I believe that if the format war continues any longer then 2008 will be the year when blu-ray only manufacturers start jumping ship and start manufacturing or at least announce a dual format player.

My prediction: Denon and Pioneer will announce at CEDIA (sep 08) a universal player....whilst Sharp might pull a rabbit out of the hat at CES (jan 08)

If Pioneer jumps then the rest of the industry except Sony will jump to universal ie Panasonic, Phillips, Yamaha etc

Is my future star ball glazing too far fetched?

The next manufacturer to announce a dual format player that has already announced or released a standalone exclusive-format player will either be Onkyo or Sanyo.

It will not be Pioneer or Sharp.

If ONKYO makes one i'm in! I know it will at least work as it should unlike the current ones.

I am really hoping for Denon to announce a Dual format player. With HQV Realta in it. That would really make my day.

I am really hoping for Denon to announce a Dual format player. With HQV Realta in it. That would really make my day.

i agree, the spec sheet on their upcoming blu-ray player looks like it has pretty much what i'm looking for in a player. lots of $$ though, but it would be worth it in dual format.

I would pay what Denon is asking for a dual format player all day long it would be perfect out the box. Till then i will run 2 players.

Nate

Better yet I would like to see Universal Studios and Paramount go neutral and release in BLU-RAY. Then there would be no need to own a dual format player if BLU-RAY had 100% studio support.
Since Universal Studios and Paramount most likely will remain HD-DVD exclusive then the demand for dual format players will increase. LG and Samsung most likely will have competition with other companies in 2008 making dual format players. We will have to wait and see what happens at the Jan CES. Consumers either need the studios to support BLU-RAY 100% or if that is not going to happen we need more companies making dual format players. If Pioneer or Denon one day released a dual format player it would work correctly.

Conversely and fixed for those of us on the other side of the aisle:
Consumers either need the studios to support HD DVD 100% or if that is not going to happen we need more companies making dual format players. If Pioneer or Denon one day released a dual format player it would work correctly.

How can you assume that any dual format will work correctly if the software
(hi-rez discs) keep changing, causing the need for perpetual firmware updates

I would pay what Denon is asking for a dual format player all day long it would be perfect out the box. Till then i will run 2 players.

Nate

Agreed 100%. Maybe after Denon doesn't sell very many of their Blu-Ray only players they'll realize there are people who are literally waiting with money in hand to give them for a universal player.

You listening Denon? If so, throw us a bone at CES or many of us will jump on the next available player instead of being patient in hopes that you might release something in 2008.

How can you assume that any dual format will work correctly if the software
(hi-rez discs) keep changing, causing the need for perpetual firmware updates

Huh?

Why would being a dual-format player have any significant bearing on this? New firmware is needed or BD-only and HD DVD-only players also.

I guess maybe a dual-format might need firmware updates more often... potentially up to twice as often since it would have to keep up with both BD updates and HD updates.

I would pay what Denon is asking for a dual format player all day long it would be perfect out the box. Till then i will run 2 players.

Nate

FYI

I wouldn't trust Denon or any other company blindly. Ask the owners of 5910 and 3910 regarding the macroblocking issues, color space, firmware updates, and customer support. Almost bought a 3910 before I compromised and got the Onkyo sp1000. In a year, Oppo released their 971 with more responsive firmware updates at a fraction of the cost. :rolleyes:

Nothing is perfect and there's always something better around the corner. :eek:

My vote is Denon, but I won't be buying any universal unless it does SACD & DVD-A also. Right now the Oppo 980H/Tosh A35/Panny BD30 combo gives me everything I need.
It would be nice to have it all in one box, providing equal performance, but I'm in no hurry..

If both formats are going to co-exist and there will be no "winner" then I hope that Oppo makes a nice player for $500-$600 with SACD, DVD-A or makes two players. One with everything (full PAL output, SACD etc) and the other with BLu-Ray, HD-DVD, and DVD upconversion.

As time goes on Oppo is going to need to make a HDM player at some point. Very few people are going to be willing to pay $300+ for a DVD player going forward when both Blu-Ray and HD-DVD players will be available at that price point. Sub $300 Blu-Ray players will come and obviously we are already at this price point with HD-DVD.

So, I am looking forward to seeing what Oppo does at some point.

Except maybe for the Chinese I don't think anyone else will make a dual format player. There is just not enough incentive to do so. The only reason LG and Samsung jumped in is because both those companies want to be all all things electronic to everybody and because of their deep rivalry with each other. I think the rest of the electronics companies consider this such a niche product that it is not worth it to them to invest in doing it. They would all rather hold out for the eventual winner or else have such a political/economic commitment to one format or the other that it won't happen.

If there is a product from some high-end company, it will be a re-badged Samsung or LG with some mods, not a new product.

Except maybe for the Chinese I don't think anyone else will make a dual format player. There is just not enough incentive to do so. The only reason LG and Samsung jumped in is because both those companies want to be all all things electronic to everybody and because of their deep rivalry with each other. I think the rest of the electronics companies consider this such a niche product that it is not worth it to them to invest in doing it. They would all rather hold out for the eventual winner or else have such a political/economic commitment to one format or the other that it won't happen.

If there is a product from some high-end company, it will be a re-badged Samsung or LG with some mods, not a new product.

Now thats a different perspective a rebadged Samsung or LG!....but i don't see any of the top end companies like Denon, Pioneer etc doing that for fear of a massacre by their fan base....but hey i have seen stranger things.

