I'm thinking about picking up a 60" Pioneer Kuro (link (http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/Products/HomeEntertainment/PlasmaTVs+Monitors/PioneerTVs/ci.PDP-6010FD.Kuro)), but seeing that I've only ever owned 2 RPTV's (and been very happy with them), I was hoping to get some feedback from some actual plasma owners. I understand that motion blur isn't an issue as it may be in some other LCDs...but I keep reading conflicting reports on burn in--everything just seems to say that gaming for an "extended period of time" may cause burn-in...or sports tickers...or pill boxes....etc. But what the heck is this "extended period of time"? How much time do you guys game for before you'll see burn in?
How long do I need to wait between play times to avoid this?
Does simply changing the on screen picture for a few seconds do enough to eliminate burn-in during long play sessions? What amount of time will a different picture need to be on the screen to eliminate the chance of it happening?
Thanks.

I am under the impression that burn-in with plasmas is a thing of the past (but is still brought up repeatedly as a knock against plasma)

Anyways, never had a problem after 10+ hour gaming sessions. I have seen image "retention" which can be mistaken for burn-in (basically the static image is still visible after turning the TV off or watching something else, but it goes away after a couple of minutes).

EDIT: I assume this is what you mean by "temporary burn-in" but didn't see that option before I voted for "never"

You won't have any problem with the Kuro. They've got great anti-burn in features. Mine seems bullet proof when it comes to burn in.

Short and sweet answer: If you have never had a burn-in issue with your previous CRT based displays, you will never have a burn-in issue with a plasma. They both make a picture the exact same way, by exciting phosphers. The only difference is how they go about making the electrons to excite said phosphers.

For what it is worth, I beat the hell out of my plasma. Sure, I have auto-screensavers kick in where applicable (consoles, DVD, etc), but I walk away and leave an image going whenever I feel like it. Hell, the 360 dashboard is sitting on my display as I respond to this. :)

The poll is misleading! "Burn in" is a permanent thing. What you have termed "temporary burn in" is what we call "image retention." Yes, I have had cases of image retention with my panny px50U, and the first time I noticed it, which was against a random white-screen image from a movie, it freaked me out. But that was a long time ago, and it went away without me going through any mumbo jumbo to get rid of it. Nowadays, I may notice it once in a while after a long session, but only against a white background, and I don't fret, since I know it won't last at all. And trust me, I'm the only one who notices it at all when it's there, the others never see it.

My understanding from reading around here is that some plasma brands are worse than others when it comes to image retention, but for the most part true burn in requires either real abuse, or industrial usage of the display. I would venture to guess that the Kuro line is about as bullet proof as it gets, and if you follow the standard break-in procedures and are reasonable with your usage (i.e. don't leave the thing on a DVD menu screen for 24 hrs.) you will never have any problems outside of the occasional, very hard to see image retention aginst a white background after a long session of Madden, and you will have nothing but high praise for the image the thing puts out 100% of the time, whether it be movies, TV drama, sports, or especially games.

I've been using my 360 with a 50" Pioneer 5070 for almost a year now. It handles every source I throw at it incredibly well. Even better, I treat this set no differently from my old CRT and I've never had even a hint of image retention. I pay absolutely no attention to static images on screen. I mean none. I game heavily on this set and watch alot of hockey with the score bar along the top. No IR.

The current model is the 5080 and several review sources (such as CNET) consider it the best overall plasma as well. Highly recommended.

I'd like to point out that the PDP-5070 user's manual does not recommend going through any sort of 100-200 hrs break-in process. Think about it: if you were a manufacturer of expensive TVs would you skip putting in the manual a critical aspect of operating the TV because you assume that eventually the owner will go to avsforum to find out what they should *really* do? I'd be surprised if even a tenth of all plasma purchasers have spend any time reading a site like this one.

Ok, ok, so the manual does give the usual disclaimer about avoiding static images for "too long" (but incidentally, I have yet to see a definition of how long too long actually is.)

After I got my Pio5070, for the first few days I treated it with kid gloves and checked regularly for IR (image retention). Then maybe 3 days in I decided what could it hurt to watch one 2.35 movie? Did that, no IR. Not long after, did a bit of gaming. No IR. Watched some 4:3 std def TV. No IR. Not even a little. All this, before the 25 hour mark.

I'm somewhere in the neighbourhood of 2-3000 hrs now. This set gets a fair amount of use frankly. Looking back I have pretty much watched whatever I wanted. I've played video games more/less right from the start, 2.35 ratio movies and 3:4 std def content (although, the 5070 has a nice non-linear stretch mode for 3:4 which I like better than black bars.) I have over 6000 xbox 360 achievement points which goes hand in hand with 100s of hours of gaming time on this set. Still no IR!

Given my experience with the Pio5070 I think all this talk about IR and breakin periods just creates alot of fear, uncertainty and stress for nothing!

Couple extra points about Pioneer "softness" that some people comment about. That's basically configurable and due to processing that can be turned off.

The sharpest processing mode is "game mode" - there's just a bit of extra detail in the image that I wouldn't have seen otherwise and the signal quality is very high from the HDDVD so there really aren't major flaws in the signal that requires the extra video processing to remove. I found the same improvement with x360 games. "Standard mode" cleans up noise, etc. at the expense of some sharpness. I definitely find that the Game mode exposes flaws in many HD signals that the Standard mode hides. So to me, Standard mode is the better all-around viewing mode.

