Does anybody have more info on this?

Electronics maker Pioneer has unveiled what it says is the world's thinnest TV at only 9mm thick

Check it out here:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediaselector/check/player/nol/newsid_7160000/newsid_7164800?redirect=7164819.stm&news=1&bbram=1&nbwm=1&nbram=1&bbwm=1&asb=1

Later edit: I have a suspicion that this is not a Pioneer, but is a Sharp.

Wow, is that plasma too?

if that is a 9g set, i am taking a LONG hiatus from the plasma forums, because i really don't want to try and have to sell my kuro... :eek:

That's amazing if its plasma.

maybe thats a pio laser set? Thats uber thin.

Is this video available anywhere else, or for download? I'm on a mac and it says I don't have the appropriate plugins. I don't feel like hunting down a bunch of codecs.

This is great news. As soon as Panasonic and Samsung and other manufacturer's try to catch up with picture quality, then Pioneer unveils a 60" prototype that weighs under 60 lbs (estimation). Amazing stuff!

Chris

Is this video available anywhere else, or for download? I'm on a mac and it says I don't have the appropriate plugins. I don't feel like hunting down a bunch of codecs.

i used realplayer on my macbook without any problems... easy enough to download it from their site...

Somehow, I doubt that this is a Pioneer.

My guess is that it's a Sharp.

Looks impressive. From the video, that flat panel seems to be using emissive tech. Either Plasma or OLED? Also, Sharp had invested in Pioneer recently; it is possible that Sharp is involved in this.

Yes this can be Pioneer. They have the R&D team to provide this prototype to the public. Every manufacturer is trying to gain market leverage at each other. This is possible that Pioneer consulted Sharp with their ideas, but was easily designed by Pioneer's team.

Chris

Is this video available anywhere else, or for download? I'm on a mac and it says I don't have the appropriate plugins. I don't feel like hunting down a bunch of codecs.


Go here www.flip4mac.com and download the free WMV components for Quicktime, then you can use your QT player to view Windows Media.:)

It works better than the old WMP for Mac ever did.

Video is now on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TJ3tnYnwS0&feature=user

Hard to believe that would be plasma. Probably OLED or LED LCD.

CES needs to hurry up and get here :P

There's was an article awhile back talking about how OLED will be extremely cheap for consumers. It later went on to explain how it could be produced very easily in many sizes. I don't have the article, but this may be what we've been hearing about. Here's some pictures of OLED, yes it's a few months old, but it's very thin. http://www.engadget.com/2007/04/12/sony-1-000-000-1-oled-tv-on-sale-in-2007/
* Vibrant colors
* High contrast
* Excellent grayscale
* Full-motion video
* Wide viewing angles from all directions
* A wide range of pixel sizes
* Low power consumption
* Low operating voltages
* Wide operating temperature range
* Long operating lifetime
* A thin and lightweight form factor
* Cost-effective manufacturability

Plasma, 10 lumen tech.....I will not say anything else.

can't see it being a 60" oled... didn't someone just exhibit the largest one yet ever developed at around 30"? i don't recall exactly...

Plasma, 10 lumen tech.....I will not say anything else.

oh man...

there may be a 150fd for sale soon... :)

There's was an article awhile back talking about how OLED will be extremely cheap for consumers.

It will be eventually, but probably not for several years. When the first worthwhile sets come out in the US (i.e. 40" +) in maybe 2010 they will be ridiculously expensive.

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/oled-tv/samsung-oled-product-roadmap-shows-40+inch-tvs-in-2010-316353.php

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2007/10/oledtvs.jpg

The BBC video is also available on Youtube:

http://youtube.com/watch?v=2TJ3tnYnwS0

Plasma, 10 lumen tech.....I will not say anything else.

I've read that 10 lumen tech will be phased in over the next 3 to 4 production years?

wow, if this is plasma, this is very exciting indeed...perhaps even the next model year of the Kuros?! Is that too much to hope for?

Maybe its one of these?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/new-screens/samsungs-40+inch-tft+lcd-is-just-one-centimeter-thick-313357.php

Go here www.flip4mac.com and download the free WMV components for Quicktime, then you can use your QT player to view Windows Media.:)

It works better than the old WMP for Mac ever did.

Video is now on YouTube at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TJ3tnYnwS0&feature=user

Great, thanks! :)

Maybe its one of these?

http://gizmodo.com/gadgets/new-screens/samsungs-40+inch-tft+lcd-is-just-one-centimeter-thick-313357.php

that looks good... the screen is pretty cool too... :p

the_gunner, that's exactly the article. Thanks.

This is great news. As soon as Panasonic and Samsung and other manufacturer's try to catch up with picture quality, then Pioneer unveils a 60" prototype that weighs under 60 lbs (estimation). Amazing stuff!

Chris

I don't know about Panasonic but I have read at a few places including here, that Samsung has been doing heavy research using oled.

Info on OLED:

http://docinthemachine.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/oled-cell.gif
http://docinthemachine.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2007/01/oled-process.gif

Chris

Plasma, 10 lumen tech.....I will not say anything else.

Nice try, but I don't plan on replacing my 4-month old Pro-150FD until SED comes out... when is that again? :)

PS - Nice Sharp TV on that video.

Nice try, but I don't plan on replacing my 4-month old Pro-150FD until SED comes out... when is that again? :)

PS - Nice Sharp TV on that video.Since when does Sharp make plasma TVs? I guess you guys forgot that couple of months ago, Panasonic also showed a lab engineering prototype of a superthin plasma. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

Since when does Sharp make plasma TVs? I guess you guys forgot that couple of months ago, Panasonic also showed a lab engineering prototype of a superthin plasma. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

You have to say what you know. You can't leave us like that:mad:.
Please :).

Personally I think the Ultra thin displays are cool and everything, but what I want is a LARGER FRIGGIN DISPLAY, LIKE 70" or dam close to it. And ultimate picture quality, something great for movies AND gaming. And a price I can justify spending said amount on. For me no more than $5500-$6000. Do you think it will happen before Im too old to care about it?

Plasma, 10 lumen tech.....I will not say anything else.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/player/nol/newsid_7160000/newsid_7164800/7164819.stm?bw=bb&mp=wm&asb=1&news=1&ms3=54&ms_javascript=true&bbcws=2


The BBC video site says that it is a Pioneer display, so why are some people guessing that it must be some other brand. I think the BBC is in the best position to state who showed the panel.

Any idea if Pioneer will bring a demo of it to CES?

Thread too exciting to let die.Its only 7 days away until we find out what this is all about.If we could only get D-Nice to just let out a few more things he knows.

Guys, for plasma to survive they need to increase the lumens to compete with LCD's. I am one of those who would buy a Kuro if they were brighter. Plasma makers need to address this issue, i say issue because many people don't walk out of Best Buy or Circuit City with a plasma because of this. Forget about making plasmas thinner, prettier, or bigger, if they don't increase the brightness there won't be a future for plasma. I know plasmas in the home are closer in brightness to LCD's, but the general public goes with first impressions, they see plasma being dimmer in the store they bypass them for LCD's. If the general public turns away then nothing will save plasma.

