And how much does a 65" or larger Kuro cost again? ;)

60" is the biggest.

.

Laservue seems more like a marketing exercise rather then a serious attempt at a high end product. If JVC put their top range LCoS front projector in an 70”- 80” RPTV that would really be something, no way it would be $7k though.


Put perfectly. I believe MITS knew that LV wasn't going to blow other formats away with pq, although that is what was suggested. Now they are stuck with trying to make it work, a tough assignment in these tough economic times, or just kinda letting it die on the vine.

And how much does a 65" or larger Kuro cost again?

I just bought 2 6020 Kuros at Costco for $5800, for reference my Mits 65833 cost me over $4k with the stand and offers an inferior picture.

As far as the LaserVue not intended for mass market, well why not? Mitsubishi was late to market with LCD, and DLP is on it's last breath so for me to believe that LV was just "testing" the waters...they may find themselves in the same boat as Pioneer but at least Pioneer could lay claim to having one of the best HDTVs ever made...unlike Mits.

I just bought 2 6020 Kuros at Costco for $5800, for reference my Mits 65833 cost me over $4k with the stand and offers an inferior picture.

As far as the LaserVue not intended for mass market, well why not? Mitsubishi was late to market with LCD, and DLP is on it's last breath so for me to believe that LV was just "testing" the waters...they may find themselves in the same boat as Pioneer but at least Pioneer could lay claim to having one of the best HDTVs ever made...unlike Mits.

Whoa, I would be all over a Kuro 6020 for $2900....on the Costco site it does not look like they even carry the 6020.

Is that $5800 apiece, or for both?

Is that $5800 apiece, or for both?
Lord I hope not. That's about $1,500 too much if that is the case.

60" is the biggest.
I know that, hence the wink in my post...
I just bought 2 6020 Kuros at Costco for $5800, for reference my Mits 65833 cost me over $4k with the stand and offers an inferior picture.
But for the $4k, you also got a 65" screen instead of a 60" screen so there are advantages to both options and my wink was clearly missed yet again (doesn't anyone get humor anymore???).

A hypothetical Gen 9 Kuro in a 65" size would have a MSRP somewhat significantly higher than the 65" LaserVue. For comparison purposes, a 58" Panasonic plasma has a MSRP of $3700-$4500 (depending on the specific model) while the 65" model is $7000. The 60" Kuros are $5500 (non-Elite) and $6500 (Elite) which translates to a hypothetical 65" model being in the ballpark of $7500 (non-Elite) and $9000 (Elite). Yes, the street price would be discounted, but it sounds like people have been able to pay less than MSRP for the LaserVues too.

As far as the LaserVue not intended for mass market, well why not? Mitsubishi was late to market with LCD, and DLP is on it's last breath so for me to believe that LV was just "testing" the waters...they may find themselves in the same boat as Pioneer but at least Pioneer could lay claim to having one of the best HDTVs ever made...unlike Mits.
The point wasn't that LaserVue will never be intended for the masses, but that the first version of it isn't. Mitsubishi has a pretty long history of doing that with first generation products (their first DLP RPTV was $15k around 6 years ago when the Diamond series CRT RPTV was around $7k). While the LaserVue is "just" a DLP with a different light source, it seems pretty clear that it isn't just a minor change in that they've made the cabinet shallower, there's a significant weight difference, it uses a moving screen, etc. There would seem to be a significant amount of new technology in these sets. Whether it will turn out to be a worthwhile path for them to go down will depend on how quickly they can bring them back to the market, how quickly they can bring the price down to a more reasonable level, how reliable they turn out to be, and so on. It would have been foolish for them to build millions of these for the first generation only to find a flaw that they have to fix under warranty. It makes more financial sense to sell a relatively small number of the first generation, work out any kinks, and then hopefully mass produce the next generation.

I know that, hence the wink in my post...

But for the $4k, you also got a 65" screen instead of a 60" screen so there are advantages to both options and my wink was clearly missed yet again (doesn't anyone get humor anymore???).

A hypothetical Gen 9 Kuro in a 65" size would have a MSRP somewhat significantly higher than the 65" LaserVue. For comparison purposes, a 58" Panasonic plasma has a MSRP of $3700-$4500 (depending on the specific model) while the 65" model is $7000. The 60" Kuros are $5500 (non-Elite) and $6500 (Elite) which translates to a hypothetical 65" model being in the ballpark of $7500 (non-Elite) and $9000 (Elite). Yes, the street price would be discounted, but it sounds like people have been able to pay less than MSRP for the LaserVues too.


The point wasn't that LaserVue will never be intended for the masses, but that the first version of it isn't. Mitsubishi has a pretty long history of doing that with first generation products (their first DLP RPTV was $15k around 6 years ago when the Diamond series CRT RPTV was around $7k). While the LaserVue is "just" a DLP with a different light source, it seems pretty clear that it isn't just a minor change in that they've made the cabinet shallower, there's a significant weight difference, it uses a moving screen, etc. There would seem to be a significant amount of new technology in these sets. Whether it will turn out to be a worthwhile path for them to go down will depend on how quickly they can bring them back to the market, how quickly they can bring the price down to a more reasonable level, how reliable they turn out to be, and so on. It would have been foolish for them to build millions of these for the first generation only to find a flaw that they have to fix under warranty. It makes more financial sense to sell a relatively small number of the first generation, work out any kinks, and then hopefully mass produce the next generation.
A 65" Kuro would also make the LaserVue weep. :)

The issue is...one comes much, much closer to being worth the high dollar amount while the other just doesn't. The LaserVue isn't worth any more than the Mits bulb-based DLP's IMO.

A 65" Kuro would also make the LaserVue weep. :)
It probably would, if only they had made one. I most likely would have bought an Elite Kuro this year IF they had made a 65" or larger model and the price had been in the ballpark of my estimate. Instead, I bought a new-in-box Mits. WD-65835 at the Tweeter going out of business sale figuring it will do me well until better options come along.

The issue is...one comes much, much closer to being worth the high dollar amount while the other just doesn't. The LaserVue isn't worth any more than the Mits bulb-based DLP's IMO.
No argument there, I just feel that the LaserVue is getting somewhat unfair treatment in price comparisons when being compared to smaller screen sizes as it's not a fair comparison. I also haven't been able to see a LaserVue yet (I'm not aware of any retail establishment that's had one in the Boston area), so I can only go by what people have said as far as picture quality goes. I think the technology has potential, so I'm interested in seeing what they do for the next generation.

It probably would, if only they had made one. I most likely would have bought an Elite Kuro this year IF they had made a 65" or larger model and the price had been in the ballpark of my estimate. Instead, I bought a new-in-box Mits. WD-65835 at the Tweeter going out of business sale figuring it will do me well until better options come along.


No argument there, I just feel that the LaserVue is getting somewhat unfair treatment in price comparisons when being compared to smaller screen sizes as it's not a fair comparison. I also haven't been able to see a LaserVue yet (I'm not aware of any retail establishment that's had one in the Boston area), so I can only go by what people have said as far as picture quality goes. I think the technology has potential, so I'm interested in seeing what they do for the next generation.

I will only compare it to Mits bulb-based DLP's, Samsung bulb-based DLP's, Samsung LED DLP's, and 60" Kuro's. (they are close enough in size IMO)

It probably would, if only they had made one. I most likely would have bought an Elite Kuro this year IF they had made a 65" or larger model and the price had been in the ballpark of my estimate. Instead, I bought a new-in-box Mits. WD-65835 at the Tweeter going out of business sale figuring it will do me well until better options come along.


No argument there, I just feel that the LaserVue is getting somewhat unfair treatment in price comparisons when being compared to smaller screen sizes as it's not a fair comparison. I also haven't been able to see a LaserVue yet (I'm not aware of any retail establishment that's had one in the Boston area), so I can only go by what people have said as far as picture quality goes. I think the technology has potential, so I'm interested in seeing what they do for the next generation.


I viewed a 65LV close to a 65835 and I didn't see a whole lotta difference.
I almost bought a 65835 last year before finally deciding to go with an lcd, but I liked the 835. Last April, Amazon had the 65835 for 2K and some change. The 835 gave good value for the money, LV, no way.

I will only compare it to Mits bulb-based DLP's, Samsung bulb-based DLP's, Samsung LED DLP's, and 60" Kuro's. (they are close enough in size IMO)
Close enough in size for comparing everything other than price, yes. But the prices still jump almost exponentially when you start looking at plasmas and LCD's larger than 60". And in my case, since I already had and was used to a 65" screen (my previous set was a 65" Mits CRT RPTV), it would have been tough to drop down to 60".

I viewed a 65LV close to a 65835 and I didn't see a whole lotta difference.
I almost bought a 65835 last year before finally deciding to go with an lcd, but I liked the 835. Last April, Amazon had the 65835 for 2K and some change. The 835 gave good value for the money, LV, no way.
I paid a decent amount less than that for my 835 and figure it's good enough to keep me happy for several years while I wait to see what new technologies come out, prices drop on large plasmas, black levels improve, etc.

Close enough in size for comparing everything other than price, yes. But the prices still jump almost exponentially when you start looking at plasmas and LCD's larger than 60". And in my case, since I already had and was used to a 65" screen (my previous set was a 65" Mits CRT RPTV), it would have been tough to drop down to 60".
In that case your money is best spent on a Mits Diamond or a Sammy LED DLP rather than one of these.

In that case your money is best spent on a Mits Diamond or a Sammy LED DLP rather than one of these.

I think they will run from any comparison with LED DLP, which essentially has almost all the same positive characteristics (NO bulb replacement, no color wheel, low power etc...) but LED DLP is extremely reasonably priced.

Really at the same price Laser might have a marketing advantage over LED (because it is a frikken laser), but performance is nearly identical. With a much higher price, laser DLP seems seriously pointless.

I think they will run from any comparison with LED DLP, which essentially has almost all the same positive characteristics (NO bulb replacement, no color wheel, low power etc...) but LED DLP is extremely reasonably priced.

Really at the same price Laser might have a marketing advantage over LED (because it is a frikken laser), but performance is nearly identical. With a much higher price, laser DLP seems seriously pointless.
I agree. Hell, even I think the laser sounds cool. Too bad it isn't.

I think they will run from any comparison with LED DLP, which essentially has almost all the same positive characteristics (NO bulb replacement, no color wheel, low power etc...) but LED DLP is extremely reasonably priced.

Really at the same price Laser might have a marketing advantage over LED (because it is a frikken laser), but performance is nearly identical. With a much higher price, laser DLP seems seriously pointless.

And just think if Sammy would have put a bit more into the LED , like DC4,better build, etc., it would have been the LV killer.

And just think if Sammy would have put a bit more into the LED , like DC4,better build, etc., it would have been the LV killer.

It was and still is...easily.

It was and still is...easily.


Samsung could have completely blown MITS out of thr dlp market, but either couldn't make enough profit on dlp or saw the future and dlp(with or without laesr) isn't in it:rolleyes:

Samsung could have completely blown MITS out of thr dlp market, but either couldn't make enough profit on dlp or saw the future and dlp(with or without laesr) isn't in it:rolleyes:

Samsung was, from a market share perspective, blowing Mitsubishi out of the water. From the start, Samsung bought market share with lower pricing. They paid a price in terms of reliability, and this hurt DLP in general. Mitsubishi, other than the disaster of the V26 chassis capacitors, found RP to be a viable business to be in, and sees the opportunity as the primary player in that market.

The bet that Mitsubishi is making is that the market share may drop in RP, but with the dropout of other vendors their sales will stay up and even perhaps even increase, particularly with emphasis on larger sizes with a high size/$ ratio.

lcaillo, I am with you.

I did say it is a bet. Who knows if it will play out in their favor. They have not been exactly clever in terms of recognizing their market position in recent years and taking advantage of their potential.

You should see a modified 70” XBR2 with 50%-70% lower black level, increased contrast and corrected gamma, Laservue is not in that league.

Did your modified SXRD eliminate SSE?

Did your modified SXRD eliminate SSE?

Just about, if I display a full brightness white of pain color I can just see a little SSE in small area in the centre of the screen, the rest of the screen is SSE free. With normal video SSE is effectively eliminated at my 9’ viewing distance.

There is a direct relationship between screen brightness and the visibility of SSE. Dropping peak output from around 100ftL (standard) to about 25ftL (modified) has a dramatic effect.
The 70” XBR2 in standards form is a lot less prone to SSE then the 60” XBR2, I am not sure it it’s just because the 60” is brighter or other reasons, I would have to do the same modifications and take readings of both to know for sure but all the 60” sets I have seen exhibited very noticeable SSE.

I did say it is a bet. Who knows if it will play out in their favor. They have not been exactly clever in terms of recognizing their market position in recent years and taking advantage of their potential.


MITS management leaves much to be desired:rolleyes:

MITS management leaves much to be desired:rolleyes:

i think its more about retailers not making the floor space available.
they know that "flat panel" is the buzz word and they cater to that cliental.
The masses roll in to buy the flat panels and all they see if small TVs stack across a wall.

If they knew they could get a 60" for just over $1k and a 65" for a couple hundred more, they would probably never buy that tiny 42".

Is it mits fault? sure.
But they are fighting an uphill battle against major players that are putting huge money into product recognition.

Mits seems to be moving more niche market and the laservue seems to be the spearhead of that. Maximize revenue and stay in the game until the flat panel craze passes and the next tech emerges.

Mitsubishi marketing and management has always been ineffective at selling their "story." They have wanted to be the first in technologies, yet not sold that fact effectively, nor communicated what that means nor managed expectations. The LaserVue product is a perfect example of this. They have also not cooperated with dealers, servicers, reviewers, and calibration people to make the most of the products that they have. At times they have had exceptional products that could have been sold much more effectively and with less arrogance on the part of Mitsubishi, maintained a core of dealers loyal to the line. Instead they have chased the Joe Six-Pack market that Samsung bought out from under them and pissed off the very people who might be able to market a niche product.

I have been dealing with them for three decades in sales and service, and have rarely seen more arrogance, inneptitude, and lack of marketing savy from a company with such potential. Well, maybe JVC...

Mitsubishi marketing and management has always been ineffective at selling their "story." They have wanted to be the first in technologies, yet not sold that fact effectively, nor communicated what that means nor managed expectations. The LaserVue product is a perfect example of this. They have also not cooperated with dealers, servicers, reviewers, and calibration people to make the most of the products that they have. At times they have had exceptional products that could have been sold much more effectively and with less arrogance on the part of Mitsubishi, maintained a core of dealers loyal to the line. Instead they have chased the Joe Six-Pack market that Samsung bought out from under them and pissed off the very people who might be able to market a niche product.

I have been dealing with them for three decades in sales and service, and have rarely seen more arrogance, inneptitude, and lack of marketing savy from a company with such potential. Well, maybe JVC...


After waiting....waiting...waiting for LV, it finally comes out and underwhelms to the nth degree. Then pulled after a short time with little info given to the public as to why. Not comforting for the few people who shelled out money for this lemon.:rolleyes:

Why would you call it a lemon? The people who have it seem to be mostly pleased and I have heard of no multiple problems with it. Mitsubishi did not manage expectations for the product very well, but anyone paying attention to new technologies over the years should not have such high expectations for a first generation product. There seems to be more criticism among those who have not bought the product than those who have. Hardly justifies calling it a lemon, IMO.

Why would you call it a lemon? The people who have it seem to be mostly pleased and I have heard of no multiple problems with it. Mitsubishi did not manage expectations for the product very well, but anyone paying attention to new technologies over the years should not have such high expectations for a first generation product. There seems to be more criticism among those who have not bought the product than those who have. Hardly justifies calling it a lemon, IMO.

Yes you are right!
I have my Mom and Dad has LV. The color and depth is WOW. The store that they got it from did do a calibration when they drop it off at no charge. My Dad said it took them about 1.5 to 2 hours to do. My Mom and Dad all so have a WD-52628 and love it. But the LV just kills it in PQ.
I have a MITS. WD-62825 and also a 65835 and my 65835 Blows my old 62825 out of the water in PQ and Looks.
My Mom and Dad has had the LV since OCT/2008 and NO Problems at all.

Just My input.

Yes you are right!
I have my Mom and Dad has LV. The color and depth is WOW. The store that they got it from did do a calibration when they drop it off at no charge. My Dad said it took them about 1.5 to 2 hours to do. My Mom and Dad all so have a WD-52628 and love it. But the LV just kills it in PQ.
I have a MITS. WD-62825 and also a 65835 and my 65835 Blows my old 62825 out of the water in PQ and Looks.
My Mom and Dad has had the LV since OCT/2008 and NO Problems at all.

