hi everyone

I have been enjoying a 9" CRT for the last 7 years and I believe the time has come for it to come down. It needs new tubes, fans and a new setup and I just dont think I need to put more money into the beast....

Now the question. I have a 16:9 96" wide 1.3 stewart screen in a totally light controlled room (dark bat cave). The screen is as big as the room will allow.

I have not seen any of these projectors, but based on everyones reviews the top three for me are C3X 1080, RS2 and VW200. I know that there is a big difference in cost, but I would like to leave cost out of this as I can afford any of the three... Which one should I go for in my situation?

Thnaks!!!

Any of the 3 would work well. Coming from the CRT I would vote JVC RS2 or Sony VW200.

I'll buck the trend and say C3X 1080. You won't get the on : off contrast you're used to, but simultaneous contrast is in another league from the (poor) CRT. See the thread in the $20k+ forum for good info. Search for posts by Art Sonneborn and maybe PM him for his impressions of transitioning from 9" CRT to 3chip DLP.

I realize you're not looking to save money, but your screen is small enough that a single chip DLP like the Sim2 HT 380 or Sharp 20k might be a good option as well. The Sharp has particularly good contrast.

If you like CRT I'd get the RS2

hi everyone

I have been enjoying a 9" CRT for the last 7 years and I believe the time has come for it to come down. It needs new tubes, fans and a new setup and I just dont think I need to put more money into the beast....

Now the question. I have a 16:9 96" wide 1.3 stewart screen in a totally light controlled room (dark bat cave). The screen is as big as the room will allow.

I have not seen any of these projectors, but based on everyones reviews the top three for me are C3X 1080, RS2 and VW200. I know that there is a big difference in cost, but I would like to leave cost out of this as I can afford any of the three... Which one should I go for in my situation?

Thnaks!!!

At current price points it shouldn't be to hard to get auditions if you live in or near a population center. Have a look-see.
That out of the way, the RS2 would be the 'closest' match to CRT. (see/read reviews)

C3X on a 96" wide screen? Do they sell nearly opaque ND filters?

So because he came from CRT that means he should go with an RS2? Perhaps he wants the best image, not what is closest to CRT? Art came from a CRT stack of 2 Sony G-90's and went with a Sim HT5000 because it was better in his opinion in all areas except black level. Pablo, obviously only you know your priorities. I have not seen the RS2 yet; I am extremely familiar with the RS1, C3X 1080 and CRT. You said to leave cost out. I would go with the C3X 1080.

Pablo,

Does my memory not serve me correctly? I thought you owned a Barco and had switched to a Marantz DLP some years back?

QQQ


No, I have never seriously contemplated switching from my Marquee 9501LC until now. You are right, I want the best picture possible. While black levels are nice, my marquee was never quite set up to its capabilities and I know I black levels could have been improved more, but they they never bothered me unless I was watching something really dark. I always preferred a more punchy look and brightness than the perfect black level...

I am concerned about having to wear sunglassess with the c3x though...Anybody seen it on an 8ft wide 16:9 1.3 screen? at 750 ansi lumens (calibrated), my calcs give me 27 ft lamberts. How bright would this be?

Thanks and keep advice coming...

QQQ


No, I have never seriously contemplated switching from my Marquee 9501LC until now. You are right, I want the best picture possible. While black levels are nice, my marquee was never quite set up to its capabilities and I know I black levels could have been improved more, but they they never bothered me unless I was watching something really dark. I always preferred a more punchy look and brightness than the perfect black level...

I am concerned about having to wear sunglassess with the c3x though...Anybody seen it on an 8ft wide 16:9 1.3 screen? at 750 ansi lumens (calibrated), my calcs give me 27 ft lamberts. How bright would this be?

Thanks and keep advice coming...

27 ft-l is bright ... like a new LCD TV. Personally, I like to be in the 20 ft-l range. You could always change to a lower gain screen or even a gray screen below 1.0 gain.

So because he came from CRT that means he should go with an RS2? Perhaps he wants the best image, not what is closest to CRT? Art came from a CRT stack of 2 Sony G-90's and went with a Sim HT5000 because it was better in his opinion in all areas except black level. Pablo, obviously only you know your priorities. I have not seen the RS2 yet; I am extremely familiar with the RS1, C3X 1080 and CRT. You said to leave cost out. I would go with the C3X 1080.

some people dont like that harsher overly sharp look that DLP brings. Also it's not a matter opf how much one can afford the RS2 does it for 1/6 th e price. Next year there'll be something better and a the year after that, and the next and the next. So if you want to get a $30k projector every year then ok

Gee. I have a C3x on a 54 x96 studeotech 1.3. It is a customers unit that the customer askme to check out for a few days prior to installation.

