My wife and I watched the latest HP last night: TruHD. After It was over I commented that I had trouble understand some of the dialog. My wife said, "I thought it was just me".

I then selected DD+ and replayed some of the trouble spots and the dialog was completely clear. Whats going one here? Now I am glad Transformers just had a great DD+!

Decoding in Onkyo 605 from HD-A35.

I'll take a 1.5mbs 24bit DD+ track any day over a True HD 16 bit track. Not sure what the bit depth is with HP5 but I had no problem hearing the dialog with TrueHD.

But...but...but...THD is LOSSLESS!

I think THD is a bunch of hype. I have several disks with only DD+, and they sound phenomenal. Meanwhile, 2001 is in THD, whoopdeedoo.

Thank god. I thought it was just me that was having issues with TrueHD...

So, the Compressed track on Harry potter is better then the uncompressed track, this sounds backwards. Why would it be that way?

There is no uncompressed track on the HD DVD.

There is no uncompressed track on the HD DVD.

Umm, it is once it's decoded by the player.

So, the Compressed track on Harry potter is better then the uncompressed track, this sounds backwards. Why would it be that way?

They are both compressed. Lossless compression v. lossy compression.

I'm curious what kind of equipment is needed in order to hear the benefits of Lossless vs 1.5 Mbps compressed (DD+). I know some people have sound systems that cost tens of thousands of dollars, but what about those who have receivers that are less than $1K. Will the recently released Onkyo's 605,705,805 be enough to make out the difference?

Is the difference noticeable in all areas, or just those such as explosions, fast motion, etc? I am debating whether i should get a receiver that accepts 2-3 hdmi inputs, or if I should just keep what I have and use that money to get a dual-format player. Right now i have to manually change the hdmi cable from PS3 to HD-A2. If the lossless sound is really going to make a difference, I will go and buy the Onkyo 705 ( or anything that is equivalent)

Did you have HDMI and SPDIF BOTH on PCM in the settings?

Did you have HDMI and SPDIF BOTH on PCM in the settings?

I don't remember at the moment. I am sending Digital Direct to the Onkyo, which is doing the decoding, so it shouldn't make any difference, correct?

I'm curious what kind of equipment is needed in order to hear the benefits of Lossless vs 1.5 Mbps compressed (DD+). I know some people have sound systems that cost tens of thousands of dollars, but what about those who have receivers that are less than $1K. Will the recently released Onkyo's 605,705,805 be enough to make out the difference?

Is the difference noticeable in all areas, or just those such as explosions, fast motion, etc? I am debating whether i should get a receiver that accepts 2-3 hdmi inputs, or if I should just keep what I have and use that money to get a dual-format player. Right now i have to manually change the hdmi cable from PS3 to HD-A2. If the lossless sound is really going to make a difference, I will go and buy the Onkyo 705 ( or anything that is equivalent)
As someone have stated before, it really depend on who is doing the mixing. However, in general, TrueHD or Uncompressed sound does sound clearer and more natural, especially dialog. For example, in Bourne Ultimatum, the TrueHD dialog sound very clear and natural, however, the action sound as boring as it can get. While on the DD+ track, the dialog sound muffle, but the action sound much better. Now, if you ever listen to the Matrix Trilogy in TrueHD, that is one freaking sound experience to behold. Also, the opening of Superman Return in TrueHD is also amazing.

As for Transformer, well, I have listened to many Uncompressed, DD+, DTS, and TrueHD, so, it is pretty easy for me to identify the sound different. I much say, Transformer is an excellent mixed soundtrack. The mixer really know how to utilized the surround sound field very well, probably one of the best. However, if you take away all the surround greatness, and pay attention to the clarity, you can easily tell that they are certain sound that didn't make it through because of compression. And if one listen to uncompressed sound enough, they can sense the missing sound.

Finally, Onkyo 805 is an excellent receiver, just make sure you got some excellent speakers to go with it. That is where u will hear the big different between DD+, TrueHD, Uncompressed and DTS-MASTER. You do need to pay more for better quality. That's just how thing goes. Need I remind you why A2 is only $99 while XA2 still $500? =D Ohh yeah, don't forget to calibrate your system. No matter how much you spend, if you don't calibrated well, than you are just wasting $$. Spend time and get to know your system is very crucial. YMMV. =D

I don't remember at the moment. I am sending Digital Direct to the Onkyo, which is doing the decoding, so it shouldn't make any difference, correct?