Guys, for plasma to survive they need to increase the lumens to compete with LCD's. I am one of those who would buy a Kuro if they were brighter. Plasma makers need to address this issue, i say issue because many people don't walk out of Best Buy or Circuit City with a plasma because of this. Forget about making plasmas thinner, prettier, or bigger, if they don't increase the brightness there won't be a future for plasma. I know plasmas in the home are closer in brightness to LCD's, but the general public goes with first impressions, they see plasma being dimmer in the store they bypass them for LCD's. If the general public turns away then nothing will save plasma.
Thanks for the laugh :D

lipcrkr...:D

This is just another "proof of concept" display, right?

I really hate that manufacturers do this. It's basically saying "yeah, we know our current products are ****, hold off another few years."

I wish someone would hurry up and deliver on flat panel with great black levels. (if it is 10 lumen/watt, I'm assuming they've made big improvements there)

Looks exactly like Sharp LED LCD prototype from CEATEC. This makes total sense in light of recent announcement of Sharp-Pioneer deal. Sharp's prototype also had plasma-like viewing angle.

Looks exactly like Sharp LED LCD prototype from CEATEC. This makes total sense in light of recent announcement of Sharp-Pioneer deal. Sharp's prototype also had plasma-like viewing angle.
Wasn't that 29mm thick though? Looked slightly different and clearly said Sharp on the front too:

http://www.hdtvtest.co.uk/news/2007/09/03/sharp-lc42xl2e-lc42x20e/

Wasn't that 29mm thick though?
29mm at the center of the panel, 20mm elsewhere.

whoa :eek:

This is just another "proof of concept" display, right?

I really hate that manufacturers do this. It's basically saying "yeah, we know our current products are ****, hold off another few years."

I wish someone would hurry up and deliver on flat panel with great black levels. (if it is 10 lumen/watt, I'm assuming they've made big improvements there)


Yeah, but the manufacturers that do this typically arent Pioneer...


Sony, Sharp, Matsushita, Samsung yes, but the last proof of concept panel Pioneer did was the Kuro Prototype in october 2006 at CEATEC JAPAN 2006

This is just another "proof of concept" display, right?

I really hate that manufacturers do this. It's basically saying "yeah, we know our current products are ****, hold off another few years."

I wish someone would hurry up and deliver on flat panel with great black levels. (if it is 10 lumen/watt, I'm assuming they've made big improvements there)

Well, I'm not sure what to make of your post. No rational person believes that anything made is perfect. There will always be areas where improvements can be made.
Are you saying companies should not provide products (that may be very good) because they know they aren't as good as they should be?

Well, I'm not sure what to make of your post. No rational person believes that anything made is perfect. There will always be areas where improvements can be made.
Are you saying companies should not provide products (that may be very good) because they know they aren't as good as they should be?
I'm saying that I hate when companies show off products that at years away.

Whatever happened to the 1,000,000:1 CR LCD sharp were showing off years ago? SED has had various iterations shown and it looks unlikely that it'll ever happen now, if not for a number of years. Sony showed off FED with no plans to start producing them until 2009 if I remember correctly etc.

I don't see why manufacturers show off things like that so far in advance. It just shows that they already have the technology to improve the displays substantially, so why buy anything now?

Pioneer typically don't show off their technology too far in advance though, so who knows what this is. I'd love it if it was their 2008 range, but that seems very unlikely.


It just annoys me that you basically can't get a decent CRT any more, and nothing has come along that's a worthwhile replacement for them yet if you're viewing in a darkened room. Despite that, manufacturers have been showing off products that will look good in darkened rooms, but won't hit the market for years.

Trade shows generally use products that are engineering prototypes. That often means they are labor intensive and therefore very expensive.
It's meant to really demonstrate what is possible once mass production (and therefore lower cost) issues are resolved.

This is great news. As soon as Panasonic and Samsung and other manufacturer's try to catch up with picture quality, then Pioneer unveils a 60" prototype that weighs under 60 lbs (estimation). Amazing stuff!

Chris

By the way, here is one of articles about Sammy's OLED development.

http://www.about-electronics.eu/2007/12/13/samsung-develops-tvs-with-biggest-dream-displays/

Thursday, December 13, 2007 - 5:13 (GMT+99)

Samsung develops TVs with biggest “Dream Displays”
Filed under: TV & HDTV | by :luk |

The Korea Times: Samsung Electronics plans to showcase a next-generation high-definition TV using a 31-inch active-matrix organic light-emitting diodes (AM OLED) display at the upcoming international consumer electronics fair.

If Samsung releases the TV set on schedule, the company would become the first consumer electronics company to commercialize the biggest OLED TV.

I guess Dnice was right as usual :) Click the link below for the video and more info.. http://gizmodo.com/339824/pioneer-dropping-worlds-thinnest-plasma-hdtv-at-ces-2008

I guess Dnice was right as usual :) Click the link below for the video and more info.. http://gizmodo.com/339824/pioneer-dropping-worlds-thinnest-plasma-hdtv-at-ces-2008

I've seen this tv on a previous ad online. Amazing, simply amazing. I wonder if it can handle a Wii controller as well as the existing thin Sharp Aquos sets. :rolleyes:

There's already an existing thread about this display:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=966041

Yeah, i know but there was a lot of speculation on the other thread. People even said it was a LCD panel but now it's confirmed. Pioneer once again has raised the bar in the PDP market. Or should i say thinned the bar :)

Think it will help them turn a profit? I am all for radically advanced Pioneers though, as that might make some of their other offerings more affordable.

When would these new thin Pioneers be coming?

When would these new thin Pioneers be coming?

Well i am hoping for Q3 or 4 of this year but Dnice probably knows that answer.

Yes thin is cool but what about no buzz,no blobs and no dead pixels and a drop in power consumption and a 2-way cable card slot.Now if all that is part of new thin than I am a definite buyer

Since when does Sharp make plasma TVs? I guess you guys forgot that couple of months ago, Panasonic also showed a lab engineering prototype of a superthin plasma. Tisk, tisk, tisk.

:rolleyes: Sharp makes LCDs yes and it's been reported that Pioneer teamed up with Sharp to make LCD TVs... tsk, tsk, tsk.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Sharp is the biggest shareholder (15% IIRC) of Pioneer since December (Pio got 1% in Sharp in return).

Think it will help them turn a profit? I am all for radically advanced Pioneers though, as that might make some of their other offerings more affordable.

I doubt it unless those old Japanese f*rts learn something about pricing practices... :D

Well i am hoping for Q3 or 4 of this year but Dnice probably knows that answer.

The sooner they arrive the better - Pioneer is bleeding money and apparently too stupid and/or arrogant to recognize they are not exceptional at all or at least a lot less than their pricing suggest they think...

Is 65" the biggest realistically priced display right now? I would hang that new 70" Sony RPTV if they make it.

Yes thin is cool but what about no buzz,no blobs and no dead pixels and a drop in power consumption and a 2-way cable card slot.Now if all that is part of new thin than I am a definite buyer
If this is 10 lumen tech (as D-Nice hinted) then there'll be a *massive* drop in power consumption (much lower than any LCD on the market). In the same moment any buzzing should be gone, because the buzz is caused by the power circuits, IIRC. Not sure what you mean with blobs. Dead pixels can occur with any flat panel technology including Plasma, LCD, OLED, SED etc...

I doubt it unless those old Japanese f*rts learn something about pricing practices... :D

:rolleyes: Sharp makes LCDs yes and it's been reported that Pioneer teamed up with Sharp to make LCD TVs... tsk, tsk, tsk.