Just My input.


I've seen 3 different LV's now and I'm totally underwhelmed by a product that was hyped to be "the plasma killer" , then delivered so little. I viewed one next to the excellent 65835 and didn't see much difference except in the price. Is it even going to be brought back???

I've seen 3 different LV's now and I'm totally underwhelmed by a product that was hyped to be "the plasma killer" , then delivered so little. I viewed one next to the excellent 65835 and didn't see much difference except in the price. Is it even going to be brought back???
How many products actually live up to all of the BS marketing hype? Very few. But again, the 1st gen LaserVue was/is not intended to be the end of the line on performance or pricing. How about giving it just a little bit of a chance to get to the 2nd generation and improve on both pricing and performance?

Give this some thought - LCD's have had a reputation for having less than stellar black levels. Some of the recent LCD's have been getting reviewed as having nearly reference black levels and the prices pretty much decrease with every new generation. I'm not saying that LCD is now perfect, but where would we be if we canceled every product category where the first generation was less than perfect or was too expensive? Heck even the 9G Kuro plasmas don't have perfect black levels.

No argument there, I just feel that the LaserVue is getting somewhat unfair treatment in price comparisons when being compared to smaller screen sizes as it's not a fair comparison.

IMO the real unfair comparison is the one Mitsubishi tries to present comparing their DLP rear projector to large Plasma instead the natural competitor, other DLP rear projectors. Projectors have always been less than equally sized large PDPs/LCDs.

When you do the real and VERY FAIR DLP to DLP comparision, it is obvious how insanely overpriced this is. Yeah new technology generally costs more, but why would you actually pay that huge premium unless it also gets you some additional value.

Clearly your money is better spent on the Extremely similar LED DLPs. They do practically everything the same as Laser DLP for 1/3 the price.

IMO Rear projection may be nearing extinction, if LED-DLP didn't set the world on fire, I don't see how Laser-DLP will. I have yet to hear a single convincing argument. The only thing I am aware of that Laser DLP has is wider Gamut than LED, but LED is already wider in Gamut than sources, so this is largely a moot point.


Give this some thought - LCD's have had a reputation for having less than stellar black levels. Some of the recent LCD's have been getting reviewed as having nearly reference black levels and the prices pretty much decrease with every new generation.

Other LED local dimming arrays or ridiculous dynamic contrast schemes? Shut off the backlight on a black screen and call it a million to one contrast and 0.00 black?

Real ANSI contrast of LCD panels is largely stagnant. So if you have it set for about 300 nits you might get 0.10 black levels. I haven't seen any evidence of this changing. Dynamic Contrast I view largely as marketing gimmickry. Local dimming LED arrays tend to introduce a new set of artifacts and be very expensive. But at least it will make black bars less obtrusive...

One of the biggest benefits that I see of the LV over their lamp-based DLPs is the lack of rainbows and I would pay a bit more for that benefit, but no more than $500 more, as is the case with the Samsung LEDs versus their lamp based counterparts.

When you do the real and VERY FAIR DLP to DLP comparision, it is obvious how insanely overpriced this is. Yeah new technology generally costs more, but why would you actually pay that huge premium unless it also gets you some additional value.
I wouldn't pay the premium, but that's not really the point. Look at how expensive the first DLP rear projectors were ~7 years ago. When I bought my Mits Diamond Series WS-65909 CRT RPTV around that time the MSRP was around $6500. The comparably sized new wizzbang DLP RPTV they had just come out with was around $15000. Assuming they stick with it, the LaserVue WILL come down in price - it's just a question of how fast.

Other LED local dimming arrays or ridiculous dynamic contrast schemes? Shut off the backlight on a black screen and call it a million to one contrast and 0.00 black?
You either missed or decided to conveniently ignore my point. It's just not reasonable in most cases to condemn the first generation of a new technology. Perhaps LCD was a bad example because you obviously have no love for that technology either :rolleyes:. I'm not particularly fond of LCD's myself, but I think we all have to admit that they have come a long way since they first came out even if they're still far from perfect.

How many products actually live up to all of the BS marketing hype? Very few. But again, the 1st gen LaserVue was/is not intended to be the end of the line on performance or pricing. How about giving it just a little bit of a chance to get to the 2nd generation and improve on both pricing and performance?

Give this some thought - LCD's have had a reputation for having less than stellar black levels. Some of the recent LCD's have been getting reviewed as having nearly reference black levels and the prices pretty much decrease with every new generation. I'm not saying that LCD is now perfect, but where would we be if we canceled every product category where the first generation was less than perfect or was too expensive? Heck even the 9G Kuro plasmas don't have perfect black levels.


Yea, you make a pretty good point about letting LV succeed. I just believe that MITS waited too long to get this technology/product to the marketplace and now pulling it until later this year doesn't bode well for LV.

DLP has a very limited contrast ratio; a laser light source cannot do anything about that.
Laservue is a marketing gimmick with no chance of being a high end display solution.

One of the biggest benefits that I see of the LV over their lamp-based DLPs is the lack of rainbows and I would pay a bit more for that benefit, but no more than $500 more, as is the case with the Samsung LEDs versus their lamp based counterparts.

The sensitive might still have a problem:
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/3110/mitsubishi-l65-a90-65-inch-laservue-rear-projection-hdtv-test-bench-page3.html

"However, the color “rainbows” that can sometimes be seen on sequential color displays as you move your eyes rapidly to one side were quite evident."


You either missed or decided to conveniently ignore my point. It's just not reasonable in most cases to condemn the first generation of a new technology. Perhaps LCD was a bad example because you obviously have no love for that technology either :rolleyes:. I'm not particularly fond of LCD's myself, but I think we all have to admit that they have come a long way since they first came out even if they're still far from perfect.

What I have no love for, is ridiculous hype bordering on lies that we are fed by manufacturers of any technology. Most of it simply serves to lie about the weaknesses of their technology rather than highlight its strengths. Or they make up strengths that are actually weaknesses and hype them. On the LCD front there are many:

178 degree viewing angles. Essentially, This would be perfection, but I have to sit in the sweet spot or my already weak black levels and contrast go down the toilet. Which of course goes hand in hand with:
50 000:1 to 1000000:1 "Dynamic Contrast". Again trying to hide the fact that real (ANSI) contrast has gone nowhere.
Wider and wider gamut. 100%, 200%, pretty soon only insects will see some of these shades, but this is harping on something we don't need when sources are much more restrained.

And in this case. They hyped LASER TV as some kind of new magical technique that would surpass everything. The company behind the lasers mentioned nothing about DLP or rear projection (which is what this is), and Mitsubishi tries to market against high end plasma/LCD, when comparing it to other DLP rear projectors make a lot more sense, because that is what it is.

As far as shooting down a technology before it develops, the technology here is DLP rear projector and it is fully developed. The Laser is just an insanely expensive light source, with equally out-sized hype. LED already does what Laser does for a fraction of the price and a fraction of the hype.

DLP has a very limited contrast ratio; a laser light source cannot do anything about that.
Laservue is a marketing gimmick with no chance of being a high end display solution.

"Very limited" is overstating the point quite a bit. You can get quite good contrast ratios with DLP. Using colimated light with relatively little diffraction before the screen and that can be modulated more rapidly could certainly offer the potential for improving the contrast ratio. Whether they pull that off and will end up with a cost effective product that is reliable and can be mass produced is the question.

I guess that puts us at the point that we have been for months...speculating until we can actually get hands on with the product and until we see the second generation, if it ever comes out. Like I have been saying, we'll see when we see.

Does anyone know when Mitsubishi will have their line show?

If you don't hear about laser then then you'll know it's all over.

According to Gary Merson, HDGuru, the new line will be introduced to the salespeople sometime in April. Icaillo, any thoughts? Thank you.

My thoughts have been made plain many times. I am waiting to see what happens and to get my hands (and meter) on one of them. The last I heard from anyone at Mitsubishi, production was ceased and expected to resume in March due to a problem with a part from one of the vendors, not named nor described specifically. Nothing new yet.

Easy question for you guys....

I've got a Sammy 61" LED DLP, and my brother is looking for something in the 72" range. Does Mitsu make anything that is purportedly better than the 67" Sammy LED DLP I've recommended to my brother? It's around $1800, but my brother can afford more. Suggestions? Is the price-performance ratio as good as the 67" Sammy? Thanks

Easy question for you guys....

I've got a Sammy 61" LED DLP, and my brother is looking for something in the 72" range. Does Mitsu make anything that is purportedly better than the 67" Sammy LED DLP I've recommended to my brother? It's around $1800, but my brother can afford more. Suggestions? Is the price-performance ratio as good as the 67" Sammy? Thanks


The Diamond series MITS are nice. I saw a 65835 next to a the 65LV set and there was little difference. They have a 73835 and it is on Amazon for 3.4K.

"Very limited" is overstating the point quite a bit. You can get quite good contrast ratios with DLP.


It would seem our standards as to want constitutes “quite good” duffer significantly, I consider 40,000:1 contrast and more importantly a black level of 0.001ftl to be quite good, still not good enough however. Laservue is not even remotely close to that level of performance, the existing model can’t even compete with much older rear projection displays.

Too lazy to backread 100+ pages....

what's the general consensus on this TV? Not worth it for the price? Promising technology? Pure hype?

Just found a few 67A750's for $1650. Wish I'd jumped on that instead of my 61". Trying to convince my brother to snag one before they're gone.

Too lazy to backread 100+ pages....

what's the general consensus on this TV? Not worth it for the price? Promising technology? Pure hype?
The few people who have actually bought one and posted on AVS (see the owner's thread) seem to be pretty happy so far - one guy has been having problems with his. Otherwise, opinions have been running the gammut with most leaning towards the first generation pricing being out of line with what you're getting. Some of us are expecting that the next generation will be priced much closer to the Diamond series DLP's while others have decided that it's all doom and gloom, Mitsubishi is evil, RPTV is dead, and LaserVue has no hope. I think that roughly sums up the thread so far.

Too lazy to backread 100+ pages....

what's the general consensus on this TV? Not worth it for the price? Promising technology? Pure hype?

A few people who bought them may like them. Then again, if you paid 7K or anything close to that for a dlp, would you admit you didn't like it?? I've seen 3 different 65LV's and have been totally underwhelmed. In fact, one was next to the MITS Diamond series 65835 and I couldn't tell much difference. For the price, go for the 835. It is a nice set and is priced very reasonably.

I think the Mitsubishi line show will be the final verdict on whether rear projection TV survives or not--I think it will survive one more year.

Next year will be either the final year or the death of rear projection.

A few people who bought them may like them. Then again, if you paid 7K or anything close to that for a dlp, would you admit you didn't like it?? I've seen 3 different 65LV's and have been totally underwhelmed. In fact, one was next to the MITS Diamond series 65835 and I couldn't tell much difference. For the price, go for the 835. It is a nice set and is priced very reasonably.
If I paid ~$7k for a TV and was unhappy with it, you can be sure that I would admit it here and get my money back. I doubt most people would buy any TV (especially one with new, untested technologies) at or near that price without some sort of decent return policy. Your comments after seeing the LV suggests that if the 2nd generation is priced in the same ballpark as the current Diamond line that they would likely be a good option. Unfortunately, a lot of us haven't had the luxury of even seeing a LV set yet which makes it kind of difficult to judge the set regardless of how expensive it is.

If I paid ~$7k for a TV and was unhappy with it, you can be sure that I would admit it here and get my money back. I doubt most people would buy any TV (especially one with new, untested technologies) at or near that price without some sort of decent return policy. Your comments after seeing the LV suggests that if the 2nd generation is priced in the same ballpark as the current Diamond line that they would likely be a good option. Unfortunately, a lot of us haven't had the luxury of even seeing a LV set yet which makes it kind of difficult to judge the set regardless of how expensive it is.

I agree with that assessment. IF the 65LV was around 2K, which 65835 can be had, I would think it would be a good value. However, I do know people who won't admit they didn't get a good deal on something and will continue to defend that bad selection even after it has become apparent that they made a bad choice.

However, I do know people who won't admit they didn't get a good deal on something and will continue to defend that bad selection even after it has become apparent that they made a bad choice.
Absolutely, just as there are plenty of people who will slam something despite having no first hand experience with it (such as many in this thread) ;). I'm trying to take a neutral stance on LaserVue for now - I tend to think the price is too high, but since I haven't been able to see one in person it's not fair to be overly negative about it. I do find it more than a bit surprising that it hasn't been possible to see one here in the Boston area - it's not like I live in some out of the way small market.

I think the Mitsubishi line show will be the final verdict on whether rear projection TV survives or not--I think it will survive one more year.

Next year will be either the final year or the death of rear projection.

The problem with this prediction is that I simply don't see either plasma or LCD flat-panel filling the 65+ inch segment anytime soon. True, this is not a large market but there is room for one or two lines to be profitable.

Under 60 inches I agree with you. LED-lit LCD seems to be the coming tide, side-lit for mass market, local dimming for elite sets. LEDs have basic science on their side, and ultimately that is what almost always wins out.

The problem with this prediction is that I simply don't see either plasma or LCD flat-panel filling the 65+ inch segment anytime soon. True, this is not a large market but there is room for one or two lines to be profitable.

Under 60 inches I agree with you. LED-lit LCD seems to be the coming tide, side-lit for mass market, local dimming for elite sets. LEDs have basic science on their side, and ultimately that is what almost always wins out.

I believe you are right about the 65+ market, but MITS already has a nice product with their 65 + 73 835's. And the price on those models are reasonable unlike the ridiculous LV sets pricing.

I believe you are right about the 65+ market, but MITS already has a nice product with their 65 + 73 835's. And the price on those models are reasonable unlike the ridiculous LV sets pricing.
Ugh. Which part of first generation is it that people don't get??? It's EXTREMELY likely that the 2nd generation LaserVue, assuming they stick with it, will be much less expensive. Look at what happened with DLP RPTV pricing 6 or so years ago - the first model Mits sold cost $15,000 when the equivalent sized CRT RPTV cost around $6500 for the Diamond Series model. Look at DLP RPTV pricing today (for everything other than LaserVue).

Or look at Toshiba's LCOS--LaserVue might be another stillborn fiasco.

Just got my new issue of S&V listed as April/May 2009. On page 5 is a full page ad for MITS LARGE SCREEN televisions. Notice that in the entire ad the word LASER or LASERVUE IS NOT MENTIONED. The ad refers to the tv's as Mitsubishi Home Theater TV's and lists the range from 60 to 73. In the very fine print on the bottom of the ad DLP is mentioned but no LASERVUE. Then turn to page 34 and in a section listing S&V's Best , there is LASERVUE showing the L65-A90 with Feb/Mar 2009 still indicating $6,999. Feb,March?? We are almost into April and in a magazine that is the April/May issue -NO LASERVUE ADS??? Either LASERVUE is D.O.A. or MITS has some of the WORST marketing people in the history of the electronics industry. If they are trying to bury this product/technology they sure are doing a good job:rolleyes:

LV IS a stillborn fiasco and DLP is dead. With flat screens much cheaper now, there is no reason to go with a monster set instead of a nice plasma or LCD. DLP lovers only still exist because they love their own set but ask any wife which one she wants and the answer is obvious. BTW, I have a Mitsubishi 73929 and looking forward to replace it with a 65" plasma.

My girlfriend doesn't tell me what TV I can buy--sorry if your's or your wife does.

DLP remains a better technology in some ways, and the only technology for affordable large screens--LV notwithstanding.

LV IS a stillborn fiasco and DLP is dead. With flat screens much cheaper now, there is no reason to go with a monster set instead of a nice plasma or LCD. DLP lovers only still exist because they love their own set but ask any wife which one she wants and the answer is obvious. BTW, I have a Mitsubishi 73929 and looking forward to replace it with a 65" plasma.
I'm pretty sure the 65" and larger DLP's are still a lot less expensive than any 65" or larger plasma or LCD (ignoring the first generation LaserVue pricing). Have you seriously taken a close look at the current DLP sets? Aside from having large screens (which we obviously want if we're buying a 65" or larger TV), they aren't difficult at all to work with unless you want to hang them on the wall. If you're going to put them on a stand, there's really no compelling reason to go with plasma or LCD as far as the physical dimensions go. The DLP sets also weigh a lot less than comparably sized plasmas and LCD's, don't have any chance of burn-in, have no motion lag, etc. Did I mention they also cost less? Each technology option has advantages, so pick the one that best fits your priorities. For me, DLP is the clear winner for now.

