What crossover should I be using in my AVR? I have a set of RM10's along with a PSW 10 Sub. I'm using the AVR to manage my crossover.

Thanks,

What crossover should I be using in my AVR? I have a set of RM10's along with a PSW 10 Sub. I'm using the AVR to manage my crossover.

Thanks,What is the frequency response of the RM10? General rule-of-thumb is to set it at 10-20Hz above the -3dB LF point.

I have the same question except I'm using a PSW111 subwoofer and an Onkyo 605. Here are the specs for the RM10:

Overall Frequency
Response 95 Hz - 24kHz
Lower -3dB Limit 130Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 20kHz
Nominal Impedance 8 ohms
Minimum Impedance 4 ohms
Recommended Amplifier Power 10 -100 w/channel
Efficiency 89 dB

Also, I haven't adjusted any of the sub settings on the sub except volume. Should I if I adjust the crossover inside the AVR? Right now I have all the speakers set to 100hz and the LFE is set to 125hz.

1. Since the -3dB point is 130Hz, you want to set the crossover ABOVE that point. Unfortunately, that will make the location of the subwoofer audibly more apparent but the RM10 really has no bass.
2. The sub's crossover should be OFF or as high as possible.
3. The AVR's sub crossover is for LFE only and should be around 120Hz.

Sorry for bringing this old thread up, but I wanted to confirm what the ideal cross over would be for these speakers (RM10)?

Is it 120 or 110?


WOW, talk about messing my brain.

At the Polk website forum (check it here (https://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62335&highlight=rm10+crossover))
post#5 it says to set the cross over to 150???

So whos right??

Sorry for bringing this old thread up, but I wanted to confirm what the ideal cross over would be for these speakers (RM10)?

Is it 120 or 110?


WOW, talk about messing my brain.

At the Polk website forum (check it here (https://www.polkaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?t=62335&highlight=rm10+crossover))
post#5 it says to set the cross over to 150???

So whos right??No discrepancy. They say 150. I said or, at least, I implied 150. (130 + 20).

Of course, that will let the sub be quite localizable and you would need a sub with response above 150Hz.

No discrepancy. They say 150. I said or, at least, I implied 150. (130 + 20).

Of course, that will let the sub be quite localizable and you would need a sub with response above 150Hz.

Thanks, I guess I misread your post.
So when you say above 130 you really meant it. :)

Now this leads me to another question.
I got the Yamaha RX-V663 and it doesnt offer 150 cross over.
It's options are 110Hz, 120Hz, 160Hz, 200Hz.

In this context is it better to set it @ 160HZ or change it to 120HZ?

160hz compared to 150hz does it make a big difference?


BTW the sub was part of the package. Its the Polk SW10, heres the specs (http://www.polkaudio.com/homeaudio/specs/individual/subwoofers/psw10/).

I dont know how to read these specs but please tell me if I am wrong.
The sub picks sounds @160 (which turns out to be the cross over on the avr) so that means that altohugh the RM10 cant play anything below 150Hz it doesnt really matter as the sub will pick it up, is this correct?

Right. 160Hz it is, unfortunately. Let me advise you to put the sub up front and close to the center channel, if possible.

Thanks for the advice.
The sub is actually not too far from the center speaker anyway, so its alright.

Cheers.

The only problem with using the 160 Xover depends on how accurate Polk's specs are.

Overall Frequency Response 35Hz - 200Hz
Lower -3dB Limit 40Hz
Upper -3dB Limit 160Hz
Crossover variable 80Hz - 160Hz

You are already at the -3db point of the upper end of the FR and you are also getting into the subs built in Xover limit. This may interact with the AVR's Xover.

Good luck.

You are already at the -3db point of the upper end of the FR and you are also getting into the subs built in Xover limit. This may interact with the AVR's Xover.

Good luck.

I understand what you are saying but the AVR does not leave me with any choice but either 120 or 160.

I got all of this as a package, so I am hoping that however made this a package knew what they were doing. :)

No discrepancy. They say 150. I said or, at least, I implied 150. (130 + 20).

Of course, that will let the sub be quite localizable and you would need a sub with response above 150Hz.

Hi Karl,

On your post# you said to set it up @ 120Hz. What did you mean by it?
I guess thats where I got confused and asked if it was better 120 or 110...

I understand what you are saying but the AVR does not leave me with any choice but either 120 or 160.

