Mitsubishi's 65-inch Laser TV prototype Revealed! Overpriced? [Text View] - Page 2

hdnola

02-24-08, 02:32 PM

Did JVC have a laser based front projector at CES this year?

http://www.oled-display.info/novalux-show-home-theater-jvc-projector-with-necsel-lasers-at-ces-2008

Novalux Show Home Theater JVC Projector with Necsel Lasers at CES 2008

Posted January 7th, 2008 by admin
in

* ces-2008
* jvc
* necsel
* News and Infos
* novalux

Novalux, Inc., developer of Necsel™ laser technology, will demonstrate a proof-of-concept JVC home theater laser projector during the 2008 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), January 7-10 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The demo will illustrate the enhanced image quality Necsel lasers provide when combined with JVC’s proprietary D-ILA® (Digital Direct Drive Image Light Amplifier) high-definition (HD) projection technology.

“We’ve taken JVC’s latest home theater projector, removed the lamp from inside and replaced it with Necsel lasers,” said Greg Niven, Novalux executive vice president of marketing. “What viewers will see is how our lasers are an ideal complement to JVC’s advanced LCOS technology. In the past we’ve shown significant advances in laser TV technology; with this concept demonstration we’ll premiere what we believe will be the next big thing in home theater.”

The demo projector is based on a JVC D-ILA front projector known for its high native contrast ratio. The projector uses a 0.7-inch full HD (1920 x 1080 pixels) D-ILA device combined with a high-performance optical engine. For the demo, Novalux replaced the lamp within the optical engine with red, green and blue Necsel lasers. The marriage of D-ILA technology and Necsel lasers further enhanced the projector’s contrast ratio. Necsel technology also provides true laser color and a longer lifetime than the conventional lamp it replaced.

Necsel lasers are slated for use in host of lighting and display devices. These range from laser high-definition projection TVs (HDTVs) to embedded projectors in cell phones and PDAs. The company also recently demonstrated the first laser LCD-TV Back Light Unit (BLU) and prototype laser architectural tube lighting.

In addition to the concept JVC home theater laser projector, Novalux will demonstrate several of its prototype and proof-of-concept technologies during CES 2008 — including the company’s new “Necsel-T” high-power laser module, new green and blue Necsel pico-projection lasers and the latest in laser tube lighting. Novalux will hold the demos from January 7th to 10th at the MGM Grand in Las Vegas. Visits will be by appointment only.
source:novalux
.

htwaits

02-24-08, 02:45 PM

Novalux Show Home Theater JVC Projector with Necsel Lasers at CES 2008

Novalux, Inc., developer of Necsel™ laser technology, will demonstrate a proof-of-concept JVC home theater laser projector during the 2008 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), January 7-10 in Las Vegas, Nevada.That's very interesting.

Keep in mind that it's Novalux doing the demonstration and not JVC. The projector they modified was JVC's current model. It could have as easily been Sony's LCoS projector or any number of DLP projectors.

I wouldn't expect front projectors from any manufacturers using Novalux lasers before 2009, or more likely, 2010. I don't have any industry inside information. My opinion comes from watching new technology being introduced over the past five years. I'm no expert. :rolleyes:

hdnola

02-24-08, 03:26 PM

That's very interesting.

Keep in mind that it's Novalux doing the demonstration and not JVC. The projector they modified was JVC's current model. It could have as easily been Sony's LCoS projector or any number of DLP projectors.

I wouldn't expect front projectors from any manufacturers using Novalux lasers before 2009, or more likely, 2010. I don't have any industry inside information. My opinion comes from watching new technology being introduced over the past five years. I'm no expert. :rolleyes:

mitsubishi is using their own lasers so the might do front projection, but not in 2008 maybe 09/10

another company doing fp lasers http://www.es.com/products/displays/ESLaser/

hdnola

03-09-08, 02:20 PM

Mitsubishi Laser TV: Seeing Red

http://img170.imageshack.us/img170/9431/redlazervy1.jpg

At the core of Laser TV is a trio of red, green, and blue lasers. Historically, the color red has been one of the harder colors to reproduce on television. Black light can be difficult too, often resulting in shades of gray. In the still above from the apocalyptic planet, Mustafar (http://www.starwars.com/databank/location/mustafar/), as seen in the Star Wars movie, Mitisubishi Electric shows off its impressive red laser capabilities at this year’s Consumer Electronics Show. Mitsubishi is the world leader in manufacturing red laser diodes, capturing a large portion of the overall market share. Laser TV also boasts very high contrast ratios and black levels, simply because the lasers can be completely turned off, creating amazing blacks.

