When I first started doing research into building out my home theater, I immediately (and subconsciously) ruled out projectors as being too expensive/high end, and instead focused on the plasma vs. LCD debate. After doing some research there, I found I liked the 60" Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro150-FD, which runs around $6000-$7000. I was having some issues with wall space, and it suddenly occurred to me to give projectors a closer look.

On another forum discussion, someone recommended a good Stewart screen, which would probably run about $4000. This would leave me with about $2000-3000 for the projector itself to stay within the same budget.

My question is: would a projector in the $2000-3000 be able to match (or beat?) the picture quality of the Pioneer Elite Kuro?

A follow up question to that is, if there are such projectors, why would anyone buy a Pioneer Elite (or any Plasma/LCD for that matter)? Are there any obvious advantages/disadvantages that I'm not seeing?

When I first started doing research into building out my home theater, I immediately (and subconsciously) ruled out projectors as being too expensive/high end, and instead focused on the plasma vs. LCD debate. After doing some research there, I found I liked the 60" Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro150-FD, which runs around $6000-$7000. I was having some issues with wall space, and it suddenly occurred to me to give projectors a closer look.

On another forum discussion, someone recommended a good Stewart screen, which would probably run about $4000. This would leave me with about $2000-3000 for the projector itself to stay within the same budget.

My question is: would a projector in the $2000-3000 be able to match (or beat?) the picture quality of the Pioneer Elite Kuro?

A follow up question to that is, if there are such projectors, why would anyone buy a Pioneer Elite (or any Plasma/LCD for that matter)? Are there any obvious advantages/disadvantages that I'm not seeing?

This is probably subjective but I completely suspect a Sim2 projector with DIY screen(see the DIY section for how to get Silver Light Fusion built out) would give the Kuro a run for its money in raw picture quality and do so at twice the size.

The advantage to the Plasma is basically you buy it, carry it home, turn it on and call it a day. It is extremely bright so works well in a fully lit room.

The advantage to the projector is those who use a pj regularly laugh at 60 inch screens.

I would not advise spending twice on the screen what you would on the projector but that is partly because 17 bucks in blackout cloth gives you a fairly nice picture paired with any decent pj.

I have a high-end(but not Kuro-like)55" Sony LCD and I love it but it isn't a big enough screen to really make me feel like showing off. :) The Super Bowl party will have the ladies watching that 55" tv and the guys upstairs watching a 125" screen.

$4000 screen and a sub $3000 PJ? You're not completely off base, screen quality makes a HUGE difference, but I think there are probably plateaus. I'd go with a Da-Lite High Power screen and something like a JVC RS2--or whatever the near unanimous best under $6000 PJ is nowadays.

The idea for the $4000 screen was based solely on this advice I got on another thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=967722) -- coincidentally the one that got me thinking of a projector in the first place:

"One Thing i've learned over the years is that Stewart filmscreen makes a screen for just about every application and their electric screens hold up very very well in the field. I have not had such great luck with any other major screen maker (I have by no means tried them all) but the stewarts always look good and tend to stay "flat" for the electric ones. They are Pricey! A typical 100" screen with electric is somewhere around $4k. I would consider this in the budget as IMO most electric screens have terrible tension systems and just about everything I've seen over the last 10 years develops bad waves in the surface within 2-3 years, unlike my experience with stewart filmscreen setups. Yes, other brands offer similar performance for fixed screens for less money but I'm not convinced that a large majority will match stewarts reliability in electrics (someone chime in if I'm very wrong on this...)"

How is the reliability of the Da-Lite Power screen? I have absolutely no confidence in my DIY skills, so I won't even consider that as an option for me. :)

You can get 95% of the performance for under $1K and probably a lot less.

And, to answer your question, a good $4K projector like a JVC RS1 or Sony VW60 with a good screen like a Da-Lite will indeed give you a better image than the Kuro at twice the size.

The only downside is you need light control to get the best out of it.

To be honest I don't think there is a digital front projector out there that could match the Black level or real world contrast ratio of a Kuro (even on a high end screen) .

--- Jason

It all boils down to whether you can make the room pitch black. If you can, then you will definitely want to go front projection. Personally, I would say it is debatable whether or not a front projection setup can beat a Kuro plasma, but let's put it this way - it can be a VERY close fight. What the Kuro plasmas cannot possibly match though is potential screen size. So even if the front projector setup is ever so slightly behind the Kuro plasma in some picture quality areas, it more than makes up for it IMO with the impact and experience of a truly theatre sized screen in your home!

For your $6000-$7000 budget, you won't be able to afford the JVC DLA-RS2 + a good screen. You could go the DIY route on the screen an perhaps be able to afford the RS2 that way, but I personally think that the screen makes more of a difference the better the projector is, so I probably wouldn't be recommending a DIY screen for the RS2. Instead, you'll probably want to go with the JVC DLA-RS1 and perhaps also consider the Sony VPL-VW60.

That would leave you with enough left in the budget for a very good screen. I would recommend checking out Carada's Brilliant White Criterion Frame screens for a very affordable fixed-frame screen that has about 95% the performance of Stewarts industry standard StudioTek130 screen material.

However, one thing I must suggest is that you consider an acoustically transparent screen, which will allow you to place your front speakers behind the screen for absolutely optimal speaker placement. This is a major advantage of a front projection setup: being able to place the speakers just like a commercial movie theatre, with the centre speaker at the optimal height directly behind the centre of the screen! You can use three identical speakers across the front for a completely seemless front soundstage, which is something you could simply never do with a plasma setup.

Here, you'll definitely want to check out SmX Cinema Solutions' (http://www.smxscreen.com) Pro-Line frame and CineWeave HD acoustically transparent screen material.

The combination of a JVC DLA-RS1 and SmX Pro-Line CineWeave HD screen would kill a Pioneer Kuro plasma setup IMO. Yes, I'm sure one could point to certain technical aspects of the plasmas picture that are still better, but the picture thrown by the RS1 is fantastic and the impact of a truly huge screen cannot be underestimated. The CineWeave HD screen will let you place the speakers for absolutely optimal audio and a true commercial theatre-like look and installation.

That's what I would go for with a $6000-$7000 budget in any case :)

Jon

And, to answer your question, a good $4K projector like a JVC RS1 or Sony VW60 with a good screen like a Da-Lite will indeed give you a better image than the Kuro at twice the size.

The only downside is you need light control to get the best out of it.

I think one would be happier and more impressed with the projected image by nature of its sheer size, but it is a bold statement to say that the picture itself would be "better." Those Pioneer plasmas are like looking through a window into reality.

Get some of that blue 3m tape. Mask off the wall to the screen dimensions of the Kuro...Then mask the dimensions of a projection screen size you want around it...It really gives you perspective on how much larger say 106 inch screen is to a 60...I have an 84 inch screen in theater one and a 120 inch in theater two..The 84 looks puny after watching the 120...Al

You can get 95% of the performance for under $1K and probably a lot less.