It has about 30 hours on it. I really like it. My Marquee 9501LC ultra highly modified in mounted above it and i was able to just switch an HDMI between the two. Fortunately, my Marquee has a Moome card for HDMI input.

Iamrunning the sim2 with the iris engaged, on the lowest bulb setting (200) and the brightness and contrast near factory defaults. Color space HDTV at factory d65. T2 at closest throw. blacks were decent,brightness was not excessive. Atlonger throws, which i would recommend, a t1 in my case, the machine would be about perfect for a 110"d 1.78 1.3 like i have. More later. i have to run for a DRs appointment.

Mark,

great to know... I have been following your posts and i was going to wait until you got the sony and the c3x for your review. I knew you were the guy to follow!!!

When you say blacks arent that bad, it that a light gray like a vail over everything or somewhat close to black like a CRT with brightness turned up a little bit? in terms of brightness, is it shocking to go from the CRT to the c3X? anyway, give me a few more details of what it looks like to you switch back and forth, both favorable or not...

Thanks!!!!

If price is really no object why don't you just demo all 3 at the same time for a week and watch all of them in your theater to decide for yourself which looks best. If it's too much trouble I'm sure you can find an installer in your area to even set it all up for you for a few bucks.

Doesn't that seem like the logical conclusion? Demo the units people suggest are the best? It's about what you like, not what some talking head here likes. My opinion is worth less than those talking heads btw :).

That would be the best for sure, but I am having a hard time finding demo units in my area, they are all different dealers... The sim2 dealer only has the 720p unit and will not have a 1080p until he runs out of inventory on the 720 which could be 3-4 months...

My Sony didn't arrive today. Maybe tomorrow. Pablo. Where are you located.

Most dealers, installers will not demo all three for you. Because of severe discounting and internetting of the RS1 permitted by JVC, JVC has now found out how little dealer interest there is in the RS2. Few and far between are dealers showing the RS2. The Sony VPL-vw200 is easier to find mainly due to a greater demo price offered by Sony. Few dealers are able to invest in a demo C3x1080 because it is so expensive and because at this point there is severe discounting of the line going on over the internet and traditional dealers are reacting to what is going on.

some people dont like that harsher overly sharp look that DLP brings. Also it's not a matter opf how much one can afford the RS2 does it for 1/6 th e price. Next year there'll be something better and a the year after that, and the next and the next. So if you want to get a $30k projector every year then ok
As always you attempt to impose your own agenda on the poster and state preference as fact. "Harsher overly sharp look", give me a break. Regarding the cost issue, HE said "I would like to leave cost out of this as I can afford any of the three". Not that you listened.

Whatever you do, there is inly one screen choice Da-lite HP. Regardless of the screen size, regardless of the viewing environment, regardless of the projector. Hell, with this screen in Tryg's world you don't even need a projector.

Mark

you are correct, here in Raleigh NC the JVC dealer I talked to will not show or demo any JVC's... prepaid orders only. I am sure I can get a Sony demo, but that is just about it...

Pablo

Good point Mark, but many have forgotten that before Tryg "discovered" the Dalite High Power that others had been recommending for years, that his answer to all screen questions was "Silverstar".

Pablo,

Sorry for my earlier memory gaffe, after posting I recalled who you are. I had not seen you post in a long time.

If I had the funds a 3 chip dlp would always be my first choice. My sharp 20000 produces first class black's IMO almost matching the RS2. I said 'almost'.

I would definetly be happy with an RS2 if it fell into my lap.

I think the recommendation to the OP to check out some of the finer DLP projectors makes some sense.

The immediate reaction to a CRT owner looking to replace his CRT is to think "Well, obviously this person, coming from CRT, will need to move to the digital projector with the best possible black levels." And so projectors like the RS2 naturally come up.

But people generally want an improvement or "wow" factor to some degree, when upgrading their projector. The RS2 (I gather from my RS1 experience and from reading RS2 reviews) may well do some of the things closer to the OP's CRT in some regards, but maybe that's not what he wants. Maybe he doesn't want a "poor man's CRT" (yes the RS2 is no doubt better than that, but I'm making a point)...but rather a significant feeling of "wow" in buying a new projector.

