Ignoring the whole Format A vs Format B.

I'm happy that the war may soon be over. I was not an early adopter so the news about Warner is a good thing for me.

If the war truly ends, I won't have to buy an expensive combo player or worse 2 players. I won't have to worry about whether the blue or red disc has better extras. I won't have to read twice as much news about virtually the same thing or 2 reviews of the same movie.

Maybe now we can "all just get along" and enjoy movies more :cool:

However, if you do disagree with my dream... (in other words you voted no) please feel free to explain.

Happy its over, I can now move on to more important things. :)

The format war has done nothing but having people like us choosing sides (or going neutral), or confusing the hell out of the general public.

I think that another thing that the HD DVD and Blu-Ray camps didn't take into account the fact that most people are happy watching SD DVDs and that while the difference between 480p and 1080p can be stunning, and visibly noticeable, most people don't have the equipment to take advantage of it, or don't want to spend the money on that equipment.

I'm actually looking forward to this so-called war ending. The only people it hurt were the consumers. If they could have just agreed to a single format, we would have had many more titles available, as the studios wouldn't be afraid of supporting a format that might lose.

I'm just sick of seeing the bitter supporters of the losing format lament it's demise. Either they are fans of HD and support HD however it is delivered, or they just go and stick to SD DVD titles.

The sooner we move on, the quicker we will start to see the studios truly embracing HD.

I am purple and have been enjoying the "war." I believe that competition has driven the price down and has helped improved the quality of the products. [That sounds like something from my Antitrust Law 1 lecture note.]

I am purple and have been enjoying the "war." I believe that competition has driven the price down and has helped improved the quality of the products. [That sounds like something from my Antitrust Law 1 lecture note.]

Indeed, but it has run its course and the harm outweighs the benefits at this point. I for one am glad that an end is clearly in sight, although there is no denying that the war itself likely led to a better ultimate end result. And I refer again to my first sentence.

Happy its over, YES.
Happy W.Bros chose to do this now and not before the holidays? No.

I'm just sick of seeing the bitter supporters of the losing format lament it's demise. Either they are fans of HD and support HD however it is delivered, or they just go and stick to SD DVD titles.

The sooner we move on, the quicker we will start to see the studios truly embracing HD.

Whoa there buddy. People have the right to spend their money on whatever they please. If you want to spend it on Blu-Ray, more power to you.

Yet if people don't want to spend it on Blu-Ray, but on something else instead (DVD, downloads, whatever) lets not preach to people how they spend their hard earned cash.

If people are movie fans, they can get those movies a bunch of different ways - BD is not the only option.

Perhaps people simply see BD as having the same inevitable fate that HD DVD did once HD downloads that everyone is talking about becomes a reality. By the time you get your entire collection converted to Blu-Ray, HD downloads, 3D optical disc, or some other crap comes out where the studios will want to milk you on the treadmill all over again. Therefore it may not seem a wise investment to some, seeing how their current investment resulted.

Yes.

Time to get back to equipment discussions between manufacturers NOT DIFFERENT FORMATS.

I'm ecstatic. With this whole war going on, it's like HDM didn't exist for me. Now it's finally been released, albeit in beta form.

I feel sorry for the HD-DVD fanatics, but they'll get over it. And it's not like they didn't enjoy the ride. It's a good HD format too.

Delighted. In the long term, it is good for everyone.

Yes. The format war as a source of player price drops is facetitious.

The PS3 instantly dropped the price of BD players. It took time for them to match it, but after it came out there was competition from the CE manufacturers to match it.

Then the PS3 was reduced to compete with the 360. That drop to $500 (and then $400) was matched by equivalent drops in the prices of CE devices.

BD player prices drop to compete amongst themselves. And the MSRP's of BD's were never higher than HD DVD in practical releases, not even at the beginning. And as with all things, prices are much better online than in B&M stores.

So all in all, the only thing the format war's done is keep a lot of people on the sidelines waiting and force me to buy an $800 XA2 back in Feb of this year in addition to the $600 PS3 I bought last November after having already bought a $500 A1 at launch. I've spent money into HD DVD that I could have spent toward movies had Toshiba not dragged Universal and now Paramount down the Red Path. And I had to spend for the XA2 (sadly before the large price drops) because the A1 skipped (a common problem back then), didn't seem to be on the road toward getting a firmware update (months late) to support the latest and greatest flipper combos that were flawed (Hollywoodland, Children of Men, The Good Shepherd, etc.), and because Toshiba didn't think the consumers needed 1080p for this high definition format except in the high end.

Yeah, the format war can't end soon enough.

Happy it's over, but worried about the peace, I got back on the horse and went DF, but BD has some serious peace-winning issues, the biggest is affordable hardware.

Yes, either red or blue...it doesn't matter. Now, I hope we can talk about movies than crying about the winner.

People talk about battle/war/blahblah and it's close to be over, and the losers become stupid and cried that they might have lost it. How pathetic. Those are the people I see at Las Vegas when they lose $1. LOL

Borderline giddy. Movie watching is one of my favortie hobbies. It is now getting better and better.

the effin:eek:' hdm and player makers dont deserve my $; i have an hd-a2 and some hdm but im gonna make the best of my sd dvds.

bring on the oppo 983!:D

Where is the option for "Kinda Sorta.."? I am kinda happy that the war is drawing to a close, but I am sorta worried about the future of HDM, whatwith the clumsy player profiles and high priced hardware of the heir apparent format.

Hence, I did not vote.

Indeed, but it has run its course and the harm outweighs the benefits at this point. I for one am glad that an end is clearly in sight, although there is no denying that the war itself likely led to a better ultimate end result. And I refer again to my first sentence.

Maybe it will be a good idea to keep HD-DVD around. Make Paramount, Universal and one other major studio neutral. HD-DVD will be a niche market by that scenario. However, there will be a check in place that BR won't be abusing their market doimance. E.g., by raising the prices of BR discs. I liked the war.

Where's the option for "Hell yes!"

Regardless of my preference for HD-DVD.. I think it is good that its over. I just wish a) Warner did the move before the holidays and b) since they didn't, they do the right thing and offer free exchanges on discs purchased in the last month or two over to BD.

Otherwise... even though it's not their fault per say... they could lose many devoted customers and further cripple their own BD sales by as much as 40%

Where is the option for "Kinda Sorta.."? I am kinda happy that the war is drawing to a close, but I am sorta worried about the future of HDM, whatwith the clumsy player profiles and high priced hardware of the heir apparent format.

These are the two issues which are absolutely certain to be solved with time. You've waited this long right?

I have to admit, I really wanted to buy HD movies. However, this "war" made it difficult to do so. I have a 360 but never considered a HDDVD addon. I have been planning to get a PS3 in March when schools done. I would not have bought any movies. If this settles it, good i will buy movies.

Man ... people who answer NO really might be delirious. Surely you don't think HD-DVD could have ever won? Or that HDM would have ever been fully adopted by the market at large (good for all of us) if there were two standards?

One format needed to happen.

EXTREMELY happy!!

I didn't care who the hell won, I just wanted to finally get to the point we have one format and things can start finally progressing toward better pricing and uniformity.

Man ... people who answer NO really might be delirious. Surely you don't think HD-DVD could have ever won? Or that HDM would have ever been fully adopted by the market at large (good for all of us) if there were two standards?

One format needed to happen.

+1

Man ... people who answer NO really might be delirious. Surely you don't think HD-DVD could have ever won? Or that HDM would have ever been fully adopted by the market at large (good for all of us) if there were two standards?

One format needed to happen.

I was hoping for a stalemate. Am I delirious? I believe in competition and prices have been good lately.

I was hoping for a stalemate. Am I delirious? I believe in competition and prices have been good lately.

I believe in competition too. Competition between manufacturers on a unified standard, at least.

DVD players are, what, $50 at Wal-mart these days? One standard and pricing fell quite low. Competition between RCA and Sony and Pioneer and Panasonic etc etc etc all brought pricing down and it will do the same with Blu-ray disc.

A statemate would mean that Blu-ray and HD-DVD would have forever remained in the niche. So single standard means no mass market.

So yes, a little bit delirious...

The good die young and the best of two formats overall (in potential of transitioning existing DVD lines to HD, pricing, PQ/AQ, consistent playback quality, etc.) was killed. So no, I'm not glad the war is over. In fact I really hope Toshiba's deafening silence at CES gives way to a massive countermove none of us expect or anticipate. I want the war to go on, it's the best thing that has happened to consumers of HDM. :(

These are the two issues which are absolutely certain to be solved with time. You've waited this long right?

If you think BD [or HD optical in general, for that matter] can take its sweet time and follow DVD's evolution curve, you are sadly mistaken. This is not DVD vs VHS landscape anymore.

Competition brought better features and lower prices to both camps. It looks like that time has ended, and we'll soon see the results. I would have liked the battle to continue, with more studios releasing on both formats.

Scott

I believe in competition too. Competition between manufacturers on a unified standard, at least.

DVD players are, what, $50 at Wal-mart these days? One standard and pricing fell quite low. Competition between RCA and Sony and Pioneer and Panasonic etc etc etc all brought pricing down and it will do the same with Blu-ray disc.

A statemate would mean that Blu-ray and HD-DVD would have forever remained in the niche. So single standard means no mass market.

So yes, a little bit delirious...

What is wrong with no mass market if the price structure, sales and release schedule remain like they were before Friday? The exclusive studios had direct investment in the formats and thus was forced to produce quality releases at reasonable prices. BR player manufacturers would have been forced to become more efficient and continue cutting prices to compete with Toshiba. Now, that check and balance is probably gone. We will have to wait to see what really is goning to happen. However, I feel that agressive price cutting is probably gone forever.

I started out favoring HD DVD, this this format war has dragged on long enough, that I'm happy to have any winner.

If you think BD [or HD optical in general, for that matter] can take its sweet time and follow DVD's evolution curve, you are sadly mistaken. This is not DVD vs VHS landscape anymore.

You're right. It's not. VHS to DVD was a far smaller quality jump (SD to better SD.) DVD to HDM is more comparable to black & white vs. color TVs.

HDM will be dominant, and it will be around for a long long time to come. Thanks to Warner. ;)

You're right. It's not. VHS to DVD was a far smaller quality jump (SD to better SD.) DVD to HDM is more comparable to black & white vs. color TVs.

HDM will be dominant, and it will be around for a long long time to come. Thanks to Warner. ;)

You've got to be kidding. I see a smiley, but I think it's placed at the end of the wrong paragraph.

It's the difference that the average user will be able to perceive that counts, not the difference you'd notice on the biggest of screens with front projectors. I am sure SACD and DVD-A versus MP3 taught us something.

Well, you make your own bed, I guess. By YOU, I mean HDM enthusiasts in general.

It's the difference that the average user will be able to perceive that counts, not the difference you'd notice on the biggest of screens with front projectors.
People said DVD would never fly with average consumers because they couldn't tell the difference in quality from VHS and they lost the ability to record onto tape.

People have HDTVs now. More and more they're demanding HD content.

I am sure SACD and DVD-A versus MP3 taught us something.

What are you trying to imply there?

Well, you make your own bed, I guess. By YOU, I mean HDM enthusiasts in general.

Yes. And the bed is finally comfy. Warner fluffed my pillows and tucked me in. :)

Zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz.....

