Now that Warner has gone Blu Ray only, the demise of HD DVD has begun.
Does this mean we won't be seeing new combo players going forward?

Probably not, if they fix the Samsung 5000 I will buy it.
For the cost I can not see any manufacture creating a new dual format player.
The Sammy is the only choice for me, it is not cheap but anything that will hopefully decode dts ma through the analog outs I will probably purchase but I am still waiting for the firmware to come out before I put out $800

Excellent question!! I doubt there's going to be an ongoing market for HD-DVD, but it does seem unfair that the people who invested in it won't have new players going forward.

Someone made the point in another thread that at least in computers, combo drives will probably be around.

Maybe we'll get some clues next week at C.E.S.

Excellent question!! I doubt there's going to be an ongoing market for HD-DVD, but it does seem unfair that the people who invested in it won't have new players going forward.

Someone made the point in another thread that at least in computers, combo drives will probably be around.

Maybe we'll get some clues next week at C.E.S.

Actually i think they will not, there will most likely be more DF players now sold. I actually said to my fiancé last week, that we were going to wait about 6 months and if nothing spectacular has happened, we'd go format neutral, in this case with a DF-player. We'll see what the next few weeks brings...

This is a step in the right direction, but I strongly disagree that this is the end of the format war. HD-DVD will be around for a while longer, even with only two studios (though who knows what other announcements will come at CES). This news will hurt the standalone HD-DVD player market much worse than the DF player market. Since there is so much HD-DVD media out there already and much more likely to come in 2008 and possibly beyond, there will definitely still be a market for reasonably priced DF players.

The point of combo players was to keep the consumer from being on the losing side.

IMO, I think they will get more popular.

I think they'll get more popular for this year as HD DVD owners transition to neutral without sacrificing their sisable investment in movies, but I'd expect no more than another generation of model announcements (most likely from LG).

It is a good question and ultimately the answer is probably "Yes", since HD-DVD is probably on it's last legs. I would predict that Microsoft and Toshiba will throw in the towel by the end of 2008.

OTOH, I am not all that unhappy that I bought a Sammy 5000. Samsung, being in the Blu-Ray camp primarily, should continue to support the Blu-Ray side of the player.

The folks I really feel sorry for are the poor suckers that bought HD-DVD players and discs. In a couple of years their players will be good for playing the HD-DVD discs they bought and for holding the door open while they carry their new Blu-Ray player into the house.

It also makes me happy that the only purchased discs I have are Blu-Ray...

It also makes me happy that the only purchased discs I have are Blu-Ray...

Why would that matter? I've got no problem continuing to buy HD-DVD's. It's not like they're gonna stop playing on my 5000 at the end of the year, or look/sound any worse than Blu-Ray versions of the same movies (aside from the occasional audio codec difference, which is in HD-DVD's advantage as often as it isn't).

Why would that matter? I've got no problem continuing to buy HD-DVD's.

Players don't last forever. Once HD-DVD is truly dead and gone, only old players will work with one's HD-DVD purchases. At that point, the only way to replace a dead HD-DVD (or combo) player will be eBay. Clearly this may take quite a few years but then I still have and play standard DVDs that are many years old.

Players don't last forever. Once HD-DVD is truly dead and gone, only old players will work with one's HD-DVD purchases. At that point, the only way to replace an HD-DVD player will be eBay. Clearly this may take quite a few years but then I still have and play DVDs that are many years old.

By the time I need to replace my player, I very much doubt Blu-Ray will be around either. :)

For the record, I still have a Laserdisc player as well.

I am in agreement with those that think that combo players will continue to make their way to market.

Keep in mind, there are still two major studios who are HD-DVD supporters and until the fat lady sings, it ain't over. I'm not saying HD-DVD has much of a chance in the long run, but I think it will take longer than many think for this format war to become a footnote in the history of home electronics.

If anything, I predict the introduction of more "Blu-ray" players, that have the capability of playing HD DVD (similar to the way that LG and Samsung has marketed their players as "Blu-ray" first with HD DVD playback).

Spence

By the time I need to replace my player, I very much doubt Blu-Ray will be around either.

You may well be right, time will tell. If the bandwidth can be obtained (hard but not impossible), some sort of downloadable system would be the likely successor.

You may well be right, time will tell. If the bandwidth can be obtained (hard but not impossible), some sort of downloadable system would be the likely successor.

I would bet on another recordable media format before we get to downloadable reference-quality HD content. A cheap 500 GB+ DVD format for example. That might only be a year or two away. I think the bandwidth to put the same content online is at least 8-10 years away.

Oh, at long last. I can finally think about taking the padlock off the wallet and buying a Blu-Ray player. It wasn't easy to sit out the format war up to now, but I'm really glad I did.

Market prediction: Toshiba will fire-sale their HD-DVD players as early as possible to cut their losses. Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price -- although that phenomenon could be offset somewhat with the inevitable advent of off-brand Chinese BD players. Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Don't forget the computer side of this, either: Apple announced their exclusive hardware support for BD today as well. Now it's time for Toshiba to to get with the program or risk becoming an irrelevant laughingstock in the tech world. Sony, once they got over their disappointment of losing the videotape war, managed to produce some of the most popular and best-performing VHS players. No reason Toshiba can't do the same with BD.

The point of combo players was to keep the consumer from being on the losing side.

IMO, I think they will get more popular.

If not, then they will become a nice collector's item.:D

Wouldn't it behoove Samsung to fix the audio in their 5000 now more than ever? There are going to be people who want to have a player that will continue to play their sizable HD-DVD collection and their new Blu-Ray discs (at least if their HD-DVD player dies)..

Of course, they could also be in my position where the wife wants one player only.

Oh, at long last. I can finally think about taking the padlock off the wallet and buying a Blu-Ray player. It wasn't easy to sit out the format war up to now, but I'm really glad I did.

Market prediction: Toshiba will fire-sale their HD-DVD players as early as possible to cut their losses. Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price -- although that phenomenon could be offset somewhat with the inevitable advent of off-brand Chinese BD players. Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Don't forget the computer side of this, either: Apple announced their exclusive hardware support for BD today as well. Now it's time for Toshiba to to get with the program or risk becoming an irrelevant laughingstock in the tech world. Sony, once they got over their disappointment of losing the videotape war, managed to produce some of the most popular and best-performing VHS players. No reason Toshiba can't do the same with BD.
Toshiba could take the lead in the DF format player market ....

I'm guessing most wives don't notice or care about the difference.

LOL, wonder what Michael Bay's saying now :D.

I'm guessing most wives don't notice or care about the difference.

yep. My wife thinks upconverted SDDVD looks the same and HDM.

However, my wife does notice more than one player. She wanted one player to play our movies.

I'm hoping Toshiba starts production on BD players soon and puts HD DVD support in most / all of them. (i.e. Much as how Sony builds SACD support into many of their players.)

LOL, wonder what Michael Bay's saying now :D.

But Transformers is still a Paramount property :o. I guess he'll have to a wait a little longer to get his way with that title.

Toshiba could take the lead in the DF format player market ....
That's probably the smartest thing they could do at this point; plus it'd be nice if they didn't leave the consumers who supported them out in the cold by continuing to provide a means of them to play HD DVDs.

I wouldn't be surprised if HD DVD lived on as the optical format for the heir to the xBox 360; for Microsoft, it'd sure beat 1.) switching to your competitors format in favor of their own and 2.) putting money in their number one competitor's pocket by supporting their format.

