I can't believe all of the ranting and raving going on about the newest Sammy. Sure, its a little disappointing that this unit didn't come with the latest audio codecs out of the box. I am sure a firmware update will arrive in January and things will be fine. As far as the picture and the convenience is concerned, wow! The picture with the HQV chip is sharp sharp sharp! I own the bd-10a, and the tosh xa1. Regular dvd's are definately a jump up in terms of PQ. That's not all though. I think the tact sharpness on the bluray side of things blows away the bd-10a. I always thought it might be better (having viewed a friends sammy 1200) and being floored...well, i believe the HQV chip makes a difference for even high def sources. as far as hddvd goes, its probably neck and neck, but i'd still give the nod to the Sammy....I don't use 1.3. i use multichannel out, and frankly, nothing is better than not having to switch sources...relax people, the early adopters need to chill and wait for the firmware update....Than you'll all be scrambling around for this unit...

I can't believe all of the ranting and raving going on about the newest Sammy. Sure, its a little disappointing that this unit didn't come with the latest audio codecs out of the box. I am sure a firmware update will arrive in January and things will be fine. As far as the picture and the convenience is concerned, wow! The picture with the HQV chip is sharp sharp sharp! I own the bd-10a, and the tosh xa1. Regular dvd's are definately a jump up in terms of PQ. That's not all though. I think the tact sharpness on the bluray side of things blows away the bd-10a. I always thought it might be better (having viewed a friends sammy 1200) and being floored...well, i believe the HQV chip makes a difference for even high def sources. as far as hddvd goes, its probably neck and neck, but i'd still give the nod to the Sammy....I don't use 1.3. i use multichannel out, and frankly, nothing is better than not having to switch sources...relax people, the early adopters need to chill and wait for the firmware update....Than you'll all be scrambling around for this unit...Right On!

Gimped right out of the box. Think I will save $800.00 for something that gives me what I want. If firmware updates come(anyone's guess when that will be) and fix the problems, I might consider it.

Why should anyone fork over that kind of cash and have to wait on Samsung?

I was considering ordering one of these. The fact that it does not pass the latest codecs via 1.3 was the deal breaker. I am going to wait to see if it does happen. No one knows for sure at this point. I will just stick with my a1 for now. If it does not update by spring, I will probably go a35 and 1400. I have enogh hdmi inputs and shelf space to handle 2 players. Glad you are happy with yours.

Gimped right out of the box. Think I will save $800.00 for something that gives me what I want. If firmware updates come(anyone's guess when that will be) and fix the problems, I might consider it.

Why should anyone fork over that kind of cash and have to wait on Samsung?

Don't buy it then...Move on, please!

nothing is better than not having to switch sources...
Hmmm... you must not get out much. ;)

But seriously, a universal remote (Pronto/Harmony) makes switching sources a non-issue.

I definitely understand both sides of this argument.

One group of people understandably expects the player to deliver on all of the features that were promised (I think the only big one missing is full TrueHD; DTS-HD MA was NOT supposed to be in at release) while having few if any bugs or oversights (eg. 4x3 stretching, speaker setup, playback issues, etc...).

The other group of people is content to get most of the functionality right away and trust Samsung and its vendors to fix the problems and add the other features in the near future.

A person's A/V setup also dicates in part what they can and can't tolerate in terms of missing features, even if they may only be missing for a month.

Personally, I ordered mine several weeks ago and am looking forward to receiving it tomorrow. I read up before I ordered it and even after reading all of the feedback from owners, it still pretty much meets my expectations. I didn't expect DTS-HD MA right away, I thought it was a coin flip as to whether it did more than 2 channel TrueHD right away, and I knew it was probably going to have < 1 GB local storage out of the box. I also expected the standard HDM playback issues that every other HD player out there has experienced at launch because of how the disc format keeps changing (especially with regards to Blu-Ray and DRM causing issues) and hardware manufacturers have to play catchup with firmware. I'm ok with all that. None of the other small issues like speaker setup or 4x3 stretching are deal-breakers for me, though I could see how they might be for others. I'm still definitely going to put it through its paces in terms of testing it, but I'm not expecting to find any significant issues that I don't already know about.

Maybe in a year or two things will stabilize enough within the formats so you'll be able to buy a new HD player and not expect it to have various issues which need to be fixed with firmware. However, that is not the case yet and I'm not willing to wait that long, since this is my first (and hopefully only, at least for a while) HD player.

Don't buy it then...Move on, please!

ummmmmm....I'm confused???? i thought this thread was for the bashers? Anyway, I am also glad you are happy with your decent player. i have higher standards. Sorry, just mho.

4:3 stretching is a major deal breaker for me aswell...along with no audio bitstreaming.

trust Samsung

The deal breaker for me: I don't.

It doesn't 4:30 stretch

As far as I've read, it does stretch 4:3 SD DVD's to 16:9. There are many workarounds (and probably a firmware fix), but as far as I know it does this.

It doesn't 4:30 stretch...and Samsung has confirmed audio bitstreaming via firmdate update that has been announced way before this player hit the streets. And trust me, your standards aren't higher than mine...:rolleyes:

Now I am questioning if you actually have this player. It does stretch 4:3 material. Its a fact.

Three questions for ya...

