Hey- thanks for all the advice here- I narrowed things down to the 5084, the Panny and the 5080. I went in store, and despite the 720p, I was blown away with the blacks.

So I got it the week before Christmas, hid it downstairs, and ran the break in disk solid. Brought it upstairs Christmas morning, and even my wife noticed a difference- she really liked it. So fa, so good.

But I just saw something that gives me pause about this being a great monitor. Not sure wha it is called, but I think it is "banding." I see it a LOT in skys of blue- or in sunsets. It is something that looks really digital to me. And I do NOT like it.

I saw it tonight in Star Wars 2. I figure most of you will know this film. Second shot of the film proper is a reverse angle of the Senators ship coming into the planet, and you can see the "atmosphere" of the planet in a greyish band or two. I saw it REALLY strong there.

So, is this because it was a 480i source, or I have something configured wrong, or what.

My 5080 is set up pretty close to D-Nice's recommendations... I went down on the color a bit, and I have black levels down a tiny bit more, too. NO DRE and sharpness.

Playing through a Panny 10A Blue Ray player, HDMI.

Not sure what else I should tell you, just let me know if I can most any other info!

Thanks!

Dave

Can you tell your player to output 480p? or 1080p instead of 480i for regular DVD's?

edit: one more thing, what you're seeing is not due to a lack of resolution on the tv's part. It could be the tv processing (seems unlikely) or more than likely the source.

Thanks for the help- I have it set to out 720p. Since it is native, I thought that best.

Thanks for the help- I have it set to out 720p. Since it is native, I thought that best.

Well I would say try 480p and 1080p and see if there are difference...although I find it odd that on 720p you're seeing the banding like that. Are you connected via HDMI? Do you have another tv in the house with a regular dvd player hooked up that will allow you to evaluate the same scene? I know a LOT of people that get very picky on their new set and because they're looking for problems and usually the sets are bigger they notice more source material flaws. Might be worth checking out on another reasonably sized tv to see if its a product of the disc or in fact something between your player, cabling or tv?

First off, looks like I lied- the BD10A is set to out 1080p (and the 5080 confirms this)

Watched it back, there is definite "banding" (is that the right word?)- most noticeable on the right side of the screen; 5-6 bands. Most annoying is that 2/3 of the way through the scene, the dark grey makes an instant jump to black across the screen- like the color hit a threshold and just goes black.

I watched it upstairs on a Pio Laser/DVD combo on a CTR, did NOT see it here. But that screen is darker.

In defense of the 5080, one big improvement I noticed was in small, fast motion. I see it a lot with like waves or water running, where the screen turns into a bunch of blocks. (WHat is that called)

Anyway, near the beginning of Planet Earth disk 1, there is an overhead shot of something like a million cranes migrating over Chesapeak Bay (?)- my old TV ( a Sony Grand Wega III) just tore that up. The Pio holds strong on that shot!

Micro or Macro blocking is what it sounds like you're describing...

You may try turning the output on the bluray player to 480p for standard def stuff...also how are you connected? HDMI?

I think this is odd and I dont think you'll find less banding in a cheaper panasonic or samsung set.

I was just surprised to see it at all!

I will run a check at 480p.

Yes, it is HDMI connected.

I was just surprised to see it at all!

I will run a check at 480p.

Yes, it is HDMI connected.

Odd, it almost sounds like the signal is compressed or something...try it at 480p and let the TV handle the up conversion. If that doesn't fix it hopefully someone else will have a suggestion for you.

Could it be false contouring? From Cnet's HDTV glossary, False Contouring: "An artifact common to fixed-pixel displays that produces splotchy, distinct sections in what should be gradual gradations of color or shadows. Also referred to as solarization and posterization."

Here is a thread on false contouring and the 5080:
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=959888

Unfortunately, there doesn't seem to be any suggested solution in that thread. What would be ideal is a setting where false contouring is minimized (if that exists).

I guess false counturing is it!

I tryed to think of other things that might show this, and lucky for me, I JUST bought 2001 in BluRay. The opening shot, sure enough, there is it!

http://www.animatedword.com/2001.JPG

This picture is not exact, but it shows what I am talking about.

This is a 1080p source, through HDMI.

This is definitely false contouring. All digital displays I've seen do this to some degree.

Yeah thats false contouring...I haven't seen a flat panel set that doesn't do it though. That digipic makes it visible, its probably worse in person is it not?

What exactly is false contouring? Can you return it? Defects like these will make me buy from BestBuy(30 day return policy). They will match an online price as well(I asked them today, they said that they would).

Yeah thats false contouring...I haven't seen a flat panel set that doesn't do it though. That digipic makes it visible, its probably worse in person is it not?