Why don't you have it as Multichannel that will sound better

So, the Compressed track on Harry potter is better then the uncompressed track, this sounds backwards. Why would it be that way?

It would be that way if an AVR had FUBAR decoding for THD.

My wife and I watched the latest HP last night: TruHD. After It was over I commented that I had trouble understand some of the dialog. My wife said, "I thought it was just me".

I then selected DD+ and replayed some of the trouble spots and the dialog was completely clear. Whats going one here? Now I am glad Transformers just had a great DD+!

Decoding in Onkyo 605 from HD-A35.

I could be an jerk and ask you to calibrate your receiver/processor, however I know what you said is true. I don't think it's TrueHD. I think it's Warner and their !@#$ing dialnorm settings biting us again.

I'll take a 1.5mbs 24bit DD+ track any day over a True HD 16 bit track. Not sure what the bit depth is with HP5 but I had no problem hearing the dialog with TrueHD.

I agree completely.
I have an A35 bitstreaming to an Onkyo 705, and I can tell you, some DD+ tracks actually hands down blow away some TrueHD tracks that I have heard.

My wife and I watched the latest HP last night: TruHD. After It was over I commented that I had trouble understand some of the dialog. My wife said, "I thought it was just me".

I then selected DD+ and replayed some of the trouble spots and the dialog was completely clear. Whats going one here? Now I am glad Transformers just had a great DD+!

Decoding in Onkyo 605 from HD-A35.

I have all 5 of the Harry Potter movies on HD DVD. I always use the TrueHD track on my A35. I use the analog outs, since I do not have HDMI.

The TrueHD sound track has always been crystal clear for me. That leads me to believe that the problem is equipment related and not a problem with the TrueHD track.

Bill

PS: The Warner DD+ tracks are 640 kbps, not 1.5 Mbps to the best of my knowledge. It's Universal and Paramount that use the higher bit rates for DD+. The higher bit rate DD+ tracks are quite excellent IMO. B

Umm, it is once it's decoded by the player.

That doesn't change the validity of my statement.

I agree completely.
I have an A35 bitstreaming to an Onkyo 705, and I can tell you, some DD+ tracks actually hands down blow away some TrueHD tracks that I have heard.

It's too bad no one wants to put a 1.5mbps DD+ track and a True HD track on the same disc.

TruHD has more dynamic range then Dolby Digital, so the difference in volume between loud action scenes and soft dialogue is greater. This could explain why it is harder to make out dialogue in TruHD.

This may seem obvious but I will say it again as many have said before me,
sound design is very important. To compare two diff titles using DD+ such as Transformers and KKong to titles that have TrueHD and bad sound design is hardly a fair comparison. I didn't and no one else has heard Transformers in TrueHD so how do we know how it would sound? At Toshiba Canada several months ago we had a demo of 300 with DD+ and TrueHD and while the diff didn't blow us away, it was noticeable and worth using if you have that option. On other titles the diff may be greater. If you don't have adequate equipment, the diff may seem even less. My choice is uncompressed if available, otherwise I'll use what they give me:)

What's irritating about these sound formats is that most people just can't hear the difference between DD+ and TrueHD. I think we make too big of a deal about them. Is our hearing even good enough to tell the difference? Is the difference more on paper than in reality? Maybe I can do a sound check with my dog, dogs have great hearing; I'll blindfold him and switch between the two, one woof for DD+, two woofs for TrueHD.

Speaker quality probably plays a part. Maybe those using a cheap HTiB won't hear a difference.

"To compare two diff titles using DD+ such as Transformers and KKong to titles that have TrueHD and bad sound design is hardly a fair comparison."

+1

+2

It's not necessarily a given that everyone will prefer a more faithful reproduction of the decoding master, of course. A more compressed track might fit certain systems/rooms/preferred levels better, be easier to handle.

TruHD has more dynamic range then Dolby Digital, so the difference in volume between loud action scenes and soft dialogue is greater. This could explain why it is harder to make out dialogue in TruHD.