The only thing that would kill dual-format is for the BDA to take some of those $100 million bills they've been tossing around and replace everyone's HD DVD discs with blu-ray discs.

After all, they WANT people to move to HD and there is enough consumer fear without such a public screwing of early adopters.

Even if they had to replace 5 million discs at $20 per, that would only be $100 million across the industry. With the bucks they've thrown around today (keeping Fox and getting Warner), it's a drop in the bucket.

I think the Warner announcement will make these players even more valuable. That way they can charge a premium for it cause it does both formats.

I hope Toshiba will make a dual format player. I know my refurbed A1 will not last forever and I only own 10 hd dvds but I really like the internet features and blu ray will probably not have that for several years now that this war is coming to an end. I won't buy blu unless it is a dual format with 1.1 specs at least. The Samsung 5000 looks to be that player but the audio codecs through the analog outs is not fixed yet so I can't spend that kinda of money on that and my toshiba does not have any problems with that. Microsoft is in this for money they will eventually have a blu ray add on for there 360 you can count on that.

As long as up-convert DVD players are being sold, neither HD DVD nor Blu-ray can compete. High definition media will never take off.

Joe Consumer would rather pay $99 or less for an up-convert DVD player that advertises 1080p output with standard definition DVDs that are available EVERYWHERE and are much cheaper that HD discs.

The HD-dvd and blu-ray format are almost exactly the same.

Eventually a blu-ray player with the ability to play a HD-dvd will be like a dvd-player that can play CDs.

Your HD-DVDs will always be valuable as Blu-ray.

This move by Warner actually signifies the possible failure of the blu-ray format. It has not taken off, and if it does not gain some much larger sales, downloading HD media will become more popular (which it is doing well now). Warner knows if they didnt do this, then nobody wins.

Personally this is going to be bad for the consumer, unless Denon starts making dual players. Toshiba was decent, but HD-Discs will suffer forever if I have to rely on samsung for players!!!!

*philips would be smart to make a dual player----it has demonstrated solid players.

Sony was so-so, but they can charge whatever they feel like for their stuff.

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners. Since hi def players as a whole are such a niche market, I don't see that as a very big market -- certainly not big enough to lure top tier companies. I can see low budget players similar to the HD-A1/A2/A3 or Venturer that offer limited features and cheaper specs. Of course, that is essentially what we have now in the LH-200 and UP500 unless LG and Samsung are able to give us more features via firmware updates that are less likely to come now. Either that, or dual players might become seriously more expensive.

Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Go down, yes. But in the short run actual price will depend on a given dual player's features versus a Blu-Ray only. If the dual has better Blu-Ray features than a Blu-Ray player, it will sell for more, if not, for less. I should think that is obvious.

Having said that, there will eventually be no reason to have HD-DVD playback so the obvious course is to eventually drop production of any machine that plays them once HD-DVD discs go away.

In that sense, combo players will be cheap on clearance but this will likely take a year or more (how much more is anyone's guess). In the meantime, I will be able to watch HD-DVD only releases on my Sammy 5000...

I actually think the WB announcement helps the 5000. If the audio and video issues are worked out it's a perfect way for current A2/A3/A30/A35/ETC owners to go blu. They will be able to play their HD-DVD collection and BR on a single player. In addition the 5000 has everything needed to be profile 2.0 except the 1GB local storage. With the ethernet connection there are ways around this. I also feel the internet connectivity ability is going to be more important for future advanced content.

I was prepared to return my 5000 and pick up an A35/BD30. Now for sure I won't get an A35 and the BD30 lacks an ethernet port, so it's very likely I stand pat with my 5000.

I feel it should help also.... Companies could rub it in even more and advertise it as 'backwards compatible with DVD and HD-DVD' :D

I currently own a A2 and a PS3 and should the war completely end I would be interested in having one stand alone unit. Further to this, if I wanted to add more players throughout the house, a company that offered a combo player would receive my business over those who don't.

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners. Since hi def players as a whole are such a niche market, I don't see that as a very big market -- certainly not big enough to lure top tier companies. I can see low budget players similar to the HD-A1/A2/A3 or Venturer that offer limited features and cheaper specs. Of course, that is essentially what we have now in the LH-200 and UP500 unless LG and Samsung are able to give us more features via firmware updates that are less likely to come now. Either that, or dual players might become seriously more expensive.

Exactly!! The glimmer of hope I see here would be an Oppo type offering equivalent to their universal DVD-A/SACD capable units that had excellent price/performance even though the market was slim........

Oh, at long last. I can finally think about taking the padlock off the wallet and buying a Blu-Ray player. It wasn't easy to sit out the format war up to now, but I'm really glad I did.

Market prediction: Toshiba will fire-sale their HD-DVD players as early as possible to cut their losses. Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price -- although that phenomenon could be offset somewhat with the inevitable advent of off-brand Chinese BD players. Combo players are going to plummet, too, probably landing somewhere slightly above the cheapest BD-only players.

Don't forget the computer side of this, either: Apple announced their exclusive hardware support for BD today as well. Now it's time for Toshiba to to get with the program or risk becoming an irrelevant laughingstock in the tech world. Sony, once they got over their disappointment of losing the videotape war, managed to produce some of the most popular and best-performing VHS players. No reason Toshiba can't do the same with BD.

BR going up in price??? The major "war" is still with SD DVD, so prices going up no chance in heck.

How tough would it be to make the HD DVD drive in my Toshiba laptop computer play blu-ray? Just a software program, or would it just not work because of the hardware.

How tough would it be to make the HD DVD drive in my Toshiba laptop computer play blu-ray? Just a software program, or would it just not work because of the hardware.

HD-DVD and BluRay use different wavelength lasers, so it would be near impossible.

HD-DVD and BluRay use different wavelength lasers, so it would be near impossible.

Ok, thanks.

By the way, how do those dual players do it? 2 different lasers?

It has not taken off, and if it does not gain some much larger sales, downloading HD media will become more popular (which it is doing well now).

Downloads, while holding the "potential" for future success, are still a negligible blip on the radar compared to "disc" sales. I think that the "hard" media market will continue to dominate for quite some time.

Larry

HD-DVD and BluRay use different wavelength lasers, so it would be near impossible.

Both HD DVD and Blu-ray use the same blue-violet laser with a wavelength of 405nm.

It's the Numeric Aperture of their optics that are different and allows BD to carry more data.

HDDVD is going to take a hit from this, but depending what comes from CES 2008, HDDVD could have solid support until at least 2009.

Which two major studies still HD-DVD exclusive, Blu-ray is still going to continue to have problems (HD-Discs in general arent doing that well overral (dvds still are way too powerful)).

2010 could be the year that Blu-ray has a solid victory, and HD-DVD is no longer supported by major studios. But by this point microsoft and Toshiba will realize this, and licence to make blu-ray players by Sony...who will be more than happy to oblige them (even at low values). Toshiba then makes a dirt cheap dual player to compete (the way it should be, now everything is a blu-ray player, but toshiba gives you same value with HD-dvd playback also)

This is not betamax. These are DVD-Roms people. The better blu-ray does in the next two years...the more likely cheaper dual players appear. Since both sides have slow, but solid sales so far...there is too much opportunity to have your player outsell the rest of them by having HD-DVD support.

