This thread is not about the 5000's audio capabilities, so please don't post about audio.

This thread is intended as a place where people can post what they have seen on a display when the 5000 is the source, and, if they have used other players on this same display, how the picture quality (pq) of these other players compares to that of the 5000.

People who haven't seen a display that is using the 5000 as a source should feel free to ask questions about posters' observations, or make a request for a certain observation.

To me, it is difficult to fully understand and appreciate what others have to say about pq. By that I mean that I want to understand what others report so that there's a pretty good chance that I would have made the same observations had I been in the observer's place.

In order to increase the likelihood of that happening, I need to have this information from the observer:

1. Display device. (Either model number or display type, diagonal size, and native resolution.)

2. Description of 5000's output signal. (Resolution, progressive or interlaced, and frequency.)

3. Viewing distance and ambient light conditions. (Distance from eyes to closest part of screen when making reported observations - ie "I sat about X feet from the screen when I made these observations".)

4. Name of disk and scene on disk. (And whether the disk is sd, HD-DVD or BD.)

Please also feel free to link or copy pq observations from other threads or sources, but only if they contain the information listed above.

Just picked mine up from BB.
Mitshubishi DLP 65-732 connected via HDMI input 2
Older Kenwood receiver not hooked up yet. Tommorrow

So far looked at SD of Polar Express. That is what was last watched in the DVD player. Looks pretty good upconverted.

Popped in Superman Returns (BD) made sure I was at 1080p/24. First thing I notice is it is not filling up the entire frame. Still looks like widescreen viewing but the picture showing is amazing.

Now and this is why I am on the Forum right now my daugter wants to watch High School Musical 2 (BD) and the first thing I notice is it uses the whole screen. And PQ is awesome.

I am not new to HD as the 65-732 is 1 year old (no problems at all) and I have Dish HD. I am however new to BD and HDDVD. This is my first HD player.

Why is Superman Retruns not filling the screen and High School Musical does?

I am more interested in PQ than audio problems.

Thanks in advance.

1. Display device. (Either model number or display type, diagonal size, and native resolution.)
Samsung HL-S6187 1080p DLP (61"), connected directly from 5000 via HDMI


2. Description of 5000's output signal. (Resolution, progressive or interlaced, and frequency.)
1080p ("1080P" lit up on the front panel, so beyond that, I'm not certain)


3. Viewing distance and ambient light conditions. (Distance from eyes to closest part of screen when making reported observations - ie "I sat about X feet from the screen when I made these observations".)
10' and 15', dark room with one ambient light source above and behind the screen


4. Name of disk and scene on disk. (And whether the disk is sd, HD-DVD or BD.)

DVD: Fellowship of the Ring EE
Viewed most of first 5 chapters. Upconvert looked very similar to my Denon 2910, which I've always loved - had a smooth, film-like appearance (some odd edge enhancements on text in the menus though - sound options screen), very little color banding, normal grain, good shadow detail.

HD-DVD: Troy (first issue)
Viewed first 3 chapters. Clean image, indistinguishable (by my eyes) from my Xbox add-on - did not notice the "black dot" noise that some have mentioned until I got a few feet away from the screen during a wide shot of the sand. But even then it was almost undetectable. Note sure if I was seeing the same artifact others are, but it did not affect my viewing at normal viewing distance.

Quoted from my post in the BD-UP5000 owners thread:

I finally got a chance to view the infamous Transformers chapter 3 snow scene, and here are my thoughts when viewing on a 73" Mitsubishi CRT (9" guns) that's been professionally calibrated. I'm using a relatively high grade HDMI cable with a DVI adapter on the TV end.

I definitely can see what people are talking about -- it looks like an unusually high amount of grain in the white snow, and has a "rapidly moving pepper" look to it. I would certainly not call it "unwatchable," however, and I'm not convinced that it isn't just excessive grain in this scene that is not being reduced via noise reduction due to the specific character of the grain.

The specific processing of the 5000 may interact a bit odd with this grain, or it could be a little light with it's Noise Reduction (NR.) As I've said before, this would make sense given the earlier problem with 1000 doing too MUCH NR. Samsung may be a little NR shy at this point. It's also possible, however, that this is close to what it looked like in the theaters. I honestly can't remember at this point, but it's not so bad that this isn't a real possibility. I've certianly scene grain this bad before in theatrical presentations of main-stream films.

Something to note is that this snow shot/s is most likely highly composited, and may in fact be largely CG, so it's possible that they added a bit too much grain when trying to match the film elements. I'm completely open to the idea that there could still be some sort of glitch in the way the 5000 is doing noise reduction, but at this point I have a hard time calling it a "malfunction" without seeing the original film. Even if I saw this scene on another player, it still wouldn't put the "blame" on the 5000 since another player could simply have differentor more aggressive NR algorithms. I currently have to entertain the possibility that the film itself simply has unusually high grain in this scene, which in turn COULD simply mean that the 5000 is reproducing what's on the original source. I just can't say for sure at this point since I don't have a proper point of reference (which is the original film projected in the theater.)