I bought HD-DVD and lots of HD DVDs early on, and haven't bought a blu ray player yet.

Yet I've got a "spring in my step" from the news because I'm so bloody sick of the idiotic format war dragging down adoption of HDM...and being such a ridiculous nuisance to almost everyone.


Having to decide which format to buy and then having to passby all the movies in the other format that you can't watch. Or, alternately:

Having to spend money buying TWO damned players, one of each competing format, in order to play all the HDM.

Watching stores struggle with having to stock THREE formats (DVD/HD DVD/Blu Ray).

Reviewers having to provide TWO separate reviews for so many films released on both formats.

All the aggravating fanboyism and back and forth bickering taking up so much room on these forums.

It was just idiotic through and through, in every area the "war" touched. Now we can have some sanity....

You've got to be kidding. I see a smiley, but I think it's placed at the end of the wrong paragraph.

It's the difference that the average user will be able to perceive that counts, not the difference you'd notice on the biggest of screens with front projectors. I am sure SACD and DVD-A versus MP3 taught us something.



I agree...

Not to mention DVDs meant durability, no rewinding, chapter skipping, and physically took up less space in the shelf. The only major difference we are seeing the jump from SD-DVD to HDM is a picture quality difference.. which a lot of people won't care or won't see... DVD was an obvious jump in tech while HDM doesn't have that some wow factor of "Whoa.... it's just a disc".

I bought HD-DVD and lots of HD DVDs early on, and haven't bought a blu ray player yet.

Yet I've got a "spring in my step" from the news because I'm so bloody sick of the idiotic format war dragging down adoption of HDM...and being such a ridiculous nuisance to almost everyone.


Having to decide which format to buy and then having to passby all the movies in the other format that you can't watch. Or, alternately:

Having to spend money buying TWO damned players, one of each competing format, in order to play all the HDM.

Watching stores struggle with having to stock THREE formats (DVD/HD DVD/Blu Ray).

Reviewers having to provide TWO separate reviews for so many films released on both formats.

All the aggravating fanboyism and back and forth bickering taking up so much room on these forums.

It was just idiotic through and through, in every area the "war" touched. Now we can have some sanity....

Great post all around!

I'll be happy when all studios are releasing their titles for one or both formats. Until then, it's not much different than it has been from the beginning. Hopefully, one of those two scenarios will come to fruition soon.

i agree we will not see a night and day difference till all the studios release the current
catalog but i did notice more people browsing the blu-ray section at my local bestbuy
today.

Happy its over, I can now move on to more important things. :)
Hear freakin' hear

Looks like a majority of AVS users consider the war over, and are glad it is over.

Good to hear. Looks like mass adoption of Blu-Ray is next.

What is wrong with no mass market if the price structure, sales and release schedule remain like they were before Friday? The exclusive studios had direct investment in the formats and thus was forced to produce quality releases at reasonable prices. BR player manufacturers would have been forced to become more efficient and continue cutting prices to compete with Toshiba. Now, that check and balance is probably gone. We will have to wait to see what really is goning to happen. However, I feel that agressive price cutting is probably gone forever.
Just like aggressive price cutting was gone forever for VHS and DVD when they were the new to the market?

Yes, no malice intended toward HD-DVD owners, but I can't wait to hear the official 'death rattle', then I can buy BD player. Until then I live in fear that something crazy will pump some air back into the Format War.

I was hoping for 1 more year. I would of liked to see both sides duke it out until the next CES. One upping each other in features and pricing. I thought maybe 1 more year could of gotten both sides to lower royalties of the media. That way movie prices could come down with out the studios giving up high margins. This time around I think the studios/CEs/retailers will be much more protective of margins. Neither format or downloads are going to challenge DVD for many years if ever. Another year of bogos sale prices on players 10 free movies ect would of been nice. Now is the time every one will try and make some coin off the enthusist because the average joe won't be biting for a long time thanks to the media not being compatible with his existing players.

I'm an HD-DVD owner, but I won't be happy until the format war is actually over. Warner Bros doing this without some sort of warning was a dick move, especially after they said they were going to be making TotalHD discs.

Just like aggressive price cutting was gone forever for VHS and DVD when they were the new to the market?

Dude! You are crazy!!! Its not like I can go down to Wal-Mart and buy DVDs in some bin for $5 a pop!!!!!!!! Best Buy will never even sell a DVD player for $30 so prices will just stay high forever....

I love the "no more competition" argument. I also love the complaints about BD issues. I have not seen one in the 50 or so movies I have played on my 2 PS3s. Now my HK AVR is another matter...

I think some here at AVS buy into the scorched earth policy. If it cannot be HD DVD, then let it be nothing. Come to think of it, this would be good for Toshiba and their patent holdings...

I also blame Toshiba for some of the bad feelings on this board. They pushed the early adoption phase into an affordable level which caused many to buy in to a format squable that are not used to the risks of early adoption and, well, format squables. Thus leaving them in a bit of a quandry.

To those that are mad at Warner, when would have been a good time? I bet the only answer would be, right before you bought in. Are they supposed to say, "we are neutral unless we go BD in 2 months, hint, hint". They said they were going to choose sides at some point and they have a fiduciary responsibility to not make public statements about deals in progress. Stockholders hate that sort of thing and love to sue. If they had gone HD DVD, would you be ticked at them for betraying BD owners? They are in an unwinable position.

Quite frankly, those that cannot afford an extra $100 for a BD player are probably not really customers that Warner wants for a premium format. I do not think that studios really want $5 bargain bins for HD media. They are looking for some margin back in their margins.

Having said that, I would have bought into HD DVD if things had gone the other way. I would be purple today if their players performed a bit better and I may still if I see a great deal.

I'm extremely happy. I didn't care which way it went as long as it ended. Now I can focus my dollars on certain titles I may not have bought.

It's the difference that the average user will be able to perceive that counts, not the difference you'd notice on the biggest of screens with front projectors. I am sure SACD and DVD-A versus MP3 taught us something.


The only people who say 'there isn't much difference' are people who have never really seen Blu-ray.

This "there isn't much difference" nonsense gets passed around by media outlets and people believe it like it's true.

There's a huge difference. In the past 18 months, only one person I know has seen a Blu-ray disc and hasn't just been mouth-open-aghast at the quality improvement for some of the 'benchmark' material - like Planet Earth.

I don't remember that reaction with DVD. I remember people being impressed with DVD. I remember them thinking "not having to ever rewind" was a big deal. But I don't remember people stopping in mid movie to say to you "oh my god this looks incredible".

Especially not people like my mother, who recently did just that during a screening of Planet Earth on her shiny new BDP-S300 (a Christmas gift from my girlfriend and I).

I'm an HD-DVD owner, but I won't be happy until the format war is actually over. Warner Bros doing this without some sort of warning was a dick move, especially after they said they were going to be making TotalHD discs.

They officially dropped TotalHD 3 or 4 months ago. There was a press release and it was covered on the usual news outlets. That was the first real clue that something was afoot.

I'm not saying what Warner did was the classiest thing in the world but caveat emptor and the writing was on the wall.

They officially dropped TotalHD 3 or 4 months ago. There was a press release and it was covered on the usual news outlets. That was the first real clue that something was afoot.

I'm not saying what Warner did was the classiest thing in the world but caveat emptor and the writing was on the wall.

Well they did *officially* deny that there were any plans to forgo neutrality just before the holidays. This was right after the Dan Silberberg & Michael Burns comments and all the ensuing rumors immediately afterward.

Going exclusive may be good for HDM in the end... but holy crap 10 days after Christmas where Blu-ray, HD DVD and Warner titles *for both* were heavily promoted?!? That just strikes me as rude & disrespectful of the consumer. They may as well have said "Ha Ha - We fooled you!" to anyone who purchased an HD DVD player and Warner HD DVD titles.

Well they did *officially* deny that there were any plans to forgo neutrality just before the holidays. This was right after the Dan Silberberg & Michael Burns comments and all the ensuing rumors immediately afterward.

Going exclusive may be good for HDM in the end... but holy crap 10 days after Christmas where Blu-ray, HD DVD and Warner titles *for both* were heavily promoted?!? That just strikes me as rude & disrespectful of the consumer. They may as well have said "Ha Ha - We fooled you!" to anyone who purchased an HD DVD player and Warner HD DVD titles.

Come to think of it, better to screw a million HD-DVD owners now and end the war, than screw a million more at the end of the year.

The only people who say 'there isn't much difference' are people who have never really seen Blu-ray.

This "there isn't much difference" nonsense gets passed around by media outlets and people believe it like it's true.

There's a huge difference. In the past 18 months, only one person I know has seen a Blu-ray disc and hasn't just been mouth-open-aghast at the quality improvement for some of the 'benchmark' material - like Planet Earth.

I don't remember that reaction with DVD. I remember people being impressed with DVD. I remember them thinking "not having to ever rewind" was a big deal. But I don't remember people stopping in mid movie to say to you "oh my god this looks incredible".

Especially not people like my mother, who recently did just that during a screening of Planet Earth on her shiny new BDP-S300 (a Christmas gift from my girlfriend and I).

I just think it has been to long for you to remember how horrible VHS was. I recently gave my father my old VCR to replace his for home movies. I put in starwars to test it out. My eyes almost bleed from how horrible it looked. The top 10% was distorted like the tape was wrinkled, it was noisy it was grainy, everthing on screen seemed to have a shadow. The jump from VHS to DVD was huge much larger than from DVD to HDM. Go hook up an old VCR and test it out.

I agree if a person has a nice TV they will see the difference. The HDM will just pop with color vibrance and detail. The problems is most people are going to get that sub 1000 dollar walmart special LCD because it is 3 inches thick PQ be damned. On that low quality panel the difference is not nearly as great. The best example is testing 2 audio sources with 2 dollar earbuds. The earbuds destroy the SQ so much the source is irrelevent. I know someone with one of those walmart special LCDs. He bought it with out consulting me. I convinced him to get an antena to get OTA in HD. Unless I was looking really really really hard at normal viewing difference I could not really tell the difference between OTA and upscaled DVD. Sure blu is even higher quality but the crappy TV destroys it.

I was visiting a family friend last night, and there in his living room was a brand spanking new 42" Sony Bravia 1080p LCD accompanied by a Sony 5.1 HTIB. I searched for HD sources, but the dude was feeding the "Full HD" display with basic cable through the coax in the back. I just threw up a little in my mouth. He wasn't watching the bowl games because the cable reception was sketchy. :rolleyes:

Not to rag on him, but there are a lot of people like this guy who buy the HD TVs because they are the new "in thing" and because of convenient form factor (no room for huge CRTs or RPTVs anymore). The key to mass adoption is to get people like this to try HD, and at BD's prices, it is going to take a few years at least. Time will tell if BD had this kind of slack.

This is going to seem bizarre and sui generis, but I'd like to see techy folks advocating against corrective vision surgery now that HDM is going to get popular.

I have 20/13 vision when I squint without glasses, and a very patient optometrist so I don't have to squint. Vision changes at different rates over the course of a lifetime, and surgery messes with these rates of change even if it doesn't actually cloud the visual field. You aren't enjoying HD to the fullest while waiting for your eyes to restabilize after surgery.

I've only paid full retail for two of my almost 100 disks (More BR than HD DVD). I fear without competition I will have to pay more for movies over time.