1. What is 4:30 stretch...is it kind of like the 7th inning stretch but it happens at 4:30? AM or PM? Please, do tell.

2. What is a firmdate update? You are all over the place.

3. Do you actually own this player? It sounds like you are awfully confused. I'm going to need to see pictures.

If you really do own this player, it seems you are trying really hard to justify your purchase.

You have high standards and you are ok with no advanced audio except LPCM....good grief.

You are "sure a firmware update will arrive in January"? Maybe we should create a thread titled "For all you eternal optimists or gullible people (whichever applies)".

This box was 3 months late and despite that doesn't even have the audio capabilities of a $200 HD-DVD player or $300 BD player. Hell, the analog outs are UTTERLY WORTHLESS. A fixed 100Hz x-over and no level/distance settings? They royally blew this. Any other assessment is blind purchase justification.

I would wait until Samsung actually delivers on the firmware making the advanced codecs work before posting threads like this. Even then, the analog outputs will still be so worthless that it wasn't worth having them in the first place.

Only question I have : are we going to have hardware player fanboys now ?

You are "sure a firmware update will arrive in January"? Maybe we should create a thread titled "For all you eternal optimists or gullible people (whichever applies)".

This box was 3 months late and despite that doesn't even have the audio capabilities of a $200 HD-DVD player or $300 BD player. Hell, the analog outs are UTTERLY WORTHLESS. A fixed 100Hz x-over and no level/distance settings? They royally blew this. Any other assessment is blind purchase justification.

Couldn't have put it better myself.

doesn't even have the audio capabilities of a $200 HD-DVD player or $300 BD player. Hell, the analog outs are UTTERLY WORTHLESS. A fixed 100Hz x-over and no level/distance settings? Even then, the analog outputs will still be so worthless that it wasn't worth having them in the first place.

i would not bash this machine. i would have purchased it and waited for the future firmware updates if it weren't for the above issues.

i'm just disappointed and tired of waiting.

Gimped right out of the box. Think I will save $800.00 for something that gives me what I want. If firmware updates come(anyone's guess when that will be) and fix the problems, I might consider it.

Why should anyone fork over that kind of cash and have to wait on Samsung?

I'm with you on that one. I recently read a post here where someone stated that there is no firmware updates coming in the near future to allow new codecs. He claims this came from a Sammy Rep. When I have a chance I will look for it.

@Mr. Cat:
1. I don't know what LPCM stands for. I must be stupid then.
2. I am not a hardcore A/V geek. I guess I have lower standards than you.
3. I don't give a sh!t about anything analog since I'm using HDMI to connect. That means I made a mistake buying the 5k.

Gosh, I'm glad you pointed out how everyone who bought one is stupid for doing so! I'll be taking mine back right away. I wouldn't want all of you to think that being able to pop in LFoDH on BD and watch in 24fps w/bitstream audio, then just for fun, watch Matt Damon kick some a$$ in Bourne ________ on HD-DVD, ALL ON THE SAME MACHINE!

Thanks for saving me from that Mr. Cat!

BTW, since you're so smart and I'm so dumb, can you tell me what kind of bitstream audio my receiver got from the 5k with this picture? It's some sort of DTS thingy.

Oh, BTW, I think you suck for pooping on our parade. Why can't you just let us be stupid and happy?!?!?

@Mr. Cat:
1. I don't know what LPCM stands for. I must be stupid then.
2. I am not a hardcore A/V geek. I guess I have lower standards than you.
3. I don't give a sh!t about anything analog since I'm using HDMI to connect. That means I made a mistake buying the 5k.

Gosh, I'm glad you pointed out how everyone who bought one is stupid for doing so! I'll be taking mine back right away. I wouldn't want all of you to think that being able to pop in LFoDH on BD and watch in 24fps w/bitstream audio, then just for fun, watch Matt Damon kick some a$$ in Bourne ________ on HD-DVD, ALL ON THE SAME MACHINE!

Thanks for saving me from that Mr. Cat!

BTW, since you're so smart and I'm so dumb, can you tell me what kind of bitstream audio my receiver got from the 5k with this picture? It's some sort of DTS thingy.

Oh, BTW, I think you suck for pooping on our parade. Why can't you just let us be stupid and happy?!?!?

Don't be mad at me because I want the features I want. If you are fine with the 5000 and the "features" it has, then enjoy it. But I see no reason to spend $800.00 on a machine when I can't get what I want out of it.

Bottom line, Samsung dropped the ball on this.

The machine is clearly subpar. I was so looking forward to it, but it seems to have many issues. Hopefully they will be fixed with a firmware upgrade but until then highly not recommended!

@Mr. Cat:
1. I don't know what LPCM stands for. I must be stupid then.
2. I am not a hardcore A/V geek. I guess I have lower standards than you.
3. I don't give a sh!t about anything analog since I'm using HDMI to connect. That means I made a mistake buying the 5k.

BTW, since you're so smart and I'm so dumb, can you tell me what kind of bitstream audio my receiver got from the 5k with this picture? It's some sort of DTS thingy.

Oh, BTW, I think you suck for pooping on our parade. Why can't you just let us be stupid and happy?!?!?

You're not stupid, just ignorant. If you are happy with just straight DD/DTS (which is all you are getting, to answer your question), then fine. The rest of us know there is a lot better and that this player is NOT performing to the level it should be.

