Well, you would be incorrect (not the first time that has happened).

Sunshine - MPEG4 AVC (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/1220/sunshine.html)

Master & Commander - MPEG4 AVC (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/605/masterandcommander.html)

I Robot - MPEG4 AVC (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/613/irobot.html)

Los Angeles — Twentieth Century Fox Home Entertainment (TCFHE) said it will ship six movie catalog favorites in the Blu-ray Disc format during the first quarter of 2008.


The titles include the BD debut of “Ice Age,” “Independence Day,” “I, Robot,” “Man On Fire,” “Wall Street,” and “Me, Myself and Irene.”


Highlights among the titles include a Blu-ray exclusive trivia track and BD-Java-enabled video game called Alien Scavenger Hunt with the “Independence Day” release, which is slated for March 11. The game challenges players to correctly identify items in select scenes to unlock additional bonus features.


“Ice Age,” which is slated for a March 4 release, will be authored in MPEG2 compression and presented on a 25GB disc with English 5.1 DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and French and Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound. Bonus features include: a commentary by director Chris Wedge and co-director Carlos Saldanha; deleted scenes with commentary by Wedge and Saldanha; a theatrical teaser and trailer.


“I, Robot,” which will street on March 11, will feature direct access to in-movie features through one of the four colored buttons on the BD remote that allows viewers to quickly access the enormous amount of bonus materials on the disc including commentaries, production diaries, extended and deleted scenes, trivia and more.


“Man On Fire,” which is due Jan. 8, is authored in BD-Java using MPEG2 compression and presented on a 50GB dual layer disc with English 5.1 DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and French and Spanish 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound.


“Wall Street,” will street Feb. 5, authored in MPEG2 compression and presented on a 50GB dual layer disc with English 5.1 DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and English, French and Spanish subtitles. Bonus features include: a commentary and intro by Oliver Stone; a Greed Is Good featurette; deleted scenes with commentary by Stone; and Money Never Sleeps – the making of Wall Street.

“Me, Myself and Irene,” will also street on Feb. 5, authored in MPEG2 compression and presented on a 25GB disc with English 5.1 DTS HD Lossless Master Audio and French 5.1 Dolby Digital Sound. Bonus features include deleted scenes with optional commentary by Bobby Farrelly and Peter Farrelly and theatrical trailers.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6517200.html

Why do you think there were two HDM formats in the first place? For the royalty/patent income streams!

It was to give the consumers a better choice!

Hahahaha... no, no, I'm kidding, I'm kidding...

No hidden agenda - make money, make money, make money! Tactics to achieve this may be kept confidential, but the goal is quite clear.

Why do you think there were two HDM formats in the first place? For the royalty/patent income streams!

Eureka!!

Another person gets it! :D Glad I was not the only one.

“Ice Age,” which is slated for a March 4 release, will be authored in MPEG2 compression and presented on a 25GB disc


Cheapskates! Still, if true, it'll be interesting how good it does or doesn't look.

Umm, no, even the pro-HD DVD insiders acknowledge that the war is over.

Actually I don't think that is accurate. The only way that would be true is if the remaining studios left HD DVD and there were zeros studios releasing HD DVD movies.

Only then is this so called war over.

Don't get me wrong...I don't want to see it drag out forever and ever. But claiming victory now is pretty foolish.

HD DVD is in check. Not check mate.

Why do people like you complain so much about Blu-Ray profiles? DVD has gone through similar iterations (read: "profiles") in terms of features:


Grasping for reasons to justify hatred of on format over another. If the two formats were identical (which, for most people, they practically are), there'd be people saying that blue is an inferior color.

FWIW:


Link to article: Toshiba says HD DVD has not lost out to Blu-ray (http://www.reuters.com/article/technologyNews/idUSN0734149020080107)

This reminds me of Peter Moore just before Sega dropped the Dreamcast.:rolleyes:

No, no its not :P

CES for them has been so quiet, the majority of Toshiba's keynote was about televisions and they didn't take Q&A after. Other than samsung, no other company so far has mentioned HD-DVD at all. That combined with the majority of the media proclaiming its death and its going to be pretty hard to come back from all the bad PR.
Its like watching Baghdad Bob all over again :P

I think its sad. At least with Sega, they admitted they couldn't compete. All Toshiba wants to do is rip off more customers with their HDDVD players. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.

Cheapskates! Still, if true, it'll be interesting how good it does or doesn't look.
Ice Age: The Meltdown was rated near perfect in PQ by HighDefDigest (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/iceagemeltdown.html), despite also being MPEG-2.

Lee doesn't realize that you could walk up and ask 100 people on the street what a "codec" is, and 99 of them would give you a blank stare. As long as the picture quality is great, people don't give a second thought to what archaic acronym (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC, VC-1) is on the back cover of the case.

yea but Warner IS NOT THE BIGGEST STUDIO, the Largest is movie studio with the biggest catalog is Universal which is still with HD-DVD, until then there is gonna always be a format war, unless Univeral ends it

Its dead, Jim. Support HDDVD if you want to throw away good money, its your perogative.

Lee doesn't realize that you could walk up and ask 100 people on the street what a "codec" is, and 99 of them would give you a blank stare. As long as the picture quality is great, people don't give a second thought to what archaic acronym (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC, VC-1) is on the back cover of the case.

And rightly so. Technically, it shouldn't matter whether it's a high-bitrate MPEG2 or lower-bitrate MPEG4/VC-1. The devil's in the details.

I think its sad. At least with Sega, they admitted they couldn't compete. All Toshiba wants to do is rip off more customers with their HDDVD players. Fool me once shame on you, fool me twice shame on me.
Please explain how TOSHIBA is ripping off customers :confused:

This may have been Toshiba's last chance to salvage something from this as far as reassuring thier customers. People waited with baited breath from Friday until thier press conference on Sunday, and Toshiba didn't offer even a bread crumb of hope to thier supporters. Toshiba should have had some plan, no matter how plausible, to offer at that point and try and turn the press around. Even a simple "We will present our new plan of attack on insert date here." Now they are looking at a run away train scenario, and I'm not sure that they can slow it down if they don't get a press conference together immediately.

Then again, the BDA has thier press conference tonight at 5pm and maybe Toshiba knows something we don't.

Maybe Toshiba will be at the BDA address along with MS.

Ice Age: The Meltdown was rated near perfect in PQ by HighDefDigest (http://bluray.highdefdigest.com/iceagemeltdown.html), despite also being MPEG-2.

Lee doesn't realize that you could walk up and ask 100 people on the street what a "codec" is, and 99 of them would give you a blank stare. As long as the picture quality is great, people don't give a second thought to what archaic acronym (MPEG-2, MPEG-4 AVC, VC-1) is on the back cover of the case.

Kingdom of Heaven looked awesome! :)

That is very disappointing. They had a window of opportunity to bow our gracefully and even pin some of the blame on Warner so their consumers wouldn't be as angry with Toshiba. But now it seems like MSFT has managed to convince them to drag this out even longer and alienate even more of a buying public. Nice move.

There's a huge contrast seeing how Warner handled things and how Toshiba and Paramount have.

I agree. Theres a time to fight and a time to bow out, especially when you're the laughing stock of the industry.

Absolutely clueless - you have no idea of where Toshiba's revenue stream comes from...............clue for ya - Sony is more likely to go belly up eating PS3 costs than Toshiba is from any money they've spent on HD-DVD.

(both are extremely unlikely)

Lets not pretend there won't be repercussions for introducing the biggest failure in consumer electronics since Betamax. It does leave a bad taste in people's mouths.

d

Maybe 'smart' means something different in the US to the UK.

The 'smart' thing to do for Toshiba would be to makeas much money from HD DVD as it can, while it still can.