Pioneer kuro is one the absolute best TVs available period. Also the most expensive.

I have a panny 700u (1080p) and absolutely love it for games. I have noticed slight IR after playing Forza for hours upon hours (speedo). You have to put your nose on the glass to even see it and its gone in a few minutes. Not an issue.

If you can afford that TV, get it...haha. Too expensive for me. I'd rather buy a 1080p panny display AND a crate motor for my vette for the price of a Kuro.

I would agree with flood222. The new panny 700s are spectacular, and you can get a 58" for about half the cost of the kuro. Also, i wouldnt worry about burn in at all. I have a 9th generation panny plasma that i use for gaming all the time. Even after a long session of gaming (5+hours) there's not even a hint of ghosting from static on screen images. All of these new plasmas have great anti-burn in technologies.

You'll get some temporary image retention, but that should be it.

I had a Vizio 42" plasma over the summer. Liked the picture but I had the buzzing problem and couldn't get rid of it so I took it back and ended up going with a 50" Sony LCD RPTV.

I personally was more pleased with it, as the temporary IR bothered me sometimes. One example is watching subtitled movies, after a while you get a faint white bar across the bottom from the subtitles that was distracting to me in dark scenes with no talking. Of course it's gone 5 minutes or less after watching something else. But that may just be that Vizio is crap and the better brands don't get so much temporary IR.

But that bother, and just the nagging fear of burn in (I have a habit of leaving on ESPNnews nearly all day for example) led me to change away from plasma. But the picture quality on them is great, so definitely give them a hard look.

Never heard of temporary image burn as it is forever. Image retention is what I get on mine but goes away. If I was you I wouldn't worry about it. Plasmas have come along way since they were first produced.

Edit: Sorry, for the explanation for the 5th time.

As long as you are careful you should be fine... :)

There's no such thing as "temporary" burn-in. If it's burned in, it's permanent--whether on a CRT or plasma.

Image retention is temporary, and ALL plasma TVs will experience it to one degree or another, it's a side-effect of the technology used. If you activate the same phosphors for and extended period (like with a game's HUD or a scorboard on TV) they will remain active after the image changes. It's just how plasma displays work, you'll never get around it. However, it is temporary and barely noticible, unless you're OCD :)

lol...well I can see that by tacking the word "temporary" in front of burn-in in an effort to avoid confusion on the difference between "burn-in" and "retention" backfired :)...as that question invariably comes up in these threads.

Thanks for the great feedback guys! :) Looks like there's a 60" kuro in my near future :)

I have very slight burn in on a Panasonic 50PX60U, which I used with a 360 for about 9 months. The TV is located in our bedroom where it would get normal program viewing about 50% of the time. The rest of the time it was used for playing primarily Halo 2. When I would see evidence of image retention, I would switch over to either a screen saver or normal broadcast viewing for a couple hours. After about 9 months I noticed that I could clearly see the HUD from Halo 2, when the TV was on with no signal. I decided to give the TV a rest and purchased an LCD for gamming. It’s now been about 3 months with no gamming on the plasma. The HUD image has lessened but I can still see it with no signal if I turn the TV up to vivid mode. I can’t see it during normal viewing but I no longer feel comfortable using it as my primary gamming TV. Based on my experience I wouldn’t use a plasma for gaming unless you mix up your games. Playing one game almost exclusively may result in problems.

I have a 42" Panny 9uk series - play a LOT of Halo 3 on it, along with all kinds of other stuff.

I've occasionally seen a moment where you turn the tv off in a dark room and you can make out slight image retention. Have never been able to see it with the tv on or after a few minutes of watching something.

More often IR will occur briefly when I've watched a long letterbox movie or an SD program with sidebars. Also only lasts a second or two. Totally worth it to avoid the black crush and motion blur of LCD's in my opinion. My roommate has one and even he admits the Panny looks better.

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro 940HD plasma and have never experienced any IR or Burn In whatsoever.

Granted - my gaming marathons aren't what they used to be - but I've played for 4-5 hours at a stretch sometimes.

I also make it a point to put it on the Discovery HD Theater channel for about 15/20 minutes after having played games or watched at lot of 4:3 stuff. Even though I've never seen anything that would lead me to believe I had any IR.

I'd like to point out that the PDP-5070 user's manual does not recommend going through any sort of 100-200 hrs break-in process. Think about it: if you were a manufacturer of expensive TVs would you skip putting in the manual a critical aspect of operating the TV because you assume that eventually the owner will go to avsforum to find out what they should *really* do? I'd be surprised if even a tenth of all plasma purchasers have spend any time reading a site like this one.



That is exactly how I felt when I read about break-in and calibration thingys here.

I mean I started reading this forum just by chance. It is not mentioned anywhere at Pioneer website that before you break the seal of the TV box, make sure you visit AVS forum and read through all this.

I am still waiting to hear a response from expert on this and also what is the break-in process? I presume, just burn the break-in dvd (link from very first post of D-Nice), and play in on your tv for 150-200 hours for the very first time you turned on your TV. That what I got from all the threads. Correct me if I am wrong. I am little confused. I am going to buy 150FD and no idea about the importance of running break-in DVD. Still searching and reading the threads and gathering as much information as I can for all the pre-requisites.