When (if) you become more discerning, you will feel like the rest of us. With the player that Samsung delivered, the rest of us would cheerfully just use two players that ACTUALLY WORK PROPERLY.

i'm not an engineer, or an audiophile or a technophile, or any other -phile.

however, i am aware that there are audio tracks on most HD DVD and Blu-Ray discs that are lossless. that means no loss in audio quality from the original master recording.

if these lossless audio tracks are on the discs and available to us, why would i buy any player that cannot play them?

why would anybody?

i don't have the answers, and people are buying these players all day every day. i guess that might just be me being weird.

(ps: i have a pre-HDMI processor that i am extremely happy with, so i need analog 5.1 with the ability to set the speaker distance and bass management in the disc player. no firmware is going to solve any of the sammy's problems for me).

I think everyone should agree to disagree. those who are still interested in the player even with its "faults" should be allowed to enjoy it. For me this player is still going to be good for what I need it to do.

Those who dont want the player for its "faults" should just move on. Whats the point of constantly bashing something you have no more interest in? Its really getting almost as bas as the old format bashing threads were. I mean seriously there is no need to "preach" to others on here. I am quite sure EVERYONE know that there is always something better out there, but to demean and bash someone else for making a purchase that makes them happy is ridiculous.

i'm mainly upset that there is nothing better out there.

all this great content, and zero ways to access it (at least for me at this time).

don't mean to be a downer.

....................................
The picture with the HQV chip is sharp sharp sharp! I own the bd-10a, and the tosh xa1. Regular dvd's are definately a jump up in terms of PQ. That's not all though. I think the tact sharpness on the bluray side of things blows away the bd-10a. I always thought it might be better (having viewed a friends sammy 1200) and being floored...well, i believe the HQV chip makes a difference for even high def sources. as far as hddvd goes, its probably neck and neck, but i'd still give the nod to the Sammy...................

Just curious .... what is your display and what is your viewing distance?

January FW update has now been pushed back to February (as reported by an owner who spoke with a Sammy rep).

...and so it begins

I guess I will officially pass... How hard would it have been to make it like the 1400 with audio? :eek:

I don't blame people for bashing it and I don't blame people for buying it. I own it (for 30 days, at least). The bashers are extremely disappointed. Who can blame them? The early reviews seemed to indicate that it was a great machine which with some tweaks could be extraordinary. Then Samsung took three months to release it and most people figured they were spending that time fixing the machine do that it would come to market full-featured and ready to go. It isn't. The blind date turned out to be a little ugly.

People buy it for reasons of their own. And I can assure you we're not stupid or deluded. Let me explain my reasoning. I've waited two years for this industry to settle down. I followed the threads through all the iterations of the Toshibas, Panasonics, etc. They have all had problems. They've all had complaints. I decided to jump in with the Sammy (coming from a Denon 5900 I bought 4 years ago for $1600) because I don't want to have two players to deal with. I've had my rack full of equipment and I don't like it. I don't want to set up two macros for two players with two different picture settings. HD should be gravy on my very busy life not my reason for being alive. I won’t be using all of the promised features any ways as I have a wife, family and friends that I like to sit and talk to and I have business that take up a lot of time. I just want to watch movies in the best, easiest way possible.

Most stated problems should be easily fixed with firmware just as they have been with every other player that has been released since the first Toshiba. There are no other dual format players out there other than the LG with its $999 price and list of problems.

Oh and if I bought the 2 separates I would want if I was to go that route, then I'd have an expense of about $998 (XA2 & BD 30) plus shipping and/or taxes.

I applaud Samsung and LG for having the moxie to try something none of the other "big boys" have the b***s to try. To me they’re the renegades, the outsiders trying to fill a niche even though there are real challenges in trying to do so.

What sticks in my craw are the people bashing/attacking people almost at the point of their purchase which is a nervous time as it is. The buyers become defensive and less able to remain objective. They feel they have to defend their purchase and the type of careful, dispassionate analysis we’ve seen goes out the window

That's my story and I'm sticking with it.

Oh and if I bought the 2 separates I would want if I was to go that route, then I'd have an expense of about $998 (XA2 & BD 30) plus shipping and/or taxes.

I don't see what your point is. Those two players by themselves have more features than the 5000.

i'm mainly upset that there is nothing better out there.



I think this sentence contains the reasons people are happy to buy this and the reason people are bashing it. For me, I'm happy to get this. It is the best thing out there! Others are unhappy because this POS is the best thing out there.

lol at early adopters

--Happy camper

You should read my whole post and you'll see my point. I'm not driven by features. Hey, I'm curious what would you be doing with your time, what would you be thinking about if you weren't posting about a machine you don't own and have no expereince with?

Greetings

we hope that none of the member bashing that goes on in the format battle threads finds its way here?

this should be a kinder, gentler forum :)

Peace

Thanks

Than you'll all be scrambling around for this unit...

There is a reason why "Samsung" and "High-End A/V" cannot be used in the same sentence with an even number of negatives (my mom is an english teacher, so I grew up having to be quite specific with my grammer). Personally, I am waiting for a hybrid unit from a real CE, not some half-rate company that spends half its time getting sued for patent infrengement (because they can't design good stuff on their own), and the other half cutting corners ("... never mind that some titles won't play or that the audio codecs are crippled out of the box. We will still sell a lot of 'em to those who don't mind waiting for a firmware update...")

It is the best thing out there!

"It's not a choice. It's a lack of options." - Harry Stamper, Armageddon

Now when Denon releases theirs (or Marantz, or Onkyo, or...), the Sammy will become a tiny footnote in AV history... Even then, those that care about high-end performance above the perceived convenience of a low-end dual will go seperates every time.

