Ok Ive been following a lot of different threads and well I know that some antennas work for some people yet fail for others.

What I am looking for is TWO antennas that will allow me & my parents to get OTA HD channels and still allow me to use my existing cable. They too want HD channels and only have basic cable.

What I'm needing clarified is I have found one antenna that had a switch on it and I'm sorta confused. I think this specific antenna made you switch between antenna and cable! Who would want to do that?

Do all antennas do that or are there ones that passthough the cable and receive HD/Digital signals?

Here is the distance for one antenna. Mind you this is closer to the towers but there is a lot of trees and hills.

DTV Antenna
Type Call Sign Channel Network City State Live
Date Compass
Orientation Miles
From Frequency
Assignment
* yellow - uhf KDTN-DT 2.1 DAY DENTON TX 250° 11.4 43
* yellow - uhf KFWD-DT 52.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 266° 11.6 51
* yellow - uhf KDAF-DT 33.1 CW DALLAS TX 250° 11.4 32
* yellow - uhf KDFW-DT 4.1 FOX DALLAS TX 265° 12.1 35
* yellow - uhf KSTR-DT 49.1 UNI IRVING TX 250° 11.4 48
* yellow - uhf KTXA-DT 21.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 250° 11.4 18
* yellow - uhf KERA-DT 13.1 PBS DALLAS TX 262° 10.7 14
* yellow - uhf KPXD-DT 68.1 ION ARLINGTON TX 267° 11.8 42
* yellow - uhf KUVN-DT 23.1 UNI GARLAND TX 266° 11.6 24
* yellow - uhf KTVT-DT 11.1 CBS FORT WORTH TX 262° 10.7 19
* yellow - vhf WFAA-DT 8.1 ABC DALLAS TX 265° 12.1 9
* yellow - uhf KXAS-DT 5.1 NBC FORT WORTH TX 265° 11.6 41
* yellow - uhf KXTX-DT 40.1 TEL DALLAS TX 265° 11.6 40
* red - uhf KDTX-DT 58.1 TBN DALLAS TX 266° 11.6 45
* red - uhf KDFI-DT 27.1 MNT DALLAS TX 250° 11.4 36
* violet - uhf KMPX-DT 30.1 DAY DECATUR TX 331° 21.6 30
Note:

Second antenna would be

* yellow - uhf KDTN-DT 2.1 DAY DENTON TX 180° 25.1 43
* yellow - uhf KDAF-DT 33.1 CW DALLAS TX 180° 25.1 32
* yellow - uhf KDFW-DT 4.1 FOX DALLAS TX 183° 22.4 35
* yellow - uhf KXAS-DT 5.1 NBC FORT WORTH TX 182° 22.2 41
* yellow - uhf KXTX-DT 40.1 TEL DALLAS TX 182° 22.2 40
* yellow - uhf KTVT-DT 11.1 CBS FORT WORTH TX 180° 22.6 19
* yellow - uhf KPXD-DT 68.1 ION ARLINGTON TX 183° 21.9 42
* yellow - uhf KMPX-DT 30.1 DAY DECATUR TX 178° 2.4 30
* yellow - uhf KERA-DT 13.1 PBS DALLAS TX 180° 22.6 14
* green - uhf KUVN-DT 23.1 UNI GARLAND TX 182° 22.0 24
* green - uhf KTXA-DT 21.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 180° 25.1 18
* green - uhf KSTR-DT 49.1 UNI IRVING TX 180° 25.1 48
* green - vhf WFAA-DT 8.1 ABC DALLAS TX 183° 22.4 9
* green - uhf KFWD-DT 52.1 IND FORT WORTH TX 182° 22.0 51
* red - uhf KDFI-DT 27.1 MNT DALLAS TX 180° 25.1 36
* red - uhf KDTX-DT 58.1 TBN DALLAS TX 182° 22.0 45

You have one digital station, WFAA-DT ABC 8 on VHF 9. After the analog shutdown in February, 2009, WFAA-DT will move it's digital channel to VHF 8, KTVT-DT CBS 11 moves from UHF to upper VHF 11, KFWD-DT 52 moves to VHF 9. So you will need to select antennas that can pick up upper VHF and UHF.

For the closer house at 12 miles, I would start with an unamplified indoor antenna with rabbit ears for VHF. Either a basic UHF loop and rabbit ear table top antenna or a Silver Sensor for UHF and rabbit ear combo.