It is good to have D-Nice break-in settings listed in the very first post. which i will do when i will setup my TV.

About Calibration, how much does it normally costs, and wondering if it can be done by someone I am going to buy my TV from - Pioneer authorised retailer in Edmonton, Canada, etc. But anyways, that's a second (optional) step.

The people who actually MAKE the TVs have said time and again that a break-in period is not neccessary. The theory behind it is that the phosphors are more sensitive to burn-in when the TV is new. I have not seen anything beyond anecdotal evidence from people on internet message boards that states that a break-in period is neccessary. The phosphors in a plasma TV generally have a "half-life" of 60,000 hours, or 6.8 years of continuous operation. Even if you were to completely botch the break-in of a new TV, it's still more likely that the TV will become obsolete for other reasons before you notice any dimming of the phosphors.

Calibration runs anywhere from $300-$1,000+ depending on who does it and the complexity of your set-up. But honestly, unless you've got a dedicated home theater with thousands of dollars invested in components already, you can do a decent calibration on your own with a calibration DVD and the ol' MK-I EYEBALL.

About Calibration, how much does it normally costs, and wondering if it can be done by someone I am going to buy my TV from - Pioneer authorised retailer in Edmonton, Canada, etc. But anyways, that's a second (optional) step.

Break-in is like wearing a condom, you don't know if she'll give you something but it's better to be safe than sorry. I have three plasma's, and all I did was have two settings saved, one for break-in (low everything) and one for watching (normal). I left the tv on during the work day (on a station without a static emblem - Usually a non-hd channel stretched) and switched settings at night when I watched them. I then calibrated after the initial break in -

I don't think I needed the break-in period, but it didn't hurt anything to do it.


As far as calibration, it depends on the calibrator. Some will give you a deal and some won't....look around.

As for your dealer, unless they are a certified ISF calibration dealer, I would say no. They are trained to pump the settings up (if the TV didn't already come in blazing mode) so that it looks as bright and colorful as possible (which you really don't want). Theysettings you see in the store are always way too high.


Hope this helps

The people who actually MAKE the TVs have said time and again that a break-in period is not neccessary.


I had a girl say something like that once, ended up with a tiny comb and some special shampoo :mad:

The only reason I would worry about burn-in in a quality plasma (especially a Pioneer!) is if you had the contrast/picture settings absolutely cranked up. Otherwise, you have nothing to worry about. I have a Panny 600U and noticed image retention during the first 50 hours or so, although the IR went away after putting on some full-screen material after about 10 seconds. I game on my plasma all the time and don't see a bit of IR, let alone burn-in.

Break-in is like wearing a condom, you don't know if she'll give you something but it's better to be safe than sorry. I have three plasma's, and all I did was have two settings saved, one for break-in (low everything) and one for watching (normal). I left the tv on during the work day (on a station without a static emblem - Usually a non-hd channel stretched) and switched settings at night when I watched them. I then calibrated after the initial break in -

I don't think I needed the break-in period, but it didn't hurt anything to do it.



Thank you for explaining about break-in process and calibration. I am not worrying about calibration right now but...

Is it important to run break-in DVD from DVD player? or just any station without a static emblem?

The break-in DVD has verticle lines colour and black & white. Do we need to play that DVD non-stop for 200 hours? or the intervals are necessary and intervals for how long? Can we also watch normal DVDs during this break-in process?

Sorry if I couldn't explain my question. :confused:

Breaking in a display is just dumb guys. Why put 200 hours on a display that you don't need to? Phosphers wear down upon use. Burn-in is uneven where of phosphers. Why use up the light that these phosphers will produce faster than through normal use? The phosphers arent going to magicly work better because you used them for 200 hours in 10 days instead of 200 hours in 3 months! :)

What I did to break in my plasma was follow the suggestions of the famous 'Panasonic White Paper' released a few years ago. Essentially, run the unit at lower than 50% maximum contrast and brightness settings for the first 100hrs, avoid letterboxing or pillarboxing, and avoid static images during that time as well.

From the white paper:

"Plasma Break-In

Like a fine new automobile, the performance of a plasma TV can be
optimized by allowing a break-in period. By properly following these simple
break-in instructions, you should be rewarded with long-term enjoyment of
your plasma TV.

Plasma phosphors are most susceptible to image retention in the first
hundred hours of use. The panel becomes considerably less sensitive to
burn-in after this period.

Very often, televisions, including plasma, are shipped from the factory with
the contrast control at a high setting to provide a bright picture under typical
dealer showroom lighting conditions. In your home, the room light levels are
usually one half or less than that in retail showrooms. The contrast control
may need to be lowered in your home for comfortable contrast levels that do
not induce eye strain.

When the plasma is initially installed, videophiles say it is best to do the
following:

􏰀Make sure the display is in a viewing mode (aspect ratio) that completely
fills the screen (there are often three or more settings from which to
choose). The panel is shipped in this condition, in what is called the
“Just” mode.

􏰀Turn down the picture control (contrast) to 50% or less.

􏰀Briefly engage the 4:3 mode to confirm the side bars are set to mid-gray
(there is usually an adjustment in the Set Up menu that takes the
sidebars from black to gray) to minimize the chance of burn-in.

􏰀Return the set to a “full screen” (Just, Zoom, Full) position during the
first hundred hours of use.

