Does anybody have the capability of comparing the DTS-core audio to the DTS-HD MA audio on the Pans Labyrinth HDDVD?

If so, is there a very noticeable difference? I know this is really dependent on ones settup and is very subjective, but any info would be appreciated.

Does anybody have the capability of comparing the DTS-core audio to the DTS-HD MA audio on the Pans Labyrinth HDDVD?

If so, is there a very noticeable difference? I know this is really dependent on ones settup and is very subjective, but any info would be appreciated.

I would like to know as well, also is the core 5.1? or 7.1? will the A3 even spit out all 8 channels?

I would like to know as well, also is the core 5.1? or 7.1? will the A3 even spit out all 8 channels?

Pretty sure the core is 7.1. I saw it in BB yesterday.

I can't listen to DTS-MA, but I will report if the core is 5.1 or 7.1 later tonight. I just picked it up yesterday.

Pretty sure the core is 7.1. I saw it in BB yesterday.

DTS core is 5.1.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Digital_Theater_System

That Wiki says nothing regarding the core being 5.1 only. I can comment on Pan's Labyrinth after testing that it is only showing up as 5.1.

The core can only be 5.1. If it's ES it can be 6.1, but not 7.1. The HD MA does support 7.1, but not the core,

Amazon is delivering my copy today. I have the A35, so I can send the DTS-MA bitstream directly to my Onkyo 885 to decode into my 7.1 setup. I believe that by changing the A35 to send it as LPCM, it will only process the Core, so I should be able to compare the two.

My equipment downstream from the Onkyo PR-SC885 is as follows:

Adcom GFA-5500 -> Mains (2 * Klipsch KLF-30s)
Adcom GFA-7500 -> Center (1 * Klipsch KLF-C7) + Surrounds (4 * Klipsch RS-3)
Crown CE-2000 ---> Sub #1 (1 * TC Sounds PA-5000 18" in 400 Liter Enclosure)
Crown CE-2000 ---> Sub #2 (1 * TC Sounds PA-5000 18" in 400 Liter Enclosure)

I've never seen anything other than 5.1 from the DTS on all my HD DVDs with DTS-MA. But I also don't think any of the HD DVD only players are capable of sending anything higher than 6 channels(5.1 pcm) over HDMI.

Amazon is delivering my copy today. I have the A35, so I can send the DTS-MA bitstream directly to my Onkyo 885 to decode into my 7.1 setup. I believe that by changing the A35 to send it as LPCM, it will only process the Core, so I should be able to compare the two.

My equipment downstream from the Onkyo PR-SC885 is as follows:

Adcom GFA-5500 -> Mains (2 * Klipsch KLF-30s)
Adcom GFA-7500 -> Center (1 * Klipsch KLF-C7) + Surrounds (4 * Klipsch RS-3)
Crown CE-2000 ---> Sub #1 (1 * TC Sounds PA-5000 18" in 400 Liter Enclosure)
Crown CE-2000 ---> Sub #2 (1 * TC Sounds PA-5000 18" in 400 Liter Enclosure)

I believe the best comparison would be to hook up a SPDIF connection and send bitstream so your processor is doing the decoding in both situations.

That Wiki says nothing regarding the core being 5.1 only. I can comment on Pan's Labyrinth after testing that it is only showing up as 5.1.

I noticed this part at the bottom. :)


DTS-HD Master Audio, previously known as DTS++ and DTS-HD, supports a virtually unlimited number of surround sound channels, can downmix to 5.1 and two-channel, and can deliver audio quality at bit rates extending from DTS Digital Surround up to lossless (24-bit, 96 kHz).



Amazon is delivering my copy today. I have the A35, so I can send the DTS-MA bitstream directly to my Onkyo 885 to decode into my 7.1 setup. I believe that by changing the A35 to send it as LPCM, it will only process the Core, so I should be able to compare the two.

My equipment downstream from the Onkyo PR-SC885 is as follows:


Does the PR-SC885 matrix 5.1 into 7.1 by default?

I got this yesterday and checked the audio options. If I remember correctly there was was only one option (for english speakers) and that is Spanish DTS Master 7.1. I have an AX2 and set the direct switch to on. Right away my Onyko 605 read DTS Master 7.1 and that is what I heard.

I got this yesterday and checked the audio options. If I remember correctly there was was only one option (for english speakers) and that is Spanish DTS Master 7.1. I have an AX2 and set the direct switch to on. Right away my Onyko 605 read DTS Master 7.1 and that is what I heard.