I disagree. I had perhaps the best PJ you can get under $1500(Marantz) and it is not 95% as good as my plasma in PQ. And that PJ is not under $1K by itself let alone a screen. I had an under $1K PJ(Mits.) and it was about 50% as good in PQ as my plasma.

The sheer size does make a big difference, but PQ and user friendliness is not on par.

Steve was referring to the projection screen - as in, you can get a screen from Da-Lite or Carada that will give about 95% the performance of a Stewart screen, but for less $1000 instead of $3000+. He wasn't talking about getting 95% the performance of a Kuro plasma with a sub-$1000 projector.

I agree that something like the Carada Criterion Brilliant White screen is about 95% the performance of a Stewart StudioTek130 screen and at around $800 delivered for a 100" 16:9 Carada, it is easily the much higher value in terms of bang for your buck.

No one seems to have been able to really come up with a cheap alternative to the FireHawk though, so Stewart still leads strongly for a grey screen to combat ambient side lighting. Most people opt to go with the High Power from Da-Lite if they can't afford the FireHawk since the much higher gain and retro-reflectivity does a good job of conter-acting ambient light conditions. The High Power won't retain black levels like the FireHawk, but it will increase the percentage of reflected light by a good margin, so that makes everything more visible and gives the image much more "pop" and for a much lower price.

If you can make the room pitch black though, then there is no real reason to go with the FireHawk and unless you have an extremely large screen, no real reason to go with the High Power either. The Carada Brilliant White is a nice, accurate, uniform screen with a bit of gain, just like the StudioTek130. The SmX CineWeave HD acoustically transparent screen is also a great accurate, uniform white screen with just a tiny bit of positive gain. Like I said, if you can do a setup with the speakers behind the screen, I think that's the way to go, but it does require building a false wall or placing the screen on a stand. If the plan is just to hang the screen on the wall, then the Carada is the highest value choice.

Jon

Steve was referring to the projection screen - as in, you can get a screen from Da-Lite or Carada that will give about 95% the performance of a Stewart screen, but for less $1000 instead of $3000+. He wasn't talking about getting 95% the performance of a Kuro plasma with a sub-$1000 projector.




My bad, and sorry to you Steve. I misunderstood your post.

To be honest I don't think there is a digital front projector out there that could match the Black level or real world contrast ratio of a Kuro (even on a high end screen) .

--- Jason

I suggested the DIY with silver light fusion paint because it does the best job of simulating the plasma's inherent strenghs.

I would certainly pay say Mississippi Man et al to make me one of those screens before I spent 4k on a pre-fab screen. The downside is the screen might weigh as much as a plasma if the mirror and wood used are near normal weight for the size discussed.

If the 60" screen of the Kuro doesn't feel like a major limitation than that makes a lot of sense.

That is a serious premium of price per inch.

When I first started doing research into building out my home theater, I immediately (and subconsciously) ruled out projectors as being too expensive/high end, and instead focused on the plasma vs. LCD debate. After doing some research there, I found I liked the 60" Pioneer Elite Kuro Pro150-FD, which runs around $6000-$7000. I was having some issues with wall space, and it suddenly occurred to me to give projectors a closer look.

On another forum discussion, someone recommended a good Stewart screen, which would probably run about $4000. This would leave me with about $2000-3000 for the projector itself to stay within the same budget.

My question is: would a projector in the $2000-3000 be able to match (or beat?) the picture quality of the Pioneer Elite Kuro?

A follow up question to that is, if there are such projectors, why would anyone buy a Pioneer Elite (or any Plasma/LCD for that matter)? Are there any obvious advantages/disadvantages that I'm not seeing?

Why not have the best of both worlds? There is no reason you have to settle for one or the other. For much less, you can do both. Here is what we are doing, see if it makes sense for you:

The top-rated Panasonic TH-50PZ700U 50" 1080p Plasma HDTV is now selling for around $2,200. The crystal clear (and well reviewed) 1080p Mitsubishi HC4900 projector is currently a steal and can be had for under $1,500. That leaves you around $2,300-3,300 for a nice big screen.

We opted to go for a 90" diagonal Da-lite Deluxe Insta-Theater (around $400) with the "Wide Power" screen (similar to High Power) in that it is a high gain screen which helps control ambient light at night, as well as more controlled light reflection for day-time viewing. It's also a floor pull-up screen so it rolls down into a black 4" x 4" case that blends in well with the black TV and all the black audio/video gear. Since our projector is table mounted, and the screen requires no mounting, there are no additional installation costs. The picture from the Mits projector and high gain white screen is incredible, and IMO is comparable to any plasma. Our total investment for screen, projector, and TV= $4,100 (if you want a ceiling mounted projector, this screen may not work as well as the High Power, and you need to add in the eye-opening costs for ceiling mounting a projector).

For full-time regular TV watching the plasma simply can't be beat (they also make a 42" for almost half the price). For those times when you want a real home theater experience for watching a movie or the big game, just flip on the projector and pull-up (or pull-down) your big screen. Why not have it all.:cool:

The short answer is NO!!

A very good friend of mine has that same TV and got it ISF'd.

There is no comparison in regards to the contrast ratio that that TV can achieve vs. any projector in the 3k range.

regardless, my entire PJ setup cost me less than 7k (the cost of the TV) and I have a screen that is twice as big.

The question is can you live with the tradeoffs? I can becuase my screen size is rediculous.

I wouldn't blow all your money just yet. Money is hard to come by, so save it while you can!

As of today I would purchase the following:

1. A Mitusbihi HD4900
2. Da Lite High Power Screen (I don't care if you want to compare Stewart, DIY, or whatever, this is the screen to have - just nudge on over to the screen forums)

All that can be had for far less than 2500.


Now you have to ask yourself a few question-
How big?
and
What can I accomodate?


I would suggest going the 2.35:1 route as opposed to 16:9 - so buy a 2.35 screen (someone should agree with me here).


Zoom manually more or less. And here's a kicker...


BUY A PLASMA! Yes I said it, buy a Plasma AND a Projector. What a concept. Good luck, any more questions - we're here.

I've experienced two CRT front projectors at some upscale HT get togethers, and two more DIY orientated HTs with Sanyo Z5 front projectors (one of which I calibrated), and none of the four are really up in the same league of a good flat pannel display, be that LCD or Plasma. Size is nice, but the 3D quality and "pop" of a flat pannel is more pleasing. Also, having to watch things in a completely blacked out environment isn't all that great and can eventually lead to eye strain.

You can also try the BenQ W5000. It has a 10,000 to 1 contrast ratio, 12-bit, 4:4:4 color space (1 billion colors unlike current 10-bit 4:2:2 PJ's) TI's dynamic black and a 2nd iris. Couple this PJ with a Da-Lite hi-power and you will have a 119" plasma.