Mitsubishi’s Laser TV is expected to debut this Fall under the LAZRTV brand name.

http://laser-tv.org/2008/mitsubishi-seeing-red/

lcaillo

03-09-08, 03:50 PM

So do they make a black laser to produce that black light that you mentioned?

mcnabney

03-09-08, 11:16 PM

Mitsubishi Laser TV: Seeing Red
Laser TV also boasts very high contrast ratios and black levels, simply because the lasers can be completely turned off, creating amazing blacks.

LEDs also turn off, so there really isn't much difference in black level and contrast potential. The laser benefit is primarily based upon coherence, brightness, and color depth over LED solutions. The light from the LED will still spread (even though it is very-nearly coherent itself) while the light aimed at each single pixel will stay very sharp. The image from a laser can be very bright and theoretically allow more color, although I don't think media standards will be providing it anytime soon. I haven't seen it in person, but would be curious if the RPTV "sweet spot" is a thing of the past with this technology.

lcaillo

03-10-08, 04:21 PM

Like LEDs, the color performance is also dependent on the spectra of the devices. Just producing more saturated colors does not mean that you will produce all colors more accurately. We'll see.

Rievax

03-10-08, 08:12 PM

" Laser TV also boasts very high contrast ratios and black levels, simply because the lasers can be completely turned off, creating amazing blacks."

Hi,
The DMD modulates the light source to the whole screen area all at once. I cant figure out how the light source could be selectively turned off just for the black areas of the image.

davegow

03-11-08, 12:51 AM

The DMD modulates the light source to the whole screen area all at once. I cant figure out how the light source could be selectively turned off just for the black areas of the image.

It isn't. In a DLP chip, the position of the mirrors determines how much light is sent to each pixel location on the screen. What turning the laser off relates to is the color selection. It allows less stray light between pulses (unlike the hot lamps that are on all the time, shining through parts of the spinning color wheel).

westa6969

03-11-08, 06:14 AM

So do they make a black laser to produce that black light that you mentioned?
I believe they would have to combine all laser colors for black or what may be deemed as false black and/or turn off the black area's like an LED that the void provides non reflective light and blacks. The magic will be in how they do it and get the steps of gray for shadow details to define the WoW factor beyond bright colors. This could be the last stand for RPTV's and hopefully the VP matches the lasers well enough to provide Innovative Black Levels and Shadow Details to go with what may prove to be a best of class panel. Anyone know if this is going to have an advanced Iris much like an LCOS has?

Per Wikipedia:BLACK

"Black is the color of objects that do not emit or reflect light in any part of the visible spectrum; they absorb all such frequencies of light. Mixing paints, inks or other pigments of all colors in theory eventually forms a mixture which absorbs all light and so appears black. Thus black is sometimes wrongly called 'a mixture of all colors', while in fact an object emitting or reflecting all colors is perceived as white. Sometimes black is described as an "achromatic color", but in practice it can be considered a color, as in expressions like "black cat" or "black paint".

Black can be defined as the visual impression experienced in directions from which no visible light reaches the eye. (This makes a contrast with whiteness, the impression of any combination of colors of light that equally stimulates all three types of color-sensitive visual receptors.)

Pigments that absorb light rather than reflect it back to the eye "look black". A black pigment can, however, result from a combination of several pigments that collectively absorb all colors. If appropriate proportions of three primary pigments are mixed, the result reflects so little light as to be called "black".

This provides two superficially opposite but actually complementary descriptions of black. Black is the lack of all colors of light, or an exhaustive combination of multiple colors of pigment.
"

lcaillo

03-11-08, 12:27 PM

Uh, westa...I was kidding.

mcnabney

03-11-08, 01:02 PM

I believe they would have to combine all laser colors for black or what may be deemed as false black and/or turn off the black area's like an LED that the void provides non reflective light and blacks.

Uhm, no.

Combining RGB pigments creates black which absorbs all light and reflects none.

Combined RGB light creates white. Just as white light is broken into its component colors using a prism, colors can be combined to get back to white.

A black pixel would not be illuminated at any time.

The advantage that the laser has here in black levels is that the coherent light of the laser will not spill-over into adjacent pixels.

SIMJEDI

03-11-08, 11:28 PM

The advantage that the laser has here in black levels is that the coherent light of the laser will not spill-over into adjacent pixels.

Is this how the laser will work? Aiming the beams directly onto each pixel in a scanning motion? If so, this would be amazing. They could adjust the intensity per pixel for wonderful shadow detail.

They could even do away with LCD, DLP, LCOS and any other kind of technology. They could have the laser directly draw the picture onto something.

peace

davegow

03-12-08, 12:40 AM

Is this how the laser will work? Aiming the beams directly onto each pixel in a scanning motion? ...