I agree, that Denon et al will may produce better players someday (or not). I do wish your Mom was a history teacher though....so you could quote people of substance rather than a forgotten character from a second rate, meaningless movie. :)

Those of us who prefer to watch high-end, quality movies prefer better quotes. ;)

Yup, this thread has a dark future. :( Shame on all of us who have chosen the "half-rate CE," instead of waiting for mythical players from the likes of Denon, et al.

Very well put Glashub....

Not to rain on anyones parade, but I decided to go with separates once I read about the 5000 audio issues not passing full TrueHD and others. Glad I did because there was a major retail web site that had a GREAT deal and you could get the Toshiba A35 and 10 FREE HD-DVD movies for just $329 shipped. I was then able to get a good deal on the Blu-Ray player and another 5 FREE movies all for just $775 total. While that does mean I have two players, both of them can play ALL the audio specs NOW, plus I have 15 free movies and saved $25 off the 5000 price.

Sorry, but the 5000 was a horrid deal once the special appeared and even more so now with the audio issues it has out of the box. I'm glad I went that route, but I really do hope things work out in the future for those sticking with the 5000. It would be nice to have a combo player, but I'm guessing the REALLY good ones are at least 1-2 years off at best.

As "circumstance" pointed out, the reason many of us are so vociferous in our complaints about this machine is because of the level of disappointment we have. I have been waiting for this player for over 6 months and now it comes out crippled. I'm very bummed about it. Purchasing half-baked electronics puts out the message that the consumer is OK with this practice. Well, I'm NOT. The result of this is that I will now have to buy a separate BD player to go along with my HD-DVD player, instead of reducing things down to one convenient unit.

As "circumstance" pointed out, the reason many of us are so vociferous in our complaints about this machine is because of the level of disappointment we have. I have been waiting for this player for over 6 months and now it comes out crippled. I'm very bummed about it. Purchasing half-baked electronics puts out the message that the consumer is OK with this practice. Well, I'm NOT. The result of this is that I will now have to buy a separate BD player to go along with my HD-DVD player, instead of reducing things down to one convenient unit.

as opposed to believing that they needed to get this out for the hoilday season so they put it out in a perfectly functional state with only the features that audio/videophiles demand missing until a firmware upgrade can be issued?

based on what's happened across the board with both bd and hd dvd players, i feel confident that upgrades will come and everything will be enabled...full profile 2.0 baby :)

seriously, look at the panny, the pio, the sony, the toshiba, etc. ... all added major features through f/w ... this is the new paradigm, like it or not...being a computer geek for ages, i'm quite comfortable with this paradigm and much prefer it...YMMV

Those of us who prefer to watch high-end, quality movies prefer better quotes.

Touche'....:)

...waiting for mythical players from the likes of Denon

Nothing mythical about the Onkyo 805 and the next gen Panny... A dual from one of these CEMs would be nice, but there are existing seperates that Samsung could only dream of measuring up to...

...until a firmware upgrade can be issued

Yea, all of the existing players (1000, 1200, 1400, 5000) with crippled analog sections are still waiting for decent settings options via a FW upgrade. And then there are several titles (Day After Tommorrow, FF4 2, etc) that would not play on the Samsungs because they did not have their crap together, and needed to issue a FW update to "Fix" what should not have been broken (to wit, all of the other guys had no problems with these titles). Personally, I prefer that my player would play all of the existing titles out there without waiting for Samsung to "fix" it (read: damage control). That's not quality; that's making it up as you go along.

hahahaha, like i stated in another 5000 thread.... everyone is bitching and complaining that the unit has been delayed a few times and may not be available before christmas. now that the unit is released (due to thousands of emails of "customers" who keep saying, "release it, release it"), sammy does just that. now those same people are crying that it should not have been released if its not ready or doesn't have the latest codecs. give me a break. what did you want sammy to do? first major impatience, then crying it doesn't do everything out of the box. i just laugh as this game goes on with every unit that ever comes out from electronic suppliers, and the fact that you can't change people.

Touche'....:)



Nothing mythical about the Onkyo 805 and the next gen Panny... A dual from one of these CEMs would be nice, but there are existing seperates that Samsung could only dream of measuring up to...



Yea, all of the existing players (1000, 1200, 1400, 5000) with crippled analog sections are still waiting for decent settings options via a FW upgrade. And then there are several titles (Day After Tommorrow, FF4 2, etc) that would not play on the Samsungs because they did not have their crap together, and needed to issue a FW update to "Fix" what should not have been broken (to wit, all of the other guys had no problems with these titles). Personally, I prefer that my player would play all of the existing titles out there without waiting for Samsung to "fix" it (read: damage control). That's not quality; that's making it up as you go along.

has panny issued f/w upgrades? did they ship with all their features? how about sony? pioneer?

the sad truth is that all bd players are in some sense crippled right out of the gate...ps3 just made it to profile 1.1 (only took a year) ... another year for 2.0?

are so many people speaking out against dual format players in general?

the samsung being the latest/greatest to be shunned by those who are for some reason against dual format players?

has panny issued f/w upgrades? did they ship with all their features? how about sony? pioneer?