Do you know what these companies make from dvd players.....not much. Any advantage would help. I can guarantee you that unless universal and paramount go BLU RAY EXCLUSIVE IN THE SPRING OF 08. CHEAP DUAL PLAYERS WILL BECOME MUCH MORE AVAILABE (AND REASONABLY PRICED) STARTING SOMETIME IN 08/09.

Well, since I backed HD DVD for the past few months (purely because of price--player manufacturers/media companies, you got that?), it was inevitable that BluRay would pull farther ahead. That said, I'm not horribly upset at the whole thing. Sure, I have about 20 discs, half of which are Universal HD DVD-exclusives. I know there will always be a way to play them via computer drives, but I'm hopeful that there will be a decent market for dual-format standalone players, too. Since much of the hardware is the same between the different players, I think the best bet would be for the HD DVD consortium to drop their licensing fees by the end of the year. This would give the hardware manufacturers little reason not to include HD DVD playback abilities in their players since the additional costs to do so would be negligible.

Its not he players that are the problem..They are cheap enough that regular consumers will buy them..The players now range from $199 - $249.. Only a real tightwad or someone who doesn't watch a lot of movies isn't going to buy one.Its the expensive media that's the problem..I can't justify spending $30 for a movie..You can't get them all off Amazon for $20.. You also can't rent every one on HD or Blu Ray,or its also an ungodly wait..until you can go into a blockbuster and rent hd or blu ray like regular dvd's most people won't need an hd player.Most won't appreciate what we do..Especially women..They aren't into tech stuff,some are ,most aren't..

Since after May 2008 Warner is going BLU-RAY exclusive all the major studios have picked a side and there is no more major neutral studios. The demand for combo players is now bigger since no major studios are neutral. When and if Universal Studios and Paramount Pictures starts releasing movies in BLU-RAY that will be when there is no need to make dual format players anymore. For when and if such an event occurs BLU-RAY would have 100% studio support. The only reason there is a market for dual format players now is the fact that nether the BLU-RAY or HD-DVD camps have 100% studio support yet.

Meanwhile, dedicated Blu-Ray players (and the PS3) may well go up in price

I don't see that happening. Sony needs to stay relevant in the game console wars, and raising the price would seriously jeopardize that. I don't see the standalone players going up either, although this may slow the reduction in prices.

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners.

The only way that statement is true is if Universal and Paramount/DW agree to support Blu-Ray.

Not sure why everyone is talking like this has already happened.


*EDIT* - Regardless of what happens, my one wish would be for the dual-format player concept to last long enough so we can get a combo player that is 2.0 compliant so I'm not sitting there knowing my Blu-Ray player is gimped.

I don't see that happening. Sony needs to stay relevant in the game console wars, and raising the price would seriously jeopardize that.
Indeed. While it's all roses for fans of Blu-Ray as a movie format right now, the PS3 is still bringing up the distant rear in the console race. They've got what they wanted as far as using the PS3 to infiltrate enough homes to give their movie format a strong advantage, but that's only step one.

I can't justify spending $30 for a movie.

So I am guessing you don't watch movies at movie theaters then? Ever total up what it costs? $10 for a ticket. $9.50 for a soda and popcorn. Oh, you brought a date? Well there went that $30... :D

I am waiting until there's a clear winner, and that looks to be in the works.

The only way that statement is true is if Universal and Paramount/DW agree to support Blu-Ray.

Not sure why everyone is talking like this has already happened.


I think it only needs Universal to go neutral, Paramount can be easy bought.

The folks I really feel sorry for are the poor suckers that bought HD-DVD players and discs. In a couple of years their players will be good for playing the HD-DVD discs they bought and for holding the door open while they carry their new Blu-Ray player into the house.
And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

No, I don't feel bad or upset that I bought 2 HD DVD players and (so far) 77 discs.

I feel bad for the suckers that bought a 1.0 spec BD player and need to buy another one for 1.1 features and then a third for 2.0 features. Meanwhile, my HD DVD players support the spec fully because it was final before launch.

BD = Beta-testing Dummies

:)

It was interesting that just last month in the New York Times, they featured an article which quoted one of the Sony Executives that the Blur ray and HD/dvd format wars were going to be around a long time. Now they have an article this month saying that Hd/dvd is about ready to go under because of the Warner's Brothers' commitment to Blue Ray.

I hope there right because one format will be better for everybody. The problem for the videophile is not one format or the other but the fact that because of this War most consumers are playing a wait and see game and very few movies are being released in either Format.

I still own a laser Disk player.

And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

No, I don't feel bad or upset that I bought 2 HD DVD players and (so far) 77 discs.

I feel bad for the suckers that bought a 1.0 spec BD player and need to buy another one for 1.1 features and then a third for 2.0 features. Meanwhile, my HD DVD players support the spec fully because it was final before launch.

BD = Beta-testing Dummies

:)

The cost of 2 HD-DVD Players and 77 HD-DVD coasters far outweighs the cost of 2 BD Players. I think you are the sucker not a BD Player owner!

There might still be a market for combo players, however I see it as a shrinking market.

The question really is this:

Will you continue to buy Uni/Para HD DVDs in light of the Warner news?

I suspect the answer is no. I'll be thinking twice about buying anymore HD DVDs, regardless of which studio is releasing them.

Still, I'm not overly upset about picking up my BH100. I'll still be able to play my current HD DVDs, which means my money was not totally wasted. But even us "neutral" folks have to think twice about buying any new HD DVDs.

I'm going to stick with my dual HD player, and continue to buy HD DVD. In fact, I'll stock up if the price is right. There are many HD DVD exclusives that I'd love to have.

Now that Warner has gone Blu Ray only, the demise of HD DVD has begun.
Does this mean we won't be seeing new combo players going forward?

Yes - that's exactly what it means because there will be only one format. Who would go to the trouble to develop and market a machine that is more expensive and has essentially no market. DF only made sense in a stalemate scenario.

I just can't see many people buying dual format players from this point on.

1) If you are starting from scratch you will now get a BD player and completely ignore HD DVD.

2) If you have a BD player but not HD DVD you are done

3) If you have an HD DVD player but not not Blu-ray, you can keep you HD DVD player for HD DVD and DVD playback. You will eventually need to get a Blu-ray player if you want HDM.

4) If you have both already, you are done -- unless you need to upgrade for audio -- then the next logical upgrade would be a newer, better Blu-ray player.

The one special group that dual players would make sense for are those that already have sizable investments in HD DVD media. For those people it would be much cheaper to pay more for a dual player than to replace a bunch of HD DVD discs with Blu-ray.

I have around 25 HD DVD titles and was planning on getting the 5000, but with the Warner announcement that player would need to be a no compromise player with internal DTS HDMA decoding. I suppose I might be willing to pay a $200 more than the equivalent Blu-ray player just for the convenience of a single player that plays my legacy HD DVD titles. Otherwise, I would just buy the must have titles over again in Blu-ray.

I doubt it I am going to get me one as soon as the prices go down.

The cost of 2 HD-DVD Players and 77 HD-DVD coasters far outweighs the cost of 2 BD Players. I think you are the sucker not a BD Player owner!

Really so those 77 HD-DVDs, many probably exclusive, are going to self destruct now that WB went blu?

And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

Total utter nonsense. The older players might not support the newer interactive features but will still play the movies.

