In my computer room I have a Dell 2405 LCD monitor and it has several input types (component, s-video, etc), however apparantly the scaler (and deinterlacer) is absolute garbage because 480p looks horrible so I'm trying to figure out a solution so I can play my Wii and PS2 and have it look decent.

What do I need to do to get this thing looking decent?

Apparantly, 480p will never look on the Dell 2405 monitor so I've thought about using my 19" CRT monitor, but I have no way to hook the PS2 up to it. I can buy a cheap VGA box (eg. line doubler [480i --> 480p]) but I've heard the quality is really bad and I might as well just stick to my Dell 2405 internal scaler.

That leaves my only choice with buying a new television just for playing the PS2 but I'm really hoping to avoid that.

Any help is greatly appriciated...

Buy a tv-card for your computer and use that, it will use the video card to scale up and usually does a very good job. I have an ATI hdtv wonder with svideo and composite inputs that works well and if the source is clean it lookds good, however it can be a pain to turn off time-shift (meaning there is a split second delay between what's on screen and what is being sent due to dvr capabilities).

I'm going to go out on a limb here and guess that the monitor is hooked up to a PC (to clarify, I'm not trying to be condescinding, I often use my 22" HP away from the computer.) That being the case, try using a video capture device and running the PS2 through that. Buddy of mine does that with his old PSone and it looks great. And you should be able to find a USB capture device pretty cheap. If you do go that route, can you post your findings here for us? Specifically how it looked going through the pc vs the monitor's internal scaler. I'm sure there's a lot more people in the same boat.

Edit: Darn you Bobzdar, you beat me to it :)

There is easy solution to get good results from the PS2 via VGA (edit... I never tried the options mentioned above, but I like gamer-quality vid cards in my computers). It simply was not designed to take advantage of computer monitors. I tried various adaptors back in the day but they all are weak options because that's not what the PS2 was made for (the Dreamcast looked great on VGA monitors by comparison).

Component gives the best signal for PS2 games provided those games allow for progressive output (like God of War 2, Tekken 5, etc.). Also, the PS3 has some decent options to improve the visual output in PS2 games that I think look pretty good considering HDTVs excel at accentuating the lower rez nature of games on the system.

Instead of buying a new TV just for the PS2 (which is rather mind-boggling... no offense), spend less by just getting a 60GB or 80GB PS3 and you will have the best solution for your problems, plus the opportunity to play PS3 games and Blu-Ray movies.

Thanks for all of the replies!

I've considered buying a PS3, but it's out of my budget right now. I'm curious though, does it upscale all PS2 games to 480p? (does it do a decent job?)

As far the TV capture card, I've heard that idea a lot and I currently only have a composite-input capture card so naturally the quality is terrible. I'm tempted to buy an svideo-input capture card but I'm worried about the delay/lag and the quality. Does anybody have any suggestions for a good capture card? (I've heard the ATI Theater 650 Pro is good but costs about $125 [a bit pricey but not bad]).

What do you guys think about the cheap VGA box + old 19" CRT solution? By using the CRT monitor I won't have a scaling issue (right?), but I've heard that the cheap VGA boxes will have really bad quality...

The PS3 may be a good option, it can upscale your PS2 games to 1080p. Your monitor has a 1920x1200 resolution though so it will still have to do some vertical scaling which may result in your games looking a little stretched but they'll look a hell of a lot better than they do now. If you're lucky you're monitor may an option for 1:1 pixel mapping so it will display your games in 1080p and display thin black bars at the top and bottom where the unused pixels are.

Edit: Remember if you do go the PS3 route get an 80gb, the 40gb consoles are not backwards compatible.

In my computer room I have a Dell 2405 LCD monitor and it has several input types (component, s-video, etc), however apparantly the scaler (and deinterlacer) is absolute garbage because 480p looks horrible so I'm trying to figure out a solution so I can play my Wii and PS2 and have it look decent.

What do I need to do to get this thing looking decent?

Apparantly, 480p will never look on the Dell 2405 monitor so I've thought about using my 19" CRT monitor, but I have no way to hook the PS2 up to it. I can buy a cheap VGA box (eg. line doubler [480i --> 480p]) but I've heard the quality is really bad and I might as well just stick to my Dell 2405 internal scaler.


That leaves my only choice with buying a new television just for playing the PS2 but I'm really hoping to avoid that.

Any help is greatly appriciated...