Some people (not eurotrance, but some others) have seemed to imply that they see this effect in any "bright areas" of a scene, but this is definitely NOT my experience. There are plenty of fully blown out areas in other scenes in Transformers-- sunlight coming in windows and reflecting off of various surfaces -- where there is NO unusual grain in these areas. The white areas go full white in these other scenes and do not have the grain that the snow scene has. This seems to clearly indicate that the source material and/or transfer are directly related to this issue. In other words, this player is not just adding noise to bright areas. IF the player has a problem (which is still an "if" in my opinion) it's something to do with the way it handles grain in certain situations.

Those are my impressions of this scene. If you're reading this and wondering about this particular issue, my personal opinion (which I admit is entirely subjective) is that most people would not notice a "problem" in this regard. I honestly think that most people wouldn't notice it at all, and even if they did they would just see this as more grain that usual, but that it wouldn't really bother them. Overall I find the picture quality of this player to be excellent, and I'm rather surprised at how much criticism it's received so far.

Please understand that I do NOT mean to discount anything that eurotrance or some others have said in this regard. I fully respect their opinions. I simply have had a different experience then they did when viewing these scenes.

Larry

Just picked mine up from BB.
Mitshubishi DLP 65-732 connected via HDMI input 2
Older Kenwood receiver not hooked up yet. Tommorrow

(...)

Why is Superman Retruns not filling the screen and High School Musical does?

I am more interested in PQ than audio problems.

Thanks in advance.

That is simply because the aspect ratio of Superman is different. Superman was produced for movie theatres (wider then 16:9 - cinemascope maybe), while High School Musical was for TV right from the beginning (thus feeding modern 16:9 screens). In fact most movies will still not fill your screen (e.g. lord of the rings, once upon a time in the west). To sum it up - there is nothing wrong with your hardware...

That is simply because the aspect ratio of Superman is different. Superman was produced for movie theatres (wider then 16:9 - cinemascope maybe), while High School Musical was for TV right from the beginning (thus feeding modern 16:9 screens). In fact most movies will still not fill your screen (e.g. lord of the rings, once upon a time in the west). To sum it up - there is nothing wrong with your hardware...

If that is the case I am a little dissapointed.

If that is the case I am a little dissapointed.

then get a 2.35:1 aspect TV. (21 by 9 instead of 16 by 9)
oh wait - they don't exist ;)

seriously, don't be disapointed, that is how movies are made.

then get a 2.35:1 aspect TV. (21 by 9 instead of 16 by 9)
oh wait - they don't exist ;)

seriously, don't be disapointed, that is how movies are made.

I just assumed that the movies would fill the monitor as does HD content from Dish. I now understand the difference. Thanks. My assupmtion just got me a little bit in doubt. The PQ is AMAZING. I am excited to see what it does to my SD collection later this weekend.

If that is the case I am a little dissapointed.

You shouldn't be dissapointed that you are seeing the exact same image that you would have seen in a movie theater.

I just assumed that the movies would fill the monitor as does HD content from Dish. I now understand the difference. Thanks. My assupmtion just got me a little bit in doubt. The PQ is AMAZING. I am excited to see what it does to my SD collection later this weekend.

You should have noticed that all HD content on Dish network doesn't fill the screen either...Same with Directv...Some of the movies will show up letterbox (2.35:1).

I just assumed that the movies would fill the monitor as does HD content from Dish.

If it really bothers you your TV might have a zoom function that would zoom in on the image and remove the black bars, just be aware that the resolution will be lower and you'll be chopping off the sides of the movie.

1. Westinghouse LVM-37w1 (1080p) 37" LCD monitor
2. 1080p
3. 6' from screen, dark room (night, no lights on)
4. Numerous discs, the most impressive of which so far is Casino Royale

I don't have a lot to compare this against, since other than my HDTV (1080i on some channels, ex. Discovery), I haven't owned any other HD devices (HD DVD or Blu-ray devices). That said...

Truly amazing. Incredibly sharp image, deep and rich colors. I was amazed how much better the image was than even good quality HDTV like Planet Earth at 1080i.

So far I've watched these movies in their entirety:

Terminator 1 (BD), 2 (BD), 3 (HDDVD)
Serenity (HDDVD)
Casino Royale (BD)

And, sampled these movies:

Pirates of the Caribbean 3 (BD)
The Fifth Element (BD)
LotR 3 (DVD)
Star Wars 3 (DVD)

Upconversion standard DVDs is good, but needless to say I'll be replacing much of my collection over the next few months, there's just no comparison.