Go down, yes. But in the short run actual price will depend on a given dual player's features versus a Blu-Ray only. If the dual has better Blu-Ray features than a Blu-Ray player, it will sell for more, if not, for less. I should think that is obvious.

Having said that, there will eventually be no reason to have HD-DVD playback so the obvious course is to eventually drop production of any machine that plays them once HD-DVD discs go away.But by the time there's no reason to have HD DVD compatibility, the cost of doing so will be nil. In fact the cost of taking HD DVD compatibility OUT will be prohibitive as every chipset and software module expects the two modes. And probably by then, both BD and HD will be a subset of something else.

Really so those 77 HD-DVDs, many probably exclusive, are going to self destruct now that WB went blu?

Give it a year and a half and you will see everyone doing blu!....You even have Michael Bay the director of the exclusive Transformers saying that HD-DVD will die a slow death and that Transformers will come out in Blu-Ray....

People have to just face the inevitable....if you are suggesting that HD-DVD can still win this then please state your case....otherwise those HD-DVDs will end up as coasters in a couple of years time.

otherwise those HD-DVDs will end up as coasters in a couple of years time.


Why does everyone refer to these as coasters??? I am a proud HD DVD owner and I will still be watching my beloved discs in 1-2 years time.

Not like I'm going to say, "Oh no honey! We can't put that lowly HD DVD in our player. They don't make those anymore and it will blow up our theater if we press play."

Give it a year and a half and you will see everyone doing blu!....You even have Michael Bay the director of the exclusive Transformers saying that HD-DVD will die a slow death and that Transformers will come out in Blu-Ray....

Does this kid actually know that not only does Michael Bay support the movie Pearl harbor, but was actually the director!

Blu ray is unfinalized and not region free. Big strikes for me. Blu is nothing more than a really fat bitch. Kinda like the wife from Everybody loves Raymond, but you add a solid 250lb to her.

I will support dual formats, because each have issues, but HD-DVD is at least more versatile.

If everything is blu-ray I probably wont support it. Why support something because it is the only option. People HAVE A NEED TO BUY ANTHING PUT IN THEIR FACES. I want quality, so I will wait and maybe one-day blu-ray finalizes blu-ray version 55555.0

Its not about advancement, but about money. Look at HDMI and look at the unnecessary issues with this.

Why does this latest step by blu-ray feel like the british in the war of 1812 (they burned down the white house, then eventually left because there was nothing left to do...---leaving the US to declare victory!)

If everything is blu-ray I probably wont support it. Why support something because it is the only option.

Because its the only option, duh!

Give it a year and a half and you will see everyone doing blu!....You even have Michael Bay the director of the exclusive Transformers saying that HD-DVD will die a slow death and that Transformers will come out in Blu-Ray....

People have to just face the inevitable....if you are suggesting that HD-DVD can still win this then please state your case....otherwise those HD-DVDs will end up as coasters in a couple of years time.

I most be missing something here. I guess since you're calling the media coasters you think the players will self destruct? I have CDs well over 10yrs old and they still play fine. I haven't yet felt the need to protect my coffee table with one of them. There are many older then me on this board playing LPs 50 years old. I have an A2 and Sammy 5000 both of which I expect to use for many years to come.

I really don't care what format wins since I can play both. I really don't understand the gloating coming from the blue side here. Competition is good for the consumer. If eventually all studios move to blu only, there is no motivation for discounted players or media.

I really don't care what format wins since I can play both

True. I am happy I can just put the damn thing in and enjoy some hd...

Why does everyone refer to these as coasters??? I am a proud HD DVD owner and I will still be watching my beloved discs in 1-2 years time.

1-2 years :eek:
I'm still enjoying my laserdiscs 20 YEARS LATER :eek: ! And I hope to still be enjoying my HD-DVD's in 2028 :) !

I believe that HD-DVD isn't going anywhere. It's likely that DF players will eventually become the norm as the technical kinks get worked out, and the drives become easily and cheaply produced. The rest is just software. Look at how many times we have thought we saw the end to Vinyl LP Records, yet not only are turntables and records still available, but are doing quite well as a Hi-End niche market.

I'm guessing most wives don't notice or care about the difference.


Actually, most people don't, either...

I believe that HD-DVD isn't going anywhere. It's likely that DF players will eventually become the norm as the technical kinks get worked out, and the drives become easily and cheaply produced. The rest is just software. Look at how many times we have thought we saw the end to Vinyl LP Records, yet not only are turntables and records still available, but are doing quite well as a Hi-End niche market.

I hope too, but you can't compare an analog audio format which lasted 70 years selling billions of LPs (a majority as collector's initial releases) to a digital video format which lasted 2-3 years selling a few million with a minority of new stuff :(

I hope not. I'm currently HD DVD only through the add-on, and I'd like to eventually buy a dual format player so I don't have to rely on the add-on forever. Only problem is I want one that will give me final Blu-Ray specs, while being around $200 or so.

If you have a bunch of HD DVD disks and don't want a bunch of players in your equipment rack, you better buy a dual format player now. After the ones in the current distribution pipeline are gone there will be no more.

You are a 'legacy' user.

After Toshiba loses the remaining movie companies, you will see those racks of HD DVD disks slowly empty until there are none left. It makes no business sense to build players for disks that, in a year or so, aren't anymore. That's about when the mainstream purchases of HD players/disks will commence.

--- CHAS

Exactly!! The glimmer of hope I see here would be an Oppo type offering equivalent to their universal DVD-A/SACD capable units that had excellent price/performance even though the market was slim........
Actually, I wrote Oppo after the 5K came out and asked them if they were considering it. The response I got said "Oppo has no plans" for this and indicated that neither format was "mature or even potentially viable." Pretty direct response I thought.

One thing I didn't consider is that Toshiba might market a dual player. I think that is our best hope for a full featured combo machine. Who knows how long that would take, though.

The only way that statement is true is if Universal and Paramount/DW agree to support Blu-Ray.
Universal has no commitment and Paramount might have an out clause. I'd say with HD DVD canceling their session at CES, the writing is on the wall. That doesn't mean Blu-ray has won; only that HD DVD has lost. The ONLY thing that could extend HD DVD would be for Disney to switch. No chance, I'd say.

Give it a year and a half and you will see everyone doing blu!....You even have Michael Bay the director of the exclusive Transformers saying that HD-DVD will die a slow death and that Transformers will come out in Blu-Ray....
Why does everyone cite this no-talent assbag? His movies are complete crap. Transformers looked cool (so did The Island), but just like ALL his movies featured bad movie-of-the-week quality of acting and storytelling. Bay is the American Uwe Boll. He needs to go back to directing Playboy video centerfolds.

Why does everyone site this no-talent assbag? His movies are complete crap. Transformers looked cool (so did The Island), but just like ALL his movies featured bad movie-of-the-week quality of acting and storytelling. Bay is the American Uwe Boll. He needs to go back to directing Playboy video centerfolds.

With the money he has accumulated, why does he need talent?

I think maybe Warner discovered that making the dual-format discs were more expensive. And maybe Sony decided to make it less expensive to Warner as a way to push Blu-Ray. And Sony maybe making an empty low cost promise to push consumers and distributors to Blu-Ray...probably not lowering prices in the end. Any of this is not "with" or "for" consumers, it's a matter of money. The experience with Sony is that they don't really make anything cheaper...only if sales don't go as expected and they might even let the thing dye out. This HD thing is something they WANT, and so are pushing.