EDIT: I forgot to mention that Sharp is the biggest shareholder (15% IIRC) of Pioneer since December (Pio got 1% in Sharp in return).

The sooner they arrive the better - Pioneer is bleeding money and apparently too stupid and/or arrogant to recognize they are not exceptional at all or at least a lot less than their pricing suggest they think...

Shut up. I have seen you in numerous threads ranting and raving. What does any of this have to do with the thread topic. The funny thing is I have not seen a lot of people call you on on your BS. I don't know if you have an agenda or just a dumb fan boy. If you have a problem with Pioneers business practices well why don't you go and offer your "Professional" consulting services. I am sure they would jump at the opportunity!! Overall, their consumer line for PDP's is doing good. They are bleeding in some other divisions but why should you care.

see header.:D no mod #s listed. if already mentioned in this thread, my apologies. i realize this a pdp thread.

ps-tpv mag-RIP !

whatever it is, it must be a prototype that isn't close to production given that the entire back has no connections or other indications that it is a ready to go consumer product as opposed to a proof of concept. Should be cool to see but I like demos of things we'll get within a month or two.

whatever it is, it must be a prototype that isn't close to production given that the entire back has no connections or other indications that it is a ready to go consumer product as opposed to a proof of concept.

It could be either wireless or have connections via that fairly large panel in back (perhaps connected via wires through the piping holding it up, a la speaker wire routed through a speaker stand).

if that is a 9g set, i am taking a LONG hiatus from the plasma forums, because i really don't want to try and have to sell my kuro... :eek:

Sell now before the rush begins. Then you'll be all set.

D-Nice must be having a great laugh at all of us scrambling in this thread to figure out what pioneer is up to.Only a few days to CES so hang in.Blobs were a big thing here a few months ago appearing on Kuro screens but havent heard much on this issue in awhile.Im so glad i waited out 8g for whats coming.

It just annoys me that you basically can't get a decent CRT any more, and nothing has come along that's a worthwhile replacement for them yet if you're viewing in a darkened room. Despite that, manufacturers have been showing off products that will look good in darkened rooms, but won't hit the market for years.

One word .. Kuro.

That is some cool s$#%,

I agree the video sure does make it look like the sharp LCD, and also alot thicker than 9mm (unless it is a tiny display like the XEL-1). Glad to hear it is a pioneer though. While thinness may not impress videophiles wanting performance leaps, a lightweight thin 60" Kuro quality or better display sure would interest a lot of people. I hope my current wall mount will still work :)

There's already an existing thread about this display:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=966041



http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7135/eyebrow1qb.gif

Sign that RandyWalters has been on the computer far too long.

http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7135/eyebrow1qb.gif

Or a loop in the space-time continuum. :)

Larry

That is amazing...

I'd be really interested if it can display the same quality (and all the bells and whistles) or better as the current Elites AND have a bigger display. I really need something at least 70 inches and 75" to 80" would even be better.

It's been rumored for some time that 75" would be the new size this year, though I guess we all will know soon.

To me, the strongest indicator that this (or something) big will be introduced this year by Pioneer is how little D-Nice is saying right now. I hope.....

Does D-Nice work for Pioneer?

If my memory serves me well, no. (That's an answer that would have made Ollie North proud.) I think he has good connections inside Pioneer and Panasonic. He has been a reliable predictor of what's coming down the road - though often constrained by loyalty to his contacts.

Just a few more days...

Pioneer's CES 2008 Press Release is up in their press room. It's dated 1/6 but is up now. They are "ending the debate on contrast ratio" in addition to displaying this ultra thin plasma...

excerpt from the press release (sorry I can't add a link until my 3rd post :))" The extreme contrast concept will challenge the contrast ratio debate by producing the industry’s first plasma that is absolute black with no measurable light emitting from the television. At the same time, Pioneer is previewing an advanced design concept that is the world’s thinnest 50-inch display at only nine millimeters (mm) thin." Perhaps D-Nice will be able to comment now...

would love to hear from D-Nice when these concepts panels are scheduled for production

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Announces+KURO+Flat+Panel+Technology+Concepts+That+W ill+End+the+Contrast+Ratio+Discussion+and+Show+an+Ultra+Thin +9MM+Thick+Display

From the PR...

"Black encompasses the entire color spectrum and is produced in the absence of light. By nature, televisions produce luminance (light) and this dilutes black and color. That is why it is so important that Pioneer can achieve absolute black in the Project KURO extreme contrast concept. The display is so black that even when it is on with no image displayed, the television is invisible when you walk into a completely dark room. It has a contrast ratio that is literally beyond measurement, rendering the debate of contrast ratio irrelevant and providing the consumer a rich picture filled with vibrant penetrating color."

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Announces+KURO+Flat+Panel+Technology+Concepts+That+W ill+End+the+Contrast+Ratio+Discussion+and+Show+an+Ultra+Thin +9MM+Thick+Display:)

:)


D-Nice,

This is from the PR...

"These fully-operational concept televisions will not be commercially-available in 2008."

Does that mean just the 9mm model or the "absolute black" plasma too?

Nevermind, I think I see the answer in the quote I already posted...

"absolute black in the Project KURO extreme contrast concept"

Blah... seems like they love yanking people's chains:

"These fully-operational concept televisions will not be commercially-available in 2008."

I'm pretty satisfied with the current Kuro blacks. I think the more important
thing is the (possible?) 10-lumen tech that was mentioned earlier in the thread
by D-Nice. It would really be a shot in the arm for plasma in general if true.

I took this to mean 10 lumen/watt tech has been achieved in the concept panel...

"Thanks to the self emitting principle of plasma, we were able to crack the code on plasma luminance.Pioneer technology has advanced to the point where we have achieved virtually zero idling luminance in more than six million cells, previously thought to be impossible."

that and the fact that the ultra thin panel only weighs 41 lbs! sounds like they are still working on combining the two concepts into one panel, but wanted to show both concepts. IMO that's a good move since recent articles (and the Panasonic, Canon, Hitachi deal) have suggested to investors that plasma is a dying technology that will never be able to compete with LCD.

Sweet, I was hoping they would use the new "selective reset" technology in the 9G's. Individually resetting pixels means it is possible to have zero background luminence.

"These fully-operational concept televisions will not be commercially-available in 2008."


:mad:

Sweet, I was hoping they would use the new "selective reset" technology in the 9G's. Individually resetting pixels means it is possible to have zero background luminence.I would say "semi-sweet" :), since it seems that it will be perhaps 10G (or later) before it's fully realized in production.


ron

Wonder how many home mortgages one is going to have to tkae out to afford this?

I would say "semi-sweet" :), since it seems that it will be perhaps 10G (or later) before it's fully realized in production.


ronOh well, I wonder what 9G will offer?

Makes me at ease buying a Pio now that it won't be eclipsed by the new models so soon.

Yeah, me too. I don't know whether to be disappointed or glad that I can now finally buy my Kuro.

2011 should be a great year to buy a tv :)

10 lumen tech will come in the 10G Pioneers. Pioneer may make a big deal about due to the "10".