BenQ W5000 = $2500 (already available in Canada at this price)
Da-Lite Hi-Power 16:9 perma-wall @ 119" diagonal = $550.

I currently run the BenQ W9000 and the 119" hi=power.

The BenQ's have power focus, power zoom, power lens shift and power iris. This allows you to close down the iris since the intial 200 hours of the bulb would melt your eyes with the hi-power.

Inch per inch, the plasma is superior, in my view. But not by a lot, and size matters. As someone else already said, a 106" screen will make that 60" Kuro seem positively puny. And as someone else also already said, the best bet is to get both--plasma for daytime viewing, projector for nighttime viewing. And you can do both within your budget. For example, you can get a $300 high power screen, a decent $2.7K projector, and a $3K 50" Kuro plasma--for the same price or less than that 60" kuro. Good luck!

This is probably subjective but I completely suspect a Sim2 projector with DIY screen(see the DIY section for how to get Silver Light Fusion built out) would give the Kuro a run for its money in raw picture quality and do so at twice the size.


Actually, if it's 60" vs 120" the 120" would be four times the size.

RS1 + 159" Hi Power screen! It looks as good inch for inch as most mid range plasmas, not likely to match Kurro but there's no comparison of the overall experience I don't care how wonderous the specs are on the 60". There's just something about watching 8foot tall football players running around your room. With a good HD signal it's pretty cool to look at the actual faces of the players when it's not a close up shot. Movies are also without compare. I would say for watching the news and other basic programming you might want a plasma. Not because it doesn't look great on the huge screen, but it just feels like cheating. Like taking vicodin for a paper cut.

Not quite the same high end comparison, but while my 42" Panasonic plasma has a better picture than my HD70...its better blacks do not compensate for being half the size.

Having an 80"+ image takes you to another level of immersion.

A media room is not a media room w/o a pj...imho. Many will disagree, but anything less than 80" is quite small assuming you don't have a small room(less than 10' long).

Even something cheaper like the Optoma HD80 and a decent fixed screen will give you an absolutely beautiful picture.

Also, what do you have/are you doing for audio? Don't skimp on audio...it's far more important than video imo.

should I go for a high power even though my room is 100% light controlled? (100", epson tw-2000

High power allows you to go with a larger screen size for the same lumen output, or a brighter image at the same size.

For home theater use you rarely need more than 1000 lumens

i prefer a bright picture but will the high gain ruin contrast ratios?

Thanks everyone for all the great insight! I was out all day and came back to a ton of great information! It definitely sounds like I should take the time to research this space and not just write it off as being prohibitively expensive. It sounds like there are tradeoffs, but a 100" screen definitely has its merits. :)

There were a couple common themes that came up a few times, so here's a bit more info on my situation:

1. Ambient light -- It will be possible to shut out all light coming into the room; however, that will not be the most common viewing scenario. It's a bit of an oddly shaped room (I can give dimensions and pictures if you think it would be helpful), but suffice it to say, it really should be 2 separate rooms and our computers/home office are on the other side of the room. Instead of a wall separating the 2 rooms, we have one ugly support pillar smack in the middle of the room. As a result, the majority of the time, the room will be lit on one side (the non-TV side) and dark (but not completely) on the TV side.

2. Speakers behind the screen -- That won't be an option, unfortunately. The screen would be pretty much right up against the wall with no room behind it. Someone also mentioned the importance of audio and what I was doing there. I agree with the importance, but I may have to start out with crappy speakers (some I have lying around the house from a home-theater-in-a-box that I got used for free) until I can afford the next step in the evolution in the theater. I will be getting a decent receiver, though, so once I do get decent speakers, I should be ready. They will, however, need to be in front of and to the side of the screen.

Incidentally, audio is the issue that led me to consider a PJ in the first place. With the 60" Kuro, I had no room on the wall for separate LCR channels, so I was debating between ceiling speakers or an LCR all-in-one bar. That's when someone suggested using the other wall and a projector.

3. Getting a flat screen and a PJ -- As much as I love the idea, the wife factor absolutely would not allow this, at least for the next 10 years. As soon as I mention that I'm willing to settle for a low cost PJ or a smaller plasma, I'll be told to pick one or the other, and going back to the high end will be off the table. :o As for taking vicodin for a paper cut, what's wrong with that? :cool:

4. Screen type -- One thing I forgot to mention is that the screen would have to be retractable, ideally electric. The wall I'm planning on using has windows (with blinds that can block out 99.9% of the light), so during the day the screen would have to be out of the way.

5. Screen size -- According to the ProjectorCentral.com calculator, given the place where I'm currently thinking of putting the PJ, and given most of the PJs mentioned here, the screen size would be somewhere around 92-96". It may be possible to move the projector back a foot or so, which would get me to 99".

6. Other info about primary applications, since I don't think I mentioned before -- Mostly DVDs and gaming. We are actually considering dropping DirecTV, since the only thing we watch on that that we can't get on Netflix (albeit a few months after the end of the seasion) is the Daily Show and Colbert Report. For gaming, I play Wii and X360. No PS3, and no desire to get one for gaming, but if it turns out that Blu Ray wins the format war, I may bite the bullet for that purpose.

7. Additional question on installation -- How much should I budget for installation? I'd need to put in 2 ceiling outlets -- 1 for the PJ and one for the screen plus mount the actual PJ and screen themselves. All of the components would be in a rack on the side of the room.

Thanks again everyone for all the great info and starting point for more research. I guess I'll need to postpone pulling the trigger for a couple more months, since I'll need time to review everything...

i prefer a bright picture but will the high gain ruin contrast ratios?

I think by bright you mean vivid. Everyone likes a vivid picture. Once calibrated your picture should be quite vivid...you don't need an excessive amount of lumens to have a beautiful vivid picture.

The Da Lite High Power screen is the perfect screen for most users.


As for the wife asking you to get either, you could do this: You can put the plasma in the wall and have the electric screen come down at night. It will all be elegant and sophisticated.


Most of us are willing to accept mid-upper range as opposed to bleeding high end. I own a HD1000u and a new Samsung Plasma. I prefer the HD1000u hands down. but it all depends on you:

Will you be watching movies or will you be watching TV?

Do you mind Black Bars on 16:9 or do you want to go all out with 2.35:1?

Thanks everyone for all the great insight! I was out all day and came back to a ton of great information! It definitely sounds like I should take the time to research this space and not just write it off as being prohibitively expensive. It sounds like there are tradeoffs, but a 100" screen definitely has its merits. :)

There were a couple common themes that came up a few times, so here's a bit more info on my situation:

1. Ambient light -- It will be possible to shut out all light coming into the room; however, that will not be the most common viewing scenario. It's a bit of an oddly shaped room (I can give dimensions and pictures if you think it would be helpful), but suffice it to say, it really should be 2 separate rooms and our computers/home office are on the other side of the room. Instead of a wall separating the 2 rooms, we have one ugly support pillar smack in the middle of the room. As a result, the majority of the time, the room will be lit on one side (the non-TV side) and dark (but not completely) on the TV side.
hmm...if you're gonna have some ambient light and don't want the picture to be too washed out you'll need a brighter than average pj.