Without declaring a winner the main advantages are...Blu-Ray more space and plays on PS / HD-DVD can play on regular DVD players and less expensive for manufacturers (now plays on XBOX). If you analyze these features I would say Blu-Ray for computers and HD-DVD for movies.

We have a clear view of Sony's strategy which is bad for consumers because it's gonna be more expensive in the end. I think Toshiba is not doing much, a better strategy might come from the main feature. Given that HD-DVD plays on regular players, their movie houses should stop making regular DVDs and exchange them from the market. By promoting the feature, consumer fear goes away and begin to build an HD-DVD library; simple.

To me, Sony seems to be winning the war, but because they're pushing. In the money-cost vs. consumer issue, I thought HD-DVD might come up because most people just see the movie and it's less expensive than Blu-Ray. Most people don't dwell on the tech and quantity of features; this should be diferentiated on regular and special editions but HD discs aim at having everything there to justify price. Another bad for consumers.

I hope on CES more dual format machines come out so price lowers, and I also hope Warner and others reconsider strategy...having both formats in the same package is the solution until dual-format machines proliferate. No one format should push on money issues alone and win, in fact having both for now should make for development and economy thru competition.

See, consumers shouldn't really voice a decision. Manufacturers should've agreed on something from the beginning, so why make it our problem when prices are too high and the formats are still polishing bugs and refining quality? Don't say one or the other regardless of price, we consumers shouldn't care as much about the media-format as for how much it's gonna cost us.

WHAT WE NEED IS A CHEAP-RELIABLE UNIVERSAL PLAYER AND ALL MOVIES IN ALL EXISTING FORMATS AND EDITIONS. If good universal players come, then format doesn't matter, just cost.

of course there will be universal players in the future. even if paramount and universal switch sides this week. why? because there are about 1,000,000 potential customers out there who own hd dvd's now and will have hd dvd playback on their list of requirements for their next player.

if denon or pioneer can spend $25 in parts and licenses to make their next bd/dvd player a bd/hd dvd/dvd player, you think they won't add it to the spec sheet as a matter of course? (remember, bd gives you the blue laser, dvd gives you the optics, and sigma will probably sell you the SOC cheap :) ).

they won't call it a dual format player...they'll just call it the new universal player, and every manufacturer at the mid level and higher will join them so they don't lose the "battle of the spec sheets."

everyone will require bd/dvd/cd playback. but also, some people require sacd, some require dvd-audio, some require hdcd, some require mp3 playback from dvd+rw, and now some will require hd-dvd playback. adding support is easy, and the marketing dept will demand it.

of course there will be universal players in the future. even if paramount and universal switch sides this week. why? because there are about 1,000,000 potential customers out there who own hd dvd's now and will have hd dvd playback on their list of requirements for their next player.


I hope you're right in this. I'm a Samsung UP5000 user, and when it breaks down, I still want to play my HD DVDs on the next player. Just in case, if HD DVD goes down this year, I would probably get an extra HD DVD player if there were a clearance sale somewhere. It's too bad that the universal players didn't come out earlier in the high def world. I think that competition is good for the consumer and drives down prices. It would have been preferrable to me if the companies that suffered here were the format-exclusive machine producers.

It's too bad that the universal players didn't come out earlier in the high def world. I think that competition is good for the consumer and drives down prices. It would have been preferrable to me if the companies that suffered here were the format-exclusive machine producers.

true, but it's hard enough getting the new tech working all by itself. iirc, one or two of the first bd players didn't even play cd's. also, the first gen hd dvd players were basically general purpose computers handling everything in software instead of soc (system on a chip). but things like soc are now available, and it's that kind of technology that makes universal players viable (and cheap).

plus i think you have to factor in the two sides trying to defeat the other side in the beginning, so i don't think there was any incentive for bd player manufacturers to make hd dvd look like it had a future. but with all the hd dvd owners now, i think there's plenty of incentive to cater to them, given the ease. (of course, if hd dvd won, it would be much harder to accommodate bd in a universal hd dvd player).

given that i'm an hd dvd supporter, i think we're looking at the 2nd best of all possible worlds, post-format war. ;)

And then in 6 months, when the Blu-ray spec changes again, that BD player they just bought will be used to hold the door open, and so on and so forth in an infinite loop.

No, I don't feel bad or upset that I bought 2 HD DVD players and (so far) 77 discs.

I feel bad for the suckers that bought a 1.0 spec BD player and need to buy another one for 1.1 features and then a third for 2.0 features. Meanwhile, my HD DVD players support the spec fully because it was final before launch.

BD = Beta-testing Dummies

:)dvd changed features a million times. why do all the losers who bought hddvd players make such dumb remarks. also there isnt a analyst around who doesnt have the ps3 in the lead for sales by the end of 2010. a console is not a 1 year thing. the ps2 is 10 and going strong./ most of these guys who say so must have a 33% failure rate 360 and a dead in the water hddvd player. 0 for 2 not bad

There were also analysts who said the ps3 was going to have an American install base of 6 million by 2008.

Its getting its butt kicked by the RROD, and the wii.

Metal Gear is rumored to be available on xbox within 9 months of PS3 release.

IF FINAL FANATSY goes both xbox and ps3, then ps3 will lose. This is the key for the ps3 to have a chance.

If you look at sales vs players owned, HD-DVD still has a strong base. Even with the Warner move, HD-DVD will continue to sell fairly well with paramount and Universal here. It wont sell like blu-ray, but each will have a small amount of people still buying compared to DVD.

DVD=90% of sales ---blu ray= 7% HD-DVD=3% of total sales between the 3.

Dont care if HD-DVD going to stay below selling than 50% less then blu, cause I still get quality, and blu still has a fairly insignificant share.

Hmmm...hellgrammite has another nice point there to think about and direct our pleads to what's really important. Not only analysts, most regular fans almost sweared that because PS3 was coming with a lower price this year the Blu-Ray takeover was final. And then what happened...Wii took over the console gamefield.

We should learn a bit about these happenings and keep focused. Does the Wii quake means people don't want Blu-Ray? No, people just want what's good for a given purpose at less money. Whether we like it or not the big piece of the game-pie is not teens to adults...it's kids to teens. We parents will look for the less expensive machine that brings nice quality games to our kids, so Wii is less expensive, simple, and the interactivity is so high...it's good that our kids (sometimes us) can excercise too.

Another theory I've heard is if Disney goes Blu or HD-DVD that alone is gonna decide the war. I think that's wrong too. Disney is another kids dominated market, for which parents will look for the least expensive choice. Unless Disney stops selling DVDs and VHS altogether, it won't force a thing. I don't see Disney eliminating DVDs, specially when millions of low tech mothers have only a DVD player and maybe a PS2 or a brand new Wii.

Again, we have to plead for the flawless and upgradedable universal player and everything else to be low cost.

I don't care if HD-DVD is on the decline... I still slightly prefer it, have several discs (more than BDs), and therefore love my combo player. HD-DVD isn't dead yet, and I really don't see it dying as quickly as others are predicting. Even if it does die, it may take years before all the movies that were released on HD-DVD are re-released to Blu-ray.

By the way, I don't consider myself an HD-DVD fanboy. I own a combo player and buy movies in both formats. If nothing else, Casino Royale alone would have made me purple, but there's also PotC and some others. And likewise, still some great ones only on HD-DVD, like Serenity. To enjoy all the movies in HD, you still gotta have both formats.