Of course I'm happy the war is nearing the end.

Glad it is over. All the hate filled comments over near equal formats is saddening.

Cant we all just get along?


In the end one format will be better for prices. The more people adopt a format the lower prices will be. Economies of scale will bring down prices quicker than anything just like it did with DVD. More formats just means higher costs for everyone at this point.

An end to the format wars is a victory for rationality and plain ol' common sense.

Ditto....it was fun enjoying the spoils of the war this past weekend (if you 're a Blu Ray fan)....but all that can be said has been said (perhaps 100 times over and over).

I am looking forward to discusssing the myriad of new Blu Ray player manufacturers, equipment and movie transfer quality. That said, as long as exclusives are coming to HD DVD, I'll still be picking them up as well.

They should have sit down from the start and decided on ONE format. Sony and Toshiba should have lobbied them and they should have made the choice.

The backside to that is higher prices and it would have taken longer for the prices to come down.

The good thing about this war is that the best format won and it was the format the consumer wanted as well. We could have ended up with a something worse that the industry dictated.

I liked the format war as I thought the competition was good for awhile, probably bringing prices down and making it obvious they should bring in the advanced codecs.

But it's done it's job and I'm tired of it. I voted yes.

- Tom

the effin:eek:' hdm and player makers dont deserve my $; i have an hd-a2 and some hdm but im gonna make the best of my sd dvds.

bring on the oppo 983!:D

Well before I was hoping that OPPO would make a HD DVD/Blu-ray/DVD-A/SACD player. Now maybe they will look into a Blu-ray/DVD-A/SACD player. And price it about 600 bucks. That would be nice.

Whoa there buddy. People have the right to spend their money on whatever they please. If you want to spend it on Blu-Ray, more power to you.

Yet if people don't want to spend it on Blu-Ray, but on something else instead (DVD, downloads, whatever) lets not preach to people how they spend their hard earned cash.

If people are movie fans, they can get those movies a bunch of different ways - BD is not the only option.

That's fine, but we could do without all the whining.

Perhaps people simply see BD as having the same inevitable fate that HD DVD did once HD downloads that everyone is talking about becomes a reality. By the time you get your entire collection converted to Blu-Ray, HD downloads, 3D optical disc, or some other crap comes out where the studios will want to milk you on the treadmill all over again. Therefore it may not seem a wise investment to some, seeing how their current investment resulted.

Sure thing...When do you see instantaneous HD downloads becoming commonplace? 5 years? 10 years? Funny thing about people, they like having physical media.

Point blank, Toshiba and HD DVD really had no chance against the BDA from the start. They forced a low-price war as it was their only means of survival (not that it was an entirely bad thing, competition is good), and lured in a lot of casual people who probably wouldn't have bought in until the dust settled, if at all.

Now we have a whole slew of people who have their feelings and wallets hurt. I sympathize, but that is what the early adoption game is all about. Now AVS will be filled with HD DVD whining threads for the foreseeable future.

Sure thing...When do you see instantaneous HD downloads becoming commonplace? 5 years? 10 years? Funny thing about people, they like having physical media.

People don't like physical media, and an inconvenient truth for the movie studios is the raw power of the Internet...

Case 1: Facebook
founders: a couple of college dudes
been around: ~2 years
users: ~60 million

Case 2: HD DVD/Blu-ray
founders: The biggest CE and Hollywood companies
been around: ~2 years
users: ~8 million discs sold or equal to 1 DVD movie sold

... seems like people still love their DVDs ;)


Point blank, Toshiba and HD DVD really had no chance against the BDA from the start.

Warner decided. BDA couldn't defeat HD DVD on their own.


Now AVS will be filled with HD DVD whining threads for the foreseeable future.
Oh, stop whining will you :D

<snip>Point blank, Toshiba and HD DVD really had no chance against the BDA from the start. They forced a low-price war as it was their only means of survival (not that it was an entirely bad thing, competition is good), and lured in a lot of casual people who probably wouldn't have bought in until the dust settled, if at all.

Now we have a whole slew of people who have their feelings and wallets hurt. I sympathize, but that is what the early adoption game is all about. Now AVS will be filled with HD DVD whining threads for the foreseeable future.

Not all of us HD-DVD supporters will be whiners, though. I am very excited about the Warner news because I believe that Warner's choosing Blu-Ray exclusivity moves us closer to an end than if they had chosen HD-DVD exclusivity.

I had an Xbox 360 HD-DVD Add-On (I bought it day 1) and about 40 HD-DVDs. With a growing family and the uncertainty of HD-DVDs future, I liquidated (about 6 weeks ago) and decided to wait out the war, painful as it may be to go back to SD for awhile.

While Blu-Ray is still a little too pricey for me, I'm excited to think that by next Christmas I may be able to enjoy HD movies again. I guess my point is that if people's wallets or feelings are hurt by this war, then they should've waited to jump in...

People don't like physical media, and an inconvenient truth for the movie studios is the raw power of the Internet...

Case 1: Facebook
founders: a couple of college dudes
been around: ~2 years
users: ~60 million

Case 2: HD DVD/Blu-ray
founders: The biggest CE and Hollywood companies
been around: ~2 years
users: ~8 million discs sold or equal to 1 DVD movie sold

... seems like people still love their DVDs ;)

I'm a little confused by your argument. Is your argument that since Facebook has 60 million users and HDM only has 8 million discs sold, people don't like physical media?

I'm a little confused by your argument. Is your argument that since Facebook has 60 million users and HDM only has 8 million discs sold, people don't like physical media?

No, what he is saying is that with improvement in bandwith you can expect hi-def downloads (such as iTunes licensing with mp3s) to EXPLODE, just like Facebook, iTunes and other online services have. People are more tech savvy when it comes to online services. They've grown comfortable with them. The ONLY thing preventing HD downloads is bandwidth, but it's happening. Frankly I expect major US metropolitan areas to have super high speed connections by 2009. My Cox Communications has announced bandwidth upgrades to 45mbps and more very soon. My cable connection is 20mbps now, average in Phoenix is 10mbps. The whole thing is closer then you think. Don't forget Japan and Europe have much higher bandwidth implementations too, so US is the one lagging behind.

The obvious example is Netflix. They completely killed Blockbuster. Unimaginable. An online service, where you have to wait a day or two to order movies (but it makes you sit on your couch) killed a video rental place that is in every freakin' neighborhood.

The digital is closer then anyone here wants to accept.

Here let's say I want to create a service. .WMVHD files. You buy movies and download them in encrypted WMVHD files with licensing and I can watch them on any computer or my digital home theater. I wouldn't have problems waiting for 20 mins to buy/download a movie, I wouldn't even mind waiting an hour or more. Hell I'd spend more time driving to B&M store and buying the movie myself.

No, what he is saying is that with improvement in bandwith you can expect hi-def downloads (such as iTunes licensing with mp3s) to EXPLODE, just like Facebook, iTunes and other online services have. People are more tech savvy when it comes to online services. They've grown comfortable with them. The ONLY thing preventing HD downloads is bandwidth, but it's happening. Frankly I accept major US metropolitan areas to have super high speed connections by 2009. My Cox Communications has announced bandwidth upgrades to 45mbps and more very soon. My cable connection is 20mbps now. The whole thing is closer then you think. Don't forget Japan and Europe have much higher bandwidth implementations too, so US is the one lagging behind.

The obvious example is Netflix. They completely killed Blockbuster. Unimaginable. An online service, where you have to wait a day or two to order movies (but it makes you sit on your couch) killed a video rental place that is in every freakin' neighborhood.

The digital is closer then anyone here wants to accept.

I don't disagree. Though I'd like to think that download to burn will be a feature that lives at least a short while for those of us that still like physical media :)

No....its a ways off.. Walmart just shutdown there new digital download service.... its going no where fast.

No....its a ways off.. Walmart just shutdown there new digital download service.... its going no where fast.

most people that shop at walmart in the bible belt don't even know what interweb is.

Yes, very happy.

Sadly it will kill BOGO sales and inexpensive players. This also comes at a time when adoption will be very slow (Jan. - June).

Yes, I am happy it may be over and it's good news for the uneducated (i.e. average) consumer who has been confused about HDM.

If, in fact, it is over I will keep my 360 AO for the HD-DVD's I currently own and I will buy a BD player for future HDM purchases/rentals. Simple.

I am happy it may be over. I will be much happier when it is actually over.

Its a long ways from over. Sony has only begun to bleed. If Warner and fox can divide up 500 million to go blu, what are they going to have to pay Disney to stay blu. How much will it cost to get Paramount back. How much to turn Universal. They've all seen the cash sony is throwing around i'm sure they'd like some of it. Toshiba has plenty of money also. They were in the bidding for warner, maybe they now go to disney and try to make a deal. War over? I don't think so.:p

I vote no, only because of the outcome. I think this puts us, all of us that are HDM supporters, in the Laserdisk niche category of consumers. It's going to be a long time before Blu can beat DVD, HD would have done it quicker.

I just hope that there isn't scorched earth policy implemented but otherwise yes.

Although I voted "yes", the "war" is far from over.

The assumption seems to be with some people that if there is only 1 HD standard, then that will accelerate its adoption as the replacement for SD DVDs. That is going to be the hard sell.

I believe somewhere in the human psyche there is a "reasonableness" chip. It has been programmed, as another poster jokingly said, by $5 DVDs and $30 players. To re-program that chip, manufacturers and their marketing departments will have to somehow convince the average person that they are truly missing out on something they "need" for complete enjoyment.

Thing is, the "reasonableness" chip will have a tendency to resist any action unless both the media and the hardware are priced "reasonably". I'm seeing more of my friends buying flat screens, not necessarily because of the better picture quality, but because an older set has died and the price of plasma and LCD replacement sets is close to what they would consider reasonable. These are not the people buying the 1080p sets.

So, is it ultimately better that it appears just 1 HD format will survive? Yes. It it going to be a slow process for event this 1 format to see mass adoption? Most likely.

People don't like physical media, and an inconvenient truth for the movie studios is the raw power of the Internet...

Case 1: Facebook
founders: a couple of college dudes
been around: ~2 years
users: ~60 million

Case 2: HD DVD/Blu-ray
founders: The biggest CE and Hollywood companies
been around: ~2 years
users: ~8 million discs sold or equal to 1 DVD movie sold

seems like people still love their DVDs ;)


WHAT is your point then :-)

Although I voted "yes", the "war" is far from over.

The assumption seems to be with some people that if there is only 1 HD standard, then that will accelerate its adoption as the replacement for SD DVDs. That is going to be the hard sell.

I believe somewhere in the human psyche there is a "reasonableness" chip. It has been programmed, as another poster jokingly said, by $5 DVDs and $30 players. To re-program that chip, manufacturers and their marketing departments will have to somehow convince the average person that they are truly missing out on something they "need" for complete enjoyment.

Thing is, the "reasonableness" chip will have a tendency to resist any action unless both the media and the hardware are priced "reasonably". I'm seeing more of my friends buying flat screens, not necessarily because of the better picture quality, but because an older set has died and the price of plasma and LCD replacement sets is close to what they would consider reasonable. These are not the people buying the 1080p sets.

So, is it ultimately better that it appears just 1 HD format will survive? Yes. It it going to be a slow process for event this 1 format to see mass adoption? Most likely.

Truer words have never been spoken, my friend. Good luck to HDM. I'd hate for it to turn into the next niche format behind SACD and DVD-A.

This is really kind of a stupid poll. Who in their right mind WANTS any war to continue.

So, yes, duh, it's a good thing for a war to end.

OTOH, it is most definitely NOT a good thing that it may be won by a format that has been engineered to abuse consumers through its draconian DRM strategies, and has been generally lackluster in performance compared to its rival besides.

How? Blu-ray honestly just does not impress me with its PQ. Time and time again I've seen BD's playing in the stores with just tons of digital noise (and, no, I know what grain looks like, buddy... this weren't it), far more than the equivalent title on HD DVD. WTF is up with that? I mean, if the encodes are supposed to be the same, why does Blu-ray present such a crappy picture?

If they'd do away with BD+ and their other anti-consumer DRM schemes (yes, I eventually do want to store all my media on a central home server for instant access from anywhere in the house, thank you very much) and fix their inferior decoders (or whatever their problem is), then, maybe, I could say I was "happy."

Well I consider myself an average person with a layman's knowledge of this issue. Maybe a bit more informed than JSP but not a lot more. But enough that I wasn't buying anything. Why? Didn't know which way to go. Didn't want to spend money on a format that would be, perhaps, useless in a year or so. I just can't afford to make a mistake.

So I, like perhaps thousands or millions of others, just waited. We don't care which format wins. Just somebody win please so we can get on with things.

Now, with this recent news perhaps we are getting closer to the end. Not 100% sure yet but at least there is some movement.

Hopefully I, and others like me, won't have to wait much longer.

James :)

Finally we can move on. I have 2 players of each format, so I dont really care as it is only a format after all, but preferred HD-DVD since BD was and is less consumer friendly, unnecessarily more expensive, and not a finished product. OTOH-extra capacity and bitrate is good as you can never have enough storage space.

Hopefully HDM will not be relegated to the niche status as was laserdisc (which I never owned)

How? Blu-ray honestly just does not impress me with its PQ. Time and time again I've seen BD's playing in the stores with just tons of digital noise (and, no, I know what grain looks like, buddy... this weren't it), far more than the equivalent title on HD DVD. WTF is up with that? I mean, if the encodes are supposed to be the same, why does Blu-ray present such a crappy picture?



I most certainly am not happy with Blu-ray getting a win, but at the same time, I gotta defend it - if you were seeing this on displays in the store it doesn't mean anything. Depending on where you were and who set it up, it certainly wasn't a calibrated set, and if they were even smart enough to setup the display with something other than the included Yellow cable it would have been a miracle. Lambasting anything based on what you saw (without fiddling with settings yourself) in a store is bad policy, retailers can't be trusted to show you anything, be it a TV or HDM format, to it's true potential.

That said, I have been going over the threads in the blu-ray player forum and since I have an Onkyo 674 that doesn't support HDMI 1.3 it looks like this little format war not only requires me to lay out at least 400 for a BD player, but I need a new reciever as well. Thanks Warner, I can't wait to enjoy the Dark Knight on BD in 2012 when I might maybe be able to afford it. :p

Well, now that I have had a weekend to get my blood pressure down and look at this calmly and rationally, this is my take on what happened and how I will respond.

I am not normally one who will be an early adopter, simply because when you are on the cutting edge, there is usually some blood spilled. I stayed away from all the other format wars, so was never burned there. I was always sorry Betamax didn't make it because it was better quality, but by the time the Sony morons corrected the key flaw, which was the length of time it would record, the opportunity for studio support was gone .

The only reason I got in this time, frankly, was because I got the player for $88. That was a CC price match of the Walmart BF sale. I suspect there are a number of other HDDVD folks who got their feet wet because of the price and will now go back to the sidelines for awhile. Otherwise I would have waited for a resolution and then probably bought an XA2\onkyo\integra. I had always coveted the big Denon but they were way too expensive for me. The XA2 would have been a way to get nearly that performance on SD's with HD at a much more attractive price.

Now I am using a 4 yr old, Hitatchi rear projection, fully calibrated, including duvetyne lining. That being said, it is still no match for a 1080P 120hz 4ms lcd so the case for HD vs upconverted SD isn't all that compelling for me. But I figured for $88, what the hell.

I do believe this format war is decided. How or why is pretty immaterial, the fact is - it's over. I now have a nice upconverting player and about a dozen HDDVDs some of which are combo's, so while a little annoying, the situation is not so bad for me.

The question is, for me and other HDDVD users, is what now? Remember, except for the cheap entry, I would still be on the sidelines. For me, there are a couple of items that will keep me out for a while. First, BD Live. I won't buy a SA without it. I'm not moving backwards in features - period. We'll see how that new Panasonic tests out when legitimate reviewers (Secrets) get their hands on it. Second question is, "will BD actually gain traction?". Hey, burned once, twice shy! I'm not interested in having a niche format (at least I don't think so).

What could change me? If my RPTV failed or my dog jumped thru the screen (so far she seem willing) and I was forced to buy a 1080p 120hz 4ms LCD :) , I would have no alternative but go BD ASAP (but still not without 2.0) because that would be a compelling improvement.

Understand that I will not now or in the future buy a PS3. I do not want a game machine. The biggest thing I resented, was that it seemed that the future HD format was being determined by a bunch of pimple faced 15 year old gamers, which was something that Warner specifically said they didn't want.

However, some data seems to indicate that Toshiba has not been able to either, maintain or expand the lead in SA's. That being the case, I am more comfortable that this can be driven by the approriate audience.

I just hope that Sony doesn't snatch defeat from the jaws of victory. More than a savvy CE, I am reminded of the tale of infinite monkeys at infinite typewriters.

I voted yes, I'm glad the war between HD DVD and BD is effectively over.

But I currently own neither format and do not at all expect that means BD has some sort of automatic get-out-of-jail free card to be successful. I exclusively use HTPC playback, my video card has no HDMI outputs, and my front projector has no HDMI inputs.

Also I'm taking a wait and see stance on how draconian BD+ appears to function on PC's and on issues like full audio and video resolution on PC playback. There appear to be extra non-published regulations on PC playback limiting some of these things.

So while I think one particular 'war' is over I've been mostly neutral since the beginning and nobody should paint me quite blue yet.

HTPC folks may not continue to play in this arena.

- Tom

I'm just concerned there will be no more BOGO and media prices will go back to the levels of 1 year ago. No more great player sales either.

- Jon

glad it's over, but hoping that blu ray continues to improve pricing and get to 2.0 as fast as possible. It's still not at the point where I'm willing to buy in.

glad it's over, but hoping that blu ray continues to improve pricing and get to 2.0 as fast as possible. It's still not at the point where I'm willing to buy in.


.....and notice these type of comments from people who even know a forum like this exists. :eek:

I suppose that the hardware manufacturers are hoping for wide adoption of the HD format, but I wonder if this is ever going to truly be a mass market item, or just a niche market.

I still buy SACDs and I hope my Pioneer 45A universal player doesn't fail for a long time. But, even if it does and I cannot find a decent SACD player, all the discs are still playable on a standard CD player (I only buy hybrid).

Not so with HD discs, no matter which format. So, in addition to my other reservations, that's been another holdup for me. At last count, I had 261 DVDs. Not an extremely large collection by any means, but still an investment. I know that, no matter what, I will be able to play these in virtually any dedicated player, PC, or portable DVD player for a long time to come.

With HD discs, that same flexibility, at least for the present, will come at a very high investment in hardware.


....and these comments coming from someone who bought one of the first SQ Quadraphonic surround receivers, Advent Videobeam projection set, one of the first Magnavox LD players, one of the first CD players, one of the first DVD players.....I've been an early adopter of a good deal of new technology....but this time, like many others....I'm still not convinced that the dust has settled in thsi current "war".

Resounding YES

The "war" had some benefits initially, with competition on player and media prices, but to achieve mainstream consumption, it really needed to come to an end, and I'm glad it looks like it has. I own both formats, and love both of them, so whichever way it could have gone, I would have been ok with it. The only reason I'm slightly happier about Blu-Ray winning than HDDVD is that I invested more money in that format. (PS3+ a lot more movies). That said, I'll still be enjoying my hddvd player for many years (hopefully)

Sadly it will kill BOGO sales and inexpensive players. This also comes at a time when adoption will be very slow (Jan. - June).

Yeah, the movie studios never compete with each other. And the CE companies never compete with each other either. In fact just the other day I saw Panasonic giving Samsung $100,000,000 just because "that's what friends do." Then they held hands and skipped off.

I would to see Toshiba call an impromptu news conference at CES and declare:

a) We are halting production of HD DVD players as of now
b) We will honer all contractual obligations with our partners
c) We release all our partners from their contractual obligations with Toshiba
d) We will honer all obligations to support our fielded players for two years

There comes a time in war where unconditional surrender prevails over the passion to continue the fight.

--- CHAS

BD player prices drop to compete amongst themselves. And the MSRP's of BD's were never higher than HD DVD in practical releases, not even at the beginning. And as with all things, prices are much better online than in B&M stores.

Yes they were. The first HD DVD players did everything. The first BD players were BD 1.0. Now we still have mostly BD 1.1 players. I am looking for something to replace my $300 HD-A35. The closest thing would be the Panny BD30 but even that lacks Ethernet & BD Live.

If I really want an HD-A35 equivalent I am looking at a $700 MSRP BD50 which haven't even been released yet. $700 is more than the HD-A35 when release 9 months ago and more than an HD-A1 at the format launch.
Prices just took a 2 year jump back. Maybe in Christmas 2009 we will see BD 2.0 players that are only $100 more than HD DVD players were in Christmas 2007. Yeah for the consumer.

I am a realist. HD DVD is dead but I don't think it is the best thing for long term adoption. The number of consumer who will spend more than $200 for a "movie box" of any kind is maybe 5% of the market. We will never see HDM get 10% market penetration and profits large enough for studios to be fully committed until BOTH the format war is over (Toshiba making BD players) AND a full featured BD 2.0 player is $199.

Those that think consumers will be rushing to snatch up $800 BD players just because the "war is over" are fooling themselves. Those who think prices for obsolete BD 1.0 & 1.1 player will reamain low are equally foolish. BD 1.0 & 1.1 players are lowered in price because they are obsolete and BD 2.0 is arriving. BD 2.0 resets the whole high BD player pricing all over.

Competition brought better features and lower prices to both camps.

Scott

I agree. If the war does end soon, there will be less competition (therefore higher prices). Less features as standard. Well until the next format war.

I liked the war myself for all the sweet deals on players (free movie wise) and b1g1 sales on media.

I prefered hd dvd but I own plenty of movies on both anyway so no biggie. I just hope blu-ray gets their act together and starts including some of the interactive and downloadable features like hd dvd has. I always feel a bit jipped with the blu-ray extras that aren't really any better than what dvd has.

And regardless of what side of the fence universal ends up on, I need to hear some release dates for season two of heroes and bsg on high def. ;)

very happy because I was one the people on the fence

Hell no. We had cheap players, BOGOs, and mail-in give aways. The format war was the best thing for early adopters.

I agree. If the war does end soon, there will be less competition (therefore higher prices). Less features as standard. Well until the next format war.

