I may be wrong but wasn't HistHD one of the new D* HD channels that showed squashed widescreen?

I'm watching Modern Marvels in perfect aspect ratio. I don't think it's true HD but at least it's proper aspect.

My mistake.

Shockwave is hideously squashed and therefore unwatchable on the HD version of History channel.

Of course SD History is unwatchable by default.

Damn!

It's so freakin' annoying because it's squished and letterboxed! It's already got the right ratio, why can't they just zoom the whole image instead of stretching it?

I watch a lot Hist HD.. seeing some of the aspect ratios they send makes me wonder if anyone there is watching..:rolleyes:

I sent an email to their viewer relations about this practice - no reply :mad:

So to follow BravoHD+, should this channel be renamed HistoryHD?

I also sent in an email (expecting no reply and no action)

It had the Subject line: The Universe is squished...

... please fix it.

I is just unfathomable how they could be doing this.

It had the Subject line: The Universe is squished...
... please fix it.
I is just unfathomable how they could be doing this.The Universe was fine until about mid-December, when they stopped broadcasting proper aspect ratio HD feeds and started broadcasting stretched letterboxed SD feeds.

I don't know why they switched from HD to SD, but it is the reason the Universe is messed up. Real HD shows on History are shown in the proper aspect ratio.

The Universe was fine until about mid-December, when they stopped broadcasting proper aspect ratio HD feeds and started broadcasting stretched letterboxed SD feeds.

I don't know why they switched from HD to SD, but it is the reason the Universe is messed up. Real HD shows on History are shown in the proper aspect ratio.

It happened right at the same time there was a fire for the uplink center for History, A&E and NFL Network. Before the fire there was no stretching at all,4:3 was shown when it was 4:3. If it was 16:9 ratio , it was hd. NFL Network did go down for several days but never stretched its material.

It happened right at the same time there was a fire for the uplink center for History, A&E and NFL Network. Before the fire there was no stretching at all,4:3 was shown when it was 4:3. If it was 16:9 ratio , it was hd. NFL Network did go down for several days but never stretched its material.
That fire happened many many months ago. You would think by now they would have it fixed, if that was the problem.

I recorded 3 consecutive episodes of The Universe the other day and 2 were squished and one looked great. I think it's just a matter of when the shows were produced.

Wait a minute: squashed widescreen?

Wasn't "stretch-o-vision" bad enough?

Unless you're just referring to 16:9 letterboxed, in 4:3 mode - that's not what I would call squashed widescreen. The picture's not "squashed" out of proportion in any way.

If so, the thread title ought to be changed.

That fire happened many many months ago. You would think by now they would have it fixed, if that was the problem.

I totally agree. I think that they just thought it looked good because it filled up the rest of the screen. I believe once the fire happened they could not uplink the material the correct way for a while. Then some peon thought it would be a good idea to keep stretching. I think it just shows us that they do not watch any of there own programming. I have not met or seen anyone that thought thought that it is a good idea to stretch.

Just to be clear here, what they are doing is taking a 16:9 HDTV picture and squashing it vertically with black bars top and bottom.

It is just plain moronic.

Just to be clear here, what they are doing is taking a 16:9 HDTV picture and squashing it vertically with black bars top and bottom.

It is just plain moronic.
No, they're taking a letterboxed SD image and stretching it horizontally. What you mentioned implies they are altering HD instead of SD. The proper appearance for the affect programs should be black bars all the way around - similar to the way a non-anamophic widescreen DVD would look without zooming.

Well, technically the proper appearance should be actual HD, but if we're not going to get it, properly formatted SD (letterboxed or not) would be the next best thing.

What a good news/bad news situation...Comcast finally adds History HD, but all the SD material is mutilated. The only solution, I guess, it to TIVO the pre-2007 material on The History Channel, Tivo the 2008 material on HD, and record the 2007 material on both. I was momentarily elated when this was added - now, not so much.

And then I tried watching a movie on Universal HD... commercials. Damn.