I got all of this as a package, so I am hoping that however made this a package knew what they were doing. :)Not saying you have much choice. Just letting you know that, if the crossovers interact, you may get too steep of a roll-off at the upper end of the sub FR and wind up with a hole in the crossover between the sub and the speakers. Even if there is a hole, you may not notice it. Hopefully, since it is an analog setting, turning the sub's crossover all the way up will actually get it out of the way.

Hi Karl,

On your post# you said to set it up @ 120Hz. What did you mean by it?
I guess thats where I got confused and asked if it was better 120 or 110...Do you mean the sub? Well, the LFE setting in the AVR should be at 120Hz since that is as high as LFE ever gets but the crossover in the sub itself should be OFF or as high as possible. You do know that sub output and LFE are not the same things?

The problems you are facing are due to the weaknesses of this speaker system which, imho, is totally inadequate for decent performance.

Do you mean the sub? Well, the LFE setting in the AVR should be at 120Hz since that is as high as LFE ever gets but the crossover in the sub itself should be OFF or as high as possible.

Lets eliminate all confusion.
On the audio receiver the crossover should be set @ 120Hz and on the psw10 it should be turned all the way up (which is 160Hz)?
Am I correct?

You do know that sub output and LFE are not the same things?
Well... err... not really.I certainly need to read on these things. :)
Sub output is the range that the sub can produce sound, LFE is the cut off for the high and lows, for example a cross over of 120Hz means, above that it goes to the RM10 and below to the sub?
Please educate me? Thanks

EDIT; Found this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=748147)
Lots of info, too technical for me. :)


The problems you are facing are due to the weaknesses of this speaker system which, imho, is totally inadequate for decent performance.

You think so?
I've read reviews all over the place and they are mostly positive, especially for thesound performance.
Please explain what the weaknesses are so I will know for next time.
This is starting to be interesting.
Thanks.

Lets eliminate all confusion.
On the audio receiver the crossover should be set @ 120Hz and on the psw10 it should be turned all the way up (which is 160Hz)?
Am I correct?Yes.


Well... err... not really.I certainly need to read on these things. :)
Sub output is the range that the sub can produce sound, LFE is the cut off for the high and lows, for example a cross over of 120Hz means, above that it goes to the RM10 and below to the sub?
Please educate me? ThanksLFE is a separate track on the source material, i.e., the .1 in 5.1. It can have a bandwidth up to 120Hz but usually does not. It is directed to the subwoofer in most systems.

In addition, if the system is bass managed (as yours must be), the low frequencies, below what the L/C/R/SL/SR can handle, is re-routed to the subwoofer along with the LFE.

That's why labelling the output from the AVR or the input on the sub as LFE is a misnomer.

I've read reviews all over the place and they are mostly positive, especially for thesound performance.
Please explain what the weaknesses are so I will know for next time.
This is starting to be interesting.
Thanks.I have never seen or heard this system but, imho, any system in which all the satellites are incapable of a -3dB response at 80Hz (or less) is inadequate on the face of it. The major reason is that such weenie speakers require that the sub handle significant signals above 80Hz and that makes the sub too discretely localizable when it should not be.

The major reason is that such weenie speakers require that the sub handle significant signals above 80Hz

Wow … Karl gettin down!:p

Wow … Karl gettin down!:pIt's Kal, dammit!

Hey Carl (jk :p),

I have an SVS SBS-01 5.0 speaker package, and the recommended crossover is 80Hz (makes sense when they're rated 68Hz +/- 3db anechoic).

My problem is my receiver's lowest crossover option is 100Hz.

I have an Elemental Designs A3-250 subwoofer.

Am I stuck with the 100Hz of my receiver, or could I implement the crossover on the subwoofer somehow?

I don't like the idea of setting my mains to LARGE, but if you think that would be okay in my case, I'll try it out.

Thanks in advance Kal (or anyone else),

-Brian

Hey Carl (jk :p),

I have an SVS SBS-01 5.0 speaker package, and the recommended crossover is 80Hz (makes sense when they're rated 68Hz +/- 3db anechoic).

My problem is my receiver's lowest crossover option is 100Hz.

I have an Elemental Designs A3-250 subwoofer.

Am I stuck with the 100Hz of my receiver, or could I implement the crossover on the subwoofer somehow?Probably.

I don't like the idea of setting my mains to LARGE, but if you think that would be okay in my case, I'll try it out.I don't think it would be good for your SVS speakers and it would give you doubled bass.

Dagnabit :p, that's what I figured.

Ah well, I've set my subwoofer near my mains, and it hasn't been too bad, I was just hoping for better.