No, of course not (HDM is an evolving technology; I am still trying to wipe the "Guinea Pig" label off my forehead). My point is that all of those you mentioned are lightyears ahead of Samsung; they add features with their FW updates, but Samsung seems to only fix things.

are so many people speaking out against dual format players in general?

Not here. I would love a good dual player; otherwise I need to invest in an analog swticher, among other things to support two players. But, I would rather wait 6mo for a good player, than blow what I have saved on one I will regret purchasing when the really good ones come out. I am in no position to upgrade again in a year (as it is, this player will represent 8-10 mo overtime), but I am perfectly willing to pay the premuim...

...


Not here. I would love a good dual player; otherwise I need to invest in an analog swticher, among other things to support two players. But, I would rather wait 6mo for a good player, than blow what I have saved on one I will regret purchasing when the really good ones come out. I am in no position to upgrade again in a year (as it is, this player will represent 8-10 mo overtime), but I am perfectly willing to pay the premuim...

that makes perfect sense; the general issue is simply, and this isn't the first time this has happened here at AVS (in all areas, not just HDM), the people that have decided to take chance and go ahead with the purchse don't care to have non-owners jump in a thread and just start telling the owners they are crazy for buying, it is trash (or light years behind the competition), etc.

that's just "pissing in someone's corn flakes" :)

@Mr. Cat:
1. I don't know what LPCM stands for. I must be stupid then.
2. I am not a hardcore A/V geek. I guess I have lower standards than you.
3. I don't give a sh!t about anything analog since I'm using HDMI to connect. That means I made a mistake buying the 5k.

Gosh, I'm glad you pointed out how everyone who bought one is stupid for doing so! I'll be taking mine back right away. I wouldn't want all of you to think that being able to pop in LFoDH on BD and watch in 24fps w/bitstream audio, then just for fun, watch Matt Damon kick some a$$ in Bourne ________ on HD-DVD, ALL ON THE SAME MACHINE!

Thanks for saving me from that Mr. Cat!

BTW, since you're so smart and I'm so dumb, can you tell me what kind of bitstream audio my receiver got from the 5k with this picture? It's some sort of DTS thingy.

Oh, BTW, I think you suck for pooping on our parade. Why can't you just let us be stupid and happy?!?!?

Cozog welcome to the club, don't get upset so easily, i remember the days when i started here not knowing what DTS was, and using Technics speakers with lamp wires that i crimped with a kitchen knife and twisted together for added length. I thought people here where plain cruel, RTFM (read manual) came up in replies to my posts and people kept politely and not so politely instructing me to read the FAQs before posting.

Don't give up on AVS, it is amazing how far you can stretch an A/V buck with the valuable knowledge on these groups. And then a little bit of paintball is OK as long as we wear our masks. Accordingly, i will trade my A35/BD30/Oppo980 HBR/DSD/24p combo for the BD5000 when it gets right "firmware" update :)

Al Di Meola is picking his electric "banjo" in 5.1 DSD as I type, last night we watched Ice Age in DTSHD-MA and my 4 year old can't stop talking about going back to "daddy's basement", life is good as it is for now.

hahahaha, like i stated in another 5000 thread.... everyone is bitching and complaining that the unit has been delayed a few times and may not be available before christmas. now that the unit is released (due to thousands of emails of "customers" who keep saying, "release it, release it"), sammy does just that. now those same people are crying that it should not have been released if its not ready or doesn't have the latest codecs. give me a break. what did you want sammy to do? first major impatience, then crying it doesn't do everything out of the box. i just laugh as this game goes on with every unit that ever comes out from electronic suppliers, and the fact that you can't change people.


Source for the count of thousands of emails, please.

that makes perfect sense; the general issue is simply, and this isn't the first time this has happened here at AVS (in all areas, not just HDM), the people that have decided to take chance and go ahead with the purchse don't care to have non-owners jump in a thread and just start telling the owners they are crazy for buying, it is trash (or light years behind the competition), etc.

that's just "pissing in someone's corn flakes"

Point well taken, my friend...:)

Nothing mythical about the Onkyo 805 and the next gen Panny... A dual from one of these CEMs would be nice, but there are existing seperates that Samsung could only dream of measuring up to...
You knew what I meant, mythical dual format players. :) LG and Samsung are the extent of the manufacturers of this type of product now (hardly sounds like a company who doesn't come up with any original designs, IMO).

You should read my whole post and you'll see my point. I'm not driven by features. Hey, I'm curious what would you be doing with your time, what would you be thinking about if you weren't posting about a machine you don't own and have no expereince with?

Hey, your the one with this "great" machine...why are you here defending and justifying your purchase? Shouldn't you be too busy watching movies?

Hey, your the one with this "great" machine...why are you here defending and justifying your purchase? Shouldn't you be too busy watching movies?

Didnt you read the mod's post? What are you even doing here?

Shouldnt he be watching movies??? What kind of question is that? You have both formats, but you find time to post. Because he has a 5000 he should stop posting?


I guess I just don't get your angle here? I have a 5000, do you? I am not sure either one of us has any business in this thread.

I never said it was a "great" machine. Why are you using words I never wrote? Why do you scan text rather than reading it and absorbing it? Nowhere am I defending my purchase. Read my posts.

But let me ask you this because I may be misreading you...are so concerned about the buyers of the 5000 because you have our best interests at heart? Are you trying to protect us from spending our money foolishly and ending up in HD hell? Are you looking out for us?