Disagree - Mac's and PC's once competed head-to-head for the same market. There were some early advantages to this. However, once PC's took off and dominated the vast majority of the market - hardware and software manufacturers competed for the same consumer on the same OS platform and prices dropped and functionality greatly improved - apples-to-apples (ugh pun) competition is better!!

Disagree - Mac's and PC's once competed head-to-head for the same market. There were some early advantages to this. However, once PC's took off and dominated the vast majority of the market - hardware and software manufacturers competed for the same consumer on the same OS platform and prices dropped and functionality greatly improved - apples-to-apples (ugh pun) competition is better!!

Bad example MACs are a closed platform. Only apple makes them so they set the pricing. PC has always been an open standard anyone can make parts or boxes. PC prices were going drop no matter what because of 100s of companys making parts and prebuilt boxes. MAC prices are still sky high because there is 1 vendor.

" I love the smell opf napalm in the morning". I think I'd rather see it drag on a bit longer to further reduce player prices and most especially disc prices. There's been an alarming move towards $39.99 list prices the last couple of months by most of the studios for every bloody, new release, seemingly.

I love the way Toshiba has made the BDA jump through flaming hoops. I wanna see mo'.

Definitely happy this is wrapping up.

Nope, the format war is a good thing. The lack of competition and incentive to improve will stagnate the technology at the status quo.

I don't trust Sony and the BDA to push the technology envelope of their own volition without external pressures. We saw this with the craptacular initial BR releases; without HD-DVD to prove what quality HDM *could* look like, we'd all be in artifact hell to this very day.

(Not to mention that you can bet the BOGOs and discounts will trickle away to nothing.)

Bad example MACs are a closed platform. Only apple makes them so they set the pricing. PC has always been an open standard anyone can make parts or boxes. PC prices were going drop no matter what because of 100s of companys making parts and prebuilt boxes. MAC prices are still sky high because there is 1 vendor.

And the same thing won't happen when all manufacturures are making hardware for a single, standard format?

How many hardware manufacturers are there for HD-DVD?

Early on, PC's were more expensive than Macs and there weren't 100's (or tens) of companies making PC's...

I don't understand how everyone (aka all of the pre-existing Blu-ray backers) can sit there and spout off the "Get over it. Blu-ray won. Accept it." and so forth. I'm assuming a great number of them are Americans and I'd be willing to be that a great number of those Americans didn't vote for George Bush. I seem to remember lots of backlash about his second term in office, even to this day, with people going on and on about how they "didn't vote for him" and such.

How is this any different? I, and many, many others, didn't vote for Blu-ray. Blu-ray "winning" doesn't make me happy. Blu-ray doesn't represent what I want in a high definition media format.

When I can walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, Target or go to Amazon and buy the Blu-ray versions of Batman Begins, The Ultimate Matrix Collection and 300 (all for instance and not all-inclusive) that have the EXACT same features and functionality as their superior HD DVD versions (for those movies that DO exist on Blu-ray)...that's the day I buy a Blu-ray player and "accept" it as my HDM format.

I don't understand how everyone (aka all of the pre-existing Blu-ray backers) can sit there and spout off the "Get over it. Blu-ray won. Accept it." and so forth. I'm assuming a great number of them are Americans and I'd be willing to be that a great number of those Americans didn't vote for George Bush. I seem to remember lots of backlash about his second term in office, even to this day, with people going on and on about how they "didn't vote for him" and such.

How is this any different?Whoa whoa whoa... are you suggesting that Blu-ray people are predominantly Liberal, and HD DVD people predominantly Conservative?!?

Actually, now that you mention it, it does make a lot of sense... there is, after all, that whole Red State/Blue State U.S. election map thing.... ;):D


I, and many, many others, didn't vote for Blu-ray. Blu-ray "winning" doesn't make me happy. Blu-ray doesn't represent what I want in a high definition media format.

When I can walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, Target or go to Amazon and buy the Blu-ray versions of Batman Begins, The Ultimate Matrix Collection and 300 (all for instance and not all-inclusive) that have the EXACT same features and functionality as their superior HD DVD versions (for those movies that DO exist on Blu-ray)...that's the day I buy a Blu-ray player and "accept" it as my HDM format.+1!!

I just hope Social Security holds on that long.

Yup..i got a ps3 and was considering a hd dvd player.
Now i dont have to.

The correct anology with a war would be:

Nazi prancing about in Paris while demanding surrender and offering terms to England.

Should we be happy? No.

Region coding, expensive media, bug prone java coding for multiple player vm implementations, potential BD+ software to implement spyware and enforced consumer right revocations.
Forced high setup fees for independent studio and indies, mandatory AACS fees.
Entire replication industry doomed to a multi billion investement in production capacity instead far less costly upgrade options.

And a high risk that HDM will get stuck in a niche market.

After this pr feeding frenzy the reality will sink in.
Once customers having read about this 'br won' pr blitz they will start looking at the $40 price tag.

HDM is done. It will become an expensive niche.

A niche could be a good thing... I enjoyed LD for 10 years and the releases were well done.. SO, whatever. Niche or mainstream, I'll take it.

Entire replication industry doomed to a multi billion investement in production capacity instead far less costly upgrade options.I got a question.
It costs 40 thousand dollars to upgrade an existing DVD replicator to make HD-DVD's. It costs 1 million dollars to just buy a new Blu Ray replicator.
How many machines does a single manufacturing company usually have?
Just wondering cause I keep hearing people say it costs anywhere from 200-400 million to start a blu ray factory.. seems kind of high.

SO, whatever. Niche or mainstream, I'll take it.So will I.
Being an HDTV owner, Im part of the niche 45% crowd. Nothing wrong with that either.

The correct anology with a war would be:

Nazi prancing about in Paris while demanding surrender and offering terms to England.


Blu-ray is now akin to Nazism? Wow, some people have become way too invested in this.

Wow. So sad. It seems there were many people engaged in this war that didn't realize they could lose. How tragic. I went Blu-Ray, but it was a risk, and I knew I may regret it because it could be the losing format (hell, even now it could be, if everyone decides f'it, just move to HD-DVD to end the madness), but there is no reason to get bitter at anyone else. It was a choise to participate, and the true cost of that choice is now demanded. That is all, really.

Blu-ray is now akin to Nazism? Wow, some people have become way too invested in this.


In 1940 we were in the situation that England and it's allies virtually lost the war. England held out just like Universal end Paramount **might** do, (but I doubt it.) without an effective army left. It could have been over in a matter of weeks. Luckily the entire balance of the War evolved around the stubborness of a single individual holding out.

But I doubt Ken would be a second Winston though.

Over 160 people are NOT happy to have the War over ????

I would say I'm more relieved than anything, I have been dreading the "war" since they failed to make that last compromise before the players started shipping.

Absolutely. I've hated this war from the beginning. I came so close to buying either a Samsung BD5000 (Thank God I didn't) or an HD DVD standalone last month. With the war approaching an end I don't have to worry about that any longer.

In 1940 we were in the situation that England and it's allies virtually lost the war. England held out just like Universal end Paramount **might** do, (but I doubt it.) without an effective army left. It could have been over in a matter of weeks. Luckily the entire balance of the War evolved around the stubborness of a single individual holding out.

But I doubt Ken would be a second Winston though.
Ah, I see. So who's Hitler then? Howard Stringer?

Ah, I see. So who's Hitler then? Howard Stringer?


Don't think persons. Think region coding, bd+ , control, control, control...
at a high price tag.

We already got to sit through forced propagande before the main feature starts on several occasions.

No. I think the war had each party working a little harder. Now Sony doesn't even have to put up an effort.

Blu-ray is now akin to Nazism? Wow, some people have become way too invested in this.

Its apparent they are very angry..especially to go to these lenghts...comparing blu ray to nazism IS pretty out there...regardless.

Wow. So sad. It seems there were many people engaged in this war that didn't realize they could lose. How tragic. I went Blu-Ray, but it was a risk, and I knew I may regret it because it could be the losing format (hell, even now it could be, if everyone decides f'it, just move to HD-DVD to end the madness), but there is no reason to get bitter at anyone else. It was a choise to participate, and the true cost of that choice is now demanded. That is all, really.

Same here..sure im glad that blu ray is coming out on top because i have a ps3.

Technically, he compared HD DVD to 1940's England, not BD to Nazis.

I wish there was a mixed feelings option.

It makes me unhappy I chose the wrong side. It makes me unhappy Warner left now rather than 6 months from now (forcing BD player prices down further and maybe push out 2.0 faster).

But I'm happy it might be coming to an end. And I'm happy if HD DVD dies that I'm only out about $400 (Add-on and $99 A3 plus a few movies). Or am I unhappy I'm out $400? I'm so confused!

Bad example MACs are a closed platform. Only apple makes them so they set the pricing. PC has always been an open standard anyone can make parts or boxes. PC prices were going drop no matter what because of 100s of companys making parts and prebuilt boxes. MAC prices are still sky high because there is 1 vendor.Why is that a bad example? Only Toshiba makes HD-DVD players.

Why is that a bad example? Only Toshiba makes HDDVD players.

Anyone can make HD-dvd players just pay a royalty to toshiba CEs choose not to. No one but apple can make MACs because apple will not allow it.

Anyone can make HD-dvd players just pay a royalty to toshiba CEs choose not to. No one but apple can make MACs because apple will not allow it.Perhaps anyone can, but no one has, making Toshiba the de facto Apple of HD-DVD.

I'm sorry...are Onkyo, Integra and Venturer all owned by Toshiba?

I'm sorry...are Onkyo, Integra and Venturer all owned by Toshiba?

1. From Engadget:
"Apparently Onkyo expects to launch the DV-HD805 this autumn, and it will be based on the Toshiba HD-XA2 player -- with a few yet to be mentioned tweaks."

2. Integra is Onkyo

3. That just leaves the Venturer. According to Hi-Def Digest:
"According to early reports, the player is functionally identical to Toshiba's HD-A3 HD DVD player, offering 1080i video output via HDMI and Dolby TrueHD support." Besides, would you buy one?

Bad example MACs are a closed platform. Only apple makes them so they set the pricing. PC has always been an open standard anyone can make parts or boxes. PC prices were going drop no matter what because of 100s of companys making parts and prebuilt boxes. MAC prices are still sky high because there is 1 vendor.

Macs are more like the PS3: expensive, but what you get for the money is a great deal. Take the newly released Mac Pro for example: you can't find a PC with the same specs for less (or even the same price... even from Dell).

Gizmodo: New Mac Pro (http://gizmodo.com/342091/new-apple-mac-pro-eight-cores-support-for-eight-30+inch-cinema-displays-count-em-baby)

Essentially Macs are slightly more expensive than PCs on the low end, they are the same as PCs in the mid range, and often less expensive at the high end.

But no company is quite like Apple... so I wouldn't dare compare Toshiba to them despite a few seeming similarities.

Where is the option for "ecstatic"?

:cool:

I bet if gamers were asked this questions about gaming platforms, they'd say they don't care. They just buy the gaming platform with the games they like to play. Many buy multiple systems so they can play the exclusive. Don't see too much difference with movies as many have both xbox and ps3.

I voted Yes, here's why:

I personally don't mind having two formats as I bought stand-alone players for both formats.

