View Full Version : Help!! "Reference Levels"


ShooterFan
01-05-08, 12:47 PM
I have a 360 Elite, and am running it through HDMI 1080p into a Panasonic Viera 720p native LCD, (that can process 1080p)
On the dashboard, under console HD settings there is an option for "Reference Levels" It offers "standard, intermediate, and expanded"
I have no Idea what this setting is for, (as far as I can tell, it just deepens the blacks.) It says that depending upon which setting you choose it could degrade picture quality.
My question is: a) what exactly is this setting supposed to do? and b) Which setting should I be using with my particular set-up to give me the best picture.

fdisker
01-05-08, 12:58 PM
I was playing with these settings the other day. As best as I can tell if your TV is calibrated properly for video then you'll want to leave the Reference Level at Standard. The other choices basically crushed blacks when watching video from the dashboard or the extender. I think the other settings are for folks using the VGA connection to a PC monitor where blacks are at PC levels rather than video levels.

jremy510
01-05-08, 01:40 PM
Reference level has absolutely no effect on HD. It only affects 480p playback, such as DVDs or downloaded content. You should set it to extended, that way the console will adjust the black levels of DVDs to the correct level, assuming your display input has been calibrated for HD.

For games and HD-DVDs, the setting has absolutely no effect.

SSpectre
01-05-08, 01:41 PM
Use standard. I tried the others with my Panny and it resulted in crushed blacks.

jremy510
01-05-08, 01:49 PM
Just curious, but why are you sending 1080p to a 720p display?

Foxbat121
01-05-08, 02:04 PM
Reference level has absolutely no effect on HD. It only affects 480p playback, such as DVDs or downloaded content. You should set it to extended, that way the console will adjust the black levels of DVDs to the correct level, assuming your display input has been calibrated for HD.

For games and HD-DVDs, the setting has absolutely no effect.


Wow. A lot of mis-information here!


Reference level is primarily used for VGA connection or HDMI to DVI connection. For HDMI connection, leave it at Standard.

There are two industry standards for RGB data display (both VGA and DVI use RGB). The Standard reference level is used by movie industry which use video range of 16 to 235. The other standard is what we used in PCs where video range is 0 to 255. PC monitor typically use PC reference level while most TVs use standard video reference level. Some TVs expect different reference levels on VGA or DVI port. Some can configure which level it accepts. If your output device (Xbox 360) and display device has mismatched reference level, you either get washed out color or crushed blacks.

jremy510
01-06-08, 04:10 PM
Wow. A lot of mis-information here!


Reference level is primarily used for VGA connection or HDMI to DVI connection. For HDMI connection, leave it at Standard.

There are two industry standards for RGB data display (both VGA and DVI use RGB). The Standard reference level is used by movie industry which use video range of 16 to 235. The other standard is what we used in PCs where video range is 0 to 255. PC monitor typically use PC reference level while most TVs use standard video reference level. Some TVs expect different reference levels on VGA or DVI port. Some can configure which level it accepts. If your output device (Xbox 360) and display device has mismatched reference level, you either get washed out color or crushed blacks.

No kidding about misinformation...if you are using HDMI or component, the reference level settings affect 480p playback, and have no effect on anything that the 360 displays at HD res.

Sorry to say, but you are the one that is misinformed. The setting does different things depending on what output you are using. For the OP, who is NOT using VGA, the setting will deepen blacks on 480p playback ONLY. It has zero affect on games and HD-DVD playback. If you're playing standard DVDs over an HD connection, you want the blacks deepened, because otherwise they will be washed out compared to HD.

Foxbat121
01-06-08, 04:32 PM
jremy510,

I beg to differ. There is nothing special about 480p. If you're using Component connection to a HDTV, you should use standard reference level and calibrate your TV. The reference level setting is only introduced recently in Spring 2007 update primarily to solve problems with ppl connecting XBox via VGA connection experiencing washed out colors. Back then, the only way to get 1080p HD DVD/SD DVD playback is via VGA.

Ideally, the reference level setting should only affect RGB output, i.e. VGA or DVI, not component or HDMI. However, as in many cases, designers often take shortcuts and you may experience difference effects on component or HDMI output.

As for reference levels, you can see detailed discussions in DVD forum in many threads, not related to XBox 360.

brentsg
01-06-08, 05:01 PM
No kidding about misinformation...if you are using HDMI or component, the reference level settings affect 480p playback, and have no effect on anything that the 360 displays at HD res.

Sorry to say, but you are the one that is misinformed. The setting does different things depending on what output you are using. For the OP, who is NOT using VGA, the setting will deepen blacks on 480p playback ONLY. It has zero affect on games and HD-DVD playback. If you're playing standard DVDs over an HD connection, you want the blacks deepened, because otherwise they will be washed out compared to HD.

You're wrong on this one. That setting definitely has an impact on other resolutions via HDMI.

IAMgoat
01-06-08, 05:04 PM
jremy is right on component. If you are using component the reference levels only affect 480p, as a matter of fact I believe its called black levels over component (not completely sure though, have to go and check) over vga it is called reference levels and it effects everything.

KoRn
01-06-08, 05:38 PM
Very simple folks. I can only speak on the vga aspect part and component part of this thread. I dont know about the hdmi part. The levels are for 480p playback and for vga. Vga you want to set it to Extended. That way the signals are matched. Before the update. The signals got mismatched and thats why wash out was happening. Same with 480p play back. You would want to use Extended as well. I personally use component and when selecting Extended while playing games in hd/movies there is no effect. Leaving it on Standard watching a dvd in 480p my blacks are gray. Same with the mid setting. When using Extended they are black. The way it suppose to be.