I have the XA2 connected to the Onkyo 705. I just popped it in for a quick look, I plan on really watching it tonight. I also got the DTS Master Audio 7.1.

It would be interesting to find out what the HD-DVD player is decoding comparing to the HBR streaming. I will try to toggle the audio in the player or receiver to decode the DTS part of the stream. I should then either see a 7.1 or 5.1 ES or just 5.1.

Does the PR-SC885 matrix 5.1 into 7.1 by default?
I normally use the "THX Ultra2 Cinema" mode, which does matrix 5.1 into 7.1. However, for this test I will also try "THX Cinema" which I believe leaves 5.1 alone, even if 7.1 speakers are available.

I believe the best comparison would be to hook up a SPDIF connection and send bitstream so your processor is doing the decoding in both situations.
Will do, thanks.

Interesting thread...things I'd like to know.

HDMI 1.3 Bitstreaming = DTS-MA (Confirmed above)
HDMI 1.3 LPCM =????? 5.1 or 7.1?
HDMI 1.1/1.2 LPCM = ?????? 5.1 or 7.1?
HDMI 1.1/1.2 Bitstream = ?????? DTS or DTS-ES?
S/PDIF = ?????? DTS or DTS-ES?

I got my copy and here are a few quick observations:

Bitstreaming is most certainly 7.1 channels as seen in this shot of the front of my 885:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/pansdtsma.jpg

And if I tell to A35 to not do bistream direct, I get a 5.1 LPCM feed:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/panspcm.jpg

Switching to optical is still 5.1:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/pansoptical.jpg

So how does it sound?

Running the DTS-HD MA as bitstream to my receiver and using either THX Cinema or THX Ultra2 Cinema, the sound is amazing! During the first chapter when the girl first meets the fairy, the 4 distinct channels of surround is amazing. You truly feel like being in the middle of the forest.

Switching to LPCM (core only), the soundtrack is still great, but no where near as immersive as the full 7.1 lossless track. While THX Ultra2 does fill the rear surrounds, it does not compare to the distinct channels in the original 7.1 soundtrack. Switching to optical did not sound any different.

Regardless of mode and delivery, the LFE channel sure packs a mean punch in certain scenes (and I'm only 20 minutes into the movie).

The next thing I want to do though is watch the entire movie in DTS-HD MA bliss, and bookmark scenes that exhibit great 7.1 detail, and then check those scenes later using the optical cable. The only problem with this plan is that I'm having a couple of friends over to watch the movie with me and we're already on our 2nd Jack n' Coke... :D

I have a dumb question. To get the dtsMA do you just need a new receiver such as the Onkyo, or do you also need a certain HD DVD player that has HDMI 1.3? I have the HD-A1 and was wondering in I just need a receiver upgrade or both.

I only have a 5.1 setup, but I do have a receiver and player that can do the DTS-HD MA. So in my case would I still experience higher quality sound with DTS-HD MA compared to "core", or will it basically be the same because I only have 5.1 and not 7.1?

I got my copy and here are a few quick observations:

Bitstreaming is most certainly 7.1 channels as seen in this shot of the front of my 885:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/pansdtsma.jpg

And if I tell to A35 to not do bistream direct, I get a 5.1 LPCM feed:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/panspcm.jpg

Switching to optical is still 5.1:

http://www.cstone.net/~dk/pansoptical.jpg

So how does it sound?

Running the DTS-HD MA as bitstream to my receiver and using either THX Cinema or THX Ultra2 Cinema, the sound is amazing! During the first chapter when the girl first meets the fairy, the 4 distinct channels of surround is amazing. You truly feel like being in the middle of the forest.

Switching to LPCM (core only), the soundtrack is still great, but no where near as immersive as the full 7.1 lossless track. While THX Ultra2 does fill the rear surrounds, it does not compare to the distinct channels in the original 7.1 soundtrack. Switching to optical did not sound any different.

Regardless of mode and delivery, the LFE channel sure packs a mean punch in certain scenes (and I'm only 20 minutes into the movie).

The next thing I want to do though is watch the entire movie in DTS-HD MA bliss, and bookmark scenes that exhibit great 7.1 detail, and then check those scenes later using the optical cable. The only problem with this plan is that I'm having a couple of friends over to watch the movie with me and we're already on our 2nd Jack n' Coke... :D

Thanks for the informative review! even if it was just quick impressions. If you get anything to add let us know. Do it sober :P

I have a dumb question. To get the dtsMA do you just need a new receiver such as the Onkyo, or do you also need a certain HD DVD player that has HDMI 1.3? I have the HD-A1 and was wondering in I just need a receiver upgrade or both.