Can you provide a link for this? I have never heard this before. AFAIK TrueHD actually supports more dynamic range control if the mixers so choose, something that cannot be done on DD+ or DD. But before I get flamed, notice I said TrueHD supports it, not that it is used. Dialog normalization is another "feature" that can be programmed into the data stream. Don't think DD+ or DD supports that either.

I have all 5 of the Harry Potter movies on HD DVD. I always use the TrueHD track on my A35. I use the analog outs, since I do not have HDMI.


I do not mean to hijack but I am trying to buy these movies and it seems like Order of the Phoenix is only available as a combo disc, is that correct? I would hate to have 4 on HD-DVD and one on Blu-Ray. I am buying individual discs not the box set for reference.

Get the box set. None of those discs are combos. Or buy the UK version of The order of the Phoenix. It is a 2 disc set with HD extras and no combo disc.

I am not doing the box set because the other 4 are listed in the buy one get one on amazon, too good a deal to pass up.

Thanks!

Can you provide a link for this? I have never heard this before. AFAIK TrueHD actually supports more dynamic range control if the mixers so choose, something that cannot be done on DD+ or DD. But before I get flamed, notice I said TrueHD supports it, not that it is used. Dialog normalization is another "feature" that can be programmed into the data stream. Don't think DD+ or DD supports that either.

Dynamic range is a function of the bit depth, 24 bit v. 16 bit and not a function of the codec. The newer codecs seem to be encoded at a bit lower level to take advantage of the dynamic range available.

Bill

On my Warner HD-DVDs with both Tru-HD and DD+ tracks, the DD+ track always seems to be encoded at a higher level. This is probably why it "sounded better". It's not better, just louder, something that you can compensate for with the Tru-HD track by turning up the volume.

Vincent

On my Warner HD-DVDs with both Tru-HD and DD+ tracks, the DD+ track always seems to be encoded at a higher level. This is probably why it "sounded better".That's more than likely the reason for the perceived difference in sound quality. Our human hearing doesn't have equi-loudness across all frequencies. As the volume level is lowered, treble and (even moreso) bass seem to go first. Which is why some receivers and pre-pros have a "Loudness" feature, which raises the bass as the volume level is lowered.

The opposite is also true. Raise the volume and the bass range (and a little in the treble too) start to get accentuated, making things sound not only louder but better. During the last meet of our local home theatre club, we did a blind comparison between a PCM track to its DD counterpart. We all picked the DD track as having better bass and sounding clearer. Naturally, we were all surprised to find out that it was the lossy encode; turns out it just decoded louder. Quantitative level differences can often sound like anything but what they really are, and can easily overshadow qualitative differences.

Sanjay

I think DD+ is fine for most movies, even ones with aggressive soundtracks like Transformers. Really, do we need ultimate fidelity for explosions and crashes? No. Where lossless audio is worthwhile is in music. Concert HD-DVD's and I guess "musicals" should definitely take advantage of it. If movies want to include lossless audio, fine, but it shouldn't be at the expense of something else. With concert HD-DVD's however, I think it is a real shortcoming if they DON'T use lossless audio.

Get the box set. None of those discs are combos. Or buy the UK version of The order of the Phoenix. It is a 2 disc set with HD extras and no combo disc.

Kind of off topic of the thread, but I got Harry Potter 5 from Netflix, and the disc was not a combo, but it didn't have the art I've seen from the box set discs either - it was the same as the cover art. I'm really confused O_O

It's one thing to say a specific DD+ track sounds better to you in your theater setup than a specific TrueHD track, and there are many contributing factors to this.

But to state that DD+ is better than TrueHD is to not understand the technical differences between the two. If all things are equal, in an environment that favors the mix, technically, TrueHD is the superior format and true to the master. Period.

Another note.... how do we know that many of the people on AVS don't have their receivers connected through optical or coaxal digital and then proclaiming DD+ sounds better than TrueHD?

It's possible many people don't realize you must use HDMI or Multichannel Analog to transfer TrueHD. I know.... most people on AVS are enthusiasts, but with the influx of new visitors that the format wars has brought in the last year or so, I'm not so sure.

It's too bad no one wants to put a 1.5mbps DD+ track and a True HD track on the same disc.

Try End of Days. It has both.

Dialog normalization is another "feature" that can be programmed into the data stream. Don't think DD+ or DD supports that either.

All TrueHD, Dolby Digital Plus and Dolby Digital soundtrack include Dialog Normalization metadata and have done so since the formats were created.