If they just throw their hands up and shout "WE SURRENDER!" they'll not get a penny more.

Toshiba don't have to spend another dollar investing in HD DVD. Prolonging the battle doesn't have to cost them anything.

Steve W

Their is a cost: Toshiba's reputation and name brand is going down the tubes the longer they pretend there's still a war.

Thanks for your reply interpol. Compter monitors beat hd projectors anyday huh!

Oops...Target to go Blu-ray exclusive.

http://www.engadget.com/2007/07/26/target-to-only-sell-blu-ray-players-in-stores/


Ooops

July 26, 2007 anyone??

A bit late with this breaking news no?? ;)

Umm, no, even the pro-HD DVD insiders acknowledge that the war is over.

There will be many victories on both sides with nothing to do with your so called "war is over" and is sounding to childish.

The inner workings of this war is more than a Studio move. But it hasn't been the first time the BD fans said the war was over (calling Wolf).

...Angelo

Thanks for your reply interpol. Compter monitors beat hd projectors anyday huh!

It depends on what you mean by "beat". :)

Ok that was funny figgie.

There is no denial here. You can't deny there is a fair chance that the format war isn't over as quick as some want us to believe.

In a week or so media start to report that HD DVD is not so dead after all. They like a fight to be able to fill their space.

Looking at a bigger picture. In the sticking guns scenario people still see lower price hardware and 30..40% of shelf space dedicated to Universal and Paramount/Dreamworks releases.

At all depends on Universal/Paramount/Dreamworks/Toshiba how far will they go? If it's all the way than blu ray is in deep trouble too.

The only reason there will be discounts is to get rid of anything with the HDDVD label on it. After that, there will not be re-orders. Bankruptsy sales have never turned a company around.

Sorry about the joke, it was in poor taste. However, it's still far less offensive/ridiculous than comparing the HD-DVD camp favorably to Iraqi insurgents.

That was the Iraqi Army, not insurgents. I agree, it was not very fair but they meant is as a parallel to people who are unwilling to accept defeat as their side crumbles around them. I have a feeling that we will see that usage for many years because it was so apparent.

The only reason there will be discounts is to get rid of anything with the HDDVD label on it. After that, there will not be re-orders. Bankruptsy sales have never turned a company around.

Bankruptcy sales.... Of who?

Toshiba! ummm hahahahahhaahahaahahahno!

Care to try again!

Thanks for your reply interpol. Compter monitors beat hd projectors anyday huh!

I'm not sure whether the above implies whether you agree or disagree, but I'm pretty sure that the average porn viewer doesn't really care about viewing his/her porn on a 100" HD projection screen versus on a 19" LCD monitor...

I wonder if Toshiba will still release HD-dvd players

I really wanted an HD-dvd dvr. I hope it still on the way.


You bet they will. They need to milk the hardcore hd dvd supporters who still believe the format has a chance of succeeding if universal releases like 3 movies a month. They probably also believe in unicorns and santa too but hey!

no, those 61:39 weeks count more in the average then the first week of last year. i was just pointing out that unless you have more information than is publicly available you can't claim the average for the year is 65:35. the best you could do is claim the median for the year is 65:35.

blu-ray won every week last year, so it is obvious they sold more titles in 2007. i wasn't debating that point. but if transformers week was a very high volume week with blu-ray winning 51:49 it "counts more towards the average" than 1/52.

well last data avaible are YTD: BD-64% HDD-36% SI: BD-62% HDD-38%

those are not averages or medians, those are % of volmes sold....

http://www.nxtbook.com/nxtbooks/questex/hom010608/index.php

Marek

Their is a cost: Toshiba's reputation and name brand is going down the tubes the longer they pretend there's still a war.

Are you kidding ? Do you seriously think Toshiba's reputation has only the HD DVD to survive ? Wow.

http://thumb.swagster.com/thumb/2008010708411231354swag_image.jpg (http://swagster.com/image_full.php?id=MjAwODAxMDcwODQxMTIzMTM1NHN3YWdfaW1hZ2Uuan Bn&user=&image_title=aW1ub3RkZWFk&swag_id=183&image_id=31354)

The Dead Collector: Bring out yer dead.

[a man puts a body on the cart]

Large Man with Dead Body: Here's one.

The Dead Collector: That'll be ninepence.

Toshiba: I'm not dead.

The Dead Collector: What?

Large Man with Dead Body: Nothing. There's your ninepence.

Toshiba: I'm not dead.

The Dead Collector: 'Ere, he says he's not dead.

Large Man with Dead Body: Yes he is.

Toshiba: I'm not.

The Dead Collector: He isn't.

Large Man with Dead Body: Well, he will be soon, he's very ill.

Toshiba: I'm getting better.

Large Man with Dead Body: No you're not, you'll be stone dead in a moment.

The Dead Collector: Well, I can't take him like that. It's against regulations.

Toshiba: I don't want to go to 2008 CES.

Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, don't be such a baby.

The Dead Collector: I can't take him.

Toshiba: I feel fine.

Large Man with Dead Body: Oh, do me a favor.

The Dead Collector: I can't.

Large Man with Dead Body: Well, can you hang around for a couple of
minutes? He won't be long.

:D:D:D:D

Are you kidding ? Do you seriously think Toshiba's reputation has only the HD DVD to survive ? Wow.

Of course!!

U.K WestingHouse Aquisition was a farce and will lead them to Banruptcy because China is not going to pay for the 9 nuclear reactors they are bring up! Toshiba really did not put 8 billion for them either. That was an inflated, fabricated number!!

Sharp really did not team up with Toshiba on the LCD front. That was a fairy tale!

;)

let's see what happens with Universal and Paramount and how long they stay HD DVD exclusive...

They're likely already preparing to join the BDA.

If Sony would have spent that $500 million on discounting Blu-ray players instead of bribing studios, the format war would be over by now.

What format war?:confused:

Are you kidding ? Do you seriously think Toshiba's reputation has only the HD DVD to survive ? Wow.

Toshiba will be fine, but people won't quickly forget quickly. Every time something questionable comes out of Sony everyone brings up Betamax vs. VHS. That's been, what, 20 years?

Until the # of US homes that actually have an HDTV in them surpases 60-75%, neither format would ever hope to see "mass adoption".

One definite here is that one format will most certainly not see 2009 much less mass adoption.

So your saying dvd's havn't helped out the industry because people have computers. Interesting point that i assume was from exhaustive research also. Humm!

I akin this whole war to that scene in Gattica where the two brothers have a swim race. The genetically engineered brother, convinced he will win, is shocked when his merely human brother with a bad heart beats him. How? He never held anything back for the return swim. Toshiba knew the stakes going into this thing; they knew that Sony was going all-out no matter what; Sony literally staked the future of the company on it. Why commit to a half-a#* effort unless you were fully committed to the end. If this failure on Toshiba's part simply came down to money, and not putting enough of it on the table, they should have never committed to HD in the first place. In the end, Sony wanted it more, it seems, or Toshiba was indeed underestimating it's support from a key ally.

So your saying dvd's havn't helped out the industry because people have computers. Interesting point that i assume was from exhaustive research also. Humm!


you know,

it would be easier to read your post when they are associated via reply to another post :) who was that reply to?

Yep, and the message is clear: BOGO's DO WELL! You seriously expect BD sales to continue at this rate when each "Potter" BD costs $19.95 instead of half that via BOGOS? :rolleyes:

are you hd dvd fanboys really that dumb?

how does the bogo for blu-ray explain the dive hd dvd took when warner went exclusive?

Sony has already said in their presser that they will continue to manufacturer and sell their BD players (S300, S500 and ES2000) of which none are 1.1.