Interesting to point out that Oppo might provide a universal player in the new year...now this could definitely be used as a clone by other manufacturers...

I think it is a tough call trying to guess the next one. I do NOT think it will be a Pioneer though.

Maybe Chinese as some other posters have said.

Except maybe for the Chinese I don't think anyone else will make a dual format player. There is just not enough incentive to do so. The only reason LG and Samsung jumped in is because both those companies want to be all all things electronic to everybody and because of their deep rivalry with each other. I think the rest of the electronics companies consider this such a niche product that it is not worth it to them to invest in doing it. They would all rather hold out for the eventual winner or else have such a political/economic commitment to one format or the other that it won't happen.

If there is a product from some high-end company, it will be a re-badged Samsung or LG with some mods, not a new product.

Don't forget what LG and Samsung did to the cell phone market. If they get this dual thing to work and sell well I expect Sony to make a dual player( they will call it a blu ray that can play HD-DVD) also. Sony remembers what happened to the cell phone market. Then there is that little company with the fruit as their logo (Apple) if they get into it imagine a player that does both formats can find and download updates automatically on it's own and easily is connected to your TV or your computer. Hi Def disc players are really just dedicated computers that play movies. If the computer companies smell money and get into this it could get interesting and they would be the ones to end the format wars.

Don't forget what LG and Samsung did to the cell phone market. If they get this dual thing to work and sell well I expect Sony to make a dual player( they will call it a blu ray that can play HD-DVD) also. Sony remembers what happened to the cell phone market. Then there is that little company with the fruit as their logo (Apple) if they get into it imagine a player that does both formats can find and download updates automatically on it's own and easily is connected to your TV or your computer. Hi Def disc players are really just dedicated computers that play movies. If the computer companies smell money and get into this it could get interesting and they would be the ones to end the format wars.

Geez, what planet are you from??? :eek:

Have you not been following the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war? Sony, is the primary protagonist in the Blu-Ray camp. In addition, do you think that having lost the beta/VHS war, Sony is going to roll over and accommodate the HD-DVD format?

Geez, what planet are you from??? :eek:

Have you not been following the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war? Sony, is the primary protagonist in the Blu-Ray camp. In addition, do you think that having lost the beta/VHS war, Sony is going to roll over and accommodate the HD-DVD format?
No, by having a machine to do both they are assimilating the HD-DVD camp.
Watch the Korean companies they will be the weather vane where this is going.

CES 2008 announcements. Perhaps Panasonic and Sony.

CES 2008 announcements. Perhaps Panasonic and Sony.

I see Panny
Is this a typo?

https://myces.bdmetrics.com/Portal/ViewProduct.aspx?id=254610

Maybe others can help find more info?

https://myces.bdmetrics.com/Portal/GeneralSearch.aspx

Now thats a different perspective a rebadged Samsung or LG!....but i don't see any of the top end companies like Denon, Pioneer etc doing that for fear of a massacre by their fan base....but hey i have seen stranger things.

Interesting to point out that Oppo might provide a universal player in the new year...now this could definitely be used as a clone by other manufacturers...

Oppo? Now that's interesting.
Denons' head of product development said they were indeed going to put out a dual format player.

I really do not see this as a format war. It should be a race to make the first/best dual format player. If Tosh made a flawless Dual Format... Who would buy Blu Ray?
If Sony... and they could really use this now... made a flawless Dual Format who would buy a HD DVD player? My mac burns both DVR+ and - ... I don't care, It also can boot into Vista if I choose... Time is precious make the right choice, when the precious choice is the right time!

And while I am fairly lucid and reasonable can anyone tell me why we do not have a "space race" to make a car that runs on something other than oil?

I am tired of putting 2-3 Hi-Def movies in my tank every fill up!

And while I am fairly lucid and reasonable can anyone tell me why we do not have a "space race" to make a car that runs on something other than oil?

I am tired of putting 2-3 Hi-Def movies in my tank every fill up!

Couldn't have said it better myself.


I myself really don't care who puts out a dual format player as long as the damn thing works correctly. I was all ready to buy the Samsung 5000 right away and I'm glad I didn't. What a waste of a grand that would have been.

Better yet I would like to see Universal Studios and Paramount go neutral and release in BLU-RAY. Then there would be no need to own a dual format player if BLU-RAY had 100% studio support.

Well, the same can be said about the BD-only studios, if they'd go neutral the problem would be solved! Actually, i've wanted for a long time that all the movie studios should be neutral, let the consumers choose!

It's Going To Be Sharp

It's Going To Be Sharp

Might now be all irrelevant with Apple and Warner Bros going Blu-ray exclusive.

How long will Universal and Paramount hold out now?...At least 2 years...so maybe 2 years of universal players and thats it with the next dual players being LG and Samsung clones?

Might now be all irrelevant with Apple and Warner Bros going Blu-ray exclusive.

How long will Universal and Paramount hold out now?...At least 2 years...so maybe 2 years of universal players and thats it with the next dual players being LG and Samsung clones?


See here's where I think the good news is. If Toshiba throws in the towel, they now have to start making blu-ray players? What way to separate yourself from the competition than to have a blu-ray player than can also play HD DVDs as a bonus?

In 2-3 years the technology will be cheap enough where there are many players flooding the market. There has to be a way to differentiate yourself from others. Even if the dual player dies for a while, it will come back via Toshiba or other companies wanting to distinguish themselves. Okay, it will be higher cost, but when blu-ray players are 80 bucks, i'm sure you can get the dual player for around 200.