􏰀During the first hundred hours of use it is best not to view the same
channel for extended periods. This should prevent channel logos and
other fixed images found on some channels from being retained.

􏰀Avoid any static images (video games, computer images, DVD title
screens, etc.) during the hundred-hour break-in.

After the hundred-hour break-in period, during the next nine-hundred hours:

􏰀Continue to retain the picture setting at 50% or less.

􏰀Limit the use of 4:3 aspect ratio mode (traditional picture size that does
not fill the entire screen) to 15% of viewing time.

􏰀Limit the use of static images (computer, video games, etc.) to less than
10% of viewing time.

After one-thousand viewing hours, panels are much less likely to experience
image burn-in.
© 2004 Panasonic"

Actually, I personally didn't completely stay away from games for the first 100hrs, but I made sure to keep the sessions short and mix up the games. Also, I tried to calibrate my display as best I could for the various sources after the 100hrs, using the DVE disc for my DVD input and grabbing whatever test pattern I could find on Discovery HD or HDNet at the odd, early AM hrs I could to calibrate for the HD cable box, and so on, rather than worrying about keeping the contrast to below 50% of max for the first 900hrs as suggested by Panasonic. That to me sounds like serious hedging of their bets.

As I noted above, I have had cases of IR (mostly from EA Sports games, as well as NFL games on Fox, to tell the truth) but nothing so far has 'stuck.' It all goes away after a while. Put it this way; I had health etc. bars from Oblivion giving me IR for the time that I was fully addicted to that game, but a year or so after having played it regularly, that stuff is so long gone I couldn't tell you what those health bars looked like.

Awesome! Check out this part:

"When the plasma is initially installed, videophiles say it is best to do the following:"

You just quoted a source that has no specific information, but instead repeats info read on this forum and ones like it. You just told us "Break-in is good because Panasonic says that AVSforum says it's good". You see the very cyclical nature of this, right? :)

Awesome! Check out this part:

"When the plasma is initially installed, videophiles say it is best to do the following:"

You just quoted a source that has no specific information, but instead repeats info read on this forum and ones like it. You just told us "Break-in is good because Panasonic says that AVSforum says it's good". You see the very cyclical nature of this, right? :)

Yeah, I know. I thought that was pretty funny too when I was copying it over! I hadn't looked at that thing in a long time! But like the condom guy said, it can't really hurt to do it. I didn't run any special DVD or anything, or run the thing when I wasn't in the house. I just kept the settings depressed for the first 100hrs of regular usage.

Hey, this white paper was released years ago. I'm sure these days the higher-end plasmas are much better than they used to be years ago.

common sense + plasma = best possible picture period

If you have no common sense, or others in the house don't :), maybe Sony LCD is for you

Panny plasma or Pioneer, will not recommend anything else

LCD, only recommend Sony

I've owned two plasma TV's.

The first was a 42" Panasonic that was (and continues to be) a workhorse for me; 3 years of gaming and widescreen DVD playback without a hint of burn-in or IR. I never bothered to break it in and I logged some marathon gaming sessions including lots of Halo 2.

Last summer I bought a 50" Samsung which was plauged by image retention. Any static object (like a channel logo) that was on screen more than a few minutes would remain for hours and I'd always have to perform a scroll wipe to clean it out. I turned down the brightness and contrast settings and even did about 100 hours of break-in (although Samsung said that wasn't necessary) to no avail. The night before I returned it I played some FIFA Soccer; and after having the EA logos on the screen for about 15 minutes they appeared to burn-in permanently as I could still make them out the following day; even after a couple of hours of scroll wipe.

After my experience with the Samsung, I decided to go LCD. If you absolutely must go plasma, then stick with the recognized brand leaders (Panasonic and Pioneer) and above all else, make sure you know your store's return policy and are OK with it in case you do run into troubles.

I've owned two plasma TV's.

The first was a 42" Panasonic that was (and continues to be) a workhorse for me; 3 years of gaming and widescreen DVD playback without a hint of burn-in or IR. I never bothered to break it in and I logged some marathon gaming sessions including lots of Halo 2.

Last summer I bought a 50" Samsung which was plauged by image retention. Any static object (like a channel logo) that was on screen more than a few minutes would remain for hours and I'd always have to perform a scroll wipe to clean it out. I turned down the brightness and contrast settings and even did about 100 hours of break-in (although Samsung said that wasn't necessary) to no avail. The night before I returned it I played some FIFA Soccer; and after having the EA logos on the screen for about 15 minutes they appeared to burn-in permanently as I could still make them out the following day; even after a couple of hours of scroll wipe.

After my experience with the Samsung, I decided to go LCD. If you absolutely must go plasma, then stick with the recognized brand leaders (Panasonic and Pioneer) and above all else, make sure you know your store's return policy and are OK with it in case you do run into troubles.


Its funny you said you had trouble with one and not the other. I had lots of problems with my 42" Samsung Plasma that I bought last year and eventually returned for an LCD (TY Sams Club). I am still curious about Plasmas though (Panny and Pioneer) as the picture on the Samsung was pretty damn nice. Not light years above my current LCD (Vizio), but it was noticeably better, as was the IR :(

this is why I recommend Panny plasma. We have samsungs at work, I don't love their picture, it's washed out, not vivid and crisp like Panny is, and we have issues with burn in with them, but you have to realize that people leave these things on for very long times sitting on the windows startup page or something. I'm sure there good samsung model's out there, but with Panny being so close in price I don't understand why anyone would take the risk. Pioneer, can be quite $$$ though, compare the two side by side if you can to decide if the difference in price is justified.

"I'm sure there good samsung model's out there, but with Panny being so close in price I don't understand why anyone would take the risk."

The Samsungs are in a pretty body, the Panasonics are in an absolutely hideous frame. I don't care how nice a picture the Panny makes, it also has to look good when turned off. :)

Pio 5071, gamed on it from day one since last April, COD2, COD3, R6V, GOW and now marathon sittings of COD4.
I did mix it up a bit the 1st couple of months with content but I don't even worry about it now. Assasians Creed looks insane on a plasma.

If I did it all over again I would be getting a Pioneer Kuro without a doubt.

I got permanent burn-in on my brand new Panny 700 plasma after 1 hour of Team Fortress 2. I could see the HUD clearly on any programming for a week afterwards. I could clearly see the scoreboard, my health box and my ammo box. It didn't even fade a bit.

Before you ask, yes, the TV was properly broken-in and calibrated and the contrast was set very conservatively.

I returned it for an LCD.

While it's possible I just got a bum plasma, I doubt it. I know most people argue plasmas are fine for gaming (which is why I got one to begin with) but I learned first hand how wrong they are.

I've been home since oct 29th. Injury. All i can do is sit on my couch. So, the 360 has been on almost 10-12 hours a day since. No burn in.

Image retention is one thing....permanent burn in I have never had. If someone's plasma burnt in after 1 hour, clearly something wrong with it.

I have two plasma televisions, both 50", purchased roughly two years ago. The Pioneer Elite is extremely sensitive to static images and I've basically given up on using it for any kind of gaming. Watching a 30-minute show on Fox pretty much guarantees a couple hours of image retention of the Fox logo in the corner. In general I can only tell if the screen is all grey or white but it's still quite noticeable and very annoying.

My Panasonic on the other hand doesn't appear to suffer from any kind of image retention. At this point I use it exclusively for gaming and HD-DVDs (about 80% gaming, about 20% movies) and I'm not seeing any image retention so far.

I'd still advise LCD for a television if it is going to be dedicated to gaming.

I have a Pio plasma not elite and I game shooters for 6+ hrs no burning. Sometime temporary IR. But that was with Halo 2 and Gears of war. The Ir goes away. Cod 4 no Ir. I have 2 LCD I don't like them for gaming compared to my plasma. My plasma is in game mod with all the setting set at 1/2. For now I prefer gaming on my plasma. But LCDs have come along way and my next TV that would replace my main probably would be a lcd for energy use and weight. They should be equal or better by that time. I have a 1080p Samsung and Toshiba both lcd lag. Sure if you can find one that doesn't which may ppl claim. Just everyone I one I have seen there's some motion blur to me. But dedicated gaming an lcd would probally be best if you don't detect lcd blur and are hard on your tv. JME

did an HD install at a customers house last night on a newer samsung plasma, by the time i left i could see at LEAST 6 channels or menus still on the screen before i left, just from the hour an a half or so i was there. i was even turning the screen off when i knew a setup menu would be static on the screen for more than a min or two. hell, about halfway through the steelers game, i could still see the score of the redskins game!

checked the menu's, all the burn-in prevention crap was on, pixel shift, etc..... still plenty of image retention and it didnt seem like it was going away any time soon.

did an HD install at a customers house last night on a newer samsung plasma, by the time i left i could see at LEAST 6 channels or menus still on the screen before i left, just from the hour an a half or so i was there. i was even turning the screen off when i knew a setup menu would be static on the screen for more than a min or two. hell, about halfway through the steelers game, i could still see the score of the redskins game!

checked the menu's, all the burn-in prevention crap was on, pixel shift, etc..... still plenty of image retention and it didnt seem like it was going away any time soon.

This was my experience with a Samsung 5054. I've also had a Panasonic 1080p plasma and I currently have a Pioneer 5010. The Panasonic barely had any IR, while I've yet so see any in a few hundred hours on the Pioneer.

I'm not sure why the Samsung had so much but it was awful.

Alot of the people who have had issues with gaming IR on plasma bought their sets a couple years ago. The newer displays seem to have come a long way.

did an HD install at a customers house last night on a newer samsung plasma, by the time i left i could see at LEAST 6 channels or menus still on the screen before i left, just from the hour an a half or so i was there. i was even turning the screen off when i knew a setup menu would be static on the screen for more than a min or two. hell, about halfway through the steelers game, i could still see the score of the redskins game!

checked the menu's, all the burn-in prevention crap was on, pixel shift, etc..... still plenty of image retention and it didnt seem like it was going away any time soon.
Dunno a gamer HT installer knows a Plasma need to be broke in for 200 hr to prevent burn in. Get calibrated ect. I had 2 plasmas. My first one would get IR 5 yrs old. My Pio is a year old I game for hours and hours but olny shooters. No burn in. I have two 1080p lcd now. I still prefer gaming on my plasma because I see the ghosting on the lcd. But I dunno why the Samsung would get static image unless all the settings were turned all the way up? If I saw that I probably would take it back. Personally I've never had problems gaming on my plasma. I wouldn't play arcade games on it.Some ppl probably wouldn't what a tv you need to baby just to game then I would get another type. But to ME it's worth it. JME

This was my experience with a Samsung 5054. I've also had a Panasonic 1080p plasma and I currently have a Pioneer 5010. The Panasonic barely had any IR, while I've yet so see any in a few hundred hours on the Pioneer.