To that end, maybe a great 3 chip DLP will give that "wow" because it's strengths are in all the areas the CRT projector didn't have: Killer sharpness, much greater brightness, and far higher ANSI contrast for the type of "pop" and clarity that should really make for a difference over the CRT.

Just musing...

some people dont like that harsher overly sharp look that DLP brings. Also it's not a matter opf how much one can afford the RS2 does it for 1/6 th e price. Next year there'll be something better and a the year after that, and the next and the next. So if you want to get a $30k projector every year then ok

If the RS2 is anything like the RS1 it has it's own issues.White field uniformity,ANSI contrast,overall clarity ,punch, light output, primary and secondary color control,CA, and panel registration the HT 5000 hammers the RS1.

Yes, it costs more but it is worth it for some of us.

Art

Like a finely tuned race car the HT5000 'IS' the pinacle of projector performance as of this year as it should be. Out of my price range but down the road a C3X1080 is in my plans.

If the RS2 is anything like the RS1 it has it's own issues.White field uniformity,ANSI contrast,overall clarity ,punch, light output, primary and secondary color control,CA, and panel registration the HT 5000 hammers the RS1.

Yes, it costs more but it is worth it for some of us.

Art

No doubt the HT 5000 is one sweet piece of gear.

OK so in defense of the RS2...

Having compared it to RS1. From what I see it is significantly improved...

White field uniformity is way better than RS1.
CA much less at the edges.
Panel registration. A bit better. Not perfect.
Light output less than RS1.
Black level is darker and shadow detail even better than RS1.
Power zoom and focus (good for getting sharper image out of the projector)
Has the VStretch in the scaler. A big plus for me with a panamorph combo coming.
The better contrast ratio is evident also.
I haven't seen any motion blur on this one (I see a bit on RS1 and a lot one the older HD2K to G15 series)

So for me it was worth the extra money for the RS2.

Things I wish it had...
Internal CMS
More scaling options.
More discreet RS232 codes (they probably exist, but only the engineers know them)
Better Panel alignment. (e.g. Sony style)
Zoom/Focus as dedicated buttons on remote
VStretch as dedicated button on remote.
Analog VGA input.

With that said, if somebody came over and offered me free trade-up to the HT5000, I would take the trade. :D The high-end 3 chip DLPs are awesome!

Good point Mark, but many have forgotten that before Tryg "discovered" the Dalite High Power that others had been recommending for years, that his answer to all screen questions was "Silverstar".

LOL! Didn't Darin introduce him to the High Power?:)

If the RS2 is anything like the RS1 it has it's own issues.White field uniformity,ANSI contrast,overall clarity ,punch, light output, primary and secondary color control,CA, and panel registration the HT 5000 hammers the RS1.Based on what I saw at your place with the HT5000 and at CEDIA with the C3X, your HT5000 beat the C3X in either Chromatic Aberration of panel registration also. Not sure which I was seeing, but I definitely saw some offsets of the colors with the C3X and it is one the concerns I have with it. Not sure if it was mostly just the differences in the individual projectors, but the lenses and sizes of the projectors and chips could give the HT5000 an advantage over the C3X as far as this factor.

PabloReiter,

Not sure if this will help, but one reason I couldn't tell you which of these projectors to buy is that I've been to enough comparisons to know that preferences will most likely vary if everybody gets to see all the choices. So, no matter which of the 3 I said was the best, somebody would likely prefer one of the other 2 and so me telling them which one they would like best before they got to see them would be bad advice for their preferences. And sometimes you just have to see things to know what you will prefer. But, given that, these all look like nice projectors and if money is no object, then you could consider changing the screen material too. Although going to a gray screen for the C3X (since it is so bright) wouldn't be likely to help much in a very dark room, unless you want to watch with lights on.

Even given the above, I will say that personally I would probably narrow it down to the C3X and RS2. From what I've seen and heard, the RS2 is likely to have a more uniform absolute black field than the Sony (less issue with brighter corners than center), although I should say that I've only seen one production RS2.

--Darin

Money no issue criteria is confusing imo.
While it is not easy to put a cap on the limits of the budget for some, it makes a whole lot of sense to think hard as what you want to do with this set up and what your expectations are. One you know what you want given the choices and prices you will know which is the best for money.
If you are after brightness and punch (you mentioned) then a DLP makes sense and there are a few nice choices out there.
Also since the budget is open have the CRT fixed and keep it for a while before your final thoughts are put together. Once that is fixed and some experience with fixed panel you will have a better idea.