What a good news/bad news situation...Comcast finally adds History HD, but all the SD material is mutilated.They're certainly not the only ones butchering SD. :rolleyes::mad:

Here's my email to THC Viewer Relations and their response:

I've been watching several different programs using your HD service
and the program material is excellent, however, your tech ops group
is messing with the imaging. I'm watching a program named "The
States" using a Dish satellite receiver. The SD feed is a 16:9 image
within a 4:3 format while the HD image is stretched horizontally to
fill the 16:9 space but leaves black bars on top and bottom of the
picture. Why can't the HD feed fill the entire 16:9 screen since it
is a 16:9 original?

Please fix!!.

Response:

Thank you for your recent comments concerning The History Channel in HD.

We appreciate the fact that you took the time to contact us because your views on our programs provide the most direct and accurate information upon which we can fine tune this new THC venture.

We are currently trying to alleviate the picture distortion problem associated with our HD channel.

If you have any further questions or comments regarding this issue, please contact us.

Cordially,
Viewer Relations


This can't be rocket science - should be an easy fix if they just pay attention to what's going on.

No, they're taking a letterboxed SD image and stretching it horizontally. What you mentioned implies they are altering HD instead of SD.

I'll take another look, but it appeared to me much better than SD (but I was back from the set quite a ways.)

I recorded 3 consecutive episodes of The Universe the other day and 2 were squished and one looked great. I think it's just a matter of when the shows were produced.No, it's a matter of when they were broadcast.

For example, the Big Bang was in HD and proper aspect ratio when I recorded it on its first run, but later Big Bang reruns were stretched.

I think it's because they're broadcasting the Universe in SD now (for unknown reasons), and all SD goes through their stretching filter whether it's 4:3 or not.

This was also covered in these two threads, A&E HD...what are they doing?!? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11700303#post11700303) & A&E HD and "Stretch-O-Vision" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11671657)?

From those threads, the timing of the fire was just a coincidence. Apparently, from these two posts, the decision to go to strech-o-vision came from on high.

Today, I spoke with a technician at Ascent Media Networks (the uplink facility for A&E Networks which includes the A&E and History channels) and A&E Director of Operations, Rob Jackson and both told me that A&E's management made the decision to change from OAR to 16:9 upconverted stretchovision. They agreed it didn't look good but they could do nothing about it.

Based upon my conversation with A&E's Director of Operations, he said the fire had nothing to do with the format change. He said A&E's management already made the decision before the fire occurred and coincidentally made the change when both A&E and History came back up. A&E Networks call the shots, everyone else in the chain just complies regardless of how they feel about it.

I decided to say squashed only because it's not the same as TNT style stretch-o-vision and hoped to avoid confusion with that particular type of deformation, which is more like some weird Mercator projection.

It's just easier to describe THCHD's AR as "the top and bottom being compressed", which makes me intuitively think "squashed". At least when viewed on a widescreen monitor. If it's technically incorrect, you'll have to forgive my semantic ignorance.

In my OP I refer to HD and SD mainly in terms of which version of THC I'm watching, or not, for now. I already assume most programming isn't HD. The same goes for the other's(DiscHD, SciHD, TLCHD) but at least they're usually watchable.

Sorry, BTW, if this has been discussed ad nausea in other threads. I was surprised to see a program that looked normal, hoping the problem had been fixed but ended up posting a little prematurely.

No, they're taking a letterboxed SD image and stretching it horizontally. What you mentioned implies they are altering HD instead of SD.

I took a closer look and indeed it does appear to be SD.

What ever it is, it is mainly an abomination.

P.S., I also saw it today on Modern Marvels. It is really as shame as the programming is otherwise first-rate (I would never have thought I would find myself watching something called the "History Channel.")

I'll take another look, but it appeared to me much better than SD (but I was back from the set quite a ways.)

I took a closer look and indeed it does appear to be SD.

What ever it is, it is mainly an abomination.

P.S., I also saw it today on Modern Marvels. It is really as shame as the programming is otherwise first-rate (I would never have thought I would find myself watching something called the "History Channel.")

The only reason it looked "better" is because it was getting more bandwidth on the HD channel.