I'm not sure why the Samsung had so much but it was awful.

Alot of the people who have had issues with gaming IR on plasma bought their sets a couple years ago. The newer displays seem to have come a long way.

I thought Samsungs had a game mode? The setting are tuned 1/2 way?? Plasmas can all get IR. i would get one if i like arcade and rpg games. Shooters are fine IME. I do like my LCD tv= lighter look good. Just the ghosting really bothers me. I can see it I don't care if others can't.But IMO LCD have come along way

I had IR for a few days when I first bought my Panny 9uk from playing way too much Madden...

I got bored with Madden, the IR went away and haven't had an issue since.

Pio 5070 here. Game for hours with Wii, PS3, 360, and PC. No burn in but have had some image retention which disappears in minutes.

Highly recommend getting a plasma if you want the best in image quality. I have owned CRT, RP, and plasma within the past year and there is simply no comparison. I would not get an lcd because they are clearly inferior in picture quality and introduce gaming lag. But, the lcd's are getting better of course.

I can only recommend Panny or Pio judging with my own eyes.

btw, you will not regret going bigger. My 50" is great, but my next display will be a 1080p plasma and it will be GREATER THAN 60".

Pio 5070 here. Game for hours with Wii, PS3, 360, and PC. No burn in but have had some image retention which disappears in minutes.

Highly recommend getting a plasma if you want the best in image quality. I have owned CRT, RP, and plasma within the past year and there is simply no comparison. I would not get an lcd because they are clearly inferior in picture quality and introduce gaming lag. But, the lcd's are getting better of course.

I can only recommend Panny or Pio judging with my own eyes.

btw, you will not regret going bigger. My 50" is great, but my next display will be a 1080p plasma and it will be GREATER THAN 60".

I also have the Pio 5070 and I've gamed on it for 8 hours straight (not just me, friends come over too). I have not seen any IR after my gaming. And I'm with you too, my next TV will be a 1080p 50 in or larger....Pio of course!

Does anybody here have experience with 1080p vs. 720p at 6-7 feet viewing distance on a plasma or LCD?

"Does anybody here have experience with 1080p vs. 720p at 6-7 feet viewing distance on a plasma or LCD?"

The 3rd factor in question is size of display. Without that info, you can not have an answer. :) At 42" you would be hard pressed to ever tell a difference. At 100", you could tell pretty easy.

Im also a heavy gamer, and i dont see a hing of IR, i have the panasonic 700U, like many had said before i think with the newer models its become a thing of the past.

"Does anybody here have experience with 1080p vs. 720p at 6-7 feet viewing distance on a plasma or LCD?"

The 3rd factor in question is size of display. Without that info, you can not have an answer. :) At 42" you would be hard pressed to ever tell a difference. At 100", you could tell pretty easy.

I was thinking 42" - that is good to know :)

I thought Samsungs had a game mode? The setting are tuned 1/2 way?? Plasmas can all get IR. i would get one if i like arcade and rpg games. Shooters are fine IME. I do like my LCD tv= lighter look good. Just the ghosting really bothers me. I can see it I don't care if others can't.But IMO LCD have come along way

Samsung had a game mode but it didn't help.

I have a Pioneer Elite Pro-110fd. I ran the break in DVD for 200 hours, and am currently using D-Nice's reference settings (including using the orbiter).

I haven't seen a hint of IR after 7 hours of football, or after 4 hour gaming sessions.

If you are a moderate gamer (i.e. don't play the same online shooter for 20 hours a week, for 6 weeks straight), turn down the contrast, and use the anti-burn in features (i.e. the orbiter) - a 8G Pioneer Plasma should work fine.

did an HD install at a customers house last night on a newer samsung plasma, by the time i left i could see at LEAST 6 channels or menus still on the screen before i left, just from the hour an a half or so i was there. i was even turning the screen off when i knew a setup menu would be static on the screen for more than a min or two. hell, about halfway through the steelers game, i could still see the score of the redskins game!

checked the menu's, all the burn-in prevention crap was on, pixel shift, etc..... still plenty of image retention and it didnt seem like it was going away any time soon.

That's pretty much my Samsung experience, even after a couple of weeks of break-in and dimming all the settings. I've always wondered if my bad experience was an isolated case but some of the posts on this thread make me think it was a more widespread issue. As to the TV's game mode; I tried that but it didn't help in the slightest - all it seemed to do was turn off any image post-processing that the TV did to speed up response time.

It's really too bad because the Sammy 5054 had a beautiful picture with really vibrant colors and inky blacks. The range of image tweaking options were pretty much unmatched as well. But the IR was so bad, all I could have used it for was DVD playback.

My experiences with a Samsung Plasma pretty much the same. I returned for an LCD also. I had a 4233 Plasma. Lots of IR and I could see the guitar hero score meter for weeks with just a few hours of play. I tired EVERYTHING to rid of it.

Although a some of us HAVE had problems, I have read NUMEROUS posts from others with ZERO problems. Sounds like staying away from Sammy for a plasma is sound advice. Get a Panny or Pio and hope for the best. It may be the best thing ever for you.