No. Like any DLP chip the mirrors do the aiming. There are three lasers one for each color and they strobe on and off in turn. One laser beam hits the entire chip at one time.

vtms

03-12-08, 08:17 AM

No. Like any DLP chip the mirrors do the aiming. There are three lasers one for each color and they strobe on and off in turn. One laser beam hits the entire chip at one time.
Yes, which is why individual pixels won't be able to be switched off completely. So I don't expect a revolution when it comes to contrast and shadow detail. If the laser beam could scan individual pixels that would be a different story. Microvision has scanning lasers in their pico projectors. I wonder why the company can't scale their lasers up and build the perfect RPTV/FPTV.

davegow

03-12-08, 08:27 AM

HDTV is still very much a work in progress, and I'm sure will continue for some time. I doubt we will see one "perfect" technology that will dominate the way CRT direct view has until recently. At least not for a long time.

What will "the thing" be in 20 years? Who knows? 3D holograms like in Star Wars? Display walls like in the "Future 2025" Discovery Channel show? Maybe direct transmission of an image into the brain, bypassing a display device completely?

Come to think of it, we had that last one back in the 60s. It was called LSD.

mcnabney

03-12-08, 05:54 PM

Yes, which is why individual pixels won't be able to be switched off completely. So I don't expect a revolution when it comes to contrast and shadow detail. If the laser beam could scan individual pixels that would be a different story. Microvision has scanning lasers in their pico projectors. I wonder why the company can't scale their lasers up and build the perfect RPTV/FPTV.

Actually, they will. The light reflecting off of each micromirror will remain coherent. So the 'pixel' on the screen that is assigned to that micromirror will only be lit when the mirror is in the reflecting position. When it is away that little bit of display screen will not receive any light at all. The pixels all around it might be lit, but nothing will spill into it. A bulbs light does not become coherent after being reflected off of a micromirror. The easiest way to demonstrate this is to display a black image with one pixel lit. A bulb will be a little blob with milky edges, an LED will be a tighter blob, the laser should be a clean pixel, kind of like an LCD screen.

Also, there is work being done on a scanning laser system. It would work in a similar fashion as CRTs. Don't expect it anytime soon, although it would end the era of fixed-pixel displays.

mcnabney

03-12-08, 05:55 PM

davegow

03-12-08, 06:43 PM

..Also, there is work being done on a scanning laser system. It would work in a similar fashion as CRTs. Don't expect it anytime soon, although it would end the era of fixed-pixel displays.

This would have to have some depth, so all those "hang it on the wall" fans might prefer to keep their plasmas and LCDs. In addition, it would be really important to keep dust out of the cavity, since even a tiny speck on the light output surface would be noticable in laser light. But you're right, this would be a promising technology.

mcnabney

03-12-08, 11:21 PM

This would have to have some depth, so all those "hang it on the wall" fans might prefer to keep their plasmas and LCDs. In addition, it would be really important to keep dust out of the cavity, since even a tiny speck on the light output surface would be noticable in laser light. But you're right, this would be a promising technology.

I think the target use would be front projectors. High brightness. No bulb. Sharp image with a lot of color. I think you will see them first in cell phones. Yes, in cell phones. You can project a little hi-res display anywhere.

spocko

03-13-08, 04:54 AM

Actually, they will. The light reflecting off of each micromirror will remain coherent. So the 'pixel' on the screen that is assigned to that micromirror will only be lit when the mirror is in the reflecting position. When it is away that little bit of display screen will not receive any light at all. The pixels all around it might be lit, but nothing will spill into it. A bulbs light does not become coherent after being reflected off of a micromirror. The easiest way to demonstrate this is to display a black image with one pixel lit. A bulb will be a little blob with milky edges, an LED will be a tighter blob, the laser should be a clean pixel, kind of like an LCD screen.

That mostly makes sense, however I question this statement:

"When it is away that little bit of display screen will not receive any light at all."

Ideally that would be true, but with current DLP technology it is not. Even for a black pixel, some light is still reflected onto the screen. My understanding is that the DLP micromirrors can not reflect 100% of the light away from the screen when tilted, so some light still gets through. I'm skeptical that this will be solved by just changing the light source, but maybe a coherent light source will help? I'm no expert here, just speculating.

davegow

03-13-08, 07:50 AM

.... Even for a black pixel, some light is still reflected onto the screen. My understanding is that the DLP micromirrors can not reflect 100% of the light away from the screen when tilted, so some light still gets through....

You are right, there is always a bit of stray light. Lasers can help in two ways that I know of, compared to the old hot lamps. First, by strobing to produce color instead of shining through a wheel they produce a more precise light delivery to the chip, and second their superior coherence keeps the photons on track. All this should be reflected in a good contrast ratio, an area where DLP has always performed well anyway.

This is one of the statistics that will be interesting to read once these sets get into the hands of professional reviewers.

mcnabney

03-13-08, 05:18 PM

That mostly makes sense, however I question this statement:

"When it is away that little bit of display screen will not receive any light at all."