Thanks for the reply Kal,

-Brian

Hey Carl (jk ),

I have an SVS SBS-01 5.0 speaker package, and the recommended crossover is 80Hz (makes sense when they're rated 68Hz +/- 3db anechoic).


The maybe rated to 68Hz but I think they will SUCK PERIOD under 100Hz. Its a marketing term more then anything (welcome to the world of AV BS!!!), they dont do below 100Hz very well period!!!


Its pure science here, those speakers are just too small to produce quality sound at low frequencies. You are one of many, many out there that will lack the mid-bass component (60 Hz to 120Hz) because your mains are better off at 120Hz and above your sub is better off playing only 60Hz and below and you are left with a big gap (60Hz to 120Hz).


For now set your crossover to 100Hz and let your eD sub run up too 100Hz.

When I measured my speakers with REW, with the meter held a few inches in front of the speakers it measured flat (as expected), to (what surprised me) 68Hz almost exactly.

If I'm not getting good extension off my speakers, I'm pretty sure that would be a fault of my room.

Why do you say they "will SUCK PERIOD under 100Hz"? Do you just take the rolloff point and add a few hertz for good measure? :p

-Brian

Why do you say they "will SUCK PERIOD under 100Hz"? Do you just take the rolloff point and add a few hertz for good measure?


its about the sceince behind producing SPL at 80Hz, I guess when I say they suck period Im being very subjective. Yes, Im sure we can get a nice measurement to 80Hz, I have seen it with the small Ascend HTM-200s I demoed but 75 dB is one thing, dynamic range is another, they simply wont hit high dBs when needed and at the actually seating position not a few inches away.

Conclusion, small speakers should be crossed over at 100Hz or higher!!

What it really means is that small speakers are automatically limited to very low quality bass, even if its possible to turn up the subwoofer for a "loud" effect. For a crossover to ACTUALLY work with minimal distortion near the crossover frequency, you need the crossover frequency to be DOUBLE the -3 point of the speaker (an octave above). If your speakers are -3 at 130hz... there is so much low frequency content that either A) won't get played or B) will be redirected to the subwoofer and not come from the right direction unless you just happen to have a separate subwoofer for each speaker or the subwoofer is exactly in the middle between your speakers. Which people in your position don't often do.

The only thing I have against very small speakers is that its impossible to make them sound anywhere near as good as "normal bookshelf speakers" due to the very high crossover frequency. I wouldn't want to use a crossover above 80hz... and that would dictate speakers that play to 40hz ideally, though speakers that play to 80hz with even a 120hz crossover would still be a big improvement.

I don't own "very small speakers".

The SVS SBS-01 Speakers are "normal bookshelf speakers". They measure H x W x D of 12" x 7" x 9.5"

They have a 5.25" polypro. cone and a 1" Clear-Silk draphram tweeter.

They're $225 a pair. I have the 5.0 system.

The center channel has the same drivers as the bookshelfs, except it has 2 instead of 1 5.25" polypro. cones.

These speakers are rated:

Frequency response - 68Hz - 20Khz +/- 3dB

8 ohms

20W - 120W

-------

My measurements with REW confirmed their frequency response.

So I just simply fail to see what you all know that I don't.

Please enlighten me so that next time I purchase speakers, I don't buy ones that you say don't do what I've measured them to do, and what the manufacturer (SVSound in this case) apparently lied and somehow manipulated the speakers to show results that they promised yet somehow (according to you) are incapable of.

I just don't know what I'm missing,

please help me

Thanks,

-Brian

The SVS SBS-01 Speakers are "normal bookshelf speakers". They measure H x W x D of 12" x 7" x 9.5"

They have a 5.25" polypro. cone and a 1" Clear-Silk draphram tweeter.


they are small speakers.

5.25" drivers do not go low, its just scientific fact.

So I just simply fail to see what you all know that I don't.Note that the FR you refer to is at about 85dB SPL. A small box with a 5.25" LF driver will not be able to sustain such a FR at the higher SPLs needed for HT, especially for transients. Result will be compression and/or distortion. Nothing to fault SVS for. Simply an example of Hoffman's Iron Law. Small box size, efficiency (related to output level) and low frequency extension: Pick any two! See http://ldsg.snippets.org/appdx-a.php

Thanks Kal,

That actually DOES explain it.

Is there a way to measure dynamic range and when compression sets in, so as to avoid it?

-Brian

Thanks Kal,

That actually DOES explain it.

Is there a way to measure dynamic range and when compression sets in, so as to avoid it?

-BrianYes. Not many labs do it but Don Keele and Dick Heyser did so in their loudspeaker tests for the late Audio Magazine.