Maybe IR is something that doesn't bother some people or they may not even notice? Mine was HORRIBLE and I am not sure how anyone can deal with or not notice something like IR.

Good luck to the OP if you do get one. I wish mine didn't have IT as the picture was WONDERFUL!

Ive had a Sammy FPT5084 for over three months. Heavy gaming (i.e, 5-6 hours daily). Plenty of static images (COD4, football,etc)

No issues at all. I get IR, but it is easily removed using the "Screen White" option. The image (and size) is a huge upgrade over my previous Sharp Aquos 32.

Highly recommended from this user.

i broke mine in like this.

150 hours, break in dvd. Just leave it on over night for a while

I did start gaming on it almost asap. Could not resist, but only for 45 mins at a time. image retention was very sensitive the first 500 hrs so I kept contrast/brightness down. After 1000 hours, no issues, occassional image retention..ie, I've gone through stranglehold 3 times this week, I can see a slight image retention on it..watched something else...gone.

If you buy a modern quality Plasma, you should not have any issues. The technology has greatly improved over the last few years, here is my story:

2 years ago I bought a Toshiba 42" on clearance, so we can assume the technology was at least 3 years old (if not more). A few times my wife fell asleep watching a cable news channel, and one of the logos burned in. It eventually faded somewhat, but depending on what colors are in the background you can sometimes see some ghosting. Also whenever we watch that channel for 30 minutes or so, then it seems to reivigorate the burn-in effect.

Last year I bought a 50" Pioneer, it was a fairly new model. I have left Guitar Hero on for hours, and not seen a single ghost of any sort. I have paused a football game and accidentally left the TV on for over an hour, again no ghosting. I did get some very minor ghosting from watching TV shows in natural full frame mode, but that went away within days of returning to stretch-O-vision.

I say go for it, I still prefer Plasmas.

Panny plasma owner here. Game on it extensively, watch lots of TV, movies, no 4:3 content...pleased with the way Panny resizes 4:3 images so it doesn't really look too distorted.

No Burn-in. Do see image retention that resolves as the phosphors cool down though the room has to be completely dark to see this. Though sometimes it's hard to see and I wonder if it's just the "after image" effect on my retina from looking at a bright picture in a dark room effect. :p

I got permanent burn-in on my brand new Panny 700 plasma after 1 hour of Team Fortress 2. I could see the HUD clearly on any programming for a week afterwards. I could clearly see the scoreboard, my health box and my ammo box. It didn't even fade a bit.


I thought you had a 77U?

I thought you had a 77U?
Sorry, you're right! I did. I returned it a month ago and had forgotten, but it was def. a 77u.

Ponder no more! My 60" Pioneer 6010 Kuro will be here next Monday!

Thanks to all for the advice! The 'pictures of your setup' thread should be updated in a week or so!

Ponder no more! My 60" Pioneer 6010 Kuro will be here next Monday!

Thanks to all for the advice! The 'pictures of your setup' thread should be updated in a week or so!

Congrats Stangs, I am so jealous and a 60" to boot...you bastard ;)
You're going to love that TV!

Is that a mulie or a whitetail in your pic (or neither)?

Ponder no more! My 60" Pioneer 6010 Kuro will be here next Monday!

Wow! congrats. You better not live in a trailer cause that would be absurd..lol.

Hi everyone,
Plasma owner here ...
YES!! I did have "temporary burn-in". About 20 hours of careful proper usage (no black pillars, bars, low contrast 40, low brightness 25, some playback of the break-in CD found on this forum) my sister and her hubby show up and we play 6 straight hours of Guitar Hero with the contrast and brightness slightly up (50 & ~32). After they left and I turned off the xbox and I noticed the outline of the Rockmeter, scoreboard and ferrets on my screen! I freaked out (a little) and immediately started looping the break-in CD, but after an hour I resigned to the fact I should have been more careful and it was permanent (a could still see it after an hour)! For the next 40 hours or so I kept the brightness and contrast low and played TF2 (a little), COD4 (finished single-player), some Guitar Hero and a few movies. I occasionally played with the screen stretched so that the HUD’s weren’t in the exact spot. Also after long sessions I used the “washout” feature. I was taking these pre-cautions as I didn’t want additional burn-in.

Two weeks later I noticed that there was NO image burn-in, at all! The outlines from Guitar Hero had disappeared. Since then I’ve increased the contrast to my personal tastes about 68 and brightness about 35 but higher depending on ambient/room lighting/media. I’ve had several long sessions of gaming and no burn-in and NO temporary retention either.

My advice, get a good plasma, BUT burn-in is NOT a thing of the past. I’ve seen burn-in on a Pioneer at Best Buy but that’s because the idiots kept the display on a DVD startup menu for a week. If you are relatively careful you’ll be fine.

BTW I have a Samsung 4264 - great piciture, zero issues (on my set)

You didn't have burn in ali, that's image retention. Not to mention, 20 hours is not a long enough break in period for a new plasma...

Same as ali - the only game that's caused serious IR on my 42" Panny is Guitar Hero. The outline of the score/multiplier box really tends to burn. Mine is well broken-in, but after a long GHII session, that image still stuck around for a few days (and some cycle time on my break-in DVD) before it faded away. The lesson is to just be careful and vary up your content a bit, and you should be safe...