You'll need a new receiver like the onkyo as well as either the HD-A35 or XA2. As far as I know those are the only two HD-DVD players capable of sending a raw bitstream DTS-MA/TrueHD signal for your receiver to decode. I don't think either player will decode the DTS-MA in the player and send it out via HDMI or analogs (I have a D1 so I am in the same boat as you).

I only have a 5.1 setup, but I do have a receiver and player that can do the DTS-HD MA. So in my case would I still experience higher quality sound with DTS-HD MA compared to "core", or will it basically be the same because I only have 5.1 and not 7.1?

Well, you should have some difference as the dtshdma is lossless and the core isn't. It won't be as good as the having the 2 extra discreet channels from the 7.1 but it should be lossless. I have a 5.1 also but I think I'm going to go out looking for some post-xmas sales for 2 more rears now that a few more movies are coming with true 7.1.

Also has anyone seen Pan's in Canada. I can't find it in any stores. Only see it on Amazon.ca but with a 5-10 day wait for shipping. Seems like lots in the US on bestbuy.com and amazon.com but none in Canada. Anyone seen any??

You'll need a new receiver like the onkyo as well as either the HD-A35 or XA2. As far as I know those are the only two HD-DVD players capable of sending a raw bitstream DTS-MA/TrueHD signal for your receiver to decode. I don't think either player will decode the DTS-MA in the player and send it out via HDMI or analogs (I have a D1 so I am in the same boat as you).

The Onkyo DV-HD805 does this as well.

The core package of any DTS-HD HR or DTS-HD MA track is always "plain" DTS 5.1 @ 48KHz (or 44.1KHz). The bitrate can vary from 768K-1509Kbps however 1.5Mbps is almost always used. The DTS core pkg can have ES flags (matrixed ES) however discrete ES 6.1 is not possible nor is DTS 24/96 as both require extension packages.

The core was designed for maximum compatibility. All DTS decoders are required to decode up to DTS 5.1 @ 1.5Mbps. Having the core use extension pkgs would result in compatibility issues which defeat the purpose of including the core.

It doesn't matter how many channels the DTS-HD track has the core will ALWAYS be DTS 5.1.

You'll need a new receiver like the onkyo as well as either the HD-A35 or XA2. As far as I know those are the only two HD-DVD players capable of sending a raw bitstream DTS-MA/TrueHD signal for your receiver to decode. I don't think either player will decode the DTS-MA in the player and send it out via HDMI or analogs (I have a D1 so I am in the same boat as you).

That is correct. There is no HD DVD player that can internally decode DTS-HD or DTS-HD MA.

There are 3 players that can bitstream advanced codecs (including DTS-HD MA):
HD-XA2
HD-A35
DV-HD805 (Onkyo)

If you have one of the above players connected by HDMI v1.3 to an HDMI v1.3 receiver that can decode DTS-HD MA and bitsream mode is turn ON on the player you will get the full 8 channel lossless audio.

If you have any other player, or any other connection method, or the receiver can't decode DTS-HD MA, or bitstream mode is turned off the player will extract the "core". The core is DTS 5.1 @ 1.5Mbps.

I've never seen anything other than 5.1 from the DTS on all my HD DVDs with DTS-MA. But I also don't think any of the HD DVD only players are capable of sending anything higher than 6 channels(5.1 pcm) over HDMI.

All HD DVD players are capable of outputting 8 channel LPCM over HDMI v1.1.
To date there have been no 8 channel TrueHD or DD+ tracks that can be decoded internally.

I only have a 5.1 setup, but I do have a receiver and player that can do the DTS-HD MA. So in my case would I still experience higher quality sound with DTS-HD MA compared to "core", or will it basically be the same because I only have 5.1 and not 7.1?

Yes you will have higher sound quality even on a 5.1 setup because the DTS-HD is lossless. This is similar to TrueHD 5.1 sounding better than Dolby Digital+ 5.1

I was excited to see all of the surround lights to come on the VSX-94TXH.
Needless to say I was bummed when they didn't.

Put disc back in and noticed that when the New Line splash screen comes on, all surround lights (SL, SR, SBL, SBR) come on as do the regular L R and LFE.