However 22 to 25 miles is pretty far for an indoor antenna, although the flat country may help. Does that house already have an antenna? At that range, I would suggest you look at putting an antenna in the attic or outside. The CM 4228 is one option. The CM 4221 would work fine for UHF, although it would be iffy for the stations on VHF 7 to 9. OTOH, it might work fine for upper VHF 8 at ~25 miles.

What I am looking for is TWO antennas that will allow me & my parents to get OTA HD channels and still allow me to use my existing cable. They too want HD channels and only have basic cable.

Do your TVs have QAM (digital cable) tuners? If so, are you aware that most cable companies provide the local HD stations in unencrypted form that can be picked up by a QAM tuner, even if you subscribe to a basic analog cable package? If you can get enough channels that way, you don't need an antenna!

If you have QAM tuners, you should check the Dallas thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=529070) in the Local HDTV Info and Reception forum here, to find out which channels you can get that way.

Awesome some responses!

Ok Afiggatt thanks for the update on the current status of HD in the area.

I actually tried my GF cheap antenna a week ago and got most of the HD signals from the major networks. But she wouldn't let me keep the antenna because she does not have cable.
My apartment complex which is 23 miles away actually uses a carrier called Grande Communications and provides the complex with Satellite as the only service * under contract or something or so they say. They provide the picture via coaxial and use one large Satellite for the entire complex. The Sat service is dish network. I talked to Grande about getting digital + HD but they wanted to double what i am currently paying for just HD channels. I would be required to get the digital service + a phone line *which i wouldn't need + HD package. I do not care to pay double just for what i can get for free OTA. I'm just wanting to use my existing cable and use the OTA HD channels.

Jtbell
My dad just got the Elite PRO-110FD 50" Plasma TV after seeing my Panasonic 50pz77u and needing to have something better.

I would assume both TV's have QAM tuners but neither of us are subscribers to DIGITAL CABLE...but if what you say is true he should be able to get HD via the expanded basic cable package from Time Warner.


Last part would be.. what about the pass through? I saw the silver sensor this afternoon yet it doesn't allow cable to pass through the antenna. What I'm looking for is advice of how to use the antenna and cable TV without having to use a switch on the antenna. Keep in mind i do not have a receiver. Would something like Satellite 2-Way Splitter work?

Last part would be.. what about the pass through? I saw the silver sensor this afternoon yet it doesn't allow cable to pass through the antenna. What I'm looking for is advice of how to use the antenna and cable TV without having to use a switch on the antenna. Keep in mind i do not have a receiver. Would something like Satellite 2-Way Splitter work?
You do not pass a cable signal through an antenna. The antenna and the cable line should have separate lines running to the TV. The issue is whether the TV has 2 RF inputs: one for cable and one for the antenna. Most do not, they have only 1 shared RF input. Then you have to find out whether the TV can store the channel line-up for cable and TV at the same time. If not, then you will have to do a full scan each time you change between broadcast and cable. Which is very cumbersome. The digital tuner software in many TVs was designed to be used only for cable or for broadcast, not both at the same time. They probably figure that 90% of the people with digital cable will get a cable STB/DVR or a DVR with cable cards. Clear QAM is more of a throw-in.

The Pioneer Elite 50" has cable card capability, IIRC. Your Dad could lease a cable card from TWC and subscribe to the basic digital tier without a large increase in the monthly rate. Using a Pioneer 50" Elite TV for analog cable is like driving a Porsche on dirt roads. They really should look at getting the basic digital channels as that should get them a bunch of HD channels such as Discovery, National Geographic, ESPN.

In your case, you have one of those classic locked in apartment complex common service providers arrangements which often provide poor and expensive choices. The FCC recently took action to restrict these MDU (Multiple Dwelling Unit) agreements as they trap renters and condo owners into a single service provider. Who then start to jack up the rates once they got the deal locked in.

afiggatt thanks again for the insight.

I know my dad is a silly person. My theory is once he SEE's what HD looks like from OTA/QAM he will upgrade in a few months especially since Time Warner Cable is offering the triple effect offer of Digital/Internet/Phone for a reasonable price. He takes baby steps!

As for me i would love to go with another provider but am stuck for the time being. I would love to know more on the FCC status on the MDU and what the customer can do to get new service.

I really am upset at the fact that i can not use something like a CHANNEL PLUS 2532 2-Way Splitter/Combiner. From what i read it should do exactly what i am wanting it to do. Is it the fact that it CAN work and that i would basically be sharing the cable?

"I really am upset at the fact that i can not use something like a CHANNEL PLUS 2532 2-Way Splitter/Combiner. From what i read it should do exactly what i am wanting it to do. Is it the fact that it CAN work and that i would basically be sharing the cable?"