My advice, get a good plasma, BUT burn-in is NOT a thing of the past. I’ve seen burn-in on a Pioneer at Best Buy but that’s because the idiots kept the display on a DVD startup menu for a week.


its illegal for them to play dvds and against policy, i find it hard to believe that not a single ht employee didn't have the smarts to take this dvd out. (due to which ever reason...)

anyways, the longer you "retain" your image, the longer it takes to go away. it seems pioneer and also panasonic handle IR as good as any.

The lesson is to just be careful and vary up your content a bit, and you should be safe...I learned a different lesson: Get a TV where you don't have to worry and can watch what you want when you want. :p ;)

I'll admit the Panny plasma looked better then the Sammy LCD I'm running now (for cable and movies anyway - games looked about the same), but since I use xbox 80% of the time on the TV, I wanted something I wouldn't lose sleep over. My friends and I have been known to have 8-10 hour marathon TF2, Halo and Guitar Hero sessions. I didn't want to feel like I had to go watch a movie and come back to protect my TV.

to kjr39 (Post 63) - Yes in hindsight I realize that it was not burn-in but rather image retention. But at THAT time I thought otherwise. Sorry my post was kind of confusing!

to dj_james (post 65) - Why would showing a movie be illegal? I live in Canada, BTW. Also, I should point my error, the Pioneer plasma I saw was at Futureshop (which is owned by Best Buy).

to KamikazeNY (post 66) - I felt the same way but a (slightly) better picture quality and better response time led me to the other side of the fence. In the end we are all consumers and have different tastes and priorities.

BTW, my friends and I played 5 hours straight of Rockband last night and no image retention. After we finished playing I ran the scrolling screen wash feature for 15 minutes, no biggie for me.

10 hrs straight for over a year on my Pio plasma on boring days no problem. I have two 40" lcds also but like gaming on the plasma better.

pio 6070 here. on my days off i game for like 10 hours straight. never experienced IR or burn-in. i do use d-nice's settings and i did "break-in" my tv with slightly reduced brightness and contrast.

im a pioneer purchaser for life now.

fyi - im totally jealous ur getting the 6010. enjoy it.

I have the Pioneer 6010 and game on it for hours and hours at a time, same game, no breaks/changes. No IR. I look religously too, in multiple different ways, no IR. Stunning set. Best looking graphics I have ever seen on a TV. The colors pop, the blacks are incredible. I LOVE gaming on a plasma.

ali1800- it could be considered "public viewing" if the whole movie plays at a bby store. i also know that it is strictly against bby policies and peoples jobs would be at stake. i do think that it is ok to show short clips to demo product but i may be wrong on that...

I'm glad that so many of you have had trouble free experiences gaming on your plasmas. I know what a pain home theater problems are and I don't wish that upon anyone. I'll just offer to anyone still in the market for a TV that it was the numerous trouble-free reports that convinced me to get a plasma in the first place. I was just one of the unlucky ones. From the poll on this thread it looks like 5% of owners have experienced permanent burn-in and while that's a very, very low percentage it still shows burn-in can be a problem.

It looks like most of the people reporting no problems own a Pioneer display and perhaps the Pioneers are less susceptible to burn-in then the Panasonic I owned.

rockin the 50" panny 700u and love it.

Well you can't put the genie back in the bottle. Once the misinformation about burn-in on plasma (which was a "this TV's too expensive so I need to justify why NOT to buy one so I don't look like a buster") came out years ago, it stuck (no pun intended).

Fact is unless you are truly mentally challenged you will not have burn-in on your plasma. Reduce contrast to less than 50%, and after 60 days you should have a pretty bulletproof set.

What I'd like to know is....what is the average life span of a plasma TV? If I watch 6 to 10 hours of TV a day, how long will a plasma set last me?

Fact is unless you are truly mentally challenged you will not have burn-in on your plasma. Reduce contrast to less than 50%, and after 60 days you should have a pretty bulletproof set.
Dude, that's just rude.

I broke it in properly for 200 hours and never had the contrast above 50%.

Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen to other responsible owners.

"how long will a plasma set last me?"

As long as any other HD technology. Something that is common to all HD display types will die on you before anything plasma specific will. Things like a jack physicly breaking, the power supply dying, a chip frying will happen before the phosphers are worn down enough to make the display useless.

Dude, that's just rude.

I broke it in properly for 200 hours and never had the contrast above 50%.

Just because it didn't happen to you doesn't mean it didn't happen to other responsible owners.

LOL I wasn't referring to the OP:D

I'm just saying that it's really hard to burn it in unless you try, or don't adequately "train" other family members what not to do.

I would love to get the Kuro but I wish it came 65" or bigger.

"how long will a plasma set last me?"

As long as any other HD technology. Something that is common to all HD display types will die on you before anything plasma specific will.

And yet the myths persist. "I heard from my brother Billy Bob's third cousin removed that these things only last 3,000 hours" (of course confusing bulb life on a DLP with a panel display :rolleyes:).

Deal with the idiocy everyday and you'll have no patience over the issue either. I don't think it will ever go away, and it's an issue of not wanting to find out the information since it's so prevalent.

I would venture to guess that 95% of plasma myths originated back in the days where most couldn't afford them and had to create reasons why they "didn't want one".

With that said, pay close attention to the warranty you are getting with the set you choose. I know Pioneer is in-home parts and labor, which I probably don't have to explain the importance of.