Their new BD players called Saphaire (sp ck) 3 and 4 will be 1.1 and 2.0 compliant and will be released in the Q2 to Q3 time frame.

Nothing stopping Sony from pricing the S300 at $199 and giving 10 free BD movies with it.

Why should they when there's no competition. Its not Sony's fault their opponent was nothing more than a paper tiger.

In the end, Sony wanted it more, it seems, or Toshiba was indeed underestimating it's support from a key ally.

No I don't think that is it.

we know that Paramount/Dreamworks received 150 million dollars in incentive. At the rate of TOTAL HDM sales (both Bluray AND HDDVD ALL studios), it would have taken them 3 years to get that much.....

Toshiba and everyone might be looking at this as a interim solution.

taking the rumored $500 million. Probably no way to recoup those cost on HDM.

it would probably shock people on this board but the public awareness of sacd and dvd-a is so abysmally low that the public awareness of it is probably about 5-10% of the general public.

hd dvd and blu-ray are doing much better than sacd and dvd-a, but that's not saying much. personally, i was at least partially motivated to get a cheap rca hd dvd player (for about $80 for a "like new" model off of ebay which included shipping) because i could get the 5-disc blade runner hd dvd for about $30 (whereas i could only get the 5-disc dvd set with the briefcase for about $50-$60).

effective cost of my hd dvd player to me is then very close to $50 (i get $30 of perceived benefit from the bladerunner 5-disc set). no real reason to jump ship now. also, i've got a lot of combo discs -- bourne ultimatum, jet li's fearless, children of men, hot fuzz, etc. the dvd side will play in a blu-ray player if i get one at a later date.

also, something everybody seems to not grasp is that to the general public they have no idea that blu-ray has been declared the victor in this war. after all, blu-ray has claimed victory so many times it is about as embarrassing as president bush's mission accomplished.

in the news today, blu-ray has declared victory. wait, didn't they declare victory six months ago, and a year ago, and two years ago (before any blu-ray players were even on the market)?


But the Best Buy drones will no doubt steer customers away from HDDVD. Heck, BB didn't even like HDDVD before Jan.4th.

my bad, was supposed to be a reply to interpol. I just didn't like his know it all reply, if everyone knows the answers on how to win don't you think Toshiba would be winning? Dreamworks hasn't let them take the lead! We are home theater fanatics, not the averate joe blow with his $20 cyberhome upconvert dvd player that needs to be won over for the format to succeed.

So your saying dvd's havn't helped out the industry because people have computers. Interesting point that i assume was from exhaustive research also. Humm!

I said nothing of the sort.

I won't deny that the adult vid industry helped boost overall DVD sales. It did. However, it is also a FACT that DVD eventually garnered 100% of mainstream studio support, and that's why it took off and became so popular. Adult video only helped speed the process. This will not happen with HD-DVD, as you are claiming.

However, you go on believing that porn will save HD-DVD. Doesn't matter to me. I couldn't care less if you think my reply sounded "know-it-all" - at least it was based more on facts than the tripe you presented.

I said nothing of the sort.

I won't deny that the adult vid industry helped boost overall DVD sales. It did. However, it is also a FACT that DVD eventually garnered 100% of mainstream studio support, and that's why it took off and became so popular. Adult video only helped speed the process. This will not happen with HD-DVD, as you are claiming.

However, you go on believing that porn will save HD-DVD. Doesn't matter to me.
The biggest HD porn studio just went dual-format (Digital Playground; they account for 80% of HD porn).

There is no more porn "advantage" for HD-DVD.

No I don't think that is it.

we know that Paramount/Dreamworks received 150 million dollars in incentive. At the rate of TOTAL HDM sales (both Bluray AND HDDVD ALL studios), it would have taken them 3 years to get that much.....

Toshiba and everyone might be looking at this as a interim solution.

taking the rumored $500 million. Probably no way to recoup those cost on HDM.

In the short term your right. But, again, as a company CEO you have to be able to know these things from the get-go. This isn't an insiginficant technological development, and the plan should have been from the beginning that you are all-in. Obviously, Toshiba believes they can survive this long-term, and they may be right; in five years, we may be looking at movies in a very different way. But my point that Sony wanted this more is confirmed by their commitment to severe COGS problems short term for that maybe-it's-there-maybe-it's not long term gain via royalties. Only time will tell if either side was right, and that won't happen this year.

Read my last comment, it was just a comment as people were throwing out ideas, nothing more. Sorry to stir up anger out of people.

No, as you said, the probem is that most people will be happy to buy that $79 player and watch cheaper SD DVDs upscaled on it, rather than to pay $400 for a player that only does the exact same thing with their SD movie collection.

Until Blu-ray offers a sub $99 player and discs that are the same price as SD, we are talking niche.
But if the Panasonic, Samsung and Sharp HDTV bundling of Blu-ray players continue, people will get Blu-ray players for free with their new purchase.
I guess HDTV is niche. ;)

Also, a lot of Blu-ray players were given as gifts for Xmas as were HD DVD players.
So those who got Blu-ray players as gifts paid nothing for the player costs and only pay for their discs.

Read my last comment, it was just a comment as people were throwing out ideas, nothing more. Sorry to stir up anger out of people.

Read my last comment, it was just a comment showing why your idea won't work, nothing more. Sorry to stir up such defensiveness out of you.

Please explain how TOSHIBA is ripping off customers :confused:

Trying to convince customers that their ''dead man walking the green mile'', 2 studio format is still a worthy investment when even they know its not. If thats not ripping off customers, I don't know what is.:confused:

Bankruptcy sales.... Of who?

Toshiba! ummm hahahahahhaahahaahahahno!

Care to try again!

Toshiba is bankrupt of morals if they continue trying to shove their dead products on an unsuspecting public.

Trying for convince customers that their ''dead man walking the green mile'', 2 studio format is still a worthy investment when even they know its not. If thats not ripping off customers, I don't know what is.:confused:

Maybe they are thinking about their install base more than potential adopters, but of course your BLU sunglasses don't allow you to see things outside the box... :rolleyes:

before HD DVD had only Universal as exclusive...now it has Universal plus Paramount...no. HD DVD is not dead by any means and has cards to play...until those 2 or 3 studios become lu exclusive or at least neutral, HD DVD is alive and much in the game.

Are you kidding ? Do you seriously think Toshiba's reputation has only the HD DVD to survive ? Wow.

Toshiba doesn't excel in any particular aspect of electronics. So they will be synonymous with HDDVD, not a position most want to be in. They brought out a product, that if rumors are true about Warner being paid, even they couldn't afford to keep alive. Do you think people aren't going to remember that? Just imagine if Sega released a new videogame system next year.

Maybe they are thinking about their install base more than potential adopters, but of course your BLU sunglasses don't allow you to see things outside the box... :rolleyes:

Uh...hate to tell you this, but HiDef4Life is hardly a Blu-Ray supporter, if his post history is any indication...

Toshiba will be fine, but people won't quickly forget quickly. Every time something questionable comes out of Sony everyone brings up Betamax vs. VHS. That's been, what, 20 years?

Exactly.

before HD DVD had only Universal as exclusive...now it has Universal plus Paramount...no. HD DVD is not dead by any means and has cards to play...until those 2 or 3 studios become lu exclusive or at least neutral, HD DVD is alive and much in the game.That is my take also. Universal tend s to stand out of the crowd. And Paramouont just signed over. Those two alone will keep this war continuing.

before HD DVD had only Universal as exclusive...now it has Universal plus Paramount...no. HD DVD is not dead by any means and has cards to play...until those 2 or 3 studios become lu exclusive or at least neutral, HD DVD is alive and much in the game.