Xrox, that algorithm that we have been chatting about for the past few months can be implemented with the current Kuro tech....to a certain extent. Whether Pioneer will add it to the 9G feature list is, well........an interesting thought.

xrox,

Thought the 1080P plasmas (at least the FHD-1) had 2 million pixels. Would you assume the concept panel has six million pixels based on this statement "...Pioneer technology has advanced to the point where we have achieved virtually zero idling luminance in more than six million cells."? Would that allow for 3240P?

Thanks!

Sweet, I was hoping they would use the new "selective reset" technology in the 9G's. Individually resetting pixels means it is possible to have zero background luminence.Yep, and LCD makers will not be able to compete until they can dim (with multiple bits) on a per pixel level....period. 10 lumen tech's current contender is OLED.

"These fully-operational concept televisions will not be commercially-available in 2008."

Bah! OK - so tell me what will be commercially available in 2008 - I'm not waiting on this vaporware to materialize.

Maybe Panasonic will announce something more concrete. . .

xrox,

Thought the 1080P plasmas (at least the FHD-1) had 2 million pixels. Would you assume the concept panel has six million pixels based on this statement "...Pioneer technology has advanced to the point where we have achieved virtually zero idling luminance in more than six million cells."? Would that allow for 3240P?

Thanks!2 million x RGB = 6 million

thanks, D-nice. that makes perfect sense

Unbelievably awesome Pio sets to come, revolutionary - and will shut the LCD competition hard.

Yet, I still can't wait to buy my 5080HD :D

Just waiting for the Canadian msrp do drop a $1000 to match the US msrp!!! :mad:

D-Nice,

Any plans on the part of Pioneer to include wireless HDMI in the 10G panels?

Thx!

D-Nice,

Any plans on the part of Pioneer to include wireless HDMI in the 10G panels?

Thx!

A 9 mm thick panel with absolute blacks, 10 lumens, and no wires (other than power I suppose)? Stop it, sprungdog - you're making me drool! Next thing you'll be asking is whether it's available in 70 or 75 inch!

A 9 mm thick panel with absolute blacks, 10 lumens, and no wires (other than power I suppose)? Stop it, sprungdog - you're making me drool! Next thing you'll be asking is whether it's available in 70 or 75 inch!

probably. . . for a mere $500/inch;)

i'm lobbying hard for a 60" with my wife, but if the 75" weighs less than 50lbs I might have a shot at it. :D

10th St.,

Haven't you heard? The whole point of 10 lumen tech is that the panels are much cheaper to make...;)

So, D-Nice, will we have at least 5-lumen technology in the 9Gs (otherwise next generation willl be dissapointing for me I have to admit).:confused:

10th St.,

Haven't you heard? The whole point of 10 lumen tech is that the panels are much cheaper to make...;)


Maybe cheaper to make, but Pioneer hasn't exactly been the leader in downward pressure on prices:rolleyes:

Shut up. I have seen you in numerous threads ranting and raving. What does any of this have to do with the thread topic. The funny thing is I have not seen a lot of people call you on on your BS. I don't know if you have an agenda or just a dumb fan boy. If you have a problem with Pioneers business practices well why don't you go and offer your "Professional" consulting services. I am sure they would jump at the opportunity!!


Just reported you for this adhom attack.
Something with substance, please.


Overall, their consumer line for PDP's is doing good. They are bleeding in some other divisions but why should you care.

Umm no, it's vica versa. Try reading the linked quarterly report again...

Maybe cheaper to make, but Pioneer hasn't exactly been the leader in downward pressure on prices:rolleyes:

:cool::D

Just reported you for this adhom attack.
Something with substance, please.



You want substance, try practicing what you preach. You are always attacking others by name. You have been badgering D-Nice, and belittling him for a long time on this forum.

Now here is something of substance for you:

Ad-hominen attack is the correct term.

I read somewhere that 10 lumen tech panels. Run cool and reduce power consumption by 50%. Can anybody comment on this? I also wonder if Panasonic or Samsung will be showing off a thin PDP like Pioneer & Hitachi..

So Pioneer has teased us. But will they improve on the black levels from the current Kuro? I still want more, but the blacks levels are at about the point to where I'm about more concerned with a brighter image than the black levels. It soulds like 10 lumens will improve on this.

Hopefully motion can be improved on as well. Not sure of the technical term I'm looking for but I see trails behind moving objects from time to time.

Sign that RandyWalters has been on the computer far too long.

http://img200.exs.cx/img200/7135/eyebrow1qb.gif

At first I thought the same thing as you. Then I noticed that his comment was originally part of another thread and subsequently merged into this one. sigh ... I spent way too much time on these boards :)

10 lumen tech will come in the 10G Pioneers. Pioneer may make a big deal about due to the "10".

Xrox, that algorithm that we have been chatting about for the past few months can be implemented with the current Kuro tech....to a certain extent. Whether Pioneer will add it to the 9G feature list is, well........an interesting thought.That is good to hear. Do you know if the ultra thin and light prototype is a type of tube/fibre based display or is it cell based?

Cheers

I wish they would give us some indication on how far off this is. It could be 01/01/09 or 5 years from now for all we know.

Does anyone here have a better idea of how far off it really is? Black level is my main issue with televisions these days (even the Kuros are rubbish) and it would be well worth the wait if it's only a year or so off.

If D-Nice says they will be in their 10G panel...I would assume that would come out in the 3rd quarter of 2009.

I'm not sure I can wait that long to buy my new TV. My current TV is old enough to have been seen in the stone age (pre-1990). I'm hoping that Pioneer will also have some information at this years CES about their 9G panels. I'm hoping that they offer 5-lumen technology this year for improved brightness. If they do...I may be a buyer this year. If they don't, I'll buy a really cheap panel and wait it out for these 10G panels, because from what I've read on the 10-lumen techology, it is going to be a MAJOR leap forward in a lot of ways.

Wow. Pioneer has already yanked the press release (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Announces+KURO+Flat+Panel+Technology+Concepts+That+W ill+End+the+Contrast+Ratio+Discussion+and+Show+an+Ultra+Thin +9MM+Thick+Display) that was on their site until a few hours ago. WTF?!?

Shwiiinnng!!!! Come on CES!:D

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer+Announces+KURO+Flat+Panel+Technology+Concepts+That+W ill+End+the+Contrast+Ratio+Discussion+and+Show+an+Ultra+Thin +9MM+Thick+Display

error 404, page does not exist, the cake is a lie........

error 404, page does not exist, the cake is a lie........The press release was posted in error (early)....and you're calling it a lie???? Wow!

error 404, page does not exist, the cake is a lie........

Someone captured the (early) Press Release page before they took it down and posted the text of the page here (http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6143971&postcount=1). Go back and eat your cake!

so CES press conference is now over and it doesn't sound anything major to report (at least according to engadget).

No, CES starts tomorrow in earnest.
There were a few early press releases and previews to select groups. We haven't seen nearly everything on offer yet.

Some info (same as the leaked Pioneer webpage) from engadget:

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/06/pioneers-project-kuro-the-9mm-thick-infinite-contrast-50-inch/

More live blog info from gizmodo:

http://gizmodo.com/341199/pioneer-press-conference-liveblog

The tv is gorgeous. 41lbs is amazing. Soon we will hang big screens on the wall with a simple screw and anchor :)

More live blog info from gizmodo:

http://gizmodo.com/341199/pioneer-press-conference-liveblog

To quote Paris Hilton... "That's hot!"