Ideally that would be true, but with current DLP technology it is not. Even for a black pixel, some light is still reflected onto the screen. My understanding is that the DLP micromirrors can not reflect 100% of the light away from the screen when tilted, so some light still gets through. I'm skeptical that this will be solved by just changing the light source, but maybe a coherent light source will help? I'm no expert here, just speculating.

When the mirror is tilted away none of the light from that mirror would go to that pixel. However, until the LaserTV comes out all light sources have spread their light all over the place. So some of the non-directed light is left to reflect around the inside of the cabinet. Even though the inside is painted black, some of the light does find its way to the screen, reflecting from interior wall to interior wall. This can me seen in a very dark room when the RPTV is on but displaying a completely black image. There is still some illumination coming from the screen. This can be more graphically illustrated by the issue that Samsung had with their early 2007 LED RPTVs. The inside of the light engine was not painted black in the factory. This allowed all of that ambient reflected light that was not aimed directly at the screen to create a round halo in the center as it indirectly reflected of the non-absorbent material onto the screen. The correction could be made by simply replacing the material around the light engine with a black material. The advantage that the laser has is that there will be almost no light escaping into the cabinet to cause such problem.

davegow

03-14-08, 12:41 AM

I think the target use would be front projectors. High brightness. ...

Uh, yes and a full-strength laser beam aimed at each pixel point on the screen. Admittedly only for a very brief period of time but I sure wouldn't want to accidentally walk in front of the projector and look at it.

SIMJEDI

03-14-08, 12:53 AM

mcnabney

03-14-08, 11:13 AM

They could hopefully make them so small that they would only need mounted a few short feet from the wall on the ceiling.
With some kind of optical lens system to spread the beams out further or direct wide beam placement could make it safer.

Even then there will be a wild night of partying where someone will be dared to look directly into it...:eek:...:p

peace

The optics are going to spread the intensity of the light out a bit, but looking into it would be like looking into the spotlight. I really doubt it could possibly do any damage before you reflexively closed your eyes or turned away.

davegow

03-14-08, 11:39 AM

The optics are going to spread the intensity of the light out a bit, but looking into it would be like looking into the spotlight. I really doubt it could possibly do any damage before you reflexively closed your eyes or turned away.

This of course depends entirely on the dose but strong lasers can and do cause serious and sometimes permanent damage to eyes before it is possible to react. The Russians have made and distributed some lasers intended for combat and a few NATO pilots had their vision damaged during the Balkan operations. There have also been a couple of instances in the U.S. involving commercial pilots, apparently random vandalism.

The point is that a brief intensive laser pulse onto an eyeball is laser surgery which is best done under medical supervision.

Hipnotiq

03-14-08, 11:46 AM

The optics are going to spread the intensity of the light out a bit, but looking into it would be like looking into the spotlight. I really doubt it could possibly do any damage before you reflexively closed your eyes or turned away.
i dont know what level they will be using but if they are class 4 lasers then they definately will damage your eye.

davegow

03-14-08, 02:14 PM

I think for casual readers of this thread it is important to note that this conversation on eye damage has drifted away from the original topic of the upcoming laser RPTVs. There is no indication that the lasers in those sets can cause any harm.

mcnabney

03-14-08, 02:48 PM

This of course depends entirely on the dose but strong lasers can and do cause serious and sometimes permanent damage to eyes before it is possible to react. The Russians have made and distributed some lasers intended for combat and a few NATO pilots had their vision damaged during the Balkan operations. There have also been a couple of instances in the U.S. involving commercial pilots, apparently random vandalism.

The point is that a brief intensive laser pulse onto an eyeball is laser surgery which is best done under medical supervision.

i dont know what level they will be using but if they are class 4 lasers then they definately will damage your eye.

You are both thinking about those little handheld lasers (some are pretty powerful). Those beams of light are not run through a series of lenses and spread out. If you stood directly between the projector and a 120" screen that column of light will already be spread across 4000 square inches. If all that light was still focused on a square millimeter, like a laser pointer does, it could cause damage. But the optics that spread it across an entire screen dilute the destructive ability of the laser to nill.
To illustrate my point, go get a laser pointer and a pair of binoculars. Shine the laser into the binoculars where your eyes touch and the light will come out the wide end. The laser light will come out the wide end of the binoculars in a large circle that is nowhere near as bright as shining the pointer directly at the wall. If you want you can look directly into the 'now diluted' beam and your eyes won't have any problem at all.

davegow

03-14-08, 04:54 PM

You are both thinking about those little handheld lasers (some are pretty powerful). Those beams of light are not run through a series of lenses and spread out. If you stood directly between the projector and a 120" screen that column of light will already be spread across 4000 square inches. If all that light was still focused on a square millimeter, like a laser pointer does, it could cause damage. But the optics that spread it across an entire screen dilute the destructive ability of the laser to nill....