The problem I have with two formats is that I am the go to guy in my circle of friends when people want to know which electronics to buy. I couldn't give them a straight answer before because I didn't want to risk their hard earned money (and my reputation) on something that might be a loser.

With what looks like a winner now, I have an answer to this question.

-AndyW

1. From Engadget:
"Apparently Onkyo expects to launch the DV-HD805 this autumn, and it will be based on the Toshiba HD-XA2 player -- with a few yet to be mentioned tweaks."

2. Integra is Onkyo

3. That just leaves the Venturer. According to Hi-Def Digest:
"According to early reports, the player is functionally identical to Toshiba's HD-A3 HD DVD player, offering 1080i video output via HDMI and Dolby TrueHD support." Besides, would you buy one?
Regardless of whether or not I would buy one, those are different CEs offering HD DVD players, are they not?

It doesn't matter what the internals are. Alienware and HP make similar computers all using the same components, but I don't hear people bitching about there being a monopoly on computer hardware. How is this any different?

And I know Integra is Onkyo.

I am very happy the war may be over but it seem it may be dragging on here for another year or two!

I am very happy the war may be over but it seem it may be dragging on here for another year or two!
It would be easier if retailers just refused to carry 1 of the formats. Pretty simple.

I voted yes because now we can start looking at the real w** with SD and maybe the new next thing, DOCSIS. We may just be a footnote in the history of electronic entertainment. I still have my Sony SL-HF750 beta VCR and I have tapes too! It still works.
Just remember the average consumer can find very little difference between HD and SD with one the exception, of the cost. The average consumer will one the day. And on that day the new king (or Queen) will be crowned.

I vote no, only because of the outcome. I think this puts us, all of us that are HDM supporters, in the Laserdisk niche category of consumers. It's going to be a long time before Blu can beat DVD, HD would have done it quicker.

Agreed. I think we are underestimating the importance of name recognition in this thing. I can see J6pack seeing "HDDVD" at $199 or lower, and being more quickly comfortable with the whole thing.

BluRay, on the other hand, I am afraid is going to be percieved by the masses at WalMart for a long time as "that rich-folk's and high roller's stuff that I can't afford anyway". And when they see the prices, they are going to slow down a bit as they pass the display, then ease on by.

I think Sony/BR may have screwed the pooch on this one.

Regardless of whether or not I would buy one, those are different CEs offering HD DVD players, are they not?

It doesn't matter what the internals are. Alienware and HP make similar computers all using the same components, but I don't hear people bitching about there being a monopoly on computer hardware. How is this any different?

And I know Integra is Onkyo.I suppose you could say so if you also think that a Kia is different from a Hyundai. Does hp make Alienware's guts?

Still, you can't differentiate between Onkyo and Integra, so that leaves 2. And since the Onkyo/Integra is basically a rebadged XA2, that leaves 1 other manufacturer.

I don't know of many similar situations with BD.

Anyone can make HD-dvd players just pay a royalty to toshiba CEs choose not to. No one but apple can make MACs because apple will not allow it.

And the market impact of non-Toshiba HD-DVD manufacturers to date has been:
1) Of major significance.
2) Of moderate significance.
3) Insignificant.
??

Again, I'm speaking of the early Apple - mid-'80s or thereabouts - at the time I was in publishing technology - where Mac's revolutionized the production process. Later I was in more pure business functionality where PC's fought back and eventually dominated. Early on, PC's had as many manufacturers as BD does, once it became a de-facto business standard, PC's were coming from everywhere.

Head-to-head, single platform (and/or format) competition by multiple manufacturers will always do better than a single-source solution - whether it's single source by control or single-source because no one else is interested....

Perhaps anyone can, but no one has, making Toshiba the de facto Apple of HD-DVD.

I hear the major issue was with Toshiba subsidizing the cost of the $99 players. No other CE could compete and even remotely make a profit.

I don't know of many similar situations with BD.

You don't know of many similar situations with BD because they can have their players do whatever they feel like as there is no standard dictating what it means to be "Blu-ray compliant" apart from reading the discs and displaying a 1080p image?

At best, Blu-Ray is the next DVD. At worst, it's the next LaserDisc. Either way, I'll be thilled! :-)

At best, Blu-Ray is the next DVD. At worst, it's the next LaserDisc. Either way, I'll be thilled! :-)That makes HD DVD the next CED:

And the CED format had far more manufacturers on-board than HD DVD:
Elmo, GE, Hitachi, Penney's, RCA, Sears, Wards, Zenith and...



Low and behold - Toshiba
http://www.cedmagic.com/museum/ced-player-guide/vp500.jpg
Toshiba VP500 Capacitance Electronic Disc Player Circa 1982

From the makers of:

http://wesclark.com/am/toshiba_vs_443.jpg

All in good fun! :p

Agreed. I think we are underestimating the importance of name recognition in this thing. I can see J6pack seeing "HDDVD" at $199 or lower, and being more quickly comfortable with the whole thing.

BluRay, on the other hand, I am afraid is going to be percieved by the masses at WalMart for a long time as "that rich-folk's and high roller's stuff that I can't afford anyway". And when they see the prices, they are going to slow down a bit as they pass the display, then ease on by.

I think Sony/BR may have screwed the pooch on this one.

DVD was there once. I saw my first player in 1998 and had to go back to my place to watch crappy VHS again. I knew one day I would have a player but it was way out of my range. 1999 saw players still around $950 here in Canada. Later in 2000 I finally got my first DVD player.

DVD players weren't always $30-$100 items. I am still shocked that I only paid $150 for my Sony upconvertor for my HDTV at the time. I couldn't believe the functionality and excellent picture I was getting for the price. Now a 1080p version of the same player is even less expensive!

My first CD player cost me big $$$ back in the late 1980s. The thing was just under $1000 then and is so well built I still use it for a transport. CD was uber expensive early on as well.

Here we are barely 2 years in and Blu-Ray players are sub $500 here in Canada plus the $399 PS3. Very affordable for a 2-3'rd wave adoptor like me. With Chinese manufacturing to come I see $300 fully featured players (2.0) in a year or two.

All a matter of time.:)

Yes I'm happy. And I'm returning my HD DVD player I purchased a couple weeks ago. Better safe than sorry, I say.

Nope Its not over. Its going to be along time before its over.

As a dual format owner, I am actually happy the war is over and Blu-Ray won. My Blu-Ray experience has been much more positive than my HD DVD experience, and I believe that Warner did the right thing. They looked at what the consumer wanted and backed the correct format. I hope that Universal (especially) and Paramount follow quickly so that Blu-Ray can have 100% major studio support and become the HDM defacto standard.

the real battle starts now the defeat of sd i am not sure it will take as long as some
skeptics think with everything from news and sports besides movies being advertised
as now avaliable in hd.

There is not "may be" over. The format war is over.
Only those with a bitter taste of defeat are boycotting Blu-ray but they'll come on board when their friends/neighbors brag about their Blu-ray player experience and how great they look on their HDTV.

Yes I'm happy. And I'm returning my HD DVD player I purchased a couple weeks ago. Better safe than sorry, I say.
What will you tell them for the "reason for return"?

There is not "may be" over. The format war is over.
Only those with a bitter taste of defeat are boycotting Blu-ray but they'll come on board when their friends/neighbors brag about their Blu-ray player experience and how great they look on their HDTV.

+1

Strange how folks who say they love hi-def get so petty about the whole HDM situation.

Agreed though..when it's all said and done, they'll ALL buy a Blu machine..no way they'll sit around watching old HD DVD and SD material.

Happy? I´m giddy.

+1

Strange how folks who say they love hi-def get so petty about the whole HDM situation.

Agreed though..when it's all said and done, they'll ALL buy a Blu machine..no way they'll sit around watching old HD DVD and SD material.

But first, we'll sit around and whine until the Panny bd50 is out. No self respecting red ant will buy either a PS3 or a non Profile 2.0 player. :p

+1 Strange how folks who say they love hi-def get so petty about the whole HDM situation.

Agreed though..when it's all said and done, they'll ALL buy a Blu machine..no way they'll sit around watching old HD DVD and SD material.

Let's start by saying I agree with your last statement, I'll eventually buy the next HDM standard. However, that "standard" had better guarantee that a disk I buy will play in its designated player. That's problem #1 with BD. Problem #2 is BD+ and its capabilities, which is much more than merely providing another DRM layer. Problem #3 is that with BD, you have no fair use provisions at all. #4 is region encoding, which is merely a way to price-fix multiple markets. #5 is the reliance on a 10+ year old obsolete inefficient compression codec, which, btw, pretty much negates BD's superior storage capacity - it needs it.

But, you can just state that I'm merely being petty about the whole thing, and crying over spilt milk. I liked a lot of the features on HD DVD, and will buy what's available that I like, and continue to do so.

I'm disappointed that Warner chose the format that will, in the end harm consumers the most. I can't wait for the first BD+ title to come out that scrambles every player it touches. It's just a matter of time and I can only hope it happens sooner than later, because nothing will sway the masses as much as that sort of story would. Unfortunately, I fear the timing will be such as to kill off all HDM, because it will be too late.

3 to 1 happy. Good ratio.

I'm dancing in the street.

HD DVD is the best for consumers. Sony & Blu-Ray is evil. They've been lying through their teeth ever since the format came out.

But first, we'll sit around and whine until the Panny bd50 is out. No self respecting red ant will buy either a PS3 or a non Profile 2.0 player. :p

+1

I'm not really happy it's over. I would have liked for the prices to drop even further. :)

But then again, a single format is the only way to go. I'm just sad that there's no Blu-ray player for me to buy today. It's a waiting game again. The BD50 looks promising though...

John

HD DVD is the best for consumers. Sony & Blu-Ray is evil. They've been lying through their teeth ever since the format came out.
http://diendan.dethi.com/vi/uploads/News/pic/1181230307.nv.gif

One format is always better than two. Surprised how many fanboys are still whining and mourning when it's already Day 6 since the announcement. Time for everyone to move on.

Yes, I only have HD-DVD and wish to move on. It's over. I'll play the discs I have for now and however long my player lasts and look to get a Blu-ray player eventually--maybe starting with the PS3 80g? I don't think I'd consider a dual format player for anything more than 500-maybe 400. A week of searching the internet for a "thread of hope". It's just not there.

Red to Blu--Sorry for the defection.

When I can walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, Target or go to Amazon and buy the Blu-ray versions of Batman Begins, The Ultimate Matrix Collection and 300

http://www.highdefdigest.com/news/show/Warner/Warner:_Profile_1.1_Blu-ray_Titles_Coming_Soon/1340

I'm not lamenting the loss of the format war. I'm lamenting the loss of region freedom. That's the real travesty.

Hell yes, I'm so stoked that this format war crap is coming down to the end. I'm a broke college student about to get married so when I invest in HDM, I wanna get something that will stick around for a while.

It's all about money. Pure and simple. Whomever pays the most will get the major studios to commit to their format and will win. Right now it looks like Sony.

Has there ever been anything good come out of a free market society when there is only one choice? Why do you think Sony has such an interest (as well as Toshiba) in securing the market? Control is everything. Cable would love to knock out the Dish guys and vice versa.

