The Firedog guys came to my house and cut the coaxial cable too short so
it won't reach my High Def DVR. My question is, if I add a few feet by connecting the two pieces of coaxial together, will it result in signal loss?
Will the loss be significant? If so I guess I can call them back and insist that they run a new line.

Thanks,
Howie

Unless your signal is borderline, adding some cable and attaching the two with a barrel connector will cause a very slight loss and signal though shouldn't impact your PQ any. Only way to answer the question is try it.

Thanks but I need to know before it's tried since I gotta get the Firedog guys out here to fix it. I'm only adding a few feet.

You WILL have some signal loss - that is a given. Will that little bit of loss affect now - maybe, maybe not. The only way for most consumers to know is to hook it up. The little losses doing as described above will probably not be a significant factor.

Thanks but I need to know before it's tried since I gotta get the Firedog guys out here to fix it. I'm only adding a few feet.

Ideally, every element in the coax feed from the dish to your receiver should be HD compatible. RG6 or better coax, 3Ghz F81 barrel connectors, ground blocks, etc. There's an example here of a 3 GHz barrel http://www.techtoolsupply.com/index.asp?PageAction=VIEWPROD&ProdID=860 The quickest way to tell is that the ones you want have colored plastic insulation. AVOID the old ones with white plastic insulation regardless if they are "gold plated" or not.

Dana

Found this thread when doing a search for f81 connectors.

I'm installing what I hope to be high grade HD antenna reception connections. I would like to know:

1) Are satellite grade 3 GHz f81 connectors a good idea? Or more than necessary for antenna apps?

2) I have a Philips grounding block already in my possession which is rated to 2300 MHz. Is that good enough?

Found this thread when doing a search for f81 connectors.

I'm installing what I hope to be high grade HD antenna reception connections. I would like to know:

1) Are satellite grade 3 GHz f81 connectors a good idea? Or more than necessary for antenna apps?

2) I have a Philips grounding block already in my possession which is rated to 2300 MHz. Is that good enough?

My sense is that you don't need a 3 gig rated wire path for an antenna although the better the cable and connectors are, the better the signal transmission. Try what you have and see if it works. With digital TV, you will either get a signal or not.

Be careful how you connect your ground block to the earth. You do not want a ground rod separate from that used for your main electrical entrance unless the two ground rods are "bonded" directly to each other meaning that the two ground rods are connected with 6 AWG (very thick stranded copper) bare wire outside the house.

When in doubt, consult a licensed electrician.

Good luck.

Dana

My sense is that you don't need a 3 gig rated wire path for an antenna although the better the cable and connectors are, the better the signal transmission. Try what you have and see if it works. With digital TV, you will either get a signal or not.

Be careful how you connect your ground block to the earth. You do not want a ground rod separate from that used for your main electrical entrance unless the two ground rods are "bonded" directly to each other meaning that the two ground rods are connected with 6 AWG (very thick stranded copper) bare wire outside the house.

When in doubt, consult a licensed electrician.

Good luck.

Dana
It isn't just the bandwidth that comes into play with those 3GHz groundblocks/F81s. The return loss is more than double that of standard groundblocks/F81s (good thing).

Be careful how you connect your ground block to the earth. You do not want a ground rod separate from that used for your main electrical entrance unless the two ground rods are "bonded" directly to each other meaning that the two ground rods are connected with 6 AWG (very thick stranded copper) bare wire outside the house.

Thanks (and egnisn) on the f81 info. I'll try what I've got first. As for the grounding block... the above info really surprises me. I was planning to do both, connect at the house ground which is about a 45 degree 45' run down from the antenna, and another grounding run straight down from the antenna to the ground with a separate rod there. I figured it can't hurt to have both. You're saying it can hurt, right? Is there a good article you can reference which explains why this is a bad idea? Or maybe you or someone else can explain briefly?
Thanks very much.

Thanks (and egnisn) on the f81 info. I'll try what I've got first. As for the grounding block... the above info really surprises me. I was planning to do both, connect at the house ground which is about a 45 degree 45' run down from the antenna, and another grounding run straight down from the antenna to the ground with a separate rod there. I figured it can't hurt to have both. You're saying it can hurt, right? Is there a good article you can reference which explains why this is a bad idea? Or maybe you or someone else can explain briefly?
Thanks very much.

