I'm looking to upgrade my Marantz VP4001 to a 1080P projector. Resolution aside, the most important thing for me is black levels. My Marantz has, according to reviews, top of the pile blacks and a 6500:1 CR.

And yet with no active input I can easily see the screen area and make little shadow puppets over what should be full black.

Will this be the case with the RS1 or VW60, the presumed black level champs?

Thanks.

For the RS1 - yes.

You can make hand puppets on the VW60 as well. I eagerly await the day when I can get a projector that does true black (absence of light).

Yeah from the VW60 that I saw, the black level was higher than the RS1. The RS1 is great for a digital projector, but you will still see had puppets especially if you have been in the dark room for short time. The RS2 is a good bit better than the RS1 in this regard, but the puppets are still there.

It is creeping closer to crt-like blacks. I think there is going to need to be a technology breakthrough before we get to the CRT black state.

Hand puppets are no big deal on an RS-1. The blacks are really excellent for what it's worth. That's one perspective IMHO.

agreed! Blacks look black on the RS1 and the RS2 looks even better!

Yeah you can see the hand puppets on the RS1 specifically when it is a full black screen. Now if something lighter comes on the screen (ie the input signal box) then it gets better but you can still see the shadow.

Black level in actual movie/content though looks good especially in night time scenes. I watched Spider-man 3 yesterday and everything looked great.

I often wonder if maybe my RS1s absolute black isn't as low as others or if those who imply a full black screen looks so deep really are judging the black level based on how black is during movie viewing which IMO is more useful.

I often wonder if maybe my RS1s absolute black isn't as low as others or if those who imply a full black screen looks so deep really are judging the black level based on how black is during movie viewing which IMO is more useful.

There are plenty of films that have much of the screen time devoted to dark scenes. On the other hand, there are many films that have almost zero dark scenes. I wonder how much of the "black level satisfaction" factor is related to what type of films people are watching.

There are plenty of films that have much of the screen time devoted to dark scenes. On the other hand, there are many films that have almost zero dark scenes. I wonder how much of the "black level satisfaction" factor is related to what type of films people are watching.

Very true.

I notice that I really favor movies that have, for various reasons, many dark scenes. I like sci-fi and horror, but also lots of the movies I throw on have a lot of dark scenes throughout. So I tend to be critical of black levels so many of my favourite scenes look as rich as possible. (For instance, in the movie Taxi Driver my favourite scenes have always been the night scenes).

I'm a big fan of movies such as Dark City. Hence my question.

:)

Ah Dark City. The bane of digital projectors! :)

If your looking for the best black levels you cant beat the RS1 or RS2.

It doesn't really matter if you have 200,000:1 if you have a bright image you will still be able to have hand puppets. Projection is about light. If you want pure black use the on/off button.

Dark City is at least watchable on my Marantz in High Contrast mode. It never was with any other digital projector. However, I also have a CRT monitor which I can view at the same time and it shows what I am missing.

You'd get more hand puppets at a real movie theater than you will from an RS1 and I assume RS2 (I own an RS1 so I can't comment on the RS2). Assuming a recently built spendy multiplex gives what we should consider a baseline movie experience the RS1 puts it to shame as I assume would most of the popular suggested models in this forum that compete with the JVC's.

When reading through reviews here it's important you keep one thing in mind. Bob is in reality color blind. To get even with the world he pretends to know what good color is and picks on the better projectors out there (cough), to feel like he can still see colors I suppose.

You'd get more hand puppets at a real movie theater than you will from an RS1 and I assume RS2 (I own an RS1 so I can't comment on the RS2). Assuming a recently built spendy multiplex gives what we should consider a baseline movie experience the RS1 puts it to shame as I assume would most of the popular suggested models in this forum that compete with the JVC's.

When reading through reviews here it's important you keep one thing in mind. Bob is in reality color blind. To get even with the world he pretends to know what good color is and picks on the better projectors out there (cough), to feel like he can still see colors I suppose.

Ahhh that is what these people at my local theater are doing when they climb on the stage and start making hand puppets. They are avs members tesing cr's explains alot.

Daniel.

Yes, I was wondering just how one might conclusively state that the local cinema is poorer in this regard than an RS1. In my mind's eye I saw someone racing up to the front during a predominantly dark scene making hand gestures and the audience misinterpreting this as an act paid for by the management to entertain the audience during intermission which had just been reintroduced after 40 years of absence. :)

Wayne

I came from a nice CRT (G70) and watched Transformers on HD-DVD last night. I can easily say the black level is incredible. There are only 2 areas I'm disappointed with. The fade to blacks are of course better on the CRT. The other area that I was suprisingly disappointed was the credits. I expected the background to be nice and black but it was grey. This was surprising since none of the scenes in the actual movie seemed to be suffering. Never did I see any of the veiling/haze in low APL stuff. I would say the low to mid low favored the RS2 since the G70 seemed to wash itself out when a bright oblect appeared on the screen. I'm guessing that is because the ANSI on the RS2 is roughly 3x's the besr CRT. Overall is was a very pleasing picture I just wish I could get to the bottom of why the credits looked like that.

Ah Dark City. The bane of digital projectors! :)

When you compare Dark City (SD) and Underworld (HD) it is obvious that part of the problem is the source itself. Dark City looks washed out while the blacks on Underworld appear much deeper. We need a 1080P version of Dark City!

thr projectorreviews review is up for the RS2 and it compares with the VW60 a fair bit.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-rs2/index.php

thr projectorreviews review is up for the RS2 and it compares with the VW60 a fair bit.

http://www.projectorreviews.com/jvc/dla-rs2/index.php
Really an interesting test. I found the reviewer somewhat biased toward "his" JVC characteristics when explaining his opinions about the well-done screen-shots, but not overly severely.

However, this was the first test for me which contained pictures allowing to judge the real sharpness differences between 1080 machines. Other than the author summed it up in the text, the pictures from the computer monitor from Space Cowboys did show a significant advantage of the Panasonic PT-2000 and even more of the Sharp XV-Z20000, compared to both the RS2 and the VW60. And this had nothing to do with "visible pixel structures", as the author suggested, because it was easily to be recognized on skewed words, where a native pixel structure cannot help.

A really impressive advantage of good non-LCOS machines, which I never had expected to show up that strongly.

Kind of an interesting review for mine, but one which shows once again the inability of screen shots to show anything of real value unless you can have both PJs projecting on the same screen side by side, calibrated well.

I would, however, love to see a finger puppet screenshot test for all the reviews. It should be a fairly objective test if the camera exposure is correctly set and the same for all projectors.

If you see puppets, then the blacks are not black enough.

Pretty simple really.

Steve,

The blacks on the RS2 are the best blacks I've seen outside of CRT. I'm continually amazed by them. If black level is your holy grail, that's your projector.

Richard

There is no question that the RS2 for digitals produces the deepest blacks. This projector produces a slightly better black level than my sharp 20000 run in high contrast mode with no iris. Impressive.;)