I agree this is long from over. I am probably not as well informed as most here, but I can tell you ( as another post pointed out) that pricing will not be in the "joe average" sweet spot for some time. The studios could care less about the consumer (as evidenced in the ridiculous arry of screen formats - widescreen, anamorphic widescreen, 1.85:1, OAR, and so on) that's enough to set any Wal-Mart shopper's head spinning.

That is why I have not made a choice on which way to go yet-- on the sidelines observing. I, like many here, cannot afford to make a "mistake" when choosing which format I buy my DVDs in. $40 for a DVD is a real investment for me. As a result I have spent $0 on this whole thing and am still living in an SD world. And I am sure, judging by some of the others here, I am not alone.

What will be interesting is how this all shakes out since some AV media sources have already hinted at the fact that this may all become a moot battle if the average consumer becomes too confused and worn out with the whole HDM thing. I am sure that both Sony and Toshiba know they cannot recoup their investment selling only to the high end AV officinado. And unlike the format battle of disc versus tape (VHS) this is a quality of format issue. An issue that, as another post pointed out here, will most likely be lost on most average consumers. Reach the right price point and everything turns around.

I just don't have much hope that this is a good thing-- the BD victory. As I said, I am very curious how they will market this whole deal-- price points, selling the technology to "joe average" etc.

Should be verrrrrrrrrry interesting. I can wait.

Yes.

Time to get back to equipment discussions between manufacturers NOT DIFFERENT FORMATS.You can always run along and go do that in the equipment forums.

Nope Its not over. Its going to be along time before its over.
agreed

I disagree. The war is winding down - not over. I picked up an A35 for Christmas - I was actually looking forward to having access to the HD-DVD libary from Paramount. I struggled for the last two weeks over this return.

After the news from Warner and the TOTAL absence of any real comment from Toshiba re same, I took it back yesterday and will invest the $500 (including tax and movies I returned) into OTHER technology.

My initial investment was a PS3 as my venture into the "war" and that will remain my investment for now. I honestly think the Blu/Red war may be over but Blu-Ray is far from being a winner. In fact I think we are all losers with discs still $29.99 at Target etc.

I have no intention of buying a new Blu-Ray player at $400 or more until they have their standard of BD-J and the 2.0 standard down in stone.

I purchased an Integra 8.8 receiver to decode the new "advanced codecs" and loved seeing the TrueHD indicator light up. My PS3 will never do that but it does play PS3 games, surfs the web, plays Blu in PCM and operates a heck of a lot faster than any standalone player made to date. My 8.8 opens an old door to pre-HD material I also forgot - that lovely Reon Processor that will envigorate my old Laser Disc collection. I look forward to seeing oldies like the "Original" Starwars THX box set in its raw form now upscaled to 1080p.

Until we have a viable catalog of all the studios on one format I am happy that the current format war is "decided" (not over) but not happy that:
1) Paramount/Universal/Dreamworks haven't tossed in the towel.
2) The present studios' never ending delay in the Blu camp to release more of their catalogs at a faster rate, and
3) The sky high price for even an entry level Blu-ray player.

Until then the war rages down to a known close and we all wait and wait and wait for HD to be mainstream. Now where should I spend my $500.00? Won't be on Blu-Ray media I can tell you that - unless of course I could buy a new THX box set that is. For now it's Netflix for me.

The format war is over but the wrong format won. ;) With blu-ray HDM will always be a niche market. HD DVD's twin disc could have won the mass market. So I guess the prices will stay higher, we will see less innovations, and I expect a huge renaissance of BD25 in 2008. I hope this end of the format war is not the beginning of the end of all HDM.

I disagree. The war is winding down - not over. I picked up an A35 for Christmas - I was actually looking forward to having access to the HD-DVD libary from Paramount. I struggled for the last two weeks over this return.

After the news from Warner and the TOTAL absence of any real comment from Toshiba re same, I took it back yesterday and will invest the $500 (including tax and movies I returned) into OTHER technology.

My initial investment was a PS3 as my venture into the "war" and that will remain my investment for now. I honestly think the Blu/Red war may be over but Blu-Ray is far from being a winner. In fact I think we are all losers with discs still $29.99 at Target etc.

I have no intention of buying a new Blu-Ray player at $400 or more until they have their standard of BD-J and the 2.0 standard down in stone.

I purchased an Integra 8.8 receiver to decode the new "advanced codecs" and loved seeing the TrueHD indicator light up. My PS3 will never do that but it does play PS3 games, surfs the web, plays Blu in PCM and operates a heck of a lot faster than any standalone player made to date. My 8.8 opens an old door to pre-HD material I also forgot - that lovely Reon Processor that will envigorate my old Laser Disc collection. I look forward to seeing oldies like the "Original" Starwars THX box set in its raw form now upscaled to 1080p.

Until we have a viable catalog of all the studios on one format I am happy that the current format war is "decided" (not over) but not happy that:
1) Paramount/Universal/Dreamworks haven't tossed in the towel.
2) The present studios' never ending delay in the Blu camp to release more of their catalogs at a faster rate, and
3) The sky high price for even an entry level Blu-ray player.

Until then the war rages down to a known close and we all wait and wait and wait for HD to be mainstream. Now where should I spend my $500.00? Won't be on Blu-Ray media I can tell you that - unless of course I could buy a new THX box set that is. For now it's Netflix for me.
i agree somewhat but the fat lady is walking up to the mic she just has not
belted a note out as of yet.

+1
I believe it should have been up to the consumer to decide, not a movie studio.

The "war" is between HDM and DVD.
The reason I voted no is that I am fairly confidant Blu-Ray cannot defeat DVD in the long run and will end up pushing HDM physical medium to niche.
HD DVD has the long term potential to replace DVD with its Twin format completely.

HD DVD's twin disc could have won the mass market.

Except that the "twin disc" was a huge failure. It added a $5 dvd to your purchase whether you wanted it or not.

In fact I bet a lot of consumers were comparing the more expensive twin discs to their BD counterparts and went Blu just because of that.

The consumers chose the victor of this war as made clear by the sales numbers.

Except that the "twin disc" was a huge failure. It added a $5 dvd to your purchase whether you wanted it or not.

In fact I bet a lot of consumers were comparing the more expensive twin discs to their BD counterparts and went Blu just because of that.

The consumers chose the victor of this war as made clear by the sales numbers.


You confuse "Twin" with Combo. Combo's, often called "flippers", have two seperate SD and HD DVD sides glued together. Twins have no glue and simply have all needed layers readable by either DVD or HD DVD players automatically based on which they are capable of reading.

Imagine how the headlines would change tomorrow if Universal announced its next major release would only be on a Twin (No seperate HD DVD and DVD sku). I cannot predict the future, but it is an interesting strategy for which Blu would have absolutely no response.

You also seem to insinuate that consumers chose this for which most all of us blu and red alike can laugh at just a little I think since we know corporate money seems to have had just a bit to do with things.

I also wonder if people pause to think what Uni or Paramount gain in jumping ship now. Wouldn't they be a bit better off asking Toshiba for a few hundred million in "Promotional Considerations" for their loyalty to bolster sales of all their upcoming DVD's since that is 99% of the market now and I don't see that changing much at 350+ for a player even if Blu had all studios. I bet you those returns would far outweigh the profit to be had from moving to Blu now rather than a year from now when everything would have shifted again with millions of HD DVD players in consumers hands.

After all, at $129 for a player with 7 movies free almost anyone can afford to player Uni and Paramount flicks...

The "war" is between HDM and DVD.
The reason I voted no is that I am fairly confidant Blu-Ray cannot defeat DVD in the long run and will end up pushing HDM physical medium to niche.
HD DVD has the long term potential to replace DVD with its Twin format completely.Who cares?

As long as we get HD releases of every new title it doesnt matter. BD can stay a niche market, does the fact that HDTV is a niche market stop you all from getting that sweet new plasma or lcd TV?

You confuse "Twin" with Combo. Combo's, often called "flippers", have two seperate SD and HD DVD sides glued together. Twins have no glue and simply have all needed layers readable by either DVD or HD DVD players automatically based on which they are capable of reading.

Imagine how the headlines would change tomorrow if Universal announced its next major release would only be on a Twin (No seperate HD DVD and DVD sku). I cannot predict the future, but it is an interesting strategy for which Blu would have absolutely no response. Twin discs as the standard and at the same price could have made a difference. Such a shame HD DVD is such an incomplete format :(

Am I happy its looks to be over? Dont care
Am I happy the way things are turning out? nope, since HD DVD is cheaper and IMHO alot of occasions better.

Now why dont I care that it looks to be over? Because from day 1 I was planning to go neutral. Being a Gamer and loving what HD DVD brings to the market.

all in all im still going to continue to support HD DVD over BR though, but then thats my choice :)

In the long run it makes both sides better and cheaper. Look at how it turned out for DVD+/-R as a good example.

I think there was enough room for both sides to coexist and when the price of adding both to one drive/player comes down to less than $200 no one would care anyhow. Thankfully both are physically the same size and use the same laser just aimed differently and read slightly differently (both of which can be handled with minor hardware/software fixes), so it's not like VHS/Beta. Without HD-DVD the prices would not be as low as they are today for both sides, nor would we have seen the quality improve so much for both.

The war is over? Last time I checked, Warner is still releasing HD DVDs until may. HD-A3s are flying off the shelves now that they are price at 129-150. My best buy still has one shelf HD DVD and one shelf BR.

It is not over. We have a long way to go yet. Don't buy into the media hype.

Actual consumer demand will be the final factor in the end much to the studios's disbelief.

The "war" is between HDM and DVD.
The reason I voted no is that I am fairly confidant Blu-Ray cannot defeat DVD in the long run and will end up pushing HDM physical medium to niche.
HD DVD has the long term potential to replace DVD with its Twin format completely.

agreed on the first part. I think online HD will kill them both in the end. but I am pulling for HD DVD myself as an HTPC enthusiast.

The war is over? Last time I checked, Warner is still releasing HD DVDs until may. HD-A3s are flying off the shelves now that they are price at 129-150. My best buy still has one shelf HD DVD and one shelf BR.

It is not over. We have a long way to go yet. Don't buy into the media hype.

Actual consumer demand will be the final factor in the end much to the studios's disbelief.

Is there any Amazon link where we can see sales statistics for HDDVD and BluRay movies/players that are being currently sold right now?

The war is over? Last time I checked, Warner is still releasing HD DVDs until may. HD-A3s are flying off the shelves now that they are price at 129-150. My best buy still has one shelf HD DVD and one shelf BR.

It is not over. We have a long way to go yet. Don't buy into the media hype.

Actual consumer demand will be the final factor in the end much to the studios's disbelief.

Toshiba is at least making a pretextual commitment to the format.

Toshiba To Launch Ad Campaigns, Pricing Strategies For HD DVD
January 14, 2008
DOW JONES NEWSWIRES

Toshiba Corp.'s (6502.TO) Toshiba America Inc. unit said it will increase its marketing campaign this month for HD DVD, following the recent move of Warner Bros. and other studios to the Blu-ray format. The maker of HD DVDs said it will launch joint advertising campaigns with studios and "extended pricing strategies" will begin in mid-January. Time Warner Inc.'s (TWX) Warner Bros. Entertainment announced earlier this month plans to produce DVDs exclusively in Blu-ray format. General Electric Co.'s (GE) Universal Studios and Viacom Inc.'s (VIA) Paramount Pictures support the HD DVD format, while Sony Corp. (SNE), Walt Disney Co. (DIS) and News Corp.'s (NWS) Twentieth Century Fox have exclusive Blu-ray production deals.