Let me ask you, Brother, are you trying to save my wayward HD deficient soul? Because, if you are then I thank you and I thank HD/Blu-Ray Jesus.

Otherwise, stay away and go enjoy your self-proclaimed HD Bliss.

I would have loved to get this player but after the many problems I experienced with the Samsung 1400 (before returning it) none of which were fixed by firmware updates I just don't trust Samsung to create a stable player that simply "works" at playing movies.

I ended up with a Toshiba A2 and Panasonic BD30 for a total outlay that is about $150 less than the 5000 would have been... not a big deal really... BUT Both players do their thing properly without waiting for firmware to make them play movies properly... so in the end that was what was most important for me.

Samsung has a great idea but they have trouble with the implementation of it... not worth the hassle to keep waiting/trying firmware updates... IMO

I never said it was a "great" machine. Why are you using words I never wrote? Why do you scan text rather than reading it and absorbing it? Nowhere am I defending my purchase. Read my posts.

But let me ask you this because I may be misreading you...are so concerned about the buyers of the 5000 because you have our best interests at heart? Are you trying to protect us from spending our money foolishly and ending up in HD hell? Are you looking out for us?

Let me ask you, Brother, are you trying to save my wayward HD deficient soul? Because, if you are then I thank you and I thank HD/Blu-Ray Jesus.

Otherwise, stay away and go enjoy your self-proclaimed HD Bliss.

Maybe I am misreading this thread but it calls out all 5000 bashers. Why am I not "allowed" to convey my disdain for this machine but you people can praise the hell out of it?

There are a lot of shortcomings in this player, so many so that I cannot justify spending $800.00 on this when $199.99 HD DVD and 299.99 Blu ray players do much more.

I don't have this player for a good reason and don't need to own it to bash it. We do still live in America.....right?

I ended up with a Toshiba A2 and Panasonic BD30 for a total outlay that is about $150 less than the 5000 would have been... not a big deal really... BUT Both players do their thing properly without waiting for firmware to make them play movies properly... so in the end that was what was most important for me.

AMEN!

We are not bashers, we are folks who are presenting the facts about this player...If it was a great player I would have kept it. However, it's a piece of crap. The best bang for the buck is to go separates...ie HD-A35/BD30...:)

I think it is far too early to make a judgement on this player. If March 2008 comes along and firmware hasn't come to address the audio codecs and whatever else then maybe some heat can be put on Samsung. This sort of player is what I am looking for as I don't want my wife and family not knowing what discs will play in which player. A dualie makes a lot of sense for a lot of people.

I will wait and see how this player is doing come March 2008 before I decide whether to buy one or not. The folks who have bought this machine are early adoptors and early adoptors almost always need to wait for firmware fixes to deal with issues. Toshiba's earlier HD-DVD players needed several firmware updates to iron out their issues and the PS3 has had several firmware updates. The PS3 originally didn't upconvert DVDs; now it does.

The 5000 will evolve with firmware. It is way to early to condemn this player. Give Samsung the chance to support this player. Yes, Samsung was considered a second rate manufacturer at one time. Like Sharp they have gone upmarket with much success. Anyone want to be overly critical of recent Sharp and Samsung TVs? If so then you are missing out on some amazing sets.

Anyone want to be overly critical of recent Sharp and Samsung TVs? If so then you are missing out on some amazing sets.

I don't think you could pay me to buy another Sharp TV. The first Sharp TV I bought, 52D62U had such awful banding I couldn't stand it. I loved the TV, features, and style of it so much I went through four of them. Yes four. Four $3300 TV's. All had banding so bad I just gave up. Sharp has great sets you say...I'll never know because I will never buy thier TV's again.

I don't think you could pay me to buy another Sharp TV. The first Sharp TV I bought, 52D62U had such awful banding I couldn't stand it. I loved the TV, features, and style of it so much I went through four of them. Yes four. Four $3300 TV's. All had banding so bad I just gave up. Sharp has great sets you say...I'll never know because I will never buy thier TV's again.

All I can say is ouch! I don't know why banding can be such an issue with some LCD sets. The recent Sound & Vision review of the LC-52D64U seems to suggest that Sharp has a handle on the issues. Are the Sony, Toshiba, Samsung etc any better at the banding issues?

At any rate I still contend that it is far too early to condemn the 5000 at this point. With all the stupid DRM infesting discs and the complicated tech needed to make a dualie I can see a few bugs when you launch a player such as this. I really hate that HDM is still not "plug & play" for the most part at this stage.

If the Sammie can get the codecs and other issues ironed out then this is the perfect player for me. I want to be purple; but a one player solution works better in my household. I give LG and Samsung credit for making these players. It isn't always easy being first.

We are not bashers, we are folks who are presenting the facts about this player...If it was a great player I would have kept it. However, it's a piece of crap. The best bang for the buck is to go separates...ie HD-A35/BD30...:)


If anything, though, it's great a company is putting the heat on both sides to keep their player prices down by offering a dual-format player that will work its way down in pricing soon.

So my question is how does the PQ on this unit compare to that of the PS3 for both blu ray and upscaling SD dvd's?

I already own a PS3 and a 99 dollar tosh A2 :D

So my question is how does the PQ on this unit compare to that of the PS3 for both blu ray and upscaling SD dvd's?

I already own a PS3 and a 99 dollar tosh A2 :D

There will be very little difference in HD quality between the 5000 and the A2/PS3. The difference will be SD quality since the 5000 has the Reon but I am sure that will only be marginal.

