They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.

Wow, thanks for that very thoughtful intelligent post. I would also like to point out that some BD players will not be able to "evolve" completely so have fun when that happens.

so how is it that 1 piece of hardware that only plays 1 type of high def content can evolve while another cannot?

just wow.

They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.

WTF are you talking about? Why couldn't HD DVD pull the rug out from the user baser and change the specs every 6 months like Blu-ray does?? Just because Tosh didn't do it, doesn't mean that the profiles couldn't be changed. They just CHOSE not to do that to their customers.

They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.

Wow this is a geat idea! :rolleyes: I can imagine the back of a blu-ray now:

Fully 1.0 and 1.1 compliant
Not fully compliant with 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, etc.
May be compliant with 9.0

exactly right the original poster is, but only we should be paying 3000$ for each player, with the possibility to pay even more extra cash from profile 5.0 onward.:rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::p:p:p

God I dislike Blu-Ray, it seems like once day they will compliant, just like I will be compliant to purchasing a Blu-Ray player!

I'm going to enjoy watchingmovies in BD25/mpeg2 on profile 1.1 compliant players!
Trying to justify my purchase by watching the bitrate counter! :rolleyes:

LOL.... Blu-Ray profiles suck. All they are for is inclusion of all the things that HD-DVD was doing right and Blu-Ray had to add to make sure they didn't have the inferior product. It's also a great way to make you keep having to go back to the store and buy the latest version hardware to watch the latest version software. Great way to keep sucker consumers buying, and buying, and buying.

It's called... being behind and trying to catch up. Maybe someday they will get Java to work as well as HDi does for HDM.

Sorry bub, but standardization from the start is the way to go. It's funny, HD-DVD may lose the war... but it's not only HD-DVD owners who will have expensive obsolete players.

am I the only one who remembers the expensive dvd players of ten years ago, with almost no features?

am I the only one who remembers the expensive dvd players of ten years ago, with almost no features?

That isn't what we are talking about. We are talking about the discs themselves doing everything the discs can do. Movie, audio, features. There are plenty of options that can be used for pricing purposes without confusing the consumer. I suspect Warner wanted all 2.0 players anyway, and the BDA will be headed that way.

really, it seems like most folks kept referring to players...

Am I just crazy? The profiles are a bad thing. We're not talking about evolution here. The market place is new. Blu Ray will have to be 2.0 (final spec) before it can do everything that HD DVD can do. How many 2.0 players are available at B&Ms for J6Ps? Zero.

Again, how is that good? I buy a $400 1.0 player now, but when I want to access 1.1 or 2.0 content, there's another $500-whatever a 2.0 player is, and I'm stuck with a 1.0 player. Yeah...profiles are good for the consumer..good to bleed them dry as they upgrade.

Don't call me a BR hater, I've been planning to get a PS3 for my birthday for the past year (saving those pennies) because I've wanted to go purple. But then again, no one will read this part =)

Am I just crazy? The profiles are a bad thing. We're not talking about evolution here. The market place is new. Blu Ray will have to be 2.0 (final spec) before it can do everything that HD DVD can do. How many 2.0 players are available at B&Ms for J6Ps? Zero.

Again, how is that good? I buy a $400 1.0 player now, but when I want to access 1.1 or 2.0 content, there's another $500-whatever a 2.0 player is, and I'm stuck with a 1.0 player. Yeah...profiles are good for the consumer..good to bleed them dry as they upgrade.

Don't call me a BR hater, I've been planning to get a PS3 for my birthday for the past year (saving those pennies) because I've wanted to go purple. But then again, no one will read this part =)Thank you. I think you summed it up quite well. :)

They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.
Wrong, I see you don't understand profiles.
HD DVD is already fully evolved. And with that evolution they can add whatever else they feel fit to add via firmware update to make it work.

Blu-Ray is missing hardware? You can't get a firmware update to make a feature that is included in a disc work with the missing hardware?
With a finished product i.e.: HD DVD, it only becomes better & better with every firmware update. You are guaranteed that anything with the HD DVD logo on it will be 100% fully compatible.