Kind of off topic of the thread, but I got Harry Potter 5 from Netflix, and the disc was not a combo, but it didn't have the art I've seen from the box set discs either - it was the same as the cover art. I'm really confused O_O

That's kind of what the UK version looks like. But the UK version also has a big number 12 in a circle and an octagon. Which I guess is the ratings system in the UK.
Maybe there was a special version for Netflix. They've done that with DVDs in the past.

Interesting post and topic. For whatever reason, there have been a few instances where I was not blown away by the TrueHD soundtrack on certain HD DVD titles. I have a Sony STRDG series receiver that handles multi-channel PCM which is sort of your minimum requirement to enjoy the new HD soundtracks. The sound from this unit is usually very good so when the occassional "suspect" track comes along I just chalk it up to the fact that nothing is perfect and who knows if the original source might be the culprit?

I dunno..... but yeah.... it bugs me when the TruHD track doesnt "kick" as much as Im expecting.

This is just my opinion, but True-HD is overrated. Lossless is cool in theory, but I don't think many people are going to be able to tell much of a difference between it and regular Dolby 5.1. Plus it's much more important that the original audio track and transfer are done well than what kind of audio format it's in; if the movie just sounds like garbage to begin with, True-HD isn't going to magically make it good.

A month or so I was trying to decide whether I should get the XBOX 360 add on or the Toshiba A2 standalone. The add on doesn't have True-HD, while the A2 doesn't do 1080P. In the end I decided that 1080P was much more important than having True-HD,so I went with the add on.

Again, I'm not trying to bad mouth THD, and I know some people enjoy it, but you cannot doubt it is a marketing gimmick at least in part. Some people are going to buy THD discs just because they are "the best" and not having the "best" is unacceptable to them. Just like small 1080P sets, SACD, and fancy cables (and any number of things),it makes people feel warm and fuzzy inside just knowing they have it.

I personally enjoy my compressed tracks (and 720P panel) and feel no immediate need to upgrade. My philosophy is that if you like what you have and it's "good enough" for you, no need to keep up the Joneses. To each his own....

I think it's Warner and their !@#$ing dialnorm settings biting us again.

Totally agree. The simplest issue and probably the problem. I'd like to hear if the BR version with its PCM track has a dialog level issue (I recall it has PCM in place of the TrueHD track, perhaps I'm wrong). If not, I'd point a finger at dialnorm once again. Bah.

How exactly do you guys believe dialnorm affects dialogue? You do know that it doesn't just affect dialogue, right?

On my Warner HD-DVDs with both Tru-HD and DD+ tracks, the DD+ track always seems to be encoded at a higher level. This is probably why it "sounded better". It's not better, just louder, something that you can compensate for with the Tru-HD track by turning up the volume.

Vincent

My own experience is the same as yours.

Another note.... how do we know that many of the people on AVS don't have their receivers connected through optical or coaxal digital and then proclaiming DD+ sounds better than TrueHD?

It's possible many people don't realize you must use HDMI or Multichannel Analog to transfer TrueHD. I know.... most people on AVS are enthusiasts, but with the influx of new visitors that the format wars has brought in the last year or so, I'm not so sure.

Not only do they need HDMI but it has to be 1.3 nad so does the player.

I have an A20 1.2 and a Onkyo 705 1.3 and i'm using HDMI and I hope soon to get a A35. To complete my set up.:o

Not if they're using the player to convert then streaming PCM over HDMI. Any version of HDMI will be fine in that case.

TruHD has more dynamic range then Dolby Digital, so the difference in volume between loud action scenes and soft dialogue is greater. This could explain why it is harder to make out dialogue in TruHD.

On the same HD DVD with DD+ and TrueHD. I find that the TrueHD does have more Dynamic Range. BUT there is one HD DVD that stands out to me that has ONLY DD+ (and no TrueHD) which is King Kong which sounds Fantastic!

All-in-all I prefer the TrueHD from my A1's Analog-Out than SPDIF Bitsteam.

...Angelo

On the same HD DVD with DD+ and TrueHD. I find that the TrueHD does have more Dynamic Range. BUT there is one HD DVD that stands out to me that has ONLY DD+ (and no TrueHD) which is King Kong which sounds Fantastic!