Is Pioneer going to announce any real products at CES, you know, like stuff you can actually buy? All these prototypes and concept sets are fine but I'd like to know what updates are coming this year, not in 2009/2010.

Blah... seems like they love yanking people's chains:

"These fully-operational concept televisions will not be commercially-available in 2008."

I'm pretty satisfied with the current Kuro blacks. I think the more important
thing is the (possible?) 10-lumen tech that was mentioned earlier in the thread
by D-Nice. It would really be a shot in the arm for plasma in general if true.

I could care less about supper thin but give me an abosolute black with 10 lumen technology plasma at 75 inches and I will be pulling the tigger as soon as it is available ( my PRO-150FD can find a home in the bedroom :-)

I could care less about supper thin but give me an abosolute black with 10 lumen technology plasma at 75 inches and I will be pulling the tigger as soon as it is available ( my PRO-150FD can find a home in the bedroom :-)

Amen brother!! :D

- Rich

so it's a new "50" " form factor. I guess i suddenly dont need to worry if i cant go bigger than 42" about what i get now then.

The tv is gorgeous. 41lbs is amazing. Soon we will hang big screens on the wall with a simple screw and anchor :)

I know! If you're very still, you can hear the good folks at Sanus grinding their teeth!

http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/01/smallish_2174624644_c1d9fcd75f_o.jpg http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/01/smallish_2173836941_41b6d5c673_o.jpg http://gizmodo.com/assets/images/gallery/4/2008/01/smallish_2173837025_060f0ae6d7_o.jpg

http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/KuroThin3600.jpg

Project Kuro vs the Iphone.http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/iphone2wtmk.jpg

8th-gen Pioneer plasma vs Project Kuro.:eek:
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/KuroDeepBlack600.jpg

More contrast battle pics here:http://gizmodo.com/341434/battlemodo-pioneer-super+black-kuro-concept-duels-best-tv-ever-and-wins

I am ready to trade mine in on a 75 inch one right now...

This is cool and all and I'll definitely consider one when I think about replacing my next TV - but anyone know what they have in store for us this year?

Better whites and lower price from Pioneer are on the top of my wish list for 2008. .otherwise, I'm almost certain to get one of those Panny Pz850's when they come out in a couple of months.

Otherwise - it's the Panny for me and I'll just have to hope Project Kuro materializes when it comes time to replace my CRT.

8th-gen Pioneer plasma vs Project Kuro.:eek:
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/KuroDeepBlack600.jpg



This pic seems way off to me.. Current Kuros blacks dont glow blue that bad do they? Looks like a lcd :mad:

This pic seems way off to me.. Current Kuros blacks dont glow blue that bad do they? Looks like a lcd :mad:

I have to agree - I've seen a lot of the fd110 and it never looked that bright. I actually had a hard time determining whether it was in on an all black field. Of course, this wasn't in a totally dark room. . .

That being said, the current Kuros never looked that bright to me - not even close.

I have to agree - I've seen a lot of the fd110 and it never looked that bright. I actually had a hard time determining whether it was in on an all black field. Of course, this wasn't in a totally dark room. . .

That being said, the current Kuros never looked that bright to me - not even close.
Overexposed camera settings. So it's not quite how it would look in real life, but a real eye opener for sure. I didn't know that the kuro tech could improve that much, and I am already satisfied by the current performance. If the 9th gens have the same form factor as the 8th, but the blacks of the 9mm prototype, then damn...

Next CES their panels will be all white to show off how bright they can get.
Am I wrong? It would be nice to see colour performance in white. I'm pretty
satisfied with the current Kuro blacks, but it's the whites and bright colours
they need to show in comparison. So far, the flower in the shot looks brighter
on the new panel...but surrounded by the blackness, it means nothing.

8th-gen Pioneer plasma vs Project Kuro.:eek:
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/KuroDeepBlack600.jpg



This pic seems way off to me.. Current Kuros blacks dont glow blue that bad do they? Looks like a lcd :mad:

Both displays will actually look better than that. Its an over exposed camera as the above poster pointedo ut. But never-the-less, an 8 gen Kuro has a glow. The new ones apparently do not.

That's dramatically better. A WAY bigger jump from 7g to 8g... if this black level jump is totally static. Granted you'll probably have to be in a pretty dark room to enjoy the dramatic difference. Home theater buffs.. hold on to your money. :)

error 404, page does not exist, the cake is a lie........


Awesome HL2 Orange Box Portal reference there:D

Any ideas on whether the 9g's have the improved contrast or more output?

Is Pioneer actually going to announce their 2008 lineup and prices at CES or are they just showing future technology?

Where's the BIG Pioneer Elites?!? I want, OK I need, something larger than 65".

Give me a 70" or 75" and I'll write you a check.

8th-gen Pioneer plasma vs Project Kuro.:eek:
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/KuroDeepBlack600.jpg



This pic seems way off to me.. Current Kuros blacks dont glow blue that bad do they? Looks like a lcd :mad:

Almost seems like they cranked up the brightness on the 8th gen to make the difference seem more dramatic. Looks like an unrealistic comparison.

Almost seems like they cranked up the brightness on the 8th gen to make the difference seem more dramatic. Looks like an unrealistic comparison.it is called exposure time on the camera. more light is able to get into the lens, and it is able to, therefore, get more light into the picture

I'm aware of the effects of exposure time, ISO settings, etc. I've taken pics of my Sammy plasma w/ long exposure times that look significantly better than that 8th gen pic, and my Sammy is most definitely inferior to the 5010 in black levels. Thus, I still believe there is something 'off' w/ the setup of that 5010. I'm not taking anything away from the concept plasma, just making a comment on their setup.

8th-gen Pioneer plasma vs Project Kuro.:eek:
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/KuroDeepBlack600.jpg



This pic seems way off to me.. Current Kuros blacks dont glow blue that bad do they? Looks like a lcd :mad:

Marketing BS.
They did same a year ago, 8G was absolutely black, and 7G was like 8G on this pic..

Well, that one image really looks extreme. The other 8G/10G comparison pictures are more realistic. I really think the digicam stumbled on this one.

Marketing BS.
They did same a year ago, 8G was absolutely black, and 7G was like 8G on this pic..

idk. on that firework pic., i couldn't even see the bezel at all. THAT is impressive!!!:D:D

Marketing BS.
They did same a year ago, 8G was absolutely black, and 7G was like 8G on this pic..

I bet you that if a 7th gen model was in that shot it would look insanely gray with those camera exposure settings.

When I take pictures of my lcd monitor in a pitch black room I can make the monitor look anywhere ranging from pure black to almost white it's so gray depending on what settings I choose. I usually take overexposed shots of a new lcd monitor to really see how the backlight uniformity is because I'm anal like that.

If I recall correctly, last years shots were not so ridiculously overexposed. In fact, they were taken in a way where they seemed to appropriately capture the 7th gen display while making the 8th gen display look as if it horribly crushed black. The explanation for that was the limited dynamic range of digital cameras.