Warner is definitely a big player, and it was a big announcement, but the format war rages on regardless.

dvd changed features a million times. why do all the losers who bought hddvd players make such dumb remarks. also there isnt a analyst around who doesnt have the ps3 in the lead for sales by the end of 2010. a console is not a 1 year thing. the ps2 is 10 and going strong./ most of these guys who say so must have a 33% failure rate 360 and a dead in the water hddvd player. 0 for 2 not bad

DVD changed features a million times? Name one. The quality of transfers improved, and some discs started adding DTS audio tracks, but DVD has been a very consistent format throughout. (And as for DTS in DVD, most mainstream DVD players won't decode it internally, they just bitstream it out... so that's really not any change in how DVD players work.)

Also... PS3 in the lead for consoles? I've never heard that, and don't ever expect to.

Total utter nonsense. The older players might not support the newer interactive features but will still play the movies.

You mean to tell me when newer discs come out that have interactive features, the older players can't access them, that the customer is not getting screwed?

Don:confused:

If you have a bunch of HD DVD disks and don't want a bunch of players in your equipment rack, you better buy a dual format player now. After the ones in the current distribution pipeline are gone there will be no more.

You are a 'legacy' user.

After Toshiba loses the remaining movie companies, you will see those racks of HD DVD disks slowly empty until there are none left. It makes no business sense to build players for disks that, in a year or so, aren't anymore. That's about when the mainstream purchases of HD players/disks will commence.

--- CHAS

Then why did Sony make Beta players years and years after no one sold movies on Beta? If they could have made them beta/VHS they would have.

Could someone tell me who won the great DVD+RW vs DVD-RW war? And why isn't that the model?

Could someone tell me who won the great DVD+RW vs DVD-RW war? And why isn't that the model?

Great point kcmurphy88! We all know what a disaster that battle was. There are two standards have managed to coexist.

Because its the only option, duh!

Wrongo pal!!! I have the FREEDOM to: 1) Buy more and play the hell outta my HD-DVD's, 2) buy SD DVD's if a flick I want is Blu only and watch them upscaled(this will not help Blu's cause)...3) check out digital downloads on Cinema Now(I have Fios connection, it does not take a painfully long time...4)Check out Direct TV HD and Tivo movies I want, as well as many other options...Never say that one thing is the only option...

I am the consumer, J6P, I say where my money is spent and it sure as hell won't be spent on an unfinished spec, buggy BD-J infested, mess of a format..

Don:mad:

Great point kcmurphy88! We all know what a disaster that battle was. There are two standards have managed to coexist.

One thing to remember with that war is that there was no content being sold.

Not because I think Blu-ray is particularly better. We just don't need an ongoing format war.

When there is a clear winner, the general public will become interested, and the shift to HD dvds will hopefully speed up. I would like to see them replace regular DVDs entirely.

With an HD set, who wants to watch regular dvds? If I understand correctly, HD DVD is down to two studios? This is the event I have been hoping for. I will get a Blu-Ray player to go with my XBR5 that should be here in two weeks!

Could someone tell me who won the great DVD+RW vs DVD-RW war? And why isn't that the model?
Excellent question. I was personally hoping that HDM would go the way of DVD+RW and DVD-R -- with dual format players. Unfortunately, the mass media seems to be fixated on the Beta/VHS model, and will discourage HDM adoption until there is a single format. I believe Warner and others have hard data that supports the idea that there must be a single format.

Not because I think Blu-ray is particularly better. We just don't need an ongoing format war.

When there is a clear winner, the general public will become interested, and the shift to HD dvds will hopefully speed up. I would like to see them replace regular DVDs entirely.

With an HD set, who wants to watch regular dvds? If I understand correctly, HD DVD is down to two studios? This is the event I have been hoping for. I will get a Blu-Ray player to go with my XBR5 that should be here in two weeks!

why? Let's put it in a corporate sphere, shall we? Companies use cost/benefit analysis as part of their business practices.....there is no benefit to the cost of Blu players at this time in my view as opposed to my present HD player, SD disks, and HD disks....Because I am a powerful consumer(the studios want my money, ya know), they will have to work hard to earn my money...If they don't, guess what, there are other methods to get movies......Let's see, Sony owns what? a CE company, a movie studio, and possibly the format that may bring HD into the home, the same company that brought you the rootkit....No thanks, they will have to EARN my trust....:mad:

it sure as hell won't be spent on an unfinished spec, buggy BD-J infested, mess of a format..

Don:mad:

What is BD-J infested, mess of a format?

Sound and Vision said that one could buy a blu-ray and an hd-dvd player for the price of a player that would handle both formats. But, I think that until the rank and file public buy into some format, any format, the releases will continue to be few. I want to see a video rental with rows of HD discs, not a little niche in the back with a few of each format.

Now that Warner has gone Blu Ray only, the demise of HD DVD has begun.
Does this mean we won't be seeing new combo players going forward?


HUH?? Didn't Samsung JUST announce this new player at CES????

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=970888

What is BD-J infested, mess of a format?

Sound and Vision said that one could buy a blu-ray and an hd-dvd player for the price of a player that would handle both formats. But, I think that until the rank and file public buy into some format, any format, the releases will continue to be few. I want to see a video rental with rows of HD discs, not a little niche in the back with a few of each format.

Floydster. I think you messed up your quotes. I never made such a statement. I have no problem with Blu-ray becoming the HDM standard.

Excellent question. I was personally hoping that HDM would go the way of DVD+RW and DVD-R -- with dual format players. Unfortunately, the mass media seems to be fixated on the Beta/VHS model, and will discourage HDM adoption until there is a single format. I believe Warner and others have hard data that supports the idea that there must be a single format.

I started a thread that showed Paramount may be going Blu-Ray i.e. another possible studio defection. While I own the 5k, I am pleased that we are starting to get direction with regards to a single format (and I did not care which). The VHS/Beat confusion is valid: Consumers are confused, hi-def video hardware/software is slower than expected. The audio industry had the potential to go to a higher resolution format (SACD/DVD-Audio), and that confused people and adoption stalled (the impact of MP3 is another subject altogether). Now neither has support outside of a small group of audiophiles to the consumer electronic companies' detriment.

As for the DVD+RW and DVD-R issue, I could not be bothered with the this-one-is-better-than-that issue there also, so I buy DVD-R only because I know it will work on my systems. I don't care for the engineering minutiae that differentiates these two formats. My point being: I consciously have to make a decision which format I am supporting. This line of thinking is already influencing my DVD buying decisions. I have only one HD-DVD (Bladerunner) and the rest are all Blu-Ray.

Yes, I think we will ultimately go a single format because the content providers need more revenues given that CD sales are declining and DVD sales are flattening. Why would <insert studio name> care that there are 2 formats, which when combined results in 0.5x sales, while if there were a single format, sales would be 2.0x (with "x" being hi-def DVD sales, and the numbers chosen to make the point).

so would it be smart ot jump on the bh200 as soon as my local BB has one in stock as i have ablut 7 hddvd?

I haven't seen this question posed before, so here goes.

Does anyone think that the popularity of combo players has been a catalyst in polarizing studios that were straddling the format fence?

Perhaps Paramount and now Warner, saw the increasing interest and market potential for these combo players.