Based on what? You actually think Universal/Paramount/Dreamworks are going to put a lot of money/effort into trying to lure other studios back in their camp when it would make more business sense to either go neutral or switch to Blu-Ray exclusively?

Name the number of video formats that have thrived, much less survived, with only the support of 2 studios? Here's a hint: the number is less than one.

If you really believe what you say, then justify yourself with some business or economic evidence instead of just saying "HD-DVD is alive and much in the game". You have no basis in fact, and virtually any tech analyst or journalist would disagree with you.

I akin this whole war to that scene in Gattica where the two brothers have a swim race. The genetically engineered brother, convinced he will win, is shocked when his merely human brother with a bad heart beats him. How? He never held anything back for the return swim. Toshiba knew the stakes going into this thing; they knew that Sony was going all-out no matter what; Sony literally staked the future of the company on it. Why commit to a half-a#* effort unless you were fully committed to the end. If this failure on Toshiba's part simply came down to money, and not putting enough of it on the table, they should have never committed to HD in the first place. In the end, Sony wanted it more, it seems, or Toshiba was indeed underestimating it's support from a key ally.

I expect Toshiba's fortunes to go downhill from here. When it rains it storms. I can see them becoming the next Sega.

Toshiba is bankrupt of morals if they continue trying to shove their dead products on an unsuspecting public.
But they have to recoupe their losses somehow and liquaidating their inventory like they have been for the last couple months will most likely continue.

IT's not like Toshiba is your personal friend.
They need to make profit. It's business not to be personal like some have made it out to be.

Uh...hate to tell you this, but HiDef4Life is hardly a Blu-Ray supporter, if his post history is any indication...

I find it quite humorous that HiDef4Life can post things like this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12100453#post12100453


And now he does a 180 and is protraying that Toshiba has completely wronged the masses. Toshiba was a saint, and is now the devil.


Remind me to completely diregard anything he posts...thx.

heat....

"...until those 2 or 3 studios become lu exclusive or at least neutral, HD DVD is alive and much in the game."

I think you have the cart before the horse there. IMHO HD-DVD market will shrink and basically be dead and THEN the 2 HD-DVD studios will announce they are dropping the technology. If only to be able to protect themselves contractually as I bet there are sales numbers that IF they drop below a certain level the studios can opt out.

yea but Warner IS NOT THE BIGGEST STUDIO, the Largest is movie studio with the biggest catalog is Universal which is still with HD-DVD, until then there is gonna always be a format war, unless Univeral ends it

So??? Universal has been lagging behind all the major studios year after year in box office sales. Who cares about the CATALOG? You want to release movies that make money in the theaters. Look at the biggest grossing studios for the last half-decade. Universal is dragging ass. Their catalog means dick all when the movies in that catalog are ignored at the box office.

I find it quite humorous that HiDef4Life can post things like this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12100453#post12100453


And now he does a 180 and is protraying that Toshiba has completely wronged the masses. Toshiba was a saint, and is now the devil.


Remind me to completely diregard anything he posts...thx.

Leave him alone - he's going through a healthy and natural grieving cycle.

Maybe they are thinking about their install base more than potential adopters, but of course your BLU sunglasses don't allow you to see things outside the box... :rolleyes:

I was actually very red until Jan.4 when I realized Toshiba couldn't do enough to convince longtime partner and patentholder in HDDVD, Warners, from leaving. If they cared about the customers they should have offered Warner more money than Sony or done a better job selling their players this Christmas. $149 for the A3 and $199 for the A30 would have been a nice start. I doubt this is about the userbase and more about moving stock that has little perceived value to anyone. They knew the stakes were against them and still entered into this format war. If they really cared about the userbase, no way in hell they let Warner defect.

Leave him alone - he's going through a healthy and natural grieving cycle.

He needs to stop baiting then.

ahhhhh

It's good to have the old forum back!

:D

Toshiba doesn't excel in any particular aspect of electronics. So they will be synonymous with HDDVD, not a position most want to be in. They brought out a product, that if rumors are true about Warner being paid, even they couldn't afford to keep alive. Do you think people aren't going to remember that? Just imagine if Sega released a new videogame system next year.

Huh,

damn so that is why Sharp teamed up with Toshiba on the LCD and semi-conductor front..... because toshiba sucks. Must be why Sony sold the cell processing stuff to Toshiba also. :rolleyes:

Couldn't afford???

Eight Billion for U.K Westinghouse (third time I post this).

That is $8,000,000,000.

But they have to recoupe their losses somehow and liquaidating their inventory like they have been for the last couple months will most likely continue.

IT's not like Toshiba is your personal friend.
They need to make profit. It's business not to be personal like some have made it out to be.

They don't need to be my friend. But they could be honest right now and admit defeat. Don't pretend there's still a chance in hell that they're in any war. At least Sega admitted they couldn't win with the Dreamcast. It may have pissed people off but it didn't lead unsuspecting customers to continue buying thier products knowing its already dead. Business is one thing but this is a public relasions disaster.

Uh...hate to tell you this, but HiDef4Life is hardly a Blu-Ray supporter, if his post history is any indication...

Maybe he sold his entire hd dvd collection and players at a huge loss.

I have seen this type of behavior on stock message boards before.

"Sony wanted it more, it seems, or Toshiba was indeed underestimating it's support from a key ally."

I do not understand folks putting this on Toshiba, not so sure about Sony either but they do own one of the studios. This decision came from the studios. Toshiba could not control what Warner decided. Its a little dysfunctional to blame Toshiba. I'm sure it is one reason Sony got into studio ownership. Eliminated a variable.

I find it quite humorous that HiDef4Life can post things like this http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12100453#post12100453


And now he does a 180 and is protraying that Toshiba has completely wronged the masses. Toshiba was a saint, and is now the devil.


Remind me to completely diregard anything he posts...thx.

Its called facing reality, and reality is not on HDDVD's side. Anyone who still thinks HDDVD is alive and healthy is living in delusion. At some point, you have to accept defeat. Being burned by Sega, I'm not taking the long road this time.

I was actually very red until Jan.4 when I realized Toshiba couldn't do enough to convince longtime partner and patentholder in HDDVD, Warners, from leaving. If they cared about the customers they should have offered Warner more money than Sony or done a better job selling their players this Christmas. $149 for the A3 and $199 for the A30 would have been a nice start. I doubt this is about the userbase and more about moving stock that has little perceived value to anyone. They knew the stakes were against them and still entered into this format war. If they really cared about the userbase, no way in hell they let Warner defect.

How do we know they didn't offer Warner more $$$$ than SONY did to go RED Exclusive. All the info floating on the net is WARNER wanted another studio to go RED EXCLUSIVE also. Another studio was brought into the fold. That studio was about ready, but backed-out, which eventually killed any so-called deal RED had with WARNER & the other studio to go exclusive.

So IYO this all TOSHIBA's fault & they should burn for doing everything that needed... WOW

HiDef4Life,

"Toshiba doesn't excel in any particular aspect of electronics. "

Maybe we are thinking of a different Toshiba? Cause I think they are going to be just fine. Its a pretty big and wide company.

Anyone remember when they sold top secret technology to the USSR regarding "silent" submarines?

Its called facing reality, and reality is not on HDDVD's side. Anyone who still thinks HDDVD is alive and healthy is living in delusion. At some point, you have to accept defeat. Being burned by Sega, I'm not taking the long road this time.

Healthy ? No. Alive ? Yes.

Its called facing reality, and reality is not on HDDVD's side. Anyone who still thinks HDDVD is alive and healthy is living in delusion. At some point, you have to accept defeat. Being burned by Sega, I'm not taking the long road this time.