It is only when the movie starts, do the SBL and SBR lights turn off.

Obviously, this is a problem with the mastering of the BD, since the correct decoding takes place during the splash screen.

As this is my only 7.1 disc, I can only state this through my observation , as I have no other disc to use at this time.

I was excited to see all of the surround lights to come on the VSX-94TXH.
Needless to say I was bummed when they didn't.

Put disc back in and noticed that when the New Line splash screen comes on, all surround lights (SL, SR, SBL, SBR) come on as do the regular L R and LFE.

It is only when the movie starts, do the SBL and SBR lights turn off.

Obviously, this is a problem with the mastering of the BD, since the correct decoding takes place during the splash screen.

As this is my only 7.1 disc, I can only state this through my observation , as I have no other disc to use at this time.

Hmmm, this is very interesting. Just to clarify - you have the BD or the HD DVD of Pans?
The reason I ask is this...I have the Pio Elite 92 and I own Hairspray BD which is MA 7.1. However, the only time my 92 displays the full 7.1 is during the New Line splash at the beginning. When the movie starts, it changes to 5.1 and plays that throughout.
Now you state Pans does the same thing on your 94. If you have the BD of Pans, this issue does relate to New Line's authoring of the disc and should be reported as such.
If the HD DVD is doing this, then I would say the problem lies in the Pio. I don't own Pans to test and see what is up. Maybe someone can chime in that has a similar setup and can test this out.

So how does it sound?

Running the DTS-HD MA as bitstream to my receiver and using either THX Cinema or THX Ultra2 Cinema, the sound is amazing! During the first chapter when the girl first meets the fairy, the 4 distinct channels of surround is amazing. You truly feel like being in the middle of the forest.

Switching to LPCM (core only), the soundtrack is still great, but no where near as immersive as the full 7.1 lossless track. While THX Ultra2 does fill the rear surrounds, it does not compare to the distinct channels in the original 7.1 soundtrack.Interesting comparison. I wonder how much of the difference is because of the additional discrete channels, and how much due to the lossless MA extension. I did a similar comparison with my Renaissance HD DVD (German release) which has a 5.1 DTS-HD MA track (and a brilliantly mixed one at that). I couldn't honestly detect a difference between core and full MA (except that my XE1's PCM output had a slightly lower volume than the bitstream output via my Onkyo 805 receiver).
Switching to optical did not sound any different.In theory you should get a slightly degraded sound compared to PCM via HDMI, because none of the current players outputs the core directly via S/PDIF. Instead, the core is decoded, sent through the internal mixer, and re-encoded to DTS again. But chaining together two lossy encoders is worse than a single one, even if they are the same (this phenomenon is called "tandem loss"). Whether it makes an audible difference is another question though ...

Also has anyone seen Pan's in Canada. I can't find it in any stores. Only see it on Amazon.ca but with a 5-10 day wait for shipping. Seems like lots in the US on bestbuy.com and amazon.com but none in Canada. Anyone seen any??

I picked up a BD copy of Pan's Labyrinth from Best Buy on the 27th. The HD DVD version was no where to be seen.

Hmmm, this is very interesting. Just to clarify - you have the BD or the HD DVD of Pans?
The reason I ask is this...I have the Pio Elite 92 and I own Hairspray BD which is MA 7.1. However, the only time my 92 displays the full 7.1 is during the New Line splash at the beginning. When the movie starts, it changes to 5.1 and plays that throughout.
Now you state Pans does the same thing on your 94. If you have the BD of Pans, this issue does relate to New Line's authoring of the disc and should be reported as such.
If the HD DVD is doing this, then I would say the problem lies in the Pio. I don't own Pans to test and see what is up. Maybe someone can chime in that has a similar setup and can test this out.
I have the BD disc of Pans.
I sat and watched the indicator lights change.

I think it is a mastering issue.

I know the VSX-94txh works in 7.1 since I get 7.1 during the New Line logo screen.

I would say we could swap discs and try them, but we have similar setups and problems.

I may rent the HD-DVD of Pan's, but that is just a waste of time and money, but it would give many of us piece of mind.

I await a response from New Line, as I emailed the head of corporate communications, since his was the only email I found online.

I'm sure he won't be thrilled when he gets back from an extended holiday, but hey we all were dying to have 7.1 sound and it put a damper on our holidays.