Furthermore, they saw such devices as only extending the format war, and these studios simply did not wish or plan to support/manufacture two formats for every title indefinitely?

Spence

Found this on Gizmodo;
http://gizmodo.com/341906/interview-samsung-says-theres-life-after-hollywood-for-hd-dvd

Seems Samsung think HD DVD is dead movie vise, but think HD DVD might be the choice for personal/PC movie storage.

Upswing: Samsung's going to be keep pumping out dual-format players, so that people can easily watch the personal stuff and the Hollywood stuff on the same deck. "Most people...don't care about what format is most popular," says Jun. :D

JanOve

As for the DVD+RW and DVD-R issue, I could not be bothered with the this-one-is-better-than-that issue there also, so I buy DVD-R only because I know it will work on my systems. I don't care for the engineering minutiae that differentiates these two formats. My point being: I consciously have to make a decision which format I am supporting. This line of thinking is already influencing my DVD buying decisions. I have only one HD-DVD (Bladerunner) and the rest are all Blu-Ray.

Yes, I think we will ultimately go a single format because the content providers need more revenues given that CD sales are declining and DVD sales are flattening. Why would <insert studio name> care that there are 2 formats, which when combined results in 0.5x sales, while if there were a single format, sales would be 2.0x (with "x" being hi-def DVD sales, and the numbers chosen to make the point).

I think you miss the point.

Does anyone even care if only DVD-R is the only one being produced (or is it DVD+R? I have no idea). The PLAYERS all take both so that the consumer doesn't have to worry about converting, or anything actually.

Since chipsets have been developed that support both (and will shortly cost the same as those that support blu only), why not use them? It's not like you're going to be adding features to the HD DVD side, but why not support the legacy discs?

Or is the idea to punish those that "chose wrong"? Spite is really the only reason not to include legacy modes when it costs little or nothing.

End of combo players? Hardly. Even if HD-DVD died right now (which it hasn't), I don't see why that'd end combo players. Many consumers have existing HD-DVD libraries; some of them quite large. A combo player is the easiest way to migrate these people to Blu-ray.

I would say reports of HD-DVD's death have been greatly exaggerated. It's not likely to win, but that doesn't guarantee that it'll go away either. The extremely similar nature of these formats makes it much more likely that HD-DVD will stick around as a secondary format and that combo players will prevail.

End of combo players? Hardly. Even if HD-DVD died right now (which it hasn't), I don't see why that'd end combo players. Many consumers have existing HD-DVD libraries; some of them quite large. A combo player is the easiest way to migrate these people to Blu-ray.


I disagree. The easiest way for these people to migrate is to simply buy a Bluray player. They already have a player capable of playing HD-DVD's, why would they need another?

I disagree. The easiest way for these people to migrate is to simply buy a Bluray player. They already have a player capable of playing HD-DVD's, why would they need another?

Note to begin with we are not talking about the $200 players we need to keep, but the disc collection, which could easily have cost over $1000.

Issues:

1) Most TVs have two HDMI inputs. One for cable, one for HDM. Out of ports, even if one wanted to live with 2-channel sound. And perhaps one has other devices, like multiple DVRs.

2) Same for AV receivers, at least under $1000, Only two HDMI inputs at best. HDMI 1.3 only if you're lucky.

3) People with older expensive AV receivers (pre-HDMI 1.3) or too few HDMI ports (or none) have two options: use optical audio inputs that top out at DTS Core (1.5Mbs), or use 5.1 or 7.1 analog inputs (of which there is invariably a single set).

Now one could upgrade their AV receiver, but that can be an expense greater than all the rest (a new Sony that has 3 HDMI 1.3 inputs is $1000 and that's about the bottom of the barrel with that spec).

For me and for others, the best solution seems to be a good, full audio decoder set, dual-format player with 7.1 analog out. That way my 3 year old $1600 Denon receiver isn't trash, I get to enjoy the new blu-ray world, and I keep my 61 HD DVDs that cost me quite a bit.

For me and for others, the best solution seems to be a good, full audio decoder set, dual-format player with 7.1 analog out. That way my 3 year old $1600 Denon receiver isn't trash, I get to enjoy the new blu-ray world, and I keep my 61 HD DVDs that cost me quite a bit.

That may be the best solution, but you were referring to the easiest solution above. I still think the easiest is to get a standalone Bluray player. And if you're out of HDMI ports, there's always component to fall back upon. I honestly think that the market for dual format players will be miniscule and may not be large enough for manufacturers to continue to pursue.

That may be the best solution, but you were referring to the easiest solution above. I still think the easiest is to get a standalone Bluray player. And if you're out of HDMI ports, there's always component to fall back upon. I honestly think that the market for dual format players will be miniscule and may not be large enough for manufacturers to continue to pursue.

I don't know if downrezzing was the issue, but on the Moody Blues HDDVD, component looked noticalbly bad compared to HDMI?

I don't know if downrezzing was the issue, but on the Moody Blues HDDVD, component looked noticalbly bad compared to HDMI?

HDDVD content should not be downres'ed over component. It should be 1080p as well. Perhaps the display doesn't handle analog content as well as digital?

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners.

The only market now for dual format players will be existing HD DVD owners.

Which is apparently a market of 1M plus consumers in North America alone, most of whom would love a DF player.

Why does everyone refer to these as coasters??? I am a proud HD DVD owner and I will still be watching my beloved discs in 1-2 years time.

Not like I'm going to say, "Oh no honey! We can't put that lowly HD DVD in our player. They don't make those anymore and it will blow up our theater if we press play."

Coasters lol. We already have players that don't discriminate between the discs. It's only going to get less expensive to make df players not more.

Calling HD-DVD's "coasters" are really laughable. Neither side was ever going to end up like that because there will continue to be solutions to play both.

That may be the best solution, but you were referring to the easiest solution above. I still think the easiest is to get a standalone Bluray player. And if you're out of HDMI ports, there's always component to fall back upon. I honestly think that the market for dual format players will be miniscule and may not be large enough for manufacturers to continue to pursue.Component doesn't solve the audio issue. The only way to get full audio is through analog 5.1 or through HDMI. The AV receiver is usally the bottleneck and a real expense to upgrade. A single player with analog out allows an AV receiver with no HDMI to still be quite useful.

Component doesn't solve the audio issue. The only way to get full audio is through analog 5.1 or through HDMI. The AV receiver is usally the bottleneck and a real expense to upgrade. A single player with analog out allows an AV receiver with no HDMI to still be quite useful.

In addition to that, I had heard that component could also be "down-rez'd" via DRM settings in the future.

...at least that is what has been discussed regarding component connections and satellite receivers.

If the rumours we're hearing about Universal and Paramount are true, I'd have to think the dual disc player will stay on shelfs for this manufacturing run, then end. This would give HD-DVD owners a way to play the 4-500 titles on HD-DVD then move over to BD.

In addition to that, I had heard that component could also be "down-rez'd" via DRM settings in the future.

...at least that is what has been discussed regarding component connections and satellite receivers.

Both sides promised not to do that for competitive reasons ... that no longer exist.

If the rumours we're hearing about Universal and Paramount are true, I'd have to think the dual disc player will stay on shelfs for this manufacturing run, then end. This would give HD-DVD owners a way to play the 4-500 titles on HD-DVD then move over to BD.