+1

Huh,

damn so that is why Sharp teamed up with Toshiba on the LCD and semi-conductor front..... because toshiba sucks. Must be why Sony sold the cell processing stuff to Toshiba also. :rolleyes:

Couldn't afford???

Eight Billion for U.K Westinghouse (third time I post this).

That is $8,000,000,000.

And yet, in the grand scheme of things, the general public will now only know Toshiba as the company that brought us the biggest failure since Betamax. Maybe bigger since Beta lasted years longer.

I hate to tell you, or maybe I don't >>> HD DVD was hardly the make it or break it for Toshiba. They are one of the largest electronics companies in the world, and they will continue to be one of the largest. Sony had to go all in before they were seriously hurt long-term by Blu-Ray and PS3 losing. They could lose one, but not the other. They essentially screwed themselves by commiting to both so they needed to come up big.

Yeah Sony! Go PS3! Woo-Hoo!

Wake me when we see cheap 2.0 Blu-Ray. Maybe before 2010. MAYBE

BF...

"All the info floating on the net is WARNER wanted another studio to go RED EXCLUSIVE also. Another studio was brought into the fold."

I think that is sorta correct but not quite. What Warner's press releases indicate is that they wanted the format war to be over. Plan A was to have that be HD-DVD. They were trying to get the pieces in place for HD-DVD to win. That fell apart. They then went to plan B, joining the "dark side".....

It doesn't read to me like Warner had a vested interest in any particular format winning. Their goal was to end the dual format issues, not have a particular technology win. Given the investment they already have in place I'm sure they would have liked it to be plan A. But they were more commited to stopping the madness than one format.

I could be wrong of course.

And yet, in the grand scheme of things, the general public will now only know Toshiba as the company that brought us the biggest failure since Betamax. Maybe bigger since Beta lasted years longer.

Luckily the general public is not the one who foots the bills. It is the people that have money to buy stocks in greater than 10% qty. That applies to ANY company. Just ask SONY on that one ;)

Its called facing reality, and reality is not on HDDVD's side. Anyone who still thinks HDDVD is alive and healthy is living in delusion. At some point, you have to accept defeat. Being burned by Sega, I'm not taking the long road this time.

I don't think any intelligent person thinks it is alive and healthy...so don't put forth that arguement to make your position look superior.

It's been 3 days since the announcement...Toshiba and crew have yet to say anything of substance regarding a plan of action. I find it ironic that a format you once defended so much before you now so quickly turn your venom against them.

HD DVD very well could go away I'm not denying that...but there are still studios under the HD DVD banner. And until those last studios say they are shifting away HD DVD is alive. There will be HD DVD movies you may want to buy and so on.


You need to change your priorities I think from rallying to a colored flag and instead enjoy what this forum is about which is high def. movie viewing. Take a breath, stop doomsday preaching (which is highly annoying and I think I speak for others saying that) and see what happens.

How do we know they didn't offer Warner more $$$$ than SONY did to go RED Exclusive. All the info floating on the net is WARNER wanted another studio to go RED EXCLUSIVE also. Another studio was brought into the fold. That studio was about ready, but backed-out, which eventually killed any so-called deal RED had with WARNER & the other studio to go exclusive.

So IYO this all TOSHIBA's fault & they should burn for doing everything that needed... WOW

I got the same memo you did from rdram. There is no substantial proof that Fox was considering to join Warner and go Red. Maybe Toshiba got hoodwinked by Fox but thats just more proof that Sony had more loyal business partners. Looking back, Toshiba should have never released a format without the exclusive support of Uni, Paramount and Warner.

And they also failed to push out enough units after the firesale. The A3 should have been $149 and the A30 $199 right after the firesale. Instead, BD standalones started outselling Toshiba. Toshiba were outmarketed, out manouvered, outsmarted in this format war. I hope they never release their own products again.

Toshiba were out marketed.....

No kidding. About the only places I regularly see adds for HD-DVD is on the lead in trailer of my HD-DVD's!

Bluray are all over TV.

Maybe he sold his entire hd dvd collection and players at a huge loss.

I have seen this type of behavior on stock message boards before.

I haven't sold anything. I've always said that Warner wins the war whichever way they go. Warner made their choice and I'm standing by my convictions.

"Sony wanted it more, it seems, or Toshiba was indeed underestimating it's support from a key ally."

I do not understand folks putting this on Toshiba, not so sure about Sony either but they do own one of the studios. This decision came from the studios. Toshiba could not control what Warner decided. Its a little dysfunctional to blame Toshiba. I'm sure it is one reason Sony got into studio ownership. Eliminated a variable.

Then Toshiba should have forged stronger relations with their studios. In fact, HDDVD should have never been released without the exclusive support of Uni, Paramount and Warners. It just shows that Toshiba are a greenhorn when it comes to fighting a format war. Sony, as much as I don't like them, are a seasoned veteran having won 2 straight videogame wars and decisively too.

I haven't sold anything. I've always said that Warner wins the war whichever way they go. Warner made their choice and I'm standing by my convictions.

Ok. Just you seem so angry. Heck I was mad too when I heard it. Thank god I have two bd players as well. I went purple last year. I love movies. I also made sure I have a spare player for my hd dvd collection. Who knows I might by a dual format player some time next year.

HiDef4Life,

"Toshiba doesn't excel in any particular aspect of electronics. "

Maybe we are thinking of a different Toshiba? Cause I think they are going to be just fine. Its a pretty big and wide company.

Anyone remember when they sold top secret technology to the USSR regarding "silent" submarines?

Maybe they should stick with submarines then. I'm not saying Toshiba is dead but their reputation dropped quite a few notches after this format loss.

Toshiba were out marketed.....

No kidding. About the only places I regularly see adds for HD-DVD is on the lead in trailer of my HD-DVD's!

Bluray are all over TV.

That's weird. In my area, I have never seen a "Blu-Ray" commercial on it's own, only mentioned at the end of a DVD release commercial.

Conversely, I've seen at least 3-4 different HD-DVD commercials, as well as being mentioned at the end of DVD release commercials as well.

I got the same memo you did from rdram. There is no substantial proof that Fox was considering to join Warner and go Red. Maybe Toshiba got hoodwinked by Fox but thats just more proof that Sony had more loyal business partners. Looking back, Toshiba should have never released a format without the exclusive support of Uni, Paramount and Warner.

And they also failed to push out enough units after the firesale. The A3 should have been $149 and the A30 $199 right after the firesale. Instead, BD standalones started outselling Toshiba. Toshiba were outmarketed, out manouvered, outsmarted in this format war. I hope they never release their own products again.

Geez. You sure sound bitter, almost like a jilted lover. Seems like you expect Toshiba to fall on its sword now as the only way it can possibly "save face".

Luckily the general public is not the one who foots the bills. It is the people that have money to buy stocks in greater than 10% qty. That applies to ANY company. Just ask SONY on that one ;)

Whether you accept it or not, Toshiba's reputation took a beating the past few days. They'll still be profitable since they're such a diverse company but in consumer electronics, I don't think anyone envies their position today.

Whether you accept it or not, Toshiba's reputation took a beating the past few days. They'll still be profitable since they're such a diverse company but in consumer electronics, I don't think anyone envies their position today.

lol

no it hasn't. Only to the eyes of the forums such as this which I would venture a guess are less than .001% of the people that actually have a significant percentage of stock in a company of said magnitude. Seriously you nede to stop with the doom and gloom preaching.

stop doomsday preaching (which is highly annoying and I think I speak for others saying that) and see what happens.

You do infact speak for at least me.

I hate doomsday preaching.

Dec 21, 2012... OH NOS!! DOOMSDAY!!!

I don't think any intelligent person thinks it is alive and healthy...so don't put forth that arguement to make your position look superior.

It's been 3 days since the announcement...Toshiba and crew have yet to say anything of substance regarding a plan of action. I find it ironic that a format you once defended so much before you now so quickly turn your venom against them.

HD DVD very well could go away I'm not denying that...but there are still studios under the HD DVD banner. And until those last studios say they are shifting away HD DVD is alive. There will be HD DVD movies you may want to buy and so on.


You need to change your priorities I think from rallying to a colored flag and instead enjoy what this forum is about which is high def. movie viewing. Take a breath, stop doomsday preaching (which is highly annoying and I think I speak for others saying that) and see what happens.


I'll buy HDDVDs when they're in the clearance bin. No way am I paying $28 for any HDDVD ever again. Its nothing personal, business is business. True that its about high definition but its also about investing your money wisely. I'm not going to throw good money at a format that, for all intents and purposes, is on life support. I wouldn't even encourage my worst enemy to consider HDDVD today.

Dec 21, 2012... OH NOS!! DOOMSDAY!!!

I had a family member talking about this date new years eve... I thought it was the alcohol :eek:

Whether you accept it or not, Toshiba's reputation took a beating the past few days. They'll still be profitable since they're such a diverse company but in consumer electronics, I don't think anyone envies their position today.

Way to be over dramatic. Let's assume that this is the end of HD DVD. It will not be the first format to go belly up, and it won't be the last.

Look at UMD and Blu-Ray. :D

Geez. You sure sound bitter, almost like a jilted lover. Seems like you expect Toshiba to fall on its sword now as the only way it can possibly "save face".

I don't want Toshiba to fall on their sword. But it might be smart for them to just formally announce the end of their format and keep out of the public eye for a very long time.

I don't want Toshiba to fall on their sword. But it might be smart for them to just formally announce the end of their format and keep out of the public eye for a very long time.

Someone should put you on suicide watch. It looks like you are way too wrapped up in this.

I'm a staunch HD DVD supporter, but seriously, who cares about a movie format?

On an unrelated note, Toshiba made some headlines last week with their portable nuclear reactors! Something that a business or city block could buy and use for their own power.

Way cooler than Hi Def.

I don't want Toshiba to fall on their sword. But it might be smart for them to just formally announce the end of their format and keep out of the public eye for a very long time.

If Toshiba is truly about the customer, they should concede and do it quickly.

They are done. HD DVD is done.

lol

no it hasn't. Only to the eyes of the forums such as this which I would venture a guess are less than .001% of the people that actually have a significant percentage of stock in a company of said magnitude. Seriously you nede to stop with the doom and gloom preaching.





The Warner defection has been reported on every major media outlet in America. You don't think the average person knows about it? Its not doom and gloom preaching when its the truth.

Actually I don't think that is accurate.

It is accurate - read Dave Vaughn's posts from within an hour after the annoucement.

Hence me saying that even the pro-HD DVD insiders acknowledge that the war is over is an accurate statement.

If Toshiba is truly about the customer, they should concede and do it quickly.

They are done. HD DVD is done.

Exactly. Its wrong to pretend otherwise.

It is accurate - read Dave Vaughn's posts from within an hour after the annoucement.

Hence me saying that even the pro-HD DVD insiders acknowledge that the war is over is an accurate statement.

Dave isn't an insider, though he was a proponent of HD DVD. He said his opinions and said he has nothing to back them up.

Now, it certainly MAY be the end, but you make it sound like Dave is the head of the HDDVDPRG.

Whether you accept it or not, Toshiba's reputation took a beating the past few days. They'll still be profitable since they're such a diverse company but in consumer electronics, I don't think anyone envies their position today.

That's just nonsense. Any company in a pitched battle for competition of their product or services and that company loses the market, in your opinion is a negative reflection of their reputation. An outlandish statement and not a reflection of how the free market works.

What is clear however, is that Toshiba should not continue this war. It is de facto finished. It would indeed be the case, imho, if they continued a path of denial that it would be doing them, the market, and their present and future customers a diservice not worthy of a reputable company such as Toshiba. In other words, it can become a matter of undermining their reputation. Sony bowed out in the early 90's when the dvd format as it exists now was lost to Toshiba and it's supporters. It's now time for Tosh to resolve this in the interest of all.

I'm trying to figure out whether Universal has already made some announcement regarding Warner. Anyone heard or saw anything? (Alternatively, have they made any other announcements, like movies or so?)
Thx

That's just nonsense. Any company in a pitched battle for competition of their product or services and that company loses the market, in your opinion is a negative reflection of their reputation. An outlandish statement and not a reflection of how the free market works.

What is clear however, is that Toshiba should not continue this war. It is de facto finished. It would indeed be the case, imho, if they continued a path of denial that it would be doing them, the market, and their present and future customers a diservice not worthy of a reputable company such as Toshiba. In other words, it can become a matter of undermining their reputation. Sony bowed out in the early 90's when the dvd format as it exists now was lost to Toshiba and it's supporters. It's now time for Tosh to resolve this in the interest of all.

Its one thing to lose, but this was one of the most publicized and documented format wars since Beta/VHS. I wouldn't be surprised to see this war further document in economic books as a case study for years to come. Even Ford got over the Edsel but I doubt anyone wanted to be in their shoes either.

That's just nonsense. Any company in a pitched battle for competition of their product or services and that company loses the market, in your opinion is a negative reflection of their reputation. An outlandish statement and not a reflection of how the free market works.

What is clear however, is that Toshiba should not continue this war. It is de facto finished. It would indeed be the case, imho, if they continued a path of denial that it would be doing them, the market, and their present and future customers a diservice not worthy of a reputable company such as Toshiba. In other words, it can become a matter of undermining their reputation. Sony bowed out in the early 90's when the dvd format as it exists now was lost to Toshiba and it's supporters. It's now time for Tosh to resolve this in the interest of all.

Their duty to "the public" is well trumped by their duty to their shareholders. If there is still money to be made, then they need to make it.

Many people here (not you per se) seem to think of these companies as ideals or philosophies. They are companies in it for the profit. If Toshiba thinks they can make money with HD DVD, then they will most likely continue to do so until they can't.

I wonder how many of the 1 million HDDVD players were bought by consumers who also own a BR player? Even if Toshiba throws in the towel tomorrow, you are going to have a signifiant number of disgruntled consumers - many of whom just bought their HDDVD player!
I'm pretty certain that at this point neither party was concerned with having discruntled customers. Several have made the point that this decisive move was intended to end the format war as the 2 formats battling it out were keeping the majority of consumers away from adopting. Let's face it the "majority of consumers" is going to get much more focus than us early adopters. For either format to survive for a decade or more there has to be one only.

Their duty to "the public" is well trumped by their duty to their shareholders. If there is still money to be made, then they need to make it.

Many people here (not you per se) seem to think of these companies as ideals or philosophies. They are companies in it for the profit. If Toshiba thinks they can make money with HD DVD, then they will most likely continue to do so until they can't.

Darn it someone gets it!!

lol

I am pretty sure every BD supporter with internet access has dropped in on one of the many threads here at AVS and espoused how HD DVD is dead and that HD DVD supporters should give it up and embrace BD going forward.

Logically, all of these BD supporters should immediately embrace HD DVD if Warner pulled a reversal. But I doubt they would display the graciousness they expect of others.

HD DVD has been declared dead since launch, this is nothing new. If it were truly over I doubt we would be seeing as much gamesmanship from the BD crowd in trying to convince all of the HD DVD supporters to abandon the format.

If it was definitively over there would be no need to sell anyone on giving up.

The way many BD supporters are acting is likely to steel people’s resolve to never support BD.

Besides, many people bought into HD DVD because they simply could not afford the alternative, and that isn’t going to suddenly change overnight just because Warner flipped.

The biggest barrier to adoption has always been and will always be price. Unifying to support the unaffordable option isn’t possible for many, and isn’t desirable for most. The price has to come down.

Unfortunately, this isn’t likely to happen anytime soon. Warner screwed up, and I think that will become apparent in a short time.

"Sony wanted it more, it seems, or Toshiba was indeed underestimating it's support from a key ally."

I do not understand folks putting this on Toshiba, not so sure about Sony either but they do own one of the studios. This decision came from the studios. Toshiba could not control what Warner decided. Its a little dysfunctional to blame Toshiba. I'm sure it is one reason Sony got into studio ownership. Eliminated a variable.


To think Toshiba couldn't have done more to woo Warner, or any other studio is naive. Warner was a commodity to be had if either wanted it, and Sony apparentely wanted it more. Warner's original inclination was for HD-DVD...

I do agree that Sony's aquisition of a major studio was a factor.

I'm pretty certain that at this point neither party was concerned with having discruntled customers. Several have made the point that this decisive move was intended to end the format war as the 2 formats battling it out were keeping the majority of consumers away from adopting. Let's face it the "majority of consumers" is going to get much more focus than us early adopters. For either format to survive for a decade or more there has to be one only.

Nobody in this really cares about customers. Toshiba made HDM players affordable as a business strategy, not a gift to consumers. In the end, that strategy backfired for consumers because it brought in non early adopter personalities into an early adopter phase of a new product. Hence the grieving process we are seeing here.

Logically, all of these BD supporters should immediately embrace HD DVD if Warner pulled a reversal. But I doubt they would display the graciousness they expect of others.
Remember the mantra -

If Warner goes red it's no biggie

If Warner goes blue the war is over today!

(Just a friendly reminder brought to you by the same folks who would nuke Paramount because they didn't get Transformers)

I am pretty sure every BD supporter with internet access has dropped in on one of the many threads here at AVS and espoused how HD DVD is dead and that HD DVD supporters should give it up and embrace BD going forward.

Logically, all of these BD supporters should immediately embrace HD DVD if Warner pulled a reversal. But I doubt they would display the graciousness they expect of others.

HD DVD has been declared dead since launch, this is nothing new. If it were truly over I doubt we would be seeing as much gamesmanship from the BD crowd in trying to convince all of the HD DVD supporters to abandon the format.

If it was definitively over there would be no need to sell anyone on giving up.

The way many BD supporters are acting is likely to steel people’s resolve to never support BD.

Besides, many people bought into HD DVD because they simply could not afford the alternative, and that isn’t going to suddenly change overnight just because Warner flipped.

The biggest barrier to adoption has always been and will always be price. Unifying to support the unaffordable option isn’t possible for many, and isn’t desirable for most. The price has to come down.

Unfortunately, this isn’t likely to happen anytime soon. Warner screwed up, and I think that will become apparent in a short time.

Good observations.

These same folks should write angry letters/posts to/about Sony for keeping up the game console war and that 20% market share doesn't give them the right to compete.

If Uni and Para stay exclusive, I think this year is going to be very interesting.

If nothing else, just following the numbers is going to be entertaining. HD DVD has 5 times the number of players out there than it did last year. Will the ratios move to 80:20 for the year? Will the 2 studios and their releases be able to hold their own for the second half of the year?

For me, it will be interesting to watch.

I am pretty sure every BD supporter with internet access has dropped in on one of the many threads here at AVS and espoused how HD DVD is dead and that HD DVD supporters should give it up and embrace BD going forward.

Logically, all of these BD supporters should immediately embrace HD DVD if Warner pulled a reversal. But I doubt they would display the graciousness they expect of others.

HD DVD has been declared dead since launch, this is nothing new. If it were truly over I doubt we would be seeing as much gamesmanship from the BD crowd in trying to convince all of the HD DVD supporters to abandon the format.

If it was definitively over there would be no need to sell anyone on giving up.

The way many BD supporters are acting is likely to steel people’s resolve to never support BD.

Besides, many people bought into HD DVD because they simply could not afford the alternative, and that isn’t going to suddenly change overnight just because Warner flipped.

The biggest barrier to adoption has always been and will always be price. Unifying to support the unaffordable option isn’t possible for many, and isn’t desirable for most. The price has to come down.

Unfortunately, this isn’t likely to happen anytime soon. Warner screwed up, and I think that will become apparent in a short time.


Lets face it, most of the Blu Fans are here to gloat in their victory.

I'd say Toshiba has lost.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/Crackbone/bluray_vs_hd_dvd_war_2.jpg

Remember the mantra -

If Warner goes red it's no biggie

If Warner goes blue the war is over today!

(Just a friendly reminder brought to you by the same folks who would nuke Paramount because they didn't get Transformers)

A lot of people have stated that the war would be won by Warner. Many of the blu-fans certainly did like to make it seem anything good for HDDVD would be bad for HDM.

I'd say Toshiba has lost.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/Crackbone/bluray_vs_hd_dvd_war_2.jpg

That picture says a thousand words.

Good observations.

These same folks should write angry letters/posts to/about Sony for keeping up the game console war and that 20% market share doesn't give them the right to compete.

But in all likelihood, the PS3 will last longer than HDDVD which had a lifespan of less than 2 years.

Good observations.

These same folks should write angry letters/posts to/about Sony for keeping up the game console war and that 20% market share doesn't give them the right to compete.
LMAO - great line.

Nobody in this really cares about customers. Toshiba made HDM players affordable as a business strategy, not a gift to consumers. In the end, that strategy backfired for consumers because it brought in non early adopter personalities into an early adopter phase of a new product. Hence the grieving process we are seeing here.
Agreed. Anyone that just wants to take advantage of a better experience than the SD DVD today would support an HD evolution. The only reason that I personally preferred the Blu-ray to the HD DVD is due to the lossless audio as I'm also an audiophile. However if HD DVD had a similar rate of lossless audio releases I might have very well bought into that camp. There really is no reason for anyone at our level to have had a bias for either format (other than the potential investment we'd lose) when all is said and done. Think of all of those users that didn't buy either one due to the confusion and of course the higher cost than SD DVD. Only the early adopters like us dove into all of the intricacies of each format to try and make our decisons off of. Many more consumers though will not understand much of the HD terminology (1080P, lossless audio, etc.) and that is the reality.

Great leaders should not make decisions based on emotion, especially when those decisions effect investors money, so for Toshiba to continue to poor money into this format would in all likelyhood get their CEO fired. Unless they discover a way to either turn the tides back into their favor or to still make money. Just using business sense neither of those two seem very plausable right now given the events that have taken place.

The key question is if any one of the members in this forum had 5 million dollars to invest would you honestly feel comfortable investing it with Toshiba and telling them to stay in the war? I would not!

Nobody in this really cares about customers. Toshiba made HDM players affordable as a business strategy, not a gift to consumers. In the end, that strategy backfired for consumers because it brought in non early adopter personalities into an early adopter phase of a new product. Hence the grieving process we are seeing here.

Wow...isn't that the whole point!! Bring non-early adapters in so you can push a format!?!?!? It doesn't sound like that strategy backfired, it is more like Warner made a knee-jerk decision based on Fox not budging.....

What really makes me scratch my head in this article is the author is saying Toshiba counted the HD-DVD add-on for the Xbox 360 in that 1 million sold figure. It is very disingenuous to not include then the 2.5 million+ PS3's sold in addition to the 1 million stand-alone players using their own figures again.

Blu-ray has 3.5 million players and 60% of media sold and people still think Universal and Paramount will not be switching sides and HD-DVD has any leg to stand on in a fight?