All-in-all I prefer the TrueHD from my A1's Analog-Out than SPDIF Bitsteam.

...Angelo

What's your A-1 analog settings? I want to make sure mine is correct. I have the digital out spdif as pcm and digital out hdmi as bitstream.

Thanks.

What's your A-1 analog settings? I want to make sure mine is correct. I have the digital out spdif as pcm and digital out hdmi as bitstream.

Thanks.

Dynamic Range Control is OFF
Dialog Enhancement is OFF

I have HDMI direct to my HDTV, therefore HDMI is DownMix PCM. SPDIF is bitstream. The 5.1 Analog Out has all speaker set to Zero dB and Large, speaker distance are measured and entered in the A1, the sub is set to USE at 80Hz (the crossover doesn't matter when speakers are set to Large which disables Bass Management in the A1, I never tested the Bass Management with firmware 2.4 but since all other firmwares had poor Bass Management I leave the speakers to Large since my speaker had good LFE). Levels are calibrated and set in my Yamaha HTR-5960 discrete 7.1 Inputs (only using 5.1).

The Yamaha HTR-5960 SPDIF has Bass Management at a crossover at 60Hz (tested 80Hz and 40Hz, 60Hz was the best for my speakers) and calibrated to the same levels as the 7.1 Analog-In, therefore switching from SPDIF to Analog the loudness is the same but with better dynamic range with TrueHD from the Analog Input.

Speakers with LFE (DIN) specs:
Front Left/Right - Paradigm Monitor 11 - LFE 32Hz
Center - Paradigm CC-390 - LFE 44Hz
Surrounds - Paradigm Mini Monitor - LFE 43Hz
Subwoofer - Paradigm PW-2200 - LFE 17Hz

Hope it helps.

...Angelo

A month or so I was trying to decide whether I should get the XBOX 360 add on or the Toshiba A2 standalone. The add on doesn't have True-HD, while the A2 doesn't do 1080P. In the end I decided that 1080P was much more important than having True-HD,so I went with the add on.

I'm quite certain the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on does indeed support True HD, so long as you have it hooked up through HDMI. It decodes it via software in the 360 and sends multichannel PCM over the HDMI.

I'll take a 1.5mbs 24bit DD+ track any day over a True HD 16 bit track.

Well, since you are comparing apples and oranges, why stop there.

You will also take the DD+ track mixed by a professional over TrueHD mixed by a 2 year old child.:)

BUT there is one HD DVD that stands out to me that has ONLY DD+ (and no TrueHD) which is King Kong which sounds Fantastic!


I think a lot of people mistakenly equate great surround effects with great audio quality. I bought KK because it got 5 stars for audio. I admit that the surrounds are great, but overall it sounded hollow and unsatisfying to me.

Applejacks make sure your amp isn't applying some digital effect like stadium etc. Plus check if there is a setting for speaker size and distance and make sure they match as close as possible to your setup. I don't know if HDMI disables these types of options but check just in case.

True HD does sound warmer with greater range to my ear but its not a deal breaker however it shouldn't sound worse than DD+

Another note.... how do we know that many of the people on AVS don't have their receivers connected through optical or coaxal digital and then proclaiming DD+ sounds better than TrueHD?

It's possible many people don't realize you must use HDMI or Multichannel Analog to transfer TrueHD. I know.... most people on AVS are enthusiasts, but with the influx of new visitors that the format wars has brought in the last year or so, I'm not so sure.


Heh...it's always wise to read with a big grain 'o salt. A recent thread wondered in a big headline why his HD DVD picture "sucked", only to find that he was playing an SD and didn't know it. There are no requirements to post here.

Not only do they need HDMI but it has to be 1.3 nad so does the player.
Nope. There are no standalone HD DVD players that can't deliver a decoded TrueHD track to a compatible 1.1 receiver.

Applejacks make sure your amp isn't applying some digital effect like stadium etc. Plus check if there is a setting for speaker size and distance and make sure they match as close as possible to your setup. I don't know if HDMI disables these types of options but check just in case.

True HD does sound warmer with greater range to my ear but its not a deal breaker however it shouldn't sound worse than DD+

7.1 Speakers were set up using the Audyssey function in the receiver. Distance and crossover seem to be correct. (Mid range quality speakers)

DD+ has PLIIx applied but TruHD does not. With my 605 doing the decoding the TruHD indeed sounds fuller and louder than the DD+ but with the HP disc there was just something about the dialog that made it hard for me to understand.