You can't combine the two because the OTA and analog cable frequencies are the same and will step on each other.

As mentioned unless your TV has two RF inputs for OTA and cable, you'll need an A/B switch to go between your sources and possibly need to do a channel scan each time also.

diplexers would that not work? I ask because wikipedia makes it sound plausible However, just because im thinking outside the box... isn't my connection technically Satellite and therefore it would work?

Being my apartment could possibly be on a different frequency then standard cable companies and that it could work?

Or am i wrong to think that?

I would assume both TV's have QAM tuners but neither of us are subscribers to DIGITAL CABLE...but if what you say is true he should be able to get HD via the expanded basic cable package from Time Warner.

It sounds crazy and contradictory, but yes it's true: you usually do not need to subscribe to digital cable in order to get the local HD stations, or at least some of them. Even the "limited" or "lifeline" analog cable service that costs $15 or so per month should include them. But cable companies don't volunteer this information because they'd rather have you pay for the upgrade to digital service.

There's no guarantee that this will work for you. Some cable companies encrypt the local stations just like they do other digital cable channels (CNN, ESPN, etc.) so that you have to rent a set-top box or a CableCard (if your TV uses CableCards). Some companies don't provide all the local HD stations to begin with because they haven't worked out agreements with the stations for carriage. Here, for example, Charter doesn't carry the local CW and MyNetwork stations in HD; and until about a year ago they didn't carry ABC in HD either, which caused a lot of moaning when ABC still had the Super Bowl contract.

The situation varies from place to place, which is why I suggested you investigate in a Dallas-oriented forum, and find out what's actually available to you.

diplexers would that not work? I ask because wikipedia makes it sound plausible However, just because im thinking outside the box... isn't my connection technically Satellite and therefore it would work?

Being my apartment could possibly be on a different frequency then standard cable companies and that it could work?

Or am i wrong to think that?

Sorry, I missed you are on DN, all the talk of running a cable though your antenna led me to believe you were on a cable system. Do you currently use an STB to receive DN or does your feed from the wall go directly into your TV?

The feed is direct from the wall. So no set top box.

Basically they have a few satellites on the roof of the apartment and the signal is split over and over to all the residences.

Check here for what the splitters look like! http://dltv.wordpress.com/cable-tv-stuff/
I took those pics a while back. Needless to say I didn't take off the end caps.

Anyone know if a diplexer would work considering the frequencies should be different?

If you aren't using an STB, the system in your complex is converting your DN channels to regular analog UHF and/or VHF channels that your TV's tuner can receive, you can't combine that feed with your OTA antenna or they will step on each other. In order to use diplexors, your DN feed would need to be native and feeding an STB in your apartment.

The feed is direct from the wall. So no set top box.

Basically they have a few satellites on the roof of the apartment and the signal is split over and over to all the residences.
If you are directly connecting the cable from the wall, then you have a hybrid system where they have shifted & converted the digital satellite channels to analog cable frequency channels, so people can use their analog cable ready TVs. This means they probably don't provide the full channel line-up that Dish offers. Certainly not without a digital STB.

In a normal DirecTV or Dish home setup, you would have a cable run from the dish to a satellite box acting as the tuner at each TV. In that case, diplexers can sometimes be used to pass the VHF-UHF OTA broadcast frequencies through the same cable line. In your case, that won't work. Analog & digital cable TV uses the same frequencies as broadcast TV; you cannot share them on the same cable line.

As for the FCC ruling on MDU agreements, this will likely be years playing itself out in the courts and with the service providers fighting every step of the way on existing contracts.

What you should do in your situation is get an antenna to get the HD broadcast locals and run that into the TV. Then bite the bullet and get a digital STB (or DVR if they offer one at a reasonable price) from the service provider. The question you have to decide is whether they offer enough (or even any HD channels at all) to make it worthwhile to step up to HD STB & service. The problem is that many of these small service providers lag years behind the technology curve and many may not even offer HD yet. Another expensive option is to put up your own satellite dish on the balcony if that is feasible.

Ive seen other people have Sats on the balcony but i just thought it would be a lot easier than this.

Under your current hybrid sat system, are the channels on OTA or cable channel-frequencies? When you auto scan for channels is it air or cable?

Another possibility would be to use a VCR or other cheap analog tuner then modulate the sat signal to a channel and insert it back into the OTA cable. You would end up with 2 remotes but wouldn't have to use a switch.