I decided to say squashed only because it's not the same as TNT style stretch-o-vision and hoped to avoid confusion with that particular type of deformation, which is more like some weird Mercator projection.
It's almost exactly the same. The only difference is, the stretch involves letterboxed instead of 4x3 SD. TNT also uses a non-linear stretch.

It's still the same deal: SD material is being stretched horizontally.

It's almost exactly the same. The only difference is, the stretch involves letterboxed instead of 4x3 SD. TNT also uses a non-linear stretch.

It's still the same deal: SD material is being stretched horizontally.

Being more specific it is 16:9 SD material on a 4:3 frame being stretched horizontally to fit a 16:9 HD frame. All they need to do is stretch it vertically to fit a full 16:8 frame. One thing that might be causing a problem is the ID bug - I've seen part of it fall outside the 16:9 image.

I recorded 3 consecutive episodes of The Universe the other day and 2 were squished and one looked great. I think it's just a matter of when the shows were produced.

ok, tonight I watched 2 episodes of The Universe, the first one, Alien Planets said it was from 2007 and it was perfect, no distortion, no complaints.... next episode was Alien Moons and said it was new 2008, but was squished. When I saw the info for the second episode, I was confident it would not be squished since it said 2008, but I was wrong.:( I really don't know technically how this channel can be so inconsistant, but I sure hope they fix this problem soon.

Being more specific it is 16:9 SD material on a 4:3 frame being stretched horizontally to fit a 16:9 HD frame. All they need to do is stretch it vertically to fit a full 16:8 frame. One thing that might be causing a problem is the ID bug - I've seen part of it fall outside the 16:9 image.
In other words, you simply want it blown up proportionally to fill the screen without stretching or cropping. I feel that's perfectly reasonable, since it wouldn't affect the AR and would look better if done from the source.

The bug shouldn't be a problem. Those are usually inserted live, at the time of broadcast. If the video filled the screen, the bug would be within the video.

This was also covered in these two threads, A&E HD...what are they doing?!? (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11700303#post11700303) & A&E HD and "Stretch-O-Vision" (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11671657)?

From those threads, the timing of the fire was just a coincidence. Apparently, from these two posts, the decision to go to strech-o-vision came from on high.

Wow, how can people so stupid be running a TV network?

Wow, how can people so stupid be running a TV network?

From what I'm seeing on the History Channel programming I've watched recently, here's what i think is happening at the History Channel's Master Control:

1. Programming consists of primarily 4:3 originals with an ever growing amount of 16:9 material.

2. Most of their playback equipment is SD 4:3, creating a need to up-convert this material to feed the HD version of their network.

3. Since most of their programming is 4:3 they have elected to stretch (distort) the picture horizontally to fill the 16:9 frame rather than add side bars like ESPN and maintain the OAR.

4. When 16:9 material is played back using 4:3 equipment, they end up with bars on all 4 sides of the image.

5. Someone in MC is asleep and does not realize they need to change the up-converter to expand the picture vertically as well as horizontally, but then watch during commercial breaks to reset, if necessary.

Just my thoughts on what's happening.

It seems that NEW episodes are the ones that are "squashed" 16:9.

Whenever my DVR records brand new episodes of Universe, Dogfights, or Modern Marvels they are always their crappy brand of "squashed" 16:9 like someone forgot to flip a switch.

Meanwhile if I record a rerun of those same shows that aired squashed a month or two ago now they are OAR.

Somebody needs to get their priorities straight and air the new episodes in OAR HD also.

It makes me sick that we even have to talk about AE Networks and Turner Networks crapping all over their HD customers like this.

It seems that NEW episodes are the ones that are "squashed" 16:9.Because they're being broadcast in SD, which goes through the stretching filter regardless of aspect ratio.

Instead of complaining about stretching, just complain about HD programs being incorrectly broadcast in SD. Once they flip the "HD" switch on, the aspect ratio problem will correct itself.

I know this is not simply a case of the programs being produced only in SD, because the Big Bang episode was originally broadcast in HD but was later rerun in SD.