Ok are you using composite or component cables for the Wii? Composite is red, yellow, and white and it wont run at 480p=progresive, it'll run at 480i=interlace mode. Now if your running the Wii at 480i, yes what happens is if the lcd display dell doesnt have a high quality deinterlacer chip then any interlace mode source will have some issues like you might see, lots more combing thin lines throughout the whole screen especially when theres movement of the screen, also you might see the whole screen, more noticeable if you stareing at a still image, you'll see it vibrate/jitter. Also just the overall look to the games it wont look vibrant colorful, it'll kind of look washed out, even running at 480p will look like that.

Forgot to mention usually a 480p signal or any progresive signal will not produce artifact issues like combing, vibration/jitter type issues on a lcd display, but again it still wont look vibrant/colorful like it would on a CRT display. And also running a interlace signal on a CRT display you wont see that vibration/jitter type issues but you might still see combing lines depending on the quality of the comb filter of the crt display, but the overall look of the games will appear more vibrant/colorful. To make it clear progresive will get rid of all interlace type artifact issues! But if you still dont like the way it loks its probably because it looks more washed out color wise than on a CRT display. LCD displays are progresive native displays, so most lcd's wont display interlace video unless they put in a deinterlacer chip.

The reason is lcd displays dont hide the quality of the resolution source so if you feeding a low quality video like 480i/p then it wont look good, you can even see video noise of the video/games. The same thing i said aplys to the ps2 as well.

Dont get one of those vga boxes they work really like crap worst then your dell for sure and I havent even see your dell in action. I'm sure your dell is better than the Bestbuy brand Insignia hdtv lcd 19 ich I tried about a year ago with my slim ps2 this tv had a cheap deinterlacer chip. You know what gateway makes a 22 inch Gateway FPD2275W lcd that has a very good deinterlacer chip called "Fajdoura" its probably the best small size non hdtv display running low interlace/progresive sources like the Wii, ps2, gamecube, xbox, etc. It'll be ready for the newer consoles like 360, ps3. Because it has all the hookups, vga for xbox 360, component for ps3, composite, s-video. It'll run up to 1080i....

Thanks again for the replies.

I've tried using component (RGB / YPrPb) cables as well as s-video on the monitor and even the component cables look like garbage. (to answer the question above)

I don't think I'm quite ready to jump to the PS3 yet (espicially since it's $500 for the backwards compatible model [the 80GB version]).

How does the PS3 look on 720p native resolution HDTVs? I've been trying to find a cheap 640x480 (EDTV) LCD television, but they are very hard to find. However, they have lots of cheap 720p televisions (20" for around $250!). However, since my entire point is playing 480i and 480p content, I'm guessing the 720p native resolution televisions will look bad.

This is frustrating how difficult it is to play PS2 games anymore! :)

Thanks again for the replies.

I've tried using component (RGB / YPrPb) cables as well as s-video on the monitor and even the component cables look like garbage. (to answer the question above)

I don't think I'm quite ready to jump to the PS3 yet (espicially since it's $500 for the backwards compatible model [the 80GB version]).

How does the PS3 look on 720p native resolution HDTVs? I've been trying to find a cheap 640x480 (EDTV) LCD television, but they are very hard to find. However, they have lots of cheap 720p televisions (20" for around $250!). However, since my entire point is playing 480i and 480p content, I'm guessing the 720p native resolution televisions will look bad.



This is frustrating how difficult it is to play PS2 games anymore! :)

Yes even component cable will look the same as composite becuase its all about the video signal your feeding. It doesnt matter if your using the component cables, your still feeding it 480i/p. Component really is useful for HD signal like 720p-1080p.

Even if you get a 720p lcd hdtv display if your going to feed it 480i/p it might not still look good to you it all depends on the brand you get. If you want a display to make a 480i/p signal look good as possible with no artifact issues you got to get like a 700-1000 dollar display. Like a sharp aqous 32 inch they are like 700 bucks, or like a 32 inch sony bravia they are like 700-800 bucks. And of course they will be awesome in the future for you with a xbox360 or ps3. If you get a 500 dollar and lower display most likey it'll have issues with interlace mode. Unless you do reasearching and find a good low price display like the Gateway I mention then it'll be good and its cheap like 250 bucks, your local bestbuy and circuit city still might have some in stock.

Go to this forum site and start a thread in the display section, alot of people there had or has expeirence in consoles and displays:

http://www.hardforum.com/index.php

Thanks again for the replies.