Why everyone clamours over upscaling of SD DVD's is beyond me...theres only so much make up you can put on an ugly girl.

There will be very little difference in HD quality between the 5000 and the A2/PS3. The difference will be SD quality since the 5000 has the Reon but I am sure that will only be marginal.

Why everyone clamours over upscaling of SD DVD's is beyond me...theres only so much make up you can put on an ugly girl.

It makes a big differnece when one has a huge collection. I hooked mine up and can see a big enough diifererence between this player and my older Panny S97.

It makes a big differnece when one has a huge collection. I hooked mine up and can see a big enough diifererence between this player and my older Panny S97.

I also have a big collection of SD but there is not that much of a difference in SD upconversion between the Reon and say, the Anchor Bay Scaler in the A35. I actually prefer the Anchor Bay. Two my eyes the Reon upconversion looks too overblown for lack of a better word. There are others who share the same opinion of that on these forums but it is merely a matter of taste.

The PS3 and A2 will yield favorable results in upscaling. The Reon will be better but it is not something I would give up True HD and DTS HD MA for.

I concur, Zoo, with regards to the quality of the LCDTVs Samsung is unleashing lately. They've had a great year.

I don't think you could pay me to buy another Sharp TV. The first Sharp TV I bought, 52D62U had such awful banding I couldn't stand it. I loved the TV, features, and style of it so much I went through four of them. Yes four. Four $3300 TV's. All had banding so bad I just gave up. Sharp has great sets you say...I'll never know because I will never buy thier TV's again.

Samsung is the same way. I went through three of the 4665s trying to find one that didn't have major issues. I'll take my Sony XBR4 any day of the week over that Samsung junk. Those darn tvs went through 7 firmware updates just during my ownership period. In fact my experience was so horrible with them and their customer service, that I wont be buying anything Samsung. It appears that this new player is going through the same 'we promise to fix it' stage when it shouldn't have been released in the first place.

But seriously, a universal remote (Pronto/Harmony) makes switching sources a non-issue.

Not necessarily.

I have had a Pronto Pro for a couple years (a great remote, BTW) and have gotten quite good at programming it and have all manner of macros so it is true to some extent that this will help.

What a remote cannot help is the number of available inputs on the other parts of your system. A combo player can reduce this by one. In my case, where the audio ins for my whole house audio are already all used, this is important.

BTW, I have had the 5000 for three days, have played 3 HD-DVD and 2 Blu-Ray movies complete and 1 SD DVD as well as sampled others of all DVD types. Everything has worked wonderfully and I can wait for the advanced audio. Indeed, as I am not an audiophile, it would not kill me if I just stayed with normal 5.1 (which works fine).

It appears that this new player is going through the same 'we promise to fix it' stage when it shouldn't have been released in the first place.

The only things that are not fixed, in my ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (sadly, most posters on this subject are a little short in that department), are the advanced audio codecs. If you are an audiophile, this may be important but has been well known since September that this would take a firmware update, so I fail to see why anybody is surprised about that! If you are not a golden ears guy, the player is fully functional, certainly as much or more than any other newly released high end product.

Samsung is the same way. I went through three of the 4665s trying to find one that didn't have major issues. I'll take my Sony XBR4 any day of the week over that Samsung junk.
Seems a bit hyperbolic to me. Sony has put out their fair share of junk, too.

BTW, I have had the 5000 for three days, have played 3 HD-DVD and 2 Blu-Ray movies complete and 1 SD DVD as well as sampled others of all DVD types. Everything has worked wonderfully and I can wait for the advanced audio. Indeed, as I am not an audiophile, it would not kill me if I just stayed with normal 5.1 (which works fine).



The only things that are not fixed, in my ACTUAL EXPERIENCE (sadly, most posters on this subject are a little short in that department), are the advanced audio codecs. If you are an audiophile, this may be important but has been well known since September that this would take a firmware update, so I fail to see why anybody is surprised about that! If you are not a golden ears guy, the player is fully functional, certainly as much or more than any other newly released high end product.

Well said and my experience exactly. I've had zero issues with this player with the exception of the advanced codes, which we all knew about. This player performs exactly as advertised.

I have limited shelf and HDMI space due to the fact that I have a 6 inch shelf for DVD player built into my entertainment area with only one HDMI cable run through the wall to my rack in the basement. That is why I was interested in this player.

Instead of waiting for Audio codec firmware upgrades I have purchased a Oppo automatic HDMI switch, a Toshiba A35 and a Panasonic Bluray 30 and they will all fit in a 6 inch vertical switch for similar $ to the Sam 5000. I would be willing to pay for an all in one solution, but am ready to jump in to 100% functionality now.

Merry Christmas all!!!!!

Scott

4:3 stretching is a major deal breaker for me aswell

I'm amazed anyone actually owns a 4:3 SD DVD.

I'm amazed anyone actually owns a 4:3 SD DVD.

Ummm ... most TV shows on DVD are 4:3.

I'm amazed anyone actually owns a 4:3 SD DVD.

ummmmm....I have Seinfeld, Scrubs, and Simpsons and I prefer not to watch the stretched

I'm amazed anyone actually owns a 4:3 SD DVD.

I own about 400 1:33 (4:3) SD DVD's. 99.9% of all films before 1953 were 1:33. And I would never want to "stretch" any of them to fit a 16X9 screen.