We seem to have a confusion here. I was commenting on your suggestion of a scanning laser "like a CRT" as you put it. That means a full-strength beam focussing on each pixel location in turn. A laser beam spread out as you say is not like a CRT, it's like a micro-display RP instead.

mcnabney

03-14-08, 11:01 PM

We seem to have a confusion here. I was commenting on your suggestion of a scanning laser "like a CRT" as you put it. That means a full-strength beam focussing on each pixel location in turn. A laser beam spread out as you say is not like a CRT, it's like a micro-display RP instead.

Even a scanning laser would not be a problem. With what, about 2 million pixels on a 1080p display. Even if your eye was in the line of fire of 100 pixels, the actual beam would only be striking your retina for 1/20000 of the time a constant beam would.

The engineering does not require that much laser-light power to give the equivalent of ohhh say, a 5000 lumen projector. That would be an amazingly bright projector, but the only way to get a damaging amount of photons in your eye is if you pressed it right up next the lens of the projector. The Mitsubishi people already addressed the safety issue by stating that the screen of the RPTV could be taken off and you could look directly into the mirror that is reflecting the light towards the viewer.

oink

03-16-08, 05:13 AM

IF shipping is to start this summer, it seems to me we should be getting some pre-order info soon....

REFLEX

03-16-08, 06:31 PM

Do we know a solid date for release? America? Canada? Japan? etc.

hdnola

03-16-08, 09:37 PM

mits should be showing off the tv and giving out some more info in may

baddgsx

03-17-08, 02:54 PM

Any info on screen sizes? 70 + inches , and are they gonna be using dolby HDR tech at all?

vtms

03-17-08, 05:23 PM

Any info on screen sizes? 70 + inches , and are they gonna be using dolby HDR tech at all?If they were using Dolby HDR, we would certainly have heard about it at CES 08. Maybe next generations will have it.

ivo welch

03-18-08, 04:45 PM

I thought Dolby HDR was a technology to use LED backlighting for LCD displays more intelligently. Is it even applicable to laser tv?

Soundboy

03-18-08, 08:57 PM

LASERVUE.
That's what Mits is calling it.

http://tess2.uspto.gov/bin/showfield?f=doc&state=8hbv1r.2.1

vtms

03-19-08, 08:07 AM

I thought Dolby HDR was a technology to use LED backlighting for LCD displays more intelligently. Is it even applicable to laser tv?Dolby HDR solutions essentially deal with dual modulation of light. In LED LCDs with local dimming, light is modulated first by LED backlight, then by LC panel. In projection (front and rear) they basically throw additional light-modulating component (like an LCD panel) so that you get a contrast that's a product of both DLP chip and LCD panel contrasts. If Mitsubishi combined all the benefits that come with laser light source with those of Dolby's HDR tech, that would be exciting to see.

hdnola

03-20-08, 12:24 PM

"What Would You do for a Laservue?

Engadget is reporting a rumor that LASERVUE may be the designated brand name for Mitsubishi’s forthcoming line of Laser TV. Their anonymous tipster is also reporting an announcement from Mitsubishi may come as early as April. This corroborates with our own recent intelligence suggesting new information from Mitsubishi will be “coming in the next month or so.” LAZRTV and LAZRTELEVISION have also been reported as potential brand names for the Laser TV line.

Since its debut at the 2008 CES Show, Mitsubishi has closely guarded the details surrounding the release of its laser television. Hopefully, release date, price, and availability details will be shared soon."

credit: http://laser-tv.org/2008/what-would-you-do-for-a-laservue/

so most likely april or may we will hear something on the laser tv

baddgsx

03-20-08, 05:15 PM

will the black levels be better than pioneer kuro plasmas? How about overall ANSI contrast levels. I truely hope they make a 73 inch or bigger, 80 , 90 inch. 4 K resolution would be nice also.

mcnabney

03-21-08, 01:38 PM

will the black levels be better than pioneer kuro plasmas? How about overall ANSI contrast levels. I truely hope they make a 73 inch or bigger, 80 , 90 inch. 4 K resolution would be nice also.

Well, you started out with legitimate requests, and then you got crazy...

baddgsx

03-21-08, 02:11 PM

hdnola

03-21-08, 03:10 PM

73 , 80 , 90inches , thats pretty legitimate............ Id pay 15,000. for a 90 inch lazerTV. I have a 70inch jvc hdfh96 right now. I had a panasonic ae900u a year before the jvc projecting on a 120inch fixed screen. JVC had a overall better demensional POP look. But the size of 120 gave a better submersive effect. I dont like front projection because of the lack ANSI contrast.

73 inch im sure they will, i hope so. ( if the price is right, as in under $4k) 80 inch i dunno but i think that is doable. 90 i wish, but don't see them doing it, atleast not yet. and 15k for a tv is too much really. for 15k it better A be over 120 inches-150inches, B be 4k res. but evn then i think thats asking a lot though for rptv.

but a 65, 73 and 80-84 inch would be nice. if they could max out at around $4k :)

but i have a feeling tha the 65 inch will be over $4 to about 5k max.

baddgsx

03-21-08, 04:44 PM

73 inch im sure they will, i hope so. ( if the price is right, as in under $4k) 80 inch i dunno but i think that is doable. 90 i wish, but don't see them doing it, atleast not yet. and 15k for a tv is too much really. for 15k it better A be over 120 inches-150inches, B be 4k res. but evn then i think thats asking a lot though for rptv.

but a 65, 73 and 80-84 inch would be nice. if they could max out at around $4k :)

but i have a feeling tha the 65 inch will be over $4 to about 5k max.

I think 4k for the 65inch is only fair is this Technology ( not ISF calibrated) really gives a better picture than the new pioneer kuro (ISF calibrated). I had my jvc isf calibrated here in CT by Peter Nelson and the difference was night and day. The picture became sooo punchy that planet earth on bluray is the only Movie i ever watched multiple times in my life.

If these laser TVs are as good as what people say they are not isf calibrated than im in. I hope Mitsu doesnt let us down.

i hope they use the 240hz that people are talking about also. my tv is 60 and my friends a3000 does the 120hz and i like it alot. But i like the 120hz on the new samsung and sony lcds better. Movie devcelopers are gonna have to stop with this 24p film crap , cause 120hz makes the computer generated landscapes look more fake.

any thoughts?

mcnabney

03-21-08, 05:16 PM

JoeSony

03-21-08, 05:55 PM

It won't sell at $4k for a 65". That is almost double the price of Samsung's LED DLPs. Remember, this is just DLP RPTV, with an improved light source. When you talk RPTV you talk bang/buck. Pricing a tabletop at wall-hanging prices is not going to gain any sales, even if it has a better picture. I think the highest a 65" could MSRP for would be $2999.99, with sales at around $2800 this year.

It's been stated that this will be wall mountable.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

JoeSony

03-22-08, 10:27 AM

Another article.

http://www.i4u.com/article15659.html

mcnabney

03-22-08, 04:32 PM

It's been stated that this will be wall mountable.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

They have also stated that the cabinet will be 10" deep. Technically it can be wall mounted because the technology adds little weight to the cabinet. However, something that sticks out 10" is going to look really odd. Remember, I could wall mount my 250lb CRT RPTV, but it would take a hell of a bracket. It isn't the fact that you can put a TV on the wall. That has been done for 30 years. People like the very thin design. That is also why the industry is especially fond of OLED's potential to practically blend with the wall due to thinness.

hdnola

03-22-08, 04:58 PM

They have also stated that the cabinet will be 10" deep. Technically it can be wall mounted because the technology adds little weight to the cabinet. However, something that sticks out 10" is going to look really odd. Remember, I could wall mount my 250lb CRT RPTV, but it would take a hell of a bracket. It isn't the fact that you can put a TV on the wall. That has been done for 30 years. People like the very thin design. That is also why the industry is especially fond of OLED's potential to practically blend with the wall due to thinness.

the sets might be thinner than 10 inches when they go into production.

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/mitsubishi_65_inch_laser_tv.php

"LCD TV's were the past, OLED TV's are the present and Laser TV's will be the future. Mitsubishi Japan has already developed an experimental 65 inch Laser TV which uses 3 color Laser for illumination. The experimental model is rather thick at 10 inches (app 25.4 cms), surely the end when goes commercial will be much thinner. To make use of Laser technology 'super wide angular optical engine' has been developed which miniaturizes the optical system. The TV can be hung up on the wall thanks to a thin screen and frame structure coupled with a small external power adapter. Mitsubishi claims the Laser TV offers a contrast ratio and colors spectrum which is double of current LCD and Plasma TV's. The TV is not only capable of delivering the ultimate picture quality but is also capable of delivering a true 3D experience. Detailed specifications and other details are kept under the wraps, however Mitsubishi is promising to release the new tech TV's in North America this year itself."

JoeSony

03-22-08, 05:09 PM

paul416

03-22-08, 07:11 PM

It won't sell at $4k for a 65". That is almost double the price of Samsung's LED DLPs. Remember, this is just DLP RPTV, with an improved light source. When you talk RPTV you talk bang/buck. Pricing a tabletop at wall-hanging prices is not going to gain any sales, even if it has a better picture. I think the highest a 65" could MSRP for would be $2999.99, with sales at around $2800 this year.