Yes and no. The banding is more pronounced in this picture, but there is less of it than in real life. In real ife, I would say there are 10 or so distinct bands of color... this picture shows 3-4 or so. (The camera is a Nikon 200, so it is not too crappy a camera).

So, is there anything I can do to lessen this effect? I know you say all plasmas will do this, does the Pio do it less, or more than any others?

I just HATE that, it looks so, uh, digital!

What exactly is false contouring? Can you return it? Defects like these will make me buy from BestBuy(30 day return policy). They will match an online price as well(I asked them today, they said that they would).

I don't think this is a defect. This is a limitation of the display's bit depth for processing/displaying colors. You will find this type of artifact on any material which shows color gradients. The most frequent offenders are commercials.

Discrete gradations of color are one of the few areas where my previous CRT set was better than my 5080. Unfortunately, every plasma and LCD I've seen does the same thing. Perhaps there are some models that have a way around it, akin to going from 16-bit color to 32-bit color on a computer monitor?

On the plus side, my 5080 has no banding and no uneven aspect to full field white or color fields at all. This is a huge improvement over my CRT set and some LCDs I've seen, too.

You got the mismark deal at BB too, right? Pretty hard to return it, except for a replacement;-) If you find this effect to be bothersome, be very careful with any LCD or plasma you consider and make sure to check out the same material before you buy it.

Discrete gradations of color are one of the few areas where my previous CRT set was better than my 5080. Unfortunately, every plasma and LCD I've seen does the same thing. Perhaps there are some models that have a way around it, akin to going from 16-bit color to 32-bit color on a computer monitor?

Analog displays have their strengths, and displaying color gradients is definitely one of them.

Carfac in my experience the Pioneer is one of the best at minimizing these negative effects. My first hand experience on friends' panasonic and samsung sets and a few LCD sets is that they all do it to some degree. Samsung seems to be worse, could have been the material being viewed, but I remember distinctly noticing it on a 5064.

I was playing around, and I saw DRE was at Low. I turned it to off, and got a big improvement. Still there, but MUCH better. YMMV.

I was playing around, and I saw DRE was at Low. I turned it to off, and got a big improvement. Still there, but MUCH better. YMMV.

Yeah I think you want DRE off. Have you looked at the DNice settings thread? If not you might check it out, while each panel typically requires some sort of minor adjustments it will give you a good baseline and I believe all that extra stuff is turned off if I remember right.

My Panny plasma does this too. I don't like either, but all plasmas do it.

Yeah I think you want DRE off. Have you looked at the DNice settings thread? If not you might check it out, while each panel typically requires some sort of minor adjustments it will give you a good baseline and I believe all that extra stuff is turned off if I remember right.

Thanks 6Speed- that was where I started was his (D-Nices) settings. I played the TNX thing on the Star Wars disk that started this all, and made some minor adjustments there. I have AVIA somewhere- I think I lent it to a friend and have not seen it since!

FWIW, D-Nice DOES have DRE set Low, which is why I was set at that to start with.

Running the THX set up was my first attempt to stray from DNICE and get it more "perfect"- for instance, I still think the color is a bit hot, and I went from DNices -2 to -7!

Thanks 6Speed- that was where I started was his (D-Nices) settings. I played the TNX thing on the Star Wars disk that started this all, and made some minor adjustments there. I have AVIA somewhere- I think I lent it to a friend and have not seen it since!

FWIW, D-Nice DOES have DRE set Low, which is why I was set at that to start with.

Running the THX set up was my first attempt to stray from DNICE and get it more "perfect"- for instance, I still think the color is a bit hot, and I went from DNices -2 to -7!

:cool:


Well is it more tolerable now?

Yes, MUCH softer. I can still see some (mainly because I am looking HARD), but the DRE to off does it for me. I am in the Danube Waltz sequence now- breathtaking!

Be very careful about returning the 5080 due to false contouring. In my experience the Pioneers exhibit this less than any other digital display I've had the opportunity to play with.

The Samsung 5054 makes an effort to conceal it with dithering. ick...

Be very careful about returning the 5080 due to false contouring. In my experience the Pioneers exhibit this less than any other digital display I've had the opportunity to play with.

The Samsung 5054 makes an effort to conceal it with dithering. ick...

Interesting the 5064 I saw had distinct false contouring, again could be a difference of material and yeah dithering was bad on that set as well.

Every set including mine has it, some worse than others. By the way, a Pioneer 5080 I saw was clearly worse than the Samsung 5084.

Be very careful about returning the 5080 due to false contouring. In my experience the Pioneers exhibit this less than any other digital display I've had the opportunity to play with.

The Samsung 5054 makes an effort to conceal it with dithering. ick...

Driving me nuts on my otherwise perfect 5084 :mad: