Samsung announced to world on Jan 6th its 2008 series of DLP displays.


http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/samsung_lcdtv_front.jpg
http://gizmodo.com/assets/resources/2008/01/samsung_lcd_twoshot.jpg

The Series 6 DLP HDTVs include the models HL50A650 (50 inches), HL56A650 (56 inches), HL61A650 (61 inches) and HL72A650 (72 inches).

The Series 7 LED DLP HDTVs include the HL61A750 (61 inches) and HL67A750 (67 inches - expected June 2008).

Press Links:
Gizmoto - Samsung Sticks With Rear-Screen Projectors, Shows New Series 6 and 7 Sets (http://gizmodo.com/341088/samsung-sticks-with-rear+screen-projectors-shows-new-series-6-and-7-sets)
Engadget HD - Samsung sticks by RPTV, intros HL67A750A / HL56A650A (http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/01/06/samsung-sticks-by-rptv-intros-hl67a750a-hl56a650a/)
Luminus - Luminus Devices Previews Third Generation of LED-Powered DLP® HDTVs from Samsung's 2008 Line-Up (http://www.luminus.com/content1242)
Hometechanswers - Samsung Series 6 DLP HDTV - 4 New Models for 2008 (http://www.hometechanswers.com/hdtv/hdtvnewsblog/archives/707)
Hometechanswers - Samsung Series 7 LED DLP HDTV - 2 New Models for 2008 (http://www.hometechanswers.com/hdtv/hdtvnewsblog/archives/708)


Vendor text
SAMSUNG'S NEW DLP HDTVS LEAD THE WAY WITH IMPROVED FUNCTIONALITY, ENERGY EFFICIENCY AND LOWER COST OF OWNERSHIP
Commitment to Advanced LED Technology and Enhanced Connectivity Make the New DLP™ HDTV Line-up a Remarkable Consumer Value

LAS VEGAS, January 6, 2008 - Expanding on last year's introduction of the world's first 3D-ready DLP HDTVs, Samsung Electronics continues its commitment to offering consumers choice, value, leading product designs and innovation within the DLP HDTV category by announcing its 2008 ―Series 6 and 7‖ line-up today. With a strategic focus on product performance and design, cost of ownership and energy efficiency, Samsung enters 2008 with excitement and vigor in regards to the company's leading position in the DLP category.

The new Series 6 and Series 7 DLP HDTVs offer consumers increased value while integrating innovative features that lead Samsung's portfolio of Micro Display and Flat Panel HDTV offerings for 2008. The Series 6 and 7 DLP HDTVs not only feature larger screens and Full HD 1080p clarity for sports, movies and gaming, they also offer the latest in networking and 3D technologies. Samsung's DLP HDTV lineup will be on display at Booth #11033 during the International Consumer Electronics Show held at the Las Vegas Convention Center, January 7 through 10.

Samsung is steadfastly committed to remaining a leader in the DLP space in 2008 and beyond with a strong investment in product development fueling the consistent introduction of innovative and affordable DLP HDTVs,‖ said Steve Panosian, director of Visual Display Marketing at Samsung Electronics America.

Building on the success of our innovative technology, we've incorporated several new upgrades, such as WiseLink 2.0 (USB) and HDMI V1.3 for enhanced connectivity, allowing consumers to access a wide range of content through their TVs. In addition, DLP has been proven to be an energy efficient HDTV category, and Samsung continues to focus on making DLP the most energy efficient possible.

Consumers will also enjoy a total 3-D experience, with the finest in sound and picture resolution,‖ added Panosian.

The 2008 6 and 7 series DLP TV will feature built-in 3-D technology and entertainment modes that automatically optimize both audio and video quality to deliver the best movie, sports, and gaming experience possible. The new remote design includes dedicated ―Entertainment Mode‖ buttons making split-second adjustments possible. Samsung's 3D-technology co-marketing plans include a starter kit accessory acclimating even novice users to this unique application.

Series 6 DLP HDTV Housed in a slim cabinet with a narrow bezel, the Series 6's hidden speakers make it aesthetically pleasing, as well as technologically advanced. Multimedia users will enjoy easy functionality with portable devices. MP3 players, PMPs, and thumb drives can all be used via the HDTV's WiseLink USB 2.0 input, while three HDMI-CEC side ports make it easy to plug in Blu-ray, HD-DVD players, HD camcorders and game consoles for immediate use. The Series 6 DLP HDTVs will be available in April and June in the following sizes: 50-inches, 56-inches, 61-inches and 72-inches (Model numbers: HL50A650, HL56A650, HL61A650 and HL72A650). Series 7 LED DLP HDTV

Samsung's Series 7 DLP HDTV has one of the most environmentally conscious designs on the market today. Consumers will find that this series' new Cinema Pure™ Color Engine powered by the long-lasting Generation 2.4 LED consistently outperforms its traditional lamp-based counterparts, delivering outstanding picture quality and continuous light output rated at over 60,000 hours.

Energy Star® compliance addresses efficiency while these state of the art HDTVs consumes approximately half the power of a 60-inch class plasma HDTV. This new LED DLP sets typically do not require interval lamp replacement and combined with low power consumption results in a lower cost of ownership for the consumer. At the same time, the Series 7 DLP HDTVs improve brightness by more than 40 percent and offer a wider color gamut for delivering a cinematic experience beyond other display technologies --all while using only 230 watts of power, resulting in both a

Greener HDTV -- energy consumption and cost of ownership message to the consumer. Adding to the functionality of our Series 7 DLP TVs is Simplay HDMI compliance, a new Remote with specially designed hot keys, and a new simplified user interface and menu system. The result of these enhancements enables control over all HDMI-CEC-compatible A/V devices for a simplified total system convenience experience. WiseLink 2.0 (USB) with codec support for MP3 and JPEG enables consumers to easily access files from their portable media and display the files on a brilliant big screen HDTV. The Series 7 DLP TVs will also feature a 1 Tuner PIP function. The Series 7 LED DLP HDTVs will be available in April and June in both 61-inches and 67-inches (Model numbers HL61A750 and HL67A750).

About Samsung Electronics America, Inc. Headquartered in Ridgefield Park, NJ, Samsung Electronics America, Inc. (SEA), a wholly owned subsidiary of Samsung Electronics Co., Ltd., markets a broad range of award-winning, advanced digital consumer electronics and home appliance products, including HDTVs, home theater systems, MP3 players, refrigerators and laundry machines. A recognized innovation leader in consumer electronics design and technology, Samsung is the HDTV market leader in the U.S. and is the only manufacturer that produces all four major digital television technologies. Please visit www.samsung.com for more information.

50" Widescreen DLP HDTV with 1080p
Model Number: HL50A650 (http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/03/26/hl50a650c1fxza/hl50a650_spec.pdf)
Click to enlarge
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MSRP: $1899.99

TV/Video
• Slim bezel (0.6"), “piano black” cabinet
• Slim depth – fits where others won’t™
• Samsung Cinema Smooth™ 1080p light engine:
- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter
for all inputs
- Single-panel DLP® design—crystal-clear picture
without any possibility of convergence errors
- Smooth, film-like images and ultra-quiet
operation
• Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with
Clear QAM (digital cable)
• Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)
• Single user interface for easy menu surfing
• Entertainment mode
• 3D ready—Future-proof your HD experience
Audio
• Watts per channel: 10W x 2
• SRS TruSurround XT™
• Hidden speaker system (DACS™)
Connections
• 3 HDMI inputs
- 480p/720p/1080i/1080p (60Hz/30Hz/24Hz)
input support
- HDMI with universal CEC system control
- Simplay certified
• 2-component video inputs
(480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p)
• 1 S-video input
• 2 A/V composite inputs
• Wiselink® USB 2.0
• PC (RGB/HDMI) input with 1080p Input Support
• RS232C interface for system control

56" Widescreen DLP HDTV with 1080p
Model Number: HL56A650 (http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/03/26/hl56a650c1fxza/hl56a650_spec.pdf)
Click to enlarge
Printer friendly page
MSRP: $2099.99

TV/Video
• Slim bezel (0.6"), “piano black” cabinet
• Slim depth – fits where others won’t™
• Samsung Cinema Smooth™ 1080p light engine:
- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter
for all inputs
- Single-panel DLP® design—crystal-clear picture
without any possibility of convergence errors
- Smooth, film-like images and ultra-quiet
operation
• Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with
Clear QAM (digital cable)
• Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)
• Single user interface for easy menu surfing
• Entertainment mode
• 3D ready—Future-proof your HD experience
Audio
• Watts per channel: 10W x 2
• SRS TruSurround XT™
• Hidden speaker system (DACS™)
Connections
• 3 HDMI inputs
- 480p/720p/1080i/1080p (60Hz/30Hz/24Hz)
input support
- HDMI with universal CEC system control
- Simplay certified
• 2-component video inputs
(480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p)
• 1 S-video input
• 2 A/V composite inputs
• Wiselink® USB 2.0
• PC (RGB/HDMI) input with 1080p Input Support
• RS232C interface for system control
Net dimensions and weight
(WxHxD)
TV (w/o foot): 50.4" x 34.9" x 13.4"
TV weight: 60.6 lbs.
TV (w/ foot): 50.4" x 34.9" x 14.0"

61" Widescreen DLP HDTV with 1080p
Model Number: HL61A650 (http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/03/26/hl61a650c1fxza/hl61a650_spec.pdf)
Click to enlarge
Printer friendly page
MSRP: $2299.99

TV/Video
• Slim bezel (0.6"), “piano black” cabinet
• Slim depth – fits where others won’t™
• Samsung Cinema Smooth™ 1080p light engine:
- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter
for all inputs
- Single-panel DLP® design—crystal-clear picture
without any possibility of convergence errors
- Smooth, film-like images and ultra-quiet
operation
• Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with
Clear QAM (digital cable)
• Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)
• Single user interface for easy menu surfing
• Entertainment mode
• 3D ready—Future-proof your HD experience
Audio
• Watts per channel: 10W x 2
• SRS TruSurround XT™
• Hidden speaker system (DACS™)
Connections
• 3 HDMI inputs
- 480p/720p/1080i/1080p (60Hz/30Hz/24Hz)
input support
- HDMI with universal CEC system control
- Simplay certified
• 2-component video inputs
(480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p)
• 1 S-video input
• 2 A/V composite inputs
• Wiselink® USB 2.0
• PC (RGB/HDMI) input with 1080p Input Support
• RS232C interface for system control
Net dimensions and weight
(WxHxD)
TV (w/o foot): 54.8" x 37.7" x 14.3"
TV weight: 68.8 lbs.
TV (w/ foot): 54.8" x 37.7" x 15.4"

61" LED Powered DLP HDTV with 1080p
Model Number: HL61A750 (http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/03/26/hl61a750a1fxza/hl61a750_spec.pdf)
Click to enlarge
Printer friendly page
MSRP: $2699.99

TV/Video
• “Piano Key Black” cabinet
• Slim depth and slim bezel (0.6") – fits where
others won’t™
• 1 Tuner Picture-in-Picture
• Samsung CinemaPure™ Color Engine:
- Reliable LED solid state illumination for long life
and up to 40% more color and 40% brightness
improvement
- Built-in light sensor with beam current feedback
insures stable light output over the life of the TV
- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter
for all inputs and TV sources
- Single-panel DLP® design—crystal-clear picture
without any possibility of convergence errors
- Smooth, high detail film-like image
• Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with
Clear QAM (local channel digital cable capable)
• Single user interface for easy menu surfing
• Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)
• Entertainment mode custom picture settings
• 3D ready—Future-proof your HD experience
Audio
• Watts per channel: 10W x 2
• SRS TruSurround XT™
• Hidden speaker system (DACS™)
Connections
• 3 HDMI inputs
- 480i/480p/1080i/1080p
(60Hz/30Hz/24Hz) input support
- HDMI with universal CEC system control
- Simplay certified for cross component
compatibility
• 2-component video inputs
(480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p)
• 2 S-video inputs
• 2 A/V composite inputs
• Wiselink® USB 2.0
• PC (RGB/HDMI) input with 1080p Input Support
• RS232C port for system control
Net dimensions and weight
(WxHxD)
TV (w/o foot): 54.8" x 37.8" x 14.4"
TV weight: 70.1 lbs.
TV (w/ foot): 54.8" x 37.8" x 15.4"

67" LED Powered DLP HDTV with 1080p
Model Number: HL67A750 (http://www.samsung.com/us/system/consumer/product/2008/05/16/hl67a750a1fxza/HL67A750_spec.pdf)
Click to enlarge
Printer friendly page
MSRP: $3199.99

TV/Video
• “Piano Key Black” cabinet
• Slim depth and slim bezel (0.6") – fits where
others won’t™
• 1 Tuner Picture-in-Picture
• Samsung CinemaPure™ Color Engine:
- Reliable LED solid state illumination for long life
and up to 40% more color and 40% brightness
improvement
- Built-in light sensor with beam current feedback
insures stable light output over the life of the TV
- Full HD 1920 x 1080p digital format converter
for all inputs and TV sources
- Single-panel DLP® design—crystal-clear picture
without any possibility of convergence errors
- Smooth, high detail film-like image
• Analog and full digital NTSC/ATSC Tuners with
Clear QAM (local channel digital cable capable)
• Single user interface for easy menu surfing
• Energy Star® Compliant (0.8 Watt standby)
• Entertainment mode custom picture settings
• 3D ready—Future-proof your HD experience
Audio
• Watts per channel: 10W x 2
• SRS TruSurround XT™
• Hidden speaker system (DACS™)
Connections
• 3 HDMI inputs
- 480i/480p/1080i/1080p
(60Hz/30Hz/24Hz) input support
- HDMI with universal CEC system control
- Simplay certified for cross component
compatibility
• 2-component video inputs
(480i/480p/720p/1080i/1080p)
• 2 S-video inputs
• 2 A/V composite inputs
• Wiselink® USB 2.0
• PC (RGB/HDMI) input with 1080p Input Support
• RS232C port for system control

So basically, Samsung is seeing some of the writing on the wall for RP and not trying to keep 2 lines of LED TVs, one line missing "basic" (at Sammy DLP price points IMO) features like HDMI 1.3 and PIP. But they are also introducing larger screen sizes (67") and dropping everything below 61", presumably to keep the price points high, at least temporarily.

I'm looking forward to these sets and will bite if I see the types of prices I saw this year on LED around the holidays. Pending reviews, of course.

Samsung's 3D-technology co-marketing plans include a starter kit accessory acclimating even novice users to this unique application.

Could someone at CES verify what this means? The package you used to have to buy seperately for 3D may now be included?

There's no mention of 120Hz or Auto-Motion... I was really hoping the newest sets would all have something like that.

But they were 120Hz last year, so that should still be there.

So basically, Samsung is seeing some of the writing on the wall for RP and not trying to keep 2 lines of LED TVs, one line missing "basic" (at Sammy DLP price points IMO) features like HDMI 1.3 and PIP. But they are also introducing larger screen sizes (67") and dropping everything below 61", presumably to keep the price points high, at least temporarily.

I'm looking forward to these sets and will bite if I see the types of prices I saw this year on LED around the holidays. Pending reviews, of course.

Could someone at CES verify what this means? The package you used to have to buy seperately for 3D may now be included?The 2007 LED DLP series ended up having the xx87s series supporting HDMI 1.2a at most B&M stores while the xx89s series that included HDMI 1.3a - CEC along with PIP/Bluetooth/USB 2.0/T-120 Phlatlight LED's backlight sold at AV specialty stores. These two lines resemble the same game plan, the HLxxA650 for the Sears, CC, BB, Fry's and the HLxxA750 for places like Magnolia HI-FI and other AV specialty stores. This time they have all models supporting HDMI 1.3a - CEC!

The 2007 LED DLP series ended up having the xx87s series supporting HDMI 1.2a at most B&M stores while the xx89s series that included HDMI 1.3a - CEC along with PIP/Bluetooth/USB 2.0/T-120 Phlatlight LED's backlight sold at AV specialty stores. These two lines resemble the same game plan, the HLxxA650 for the Sears, CC, BB, Fry's and the HLxxA750 for places like Magnolia HI-FI and other AV specialty stores. This time they all have models supporting HDMI 1.3a - CEC!

Except, the big box-type stores you mention were pushing LED hard over the holidays (especially CC and Sears). Hopefully I will still be able to get discounted pricing on the DLP model I want but not have to sacrifice stuff that I require like LED, HDMI 1.3a, and PIP--like I would have had to have done last year. If LED goes to only specialty stores, I'll give up on DLP.

I'm not sure if you are reading the press release as I am but the 6 series is not LED.

Have they figured out the screen sagging problem yet? These new DLP's have great features, but if the screen sags, what's the point.

I have the first generation LED and the screen sags, which is a wide spread problem and not fixable. Unfortunately, Samsung has not responded to my issue even though it was under warranty. That problem is for another thread.

Except, the big box-type stores you mention were pushing LED hard over the holidays (especially CC and Sears). Hopefully I will still be able to get discounted pricing on the DLP model I want but not have to sacrifice stuff that I require like LED, HDMI 1.3a, and PIP--like I would have had to have done last year. If LED goes to only specialty stores, I'll give up on DLP.

I'm not sure if you are reading the press release as I am but the 6 series is not LED.Perhaps we will get more information shortly to verify this.

Informaton not yet available at Samsung ICES 2008 booth link (http://www.samsung.com/global/experience/ices2008/index.jsp)

I seen a couple of links that don't identify the 6 series as using a LED light engine.

From Gizmodo:

"The Catch: Old tech, dying everywhere."

WTF is that supposed to mean? I understand that everyone is in love with the plasma/LCD super thin, and Sony is bailing on us, but isn't DLP RP still superior to plasmas and LCDs? What will they say when Laser-based DLP sets start showing up?

No darkchip4 !
Not sure what Samsung is waiting for. RP technology needs to stay on top if they wanna survive.. I am eyeing that 67 inch LED, but why no top of the line features on top of the line DLP TV?

But they were 120Hz last year, so that should still be there.

I'm not as concerned about 120Hz per se as much as proper 24 fps support (judder-free)... If I understand correctly the previous DLPs (i.e. HL-T7288W) do have (limited?) 120Hz support but 24fps sources still went through a 3:2 pulldown and were displayed at 60Hz?

I'm just starting to shop for a new set after 7+ years so I've still got some catching up to do, especially with all the confusion that seems to surround this 24fps business. I don't think it's a deal breaker for me but I figured it was worth waiting for CES to see if the manufacturers had worked this out - unfortunately in this case my first impression is a "no".

I'm really confused as to what exactly the 6 series use as a light source. Is it lamp or LED? There is no mention of LED in the press release until it starts describing the 7 series. So could this mean there are no 50 or 56" LED sets for 2008? This is the size I was looking for. If the 6 series are indeed lamp based, once the 2007 HLT models are gone, no such set will exist. Perhaps the margins are too thin on the smaller LED sets and Samsung decided they are better off making money from people replacing lamps. Can anyone at the show confirm?

I saw mention of 240Hz earlier today on Engadget and a Laser DLP with 500K:1 but they did not specify brand or whether it's a concept or production model.

DLP evolving with new light sources
Posted Jan 7th 2008 12:00PM by Steven Kim
Filed under: CES, Displays

"DLP is finding new life with the latest advances in illumination technology. We've already seen LED backlights, and now the technology is taking a page from the LCD world. Say "hello" to 240Hz display mode DLPs, with a 50% increase in motion reproduction -- diminishing returns for Hz increases, indeed. Working with LED manufacturer Luminous has produced contrast ratios of 500,000:1. But the ride doesn't stop there, as demonstrated by Mitsubishi's laser HDTV with a DLP heart. We'll be checking that one out, so stay tuned for the details."

I'm not as concerned about 120Hz per se as much as proper 24 fps support (judder-free)

Just to put the 120Hz stuff to bed--it relies on being 120Hz to provide the 3D features, which all the models mentioned in the press release are supposed to have.

Just to put the 120Hz stuff to bed--it relies on being 120Hz to provide the 3D features, which all the models mentioned in the press release are supposed to have.

The 2007 models did 3D, but not judder free 24p processing.

There are multiple threads about these new displays, wonder if we can get one consolodated thread.

Also, where's the beef? Im not seeing anything in these new models that would make me wait until May to get one. Not that much better than the 2007 model, unless I am missing something.

One more HDMI, 40% contrast increase(this isnt DC4...is it?), and...?

Per Luminus:
Samsung’s 2008 LED DLP line-up will include two new models – the 61” HL61A750 and the 67” HL67A750. The new LED models will feature Samsung’s new slim, lightweight cabinet design featuring an ultra slim bezel. In addition to offering up to 40% more color, the new models carry PhlatLight LEDs’ long lifetime, eliminating the need for lamp replacement and improving environmental friendliness. This combined with DLP technology’s exceptional contrast and 1080p resolution gives consumers the superior viewing experience provided by the Slim DLP series with the option of an even larger screen size.

“Consumer demand for outstanding picture quality in larger screen sizes continues to grow and Samsung has answered this demand with our Slim DLP line,” said Steve Panosian, director of marketing, DLP and CRT HDTV products at Samsung Electronics America. “Now, not only are we able to offer a very thin bezel that allows the sets to fit where others won’t, but we are also able to deliver this advantage in larger screen sizes that use substantially less energy than plasma or LCD sets of the same size, thanks in large part to Luminus’ PhlatLight LED technology.”

Samsung introduced the first LED DLP TV incorporating PhlatLight technology in a 56” screen size in 2006. The company expanded the product line in 2007 by creating new models of LED DLP HDTVs in screen sizes up to 61”. The latest lineup is the third generation of Samsung’s Slim LED DLP series incorporating PhlatLight technology, with models that include screen sizes up to 67”.

So the series 6 is still arc-bulb. No news seen for any updated 50 or 56" size LED DLP's.

Damn. I was really hoping that Samsung would be able to do a 72" LED DLP this year. I want to convert from my old CRT based 65" Toshiba RPTV to a Samsung LED DLP. But I can't justify that purchase with just a 2" increase in screen size.

It looks like I may be waiting another year.

I'm not as concerned about 120Hz per se as much as proper 24 fps support (judder-free)... If I understand correctly the previous DLPs (i.e. HL-T7288W) do have (limited?) 120Hz support but 24fps sources still went through a 3:2 pulldown and were displayed at 60Hz?

I'm just starting to shop for a new set after 7+ years so I've still got some catching up to do, especially with all the confusion that seems to surround this 24fps business. I don't think it's a deal breaker for me but I figured it was worth waiting for CES to see if the manufacturers had worked this out - unfortunately in this case my first impression is a "no".

The LED Televisions if they're anything like the 2007's HLTxx87 and HLTxx89, should be able to run up to 120hz (in 3d mode) and support 24Hz playback with a "forced 24hz" mode such as the one found on the PlayStation 3. Auto-detection during the handshake of 24hz seems to make the television want to take a 60hz signal over 24hz though, so if you don't have a "forced" able player, I'd wait to see what these new sets offer...

I'm really confused as to what exactly the 6 series use as a light source. Is it lamp or LED? There is no mention of LED in the press release until it starts describing the 7 series. So could this mean there are no 50 or 56" LED sets for 2008? This is the size I was looking for. If the 6 series are indeed lamp based, once the 2007 HLT models are gone, no such set will exist. Perhaps the margins are too thin on the smaller LED sets and Samsung decided they are better off making money from people replacing lamps. Can anyone at the show confirm?

I think it's more of a marketing move. Why put out 50" displays with the prices of 50" LCD/Plasma displays falling more and more. By moving up to a bigger size, you see a larger gap between LCD/Plasma and LED DLP. The only problem with this is, you miss out on most of the market that are looking for 50-60" televisions... but the vast majority of those people won't know the difference between Lamp and LED. They're people like my co-workers who see their first a 42" Costco Vizio LCD and think they've gotten a great deal for the size and picture...

...then I tell them to drive home in their KIA's and they get angry with me. :P But the point is made.

The 2007 models did 3D, but not judder free 24p processing.

There are multiple threads about these new displays, wonder if we can get one consolodated thread.

Also, where's the beef? Im not seeing anything in these new models that would make me wait until May to get one. Not that much better than the 2007 model, unless I am missing something.

One more HDMI, 40% contrast increase(this isnt DC4...is it?), and...?

The only judder in 24hz (not "p") with the HLT LED models is normal movie judder. It took me some time to get used to the different framerate because I'm sensitive to that type of thing, but the framerate to my eyes looks most definitely consistent throughout my blue ray movies on my PS3. No judder to be had, just smooth pictures like the movies :)

From Twice.com
Samsung Gives Video Road Map (http://www.twice.com/article/CA6518246.html)

"In rear-projection TV, the company will go ahead with a spring launch of new DLP models despite faster growing demand for flat-panel displays, said Charles Park, senior manager of the PDP management group within Samsung’s visual display division. The company will also continue development of later-generation DLP models, including laser-based projection sets, but will remain in the rear-projection market only if it can drive down rear-projection prices enough to maintain “a price gap” with flat-panel TVs, he said. “We will stay there this year, and next year we will have to see.”

I hope they stay... 65 inch DLP is way to go, plasma and LCDs in this size are priced closer to small cars..

but isn't DLP RP still superior to plasmas and LCDs?

Why on earth would you says that?

I'm serious, I've been debating Sammy x89 LED DLP vs. Panny Plasma.

Why on earth would you says that?

I'm serious, I've been debating Sammy x89 LED DLP vs. Panny Plasma.As stated earlier, a lot of the benefits that people are saying a laser backlight would give, already exists with current Phlatlight LED powered DLP's. Long life, wide color gamut, no color wheel, no fan's and instant on and off. Eventually solid state lasers will also be economical enough to use in RPD's, but we are not quite there. In the mean while as the photonic lattice technology evolves (LED) they will also produce better and better displays. As long as RPD's can get better and better, all of us benefit!

Just found the posting of one participant via CNET at CES and her comments regarding the 3D DLP demo's:

CES: Dual-view and 3D high-definition TV
Posted by Amy Tiemann

"After a full day roaming the Consumer Electronics Show floor, I have to say the most mind-blowing thing I saw was the dual-view and 3D high-definition technology called DLP, made by Texas Instruments. This technology is being rolled out in Mitsubishi and Samsung televisions.

These are not flat-screen models, but thicker projection TVs. I was initially stopped in my tracks by the amazing image on a 73-inch model. They showed Shrek on the demo reel, and I have to say, the detail in the animation was incredible. I could see the sugar crystals sparkling on the Gingerbread Man's gumdrops. (They also showed Transformers, and it was very manly and explosive. Looked good too. DLP has a very fast refresh rate, so it is well-suited for action.)

Computer-animated films are rendered in three dimensions, making them an ideal candidate for 3D movie transformation. I saw a demo on the DLP set, using special 3D discs of Beowulf, Meet the Robinsons, and The Nightmare Before Christmas, and the viewing experience was awe-inspiring. You felt like you were about to be drawn into the picture. The set can render two complete HD images simultaneously and flawlessly, and the images are picked up and separated by special wireless 3D glasses.

This enables two totally separate images to be presented at the same time, which can be viewed either as 3D (A image right eye, B image left eye) or two different views presented on the same set at the same time (one person sees the A image in both eyes, the other sees B in both eyes). One obvious application is for video games; if two people are playing a driving game, they can each see their own car, or switch views back and forth.

The less obvious but technically intriguing application is that two people could be watching totally separate programs that are simultaneously displayed. With the glasses and earbud audio, you could have two people watching Grey's Anatomy and a football playoff game at the same time on the same set.

That's some truly mind-blowing technology. I am not sure what this means for family togetherness, sitting on the same couch watching two separate programs, but it could help resolve some sticky situations when competition for the remote control arises."

Also see this 3D DLP link (http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/technology_news/4243956.html) from CES 2008

What was very interesting for gamers was CES 2008: DLP shows off DualView TV (http://www.pocket-lint.co.uk/news/news.phtml/12084/13108/dlp-dual-screen-lcd-television.phtml)

...a lot of the benefits that people are saying a laser backlight would give, already exists with current Phlatlight LED powered DLP's. Long life, wide color gamut, no color wheel, no fan's and instant on and off. ...

This is quite possible, but do we really know that the 650 sets are LED? I've read the press release several times and it really seems confusing. They only talk about LED specifically with respect to the 750 sets.

I don't really have room for a 61 inch set, which is the smallest 750 made, but I could certainly fit in a 56 inch 650.

i am just curios to see if these tvs will look as good as the laser tv that mits is gonna have . so the question is should i wait for the mitz or buy my first samsung product.

CES: Dual-view and 3D high-definition TV
Posted by Amy Tiemann

[INDENT][I]"After a full day roaming the Consumer Electronics Show floor, I have to say the most mind-blowing thing I saw was the dual-view and 3D high-definition technology called DLP, made by Texas Instruments. This technology is being rolled out in Mitsubishi and Samsung televisions.

These are not flat-screen models, but thicker projection TVs. I was initially stopped in my tracks by the amazing image on a 73-inch model.

Stop right there. All I needed to hear was 73 inch model. That means a 73 inch Laser DLP is on the way. SIGN ME UP SOLD....

This is quite possible, but do we really know that the 650 sets are LED? I've read the press release several times and it really seems confusing. They only talk about LED specifically with respect to the 750 sets.

I don't really have room for a 61 inch set, which is the smallest 750 made, but I could certainly fit in a 56 inch 650.The six series is not LED back lit. The current LED DLP's such as the HL-T6187/89S is only 54.8" wide versus the HL-T5687/89S is only 50.4" wide. Are you sure about the size limits effecting you?

The six series is not LED back lit. The current LED DLP's such as the HL-T6187/89S is only 54.8" wide versus the HL-T5687/89S is only 50.4" wide. Are you sure about the size limits effecting you?

Bummer. The problem is that my TV goes in a corner and anything wider than 54 inches crowds a doorway. Might be able to get in a 61 but runs the risk of being bumped. We'll see.

CES: Dual-view and 3D high-definition TV
Posted by Amy Tiemann

[INDENT][I]"After a full day roaming the Consumer Electronics Show floor, I have to say the most mind-blowing thing I saw was the dual-view and 3D high-definition technology called DLP, made by Texas Instruments. This technology is being rolled out in Mitsubishi and Samsung televisions.

These are not flat-screen models, but thicker projection TVs. I was initially stopped in my tracks by the amazing image on a 73-inch model.

Stop right there. All I needed to hear was 73 inch model. That means a 73 inch Laser DLP is on the way. SIGN ME UP SOLD....

I wouldn't make that assumption. Neither of the demos she's referring to ran on the Laser TV's Mitsubishi debuted at the Palms on Monday night--they ran on conventional lamp and color wheel models being used in the DLP booth. While Mitsubishi is pushing the Laser TV sets, the 73-inch Mitsubishi she's talking about was not one of them. The three Laser sets were all 65".

This takes nothing away from the amazing demos available at the booth. My wife, who is much more of a pragmatist than I am when it comes to bleeding edge technology, was wowed by the dual-view demo(although I think she just covets the ability to watch movies while I play Madden :)). I thought the 3D presentation was the best home 3D application I've seen, mostly because they modified current movies and video games (Harry Potter, Revenge of the Sith, Beowulf, Madden, etc) to showcase it.

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=974465&highlight=2008+dlp

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=974465&highlight=2008+dlp

So whats your point?

let me explain...click on the link, scroll down a few posts; ull find pics of the new sammy's....something this thread DOESNT have, but could use.

Thats my .!

Here is a link to:

Samsung DLP sets at CES - 2008 (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12764030&postcount=7)

let me explain...click on the link, scroll down a few posts; ull find pics of the new sammy's....something this thread DOESNT have, but could use.

Thats my .!Added images from Bruce Banner to first message in topic.

500,000:1 CR?

Holy cow.

The sign on the second pic appears to say HL-T6187 to me.

No Dark Chip 4 and no judder free support = death of DLP come 2009!

No Dark Chip 4 and no judder free support = death of DLP come 2009!The Darkchip4 technology is on display in TI's DLP products booth at CES (Central Hall, Booth #8205). Since these new Samsung models are coming out in April or June anyone really know whats the DLP processor is for the different model lines? So far no specs posted.

The sign on the second pic appears to say HL-T6187 to me.
Your right!

The sign on the second pic appears to say HL-T6187 to me.

That's correct. Outside of the Darkchip 4 prototype and the demo sets used for 3D and dualview, the new Samsungs were only being shown at the Samsung booth.

No Dark Chip 4 and no judder free support = death of DLP come 2009!

While I was told the Darkchip4 would not be in the 2008 Samsungs, I wouldn't assume that this year's models would not be an improvement WRT judder. I thought the 67" LED Sammy looked very nice.

Doesnt that sign say Darkchip 4 under Samsung DLPs?

Doesnt that sign say Darkchip 4 under Samsung DLPs?Those are prototype sets in the TI booth, not the 2008 Samsung models.

Doesnt that sign say Darkchip 4 under Samsung DLPs?

Yes it does. They have a darkchip3 right beside it.

Yes it does. They have a darkchip3 right beside it.

thats what i saw also.

http://www.phileweb.com/news/photo/200801/TI-DARKCHIP4-2_big.jpg

You can see the blacker blacks on the Darkchip4 side compared to the Darkchip3 side.

Samsung, please add Darkchip 4 to your 2008 line-up.. (although press release doesnt say anything about that).
Now we need 240Hz and Lasers for full effect and we have a perfect DLP set before they retire?
I'll take 67" one.

You mean under the bra?


http://www.phileweb.com/news/photo/200801/TI-DARKCHIP4-2_big.jpg

You can see the blacker blacks on the Darkchip4 side compared to the Darkchip3 side.

Yes and other places it gives the movie a little more detail, the Darkchip3 side looks washed out.

i think this set will be nice . i wonder if samsung will add there motion enhancer like the sony a3000 does.

61" is the smallest LED driven?? :(

61" is the smallest LED driven

I find the press releases totally confusing on this matter but according to JohnAV this is true, and the smaller sets are (I guess) colour-wheel hot-lamp. Doesn't make any sense to me but to be sure I guess we'll have to wait until Samsung lists them.

Dumb move. Frankly, they should of dropped lamp based on all but the 50" in spite of the fact the LED sets are more $$.
BTW; Last years LED sets are the 'Greenest' TVs' per screen size;
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=975348

Let me get this straight, Samsung announced the 2008 LED DLPs without detailed specs and their CES booth didn't showcase any of the the sets displaying contents? Did any show attendees ask the booth staff for details of the new sets?

Yeah, what are the differences? HDMI 1.3 for one I would imagine.

I guess they don't want to tank sales of current sets too badly by announcing all of the improvements, but I want to know if it's worth waiting, or if I should pick up the 61" LED now to replace my first gen trusty old HLN617W. That has been a great set, but I wants me some 1080p!

Anyone want to buy my old set with a brand new unused lamp for say $800? :-)

Yeah, what are the differences? HDMI 1.3 for one I would imagine.

HDMI 1.3 is in the press release (in the first post in this thread), that's no secret. They had that this year except it was only the high-end model that was priced too high. Its the rest of the specs that they weren't as clear on. Hopefully they do DC4 this year.

Does anyone know what new technology will be introduced on the upcoming Samsung DLP 72" model since it looks like no LED DLP.:mad: I was really looking forward to the 5" more or 26% larger screen than the 67"...the immersion effect is just phenominal.

Let me get this straight, Samsung announced the 2008 LED DLPs without detailed specs and their CES booth didn't showcase any of the the sets displaying contents? Did any show attendees ask the booth staff for details of the new sets?The people at the Samsung Booth refused to give out any specifics to the new displays.

I wonder why...
Maybe specs can change by the time they are shipped.. Maybe they are not ready for production and specs havent been finalized? Maybe they dont have the cool technology we all looking for (DC4, 240 hz)

So does the 2007 line have the Darkchip 4 or Not?

Let me get this straight, Samsung announced the 2008 LED DLPs without detailed specs and their CES booth didn't showcase any of the the sets displaying contents? Did any show attendees ask the booth staff for details of the new sets?

The Samsung reps were very vague about specifics, but I was told that improvements to the LEDs resulted in a contrast ratio improvement over last years models. They weren't too keen on pictures either, but I'm glad they allowed me to snap a few. I just wish they'd turned out better.

So does the 2007 line have the Darkchip 4 or Not?The 2007 line uses the DarkChip3 processor. I said earlier that Samsung refuses to divulge what their specs on new series 6 and series displays when asked at CES 2008 booth, So I hope they use the DarkChip 4 in new models.

BTW TetsujinWave, great pictures of the new models, considering that little sign under the 67"! ;)

The 2007 line uses the DarkChip3 processor. I said earlier that Samsung refuses to divulge what their specs on new series 6 and series displays when asked at CES 2008 booth, so DarkChip 4 I hope so.

I was told the same thing at the booth...I hope they would reconsider using the DarkChip4 processor.

Edited to add--I'm really sorry about how dark the pictures came out--working with a new camera, and was not allowed to retake shots with my old one when I returned later. I am very grateful for the opportunity to take them and the time the reps took to talk with me about them.

what was PQ like, JohnAV or TetsujinWave or anyone else who attended? thanks for the photos

Yes, thanks for the photos TetsujinWave. These are the first pictures of the 2008 units I have seen that are taken by a CES attendee. So they did display contents on these new models. The PQ on the last picture look the best, but it could be just the correct scene and the good exposure of the shot. Personally, I'm waiting for the 67-inch LED model, unless the Mitsubishi Laser can come close in the pricing and arrive sooner than next Black Friday. What's your opinion on the PQ of the 67-inch display?

...They weren't too keen on pictures either, but I'm glad they allowed me to snap a few....

The impression I get from the 67 is that the side angle image looks quite bright compared to the 2007 LED models.

I thought the PQ on both displays was excellent. As I'm rainbow-prone, I prefer the 67" LED personally.

I would not try to evaluate PQ from the pictures, because I didn't get the results I wanted from them--and that was my fault.

wow...sounds good, looks like the 67" will be the hit, however I am still hopefull they implement the LED tecgnonoly in the 72";)

So what's with the Darkchip 3 and 4 side by side comparison shot in the first post of this thread? I'm assuming that was snapped at CES 2008. Why have a big poster board promoting Darkchip 4 if it wasn't going to be use in the 2008 line? Hell, there it is right there. Is that a protoype or does it have a model number on it?

Originally posted by Jamers:
So what's with the Darkchip 3 and 4 side by side comparison shot in the first post of this thread? I'm assuming that was snapped at CES 2008. Why have a big poster board promoting Darkchip 4 if it wasn't going to be use in the 2008 line? Hell, there it is right there. Is that a protoype or does it have a model number on it?

My guess is TI knows the RPTV market is shrinking and they didn't want to go without a display at all, even if a year away. DLP made such great enhancements in previous years. They seam to have really slowed down.

So what's with the Darkchip 3 and 4 side by side comparison shot in the first post of this thread? I'm assuming that was snapped at CES 2008. Why have a big poster board promoting Darkchip 4 if it wasn't going to be use in the 2008 line? Hell, there it is right there. Is that a protoype or does it have a model number on it?They were simply demoing the Darkchip 4 that will be used in future DLP models. Nobody said what processors are going to be used in new models from Samsung or Mitsubishi. BTW DLP models get announced through the year, not just at CES. Your only seeing working DLP display prototypes with new processor inside.

The prototype was @ DLP booth, not Samsung.
It did look exactly the same (dimensions, etc) as 6187..

So what's with the Darkchip 3 and 4 side by side comparison shot in the first post of this thread? I'm assuming that was snapped at CES 2008. Why have a big poster board promoting Darkchip 4 if it wasn't going to be use in the 2008 line? Hell, there it is right there. Is that a protoype or does it have a model number on it?

those pics look great. i cant wait to see these tv's.

[QUOTE=JohnAV;12786339]The 2007 line uses the DarkChip3 processor. I said earlier that Samsung refuses to divulge what their specs on new series 6 and series displays when asked at CES 2008 booth, So I hope they use the DarkChip 4 in new models./QUOTE]

You know, I wonder if they are being very tight lipped about it because they don't want to hurt sales of the current models. Maybe the will use the darkchip4, and just aren't saying. I mean, if TI has it, why wouldn't they use it. It can't be that much cost difference, not in the volume Samsung would buy them in.

[QUOTE=JohnAV;12786339]The 2007 line uses the DarkChip3 processor. I said earlier that Samsung refuses to divulge what their specs on new series 6 and series displays when asked at CES 2008 booth, So I hope they use the DarkChip 4 in new models./QUOTE]

You know, I wonder if they are being very tight lipped about it because they don't want to hurt sales of the current models. Maybe the will use the darkchip4, and just aren't saying. I mean, if TI has it, why wouldn't they use it. It can't be that much cost difference, not in the volume Samsung would buy them in.

One of the reps at the TI Booth said both the 61" and 67" 2008 Samsung LED DLP's would be using the Darkchip 4 chip. This was a TI rep and not a Samsung guy. Who knows...

Hi guys! This is my very first avs post!! I will be getting a series "7" samsung Dlp. In either the 61" or 67" size. I'd rather get one of these as my first major big screen purchase over a 52" lcd for 2900. Long live DLP! :)

My family already owns the 6187 LED. I want a larger screen, so I plan to purchase the 67" LED.

Heres the deal:

1. If the new 67" LED is the DC4 (it's bought) if not
2. Then I may get the new Mits Laser

Samsung better stop playing games with DLP. If they want increased sales, make it better and add the cost. Otherwise, those prototypes may never see the light!

I doubt they intend to make three DLP line models. Non-LED, LED, and LED Pro.

Note to Samsung, delay and make the next LED the DC4. If the Laser and DC4LED sets can't get RPTV sales going then nothing will.

According to TI all new 2008 Samsung DLPs' will have DC4... that is what they said at there booth at CES

I find the press releases totally confusing on this matter but according to JohnAV this is true, and the smaller sets are (I guess) colour-wheel hot-lamp. Doesn't make any sense to me but to be sure I guess we'll have to wait until Samsung lists them.

I found the Samsung press release a little confusing as well. I too was wanting a 56" LED tv. I went to Luminus Devices website and looked at their press releases. The two press releases are in regards to the LED technology. I made part of the text below in bold to point something out that I saw on the Luminus Devices press release on their website. They make it sound as though the 61" and 67" model is being added to the current line up of LED tv's. I know what your thinking Samsung already has 61" LED from the 2007 year model in their line up. So how could it be new. Perhaps with the 61" and 67" theirs some added features. I hope they haven't done away with the 50 and 56" models.

jim

__________________________________

http://www.luminus.com/content1242


Luminus Devices Previews Third Generation of LED-Powered DLP® HDTVs from Samsung's 2008 Line-Up
30% Brighter PhlatLight™ LEDs Enable Larger Screen Sizes Including New 67" Model
January 7, 2008

Las Vegas, Nevada – Luminus Devices, Inc. today announced it will preview the latest models in Samsung Electronics’ new line of Slim Depth Widescreen LED-Powered DLP® HDTVs with 1080p resolution, featuring Luminus’ patented PhlatLight™ LED technology. Luminus’ significant breakthroughs in achieving unprecedented brightness levels from its PhlatLight LEDs have created a 30% improvement in brightness over last year’s product, enabling the first-ever 67” screen size in Samsung’s Slim DLP series and making it the largest LED-illuminated DLP ever created. New models will be unveiled during this week’s 2008 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) in Las Vegas.
“We continue to invest in R&D to improve the brightness and efficiency of our PhlatLight LED technology,” said John Langevin, vice president of sales and marketing at Luminus Devices, Inc. “These improvements allow our RPTV customers to increase the brightness and viewing angles of their existing models, while adding larger screen sizes.”
Samsung’s 2008 LED DLP line-up will include two new models – the 61” HL61A750 and the 67” HL67A750. The new LED models will feature Samsung’s new slim, lightweight cabinet design featuring an ultra slim bezel. In addition to offering up to 40% more color, the new models carry PhlatLight LEDs’ long lifetime, eliminating the need for lamp replacement and improving environmental friendliness. This combined with DLP technology’s exceptional contrast and 1080p resolution gives consumers the superior viewing experience provided by the Slim DLP series with the option of an even larger screen size.
“Consumer demand for outstanding picture quality in larger screen sizes continues to grow and Samsung has answered this demand with our Slim DLP line,” said Steve Panosian, director of marketing, DLP and CRT HDTV products at Samsung Electronics America. “Now, not only are we able to offer a very thin bezel that allows the sets to fit where others won’t, but we are also able to deliver this advantage in larger screen sizes that use substantially less energy than plasma or LCD sets of the same size, thanks in large part to Luminus’ PhlatLight LED technology.”
Samsung introduced the first LED DLP TV incorporating PhlatLight technology in a 56” screen size in 2006. The company expanded the product line in 2007 by creating new models of LED DLP HDTVs in screen sizes up to 61”. The latest lineup is the third generation of Samsung’s Slim LED DLP series incorporating PhlatLight technology, with models that include screen sizes up to 67”.
Luminus will demonstrate a variety of consumer and professional display products illuminated by PhlatLight technology, including multiple new pocket projectors, a prototype home theater projector and large screen LCD backlight units, with a focus on enabling slimmer panels and improved performance. The demonstrations will take place this week in a private suite at The Mirage, located at 3400 Las Vegas Boulevard South, Las Vegas, Nevada. Anyone interested in scheduling an appointment should contact Bree Clidence at (760) 940-9025 or Kaycee Roberts at (401) 490-9700 for more information.
About Luminus Devices
Luminus Devices, Inc. develops and manufactures high performance solid state light sources for a variety of illumination applications, including high definition TVs, video projectors, avionics displays, and lighting systems. Its patented PhlatLightä (Photonic Lattice) LED products are the brightest and most versatile solid state light sources available today and are enabling innovative products and applications never before possible. Luminus Devices' headquarters and primary manufacturing facilities are located in Billerica, Massachusetts, U.S.A. For more information, visit www.luminus.com and www.phlatlight.com.

For more information, contact:

Bree Clidence or Kaycee Roberts
SVM Public Relations
760-940-9025 or 401-490-9700
bree.clidence@svmpr.com or kaycee.roberts@svmpr.com

Note to editors: PhlatLight is a trademark of Luminus Devices. DLP and DLP Cinema are registered trademarks of Texas Instruments.

____________________________________________________________ ________________________________________________________

http://www.luminus.com/content1244

Luminus Devices and Texas Instruments Join Forces to Double Brightness
Collaboration Produces Dramatic Advancements to Enable New Display Products
January 7, 2008

Las Vegas, Nevada – January 7, 2008 – Luminus Devices, Inc., together with DLP® Products from Texas Instruments (TI), today announced they have achieved significant breakthroughs in brightness levels for displays through the combination of Luminus’ PhlatLight™ LED technology and TI’s DLP technology. The two companies will show prototype display systems and new products using their combined technology to demonstrate brightness levels higher than thought possible with LED technology during the 2008 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES) taking place from January 7-10 in Las Vegas.
The collaboration of Luminus and TI has more than doubled brightness from last year enabling a range of new display products, including thin, high contrast, wide viewing angle TVs.
Among the prototypes being demonstrated at the DLP products booth at CES (Central Hall, Booth #8205) is a slim DLP HDTV illuminated using PhlatLight LED technology. The DLP TV, features a contrast ratio beyond 500,000:1, is ultra light and thin for easy wall mounting and due to the increased brightness, can use new screen technology doubling the viewing angle to match viewing angles of other flat screen technology.
“Our continual improvements in brightness have opened up a new realm of display product categories previously thought impossible with conventional LEDs,” said Christian Hoepfner, vice president of products at Luminus Devices, Inc. “With the brightness levels we’ve reached with TI so far, we’re on track to break the one thousand lumen mark this year with a front projector. This achievement marks a significant breakthrough, not only in terms of performance, but also in the creation of exciting new large screen HDTVs and home theater projectors.”
Displays illuminated by PhlatLight produce a forty percent wider color gamut than the NTSC standard without the need for a color wheel. PhlatLight’s unique ability to create pure, primary colors that are sequentially pulsed at speeds up to 48 times the traditional television frame rate, produces stable, accurate colors, and a smooth picture, with superior motion quality. PhlatLight LEDs offer significantly longer lifetimes than arc lamps used in most microdisplays, to deliver a consistent picture without fading. Since lamp warm-up time is unnecessary, the picture appears instantly at full brightness. PhlatLight-illuminated DLP TVs are also more environmentally friendly because they consume one third the energy of comparably sized flat panel TVs and eliminate the conventional lamp that requires repeated replacement during the lifetime of the TV.
“The high-brightness capabilities of PhaltLight LED technology complement the exceptional picture quality provided by DLP and give our customers more advantages to design innovative new display products,” said Adam Kunzman, business manager, DLP HDTV Products, Texas Instruments. “These innovations ensure a steady flow of exciting new products and product categories for the future.”

At this year’s CES, Luminus is demonstrating a variety of consumer and professional display products illuminated by PhlatLight technology, including projection TVs, pocket projectors and large screen LCD backlight units. The demonstrations will take place this week in a private suite at The Mirage, located at 3400 Las Vegas Boulevard South, Las Vegas, Nevada. Anyone interested in scheduling an appointment should contact Bree Clidence or Kaycee Roberts at 760-940-9025 or 401-490-9700.

About Luminus Devices
Luminus Devices, Inc. develops and manufactures high performance solid state light sources for a variety of illumination applications, including high definition TVs, video projectors, avionics displays, and lighting systems. Its patented PhlatLightä (Photonic Lattice) LED products are the brightest and most versatile solid state light sources available today and are enabling innovative products and applications never before possible. Luminus Devices' headquarters and primary manufacturing facilities are located in Billerica, Massachusetts, U.S.A. For more information, visit www.luminus.com and www.phlatlight.com.
About Texas Instruments DLP Products
DLP display technology from Texas Instruments offers clarity down to the most minute detail, delivering pictures rich with color, contrast and brightness to large-screen HDTVs and projectors for business, home, professional venue and digital cinema (DLP Cinema®). 75 of the world's top projection and display manufacturers design, manufacture and market products based on DLP technology. At the heart of every DLP chip is an array of up to 2.2 million microscopic mirrors which switch incredibly fast to create a high resolution, highly reliable, full color image. DLP technology’s chip architecture and inherent speed advantage provides razor-sharp images and excellent reproduction of fast motion video. Since early 1996, more than 10 million DLP subsystems have been shipped. For more information, please visit www.dlp.com. Texas Instruments is traded on the New York Stock Exchange under the symbol TXN. More information is located on the World Wide Web at www.ti.com.

Luminus Media Contact:
Bree Clidence or Kaycee Roberts
SVM Public Relations
760-940-9025 or 401-490-9700
bree.clidence@svmpr.com or kaycee.roberts@svmpr.com

Note to editors: PhlatLight is a trademark of Luminus Devices. DLP and DLP Cinema are registered trademarks of Texas Instruments.

...They make it sound as though the 61" and 67" model is being added to the current line up of LED tv's. I know what your thinking Samsung already has 61" LED from the 2007 year model in their line up. So how could it be new....

Well no, I can see that the 750 sets have a number of advances over previous gen LEDs regardless of size. It just seems wierd to me that Samsung would go to the expense of the R&D and retooling to produce this improved technology and not offer it across their range. Color wheels and replaceable lamps are two of the reasons why the market is going against RPTVs. The big stores just don't want the customer complaints and service obligations these fragile technologies bring down on them.

Anyway like I said we'll have to wait until Samsung puts these models on their website. One thing I'll be looking for is whether thay have access doors for cleaning, like the 87/89 models do now. Having had cobwebs inside my present RP I wouldn't want one without it.

According to TI all new 2008 Samsung DLPs' will have DC4... that is what they said at there booth at CES

I got the same message at the TI booth.

To TetsujinWave or others who have seen the 67" LED model on the CES floor, I forgot to ask one very important question in my previous posts - how deep is the new 67" uint? I'm curious to know how much thickness they can shave off the new DLPs to compete with the flat panels.

does anyone know dates when usually manufactures realese info on their lineups?

To TetsujinWave or others who have seen the 67" LED model on the CES floor, I forgot to ask one very important question in my previous posts - how deep is the new 67" uint? I'm curious to know how much thickness they can shave off the new DLPs to compete with the flat panels.

It was a little slimmer than last year's 67" lamp based set they sold through Costco. It isn't close to a flat panel's thickness.

I will say, however, that I was a little disappointed in the Mitsu Laser set's depth. They'd hyped it as though it would rival LCD's in picture and thickness. It just looked like a slimmer RPTV (which is exactly what it is). The picture was excellent as advertised.

A few years ago RCA came out with a 720p DLP set that was thin enough to be hung on a wall--now the picture left a lot to be desired, but it shows that such a set can be manufactured.

Originally posted by TetsujinWave:
I will say, however, that I was a little disappointed in the Mitsu Laser set's depth. They'd hyped it as though it would rival LCD's in picture and thickness. It just looked like a slimmer RPTV (which is exactly what it is). The picture was excellent as advertised.

Thanks for the info on both sets. Am I the only one who could care less about depth? Anything under 20" is fine with me. I have a bunch of A/V equipment to put under my TV and speaker/power jacks on the wall behind the TV stand to cover up. I think most people are that way. All I would do with a flat panel is place it on top of the TV stand with a bunch of room to spare.

You aren't the only one. I just want a set with great PQ and as few flaws as possible. If it happens to be thin, that's cool too--but thickness isn't a dealbreaker for me.

Yeah, i don't get the thinness craze either, unless you are going to wall mount it, but that seems more of a pain than any benefit. Most wall mounts are probably done too high I'd bet. I have my 61" DLP on a stand approx 20 " high, which is perfect, and it is the perfect depth to house all my AV gear, which has to go somewhere. I don't care if the TV is much thinner, it will just mean more open space behind it.

Put simply, the thinner the depth, the less visually obtrusive it is in the living room. That's just how it is, and why plasmas are so popular. I would prefer MY tv to be as thin as possible too, but I'm not particulary willing to sacrifice PQ, burn-in, or electical efficiency to get it. Thinness is something to strive for, but not at the expense of the other stuff. Hey, but that's just me. 14-15" is shallow enough.

Most TV stands aren't only a few inches thick, and I would think that a thin flat panel pushed all the way back against the wall on a regular stand would just look stupid. If the TV is going to be placed in the middle of the stand anyway, then what does its depth matter?

The thickness of the upcoming 67" LED unit is of interest to me because I live in a Manhattan apt with limited space. My current HLP5674W TV is 18.2" in depth, I couldn't have bought a larger DLP screen then because of the depth limitation. My viewing distance is about 9' at this moment from wall to wall in the living room. Every inch they can take off in the newer units matters to me.

"Every inch they can take off in the newer units matters to me."

You and 100 million other folks as well. :)

What's nice is that as the screens get thinner, more folks will become accepting of the idea of larger and larger screen sizes, thus making more money for the manufacturers as well. It's not a vicious cycle, it's a GREAT cycle!

The thickness of the upcoming 67" LED unit is of interest to me because I live in a Manhattan apt with limited space. My current HLP5674W TV is 18.2" in depth, I couldn't have bought a larger DLP screen then because of the depth limitation. My viewing distance is about 9' at this moment from wall to wall in the living room. Every inch they can take off in the newer units matters to me.

Yes, and with the new "slim-line" 12inch DLPs they introduced horrible geometry issues that are not resolvable due to the case design.

Just get another 56 inch. The current 2007 LED model is 14inch deep.

If you *really* want 67 inches, get a bigger apartment first.

If you want a 1 inch thick DLP, it isn't happening. Pray for an OLED set or just bite the bullet and buy an LCD/Plasma.

I currently have an HLN5065 :D Its 4 years old, running strong on the original bulb. No hdmi, but I run component in anyway.
So, how much have these new dlp units changed since then? Worth upgrading, or is there new better stuff within the next few years? I was also thinking of a lcd flatpanel, maybe 60"+. Is DLP still holding its own?
thanks!

Move to Bergen County?
67 might be too much for u.. and no surround speakers?

The thickness of the upcoming 67" LED unit is of interest to me because I live in a Manhattan apt with limited space. My current HLP5674W TV is 18.2" in depth, I couldn't have bought a larger DLP screen then because of the depth limitation. My viewing distance is about 9' at this moment from wall to wall in the living room. Every inch they can take off in the newer units matters to me.

I currently have an HLN5065 :D Its 4 years old, running strong on the original bulb. No hdmi, but I run component in anyway.
So, how much have these new dlp units changed since then? Worth upgrading, or is there new better stuff within the next few years? I was also thinking of a lcd flatpanel, maybe 60"+. Is DLP still holding its own?
thanks!Very reasonable question to ask!

Price-wise the cost of a LCD flat panel >52" is excessive still for mainstream brand names (sony, samsung, sharp, toshiba) Expect to spend a lot of $$ for either a 57" or 65" LCD flat panel.

Since your HLN5065 has been out, you are now dealing with 1080P models with NTSC\ATSC\QAM Tuners compared to your HD ready 720P display with only a NTSC tuner. (you need the ATSC\QAM to receive HD broadcasts)

The models are a bit less deep then yours. My 61" is only 14.4" deep versus your 50" is 17.5 " deep.

The newest models for either 2007 or 2008 offer a choice between bulb back light with color wheel, or the never needs changing LED back light engine with no color wheel and no visible RBE except to the rare few now.

You now have HDMI ports so you can use HD players inputing 1080P content. Also HDMI ports allow upscaling players to work up to 1080P (not the same as true HD media content, but a lot better then SD)

At this time I own a Samsung HLT-6189s and IMHO there is no 60" LCD flat panel to match it performance wise in the same price range. I also have a new Sony LCD flat panel in a another room and PQ is comparable, but the Large LED DLP has no motion artifacts when watching football games.

The 2008 HLxxA650/A750 all offer minor improvements over the 2007 series but they won't be available for several months, so your choice! :)

Very reasonable question to ask!

Price-wise the cost of a LCD flat panel >52" is excessive still for mainstream brand names (sony, samsung, sharp, toshiba) Expect to spend a lot of $$ for either a 57" or 65" LCD flat panel.

Since your HLN5065 has been out, you are now dealing with 1080P models with NTSC\ATSC\QAM Tuners compared to your HD ready 720P display with only a NTSC tuner. (you need the ATSC\QAM to receive HD broadcasts)

The models are a bit less deep then yours. My 61" is only 14.4" deep versus your 50" is 17.5 " deep.

The newest models for either 2007 or 2008 offer a choice between bulb back light with color wheel, or the never needs changing LED back light engine with no color wheel and no visible RBE except to the rare few now.

You now have HDMI ports so you can use HD players inputing 1080P content. Also HDMI ports allow upscaling players to work up to 1080P (not the same as true HD media content, but a lot better then SD)

At this time I own a Samsung HLT-6189s and IMHO there is no 60" LCD flat panel to match it performance wise in the same price range. I also have a new Sony LCD flat panel in a another room and PQ is comparable, but the Large LED DLP has no motion artifacts when watching football games.

The 2008 HLxxA650/A750 all offer minor improvements over the 2007 series but they won't be available for several months, so your choice! :)

John,
how do you like your HLT model. The reason I ask is because I wanted the new 56" LED model tv. But it seems that Samsung isn't going to make 56" LED tv. Should I buy the old 56" HLT or look for something else. I was really excited about this new line and the specs I was reading.

jim

Very reasonable question to ask!

Price-wise the cost of a LCD flat panel >52" is excessive still for mainstream brand names (sony, samsung, sharp, toshiba) Expect to spend a lot of $$ for either a 57" or 65" LCD flat panel.

Since your HLN5065 has been out, you are now dealing with 1080P models with NTSC\ATSC\QAM Tuners compared to your HD ready 720P display with only a NTSC tuner. (you need the ATSC\QAM to receive HD broadcasts)

The models are a bit less deep then yours. My 61" is only 14.4" deep versus your 50" is 17.5 " deep.

The newest models for either 2007 or 2008 offer a choice between bulb back light with color wheel, or the never needs changing LED back light engine with no color wheel and no visible RBE except to the rare few now.

You now have HDMI ports so you can use HD players inputing 1080P content. Also HDMI ports allow upscaling players to work up to 1080P (not the same as true HD media content, but a lot better then SD)

At this time I own a Samsung HLT-6189s and IMHO there is no 60" LCD flat panel to match it performance wise in the same price range. I also have a new Sony LCD flat panel in a another room and PQ is comparable, but the Large LED DLP has no motion artifacts when watching football games.

The 2008 HLxxA650/A750 all offer minor improvements over the 2007 series but they won't be available for several months, so your choice! :)

John,

Does the Samsung you own accept 24p? I was looking to buy one of the new sets with 120hz but am wondering if they will show much improvement over last year models. I mainly use this tv for movies and the 24p done correctly would make my decison easier.

thanks,
M1

John,
how do you like your HLT model. The reason I ask is because I wanted the new 56" LED model tv. But it seems that Samsung isn't going to make 56" LED tv. Should I buy the old 56" HLT or look for something else. I was really excited about this new line and the specs I was reading.

jimRecommended - very good PQ, good blacks, good uniformed brightness. If the 56" works for you size wise great, one to consider!

Between the Sony KDS-xxA3000 series (being phased out) and the Samsung HL-Txx87s/89s series you can do no wrong.

I prefer the Samsung series because of the +100,000 hours life on the LED light engine (uses T-120 Phlatlight LED's), no fan (quiet), instant on and off. The 89s line uses HDMI 1.3a supporting xvYCC (30 bit color), where as 87s uses HDMI 1.2a (24 bit color).

Both displays support 1080P/24hz (87s recent firmware, 89s initial firmware)

John,

Does the Samsung you own accept 24p? I was looking to buy one of the new sets with 120hz but am wondering if they will show much improvement over last year models. I mainly use this tv for movies and the 24p done correctly would make my decison easier.

thanks,
M1Yes, both LED DLP displays support 1080P/24hz (87s recent firmware update, 89s initial firmware). The 2007 LED DLP displays don't have motion processing like the higher-end LCD flat panels to avoid motion artifacts (they don't need it - 16 microseconds response time) but they have a 120 Hz refresh rate (new screen every 8.33 milliseconds). For extreme gamer's TI was showing the Darkchip4 with 240hz technology (hopefully will be in 2008 models). Perhaps people can comment on how much of a benefit that will bring. IMHO I am not sold on 120 hz technology as far as LCD flat panels yet, I could barely perceive any differences.

Which Blu-Ray player are you using if I might ask?

Since the LED's are going to be brighter in the 2008 models, is the screen lower gain?

Yes, both LED DLP displays support 1080P/24hz (87s recent firmware update, 89s initial firmware).* The 2007 LED DLP displays don't have motion processing like the higher-end LCD flat panels to avoid motion artifacts (they don't need it - 16 microseconds response time) but they have a 120 Hz refresh rate (new screen every 8.33 milliseconds).* For extreme gamer's TI was showing the Darkchip4 with 240hz technology (hopefully will be in 2008 models).* Perhaps people can comment on how much of a benefit that will bring.* IMHO I am not sold on 120 hz technology as far as LCD flat panels yet, I could barely perceive any differences.Which Blu-Ray player are you using if I might ask?Thank you John,I'm using the Panasonic Bluray DMP-30...I have it hooked up to a two year old Samsung 1080P DLP set. (61")I would really like the 24p for movies but am on the fence if the new tech. this year from Samsung will be leaps and bounds from the 07's.Thanks,M1

I currently have an HLN5065 :D Its 4 years old, running strong on the original bulb. No hdmi, but I run component in anyway.
So, how much have these new dlp units changed since then? Worth upgrading, or is there new better stuff within the next few years? I was also thinking of a lcd flatpanel, maybe 60"+. Is DLP still holding its own?
thanks!

I asked a very similar question here:

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=977193

I'm in the same boat as you, have an HLN617W that works great for me, still on original bulb (although it is dimmer now, but I have a replacement waiting), and gives a great picture. I have an opportunity to sell my current set and get a 61" LED DLP for a net cost to me of about $1200.

I'm trying to decide if it is worth it. I would certainly like 1080p for my Blu Ray player, and the instant on and low noise of the LED backlighting. But, I'm not sure if it is really worth the cost, or if I should stick my new bulb in and wait a few more years and see what is out there.

I know the new LED set should have better contrast and picture, but is it worth $1200? The thing I don't like about the '07 model is no HDMI 1.3 and xvYCCC color, so not as "future proof" as the 2008 LED model would be. But, I can't figure out if that stuff will really be any benefit to me over the next 4-5 years. Will anything (Blu Rays????) ever take advantage of these features?

The thing I don't like about the '07 model is no HDMI 1.3 and xvYCCC color, so not as "future proof" as the 2008 LED model would be. But, I can't figure out if that stuff will really be any benefit to me over the next 4-5 years. Will anything (Blu Rays????) ever take advantage of these features?

You obviously haven't read the feature sets.

The 2007 HL-TXX89S models support HDMI 1.3. Will you notice a difference between 1.2 and 1.3? No. The extra color space is beyond most of people's eyes. It only sounds good in marketing. Just like "upconversion."

LED is completely worth it. Samsung gave the 2007 bulb sets an experimental case design that flopped horribly with huge geometry issues.

...Samsung gave the 2007 bulb sets an experimental case design that flopped horribly with huge geometry issues.

This is interesting. Do you have any more information, links?

You obviously haven't read the feature sets.

The 2007 HL-TXX89S models support HDMI 1.3. Will you notice a difference between 1.2 and 1.3? No. The extra color space is beyond most of people's eyes. It only sounds good in marketing. Just like "upconversion."

LED is completely worth it. Samsung gave the 2007 bulb sets an experimental case design that flopped horribly with huge geometry issues.

No, I'm quite aware of the features of the HL-TXX89S model, but the ~$1200 "upgrade" deal I have is only for the HL-TXX87S, which doesn't have the HMDI 1.3 or deep color support. So, I was wondering how important those will be in the next 4-5 years, and if it would be worth passing on this deal and waiting for a 2008. I.e., are the improvements in the HL-T6087S worth $1200 over my 4 year old DLP.

... are the improvements in the HL-T6087S worth $1200 over my 4 year old DLP.With a working HLN set, I would wait for the 2008 sets to get into the market. Then I would also wait for the start the normal price cutting that always goes on. You are in the cat bird's seat. ;)

You will also have time to find out if there are any major proplems being found in the 2008 models.

Anyone find it strange why the specs are not out?* If I remember in the past, during CES or right after we knew exactly what the specs were.*

I have a working HLN as well. My 5-year EW will be up next summer, so anything that goes wrong from that point on means I'll be upgrading rather than fixing.

This is interesting. Do you have any more information, links?

Um... the official HL-TXX76 thread. http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=857157

So, I was wondering how important those will be in the next 4-5 years, and if it would be worth passing on this deal and waiting for a 2008. I.e., are the improvements in the HL-T6087S worth $1200 over my 4 year old DLP.

They won't be important. Most hardware that supports 1.3 (besides the PS3) is very expensive. As I said, the color space it adds is indistinguishable to the human eye anyway. Why buy into something that is 1) uberly expensive and 2) you won't even see it with your eyes. Broadcast TV won't support it, which is where 75% of your time will be anyway.

Um... the official HL-TXX76 thread. ...

Did two searches: "experiment" - no hits, "geometry" - 199 hits, but all related to production TVs.

I prefer the Samsung series because of the +100,000 hours life on the LED light engine (uses T-120 Phlatlight LED's), no fan (quiet), instant on and off. The 89s line uses HDMI 1.3a supporting xvYCC (30 bit color), where as 87s uses HDMI 1.2a (24 bit color).

Both displays support 1080P/24hz (87s recent firmware, 89s initial firmware)

Where are you getting 100,000 hours from? Everything I have read says 20,000 hours.....

Just curious:)

Where are you getting 100,000 hours from? Everything I have read says 20,000 hours.....

Just curious:)The 100,000 hour life span may be from Phlatlight for the 2008 version.

For 2006 Samsung claimed 20,000 hours, and for 2007 Samsung claimed "life of the set". Phlatlight claimed 60,000 hours for their 2007 units.

All LED systems require a new light engine if the LED unit fails. A user who has their TV on 12 hours a day should get, on average, 1, 667 days of use from a unit rated at 20,000 hours. Most owner's of the 2006 models will probably get more.

Thanks, htwaits. I figured he meant the 2008 sets.

I am so torn between the getting the 5087S and the 50A3000. I thought buying an HDTV would be fun, rather it has been a headache!

Did two searches: "experiment" - no hits, "geometry" - 199 hits, but all related to production TVs.

OK let me give you a little background.

I've owned a 2006 HL-S5688W. Bottom up projection like all Samsungs. Nearly perfect geometry.

Replaced with a 2007 HL-T5676S. Bottom reflective off roof. New "Slim-Fit" design. Heavily flawed geometry seen in most sets. Non-repairable.

Replaced with a 2007 HL-T5687S. Bottom up projection like all Samsungs. Nearly perfect geometry.

I've owned three sets, and seen just about them all. I've been on the phone with Samsung for well over a year on their problems. I know exactly how their customer support handles any situation (pathetic right?). Samsung went on a limb with their "Slim-fit" gimmick and it's bitten them in the butt. DLPs are fat. Get over it.

Recommended - very good PQ, good blacks, good uniformed brightness. If the 56" works for you size wise great, one to consider!

Between the Sony KDS-xxA3000 series (being phased out) and the Samsung HL-Txx87s/89s series you can do no wrong.

I prefer the Samsung series because of the +100,000 hours life on the LED light engine (uses T-120 Phlatlight LED's), no fan (quiet), instant on and off. The 89s line uses HDMI 1.3a supporting xvYCC (30 bit color), where as 87s uses HDMI 1.2a (24 bit color).

Both displays support 1080P/24hz (87s recent firmware, 89s initial firmware)

John thanks for your input. I will take your recommendations in mind. However I will wait just a little while longer to just make sure that when the new LED line is actually out sometime in April, May, June that a 56" isn't also brought out. In the meantime I will comb the web for more info on whether it is in fact only going to be just 61" and 67" LED tv.

Thanks jim

I have a question that I would like to put out there. First question if there's mention of the Dark chip4 and it maybe being put in the 2008 model. It's said that it has 500,000 to 1. Just how much do we really need? How much is enough for black blacks and white whites. I thought the HLT (2007) looked pretty good. Someone please chime in who owns the HLT LED tv.

Another question is the 240hz that Texas Instruments was showing off at the CES and could be in the new 2008 LED tv's. What would we need that kind of speed for? Also 2007 HLT LED have 120hz which seems to be pretty good there wasn't any complaints on those tv's that refresh rate is too slow. Since all the previous year models on all big screens were 60hz and people somehow survived with tv's watching sports and action movies.

Thanks again jim,

According to technical experts like the ones on CNET and Xtremetech, any contrast over 15000 to 1 or so is not observable to the normal human eye. Higher levels just give bragging rights. Makes sense to me.

As to Hz rates, the holy grail now is 3D, which doubles the work to be done. One eye image uses one frame, the other the next. Thus if you want "true" 120Hz in 3D you need 240Hz. Having seen how good a 120Hz set can look (check out the Toshiba LX177) I can see a reason for that high a rate.

So there is a rationale, although it will probably be a while for this to be a factor since there's no big 3D content available. Personally I doubt that 3D will become popular as long as you need special glasses. I remember 3D movies and that was always the problem there. There are various visual tricks you can pull to give at least a partial impression of depth without that.

This is a really informative thread after all. I was disappointed during and right after CES, but thankfully you guys have continued to contribute info and opinion. . .I'm kind of in the same boat, if I see DC4 and 240Hz in Samsung this year it will be hard to put off replacing my HLN whose contrast is really starting to bother me. At least it looks great for most sports!

With a working HLN set, I would wait for the 2008 sets to get into the market. Then I would also wait for the start the normal price cutting that always goes on. You are in the cat bird's seat. ;)

You will also have time to find out if there are any major proplems being found in the 2008 models.

I'm really starting to think the same thing. While I'd really like to have a new 1080p set to take advantage of my Blu Ray player, and the other advantages of LED, I'm starting to think there is no real reason to rush into it. The PQ on my current set is great, although the bulb now has 5400 hours on it, and is noticeably dimmer, plus has an annoying hum to it until it warms up. But I have a new bulb I can stick in there.

I did feel quite a bit of pressure to do it now, as I had a really good deal on a new 6187 LED DLP, plus what I thought was a pretty good offer to buy my current set ($800). It will only get harder to sell this, especially when the warranty runs out in summer. But, maybe I will just end up keeping it, and moving it to the basement, or at worse selling it for a few hundred less than the current offer.

Patience has never been a virtue of mine, but hopefully it will pay off this time.

Patience has never been a virtue of mine, but hopefully it will pay off this time.With HDTV patience always pays off. ;)

If I were you, I would use the new lamp now. Keep the old lamp for an emergency.

We've given our HL-P5063 to our oldest son. It's also a 720p set that does a very good job with high definition movies fed to it at 720p.

According to technical experts like the ones on CNET and Xtremetech, any contrast over 15000 to 1 or so is not observable to the normal human eye. Higher levels just give bragging rights. Makes sense to me.

As to Hz rates, the holy grail now is 3D, which doubles the work to be done. One eye image uses one frame, the other the next. Thus if you want "true" 120Hz in 3D you need 240Hz. Having seen how good a 120Hz set can look (check out the Toshiba LX177) I can see a reason for that high a rate.

So there is a rationale, although it will probably be a while for this to be a factor since there's no big 3D content available. Personally I doubt that 3D will become popular as long as you need special glasses. I remember 3D movies and that was always the problem there. There are various visual tricks you can pull to give at least a partial impression of depth without that.


Thanks Dave...


jim

It was my understanding that the early iterations of the LED/DLP sets had significantly reduced viewing angles, both horizontal and vertical. Has this problem been solved, so that viewers sitting offcenter can see a bright image over the whole screen?

Thanks,

Wes

It was my understanding that the early iterations of the LED/DLP sets had significantly reduced viewing angles, both horizontal and vertical. Has this problem been solved, so that viewers sitting offcenter can see a bright image over the whole screen?

Thanks,

Wes

I suppose it sort of depends upon "how far" off center you're talking about, but I had a chance to view the 6187S yesterday at Best Buy and was not impressed at all. Now it could have been the setup, but as far as off angle viewing, it wasn't nearly as bright as the same size Sammy sitting next to it that used a bulb.

I suppose it sort of depends upon "how far" off center you're talking about, but I had a chance to view the 6187S yesterday at Best Buy and was not impressed at all. Now it could have been the setup, but as far as off angle viewing, it wasn't nearly as bright as the same size Sammy sitting next to it that used a bulb.

Seeing as I have owned both bulb and LED versions of the 2007 Samsungs, my opinion is that they are equal in viewing angle and brightness. I've used HD broadcast TV, Blu-ray, and PS3 games to make comparisons. I prefer the LED model overall for the technology and the fact it uses the tried and true case (bottom up projection) instead of the "Slim-fit" case, which the bulb models use that introduced major geometry issues.

Again, Samsung needs to dump this "slim-fit" notion. DLPs will always be ~14" deep. Accept it.

cant decide sam 6189s or plasma, looking at panny 58 750u can get for 3400 next couple days or 60 Kura 6010 for 4600. would like plasma but have conerns over reflections. going in a cathedral ceiling room with windows no curtains, half moons and stuff. current direct sun only hits during the day during winter and were not here during the day except weekends and summers, 2nd question is the kuro worth more. money not a probable just dont want to invest so much I feel hung. want the elite but thats 7500. samy 89 or plasma, cant wait too long my hitachi ultravision is going down hill. lines at startup then ok after that its 15 years old, great viewing angle, great PQ. was thinking if not much diff in pany plas and kuro money could go toward sound system but i might be satisfied with kuros sound? i know this is rp forum but you guys sound helpful. thanks in advance. please hurrry that sale may not last.

p.s. when are new 2008 samy dlp expected? pricing?

It was my understanding that the early iterations of the LED/DLP sets had significantly reduced viewing angles, both horizontal and vertical. Has this problem been solved, so that viewers sitting offcenter can see a bright image over the whole screen?

Thanks,

Wes


Laser light sourced DLP solves this because it's so bright. All laser tv's will have very low gain screens, so the viewing angles will be vastly increased.


Laser light sources are described as several orders of magnitude brighter than LED's.

Laser light sourced DLP solves this because it's so bright. All laser tv's will have very low gain screens, so the viewing angles will be vastly increased.

Laser light sources are described as several orders of magnitude brighter than LED's.Laser tv's right now only exist as prototypes. Without real tests on shipping models, all you are repeating is propaganda. As one would say "Where's the beef!"

Luminus' PhlatLight LED technology used in Samsung DLP's has been developing much brighter LED's to replace the very bright T-120's used in the 2007 series for the 2008 series. Reference: "the Series 7 DLP HDTVs improve brightness by more than 40 percent and offer a wider color gamut for delivering a cinematic experience beyond other display technologies"

being that the bulbs will be brighter does anyone think that mabey they will use better screens to reduce sse.?

Interesting article from NYTimes. Betting on a Bright Future for Rear-Projection TVs. (http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/21/business/21texas1.html?ref=business)

"The technology, which was invented in 1987 by Larry Hornbeck, a T.I. engineer, has inherent advantages. Its TV sets weigh less than equivalent-size plasma displays. The sets can be frameless, increasing the size of the display that can fit into a given space. And D.L.P. sets consume less energy than plasma displays, an increasingly important factor as consumers opt for very large sets.

But if Texas Instruments wants to reverse or stem the slide in sales, it needs to attract consumers looking at L.C.D. TVs. D.L.P. sets have a price advantage over L.C.D. and even plasma in screens larger than 50 inches. Mitsubishi’s 70-inch model can be commonly found for $2,500 at online retailers. Plasma and L.C.D. TVs with a 65-inch screen, the closest size, typically cost $5,100 to $6,700.

“The D.L.P. business for us has never been better,” said Frank DeMartin, a Mitsubishi marketing vice president. He expects industry D.L.P. sales for sets 70 inches and larger to double this year, to 180,000 units. Still, that price advantage gets squeezed as the L.C.D. makers cut the costs of producing larger panels. In July, Sharp announced that it would have a plant capable of economically producing 60-inch L.C.D. panels in 2010.

“Then we will have to look at our strategy,” Mr. DeMartin said.

So a lot is riding on the latest version of the D.L.P. chip. The new chip delivers a contrast ratio of 500,000-to-1, up from 20,000-to-1 for the current chip, which makes the image sharper. “Contrast ratio is the big knob of picture quality,” Mr. Darrow said.

The picture will be further improved by new TV sets that use light-emitting diodes and lasers as light sources, rather than bulbs. Mr. Darrow says this year’s D.L.P. sets could have more than twice the brightness of previous models. Depending on the manufacturer, the increased light from these sources can be used either to improve the image’s brightness or to create a more uniform light level across the screen, eliminating the “hot spot” that forces viewers of rear-projection TVs to sit at a particular height to see the best picture.

But the biggest rap against rear-projection TVs is that consumers cannot hang one on the wall as they can with L.C.D. sets. It does not matter that most buyers never mount their TV on a wall. They want to think they can.

To mimic the “hang-on-the-wall” concept of flat panel TVs, Texas Instruments has developed a lightweight prototype set that is less than 7 inches deep, not much different from the depth of today’s flat panel TVs. It has also developed several features to attract game enthusiasts and sports fans. Current D.L.P. sets are able to generate a three-dimensional picture if the user is wearing special glasses and a decoder is attached to a video game console or DVD player.

The company expects to have installed 500,000 3-D-capable sets by February, but that would still be only half the number needed to encourage the movie studios to create high definition, 3-D DVDs.

The same technology offers intriguing possibilities. It can be used to create two different images on a screen simultaneously. When two viewers wear special glasses, each one sees a different scene. In a demonstration at T.I.’s labs here, two video game players raced cars through city streets, each seeing only his own vehicle. While the screen contained two images, each seemed as sharp as would a normal view.

By shrinking the chip even more, Texas Instruments has not only lowered its production costs but opened the way to new applications that could save the technology. In one prototype shown at C.E.S., a miniature projector was incorporated into a device no bigger than a book of matches. Build that into a cellphone, and on-the-go business and entertainment presentations become possible. Put it into a music player and users can project videos against a wall for their friends.

There are a lot of TVs, but there are even more cellphones, digital cameras and other portable hand-held devices.

“All of a sudden,” said Mr. Darrow, “we’re into a market of 100 million game machines, cellphones, iPods, and other portable devices used to consume media.” And no one thinks about mounting those devices on a wall."

Originally posted by JohnAV:
“All of a sudden,” said Mr. Darrow, “we’re into a market of 100 million game machines, cellphones, iPods, and other portable devices used to consume media.” And no one thinks about mounting those devices on a wall."

That statment alone makes me feel RPTV is going away. They are looking at other markets as they should. If TI can shift to another revenue stream, they will. Right now RPTV has kept them alive, but I don't think a 7" DLP can save them. It was tried before with RCA/Infocus.

http://www.amazon.com/InFocus-Thin-Display-TD61-Rear-Projection/dp/B00061V8VS

I remember seeing it. While it gave people the option to mount, you really have almost no choice if you want a functional setup. The had it on about a 10" stand and you could only put a few devices under. For me, that just won't work.

Maybe they can change the design, a lot. It doesn't matter if it's wall mountable if it's not attractive.

That statment alone makes me feel RPTV is going away. They are looking at other markets as they should. If TI can shift to another revenue stream, they will. Right now RPTV has kept them alive, but I don't think a 7" DLP can save them. It was tried before with RCA/Infocus.


DLP isn't keeping TI alive. You have no idea what TI does do you? TI is such a large company and designs so many different important electronic circuits that they are the number 3 semiconductor right behind Intel and Samsung!

Don't make such blanket statements in the future.

Some more tidbits regarding Texas Instruments and their continued support of DLP technology in 2008 Samsung models.

TI Demonstrates 3D TV at CES (http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6517938.html)

"The electronics giant said that its DLP chips represent a step forward for 3D video because of their fast switching speeds. Unlike competing technologies, which reportedly measure their switching speeds in milliseconds, DLP features switching speeds in the microseconds, TI engineers said.

“It’s a couple of orders of magnitude faster than LCD or plasma,” said Ken Bell, TI’s product development manager for DLP TV."

Rear-projection down but not out?
(http://www.bit-tech.net/news/2008/01/22/rear_projection_down_not_out/1)
"Texas Instruments, the developer of the original digital light processor system used in most modern projection systems – both rear and front – has plans to reinvigorate the technology.

The company used its booth at the Consumer Electronics Show last week to showcase teeny-tiny new DLP chips that could help rear-projection sets compete with the elfin depths of LCD TVs, along with a hush-hush demo of projectors small enough to be built in to a mobile phone.

The main hook Texas Instruments is using to draw manufacturers back to rear-projection is contrast ratio: as consumers begin to feel disappointed with the often lacklustre blacks offered by the backlit LCD sets currently on the market, the company is hoping that a 500,000-to-1 contrast ratio will be enough to turn heads. The sets planned for production in the second half of this year will also ditch the traditional bulb-based lighting for a system of LEDs and lasers to double the brightness of the picture and eliminate the hot-spot effect that some DLP sets can suffer from.

The new DLP chips will be adopted by the last few manufactures still supporting rear-projection technology: Toshiba, Samsung, and Mitsubishi. Previous rear-projection stalwarts Seiko Epson, Sony, and Hitachi all ditched the format last year in favour of LCD."

...The new DLP chips will be adopted by the last few manufactures still supporting rear-projection technology: Toshiba, Samsung, and Mitsubishi. Previous rear-projection stalwarts Seiko Epson, Sony, and Hitachi all ditched the format last year in favour of LCD."[/I]

Thanks for this, but TOSHIBA? I thought they dropped out of RP last year.

It's encouraging that there should be new laser/LED sets later this year. My D-ILA is working great so I can happily wait.

Thanks for this, but TOSHIBA? I thought they dropped out of RP last year.

It's encouraging that there should be new laser/LED sets later this year. My D-ILA is working great so I can happily wait.Toshiba still sells the 50HM67, 56HM167, and 65HM167 (http://www.tacp.toshiba.com/televisions/dlp.asp) DLP displays. It will be interesting to see if Toshiba stays in the DLP RPD market using LED or Laser backlights and using the new DarkChip4 in addition to Samsung and Mitsubishi future displays.

man i just want to see some of these goodies.

Hello all!!! Glad ill be getting to know you guys!!!!(new member hehe) but anyway....I think I've made a decision...and I'm NOT getting a DLP(or rear projection) for that matter.I finally....really examined the picture up close and personal. I HATE how the image looks on them....to me they are good for movies and video games. Only thing they have going for em is their sizes and price ranges...but the tech is about 4 yrs from being extinct/dying. Samsung 52" lcd for me....maybe you guys can sway me a bit more...In 2004 I purchased a "crt" 36 sny wega(didn't know about lcd...plasma..well I did but never paid any attention) and I'd hate to buy another tv that's...."dying tech"

Originally posted by mooninite:
DLP isn't keeping TI alive. You have no idea what TI does do you? TI is such a large company and designs so many different important electronic circuits that they are the number 3 semiconductor right behind Intel and Samsung!

Don't make such blanket statements in the future.

I meant in DLP for RPTV application, not their whole product line, which was the context of my post. Thanks for helping me clarify so nobody else misinterprets what I said. I opted for an Atari 400 instead of the TI-99.

Don't make such blanket statements in the future.

Yes Father! :-)

so was anyone at ces to get a glimpse of the new dlp's ?

I meant in DLP for RPTV application, not their whole product line, which was the context of my post. Thanks for helping me clarify so nobody else misinterprets what I said. I opted for an Atari 400 instead of the TI-99.

I was replying to the context of your post. Are you wishing to distort my own post so it benefits you?


Yes Father! :-)
A little correction to your over exaggerated post and I get this? Raise your maturity level a little.

Steve Urkel: Whooaaa calm down there big guy!!

Originally posted by mooninite:
A little correction to your over exaggerated post and I get this? Raise your maturity level a little.

Pot calling kettle black. The irony in your "don't make a definitive statement" is funny. It was quite a definitive statement in itself. It's a public bulletin board. I don’t know why you feel the need to tell me what to do. You are free to read it and agree with my post, disagree, or dismiss it, not tell me not to do it again.

I stand by my state by my statement on DLP and RPTV.

Have a nice day. :-)

Hello all!!! Glad ill be getting to know you guys!!!!(new member hehe) but anyway....I think I've made a decision...and I'm NOT getting a DLP(or rear projection) for that matter.

Good...don't let the door hit you in the butt.

I am pretty certain I will be looking hard at the 67" LED, does anyone know wthat the width and height dimensions are?

I am interested in this technology for right now, in 5 years, I will be looking at the next technology, I am not concerned if DLP is going away in 5 years, all I know it is the best bang for the buck right now for me to get a monster size screen that LCD and Plasma cannot deliver bang for the buck wise.

Also does anyone have a guesstimate on the price of the 67"?

Thanks.

The 67" looks pretty good. I may grab one to replace my 65" CRTRP. I heard the first one off the line is going to the Smithsonian. Doesn't matter, i need a basement beater. Hehe heh..

well a 65 inch is 58" 1/2 on the mitsubishis, so i would guess the width on a 67 would be 60" wide . the one thing i hope that these new tv's have is a low gain screen to reduce sse.

Originally posted by mphtrilogy:
I am pretty certain I will be looking hard at the 67" LED, does anyone know wthat the width and height dimensions are?

I am interested in this technology for right now, in 5 years, I will be looking at the next technology, I am not concerned if DLP is going away in 5 years, all I know it is the best bang for the buck right now for me to get a monster size screen that LCD and Plasma cannot deliver bang for the buck wise.

Also does anyone have a guesstimate on the price of the 67"?

Thanks.

That's the one I will be looking at. I would rather have the 72", but I want to at least see what the LED looks like and is it really that much brighter as announced at CES. Does anyone know if they are using Darkchip4 and is that chip still a wobulated 1080P?

I am also curious about the Mitsubishi Laser DLP, but if they stand by their press statement I think they will price themselves out of the market.

It's hard to give a definitive answer about the DC question. I was told at the Samsung booth that DC4 would not be used but improvements made in the light engine and the brightness of the LEDs allowed for improved PQ and contrast ratio. However, others have said that TI reps said the new Sammys would have DC4.

As no specs have been released, I can't say for certain, but I think it's a safe bet that the chips are still wobulated. With the PQ they've been able to create, they (DLP TV manufacturers) probably don't feel the need to change the chip, especially with the smaller market. I doubt Samsung would make a change that could possibly result in a more expensive television, as price point is RPTV's strong suit. I'd strongly suspect the Laser TV chip is wobulated as well, IMHO.

I can't say for certain, but I think it's a safe bet that the chips are still wobulated. With the PQ they've been able to create, they (DLP TV manufacturers) probably don't feel the need to change the chip, especially with the smaller market. I doubt Samsung would make a change that could possibly result in a more expensive television, as price point is RPTV's strong suit. I'd strongly suspect the Laser TV chip is wobulated as well, IMHO.I agree for the same reasons. ;)

From what I have read, TI does have full 1080P (non-wobulated) DMD chips in professional AV products (3 chip comercial theater projectors); however, they have not developed these in consumer products because the manufactures (Toshiba, Mitsubishi, Samsung) have not stated a demand for them.

As for DC4 I believe it is still wobulated. "The mirror tilt ratios are the same as DarkChip3".
audioholics.com/news/trade-show-coverage/2007-cedia-expo/darkchip4-technology

has anyone heard anymore news on the nnew sammy's?

Some more tidbits regarding Texas Instruments and their continued support of DLP technology in 2008 Samsung models.

TI Demonstrates 3D TV at CES (http://www.designnews.com/blog/1100000110/post/1200020520.html)

"The electronics giant said that its DLP chips represent a step forward for 3D video because of their fast switching speeds. Unlike competing technologies, which reportedly measure their switching speeds in milliseconds, DLP features switching speeds in the microseconds, TI engineers said. ...
JohnAV: I think DesignNews.com changed the link you cite above.

The article can now be found at the following URL:

TI Demonstrates 3D TV at CES
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6517938.html

Avio

JohnAV: I think DesignNews.com changed the link you cite above.

The article can now be found at the following URL:

TI Demonstrates 3D TV at CES
http://www.designnews.com/article/CA6517938.html

AvioThanks, updated previous message. Found a another CES story from hometoys.com about Luminus and Texas Instruments joining forces (http://www.hometoys.com/news.php4?section=view&id=19733925).

"Among the prototypes being demonstrated at the DLP products booth at CES (Central Hall, Booth #8205) is a slim DLP HDTV illuminated using PhlatLight LED technology. The DLP TV, features a contrast ratio beyond 500,000:1, is ultra light and thin for easy wall mounting and due to the increased brightness, can use new screen technology doubling the viewing angle to match viewing angles of other flat screen technology.

“Our continual improvements in brightness have opened up a new realm of display product categories previously thought impossible with conventional LEDs,” said Christian Hoepfner, vice president of products at Luminus Devices, Inc. “With the brightness levels we’ve reached with TI so far, we’re on track to break the one thousand lumen mark this year with a front projector. This achievement marks a significant breakthrough, not only in terms of performance, but also in the creation of exciting new large screen HDTVs and home theater projectors.”

Displays illuminated by PhlatLight produce a forty percent wider color gamut than the NTSC standard without the need for a color wheel. PhlatLight’s unique ability to create pure, primary colors that are sequentially pulsed at speeds up to 48 times the traditional television frame rate, produces stable, accurate colors, and a smooth picture, with superior motion quality. PhlatLight LEDs offer significantly longer lifetimes than arc lamps used in most microdisplays, to deliver a consistent picture without fading. Since lamp warm-up time is unnecessary, the picture appears instantly at full brightness. PhlatLight-illuminated DLP TVs are also more environmentally friendly because they consume one third the energy of comparably sized flat panel TVs and eliminate the conventional lamp that requires repeated replacement during the lifetime of the TV."

whats 'cross talk'? Also i think more and more movies will be in 3D because the new Toy Story movie will be in 3-D!!!

whats 'cross talk'? Also i think more and more movies will be in 3D because the new Toy Story movie will be in 3-D!!!Well the newer DLP-based sets from Mitsubishi and Samsung are all set for watching 3D movies, now its up to the studios to offer enough content for most consumer to take the plunge. $200 for a stereoscopic adapter and LCD shutter glasses is not much to spend for the AV enthusiast. Of course this would upset a lot of people with brand new HDTV displays that are not 3D capable. I see that in 2008 we will see our first 3D plasma and LCD flat panels. Here's hoping that U2-3D and Toy story start a new trend! :)

Well, Im subbing to this thread. Im planning on a new tv in July and the current 61" LED DLP appears to be a very nice set on the BBuy floor. Hoping the new models coming soon improve on the 2007's. If so, Ill be the proud owner of a new 61". If not, Might go with the 50" Plasma. Would rather have the added size of the DLP.

I have the same thought process.. I'd rather have 61 inch DLP than 50 inch plasma for the same money..
My speakers and stand take up space.. Going flat makes no sense to me..

I have the same thought process.. I'd rather have 61 inch DLP than 50 inch plasma for the same money..
My speakers and stand take up space.. Going flat makes no sense to me..


Im gonna sit fast and just see how it unfolds. I think Im down to the 61" Sammy when the new line comes out, or a Mitsu 57833. All depends on what kinds of deals each one has around July.

Wow...I didn't know about this 3D technology. Which, considering my background (I loved virtual technology and 3D concepts), I should of been on top of this.

My girlfriend and I are planning on getting a house by this time next year, and these new Samsung sets sound impressive to say the least. I'm an LCD guy, but considering the cost to size ratio (and the other features, i.e. 3D), I will make an exception for these.

Now, to be clear, the content / programming still has to be designed for the 3D technology, correct? Is there a list of current and/or upcoming content?

I was going to go with the 61", but if there is enough content, I might decide to go all the way for the 67".

Wow...I didn't know about this 3D technology. Which, considering my background (I loved virtual technology and 3D concepts), I should of been on top of this.

My girlfriend and I are planning on getting a house by this time next year, and these new Samsung sets sound impressive to say the least. I'm an LCD guy, but considering the cost to size ratio (and the other features, i.e. 3D), I will make an exception for these.

Now, to be clear, the content / programming still has to be designed for the 3D technology, correct? Is there a list of current and/or upcoming content?

I was going to go with the 61", but if there is enough content, I might decide to go all the way for the 67".

Actually, the current 3-D kits require a PC DVI connection, I believe from an HTPC. There has been at least one written report that says, using an HTPC with the software, it will generate a 3-D image from any 2-D source. The 3-D effect won't be as convincing as from dedicated 3-D material, but it'll still be more 3-D than 2-D!

Actually, the current 3-D kits require a PC DVI connection, I believe from an HTPC. There has been at least one written report that says, using an HTPC with the software, it will generate a 3-D image from any 2-D source. The 3-D effect won't be as convincing as from dedicated 3-D material, but it'll still be more 3-D than 2-D!I'm rather curious to how good the 3-D imagery will be for in-home displays using active 3-D glasses. The DLP folks created this page on Digital 3D (http://www.dlp.com/cinema/new.aspx?CMP=KNC-reprisegoogle&HBX_PK=DLP+3D&HBX_OU=50).

.

.

I'm going to post three more pictures of the 67" LED Samsung, but before I do I wanted to personally thank Steve Panosian, Digital Projection Marketing Director for Samsung, for taking the time to talk to me about these sets and allowing a few pictures to be taken of them.

This is the fifth year I've attended CES, and you've no idea of some of the attitudes you get walking around asking questions and taking pictures--one of the reasons CES can be tiring mentally and physically.

He didn't have to talk to a small-time consultant, but he did--and for that I am very grateful.

thank u so much!!

No problem at all. I don't know if you can see it very well, but the blurred picture on the adjacent set is due to the 3D demonstration, which was also running at the TI booth.

I was told the 67" set would retail for $3000.

No problem at all. I don't know if you can see it very well, but the blurred picture on the adjacent set is due to the 3D demonstration, which was also running at the TI booth.

I was told the 67" set would retail for $3000.

Thanks for the pics. Did they mention exactly when they would be rolling out the 08 models?

I was told they should be out by April.

Thanks for the pics. Did they mention exactly when they would be rolling out the 08 models?Welcome Ivan244. If you check first post on page 1 of this topic (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=971265) it has as much information as we currently know about the HLxxA650/A70 series with the release dates mentioned by Samsung.

Thanks for the pictures TetsujinWave!

man that tv looks gorgeous. thanks for the pics man. this is info i have been needing. also on a personal one on one with the tv how was the pic. quality ,and did you notice any sse? just curious. also thanks again for the info.

thanks for the pics.. looks nice ! (If I can just force myself to wait). Did you happen to ask if they've fixed the possibility of bowing that has plagued some of the older thin bezel sets ?

Im looking forward to seeing how these sets look. Gonna be a tough decision on what tv to buy this summer.

The LED had excellent PQ. There was still some SSE, but it looked reduced compared to last year's models.

At CES, one thing was very obvious concerning television technologies--many people are looking past rear-projection televisions and buying plasma or LCD flat panels. This is also true of a lot of consumer electronics manufacturers, who see higher profit margins with flatscreens as opposed to RPTV's.

TI had to go out of its way to show the value of projection systems, and was (IMHO) very successful through new applications like 3D, dualview, and mini-projectors. RPTV's still offer excellent value and PQ to consumers, and it will be interesting to see if they can hold (or even grow) their market share thanks to these innovations.

So if the 67" is $3000, will they have the 61" 1080p close to two and a half?

So if the 67" is $3000, will they have a 57" 1080p close to two?

As far as we know the LED sets will only be sold in two sizes, 61 and 67. At least that's one way to read their rather ambiguous press release (see the beginning of this thread). Smaller sizes look like they might be hot lamp and color wheel. We should have more precise information on the Samsung website by April.

So if the 67" is $3000, will they have the 61" 1080p close to two and a half?

And how about the 72"?

72 is not LED.


And how about the 72"?

As far as we know the LED sets will only be sold in two sizes, 61 and 67. At least that's one way to read their rather ambiguous press release (see the beginning of this thread). Smaller sizes look like they might be hot lamp and color wheel. We should have more precise information on the Samsung website by April.


Yeah, I noticed I goofed and changed the original post.

61" would be my baby of choice if I go the LED DLP route.

The current LED DLP Sammy in BBuy does not look bad, so if they improve it oughta be a great tv.

thanks for the pics.. looks nice ! (If I can just force myself to wait). Did you happen to ask if they've fixed the possibility of bowing that has plagued some of the older thin bezel sets ?

There weren't any noticeable geometry errors on the DLP sets at the Samsung booth, but I wouldn't expect them to. The true test will happen when they reach production.

I generally do not ask about flaws in the models that are being replaced. First, the majority of representatives (at most consumer electronics companies, not just Samsung) tend to be PR based, and are not engineers. As such, they might not be aware of an issue and not inclined to comment on it if they are. Second, it antagonizes the reps and makes them less likely give you good information (or future interviews). Lastly, they are there to sell the new models, not the old ones.

Hi, I'm also interested in this TV. Did you notice if the screen looked uniform and how was the black levels on this TV?
Thanks

The screen was uniform. The blacks looked fine, but the clip being shown was a bright, vivid CG cityscape sequence that didn't really test the blacks that much. The colors (which the clip was trying to accentuate) were vibrant and rich.

Thanks for the info TW.. and in hindsight your thought process makes good sense... I wouldn't go up to a sony booth and say 'but what about the green blobs'... lol

Not sure if these tv's will be available in Canada at the same time as US and I can't wait much longer anyhow...

thanks again !

Samsung had the 87/89 LED models here in Canada quite soon after they appeared in the States. I was watching for them.

The screen was uniform. The blacks looked fine, but the clip being shown was a bright, vivid CG cityscape sequence that didn't really test the blacks that much. The colors (which the clip was trying to accentuate) were vibrant and rich.

Thanks for all your posts.

Since they are supposed to be brighter, I am hoping for better off angle viewing. I know some disagree but imo current models are not quite as good as bulb rptv in this regard. Obviously you didn't have an 87s side by side, but did off-angle viewing appear better? Did it appear to be a lower gain screen?

You mentioned sse looked reduced, making me hopeful this is the case.

I could see from the beginnings of the 87/89 thread that those sets were shipped in early April '07. What I couldn't find was when the first real information about those sets was available (I'm mostly interested in dimensions, also of course the internal tech). Does anyone remember? It would give a clue as to when similar info will be available on the 650/750s.

No problem at all. I don't know if you can see it very well, but the blurred picture on the adjacent set is due to the 3D demonstration, which was also running at the TI booth.

I was told the 67" set would retail for $3000.

Thanks, Tetsujin, and JohnAV! I may have missed it already within these pages, but will ask this question anyway. Any price ideas on 72" and 7 series 67" DLP's?

I was just about to buy Pioneer 6010FD Plasma, b4 I read this post. THANKS AGAIN :D

This thread definitely has me reconsidering my plan to buy the 6187. We are moving into a new townhome in late March and had planned on buying the 6187 at that time. But I'll definitely wait if the new 61" comes in April, and is priced $2500 or less.

This thread definitely has me reconsidering my plan to buy the 6187. We are moving into a new townhome in late March and had planned on buying the 6187 at that time. But I'll definitely wait if the new 61" comes in April, and is priced $2500 or less.

I think there has been an improvement on off angle viewing and SSE. It doesn't equal LCD off angle viewing by any means, but it is better than last year's models. I am not sure about the lower gain screen, but again, SSE had been reduced.

Thanks, Tetsujin, and JohnAV! I may have missed it already within these pages, but will ask this question anyway. Any price ideas on 72" and 7 series 67" DLP's?

I was just about to buy Pioneer 6010FD Plasma, b4 I read this post. THANKS AGAIN :D

I was told the 67" would retail for $3000. They did not give a clear retail price on the 72".

I think there has been an improvement on off angle viewing and SSE. It doesn't equal LCD off angle viewing by any means, but it is better than last year's models. I am not sure about the lower gain screen, but again, SSE had been reduced.

Thank you very much again for all the info and taking time to post pictures. I was hoping you'd say this.

In your last set of pics the 3rd one sure makes it look like the off angle is better. But since it's impossible to tell with pics, especially really bright screenshots, your opinion means much more :)

[QUOTE=TetsujinWave; I was told the 67" would retail for $3000. They did not give a clear retail price on the 72".[/QUOTE]

THANK YOU, TW! If I said that New 6 Series are NOT LED, and 7 series ARE, would that be accurate? Or is there other differences?

And what is your opinion of these TV's compared to mtsu's Laser DLP's?

I think there has been an improvement on off angle viewing and SSE. It doesn't equal LCD off angle viewing by any means, but it is better than last year's models. I am not sure about the lower gain screen, but again, SSE had been reduced.



I was told the 67" would retail for $3000. They did not give a clear retail price on the 72".

hey t.w you are the **** bro. i am a mits tv fan , and i have never bought a samsung product but i have noticed latley that the samsungs pq looks sharper then the mits. so this may be my first samsung purchase.

Lets wait until both products are released and then we ask this question again?



And what is your opinion of these TV's compared to mtsu's Laser DLP's?

Lets wait until both products are released and then we ask this question again?

For certain.

I think both sets show a great deal of promise. As I said earlier, I was a bit disappointed in the thickness of the laser tv, because I'd been led to believe they'd be much smaller. The picture quality was very impressive. Speckle did not seem to be an issue and the colors were spectacular.

THANK YOU, TW! If I said that New 6 Series are NOT LED, and 7 series ARE, would that be accurate? Or is there other differences?

And what is your opinion of these TV's compared to mtsu's Laser DLP's?The series 6 are bulb models and the series 7 are LED models.
There simply is not enough information available to state what the other differences are.

As everyone is saying it is way too soon to make a fair comparison between 2008 LED DLP models and some preproduction Laser TV's.

Am I right that the 7 series (w/LED) do not include 50" anymore??
That implies that 50" LED models stop with the current x87/x89??

Am I right that the 7 series (w/LED) do not include 50" anymore??
That implies that 50" LED models stop with the current x87/x89??

Only 61 and 67 from reading this thread.

hey t.w did you notice if the new sammy's were using some kind of motion processing like how the sony a3000 uses?

I didn't see anything like that outside of the 240Hz prototype at the TI booth. I'm not sure that the DLP chips need that kind of processing because they are quite a bit faster than the SXRD chips were WRT response time.

So no, I didn't see anything like that advertized on the 6 and 7 models. This is the first year since 1080p DLP sets have been available that I didn't see a 50" or a 56" model displayed at the Samsung booth.

Wasn't the 240Hz feature included just to improve the 3D feature, having 120Hz screens on each eye instead of 60Hz?

i think it would be nice if they had motion processing in the new dlp. i just kind of like the way it makes the picture look , but most importantly is pq overall , and price.

I suspect the reason they don't have the smaller size DLPs is because the larger ones are where they really have a price advantage over flat panels.

Could be wrong, of course.

Wasn't the 240Hz feature included just to improve the 3D feature, having 120Hz screens on each eye instead of 60Hz?