As far as the wife factor goes, a buddy at work has been trying to sell his wife on a 50" Panasonic plasma for a while now. You know what the hold up is? They're (relatively) expensive. He could get a larger DLP for less money, and I suspect his wife might go for it, but he's got his heart set on plasma. So he continues to wait for the prices to drop more so he can get the green light.

LV IS a stillborn fiasco and DLP is dead. With flat screens much cheaper now, there is no reason to go with a monster set instead of a nice plasma or LCD. DLP lovers only still exist because they love their own set but ask any wife which one she wants and the answer is obvious. BTW, I have a Mitsubishi 73929 and looking forward to replace it with a 65" plasma.

My girlfriend doesn't tell me what TV I can buy--sorry if your's or your wife does.

DLP remains a better technology in some ways, and the only technology for affordable large screens--LV notwithstanding.
+1

So, slimoli, please provide me with a link to a 73 or there about LCD or plasma that doesn't cost an arm and a leg. I bought my 73835 because I'd had a 60 Sony previously and I wanted bigger without the hassles of a FP.

When I went looking I couldn't find a 60+ LCD or plasma for the full retail of my Mits, never mind the price I actually paid for it.

And one other thing, in my house I don't ask the wife what I can buy, it arrives and she likes it or lumps it. And on this instance, she likes as the screen looks a lot better than the outgoing one.

Maybe you should step up and be the man in your house....

Seggers

Sometimes being a man doesn't have anything to do with always getting what you want, in fact, it's usually the opposite. Sometimes guys think because they bring home the bacon they can do what they want and the 'ol lady will just have to deal with it. Sometimes guys get divorced as well.

LV IS a stillborn fiasco and DLP is dead. With flat screens much cheaper now, there is no reason to go with a monster set instead of a nice plasma or LCD. DLP lovers only still exist because they love their own set but ask any wife which one she wants and the answer is obvious....

This must be a troll, right? :o I've never quite understood why people are so anxious to see things die. The Twain quote comes to mind: "The rumors of my death are greatly exaggerated."

No reasons for a "monster" set (monster being defined as: "bigger than I need)? I can think of a few easy, non-technical ones:You have a BIG room and need a bigger screenYou want a lower carbon footprint - DLP sets are dramatically lower power and run dramatically cooler than plasma or LED sets.

I agree that RP is perhaps nearing end-of-life, particularly in smaller sizes. I think DLP still has some life left in it, particularly in front-projectors. The technology has existed for some time to build fairly thin RP sets (6" inches) - I don't know why you don't see more of them.

FYI, I have a 125" screen with a DLP projector in the HT, 55" RP in the den, a 50" plasma in the game room, and 26" LED in the office, and various older CRT's around the house. They all look great. But when I want to watch sports or movies, there's no question where I watch - on the 125" screen.

So, I have one of everything, and I like them all. I worry about burn-in on everything but the DLP. I worry about convergence on the CRT's (and fix it constantly on one of them). I might worry about bulb life on the DLP, except that I'll likely replace the projector long before the 2000 hour bulb life - 5-6 years at the current rate of use.

So, I guess I must be one of the "DLP lovers". I still exist cause I haven't died, yet. ;)

-Reid

Obviously I wasn't talking about FP since this is not the subject of the thread. I am very surprised to be called a troll and unless you are blind or don't follow the news, it's very esay to figure that many retail stores no longer carry DLPs with the exception of few Samsung and Mitsubishi. The Magnolia nearby does not carry ANY DLP. There is no new DLP model since 2 years ago, isn't this enough to say DLP is dead ?

As far as the wife making the decision, this is pure BS. A couple has to talk before deciding for anything and my comment was because wives normally go for the best looking set. Show me a 65" plasma for 4K and a 65" DLP for 2K and I go with the plasma. I wouldn't go if the plasma was 7k and even if there is a LV for 4K I would still prefer the plasma at the same price.

Finally, I am not anxious to see anything die. I am actually very sad to see Pioneer and others leaving our market . DLP is dead as a RP technology and it is a fact , period.

Obviously I wasn't talking about FP since this is not the subject of the thread. I am very surprised to be called a troll and unless you are blind or don't follow the news, it's very esay to figure that many retail stores no longer carry DLPs with the exception of few Samsung and Mitsubishi. The Magnolia nearby does not carry ANY DLP.

Umm....that is because Samsung and Mitsubishi offer the only models still available. You are anti-RPTV, yet you are surprised that you were called a troll for being in this portion of the forum? ...really?

There is no new DLP model since 2 years ago, isn't this enough to say DLP is dead ?
Where are you even getting this bad information?

As far as the wife making the decision, this is pure BS. A couple has to talk before deciding for anything and my comment was because wives normally go for the best looking set.

As of right now, you are currently in the lead for "Most Sexist Post of 2009"...congrats.

jrcorwin

get a life!

jrcorwin

get a life!
Thank you for your contribution. :rolleyes:

It doesn't even look like you own a plasma, but a Mits DLP instead. Are you a masochist?

Thank you for your contribution. :rolleyes:

It doesn't even look like you own a plasma, but a Mits DLP instead. Are you a masochist?

I have a Panasonic 50" plasma (old model) , a Samsung 40" LCD and a Mitsubishi 73927. The Mitsu picture is very soft and I only use it to watch Bluray. With a new bulb it's fine but after 500 hours it starts to fade. As I said, I'm looking forward to replace it and the new Panasonic 65" is so far the best candidate when it becomes available 3rd quarter.

I am not "anti-DLP", as I said in previous posts there are still people who love a gramophone and hate SACDs and I'm not one of them.

jrcorwin

get a life!

Boy is his dad going to be sore when he finds out that Jr has usurped jrcorwin's AVS Forum account. :rolleyes:

What would a 75-inch front projector look like if you paid the same for it as a 73-inch Mits DLP?

DLP KILLS in the price/performance category. Nothing even close. The two best sets on the market are the Sammy 67A750 and the Mits 73835 if you wanna go big....and I can get steals on both. Just bought the 61A750, but might move up to the 67A750 if I can make the numbers work. If LCD's could be purchased for $2K or less for a 60+" decent screen, I'd be tempted, but the power consumption on those babies is pretty expensive. LED/OLED is definitely the wave of the future.

What would a 75-inch front projector look like if you paid the same for it as a 73-inch Mits DLP?

About 2" bigger, and about 1" deep? :) Sorry, I couldn't resist.

The answer is "it depends". A lot depends on the screen material. But in general you'll get a much wider viewing angle with very little brightness dropoff off-axis either horizontally or vertically.

One of the drawbacks of FP is that they really don't work well with a Wii - you get a great big shadow right in the middle of the screen. :p

To be honest, if the choice really was 73 RP vs 75 FP, I'd probably my go with RP - much easier installation. In my case, the choice was either the biggest RP at the time - 73" - or 125" FP for about the same price. No contest in a light controlled room.

-Reid

No contest in a light controlled room.
That and setup are the 2 biggest drawbacks of going FP. Setting up a FP in my room would be extra fun - the room has a vaulted ceiling, a paladium window on one side, a big double window on one end, and a large entry way into the next room on the other side with a sliding door near the entry way. There's no reasonable way for me to get enough light control for FP to work when it's bright out and mounting a projector to the ceiling would be a nightmare. Meanwhile, my rear projection DLP works great - even during the brightest parts of the day it's still watchable even if I don't pull all the blinds on the windows. But don't get me wrong - I'd LOVE to have a 100" or larger screen.

I'm in the market to replace 65' rear caro box. Looking at everything out there, they all have there strenghts and weaknesses. After spending alot of time viewing different sets one thing I learned is it is hard to down size even 5" no mater how good the picture looks. Sets that looked great in one place didn't look so great in other store's. Iguess it depends on the feed. What ever set they want to sell is hooked up to blu ray 1080p while the others have store feed.At least where I live. Down to 60 in pioneer elite kuros, Panasonic 6o" 850u or mits 73835. as I said before all have there strenghts and weaknesses. But if laser vue did come out and the backs were better in 73" at around 4 or 5 I would be on it. More bang for the buck. Just my opinion.

Mitsubishi affirms that LaserVue HDTV production is back on.

After Mitsubishi suddenly and unexpectedly suspended production of its flagship LaserVue HDTV in early February, many took the liberty of believing that the end was nigh for this extremely high-end set (given the not-exactly-booming economy). We contacted Mitsubishi in order to follow up, and today we've received direct confirmation that the LaserVue is indeed "back in production." In other words, the supply channels are all moving smoothly again, and whatever caused the issue to begin with truly was simply a snag and not a foreshadowing of the set's death. Too bad this thing is still up near seven grand in many places -- after seeing one in action, it's hard to look at any other technology the same way.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/24/mitsubishi-affirms-that-laservue-hdtv-production-is-back-on/

Mitsubishi affirms that LaserVue HDTV production is back on.

After Mitsubishi suddenly and unexpectedly suspended production of its flagship LaserVue HDTV in early February, many took the liberty of believing that the end was nigh for this extremely high-end set (given the not-exactly-booming economy). We contacted Mitsubishi in order to follow up, and today we've received direct confirmation that the LaserVue is indeed "back in production." In other words, the supply channels are all moving smoothly again, and whatever caused the issue to begin with truly was simply a snag and not a foreshadowing of the set's death. Too bad this thing is still up near seven grand in many places -- after seeing one in action, it's hard to look at any other technology the same way.

http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/24/mitsubishi-affirms-that-laservue-hdtv-production-is-back-on/


I've seeen three in action including one next to the MITS 65835 and I didn't see much of a difference. I was underwhelmed by LV and at 7K, it is going nowhere. Now, maybe at 3K without competition from their very own fine Diamond series dlp's, LV might have a chance, at least until lcd and plasma get into the affordable 65 range.

I've seeen three in action including one next to the MITS 65835 and I didn't see much of a difference. I was underwhelmed by LV and at 7K, it is going nowhere. Now, maybe at 3K without competition from their very own fine Diamond series dlp's, LV might have a chance, at least until lcd and plasma get into the affordable 65 range.

Hi I haven't seen one yet. Just wondering was there any difference in the blacks vs the 835 if you can recall. thanks

Hi I haven't seen one yet. Just wondering was there any difference in the blacks vs the 835 if you can recall. thanks

Yes, I would say the LV blacks seemed to me to be better, but not off the map better. And certainly not 5K better.

Yes, I would say the LV blacks seemed to me to be better, but not off the map better. And certainly not 5K better.

Just wish there was somthing out there that would have it all .5k for 60" pioneer elite kuro141f seems alot for a set they don't even make any more. 5k for panasonic 65" ? at least it's the same size I have now but I wasn't that crazy about the whites on it and to me the picture wasn't that much better than the mits 73835. and the Mits was only around 3k but the whole bulb thing . any thoughts anyone

Here is one thought. IF, MITS intends on trying to make LV work, they probably will have to quit making the bulb sets. Why would they continue to produce an excellent Diamond series 65 and 73 that is going to compete with their LV? The 65835 I viewed was an excellent set and not that far off in quality compared to the LV, especially for the price. Since Samsung is bowing out MITS is basically competing with themselves if they continue to market the bulbs and the LV. Then again, their marketing strategy and just the whole way in which LV has been handled makes you wonder if they can do anything right??

WEll my 65' cargo box died saturday night. Pulled the trigger on Panasonic 65" 850. Will continue to read this tread. Wish I could have seen the laser vue. Thanks to all here

Apparently on the 6th, 7th and 8th of April, Mitzi is having a show for it's dealers on what's coming out in the near future. Word has it that a NEW 82" DLP will be shown (no price or release date as yet) I should know by the 9th what's coming down the pike. For you LASERVUE fanatics (which I am one) the 65" is shipping again... and people are standing in line at Totons to get one. (there is definitely a long waiting list) so far twenty have been shipped and are to arrive later this week. The 73" LV is still alive and talk is early this fall... hopefully more will be revealed next week at this show. And for all you nay sayers the reason production stopped was because a critical part that runs the production line broke and had to be custom built and not because of some critical flaw in the design or something of that nature.

PS. Long Live LASER!!!!:D

Well, that's good news for all of us, including us Sammy LED DLP owners--Long live competition and free markets!!

The 82 inch monster, was it a LV, or bulb based DLP unit.

82", nice replacement for a 'small' 73".... :D

Seggers

Well, that's good news for all of us, including us Sammy LED DLP owners--Long live competition and free markets!!
The 82" is a bulb based.

The 82" is a bulb based.

That is a stratgey I just don't understand. Why continue to make excellent bulb based large screen sets that will undoubtedly take sales away from the LV sets that they are trying to get off the ground? Unless their strategy is to make LV a niche product, which I don't believe can be successful long term, just what can be their thinking? Especially in this economy in which people who could have afforded a 7K set in the past, now will be lucky to afford a 2K set, if that.

Is it a 100% certainty that Mitsubishi will indeed have a line show in April?

If they don't does that hint that Mitsubishi might really be getting out of the DLP business?

Apparently on the 6th, 7th and 8th of April, Mitzi is having a show for it's dealers on what's coming out in the near future. Word has it that a NEW 82" DLP will be shown (no price or release date as yet) I should know by the 9th what's coming down the pike. For you LASERVUE fanatics (which I am one) the 65" is shipping again... and people are standing in line at Totons to get one. (there is definitely a long waiting list) so far twenty have been shipped and are to arrive later this week. The 73" LV is still alive and talk is early this fall... hopefully more will be revealed next week at this show. And for all you nay sayers the reason production stopped was because a critical part that runs the production line broke and had to be custom built and not because of some critical flaw in the design or something of that nature.

PS. Long Live LASER!!!!:D

Any updates on new DLP models?

Apparently on the 6th, 7th and 8th of April, Mitzi is having a show for it's dealers on what's coming out in the near future. Word has it that a NEW 82" DLP will be shown (no price or release date as yet) I should know by the 9th what's coming down the pike. For you LASERVUE fanatics (which I am one) the 65" is shipping again... and people are standing in line at Totons to get one. (there is definitely a long waiting list) so far twenty have been shipped and are to arrive later this week. The 73" LV is still alive and talk is early this fall... hopefully more will be revealed next week at this show. And for all you nay sayers the reason production stopped was because a critical part that runs the production line broke and had to be custom built and not because of some critical flaw in the design or something of that nature.

PS. Long Live LASER!!!!:D

That is good news, but are their prices still ridiculous?

I just bought a 67" LED because Laservues have not lived up to anything. My next TV will prolly be an OLED in the distant future when they are the same size as my 67 or bigger.

Any updates on the new DLPs or Mitsubishi's dealer show?

Any updates on the new DLPs or Mitsubishi's dealer show?

Shortly after you posted this - I received an update on Mitsubishi's announcements. I haven't even had time to read it myself, but here it is anyway.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6650124.html

Cheers,
Spence

Nothing new as far as the LV is concerned, not even an announcement of a larger display (big mistake IMO). The 82" will appeal to those who have the space, specially with the price below 5K even for the top line. The flat screens look interesting but limited to 52" will face strong competition from Samsung and Sony.

I want to see the 82" !

I think the most interesting thing I gleened from the writeup (and the one at EngadgetHD) is that the 837 series is featuring something that they've labeled "ISFccc Advanced Video Adjustments". I know that Mitsubishi has gotten a knock in the past for not playing nice with ISF calibrators, etc., so I wonder what this means in the grand scheme of things?

Oh, this is going to make for a nice discussion with my resident guru at the local Ken Crane's.

There's a 73837 sooooo in my future though. I'd love the 82" model, but it's just a little bit too big for my area and the 73" version will do just fine.

Very smart of them to come out with an 82" size. Going bigger is the only way they'll be able to differentiate themselves, and use the scaling economics of projection DLP to its fullest advantage. I would love one myself, but the 73" in my <200 sq ft room is already pushing it. :)

Very smart of them to come out with an 82" size. Going bigger is the only way they'll be able to differentiate themselves, and use the scaling economics of projection DLP to its fullest advantage. I would love one myself, but the 73" in my <200 sq ft room is already pushing it. :)

now ill assume the street price for the 82 inch will be closer to 4k

would be nice for them to lower the prices on laservue and get an 82 inch laser with a street price that goes as low as 5k

my only question about these lamp based sets are these the only models or are they also doing a diamond line up, or will the laser be the diamond line only.

*edit* never mind they have both line ups for lamp still

MDEA's Home Theater TV models are available now. Retail pricing is as follows:

737 Series

WD-60737 - $1,499.00 WD-73737 - $2,499.00

WD-65737 - $1,799.00 WD-82737 - $4,199.00



837 Series

WD-65837 - $2,199.00 WD-737837 - $2,999.00 WD-82837 - $4,999.00

now if they can only make it like between a 500-1000 premium to go from lamp based diamond to laservue that would be awesome though.

Shortly after you posted this - I received an update on Mitsubishi's announcements. I haven't even had time to read it myself, but here it is anyway.

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6650124.html

Cheers,
Spence

I read the article, and I'm still trying to figure out what the model # is of the laserVue sets. What is it? it only seems to mention it being available in 65"

Too bad ya still gotta mess with bulbs. LED's would have been nice.

I read the article, and I'm still trying to figure out what the model # is of the laserVue sets. What is it? it only seems to mention it being available in 65"

http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L65A90

Does anyone know if anybody has ever made an adult film in 3D?

Can you imagine seeing that on the 82-inch?

Too bad ya still gotta mess with bulbs. LED's would have been nice.

I don’t see how taking a couple of minuets out of your life every couple of years to change a lamp is a big deal. Lamps are not expensive now either.

I don’t see how taking a couple of minuets out of your life every couple of years to change a lamp is a big deal. Lamps are not expensive now either.

I don't do "minuets", I don't do waltzes, and I don't do bulbs.

ROFL :D very good.

Can you be bothered to change the batteries in the remote, or is that too much effort as well? ;)

ROFL :D very good.

Can you be bothered to change the batteries in the remote, or is that too much effort as well? ;)

Only batteries for the remote, don't cost in excess of $200! ;)

Only batteries for the remote, don't cost in excess of $200! ;)


Neither do lamps. Recent Mits lamps have been $99 from Mitsubishi, and most of the earlier ones can be found in that range, even with a 1 year warranty if you shop the various vendors.

The lamps have, IME, lasted an average of over 6000 hours on most of the Mits sets, and when you calculate the cost over time it comes out to less than the electricity to operate a set. Lamps have not been a significant issue for some time, at least for those who do their homework.

Neither do lamps. Recent Mits lamps have been $99 from Mitsubishi, and most of the earlier ones can be found in that range, even with a 1 year warranty if you shop the various vendors.

The lamps have, IME, lasted an average of over 6000 hours on most of the Mits sets, and when you calculate the cost over time it comes out to less than the electricity to operate a set. Lamps have not been a significant issue for some time, at least for those who do their homework.

Thanks lcaillo, I had no idea that the prices had come down that much on the lamps. I am still holding out hope for a LaserVue, but this news certainly makes replacing my old CRT 65907, with a 73" DLP pretty darn attractive, providing my dream of an affordable (for my income bracket) LaserVue doesn't pan out!

Neither do lamps. Recent Mits lamps have been $99 from Mitsubishi, and most of the earlier ones can be found in that range, even with a 1 year warranty if you shop the various vendors.

The lamps have, IME, lasted an average of over 6000 hours on most of the Mits sets, and when you calculate the cost over time it comes out to less than the electricity to operate a set. Lamps have not been a significant issue for some time, at least for those who do their homework.

Maybe lamps can "last' 6000 hours but with my 73927 I have to change it after 1000-2000 otherwise the picture gets so weak I can only watch it in a completely dark room. It's also annoying when you pay for an ISF calibration and few months later you have to do it again. I can't understand when people say they have the bulb with more than 5000 hours and the picture is still good. When I had a front projector the problem was the same.

Only reason why I'm still considering a DLP is size/price. I don't have 20K to buy a 70" flat screen .

...Only reason why I'm still considering a DLP is size/price. I don't have 20K to buy a 70" flat screen .

Sure, but thats a perfectly valid reason, and for a very nice product! Kind of like saying: the only reason I'm still considering a Lexus is that I don't have 350K to buy a Bentley Brooklands. Hardly an indictment of the Lexus.

-Reid

Sure, but thats a perfectly valid reason, and for a very nice product! Kind of like saying: the only reason I'm still considering a Lexus is that I don't have 350K to buy a Bentley Brooklands. Hardly an indictment of the Lexus.

-Reid

That's right. I can be happy with a 82" DLP or a Lexus. I had a 1966 Studebaker and a 19" tube Sylvania and was also very happy!

I'm happy that you are happy. Now what about the OTHER six Dwarfs....

Why doesn't Mitsubishi offer customers multiple lamps at reduced cost when they buy a new Mitsubishi?

Interesting question.

Why doesn't Mitsubishi offer customers multiple lamps at reduced cost when they buy a new Mitsubishi?

I guess it would be the retailer who would have to support this.
Mitsubishi doesnt know that you purchased a TV and therefore couldnt offer lamps to you.

One reason a retailer may not do this, is they probably dont want to highlight the whole lamp thingy. Could stall or cancel a potential sale...just let service or mitsubishi handle it when a new lamp is needed.

How many more people would bemore inclined to buy lamp based DLP sets if they could get say at least 4 lamps at a reduced cost?

How many more people would bemore inclined to buy lamp based DLP sets if they could get say at least 4 lamps at a reduced cost?
Who knows - isn't this the LaserVue thread anyway? No need for lamps with the LaserVue...

Why doesn't Mitsubishi offer customers multiple lamps at reduced cost when they buy a new Mitsubishi?

Actually, they have done this. When I bought my MIT projector, they included a coupon for a free extra bulb directly from them (which of course I redeemed). After 2 years, I've got about 400 hours on the first 2000-hour lamp. So assuming I can live with gradual lamp dimming, I've got perhaps 4 more years of life on the first bulb. Honestly, I'll probably never even use the replacement - I'll likely get a new projector before I ever need it.

Who knows - isn't this the LaserVue thread anyway? No need for lamps with the LaserVue...

Well, yeah thats true. It is probably valid to discuss the relative merit of bulb sets too, though, isn't it?

-Reid

Who knows - isn't this the LaserVue thread anyway? No need for lamps with the LaserVue...

I would love to discuss Laservue but first I must see one. Here in south Florida it's still vaporvue.

Maybe lamps can "last' 6000 hours but with my 73927 I have to change it after 1000-2000 otherwise the picture gets so weak I can only watch it in a completely dark room. It's also annoying when you pay for an ISF calibration and few months later you have to do it again. I can't understand when people say they have the bulb with more than 5000 hours and the picture is still good. When I had a front projector the problem was the same.

Only reason why I'm still considering a DLP is size/price. I don't have 20K to buy a 70" flat screen .

This is atypical. The vast majority of our clients have been getting well over 6000 hours on mits lamps. After the second lamp with a short life, I would have been looking for the reason, likely a bad ballast.

Why doesn't Mitsubishi offer customers multiple lamps at reduced cost when they buy a new Mitsubishi?


$99 is not cheap enough?

I ain't paying $200 but I guess I could barely stomach $99!

What is the latest on the 73-inch Laservue? When are we going to be able to buy it?

If the new 82-inch from Mitsubishi has a pretty good picture and the 65-inch Laservue costs more and is only marginally better--how many people do you think might opt for the new 82-inch lamp based DLP?

I'm not a big fan of lamp based DLPs but the 82-inch will be their best one yet and SIZE matters--82-inches is getting into real theater territory.

I think Mitsubishi needs to drop the price on their Laservues SOME or not many people will buy them.

The good thing is that maybe some who balk at paying for the Laservue will buy the 82-inch Mitsubishi.

I'm for anything that advances SIZE.

As long as LCD is LITTLE Mitsubishi will stand a chance of staying in buisness.

Course Panasonic is going to make one cheap 65-inch plasma this year in addition to their V series 65-inch.

I'll say this--if a 65-inch Laservue can't beat the lower priced 65-inch Panasonic plasma then Laservue is doomed.

The 82-inchers might stand a chance because the best one will be only $4999 and 3D capable.

You must be hard up if $200 is a significant outlay, how can you afford a $5000 plus TV?
$200 does not go far these days.

Oh please! It's not that $200 is alot of money--it's just alot compared to ZERO with other technologies that are BETTER!

I've heard about every lame attempt in the history of man to justify the cost of the crappy lamps that power DLP.

If DLP never had the lamp issue they'd still be in buisness now.

Some people run their TVs at least 12 hours a day.

If you do that it's only 500 days until you reach 6000 and most lamps won't last that long.

Alot of the LED DLPS were bought for no other reason than people didn't want to be replacing lamps no matter if they had millions in the bank!

I find myself in the unusual position of agreeing with Artwood. The need to replace lamps is a psychological as well as a financial issue. Also the possibility of a premature lamp failure, which used to be much more common than now, constitutes a defect in the set, and adds to the poor public image of RP technology. Furthermore, the presence of toxic materials in the lamps leaves a bad taste in some people's mouths, so to speak. I know it bothers me, even tho I love most other aspects of my D-ILA.

The sooner mercury-vapor lamps disappear from common use the better. Mercury has a valid place in industrial processes but not in people's homes and in the waste stream.

Why doesn't Mitsubishi offer customers multiple lamps at reduced cost when they buy a new Mitsubishi?

Ideally they should have included a spare bulb in the set, on a sliding holder where you just flip a lever to swap in the spare bulb when the 1st one blows, just like the old Kodak slide projectors used. No one likes the thought that a bulb could unexpectedly go at any time, but if all you had to do was reach around and flip a lever, that fear could easily be mitigated. And the cost to include another bulb would probably be quite low if it were included with the set.

But at this point, I would think they would be focusing on replacing the bulb sets with the LV, assuming they can get it perfected and cost effective.

When I buy a car, I know that certain fluids (petrol, oil, water etc) are going to need replacing at some point. Brakes, wipers, you get the idea. And there'll be a cost with each.

This is the same with a bulb based TV/PJ. At some point the consumable will have been consumed and will need to be replaced. $200, $99, it's all the same. The bulb still needs replacing.

If you're not keen on having to replace consumables, then don't buy something that consumes. Get a bike, walk, get a CRT, LCD.....

However, if you want north of 60 inch screen size, and don't have - say - 20k to spend, then DLP is the only game in town. And with that game comes the need for a new bulb every once in a while.

BTW, I'll have the Bentley please...... :D

Seggers

The sooner mercury-vapor lamps disappear from common use the better. Mercury has a valid place in industrial processes but not in people's homes and in the waste stream.

Of course, our geniuses in Congress have mandated compact flourescents in a few years, which also contain mercury.:rolleyes:

However, if you want north of 60 inch screen size, and don't have - say - 20k to spend, then DLP is the only game in town. And with that game comes the need for a new bulb every once in a while.
Seggers

Or you could buy a laservue, or, if you were really smart, you snatched up an LED DLP while you still could. :D

Some people run their TVs at least 12 hours a day.




Do the numbers. Like I said before, the cost of lamps for most people turns out to be less than the electricity that the set uses.

Of course, our geniuses in Congress have mandated compact flourescents in a few years, which also contain mercury.:rolleyes:
It's not like they are specifically mandating mercury based products, they are mandating an efficiency minimum. Besides, according to Popular Mechanics (http://www.popularmechanics.com/blogs/home_journal_news/4217864.html), switching to CFLs could reduce the amount of mercury released into our environment:
Approximately 0.0234 mg of mercury—plus carbon dioxide, sulfur dioxide and nitrogen oxide—releases into the air per 1 kwh of electricity that a coal-fired power plant generates. Over the 7500-hour average range of one CFL, then, a plant will emit 13.16 mg of mercury to sustain a 75-watt incandescent bulb but only 3.51 mg of mercury to sustain a 20-watt CFL (the lightning equivalent of a 75-watt traditional bulb). Even if the mercury contained in a CFL was directly released into the atmosphere, an incandescent would still contribute 4.65 more milligrams of mercury into the environment over its lifetime.

I would love to discuss Laservue but first I must see one. Here in south Florida it's still vaporvue.
I had the opportunity to see the LaserVue in action awhile back. I was not impressed. The system had a constant Hummmm from the rotating laser motor, and the whole TV vibrated. The movement was very noticable, as was the noise. Not ready for Prime Time, yet. The picture quality on the other hand, looked great.

Do the numbers. Like I said before, the cost of lamps for most people turns out to be less than the electricity that the set uses.

That's the second time you've brought up that nonsensical point. It's like that old ad for Topol toothpaste made for smokers where they said "Topol may cost more than regular toothpaste but compared to the cost of cigarettes..." It's not like Topol was REPLACING the cigarettes. It was an extra cost ON TOP OF what smokers were already paying for their habit.
But since you bring up the subject of electricity, a bulb-based set requires more electricity than either the LEDs sets or a Laservue. So the cost of electricity is higher for a bulb-based set ON TOP OF the extra cost of replacing bulbs every year or so.

And let's run down the other negatives of bulb-based sets compared to LEDs and Laservue:
1. Colorwheel: more noise, more mechanical parts to break down, more prominent rainbows.
2. More heat: equals more fan noise. Plus you will need a hefty UPS because if the set loses power and the fan can't run for a few minutes after the set turns off you risk damaging it.
3. Longer start up times.
4. Brightness degrades significantly over a short period of time compared to LED and Laservue.

But this is of course getting off-topic for this thread...

[QUOTE=tallen94;16240190]4. Brightness degrades significantly over a short period of time compared to LED and Laservue.


This is the biggest downside, IMO. I can't believe when people keep saying the bulb lasts for 6000 hours. Are they blind or they just wait for it to blow up before replacing ? The bottom line is : DLP bulbs can "last' a long time but they can't keep the same brightness after 1-2000 hours. That's the nature of the beast, it's just a fricking bulb.

BTW, I think this is not off-topic. We have to compare LV with regular DLPs and the ratio price/size. Very few people wuld pay 7Gs for a 65" LV if in 3 months a 65" Panasonic plasma (P65V10) will be available for less than 5. On the same token, a 82" DLP for 4Gs sounds like a bargain compared to the LV even if we replace the bulb every month.

Of course, our geniuses in Congress have mandated compact flourescents in a few years, which also contain mercury...

Well being Canadian I don't want to debate the actions of your Congress (our Parliament gives us plenty to complain about), but I doubt any government is mandating particular technologies, just energy standards. So desperately trying to bring this back to at least slightly on topic, this leaves the future even more wide open for LEDs in all applications, including televisions. They contain no toxic chemicals, as I understand.

[QUOTE=tallen94;16240190]On the same token, a 82" DLP for 4Gs sounds like a bargain compared to the LV even if we replace the bulb every month.

Exactly.

I personally have no interest in any DLP display, makes no difference if the light source is a UHP lamp, a LED array or lasers, simply because none offer the contrast and black levels I am looking for, if they did I would be interested even if I had to replace a $200 lamp twice a year. Lamp replacement is just a non issue as far as I am concerned; I'm only interested in how the display performs.
If I could live with the DLP black levels a UHP lamp driven 82” sounds a lot more interesting then a 65”-67” LED or Laser driven model.

If only JVC would put their high end projector technology into a no holds bared RPTV, it would not be cheap but performance should be above anything else available at any price.
Accurate color and up to 50,000:1 native contrast ratio using a UHP lamp, bring it on JVC, I want an 80”-90” version. :D

That's the second time you've brought up that nonsensical point. It's like that old ad for Topol toothpaste made for smokers where they said "Topol may cost more than regular toothpaste but compared to the cost of cigarettes..." It's not like Topol was REPLACING the cigarettes. It was an extra cost ON TOP OF what smokers were already paying for their habit.
But since you bring up the subject of electricity, a bulb-based set requires more electricity than either the LEDs sets or a Laservue. So the cost of electricity is higher for a bulb-based set ON TOP OF the extra cost of replacing bulbs every year or so.

And let's run down the other negatives of bulb-based sets compared to LEDs and Laservue:
1. Colorwheel: more noise, more mechanical parts to break down, more prominent rainbows.
2. More heat: equals more fan noise. Plus you will need a hefty UPS because if the set loses power and the fan can't run for a few minutes after the set turns off you risk damaging it.
3. Longer start up times.
4. Brightness degrades significantly over a short period of time compared to LED and Laservue.

But this is of course getting off-topic for this thread...

Look at the actual power consumption differences and calculate the cost. The point is that the cost of the lamp is not as significant a factor as many would suggest, and in the context of the operating costs that people generally DO NOT consider, is hardly a big issue. If you think my point is nonsense, that is fine, but it does provide a different perspective and context which one can consider the significance of various costs.