I've seen all the posts for the super thin and extreme contrast concept Pio's but what I haven't seen is any detailed information on the 9G panels. Have I missed it or do we not know anything? I'm really interested in what is going to be available for purchase during the summer and fall of 2008.

pioneer did not show the 9g at ces-only by invitation at a different hotel - i was very disapointed

but i saw the thin one and it is pretty nice - same picture as the 8g

At least we now know there will be a 9g pioneer ikeb.Now will somebody who was invited to the 9g pioneer showing please post what you saw.

pioneer did not show the 9g at ces-only by invitation at a different hotel - i was very disapointed

but i saw the thin one and it is pretty nice - same picture as the 8g

When do you think we will here about it? D-Nice has already basically said that the 9g panels will have the extreme contrast just not the ultra slim profile.

pioneer did not show the 9g at ces-only by invitation at a different hotel - i was very disapointed

but i saw the thin one and it is pretty nice - same picture as the 8g

More information than I had. Thanks. Now, I second mattg3's request...someone who knows more please post up! :)

Marketing BS.
They did same a year ago, 8G was absolutely black, and 7G was like 8G on this pic..

Agree, it's a staged demo. What would you do to exaggerate the effect? :)

Funky Camera work or not, Pioneer states that the individual pixels are in fact 'OFF' which has never been done before in any plasma. The patent describing the method makes sense and also says the pixels are completely 'OFF'.

When do you think we will here about it? D-Nice has already basically said that the 9g panels will have the extreme contrast just not the ultra slim profile.I have not confirmed or denied that the 9G will have the zero idle luminance. I've stated the 9G are fully capable of carrying the tech.

I have not confirmed or denied that the 9G will have the zero idle luminance. I've stated the 9G are fully capable of carrying the tech.

Are any details about the 9G's going to be given at all this week? The 10Gs sound incredible but it seems rather odd that there's no news at all about the 9Gs.

Are any details about the 9G's going to be given at all this week? The 10Gs sound incredible but it seems rather odd that there's no news at all about the 9Gs.Pioneer has never really used CES to introduce a new year's model line. The first Kuros were the exception to the rule due to the accelerated production model for them. You will not hear of any 9G info on the CES floor.

Pioneer has never really used CES to introduce a new year's model line. The first Kuros were the exception to the rule due to the accelerated production model for them. You will not hear of any 9G info on the CES floor.

Thanks! But that's a bummer. Then again, they won't come out until late summer anyways.

Pioneer has never really used CES to introduce a new year's model line. The first Kuros were the exception to the rule due to the accelerated production model for them. You will not hear of any 9G info on the CES floor.dang. i wanted to know if i could wait for 9gs or will i have to buy a 150 now and buy the new one later. good for me, bad for budget. will the 9/10gs be cheaper due to 10 lumens

pioneer told me that they will have a press release about the 9g in feb when they kick off their road show pioneer also told me that they will not longer publish contrast ratios

also - panasonic's new pz850 and pz800 really looked good. As good as my 5080 and the 5010's that i have seen in the stores - no pricing yet - their 150" is unbelievable

one other interesting thing at the show - dolby's new volume control really works and will be in tvs and receivers in 2009. 2009 looks like the year for more advances - 2008 "stuff" seemed to be rehashed 2007 "stuff" slightly modified

dang. i wanted to know if i could wait for 9gs or will i have to buy a 150 now and buy the new one later. good for me, bad for budget. will the 9/10gs be cheaper due to 10 lumens9G's will not have 10 lumne tech. 10 lumen tech gives you the 9mm display. That's not happening in 2008.

9G's will not have 10 lumne tech. 10 lumen tech gives you the 9mm display. That's not happening in 2008.didn't you say they incorporate certain parts of 10 lumen, or are they 5 lumen.

Thanks to ikeb and D-Nice for clearing up the 9G information. February isn't that far away so we don't have that long too wait. Let's hope for early in February. ;)

pioneer told me that they will have a press release about the 9g in feb when they kick off their road show pioneer also told me that they will not longer publish contrast ratios

also - panasonic's new pz850 and pz800 really looked good. As good as my 5080 and the 5010's that i have seen in the stores - no pricing yet - their 150" is unbelievable

one other interesting thing at the show - dolby's new volume control really works and will be in tvs and receivers in 2009. 2009 looks like the year for more advances - 2008 "stuff" seemed to be rehashed 2007 "stuff" slightly modified

as far as i could tell Pioneer has no longer published contrast for a while now, at least i couldnt find any numbers last year either.

as for the Panasonics, when you think about it, it isnt much of an acheivment for their upcoming top of the line THX 800 and 850's to merely look "as good" as the 5080's ;)

as far as i could tell Pioneer has no longer published contrast for a while now, at least i couldnt find any numbers last year either.

as for the Panasonics, when you think about it, it isnt much of an acheivment for their upcoming top of the line THX 800 and 850's to merely look "as good" as the 5080's ;)last year 16,000 for 720p sets and 20,000 for 1080p sets. That was the most widely announced feature for the KUROS... where have you been living ;)

I have not confirmed or denied that the 9G will have the zero idle luminance. I've stated the 9G are fully capable of carrying the tech.

I know you haven't.. but from what I have read in all your posts you are hinting that the 9G models are very capable of having the extreme contrast feature. :p
Lets hope so.

I could care less about supper thin but give me an abosolute black with 10 lumen technology plasma at 75 inches and I will be pulling the tigger as soon as it is available ( my PRO-150FD can find a home in the bedroom :-)

I've got my fingers crossed!!!

last year 16,000 for 720p sets and 20,000 for 1080p sets. That was the most widely announced feature for the KUROS... where have you been living ;)

In the world where at that time i went to the kuro website and found absolutely no mention of contrast numbers anywhere.

besides, i would think that the higher resolution sets would have a slightly dimmer look and lower contrast, at least thats what people suspected due to the Panasonics doing it that way.

In the world where at that time i went to the kuro website and found absolutely no mention of contrast numbers anywhere.

besides, i would think that the higher resolution sets would have a slightly dimmer look and lower contrast, at least thats what people suspected due to the Panasonics doing it that way.

The higher resolution Pioneer sets have lower black levels. That's why they have a slightly larger contrast ratio.

In the world where at that time i went to the kuro website and found absolutely no mention of contrast numbers anywhere.

besides, i would think that the higher resolution sets would have a slightly dimmer look and lower contrast, at least thats what people suspected due to the Panasonics doing it that way.http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/tvs/0,39037594,62032783,00.htm proof

http://asia.cnet.com/reviews/home_av/tvs/0,39037594,62032783,00.htm proof

yeah and you only had to go to a singapore cnet website to get it, i wouldnt necesarily consider that obvious or pioneer officially listing its contrast, as i said, go to their actual website, the contrast numbers for their 8g kuros were never listed.

yeah and you only had to go to a singapore cnet website to get it, i wouldnt necesarily consider that obvious or pioneer officially listing its contrast, as i said, go to their actual website, the contrast numbers for their 8g kuros were never listed.before the new announcements... or in july or august of last year. if you googled kuro, an engadget, gizmodo type website with the press release that stated them :) i think most people knew the kuros Contrast ratio

Other than the demise of the HD DVD format, :eek: they should have called it the CES 2008 non-event this year, with lots of future tech but no great innovations being released during 2008 regarding display technology, Blu-ray disc or TiVo native support for SDV. :(

Don't look for many changes until sometime after 2/17/09, which puts us out to CES 2010. ;)

Other than the demise of the HD DVD format, :eek: they should have called it the CES 2008 non-event this year, with lots of future tech but no great innovations being released during 2008 regarding display technology, Blu-ray disc or TiVo native support for SDV. :(

Don't look for many changes until sometime after 2/17/09, which puts us out to CES 2010. ;)
:confused:

Panasonic has new plasma's with 30000:1 contrast ratio. We do not know what Pioneer will have in the 9G's this year. There will be new products and that is what I care about, not CES.

