From the HD Guru review:

"The LA65-A90 uses a Texas Instruments .65” Dark Chip 4 DLP (Digital Light Processor) as the microdisplay imager."

Is it my imagination or is that the first confirmation that they are using the Dark Chip 4 on the LaserVue? For some reason I don't recall seeing that before.

Actually the XBR2 SXRDs that we both have falls short of reaching the proper REC 709 Green Primary Position and too a lesser extent on the Red Primary position, thus your use of the word exaggerated is somewhat contradictory to how they really perform as the gamut is compressed, not expanded.


That’s very odd, how did you come to that conclusion? Every CIE diagram I have seen for the XBR2 and all other SXRD models except the A3000 show an excessively wide gamut, that incudes CIE data from UMR and my own measurements, not only that’s but all the CIE diagrams from every source look very similar.
As far as I am aware you are the only person to say that the gamut is restricted, If you have measurements that show under saturated primaries I would suggest your measurements are inaccurate, ether that or everyone else’s measurements are way off.


Measured Color Points:
SXRD Red x.674 y.324
Laserview Natural Red x.679 y.308
Rec. 709 Red x.640 y.330

SXRD Green x.288 y.693
Laserview Natural Green x.292 y.679
Rec. 709 Green x.300 y.600

SXRD Blue x.142 y.054
Lazervierw Natural Blue x.162 y.050
Rec. 709 Blue x.150 y.060

According to these numbers the SXRD is closer to the target for Red then Laserview, Green is a little closer on the Laserview and Blue is a big worry for the Laserview, it is way off.
Blue is unlike any display I have seen and explains why Laserview looks "different" to every other display out there.

Sources.
http://hometheatermag.com/rearprojectiontvs/207rptvface/index3.html
http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

That’s very odd, how did you come to that conclusion? Every CIE diagram I have seen for the XBR2 and all other SXRD models except the A3000 show an excessively wide gamut, that incudes CIE data from UMR and my own measurements, not only that’s but all the CIE diagrams from every source look very similar.
As far as I am aware you are the only person to say that the gamut is restricted, If you have measurements that show under saturated primaries I would suggest your measurements are inaccurate, ether that or everyone else’s measurements are way off.

As every measurement i have seen on a SXRD has been done on a SpectroRadioMeter worth $8k - $20k and known to be spot on accurate for color, I seriously doubt that. If memory serves correct, you have a Spyder and by your own admission it was not accurate http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11416905#post11416905 , though I suspect you could have made the same corrections I noted that will change your gamut constantly depending on light level of the source, which also answers question about the other measurements you referenced.

A constant gamut (even if compressed) is superior to a gamut that expands and contracts with changing light levels.

Is it my imagination or is that the first confirmation that they are using the Dark Chip 4 on the LaserVue?

I don't know if that's been explicitly stated before, but I think it was certainly expected. All of their DLPs this year have been DC4. No reason to expect the LV to go backwards.

Their hostility to calibration has left them with no place in much of the custom install market. Now they are going to need the very dealers that they have blown off in favor of the big box dealers.

I know that Mitsubishi sets historically have been pretty horrible out of the box. Color temp north of 10k, massive red push and so on. Subsequent to the days of their CRT sets, I was wondering why they are anti calibration? Is it because their current sets cannot be calibrated as close to NTSC standards as some of the competition?

As every measurement i have seen on a SXRD has been done on a SpectroRadioMeter worth $8k - $20k and known to be spot on accurate for color, I seriously doubt that. If memory serves correct, you have a Spyder and by your own admission it was not accurate http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=11416905#post11416905 , though I suspect you could have made the same corrections I noted that will change your gamut constantly depending on light level of the source, which also answers question about the other measurements you referenced.

A constant gamut (even if compressed) is superior to a gamut that expands and contracts with changing light levels.

The Spyder was useless on the SXRD as it was on my CRT RPTV, I now use an Eye One which works very well on the SXRD. I get the same sort of response as every other test of the SXRD I have been able to find on the net, every one of which shows the same wide gamut I see. If you are measuring something different I think you have a problem.
I have not used the UMR trick to constrain the red and green primaries, primary – secondary balance is good as it is, if it’s not broken don’t fix it.
I have always been very happy with color on the SXRD, the only complains I have are black level (even with the set modified to deliver Kuro level blacks) and the anti reflective screen, which I’m not keen on.

As for Laserview I don’t see it as a viable upgrade, imperfect backs and noise make it a non starter in my book. G10 Kuro seems like a more likely candidate for me, provided they release a 70” plus model.

How do we know for sure that the current version of the LaserVue's firmware won't allow color point changes? The other models in their current line allow this in the SM, so why wouldn't the LaserVue be able to do the same?

When I went to see the LaserVue I was told by two of the sales reps at the store that there was a possibility and rumblings of Mitsubishi putting out an 82" LaserVue. As much as I'd want one, that's just a bit too overwhelming for my TV room.

But it certainly appears that the 82" rumours are being heard by multiple sources, so hopefully that bodes well for seeing it in the future.

Would be nice if they just concentrated on getting the 73 out. Does anyone here know someone who has actually bought one of these LV's , has it at home , and can give an honest evaluation??

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

Thanks, but you were scooped by post #2722 back on page 91. ;)

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=14927476#post14927476

They have the set on display as of today at electronics expo on rt 17norht in paramus nj

How do we know for sure that the current version of the LaserVue's firmware won't allow color point changes? The other models in their current line allow this in the SM, so why wouldn't the LaserVue be able to do the same?

The range is not great enough to reposition the green to the proper Rec. 709 Green x.300 y.600.

Again, note the figures from www.hdguru.com


Laserview Natural Red x.679 y.308
Rec. 709 Red x.640 y.330
Difference .039 .028

Laserview Natural Green x.292 y.679
Rec. 709 Green x.300 y.600
Difference .008 .079

Lazervierw Natural Blue x.162 y.050
Rec. 709 Blue x.150 y.060
Difference .012 .010

As you can see the Green .y is 0.079 off (twice as far as any other) and the current firmware will not let you move it that far, which is exactly what I referred to when I originally posted this info at the beginning of this week.

The Spyder was useless on the SXRD as it was on my CRT RPTV, I now use an Eye One which works very well on the SXRD. I get the same sort of response as every other test of the SXRD I have been able to find on the net, every one of which shows the same wide gamut I see. If you are measuring something different I think you have a problem.
I have not used the UMR trick to constrain the red and green primaries, primary – secondary balance is good as it is, if it’s not broken don’t fix it.
I have always been very happy with color on the SXRD, the only complains I have are black level (even with the set modified to deliver Kuro level blacks) and the anti reflective screen, which I’m not keen on.

As for Laserview I don’t see it as a viable upgrade, imperfect backs and noise make it a non starter in my book. G10 Kuro seems like a more likely candidate for me, provided they release a 70” plus model.


If you want to take this to the XBR2 thread, fine, but considering the gamut looks the same with a PR-655, i1 Pro and Microspec on the same and multiple sets, I don't think its me with an issue.

The range is not great enough to reposition the green to the proper Rec. 709 Green x.300 y.600.

As you can see the Green .y is 0.079 off (twice as far as any other) and the current firmware will not let you move it that far, which is exactly what I referred to when I originally posted this info at the beginning of this week.

I've searched this thread looking for information to back up these statements but have found nothing. Maybe I missed it. Please provide some documented proof that the Mits does not have the ability to properly position the primaries to the 709 standard.

I've searched this thread looking for information to back up these statements but have found nothing. Maybe I missed it. Please provide some documented proof that the Mits does not have the ability to properly position the primaries to the 709 standard.

You will likely find no proof that it does nor does not have the ability. Get a copy of the service and training documentation from Mits and you will see that there is no documentation for any calibration adjustments that might exist. So calibrators who have experience with the service menus in previous Mits models will have to tinker with it to try to figure it out. There may or may not be the ability to get to the standard, but based on past experience with Mitsubishi and its corporate hostility to anyone trying to calibrate their sets to anything other than OOB levels, I suspect it will be unlikely that the sets will be able to be precisely calibrated. Time will tell, and only until some of the better Mits calibrators get to play with it will we be sure.

If you want to take this to the XBR2 thread, fine, but considering the gamut looks the same with a PR-655, i1 Pro and Microspec on the same and multiple sets, I don't think its me with an issue.

Yes, as I said and you seem to agree, ALL available measurements using pro grade meters show the same thing, seems you are misinterpreting the data. They all show oversaturated green and red primaries
Please post a link to a test that shows under saturated primaries on an SXRD in the XBR2 thread, I cant find one anywhere.

I've searched this thread looking for information to back up these statements but have found nothing. Maybe I missed it. Please provide some documented proof that the Mits does not have the ability to properly position the primaries to the 709 standard.

For the final time, this is the result of testing a set with a Minolta CS-2000 in the last 2 weeks. I am sorry if that does not give you enough evidence at this point in time. As earlier noted, you can wait for more people to report it or choose to ignore it.

The fact that I reported it prior to the www.hdguru.com review and told you exactly which color it was as well - and then you can see the numbers from his report for the exact primary should tell indicate to any junior detective that perhaps i do have some knowledge of what I am saying.

You might also ask lcaillo if I did not tell him in a private message roughly 2 weeks ago of a unit about to be measured with a High End SpectroRadioMeter that he knows from another source has now been measured exactly as I stated.

For the final time, this is the result of testing a set with a Minolta CS-2000 in the last 2 weeks. I am sorry if that does not give you enough evidence at this point in time. As earlier noted, you can wait for more people to report it or choose to ignore it.

The fact that I reported it prior to the www.hdguru.com review and told you exactly which color it was as well - and then you can see the numbers from his report for the exact primary should tell indicate to any junior detective that perhaps i do have some knowledge of what I am saying.

You might also ask lcaillo if I did not tell him in a private message roughly 2 weeks ago of a unit about to be measured with a High End SpectroRadioMeter that he knows from another source has now been measured exactly as I stated.

Well, it seems you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

I was only trying to see some hard data (color point coordinates) on a LV that someone had actually attempted to calibrate. I guess this has not been posted as yet, so I have to be a bit more patient. It appears hdguru only measured the factory set color points in the "Natural" mode. So, unless I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading, we still don't know if the Mits can be adjusted to 709 using the SM.

Please let me know, without any condescension, if I'm reading the available information correctly.

Well, at least some people are getting to see this "critter" at first hand. i have a Mit. DLP unit for about 6 months. The rainbow effect is really bothersome to me. Every tourch, candle, or spotlight seems to be in triplicate and in a couple of colors. Can anyone comment on the rainbow effect with the laser units. At some point i read that this would be nil because of the way the laser works. But i have also seen (almost in passing) that the rainbow effect is still visiable. No need to comment on theories....just those that can see them in regular DLP...and have witness the new laser.
Thanks.

Well, it seems you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

I was only trying to see some hard data (color point coordinates) on a LV that someone had actually attempted to calibrate. I guess this has not been posted as yet, so I have to be a bit more patient. It appears hdguru only measured the factory set color points in the "Natural" mode. So, unless I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading, we still don't know if the Mits can be adjusted to 709 using the SM.

Please let me know, without any condescension, if I'm reading the available information correctly.

Answered in post #2651 and several times since then.

Well, it seems you have a bit of a chip on your shoulder.

I was only trying to see some hard data (color point coordinates) on a LV that someone had actually attempted to calibrate. I guess this has not been posted as yet, so I have to be a bit more patient. It appears hdguru only measured the factory set color points in the "Natural" mode. So, unless I'm misunderstanding what I'm reading, we still don't know if the Mits can be adjusted to 709 using the SM.

Please let me know, without any condescension, if I'm reading the available information correctly.
BeachComber's chip apparently has the numbers of his previous holier than thou posts engraved into it. ;)

Answered in post #2651 and several times since then.

Incorrect.

Answered in post #2651 and several times since then.

Would you be so kind as to provide a concise recap, in one current post please. It would help some of us who are just starting to look into this new product.

Also, please label which parts are just speculation, and provide verifiable documentation for the rest. Thank you.:)

Would you be so kind as to provide a concise recap, in one current post please. It would help some of us who are just starting to look into this new product.

Also, please label which parts are just speculation, and provide verifiable documentation for the rest. Thank you.:)
I can tell you what he said.

He said that 1 primary color does not have the capability to meet the CIE coordinates as specified in D65.

He then used the hdguru measurements as confirmation that it was green and was 12% off from spec.
He is suggesting that green does not have the capability to move that 12%.

1 person supported his claim but seemed like they were angry that mits didnt give him a step by step instruction on how to calibrate a TV.

At this point we have no reason to disbelieve these people, however it looks like they don't have product to actually test their theories with yet.

I can tell you what he said.

He said that 1 primary color does not have the capability to meet the CIE coordinates as specified in D65.

He then used the hdguru measurements as confirmation that it was green and was 12% off from spec.
He is suggesting that green does not have the capability to move that 12%.

1 person supported his claim but seemed like they were angry that mits didnt give him a step by step instruction on how to calibrate a TV.

At this point we have no reason to disbelieve these people, however it looks like they don't have product to actually test their theories with yet.

What is he basing the claim, that green can not be calibrated that much, on?

Does he provide official documentation to back up that claim, or is he basing it on prior experience with an other Mitsu display.

It appears to me, since this laser based RGB system, is entirely different than the color wheel, or LED DLP units, and they are able to provide a much greater color gamut, they just might have a much greater color adjustment range than the older non laser units had. Now that is just speculation on my part, so I would like to know if they can or can not.

It appears to me that only someone qualified, who has actually calibrated a unit, is in a position to tell us the facts about it.

I would like to know if the "speckle" problem has been overcome.

I would also like to know if it is true 1080P, or they are still using that DLP wobulation gimmick.

Well, at least some people are getting to see this "critter" at first hand. i have a Mit. DLP unit for about 6 months. The rainbow effect is really bothersome to me. Every tourch, candle, or spotlight seems to be in triplicate and in a couple of colors. Can anyone comment on the rainbow effect with the laser units. At some point i read that this would be nil because of the way the laser works. But i have also seen (almost in passing) that the rainbow effect is still visiable. No need to comment on theories....just those that can see them in regular DLP...and have witness the new laser.
Thanks.

People vary on their sensitivity to this. From your strong sensitivity, I'm afraid DLP, bulb based anyway, is not for you...

I would like to know if the "speckle" problem has been overcome.

I would also like to know if it is true 1080P, or they are still using that DLP wobulation gimmick.

from

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

<<The LA65-A90 uses a Texas Instruments .65” Dark Chip 4 DLP (Digital Light Processor) as the microdisplay imager. As with all 1080p DLP rear projectors, the chip uses a pixel shifting technique to produce 1920 x 1080 pixel frame every 1/60 of a second.>>

sounds like wobulation to me. ppl have said wobulation is just as good. i'm not convinced.

fwiw, others in this thread have reported SSE/sparkle.

I doubt it's as good. It is however good.

...I would also like to know if it is true 1080P, or they are still using that DLP wobulation gimmick...

It's true 1080P and it uses wobulation. It either achieves the resolution or it doesn't. And it does...(Or at least other TVs using wobulation do...)

However, a good thing about wobulation was it eliminated convergence issues. And I wonder if using multiple light sources re-introduces the issue. I think some have mentioned convergence errors...

What does wobulation have to do with convergence issues? Using a 1-chip system eliminates convergence issues.

It's true 1080P and it uses wobulation. It either achieves the resolution or it doesn't. And it does...(Or at least other TVs using wobulation do...)

However, a good thing about wobulation was it eliminated convergence issues. And I wonder if using multiple light sources re-introduces the issue. I think some have mentioned convergence errors...
there is no possiblity of convergence issue on this TV.
simply a light shines on a DLP mirror and either reflected towards the screen or towards some black void.

i personally do not find anything inherently inferior to wobbaltion. It is just showing both 1/2 frames super-imposed next to each other.