I agree. I've been holding off buying a large screen(60 or more) hoping the lasr will be out soon. But 4k is getting up there. If that is the case, I'll consider the Sammy LED.

mcnabney

03-22-08, 09:34 PM

the sets might be thinner than 10 inches when they go into production.

http://www.newlaunches.com/archives/mitsubishi_65_inch_laser_tv.php

"LCD TV's were the past, OLED TV's are the present and Laser TV's will be the future. Mitsubishi Japan has already developed an experimental 65 inch Laser TV which uses 3 color Laser for illumination. The experimental model is rather thick at 10 inches (app 25.4 cms), surely the end when goes commercial will be much thinner. To make use of Laser technology 'super wide angular optical engine' has been developed which miniaturizes the optical system. The TV can be hung up on the wall thanks to a thin screen and frame structure coupled with a small external power adapter. Mitsubishi claims the Laser TV offers a contrast ratio and colors spectrum which is double of current LCD and Plasma TV's. The TV is not only capable of delivering the ultimate picture quality but is also capable of delivering a true 3D experience. Detailed specifications and other details are kept under the wraps, however Mitsubishi is promising to release the new tech TV's in North America this year itself."

It is still just a DLP RPTV and has all of the weaknesses of that technology. Samsung already tried getting a 'thin' cabinet, the XX76s, and the new design with the mirror on the top - which was needed to make the box slender - made for lots of problems. The cabinet became flexible so that the image would vibrate when a toddler ran by. It also created the sagging issue which has been thoroughly documented at being the worst thing for geometry in years. In response, all of Samsung's 2008 DLPs, both lamp and LED, will have the 15" deep cabinet to prevent a 10% RMA due to the sagging defect. There really is not difference between LED and laser. They both have 3 little light sources that are pulsed and collimated together by using various optics to project and image.

LowellG

03-23-08, 01:35 PM

JoeSony

03-23-08, 02:00 PM

Originally posted by JoeSony:

Just because it can be wall mounted doesn't mean it will look good. Take a look at the last wall mountable DLP TV that was around 7" thick.

http://www.india-emporium.com/servlet/the-165/InFocus-ScreenPlay-61md10-61/Detail

It's still a RPTV and won't hold near the cool factor of a flat panel. If they try and price it with flat panels it will have limited success.

Agreed wall mounting isn't going to be a factor in pricing. It's probably going to depend a lot on the quality of the picture combined with the larger screen sizes not available in the LCDs.

baddgsx

03-24-08, 06:50 AM

i hope that they dont make it to thin to where we have geometry issues. Im buying this TV for overall performance. Not the style factor of it being hung on a wall. I wonder how many bits? 10bit , 12bit , 14bit processing these tvs are going to have. Also , when do u guys think we will start seeing the DEEP color that hdmi 1.3 is pushing on us with no source disc material. Does that even matter anymore , or was that a marketing scam? hmmmmmmm

Orta

03-24-08, 04:43 PM

If they're going after the upper echelons, they'll be competing with what are said to be far cheaper, much improved Kuro's (50" 1080p targeting $3500 MSRP, 80% deeper blacks) and 128+ zone RGB LED LCD's (Sony XBR6/7 and Samsung 950 probably leading the pack). Mitsubishi's LAZR's will have to have a Godly picture or be (comparatively) dirt cheap to stand a chance IMO. 10 extra inches of screen-estate is NOT going to tip the scales.

davegow

03-24-08, 05:02 PM

...10 extra inches of screen-estate is NOT going to tip the scales.

Speak for yourself. It matters to me bigtime and I don't think I'm alone.

Orta

03-24-08, 05:09 PM

Speak for yourself. It matters to me bigtime and I don't think I'm alone.

I was just speaking in general terms. If most people felt the same as you, flat panels would be the sector on its way out while RPJ's were booming.

georule

03-24-08, 10:34 PM

He didn't say he was in the majority. He said he didn't think he was alone.

Given that DLP's pretty much survive on the "Big screen bang for the buck" factor, I have to agree with him.

We've got a 2004 62" and are pining for a 73" some day. . .

Daniel Murray

03-24-08, 10:41 PM

davegow

03-24-08, 11:05 PM

I was just speaking in general terms. If most people felt the same as you, flat panels would be the sector on its way out while RPJ's were booming.

I think I replied too hastily, so let me rephrase. It is evident from sales statistics that the market for very large HDTVs (say 60+) is relatively small. But that doesn't mean it's nil. For some of us size DOES matter (well in TVs anyway) and we are not willing to just throw that away.