I think the Future product displays were needed to show the media and public that Plasma has a future and it is awesome ;)

- Rich

Don't look for many changes until sometime after 2/17/09, which puts us out to CES 2010. ;)

Why?

Should I haul my new Pro150 fd to the nearest landfill now or wait for the new gen models yet to be released? WTF...

Should I haul my new Pro150 fd to the nearest landfill now or wait for the new gen models yet to be released? WTF...

The answer to that question is obviously yes. ;)

Should I haul my new Pro150 fd to the nearest landfill now or wait for the new gen models yet to be released? WTF...

Just tell me where you live and I'll take care of all the dirty work for you !! :D

Just tell me where you live and I'll take care of all the dirty work for you !! :D

I don't quite get the reasoning here with the discussions concerning the new pios, what we have HERE and NOW is SOTA in plasma technology, and people seem to be taking it for granted because of new gen on the horizon.

Is it me or am I missing something:confused:

Why?I doubt much if anything regarding HDTV & DRM will change until after the analog shutoff date: 2/17/09.

For example, I find it amazing TiVo did not announce a DVR that provides native support for SDV.

Pioneer has nothing new to offer until May 08' so why even bother showing up @ CES 2008?

Panasonic & Comcast claim to be rolling out interactive PDPs this year, but they said the same thing last year too. :rolleyes:

With Warner Bros dropping support for HD DVD and most likely Paramount soon to follow, it really took the wind out of the sails for Toshiba and Samsung's not-so-ready for prime time dual 5000/5500 format players.

All in all CES 2008 seems like a non-starter to me.

I saw the Pioneer "Concept KURO" demonstration yesterday - un'frig'in-believable!

They had three 5010s - one on each side and one in the left front of the room ( with a "Concept KURO" in the right front of the room that was not visible due to the darkness of the room during the first part of the demonstration ). It was obvious that they had the "glow" turned up full force on the 5010s ( either that or my PRO-150FD has over 65% less glow than the 5010s ) in order to provide an extremely striking contrast.

Regardless, in a pitch black room there was zero glow on the "Concept KURO" model. There were no black bars at all, i.e. the video floated in black space.

I suspect they could probably release these today if they wanted to but see no reason to with the sales of the current gen KUROs. I am also surprised they jumped right to absolute black since they could probably milk a couple generations of upgrade cycles - they must suspect that other technologies will catch up pretty quick over the next year...

I will definitely be pulling the trigger on a 75 inch version as soon as available and putting my PRO-150FD in a spare room...

I saw the Pioneer "Concept KURO" demonstration yesterday - un'frig'in-believable!


I suspect they could probably release these today if they wanted to but see no reason to with the sales of the current gen KUROs. I am also surprised they jumped right to absolute black since they could probably milk a couple generations of upgrade cycles - they must suspect that other technologies will catch up pretty quick over the next year...

I will definitely be pulling the trigger on a 75 inch version as soon as available and putting my PRO-150FD in a spare room...

I suspect that they created this demo to try to change direction of the "LCD is taking over the world / plasma is dying" gloom and doom that has been in the press and discussion boards of late. Otherwise, they would have absolutely *no* reason to demo non-deliverable tech that could cannibalize sales of their current panels. Presuming that the new Kuro extreme uses the same proven, long-life phosphors and other tech as Pioneer's current panels, this demo seriously changes the flat panel landscape, because it also is a stake aimed at the heart of FED and OLED technologies, both of which have manufacturability and usable lifetime issues at the moment, whereas the new Pioneer could be assumed to have a 60,000+ hour half-brightness life and to be highly manufacturable using proven methods.

IBM used to have a company policy of not announcing a new product until it was on the shelf and ready to deliver. This is ordinarily the most rational behavior for a company.

As for me, I will enjoy my 150FD for two years and will definitely step up to the new tech when it is actually for sale.

I saw the Pioneer "Concept KURO" demonstration yesterday - un'frig'in-believable!

They had three 5010s - one on each side and one in the left front of the room ( with a "Concept KURO" in the right front of the room that was not visible due to the darkness of the room during the first part of the demonstration ). It was obvious that they had the "glow" turned up full force on the 5010s ( either that or my PRO-150FD has over 65% less glow than the 5010s ) in order to provide an extremely striking contrast.

Regardless, in a pitch black room there was zero glow on the "Concept KURO" model. There were no black bars at all, i.e. the video floated in black space.

I suspect they could probably release these today if they wanted to but see no reason to with the sales of the current gen KUROs. I am also surprised they jumped right to absolute black since they could probably milk a couple generations of upgrade cycles - they must suspect that other technologies will catch up pretty quick over the next year...

I will definitely be pulling the trigger on a 75 inch version as soon as available and putting my PRO-150FD in a spare room...

Was that demo on the ultra flat display? It wasn't clear to me whether the ultra flat tv and the zero-glow tv are 2 separate tvs or whether they can combine both technologies in one tv ...

Was that demo on the ultra flat display? It wasn't clear to me whether the ultra flat tv and the zero-glow tv are 2 separate tvs or whether they can combine both technologies in one tv ...


No the "Kuro Concept" ultra thin was displayed on the regular CES floor.

The objective is to eventually merge the two.

No the "Kuro Concept" ultra thin was displayed on the regular CES floor.

The objective is to eventually merge the two.

Thanks for the info! Any additional comments when what technology becomes available?

I will definitely be pulling the trigger on a 75 inch version as soon as available and putting my PRO-150FD in a spare room...

Is there a 75 on the way?

- Rich

Is there a 75 on the way?

- Rich


There is nothing publicly announced from Pioneer but several reliable sources have indicated such..

There is nothing publicly announced from Pioneer but several reliable sources have indicated such..

Is there a 75 on the way?

- Rich

Well, that is interesting. Now, just make it ECC (Extreme Contrast Concept) and I make have to break open the piggy bank.

Just my opinion, but I think we may see ECC in 2008 since we say Kuro at CES 2007 and got the panels in 2007. I cannot remember if they had promised them in 2007 though. Do you recall?

- Rich

Well, that is interesting. Now, just make it ECC (Extreme Contrast Concept) and I make have to break open the piggy bank.

Just my opinion, but I think we may see ECC in 2008 since we say Kuro at CES 2007 and got the panels in 2007. I cannot remember if they had promised them in 2007 though. Do you recall?

- RichThe 1st Kuros were orginally scheduled for Q2 of this year ;)

Well, that is interesting. Now, just make it ECC (Extreme Contrast Concept) and I make have to break open the piggy bank.

Just my opinion, but I think we may see ECC in 2008 since we say Kuro at CES 2007 and got the panels in 2007. I cannot remember if they had promised them in 2007 though. Do you recall?