I've tried using component (RGB / YPrPb) cables as well as s-video on the monitor and even the component cables look like garbage. (to answer the question above)

I don't think I'm quite ready to jump to the PS3 yet (espicially since it's $500 for the backwards compatible model [the 80GB version]).

How does the PS3 look on 720p native resolution HDTVs? I've been trying to find a cheap 640x480 (EDTV) LCD television, but they are very hard to find. However, they have lots of cheap 720p televisions (20" for around $250!). However, since my entire point is playing 480i and 480p content, I'm guessing the 720p native resolution televisions will look bad.

This is frustrating how difficult it is to play PS2 games anymore! :)

It's going to depend entirely on the scaler in the TV. Chances are any TV you're gonna pay $250 for is gonna have garbage scaler. I could be wrong though, I'm just guessing.

Honestly if you want your PS2 games to look their best, play them on an SD CRT. For two reasons: First of all the TVs resolution will match what your PS2 is outputting, this is exactly what you want. Second, CRT is still considered by many to be the best the best display technology available because of it's fast refresh rate, deep black, and accurate color.

Then again I managed to nab my 32" Sharp Aquos on sale and with a 10% off coupon for just under $600 and it handles 480i beautifully and 480p even better, in games at least.

It's going to depend entirely on the scaler in the TV. Chances are any TV you're gonna pay $250 for is gonna have garbage scaler. I could be wrong though, I'm just guessing.

Honestly if you want your PS2 games to look their best, play them on an SD CRT. For two reasons: First of all the TVs resolution will match what your PS2 is outputting, this is exactly what you want. Second, CRT is still considered by many to be the best the best display technology available because of it's fast refresh rate, deep black, and accurate color.

Then again I managed to nab my 32" Sharp Aquos on sale and with a 10% off coupon for just under $600 and it handles 480i beautifully and 480p even better, in games at least.

Yea excatly what bkchurch says, the only best cheap around 250 bucks display is that gateway I mention here, because it doesnt scale anything up or down if you dont want it to since it has option to do so so your seeing the real signal video feed straight to the gateway without that scaling artifacts..

Won't all EDTV's work perfectly with 480i and 480p content? The native resolution for EDTV is 640x480 so the scaler wouldn't be used at all (right?).

How would 480i look on an EDTV?

Won't all EDTV's work perfectly with 480i and 480p content? The native resolution for EDTV is 640x480 so the scaler wouldn't be used at all (right?).

How would 480i look on an EDTV?

480i would look fine on an EDTV assuming it deinterlaces well. Most of the EDTVs I've seen though have a res 854x480 though because they're widescreen.

An EDTV is kind of a waste of money though, for what you'd pay for it you're not gonna get any improvement over a nice SD CRT (in fact because it will probably be a cheap plasma or LCD it will probably look worse than the CRT) and for a couple hundred dollars more you could probably buy a decent HDTV.

Won't all EDTV's work perfectly with 480i and 480p content? The native resolution for EDTV is 640x480 so the scaler wouldn't be used at all (right?).

How would 480i look on an EDTV?

Well again if your going to feed it 480p then it wont have those motion artifacts like interlace mode. depending on the quality of the line doubler (deinterlacer), 480i might or not have issues. 480p its gonna problably look the same as your dell, it shouldt have any interlacing type artifacts. We're talking about lcd displays here!

Now if you get a EDTV crt display then the 480i/p will look even better because like bkvhurch said the blacks will be better, colors seem more vibrant, no ghosting or lag to worry about.

Well again if your going to feed it 480p then it wont have those motion artifacts like interlace mode. depending on the quality of the line doubler (deinterlacer), 480i might or not have issues. 480p its gonna problably look the same as your dell, it shouldt have any interlacing type artifacts. We're talking about lcd displays here!

Now if you get a EDTV crt display then the 480i/p will look even better because like bkvhurch said the blacks will be better, colors seem more vibrant, no ghosting or lag to worry about.

Wait a minute do they even make EDTV crt's? So you might have to disregard my EDTV crt sentence there.

Another note On a 19" CRT TV set the picture looks terrific because the scan lines and the errors introduced by interlacing are too small to see. But on a larger TV the scan lines have become more visible of interlace mode, but still better looking then a lcd display.

Well again if your going to feed it 480p then it wont have those motion artifacts like interlace mode. depending on the quality of the line doubler (deinterlacer), 480i might or not have issues. 480p its gonna problably look the same as your dell, it shouldt have any interlacing type artifacts. We're talking about lcd displays here!

Now if you get a EDTV crt display then the 480i/p will look even better because like bkvhurch said the blacks will be better, colors seem more vibrant, no ghosting or lag to worry about.

I've never seen a 480p CRT unless it was a RP-CRT that also displayed 1080i. Anyway I don't think it's necessarily interlacing artifacts that are bothering him, it's the fact that his monitor is a high resolution computer monitor. Being that scalers in monitors almost always suck (as is the case with his monitor) he just getting a jaggy and blurry mess as the POS in his otherwise very nice monitor tries to scale and de-interlace his 480i signal to 8 times it's resolution.

Again, the best method he's gonna have is buying a nice SD CRT as that's what these games were made for and CRT is just generally a damn fine display technology anyway. His second best option is buy a PS3 and let it scale it scale to 1080p and hope the monitor does a decent job scaling up to 1920x1200 from there.

Well, I realize an EDTV might be a waste of money but I don't want to buy an extra "HDTV" because it will be 720p and thus look badly for 480i and 480p.

I can buy a cheap CRT SDTV but then I'll only be able to play the Wii in 480i (which will look worse than 480p on my Dell?)

I'm thinking about just forgetting the whole thing and just playing on my monitor and dealing with it.

I'm also going to post a new thread asking if anybody has the Xploder PS2 VGA cable (which requires the Xploder PS2 software). I'd like to give that a try on my old 19" CRT monitor...

I've never seen a 480p CRT unless it was a RP-CRT that also displayed 1080i. Anyway I don't think it's necessarily interlacing artifacts that are bothering him, it's the fact that his monitor is a high resolution computer monitor. Being that scalers in monitors almost always suck (as is the case with his monitor) he just getting a jaggy and blurry mess as the POS in his otherwise very nice monitor tries to scale and de-interlace his 480i signal to 8 times it's resolution.

Again, the best method he's gonna have is buying a nice SD CRT as that's what these games were made for and CRT is just generally a damn fine display technology anyway. His second best option is buy a PS3 and let it scale it scale to 1080p and hope the monitor does a decent job scaling up to 1920x1200 from there.

I was assuming he was seeing interlacing artifacts, thats what I'v been through long time ago. He hasnt really said what hes seeing........

Well, I realize an EDTV might be a waste of money but I don't want to buy an extra "HDTV" because it will be 720p and thus look badly for 480i and 480p.

I can buy a cheap CRT SDTV but then I'll only be able to play the Wii in 480i (which will look worse than 480p on my Dell?)

I'm thinking about just forgetting the whole thing and just playing on my monitor and dealing with it.

I'm also going to post a new thread asking if anybody has the Xploder PS2 VGA cable (which requires the Xploder PS2 software). I'd like to give that a try on my old 19" CRT monitor...

Its funny my nephew has a 19 inch jvc SDTV crt and his Wii with composite looked awesome for some reason, it loked vibrant just awesome looking, even his ps3 and 360 running with composite cables, YES composite cables looked just awesome looking and they are running at 480i. Its probably like I said the smaller the screen it hides artifacts more........

Well, I realize an EDTV might be a waste of money but I don't want to buy an extra "HDTV" because it will be 720p and thus look badly for 480i and 480p.

I can buy a cheap CRT SDTV but then I'll only be able to play the Wii in 480i (which will look worse than 480p on my Dell?)

I'm thinking about just forgetting the whole thing and just playing on my monitor and dealing with it.

I'm also going to post a new thread asking if anybody has the Xploder PS2 VGA cable (which requires the Xploder PS2 software). I'd like to give that a try on my old 19" CRT monitor...

What kind of issues things are you seeing BTW........

What kind of issues things are you seeing BTW........
On my Dell 2405 it's very blurry and the colors are a little bland.

The blurryness is the main problem. If I set my monitor to 1:1 pixel ratio, then it looks fine but the display area is TINY! :)

On my Dell 2405 it's very blurry and the colors are a little bland.

The blurryness is the main problem. If I set my monitor to 1:1 pixel ratio, then it looks fine but the display area is TINY! :)

Ok now we know hehe The bland color is jsut like I was saying earlier about the colors seeming less vibrant/washed out. Thats going to happen with even a 800 dollar lcd display running a 480i/p signal. Maybe just a little better on the 800 dollar display, but as we said the CRT's will be more vibrant in colors especially smaller crt's.

