I love how my car sub sounds I feel the kick with no boomy sound and everytime I get to my HT I get a bit disappointed as the kick is no there or something is missing. We'll I'l see what I can do. Keep updating the info ok.!

There seems to be more and more of the internet direct sub offerings to choose from. And with the finish of the Ultra-13, it makes it a more appealing choice (and of course performance). I knew that it would certainly best the 2200. I just wasn't sure about 2) 2200's. And a big deciding factor would be a single placement vs. co-locating 2 subs, which is a pain. Thanks Kpt for sharing your thoughts.