I am not a licensed electrician so take my comments accordingly. But, as i understand it, the problem with two or more separate grounding points is the issue of "ground potential." That is, the relative conductivity of the earth at various points. If you have a ground rod at Point A and another at Point B, the conductivity may differ one to the other depending on how much water is in the earth at the two points at a given time, the nature of the soil, etc. If you get a lightning strike, the electrical energy will travel to the earth following the path of least resistance. And if the only thing connecting Point A with Point B are the wires going in the house to/through your equipment, the electrical energy will follow that path in seeking the path of least resistance.

So, the best advice I have found is to use only one grounding point, the one at your electrical service entrance, and connect everything up to it. The issue may get complicated by questions of wire gauge and distance which is where a licensed electrician comes in. If you need two grounding points, they should be connected to each other by a large (small AWG number) wire outside the house.

One reference I have found is here http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=68388 and in turn he provides others.

Dana

I am not a licensed electrician so take my comments accordingly. But, as i understand it, the problem with two or more separate grounding points is the issue of "ground potential." That is, the relative conductivity of the earth at various points. If you have a ground rod at Point A and another at Point B, the conductivity may differ one to the other depending on how much water is in the earth at the two points at a given time, the nature of the soil, etc. If you get a lightning strike, the electrical energy will travel to the earth following the path of least resistance. And if the only thing connecting Point A with Point B are the wires going in the house to/through your equipment, the electrical energy will follow that path in seeking the path of least resistance.

So, the best advice I have found is to use only one grounding point, the one at your electrical service entrance, and connect everything up to it. The issue may get complicated by questions of wire gauge and distance which is where a licensed electrician comes in. If you need two grounding points, they should be connected to each other by a large (small AWG number) wire outside the house.

One reference I have found is here http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=68388 and in turn he provides others.

Dana
What he said! Everything MUST be bonded to the building's grounding system. If you want to have separate ground rods, that's fine. If you do so, they must be bonded to the building's grounding system via a #6 wire.

As for the grounding block... the above info really surprises me. I was planning to do both, connect at the house ground which is about a 45 degree 45' run down from the antenna, and another grounding run straight down from the antenna to the ground with a separate rod there. I figured it can't hurt to have both. You're saying it can hurt, right? Is there a good article you can reference which explains why this is a bad idea? Or maybe you or someone else can explain briefly?
Thanks very much.

Connecting a separate ground rod as close to your antenna as you can is only a good idea. A nearby lightning strike will induce current into your antenna which you want to go directly into the earth and not have to go into your house to find a grounding point.

You also want that antenna ground rod connected to your house grounding point using the 6 AWG wire. If your house is grounded with a ground rod that is directly below your antenna then you only have to have one grounding point, otherwise you need two and they need to be connected.

I am not a licensed electrician so take my comments accordingly. But, as i understand it, the problem with two or more separate grounding points is the issue of "ground potential." That is, the relative conductivity of the earth at various points. If you have a ground rod at Point A and another at Point B, the conductivity may differ one to the other depending on how much water is in the earth at the two points at a given time, the nature of the soil, etc. If you get a lightning strike, the electrical energy will travel to the earth following the path of least resistance. And if the only thing connecting Point A with Point B are the wires going in the house to/through your equipment, the electrical energy will follow that path in seeking the path of least resistance.

So, the best advice I have found is to use only one grounding point, the one at your electrical service entrance, and connect everything up to it. The issue may get complicated by questions of wire gauge and distance which is where a licensed electrician comes in. If you need two grounding points, they should be connected to each other by a large (small AWG number) wire outside the house.

One reference I have found is here http://forums.mikeholt.com/showthread.php?t=68388 and in turn he provides others.

Dana

You correctly point out the safety issue with two grounding points being at different potential because of not being bonded. Though with the current and voltage involved in a direct lightning strike or induced current from a very close lightning strike a few ohms here or there doesn't matter, the current goes where it wants. Lightning bolts often split near the earth surface because there is so much current to handle no one path can handle it, a few ohms difference is probably of little consequence.

There is a performance issue with a difference in ground potential because the ground points aren't bonded. That potential difference causes current to flow in the circuit which is noise.