Now the blurryness has to do with the scalling and or bad deinterlacer chip if you doing it in interlace mode also, to fill the screen, but if you use that 1:1 ratio option just like that gateway I mention has then you will have the black areas around the screen becuase the monitor is showing the real signal feed size basically. It might look better colorwise like you said, but if its a interlace signal then you might see the interlacing artifacts. But I guess your not seeing interalacing artifacts like combing, vibrating/jitter!

So you have to jsut deal with it being smaller on the screen with that 1:1 ratio, like others had to in the past with the older consoles. Alot of people always where happy to have a lcd monitor with that 1:1 pixel ratio option.....

On my Dell 2405 it's very blurry and the colors are a little bland.

The blurryness is the main problem. If I set my monitor to 1:1 pixel ratio, then it looks fine but the display area is TINY! :)

Also forgot to mention the farther your sitting away from the screen then it'll look better, even on a good display running at 720p for example if you inches from the screen looking around for issues then you going to see some things, maybe like wavy lines, video noise, etc.....

Just sit farther and play for couple minutes it'll probably look better too.

VGA converters should be out of the question; I tried three of them on the PS2 and they look terrible. I still think getting the 80GB PS3 is the best option since you have perfectly working monitors. I understand money is an issue, but here is the cheapest way to do it...

Go to sonystyle.com (http://www.sonystyle.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?catalogId=10551&storeId=10151&langId=-1&productId=8198552921665225458) and sign up for their credit card. Use it to buy the 80 GB PS3 from their site and you will get a $100 credit when the statement comes in. That means your net cost will be $400 for a PS3, Motostorm, and the five free Blu-ray movies the deal allows.

That is much better than paying, say, $300 for a new set when you already have perfectly good displays already. And as I said, the deal allows you to play PS2 games enhanced over what is possible on even a good TV, play PS3 games, and watch Blu-ray movies. Just cut up the card when you pay it off. I did this deal last year when it gave out $150... it is basically free money (IF you pay it in full and cut up the card).

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I can buy a cheap CRT SDTV but then I'll only be able to play the Wii in 480i (which will look worse than 480p on my Dell?)



Absolutely not. Your Dell isn't displaying 480p, it's taking 480p and scaling it 1920x1200p with a god awful scaler chip so it's gonna look bad. PS2 and Wii games render at 640x480, this is standard definition. Yes the Wii can output progressive instead of interlaced on some games (as can the PS2) but it's still gonna look crap after you scale it to 8 times the resolution it's rendered at and change it from a 4:3 or 16:9 aspect ratio to a 16:10 aspect ratio.

These games are made for SDTVs. They look best on SDTVs. The only reason some of them can even render at 480p in the first place, as opposed to 480i, is so HDTVs won't have to go through the difficult and relatively long de-interlacing process so they scale better and they scale faster.

Edit: O btw the Xploder is a piece of crap. Don't bother with it, it's time consuming and will actually scale worse than your monitors POS scaling chip.

Does the Wii generate true 480p content? If so, wouldn't I need a progressive scan television to get the full quality? (eg. isn't 480p twice the quality of 480i?)

Does the Wii generate true 480p content? If so, wouldn't I need a progressive scan television to get the full quality? (eg. isn't 480p twice the quality of 480i?)

Yes the Wii renders 640x480 progressively. No 480p is not twice the quality of 480i, it's the same resolution it just renders progressively instead of an interlaced fashion. A CRT with a fast refresh rate (aka all CRT TVs) running 480i is gonna look better than a low-quality plasma or LCD EDTV that's displaying the same resolution in a progressive fashion. And it's gonna look a hell of a lot better than 480p upscaled to HD resolutions.

It sounds to me like you need to go do some research and understand how different resolutions work and how TVs work before you go any further with this.

Does the Wii generate true 480p content? If so, wouldn't I need a progressive scan television to get the full quality? (eg. isn't 480p twice the quality of 480i?)

Even a SDTV running at 480i with the Wii will still look good compared to your dell running at 480i or 480p. I would just buy a non heavy 19-22 inch SDTV around that size with component inputs it'll look very good.

Heck I even played my slim ps2 via component on my big SDTV JVC I'ART 4:3 36 inch TV playing GOD of WAR 2, all looked awesome....