TruHD on StarTrek sounds wonderful and diaglog is very clear.

At my age I don't have the greatest hearing but I'm sure many others are in the some boat. :)

All things being equal a DTS-Master, TrueHD, PCM track will always sound better and clearer than a lossy track.

I have just recently got into DVD-Audio and SACD and although the remastered CD's and DTS/DD DVD's can sound pretty good, the 24 bit, non-lossy formats sound smoother and deeper. If you can't hear it, then your proccessing, amp, hookup, setup, speakers and/or ears are in question. Sorry.

This is assuming that the audio tracks were done right in production, mixing and mastering.

It like saying MP3's sound just as good as CD's....or photocopies look just as good as the original, AM radio is sounds just like FM, cable HD/DVD is just as good as HD-DVD/Bluray.

One way a lossless track can sound worse is if they took the DD track and converted it to THD although it would probably sound the same.

Lets not start any myths here that kill the best formats. If you want to use DD then go right ahead, it is probabbly good enough for most HTIAB systems/people, but please let me have SACD, DVD-A, Bluray, HD-DVD, TrueHD, DTS-MA because they have the ability to blow away the older formats if done right.

I'm quite certain the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on does indeed support True HD, so long as you have it hooked up through HDMI. It decodes it via software in the 360 and sends multichannel PCM over the HDMI.

Guess again.

I'm quite certain the Xbox 360 HD-DVD add-on does indeed support True HD, so long as you have it hooked up through HDMI. It decodes it via software in the 360 and sends multichannel PCM over the HDMI.


It decodes the TruHD except that it doesn't send "multichannel PCM" unless you consider Stereo PCM "multichannel" (although you can run the stereo PCM thru Dobly Pro Logic II) .

To get 5.1 out of 360 your choices are DD 5.1 640kbps DTS 1.5 mbps or WMA Pro, all the same whether HDMI, optical or coax connections.

I think a lot of people mistakenly equate great surround effects with great audio quality. I bought KK because it got 5 stars for audio. I admit that the surrounds are great, but overall it sounded hollow and unsatisfying to me.

Yes, I agree the surround effects on KK is Fantastic. As for quality that is tough to compare when no TrueHD track is on the disk. Even thou it is DD+ the audio quality beats any DVD audio track.

...Angelo

Not only do they need HDMI but it has to be 1.3 nad so does the player.

I have an A20 1.2 and a Onkyo 705 1.3 and i'm using HDMI and I hope soon to get a A35. To complete my set up.:oAs Jack mentioned earlier, your statement is only true if you intend to send the encoded bitstream to the receiver and have the receiver decode it. HDMI of any version will transfer TrueHD as PCM if the player does the decoding. :)

The ones I am worried about are those using digital coaxal or optical. In those instances people may select TrueHD, and it may even sound slightly different. But coaxal and optical do not handle TrueHD as intended. You should have a player setting that will decide how TrueHD is handled through those outputs. It will either send TrueHD as stereo PCM, in which case, you will experience lossless, but you need to also select "Stereo" so that no receiver processing is applied. If receiver processing is applied, you will receive matrixed channels for your surround. The other option is to allow the player to downscale the audio to DTS. While DTS will at least keep the bitrate at 1.5 mbps, it will still downsample the lossless. This option lets your player blindly process the lossless track removing data. Obviously, allowing a player to remove data based off an algorithim is going to be inferior to a professional downmix of the master to DD+ at the same bitrate. This is essentially what those who listen to the TrueHD track over digital coax or optical will experience.

I have just gotten an DV-HD805 playing into my TX-SR805 via bitstream and I have found that most TrueHD sound tracks to be phenomenal. I had an -A2 up until the last couple of days, which was pretty good but with very low level output in TrueHD mode, but now with the HD805 and the receiver doing the decoding I have been amazed at the quality of the sound track. One of my reference tracks for audio has been the Phantom of the Opera disc - the chapter where Christine sings solo for the first time and then the chapter starting with the masque ball. The clarity of her voice and the background orchestra are phenomenal. In addition the starting of the masque ball sequence with the fireworks are amazing with the crackling of the fireworks and the boom of the explosions in LFE channel. I do have excellent speakers using some pretty old school KEF 102's for fronts and a KEF center channel along with some ADS rear channels installed in my walls finally a 12" Boston sub all adds to great sound!;)

It decodes the TruHD except that it doesn't send "multichannel PCM" unless you consider Stereo PCM "multichannel" (although you can run the stereo PCM thru Dobly Pro Logic II) .

