I've read up on Major Nelson's site that XBL gold members are goign to be compensated for the ecent XBL connection troubles.Has anyone else heard this or have any idea what they will compensate us with.Supposably it's not going to simply be a time credit.

I would assume you'll get an email to the address you registered with Live, so why not just find out with the rest of us?

lol I emailed MS for compensation for the time my 360 was out for RROD bc I told them they did that for my friend so hopefully I'll get double the compensation.

I think compensation is only right considering how long XBL has been off and on this time. I think off an on is more frustrating than just OFF.

There's nothing official about this posted on majornelson.com (http://www.majornelson.com) or his twitter stream (http://twitter.com/majornelson), but numerous sites have reported it as a rumor.

I think its a great idea. People are pissed for 2 reasons:

1) We pay for this shyt.. I'm sorry but if its free I can forgive you. If I'm paying I better be playing. Nuff said.. Whenever I see complaints about things on the Playstation network.. I'm like why are people complaining.. its free.. you should be happy to get anything.

2) Its the holidays and many had the week off.. or recieved new 360's and/or new games. How much does it suck to get an amazing gift for xmas.. and not be able to use it. Or having entirely too valuable free time from the job/life to game.. and not being able too. I was really really pissed I couldnt get a stable enough connection on LIVE to get to prestige mode in COD4. And I"m so close.. level 55 with 1900XP points left to go.


I think we should definitely get more than just more time on LIVE. All gold members should recieve 1 month of extended live membership because they pay for LIVE membership by the month.. but beyond that **ALL** members should recieve 200 points or so. The reason why I say all is because advertised features with the Silver membership were not working either.

Not to mention they could actually make some bucks. You give a guy 200 points.. its still not enough to buy a 400 point game. So he has go purchase 200 points somewhere else. It will open a new experience to those not used to purchasing digital goods with points.. Kinda like your neighborhood drug dealer giving your first taste for free. He knows you will be back.

Also if your pay service isnt going to be dependable.. or compensate you when it doesnt work.. then it only gives your customers one more reason to look at why they are paying for a service.. when they can get it somewhere else for free.

Well lets see.

When my cable goes out I call and get credited for time without service.
When my internet goes down I call and get credited for time without service.
When my Cell phone isn't working I call and get credited for time without service.

So why not with XBOX live?

How do we even complain about the service?

Some of you guys are nuts. One month free? 200 points? That's out of whack.

The idea that PSN is free is out of whack, too. Do you think it costs nothing to run? Sony just includes the cost with its console. MS charges separately. They're different business models, but anyone using either gaming network is paying for it--whether that's on the front end or the back end really doesn't matter.

This has become a nation of people who feel entitled. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

Also if your pay service isnt going to be dependable.. or compensate you when it doesnt work.. then it only gives your customers one more reason to look at why they are paying for a service.. when they can get it somewhere else for free.

I don't mean to be facetious, but you in fact can't go someplace else and get this service. PS3's service is free, but the implication is there are games you would like play to start with--not to mention the other services.

This IMO is a critical problem here. With cable, you always have satellite to hold over their heads, etc. What alternatives are true equivalents to XBL that you would REALLY be interested in?

Some of you guys are nuts. One month free? 200 points? That's out of whack.They're different business models, but anyone using either gaming network is paying for it--whether that's on the front end or the back end really doesn't matter.

This has become a nation of people who feel entitled. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

...Not to mention the sheer reality of the fact that XBL really could tell numerous people to kick rock and not miss a beat.

Entitled? Since when does asking for a reimbursement after a service you pay for.. that hasnt worked as promised the entire week of xmas pathetic?

How much do you think it really costs MS to give a customer a month of live free. Or 200 points?

Where did I say PSN was costs nothing to run? Check my posts history and read my speeches on how nothing is free. But thats exactly why I hold LIVE to a much higher standard than I do PSN. Because PSN doesnt require additional monthly fees. If I'm not paying those fees.. then how can I complain.

And say what you want about the "included cost of the PSN network". But you are talking about a console thats offers more alot more hardware features for an extra $50 bucks more than a premium 360. I thought I'd never see the day I'd be defending the PS3.. as I am without a doubt 360-biased.. but dont think for a second I wont heavily criticize LIVE when it doesnt work for an extended period of time.

This isnt a 1 hour or 1 day outage we are talking about. I have been having problems all week. I dont know about you.. but I dont get too many opportunities to do nothin to do but lay around on the couch all week and play videogames. It was very, very frustrating not being able to play online as promised during those times.

I don't mean to be facetious, but you in fact can't go someplace else and get this service. PS3's service is free, but the implication is there are games you would like play to start with--not to mention the other services.

This IMO is a critical problem here. With cable, you always have satellite to hold over their heads, etc. What alternatives are true equivalents to XBL that you would REALLY be interested in?



...Not to mention the sheer reality of the fact that XBL really could tell numerous people to kick rock and not miss a beat.

1) Unless you are referring to console exclusives.. the PSN network plays every multiplatform just as well as the LIVE service. Granted you dont have the in game messenging, chat options and as much voice support. But if your job is go play online with your console.. the PSN does that just fine. Is PSN the best experience.. of course not.. is it free.. absolutely.

2) Telling numerous people to "kick rocks" is not a great business model. While that sounds all fine and dandy in the internet forum la-la land.. the truth is in this day and time of providing and experience/service/product that heavily depends on the internet. Then both positive and negative information about that product will be easily found and discussed on the internet.

The same way they bite the nail.. and extended the warranty 3 years to address the RROD problems.. because the general consensus is the product was faulty.. is the same way their customers expect to them to "warranty" the LIVE experience we pay for.. If it doesnt work.. fix it. And while its not working.. I shouldnt be paying for it. In theory we arent asking for a "free" month. In theory we are asking for a refund on the time we have lost not being able to use a service we pay for.

Daekwan - In pricinciple, I agree with you. However, the only problem I've had with Live this week was with COD4. I didn't even realize there were problems until I tried playing COD4 online and this is apparently COD4's fault as Halo3 played wonderfully every time I tried to play. Even COD4 worked enough for me to log over 9 hours of online play and rank from a 1 to a 29. Those buying a 360 and not being able to go online and set up the Live membership aren't out any money. I'm wondering how many people weren't able to play online this past week.

If Live costs $50 a year and it was down for a week, should MS give everyone who has a membership $1?

Entitled? Since when does asking for a reimbursement after a service you pay for.. that hasnt worked as promised the entire week of xmas pathetic?

How much do you think it really costs MS to give a customer a month of live free. Or 200 points?

So you can't play video games the way you want to for one week, and you feel that MS should give up 1/12 of their annual subscription income plus a few million dollars? Nah, there's nothing nutty about that. Nothing at all. There's no sense of entitlement at play there. Nope. No sir.

The fact that you can't see it speaks volumes about your attitude.

So you can't play video games the way you want to for one week, and you feel that MS should give up 1/12 of their annual subscription income plus a few million dollars? Nah, there's nothing nutty about that. Nothing at all. There's no sense of entitlement at play there. Nope. No sir.

The fact that you can't see it speaks volumes about your attitude.

why are you attacking this man? he believes if he pays for something, he should receive it. because he doesnt have xbot colored glasses on doesnt make him a person with a bad attitude. if you dont care that it is down, fine. there are a bunch of others that do get po'd if they are not getting what they pay for. it is a "right" as a consumer, not an act of entitlement.
i believe some people just like to get on a forum to argue.

Word is MN and e will be doing the show this week to fill us in on what went wrong. I guess we will hear soon enough.

This has become a nation of people who feel entitled. Pretty pathetic, if you ask me.

Entitled? Sure, we are entitled to the service we paid for and haven't got. Thus at the least we should get credited for the days it was down.

Just like I do if my cable, internet or cell phone go down. We pre pay for those just like we do for live, and when it doesn't work we deserve some money back or extra days for free as we didn't get the service we paid for.

Nothing pathetic about wanting to get what you paid for, or to get money back when you don't.

Entitled? Sure, we are entitled to the service we paid for and haven't got. Thus at the least we should get credited for the days it was down.

Just like I do if my cable, internet or cell phone go down. We pre pay for those just like we do for live, and when it doesn't work we deserve some money back or extra days for free as we didn't get the service we paid for.

Nothing pathetic about wanting to get what you paid for, or to get money back when you don't.

Jebus crebus. Some of you guys are really pieces of work. When someone demands far more "compensation" than what they have "lost", yes, there's a strong sense of entitlement at play. Demanding 1 month of free service and 200pts because he couldn't play video games online for a portion of a week? Nah, there's nothing out of whack there.

And yes, we've become a nation of people like that, who feel entitled to all sorts of things when we feel life hasn't been "fair" to us. If a person doesn't care to be labeled that way, they shouldn't publicly demonstrate that attitude.

If a person was to suggest that MS credit people for the amount of actual time that Live! had issues, that'd be entirely reasonable. Demanding far more than that? Ridiculous.