Does the 5000 have 24p output functioning out of the box. If not, ithout HBR and 1080/24 i fail to see what if any benefit this unit provides me over the A35/panny 30 or the XA2/panny 30, other then the fact that it saves space. When you go for the sammy 5000 right now it seems like you are paying a premium for less functionality.

I'm amazed anyone actually owns a 4:3 SD DVD.

What a silly thing to say.

Casablanca,
Citizen Kane,
Maltese Falcon,
The Manchurian Candidate,
Gone With the Wind,
The Wizard of Oz...

There are endless numbers of great movies that are in 4:3 ratio. You wouldnt watch a Pan & Scan version of the Lord of the Rings would you? Why on earth would you want to stretch or crop a classic film?

I think you 5000 owners need to face facts. There are others on this board who will do their best to inform you that your choice was poor and you clearly don't know any better. Why else would someone repeatedly bash those who are happy with the 5000? Does anyone think that after a FW update comes out that fixes most or all the bugs will those who said it was junk and all but called you idiots for not choosing the path they took appologise and say they were wrong? Of course not.

I don't own a 5000. Someday I might. LG's first player got more than this wrong the first time around and I'm sure if Denon (or any other CEM who makes a DF player) will get something wrong. If I had to bet whether or not a FW update will come out for the 5000 I think only a fool would bet that Samsung will not release one. I also think there will be a second gen player out that will be better than this one.

So to all those who would rather have two players I think you have made your points well known. Please save your typing because you're not adding anything to this thread. There are sections on AVS for each one of your players. It's bad enough that the Red and Blu people can't get along but now it seams that a few two player boys don't want to play nice with the single player boys.

4:3 stretching is also a deal breaker - and the only deal breaker for me. I would own one of these now if it were not for this. As far as I am able to tell, this is something that Samsung has never corrected on the 1200 or 1400. (Please correct me if I am wrong.) As far as I know, 4:3 stretching is something that no other BD or HD-DVD player does. I simply do not understand why Samsung doesn't fix this.

From reading the forum, it seems that all of the other flaws in the 5000 exist in many of the other HD players - and the 5000 seems to have fewer than many other players.

Not getting a particular audio codec, I can live with, but watching one of the many great 4:3 films with everyone distorted to short and fat is just not acceptable.

Pip

I am leaning more an more towards the LG unit.

The HQV upconversion is superior to the LG...I guess not important if you're not watching regulard dvd's....when you do though, its worth it.....

The BD-UP5000 is a great machine. I had the 1400 before this and returned it and it had firmware updates that allowed it to play DTSMA-HD. I believe this machine will come with an update. Otherwise it is the best looking machine out there. And I love the fact I can play both formats and not have to worry about movies in either format. It goes great with my sxrd and the picture quality is amazing.

...watching one of the many great 4:3 films with everyone distorted to short and fat is just not acceptable.

Pip

Don't you have a TV that can switch between 16:9 and 4:3? I thought all the widescreen TVs could do that.

....I don't use 1.3. i use multichannel out, and frankly, nothing is better than not having to switch sources...relax people, the early adopters need to chill and wait for the firmware update....Than you'll all be scrambling around for this unit...


MULTICHANNEL OUTPUT and Lip Sync/Bass Management ISSUES:
Have any of the readers of this thread considered the Lip Sync situation (and for that matter how to handle well-Bass managemant) when using the Analog Multichannel HD audio output of these new HD players?

Very few, if any, real world receivers allow Lip Sync correction via controllable audio delay ( up to 7 channels of A-D conversion back into the digital domain followed by a DSP is required to allow audio delay and Bass management of such audio input signals -- ) .

The audio delay problem with this is that most new Front and Rear projectors and LCD sets (Sony 52XBR4--Sony 60XBR2- Sony pearl- JVC RS1) etc. have video processing somewhere in the video path - to provide the type of image improvements made possible by the newer HQV or equivilant DSP chips etc -and the resulting Video delay can be on the order of 2 full Video frames or 64-70 milliseconds (with my Sony 60 inch XBR2- the time delay required on my Yamaha receiver to match the displayed image is 64 mseconds).

Where are you going to get the Audio delay capability to match this and reasonably complete Bass Mangement (HD players have very restricted Bass management set-up capability built-in) when usung Multichannel audio out of any HD DVD or/and Blue Ray player?

I do not think there is is any practical answer to this problem- which leaves out the use of Multichannel solutions for the purchaser or owner of players with the still somewhat missing v1.3 HDMI pass through of Dolby True HD and DTS Master HD bitstreams.

KT

Beery:

When receiving SD resolutions all HD displays can change aspect ratio, but when receiving HD resolutions, many displays are locked into 16:9 mode. Therefore up-converted non-anamorphic SD DVDs are displayed at the wrong shape with no option for correction other than changing the player's output resolution to 480.

To my knowledge, Samsung machines are the only HD players that do not automatically pillar box/window box non-anamorphic SD content. It is obviously difficult to make any HD player that plays every disc glitch free, but as all Toshiba, Sony, LG, and Panasonic HD players get this part right, I don't understand why Samsung keeps getting it wrong.

Pip

I am leaning more an more towards the LG unit.The 2008 International CES (http://www.cesweb.org/default.asp) exhibition begins one week from tomorrow... for anyone who has not yet committed to purchasing an HD DVD player, why not wait at least one more week?