Also, your assumptions are largely not supported by much field experience.

First, The color wheel and fan noise has rarely been a significant issue for hundreds of users that the dealers that I service have installed these sets for. Also, while other vendors have had very high color wheel failure rates, Mitsubishi has had virtually none (though I do fault them on the early sets for not supplying the CW as a part discrete from the LE).

Second, with hundreds of installations with no UPS at all, in an area with very high incidence of power outage and lightning, we have not seen the dreaded failures that are supposed to come from shutting down lamp based sets without running the cooling fan. I have pointed out many times that in conversations with engineers from several TV makers and lamp OEMs, the matter is far less significant than most make it out to be. The biggest issue with post power cooling fans is to allow a quicker restart because it is the starting of a hot lamp that will cause potential damage.

Finally, the brightness of a lamp does change over time, but they stay quite stable for a large part of the lamp life. With projectors, certainly that life is shorter. With most of the RP DLP sets of the last few years, however, the typical life has been much greater than originally expected by some vendors, and when it is repeatedly shorter, there is often some cause other than the lamp. It would be great to eliminate the lamp, but there are a lot less problems with them than naysayers would have us believe. There are also issues with color reproduction in narrow band light sources that have been addressed with varying success.

Context complicates things, my friend, and extreme views, and all technologies, tend to have caveats, regardless of which side of the argument you fall.

Now, enough of this lamp based discussion. This is peripheral to the issue of Laservue.

Oh please! It's not that $200 is alot of money--it's just alot compared to ZERO with other technologies that are BETTER!

I've heard about every lame attempt in the history of man to justify the cost of the crappy lamps that power DLP.

If DLP never had the lamp issue they'd still be in buisness now.

Some people run their TVs at least 12 hours a day.

If you do that it's only 500 days until you reach 6000 and most lamps won't last that long.

Alot of the LED DLPS were bought for no other reason than people didn't want to be replacing lamps no matter if they had millions in the bank!


My Mits 52628 is still going strong after 4 years, still has the factory bulb and has never had any probs. What in the world am i gonna replace it with when it goes?

For all the lamp apologists out there I can tell you this: take any lamp--run it in a rear projection set at my house and I guarantee you that the TV will be on enough to where it just isn't going to last a long time.

People who have TV on at least 10 hours a day aren't lamp enthusiasts.

On the other hand you COULD run a Direct-view CRT 24 hours a day and it would still be playing after countless bubls were burned out.

The point isn't going back to direct-view--the point is lamps suck.

Now if you do have a lamp based set the best option is to invest in about 5 lamps and then you will probably not have to worry about it.

I really do believe that the display industry embraces planned obsolescence.

Rear projection is a great value as far as dollars per square inch.

Something tells me that once they hook a person into that great value they try to make up the difference with bulbs--either you buy them or get tired of the hassel and chunk whatever lamp set you have and buy another technology.

The industry isn't dumb--they'll bleed you to death any way possible.

They'll even hire people to come here and tell you that lamp replacement is like oil replacement in a car.

What they won't tell you is that most internal combustion engine cars need oil replacement as there are few electric cars.

There are more than just a few non lamp based technologies.

Exactly how long are the laser supposed to last in the Laservue?

if someone doesn't plan on keeping a Laservue a long time that won't make any difference--if they do and if the lasers don't last very long then consumers need to know that.

Don't expect Mitsubishi to tell them.

For all the lamp apologists out there I can tell you this: take any lamp--run it in a rear projection set at my house and I guarantee you that the TV will be on enough to where it just isn't going to last a long time.

People who have TV on at least 10 hours a day aren't lamp enthusiasts.
People who have a TV on 10 or more hours a day probably need to get out more :rolleyes:.

Now can we get back on topic - you know that LASERVUE that people love to bash so much (even though no bulbs are needed...). Please?

...DLP bulbs can "last' a long time but they can't keep the same brightness after 1-2000 hours. ...

After 4 lamps I find they stay perfectly acceptable for well over 5000 hours. The slight deterioration experienced up to then is easily compensated by the menu. When they do start to fail it's quite noticable but happens quickly. To be technically correct, by the way, you should talk about RP, mercury-vapor, or hot lamps, not DLP. The same lamp technology is used in DLP, LCoS and LCD RP sets.

After 4 lamps I find they stay perfectly acceptable for well over 5000 hours. The slight deterioration experienced up to then is easily compensated by the menu. When they do start to fail it's quite noticable but happens quickly. To be technically correct, by the way, you should talk about RP, mercury-vapor, or hot lamps, not DLP. The same lamp technology is used in DLP, LCoS and LCD RP sets.

I just wanted to report my experience, technically correct or not. My 73927 loses a lot of brightness after 1-2000 hours, others have the same experience and others are happy like you.

My Mits 52628 is still going strong after 4 years, still has the factory bulb and has never had any probs. What in the world am i gonna replace it with when it goes?

A new bulb. As a matter of fact, I'd suggest that now. Go on ebay. There are sellers there that have pretty good deals. That's where I get mine. After 4 years, if you put a new bulb in, you will be amazed at the difference in the pic. A good diff of course. :D

No need to buy from ebay. There are reputable distributors selling only OEM Osram lamps offering a 1 year warranty on the lamp for the same prices as the ebay sellers. Try Acme Enterprises of Orlando, for instance.

My Mits 52628 is still going strong after 4 years, still has the factory bulb and has never had any probs. ...

I feel the same way about my JVC after 3 1/2 years and 15000 hours. I had assumed that by now I would have replaced it it's just too good to let go. I do agree that a new lamp would be a good investment, really improving the image quality. What some people do is buy the new lamp and install it right away, and keep the old one as a spare. That way you get to try out the new one while it's under warrentee, which starts when you buy the lamp not when you install it. This assumes you buy from a reputable dealer, which I also think is a good idea. There's cheap knockoffs out there, and they live on places like Ebay.

A new bulb. As a matter of fact, I'd suggest that now. Go on ebay. There are sellers there that have pretty good deals. That's where I get mine. After 4 years, if you put a new bulb in, you will be amazed at the difference in the pic. A good diff of course. :D

When the bulb goes the set goes. I am ready for a 65" DLP or bigger for my bedroom.

Like the man said, can we please talk about the TV with the laser instead of boring Thomas Edison light bulbs. Pretty please.

Like the man said, can we please talk about the TV with the laser instead of boring Thomas Edison light bulbs. Pretty please.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you but this thread has always been 95% OT mainly because there has been no laser sets to talk about. Hopefully that will change now that Mitsubishi appears to have resumed production, then the owner's thread can take over. In the meantime don't sweat it. Without OT posts this thread would have died a year ago.

Ordinarily I'd agree with you but this thread has always been 95% OT mainly because there has been no laser sets to talk about. Hopefully that will change now that Mitsubishi appears to have resumed production, then the owner's thread can take over. In the meantime don't sweat it. Without OT posts this thread would have died a year ago.
And that would have been a bad thing? ;)

He, he. I hope this set turns out good. There is no way I would buy down in size from what I have which is a Sony 60XBR2. It's dissapointing to go to Best Buy and all they have are sets smaller than mine. Thankfully there is an ABT (Glenview, IL) store not too far away. One thing about them is that they will have a sampling of just about everything that's out there for sale. And if I can't afford a large size plasma or lcd when it's time to put Mr. XBR2 to rest, it will be good to know that hopefully Mitsubishi will have something waiting.

And that would have been a bad thing? ;)

Actually I've enjoyed many of the wanderings. And it was always good to have a place to go to in case anything new developed about the original topic, which, as others have pointed out, is not too promising so far.

Every month that goes by I'm more convinced that LED-lit LCD is going to dominate the next decade or two - side lit for smaller cheaper sets, local dimming backlit for larger more expensive sets. I'm not a fanboy (I still like my D-ILA) but it just seems to me that this technology has the science and economics numbers on its side, and from what I've seen in stores, the visual appeal too. But we'll see. Life is interesting.

Actually I've enjoyed many of the wanderings. And it was always good to have a place to go to in case anything new developed about the original topic, which, as others have pointed out, is not too promising so far.

Every month that goes by I'm more convinced that LED-lit LCD is going to dominate the next decade or two - side lit for smaller cheaper sets, local dimming backlit for larger more expensive sets. I'm not a fanboy (I still like my D-ILA) but it just seems to me that this technology has the science and economics numbers on its side, and from what I've seen in stores, the visual appeal too. But we'll see. Life is interesting.


You make a great point-I agree!:)

If there's anything that anyone feels should be updated or added to the original post that I've missed, PM me to let me know.

I stopped by the local non-chain home theater store yesterday and took a look at the Laservue. The salesman said that they did not get any units from the original production run, and that the Laservue on the sales floor had come from the restarted production line.

This store normally ISF calibrates their floor models, but so far on the Laservue they had only changed it to "normal" mode (I assume from whatever Mits' "torch" mode is called) and turned down the contrast. FWIW, in one scene (from a Mits feed) with white lettering on a dark background, I thought that I might have seen a subtle hint of the light leak problem discussed in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1137453), but it could have been part of the picture. In other similar scenes I could see no hint of a light leak. The picture had a fairly marked silkscreen effect (don't think it was laser "speckle", but don't know), but perhaps this could be minimized by properly adjusting the picture. There was no hint of noise or vibration from the motorized screen. The display was in a dim, but not dark, room.

Not too helpful, I know, but I thought you might like to hear about the new production run showing up in stores.

I stopped by the local non-chain home theater store yesterday and took a look at the Laservue. The salesman said that they did not get any units from the original production run, and that the Laservue on the sales floor had come from the restarted production line.

This store normally ISF calibrates their floor models, but so far on the Laservue they had only changed it to "normal" mode (I assume from whatever Mits' "torch" mode is called) and turned down the contrast. FWIW, in one scene (from a Mits feed) with white lettering on a dark background, I thought that I might have seen a subtle hint of the light leak problem discussed in this thread (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1137453), but it could have been part of the picture. In other similar scenes I could see no hint of a light leak. The picture had a fairly marked silkscreen effect (don't think it was laser "speckle", but don't know), but perhaps this could be minimized by properly adjusting the picture. There was no hint of noise or vibration from the motorized screen. The display was in a dim, but not dark, room.

Not too helpful, I know, but I thought you might like to hear about the new production run showing up in stores.
What was the asking price?

What was the asking price?


This was something of a high-end store that sells theater design, installation, customer service, etc. as much as they sell equipment. They were asking list price ($7000).

This was something of a high-end store that sells theater design, installation, customer service, etc. as much as they sell equipment. They were asking list price ($7000).
Haha...that's what I thought. That's just crazy.

"Every month that goes by I'm more convinced that LED-lit LCD is going to dominate the next decade or two - side lit for smaller cheaper sets, local dimming backlit for larger more expensive sets. I'm not a fanboy (I still like my D-ILA) but it just seems to me that this technology has the science and economics numbers on its side, and from what I've seen in stores, the visual appeal too. But we'll see. Life is interesting."

An easy call. Invest accordingly.

"Every month that goes by I'm more convinced that LED-lit LCD is going to dominate the next decade or two - side lit for smaller cheaper sets, local dimming backlit for larger more expensive sets. I'm not a fanboy (I still like my D-ILA) but it just seems to me that this technology has the science and economics numbers on its side, and from what I've seen in stores, the visual appeal too. But we'll see. Life is interesting."

An easy call. Invest accordingly.
I'd take an LED LCD, but I just can't stand the motion handling compared to what I have or a plasma. The black levels have greatly improved however and that's no longer an issue for me.

It'll keep getting better. Trust me on that. And it's makes the most economic sense by far for the manufacturers.

It'll keep getting better. Trust me on that. And it's makes the most economic sense by far for the manufacturers.
Well...I won't hold my breath. The motion issue hasn't improved at all in my opinion.

Haha...that's what I thought. That's just crazy.
I agree. I don't know how they expect to sell ANY Laservues at that price.

If LCD looks like crap when viewed from an angle til the end of time--then it will be crap til the end of time.

I agree. I don't know how they expect to sell ANY Laservues at that price.

Well, they must have sold some as there is (was?) a LV owners thread.

And as has been muttered many times, there are people out there who want the newest stuff and are not to concerned about dropping wedges of large ones to get it.

Seggers

Well, they must have sold some as there is (was?) a LV owners thread.

And as has been muttered many times, there are people out there who want the newest stuff and are not to concerned about dropping wedges of large ones to get it.

Seggers


Well, they may sell a few. I just can't figure out their thinking in trying to continue to push a 7K dlp in this economy. I still believe they won't last long as a viable alternative to lcd/ plasma not to mention their own dlp bulb sets.

Just obtained a product overview on the new line of LaserVue's coming out in the fall. I will try to scan it again... it was over 800 KB for a .PDF file.

Current series is the L65-A90 now in production... I won't discus specs it's on Mitzi's web site. However, this information is what was passed out to the dealers a couple of weeks ago. First of all they (Mitzi) have not finalized the model numbers yet.

In the handout there are three series... 1.) L65-A90 current production model 2.) A81 Series (available in 67" and 75") and finally 3.) the DIAMOND series A91 (available in 67" and 75"). There will be no 73" LaserVue.

I will just list the features on the Diamond series..

1. Variable Smooth 240 Hz Film Motion
2. ISFccc Advance Video Adjustments
3. Internet Media Ready
4. RS-232C
5. AMX Device Discovery
6. Brushed Metal Design
7. New Cinema Mode
8. New JADE Activity Based User Interface
9. Energy Star 3.0 Qualified
10. Exclusive LaserVue Light Engine (hopefully they fix the light shield)
11. Twice the Color
12. Ultra-Energy Efficient
13. UltraThin Frame
14. 3D Ready
15. Exclusive 6-Color Processor
16. Plush 1080p 5G 12 bit Digital Video Processing
17. Deep Field and SharpEdge
18. 4 HDMI 1.3a Inputs w/CEC supports DeepColor and x.v.Color
19. NetCommand
20. Wired IR Input
21. PerfectColor & PerfectTint
22. Easy Connect
23. USB Media Input: Photos and Music
:D

Well I'm just going to have to modify my wall unit for the 75"!!! Yea, Baby:cool:

Thanks for the info tron49!

While I am excited as all hell about the new models and sizes, the cynic in me is expecting the prices of their "Diamond" line of LaserVue sets to be in closer toward 5-digits.

I am still hopeful that I'll see something come in at a price in my range... or I'll win the lottery. ;)

Spence

:D
Here is a small version of the data sheet... I hope to talk to my contact and find out price and if the engineers are aware of the filter cap problem (light leak)...

ENJOY!!!

Thanks for the intel. Many die-hard Mitsubishiers will have a choice between a monster 82" for less than 5 Gs or a 75" hightech laser for probably more than 10. I thought laser was dead and in south Florida there is only one Diamond B&M store now (Magnolia is not a Diamond dealer).

Nice PDF - Can't wait to get an official release with clearer text & graphics, but this gets me excited.

I am currious about the "brushed metal design", and would hope that those of us wanting the best available picture quality, won't need to pay for 'brushed metal'. I am fine with plain black as it would be far less distracting to the eye when viewing.

Spence

The price had better be significantly lower with much better performance.

agreed.

The price had better be significantly lower with much better performance.

The current 65 is 7K. Can't imagine what the price of a 75 Diamomd series will be? HELLO MITS, the economy sucks. Just who do you think is going to be buying these sets? All the former high salaried execs who are now out of jobs, maybe execs in the auto industry:rolleyes:, or maybe Bernie Maddoff :confused: Looking forward to seeing the prices on these sets.

Madoff's last $10K will go towards this new cell tv in Club Fed.

The current 65 is 7K. Can't imagine what the price of a 75 Diamomd series will be? HELLO MITS, the economy sucks. Just who do you think is going to be buying these sets? All the former high salaried execs who are now out of jobs, maybe execs in the auto industry:rolleyes:, or maybe Bernie Maddoff :confused: Looking forward to seeing the prices on these sets.
Or perhaps the prices are going to come down... They haven't announced the prices yet, so there's probably no need to get all worked up over it.

They are selling all that they can produce. The current set will never be produced in large numbers. As has been pointed out many times, the price is mostly irrelevant on this introductory model as it is only a very limited production demonstration of the technology. The second gen sets will be priced more competitively and will be mass produced. Don't expect them until the end of 2009 or early 2010, if they materialize at all.

The current 65 is 7K. Can't imagine what the price of a 75 Diamomd series will be? HELLO MITS, the economy sucks. Just who do you think is going to be buying these sets? All the former high salaried execs who are now out of jobs, maybe execs in the auto industry:rolleyes:, or maybe Bernie Maddoff :confused: Looking forward to seeing the prices on these sets.

its true that unemployment rate is at 8%. But you know what that means?
92% of americans have paying jobs.

I am certain that the next line of laservues will be at a premium.
Dont expect to see one at your favorite walmart anytime soon.

Dont expect to see one at your favorite walmart anytime soon.

The problem is, at least here in south Florida, the high-end stores (Tweeter, etc...) no longer exist. We will have to deal with the "Walmarts" very soon. The 8% unemployement wiill affect everybody, including the 92% .

nah.
consumer confidence is up in april and unemployment has stopped its freefall.

i couldnt comment on stores in south florida but theres gotta be something in that area. I thought for sure many rich people live in that area.

Would anyone be in a position to compare the Laservue vs. the Sony Qualia 006 70 in. HDTV SXRD TV in PQ? Down the road I may be getting rid of my Qualia and looking to buy the Laservue 65 or 73 when it comes out.
The Qualia is a 1080i that up converts to 1080p, so it is not really a 1080p set.

Good idea or bad?:confused:

Jim

[QUOTE=dreaux;16380987]Would anyone be in a position to compare the Laservue vs. the Sony Qualia 006 70 in. HDTV SXRD TV in PQ? Down the road I may be getting rid of my Qualia and looking to buy the Laservue 65 or 73 when it comes out.
The Qualia is a 1080i that up converts to 1080p, so it is not really a 1080p set.

Good idea or bad?:confused:

I have a Mitsubishi 73927 and also want to replace it this year. I have never seen the Laservue but few people reported it is not much better than the regular bulb LCD. If that's the case, I will have to downsize to a panasonic plasma , the 65V10 model. There will be no 73" LV, it will be 75".

BTW, how can you "get rid of" a Qualia ? I think it's gonna be very difficult to find a buyer for such a monster TV (or my 73927). I will probably end up donating mine to the Fire Station nearby.

[QUOTE=dreaux;16380987]Would anyone be in a position to compare the Laservue vs. the Sony Qualia 006 70 in. HDTV SXRD TV in PQ? Down the road I may be getting rid of my Qualia and looking to buy the Laservue 65 or 73 when it comes out.
The Qualia is a 1080i that up converts to 1080p, so it is not really a 1080p set.

Good idea or bad?:confused:

I have a Mitsubishi 73927 and also want to replace it this year. I have never seen the Laservue but few people reported it is not much better than the regular bulb LCD. If that's the case, I will have to downsize to a panasonic plasma , the 65V10 model. There will be no 73" LV, it will be 75".

BTW, how can you "get rid of" a Qualia ? I think it's gonna be very difficult to find a buyer for such a monster TV (or my 73927). I will probably end up donating mine to the Fire Station nearby.

Yeah it really is a monster but it still has a great picture. Not sure what I will do with it when the time comes. There is always Ebay-local pickup. The only picture I have seen that I really like is the Samsung - 55" Class / 1080p / 240Hz / LED HDTV but its only up to 55 inches, but it is impressive.

[QUOTE=dreaux;16380987]Would anyone be in a position to compare the Laservue vs. the Sony Qualia 006 70 in. HDTV SXRD TV in PQ? Down the road I may be getting rid of my Qualia and looking to buy the Laservue 65 or 73 when it comes out.
The Qualia is a 1080i that up converts to 1080p, so it is not really a 1080p set.

Good idea or bad?:confused:

I have a Mitsubishi 73927 and also want to replace it this year. I have never seen the Laservue but few people reported it is not much better than the regular bulb LCD. If that's the case, I will have to downsize to a panasonic plasma , the 65V10 model. There will be no 73" LV, it will be 75".

BTW, how can you "get rid of" a Qualia ? I think it's gonna be very difficult to find a buyer for such a monster TV (or my 73927). I will probably end up donating mine to the Fire Station nearby.

A friend recently got rid of a big screen for cash money in one day. Put it on one of the lists, and it was gone. Not a lot of money, but he didn't have to deal with getting rid of it.

will Laser TV have 0 input lag?

I have seen the $7K Mitsubishi at Frys and was not impressed. The whites washed out and the colors seemed fake. Not impressed at all.

I have seen the $7K Mitsubishi at Frys and was not impressed. The whites washed out and the colors seemed fake. Not impressed at all.


Also saw it at fry's and was disappointed although I don't know whether the settings were altered...........wouldn't trade my 65831 for what I saw.

At first the thought of expanded colors sounded appealing, but after just a minute or two on the unit I saw at Modia Home Theater, I was begging the salesman to show me how to change the color space back to the Normal setting.

The store manager claimed to know nothing about the thread on this forum describing the source of light leakage, though he acknowledged that there was a period during which Mitsubishi stopped shipping the units.

Would like to see a review in Home Theater Magazine, but the Sound and Vision review noted issues with black levels and rainbows.

The set is overpriced, but on the other hand, its ability to fit in the space of a 58" plasma, drastically curtail energy consumption while producing a bright image are all appealing breakthroughs - particularly the space factor. Wish more manufacturers would transition to a narrow bezel.

agree... a week ago saw the laservue next to a wd-65835 (last years lamp based diamond) and such a difficult time seeing the difference asked a rep. at ken crane's tv store to help me understand. two salesmen later everyone agreed that except for a very slight difference in color saturation both were very comperable. one salesman stated that that may be the reason they can't sell them at that price. we also concluded that even the wd-73835 (last years model as well) looked as good as the much smaller laservue. well the upshot to the story was that i just returned today from that same store where they have now placed the laservue completely away from all other dlp's.

agree... a week ago saw the laservue next to a wd-65835 (last years lamp based diamond) and such a difficult time seeing the difference asked a rep. at ken crane's tv store to help me understand. two salesmen later everyone agreed that except for a very slight difference in color saturation both were very comperable. one salesman stated that that may be the reason they can't sell them at that price. we also concluded that even the wd-73835 (last years model as well) looked as good as the much smaller laservue. well the upshot to the story was that i just returned today from that same store where they have now placed the laservue completely away from all other dlp's.

They should also put it away from any modern plasma...

The colors do seem to be on the neon side but really, what do you expect? It's what they're advertising and maybe just maybe people aren't used to seeing colors this vivid. It can't all be marketing. They aren't Monster Cable afterall.

The colors do seem to be on the neon side but really, what do you expect? It's what they're advertising and maybe just maybe people aren't used to seeing colors this vivid. It can't all be marketing. They aren't Monster Cable afterall.

The problem may be that, in real life, the colors AREN'T this vivid...

agree... a week ago saw the laservue next to a wd-65835 (last years lamp based diamond) and such a difficult time seeing the difference asked a rep. at ken crane's tv store to help me understand. two salesmen later everyone agreed that except for a very slight difference in color saturation both were very comperable. one salesman stated that that may be the reason they can't sell them at that price. we also concluded that even the wd-73835 (last years model as well) looked as good as the much smaller laservue. well the upshot to the story was that i just returned today from that same store where they have now placed the laservue completely away from all other dlp's.

I posted some time back about a similar observation I had of a 65835 near a 65 Laservue. I could hardly notice any difference EXCEPT for the price. Why MITS continues to put out an excellent, lowpriced bulb Diamond set then tries to sell a ridiculously overpriced Laservue is beyond the realm of reason.

With plasmas and LCDs getting very cheap, at least on sizes up to 65", Mitsubishi knows DLPs will soon be dead. They tried to "re-invent" rear projection with the laser guns but are facing 2 major obstacles: Price is too high and picture quality, according to several people who actually saw it, is no better (or not enough better) than a regular DLP. Diehard Mitsu fans will say this was just the first generation and the next one will be much cheaper and better. My opinion ? Too late ! 70" plasmas/LCDs will come next year and bulky TVs will be history.

The problem may be that, in real life, the colors AREN'T this vivid...

Actually, they are. Whatever colors ANY TV can reproduce, that IS "real life." There is no such thing as a TV that can reproduce colors that don't occur in "real life." The best a TV can possibly do is to reproduce ALL of the visible spectrum of light, which not even the laservue can do.

The problem has nothing to do with the fact that the TV produces vivid colors -- the problem is whether or not the colors match the intent of the filmmakers. If color range is "expanded" to take advantage of the wider spectrum that a laservue can reproduce, the argument is that this is not what it is "supposed" to look like -- it's "more vivid" that what the filmmakers saw when they mastered it.

If, on the other hand, new standards are utilized by hardware and software manufacturers, and filmmakers start creating content using wider gamut monitors, then it will suddenly be the wide gamut monitors that are the most accurate way to view the result. This, of course, will necessitate new standards since the 709 standard has a narrower gamut.

In other words, we seem to be in an transitional phase at the moment where the newest consumer monitors can actually "outperform" the standards being used to create content -- i.e. some monitors can produce colors that are outside the range of the official standards. As technology advances, the standards will inevitably be changed to take advantage of the newer, wider gamut monitors, and we'll eventually achieve a sort of "equilibrium" once again, with wide gamut monitors matching new, wide gamut standards. This will take some time, however, and these transitions are always messy.

At this time, however, the questions become: How "bad" is it to any given person to watch content on a monitor that has a wider gamut than the standards call for, and can those monitors be calibrated to accurately reproduce the CURRENT standard.

Some people have claimed that the wider gamut capabilities of the laservue sets result in colors being "too vivid" or "garish." This, however, is not a necessary conclusion. Just because a monitor is wide gamut, it does NOT mean that all content on it will be "garish." Consider the fact that you can calibrate ANY monitor to produce "garish" colors simply by mis-calibrating it. I don't see any reason why a laservue set couldn't be calibrated to reproduce "correct" colors -- it simply has to have the necessary service menu controls to do it. I don't know, however, whether or not this is the case. I have yet to read a calibrator's report of one of these sets.

Larry

With plasmas and LCDs getting very cheap, at least on sizes up to 65", Mitsubishi knows DLPs will soon be dead. They tried to "re-invent" rear projection with the laser guns but are facing 2 major obstacles: Price is too high and picture quality, according to several people who actually saw it, is no better (or not enough better) than a regular DLP. Diehard Mitsu fans will say this was just the first generation and the next one will be much cheaper and better. My opinion ? Too late ! 70" plasmas/LCDs will come next year and bulky TVs will be history.

The problem is that for some people, 70" is simply not big enough (not to mention 65"), and front projection has limitations (ambient light control) that make it very impractical in many setups. This is where the 73" Mitsubishis, as well as the upcoming 75" and 82" sets, still handily beat plasmas and LCDs.

I don't think that it's "Diehard Mitsu fans" that are supporting these sets -- I think it's fans of picture sizes larger than 65 or 70 inches. Mitsubishi's commitment to support larger sizes is a major driving force behind the support for these sets. Once you get used to a 73", a 65" or even a 70" just won't do.

Also, it's not at all clear that the picture from the laservue sets is "no better (or not enough better) than a regular DLP." The HDGuru review was the most detailed reviews of this set I've seen yet, and they said that it didn't just compete with one of the best plasmas (the Pioneer Kuro), but that it actually bested it in some ways. They said it was "one of the best HDTVs ever tested," which is an incredibly strong statement.

Hopefully the next generation of this set will solve the "light spill" issue, and if it comes in at a lower price point, it may be able to squarely compete with plasmas and lcds, especially at 75", which I believe will be larger than any similarly priced plasma or lcd.

Personally, I'm just happy for the competition, which drives ALL the technologies forward.

Larry

I also welcome the competition but the only available (not in my area) laser set is the 65". This is too small , too expensive, too bulky (compared to flat screens) and in my view a big mistake from Mitsubishi. They should have launched the 75" instead and there are rumors that we won't see it this year. That's my point: Too late. A year from now we will see flat screens larger than 65" and most likely not at crazy prices.

There have been a lot of posts here from people who don't see any reason the new laservue should cost so much (to paraphrase). Has anyone stopped to think about how unusual this is in our hobby?

Typically, people are loathe to point out they can't hear or see the difference between a $1000 and a $10000 component. Its kind of like admitting your eyes or ears are less skilled than someone else's. Of course, on the flip side, we have people who claim they must have $50000 speakers, since they couldn't possibly tolerate the "crappy" $20000 alternatives. Very macho. :p

I'm not arguing that we should just assume higher-priced components are automatically better. But here we have people insisting that laservue is no better than less expensive sets, even while the professional reviewers are impressed. How odd is that? Insisting that you can't perceive something that others can? How inferior! :rolleyes:

-Reid [avowed HT cheapskate]

I'm not arguing that we should just assume higher-priced components are automatically better. But here we have people insisting that laservue is no better than less expensive sets, even while the professional reviewers are impressed. How odd is that? Insisting that you can't perceive something that others can? How inferior! :rolleyes:
Part of the problem is that most of the people who have seen the LaserVue sets have NOT seen one that has been properly calibrated. Granted that side by side comparisons are made with normal DLP sets that also are not properly calibrated, but I don't feel that it's fair to dismiss the product / technology until a comparison can be made under better conditions. I haven't even seen a LaserVue yet - apparently we aren't allowed to see them in the Boston area yet...

But here we have people insisting that laservue is no better than less expensive sets, even while the professional reviewers are impressed. How odd is that? Insisting that you can't perceive something that others can? How inferior! :rolleyes:

-Reid [avowed HT cheapskate]

I have not seen a laservue yet , I just said SEVERAL people here have and they are not impressed. "Professional reviewers" ? I saw the one on Sound and Vision, also saw 4 pages of Mitsubishi advertisement.

For the records, I own a 73927 and have no interest in bashing Mitsubishi. A Mercedes AMG for $100000 can be a good deal and a Kia for $30000 can be expensive but trying to sell a Kia at Mercedes price is a huge mistake, like you or not.

I have not seen a laservue yet , I just said SEVERAL people here have and they are not impressed. "Professional reviewers" ? I saw the one on Sound and Vision, also saw 4 pages of Mitsubishi advertisement.

For the records, I own a 73927 and have no interest in bashing Mitsubishi. A Mercedes AMG for $100000 can be a good deal and a Kia for $30000 can be expensive but trying to sell a Kia at Mercedes price is a huge mistake, like you or not.

I've seen a LaserVUE at Ultimate Electronics. They had it next to another Mits DLP set. They both had the movie "Cars" on them from the same source. The LaserVUE was more detailed than the other set. In addition, they must have set it into "Torch" mode as the picture was so bright, that my eyes got tired after watching awhile. I didn't see any visual issues with the set. Now if it were bigger and cheaper, I'd be posting on the owners thread

i recently saw both the laser and diamond dlp's (bulb) at ken crane's as i noted some six posts back. i thought there was no difference to speak of between the two. they were playing a hi def source on all three sets through identical hdmi inputs. i was aware of the technical magazines reviews of the laser which was why i asked two salesmen to come over. to respond to calibration differences i was told that the mitsubishi set up men had just set up the 65 and 73 inch lamp based units and the 65 inch laser. they were next to each other. i honestly tried to see the difference but just couldn't and have to assume that the mitsubishi guys knew what they were doing. (although i have no idea if they were calibration experts but i can state that the mitsubishi tv factory is about a half mile from this ken crane's... i don't know if they built them there or just design them there) i would expect that they did however set them as best they could and was told that these were not the factory default settings on any of the sets but that they had spent hours at the store setting up these three sets.

i envy you guys. i have a 67a750 dlp, and the selling point was the led light engine. a good friend of mine has a mitsu dlp, and sold me on a dlp. the picture on this set, as on yours, blows away the competition. if you want to see dlp continue, stop beating down the laservue. it's our last oppurtunity at keeping dlp. i seriously doubt mitsu will continue lamp/colorwheel. support the technology, send your thoughts to mitsu; SAVE DLP, YOU CAN DO IT. does anyone remember the waterboy

I also welcome the competition but the only available (not in my area) laser set is the 65". This is too small , too expensive, too bulky (compared to flat screens) and in my view a big mistake from Mitsubishi. They should have launched the 75" instead and there are rumors that we won't see it this year. That's my point: Too late. A year from now we will see flat screens larger than 65" and most likely not at crazy prices.

I would have liked to see a 75" first as well, but I think they wanted to test the waters a bit first with a size that they thought would be more popular initially.