No, the 240Hz prototype was demonstrating motion improvement in video. It may have been on the 3D and DualView demo sets as well, but they weren't advertizing it in that way, IIRC.

the game begins, thank you for some great info and pics. :)

Would this be the 2nd or 3rd generation LED RPTV's from Samsung?

Would this be the 2nd or 3rd generation LED RPTV's from Samsung?

2nd.

Would this be the 2nd or 3rd generation LED RPTV's from Samsung?

3rd gen. The HL-S5679W was the first generation 1080p LED DLP in 2006, although it became tough to find a few months after its release.

3rd gen. The HL-S5679W was the first generation 1080p LED DLP in 2006, although it became tough to find a few months after its release.

Ooops, sorry. I thought we were heading into the 2nd gen.

i think now that the superbowl is over we will start to hear more info on the new sammy.

3rd gen. The HL-S5679W was the first generation 1080p LED DLP in 2006, although it became tough to find a few months after its release.Correct. The HL-S5679W was a lot dimmer, and suffered green push compared to the 2007 xx87s/xx89s series. The HLxxA650/A750 is the third generation.

Correct. The HL-S5679W was a lot dimmer, and suffered green push compared to the 2007 xx87s/xx89s series. ..

Also with severe side-angle fade. I was very disappointed when I first saw one. It was encouraging to see the improvements in the 87/89s, but to my eye they are still worse than conventional RPs for angle fade. Some of their owners seem happy tho, which is great.

But LED RP is still obviously a work in progress which is why I'm waiting with interest to see what's coming. I suspect I'll be meeting my next HDTV, although my present one is just fine so I can wait.

i think now that the superbowl is over we will start to hear more info on the new sammy.Its not raining information yet, but here's a bit of information:
2 February 2008
Samsung Series 6 DLP HDTV - 4 New Models for 2008 (http://www.hometechanswers.com/hdtv/hdtvnewsblog/archives/707)
Expanding on the introduction of the world's first 3D-ready DLP HDTVs in 2007, Samsung Electronics have announced the introduction of four new models in their Series 6 lineup.

The Series 6 DLP HDTVs will be available from April 2008 in 50 inch, 56 inch, 61 inch and 72 inch sizes.

The new Series 6 DLP HDTVs offer consumers increased value while integrating innovative features that lead Samsung’s portfolio of Micro Display and Flat Panel HDTV offerings for 2008.

The Series 6 DLP HDTVs not only feature larger screens and Full HD 1080p clarity for sports, movies and gaming, they also offer the latest in networking and 3D technologies.

Housed in a slim cabinet with a narrow bezel, the Series 6’s hidden speakers make it aesthetically pleasing, as well as technologically advanced.

Multimedia users will enjoy easy functionality with portable devices. MP3 players, PMPs, and thumb drives can all be used via the HDTV’s WiseLink USB 2.0 input, while three HDMI-CEC side ports make it easy to plug in Blu-ray, HD-DVD players, HD camcorders and game consoles for immediate use.

2 February 2008
Samsung Series 7 LED DLP HDTV - 2 New Models for 2008 (http://www.hometechanswers.com/hdtv/hdtvnewsblog/archives/708)
Following on from the successful introduction of the world's first 3D ready DLP HDTV in 2007, Samsung Electronics have announced the addition of two new models to their Series 7 LED DLP HDTV range. The HL61A750 and HL67A750 61 inch and 67 inch respective models will be available in April and June 2008.

Samsung’s Series 7 DLP HDTV has one of the most environmentally conscious designs on the market today. Consumers will find that this series’ new Cinema Pure™ Color Engine powered by the long-lasting Generation 2.4 LED consistently outperforms its traditional lamp-based counterparts, delivering outstanding picture quality and continuous light output rated at over 60,000 hours.

Energy Star® compliance addresses efficiency while these state of the art HDTVs consumes approximately half the power of a 60-inch class plasma HDTV.

This new LED DLP sets typically do not require interval lamp replacement and combined with low power consumption results in a lower cost of ownership for the consumer. At the same time, the Series 7 DLP HDTVs improve brightness by more than 40 percent and offer a wider color gamut for delivering a cinematic experience beyond other display technologies —all while using only 230 watts of power, resulting in both a “Greener HDTV” energy consumption and cost of ownership message to the consumer.

Adding to the functionality of our Series 7 DLP TVs is Simplay HDMI compliance, a new Remote with specially designed “hot keys”, and a new simplified user interface and menu system. The result of these enhancements enables control over all HDMI-CEC-compatible A/V devices for a simplified total system convenience experience.

WiseLink 2.0 (USB) with codec support for MP3 and JPEG enables consumers to easily access files from their portable media and display the files on a brilliant big screen HDTV. The Series 7 DLP TVs will also feature a 1 Tuner PIP function.

Heres a question. Im very interested in the LED versions, BUT I really have no interest in a 61".

Would the series 6 50" and 56" be a solid tv? Im asking because Ive never owned a DLP tv before.

Heres a question. Im very interested in the LED versions, BUT I really have no interest in a 61".

Would the series 6 50" and 56" be a solid tv? Im asking because Ive never owned a DLP tv before.

in my opinion this a great tv . the picture is real bright and sharp . you cant go wrong, but on the other hand you may have to replace a bulb down the line , for me this is no problem unless your on the tv for 10 hours a day, other then that there should not be a problem.

hey john , nice find . thankyou.

Still researching, close to just buying a HLT5089

I Just hope that this RPTV has split screen PIP(no letterbox- so that all the screen is used), with possible dual HDMI allowed to feed the PIP.

Still cannot believe the 50 and 56" will be bulb w/ color wheel for 2008. Seems like a step back to me since they had those sizes in LED for 2007.

To me, a color wheel is just another piece that has a better chance to go bad (read: spinning). Add to that the potential for rainbows, having to replace the bulb at some point (I know they do last a long time)...and I am just stunned they are even offering bulb + color wheel for thier 2008 line-up.

I am in the market for a 56" (custome entertainment center, so kind of stuck)...and was really looking forward to the 2008 LED. Guess I will have to grab one of the 2007.

Good luck to all.

Rob

I have a sneaking suspicion that the only reason that they are leaving lamps/color wheels in the mix is because the parts have already been made and are sitting in a warehouse somewhere. They would otherwise have to buy fresh new phlatlights, so they will use the existence of conventional lamps to charge a premium for the LED versions. It might make sense to maximize profits in the short term, but it is likely to leave the lingering stink of rainbow and bulb replacement over the entire RP market.
Which will of course assist in killing off the thrifty RP market in the end and force the consumer into either very pricey big LCD/plasmas or into the still bulb-happy front projector market.http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/images/smilies/mad.gif
:mad:

in my opinion this a great tv . the picture is real bright and sharp . you cant go wrong, but on the other hand you may have to replace a bulb down the line , for me this is no problem unless your on the tv for 10 hours a day, other then that there should not be a problem.

Bulb price does not bother me honestly.

Ive heard DLP's were great on blacks, and Id love a 56" -61" dlp over a 50" plasma if its comparable. I think Panny's 30000:1 plasma coming at a rumored $2299 will be a problem for DLP.

Still cannot believe the 50 and 56" will be bulb w/ color wheel for 2008. Seems like a step back to me since they had those sizes in LED for 2007.

To me, a color wheel is just another piece that has a better chance to go bad (read: spinning). Add to that the potential for rainbows, having to replace the bulb at some point (I know they do last a long time)...and I am just stunned they are even offering bulb + color wheel for thier 2008 line-up.

I am in the market for a 56" (custome entertainment center, so kind of stuck)...and was really looking forward to the 2008 LED. Guess I will have to grab one of the 2007.

Good luck to all.

RobAlthough they are offering new models to the mix during April 2008 thru June 2008, it will probably be quite awhile before the 2007 LED DPL models (xx87s/xx89s) are no longer available.

Bulb price does not bother me honestly.

Ive heard DLP's were great on blacks, and Id love a 56" -61" dlp over a 50" plasma if its comparable. I think Panny's 30000:1 plasma coming at a rumored $2299 will be a problem for DLP.Since we don't know the pricing of the series 6 and 7 models, it might be a problem or not. The xx87s series has been heavily discounted, way below what you would expect.

Since we don't know the pricing of the series 6 and 7 models, it might be a problem or not. The xx87s series has been heavily discounted, way below what you would expect.

True.

If the 7 models are at a good price point, Ill bite and just buy a bigger tv than I want :D

i wonder if costco will carry the new 67" again, that would be schweet!

[QUOTE=ElwayLite;13033500]True.

If the 7 models are at a good price point, Ill bite and just buy a bigger tv than I want :D[/QUOTE yea no dought , same for me. i prefer to get the led over the bulb , even though the bulb is not an issue. you mentioned panny's new plasma , but i live in colorado and the elevation is bad for plasma , also after awhile plasmas start to fade out. at least with dlp all i have to do is buy a new bulb. i also want the new led model because i am sensitive to rainbows, but i can tolerate it.

Hello all...new to the forums here. I had narrowed down my purchase to the Samsung HLT6187SAX, until I found this thread that is :D

I think I might hold out for the 2008 7 series models.

Any idea if the dimensions of these TV's are available? I would prefer the 67" but unfortunately that's the exact width I have to work with for where I'd be placing it. Now I know that's diagonal length, but I doubt the width would be less than this.

And if I was reading correctly, was it stated that the 61" would be coming out in April and the 67" in June? Thanks.

For dimensions and price we'll have to wait until Samsung puts these sets on their website. From what I see, the bezels seem a little wider than the 87/89 sets, but we'll see.

For availability, we should wait too. Sometimes these introductions don't work out as planned.

Any idea if the dimensions of these TV's are available? I would prefer the 67" but unfortunately that's the exact width I have to work with for where I'd be placing it. Now I know that's diagonal length, but I doubt the width would be less than this.Your doubt is missplaced. The 67" set will be close to 60" wide. The screen is ~58" wide based on it's diagonal. For the total width add 2x the bezel width. If the bezel is 1" wide, a 67" set will be 60" wide.

Your doubt is missplaced. The 67" set will be close to 60" wide. The screen is ~58" wide based on it's diagonal. For the total width add 2x the bezel width. If the bezel is 1" wide, a 67" set will be 60" wide.Just for comparison the 56" display is 50.4" wide and the 61" is 54.8" wide. According to same ratio's the 67" will be 60.3" wide and a 72" will be 64.8" wide. :)

Just for comparison the 56" display is 50.4" wide and the 61" is 54.8" wide. According to same ratio's the 67" will be 60.3" wide and a 72" will be 64.8" wide. :)Right. ;)

I use .87 x the diagonal for the width, and .48 x the diagonal for the height which is basically the same method.

Even though I'm not in the RPTV market any longer, I hope Samsung builds a stronger case this year. That would include a bezel wider than .5".

Awesome, thanks for the info!

Awesome, thanks for the info!You're welcome.

Enjoy. :)

is this tv gonna be that much of a jump over their lamp based tv's?

is this tv gonna be that much of a jump over their lamp based tv's?I think that depends on how you define "much of a jump."

I own a 2007 Samsung HL-T5689S LED based RPTV with HDMI 1.3, CEC, USB 2.0, xyVCC.

The xx87/89S LED series was a huge "jump" over lamp IMO:

- Almost instant on
- Excellent PQ
- "Life of the set" LED light engine
- Very accurate color
- Very fast response time [16 microsecond]
- No mechanical color wheel to cause noise or repairs
- "Green" design; no mercury bulb & less than 1 watt standby
- Low power consumption; low heat
- Light weight to reduce "carbon" footprint (shipping)
- More...

Avio

I think that depends on how you define "much of a jump."

I own a 2007 Samsung HL-T5689S LED based RPTV with HDMI 1.3, CEC, USB 2.0, xyVCC.

The xx87/89S LED series was a huge "jump" over lamp IMO:

- Almost instant on
- Excellent PQ
- "Life of the set" LED light engine
- Very accurate color
- Very fast response time [16 microsecond]
- "Green" design; no mercury bulb & less than 1 watt standby
- Low power consumption; low heat
- Light weight to reduce "carbon" footprint (shipping)
- More...

Avio
well that pretty much sums it up. thanks

in the new models will there be a two models like last years led 87/89s ?

in the new models will there be a two models like last years led 87/89s ?Yes, I get it.

IMO, the bulb is the past; LED (or laser, or other) is the future (or present).

Avio

in the new models will there be a two models like last years led 87/89s ?

i guess i better look at what i type before i click send, that does not make sense to me. lol

avio , would you agree that the picture is brighter and more colorful then the bulb based tv? also my heart was set on the mitsubishi 833 at first , but i noticed that the samsung tv's looked sharper, and brighter . would you also agree on this or is there something that mits is not showing me. your thoughts?

i guess i better look at what i type before i click send, that does not make sense to me. lolRead the first post in this thread for the best available information about the 2008 models.

avio , would you agree that the picture is brighter and more colorful then the bulb based tv?That wasn't the case for the 2007 models. Now it's the wait and "see for yourself" time of the year. :rolleyes:

...The xx87/89S LED series was a huge "jump" over lamp IMO:

- Almost instant on
- Excellent PQ
- "Life of the set" LED light engine
- Very accurate color
- Very fast response time [16 microsecond]
- "Green" design; no mercury bulb & less than 1 watt standby
- Low power consumption; low heat
- Light weight to reduce "carbon" footprint (shipping)
...

I agree with all of these except you missed out the one thing I don't like, the side angle drop-off. The 750s are supposed to be better. I'll be watching.

well that pretty much sums it up. thanks

yes, his opinion...

i guess i better look at what i type before i click send, that does not make sense to me. lolSorry... I guess I better read the question more carefully before I click send. :o You're right; my answer made no sense. :) Avio

avio , would you agree that the picture is brighter and more colorful then the bulb based tv? also my heart was set on the mitsubishi 833 at first , but i noticed that the samsung tv's looked sharper, and brighter . would you also agree on this or is there something that mits is not showing me. your thoughts?nesto719: I don't feel qualified to answer your questions.

I'm a 2007 LED RPTV owner and an AV/HT/Technology enthusiast, not a CE dealer, tech or pro, like many here.

Avio

avio , would you agree that the picture is brighter and more colorful then the bulb based tv? also my heart was set on the mitsubishi 833 at first , but i noticed that the samsung tv's looked sharper, and brighter . would you also agree on this or is there something that mits is not showing me. your thoughts?Brightness is similar, maybe not as bright as the some bulb DLP's, but LED based displays offer a wider color gamut then bulb DLP's. If the 2008 models offer 30 to 40% increased brightness then it would no longer be a issue.

To some reviewers a overly bright display can generate spectacular whites, but be hard to watch for sustained periods.

I've always run my D-ILA at less than half brightness until the lamp is near the end of it's life, so this isn't a big issue for me, except off-center on the 87/89s.

so is there a reason why the sammy's look sharper then the mits? is it better processing or mabey the different chip layout. just curious?

so is there a reason why the sammy's look sharper then the mits? is it better processing or mabey the different chip layout. just curious?Probably Samsung's sixth generation of DNie (Five image processors and a six-times density enhancer) versus Mitsubshi's Plush1080P processing.

Again, I will not confirm I will buy unless one of two things happen.

1. The new LED model is CHEAP

Or

2. It has the DC4

I hope it's 2