Perhaps you could create that wall that should have been there to start with?


2. Speakers behind the screen -- That won't be an option, unfortunately. The screen would be pretty much right up against the wall with no room behind it. Someone also mentioned the importance of audio and what I was doing there. I agree with the importance, but I may have to start out with crappy speakers (some I have lying around the house from a home-theater-in-a-box that I got used for free) until I can afford the next step in the evolution in the theater. I will be getting a decent receiver, though, so once I do get decent speakers, I should be ready. They will, however, need to be in front of and to the side of the screen.
Exactly how far back are you sitting? If you plan to get an electric screen why not just leave some room behind it? btw, electric screens are quite pricey...



Incidentally, audio is the issue that led me to consider a PJ in the first place. With the 60" Kuro, I had no room on the wall for separate LCR channels, so I was debating between ceiling speakers or an LCR all-in-one bar. That's when someone suggested using the other wall and a projector.
Yeah you don't want a soundbar...they work...alright, but they're not that great.



3. Getting a flat screen and a PJ -- As much as I love the idea, the wife factor absolutely would not allow this, at least for the next 10 years. As soon as I mention that I'm willing to settle for a low cost PJ or a smaller plasma, I'll be told to pick one or the other, and going back to the high end will be off the table. :o As for taking vicodin for a paper cut, what's wrong with that? :cool:

4. Screen type -- One thing I forgot to mention is that the screen would have to be retractable, ideally electric. The wall I'm planning on using has windows (with blinds that can block out 99.9% of the light), so during the day the screen would have to be out of the way.
Make sure you get black out curtains...I've never seen blinds that actually block out ALL light.



5. Screen size -- According to the ProjectorCentral.com calculator, given the place where I'm currently thinking of putting the PJ, and given most of the PJs mentioned here, the screen size would be somewhere around 92-96". It may be possible to move the projector back a foot or so, which would get me to 99".

6. Other info about primary applications, since I don't think I mentioned before -- Mostly DVDs and gaming. We are actually considering dropping DirecTV, since the only thing we watch on that that we can't get on Netflix (albeit a few months after the end of the seasion) is the Daily Show and Colbert Report. For gaming, I play Wii and X360. No PS3, and no desire to get one for gaming, but if it turns out that Blu Ray wins the format war, I may bite the bullet for that purpose.

7. Additional question on installation -- How much should I budget for installation? I'd need to put in 2 ceiling outlets -- 1 for the PJ and one for the screen plus mount the actual PJ and screen themselves. All of the components would be in a rack on the side of the room.

Thanks again everyone for all the great info and starting point for more research. I guess I'll need to postpone pulling the trigger for a couple more months, since I'll need time to review everything...



Pics and dimensions of your place would be good. Even a drawing in paint would suffice...your setup is a lot more complex than it originally sounded.



What I would personally do...is this: Assuming a $6.5k budget...
$2k for a Mitsubishi HC4900
$2k for a fixed panel screen. I'ld basically cover up the window at all times...
$500 for a receiver, something like an Onkyo TX-SR705
$400 for an SVS PB-10NSD
$1600 for Axiom Audio speakers



Speaking from personal experience, I'ld trade a higher end pj for a lower end one and pour money into audio. Once you have a 100" image, it can get better sure...but the addition pq doesn't really immerse you into the games or movies much more.

Audio however WILL take you to the next level. Going from an HTIB to a $2k setup was the best thing I ever did for my setup, far more than going from a 32" LCD to a 100" pj

Not to mention pjs are evolving so so quickly. A year ago a 1080p pj was $5k. Now it can be had for less than $2k..that's sick. I would rather get a new $2k pj whenever the bulb dies every 3 years instead of stick with a $4k pj for 6 years


As for the wife, simply get everything first...then tell her :p

I drew up a rough layout of the room in MS Paint. It's not to scale, but it should give you an idea: 98401

Here are my room dimensions.

The room is very long from front to back: 25'3". As I mentioned above, there's a pillar dividing the room. Measuring from the middle of the pillar to the front wall (where there are windows), it is 12'4", so the back half of the room is about 12'11". Right where the pillar is, there is a ceiling vent that runs across the room from left to right. The floor-to-ceiling measurement is 7'10", but that vent takes up 9", leaving only 7'1". I was thinking of putting the projector either just in front of or just behind the vent, since the pillar would probably get in the way if I set the PJ any further back.

From left to right, the measurement is slightly different on the back (bookshelf) half of the room vs. the front (fireplace) half -- the front half is 17' from side to side, whereas on the back half it's 18'6". (Not to mention that between the front and back halves, there's a hallway at the back of the room that leads to the garage.)

Here are some pictures from different perspectives. I took these when I was thinking of putting the plasma where my current TV is now (on the left wall between the front and back half of the room, but a little more on the front half), so I may need to go home and take more pics to give everyone a better sense of the layout, especially that important front wall.

98395
98398
98396
98397

We'll be sitting approx. 12 feet from the screen with the PJ about the same distance as well.

We probably won't build a wall, since it is possible to block out all light if we want to. Also, my wife and I really like the idea that one of us can be doing e-mail/surfing the web while the other is watching TV and not be isolated from one another. Plus, putting up a wall is pricey. :)

Understood and agreed about the audio. The strategy I'm going with is to use the crappy ones we have now so I can go back and get the speakers I really want later. If I get mid-range speakers to start with, I'll never be able to go back and upgrade, since my wife will be convinced that the speakers are good enough.

The wife factor is strong with this one. :)

To give you an idea of how big of a screen you can go with using an RS1 and distance to screen, I have a 159" 16:9 and the projector lens sits approximately 17' from the screen. Seating distance is about 15 feet from the screen. With a high power screen the closer the projector is to eye level the better so the vent won't be a problem since you want it to hang down. Even shelf mounting it would be great. Mine sits about 5' 10" from ground to bottom of PJ.

I'd kind of ignore the calculator you quoted, it tends to be overly conservative about most things and pushes you to a much smaller screen that you'd really like best. I'd also simply go with a pull down high power, less than $700 for anything smaller than 159". The electric might be novel but also a much larger pain to install. Maybe I'll post some pictures of mine to give you an idea of how it works.

159"?! I never imagined I'd be able to get a screen anywhere near that big! There's not a smiley big enough to convey my excitement over that! :D Where could I calculate the realistic screen size I could get? Would I just get the projector and a screen and just blow up the image to the point where the PQ starts to drop?