I spoke to Electronics Expo in Union. The manager said he plans to move the Laservue from the display in the Paramus NJ store to the Union NJ store within a couple of days from 8/27/08

Well, at least some people are getting to see this "critter" at first hand. i have a Mit. DLP unit for about 6 months. The rainbow effect is really bothersome to me. Every tourch, candle, or spotlight seems to be in triplicate and in a couple of colors. Can anyone comment on the rainbow effect with the laser units. At some point i read that this would be nil because of the way the laser works. But i have also seen (almost in passing) that the rainbow effect is still visiable. No need to comment on theories....just those that can see them in regular DLP...and have witness the new laser.
Thanks.

Yup, seen the Laservue and as I stated in my review, RBE is there big time, more so than the bulb models.

Bill,thanks for your clear and quick response. Disappointing...i was hoping that the new technology with do away with the problem.....darn!!

Yup, seen the Laservue and as I stated in my review, RBE is there big time, more so than the bulb models.
very suprised to here about RBE. How could a thorough review like the HD Guru one miss such a thing?

Perhaps he doesn't see it. I don't.

I'll see for myself soon. The LV is coming to my area. I still have hopes for this tech. A 65" bright display using under 100 watts. I recall back in '06 Novalux said laser could be designed into a flat pannel. The LV is probably great for the first generation of laser at least.

very suprised to here about RBE. How could a thorough review like the HD Guru one miss such a thing?

Not only did HDguru not miss it, he actually claims that the LaserVue technology eliminates the Rainbow Effect:

http://hdguru.com/

Here is the the excerpt where he makes that claim. Now we have conflicting claims about the Rainbow effect. One person says he can see them, and HDguru says that they have been eliminated from the LaserVue model.

"the red, blue and green lasers each fire sequentially 28 times the frame rate (according to a Mitsubishi spokesperson), resulting in freedom from color breakup (often called rainbows), that can be seen by some viewers using conventional DLPs with projection lamps and spinning color wheels."

I had a salesman tell me people with astigmatism (glasses corrected though) like myself see it big time. Don't know if this is true or not. However my son with no astigmatism sees RBE also. I'll have to take him to see the Laservue.

I had a salesman tell me people with astigmatism (glasses corrected though) like myself see it big time. Don't know if this is true or not. However my son with no astigmatism sees RBE also. I'll have to take him to see the Laservue.

That would explain the disparity of perception.

I can tell you what he said.

He said that 1 primary color does not have the capability to meet the CIE coordinates as specified in D65.

He then used the hdguru measurements as confirmation that it was green and was 12% off from spec.
He is suggesting that green does not have the capability to move that 12%.

1 person supported his claim but seemed like they were angry that mits didnt give him a step by step instruction on how to calibrate a TV.

At this point we have no reason to disbelieve these people, however it looks like they don't have product to actually test their theories with yet.


Its nice to see that some people were paying attention, but let me remind that these were all posted PRIOR to any measurements published on the LV, as can be seen by the date and time stamps in this thread.

I also told what color the issue was for those who read the post closely and noted that a normal phrase was changed:


Again, I said they were close - but one the range on one of the primary colors (hint - its a biggie) that Mitsubishi gives you does not allow you to correct it. Doesn't matter what I say or who the other sources are, people here will dispute it until they are green in the face. Eventually all things will be confirmed and I will point back to these posts and laugh at those who were in denial.

Green makes up about 71.5% of white and is the biggie.

These results are not speculation (they couldn't be) but were confirmed with the LV in a test enviroment with a lab grade SpectroRadioMeter.

Yup, seen the Laservue and as I stated in my review, RBE is there big time, more so than the bulb models.


How do you notice the rainbow effect? Dark scenes? Was the laservue in a dark room when you viewed it?

These results are not speculation (they couldn't be) but were confirmed with the LV in a test enviroment with a lab grade SpectroRadioMeter.

But why are the results of this testing not being posted on this thread? Is it because they will be published in a trade article in the near future? If so, please give us the info so we can watch out for it.

there is no possiblity of convergence issue on this TV.
simply a light shines on a DLP mirror and either reflected towards the screen or towards some black void.

So there are no lenses in the Laservue? How do they get a fine beam spread out over the entire DLP chip, then focused appropriately on the screen?

I had a salesman tell me people with astigmatism (glasses corrected though) like myself see it big time. Don't know if this is true or not. However my son with no astigmatism sees RBE also. I'll have to take him to see the Laservue.

I have astigmatism, and do not notice any RBE with my Mitsu 65 DLP.

... Now we have conflicting claims about the Rainbow effect. One person says he can see them, and HDguru says that they have been eliminated from the LaserVue model....

It's well documented that we can convince ourselves that we are actually seeing something we expect to see. Illusionists depend on this. I'm not saying that this is true of any particular forum participants, merely that it complicates this kind of analysis.

If people see RBE, or if they think they see it, they should buy something else. The part of the population that has been sensitive to it in the past has been very small. It is likely that there will be some that still see some effect similar, or convince themselves that they do. So what? They should not own the product if it makes them uncomfortable to watch. Who cares what others say on the matter?

I was checking out the Samsung 61' DLP system a few days ago, and it had a pretty severe hotspot problem. Standing up, walking around, you really couldn't avoid seeing this bright oval hovering behind the image on the screen. If there was a p.o.v. area where the hotspot was prety much invisible, or evenly spread over the screen, it was pretty small.

Does the Laservue have a hotspot? Or is it fairly evenly illuminated?

I can tell you that I'm not 'convincing myself' that I see the rainbow effect. The first time I saw it several years ago, I wasn't trying to find it, nor had I even heard of it yet. But there it was. I was watching my brother's new DLP projector. Both my brother and I could see it. My brother's wife, however, could not see it. Kind of makes sense since my eyes and my bro's eyes are genetically very similar. I can also see the green/yellow 'flashes' on the plasma that I bought last year. Others cannot.

Anyway, its disappointing to hear that the laser tv still suffers from RBE. I was under the impression that would not be an issue with these.

I honestly don't believe RBE could be an issue with the laservue. It does not use a spinning color wheel like traditional DLP rptvs. The color wheel is what caused the RBE issue. Since the laservue does not have a color wheel and has three independant light sources, RBE should not be possible.

I honestly don't believe RBE could be an issue with the laservue. It does not use a spinning color wheel like traditional DLP rptvs. The color wheel is what caused the RBE issue. Since the laservue does not have a color wheel and has three independant light sources, RBE should not be possible.

No, it's the cycling of colors that causes RBE. Whether you use a wheel or independently switched colored light sources, the end result is the same: the colors are sequentially displayed, and combined as one by our perception. If a wheel was required for RBE, it wouldn't be present in LED sets. Yet it is. What can affect it is how fast the colors are cycled. The faster they are cycled, the less likely one is to be able to see it.

No, it's the cycling of colors that causes RBE. Whether you use a wheel or independently switched colored light sources, the end result is the same: the colors are sequentially displayed, and combined as one by our perception. If a wheel was required for RBE, it wouldn't be present in LED sets. Yet it is. What can affect it is how fast the colors are cycled. The faster they are cycled, the less likely one is to be able to see it.


http://hdguru.com/

HDguru says that they have been eliminated from the LaserVue model.

"the red, blue and green lasers each fire sequentially 28 times the frame rate (according to a Mitsubishi spokesperson), resulting in freedom from color breakup (often called rainbows), that can be seen by some viewers using conventional DLPs with projection lamps and spinning color wheels."

I have astigmatism, and do not notice any RBE with my Mitsu 65 DLP.

Well imagine that, a salesman that doesn't know what he's talking about. :D

How do you notice the rainbow effect? Dark scenes? Was the laservue in a dark room when you viewed it?

With the Laservue it seemed to be a colored line like it was out of convergence for a split second. It was a well lit room. It does seem like the lines were along dark areas. The RBE did look different.

http://hdguru.com/

HDguru says that they have been eliminated from the LaserVue model.

"the red, blue and green lasers each fire sequentially 28 times the frame rate (according to a Mitsubishi spokesperson), resulting in freedom from color breakup (often called rainbows), that can be seen by some viewers using conventional DLPs with projection lamps and spinning color wheels."

You know, it seems no matter how fast, there is probaby light coming off the mirror when it isn't fully deployed (moved). Whether ones eyes can see that split second of light might be the difference. This could be another cause.

Beachcomber, I have a question for ya. Did the person who did the calibration on the laservue you spoke of record what the high and low parameters were for the primaries in the service menu for "Natural" and also the gray adjustments. How close was he/she able to get it to .709?

Since you have someone that actually did a calibration on it and was able to get into the service menu and make changes, it would be nice to have some sort of post calibration report posted here.

I saw it just now in the electronics-expo of paramus nj... I thought it was quite a piece of work. Easily made every other set in the room look dull. The colors were bright and images seemed to jump out of the screen without being over saturated. I did not notice any smearing on fast motion scenes or color shifting. It is a gorgeous set as far as image quality and aesthetics are concerned in my opinion. I was equally surprised about how slim the set does look in person. Blacks were solid, white's seemed to have a bit of a greenish tint to it though. Hope that can be fixed up through calibration

I don't understand how they (Mitsu) could be so far off on build costs when they announced the product.

IIRC, Mitsu made strong implications that this would "aggressively priced" (or was it "affordable"?) relative to Plasma and LCD.

The pricing may reflect a small volume of initial production. Demand > supply = high price. Even though demand may be small, Mits seems to be having trouble getting the thing into production, so supply is smaller. Plus they price it high just because they can, as it is a new market segment. There are no competing lasers.

Production cost has little if anything to do with retail price. Prices are always kept a high as possible for as long as possible no matter how cheap the product is to produce.
I would be surprised if the Laserview costs significantly more then a conventional lamp driven DLP to make.

http://hdguru.com/

HDguru says that they have been eliminated from the LaserVue model.

Yes, I know. But at least one person claims to still see it with the LV. Its visibility may be reduced, but if it is, it's more due to the rate at which the colors are cycling than the fact that the light is produced from cycling lasers rather than a lamp filtered by a rotating wheel.

I just want to know what makes this worth triple the price of an LED DLP like the Samsung HL67A750.

It seems to me they share almost identical set of characteristics, but one gets a marketing bump from have a laser in it. That makes it worth triple price?

Around here almost no retailer carries any RPTV. The market seems all but dead. I am thinking about an LED DLP if I can find one as they have a good size/price ratio but I am sensitive to rainbow and apparently that isn't solved either with LED DLPs.

I don't understand how they (Mitsu) could be so far off on build costs when they announced the product.

IIRC, Mitsu made strong implications that this would "aggressively priced" (or was it "affordable"?) relative to Plasma and LCD.
so please tell us...how much do the 65" LCD and plasma cost?

Earlier I posted that my SXRD had a green haze issue and I was looking at the laservue to replace it.

A repairman came to change out the optical block (Thanks Again, Beachcomber!!) and I asked him about how much I would have paid without the CALS Settlement in place and he quoted 2k excluding labor !:eek::eek:

I also told him about the burn in and he stated that should not be an issue with the SXRD but it was in plain view for him to see. He advised that they would not replace the tv because they no longer make that model and because they have no known issues with burn in.

I asked about calibration and he advised that with newer technology, there is really no need to calibrate the set unless the OB settings are way off....

I have already replaced 2 bulbs in and now a new optical block in set that is only 2 years old....that should never happen; I will replace this set with the Laservue some time around July/August to allow for enough time to gauge the responses from actual owners and any issues that may or may not arise.

So there are no lenses in the Laservue? How do they get a fine beam spread out over the entire DLP chip, then focused appropriately on the screen?
what does light passing through a lense have to do with color seperation?

what does light passing through a lense have to do with color seperation?

Because color separation can be caused by chromatic aberration, which can happen when light passes through a lens. The different wavelengths end up with different focal lengths. It's more commonly known as an issue with cameras (and more commonly known as color fringe). But I see it to a small extent in my bulb based Mits... the light starts off at one point (the bulb), but the different colors diverge. It's not significant enough to notice from my viwing position, but it's very noticeable up close. I also noticed to an even greater extent in the Samsung sets when I was shopping... don't know if that was due to a difference in their lenses, or if they also had an issue with the three LED light sources not hitting the DLP at the exact same angle.

FYI, Crutchfield is taking Pre Orders on Mits L65A90, price $6999.99 which includes free white glove delivery.

Gonna wait for 80% off coupon..
:)

FYI, Crutchfield is taking Pre Orders on Mits L65A90, price $6999.99 which includes free white glove delivery.

FYI, Crutchfield is taking Pre Orders on Mits L65A90, price $6999.99 which includes free white glove delivery.


Well, Any takers for this great value? Mitsubishi is having a Brain Fart with this price.

I'll be getting a set sometime mid-next year. Maybe the LV price will be below $4k by then...:cool:

In the meantime, Circuit City has the Mitsubishi 73" DLP on sale for an incredible price. Sale ends Saturday, Nov 3rd at midnight. For the price of the 65" laser TV, you could buy 3 of these and still have money left for a wild weekend in Vegas.

IB

In the meantime, Circuit City has the Mitsubishi 73" DLP on sale for an incredible price. Sale ends Saturday, Nov 3rd at midnight. For the price of the 65" laser TV, you could buy 3 of these and still have money left for a wild weekend in Vegas.

IB

Is CC going to be a Mits dealer next year? They are NOT listed on Mits site as authorized dealers either Diamond or otherwise! BTW Amazon has the SAME unit that CC has for about $80 LESS. Does that unit have the DarkChip4? (WD73-735/6)

Classico

Yes, all this years models use the DC4 chip, the 735/736/835.

BTW Amazon has the SAME unit that CC has for about $80 LESS. (WD73-735/6)

Classico

Circuit City has free shipping.

IB

Best Buy price matched the CC website 73735 price for me no problem. My local store had them in stock though not out on the shelf.

Sale ends Saturday, Nov 3rd at midnight.
Of what year? There isn't a Saturday, Nov 3rd this year anyway. :D

You are correct Sir. It is Nov. 1st at midnight the sale ends.

IB

http://www.hdtvmagazine.com/news/2008/10/mitsubishi_digital_electronics_america_inc_announces_retail_ availability_of_worlds_first_laser-based_television.php

If you look below the article, one commenter says he has seen the laser TV.

"Being an RPTV owner and wanting to maybe go to a 3D capable set, I rushed out to have a short viewing of one of these sets at the local Ken Crane's. It has a great crisp image, strong colors and just terrible speckling."

IB

I didn't know what laser speckling was or the cause. I found this link which helps to explain both: http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=213405

It may be that the disruption of the coherence of the beam is caused by the lenses in the system or the surface of the DLP chip itself. Has anyone else noticed the speckling problem?

Saw the Laserview at a local retailer today. They also had the 73" Diamond DLP just a few feet away. They were both displaying the same HD feed. While the Laserview had crisp colors and looked very nice, I didn't think it was worth twice the price of the 73" Diamond model. I might have been interested at $4500, but not $7000. I'm going back tonight to buy the 73835.

Edit: Didn't notice the aforementioned "speckling" but I wasn't looking for it either. When I go back tonight to purchase the 73835 I'll take another look.

I checked out the Laservue again last night. I still didn't see any "speckling", but then again I wasn't really sure what I was looking for. The feed they were using was ESPNHD from our local cable TV provider and it was artifacting like crazy during fast motion so that may have hindered my ability to discern any anomalies created by the display rather than the source.

My 73835 gets delivered this afternoon. Whoo hoo! Can anyone recommend a good calibrator in the Central California region?

I checked out the Laservue again last night. I still didn't see any "speckling", but then again I wasn't really sure what I was looking for....

Seems to me if it didn't jump out at you there isn't much of a problem . Makes you wonder what Inky's commentator was seeing when he saw "terrible speckling".

Best Buy price matched the CC website 73735 price for me no problem. My local store had them in stock though not out on the shelf.

Considering the state of Circut City's financial condition, everything pricewise being equal or close to it, buy from BB.

Considering the state of Circut City's financial condition, everything pricewise being equal or close to it, buy from BB.

Actually, that could work to your advantage. There is no downside to buying from CC if you can cut a better deal.

Also, fwiw, I was playing around on the Mitsubishi website and noticed that even if you put in a San Antonio, Calif, NY or NJ Zip Code, they apparently list no dealers in America with the LaserVue yet.

Nice job!

I really feel sorry for retailers, as it is clearly a BUYERS market these days. I just bought a very high quality 52" LCD TV, a 22" LCD computer monitor with 10000:1 contrast ratio, and a commercial grade steel computer cart, all for about 2k total, and it is not even Black Friday yet. I plan to buy a 16GB USB flash drive on Black Friday and expect to pay peanuts for it.

I say spend now and help the economy!

IB

I checked out the Laservue again last night. I still didn't see any "speckling", but then again I wasn't really sure what I was looking for. The feed they were using was ESPNHD from our local cable TV provider and it was artifacting like crazy during fast motion so that may have hindered my ability to discern any anomalies created by the display rather than the source.

My 73835 gets delivered this afternoon. Whoo hoo! Can anyone recommend a good calibrator in the Central California region?
I am also ordering a 73835 this week. Laservu much too high in price for me.

Has anyone used DependableAudioVideo.com? They are advertising set for $2750 delivered.

Also saw set at DiditalCraze.com for $3050 Appreciate any guidance or suggestions you may have. Thanks.

I purchased my set from a local retailer because I was too nervous buying something this pricey and large from an online retailer. I know i didn't get the greatest deal out there, but I did get peace of mind. That's worth a lot to me.

I purchased my set from a local retailer because I was too nervous buying something this pricey and large from an online retailer. I know i didn't get the greatest deal out there, but I did get peace of mind. That's worth a lot to me.

In today's economy, its possible to negotiate with retailers even more than ever. EVERYONE should at least try it before purchasing over the internet.

I am also ordering a 73835 this week. Laservu much too high in price for me.

Has anyone used DependableAudioVideo.com? They are advertising set for $2750 delivered.

Also saw set at DiditalCraze.com for $3050 Appreciate any guidance or suggestions you may have. Thanks.
Check out resellerratings.com. These guys rate the on-line retailers and even go so far as to weed out the self reviewers.

Can anyone tell me where I can find a Laservue in California?? I cannot find one anywhere. I would like to actually see it before I buy it online.

Can anyone tell me where I can find a Laservue in California?? I cannot find one anywhere. I would like to actually see it before I buy it online.

Ken Cranes and Paul's TV.

Can anyone tell me where I can find a Laservue in California?? I cannot find one anywhere. I would like to actually see it before I buy it online.

Urner's in Bakersfield.

Any leads on a retailer for the laservue in South Carolina?

I didn't even know S. Carolina had HD yet.

I didn't even know S. Carolina had HD yet.
Haha. :p

I am waiting for someone to buy one and start an owner's thread....would love to see a calibration report too! I can't believe no one on here bought one yet.

I am waiting for someone to buy one and start an owner's thread....would love to see a calibration report too! I can't believe no one on here bought one yet.

While I realize that reading 95 pages is a pain, I'm not surprised. Only a well heeled and uninformed consumer would pay $7000 for this set. Especially with the warranty Mits is offering.

While I'm sure they'll sell some sets, they are out of their mind introducing a RPTV, at this price, that doesn't walk on water at this point in time. Don't get me wrong, I like the picture. The value and form factor simply aren't there. If they can't make any margin at a price under $5000, this set will die a quick death in the market place. But, as a number of others have said, the technology may really be more applicable to FP.

I didn't read all 95 pages of this post, so maybe this link was already in there, but I found the link below as the only "comparison" I have seen so far. It has some nice quality photos comparing the Laservue to a Kuro, and some balanced and fairly written (IMO) opinions. Certainly worth a look :

http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/585/Mitsubishi-LaserVue-65-HDTV-We-Meet-Again/

I didn't read all 95 pages of this post,

By definition a post can not be multiple pages.

@Stew4msu: The definition of "post" does not actually define a "page" limit or length of any type. In computer "parlance" it would generally mean; "make (information) available on the Internet", and also may most closely mean; "put notices on or in". While I admit the error in my "post", to the 95 pages of this "thread", your style of correcting my contribution lacks "tact" (adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others) and seems rather "petty" (of little importance). I will endeavor to make my future "posts" more error free, as I am sure all 3,516 of yours have been. :D

I didn't read all 95 pages of this post, so maybe this link was already in there, but I found the link below as the only "comparison" I have seen so far. It has some nice quality photos comparing the Laservue to a Kuro, and some balanced and fairly written (IMO) opinions. Certainly worth a look :

http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/585/Mitsubishi-LaserVue-65-HDTV-We-Meet-Again/That link was beaten to death many pages ago. Those photos are not quality. There is some thread that shows a user picture with the same shot of the person in the red dress on the 111 and it will blow your mind. These photos are too cool, too exposed, and plain out look horrible on both sets.

@Stew4msu: The definition of "post" does not actually define a "page" limit or length of any type. In computer "parlance" it would generally mean; "make (information) available on the Internet", and also may most closely mean; "put notices on or in". While I admit the error in my "post", to the 95 pages of this "thread", your style of correcting my contribution lacks "tact" (adroitness and sensitivity in dealing with others) and seems rather "petty" (of little importance). I will endeavor to make my future "posts" more error free, as I am sure all 3,516 of yours have been. :D

Additionally, the number of pages is dependent upon user configurations, so your statement that there's 95 pages is also incorrect. In my case, there's only 48 pages.

Better?

your statement that there's 95 pages is also incorrect. In my case, there's only 48 pages.

It is not incorrect. Nor is your statement that there are 48 pages in your case. Both are relative to your individual settings. Both are correct. Stew4msu, you may want to look into the definition of narcissistic while you are looking up "petty". Your arrogance towards a simple, and in no way negative or confrontational contribution reflects poorly on an otherwise friendly and very helpful site. Truly unfortunate.

Relax, dude.

I am waiting for someone to buy one and start an owner's thread....would love to see a calibration report too! I can't believe no one on here bought one yet.

There was one poster who raved about the set, claimed to be a professional in the Industry and stated he was going to purchase the unit the next day.

10/07/2008
and i have done a great deal of work and unless the moderators forbid such, i intend to share that work on this thread.


10/10/2008
i've decided to buy one of these tvs tomorrow. I prefer to have the 73" since it fits flush on my custom cabinet, but i am anxious to explore the many aspects of this new tech first hand.



10/10/2008
in a day or two, i intend to do a technical piece of viewing distances for tvs of this sort.

Of course they disappeared.

I noted as such but was berated that we have no right to expect anything from anyone here, so I have adjusted my contributions to this thread accordingly as well, even if I have more info that what I might post. I suspect others might be in the same position.

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L65A90

Then click on "Product Specs", then click on "Detailed Specs". 5 PDF's there to download.

I noted as such but was berated that we have no right to expect anything from anyone here, so I have adjusted my contributions to this thread accordingly as well, even if I have more info that what I might post. I suspect others might be in the same position.

I was just trying to encourage whoever bought one to share his or her experience and maybe get some calibration reports from respected AVS calibrators. I can't find the tv in my area but then again I haven't looked very hard.

So have many people purchased this set yet?

My guess is their sales figures are in the single digits.

Current economic news:
1)WalMart is the only retailer posting an increase in sales
2)Circuit City Closing 155 stores
3)Tweeter Files For Bankruptcy Again/ Closing stores
4)On the nightly news, a report that even people with high incomes are curtailing spending.

What does that all equal??= Sales of a first generation laser dlp are not going to be very good at 7K. If MITS wants this set/technology to last, they better get right with the economic reality of TODAY! And soon:rolleyes:

No more hopes for the LV in south Florida. Tweeter is history and Magnolia says no plans to have it for at least 2 months.

My guess is their sales figures are in the single digits.

Does it surprise you? If one puts in a zip code on the website, it still shows no LVs at any dealer anywhere within the USA - including 300 miles of San Antonio, Los Angeles, Bakersfield, NYC etc. Very few people would even know they were in a store - and that is WITH all the other issues that could discourage sales!

Current economic news:
1)WalMart is the only retailer posting an increase in sales
2)Circuit City Closing 155 stores
3)Tweeter Files For Bankruptcy Again/ Closing stores
4)On the nightly news, a report that even people with high incomes are curtailing spending.

What does that all equal??= Sales of a first generation laser dlp are not going to be very good at 7K. If MITS wants this set/technology to last, they better get right with the economic reality of TODAY! And soon:rolleyes:

I agree,

I can see maybe $3500. I paid around $3500 for my Mits 52628 back in Nov of 05 and now i see Mits selling a 60" for around $1500.

There was one poster who raved about the set, claimed to be a professional in the Industry and stated he was going to purchase the unit the next day.

10/07/2008



10/10/2008



10/10/2008


Of course they disappeared.

I noted as such but was berated that we have no right to expect anything from anyone here, so I have adjusted my contributions to this thread accordingly as well, even if I have more info that what I might post. I suspect others might be in the same position.

I don't work for anyone here. Therefore I don't owe you a post on any topic at all.

I don't work for anyone here. Therefore I don't owe you a post on any topic at all.C'mon man, give us some user impressions ;):D

C'mon man, give us some user impressions ;):D

Considering the crap he's taken from BC, I can't say I blame him.

Seggers

I don't work for anyone here. Therefore I don't owe you a post on any topic at all.

Yes, but as noted, you stated you were going to do it in several posts and didn't - deciding not to post for a month (and still not posting what you stated you were going to post).

That speaks volumes - both about you and your former statements.

Of course, in this case, Occam's Razor prevails - the simplest explanation is most likely correct.

The other poster who you were going out of your way to "correct" was indeed correct.

Considering the crap he's taken from BC, I can't say I blame him.

Seggers

Perhaps you can post links to 4 or 5 (or even several) posts where I directly gave him crap before he disappeared....

On the other hand, I can post dozens where I have given it to you for incorrect statements, just like the one you posted directly above.

Yes, but as noted, you stated you were going to do it in several posts and didn't - deciding not to post for a month (and still not posting what you stated you were going to post).

That speaks volumes - both about you and your former statements.

Of course, in this case, Occam's Razor prevails - the simplest explanation is most likely correct.

The other poster who you were going out of your way to "correct" was indeed correct.



Perhaps you can post links to 4 or 5 (or even several) posts where I directly gave him crap before he disappeared....

On the other hand, I can post dozens where I have given it to you for incorrect statements, just like the one you posted directly above.

LOL, I think this is one of the witty-est (is that a word?) posts I've read so far on AVS Forum. You remind me of the Sith Darth Maul in Episode 1 with the dual lightsabre, chopping off two heads at the same time with one swift stroke.

I saw my first LaserVue up close at Toton's TV in Crest Hill, IL.

The colors were fantastic.... my wife was impressed and she is not easily impressed with TV's or any electronic equipment for that matter.

MSRP $7999, price listed in paper $6999.00, and if you go to the store and ask for the price.... $5999.00.

My name is on the list for the 73" which comes out Jan-Feb '09'.

hmmm, see the first included quote. That make's my point for me quite nicely.

Considering your condescending manner and attitude towards posters on this thread, i'm surprised anyone bothers to give any credibility to what you post.

Damn, and i wasn't going to rise to your usual bs.... :mad:

Seggers

+1

I saw my first LaserVue up close at Toton's TV in Crest Hill, IL.

The colors were fantastic.... my wife was impressed and she is not easily impressed with TV's or any electronic equipment for that matter.

MSRP $7999, price listed in paper $6999.00, and if you go to the store and ask for the price.... $5999.00.

My name is on the list for the 73" which comes out Jan-Feb '09'.

There are Laservues at Ken Cranes in LA and Pauls in La Habra near LA. I haven't had the chance to scope them out.

Did you ask the dealer what the real world price of the 73" would be?

I'm just concerned about safety vis a vis the eyes. When I spoke with Mits they were a bit cagey on the subject. I was told the screen diffuses the intensity of the laser, but if you download the spec sheet/manual from Mits they talk about the class 1 and class 4 lasers used, and say that there should be no risk. I forget the exact language, but it reminded me of all the cheerful warnings about side effects from prescription medications.

Anybody know more about this?

Thanks

I'm just concerned about safety vis a vis the eyes. When I spoke with Mits they were a bit cagey on the subject. I was told the screen diffuses the intensity of the laser, but if you download the spec sheet/manual from Mits they talk about the class 1 and class 4 lasers used, and say that there should be no risk. I forget the exact language, but it reminded me of all the cheerful warnings about side effects from prescription medications.

Anybody know more about this?

Thanks

The TV is a class 1 laser product. Which means there is no safey issue when using the product.

See this link for details about laser classifications:
http://web.princeton.edu/sites/ehs/laserguide/sec3.htm

"Class 1 laser cannot, under normal operating conditions, produce damaging radiation levels. These lasers must be labeled, but are exempt from the requirements of the Laser Safety Program. A laser printer is an example of a Class 1 laser."

Thanks for your response.


If you download the Operating Guide from Mits, you'll see that although it is described as a Class 1 Laser device that it also contains a Class 4 Laser. (Page 4 of OG)

There's also a warning that if the screen or cabinet is damaged that the TV should not be operated. Also there is a phrase that under normal operating conditions there should be no risk to users.

I'd still like to know more. The only risk to a standard DLP is getting into a fight with someone when buying a replacement bulb.

Doesn't mean I'm not interested in Laservue...just cautious.

Its the same thing as a laser printer. You aren't worried about using laser printers are you?
The higher power laser is enclosed inside the TV. Thus safe and freindly to use.

If there is a screen breach while watching porn on your laservue you could end up like Sean Connery in "Goldfinger":eek: The beam will vaporize your short hairs!

Thanks for your response.


If you download the Operating Guide from Mits, you'll see that although it is described as a Class 1 Laser device that it also contains a Class 4 Laser. (Page 4 of OG)

There's also a warning that if the screen or cabinet is damaged that the TV should not be operated. Also there is a phrase that under normal operating conditions there should be no risk to users.

I'd still like to know more. The only risk to a standard DLP is getting into a fight with someone when buying a replacement bulb.

Doesn't mean I'm not interested in Laservue...just cautious.


It's the same as anything else. If operated properly there is no danger. You can be in just as much danger with a DLP if you defeat the safety features. Those bulbs are not exactly safe to stare into unprotected with the lamp cover off :eek: (and they get quite hot).

Anyone seen a Laservue in the DFW area?

The thing with the bulb is that it's brightness will cause you to look away reflexively. Not so with lasers and certain LEDs.

Anyone seen a Laservue in the DFW area?

You could try the Home Theater Store (I think they're called Modia now), they're supposedly a preferred Mits dealer.

You could try the Home Theater Store (I think they're called Modia now), they're supposedly a preferred Mits dealer.

FWIW, Star Power (Belt Line & Toll Road) does not carry it. I was there about 2 weeks ago and asked them.

Well, after waiting what seems to me a very long time, I saw the Laservue here in Sacramento at our local RC Wiley. Let me say, I have enjoyed reading all the post on this Thread. My previous TV was a professionally ISF calibrated (thank you Chuck Williams) last generation Pioneer Elite 64" CRT RPTV . It was a great TV.

I recently purchased the Samsung 67" LED DLP A750 and had Chuck work his magic on my new TV. I love the Sammy, which by the way I paid $1799.00 on a price match/beat between Fry's and Best Buy...with BB getting my business. The Sammy does all things better then my Pioneer Elite CRT except of course the famous CRT black levels. But having said that, the black levels on my Sammy 750 are very, very, good. Black level detail in fact is better on the Sammy then the Pioneer Elite.

Back to RC Wiley and the Laservue which looked good, but not "blew me away" good, and definately not $7000.00 worth of good. It was being fed a Blu Ray disc from a Samsung Blu Ray player. I was deeply concerned about the serious problem of clearly seeing white speckles within all of the black, dark scenes. I am planning to go back on Tuesday and adjust the Laservue with the settings that have been posted on this Thread, bring some of my favorite Blu Ray DVD's, and give the Laservue a chance to impress me.