Like many blu-ray owners, you miss the point. Analyze this as if you had an HD DVD collection instead, and it was inconvenient to have two players.

Like many blu-ray owners, you miss the point. Analyze this as if you had an HD DVD collection instead, and it was inconvenient to have two players.

For those who might be wondering why we've not seen more players with capability of both SACD and DVD Audio playback (as a analog to the current discussion) keep in mind that neither SACD or DVD Audio formats reached the market penetration of Blu-ray and HD DVD.

It will be interesting to see what happens regarding the combo players. What I do know is that none of my friends or any of my family have an HD player. Most are just now getting HD TVs and several are just now getting HD via satellite. Mostly because they have seen it at my house. Given this news I would expect all of them to go BD in the next 6 months to 2 years. Probably when we hit the critical numbers mentioned it the Samsung interview above. I just ordered a Dell with a BD burner. Not because I choose it over HD DVD (I don't care which wins) but because that is what they offered and I have had good success with Dells. I guess I will start research how to produce BD disks with my new HD camcorder. Oh, which is AVCHD and is basically compatible with BD. I don't know about you, but I sure feel like I am being pushed in one direction...

I think you miss the point.

Does anyone even care if only DVD-R is the only one being produced (or is it DVD+R? I have no idea). The PLAYERS all take both so that the consumer doesn't have to worry about converting, or anything actually.

Since chipsets have been developed that support both (and will shortly cost the same as those that support blu only), why not use them? It's not like you're going to be adding features to the HD DVD side, but why not support the legacy discs?

Or is the idea to punish those that "chose wrong"? Spite is really the only reason not to include legacy modes when it costs little or nothing.

No, my point was: when you have 2 standards, especially one in the nascent stage of introduction (like hi-def DVDs), a consumer can mitigate adoption risk by buying a dual format player. However, at the back of mind is always the question: which format could win? And it is the answer to that question that could influence which disk format disk you purchase. Currently, I own more Blu-Ray DVDs than HD-DVDs. In other words, by passive actions (not buying as many HD-DVDs as Blu-Ray), you could influence perception and perhaps maybe even ultimate adoption.

With regards to the fact that there are chipsets that support both formats, unfortunately you do not have the majority of OEMs on your side. The OEMs have selected which single format they are supporting. It is only the opportunistic Samsung and LG that have introduced end products that support both formats. And I don't use "opportunistic" negatively, with the information that they possessed at product development stage (presumably, that hi-def format war was going to continue for some time), they made a business decision to go format neutral.

On the other hand, Sony/Pioneer/Panasonic et al stuck to their guns (as has Toshiba) and they will NEVER support HD-DVD (Toshiba excluded, of course), irrespective of the logic trying to justify to the contrary. The point being: these parties have vested interests and will not be accommodating.

Your reference to "spite", is a little silly. If you develop a technology at great expense and you think it is the best, why would you accommodate someone else's competing technology? Capitalism does not work that way.

I have chosen to go format neutral but realise that at this stage of the game the Blu-Ray/HD-DVD format war could still go either way. Despite all the above, I am happy with my 5k in that it will allow me to watch the few HD-DVDs that I will purchase/watch.

On the other hand, Sony/Pioneer/Panasonic et al stuck to their guns (as has Toshiba) and they will NEVER support HD-DVD (Toshiba excluded, of course), irrespective of the logic trying to justify to the contrary. The point being: these parties have vested interests and will not be accommodating.

that's certainly true for now, but once blu ray is universally acknowledged to have won, it wouldn't be so much accommodating, as it would be differentiating your player from sony's bd-only player. after all, there are 1,000,000 hd dvd owners that will need a new player at some point.


Your reference to "spite", is a little silly. If you develop a technology at great expense and you think it is the best, why would you accommodate someone else's competing technology? Capitalism does not work that way.


because it may be easier to get a leg up on the competition by spending an extra $25 to build a true universal player than it would be to gain purely through marketing. hd dvd won't be "competing" with bd for much longer.

otoh i guess sony never offered dvd-a support, and panasonic never offered sacd support. which is why i own a denon :D

This is a step in the right direction, but I strongly disagree that this is the end of the format war. HD-DVD will be around for a while longer, even with only two studios (though who knows what other announcements will come at CES). This news will hurt the standalone HD-DVD player market much worse than the DF player market. Since there is so much HD-DVD media out there already and much more likely to come in 2008 and possibly beyond, there will definitely still be a market for reasonably priced DF players.

I totally agree with you.
Toshiba and MS has spent enoumous money on HD-DVD format, they can not give it up.
They 'll try to keep it at any cost.

if hd dvd tanks toshiba will produce a df player for awhile.

but hd dvd will most likely last through the year if not just stay around forever. If it only lasts through the year we will most likely see df players at least through 2009 or mabye even 2010 . I have my first dvd player still which was 97. So if i can buy a df player in 2010 i'd have to give up on hd dvd in 2020. Thats fine, I'll be 39.... dang i will be old

Like many blu-ray owners, you miss the point. Analyze this as if you had an HD DVD collection instead, and it was inconvenient to have two players.

No actually I haven't missed the point, but it doesn't surprise me you'd speak without knowing me, or my situation
I owned both a X2 AND a Samsung 1200, the X2 was sold the day after WB made their announcement, the titles have been selling at a somewhat slower pace.
In fact, it was inconvenient to have both players, and I WAS planning to buy the Sammy 5000, mainly for my wife who can't seem to figure out which disc goes in which player. ("now which one takes the brown ray")
I am just glad the Sammy pushed the release date of that player back, as it has saved me money.
As a huge fan of both movies (over 800 DVD's) and HD, I think this is great news for those of us with big enough displays to "need" the resolution of HD.
We have all rolled the dice, and we all knew that eventually one format would have to win out to keep HD disc alive, we also knew it would have to happen sooner than later, because as technology marches on, it won't be many more years and HD downloading will become the format of choice for the masses, which will, or may, send HD disc into niche market status again.
The dual format player will have it's place for a little while, but as HD-DVD fades, so will the dual format player.

...as HD-DVD fades, so will the dual format player.

With right around one million HD DVD players sold, it is going to be a very slow fade.

I disagree. The easiest way for these people to migrate is to simply buy a Bluray player. They already have a player capable of playing HD-DVD's, why would they need another?
In my case, my HD DVD player is the xBox add-on. I always considered this a temporary solution, as one day my xBox will suffer red-ring syndrome and the add-on is as good as a brick when the xBox dies. My intent was to use the add-on as an affordable means of enjoying high definition films until combo players like the Samsung 5000 become not only affordable, but hopefully also Blu-Ray 2.0 compliant.

In my case, my HD DVD player is the xBox add-on. I always considered this a temporary solution, as one day my xBox will suffer red-ring syndrome and the add-on is as good as a brick when the xBox dies. My intent was to use the add-on as an affordable means of enjoying high definition films until combo players like the Samsung 5000 become not only affordable, but hopefully also Blu-Ray 2.0 compliant.

same with me, i got the cheapest of each(360 addon and 1400) it only cost me 400 as BB gave 4 free in store titles and i got 10 free movies from the rebates. personally i'd wait untill the bd-up5500 drops below $500 or another stable company comes out with a low cost player( i have a toshiba dvd/vcr combo and it does things on its own randomly, like rewinding the tape 45 minutes after i hit stop) that supports the full 2.0 profile.