OK, back to movies. On deck for today:

Harry Potter 1-5

:)

I just assumed that the movies would fill the monitor as does HD content from Dish. I now understand the difference. Thanks. My assupmtion just got me a little bit in doubt. The PQ is AMAZING. I am excited to see what it does to my SD collection later this weekend.

As others have mentioned the 16x9 TV you have will likely show no top or bottom bars on 1:78 and 1:85 material. On old full frame 1:33 stuff you will have the black bars on the left and right unless you stretch it to fill the screen (I sometimes do this and sometimes I do not).

On a 2:35 wide screen flick there will always be black bars on the top and bottom because this is even more "wide screen" than the 16x9 TV that you have. I noticed this too when I got my Sony Grand Wega a little over a year ago.

If you put in wide screen movies on an old 4:3 TV you will definately notice the difference between the 1:78, 1:85 and 2:35 wide screen images. On my old 27" 4:3 CRT my 2:35 DVDs were tiny images with huge bars on the top and bottom. Now on a 16x9 TV the bars are much more tolerable and the image is a nice size on a 50" screen. I have two zoom modes on my TV which take just a bit off the bars; but don't elimate them completely. You may fine a nice balance between zooming in a bit and not losing that much off the left and right of the screen. This is anathema to many here as you are losing source material because as you zoom in you are losing content on both the left and right of the image.

So, you are still "stuck" with bars on some movies. However, on 1:78 and 1:85movies and shows you probably won't have any (it depends on the amount of overscan you have on your set). I don't get any bars on 1:85 content but I think some others might.

As I said previously in the long thread, the best thing for any consumer would be to just buy a 5000 and then return it if it does not satisfy. But the 5000 is not yet available in Canada, so buying from the States, and possibly returning it to the States, would be a hassle and I'd lose the likely-consderable shipping, brokerage and tax expenses. That is why I started this thread - to attempt to further nail down the 5000's pq.

Here is a chart that I think would be useful. It is taken from here:
http://www.nugateway.com/zerothread?id=2342
http://i2.photobucket.com/albums/y35/Tony1M/resolution_chart.jpg

Quite obviously, the chart makes certain assumptions about human vision, but display size and viewing distance are, imo, the two most important variables in a particular person's ability to discern pq. (You know, "picture quality" may not be the best of terms in this new world of HD. Would "accuracy" be more appropriate?)

Most people realize that getting closer to a display does not necessarily mean a better viewing experience. In the past, doing that almost always meant the opposite. The most important question is: how could moving farther from an image "improve" the viewing experience?

The vast majority of 5000 owners will no doubt be using 37" to 50" displays, and probably sit at least two, and more likely more than three, times the screen's diagonal distance from them - about the same distance that they used to sit from their old CRT televisions.

But to me, this new age of high-definition sources and displays has meant something very special -the opportunity to again have the totally immersive viewing experience of the old big-screen theatres, only this time in our home.

To my wife and I the goal of HT is the immersive experience, and, IMO, although a high resolution image is very enjoyable, it is only half of the recipe to achieve it.

To some it may sound utterly ridiculous to sit relatively close to an image, but many projector owners do - my wife and I included. We normally sit about 8 feet from a 10 foot diagonal screen, or 0.8x screen diagonal. This is more or less the equivalent of sitting about 34" from a 42" display, 40" from a 50" display, or 52" from a 65" display.

In short, I believe that a viewer sitting less than one screen diagonal from the display is going to see many, for lack of a better expression, "features" of an image than a person sitting twice or three times the diagonal away from the screen simply can not, and I think that much of the disagreement about the 5000's "pq" could very well derive from this simple difference in viewing conditions.

The very small percentage of HT enthusiasts who own projectors, and also sit less than 1x of the screen, want to buy a source that will provide their projectors with the most "accurate" signal possible. Simply put, the player should be capable of accurately sending to the projector whatever is on the disk, good or bad.

I don't think anyone expects the 5000 to make a silk purse out of a sow's ear.

If it really bothers you your TV might have a zoom function that would zoom in on the image and remove the black bars, just be aware that the resolution will be lower and you'll be chopping off the sides of the movie.

I would prefer to not zoom. Please don't take this the wrong way. I have watched Spiderman 3 and Superman Returns both BD and love the way my 65" Mitsubishi DLP produces the the end result. I just expected something of my system and was not familiar with HD DVD content until I bought this unit. I am completely satisfied with my purchase. As another post pointed out, yes the black bars are definately smaller than if I was watching SD DVD on a regular DVD player.

BTW I sit betwee 8 and 10 feet away from my display and I do not see anything I have not liked. Come Christmas I should have Transformers and I will check out the problem with the snow. However, I do not expect to see crawling dots or anything but a great picture.

As long as the 5000 continues to give me the picture I have seen so far it is staying in my house. I need a dual player to maximize the space I have and the amount of connections needed. The 5000 fits the bill perfectly so far.

If that is the case I am a little dissapointed.

:eek: