My mother still has trouble getting our tv and everything on despite having used a Harmony 676. Since her and my sister sometimes tend to turn components on and off physically, the remote is always turning off some things that need to be on. Furthermore, we want to add either RF or an IR extender to allow the components all a clear line of sight.

I understand that the problem is that most components only have one signal for power rather than dedicated on and off signals. But I am wondering if there are any remotes that are somehow self aware of whether components are on and off that would mediate my mothers problems. Thanks.

Many components have discreet on/off codes, even if the original remote only has the single power toggle button (let's face it, from a "human" interface the toggle is much better). The problem is that the Harmony, even if it knows about discreet on/off codes, still keeps the on/off state of the component in its memory. To me this defeats the purpose of having discreet codes, but whatever (arguing with first-level support was an exercise in futility).

What I *had* done in the past was to add the discreet on/off codes to the pre/post commands that you can set up for each activity (for the life of me I cannot remember where, but using the troubleshooting wizard you should be able to locate it quickly).

Also, while my DVD player did not have on/of discreet codes, it would turn on automatically if sent the Play code while it was turned off. So I used that fact to ensure that it was on when I started and off when I finished (to make sure it was off, Play then PowerToggle). From what I heard later, a lot of players have the same function -- they turn on if you hit Play.

The Harmony series will track which devices are on or off when going from one activity to the next. You can choose to leave on only the devices required for viewing or have them all on until the moment you press the master power off button.

That's in theory. Your mileage may vary depending on how the remote is setup or where your components are.

The problem is that the Harmony, even if it knows about discreet on/off codes, still keeps the on/off state of the component in its memory.

Not entirely correct. If the device power setup is set to one command to Power On & one command to Power Off (if real discretes are available), simply pressing help once will bypass Smart State, sending again ALL discrete codes relevant for the activity (including Power On and discrete inputs)

However, unlike discrete input commands, the Harmony will not send a Power On command when selecting again an activity already in use.

Thanks, looks like the Harmony setup may be the only way. I was hoping there was a remote that was somehow able to sense components being on and off in order to get rid of the problem completely, but apparently not. I will look into programmming discrete codes into the harmony and see what I can do.

The MSC-400 has sensors. They can detect voltage or signal. Using a conditional statement, you could say, "if there is voltage then PowerON=true" and just run that every time you need the macro to detect the power state of various components. It also has RF and IR routing, so it can be out of sight.

Not entirely correct. If the device power setup is set to one command to Power On & one command to Power Off (if real discretes are available), simply pressing help once will bypass Smart State, sending again ALL discrete codes relevant for the activity (including Power On and discrete inputs)

However, unlike discrete input commands, the Harmony will not send a Power On command when selecting again an activity already in use.

Ah, is that new? I was wondering why, when you first hit the Help button it immediately asks "Did that help the problem?" I was wondering what it thought it had done to fix it? Then one time I did that I had the TV off (kids playing games) and when I hit Help it turned it on (previous times I had hit Help when the input was wrong).

A quick side question. I had moved my older 520 up to the bedroom. Almost everything's set up as it should be now, except the TV inputs are acting strangely. The TV has three inputs (Tuner, Input1, Input 2) and it *always* cycles through, even when it's already on the right input. So, if I was watching TV (Input 2 from the STB), then switch off, then go back to watching TV, it turns it on (correct Input, I get audio on immediately since the STB is always on), then it cycles through Input2, tuner then back to Input1. Why does it do that? I have the TV device set up to say that it remains on the same channel/input when powered off.

It's a Toshiba TV, but I have not tried the last option (the one that says something like "If you have a Toshiba or if you press one button to select the input menu and other buttons to pick specific inputs").

I'm not sure why it does that, but if your only source on that TV is the STB, you could edit the input list to just one, avoiding input toggle commands.

Nah, I've got the DVD/VCR and an occasional Gamecube hooked up there (currently the DVD/VCR is hooked up to - gulp - channel 3). It's just an old TV, and out only one with a VCR (for the younger kids' movies).

I'll give it a try on all the other settings (option 4 for Toshibas being the first) and hope one of them works.

Edit: Well, no luck at all. I could not try option 4 because the only button/code there is for switching inputs is the TV/Video button, which is a classic cycle button.

A minor correction. The cycling through all inputs happens only when I "Watch TV", which is on Input1. For the DVD/VCR actions (keeping in mind they are on Tuner channel 3) it does something weird. First it puts it on channel 4 (which will set the TV to Tuner, if it was on Input1/2) then it enters 03 to put it on channel 3. It appears that it is ignoring the TV/Video button to cycle through the inputs, using the trick that entering a channel number gets it to Tuner directly. Why it doesn't got to 03 right away -- who knows.

Since this is not my main setup, I don't really care that much (other than to satisfy my own curiosity). Since the Gamecube is now downstairs I can just patch the DVD/VCR through Input2 -- maybe this will make all the other craziness just go away.