So the BDA want you to buy a P1 Blu-Ray player now and buy another P1.1 Blu-Ray player later, than another P2.0 Blu-Ray player? That’s logic for you. While you are wasting your money on a profile plagued format I will buy one HD DVD player that will be 100% compatible for many years to come.
I am not trying to knock you, but giving you the obvious example in why you are wrong.

I can really see the comparison between HD-DVD and Betamax in the future.

HD-DVD is superior in every way except capacity. Almost identical to Betamax and VHS.

The profile set of BD would work well if it was treated properly.

It should have been treated as a tier level:

Tier 1: 1.0
Tier 2: 1.1
Tier 3: 2.0

Just like the PC market where you enjoy a "better experience" with gaming if you have a DX10 card and EAX sound... any computer can play the game.. but the better your hardware (i.e. more money you've spent on it) the better the experience you receive.

Instead... they've got this Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows XP thing going on.

The profile set of BD would work well if it was treated properly.

It should have been treated as a tier level:

Tier 1: 1.0
Tier 2: 1.1
Tier 3: 2.0

Just like the PC market where you enjoy a "better experience" with gaming if you have a DX10 card and EAX sound... any computer can play the game.. but the better your hardware (i.e. more money you've spent on it) the better the experience you receive.

Instead... they've got this Windows 95, Windows 2000, Windows XP thing going on.I think you've just figured out the BD platform. Unfortunately, the BD programmers seem to be stuck back in the days of Windows 2.0. Syntax Error anyone?

what we now have is a cluster **** of profiles and none of them compare to first generation hd dvd players.

BDA needs to put this profile mess behidn them before they can continue foward. Few people are going to like the fact that their 1.0 or 1.1 players wont play 2.0 features and that their friends kid was able to buy the new disney princess line through the disc and they now have to go wait online at stores that are constantly sold out to try and find it for the kid because their player doesn't have that feature.

People are fooling themselves here if they don't think the general public will be furious when they attempt to access a BD-Live feature on a 1.0 or 1.1 player.

am I the only one who remembers the expensive dvd players of ten years ago, with almost no features?
The DVD standards have not changed. Adding optional or unrelated features doesn't mean the standard has changed.

They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.

That's an idiotic statement, Blayrre. I've worked peripherally with international standards for over 15 years and Blu-ray is not a standard in any way, shape or form. It's an industry consortium that has delayed the adoption of next generation DVD by a minimum of 3 years, maybe 5, in order to maximize profits and control. Profiles with optional elements create havoc amongst the end-users as they vainly try to figure out why some disk work fully, and others do not.

It's sad to see the Blu-ray cluster**** win out, but whatever. Experience has shown that corporate interests far exceed any benefits to the consumer. For my part, I'll just wait for a decent selection of hardware that can be upgraded to v2.0 before buying in.

At least we can all be thankful that this whole mess is for a luxury item and nothing truly important.

People are fooling themselves here if they don't think the general public will be furious when they attempt to access a BD-Live feature on a 1.0 or 1.1 player.

How would they "attempt" to do this. Their player won't be hooked up to the internet, and the menu won't present the option of accessing the internet. Furious? No, I doubt the vast majority will even know.

I think that mandatory minimum profile for Blu-ray player should be 1.0, not 1.1.
Most average consumer doesn't pay any attention to added profile 1.1 features like PiP, commentary, or interactive bonus features while watching Blu-ray movie. Do you?

PiP/commentary feature requires quite expensive media processor chip with two HD video/audio decoding capability. Manufactures should be allowed to use cheaper media processor with only one HD video decoding capability to make rock-bottom priced Blu-ray player model to compete effectively against regular DVD player. Cheaper media processor with single HD video decoder and less memory is essential ingredient to make cheaper Blu-ray player.

The prime enemy of Blu-ray player (and HD-DVD in this regards) is not HD-DVD ( or Blu-ray) for now. It is DVD player which is sold in 1/3-1/5 price of cheapest Blu-ray player. Lets the true price game begin!
.

BD profiles are great...for CE companies and studios. They force you to keep buying new equipment and new discs. Simple as that.

BD profiles are NOT great for consumers. Also simple as that.

There is NO single feature I cannot access with my first-gen Toshiba A1. Can owners of the first-gen BD equipment say the same? Nope. Boy, I'm glad the "best technology" (sarcasm) is claiming to have ended the format war.

The DVD standards have not changed. Adding optional or unrelated features doesn't mean the standard has changed.

Try taking an older dvd player and watching a burned movie or a disc from a video camera. They don't work. Dvd players have evolved over time just not to the extent of the current gen players.

Wow this is a geat idea! :rolleyes: I can imagine the back of a blu-ray now:

Fully 1.0 and 1.1 compliant
Not fully compliant with 2.0, 3.0, 4.0, 5.0, etc.
May be compliant with 9.0

Hahaha... that's hilarious...

It's interesting... the few Blu people at work that I've discussed formats with weren't aware that having an Ethernet connection was a required feature for HD-DVD. The one guy was actually telling me how novel it was that certain Blu players had network connections for advanced features...

They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.

I know it's early in the new year, but this has to be a contender for worst premise of the year. What are they teaching kids in school these days?

Wonder if this is a BDA trial balloon...

And maybe, just maybe Blayrre_D, Blu-Ray can evolve into Skynet and become self-aware with enough profile revisions.

Next we'll see, "Why Region Codes Are a Good Thing". :rolleyes:

Next we'll see, "Why Region Codes Are a Good Thing". :rolleyes:

"Why BD+ DRM is a fantastic invention that should be embraced with open arms and large smiles"

It's called... being behind and trying to catch up. Maybe someday they will get Java to work as well as HDi does for HDM.
Not likely - I'd wager it will be a PITA as long as they rely on it. It's never been anything but an employment vehicle for programmers - why would it change?

"Why BD+ DRM is a fantastic invention that should be embraced with open arms and large smiles"

LOL:D

They allow for the format to evolve and get better. One day, I hope there will be a BD Profile 3.0, 4.0, 5.0... etc.

The thing about HD-DVD is that it can't evolve, and science has already taught us about what happens to species that are unable to evolve. They go extinct.

Post bursting with knowledge and intelligence. Awesome. There you go, a regular Blu-Ray supporter with of course very valuable information.

A Profile structure is not a good thing for consumers bottom line. That's not an anti blu-ray stance.

You should not be asked to put down $300-$400 on a device that CEs know will not be able to take advantage of product entering the market today.

People say that the average consumer won't care about PiP, features and internet connections, but once they see a friend taking advantage of these things, watch out.

Not having a finished specification is bad for HDM.

A Profile structure is not a good thing for consumers bottom line. That's not an anti blu-ray stance.

You should not be asked to put down $300-$400 on a device that CEs know will not be able to take advantage of product entering the market today.

People say that the average consumer won't care about PiP, features and internet connections, but once they see a friend taking advantage of these things, watch out.

Not having a finished specification is bad for HDM.

Ditto. Some people enjoy (or are willing) to spend $400-$500 every year for a new video card to play the latest video games.

However, most "normal" people I know don't. They also don't enjoy having to look at the software requirements to see if the software will work on their computer. I highly doubt these people are going to want to look at the same thing on the back of BR cases, or be told they have to buy a new $400-$500 (or more likely $799) player every year in order to play the latest and greatest features.

IMO (worth 1.5 cents) Profiles are horrible and are only here because BR wasn't ready in the first place, even though I realize in order to compete they had to bring out their incomplete spec (and don't fault them for that as otherwise they would be DOA when they are finally ready to launch a completed spec).

It is evident from the BD player announcements that the BD CEM's are committed to the "stair step" approach of offerring their players with features. Unfortunately all that does is to create a market full of haves and have nots. Something the consumer does not appreciate at all.