- Rich

The 1st Kuros were orginally scheduled for Q2 of this year ;)

Now a 75 Inch ECC Plasma would cause me to shake uncontrollably while reaching for my wallet :p

- Rich

Now a 75 Inch ECC Plasma would cause me to shake uncontrollably while reaching for my wallet :p

- Rich


I would be reaching for asprin :) That would be a huge bright plamsa that would need atleast 15ft . 65in for me is more ideal for me.. I'm still skeptical on plasma that large and noise too. The last panny 65 i seen was the most noisy display i ever seen.. I probably would go crt front projection for huge screen size and a movie theater feel- brightness and noise i could tolerate.
Purity baby :D

Do we know if the "not in 2008" extreme contrast Pioneers which, if history is a guide, might possibly appear on 2008, will be available in both 720p and 1080p, or just 1080p? If 5080's were used in the demo, I would kinda think that the new panel was a 720p as well, but maybe not. At some point I'm sure 720p's won't be in the new product lineup, just don't know when that'll be.

I kinda like this post :-)

http://www.avforums.com/forums/showpost.php?p=6164280&postcount=4

:confused:

Panasonic has new plasma's with 30000:1 contrast ratio. We do not know what Pioneer will have in the 9G's this year. There will be new products and that is what I care about, not CES.

I think the Future product displays were needed to show the media and public that Plasma has a future and it is awesome ;)

- Rich

whats disconcerting is that people said the new Panasonics looked about as good as the Kuros....ok then, i think i'd spring for a Kuro then which will be even cheaper once these newer panasonics come out, or spend more and get an even superior 9g kuro.

speaking of which, did someone just say they will be coming out this may? or just be tentatively "announced" this may?

whats disconcerting is that people said the new Panasonics looked about as good as the Kuros....ok then, i think i'd spring for a Kuro then which will be even cheaper once these newer panasonics come out, or spend more and get an even superior 9g kuro.

speaking of which, did someone just say they will be coming out this may? or just be tentatively "announced" this may?

I think we have to wait for them to come out to know for sure. You can learn more about the Panasonics here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=970761

- Rich

Plasma, 10 lumen tech.....I will not say anything else.

I say it's a Plasma also, with the new 10 lumen tech, with absolute black technology.

I think we have to wait for them to come out to know for sure. You can learn more about the Panasonics here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=970761

- Rich

since it sems really latent at this point and kind of not covered, i wonder if they are even trying to improve IR/burn in stuff anymore (i think it got better this generation in comparison to last). I wish they'd talk about that, just imagine if they eliminated IR, or made it the same as CRT (which as far as i remember didnt have IR and was pretty much as hard to burn in as an LCD), i think that would be a major boon.

also, so did what someone say about the Pioneers being unvelived in may mean they might come out then or definetly only the possibility of them being announced then?

since it sems really latent at this point and kind of not covered, i wonder if they are even trying to improve IR/burn in stuff anymore (i think it got better this generation in comparison to last). I wish they'd talk about that, just imagine if they eliminated IR, or made it the same as CRT (which as far as i remember didnt have IR and was pretty much as hard to burn in as an LCD), i think that would be a major boon.

also, so did what someone say about the Pioneers being unvelived in may mean they might come out then or definetly only the possibility of them being announced then?

Pioneer has been very busy in R&D, and is improving all facets of plasma video tech, whether it is IR, or lumens, or video processing, etc. BTW, CRT's do/did have a problem w/burn-in & IR, as do all phosphor based video tech.

Pioneer has been very busy in R&D, and is improving all facets of plasma video tech, whether it is IR, or lumens, or video processing, etc. BTW, CRT's do/did have a problem w/burn-in & IR, as do all phosphor based video tech.

yes but if you watch any of the marketing videos for the latest kuro (or in general) IR resistability or improvements are not really discussed, the best you'll get is "it has an orbiter" which in my mind hasnt really improved over time, it's just either there or it isnt, but there's more to it than that.

and i never said a CRT didnt have IR/burn in possibilities, but i dont EVER recall having any issues with one period, and thats saying alot for something that supposedly uses the same phosphor based technology as a plasma.

for whatever reasons CRT's were always much more rhobust, moreso than even the current gen plasmas thats for sure. Even the Panasonic manuals for their current sets attempt to proclaim that "you can treat them just like your old tube set" implying that for whatever reasons older tube sets were extremely resistant to IR and burn in.

for whatever reasons CRT's were always much more rhobust, moreso than even the current gen plasmas thats for sure. That is because the IR you see on your plasma is not due to phosphor aging or phosphor wear. It is an issue inherent to PDP operation.

There are recent patents from LG, Samsung, and Pioneer that I have read that regard reducing burn-in/IR on PDP. One from Pioneer directly applies to the Kuro design. The patent suggests controlling the discharge timing to offset any residual image.

Note that terminology varies widely on this subject. Ghosting, afterimage, residual image, image retention, image sticking, burn-in are all used in the patent literature.

That is because the IR you see on your plasma is not due to phosphor aging or phosphor wear. It is an issue inherent to PDP operation.
There are recent patents from LG, Samsung, and Pioneer that I have read that regard reducing burn-in/IR on PDP. One from Pioneer directly applies to the Kuro design. The patent suggests controlling the discharge timing to offset any residual image.

Note that terminology varies widely on this subject. Ghosting, afterimage, residual image, image retention, image sticking, burn-in are all used in the patent literature.

really? i thought the 4:3 bar issue is exactly that. Anyhow, so whatever the reason, CRT and Plasmas are not in the same arena when it comes to IR and burn in issues is all i really was saying.

as for the patents, no doubt they have to document it somewhere, i'm just saying they never really talk about it with some of the other features they mention, especially since i know there is more to it than just an orbiter (which seems to function similarily across different performing brands and tv's). you'd think if they talk about a better glass to absorb more ambient reflections in their press videos they'd also talk about some shmancy new phosphore grid system to be more rhobust against IR, burn in and uneven wear over previous generations as well.

as for the patents, no doubt they have to document it somewhere, i'm just saying they never really talk about it with some of the other features they mention, especially since i know there is more to it than just an orbiter (which seems to function similarily across different performing brands and tv's). you'd think if they talk about a better glass to absorb more ambient reflections in their press videos they'd also talk about some shmancy new phosphore grid system to be more rhobust against IR, burn in and uneven wear over previous generations as well. PDP manufacturers over the years have made PDPs extremely resistent to phosphor wear and subsequent phosphor burn-in. But the big problem lies in the fact that image retention caused by cell changes (not phosphor) looks exactly like phosphor wear to the general public.

So to the general public phosphor burn-in is still a major concern (even though it is not). So there is little point marketing to the public that image retention has been solved when they don't even know what it truly is.

I think they avoid talking publicly about it on purpose. IR and burn-in are taboo words in the display world. They have a long history and to suddenly say that we are improving burn-in or IR resistence suggests they are admitting that there is a problem in the first place. And to make things worse the general public cannot distinguish the two.

Those of you who think CRTs did not burn in:

You may recall, if you are old enough, that Screen Savers were first invented to prevent burn-in on CRT monitors. I mean before they were designed to amuse us ;)

- Rich

Those of you who think CRTs did not burn in:

You may recall, if you are old enough, that Screen Savers were first invented to prevent burn-in on CRT monitors. I mean before they were designed to amuse us ;)

- Rich

Here's another one for all you ole timers...like me!:D...remember the severe burn-in on all those CRT's in bars & lounges displaying the first video game PONG???

This:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/extreme-burn-in.JPG

is burn in.

This:

http://mysite.verizon.net/vzequg9f/extreme-burn-in.JPG

is burn in.i can still read the high score and other stuff... THAT is bad