I'm not so sure that we'll see larger flat screens next year as you say. I'd LOVE for it to happen, but with absolutely nothing announced along these lines yet (as far as I've seen), it seems unlikely that well see many -- if any -- 73-inch-plus flat screens next year. The price seems to go up substantially with plasmas this large, as does heat and power consumption, which are two areas where the laser does not have an issue. I obviously don't know what will happen, but it's starting to look like the Mits sets will be the only game in town for sets 73 inches or larger, and the laservue technology still has the potential to be offer the best picture for this size of direct-view (i.e. not front projection) sets.

Larry

Part of the problem is that most of the people who have seen the LaserVue sets have NOT seen one that has been properly calibrated. Granted that side by side comparisons are made with normal DLP sets that also are not properly calibrated, but I don't feel that it's fair to dismiss the product / technology until a comparison can be made under better conditions.

I agree. And I believe that most of the people who will (ever) see LaserVues don't even know what "calibrated" means, or would understand it if it was explained to them (I'm not refering to anyone on this thread, just ordinary customers). And yet some people will find excuses to buy the most expensive component available anyway, just to have "the best", even if they don't see/hear a difference. And thats great for them - I'm sure they'll enjoy owning it.

Myself, I like going out and auditioning equipment, and trying to discern differences. I often can't, and when that means the $1000 component is the same - to me - as the $10000 component, I can genuinely admire (and occasionally buy) the cheaper component, and achieve a small "victory". Its fun.

Personally, I wouldn't buy the Laservue - its way too small. For critical viewing, I would always prefer my 125" front projection screen in the HT. For elsewhere in the house, well, its just not necessary to buy an expensive TV so the kids can watch Spongebob in all his SD glory. But its still an interesting product.

-Reid

I'd LOVE for it to happen, but with absolutely nothing announced along these lines yet (as far as I've seen), it seems unlikely that well see many -- if any -- 73-inch-plus flat screens next year.
Larry

See post 3914, they announced a 67 and a 75".
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16342888#post16342888

That's my point: Too late. A year from now we will see flat screens larger than 65" and most likely not at crazy prices.


I'm not so sure that we'll see larger flat screens next year as you say. I'd LOVE for it to happen, but with absolutely nothing announced along these lines yet (as far as I've seen), it seems unlikely that well see many -- if any -- 73-inch-plus flat screens next year.

See post 3914, they announced a 67 and a 75".
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=16342888#post16342888

I don't follow. Post 3914 looks like it's discussing LaserVues in 67 and 75". While LaserVue does indeed have a "flat screen", weren't you and lalittle both really talking about comparing LaserVue to flat panel (eg LCD/plasma) displays? Yeah, there are already 65" flat panels that are around the LaserVue price range, but where's the announcement for 73-inch-plus flat panels "not at crazy prices"?

No announcement for the big flat screens yet. I misunderstood your comment.

did see laservue announcement of a 67 and 75 inch size. no price listed but assume they would be comparable to the 65. that being said did you see mitsubishi also announced an 82 inch bulb dlp with a $4199.00 msrp. are they shooting themselves in the foot? can they get a premium price for the laser when the bulb type is 20% bigger and half of the price?

did see laservue announcement of a 67 and 75 inch size. no price listed but assume they would be comparable to the 65. that being said did you see mitsubishi also announced an 82 inch bulb dlp with a $4199.00 msrp. are they shooting themselves in the foot? can they get a premium price for the laser when the bulb type is 20% bigger and half of the price?

Actually, 2 82". 82737 and 82837. Available soon. The 82" is a bit too big for my living room but I want to take a look. One potential problem is the 180 Watts bulb, the same for the 65,73 and 82". My 73927 is already too dark for daylight viewing.

I finally saw the 65" Laservue today. It was 4 feet away from a Samsung 63" Plasma (PN63B590) at Frys. They were both playing "Cars" - obviously not the best test of "natural" or "realistic" colors, but still a stunning movie to watch.

I found the Laservue absolutely amazing. Incredible detail, beautiful color, amazing blacks, no motion blur, and almost *too* bright. I did notice very faint speckling, but only when I was very close to the screen (uncomfortably close - about 2 feet). From 7-8 feet away, it was largely unnoticeable.

FWIW, I thought it was *dramatically* better than the Samsung (and I have a 50" Samsung plasma I'm very happy with). Frankly, I was surprised at how much better it looked. The differences between the Samsung and the Panny were much less dramatic (to me).

Would I pay $7000US for it? No. But I'd wait a few years and pay a fraction of that. (Still wouldn't use it in the theater though - its got to be at least 125" for that.)

-Reid

One of the dealers that I service finally got one of these sets for demo. I have not been able to make any measurements yet but did get to play with the set some and have some subjective observations. I will report measurements and calibration results later.

First of all, before the set was turned on, I noticed the glow in the lower center of the screen. This is clearly ambient light reflected back to the screen by the aspherical mirror at the bottom of the screen. Turning off lights in the room eliminated the problem. This may be a problem for some applications, but that will be an individual decision. I think it is far less objectionable than a reflective screen.

The first thing I observed with a picture is that no matter what picture mode is used, the reds are far too intense. The odd thing is that even when turning down the color, the reds seem to remain more saturated and the color control seems to affect the intensity of other colors more than red. I will have to make some measurements to sort this out, but it is pretty obvious that the color processing is quite different than other sets.

The whites are blazing and seem brighter than the lamp based sets. Of course, the OOB settings are hideous, just like other sets. Blacks seem to be slightly better than the lamp based sets. Most of the controls seem to operate similarly, with the colors appearing to be significantly more saturated. One interesting thing that I noticed is that turning up the maximum contrast in the service menu allows your to really get a lot of brightness out of the set, but the whites do crush when you do. What was interesting is just how intense they can get.

My initial impression is that the set is likely capable of slightly better performance than the lamp based sets. Calibration will inform that opinion with more specific results, and I need to throw some more challenging sources and test signals at this set. It is not going to be a knockout difference, however. I think it will be competitive with similarly sized sets in performance, and will likely be brighter than PDPs with no possibility for burn-in. Certainly it has a place in the market, and when the second generation sets come in at substantially lower prices, I think it will be clear that there is a market for the technology. That is, if they can make it work without problems, and make it more field serviceable.

I will report more info as I collect it. This week is busy and next week I will be camping with scouts, so it will be a couple of weeks before I get to make any measurements or a more in-depth evaluation.

Icaillo,
Thank you for your initial observations. I and I’m sure many others here are looking forward to your calibration results.
Enjoy your scout outing.

I have to qualify any results that I might report ahead of time. I use the i1 pro and the C5 meters, and there may be significant limitations to both in application to this technology. If I can borrow a more precise meter to evaluate this limitation I will do so. I think this is an important issue that needs to be quantified rather than just poked at subjectively.

The moniker is LCAILLO, BTW. Lots of folks don't realize that the first character is L, due to the sans font. It is the first initial of my first name and the first letters of my last. It came from my old username assigned on the university UNIX system where I had my first email address. I just stick with it for familiarity.

Sorry for the misspelling.
I have the eye-one LT and I’m aware of the limitations that were mentioned previously, when measuring LaserVue sets. Thanks for pointing that out.

We have heard hearsay that there are limitations, but until someone shows spectral data from the i1 and a more precise instrument, it is impossible to be sure how useful or misleading measurements may be.

One of the dealers that I service finally got one of these sets for demo. I have not been able to make any measurements yet but did get to play with the set some and have some subjective observations. I will report measurements and calibration results later.


Thank you for your observations. I was wondering if you could comment on some of the other aspects of the Laservue versus the lamp-based DLPs?

1. How is the ambient noise from the set? I'd assume since it draws less power (therefore less heat) and has no colorwheel that there should be little if any noise from things like a fan.
2. Does the set power-up immediately, or does it take a significant amount of time like Mits' other DLPs?
3. How's the geometry? I'd hope with the extra cost they'd make the frame sturdier, and the set seems to be heavier than the lamp-based models. Hopefully that would make it less susceptible to the geometry issues in the 737s and 837s.
4. Are rainbows less apparent on the Laservue?

There's been a lot of discussion about how the price of the Laservue needs to come down - here's some more info:

I was in a large retailer in Houston this weekend (F**'s), and they had lowered the price by $1500. Not a clearance sale - the sales guy said *their* cost had been reduced. So, if you're a pessimist, this could signal the beginning of the end (dumping); if you're an optimist, they are beginning to move down the price curve.

(Ok, so I think I'm within the rules which discourage posting of dealer/price information).

-Reid

Thank you for your observations. I was wondering if you could comment on some of the other aspects of the Laservue versus the lamp-based DLPs?

1. How is the ambient noise from the set? I'd assume since it draws less power (therefore less heat) and has no colorwheel that there should be little if any noise from things like a fan.
2. Does the set power-up immediately, or does it take a significant amount of time like Mits' other DLPs?
3. How's the geometry? I'd hope with the extra cost they'd make the frame sturdier, and the set seems to be heavier than the lamp-based models. Hopefully that would make it less susceptible to the geometry issues in the 737s and 837s.
4. Are rainbows less apparent on the Laservue?

I did not notice any noise from the set, but will make a point of checking.

It seemed to come up faster than the other sets but I did not time it.

The geometry was pretty good, better than the one lamp based set that I compared in the vertical lines.

I could not see any rainbows, even when trying, but I have a hard time seeing them on the lamp based sets as well. I expect them to be similar in this regard.

I did not notice any noise from the set, but will make a point of checking.

It seemed to come up faster than the other sets but I did not time it.

The geometry was pretty good, better than the one lamp based set that I compared in the vertical lines.

I could not see any rainbows, even when trying, but I have a hard time seeing them on the lamp based sets as well. I expect them to be similar in this regard.

I concur with all that you say from my calibration of the laservue. I did notice some of the sparkling affect, but it wasn't overwhelming at all. I think the rainbow affect only affects bulb based units since they have the color wheel and the rainbow affect occurs due to the color wheel. Since the laservue has 3 independent light sources, you shouldn't see the rainbow affect.

Of course I'm like lcallio. I don't see it either or I'm just used to it.

I am very interested in seeing your results as well. I want to see how they concur with mine. :D

Not sure what you mean by sparkling, but guess that it is SSE. This is sensitive to how high you run the contrast on any recent RPTV screen, and the Laservue does show it some. I did find myself turning the contrast down for that reason, as well as because the set was so darn intense in the whites. The lamp based sets have the same but it is not as noticeable because they are not as intense.

I've read about concerns of laser liabilities with front projection. Any thoughts on possibly using a very high gain screen to allow the actual beams to be utilized with reduced intensity? I'm willing to wait for laser front projection, seeing what it is capable of, as many other front projection fans. No mirror. No plastic screens.

I would not expect laser front projection for consumer use in the near future.

Not sure what you mean by sparkling, but guess that it is SSE. This is sensitive to how high you run the contrast on any recent RPTV screen, and the Laservue does show it some. I did find myself turning the contrast down for that reason, as well as because the set was so darn intense in the whites. The lamp based sets have the same but it is not as noticeable because they are not as intense.

I thought there was something more specific with the laservue that I read about. However, once it was properly calibrated it wasn't nearly as noticable.

Has there been any more word on these:

"In the handout there are three series... 1.) L65-A90 current production model 2.) A81 Series (available in 67" and 75") and finally 3.) the DIAMOND series A91 (available in 67" and 75"). There will be no 73" LaserVue."

I am ready to pull the trigger on the 73837, but wonder if the new Laservues will come more in line with price/performance ratio. I talked to a Mits rep at my local high end store and he even admitted the current Laservue wasn't worth the extra money.

I thought there was something more specific with the laservue that I read about. However, once it was properly calibrated it wasn't nearly as noticable.

You are thinking of speckle. It is the reason for the orbiting screen. I could not see any speckle in the set at all.

Has there been any more word on these:

"In the handout there are three series... 1.) L65-A90 current production model 2.) A81 Series (available in 67" and 75") and finally 3.) the DIAMOND series A91 (available in 67" and 75"). There will be no 73" LaserVue."

I am ready to pull the trigger on the 73837, but wonder if the new Laservues will come more in line with price/performance ratio. I talked to a Mits rep at my local high end store and he even admitted the current Laservue wasn't worth the extra money.

Did this rep give you any indication if MITS is even selling any of these sets?

Not yet. The last word I got from a sales rep was no earlier than fall.

Originally posted by paul416:
Did this rep give you any indication if MITS is even selling any of these sets?

I didn't ask, but he didn't say anything about sales. He really didn't talk about the Laservue much. When I started asking whether to wait for the 2nd gen Laservue vs. 837s is when he mentioned they really did not offer more than twice the value. We both agreed the blacks/colors were better, but not that much.

Lack of rainbow effect, less electricity, less fan noise, and no bulbs to age and then replace regularly are all also big wins for LaserVue. But for most, those are still overwhelmed by the current pricing.

I saw rainbows.

One of the reviews I read, said it still had Rainbows.
http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/hdtvs/3110/mitsubishi-l65-a90-65-inch-laservue-rear-projection-hdtv-test-bench-page3.html
"However, the color “rainbows” that can sometimes be seen on sequential color displays as you move your eyes rapidly to one side were quite evident."


Also almost every advantage of Laser DLP applies to LED DLP at 1/3 the price.

One of the reviews (sound and vision?) I read, said it still had Rainbows.

Also almost every advantage of Laser DLP happens in LED DLP at 1/3 the price.

Actually it looks like unfortunately that the LED sets are having issues that samsung is not willing to fix. So no tech is perfect. Just check out the owners threads for details.

Actually it looks like unfortunately that the LED sets are having issues that samsung is not willing to fix. So no tech is perfect. Just check out the owners threads for details.

I sure don't have any with mine. No it's not perfect, I suppose, but for the price it's more than a world-beater.

What issues are you referring to?

I sure don't have any with mine. No it's not perfect, I suppose, but for the price it's more than a world-beater.

What issues are you referring to?

I believe it has something to do with the light engine. The owners threads have more specifics. What six is that Sammy isn't fixing the prob. They're only offering a swap with a smaller LCD or plasma.

Actually it looks like unfortunately that the LED sets are having issues that samsung is not willing to fix. So no tech is perfect. Just check out the owners threads for details.


I do lots of service on Samsung and have not heard of any such issues. I am not a Samsung ASC but communicate daily with other techs who are, and I do have access to all of the Samsung service info, tips, bulletins, etc. Spreading rumors without even enough information to follow up on to check it out is really not helpful. Someone posts a few times about not being able to get service in the way they want it and it can get turned into assumptions that a company has big problems. You have to keep things in context, and you provided no context nor real info beyond hearsay.

The primary issue with LED is the difficulty in getting accurate color reproduction with narrow band source lighting, which is the same issue with Laservue. The degree to which it is satisfactorily solved in color decoding is uncertain because of limitations in most meters and software, or in the measurements that most calibrators are using. As for service issues, I have heard of few problems, and most of the parts seem to be readily available.

Lack of rainbow effect, less electricity, less fan noise, and no bulbs to age and then replace regularly are all also big wins for LaserVue. But for most, those are still overwhelmed by the current pricing.

I keep hearing the claim of no RBE, but I don't think that it is so much caused by color wheels as the moving of the mirrors. If you look at the effect, it is a horizontal streaking. With lasers they still have to modulate light on any pixel with mirrors, and the mirrors do not move any faster with laser or LED than with lamp based lighting.

I did not notice RBE, but have only viewed for an hour or so and did not really try. I have to really try to see them on certain types of images.

Huh. I'd always heard that RBE was caused by the color wheel, but if they are still being seen on LaserVue, then yeah, it must be the mirrors instead.

My perception has always been that it's due to the simple fact that colors are cycling. Which will be the case with ALL single-chip DLP implementations. And indeed, I've seen reports that people have seen rainbow effect with both LED and laser based sets. The variable is how fast the colors are cycling. The faster you cycle the colors, the harder it is for people to see it (or the smaller percentage of people that can see it). Even current wheel based sets have less RBE than the earlier ones. They cycle colors for one frame more often than the earlier sets.

I do lots of service on Samsung and have not heard of any such issues. I am not a Samsung ASC but communicate daily with other techs who are, and I do have access to all of the Samsung service info, tips, bulletins, etc. Spreading rumors without even enough information to follow up on to check it out is really not helpful. Someone posts a few times about not being able to get service in the way they want it and it can get turned into assumptions that a company has big problems. You have to keep things in context, and you provided no context nor real info beyond hearsay.

The primary issue with LED is the difficulty in getting accurate color reproduction with narrow band source lighting, which is the same issue with Laservue. The degree to which it is satisfactorily solved in color decoding is uncertain because of limitations in most meters and software, or in the measurements that most calibrators are using. As for service issues, I have heard of few problems, and most of the parts seem to be readily available.

OK, I do not spread hearsay. What I said above was fact. All I said was that users in the owners forums were starting to report that they are having issues. That is fact. All you have to do is check the owners forums to see that. As far as if what they are reporting is hearsay I can't comment on that.

All I was trying to say is that all tech has it's set of issues. That's the case with ant tech.

Greetings - perhaps this is old news, but I have checked back to posts from July 1 and have not seen mention of it.

Mitsubishi is apparently lowering the suggested retail prices on their first generation 65" LaserVue televisions

Several sites are reporting the average retail price of Mitsubishi’s 65-inch LaserVue laser-powered Laser TV have been slashed by $500

Full text of the article may be found here;
http://laser-tv.org/
(http://laser-tv.org/)
While $500 isn't what I would call price "slashing", it could signal the gradual closing out of the current model in advance of the models to be released this fall?

Regards,
Spence

Greetings - perhaps this is old news, but I have checked back to posts from July 1 and have not seen mention of it.

Mitsubishi is apparently lowering the suggested retail prices on their first generation 65" LaserVue televisions



Full text of the article may be found here;
http://laser-tv.org/
(http://laser-tv.org/)
While $500 isn't what I would call price "slashing", it could signal the gradual closing out of the current model in advance of the models to be released this fall?

Regards,
Spence

WOW! That 500 should make those Laservue sets go flying out the door-NOT!

I met a Mitsubishi sales rep two months ago, and he slipped me an announcement being given to key dealers. It says the current L65-A90 will never get a 73″. The series will be replaced by the A81 series (65″ and 75″), AND the Diamond A91 series (67″ and 75″).

The cut sheet I got was titled “2009 Laservue TV Product Overview.” According to this document, the A81 “step-up features” over the L65-A90 include: “Smooth 120Hz Film Motion,” “Advanced Video Calibration,” “New Cinema Mode,” “New JADE Activity Based User Interface,” and “Energy Star 3.0 Qualified.” The A91 has all those enhancements too, but adds: “Variable Smooth 240Hz Film Motion,” “ISFccc Advance Video Adjustments,” “Internet Media Ready,” “RS-232C,” “AMX Device Discovery,” and
“Brushed Metal Design.”

That’s all I know. I guess you can assume from this that the current Laservue is already obsolete. I wish Mitsubishi managers would understand that the key to their success is lots and lots of early adopters. Same for the Blu-ray DVD industry. They are trying to get maximum profit from early production. So is Blu-ray. All this is doing is causing people to hold off. That just might kill the whole deal.

ATTENTION ALL YOU MITSUBISHI MBAs: Learn from VHS vs Betamax; DVD vs VHS; CD vs Vinyl; Microsoft vs Apple. Price and market your Laservue so that middle America can afford one. We all know it is much cheaper to build a laser TV than it is to make a plasma or LCD. Don’t be greedy and you may change the direction of the TV industry. Your real success will come from market share, not early profit margins. Screw this up with dumb strategy in a terrible economy, and you’ll end up with just a few collector items out in the field that a handful of high rollers bought.

I want one. I WANT ONE BADLY!! But I refuse to be taken for a sucker.

I keep hearing the claim of no RBE, but I don't think that it is so much caused by color wheels as the moving of the mirrors. If you look at the effect, it is a horizontal streaking. With lasers they still have to modulate light on any pixel with mirrors, and the mirrors do not move any faster with laser or LED than with lamp based lighting.

I did not notice RBE, but have only viewed for an hour or so and did not really try. I have to really try to see them on certain types of images.

FWIW, I also didn't notice RBE with the LV, and I tried pretty hard. I do see it rarely on my Mits front-projector which has a 6x color wheel, but not often enough to bother me. Usually just on very dark scenes with lots of motion.

With due respect to Icaillo, I don't believe RBE is caused by the mirrors, its the color cycling required by a single-element microdisplay. With a color wheel, this is relatively slow. With LED's and lasers, this is much faster, since there's no mechanical aspect to it. (I don't have specific numbers off the cuff, sorry). I have had the chance to watch a SIM3 3-element DLP projector on a 135" screens, and have not ever been able to see RBE. And I'm not surprised - it shouldn't be there.

A DLP panel is easily capable of displaying around 30000 color frames per second. This is what the TI DLP development kits document. Its not the peak rate of the devices, its just what's supported in a relatively cheap development kit. I believe production light engines use that potential to improve color and brightness at much lower fps. But the underlying switching speed is really pretty amazing. Consider that each frame has 24 bits of color, so at 30K fps, there's a *whole* lot of switching going on!! On a 3-element DLP projector, you effectively have 3 times that switching potential - so you ought to get a brighter, more accurate picture.

So, if you do the obviously simple math, this is 1000 times the 30Hz rate, or 250 times the 120Hz rate. This is way beyond what a human can perceive.

-Reid

been hearing about Mitsu coming out with laser for a long time now but didn't know it ever actually did.

looks like it did but they only have a 65" and its 6k.

its even slimmer then samsungs slim dlps but its still not as thin as lcd or plasma let alone samsungs super thin led lcds that they make as large as 55" (i have the UN55B8000)

so why would you pay 6k for a mitsu dlp just cus its a little thinner and uses laser?

they are screwed on that venture and out of their mind on the price

i do like the looks of them and i'm sure laser is great for dlp but its still dlp and still rear projection and still thicker then plasma or lcd, yet costs more.

looks like a fail to me.

"Head to head against LCD and plasma sets we had trouble finding the differences, other than the color depth (particularly in the reds, almost too much so, though we're sure you can tweak that). Have no fear: the blacks are black, the brights are bright, and the viewing angle puts DLP to shame. That said, we're hearing price points are going to be more comparable to plasma and LCD than DLP, so Mitsubishi might have its work cut out for it in convincing consumers that these new "chubby," 10-inch thick TVs are the way to go. We're not entirely convinced ourselves, though one aspect can't be disputed: LaserVue draws under 200 watts, about half that of LCD and a third of plasma."

yep total fail and its actually 7k at most retailers just for the 65"

7k for a 65" thats thicker then the plasmas and lcds you can get in that size for about half that and the mitsu sounds like it will absolutely need calibration just like its other dlps did. too much red? yuck way to charge 7k for that.

I met a Mitsubishi sales rep two months ago, and he slipped me an announcement being given to key dealers. It says the current L65-A90 will never get a 73″. The series will be replaced by the A81 series (65″ and 75″), AND the Diamond A91 series (67″ and 75″).

The cut sheet I got was titled “2009 Laservue TV Product Overview.” According to this document, the A81 “step-up features” over the L65-A90 include: “Smooth 120Hz Film Motion,” “Advanced Video Calibration,” “New Cinema Mode,” “New JADE Activity Based User Interface,” and “Energy Star 3.0 Qualified.” The A91 has all those enhancements too, but adds: “Variable Smooth 240Hz Film Motion,” “ISFccc Advance Video Adjustments,” “Internet Media Ready,” “RS-232C,” “AMX Device Discovery,” and
“Brushed Metal Design.”

That’s all I know. I guess you can assume from this that the current Laservue is already obsolete. I wish Mitsubishi managers would understand that the key to their success is lots and lots of early adopters. Same for the Blu-ray DVD industry. They are trying to get maximum profit from early production. So is Blu-ray. All this is doing is causing people to hold off. That just might kill the whole deal.

ATTENTION ALL YOU MITSUBISHI MBAs: Learn from VHS vs Betamax; DVD vs VHS; CD vs Vinyl; Microsoft vs Apple. Price and market your Laservue so that middle America can afford one. We all know it is much cheaper to build a laser TV than it is to make a plasma or LCD. Don’t be greedy and you may change the direction of the TV industry. Your real success will come from market share, not early profit margins. Screw this up with dumb strategy in a terrible economy, and you’ll end up with just a few collector items out in the field that a handful of high rollers bought.

I want one. I WANT ONE BADLY!! But I refuse to be taken for a sucker.

+1

just talk to a dealer and even said these mitsu laservue are about 3 years too late and 4k too expensive. he said its going nowhere.

total waste of money and time on their part. unless like they said they lower the price dramatically like more then half.

ppl were getting samsung led dlp in 67" for 1500 and lower towards the end. with samsung dropping out of dlp's its mitsu's chance to shine cus their other dlps were ugly and terrible color out of the box and lost miserably to samsung.

laservue dlp can be good but its still thicker then plasma and lcd so it has to be cheaper not more expensive.

why would you get a chubby 65" mitsu laservue dlp for 7k when you can get a Sharp or Sony flat lcd in the same sise for 4k and even that is high.

like i said samsung led dlp 67" which is 2" bigger went for 1500 and lower towards the end.

mitsu dropped the ball on this and i hope their greed puts them out of business.

WOW! That 500 should make those Laservue sets go flying out the door-NOT!

yeah add another 0 to that. they need to slash 5000 off the 7k price bringing it to the accept 2k price that other 65" dlps go for. and actually as i've said you can get led dlp 2" bigger then that at 67" for lower then 2k.

+1

why would you get a chubby 65" mitsu laservue dlp for 7k when you can get a Sharp or Sony flat lcd in the same sise for 4k and even that is high.

mitsu dropped the ball on this and i hope their greed puts them out of business.
I don't know about you, but I watch the front of my television set, not the side. Unless you're going to hang it on a wall (how many people do you know willing and able to hang a 65-inch tv on the wall?), the Laservue depth is sufficiently skinny. If you don't hang it on a wall, it is skinnier than the stand it will sit on that holds all your peripherals like the Tivo, the game system, the receiver, the blu-ray player, etc.
I looked online and I didn't see a 65-inch Sony or Samsung LCD for $4K. I saw a low-end Sharp LCD and Panasonic plasma. Guess what? The depths of both sets are listed as >15inches because they need a wide base to keep them from toppling over. I guess that makes them chubby?
Is 7K too much for all but a few people? Sure, but the first-gen blu-ray players were $1000+, and that soaking of early adopters didn't make me swear off blu-ray players for all eternity. I'm willing to wait and see what Mits can do on their second generation attempt which will hopefully be about by Fall.

I don't know about you, but I watch the front of my television set, not the side. Unless you're going to hang it on a wall (how many people do you know willing and able to hang a 65-inch tv on the wall?), the Laservue depth is sufficiently skinny. If you don't hang it on a wall, it is skinnier than the stand it will sit on that holds all your peripherals like the Tivo, the game system, the receiver, the blu-ray player, etc.
I looked online and I didn't see a 65-inch Sony or Samsung LCD for $4K. I saw a low-end Sharp LCD and Panasonic plasma. Guess what? The depths of both sets are listed as >15inches because they need a wide base to keep them from toppling over. I guess that makes them chubby?
Is 7K too much for all but a few people? Sure, but the first-gen blu-ray players were $1000+, and that soaking of early adopters didn't make me swear off blu-ray players for all eternity. I'm willing to wait and see what Mits can do on their second generation attempt which will hopefully be about by Fall.

The 1st color TV was more expensive than a brand new car, so what ? You are comparing apples and oranges. What really counts is the competition today and for 4K you can get the new Sony or the Samsung 65" LCD. For less trhan that you get the new Panasonic V10 which is much better than the LCDs in my opinion. I didn't see the LV but there are many reports about not so stellar picture. If it looks like the other DLPs, any modern flat screen will smoke it. New generation ? It must be half the price and a much better picture to face the new flat screens. The current LV is a big fiasco, no matter how you try to decribe it.

The 1st color TV was more expensive than a brand new car, so what ? You are comparing apples and oranges. What really counts is the competition today and for 4K you can get the new Sony or the Samsung 65" LCD. For less trhan that you get the new Panasonic V10 which is much better than the LCDs in my opinion. I didn't see the LV but there are many reports about not so stellar picture. If it looks like the other DLPs, any modern flat screen will smoke it. New generation ? It must be half the price and a much better picture to face the new flat screens. The current LV is a big fiasco, no matter how you try to decribe it.

I wasn't talking about the specific Laservue so much as the technology and its future.

If you don't think laser-based DLP technology is worth pursuing based on its 1st generation, then what do you make of OLED? Two years after it's introduction, and it is still >$2000 for an 11-inch display. Based on competition today, I can get an 11-inch display for less than $100. Does that mean OLED is dead, has no future, and companies shouldn't bother with follow-up displays? If you say it does, then you must know more than Samsung, Sony, LG, etc. There are dozens of example of the first generation of a new product not being competitive, but future revs were able to gain significant market share. Do you remember the first portable Macintosh? A total disaster (twice as heavy and three times as expensive as most other laptops on the market), but that didn't stop Apple from trying again and improving it to the point that their laptops are now considered top-tier. The first XBox was more expensive than the PS2, sold less than a quarter the number of units,and they lost a ton of money on each unit. Many people said M$ should give up because they couldn't compete with Sony. One generation later, the 360 outsells the PS3, it costs less, and Microsoft reports it's entertainment division is in the black for the last fiscal year while Sony is still losing money on each PS3 sold.

As for Laservue, some people have reported they didn't think the picture was any better than other DLPs after seeing it in the store (and we all know how objective viewing conditions are in the average tv store). Some people reported they thought the picture was great. Hardly enough evidence to condemn the technology for all eternity. Meanwhile, I've only see two semi-official reviews of the set and both noted the picture was great. HD Guru's review said:
"To wrap up, the L-65A90 has its place among the best HDTVs in the market today.... The HD Guru awards the Mitsubishi L65A90 its highest ♥♥♥♥ rating."

So while I won't be rushing about to buy the current model, the jury is still out on the future of the technology.

OLED is a great example of an expensive technology that really looks wonderful. I don't know anybody who wouldn't love a 70" OLED in the future. The problem is, once again, the LV is perceived as another DLP with very bright colors (not necessarily a good thing). DLPs will be dead next year and I guess everything "non flat" will be dead as well. The LV was actually developed to reduce costs not to be the king of the hill. I respect your opinion and to be honest I would love to replace my 73927 with a 75" LV if they can match a high-end plasma. So far, however, here is how I see it:

-Mitsubishi launched a prototype at very high price with big flaw (light leaking).

-The picture quality is more "DLP like" than "Kuro like".

-The vivid colors maybe good for a cartoon but not for movies. People who praised it talked about the colors, not anything else.

-Sound and Vision loved it, they also loved the 3 pages Mitsubishi ad on the same issue.

-Timing couldn't be worse for the LV launching. I think Mitsubishi didn't believe Sony,Panasonic and Samsung could come up with 65" flat screens below $ 5K.

The new generation ? Well, it must be cheapper , much cheapper. Must be revolucionary, picture-wise. We shall see.

I agree that there seems to be little point in "thinness" in 65", plus, TV's. The point has been made that the stand that contains the components is deeper than RP TV's, as are the more capable sets of speakers that sit to either side. But, I'm reminded that the superior Beta VCR system was buried by VHS because of consumer votes. Yes, I'm aware of the reasons for this consumer preference, but this doesn't set aside the fact that a technically inferior system won out in the marketplace. I hope that RP lives on, because in the near and medium term, it's the most cost-effective way to deliver quality pictures in 70" and up sizes.

I got sucked into the Sony Quallia 006 70" SXRD at a premium price, only to fall victim to the Optical Block failures that Sony's SXRD technology has experienced. Because of that, I won't be paying any premium prices for ANY new technology TV's. I'll wait for a track record on the Laservue, before jumping in. It seems that all too often, the early adopter gets taken for a ride.

I got sucked into the Sony Quallia 006 70" SXRD at a premium price, only to fall victim to the Optical Block failures that Sony's SXRD technology has experienced. Because of that, I won't be paying any premium prices for ANY new technology TV's. I'll wait for a track record on the Laservue, before jumping in. It seems that all too often, the early adopter gets taken for a ride.

If you go back to one of my earlier posts you'll see this was my biggest complaint about the Laservue. A high priced prototype with a minimal warranty is not a happy combination. It's one thing to charge a premium for new technology, but at what your Sony and the Laservue cost a long term warranty to protect those making the heavy investment is a must. Otherwise, all their doing is making the early adoptor pay a premium to field test the product and absorb all the risk for those that come later.

Ted, I agree with you. Check the warranty Mits is offering. I wouldn't have bought one no matter how good the picture was the day I took delivery.