If I can save a lot of money with a pull down instead of an electric, it may be worth considering, but already my wife (again, I know -- sigh) said that if I got a PJ she'd probably just be much less likely to watch TV when I'm not around, since it seems so complicated. I told her that it would all work off of 1 universal remote, so it would be just as easy as pressing the On button. If we can save $1000 by going manual, I think she could learn to pull the screen down herself. :)

dla26,

Before you jump headfirst into a full-time projector and screen as your only source for all your video activities, you need to consider why several of us mentioned getting both a TV and a projector...then you can decide if you want to explain it to your wife.

There is nothing like the immersion that comes from watching a big screen, that is pretty much a given. However, you need to be prepared for the fact that the bulb lifespan on these projectors is fairly short. The average bulb lasts anywhere from 2000-3000 hours. When viewed for 5 hours a day, that means you would be changing bulbs every 1-1.5 years, with bulb costs ranging between $300-$500. In comparison, the half-life for a plasma is currently somewhere between 60,000-100,000 hours. Projector bulbs also aren't really designed to be turned on/off like TVs. Every time you switch them on/off it shortens the lifespan.

You also mentioned that you want to have a computer area in the background where your wife works so you can still be close. Are you aware of the effect ambient light has on the projection image? Next time you are in a video store, notice how well the TVs look in bright lights, then go into where the projectors are displayed- the rooms are dark. Flip on a light to read the paper and your picture beautiful picture goes to hell. Open the curtains to see the daylight, same thing. Are you prepared to live with those limitations?

The last point is projector lifespan. Commercial projectors are built to run for extended periods. Home theater projectors won't last nearly as long. In fact, there is a thread running now where someone asked that very question, check out the responses. Are you prepared to buy another projector when it goes out? These things aren't built like the old tube TVs that run for 20 years.

While there certainly are people that use their projectors for every day use, they are willing to live with the drawbacks. The suggestion we made was to use a plasma for normal daytime and mindless evening viewing. Then use the projector for movies and more special events. That way you get the best of both worlds. I think you will find that the majority of forum members use their home theaters like this. If you can't convince your wife beforehand, perhaps buying a less expensive projector now, and only later "discovering" that due to the limitations you "really need to add a TV" may be a viable option. On the otherhand, if you find out you really can live with just a projector, then you have some room for an upgrade and pricing for better quality projectors will have dropped to a more reasonable level. Good luck!

...Where could I calculate the realistic screen size I could get? Would I just get the projector and a screen and just blow up the image to the point where the PQ starts to drop?...

Realistic in what sense? If you're using an RS1 and high power screen 159" is not a problem from 17 feet. The projector zoom function is used to match up your screen size relative to distance. 17' is about the minimum throw distance with an RS1 to fill 159". That ratio varies from projector model to model. As for the resolution, it's not remotely an issue at 15' seating distance. With 1080i or 1080p content it looks stunning even as close as 10 feet. You can't see any screen door effect until you're standing about 2 feet from the screen.

You might not be able to go with 159" because it might be too tall for your room but something in the 130's or 140's should be fine.

I still can't fathom both of these being an option for the same application.

A 60" Plasma against what? 100"+ projection? Either your building a theater or you not here.

This has been a very helpful thread for me, however my budget is way different.

I've got about $2500 to spend.

I have a Sony XBR970 34" in the living room that I've thought about replacing with a Pioneer Kuro 5080 50" Plasma. I've been lulled into the Kuro mentality, thinking that to get blacks like my XBR CRT, I need a Kuro. Besides, we kind of like watching TV up there next to the fireplace, etc.

The thing is though... I have a 26' x 26' basement with bar, pool table, furniture, etc., just ready to go for a theater room (specs: 13' throw, 100"+ screen size easily fits, seating distance @13'). It's light controlled, and was previously my theater room for my InFocus 4805 projector which died on me last year. Originally, I didn't think I could do a theater proper for $2500, because I need a new Projector, AVR, Speakers, and possibly a replacement screen, since my current screen is, in my best estimation, a piece o' junk. The screen I have now is "retractable" and it's wavy, not flat when open. I'd like to get a fixed-screen if possible.

So, this thread has me excited again as to building that theater, but I just don't know how to do it affordably.

If you had $2500 to spend on a theater, and you needed a Projector, Screen, and 5.1 speakers, what would you do? I could just relocate my Sony STR-DE987 AVR downstairs to the theater but it too, is not my favorite piece of equipment. That would leave just the Wii and the Sony TV upstairs for casual viewing and kids playing games. (The PS3 comes with me to the basement!)

I'm buying first week of February. Any thoughts and help would be greatly appreciated, and if this post is thread hijacking, just tell me, and I'll move along. :cool:

dla26,

Before you jump headfirst into a full-time projector and screen as your only source for all your video activities, you need to consider why several of us mentioned getting both a TV and a projector...then you can decide if you want to explain it to your wife.

[snip]

The average bulb lasts anywhere from 2000-3000 hours. When viewed for 5 hours a day, that means you would be changing bulbs every 1-1.5 years, with bulb costs ranging between $300-$500. In comparison, the half-life for a plasma is currently somewhere between 60,000-100,000 hours. Projector bulbs also aren't really designed to be turned on/off like TVs. Every time you switch them on/off it shortens the lifespan.

[snip]

The last point is projector lifespan. Commercial projectors are built to run for extended periods. Home theater projectors won't last nearly as long. In fact, there is a thread running now where someone asked that very question, check out the responses. Are you prepared to buy another projector when it goes out? These things aren't built like the old tube TVs that run for 20 years.


This is great info. When I started this thread, I really didn't know what the pros/cons were to PJs, since I hadn't really researched them. I had just assumed from the beginning that they were prohibitively expensive, but wanted to revisit it. When I found that I could probably get a decent PJ and and screen for about the same price as a 60" plasma, that led to my follow-up question of why anyone would choose a plasma? I know people buy plasmas all the time, so I wasn't sure if they, like me, simply hadn't considered a projector before, or there was some limitation to PJs that I wasn't taking into account. The bulb life, projector lifespan, and ambient light seem to be the primary drawbacks to a PJ, which definitely forces me to think long and hard about which way to go. I was starting to get the impression that if I were willing to settle for slightly lower PQ, I could get a 130" screen for the same price as a 60" plasma and everything else was pretty much equal.

BTW, in terms of ambient light, I know that people have Super Bowl parties, Wii parties, etc. with PJs all the time. What do people do? Crank up the brightness on those occasions? Play Wii in the dark? Settle for a washed out picture?

As for getting both, even as much as I understand that I may be able to get the best of both worlds by spending the same amount of money but just getting a slightly smaller plasma with slightly lower PQ and slightly lower-end PJ, I know that I absolutely will not be able to sell that to the boss. It may not be rational given that it's the same amount of money, but I'm a realist on this one.

I still can't fathom both of these being an option for the same application.

A 60" Plasma against what? 100"+ projection? Either your building a theater or you not here.

That's the decision process I'm going through now. Right now, all I have a is 32" or so tube TV that I've been using for the past 10 years. I got permission from my wife to get an HDTV (without defining what that meant) so now I'm trying to figure out what the options are. From pdxjazz's post, it's sounding more and more like they're very different applications. Plasma seems better for general all-around viewing b/c of the lifespan of the bulbs and a PJ sounds better for when you're ready to settle in for a movie experience and immerse completely in it. Does that sound about right?

Again, if I didn't say so at the beginning, apologies for being a PJ n00b. FWIW, although I'm still mostly a n00b for plasmas, I'm a lot better than I was 2 months ago. :)

Yep.. People will use thier projectors differently. But an HT projector is made to settle in and watch a movie for sure and with total light control too. :)

This has been a very helpful thread for me, however my budget is way different.

I've got about $2500 to spend.

I have a Sony XBR970 34" in the living room that I've thought about replacing with a Pioneer Kuro 5080 50" Plasma. I've been lulled into the Kuro mentality, thinking that to get blacks like my XBR CRT, I need a Kuro. Besides, we kind of like watching TV up there next to the fireplace, etc.

The thing is though... I have a 26' x 26' basement with bar, pool table, furniture, etc., just ready to go for a theater room (specs: 13' throw, 100"+ screen size easily fits, seating distance @13'). It's light controlled, and was previously my theater room for my InFocus 4805 projector which died on me last year. Originally, I didn't think I could do a theater proper for $2500, because I need a new Projector, AVR, Speakers, and possibly a replacement screen, since my current screen is, in my best estimation, a piece o' junk. The screen I have now is "retractable" and it's wavy, not flat when open. I'd like to get a fixed-screen if possible.

So, this thread has me excited again as to building that theater, but I just don't know how to do it affordably.

If you had $2500 to spend on a theater, and you needed a Projector, Screen, and 5.1 speakers, what would you do? I could just relocate my Sony STR-DE987 AVR downstairs to the theater but it too, is not my favorite piece of equipment. That would leave just the Wii and the Sony TV upstairs for casual viewing and kids playing games. (The PS3 comes with me to the basement!)

I'm buying first week of February. Any thoughts and help would be greatly appreciated, and if this post is thread hijacking, just tell me, and I'll move along. :cool:

No question I would opt for the Mitsubishi HC4900. I have one myself and they are as good as their reviews. Priced under $1,500 until the end of January (rebate ends) That leaves you with $1,000 for screen and sound. I can't comment on the screen other than to say I would stick to a white screen with some higher gain (I have 2.2 gain) as the color accuracy on this projector is so good you don't want to screw around with it, and the higher gain will help with your light issues when you have the bar open... It's also 1080p so it will be native to your 1080p B-R or HD DVD player when you eventually decide to buy one.

As for the sound system, I know there are people that like to spend allot of money on those components. I'm not one of them. I have a very high end system for listening to music, and a fairly inexpensive system for 5.1 surround sound with my TV and projector. You can always upgrade the sound system later if you feel the need, but gettting the picture right is the most important. Spend whatever you have left after you bought your screen, and remember you can always buy used sound equipment.

First - I have very limited experience with FP, some with plasma, a lot with crt/rptv, and crt.

But, I have researched various options to death for the better part of every day for a year (I have a cushy job).

My conclusion - 2 tvs, one crt and one FP. Plasmas... no offence but I don't get the whole plasma/flat panel craze. To me current flat panel technology is all about convenience, and the chic-ness of thin. Somewhere along the line flat panels got confused with superior PQ but I realized it was mostly marketing and herd mentality. They've gotten cheaper but they still ain't cheap, they can still suffer from burn-in (play games at all?), use a lot of power, suffer from dead pixels, they buzz, necessitate buying extra warranties, they require mounting or purchase of extra furniture... and mostly importantly they just don't look very good, certainly not good enough for me to outweigh their drawbacks. How many videophiles are all about flat panels? Yes, the Kuro would seem to address most of these concerns but after reading the thousands of positive posts and reviews of them I saw one in person (albeit briefly) and was totally under-whelmed. I was expecting to watch a 50 inch film projector from all I had read but what I saw was a picture that finally came close to 100 year old crt technology. For my hard earned money I cannot beat my 32 inch sony flat crt for 150 bucks off craigslist that I can watch my daily 10 hours of tv on. If you are sold on the thin-ness, convenience, or ability to take advantage of the handful of hdtv channels then go with a good plasma for tv viewing and good FP set-up for just movies. Shouldn’t have to spend more then 6k.

Me?..., in a few months I'm going with a Sanyo Z2000, and used Stewart or Da-Lite screen for about 4k plus my good ole tube. With the dough I save I'm gonna get some theatre seating, upgrade my audio with amps and tower speakers-total about 10k... after all you can't have a big screen w/o big sound!

They've gotten cheaper but they still ain't cheap, they can still suffer from burn-in (play games at all?), use a lot of power, suffer from dead pixels, they buzz, necessitate buying extra warranties, they require mounting or purchase of extra furniture... and mostly importantly they just don't look very good, certainly not good enough for me to outweigh their drawbacks. How many videophiles are all about flat panels? Yes, the Kuro would seem to address most of these concerns but after reading the thousands of positive posts and reviews of them I saw one in person (albeit briefly) and was totally under-whelmed. I was expecting to watch a 50 inch film projector from all I had read but what I saw was a picture that finally came close to 100 year old crt technology. For my hard earned money I cannot beat my 32 inch sony flat crt for 150 bucks off craigslist that I can watch my daily 10 hours of tv on.

After having extensive experience with the new kuros, and reading the numbers on it, i am nothing but impressed. as far as flat panels go, it is -the- best picture you can get by a very large margin. as home theater mag said (not that i use them as my definitive source...) "Even the vaunted CRT would find it difficult to beat this beast, as CRT's had notoriously bad ANSI contrast measurements (although, admittedly, the best had an immeasurably low black level)." The black measurement is impressive; 0.004 foot-lamberts. full on/full off contrast is 4,020:1, ANSI contrast is 3239:1.... really impressive numbers. these are for the Elite kuro, FWIW. Last year, the elite had a black level of .032 ft-L and this year .004 ft-L... Getting close! If you are getting a flat panel, and have the money to spend, the Elite Kuros are without a doubt, bar none, unquestionably the way to go. with the ISFccc, calibration can be done quite precisely as well. burn-in is negligible with these units (coming from a gamer).

with that being said, the outright immersion a 90"+ screen will give you cant be compared to anything. the price on the elite kuros is high too, you technically get what you pay for in relative terms (compared to other flat panels) but for setting up a home theater, i would use nothing but a projector. the drawbacks have been outlined, and for many people (myself included) the benefits far, far outweigh them. i would invest the money into a projector, screen, and a good receiver/amp setup (however you want to do it). Speakers can be done at a later date if you have some already, and you can make some as well, even with kits bought from partsexpress, madisound, etc.

The picture will not compare, quality-wise, period.. not until you get into some pretty high prices. but PQ isnt the be-all-end-all. The outright EXPERIENCE the projector can give you is incomparable, especially with gaming (imo). the picture will be excellent, given your budget, not as good as the Elite Kuro, but SO much more immersive.

My advice; just getting a tv for general watching? go with the plasma. getting a unit for immersion, "wow" factor, serious watching/gaming? dont hesitate to get the projector.

They've gotten cheaper but they still ain't cheap, they can still suffer from burn-in (play games at all?), use a lot of power, suffer from dead pixels, they buzz, necessitate buying extra warranties, they require mounting or purchase of extra furniture... and mostly importantly they just don't look very good, certainly not good enough for me to outweigh their drawbacks. How many videophiles are all about flat panels? Yes, the Kuro would seem to address most of these concerns but after reading the thousands of positive posts and reviews of them I saw one in person (albeit briefly) and was totally under-whelmed. I was expecting to watch a 50 inch film projector from all I had read but what I saw was a picture that finally came close to 100 year old crt technology. For my hard earned money I cannot beat my 32 inch sony flat crt for 150 bucks off craigslist that I can watch my daily 10 hours of tv on.

Flat panels still havent equaled the black levels of CRT, but they have other benefits... either way, after having extensive experience with the new kuros, and reading the numbers on it, i am nothing but impressed. as far as flat panels go, it is -the- best picture you can get by a very large margin. as home theater mag said (not that i use them as my definitive source...) "Even the vaunted CRT would find it difficult to beat this beast, as CRT's had notoriously bad ANSI contrast measurements (although, admittedly, the best had an immeasurably low black level)." The black measurement is impressive; 0.004 foot-lamberts. full on/full off contrast is 4,020:1, ANSI contrast is 3239:1.... really impressive numbers. these are for the Elite kuro, FWIW. Last year, the elite had a black level of .032 ft-L and this year .004 ft-L... Getting close! If you are getting a flat panel, and have the money to spend, the Elite Kuros are without a doubt, bar none, unquestionably the way to go. with the ISFccc, calibration can be done quite precisely as well. burn-in is negligible with these units (coming from a gamer).

with that being said, the outright immersion a 90"+ screen will give you cant be compared to anything. the price on the elite kuros is high too, you technically get what you pay for in relative terms (compared to other flat panels) but for setting up a home theater, i would use nothing but a projector. the drawbacks have been outlined, and for many people (myself included) the benefits far, far outweigh them. i would invest the money into a projector, screen, and a good receiver/amp setup (however you want to do it). Speakers can be done at a later date if you have some already, and you can make some as well, even with kits bought from partsexpress, madisound, etc.

The picture will not compare, quality-wise, period.. not until you get into some pretty high prices. but PQ isnt the be-all-end-all. The outright EXPERIENCE the projector can give you is incomparable, especially with gaming (imo). the picture will be excellent, given your budget, not as good as the Elite Kuro, but SO much more immersive.

My advice; just getting a tv for general watching? go with the plasma. getting a unit for immersion, "wow" factor, serious watching/gaming? dont hesitate to get the projector.

dla26, is there some reason why you can't continue to use your 32" tube TV? Early on you gave us the impression it was either a TV or a projector, and only later mentioned you are replacing a TV (we assumed you didn't have one). Since you already have a fairly good sized TV, and assuming it still works, then adding a projector makes allot of sense. Your tube TV will come in handy for overcoming some of the drawbacks of a full-time projector and should not be an issue with your wife as you're just buying the projector....and screen....and mounting hardware.....and installation....and cables....and...

Now, if your wife won't allow you to keep the older TV AND add the projector, then perhaps it's time you consider shopping around for some larger gonads.

That's what we do in my house, 32" Sony Trinitron CRT for casual viewing, news, and background noise while the PJ is used for first run tv episodes and movies.

Sorry for not following up on this thread. I got insanely busy, and didn't have much time to check in much. But I'm back now!

dla26, is there some reason why you can't continue to use your 32" tube TV? Early on you gave us the impression it was either a TV or a projector, and only later mentioned you are replacing a TV (we assumed you didn't have one). Since you already have a fairly good sized TV, and assuming it still works, then adding a projector makes allot of sense. Your tube TV will come in handy for overcoming some of the drawbacks of a full-time projector and should not be an issue with your wife as you're just buying the projector....and screen....and mounting hardware.....and installation....and cables....and...

That's a really good point. I actually should be able to do something like that. Since I'm planning on moving the equipment to a closet on the right side of the room, I think I would only need to run a component cable + S-video from my receiver to my TV, and the rest of the TV cabinet could be empty, and it'd still work.

By the way, you mentioned cables, and installation, and mounting hardware, etc. -- How much should I budget for that stuff?

Now, if your wife won't allow you to keep the older TV AND add the projector, then perhaps it's time you consider shopping around for some larger gonads.

Ah. So true... But let he who really wears the pants in his own home cast the first stone. :o I'm sure we could have an entire thread just about that sociological issue! :)

In answer to your original question IMHO no projector can equal the black level or quality of the Kuro image.

However, it is also my opinion that 60" is NOT Home Theater... it is just a really nice TV set.

Home Theater is re-creating the theater experience ... vast huge display, and huge sound; but in an environment where you can pause the show for a "potty break" (great for WAF) and do not have to be bothered by any of the "rude" folks that seem to attend the movies these days.

Personally since setting up my first projector I have not returned to the local multi-plex. I wait for the shows that I really want to see (after being able to get some reasonable viewer response and reviews) and watch them at home.

But that is just me....... YMMV

I'm in exactly the same situation. I have money set aside for a 6010, got clearance from the wife, the old tv is even sold.

I auditioned a ae2000 for a week but it didnt come close to my expectations. The problem was not with the pj, but with the room.
I have light control, I can make the room completely dark, but my problem is the white walls.

The reflections blew out the dark areas in certain mixed scenes and washed out the picture. I discussed this problem with David at carada and he explained nothing will really solve my problems, short of a limited viewing cone screen and careful pj placement. Well the firehawk blows out the budget so there we are.

I'm afraid at this budget and my room constraints, the pj solution is out of my reach. I did toy around with getting a 4900 and a 5080 pio, but sacrificing on both fronts has me very hesitant...

Without already having a PJ in the house, how did you audition the ae2000? What did you do for a screen? I'd love the opportunity to audition in my home before I buy, but I'd have to put in a screen just to test a projector. I have a big room where I can shut out all light, but I also have white walls.

I bought it from projector people. Felt really bad about returning it, the pj was great. Too good in fact, I knew i wasnt getting all the performance from it with my room situation. Another plug for pp, they really are a class act operation, if i get anything I will go through them.

I was projecting onto an elite electric100h retractable screen, got it cheap. for about 200 with shipping...

I really really really want a front pj system still. I borrowed my friend mits 1500 to play around with and I do like the huge screen.