To get 5.1 out of 360 your choices are DD 5.1 640kbps DTS 1.5 mbps or WMA Pro, all the same whether HDMI, optical or coax connections.

What about this article? I remember something similar being quoted from a Microsoft rep.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/how-does-the-xbox-360-hd-dvd-work-212747.php

New to this hddvd audio thing have several hdvd and the DD+ way louder than the DD trueHD except for the Led Zepplin HDVD and DDTRUEHD just smokes compared to DD+ running an A2 bitstream and downmixed PCM this only title that does this with my setup

What about this article? I remember something similar being quoted from a Microsoft rep.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/how-does-the-xbox-360-hd-dvd-work-212747.php
Unless something has changed. Last I read, the Xbox 360 add-on will only allow downsampled audio as DTS or DD to be output. Even the Elite will only support 2-channel PCM through HDMI.

Dynamic range is a function of the bit depth, 24 bit v. 16 bit and not a function of the codec. The newer codecs seem to be encoded at a bit lower level to take advantage of the dynamic range available.

Bill

Exactly. While the DD+ tracks sound GREAT. (Transformers, Serenity, Bourne Supremacy etc...) those discs that do have a TrueHD at least on my gear and my ears are noticeable better, clearer, dynamic range. Soft moments are revealed as intended then when it needs too, it shakes the foundation of my city. :D

Take 300 for example. A quick toggle of the remote's audio button and it's VERY clear that the TrueHD track is to die for.

Kind of off topic of the thread, but I got Harry Potter 5 from Netflix, and the disc was not a combo, but it didn't have the art I've seen from the box set discs either - it was the same as the cover art. I'm really confused O_O

Netflix and other major video rental houses often receive a version produced specifically for them. My guess is they save money on packaging costs since Netflix has no use for the fancy packaging other than maybe resale on used discs. Many times I've even seen things like "Not For Retail Sale" imprinted directly on the disc. My guess is that the disc you received was one of these.

Interesting to see this thread, as I just got a new receiver and am surprised the other way around: I'm surprised at how much of a difference I hear. Granted, too much of it's apples to teapots anyway as there's not enough DD+ and THD of the same mix out there. But that's par for the course for this thread.

Now I'm not what I'd consider a member of the better audio a-hole brigade, have never considered not buying a disc because it only has DD+. Always found the difference obvious though even on the previous setup using analog outs into an older amp. But with the gear upgrade the gap got wider, and I can't even use bitstreaming yet.

The apples and oranges thing ruins the whole discussion unfortunately, which is a shame. It's an interesting topic, if only to find out if your ears or your gear care enough to matter. There was a thread about Top Gun and how the lossy tracks supposedly sounded better. THD is much lower at the same volume level on that disc than the extremely loud dts track. Crank it up and it becomes obvious that the dynamics and clarity are on another level entirely. dts is compressed, limited garbage in comparison yet the debate was heated.

Anyway, this lossless stuff ended up being more of a deal than I'd thought. That's after hearing it and hearing it again myself, no bandwaggon mumbo jumbo nor did I even care that much. Now I do and I see threads about how it's all bs. Go figure.

Originally Posted by Dahlsim
It decodes the TruHD except that it doesn't send "multichannel PCM" unless you consider Stereo PCM "multichannel" (although you can run the stereo PCM thru Dobly Pro Logic II) .

To get 5.1 out of 360 your choices are DD 5.1 640kbps DTS 1.5 mbps or WMA Pro, all the same whether HDMI, optical or coax connections.

What about this article? I remember something similar being quoted from a Microsoft rep.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/home-entertainment/how-does-the-xbox-360-hd-dvd-work-212747.php

All that is saying is that 360 hd dvd player will handle all those Audio codecs, including TruHD, which it does. the way it's handled however is to decode them to either DD 5.1 640kbps DTS 1.5 mbps, WMA Pro or stereo PCM. HDMI makes no difference on the audio for 360.