I work as network engineer for a huge financial firm, if the servers were down even an hour we'd lose millions of dollars and people would be getting canned. Thats what backups and virtual servers are for. Day is bad but excusable, a week?? whole team should be replaced by competent workers.

If a person was to suggest that MS credit people for the amount of actual time that Live! had issues, that'd be entirely reasonable. Demanding far more than that? Ridiculous.

Ok, that I get, and I've only said that I'd like days added for each day it had problems.

Though giving more is a good way to win over customer service. I had a lot of problems with Comcast Cable being out last year (had no cable for over a week, no internet for over 2) and they credited that time and gave us a year of HBO for free for our troubles.

I never asked for more than the days to be credited, but giving something extra certainly improved my perception of them and kept me from switching back to DirecTV and DSL which I was strongly considering at the time.

I don't think we're entitled to anything more than getting our counts extended for every day that these problems occur (and continue to occur) but offering a little something extra would be a nice way for them to save face for going down the one week of the year that the most people have extra time off work/school to game. No one's entitled to anything extra, but it would be a good PR move. And they could use it given how they've given us no info on the XBL outages, released a flawed console, are slow as hell in repairing the RROD consoles etc. etc.

Maybe they will give us the 13.8 cents a day that is costs, for each day it was out. LOL.

With that state of mind, Linksys should owe me about $80.

I hate to say it and I probably will never ever say it again.........I agree with 5150.

[/agreeing with 5150]

Not everyone was having problems over the system either. For any smart asses I mean the ones that did actually get on and play without issue :D.

It's more the principle than the actual money. Cable's not that much per day either, but I still call and get credited when it's out for a day or more.

Plus, who's to say this crap won't continue for a month? With no updates whatsoever about the progress, I'm inclined to believe they have major issues that won't be fixed right away.

@5150 -

Obviously you've never worked for any company that has a service that is supposed to be 'dedicated and guaranteed uptime'. That is afterall, why we're paying for live instead of having free service like other consoles provide (*cough* PSN *cough*)

I own two Xbox 360's (one elite one premium) so in turn I purchased two Xbox Live accounts (one for me and one for the wife/guests that visit). If I'm paying $100+ a year for service through M$, I expect that my service have at the VERY LEAST a 99% up-time. Hiccups in service happen and most people are understanding of that. A full week though? If that happened with Comcast or any other pay service, customers would call to cancel their account and get a refund for the service they paid for (As far as I know, Live doesn't offer a refund when purchased).

I'm not saying we deserve to be compensated monetarily (heck, go ahead and do it, each person would get - what; $1.07 for missed time) but they could, AT THE VERY LEAST, offer a crappy XBL game for the frustration and what not. Lets just hope that they man up and take some responsibility for the week of service I missed.

My main problem is the fact that I only play at night-time after my, almost 2 year old, goes to bed. Our 360's are our time to relax, socialize with others online, and enjoy ourselves because having a kid can make you a shut-in. So I had to go a full week without that time (not to mention I had work off due to holidays).

5150 dude get real. No one expects MS to give MONEY out. Just service time. The amount of time Live was having problems would be just fine. How hard do you think that would be? Trust me they do it all the time. As mentioned in an earlier post I know of alot of people who have got compensation because of their RROD (which is more of an issue than just a week of no Live, unless you live super close to a service place).

Its just like calling in to a satellite company and threaten to leave because their HD prices are ridiculous and you like Direct's lineup better. They will offer it free for like 6 months just to keep you buying their regular programming. How much do you think they really lose when alot of people actually call and do the same thing over and over? Not alot dude. Also do you realize just how pissed off people get when something is not working right with their satellite or cable? My dad and I install them all the time and do service work so just looking at that world I could look at a hardcore gamer that uses XBL alot as well and I could see a XBL user going ape **** too.

Me personally? I could care less. It could be off 2 weeks straight and I wouldn't go crazy because I realize its only $50 a yr, so I actually see where your coming from 5150 but the thing is, I realize I'm not the majority and that is the important thing to realize! I've been around the public enough to know what most of them expect. Which is not a bad thing, it eventually increases quality.

I mean jeeze have you even seen the BK commercial about how it would be if there was no whopper? lol I know thats unrealistic but some of them demand the whopper even though its gone and won't leave till they get it.

@5150 -

Obviously you've never worked for any company that has a service that is supposed to be 'dedicated and guaranteed uptime'.

Heh. Little do you know. I used to work in the TV news industry. Nah, no time pressures there.

So, where exactly do you get "dedicated and guaranteed uptime"? Is that actually something that Live! promises? I'd be rather surprised if it were. Or is it just what you assume?

I'm not saying we deserve to be compensated monetarily (heck, go ahead and do it, each person would get - what; $1.07 for missed time) but they could, AT THE VERY LEAST, offer a crappy XBL game for the frustration and what not.

And who's going to pay for that software license for the game? I'd imagine the developers who wrote it will want their cut. Do you think they work for free?

5150 dude get real. No one expects MS to give MONEY out. Just service time.

Actually, daekwon wants a whole month for each and every member. That's 1/12 of MS's revenue for Live! for a year. That certainly does involve a lot of money.

I've got no issues with people wanting to get credit for the time the system was actually down. If you've read what I've written, you'd know that. It's unreasonable demands that I think are silly and childish.

Oh ok, well that in that respect, I agree with you. People wanting a free XBL arcade game, money, MS points, are just being stupid.

I also think that they should only give back the time lost to people that actually call in. I doubt 1/10th of the whole XBL population would call in though, so MS would lose virtually nothing.

I work as network engineer for a huge financial firm, if the servers were down even an hour we'd lose millions of dollars and people would be getting canned. Thats what backups and virtual servers are for. Day is bad but excusable, a week?? whole team should be replaced by competent workers.

I am also a network engineer for a large Wireless company and I completely disagree. Comparing a financial firms network to Live is crazy. The Live network should not be required to be nearly as stable as your network or mine. If it was it would cost them tens of billions instead of hundreds of millions and they would have to charge 100's instead of 10's of dollars.

I think the average individual has no idea what it cost to run a service like Live, the hardware cost is only a small fraction of it. $50/year is nothing and probably doesn't even make up the sales tax on equipment purchases.

Actually, daekwon wants a whole month for each and every member. That's 1/12 of MS's revenue for Live! for a year. That certainly does involve a lot of money.

I've got no issues with people wanting to get credit for the time the system was actually down. If you've read what I've written, you'd know that. It's unreasonable demands that I think are silly and childish.

I agree with this, giving 1 week to the people that call live is about right. It is probably cheaper (no expense for the phone calls) for them to give everyone 2 weeks and be done with it.

The only issue I have with the whole thing is the Arcade games they require you to be signed in to play because of the stupid DRM crap they have when you swap HD's. That is a bigger issue then the service being down a week for multiplayer or movie downloads.

Also, I am sure they lost a ton of money from advertisers as a result of this...

Oh ok, well that in that respect, I agree with you. People wanting a free XBL arcade game, money, MS points, are just being stupid..

Why do I have to be stupid for having an opinion?

For what its worth I make well over 6 figures as Network Engineer in Midtown Manhattan, NYC. Hell driving into Manhattan daily means I pay $6 in tolls, $28 a day for the parking garage and whatever gas money it takes to just to go to work daily. I've owned 2 360's, approximately 16 360 games, several 360 accessories, the original Xbox, about 30 original Xbox games and have been a **PAYING** member of LIVE since the Beta was available on the original Xbox the summer of 2002.

So its not about the measily $3.85 (MSRP value of one month of LIVE) and/or $2.50 (MSRP value 200 MS points) How concerned do you think I truly am about some entity giving me $6.35.. Even still what do you think it costs MS out of pocket to give away a month of LIVE and/or 200 MS points. I'd say easily less than $1 dollar.. Im not looking for free hand out.. Its about keeping your good faith in your customers eyes.. and word of mouth positive about your product, your service and your ability to stand behind that product and a pleasant experience using it.

As others have said its about principle and standing behind your product which is a service you require people to pay for.. If this my cell phone or cable provider that was not working for a week.. this wouldnt even be a conversation as they would have already compensated me and some for the downtime. Xbox LIVE asks me to pay a monthly fee for your service and advertise it as better than what the "other" guy offers for free. And the most important week of gaming I.. and most other Americans I'd imagine.. look forward to using the service the most it doesnt work.

Show your customers you have some type of serious concern.. that you understand their position and that you want them to know you stand behind your product.. And they will remain faithful and loyal. I'm not saying I'm running to pick up a PS3 tonite.. but with the RROD issues.. and LIVE problems this week.. Im starting to get curious about exactly what the competition has to offer me.

Im starting to get curious about exactly what the competition has to offer me.

The grass isn't always greener partner. Live is way better for $50 than PSN is fo' free.

Entitlement. Plain and simple.

As others have said its about principle and standing behind your product which is a service you require people to pay for.. If this my cell phone or cable provider that was not working for a week.. this wouldnt even be a conversation as they would have already compensated me and some for the downtime. Xbox LIVE asks me to pay a monthly fee for your service and advertise it as better than what the "other" guy offers for free. And the most important week of gaming I.. and most other Americans I'd imagine.. look forward to using the service the most it doesnt work.

Show your customers you have some type of serious concern.. that you understand their position and that you want them to know you stand behind your product.. And they will remain faithful and loyal. I'm not saying I'm running to pick up a PS3 tonite.. but with the RROD issues.. and LIVE problems this week.. Im starting to get curious about exactly what the competition has to offer me.


Well said!!

I don't expect anything, nor feel entitled to it.

But it would be good PR, and ease even more ill feelings toward MS I have after this prolonged outage with no official word, ETA on repair etc.

The grass isn't always greener partner. Live is way better for $50 than PSN is fo' free.

The grass is never greener. But it does make me curious to what experience they offer for free.

Competition makes every consumer a winner.

Well said!!

I don't expect anything, nor feel entitled to it.

But it would be good PR, and ease even more ill feelings toward MS I have after this prolonged outage with no official word, ETA on repair etc.

Those screaming entitlement are doing nothing but looking to get the last word in.. And I have no problem with that. I have no problem with someone who doesnt agree with me. I have no problem participating in yet another meaningless internet debate that will have extremely little leverage on what decision MS utimately decides to take on the recent outage problems

The only thing I have a problem with is name calling. And my opinion will not change on what I perceive as GREAT customer service.

Your rationalizations for your need to be soothed are fun to read. Why not call a spade a spade?

Your rationalizations for your need to be soothed are fun to read. Why not call a spade a spade?

It's not a need to be soothed.

It would just be refreshing to see the most evil of evil corporations actually do something to show it cared about it's customers for ONCE.

I don't expect anything, and I won't be pissed off if we don't get anything. It would just be a pleasant surprise is all.

It's not a need to be soothed.

It would just be refreshing to see the most evil of evil corporations actually do something to show it cared about it's customers for ONCE.

I don't expect anything, and I won't be pissed off if we don't get anything. It would just be a pleasant surprise is all.

1. If MS is so evil, why did you support them with your purchases?

They extended the warranties on the the 360s, they gave out free months subscriptions after repairs, they cover shipping and get repairs done in a timely fashion and they work pretty hard at fixing known issues for all of their products.

2. Unless you are a mountain dweller, you would be pretty displeased with most things without the creations of the most evil corp.

Just saying....:confused:

360 has the best software unfortunately. Corporations are necessary. Corporations that ONLY care about their bottom line are not.

It's sad that customer service has become a thing of the past.

And yes they extended the warranty, after over a year of complaints. They had no choice and were facing potential class action law suits. Remember how long they denied having any problems with the 360? And I doubt the people waiting 6-8 weeks for repairs think that's a timely manner. Nintendo generally just sends out a new system right away (and will charge you for it if they don't get yours within 2 weeks--at least that's what they did for my broken DS Lite last fall).

360 has the best software unfortunately. Corporations are necessary. Corporations that ONLY care about their bottom line are not.

It's sad that customer service has become a thing of the past.


Very true on your comment about CS being a thing of the past. Very few places still have it at all.

Do you go to work everyday just to make the people that deal with your company happy or do you go to make money?

There is not one business that cares about anything more than their bottom line. They have stock holders to worry about as well. Stock holders care more about the bottom line than if you get customer service. Any savvy investor would gladly take great returns over poor returns with a smile.

Cheers.

Why do I have to be stupid for having an opinion?

For what its worth I make well over 6 figures as Network Engineer in Midtown Manhattan, NYC. Hell driving into Manhattan daily means I pay $6 in tolls, $28 a day for the parking garage and whatever gas money it takes to just to go to work daily. I've owned 2 360's, approximately 16 360 games, several 360 accessories, the original Xbox, about 30 original Xbox games and have been a **PAYING** member of LIVE since the Beta was available on the original Xbox the summer of 2002.

So its not about the measily $3.85 (MSRP value of one month of LIVE) and/or $2.50 (MSRP value 200 MS points) How concerned do you think I truly am about some entity giving me $6.35.. Even still what do you think it costs MS out of pocket to give away a month of LIVE and/or 200 MS points. I'd say easily less than $1 dollar.. Im not looking for free hand out.. Its about keeping your good faith in your customers eyes.. and word of mouth positive about your product, your service and your ability to stand behind that product and a pleasant experience using it.

As others have said its about principle and standing behind your product which is a service you require people to pay for.. If this my cell phone or cable provider that was not working for a week.. this wouldnt even be a conversation as they would have already compensated me and some for the downtime. Xbox LIVE asks me to pay a monthly fee for your service and advertise it as better than what the "other" guy offers for free. And the most important week of gaming I.. and most other Americans I'd imagine.. look forward to using the service the most it doesnt work.

Show your customers you have some type of serious concern.. that you understand their position and that you want them to know you stand behind your product.. And they will remain faithful and loyal. I'm not saying I'm running to pick up a PS3 tonite.. but with the RROD issues.. and LIVE problems this week.. Im starting to get curious about exactly what the competition has to offer me.

You do realize that your first 2 paragraphs made no sense? You start out by saying you make enough money blah blah blah you dont really need this compensation blah blah blah. Then you go on to say oh wait but it would be nice? Well sir, if you didn't need it and you deep down you really don't care you wouldn't be on here posting about it.

I completely agree with you MS should do something about it... but only for the ones that care enough. I'M saying only the people that call and care enough to get their down time compensated should be the ones that get their time. How many average users do you think actually care enough that would justify MS automatically sending out the compensated time?

Dude I gurantee you that if you call in and ask for some compensation and tell them this was your only time off for a while and you got new games and couldn't play them then they WILL compensate you. I just think it's silly you expect them to send 200 MS points to everyone for really no reason, or compensate this time for everyone.

As said before, not enough people actually CARE... meaning this thread really does not reflect the majority in no way shape or form.

Do you go to work everyday just to make the people that deal with your company happy or do you go to make money?



I do research to make the world a safer place, and I'm working on a Ph D that will pay me a fraction of what I could have made right out of school with a business degree.

^^
Kudos to you. I hope what you are working on makes a profound impact on our world and good luck on your PhD.

I speculate that it is either medical, military-type, or technological work. All of those are the biggest types for maximizing profits.

^^
Kudos to you. I hope what you are working on makes a profound impact on our world and good luck on your PhD.

I speculate that it is either medical, military-type, or technological work. All of those are the biggest types for maximizing profits.

Nope, criminology and criminal justice. :D So no profits there. Social science pays like ****! :D

^^^
True, true.

Dude I gurantee you that if you call in and ask for some compensation and tell them this was your only time off for a while and you got new games and couldn't play them then they WILL compensate you. I just think it's silly you expect them to send 200 MS points to everyone for really no reason, or compensate this time for everyone.

As said before, not enough people actually CARE... meaning this thread really does not reflect the majority in no way shape or form.

Did you bother to read anything I wrote? When did I ever mention calling in and asking for anything. To take things a step further when my launch day 360 premium purchased in 11/05 RROD'd with its measely 90 day warranty in July of 2006. I **paid** out of my personal pocket $125 to have MS fix it.

When the replacement they sent from the original premium RROD'd **AGAIN** in May this year. I **paid** $109 out of my personal pocket to have MS fix it.

I didnt call and question ANYTHING.. or beg for any type of compensation in either of those situations. I paid $224 out of my own pocket to have them service the console not once but TWICE!! And you know what happened.. enough people were upset about the RROD problems and product began to recieve such a bad reputation that all I paid for them to service my 360 twice was refunded when after MS later revised the 360 warranty to 1 year.. and then later revised it again to 3 years for RROD..

Thats what I call GREAT customer service. And that type of great customer service has led me to stay a 360 customer.

Enough so that I then paid again out of pocket to upgrade to the HDMI Elite.. because I deemed it more reliable and worth the upgrade. I didnt ask for any compensation there. I walked down to the local Game store.. took whatever store credit and walked out with my 3rd 360.. You make it seem like I am holding my hand out begging for some sort of freebie welfare gift worth $6.25.. After literally spending $1000's on Xbox consoles, game, accessories etc.. it would be NICE to see the company continue to stand behind their product with good will effort.

So where do you JUMP to the conclusion that I have asked or plan to call and ask for anything. Especially for a customer that has been so loyal through all the 360 growing pains.. they should be ones proactive to keep their customers happy.. not the other way around with customers constantly calling and complaining. The same way they are aware the RROD problem is completely beyond the normal threshold.. I believe they are completely aware that after record sales this Holiday season.. MANY of 360 gamers were dissapointed the service has not worked reliably this week. So take the initiative and impress me. Dont do the bare minimum and come back and say.. well lets see.. you missed 7 days.. so here goes 7 days back. Thanks and goodbye!

Im simply stating what I believe they SHOULD do to keep GOOD FAITH in their product and keep customer morale high. Nobody is asking for any type of handouts. Im not asking you, nor anyone else to agree with me. I'm not saying I'm looking to start some LIVE revolution. But I do recognize what great customer service and what a company should be doing to keep its customers happy.

If I have to sit there and beg for a company to do something they should morally take care of in the 1st place.. and/or they DONT continue to support their product and their customers then my interest in their product will eventually fade. If it was not worth MY time to ask/beg for the $224 in service fees to be refunded.. What on earth makes you think I'm going to call and beg for a measly $6.85?

I just think it would be GREAT customer service again.. if they offered something more meaning than a week of LIVE.. to customers that have continued to support the 360 and Xbox for 7 years now. And customers who are directly responsible for them going from zero percent to 30 of the current marketshare in that timeframe.

Lol did I say you called? No... the keyword was if you called.

Your really confusing by the way, on what you really want... and havn't been consistent in your posts. Your comparing $200 to $6 now and I'm not really seeing the point? (Yes I realize you want good customer service but jeeze dude if you don't care bout the time lost why does it matter... If you cared then you would have your time compensated, plain and simple)

I don't think your seeing my point either. You expect MS to automatically do something about a measly $6 as you put it, yet you really dont care if they do it or not (I mean how could you... it's a measly $6, which by the way is not even the correct amount... it would be more like $1 for the real amount of down time). So if its really worth it to you, you would call in and get your compensation, which could be easily done (easier than getting $200 back)

Also I don't consider charging $200 great customer service because the only reason they refunded you was basically because they had to. People would of been calling off the wall.

Don't get me wrong man, I totally think they should give compensation to people that really care enough! For them to automatically give it out? Um... no... because that would mean they would give it out to EVERYONE, including those that could care less and probably havn't touched their 360 over the holidays anyhow.

Moto..

Real simple this time.

The 360 has a very effed up history when it comes to the reliability area. OK got that part?

MS should be proactive about keeping customers satisified when it comes to ANY thing concerning its reliability.. rather hardware (RROD), software (Remember the scratched up game discs), online (Heavy outages during Xmas week) both right now and in the future. Especially when they want their customers to pay to play online and the competition lets you play online for free.

I'm saying they SHOULD do more than just the bare minimum to keep current customers happy.. and future customers interested. And that anytime there is a reliability problem with the system.. MS should do MORE than the bare minimum to insure that.

Understand?

I think its a great idea. People are pissed for 2 reasons:

1) We pay for this shyt.. I'm sorry but if its free I can forgive you. If I'm paying I better be playing. Nuff said.. Whenever I see complaints about things on the Playstation network.. I'm like why are people complaining.. its free.. you should be happy to get anything.

2) Its the holidays and many had the week off.. or recieved new 360's and/or new games. How much does it suck to get an amazing gift for xmas.. and not be able to use it. Or having entirely too valuable free time from the job/life to game.. and not being able too. I was really really pissed I couldnt get a stable enough connection on LIVE to get to prestige mode in COD4. And I"m so close.. level 55 with 1900XP points left to go.


I think we should definitely get more than just more time on LIVE. All gold members should recieve 1 month of extended live membership because they pay for LIVE membership by the month.. but beyond that **ALL** members should recieve 200 points or so. The reason why I say all is because advertised features with the Silver membership were not working either.

Not to mention they could actually make some bucks. You give a guy 200 points.. its still not enough to buy a 400 point game. So he has go purchase 200 points somewhere else. It will open a new experience to those not used to purchasing digital goods with points.. Kinda like your neighborhood drug dealer giving your first taste for free. He knows you will be back.

Also if your pay service isnt going to be dependable.. or compensate you when it doesnt work.. then it only gives your customers one more reason to look at why they are paying for a service.. when they can get it somewhere else for free.

I agree 100% with you

I've got no issues with people wanting to get credit for the time the system was actually down. If you've read what I've written, you'd know that. It's unreasonable demands that I think are silly and childish.

Not to pick a fight, but what gives you the authority to be the judge of what is reasonable and unreasonable???

A bicyclist cycles into a car. The bicyclist is sued for $8million in damages. Sound unreasonable?

Not if you know that the car window was down and when the bicyclist hit the car his handlebars & levers removed both eyeballs of the man sitting in the drivers seat. Medical bills plus settlement = $8mil.

Simple and legal truth is that you have no right to say what is reasonable or unreasonable unless you have all the facts for all the situations that are occuring.

I think its very reasonable for a person to want a free month of live if they were only able to play on Dec 27th, the first time they had played all December, and the service was down. As a grown adult with responsibilities other than sitting on my ass gaming every night, I can definitely see situations in which this attitude is completely justified.

What isnt right is you being judge and jury of everyone. Get off your high horse.

Moto..

Real simple this time.

The 360 has a very effed up history when it comes to the reliability area. OK got that part?

MS should be proactive about keeping customers satisified when it comes to ANY thing concerning its reliability.. rather hardware (RROD), software (Remember the scratched up game discs), online (Heavy outages during Xmas week) both right now and in the future. Especially when they want their customers to pay to play online and the competition lets you play online for free.

I'm saying they SHOULD do more than just the bare minimum to keep current customers happy.. and future customers interested. And that anytime there is a reliability problem with the system.. MS should do MORE than the bare minimum to insure that.

Understand?

I understood from the get-go. I just don't think this is a major problem for most people as stated earlier, not enough for MS to go out of their way.

Braham, the service was down for like a week max... And most of that time there were alot of users online with no prob

*cough, cough*

Ahem, According to the Xbox Live Terms of use, if you set up a Xbox Live account, you are bound in a contract with Microsoft and must abide by the TOS.

And therefore, according to sections 14 and 16, as I quote:

14. SERVICE OPERATION AND EQUIPMENT
The Service may only be accessed with an original Xbox, an Xbox 360 console, a personal computer or by logging into your account via Xbox.com. You agree that you are using authorized software and hardware to access the Service, and that your software and hardware have not been modified in any unauthorized way (e.g., authorized repairs, upgrades and downloads). Any attempt to disassemble, decompile, create derivative works of, reverse engineer, modify, further sublicense, distribute or use for other purposes either the hardware or software associated with an original Xbox or Xbox 360 console or the Service, is strictly prohibited and may result in cancellation of your account and/or your ability to access the Service, and the pursuit of other legal remedies by Microsoft. Microsoft may take any legal action it deems appropriate against users who violate Microsoft's systems or network security or this contract or any additional terms as described in Section 2 above, and such users may also incur criminal and/or civil liability.

Microsoft reserves complete and sole discretion with respect to the operation of the Service. Microsoft may, among other things: (a) restrict or limit access to the Service; (b) retrieve information from the original Xbox, Xbox 360 console, personal computer and any connected peripheral device used to log onto the Service as necessary to operate and protect the security of the Service, and to enforce this Agreement; and (c) upgrade, modify, withdraw, suspend, or discontinue any functionality or feature of the Service or any game from time to time without notice, which may involve the automatic download of related software directly to your original Xbox, Xbox 360 console or personal computer, and which software may prevent you from accessing the Service, playing pirated games, or using unauthorized peripheral devices.


16. WE MAKE NO WARRANTY
We provide the Service "as-is," "with all faults" and "as available." The Microsoft Parties give no express warranties, guarantees or conditions. You may have additional consumer rights under your local laws that this contract cannot change. To the extent permitted by law, we exclude the implied warranties of merchantability, fitness for a particular purpose, workmanlike effort and non-infringement.

............................Microsoft doesn't owe us anything. We should be happy we'll be getting anything at all. That is all :) lol

Source - http://www.xbox.com/en-US/live/legal/

EDIT--------------------------------------------------------------

Oh god damnit, Microsoft has to go and confuse me now, damnit, urgh

17. LIABILITY LIMITATION; YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY
You can recover from the Microsoft Parties only direct damages up to an amount equal to your Service fee for one month. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
This limitation applies to:
-any matter related to the Service,
-any matter related to content (including code) on third party Internet sites, third party programs or third party conduct,
-any matter related to viruses or other disabling features that affect your access to or use of the Service,
-any matter related to incompatibility between the Service and other services, software and hardware,
-any matter related to delays or failures you may have in initiating, conducting or completing any transmissions or transactions in connection with the Service in an accurate or timely manner, and
-claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.
It also applies even if:
-this remedy does not fully compensate you for any losses, or fails of its essential purpose; or
-Microsoft knew or should have known about the possibility of damages.
Some states do not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental or consequential damages, so the above limitation or exclusion may not apply to you. They also may not apply to you because your province or country may not allow the exclusion or limitation of incidental, consequential or other damages.

I understood from the get-go. I just don't think this is a major problem for most people as stated earlier, not enough for MS to go out of their way.

Braham, the service was down for like a week max... And most of that time there were alot of users online with no prob

No problem dude.. Im not pissed at you or 5150.. just pissed I had all that free time.. literally a week off with nothing to do.. and most of that week LIVE was ****ed up.

When will I ever get another week to lay around doing nothing but gaming, drinking beer, eating leftovers, never having to leave the house, no nagging girlfriend or best of all no staring at the clock trying to figure how much sleep I need before work the next day.

And MS really ruined that week for alot of us. Even more so for those that just got the 360 or a new game for xmas and was anxious to try it out.

I would equate my gaming experience during xmas week.. as planning this great week-long carribean vacation 6 months from now.. and when I finally go on the vacation it freakin rains ALL week. LOL

@5150 -

Obviously you've never worked for any company that has a service that is supposed to be 'dedicated and guaranteed uptime'. That is afterall, why we're paying for live instead of having free service like other consoles provide (*cough* PSN *cough*)

You know what? I'm sick of hearing this. Go sell your 360 and get a PS3. But for reasons that need not be mentioned, you won't.
If I'm paying $100+ a year for service through M$, I expect that my service have at the VERY LEAST a 99% up-time.

I love consumer-defined parameters for service that are based on nothing. Can you please post this equation?:D

Hiccups in service happen and most people are understanding of that. A full week though? If that happened with Comcast or any other pay service, customers would call to cancel their account and get a refund for the service they paid for (As far as I know, Live doesn't offer a refund when purchased).

There's no comparison in service type either. People don't stop driving cars because occasionally they need to be in the shop. Some people expect nothing to break or require maintenance. Again, I wonder where this expectation was set or promised by anyone? Was it assumed?

My main problem is the fact that I only play at night-time after my, almost 2 year old, goes to bed. Our 360's are our time to relax, socialize with others online, and enjoy ourselves because having a kid can make you a shut-in. So I had to go a full week without that time (not to mention I had work off due to holidays).

So basically MS needs to pay child support is what you're saying?

No problem dude.. Im not pissed at you or 5150.. just pissed I had all that free time.. literally a week off with nothing to do.. and most of that week LIVE was ****ed up.

I understand, but I suppose the good news is the console we support is selling so many consoles and gaining new Live members that it clogged the system.:D

Not to pick a fight, but what gives you the authority to be the judge of what is reasonable and unreasonable???

A bicyclist cycles into a car. The bicyclist is sued for $8million in damages. Sound unreasonable?

Not if you know that the car window was down and when the bicyclist hit the car his handlebars & levers removed both eyeballs of the man sitting in the drivers seat. Medical bills plus settlement = $8mil.

Now people are trying to use tort cases in which people suffered actual injury in this argument? That's rather silly, too.

You claim to be a responsible adult, but you're out of whack because a service that you play games through was having network problems? You said people who didn't try to play all month until Dec. 27 deserve a whole month's service? And you speak of reasonableness?

Sorry, but this has become a joke. I can understand being upset about the service being down, but some of you guys really need to get a life.

:rolleyes: at everyone.

I'm sure MS will give something as a peace offering for this. Why not just wait and see what they do before bitching that it's not enough or too much?

:rolleyes: at everyone.

I'm sure MS will give something as a peace offering for this. Why not just wait and see what they do before bitching that it's not enough or too much?Mike LS:

You remain my hero.

Also, congratulations on your 1,000th post (which should be any minute now).

I hope there is something to compensate us.

Braham, the service was down for like a week max... And most of that time there were alot of users online with no prob

How long have I had a 360? One Week. And live hasnt worked reliably yet.

How long have I had a 360? One Week. And live hasnt worked reliably yet.

Well your first month is free so I really don't know what you feel you have lost anyway :D

How long have I had a 360? One Week. And live hasnt worked reliably yet.

Really, seemed fine all last night for me -- seems they've finally fixed the issues. Are you still having problems?

Well your first month is free so I really don't know what you feel you have lost anyway :D

?? My box came with a free Silver membership, I couldnt play online until I bought a gold card... If something was free, I didnt get it.


Really, seemed fine all last night for me -- seems they've finally fixed the issues. Are you still having problems?

I was still having issues last night. Random connection drops while browsing marketplace. Random Matchmaking issues. Random "unable to connect" messages. I finally dropped it and spend my last 20 minutes of the evening finishing Uncharted on PS3.

?? My box came with a free Silver membership, I couldnt play online until I bought a gold card... If something was free, I didnt get it.

When you sign up for the silver you are asked if you'd like to upgrade to Gold. If you decline it says "okay....but here's a free month of Gold for you to try".

So you get a month of Gold free when you create your "silver" account. This works on the Premiums and the Elites, not sure if the Cores/Arcades do it as well.

?? My box came with a free Silver membership, I couldnt play online until I bought a gold card... If something was free, I didnt get it.

Since I bought a second 360 2 months ago I just got around to making a Live gamertag that I was just going to have as a silver account for my bedroom. After creating the account it gave me an option to get a free month of service. So yes you bought a gold card, which you could have simply set it up through the 360. Yes I am sure you weren't aware of it since you bought a card but the option is there.

How long have I had a 360? One Week. And live hasnt worked reliably yet.

Comments like this are why MS will do something for people. If they sat around brainstorming doomsday scenarios, having Live down during the week of Christmas has to be near the top. With all those new people that either cannot set up their accounts or sign up for Gold they know they are losing customers each minute. Wither they just decide that Live is not worth it or take the box back altogether.

Dont do the bare minimum and come back and say.. well lets see.. you missed 7 days.. so here goes 7 days back. Thanks and goodbye!

My degree is in PR (shocking to many here lol), and I will tell you that the best thing is to do precisely that, plus maybe a couple hundred points in credit. Look, people aren't stupid. If you offer a superior service without true competition, that is why people use it. Most rational folks understand that things like this happen. If I worked for them, the release would sound something like this:

"Due to the overwhelming consumer support of Live and the desire for these customers to engage in the best online gaming experience today, Xbox Live experienced a slowdown in service that has since been rectified."

Or something to that effect. And that is the truth. People flocked to engage in the Live experience which ironically crippled it (slightly) for under a week.

Im simply stating what I believe they SHOULD do to keep GOOD FAITH in their product and keep customer morale high.

What on earth makes you think I'm going to call and beg for a measly $6.85?

I see your point about being a long-term member, and so perhaps your compensation should be viewed in a different light. I agree with this, unfortunately MS cannot do this. If they didn't compensate everyone equally, word would spread like wildfire and the problem would become exponentially worse. Fairness you see is relative, and certainly subjective. In this handout society we live in, everyone tends to think they deserve the same as everyone else. This is why you see punk kids graduating college and expecting six-figure incomes for 30k jobs.

The last time I looked, I think MS had about $60B in cash in the bank. Yup, that is cash. If they want to compensate me for the loss, or interrupted service, that is fine with me.

If they don't want to credit me, that is fine too.

Sometimes, my car doesn’t start in the cold. Sometimes, my coffee from Dunkin Donuts taste’s like crap. Sometimes, a light bulb burns out in my house. Sometimes, I show up for a doctor’s appointment and I have to wait for 30 minutes. Sometimes, my PC crashes. Sometimes, my cell phone drops a call. Etc., etc., etc….

And, yes, sometimes, I log onto XBL and it doesn’t work so I read a book. Oh well.

Live was junk again last night. Another oblivion night, not that it's a big deal or anything, but I haven't played COD4 in the longest time. Someone needs to crack the whip over there and get this service up and running ASAP. I've got lots going on in my life and what have you and don't sit in front of my projector playing videogames all my life, but when the service isn't there when I want it and I'm paying for it, it does annoy me and this feeling is growing with each day that passes.

I am playing Call of Duty now. Been back up since Monday no problems since.

The last time I looked, I think MS had about $60B in cash in the bank. Yup, that is cash. If they want to compensate me for the loss, or interrupted service, that is fine with me.

If they don't want to credit me, that is fine too.

Sometimes, my car doesn’t start in the cold. Sometimes, my coffee from Dunkin Donuts taste’s like crap. Sometimes, a light bulb burns out in my house. Sometimes, I show up for a doctor’s appointment and I have to wait for 30 minutes. Sometimes, my PC crashes. Sometimes, my cell phone drops a call. Etc., etc., etc….

And, yes, sometimes, I log onto XBL and it doesn’t work so I read a book. Oh well.

Oh well?! Thankfully, the majority of hardworking consumers don't share your "whatever" type of attitude. There are lots of things that we can't control, including network malfunctions. But, to be so soft about a paid service is irresponsible as a consumer. Yep, sometimes cell phone calls drop, that doesn't mean I shouldn't get upset and look for alternatives. If you don't care for reimbursements or to be taken seriously as a paying customer then great, just give YOUR money away. I may not be planning a lawsuit (although, I wouldn't exactly fault anyone for doing so), but I can't just say oh well, and pick up a book, knowing MS has my money, but I don't have what I paid for. I don't worry too much about what I can't control. But, when paying for something, that's a whole different thing. It's about respect. I have enough respect for myself to either demand I get what I paid for, or demand my money be refunded, or some compromise is made. No way will I just roll over and be so freely accepting of dissappointment with my money involved. As a gamer, I would think that you would easily understand. We're not talking about 1 dropped call or stale coffee! This is an on-going problem for gamers. I understand that this may not be a big issue to you, but to some it is, and you should be more supporting of others important issues, if you want support for what's important to you.

Mike LS:

You remain my hero.

Also, congratulations on your 1,000th post (which should be any minute now).

I'm a hero....HA!! :D

I've since changed my mind and demand that Microsoft pay me one beeeelion dollars as compensation for my off-time being ruined because Live decided to take a huge Christmas day dump.

....and here's to a 4 digit post count. Only took like 6 years :rolleyes:

why are you attacking this man? he believes if he pays for something, he should receive it. because he doesnt have xbot colored glasses on doesnt make him a person with a bad attitude. if you dont care that it is down, fine. there are a bunch of others that do get po'd if they are not getting what they pay for. it is a "right" as a consumer, not an act of entitlement.
i believe some people just like to get on a forum to argue.


Just do a search of 5150's posts, and you will see why he is "attacking" this man. Just take him with a grain of salt. As I have surfed the forums over the holidays I have seen many people shake their head in disbelief at how he likes to post with an attitude. He seems to get some 'thrill' out of mocking others, or speaking with what he sees as more authority. It is funny, it wasn't until recently that I saw his posts and the people who questioned them. And now I find myself seeing it again. :confused:

Back on topic, bottomline we pay for the service. There have been issues since just before or right at Christmas and they are still acting up, as late as last night (Jan 2). Even MS is doing a spin by updating the status of live to "up and running" but then they offer a disclaimer where certain things may not work properly. What is up with that.

I think to ask for each day back is not without merit, or some MS points to put towards an XBL game or content of somekind. MS needs to step up to the plate and say sorry to all those that have been a paying customer of Live. People took time off to be with family and play their consoles and new games over the holidays, and they have had difficulties for quite some time now.

I hope they get things smoothed out soon.

Outtie

You know what? I'm sick of hearing this. Go sell your 360 and get a PS3. But for reasons that need not be mentioned, you won't.

I love consumer-defined parameters for service that are based on nothing. Can you please post this equation?:D

There's no comparison in service type either. People don't stop driving cars because occasionally they need to be in the shop. Some people expect nothing to break or require maintenance. Again, I wonder where this expectation was set or promised by anyone? Was it assumed?

So basically MS needs to pay child support is what you're saying?


Your whole post is full of ignorance. What would be right is for Microsoft to acknowledge the issue (already done to an extent), correct the issue (had more issues last night, called Microsoft and they're fully aware of problem - still!), and *possibly* give compensation for time lost.

As stated by someone above, in the ToS they specifically state:

17. LIABILITY LIMITATION; YOUR EXCLUSIVE REMEDY
You can recover from the Microsoft Parties only direct damages up to an amount equal to your Service fee for one month. You cannot recover any other damages, including consequential, lost profits, special, indirect or incidental damages.
This limitation applies to:
-any matter related to the Service,
-any matter related to content (including code) on third party Internet sites, third party programs or third party conduct,
-any matter related to viruses or other disabling features that affect your access to or use of the Service,
-any matter related to incompatibility between the Service and other services, software and hardware,
-any matter related to delays or failures you may have in initiating, conducting or completing any transmissions or transactions in connection with the Service in an accurate or timely manner, and
-claims for breach of contract, breach of warranty, guarantee or condition, strict liability, negligence, or other tort to the extent permitted by applicable law.
It also applies even if:
-this remedy does not fully compensate you for any losses, or fails of its essential purpose

So in turn, Microsoft admits, through ToS that due to the outage we deserve compensation if requested.

Color me purple, but isn't that what my original post what all about. I don't expect anything more than an acknowledgment of the problem and a fix. Anything beyond that is good PR (which Microsoft is lacking).

As for Microsoft paying for child support.... are you serious? I guess you don't have children and thus enjoy any/all time you get to enjoy yourself. I guess it's hard to post my opinionated post to ignorant individuals that can't see others views (even if they're not in the same situation).

Just because you don't value your time as much as me, doesn't mean that I don't have a right to voice my opinion on that matter and show how it has effected me this past week. Take the stick out your butt and actually take a minute to read my post.

I have always been a supporter of Microsoft (umm, I own 3 of their consoles; 2 360's and 1 Original Xbox) and I enjoy their products, I just feel that they need to step it up as a company and admit some responsibility as well as fix the issue that is at hand.

So in turn, Microsoft admits, through ToS that due to the outage we deserve compensation if requested.

You are not an attorney. :cool:

Your whole post is full of ignorance.

Which means my comments hit too close to home, but go on...

My point simply is that MS cannot take individual circumstances into account when determining compensation. If that's lost on you, then not much I can do here.

oops wrong thread...

I don't get why some people think it is ok to not deliver what you are suppose to. Just becuause it is "not a long time" does not make it ok. If the bank took 1 cent out of every check cashed, would that make it ok? We all pay $50 per year for a service. We are not getting that service right now. I understand problems happen, but microsoft needs to acknowledge the problem and let us know they are trying to fix it. We all should have a message in our live mail box with some kind of statement about the problems.

A statement telling you that there are problems and that they are working on them? Gosh, that'd really inform us of things.

A statement telling you that there are problems and that they are working on them? Gosh, that'd really inform us of things.

Ok, so it is better to just not say anything at all, right? Are you thinking along the lines of, if we never say anything maybe they will not notice? Gosh, that'd really be the best way to handle it.

You are not an attorney. :cool:

Once again, putting words in my mouth. Did I state that I was an attorney? Is it THAT hard to read the black and white print on your screen. I COPY and PASTED, verbatim, the article in question from Terms of Service. How does that make one a attorney?

Which means my comments hit too close to home, but go on...

My point simply is that MS cannot take individual circumstances into account when determining compensation. If that's lost on you, then not much I can do here.

@schticker:

The only reason I even offered you a response is to bring to light the fact that all of what you said is one-sided. Not everyone has the luxury to play whenever they want and to do it in peace. (I have a job, school, wife, child, and more - whatever time I can play, I enjoy it!) I don't care that Microsoft doesn't offer personalized compensation. I'm expecting a statement from them acknowledging the problem and hopefully a fix as well. (I've had problems as late as last night. Nothing today *crosses fingers*)

The whole point of my post was to say, each of us have our own circumstances surrounding this outage, but almost all of us are united in wanting:

1) Answers
2) Compensation (not necessarily monetarily, hell, I'd be happy with a simple apology right now. Major Nelson's apology doesn't count - Last time they've had a big screw up, I got a message in my email from Xbox Live (crackdown anyone?) apologizing for the problem, letting us know when it would be resolved (I can't emphasize enough how important this was).

Everyone is getting a free Live Arcade game:
http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2008/01/03/xbox-live-holiday-performance.aspx

Dear Xbox LIVE Members:



During this past holiday season you helped us break a number of Xbox LIVE records. This included our largest sign-up of new members to Xbox LIVE in our 5 year history and just yesterday you broke the record for the single biggest day of concurrent members ever on the service.



As a result of this massive increase in usage we know that some of you experienced intermittent Xbox LIVE issues over the holiday break. While the service was not completely offline at any given time, we are disappointed in our performance. I would like to take this moment to thank you each and every one of you for your patience and understanding as our team has worked around the clock to return the service to a stable state.



At the same time we would like to offer a token of our appreciation to all of you in celebration of record success for the service. And as a thank you for your loyalty during this holiday period, we will be offering all of our Xbox LIVE members around the world access to a full Xbox LIVE Arcade game that will be available to download free of charge. In the coming weeks we will be sharing the specific details of this offer with you.



Thank you again for helping make Xbox LIVE everything that it is today!



Sincerely,



Marc Whitten

General Manager, Xbox LIVE

Gamertag: Notwen

Glad to see MS do the right thing!

:D OMG it is over.

See... that was all I asked for. Thank you Microsoft... I can say in my eyes you've gone above and beyond what was necessary.

A statement telling you that there are problems and that they are working on them? Gosh, that'd really inform us of things.

Don't be a smart ass.

What people wanted is a statement of exactly what the problem was and an ETA on when things would be back to normal.

From the letter above it was sever load, which is lame as they should have foreseen the usage spike and prepared for it by adding servers ahead of time.

Still no ETA for things to be back to normal, and it was down all evening for me. Couldn't get in COD4 any time I tried, dashboard wouldn't load several times either. I'd like to no what to expect. There was a poster on the X-box forums who said he worked for MS and not to expect it to be back to normal before the end of the month. But that could well have just been a troll making **** up.

Once again, putting words in my mouth. Did I state that I was an attorney? Is it THAT hard to read the black and white print on your screen. I COPY and PASTED, verbatim, the article in question from Terms of Service. How does that make one a attorney?

And you have no sense for sarcasm, either. You misread what you quoted from the TOS, interpreting it in a way that the language simply did not support.

Don't be a smart ass.

What people wanted is a statement of exactly what the problem was and an ETA on when things would be back to normal.

It's not being a smart ass, genius. Have you ever worked in a support role? Sometimes--get this--it is not clear exactly what the true problem is, and it isn't--just imagine this for a moment--possible to give anything resembling an "estimated time of arrival." I'm sure you didn't actually mean ETA, but were just tossing around lingo.

If a company can't provide details on what is wrong or when it will be fixed, it's far better to not try to BS people about such things.

Everyone is getting a free Live Arcade game:
http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2008/01/03/xbox-live-holiday-performance.aspx

I tremble to even post in this thread but....as a 'desktop' side of support type person I have a question...

Not asking for a "head on a stick" here, just curious. Is it simply a matter of the service being "taxed" in a different way, ie, people trying sign up for LIVE, trying to get into games, etc., all at the same time?

Not that I was part of the HALO horde that descended upon LIVE the day it came out, but the service seems to have handled it fine then, no? I don't know whose servers the games runs on, but at the very least, gamers go through LIVE for part of the experience.

True, most were already LIVE members, but I would think we are still talking just shear numbers (VERY large number) of people trying to hit the service all at once. Thus, the servers are taxed.

Not sure it can be answered, just curious.

It's not being a smart ass, genius. Have you ever worked in a support role? Sometimes--get this--it is not clear exactly what the true problem is, and it isn't--just imagine this for a moment--possible to give anything resembling an "estimated time of arrival." I'm sure you didn't actually mean ETA, but were just tossing around lingo.

If a company can't provide details on what is wrong or when it will be fixed, it's far better to not try to BS people about such things.http://icanhascheezburger.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/funny-pictures-call-center-cat.jpg

yeh they are gonna give us a free arcade game... Most likely something crappy noone ever bought.

I tremble to even post in this thread but....as a 'desktop' side of support type person I have a question...

Not asking for a "head on a stick" here, just curious. Is it simply a matter of the service being "taxed" in a different way, ie, people trying sign up for LIVE, trying to get into games, etc., all at the same time?

Not that I was part of the HALO horde that descended upon LIVE the day it came out, but the service seems to have handled it fine then, no? I don't know whose servers the games runs on, but at the very least, gamers go through LIVE for part of the experience.

True, most were already LIVE members, but I would think we are still talking just shear numbers (VERY large number) of people trying to hit the service all at once. Thus, the servers are taxed.

Not sure it can be answered, just curious.


It's quite possible that is the situation. I was never once not able to sign into live. Halo3 worked perfectly for me everytime I played it. The only issue I had was COD4's multiplayer which I believe was more COD4 specific.

yeh they are gonna give us a free arcade game... Most likely something crappy noone ever bought.

They could just give you the dollar they owe you for the week of issues. ;) That is what the cable company would do.

They can't win. If they give away one of the most popular games, the guys who already have it will complain. If they give away a game that isn't as popular, people who don't already have it will complain.

It's quite possible that is the situation. I was never once not able to sign into live. Halo3 worked perfectly for me everytime I played it. The only issue I had was COD4's multiplayer which I believe was more COD4 specific.

Yeah, I never really had an issue, either. But there were 4 days where I didn't play online. So perhaps that is why.

And yeah, COD4 needs its patch released. That game definitely has some networking issues.

LIVE works fine for me dont see whats going on I actually log on once/day to check my msn messenger and voice/text mail and then log off and then turn on my PS3 to play COD4 for free on PSN. Im currently level 34 not to shabby and doing all the barracks stuff at least trying to and kicking butt and having fun.

Yeah, I never really had an issue, either. But there were 4 days where I didn't play online. So perhaps that is why.

And yeah, COD4 needs its patch released. That game definitely has some networking issues.

I had issues on every Live game I tried.....Halo 3 included. At least for 2 days, so it was more widespread than just COD4. For a while anyway.

yeh they are gonna give us a free arcade game... Most likely something crappy noone ever bought.

or they could give us the points and let us buy what we want

1) Answers
2) Compensation (not necessarily monetarily, hell, I'd be happy with a simple apology right now. Major Nelson's apology doesn't count - Last time they've had a big screw up, I got a message in my email from Xbox Live (crackdown anyone?) apologizing for the problem, letting us know when it would be resolved (I can't emphasize enough how important this was).

Classic AVS hand-wringing and over-thinking. This forum is the best at creating paralysis through analysis, and stuff like this is why. You really stressed over all that for a buck's worth of service?

It really sucks to have been off work for 11 days and not able to play live when I wanted due to a problem on their end, they knew there was a problem why hasnt it been fixed?

I dont care about getting reimbursed...I just want it to work when I want to play online......

It really sucks to have been off work for 11 days and not able to play live when I wanted due to a problem on their end, they knew there was a problem why hasnt it been fixed?

I dont care about getting reimbursed...I just want it to work when I want to play online......

if you had a PS3 version it would work fine..:cool:

if you had a PS3 version it would work fine..:cool:

Except for the times when the PS3 version doesn't work fine.

I tremble to even post in this thread but....as a 'desktop' side of support type person I have a question...

Not asking for a "head on a stick" here, just curious. Is it simply a matter of the service being "taxed" in a different way, ie, people trying sign up for LIVE, trying to get into games, etc., all at the same time?

Not that I was part of the HALO horde that descended upon LIVE the day it came out, but the service seems to have handled it fine then, no? I don't know whose servers the games runs on, but at the very least, gamers go through LIVE for part of the experience.

True, most were already LIVE members, but I would think we are still talking just shear numbers (VERY large number) of people trying to hit the service all at once. Thus, the servers are taxed.

Not sure it can be answered, just curious.

Rhyvven, I'm sure the increase in user base as well as concurrent usage of the xbox live service was a contributing factor. Too strong of a correlation to deny (I was unable to connect to live starting Tuesday the 25th and couldn't sustain a login for more than 5 minutes until the evening of Sunday Dec 30th). Microsoft's press release certainly supports that theory...but here's my concern.

While the X-mas holiday XBL surge was the proverbial 'nail in the coffin'...XBL is five years old, and there is always a surge over the holidays. I haven't seen the figures so I don't know quantifiably what 'record breaking' means as far as new subscribers or increase in concurrent usage, but I'm fairly confident that Microsoft would have planned for a worst case scenario from a user concurrency capacity perspective.

I'm concerned that the true cause is the December 'fall update' and the increase in holiday usage (a few weeks later) simply caused an already existing bandwidth issue to cause a catastrophic system failure. The reason I say this is I started to experience the connectivity problem when the update was released, but only once or twice a week and I could usually connect again after several hours.

I don't know what the fall update did as far as increasing client/server calls (360 to XBL content servers) but it certainly seems to be making more calls (you get the 360 'hourglass' as it tries to load the Xbox News, etc) and more of the calls are not user initiated, XBL now 'pushes' more content to out simply by trying to load the initial blade. It useds to be only the marketplace and xbox live blades that did this, now even the games blade with all the new custom menu items struggles to load initially. This is on both my xbox 360s...one wired upstairs and one wireless downstairs....and both started immeadiately after the fall update.

My suspicion is that the fall update created a concurrency and/or bandwidth issue with the already existing user base, and when that threshold was exceeded with the holiday rush the multiplicative effect (X number of users times Y increase in bandwith usage per user since the fall update) created the inability for many user to log in for extended periods of time.

This is just IMO based on what I have expereinced (leveraging a little about what I've learned OTJ as an enterprise architect for global J2EE applications). Not having any visibility to the inner workings of the XBL software or hardware infrastructure, only time will tell if they have truly remedied the situation. Based on some of the posts over the last few days and my own expereince I don't think they have...yet.

Rhyvven, I'm sure the increase in user base as well as concurrent usage of the xbox live service was a contributing factor. Too strong of a correlation to deny (I was unable to connect to live starting Tuesday the 25th and couldn't sustain a login for more than 5 minutes until the evening of Sunday Dec 30th). Microsoft's press release certainly supports that theory...but here's my concern.

While the X-mas holiday XBL surge was the proverbial 'nail in the coffin'...XBL is five years old, and there is always a surge over the holidays. I haven't seen the figures so I don't know quantifiably what 'record breaking' means as far as new subscribers or increase in concurrent usage, but I'm fairly confident that Microsoft would have planned for a worst case scenario from a user concurrency capacity perspective.

I'm concerned that the true cause is the December 'fall update' and the increase in holiday usage (a few weeks later) simply caused an already existing bandwidth issue to cause a catastrophic system failure. The reason I say this is I started to experience the connectivity problem when the update was released, but only once or twice a week and I could usually connect again after several hours.

I don't know what the fall update did as far as increasing client/server calls (360 to XBL content servers) but it certainly seems to be making more calls (you get the 360 'hourglass' as it tries to load the Xbox News, etc) and more of the calls are not user initiated, XBL now 'pushes' more content to out simply by trying to load the initial blade. It useds to be only the marketplace and xbox live blades that did this, now even the games blade with all the new custom menu items struggles to load initially. This is on both my xbox 360s...one wired upstairs and one wireless downstairs....and both started immeadiately after the fall update.