Yes, obviously this is a problem. Both Hairspray and Pans (New Line DTS HD-MA 7.1) only output 5.1 during the movies when bitstreamed to a 1.3 receiver. I wonder if people who have Onkyos or Yamahas (1.3) are having this same problem with these discs. I am going to email New Line too. Do you have that email address handy?

In theory you should get a slightly degraded sound compared to PCM via HDMI, because none of the current players outputs the core directly via S/PDIF. Instead, the core is decoded, sent through the internal mixer, and re-encoded to DTS again. But chaining together two lossy encoders is worse than a single one, even if they are the same (this phenomenon is called "tandem loss"). Whether it makes an audible difference is another question though ...

Theory aside. I bought my brother the HD-A3 and he is limited to Optical SPDIF to his receiver. In his opinion the HD DVD audio has better sounding audio than the DVD releases of the same movies.

...Angelo

Well I own a pio 94TXH and a A35 HDDVD player. During the New Line intro I get fantastic sounding 7.1 for all of 3 seconds. The 7 speaker lights are up and DTS-MASTER is on the screen. Once the movie starts I only see 5.1 lit up but DTS-MASTER is still there. I assumed I had 7.1 PLIIx and THX off because I did the auto surround selection. During the movie I could still hear plenty of sound coming from all surrounds, but it sounded nothing like the fullness of the New Line intro. I specifically bought this movie again for the 7.1 mix and I'm really disturbed.

Yes, obviously this is a problem. Both Hairspray and Pans (New Line DTS HD-MA 7.1) only output 5.1 during the movies when bitstreamed to a 1.3 receiver. I wonder if people who have Onkyos or Yamahas (1.3) are having this same problem with these discs. I am going to email New Line too. Do you have that email address handy?

Hairspray outputs 7.1 on my Yamaha RX-V3800 for the duration of the movie.

Hairspray outputs 7.1 on my Onkyo 605 using bitstream during the entire movie.

Good thread. I too got the New Line Cinema logo with 7.1 sound but once the movie started I only got sound in the rear back speakers with very, very light sound in the the left surround and nothing in the right surround. So while watching the movie, the rear back speakers and the fronts & sub were all that were heard. The reciever showed DTS Master HD and I had digital direct on and my Onkyo 605 was doing the decoding. Just for the heck of it, when I get home I'm going to let my AX2 decode just to see what happens.

Julian, please let us know anything you find out from New Line Cinema.

I tried to find an e-mail address on New Lines website but if it's there it's hidden (what are they afraid of?). Is this worth starting another thread about?

I just tried Pan's Labyrinth on my HD-A2 and can't get it to play at all. I get the message "NOTPLAY" on the player display. On screen says something about the media cannot be verified. Just great. This was a brand new sealed disc. Is the disc bad or do I need a firmware update by chance. I have never updated the firmware on this player.

I just tried Pan's Labyrinth on my HD-A2 and can't get it to play at all. I get the message "NOTPLAY" on the player display. On screen says something about the media cannot be verified. Just great. This was a brand new sealed disc. Is the disc bad or do I need a firmware update by chance. I have never updated the firmware on this player.

Please update your firmware to the latest version.

Hairspray outputs 7.1 on my Onkyo 605 using bitstream during the entire movie.

Good thread. I too got the New Line Cinema logo with 7.1 sound but once the movie started I only got sound in the rear back speakers with very, very light sound in the the left surround and nothing in the right surround. So while watching the movie, the rear back speakers and the fronts & sub were all that were heard. The reciever showed DTS Master HD and I had digital direct on and my Onkyo 605 was doing the decoding. Just for the heck of it, when I get home I'm going to let my AX2 decode just to see what happens.



Conclusion. Above indicates the same Onkyo receiver. Hairspray was done correctly. Pan wasn't.

New Line's "Shoot 'Em Up" suffers the same problem on my Denon 4308. 7.1 input lights during the intro. 5.1 input lights during the movie.

I'm also having the same problem, XA2 => Denon 4308ci... Denon clearly shows it is receiving a 7.1 DTS signal during the Newline logo so it's not a hardware issue, but the movie itself is only 5.1.. the back of the box clearly says it's in 7.1. So which is wrong, the disc or the box art? I'm assuming the disc... so where do I get my replacement disc? :)

-tim

I'm also having the same problem, XA2 => Denon 4308ci... Denon clearly shows it is receiving a 7.1 DTS signal during the Newline logo so it's not a hardware issue, but the movie itself is only 5.1.. the back of the box clearly says it's in 7.1. So which is wrong, the disc or the box art? I'm assuming the disc... so where do I get my replacement disc? :)

-tim

I wont be so sure. Because people with Yamaha and Onkyo are reporting it does work on their receiver. Only Denon and Pioneer have this problem.
So i dont think its an authoring problem.