Id be happy to look for things that you would like for me to look for.

As they say in TV news...Film at 11..on Tuesday.

Well, after waiting what seems to me a very long time, I saw the Laservue here in Sacramento at our local RC Wiley. Let me say, I have enjoyed reading all the post on this Thread. My previous TV was a professionally ISF calibrated (thank you Chuck Williams) last generation Pioneer Elite 64" CRT RPTV . It was a great TV.

I recently purchased the Samsung 67" LED DLP A750 and had Chuck work his magic on my new TV. I love the Sammy, which by the way I paid $1799.00 on a price match/beat between Fry's and Best Buy...with BB getting my business. The Sammy does all things better then my Pioneer Elite CRT except of course the famous CRT black levels. But having said that, the black levels on my Sammy 750 are very, very, good. Black level detail in fact is better on the Sammy then the Pioneer Elite.

Back to RC Wiley and the Laservue which looked good, but not "blew me away" good, and definately not $7000.00 worth of good. It was being fed a Blu Ray disc from a Samsung Blu Ray player. I was deeply concerned about the serious problem of clearly seeing white speckles within all of the black, dark scenes. I am planning to go back on Tuesday and adjust the Laservue with the settings that have been posted on this Thread, bring some of my favorite Blu Ray DVD's, and give the Laservue a chance to impress me.

Id be happy to look for things that you would like for me to look for.

As they say in TV news...Film at 11..on Tuesday.

I'd be curious about how you think the picture compares to the Diamond bulb illuminated DLPs. I'm still thinking about the 73835.

Thanks

non productive posts removed

Has anyone sighted a LaserVue in South Central Wisconsin? I would like to see one for myself. Perhaps basking in it's rays would help distract me from this morning's bone chilling 24 degrees (last week it was an unseasonably warm 72). ;)

I see LaserVue just made #82 on a list of Hot Holiday Gift Guide Tips!
http://www.i4u.com/article21484.html



Spence

Current economic news:
1)WalMart is the only retailer posting an increase in sales
2)Circuit City Closing 155 stores
3)Tweeter Files For Bankruptcy Again/ Closing stores
4)On the nightly news, a report that even people with high incomes are curtailing spending.

What does that all equal??= Sales of a first generation laser dlp are not going to be very good at 7K. If MITS wants this set/technology to last, they better get right with the economic reality of TODAY! And soon:rolleyes:

A correction as of Monday morning. The #2 electronics store chain, Circuit City has filed for bankrupty.
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/circuit-city-files-for-bankruptcy/242760

I didn't even know S. Carolina had HD yet.

Haha. :p

I am trying to get HD accepted in this area. Its been an up hill battle for sure.

For anyone in the DFW area, Modia in Dallas say they have Laservues on display and for sale.

Well, after waiting what seems to me a very long time, I saw the Laservue here in Sacramento at our local RC Wiley. Let me say, I have enjoyed reading all the post on this Thread. My previous TV was a professionally ISF calibrated (thank you Chuck Williams) last generation Pioneer Elite 64" CRT RPTV . It was a great TV.

I recently purchased the Samsung 67" LED DLP A750 and had Chuck work his magic on my new TV. I love the Sammy, which by the way I paid $1799.00 on a price match/beat between Fry's and Best Buy...with BB getting my business. The Sammy does all things better then my Pioneer Elite CRT except of course the famous CRT black levels. But having said that, the black levels on my Sammy 750 are very, very, good. Black level detail in fact is better on the Sammy then the Pioneer Elite.

Back to RC Wiley and the Laservue which looked good, but not "blew me away" good, and definately not $7000.00 worth of good. It was being fed a Blu Ray disc from a Samsung Blu Ray player. I was deeply concerned about the serious problem of clearly seeing white speckles within all of the black, dark scenes. I am planning to go back on Tuesday and adjust the Laservue with the settings that have been posted on this Thread, bring some of my favorite Blu Ray DVD's, and give the Laservue a chance to impress me.

Id be happy to look for things that you would like for me to look for.

As they say in TV news...Film at 11..on Tuesday.

Dang Rrollens, I didn't even think of calling RC Wiley to see if they would have one. I called all of the other major businesses I thought would carry them. I drove to Anderson's HDTV in Redwood City to view and purchased the last one they had in stock. Anderson's received 6 on Thursday, with 4 pre-sold and the 5 selling Thursday evening. I bought the last one from their warehouse on Friday eveing.

Can you link the adjustments, in this thread, you were talking about. I cannot seem to find them, and I would like to see what sort of difference they might make.

The speckling effect is weird, in that, on solid blues and reds it is very noticable. However, your eyes seem to adjust for it while watching a movie or playing a game. I have not tried a Blue-Ray movie yet, I will be purchasing a Blue-Ray drive for my PC tonight.

In case anyone cares, I will be using the TV as my primary computer monitor for games, as my 36", 10-year-old CRT just broke last week. I am still not sure it is worth the $7700 (tax and shipping included), but it seems like the best investment at this time. I want another 10 years or more out of this TV and it will be on 365 days a year for about 6-10 hours a day. Also, 3D gaming and possibly Dual-View interests me.

The speckling effect is weird, in that, on solid blues and reds it is very noticable. However, your eyes seem to adjust for it while watching a movie or playing a game. I have not tried a Blue-Ray movie yet, I will be purchasing a Blue-Ray drive for my PC tonight.
Having BTDT, I would strongly recommend you save yourself lots of wasted time and get a standalone Bluray player instead of a drive for your PC. The software player options just aren't there yet IMHO. I've got the LG combo drive in my HTPC and have Arcsoft TMT and PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra installed along with AnyDVD HD. Both options have issues. I'm waiting until the new Oppo BDP-83 comes out and will then no longer use my HTPC for Bluray playback unless the software options improve significantly.

Dang Rrollens, I didn't even think of calling RC Wiley to see if they would have one. I called all of the other major businesses I thought would carry them. I drove to Anderson's HDTV in Redwood City to view and purchased the last one they had in stock. Anderson's received 6 on Thursday, with 4 pre-sold and the 5 selling Thursday evening. I bought the last one from their warehouse on Friday eveing.

Can you link the adjustments, in this thread, you were talking about. I cannot seem to find them, and I would like to see what sort of difference they might make.

The speckling effect is weird, in that, on solid blues and reds it is very noticable. However, your eyes seem to adjust for it while watching a movie or playing a game. I have not tried a Blue-Ray movie yet, I will be purchasing a Blue-Ray drive for my PC tonight.

In case anyone cares, I will be using the TV as my primary computer monitor for games, as my 36", 10-year-old CRT just broke last week. I am still not sure it is worth the $7700 (tax and shipping included), but it seems like the best investment at this time. I want another 10 years or more out of this TV and it will be on 365 days a year for about 6-10 hours a day. Also, 3D gaming and possibly Dual-View interests me.


The Settings I saw on this Thread were:

Natural

Low Color Temp

contrast/brightness/color reduced to the mid point

Would highly recommend you contact Chuck Williams in San Francisco who is a great ISF Calibrator. He will ensure that you get the very best picture possible out of your new LaserVue. He can be reached at 202-716-1900 or cmwtk@aol.com. Good luck!

Having BTDT, I would strongly recommend you save yourself lots of wasted time and get a standalone Bluray player instead of a drive for your PC. The software player options just aren't there yet IMHO. I've got the LG combo drive in my HTPC and have Arcsoft TMT and PowerDVD 7.3 Ultra installed along with AnyDVD HD. Both options have issues. I'm waiting until the new Oppo BDP-83 comes out and will then no longer use my HTPC for Bluray playback unless the software options improve significantly.

I agree and disagree. I have had a very positive experience with Cyberlink Power DVD Ultra and version 8 especially. I don't typically buy the newest releases when they hit the stores. I am mostly a renter, but I have using PowerDVD 7/8 Ultra and upgraded the software regularly and have watched lots of BD with virtually no problems. HTPCs in general though are something of a pain in the but and you will be constantly udpating Vista, drivers, and Cyberlink. Each of these updates gives you a queasy feeling as you wonder what will happen if one of these upgrades goes south. Currently I am dialing in a Mits 73735 and I am using my PS3 to test with rather than mess with the HTPC.

The latest version 8 decoder makes some pretty clean video. I recently reset the default codec for VMC to the latest Cyberlink BD mpeg decoder and was very pleasantly surprised how much improved it was decoding ATSC stuff compared to the Cyberlink decoder from just a few months ago.

I agree and disagree. I have had a very positive experience with Cyberlink Power DVD Ultra and version 8 especially. I don't typically buy the newest releases when they hit the stores. I am mostly a renter, but I have using PowerDVD 7/8 Ultra and upgraded the software regularly and have watched lots of BD with virtually no problems. HTPCs in general though are something of a pain in the but and you will be constantly udpating Vista, drivers, and Cyberlink. Each of these updates gives you a queasy feeling as you wonder what will happen if one of these upgrades goes south. Currently I am dialing in a Mits 73735 and I am using my PS3 to test with rather than mess with the HTPC.
Yes, it sort of kind of works, but it's a constant struggle when trying to watch new releases. Constant updates are needed for AnyDVD HD, Arcsoft, PowerDVD, video card drivers, etc. There's also the issue of how the lossless audio formats get handled as the HDMI audio situation really hasn't been fully sorted out on the PC side. This leaves me stuck with decoding on the PC side and sending 7.1 analog audio to my surround sound processor (Denon AVP-A1HDCI) which I'm pretty sure would do a slightly better job handling the audio decoding. There are all sorts of issues getting the video side right too (witness the numerous threads in the HTPC forums for both ATI and nVidia and for the Arcsoft and Cyberlink players).

Compare all this to using TheaterTek to watch DVD's. TheaterTek just plain works, offers a TCP/IP control interface that integrates very nicely with my Crestron control system, has a very nice 10' UI, etc. If TheaterTek had support for Bluray (and I more than understand why they don't - the licensing is a huge $$$ issue for them), I'd have no problem recommending PC use for Bluray playback.

As things stand right now and for the near future, I really wouldn't wish this on my worst enemy. I'm not some technophobe who's afraid to handle the updates and such - my day job is software development. I just feel that Bluray playback can be and should be a lot easier on the PC than it is.

I'm sure the situation will improve over time - as I recall DVD playback was pretty painful for a while too.

The speckling effect is weird, in that, on solid blues and reds it is very noticeable.

I am still not sure it is worth the $7700 (tax and shipping included), but it seems like the best investment at this time.

:eek::eek: :eek: I would not buy a product with such a defect at any price. I have a far cheaper 52" LG70 LCD flat panel TV and I am 100% happy with the picture. I can see no defects, pixels, or shortcomings at all. Why pay so much for a TV that has white speckles on solid colors? I would wait for laser technology to develop before I made such a purchase. I think lasers ARE the future for front projection home theaters and commercial theaters, as well as for very large rear projection TVs, but such first generation defects would stop me from buying now. You must really be loaded with cash and in a very high tax bracket indeed!

IB

I am trying to get HD accepted in this area. Its been an up hill battle for sure.
Satellite? :confused:

You must really be loaded with cash and in a very high tax bracket indeed!


Surely you can’t be serious, :confused: to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash.

I agree with you about the Laserview and its problems, as far as I can see it has no reason to live. The Panasonic 65” and Pioneer 60” seem like far better options.

Surely you can’t be serious, :confused: to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash.

I agree with you about the Laserview and its problems, as far as I can see it has no reason to live. The Panasonic 65” and Pioneer 60” seem like far better options.

I could understand the pricing of the Laservue if it were a 75" or larger class display and it really had PQ on par with the best displays in the world. The price point in the 60" class just seems bizarre, especially based on the mixed feeback so far.

Surely you can’t be serious, :confused: to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash.

I don't know what the economic climate down in Australia is like, but here in the United States of America we are tightening our belts a bit. What is, or is not considered 'a lot of cash' is relative to your economic climate and the tax bracket that a given person is in.

Thanks to predatory lending practices, deregulation dating back to the Carter administration and 'enhanced' by the Clinton administration, we are living in 'ground zero' of a world-wide economic crisis. My family is far better off than many here in the US, but by know means are we a family that would consider $7,000 to not be 'a lot of cash'.

While there are many who are financially suited to purchase a $7K television, most of us living in the 'real world' see that price point as unrealistically high and above what most of us would pay for a luxury item, and while it may be a very nice television, it is still just that... a television. $7,000 would pay off half of a 'new' entry level vehicle, or mostly all of a used vehicle. Also considering our rising rate of unemployment, many of the working class are holding back on big ticket luxury items at this time.

For me, while I would love one, I have resolved to never again purchase a first generation product, particularly a product where the selling price will eventually fall by one third or better over the next two years. I consider myself an 'enthusiast' and nowhere near the level of many other 'videophiles' on this forum. I would hazard a guess that there are many more 'enthusiasts' such as myself, for which having a modest Home Theater (in many cases a multi-purpose Home Theater/Family Room area) is their primary 'big' hobby.

My rear projection 'CRT' (Mitsubishi WS-65907) has incredible blacks, no rainbows or SDE to speak of. It has served me well in the eight-plus years that I have owned it. Were it not for HDMI and an on-board ATSC tuner... and wanting to move up to a 73" display, I would not be considering an upgrade. As it stands now, I'm holding off until the next generation (or two) of LaserVues are released, the prices come down, and the economy stabilizes.

Regards,
Spence

Thanks to predatory lending practices, deregulation dating back to the Carter administration and 'enhanced' by the Clinton administration, we are living in 'ground zero' of a world-wide economic crisis. My family is far better off than many here in the US, but by know means are we a family that would consider $7,000 to not be 'a lot of cash'.
Individuals are also at fault for taking on debt that they can't handle. And let's not excuse the current set of people in DC (both parties are to blame).

Political commentary which really doesn't belong here aside, I would agree that $7000 would be considered a lot of cash to the vast majority of people. I obviously have no idea how much Owen makes in a year, but a $7000 purchase certainly isn't something I take lightly (and I feel I make a pretty good income, especially for someone without a family to support) - it's most definitely a major purchase in my book.

Individuals are also at fault for taking on debt that they can't handle. And let's not excuse the current set of people in DC (both parties are to blame).

Political commentary which really doesn't belong here aside, I would agree that $7000 would be considered a lot of cash to the vast majority of people. I obviously have no idea how much Owen makes in a year, but a $7000 purchase certainly isn't something I take lightly (and I feel I make a pretty good income, especially for someone without a family to support) - it's most definitely a major purchase in my book.

I agree on all of your points, and did not want to make the thread about anything political so much as pointing out the many 'differing' financial perspectives that must be considered when stating that "$7K is not a lot of cash". In addition (and I believe this has been pointed out, but I thought I would restate), Mitsubishi is missing the mark on it's release of the LaserVue.

At $7K, it is priced to compete with upper tier 'premium quality' displays, however nearly everything that I have read indicates that while the colors and brightness are spectacular, the LaserVue falls short on quality due to the reported issue with speckle artifacts. At that price point, videophiles would be more inclined to go with something closer to that of a display free from artifacts. If the price were substantially lower, many would overlook the displays shortcomings. Mitsubishi either needs to work out the bugs and make the LaserVue which warrants the cost of a premium display, or lower the price.

Again, I have not laid eyes on a LaserVue, but am relying on the judgement of many others, who are most likely far more qualified than I to evaluate the picture quality.

Time to make my weekly call to the local Mitsubishi Diamond Authorized reseller. Perhaps I'll see one with my own eyes this month. ;)

Cheers,
Spence

You also need to realize that many popular electronics sell for ~twice as much in Australia than the US, ie PS3 launched near $1000 in OZ. So hearing $7000 when you are already use to hearing a higher quote on electronics can and will effect your "That's too much" reaction. I am not familiar with televisions in Australia though.

You also need to realize that many popular electronics sell for ~twice as much in Australia than the US, ie PS3 launched near $1000 in OZ. So hearing $7000 when you are already use to hearing a higher quote on electronics can and will effect your "That's too much" reaction.
I do realize that. $7000 STILL isn't a trivial purchase.

Surely you can’t be serious, :confused: to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash...

I don't think that you are factoring in that someones income level is dependent upon where they live. I do know that if I lived in a more prominent area in the US like Atlanta, NY, or CA that I would be making double what I am now(I realize something like a house and rent are higher though).

But for retail type items the price is typically the same across the board in the US while salaries vary daramatically depending on your local. So for example, a $7000 TV for someone who lives in CA making $100k/yr is obviously easier to stomach that it is for the guy in the midwest who has the exact same job as the guy in CA but is only making $50k.

a $7000 TV for someone who lives in CA making $100k per year obviously doesn't look as expensive as it does to someone who lives in the midwest making $50k.

DING! :D

>$70K <$80K - Wisconsin

$7,000 television = Spence in divorce court ;)

Surely you can’t be serious, :confused: to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash.

$7k is a lot of cash to me to be spending on a TV. Is my salary really THAT bad? :confused:

Surely you can’t be serious, :confused: to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash.

I agree with you about the Laserview and its problems, as far as I can see it has no reason to live. The Panasonic 65” and Pioneer 60” seem like far better options.

As is the 67" Sammy LED DLP for about 25% of the cost.

They mentioned thinner and more energy efficient..........but did they mention anything about weight reduction??? (at least when compared to RPTV units of the same size class)

In case anyone cares, I will be using the TV as my primary computer monitor for games, as my 36", 10-year-old CRT just broke last week. I am still not sure it is worth the $7700 (tax and shipping included), but it seems like the best investment at this time. I want another 10 years or more out of this TV and it will be on 365 days a year for about 6-10 hours a day. Also, 3D gaming and possibly Dual-View interests me.
Congradulations on your purchase.

I do have to inquire how someone does 10hours of gaming a day and have $7k to buy a monitor?

Are you running that with the HD4850? I have dual HD4870 X2 but only use a 22: :(
Guess im just jealous...

I don't know what the economic climate down in Australia is like, but here in the United States of America we are tightening our belts a bit. What is, or is not considered 'a lot of cash' is relative to your economic climate and the tax bracket that a given person is in.

Thanks to predatory lending practices, deregulation dating back to the Carter administration and 'enhanced' by the Clinton administration, we are living in 'ground zero' of a world-wide economic crisis. My family is far better off than many here in the US, but by know means are we a family that would consider $7,000 to not be 'a lot of cash'.

While there are many who are financially suited to purchase a $7K television, most of us living in the 'real world' see that price point as unrealistically high and above what most of us would pay for a luxury item, and while it may be a very nice television, it is still just that... a television. $7,000 would pay off half of a 'new' entry level vehicle, or mostly all of a used vehicle. Also considering our rising rate of unemployment, many of the working class are holding back on big ticket luxury items at this time.

For me, while I would love one, I have resolved to never again purchase a first generation product, particularly a product where the selling price will eventually fall by one third or better over the next two years. I consider myself an 'enthusiast' and nowhere near the level of many other 'videophiles' on this forum. I would hazard a guess that there are many more 'enthusiasts' such as myself, for which having a modest Home Theater (in many cases a multi-purpose Home Theater/Family Room area) is their primary 'big' hobby.

My rear projection 'CRT' (Mitsubishi WS-65907) has incredible blacks, no rainbows or SDE to speak of. It has served me well in the eight-plus years that I have owned it. Were it not for HDMI and an on-board ATSC tuner... and wanting to move up to a 73" display, I would not be considering an upgrade. As it stands now, I'm holding off until the next generation (or two) of LaserVues are released, the prices come down, and the economy stabilizes.

Regards,
Spence

I love this. After 8 years of an administration that refused to regulate anything, particularly the financial industry, you blame the current meltdown on Democrats?

You always have to wait these things out. Prices go down faster or slower than you can anticipate. If you are a I-must-have-the-latest-and-schanniest-thing person, then I imagine you're already used to paying a lot for new gadgets. Go for it!

J

Why is price such a dominant topic in this thread, shouldn’t performance be the main point of discussion? People who think $7k is too much money for a TV are in the wrong thread, Laserview was never going to be cheap at launch.
The big issue for me is not price but performance, if performance is not up to the desired standard I’m not interested at ANY price, and it appears it is not.

Value for money is relative, you only have to look at what was available a few years ago to realise how good and cheap big 1080 TV’s are now, yet people are never happy and want even lower prices. $7k is a very reasonable price for a top class $65”, bearing in mind that “top class” products come at a significant premium, but the Laserview cannot be called top class and that for me is the rub. I can forgive issues like a non flat form factor and compromised off axis viewing but I demand the highest picture quality available no excuses, I don’t believe Laserview offers that.

I love this. After 8 years of an administration that refused to regulate anything, particularly the financial industry, you blame the current meltdown on Democrats?

Can we please get back on topic! There are a few of us that come here looking for information and not useless threadcrap!:mad:

I love this. After 8 years of an administration that refused to regulate anything, particularly the financial industry, you blame the current meltdown on Democrats?
Please do not twist my words. I stated simply that the mess we are in dates back to and has roots as far back as the Carter administration (http://newsbusters.org/blogs/noel-sheppard/2008/09/20/ibd-carter-more-blame-financial-crisis-bush-or-mccain). This is hardly an indictment against Democrats. It was fueled by predatory lenders and greedy buyer who purchased more home than they could afford.

You ignore my original point, which was in fact that $7,000 is a pretty large sum of money to the average American... which brings us back to the topic of the LaserVue, as this is not a thread about politics and I never meant to go off topic.

Spence

Why is price such a dominant topic in this thread, shouldn’t performance be the main point of discussion? People who think $7k is too much money for a TV are in the wrong thread, Laserview was never going to be cheap at launch.
The big issue for me is not price but performance, if performance is not up to the desired standard I’m not interested at ANY price, and it appears it is not.

Value for money is relative, you only have to look at what was available a few years ago to realise how good and cheap big 1080 TV’s are now, yet people are never happy and want even lower prices. $7k is a very reasonable price for a top class $65”, bearing in mind that “top class” products come at a significant premium, but the Laserview cannot be called top class and that for me is the rub. I can forgive issues like a non flat form factor and compromised off axis viewing but I demand the highest picture quality available no excuses, I don’t believe Laserview offers that.

I can't agree with you more. Spent almost $5000. on my mit's 65 " cargo box about 6 or 7 yrs ago. It's all a matter of your own personal priorities. (this is not a knock on anyone in this forum) I'm lucky my wife and I both work hard what she buys is fine with me and what I buy is fine with her, as long as we don't keep buying LOL. The thread is about laservue, not politics. But I can"t help this we now will have free health care and afordable collage, which is great since my daughter is going to law school, not to say the least that job's will be coming back to this country. We should allbe able to buy the 73 inch without a problem. Sorry couldn't help myself.

I can't agree with you more. Spent almost $5000. on my mit's 65 " cargo box about 6 or 7 yrs ago. It's all a matter of your own personal priorities. (this is not a knock on anyone in this forum) I'm lucky my wife and I both work hard what she buys is fine with me and what I buy is fine with her, as long as we don't keep buying LOL. The thread is about laservue, not politics. But I can"t help this we now will have free health care and afordable collage, which is great since my daughter is going to law school, not to say the least that job's will be coming back to this country. We should allbe able to buy the 73 inch without a problem. Sorry couldn't help myself.

LOL! "cargo box"! I hadn't heard that one before, but that accurately describes the old CRT Rear Projection sets!

As for 'free health care'? Ask a Canadian how that 'free health care' is working for them. ;)

Laserview was never going to be cheap at launch.


Owen,
I must disagree at this point as I distinctly recall early press releases for the LaserVue, touting brightness, colors, low energy consumption, and yes... a price competitive to that of comparable LCD displays.

Can anyone dig up an early press release for the LaserVue, because perhaps I miss interpreted it. I don't see many $7,000 LCD displays.

...of course I don't see many 65" LCD displays either, so the $7K price may be an accurate one, however I recall an initial shock among those waiting and watching for news on the LaserVue, when the price was announced.

If it was every bit as good as a Kuro I could understand the justifiable premium price, however from every report that I have read, it is not.

Either way, technology has a way of trickling down given time and advances in efficient manufacturing processes, the price will inevitably drop.

Spence

I don't know what the economic climate down in Australia is like, but here in the United States of America we are tightening our belts a bit. What is, or is not considered 'a lot of cash' is relative to your economic climate and the tax bracket that a given person is in.


The economic situation here is no where near as bleak as it appears to be in the US. No financial institutions have fallen over or are likely too, property prices are holding up well and people are not loosing their homes even with local interest rates averaging around 7.5%. The local economy has been very strong and although the fall out from the global economic crisis will have a significant negative effect, positive growth is still expected for the coming year. A turn down yes but not a disaster by any stretch.



$7k is a lot of cash to me to be spending on a TV. Is my salary really THAT bad? :confused:

I know people on very modest incomes that spend $7k a year on cigarettes and alcohol, people who gamble waste even more even though many of them can’t afford it.
Then there are the people who insist on buying new cars and taking a huge hit in depreciation, they could have purchased a good used vehicle and saved more then enough cash to pay for a $7k TV.

It's not always about how much you earn, how you spend makes all the difference. :D

To give some insight into local pricing, a 60” Pioneer Kuro goes for $9k and a 65” Panasonic for around $10k. Both would no doubt be considered expensive by most people, but we payed the same relative price for a 26” TV 30 years ago and only a little less in relative terms for a 34” HD TV only 8 years ago.
The biggest problem seems to be price perception or “sticker shock”. TV’s with prices over about $5k don’t sell well here no matter how good the price is for what you get.
$7k is really not a huge amount of money, it’s just perceived as being a lot for a TV. Plenty of people have hobbies, play sports, go on vacations etc that cost more, it’s all a matter of allocation of resources.

To give some insight into local pricing, a 60” Pioneer Kuro goes for $9k and a 65” Panasonic for around $10k

:eek:

As pointed out in an earlier post - things cost more down there - all relative indeed! Have a great (Australian) summer - it's our turn in the freezer. :)

Owen,
I must disagree at this point as I distinctly recall early press releases for the LaserVue, touting brightness, colors, low energy consumption, and yes... a price competitive to that of comparable LCD displays.

Can anyone dig up an early press release for the LaserVue, because perhaps I miss interpreted it. I don't see many $7,000 LCD displays.

...of course I don't see many 65" LCD displays either, so the $7K price may be an accurate one, however I recall an initial shock among those waiting and watching for news on the LaserVue, when the price was announced.

If it was every bit as good as a Kuro I could understand the justifiable premium price, however from every report that I have read, it is not.

Either way, technology has a way of trickling down given time and advances in efficient manufacturing processes, the price will inevitably drop.

Spence

Can you buy a 65” LCD or Plasma for less then $7k list.

There are RPTV’s available for much lower prices, so if $7k is too much buy one of them, why fixate on Lazerview pricing?
Seems like the extra cash for Laserview is paying for exaggerated color and sparkles.

The average tv if it was 8yrs. at $7000.00 =$2.39 per day ,$16.78 per week. Less than someone who smokes, buys coffee or lunch everday at work or what ever, it all boils down to what our priorities are. Like I said before all I likes are different. Who wants perfect blacks at what ever size, who whant's the biggest screen size for the buck. It's all in what your taste is about

The average tv if it was 8yrs. at $7000.00 =$2.39 per day ,$16.78 per week. Less than someone who smokes, buys coffee or lunch everday at work or what ever, it all boils down to what our priorities are. Like I said before all I likes are different. Who wants perfect blacks at what ever size, who whant's the biggest screen size for the buck. It's all in what your taste is about

Great analogy! ...I wonder if I can use that one on my wife? ;)

:eek:

Have a great (Australian) summer - it's our turn in the freezer. :)

We are never “in the freezer’ in this part of the world, it never gets cold enough to snow.:D
Summer is a bit hot for my liking, Spring and Fall (as you would call it) are my favourite times of year.

Great analogy! ...I wonder if I can use that one on my wife? ;)


Now that you have a plan to get financial approval from the "other half" :D, all you need is a good TV to buy, seems like Laserview is not it.

Now that you have a plan to get financial approval from the "other half" :D, all you need is a good TV to buy, seems like Laserview is not it.

Not only do I need a plan for financial approval, I have to wait for my 'agreement' to expire with said wife. "I shall not upgrade my television for ten years" (I had been drinking at the time and have been kicking myself for the past three years).

That was made in 2000, when I purchased my Mits 65907. I aim to squeeze another year or two from it and hope the LaserVue price is lower and quality is higher.

I've got time enough to wait.

Spence

Why is price such a dominant topic in this thread, shouldn’t performance be the main point of discussion? People who think $7k is too much money for a TV are in the wrong thread, Laserview was never going to be cheap at launch.


Excuse me? Have you even read the first post in this thread? Here's an excerpt:

In 2006 it was reported that: "Pricing is yet to be confirmed but Novalux estimates a 65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma." - And they have always touted it as inexpensive over the years.

When Laser was originally announced over 2 years ago, it was said to be very cheap to produce and would dominate the market due to its low prices.

I know people on very modest incomes that spend $7k a year on cigarettes and alcohol, people who gamble waste even more even though many of them can’t afford it.
Then there are the people who insist on buying new cars and taking a huge hit in depreciation, they could have purchased a good used vehicle and saved more then enough cash to pay for a $7k TV.
Ok, let's put it this way. The average US salary is only around $35k, IIRC. Take out essentials like food, shelter, transportation, utilities, etc., and $7k probably represents the majority of an "average" person's disposable income for an entire year. For a TV. Granted, the LaserVue isn't targeted towards someone living on an "average" US salary. But the TV is just one piece of the setup. Mine probably represents 20% of less of my entire a/v setup (for that room). I don't think anyone who would pay $7k on a TV would just hook it up to their cable box and use the TV's built in speakers. Someone spending $7k on a TV could easily spend an average US annual salary on the entire setup. I don't think there's any reason to doubt someone's seriousness when they say $7k is a lot of cash when discussing TVs.

To give some insight into local pricing, a 60” Pioneer Kuro goes for $9k and a 65” Panasonic for around $10k. ... $7k is really not a huge amount of money ...
If that's what a Kuro and a Panny go for down there, then $7k doesn't seem like the right number for a LaserVue in Australia. Is $14k a lot of cash?

Excuse me? Have you even read the first post in this thread? Here's an excerpt:

In 2006 it was reported that: "Pricing is yet to be confirmed but Novalux estimates a 65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma." - And they have always touted it as inexpensive over the years.

When Laser was originally announced over 2 years ago, it was said to be very cheap to produce and would dominate the market due to its low prices.


It was discovered quite while ago and discussed at length in this thread that such low pricing was not happening. People need to deal with that reality and either move on or wait for lower prices.
I believe that Lazerview IS cheap to produce, but production cost has little if anything to do with retail pricing. Prices are always kept as high as possible for as long as possible with consideration to the volume required to be sold. When enough people wont pay the price comes down or the product is withdrawn from sale.



Ok, let's put it this way. The average US salary is only around $35k, IIRC. Take out essentials like food, shelter, transportation, utilities, etc., and $7k probably represents the majority of an "average" person's disposable income for an entire year. For a TV. Granted, the LaserVue isn't targeted towards someone living on an "average" US salary. But the TV is just one piece of the setup. Mine probably represents 20% of less of my entire a/v setup (for that room). I don't think anyone who would pay $7k on a TV would just hook it up to their cable box and use the TV's built in speakers. Someone spending $7k on a TV could easily spend an average US annual salary on the entire setup. I don't think there's any reason to doubt someone's seriousness when they say $7k is a lot of cash when discussing TVs.


My comments have been taken out of context. I said “to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash”. $35k may be average but I certainly don’t consider it decent.
The idea that someone on average wage would be considering the purchase of a luxury 65” TV, most likely on finance is strange in deed. Buying “stuff’ we cannot afford on finance has put the world in the state it is in.


If that's what a Kuro and a Panny go for down there, then $7k doesn't seem like the right number for a LaserVue in Australia. Is $14k a lot of cash?

Why would you assume the 65” Laserview would be priced above the 65” Panasonic Plasma here? The list price for both is $7k in the US.
When the 65” 1080 Panasonic was first released here it had a list of $18.5k, that was over the top considering the performance. The current model is significantly better and almost half the price, so I don’t consider the current $9k-$10k price excessive at all, although people on “average” income sure would.
Lazerview will have a very tough time here if it ever comes down under, as RPTV’s have never been widely accepted. All RPTV’s went off the market over a year ago due to lack of demand.

Something tells me LaserVue sales are going to be poor...ahem, $6999 ahem*

Seriously, LaserVue by the sounds of it seems to have a superior image compared to LED LCD and Plasma when it comes to color, brightness and i'm guessing motion as well since its based on DLP Technology....

But again the price...ugh. I guess i'm just really bummed since Mitsu mentioned in the beginning that Laser HDTVs would sell for half the price of a typical high end Plasma or LCD.... alas' that's definitly not the case.....Anyways, I'd personally love a 46"-50" 1080p display, but there's no way i'd drop over $2,500 unless we're talking OLED....Or a display that can match the Color and Motion of high end CRT and that doesn't even exsist yet, well unless we're talking about that 11" Sony OLED going for $2,500 or maybe even LaserVue.

Something tells me LaserVue sales are going to be poor...ahem, $6999 ahem*

Seriously, LaserVue by the sounds of it seems to have a superior image compared to LED LCD and Plasma when it comes to color, brightness and i'm guessing motion as well since its based on DLP Technology....


It does? If you consider sparkles, SSE and exaggerated colors an advantage then sure.
In most viewing environments normal DLP’s and Plasma’s are more then bright enough.

QUOTE=Owen;15054271]It does? If you consider sparkles, SSE and exaggerated colors an advantage then sure.
In most viewing environments normal DLP’s and Plasma’s are more then bright enough.[/QUOTE]

For the life of me, I don't understand how rumors of this sort get started. I own the TV and I can assure you that there are no problems with sparkies, SSE and exaggerated colors with this set. It appears that any Tom, Dick or Harry can make a negative claim and it gains traction without qualification. I, on the other hand, have viewed ~ ten of the top rated BDs on this set and found the performance to be absolutely superb.
As to exaggerated colors, wide gamut displays do not have exaggerated colors. The new HDMI 1.3 specs call for Deep color and X.V.YCC color display capability. As of today, this is the only TV to my knowledge that's capable of doing that. I also own a Sony S550 BD player that is 1.3 compliant and is capable of delivering wide gamut video material. Xo don't try to turn an important feature into some sort of spurious disadvantage.
Now, I have a couple of photos that I have snapped, screen shots from BDs, that I will share. I have taken these with an Olympus E-3 DSLR with no Flash in a darkened room. I have tried to be as careful as possible to get a properly exposed and focused image as possible. These shots wer taken wi the camera set at ISO 100 with a 50mm/F2 lens at about 10 feet from the screen. I've done only minimal PP in LightRoom, to include cropping and straightiening and some tweaking of the WB and exposure. I am telling yhou all of this to emphasize the fact that it is important to demand this sort of information from anyone who would claim to have taken a representative photo of an image on the TV. It's not easy to take photos ot TV images. This first one is from KIll Bill
http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/johnblue3/_B113288.jpg

Next one is fromCrank

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/johnblue3/_B113285.jpg

Here is a picture of the TV in my Home

http://i35.photobucket.com/albums/d157/johnblue3/PB083284.jpg

The new HDMI 1.3 specs call for Deep color and X.V.YCC color display capability. As of today, this is the only TV to my knowledge that's capable of doing that. I also own a Sony S550 BD player that is 1.3 compliant and is capable of delivering wide gamut video material. Xo don't try to turn an important feature into some sort of spurious disadvantage.


HDMI 1.3 provides for “Deep Color and xvYCC”, problem is no video is encoded in those formats. If you display normal video on a wide gamut display you DO get exaggerated colors. Deep Color is not even possible on Bluray disk as it only supports 8bit encoding, Deep Color requires 10bit or more.
For accurate color presentation of Bluray video a display MUST conform to the Rec.709 standard color gamut, wide gamut is out.

Since you now have the Lazervue maybe we can look forward to some in depth measurements. Spectral distribution of the primaries and a CIE diagram showing conformance to the Rec.709 standard would be nice.

I own the TV and I can assure you that there are no problems with sparkies, SSE and exaggerated colors with this set. It appears that any Tom, Dick or Harry can make a negative claim and it gains traction without qualification. I, on the other hand, have viewed ~ ten of the top rated BDs on this set and found the performance to be absolutely superb.

As to exaggerated colors, wide gamut displays do not have exaggerated colors. The new HDMI 1.3 specs call for Deep color and X.V.YCC color display capability. As of today, this is the only TV to my knowledge that's capable of doing that. I also own a Sony S550 BD player that is 1.3 compliant and is capable of delivering wide gamut video material. Xo don't try to turn an important feature into some sort of spurious disadvantage.

Thank you John! While I am still looking to see this television for myself locally, your post gives me a great deal of hope. I am pleased that the display appears to work as advertised, but that price... oh that price! Well, as you claim, the price appears to be in line with the display's performance, so we can all understand that it commands a premium.

I now hope that the technology will come down in price in the years ahead.

There will be many who choose to argue with your findings, and will do so no matter what, but I would like to thank you sir, for being an early adopter. I look forward to your reports should you see fit to share them in this venue.

Regards,
Spence

...I know people on very modest incomes that spend $7k a year on cigarettes and alcohol, people who gamble waste even more even though many of them can’t afford it.
Then there are the people who insist on buying new cars and taking a huge hit in depreciation, they could have purchased a good used vehicle and saved more then enough cash to pay for a $7k TV.

It's not always about how much you earn, how you spend makes all the difference. :D

Very true and some good counselling! ;)

To give some insight into local pricing, a 60” Pioneer Kuro goes for $9k and a 65” Panasonic for around $10k.

This quote here is probably why your opinion differs much from others here. In the US, a non-elite Kuro goes for about $4k while I believe the Elite model goes for $5-$6k. When large flat panel TVs are available they are not cheap. People typically complain because they would like to purchase the larger TV but the price drives them away. However nowadays flat panels are in. A $7k RPTV (even though it is thinner) seems quite expensive to most for what it is. If it had the PQ that was touted the complaints would probably have tapered off after the TV has been released. However that just doesn't appear to be the case. If Mits could release this technology in front projection I'd be they'd get a lot of attention.

The US list price for the 60” Elite is $6.5k and $7k for the 65” Panasonic. Comparing list price for the Mitsubishi with street price for the Plasmas seems unfair and pointless.

For those of us not influenced by the “thin is beautiful” fad, the issue is wether the Lazervue can outperform the opposition.

Now, I have a couple of photos that I have snapped, screen shots from BDs, that I will share.

Nice shots imo. Would you be willing to share your display settings with us?

It was discovered quite while ago and discussed at length in this thread that such low pricing was not happening.

Please, don't change your points halfway through a discussion, it belittles all the posts you make.

Let me remind you of your original post:

Laserview was never going to be cheap at launch.


See, how you say it was NEVER going to be cheap at launch? And then, when it's pointed out to you that it was touted originally as being inexpensive, you change your strategy and now state "yes, but it was discovered quite awhile ago, blah, blah".

Obviously, it was discovered quite awhile ago that it wasn't going to be cheap. Some people, however, aren't here all the time and may be just discovering that fact (which is why it keeps coming up). Your point that it was never supposed to be cheap, is incorrect. That was the point of my post.

The US list price for the 60” Elite is $6.5k and $7k for the 65” Panasonic. Comparing list price for the Mitsubishi with street price for the Plasmas seems unfair and pointless.

For those of us not influenced by the “thin is beautiful” fad, the issue is wether the Lazervue can outperform the opposition.

I understand that from your perspective that the cost obviously isn't an issue for you and you are all about PQ but I think you are in the minority here. If the PQ isn't a big step up (which it doesn't seem that it is) and it's in a box, then I don't see your point. Why would someone want to spend what is $2k+ more on a TV that's only 5" larger and may not even outperform the competition and to top it off it's in a box???

Years ago the Qualia had a high price tag on it but at the time it was a nice advancement. Times have changed since then. "Thin" is in and when most TVs out there are thin, the box just doesn't have much appeal. The days of high priced RPTVs are over and to be quite honest Mitsubishi doesn't have the type of reputation that Pioneer and Sony have any more. And if anyone has learned from the release of the Qualia that Sony released an SXRD less than one year from the Qualia's release for less than the price.

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.

I would never buy a TV for $7000K, but I can say that comparing the price to similarly sized plasmas and LCDs, the marketing as of today is correct. 65" LCDs go for about $6500+ here in Orlando, FL, with plasmas being a little bit cheaper, unless you want a Pioneer which is gonna cost about that much.

I'd say the Laservue looks to be worth it, but for that price, I'd rather buy my 67" LED DLP, a current 1080p FP with decent 110-120" screen for night viewing, and a decent 7.1 surround HTIB.

My comments have been taken out of context. I said “to anyone on a decent income $7k is not a lot of cash”. $35k may be average but I certainly don’t consider it decent.
Perhaps the problem here is the definition of just what a decent salary is. I would think a decent income would certainly be above average, but definitely not $100k (in the USA). If the average income is $35k, I would think $50k would be a "decent" income, but a $7k TV purchase on an income of $50k would still be a major purchase.

The idea that someone on average wage would be considering the purchase of a luxury 65” TV, most likely on finance is strange in deed. Buying “stuff’ we cannot afford on finance has put the world in the state it is in.
Very true.

The US list price for the 60” Elite is $6.5k and $7k for the 65” Panasonic. Comparing list price for the Mitsubishi with street price for the Plasmas seems unfair and pointless.
At least for now, list price and street price for the Mitsubishi LaserVue are the same thing, so comparing street price for plasmas with list price of the LaserVue does make sense. To make it fair, we can say the current street price of the LaserVue is ~$7k :D.

Please, don't change your points halfway through a discussion, it belittles all the posts you make.

Let me remind you of your original post:



See, how you say it was NEVER going to be cheap at launch? And then, when it's pointed out to you that it was touted originally as being inexpensive, you change your strategy and now state "yes, but it was discovered quite awhile ago, blah, blah".

Obviously, it was discovered quite awhile ago that it wasn't going to be cheap. Some people, however, aren't here all the time and may be just discovering that fact (which is why it keeps coming up). Your point that it was never supposed to be cheap, is incorrect. That was the point of my post.

Since when have Mitsubishi ever suggested Laservue would be cheap? I must have missed it. The cheap price rumor seems to stem from Novalux back in 2006, hardily a reliable source for pricing information for a Mitsubishi product not even remotely close to release.

I understand that from your perspective that the cost obviously isn't an issue for you and you are all about PQ but I think you are in the minority here. If the PQ isn't a big step up (which it doesn't seem that it is) and it's in a box, then I don't see your point. Why would someone want to spend what is $2k+ more on a TV that's only 5" larger and may not even outperform the competition and to top it off it's in a box???

Years ago the Qualia had a high price tag on it but at the time it was a nice advancement. Times have changed since then. "Thin" is in and when most TVs out there are thin, the box just doesn't have much appeal. The days of high priced RPTVs are over and to be quite honest Mitsubishi doesn't have the type of reputation that Pioneer and Sony have any more. And if anyone has learned from the release of the Qualia that Sony released an SXRD less than one year from the Qualia's release for less than the price.

I guess we'll have to just agree to disagree.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am in favour of Mitsubishi’s pricing, nothing could be further from the truth. I would not have a problem paying $7k for a RPTV or even more PROVIDED it offered real performance for the money, however that does not seem to be the case with Laservue. Considering the performance and price of the competing products Laservue is WAY overpriced and has no chance of general market acceptance. Even if the price was halved I think Lazervue would struggle to survive.

Since when have Mitsubishi ever suggested Laservue would be cheap? I must have missed it. The cheap price rumor seems to stem from Novalux back in 2006, hardily a reliable source for pricing information for a Mitsubishi product not even remotely close to release.

Come on Owen, you're better than that.

Of course Mitsubishi never suggested it would be cheap. They never talked about price at all until a few months ago. Novalux (and many others) all predicted that it would be inexpensive. I hate to keep reminding you of your own posts, but I guess I have to. Here's what you said:

Laservue was never supposed to be cheap at launch.


You didn't say "Mitsubishi never said it was going to be cheap at launch" (which is what you're saying now - again changing things). Manufacturers never talk about price before the product is just about to launch, but usually the experts (magazines, parts manufacturers, etc.) can give a pretty good idea of what it'll be. In this case, most were way off base and it caught the consumer off guard.

Have you read the Oppo Blu Ray thread? Nobody knows what it'll cost, but most agree it'll be between $500 - $1000. If it launches at $2000, people will be a bit upset there too.

For 18 months, many sources stated that the Laservue would be inexpensive. Many members of this forum read or heard that information. Now that it's released, they come here to discover it's $7000. You don't see why they would be surprised or a bit ticked off about that?

Have you read the Oppo Blu Ray thread? Nobody knows what it'll cost, but most agree it'll be between $500 - $1000. If it launches at $2000, people will be a bit upset there too.
IIRC, that price range came directly from Oppo, not conjecture from magazines or forum members.

For 18 months, many sources stated that the Laservue would be inexpensive. Many members of this forum read or heard that information. Now that it's released, they come here to discover it's $7000. You don't see why they would be surprised or a bit ticked off about that?
Well, be ticked off at the sources that were wrong, not Mitsubishi.

You seem to be under the mistaken impression that I am in favour of Mitsubishi’s pricing, nothing could be further from the truth. I would not have a problem paying $7k for a RPTV or even more PROVIDED it offered real performance for the money, however that does not seem to be the case with Laservue. Considering the performance and price of the competing products Laservue is WAY overpriced and has no chance of general market acceptance. Even if the price was halved I think Lazervue would struggle to survive.

OK. Yes I did misunderstood you and I agree.

Well, be ticked off at the sources that were wrong, not Mitsubishi.

I'm not ticked off at anyone, but I can see how others would be. And I don't know who they're ticked off at, but since there's no official source thread here at AVS, this is where they come to talk about their displeasure.

Perhaps the problem here is the definition of just what a decent salary is. I would think a decent income would certainly be above average, but definitely not $100k (in the USA). If the average income is $35k, I would think $50k would be a "decent" income, but a $7k TV purchase on an income of $50k would still be a major purchase.


Yes, interpretation of “decent” can vary widely and I realise my comments could be easily misinterpreted. I was aware that the minimum wage in the US was low, but I did not realise the average income was only $35k, I do find that a bit surprising.

According to statistics the average male income here is around $65k and the average household income (two people working) is apparently around $100k. People on that sort of income do not consider them selves well of, they need it to pay a mortgage and get by. People on “decent” incomes earn in excess of $100k, that’s not high payed business executives or professionals, just average people in skilled jobs living in major cities.
I suppose my idea of “decent” does not fit in well with US expectations.:o

Yes, interpretation of “decent” can vary widely and I realise my comments could be easily misinterpreted. I was aware that the minimum wage in the US was low, but I did not realise the average income was only $35k, I do find that a bit surprising.

According to statistics the average male income here is around $65k and the average household income (two people working) is apparently around $100k. People on that sort of income do not consider them selves well of, they need it to pay a mortgage and get by. People on “decent” incomes earn in excess of $100k, that’s not high payed business executives or professionals, just average people in skilled jobs living in major cities.
I suppose my idea of “decent” does not fit in well with US expectations.:o
It's a tough comparison to make as local costs for things like rent / mortgage, food, transportation, etc. obviously have to be factored in before disposable income for "toys" can be considered. I'm not sure if $35k really is accurate for the average income in the US - I hope that's low as it would be really tough to get by on that. I know that things like cars and electronics typically cost a lot more in Australia than they do here in the US so a higher income certainly doesn't directly translate to a higher quality of life. I have no idea how the cost of housing, food, or utilities (water, sewage, heat, phone, electricity, etc.) compares.

Come on Owen, you're better than that.

Of course Mitsubishi never suggested it would be cheap. They never talked about price at all until a few months ago. Novalux (and many others) all predicted that it would be inexpensive. I hate to keep reminding you of your own posts, but I guess I have to. Here's what you said:

Laservue was never supposed to be cheap at launch.


You didn't say "Mitsubishi never said it was going to be cheap at launch" (which is what you're saying now - again changing things). Manufacturers never talk about price before the product is just about to launch, but usually the experts (magazines, parts manufacturers, etc.) can give a pretty good idea of what it'll be. In this case, most were way off base and it caught the consumer off guard.

Have you read the Oppo Blu Ray thread? Nobody knows what it'll cost, but most agree it'll be between $500 - $1000. If it launches at $2000, people will be a bit upset there too.

For 18 months, many sources stated that the Laservue would be inexpensive. Many members of this forum read or heard that information. Now that it's released, they come here to discover it's $7000. You don't see why they would be surprised or a bit ticked off about that?

I have no doubt people are disappointed, but they can only blame themselves for believing unsubstantiated rumours.
In the time that has elapsed since 2006 big flat panels have become so good and so cheap, why would anyone give a damn about Laservue pricing?:confused: Take the Plasma and run, Laservue dropped dead in the starting gate.

Here's some stats I read recently:

15% of people in the US make over $100,000.

60% of people make less than $50,000.

50% make less than $35,000.



By those stats, the average 2 person income family, would still be making less than $70,000 (and more likely, closer to $50,000 or $60,000)


IIRC, the average white FAMILY makes $55,000, the average black FAMILY makes $45,000 and the average Hispanic FAMILY makes $50,000)

It's a tough comparison to make as local costs for things like rent / mortgage, food, transportation, etc. obviously have to be factored in before disposable income for "toys" can be considered. I'm not sure if $35k really is accurate for the average income in the US - I hope that's low as it would be really tough to get by on that. I know that things like cars and electronics typically cost a lot more in Australia than they do here in the US so a higher income certainly doesn't directly translate to a higher quality of life. I have no idea how the cost of housing, food, or utilities (water, sewage, heat, phone, electricity, etc.) compares.

Yes comparison is very complex and I would not know how to begin.
What I do know is I can afford to spend $40k - $50k on “toys” per year with my “decent” income because I own my home and don’t have a mortgage or other expenses, just day to day living.

I think the announcements by Best Buy this morning that this is most difficult economic/retailing environment they have ever experienced suggests that Mits is going to have to re-evaluate their selling price. I still have to wonder how a 65" laservu is a better buy than a 60" kuro elite? At minimum this TV should have shipped at the 73" size for the price point, and even then it would have to be unarguably on hell of a TV.. right now we are getting rather mixed messages from people who have seen it and the one or two who claim to have purchased one. The value proposition is hard enough to make for the 65" laservue at 7K but in this environment it borders on ludicrous.

The Kill Bill Pic looks fantastic especially, i'd love to see how the PS3 or Wii games look on it, and again i was wondering how well it handles motion....I can't help being the motion whore that i am, but i doubt its up to par with CRT. But when it comes to moivies that's ok, but gaming is a different story

Excuse me? Have you even read the first post in this thread? Here's an excerpt:

In 2006 it was reported that: "Pricing is yet to be confirmed but Novalux estimates a 65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma." - And they have always touted it as inexpensive over the years.

When Laser was originally announced over 2 years ago, it was said to be very cheap to produce and would dominate the market due to its low prices.
...and what does Novalux have to do with Mitsubishi?

Its like Sony saying Ford trucks should cost $3000....or Ford saying Sony TVs should cost $400.

If Novalux thinks they know how to make TVs, then why aren't they?

Size is Mitsubishi’s only weapon against the flat panel onslaught; they had better use it while they can because 80” plus panels are coming.

The average tv if it was 8yrs. at $7000.00 =$2.39 per day ,$16.78 per week. Less than someone who smokes, buys coffee or lunch everday at work or what ever, it all boils down to what our priorities are. Like I said before all I likes are different. Who wants perfect blacks at what ever size, who whant's the biggest screen size for the buck. It's all in what your taste is about

if I'm in a position to pay $7000 for a RPTV, I'm not going to be happy sitting on the sideline for 8 yrs while the latest and greatest large screen LCD and plasma, not to mention OLED or whatvever, pass me by.

Size is Mitsubishi’s only weapon against the flat panel onslaught; they had better use it while they can because 80” plus panels are coming.
But will these 80" and bigger panels be priced at points where people with "decent" :D incomes can afford them?

if I'm in a position to pay $7000 for a RPTV, I'm not going to be happy sitting on the sideline for 8 yrs while the latest and greatest large screen LCD and plasma, not to mention OLED or whatvever, pass me by.
No matter what you buy now, technology is going to leave you behind over the next 8 years. Just like buying a computer - what you buy now will just be a doorstop in a few years.

http://www.i4u.com/article14083.html


2) What sizes will be initially available?

Mitsubishi showcased a 65" at CES. Other available sizes are still being reviewed and have not yet been announced."

5) Is the initial price-tag going to be competitive with existing display technologies or will it be much higher?

Mitsubishi LaserTV will be competitive with similar size, premium flat panel technology


http://laser-tv.org/2008/mitsubishis-laser-tv-ready-for-the-limelight/

“It’ll be competitive with flat panel prices.” Quote from Frank DeMartin, General Manager of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America.


Anyone who wanted to read that this would be cheaper than the high end Kuros/Panasonic was in fantasy land to begin with.

For the life of me, I don't understand how rumors of this sort get started. I own the TV and I can assure you that there are no problems with sparkies, SSE and exaggerated colors with this set. It appears that any Tom, Dick or Harry can make a negative claim and it gains traction without qualification. I, on the other hand, have viewed ~ ten of the top rated BDs on this set and found the performance to be absolutely superb.
As to exaggerated colors, wide gamut displays do not have exaggerated colors. The new HDMI 1.3 specs call for Deep color and X.V.YCC color display capability. As of today, this is the only TV to my knowledge that's capable of doing that. I also own a Sony S550 BD player that is 1.3 compliant and is capable of delivering wide gamut video material. Xo don't try to turn an important feature into some sort of spurious disadvantage.

As you have ZERO source material able to use the expanded gamut, to use your last line, don't try to turn an used feature into some sort of advantage.

That is the equivilant of having speakers that reproduce audio to 30khz as CDs will only reproduce upwards of 20khz.

And considering the greens are not accurate and cannot be made accurate (and I freely admit a large number of sets cannot display spot on ITU709 color points - but this one for $7k certainly should), you have decided what trades off to make.

Hey Waveboy,

Why don't you start an owner's thread and put your own review there? It may provide more of a safe haven as the title of this thread seems to invite and incite people to trash the tv and those who own it.

Hey Waveboy,

Why don't you start an owner's thread and put your own review there?
Waveboy misquoted John Stephens and THEN got misquoted by BeachComber. Unless I'm mistaken, John Stephens is the only one so far who has admitted to buying a LaserVue. A true owners thread would likely be a pretty lonely thread at this point :D.

Just saw the laservue at Modia here in Dallas. Overall I am not impressed with it. they had it set to torch mode but the sales associate let me adjust the settings. I have a WD-65736 so I changed the settings to match mine the best I could with the little bit of time I had to dim it down a bit.

Colors are definetely vivid, but I did notice speckles in solid colors. Maybe mitsubishi has fixed this problem with the sets they are shipping, or maybe some people are more sensitive to it than others, but I did see them on this tv.

to me the tv does look good but not worth 5 time what I paid for my new 736.

Also, take this with a grain of salt, but the sales associate said mitsubishi is planning to release a 110 inch next year. I'm not sure if I believe him on that one.

Waveboy misquoted John Stephens and THEN got misquoted by BeachComber. Unless I'm mistaken, John Stephens is the only one so far who has admitted to buying a LaserVue. A true owners thread would likely be a pretty lonely thread at this point :D.


Ahhh..but I wouldn't get a ton of notifications for OT posts.

...and what does Novalux have to do with Mitsubishi?

Its like Sony saying Ford trucks should cost $3000....or Ford saying Sony TVs should cost $400.

If Novalux thinks they know how to make TVs, then why aren't they?

AFAIK, Novalux developed the laser technology and provides Mitsubishi with the light engines in their displays, so your analogies aren't quite correct.

I would think that since the light engine is a major piece of the cost puzzle, that they might have a pretty good idea of what the set might cost and therefore what it might retail at.

Not to mention, that several other sources stated they also thought the Laservue would be cheaper to produce than other technologies.

http://www.i4u.com/article14083.html


2) What sizes will be initially available?

Mitsubishi showcased a 65" at CES. Other available sizes are still being reviewed and have not yet been announced."

5) Is the initial price-tag going to be competitive with existing display technologies or will it be much higher?

Mitsubishi LaserTV will be competitive with similar size, premium flat panel technology


http://laser-tv.org/2008/mitsubishis-laser-tv-ready-for-the-limelight/

“It’ll be competitive with flat panel prices.” Quote from Frank DeMartin, General Manager of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America.


Anyone who wanted to read that this would be cheaper than the high end Kuros/Panasonic was in fantasy land to begin with.

For some reason, you (and others) can't seem to comprehend the issue. Yes, after reading the quotes you provided, most people realized the sets might cost more than was originally thought.

Not everyone subscribes to this thread or pops in here everyday, however.

Many people read the early reports (from several sources) that predicted Laser would be cheaper than other displays. Now, they come to the thread to check on things and see that it's $7000. That surprises them and they comment on it.

Seriously, why is that so hard to understand? Which part of the equation eludes so many?

Also, take this with a grain of salt, but the sales associate said Mitsubishi is planning to release a 110 inch next year.

Must be a built-in kit like the Optoma 100" kit. With lasers, and if they fix the speckle problem, it should be a great seller. A 110" RPTV in it's own box would be too big to ship realistically.

IB

Prices with similar size and premium quality. The pio elite 60" is less than that, but it is smaller. The 65 inch PZ800 MSRPs at close to 7k, doesn't it?? And the 65 inch sharp XS-1 is what, 15k??? 13k?? something along those lines.

AFAIK, Novalux developed the laser technology and provides Mitsubishi with the light engines in their displays, so your analogies aren't quite correct.
I would think that since the light engine is a major piece of the cost puzzle, that they might have a pretty good idea of what the set might cost and therefore what it might retail at.
Not to mention, that several other sources stated they also thought the Laservue would be cheaper to produce than other technologies.


I am confident Lazervue IS cheap to make, probably no more costly then any other DLP RPTV, but as I said before retail price and manufacturing cost are not related. The highest possible price is always charged initially and then after the early adopters have jumped in and demand can be gauged the price is adjusted down.
Lazerview will get cheaper, probably much cheaper just be patient. All good things come top those who wait. :D

Man, I haven't checked this thread out in a while and people are ripping on each other worse than ever, what gives?

John, thanks for the pics and congrats on your purchase.

P.S. I was told my HD Camcorder supports Deep Color; I am sure others do. You might look for one of those and film your own X.V.YCC source material. :-)

I am confident Lazervue IS cheap to make, probably no more costly then any other DLP RPTV, but as I said before retail price and manufacturing cost are not related. The highest possible price is always charged initially and then after the early adopters have jumped in and demand can be gauged the price is adjusted down.
Lazerview will get cheaper, probably much cheaper just be patient. All good things come top those who wait. :D

Mitsubishi's first DLP listed for around $12,000 in 2001.

I am confident Lazervue IS cheap to make, probably no more costly then any other DLP RPTV, but as I said before retail price and manufacturing cost are not related. The highest possible price is always charged initially and then after the early adopters have jumped in and demand can be gauged the price is adjusted down.
Lazerview will get cheaper, probably much cheaper just be patient. All good things come top those who wait. :D

I understand all that. Not sure how it relates to the initial discussion though.

This started when someone (you?) stated that Laser was NEVER supposed to be cheaper (than what it is). That is not true. The info might not have come from Mits, but it did come from several sources (one of which has very close ties to the Laservue) stating that Laservue should be cheaper (predictions ranged from $1500 - $5000) than other displays.

Based on the fact that for over 1 year, most speculated this fact, it's no surprise that price is the first thing members react to in this forum.

That's it. What I thought was a simple point has now gotten convoluted with posts regarding information that was gathered later, the credibility of the early announcements, the principle of declining costs in a displays lifespan, etc. None of those things really matter to the original discussion/point.

Originally, there was reason to believe that these displays would be cheaper than other technologies. Now people are surprised that it's equal to or more expensive than those other technologies. That shouldn't be hard to understand.


Heck, the 70" Runco LCD has an MSRP of $35,000. Would you not have been surprised if the Laservue was $35,000? At $35,000 it would still be "competitive with similar sized, premium flat panel technologies" (i.e. the Runco), would it not?

AFAIK, Novalux developed the laser technology and provides Mitsubishi with the light engines in their displays, so your analogies aren't quite correct.

I would think that since the light engine is a major piece of the cost puzzle, that they might have a pretty good idea of what the set might cost and therefore what it might retail at.

Not to mention, that several other sources stated they also thought the Laservue would be cheaper to produce than other technologies.



For some reason, you (and others) can't seem to comprehend the issue. Yes, after reading the quotes you provided, most people realized the sets might cost more than was originally thought.

Not everyone subscribes to this thread or pops in here everyday, however.

Many people read the early reports (from several sources) that predicted Laser would be cheaper than other displays. Now, they come to the thread to check on things and see that it's $7000. That surprises them and they comment on it.

Seriously, why is that so hard to understand? Which part of the equation eludes so many?

What amazes me is people take sources other than Mitsubishi and think because they said it would come in a x price point, that was gospel.

This started when someone (you?) stated that Laser was NEVER supposed to be cheaper (than what it is). That is not true. The info might not have come from Mits, but it did come from several sources (one of which has very close ties to the Laservue) stating that Laservue should be cheaper (predictions ranged from $1500 - $5000) than other displays.

That is as ridiculous as GE saying what the price of the Boeing Dreamliner will be just because they make the engines. They have no idea what the total price will be or where it will come in.

Waveboy misquoted John Stephens and THEN got misquoted by BeachComber. Unless I'm mistaken, John Stephens is the only one so far who has admitted to buying a LaserVue. A true owners thread would likely be a pretty lonely thread at this point :D.

I misquoted him? I cut and pasted his post. Hard to misquote a cut and paste. You are reallly trying to spin.

Furthermore, Waveboy said he owned the set in the second line of the post you claim I misquoted For the life of me, I don't understand how rumors of this sort get started. I own the TV ...

How do you know that I misquoted him, considering its clear you do not have comprehension of his post?

Perhaps you should read things multiple times to make sure you have all the facts and understand them?

I understand all that. Not sure how it relates to the initial discussion though.

This started when someone (you?) stated that Laser was NEVER supposed to be cheaper (than what it is). That is not true. The info might not have come from Mits, but it did come from several sources (one of which has very close ties to the Laservue) stating that Laservue should be cheaper (predictions ranged from $1500 - $5000) than other displays.

Based on the fact that for over 1 year, most speculated this fact, it's no surprise that price is the first thing members react to in this forum.

That's it. What I thought was a simple point has now gotten convoluted with posts regarding information that was gathered later, the credibility of the early announcements, the principle of declining costs in a displays lifespan, etc. None of those things really matter to the original discussion/point.

Originally, there was reason to believe that these displays would be cheaper than other technologies. Now people are surprised that it's equal to or more expensive than those other technologies. That shouldn't be hard to understand.


Heck, the 70" Runco LCD has an MSRP of $35,000. Would you not have been surprised if the Laservue was $35,000? At $35,000 it would still be "competitive with similar sized, premium flat panel technologies" (i.e. the Runco), would it not?


35K for a DLP?? What are you smokin?

But will these 80" and bigger panels be priced at points where people with "decent" :D incomes can afford them?

Maybe not initially but it wont take long, manufactures have to give current large HDTV owners some reason to upgrade. The 1080p marketing frenzy is running out of steam and the performance levels of future TV’s won’t be remarkably better to most people, that leaves size as the major inducement. 80” will become the new 60” over time.



No matter what you buy now, technology is going to leave you behind over the next 8 years. Just like buying a computer - what you buy now will just be a doorstop in a few years.

How true, if you want the best available you will have to upgrade relatively frequently.
My last HDTV was replaced after 2 years and my current one is 20 months old and nearing the end of its expected life, only problem is there is no suitable replacement available so I may have to wait another year or more, which a have to say I did not expect.

I misquoted him? I cut and pasted his post. Hard to misquote a cut and paste. You are reallly trying to spin.

Furthermore, Waveboy said he owned the set in the second line of the post you claim I misquoted

How do you know that I misquoted him, considering its clear you do not have comprehension of his post?

Perhaps you should read things multiple times to make sure you have all the facts and understand them?
Good grief - was the intent of my post really that difficult to get? I wasn't saying that you did some horrible thing. Your quote of Waveboy's post carried forward the initial misquote. There, is that better? Waveboy did not say that he owned the set - those were John Stephen's words, not Waveboy's. Go back and re-read John Stephen's earlier post (here, I'll make it easy for you - it's post #2929) and then Waveboy's post and I would hope it will become clear. Even take a not so close look at Waveboy's post and you'll see the screwed up quote attribution. But hey, it's easier to just accuse me of being an idiot... :rolleyes:

----

Why all the hostility people? This is just a TV we're talking about...

Who cares that my sister inlaw's uncle's father's friend's mother's husband said the TV would cost $1000 (yes - in case it isn't clear to all - I'm making up a source and number to show how ridiculous the discussion is)? We all knew it was going to cost more than any existing DLP. The only question was how much more. The cost is $7k, so let's move on.

What amazes me is people take sources other than Mitsubishi and think because they said it would come in a x price point, that was gospel.



That is as ridiculous as GE saying what the price of the Boeing Dreamliner will be just because they make the engines. They have no idea what the total price will be or where it will come in.


You can't be that obtuse. Nobody said anything was gospel. Nobody said any of the predictions were fact. There's a big difference between Novalux and their relationship with Mitsubishi and Ge and Boeing (or any other ridiculous scenario you try to come up with). Seriously, do any of you actually read the posts that are written or are you so wrapped up in your own thoughts that you just ignore most of it and only respond to the aspects you think fit in with your scenarios?

35K for a DLP?? What are you smokin?

Thank you for making my point for me paul. You take one sentence out of context from one lengthy post and comment on it. Disregarding all the other comments that are factual, because you have nothing else to say. Unbelievable the way the majority of conversations are dismissed and for some reason folks will pass up 90% of the information that they have no response for only to try and make a lame comeback of some sort to a fragment of a post they misunderstood.

Yes, Paul, $35K for a DLP is ridiculous. So is $7K. Understand the example now, or do I need to type slower?

I remember when this forum had intelligent conversation and discussions were made point by point. Now, members just seem to take one aspect of a post and spin it to try and make themselves feel better about themselves and their retorts.


/unsubscribe

I understand all that. Not sure how it relates to the initial discussion though.

Its very relevant, Mitsubishi would be stupid to low ball the price on a supposedly outstanding “new” technology from day one.



This started when someone (you?) stated that Laser was NEVER supposed to be cheaper (than what it is). That is not true. The info might not have come from Mits, but it did come from several sources (one of which has very close ties to the Laservue) stating that Laservue should be cheaper (predictions ranged from $1500 - $5000) than other displays.

Now you are twisting my words, I said it would not be cheap at release. New technology is almost never cheap at release, anyone who thought Laservue would be was deluding them selves. The fact that Laservue street prices are higher then the competition because dealers are not discounting is a separate issue, they obviously figure they can sell the available stock at the list price. Good luck to um I say, they need all the profit they can get.



That's it. What I thought was a simple point has now gotten convoluted with posts regarding information that was gathered later, the credibility of the early announcements, the principle of declining costs in a displays lifespan, etc. None of those things really matter to the original discussion/point.

How is the credibility of pricing information not relevant?



Originally, there was reason to believe that these displays would be cheaper than other technologies. Now people are surprised that it's equal to or more expensive than those other technologies. That shouldn't be hard to understand.

It IS cheaper to make then other technologies; it’s just not cheaper to buy YET.

You seem to be particularly disturbed by this pricing issue, you will get a much better price if you just wait a little while. After 8 years what’s your rush?:confused:

I'm not the one who posted up those LaserVue Pics, that was obviously somebody else i just 'replied' to that person with the pics attached

I just wanted to see what PS3 or Wii games look liked set up on the display, i want to see how the color is and if its up to par with a high end CRT, and i was also wondering how it handles motion.

So, can anyone confirm whether or not this new set from Mitsubishi uses the older "wobulated" DMD chip from Texas Instruments, native 960x1080 pixels, or does it use a newer DMD chip with a true native 1920x1080 pixels, such as the DarkChip4 ?

"The LA65-A90 uses a Texas Instruments .65” Dark Chip 4 DLP (Digital Light Processor) as the microdisplay imager."

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

If LaserVue doesn't get smaller in size to at least 50" and at a more affordable price than i'm just going to wait and get a Samsung OLED HDTV in 2010....

I was planning on getting the Samsung PN50A550 1080p Plasma, but something tells me that i'd regret it

I just wanted to see what PS3 or Wii games look liked set up on the display, i want to see how the color is and if its up to par with a high end CRT, and i was also wondering how it handles motion.


Very few, if any CRT’s had accurate color conforming to the Rec.709 HD color standard. There are quite a few current Plasma’s, LCD’s and DLP’s that are either are or can be calibrated to be very accurate.

The Laservue is going to look “deferent” to any CRT even if its primary colors can be made accurate because the spectral distribution of the primary colours is very dissimilar to phosphor based displays like Plasma and CRT.

If LaserVue doesn't get smaller in size to at least 50" and at a more affordable price than i'm just going to wait and get a Samsung OLED HDTV in 2010....

I was planning on getting the Samsung PN50A550 1080p Plasma, but something tells me that i'd regret it

Better re evaluate your plans because its not viable to make a 50” Laservue, it would cost almost as much as a 73” to make because the only difference is the size of the box and screen, yet it would have to compete with very cheap 50” panels.

Don’t hold out for OLED, it has plenty of issues to overcome and may never be the best video display, cost will be a real issue as well.

If you are looking at a Plasma why Samsung? Pioneer and Panasonic are the leaders in Plasma.

Yes comparison is very complex and I would not know how to begin.
What I do know is I can afford to spend $40k - $50k on “toys” per year with my “decent” income because I own my home and don’t have a mortgage or other expenses, just day to day living.

Wow dude! That's a lot of cash regardless of whether you don't have expenses or not. If a person in the US makes $65k, they are only going to clear $40k-$50k after taxes. Then you have to deduct property tax, gas, gas & electric, phone, food, and the remaining basics. By the time you factor in all of that there's no way a person making $65k in the US can have that kind of extra money (let alone have it to spend on toys):confused:. Be thankful! It sounds like the average person in Australia is way ahead of the game in the US. :)

So, can anyone confirm whether or not this new set from Mitsubishi uses the older "wobulated" DMD chip from Texas Instruments, native 960x1080 pixels, or does it use a newer DMD chip with a true native 1920x1080 pixels, such as the DarkChip4 ?

Keep in mind that the "new DarkChip4" does not mean that it is a native 1920x1080 chip. All the current bulb based Mitsubishi DLPs use the DarkChip4, but it's still a 960x1080 wobulated design, and I would assume the LaserVue to be the same. To the best of my knowledge, no rear projection DLP TV has ever used the native 1920x1080 chips.

"The LA65-A90 uses a Texas Instruments .65” Dark Chip 4 DLP (Digital Light Processor) as the microdisplay imager."

http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/

from the article: As with all 1080p DLP rear projectors, the chip uses a pixel shifting technique to produce 1920 x 1080 pixel frame every 1/60 of a second.

so yes it's DC4 and wobulated.

from the article: As with all 1080p DLP rear projectors, the chip uses a pixel shifting technique to produce 1920 x 1080 pixel frame every 1/60 of a second.

so yes it's DC4 and wobulated.

How does that work when the display is rated at 120hz? ...do they do some sort of double-wobulation... or 'dwobulation'? ;)

To the best of my knowledge, no rear projection TV has ever used the native 1920x1080 chips.Not even the Sony SXRD rear projections?

They aren't true 120hz displays. At least all the other DLPs aren't (can't say for fact that the Laservue isn't different). They do 120 sub-frames every second, which results in 60 full (1920x1080) frames per second.

Not even the Sony SXRD rear projections?

Sorry, I was talking specifically about DLP. I'll correct the post.

Better re evaluate your plans because its not viable to make a 50” Laservue, it would cost almost as much as a 73” to make because the only difference is the size of the box and screen, yet it would have to compete with very cheap 50” panels.

Don’t hold out for OLED, it has plenty of issues to overcome and may never be the best video display, cost will be a real issue as well.

If you are looking at a Plasma why Samsung? Pioneer and Panasonic are the leaders in Plasma.

Issues? like what? Samsung already said they could sell them now if they wanted to, but its the high price that is the main problem, as to why i'm guessing they're releasing them later on.

For now though, LaserVue is out of the question because of its smallest size being 65" and its high price tag, and LCDs because they're for the most part inferior to plasma PQ wise....So if i were to pick up a display now, it would be between the Panasonic 46" 800U or the Samsung 50" 550...And even though the 800U May have slightly better blacks, it's price is far too high for my liking where as the Sammy has great color, great blacks and is at a great price going at $1699

BUT, there's also one more display that's made my JVC, and it's the last and newest LCOS 46" 1080p HDTV on the market, and it goes normally for around $3500 i think, but i can get a deal on it from my cousin for $2500.....and the thing is though, i've checked it out at his place and the color was fantastic, the blacks seemed pretty good and the motion was great as well, but at the same time i didn't have enough time with it...

So the question is, do i get the Samsung 50" 550 1080p HDTV for $1699 or do i get the 46" JVC LCOS 1080p HDTV for $2500? i need to have more hands on with the 2 to decide i guess....

Now that people have started ownign these, I'd like to know whether there's a hot spot issue. Most rear-projection systems I've seen have this problem,which pretty much means that there's a narrow seating position where the screen seens evenly lit.

Does the Laservue have this problem? Or is this something pretty much confined to other lighting technologies?

Now that people have started ownign these, I'd like to know whether there's a hot spot issue. Most rear-projection systems I've seen have this problem,which pretty much means that there's a narrow seating position where the screen seens evenly lit.

Does the Laservue have this problem? Or is this something pretty much confined to other lighting technologies?


It has been already reported here that the LV is no different than other DLPs as far as seating position is concerned.

It has been already reported here that the LV is no different than other DLPs as far as seating position is concerned.

But DLPs vary, with some of the LED based sets having a more pronounced hot spot, for example. It would be interesting to see where the LV falls...

A correction as of Monday morning. The #2 electronics store chain, Circuit City has filed for bankrupty.
http://money.aol.com/news/articles/_a/bbdp/circuit-city-files-for-bankruptcy/242760

Headline in 13 Nov 08 WSJ Marketplace:
BEST BUY WARNS OF DIRE HOLIDAY SALES
Electronics Giant Says Profit and Revenue Will Fall Short of Forecasts, Sending Shivers Through Markets

Can't you just see those 7K dlp's flying out the door

Wow dude! That's a lot of cash regardless of whether you don't have expenses or not. If a person in the US makes $65k, they are only going to clear $40k-$50k after taxes. Then you have to deduct property tax, gas, gas & electric, phone, food, and the remaining basics. By the time you factor in all of that there's no way a person making $65k in the US can have that kind of extra money (let alone have it to spend on toys):confused:. Be thankful! It sounds like the average person in Australia is way ahead of the game in the US. :)


Hold on there man, your calculations are a little off; no way you would have $40-$50k free if you earned $65k here. Tax would be $10.5k, electric, water, phone/internet/cell, food, basics and vehicle running costs can be covered for $20k for a single person.
If you own your home you will be up for rates and insurance, about $1400 a year, and if you rent a decent home it will cost about $13k per year.
Medical insurance is not required as everyone is covered by a national health system and your retirement is covered by compulsory superannuation. Employers must pay 9% of your gross salary into an approved fund of your choice. This is not considered part of your taxable income and is on top of your salary, so someone on $65k is actually getting almost $71k from their employer including 9% superannuation.

So a single home owner on average income should have up to $33K to spend on non essential items.
If you rent your discretionary outgoings would be reduced to about $21k per year.
A working couple would be significantly better of as they can share resources, but a family would obviously eat into that.
If you want to pay off the average home one “decent” income or two average incomes are required. Obviously if you have that level of income and are not paying a mortgage you have plenty of cash for toys or whatever, even if those toys cost more. Let a woman loose however and she will soon find a way to spend it. :D


Sorry for the off topic post people, but I thought some clarification was in order.

Thanks for the clarification and insight! :D

Just saw the Laservue.

I've been surprised by the wide divergence of opinions about the picture quality, so I went to see it for myself. I finally understand the reason for the divergence.

There are three variables at play for the speckles. The Brilliant setting, the Natural setting, and the resolution/definition of the feed.

The Brilliant setting is the problem, if your source material is not a real 1080p(maybe 1080i) source. At 1080p, the Brilliant setting is truly brilliant. No speckles moving around, no white or colored speckles in white or black fields. Zip, Zero, nada.

However, if the material is not HD, the speckles appear. The salesman turned the feed the same TV show that the other screens were showing and the speckles immediately came on, as well as a kind of "blocky" color enhancement.

When he switched to Natural, the speckles disappeared. Looking closer, at both the LV in Natural and other DLPs, the film grain(?) looked the same. No biggie at normal viewing distances. In this case, 5-6 feet away.

I'm guessing the Brilliant setting enhances any color difference between pixels or small groups of pixels. If the source is less than 1080p(or 1080i?), and I'm not sure how much less, this differentiation results in the "ants crawling" effect.

I'm not sure how a Blu-Ray of an older movie with a lot of film grain would look but I'm guessing you might see crawling speckles. Also, interesting would be how a film like 300 looks with it's artificial grain.

Waveboy or any other owner of an LV - could you let us know?

The blacks looked very good, though the room was dim not dark.

There is very slight SSE if you get very close to the LV but you won't be watching at that distance. So, a non-issue. The viewing angle is very good horizontally, less so vertically but not horrible.

As far as the price, honestly, I'm not sure. The LV had the best looking picture there, if conditions were met and sports looked awesome in Brilliant, but not blow me away better. At $4000-5000, I might go for it. At $7000, I'd have to think long and hard about it.

Also, according to the salesman, 75 inch and 110 inch are coming out next year.

Waveboy or any other owner of an LV - could you let us know?
Waveboy isn't an owner - that came out of confusion from misattributed quotes. I'm pretty sure the only confirmed owner so far is John Stephens.

Also, according to the salesman, 75 inch and 110 inch are coming out next year.
It'll be interesting to see what the prices will be on the larger sizes :D:eek:.

Also, according to the salesman, 75 inch and 110 inch are coming out next year.


I also heard from my Tweeter storage manager (they are doing a fire sale because of the liquidation) that a 110" is coming. I took it with a grain of salt but now it seems that several people are getting the same intel.

The 75 (or 73) inches is the one I want to see , no room or money for a 110 anyway.

Again, i dont own a LaserVue, it's John Stevens who does.

I also heard from my Tweeter storage manager (they are doing a fire sale because of the liquidation) that a 110" is coming.
I've heard that Tweeter is in trouble - any idea what exactly is happening with them? Close some stores? Closing all stores? Unloading inventory to pay off debt?