I believe the shows with black bars top and bottom were shot in HD but are being broadcast in stretched SD (if they were broadcast in 4:3 SD you'd see black bars all around). The ones with no black bars are either HD or stretched SD.

Why are shows shot in HD not being broadcast that way? My guess is two reasons: 1. it takes time and money to convert shows shot in HD to be broadcast that way and 2. it must cost extra to broadcast a show in HD so A&E/History, et al are only doing it part of the day.

Just my opinion, of course, but I suppose it's as good as any.

I've noticed during The Universe that the History HD bug will move up and down.

A&E HD networks is a joke like TNT and TBS HD.

"The History Channel HD feed is a simulcast of the network's standard definition east coast feed," explained a network spokeswoman. "Since the beginning of last year, all of our new programming is shot in HD, and as we move forward you will continue to see more and more HD programming. Please note that the required HD delivery format for all The History Channel programs is 1080p, which we adhere to. We still have some series and specials on the network that were produced in standard definition and in order to program the full screen we must "stretch" the image. We understand this is not the perfect solution, and apologize for the quality. Also, as you can imagine, original source material, such as archival footage that is integral to many of our shows, may have to be modified."

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08018/850090-238.stm

^^^Why would they want 1080p? Aren't they 1080i? Even if they were 720p, 1080p still makes no sense. I can't imagine why they wouldn't want scan rates/resolutions that match their output...

In addition, why do they feel they "must" stretch the SD images? Do they think it's some kind of rule? If they feel that's what they should do, why apoligize for it? It sounds like even they are ashamed of their content...as they should be.

If they know it looks like crap then why do they send it crappy?

:confused:

and if they are broadcasting 1080p which somehow i still doubt -- that has to be THE WORST looking 1080p ever. Oh wait that's upconverted SD.

^^^Why would they want 1080p? Aren't they 1080i? Even if they were 720p, 1080p still makes no sense. I can't imagine why they wouldn't want scan rates/resolutions that match their output...

In addition, why do they feel they "must" stretch the SD images? Do they think it's some kind of rule? If they feel that's what they should do, why apoligize for it? It sounds like even they are ashamed of their content...as they should be.


They are 720p. All A&E networks are 720p.

^^^Why would they want 1080p? Aren't they 1080i? Even if they were 720p, 1080p still makes no sense. I can't imagine why they wouldn't want scan rates/resolutions that match their output...
Potential for future distribution on HD disc? Also, there have been various posts in this forum talking about how 720p video that originated at 1080p has higher effective resolution than if it originated at 720p.

Also, there have been various posts in this forum talking about how 720p video that originated at 1080p has higher effective resolution than if it originated at 720p.

Yes but it makes little difference if its not even being displayed correctly on the air.

If we're talking about A&E Management. I would have to say that the expression is an oxymoron. Do any of you remember when this channel actually was the Arts & Entertainment channel and they broadcast shows like Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Miss Marple, Nero Wolfe, etc with quite good dramatic as well as video quality? There was a lot of discussion on their own boards when they made the decision to become another Rerun Channel. I actually believe that they have a control room with minimum staffing. It is clear that they don't give a damn about the viewing audience.

Since Charlie at Dish claims that he'll only put on HD channels with "Complelling Content", one can only wonder what the "compelling content" is on A&E. Maybe they are paying him. As for History, it is just so, so sad.

Do any of you remember when this channel actually was the Arts & Entertainment channel and they broadcast shows like Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Miss Marple, Nero Wolfe, etc with quite good dramatic as well as video quality?I was always partial to "Lovejoy".

I was happy to see that tonight's "Life After People" was unsquashed.

^^^Why would they want 1080p? Aren't they 1080i? Even if they were 720p, 1080p still makes no sense. I can't imagine why they wouldn't want scan rates/resolutions that match their output...




Most programs were delivered to networks on Tape formats that were much higher resolution than what went over the air prior to the HDTV transition, this is not really any different. I agree, they probably figure it is easier and gives a better end product (if they do it right) to manipulate something downward, than to start out with crap from teh beginning.

THey still need to stop stretching things.

Most programs were delivered to networks on Tape formats that were much higher resolution than what went over the air prior to the HDTV transition, this is not really any different. I agree, they probably figure it is easier and gives a better end product (if they do it right) to manipulate something downward, than to start out with crap from teh beginning.

THey still need to stop stretching things.

We have a local OTA station, which IMO, perfectly handles 4:3 material. Two light blue columns with indiscrete vertical yellow lines fill the space instead of black or gray vertical bars, logos, etc. This places a pleasant frame on either side of the image giving a 3-D effect, which draws little attention. Now if other program providers could be so smart and not distort the image to fill the space.

For those who have not experienced the squished History channel programming, here is an example:

http://home.comcast.net/~larryh791/newphotos/squishedhist.jpg

I have a season pass (or whatever it is called on the HR21) to Modern Marvels and to The Universe. Whenever I find a squished program, I simply delete it on the spot.

Potential for future distribution on HD disc? Also, there have been various posts in this forum talking about how 720p video that originated at 1080p has higher effective resolution than if it originated at 720p.
That would be handled by the production company. The network doesn't make HD discs.

Most programs were delivered to networks on Tape formats that were much higher resolution than what went over the air prior to the HDTV transition, this is not really any different. I agree, they probably figure it is easier and gives a better end product (if they do it right) to manipulate something downward, than to start out with crap from teh beginning.
The programs are delivered at whatever format and resolution requested by the network. Even at 720p, the tape has a much higher quality than the actual broadcast, mostly due to bit rate. 1080p would look no different at the end of the chain. It just means more expensive equipment in the middle of the chain.

If we're talking about A&E Management. I would have to say that the expression is an oxymoron. Do any of you remember when this channel actually was the Arts & Entertainment channel and they broadcast shows like Sherlock Holmes, Poirot, Miss Marple, Nero Wolfe, etc with quite good dramatic as well as video quality? There was a lot of discussion on their own boards when they made the decision to become another Rerun Channel.

I too remember the good old days, same thing happened with A&E as happened with Bravo and at about the same time. Are they owned by the same conglomerate? If so I hate them!

Bravo is 100% owned by NBC Universal, while A&E is only 25% owned by them (along with Hearst and Disney).

The Universe is finally back to normal. Those of you tired of the squashed Universe we've been having for a month or two should start tuning in again.

The Universe is finally back to normal. Those of you tired of the squashed Universe we've been having for a month or two should start tuning in again.

Wow, why did it take so long?

Permit me to be the first to say it:

Wow, why did it take so long?

Dark Matter. :)

Permit me to be the first to say it:

Dark Matter. :)
In the brain

when i see squashed/stretcho-vision programming i just laugh, mock it, and change the channel.

it's really too bad that tnt and tbs have such sh**** hd broadcasts cause they show a lot of movies i really like. but the image is so offensive i cannot watch it. warriors/bulls game last night probably the worst had sports broadcast i have ever seen.

unbelievable. do they care just how bad their signal is?
are there any plans to improve it?

Permit me to be the first to say it:



Dark Matter. :)

And the branes...

Not that I was expecting any better, but I lasted about 30 seconds with Band of Brothers letterboxed stretchovision.

The Universe is finally back to normal. Those of you tired of the squashed Universe we've been having for a month or two should start tuning in again.

Nope. The latest episode recorded recently, Super Nova I think, was squished.

So the Universe is back to squished. Morons!

Nope. The latest episode recorded recently, Super Nova I think, was squished.

So the Universe is back to squished. Morons!
Watching it now. Man how stupid are they? My 9 month old Holland Lop rabbit could do a better job.

Watching it now. Man how stupid are they? My 9 month old Holland Lop rabbit could do a better job.

I'm not sure which is worse - squished or stretch-o-vision. Erased without watching a TBS movie last night because it was the latter.

I've now been setting my HR21 to output 480i which my TV can then unsquish.

Not the best solution (which would be for A&E to not be run by morons) but it is better than watching that squished crap.

They are 720p. All A&E networks are 720p.

So we established that they have no idea what they are doing. Sad, very sad.