Think about it, 100% of the people who bought the addon for xbox wanted HD DVD, 100%. n% bought the ps3 for blu ray and x% bought it for games n+x= 2.5 million problem is we don't know which is what. so you can't add the 2.5 million players out there just because it plays the media. iPod controlls a huge percent of the mp3 player market so all of those iPods get their music from iTunes right?

iPod controlls a huge percent of the mp3 player market so all of those iPods get their music from iTunes right?

or Iphone ;) (Which coincidently I have never used Itunes. I just converted all my FLAC's to Mp3 and sync'd up. Good to gooooo.....)

Lets face it, most of the Blu Fans are here to gloat in their victory.

Let's also face it, most of the HD-DVD fans are here to vent out their frustrations and bring out their sour grapes.

Their duty to "the public" is well trumped by their duty to their shareholders. If there is still money to be made, then they need to make it.

Many people here (not you per se) seem to think of these companies as ideals or philosophies. They are companies in it for the profit. If Toshiba thinks they can make money with HD DVD, then they will most likely continue to do so until they can't.


No one is disputing their obligations to shareholders. Those same obligations entail them investing in X with resonable prospect of return. Toshiba by all accounts is spending and investing with minimal return as it is with all the players until this market takes off if indeed it does. That it takes off is the premise for accepting negative returns in the immediate sense. But when one the major backers of HD DVD and one of the biggest studios defects the shareholders will be wondering whether any further investment is warranted.

I'd say Toshiba has lost.


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v340/Crackbone/bluray_vs_hd_dvd_war_2.jpg
Wow. I don't even see crickets in the Toshiba/HD DVD both.....

Again even though I chose the Blu-ray route I would be just as releaved if the HD DVD had won over the Blu-ray. Granted that would have cost me a bit of an investement but let's face it most of those who've already entered the game are in it for the improvements that the technology offers. I haven't seen one valid arguement that a format war is actually going to help HDM in the long run. It may help us early adopters get better pricing and more enhancements at a quicker rate but we are a very small percentage of the market. Therefore why would one all of a sudden not want to take advantage of the HD benefits that HDM has to offer no matter which format prevailes?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/e/e7/DeadParrot.png

HD DVD's just resting!

Too bad the parrot is blue, eh? Sorry. Couldn't resist. :o

LMAO - great line.

Ooooh I would like a chance to make a video game and movie parallel as well. Since many people are now belittling Blu-Ray against standard DVD, I think this is valid. Xbox 360 has less than 10% of the PS2 installed base, someone should write a letter to Microsoft and tell them that they'll never overcome the PS2 and should simply quit now.

Of course I don't really mean that because I would simply be ridiculous much like the other poster who supposedly posted a "great line" according to you.

Good observations.

These same folks should write angry letters/posts to/about Sony for keeping up the game console war and that 20% market share doesn't give them the right to compete.

What a silly statement. How does the games console war compare to the HDM war.:rolleyes: Most gamers pick a side and only have one console. Of course there are those who play multiple formats but in no way is this the same as HDM.

No one is disputing their obligations to shareholders. Those same obligations entail them investing in X with resonable prospect of return. Toshiba by all accounts is spending and investing with minimal return as it is with all the players until this market takes off if indeed it does. That it takes off is the premise for accepting negative returns in the immediate sense. But when one the major backers of HD DVD and one of the biggest studios defects the shareholders will be wondering whether any further investment is warranted.

Definitely the case. If they make that decision it will be based on forecasted data from the high paid bean counters. If they think they can't make money, then who knows what they will do.

If this had happened in Jan 07, do you think Toshiba would have tried to bring Paramount over?

Who knows!

I know it's hard for all the Blu-Kool-Aid filled brains to fathom, but do you think the BDA would have abandoned BR if both Warner and Fox had gone HD DVD ? Think about that for a minute. :rolleyes:

I know it's hard for all the Blu-Kool-Aid filled brains to fathom, but do you think the BDA would have abandoned BR if both Warner and Fox had gone HD DVD ? Think about that for a minute. :rolleyes:

I would say all of them but Sony. With the PS3 Sony would have kept employing BD. I would imagine the rest would have at least gone neutral and then dropped BD. Thankfully that has not happened.:D:rolleyes:

Euro,

"but do you think the BDA would have abandoned BR if both Warner and Fox had gone HD DVD ?"

It doesn't matter what BDA would have done. What matters is what us "out here" would have done. And we would have dumped bluray and gone to hd-dvd.

Just like many of us are going to do now that Warner has dumped HD-DVD.

Wow...isn't that the whole point!! Bring non-early adapters in so you can push a format!?!?!? It doesn't sound like that strategy backfired, it is more like Warner made a knee-jerk decision based on Fox not budging.....

It was the point. It also failed to work. BD SA players were neck and neck with HD DVD at the end of the year, according to the HD DVD groups own statement, and they lagged in software sales all year.

Software sales lagged, in part, due to BOGOs but that was the BDA counter strategy. Does cheap software mean that Sony cares about customers?

I personally prefer cheap software over cheap players. Much cheaper in the long run.

I disagree that it was a knee jerk reaction. They have always stated they wanted the war to end. Going BD was the best way to do that given the support, software sales and hardware sales that existed on 1/1/08.

Since Toshiba pushed these non early adopters and lost, there is a backlash.

I still do not see where Toshiba cares about customers.

The format "war" isn't over just yet. We still have studio exclusives on each side...so no, Toshiba/HD DVD has not lost out to BD. There is still time for something crazy to happen...even though it may be unlikely.

What's surprising me with the WB news are the zealots who now wish all HDM to die if their format doesn't win. I just don't get it. "If I don't get a lollipop, then I don't want Billy to have a lollipop either." People are acting like a bunch of spoiled little children. It's on both sides too...

I thought everyone was on this board because we love movies and tv on HD media. What changed all of the sudden? How can you possibly go back to DVD or hope that downloads are the future if you loved HD media so much at one time. The format neutral people have always won in this "war" and they are still winning today.

The press continues to clobber HD-DVD. This is like Dan Quayle -- you just can't recover from this sort of treatment.

Blu-Ray Triumphs at Gadget Show
http://apnews.excite.com/article/20080107/D8U1AG7G0.html

LAS VEGAS (AP) - The International Consumer Electronics Show is turning out to be a celebration party for Blu-ray, the high-definition format that Sony Corp. (SNE) backed, and a wake for a rival movie disc technology pushed by Toshiba Corp. Just two months ago, Sony CEO Howard Stringer said the fight between Blu-ray and Toshiba's HD DVD was at a "stalemate," and expressed a wish to travel back in time to avert it.

The impasse was broken Friday by Warner Bros. Entertainment, the last major studio to put out movies in both formats. It announced it was ditching HD DVD, and from May on, would only publish on Blu-ray and traditional DVD. The decision puts a strong majority of the major studios, five versus two, in the Blu-ray camp.

Asked Monday at the show if the Warner announcement decides the format war, Stringer said: "I never put up banners that say 'Mission Accomplished.'" But his cheerful delivery belied his words.

By contrast, the main media event scheduled for the show by the North American HD DVD Promotional Group, which includes Intel Corp. (INTC) and Microsoft Corp. (MSFT), was canceled because of Warner's defection....

Another post where everyone claims to know everything...............

..................and nobody knows NOTHING!!

I buy red when I can and blu when I can't, just like I did before last Friday.

Thank you, I got cut for throwing in a opinion cause everybody else knows what Toshiba should do 100%. How come you guys aren't working for Toshiba?

The press continues to clobber HD-DVD. This is like Dan Quayle -- you just can't recover from this sort of treatment.



Yep - the media will do HD DVD in faster than Warner or retailers IMO.

time