Pan's on my XA2>Yammie RX-V3800 played DTS-HD Master 7.1 fine through the whole movie.

maybe something to do with the player audio setup that its outputting the core?

Robert.Pini@newline.com

He is the svp of corporate communications.

That is the highest up I could find, since no one else could be found.

Here is the auto reply:

I will be out of the office until Monday January 7. Please note that New Line Cinema closes their offices entirely from Dec. 24 - Jan.1. If you need to reach someone this week or after Jan.1, please contact Kerri Chyka at 212-649-6189. Happy Holidays!

Would call, but I think that would be over the top.

Pan's played 7.1 dts hd ma perfectly on my set up with Xa2 -> Onkyo 705.

I sent the following to Robert at New Line:

Hello Sir;

In the AVS Forum, there is a thread going on concerning the DTS Master HD 7.1 soundtrack of Pans Labyrinth. The issue is that some are not getting 7.1 but 5.1 or in my case I can hear the front speakers and the back surrounds very well but I get nothing out of the right surround and just a whisper out of the left. In all cases when the New Line Cinema logo with 7.1 sound comes on you can clearly hear sound in 7.1 so we know it's not a hardware set-up problem. Do you have any knowledge of this problem that some are experiencing? Here is a quick link to the thread in the AVS Forum http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=961838&page=2 the second page addresses the problem.

Thank you,
J. Marshall

Hope to hear something from him sooner than later. he probably has to catch up on his e-mails.

Guys, I think a new thread needs to be started on this that addresses this issue. We probably need to track what movie it is, the player being used and the receiver being used. Yamaha owners are getting 7.1 to play (bitstream MA) while Pio owners are not. Onkyo owners have been hit and miss.
I find it very strange that the New Line logo is in 7.1 but the movie plays in 5.1 for me. Obviously the receiver can accept the bitstream signal because the NL logo is perfect and obviously the settings are correct in the player itself.
Not sure what is going on but we need some official hard data.

Edit: I see there is a thread started in the BD software forum.

My 3808CI show DTS-HD Master. The Monitor speaker symbols on the 3808 shows 7.1 but the digital speaker symbols shows 5.1 . This is a dumb question but anyone with the a new Denon can tell me why there is 2 seperate speaker symbols ?. All 7 speakers of mine are working. I just don't see 7.1 in the display. I have seen it before. Also at the beginning I do see the digital speaker symbol with 7.1 but when the movie starts its 5.1 there but the Monitor side does show 7.1

Aside from the speaker icons on the front display, the Denon 4308 has on an screen menu that displays the incoming audio signal data. When the movie starts it says: 3/2/.1 instead of 3/4/.1.. that screen essentially says it is receiving a 5.1 signal from the player.

I have the A35 and Onkyo 905 connected via HDMI. When I set the A35 to bitstream my 905 clearly displays 7.1 DTS-Mastr for Pan's during the entire movie. So in my case I am getting the full 7.1 bitstream (even though I only have a 5.1 speaker configuration).

I'm using the 3808ci and the A35 (everything is set properly, Direct Audio etc..) and im having the same issue. Here's the weirdest part and maybe the two guys with the 38 and 43 can confirm this. The speaker diagram on the left DOES change after the splash screen to 5.1 BUT the speaker diagram on the right DOES light up with full 7.1 (minus the LFE cuz mines going to the fronts cuz i dont have a sub). I have all pro logic IIx and matrix processing TURNED OFF so it should not be pushing a 5.1 signal into 7.1. I can still hear sound coming from the surround backs throughout the movie, some of which sounded very discrete but i guess theres no way to confirm that. Let me know what you get guys.

I'm using the 3808ci and the A35 (everything is set properly, Direct Audio etc..) and im having the same issue. Here's the weirdest part and maybe the two guys with the 38 and 43 can confirm this. The speaker diagram on the left DOES change after the splash screen to 5.1 BUT the speaker diagram on the right DOES light up with full 7.1 (minus the LFE cuz mines going to the fronts cuz i dont have a sub). I have all pro logic IIx and matrix processing TURNED OFF so it should not be pushing a 5.1 signal into 7.1. I can still hear sound coming from the surround backs throughout the movie, some of which sounded very discrete but i guess theres no way to confirm that. Let me know what you get guys.