My suspicion is that the fall update created a concurrency and/or bandwidth issue with the already existing user base, and when that threshold was exceeded with the holiday rush the multiplicative effect (X number of users times Y increase in bandwith usage per user since the fall update) created the inability for many user to log in for extended periods of time.

This is just IMO based on what I have expereinced (leveraging a little about what I've learned OTJ as an enterprise architect for global J2EE applications). Not having any visibility to the inner workings of the XBL software or hardware infrastructure, only time will tell if they have truly remedied the situation. Based on some of the posts over the last few days and my own expereince I don't think they have...yet.

+1

A lot of the various areas on the dashboard have been slower for me since the fall update. My only concern would be that MS didn't see this coming. You'd think they'd have known they were close to a bandwidth problem based on their projected sales/Live sign-ups for the holiday season.

LIVE works fine for me dont see whats going on I actually log on once/day to check my msn messenger and voice/text mail and then log off and then turn on my PS3 to play COD4 for free on PSN. Im currently level 34 not to shabby and doing all the barracks stuff at least trying to and kicking butt and having fun.

1. It's not been down continuously. Usually down from late afternoon until Midnight or so EST.

2. It hasn't really been totally down very much. A lot of times you can get to your friends lists, messages etc., but just can't join games (i.e. the lobbies time out, or give you connection error messages etc.).

If a company can't provide details on what is wrong or when it will be fixed, it's far better to not try to BS people about such things.

It's been a problem for going on 2 weeks. I'd think they'd have a good handle on both what the problem is and when they may have it fixed by now. I wasn't expecting anything the first day or two. But even then they could have made an official statement to the effect of acknowledging that they are having problems and working on them beyond having the status indicator (which lagged hours behind when problems occured) and Major Nelson's twitter page.

Yeah, because status indicators are always right. How'd they get a broken one?

It's incredible to me that people know that something isn't working, yet still want someone to tell them that it isn't working.

Yeah, because status indicators are always right. How'd they get a broken one?

It's incredible to me that people know that something isn't working, yet still want someone to tell them that it isn't working.

Well if they can't identify the problem, that signals immediately to me (being an employee with a company providing Technical Support) that this is something that is;

1) Beyond their means of support - aka their techs are inept and cannot find the 'error' in the infrastructure of the servers.

2) An attack from outside source - their techs cannot pinpoint where the attack effected the servers, and thus cannot fully fix the issue they're having.

I'm not even going to pretend that I know Xbox Live's servers or their server infrastructure and thus I cannot give an expert opinion on it. I just know that I have handled many situations with servers and normally a backup or fail safe is in place for this kind of situation.

It seems that Microsoft lacked this and I hope they learn from this for the future. It would be VERY expensive to have a dedicated backup in case of events such as these, but it would be just one more thing to put them over their competition.

Well if they can't identify the problem, that signals immediately to me (being an employee with a company providing Technical Support) that this is something that is;

1) Beyond their means of support - aka their techs are inept and cannot find the 'error' in the infrastructure of the servers.

2) An attack from outside source - their techs cannot pinpoint where the attack effected the servers, and thus cannot fully fix the issue they're having.

I'm not even going to pretend that I know Xbox Live's servers or their server infrastructure and thus I cannot give an expert opinion on it. I just know that I have handled many situations with servers and normally a backup or fail safe is in place for this kind of situation.


Go listen to the beginning of Major Nelson's podcast this week for some insight. It wasn't one problem. It wasn't something that a backup would have fixed.

It isn't like someone tripped over the Live server powercord. Oopsie!

http://www.majornelson.com/archive/2008/01/03/show-261-the-first-show-of-2008.aspx

Yeah, because status indicators are always right. How'd they get a broken one?

It's incredible to me that people know that something isn't working, yet still want someone to tell them that it isn't working.

Again, I don't need them to tell me that it's not working. And I don't really care that much to hear what exactly the problem is.

What I want to hear is an estimate of when we can expect it to get back to normal. It's a waste of time to arrange any online gaming nights with buddies right now, as we've tried 3 times over the past couple of weeks and not been able to do it either time since Live was down.

Would be nice to know and estimated time for repair (i.e. says something like hopefully by the weekend, hopefully by the end of next week, by the end of the month). That way I can know to just not bother arranging any XBL time with my friends until at least after their estimated date.

I'm busy, and it takes work to free up a night to play (and even more to find a night that me and my also busy friends can all play), and it's frustrating to find a time and then have the service be down.

So I'm annoyed that MS hasn't been more forthcoming with giving us ANY info on the problem, or when it may be fixed, other than the often outdated status indicators and Major Nelson's twitter blog (which is also useless as he usually posts that it's working fine when it's down for me).

Would be nice to know and estimated time for repair (i.e. says something like hopefully by the weekend, hopefully by the end of next week, by the end of the month).

I do understand that you think this is both possible and reasonable. However, with complex networked systems it is often difficult to determined exactly what is actually the root cause of the problem. Believe it or not, but the most time consuming part of fixing a complex system is often the trouble-shooting--figuring out what exactly went wrong. Many times you just can't have an estimate of when it will be working again.

I do understand that you think this is both possible and reasonable. However, with complex networked systems it is often difficult to determined exactly what is actually the root cause of the problem. Believe it or not, but the most time consuming part of fixing a complex system is often the trouble-shooting--figuring out what exactly went wrong. Many times you just can't have an estimate of when it will be working again.

I guess that's fair. Not what I like to hear about a service I pay for though. Especially from the biggest corporation in the world that happens to specialize in computer software.

Shame the PS3 hasn't sold better. If it had, with it's free PSN network MS would likely have had to make live free to compete.

Probably still have the same problems, but I'd care less if I wasn't paying for something I could get free on other platforms. But I can't switch as the PS3 just doesn't have the exclusives I want to play.

Post a complaint with the BBB in western Washington with their on-line complaint form. Go to this web site http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/
and under BBB for consumers, select file a complaint. When you go through the process, "Find the Company" put microsoft in the "search by company name" select next and you will see Xbox in the following company database list. Select that as the company. They are also listed as a BBB registered company, if that makes any difference. You will then be redirected again back to the Alaska Oregon Western Washington BBB to finish the form.
If enough people complain through BBB it might bring some sort of change. At least the complaints are tallied because mine was assigned a complaint number.

Post a complaint with the BBB in western Washington with their on-line complaint form. Go to this web site http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/
and under BBB for consumers, select file a complaint. When you go through the process, "Find the Company" put microsoft in the "search by company name" select next and you will see Xbox in the following company database list. Select that as the company. They are also listed as a BBB registered company, if that makes any difference. You will then be redirected again back to the Alaska Oregon Western Washington BBB to finish the form.
If enough people complain through BBB it might bring some sort of change. At least the complaints are tallied because mine was assigned a complaint number.

:rolleyes: Good luck getting your couple of dollars you recieve. I guess MS should single you out on getting your free XBLA game.

Post a complaint with the BBB in western Washington with their on-line complaint form. Go to this web site http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/
and under BBB for consumers, select file a complaint. When you go through the process, "Find the Company" put microsoft in the "search by company name" select next and you will see Xbox in the following company database list. Select that as the company. They are also listed as a BBB registered company, if that makes any difference. You will then be redirected again back to the Alaska Oregon Western Washington BBB to finish the form.
If enough people complain through BBB it might bring some sort of change. At least the complaints are tallied because mine was assigned a complaint number.

Select Xbox as the company lol

BBB = paper tiger BTW

Post a complaint with the BBB in western Washington with their on-line complaint form. Go to this web site http://alaskaoregonwesternwashington.bbb.org/
and under BBB for consumers, select file a complaint. When you go through the process, "Find the Company" put microsoft in the "search by company name" select next and you will see Xbox in the following company database list. Select that as the company. They are also listed as a BBB registered company, if that makes any difference. You will then be redirected again back to the Alaska Oregon Western Washington BBB to finish the form.
If enough people complain through BBB it might bring some sort of change. At least the complaints are tallied because mine was assigned a complaint number.

Have you asked MS for a full refund and were you denied? The BBB isn't going to take you serious until you have at least tried to resolve this with MS.

I currently have a complaint through the BBB concerning a repaired XBox 360 (they sent me a crappier older refurb than the unit I sent in). Microsoft's XBox customer service has been working through the BBB and myself to resolve this complaint. Microsoft's reply to this complaint was via the phone and they actually called me within a couple of days. There has also been a couple of e-mail replies from the XBox customer to my denying any successful resolution from the MS XBox customer service via the BBB.

This complaint has not been resolved. It has only been a week since the initial complaint. Some of the responses from the XBox division have been contradictory concerning the type of repair service that they provide. But, at least myself and the Western Washington BBB have those responses filed under a case number.

Complain in the forum, you need a thick skin. Complain through the BBB, you need perseverance.