No doubt the HT 5000 is one sweet piece of gear.

OK so in defense of the RS2...
Having compared it to RS1. From what I see it is significantly improved...
White field uniformity is way better than RS1.
CA much less at the edges.
Panel registration. A bit better. Not perfect.

These things depend on the specimen you look at since there is quite some variation in the production. The RS2 I saw had worse convergence than the RS1 I have, for example. Shading uniformity and the brighter corner phenomenon were about the same.

If the RS2 is anything like the RS1 it has it's own issues.White field uniformity,ANSI contrast,overall clarity ,punch, light output, primary and secondary color control,CA, and panel registration the HT 5000 hammers the RS1.

Yes, it costs more but it is worth it for some of us.

Art

I have had an RS1 now for a few weeks and the only issue I see is the color saturation and that isn't bothering me and now after 60 hours or so it needs to be grey scale calibrated which I will do myself. The red does look like it dropped some since it was new. No issue at all with white field uniformity. Focus is perfect across the entire screen on mine. Convergence is perfect right out of the box across the entire screen and I don't see any artifacts on ref striped shirts watching football. I'm hard pressed to see color fringing. If I get up close to the screen I saw one spot about an inch wide where I could just see some slight fringing using a crosshatch pattern. Black and white movies are perfect. No issues at all. My thought is because I am using the lens long throw that most of the lens issues are close to eliminated. I couldn't be happier and the price I paid made me even happier.

Everyone that has seen it love the over saturated colors...go figure. If a cheaper version of the radiance comes out some day I may go for it but for now turning down the color level a little looks great. This projector will stay in my theater for several years to come.

Ron

I sat in a screening room with 15 other so called HT novices and after the movie ended the projector model was revealed to everyones surprise...an RS1.

The surprising thing was that as the film was rolling the comments on the amazing bright saturated colors was repeated over and over again. Looks like the majority of enthusiasts 'like' oversaturated colors.:)

These things depend on the specimen you look at since there is quite some variation in the production. The RS2 I saw had worse convergence than the RS1 I have, for example. Shading uniformity and the brighter corner phenomenon were about the same.

The one I tested actually was as you describe. The terrible uniformity and corner issue still remains and is shown below.

The one I tested actually was as you describe. The terrible uniformity and corner issue still remains and is shown below.

Yikes! That's bad. My RS1 doesn't have bright corners like that. If I sit with a black screen for a half a minute I start to see a tiny bit of higher black level in the corners but its hard to see. With a blue screen like that I don't see it at all and the brightness level looks perfect across the entire screen. Uniformity is very good on my RS1.

I am curious if people like the saturated colors more because they like the look or the reduced color gamut of the software doesn't look correct.

Well guys,

I went to demo a bunch of digitals. Having owned a 9" CRT for 6 years (marquee 9501LC), I was nervous about the demo, wanting the beast to come down, but not wanting to give up much in doing so.

After going through a demo of the sim2 D80 and C3X (720p) and epson on a 110" diagonal 16:9 130 studiotek and being thoroughly unimpressed, I asked for the rs2. I would have never installed the sim2's or Epson that I saw in my theater.

My dealer told me not to bother with the rs2 because the colors are so off that there was no way I was going to like it. I asked him to open the box and throw a quick image just to humor me. Once he sets it up, he admits that he has never seen an rs2 (aside from tradeshows) , just a bunch of rs1's he installed.

After 10 minutes an image is thrown and all we could ALL say (me, salesperson and installer) was WOW!!! 4 or 5 movie demos later the pj was boxed up and in my car. I installed it today using my screen (same as dealer) I can tell you with confidence that I am never going back to CRT. I dont miss it one bit. The improvement in brightness, detail, contrast etc is just unbelievable. The picture is soooo much brighter than the crt, yet just as dark (almost) in fade to blacks and dark material. My HTPC desktop is as sharp as a regular monitor with no softness in any corner.

The RS2 is a very special projector that I can be happy with for a looooong time. I would have never thought that I would be so happy not to have my CRT hanging from my ceiling. Is is by far the best picture my theater has seen. Darks nearly as dark as my CRT but superior in every other aspect!!!

I did not demo the sony (any of them) as I read here that they are too dim. I did demo some big runco 3 chipper and also, gray (not black :-)) levels were too high compared to my CRT.

I am very happy with my purchase.

Thanks to all for the help!!!