I am getting exactly the same thing as you but I have a sub with the 3808CI and XA2. I have the 3808 set to 7.1 in the setup menu.

Is there a list of 7.1 Blue Ray DVDs and/or 7.1 HD DVDs anywhere on this forum or elsewhere?
I've have found the BR and HD list of ratings but having a hard time determining which ones are 7.l.
Thanks--

I highly recommend reading the thread about the 5000 and its rash of problems before you decide whether or not to keep it, and btw your question should be posted elsewhere

Out of sheer curiosity has anyone tried calling denon or pioneer tech support?

Please update your firmware to the latest version.

That did it. Thanks! Installed newest firmware version. Took about 30 minutes. The movie looks great!

I have the 1.3a compliant Panasonic DMP-BD30 and Onkyo 875 and it shows DTS-HD Master 7.1 for Hairspray on the receiver. I also have the Xmen-The Last Stand, and it shows DTS-HD Master 6.1 on the Onkyo (this one really was phenomenal sounding!!). On the Onkyo 875 window, the bracket on the speaker icon was letter-empty on the back left and right surrounds, but in the middle of the empty brackets was the letters- bck (indicating mono back surround..hence 6.1)
Correct me if I'm wrong, but I have read on The Ultimate A/V review that the Panasonic BD30 is the sole player at this point in time that can output DTS-HD Master 7.1 beatstream wise to the receiver that can decode it.
Anyways, I am esctastic about these new sound technology!!!!!
Oops, I am so sorry that we are talking about HD DVD, as I am neutral.
I have both an Hd-A1 and HD-A2 and recently bought the Panasonic-BD30 for Disney movies and the bitstreaming capability to the Onkyo.
Again, I apologize to the diehard HD DVD fans.

This is a dumb question but anyone with the a new Denon can tell me why there is 2 seperate speaker symbols ?

YUP.

There is ONLY ONE set of speaker symbols!!!!

Did you read the manual???????

The left symbols represent the input signals. The right set indicate which speakers are active.

I finally had a chance to watch and engage the DTS MA HD. I was a bit underwhelmed I must say. There were a handful of standout moments, particularly with some explosions that were very heavy in the LFE channel and sounded absolutely fantastic. But overall it wasn't particularly great. Definitely not demo material IMO. Although the movies are quite different, I felt Transformers sound track blows this away and that is only DD+... I'm not knocking the DTS HD MA format - I think this was mainly the result of the type of movie this is. Great movie though.

I just watched it yesterday, and I would agree the audio track was a bit underwhelming. From the other posts I was expecting the first 20 minutes to be stunning and I was left very disappointed. Not that the audio was bad, it just wasn't "wow" material to me.

I have a Samsung 1400 and a Denon 988 and I have the same 2ch drop after the NL logo screen disappears with Pan's Labyrinth. "War" in 7.1ch LPCM works fine through the whole movie.

I just watched it yesterday, and I would agree the audio track was a bit underwhelming. From the other posts I was expecting the first 20 minutes to be stunning and I was left very disappointed. Not that the audio was bad, it just wasn't "wow" material to me.

I found it rather flat and muddled at times, and not very immersive. I watched Live Free or Die Hard the next night and as a comparison its sound track was much more 'alive' (TrueHD).

I have the Toto concert coming later this week and am curious to hear how its DTS-HD MA track sounds and whether it can live up to the incredible TrueHD track from the Nine in Nails HD DVD...

For those who were "underwhelmed," were you able to get 7.1, 5.1 or something in between like I experienced.

I found it rather flat and muddled at times, and not very immersive. I watched Live Free or Die Hard the next night and as a comparison its sound track was much more 'alive' (TrueHD).

I have the Toto concert coming later this week and am curious to hear how its DTS-HD MA track sounds and whether it can live up to the incredible TrueHD track from the Nine in Nails HD DVD...