* * *

That said, the war is over and I'm delighted, first that it is over, and second, because the format I adopted prevailed and I need not list it on eBay.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=friS4OOcdgQ

HAHA, thats funny. frank D will like that.

I don't understand how everyone (aka all of the pre-existing Blu-ray backers) can sit there and spout off the "Get over it. Blu-ray won. Accept it." and so forth. I'm assuming a great number of them are Americans and I'd be willing to be that a great number of those Americans didn't vote for George Bush. I seem to remember lots of backlash about his second term in office, even to this day, with people going on and on about how they "didn't vote for him" and such.

How is this any different? I, and many, many others, didn't vote for Blu-ray. Blu-ray "winning" doesn't make me happy. Blu-ray doesn't represent what I want in a high definition media format.

When I can walk into Best Buy, Circuit City, Target or go to Amazon and buy the Blu-ray versions of Batman Begins, The Ultimate Matrix Collection and 300 (all for instance and not all-inclusive) that have the EXACT same features and functionality as their superior HD DVD versions (for those movies that DO exist on Blu-ray)...that's the day I buy a Blu-ray player and "accept" it as my HDM format.

Good post. +1

Not that I have sour grapes mind you:p
But I have been a RED fan because as a movie enthusiast I really appreciated the fact that HD-DVD was region free.
I would rather not have to deal with the hassles that are inherent to trying to find/hope they make a Region hackable /free Hi Def Blu player someday.:(
Enough of that crap with VHS's Pal/Ntsc/Seacam systems,then DVD'a darn Region codes,that werent really necessary.:mad:

And the fact that it cost twice to three times as much just to get into the game,leaves Blu out of my and manys reach:(

I just want to get back to buying movies. Before the entire HD/Blu-Ray thing, I was buying something like 1-2 titles a week. I have bought 1 new DVD over the last year and a half.

Maybe the format war has hurt the consumers, but I suspect it hurt retailers and the studios more. Ultimately I don't think I was 'hurt' by anything. In fact, it saved me hundreds of dollars. Maybe over a thousand. The one effect it has had on me, though, is that I don't think I'll be going back to my earlier habit of buying so many films, but will be limiting my purchase only to those films that I think will benefit the most from high def.

Is there any Amazon link where we can see sales statistics for HDDVD and BluRay movies/players that are being currently sold right now?
Here is the average Amazon SalesRank for the top 100 Blu-Ray and HD DVD movies. Blu-Ray is ~379, HD DVD is ~1778. Currently there are no BOGO sales for either format, and most titles on both formats are on sale. Demand is simply just higher for Blu-Ray titles on Amazon.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/salesrank100-time-1-1-recent144.jpg

Here is the average Amazon SalesRank for the top 100 Blu-Ray and HD DVD movies. Blu-Ray is ~379, HD DVD is ~1778. Currently there are no BOGO sales for either format, and most titles on both formats are on sale. Demand is simply just higher for Blu-Ray titles on Amazon.

http://www.eproductwars.com/dvd/graphs/salesrank100-time-1-1-recent144.jpg

Sales only show so much. I rent most of mine. I only buy the ones that I will watch over and over. HD DVD players have been coming with 7+ movies out the door when you buy it. I got mine with 4 in hand and 5 in the mail. The bluray offer is in the mail only so you are kinda forced to buy a few right away unless you want to wait 2-3 months for the free ones.

I think that is part of the reason. Numbers can be manipulated and interpreted a million different ways and Amazon is not the only reseller of HD DVDs.

I am really indifferent but did benefit from it with a 99 dollar HD-DVD player. It looks like Toshiba is making a stand in the desert with lower prices so the consumer is still winning due to this war.

I am really indifferent but did benefit from it with a 99 dollar HD-DVD player. It looks like Toshiba is making a stand in the desert with lower prices so the consumer is still winning due to this war.


But on the flip side they will lose by chosing HD DVD since they will have very few movie choices to buy now that the studio support for HD DVD is drying up.

Sure having a cheap player was nice when the battle was on, but now all a cheap player will be mainly good for is playing a few HD DVD's and upconvert SD movies....many will think that's a cool idea, but I'd rather just invest in one machine that in time will handle all HDM PLUS SD....

But on the flip side they will lose by chosing HD DVD since they will have very few movie choices to buy now that the studio support for HD DVD is drying up.

Sure having a cheap player was nice when the battle was on, but now all a cheap player will be mainly good for is playing a few HD DVD's and upconvert SD movies....many will think that's a cool idea, but I'd rather just invest in one machine that in time will handle all HDM PLUS SD....

Maybe you should do a little research first... fanboy. Bluray cannot play matrix, transformers and a host of others. What you do not take into account is that HD DVD is region free. There are 461 Bluray release last time I checked. There are only 401 HD DVD releases, BUT HD DVDs are region free unlike Blu-ray. For instance, I have resident evil 1 & 2 on HD DVD. Where did I get it from? An online retailer from Europe. It still has the same english tracks. Many Blu-ray only movies are released in Europe in HD DVD as well. Currently, I have 1000 movies about to me on HD DVD worldwide which is more than 2x what Blu-ray has.

And you know.. you can still get Spiderman 3 just in SD. Or you can watch it on Comcast HD... or you could even watch it in the theater as 6000P+.

But on the flip side they will lose by chosing HD DVD since they will have very few movie choices to buy now that the studio support for HD DVD is drying up.

Sure having a cheap player was nice when the battle was on, but now all a cheap player will be mainly good for is playing a few HD DVD's and upconvert SD movies....many will think that's a cool idea, but I'd rather just invest in one machine that in time will handle all HDM PLUS SD....

The HD-DVD catalog currently is nearly as big as the BluRay catalog and it isnt like the player will magically stop working the day the last HD-DVD movie is shipped.

If you invest in a BluRay player now how long will it be before you have access to the list of HD-DVD exclusive titles? For 100 bucks you can buy into that list without having to wait months or years.

That is why I dont understand people rushing to return their HD-DVD players. HD-DVD has legs through 08 and depending on the remaining two studios it could go on indefinately, with a smaller share of the total movie catalog of course.

The HD-DVD catalog currently is nearly as big as the BluRay catalog and it isnt like the player will magically stop working the day the last HD-DVD movie is shipped.

If you invest in a BluRay player now how long will it be before you have access to the list of HD-DVD exclusive titles? For 100 bucks you can buy into that list without having to wait months or years.

That is why I dont understand people rushing to return their HD-DVD players. HD-DVD has legs through 08 and depending on the remaining two studios it could go on indefinately, with a smaller share of the total movie catalog of course.

possibly looking at long term and more than 2 studio support it has a way
of playing on people.

possibly looking at long term and more than 2 studio support it has a way
of playing on people.

I'd honestly be surprised if the avg joe even knows there is a difference between the two formats, much less know which studio's support which format. Not all people are as informed as the people on this msgboard.

This probably plays even more true the less the price of a unit is. It becomes an impulse buy, something viewed as a toss away item.

possibly looking at long term and more than 2 studio support it has a way
of playing on people.

1000 HD DVDs available worldwide region free versus 500 BR US regioned disks. HD DVD actually has more.

I'd honestly be surprised if the avg joe even knows there is a difference between the two formats, much less know which studio's support which format. Not all people are as informed as the people on this msgboard.

This probably plays even more true the less the price of a unit is. It becomes an impulse buy, something viewed as a toss away item.

Exactly. And with HD players now going for well under $200 and approaching the $99 price point. They are selling fast. The local Costco can't keep the D3 in stock at $129. They said they are getting backordered. When enough units are produced it is very possible that Warner Brother may extend their termination date. They are not contracted to stop in may.. i was only an anouncement. They could extend because of consumer demand still save face.

You absolutely right about average Joe. My sister in law bought my brother an HD DVD disk for christmas not realizing it wont play in a DVD player.

If the Panny BD50 tests reasonably well, I'll go Blu or purple anyway but not before.

Hey there, my Red brothers, like they say "get over it!" It's business and I don't think HDDVD can pull it out, but it was fun while it lasted. That doesn't mean that any of us have to buy some POS BD player. We can wait a bit until something decent comes out - and rest assured, it will come out. Even if HDM becomes a niche product, are you really going back to SD? Come on now. I'm not but when I buy my BD I'd like a good upconverter, since I may still need to watch SD's . Why is it that BD can't seem to do that? It surely has nothing to do with the format. Yet BD can't seem to get a thumbs up from any professional reviews on their upconvert ability.

Oddly, enough, I think the most important thing I learned was that I really need a new display, but that's another story.

That is why I dont understand people rushing to return their HD-DVD players. HD-DVD has legs through 08 and depending on the remaining two studios it could go on indefinately, with a smaller share of the total movie catalog of course.
Unless Toshiba continues to pay the 2 remaining studios why would they stay?

I'd honestly be surprised if the avg joe even knows there is a difference between the two formats, much less know which studio's support which format. Not all people are as informed as the people on this msgboard.

This probably plays even more true the less the price of a unit is. It becomes an impulse buy, something viewed as a toss away item.

They don't have to know. The WM/BB/CC employees are clueless about what they sell. But even they know about the WB announcement.

Do you really think they will keep this tidbit of information under wraps?

They are not commissioned salespeople, they arent having to "push" HD DVD.

If a customer asks "what is the difference" don't you think one having 70% and the other having 30% studio support will matter to that customer?

Unless Toshiba continues to pay the 2 remaining studios why would they stay?

Even if they are paid, it just doesnt make much sense. Tosh has money sure, but why would they stand pat?

Sure revenue isnt there at this point, but cooler heads will prevail. We just need to be a little patient.

Unless Toshiba continues to pay the 2 remaining studios why would they stay?

Lower distribution costs for DVD, HD-DVD, and Combi discs. Unless Blu takes off in a big way, they heven't much to lose. The owners of DVD/HD-DVD lines, presumably Universal owns a substantial intrest here, don't want to see their assets decine in value too quickly. Around a million HD-DVD players are sold.

Will any of that make much differnce...???

Lower distribution costs for DVD, HD-DVD, and Combi discs. Unless Blu takes off in a big way, they heven't much to lose. The owners of DVD/HD-DVD lines, presumably Universal owns a substantial intrest here, don't want to see their assets decine in value too quickly. Around a million HD-DVD players are sold.

Will any of that make much differnce...???

+1

Not to mention if cheaper, finished players are still a priority to Universal and Paramount HD DVD is still their best bet. The $200 profile 2.0 BD player is still about a year or more away from the looks of it.

I don't think these studios are making enough on HD discs at all to warrant unwavering support simply based on profit. If they were, we wouldn't see them switching sides so easily.

Voted no. I see a Blu-ray win as not a win for mass market acceptance, but rather a concession that HDM is a niche product for the next 5-10 years that is only there to add some incremental high margin sales to the CE and media companies.

I typically only buy combo disks, that will continue until all of my players are upgraded to HDM, so I see any "win" by an incompatible format as a loss for mass market adoption of HDM.

make your own decision at your local retailer but i was at best buy this morning and
a whole isle is devoted to blu-ray now double the space before christmas to me the
way i remember it dvd started this way.