I'm going to try and fanagle the 6010 and the 4900, but its going to be a tough sell to the wife.

Without already having a PJ in the house, how did you audition the ae2000? What did you do for a screen? I'd love the opportunity to audition in my home before I buy, but I'd have to put in a screen just to test a projector. I have a big room where I can shut out all light, but I also have white walls.

I too have light walls (beige), white ceiling, white trim, and beige carpet. I chose the da-lite higher gain 2.2 gain screen because I have those light issues. My screen is the Wide Power in a 90" diagonal size, as I wanted a portable pull-up screen so it would be out of the way. My wife would not go for ceiling mounted screen, so that was out of the question....ah yes most of us have wife issues as well.;) Anyway, there is allot of AVS forum members buying the similar da-lite High Power screen as it is even better for ambient light. The cone effect on both sends most of the available light back to the projector instead of out to the walls, floor, and ceiling. The higher gain also allows you to run the majority of the projectors in low power mode, thus $aving bulb life. I wouldn't worry too much about the moving out of the cone, as you will still have a brighter screen at side viewing than a matte white screen. The Wide Power does give you a much wider cone (hence the name) and in the top of the line Deluxe Insta Theater it only cost me around $400. Both are white screens so color shifting and accuracy is not a problem.

The downside of either screen is they are retro-reflective so the projector should be either table mounted, or even better- shelf mounted. With mine table mounted, I have NO issues with light hitting the screen unless of course I turn on a light in front of the screen, and that would effect any projection screen. I have the screen paired with the Mit HC4900, and the sharpness and color are above projectors costing $6,000. It's the quietest projector out there so no problem mounting it close to where you are sitting (unlike allot of them). I know some are concerned about the black levels, and while not class leading, they are still pretty good (see reviews on projectorcentral.com and projectorreviews.com). You can always buy the projector if it interests you, test it for up to 4 hours, then send it back for only the cost of return shipping charge if you don't like it. That's a easy way to test it out, and certainly much better to spend less if you can. You can always hang up a white sheet to get a basic idea of what the projector (or any projector) can do in your room, but of course it won't have the gain properties of the two I mentioned.

So guys, you can have a great home theater without the remodeling of your home. It just takes the right screen and projector combo.:cool:

By the way, I'm not trying to talk anyone into the Mits HC4900, just pointing out that you can get into a really nice home theater projector for a very reasonable price. If you still feel something is lacking after giving it a chance, you can certainly spend more and buy what looks right for you. The Mits HC6000 or JVC RS-1 (or RS-2) would be very nice upgrades, and thus much more costly alternatives.

The downside of either screen is they are retro-reflective so the projector should be either table mounted, or even better- shelf mounted.

Thanks, pdxjazz. These are great recommendations. One noob question - what does retro-reflective mean? Ceiling mounting the PJ is my only option.

Thanks, pdxjazz. These are great recommendations. One noob question - what does retro-reflective mean? Ceiling mounting the PJ is my only option.

It reflects light back to the source. Thus the projector light bounces back to the projector (and light from walls back towards the walls), so you need it near eye level. Angular reflective screens bounce the light away at the same angle it strikes the screen. The latter is typically used for ceiling mounted projectors.

I'm not sure if it would work in your room, but you might see if you could put a long drop tube down from the ceiling just in front of that pillar that divides the room. Buy or paint the drop tube to match the pillar color so it blends in.

The other option if you must ceiling mount the projector and don't want the long drop tube is a gray screen as they help absorb ambient light. Stewart Filmscreen makes a very good one (Firehawk) although they are very expensive. It is said to be ideal for ceiling mounting, as it is angular reflective but also has some gain properties so the combination should work very well for you.

Having both, they're mostly for different applications.

Plasmas excel in daytime, practical TV viewing.
Projectors excel in bringing the "larger than life" Theater or big games into our homes.
Crisscrossing the applications will pose problems.
Projectors in daytime/lights on suffer with washed out images, and plasmas in Theaters won't "measure up" for the big experience.

Given the same situation and budget, I would opt for the plasma and pj combo. I currently have a plasma and pj for far less than your budget.

As most have mentioned, the plasma is perfect for day time and the pj cant be beat for the home theater/sports/gaming events.

I do disagree about some of the comparisions made about the Kuro vs pj. The Kuro is far and away the best flat panel (LCD or Plasma) and is the best "TV." However, the RS1 can easily beat the Kuro in black level with the same white level on a 106" screen(unity gain screen and peak contrast numbers).

Point is this: don't write off a mid level pj without thoroughly researching.

I am a front projector purest but ...

The RS1 cannot match the black level of the Kuro even though RS1 marketing would have you believe it can . I have yet to see or hear of an ISF'd/D65 consumer front projector that can do a 'real world' black level of 0.01ftl ( unless it's turned off ;) ) .

That said I would still pick a solid front projector over a Kuro any day .

-- Jason

I am a front projector purest but ...

The RS1 cannot match the black level of the Kuro even though RS1 marketing would have you believe it can . I have yet to see or hear of an ISF'd/D65 consumer front projector that can do a 'real world' black level of 0.01ftl ( unless it's turned off ;) ) .

That said I would still pick a solid front projector over a Kuro any day .

-- Jason

Jason,

That would only require a 1500:1 on/off contrast ratio when you target 15 fL maximum light output. A 0.01 fL black level is easily within the capability of many consumer front projectors.

Jason,

That would only require a 1500:1 on/off contrast ratio when you target 15 fL maximum light output. A 0.01 fL black level is easily within the capability of many consumer front projectors.

Yes I understand that , and we can play the numbers out even further if doing direct comparisons but I have yet to see any front projector set-up that can match a Kuro's black level (and I have seen many) . Now maybe in a perfect environment there are a few exceptions but that perfect 'bat cave' is very uncommon (even here at AVS) . I have seen the RS1 in a dedicated room and I know what my eyes tell me in that it does not match the perceived black level of the Kuro (regardless of what the math dictates) . Heck the RS1 didn't even match the black level of the Samsung 71 series LCD (at least not to my very critical eyes that have been watching ISF'd displays for about 5 years and previously owned CRT front projectors) .

Not trying to debate your point here either just stating that there is a real world difference that our eyes can certainly see ;) .

And again with that said I'll be sticking to the real BIG screen experience :D .

Best Wishes ,
-- Jason

Jason,

What you are seeing is that the perceived black level is lower with the Kuro if you use it in a room with a little light. The room light fools the eye that the blacks are lower. I guarantee you that a properly setup quality front projector today will have measurably lower black level than the Kuro. However, light in a room with a front projector will ruin the blacks unlike a plasma where it will look better. A good projector today will definitely be blacker if the room is a bat cave.

I know that I have seen them in my work.

Actually, if it's 60" vs 120" the 120" would be four times the size.

To visualize, go here:

http://www.displaywars.com/60-inch-16x9-vs-120-inch-16x9


You will see, there is absolutely no comparison.