Ok then, I'm convinced. I will connect the two grounding rods via 6 awg wire. Especially so since I know that there is a difference between the moisture of the ground with the two different grounding points. The spot directly below the antenna (not house ground) is much wetter since our house is on a slope and water drains to that area. That's why I was so keen to get a ground in at that spot anyway, since it was the direct to earth place and the wettest point too. I never would've guessed there was an issue between the earth being wetter at one ground than at the other. Thanks so much for letting me know!

I am a little confused. I am putting up a antenna. MY house ground was ineffective because of replaced water pipes with pvc. I drove a ground rod appox 4 feet from my main electrical service and ran #6 wire from my service panel out to the rod. I then placed another grounding rod aprrox. 2 ft from my antenna to be used for grounding of the antenna. The two rods are 6 feet from each other.
The two rods are not connected or bonded each is a grounding system by itself. Is this incorrect? I plan on connecting my dish ground and phone ground to the main service ground and grounding my coax for my antenna with a grounding block to the grounding system for the antenna.

...

The two rods are not connected or bonded each is a grounding system by itself. Is this incorrect? ...

Really? Think about it for a minute. Won't your antenna be connected to your TV? Isn't the power cord of your TV connected to your main electrical service entrance?

If so, then your TV provides the connection between the two ground points. If lightning strikes, a bazillion volts will pass through your TV in your house as it seeks the path of least resistance to the earth.

To avoid this calamity, you need to connect the two rods directly to each other (bonded) with #6 or larger wire outside the house, a better conductor than the smaller wire going into your house to the TV from your antenna.

Dana

I am a little confused. I am putting up a antenna. MY house ground was ineffective because of replaced water pipes with pvc. I drove a ground rod appox 4 feet from my main electrical service and ran #6 wire from my service panel out to the rod. I then placed another grounding rod aprrox. 2 ft from my antenna to be used for grounding of the antenna. The two rods are 6 feet from each other.
The two rods are not connected or bonded each is a grounding system by itself. Is this incorrect? I plan on connecting my dish ground and phone ground to the main service ground and grounding my coax for my antenna with a grounding block to the grounding system for the antenna.

Each is currently a grounding system by itself.

While the two ground rods are close together they should still be joined by #6 wire to form a single grounding system.

A single system is the code, safest and performs better (keeping down noisy ground loops which make electrical noise that may cause problems in your devices).

That was my understanding from reading different posts. Someone who works with an electrical company and the person at the electrical supply house said it should be two separate systems. That was the confusion. Should I one run #6 bare grounding wire from the service box ground unbroken to the house ground rod and then to the antenna ground? Or does this not matter? The coax ground block for sattelite and antenna can go the house ground rod? Thanks for your help.

That was my understanding from reading different posts. Someone who works with an electrical company and the person at the electrical supply house said it should be two separate systems. That was the confusion. Should I one run #6 bare grounding wire from the service box ground unbroken to the house ground rod and then to the antenna ground? Or does this not matter? The coax ground block for sattelite and antenna can go the house ground rod? Thanks for your help.

It is in your best interest to get a licensed electrician to complete this installation according to the National Eelectrical Code. If you have a lightning strike, fire, etc., and your homeowner insurance company finds out that you did any wiring yourself, it may void your claim. Read your policy. Get a licensed electrician.

Dana

Those barrels might pass 3Ghz, but who cares? Blue normally indicates 2Ghz anyway. You will note they only rate them at -0.5db at 2Ghz - no telling what they are down at 3Ghz.

Sort of like how a Plasma TV will last for 5 years - it will work, but you probably will not like what it looks like.

Regardless, you do not need anything that passes to 3Ghz at this time (or the foreseeable future) anyway.

That was my understanding from reading different posts. Someone who works with an electrical company and the person at the electrical supply house said it should be two separate systems. That was the confusion. Should I one run #6 bare grounding wire from the service box ground unbroken to the house ground rod and then to the antenna ground? Or does this not matter? The coax ground block for sattelite and antenna can go the house ground rod? Thanks for your help.

While a single continuous run would be nice it isn't necessary. Two runs of #6 can be connected to a grounding bus, connected to each other with a split bolt or to a grounding rod (each with its own grounding bar clamp). Just make a clean good connection.

The coax ground block that is outside your house before the coax goes inside should be connected to the outside ground rod, if you get a hit on your antenna or dish you want that to stay outside the house.