Oh man, I love that NIN disc! The audio rocks and even the video presentation is better than I was expecting for a concert. I saw this show live (twice) and this is the next best thing in my opinion (maybe better considering nobody is spilling beer on me and waving burning cigarettes around my face) That's a whole other story. Let's just say that my girlfriend put the guy behind us down for the count. I just stood there with my jaw on the floor. The guy was trying to find his glasses on the floor and get over the shock of just being pwned by a girl. :D

Please return your defectvie dvd to the below address once received we will inspect and send a replacement if needed.
Thank You

Return to:
Cinram Olyphant
Attn: Cindy Yanish
1400 E.Lackawanna Ave
Olyphant PA 18847

This is in responce to my inquiring about the problem I had with my disc.

I have several questions about this topic on this thread. Some receivers light up DTS-HD Master 7.1, some don't. If your avr doesn't is it the receiver, the player(blu-ray/hd dvd) or is it the disc itself(blu-ray/hd dvd)?

are u having the 7.1 problem that I was having?

Thanks

Adam

I contacted New Line Cinema and even though I purchased the disc from Amazon they told me to send it to them so that they can check it out.

ok.

Thanks

Adam

I am just joining this thread as I experience the same issue that soem people are talking about. Please read it below:



7.1 woes with my BD-P1400 and Pio Vsx-9120TXH-k update

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nikonowski
Thanks for you responses all - I really appreciate your support. Just so you know - I think that I am already using HDMI cable 1.3 made by Phillips - but I am not so sure that it is 1.3a. What's the difference between 1.3 and 1.3a and is this really causing me a problem with my speakers lights on my Pioneer reciever. If it was a cable, would that also not work during that New Line DTS-HD MA jingle. This is where all speakers light up and then 2 back surround dissapear but sound is coming out from all of the 7.1 (including back surround) during the Shoot em up movie. I am going to try Rush Hour 3 and War as well but I know that PCM 7.1 has all of the speakers lit up and they stay lit up ( for example during 3:10 to Yuma) I am using the same setup i.e. same HDMI cable. There is got to be something else??? Where do I get 1.3a cable to test this thory out. I ahve not seen them. And by the way, my Pioneer reciever is advertised as HDMI 1.3 aware - so are you saying that I need to change my reciever as well to HDMI 1.3a.

Man , I am so depressed now - I thought I had everything that I needed to have. Perhaps there is another explanation ???

Thanks very much for you valuable help

Nikonowski


Well, well - what do you know Yesterday, I re-tested my setup playing another BD title that has DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 track. This was SAW IV disc and to my suprise, this time the disc "worked" properly. I mean all the speakers icons on my Pioneer reciever lit up and stayed lit up for the duration of the movie. This is the behaviour I would excpect to begin with. I have not changed anything in my setup, just played a different disc from another studio !!! *pay attention as "another studio" may be a key word here)
So just for heck of it, I replayed other titles with DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 track: "Pan's Labirynth" , "Rush Hour 3", "Shoot Em Up" Once again the problem of not displaying the back surround speakers on my Pioneer was still there. Still no changes to my set-up. Therefore, based on my tests, I believe that I have to conclude that the issue lies with how the DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 track is being recorded on New Line Cinema discs. All 3 tiles ("Pan's Labirynth" , "Rush Hour 3", "Shoot Em Up") are mastered by New Line Cinema studio and "Saw IV" is not (it's done by Lionsgate Home Entertainment )

Now, my theory is probably still inconclusive, but I am going to follow up with Pioneer folks (in case there is a problem with their reciever) and then with New Line Cinema folks to see if indeed there is a problem with the DTS-HD Master Audio 7.1 track on their titles. Maybe a combination of both faults: Pioneer and New Line Cinema .

Any one care to comment on this ? Is this Pioneer issue or New Line disk content issues ? What's the consensus so far ?

Nikonowski

just discovered this thread, thanks to google :)

My setup is LG BH200 combo player and Pioneer 9120TXH, same issue: splash intro shown 7.1 on receiver but 5.1 only for the whole movie :mad:

so is this receiver problem or disc?

just discovered this thread, thanks to google :)

My setup is LG BH200 combo player and Pioneer 9120TXH, same issue: splash intro shown 7.1 on receiver but 5.1 only for the whole movie :mad:

so is this receiver problem or disc?

It's a receiver problem. I recently updated the FW in my Denon AVR-988 and the problem has been corrected. Denon has a minor FW update specifically to address this issue with New Line DTS-HD MA 7.1 releases.

It was a problem with the processor in the receiver (and also fixed a couple of other issues), not sure if a fix has been released for Pioneer AVRs or not.

If you have a Denon 2808 or 988, you can find instructions for obtaining the FW in the 2808 Owners thread here (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15118003#post15118003).