It's not a question of "tipping any scales", it's a matter of niche markets. Right now flat-panels are just not competitive in very large sizes. That could of course change in the future, but until it does there's plenty of room for a variety of HDTV technologies. The world is a big market, and getting bigger all the time, what with emerging middle class consumers all around the globe.

Orta

03-25-08, 02:28 AM

I was just referencing the fact that Mitsubishi is openly banking on this technology to turn the entire tide of the RPJ market. My statements were arguments for why I think that probably won't happen, and why they probably won't be successful (units sales wise) billing this as a Premium display at premium price point.

davegow

03-25-08, 07:49 AM

...Mitsubishi is openly banking on this technology to turn the entire tide of the RPJ market. ...

I think you're putting too much faith in the hype typed up their advertising agency (at least whichever staff does their English language copy). I'm sure the actual executives at Mitsubishi know the market better than that.

mcnabney

03-25-08, 11:39 AM

I think you're putting too much faith in the hype typed up their advertising agency (at least whichever staff does their English language copy). I'm sure the actual executives at Mitsubishi know the market better than that.

It is very difficult to speak about future products without damaging existing sales. If they said "our LaserTVs will be Uber cheap!!!" than their current sales will tank in anticipation. Since it appears it will be a good bit of time before they come out, that would just be stupid. Previous statements were made about them being cheaper than current RPTV. Perhaps the whole, "competitive with other flat panel displays" line was just to balance that out. Ultimately, they will price them as high as they can.

JoeSony

03-27-08, 07:29 PM

Another article on Mitsubishi's Laser TV and rear projection TV future.

http://www.statesman.com/business/content/business/stories/technology/03/24/0324lasertv.html

TMSKILZ

03-31-08, 07:57 PM

Hey joe, thanks for that article link.

I hope we get new details about the Lazervue HDTV from Mitsubishi soon. I will be moving into a new home & am awiting details on this Lazer TV tech to decide which HDTV to get for my new place.

baddgsx

04-01-08, 06:00 PM

i want one sooo bad , i hope they are comparable or even better to 8g kuros and the new 9g kuro plasmas. i neeeeed 70 inch or bigger...... without going front projection.

CHASLX200

04-01-08, 07:30 PM

I would also like a laser Mits. Guess when my 52628 ever kicks the buckett i will be shopping for a new Mits.

videobruce

04-02-08, 08:41 AM

Other than 65", what are the other sizes that are suppose to be offered?

baddgsx

04-02-08, 05:23 PM

i bet they will have a 73 incher in their line. If Mitsu is smart , which they are, they are gonna want to make sizes that flat panels cant touch PRICE WISE. , example a 70 inch plasma or lcd would cost you a CAR. but a laser RPTV will be around 6000.00

hdnola

04-02-08, 06:17 PM

the lamp based models hit shelves in may, so i guess this month or next mits will show off the laser tv.

prob may though. laser will be the diamond series only.
MITSUBISHI DLP WD60735
6-color processor
X.v. color
Deep color
Color 4d noise reduction
3x HDMI inputs
3D HDTV ready
$1599 (dunno if thats retail or not though)

MITSUBISHI DLP WD65736

6-color processor
X.v. color
Deep color
Color 4d noise reduction
4x HDMI inputs
Netcommand ir input/output
Deepfield imager
3D HDTV ready
$2099 (same dunno if thats retail price or just this online store)

http://www.abcwarehouse.com/product_catalog/pc_prodsbyprice.asp~assort_id~1299

looks like mits will be dropping the 57 inch line of tv. and i guess laser will be 65 and 73 inch only. which would prob be n the 4-5k price range

baddgsx

04-02-08, 08:26 PM

good find hdnola , i agree with u on the lasers being a diamond line and big boys only , 65 inch , 70 + . uggggggggggggghhhhhh i cant wait any longer.

im gonna just give my sister my 70 inch jvc hd70fh96 1080p set. I just got a brand new bulb for it and cleaned the inside chassis, so it performs like new. I wont get squat for it on ebay since new versions of RPTVs are sooo cheap now, its rediculous. RPTVs lose their values worse than cars, lol. They are like the hyundai' and kia. Pioneer is like the mercedes of TVs ,lol . Hopefully mitsu lazr will have better resell values.

Cant wait to dump my dvdo vp50 too. that was a waist of money. I didnt see much improvement on bluray playback from my ps3. I thought it would smooth it up better. it wasnt any wow effect. i hope laser has 240hz motion. I like 120hz on the sony and samsung lcds. Its sooo smooth.
I wouldnt be suprised if the VP market dies out soon. Tvs are coming out with genum and realta based processing. who needs an external vp then.

what do u guys think?

xtremxterra

04-02-08, 10:34 PM

hdnola great find. I googled that model and came upon this site.

http://hhgregg.partsearch.com/ModelSelect.aspx?MfgName=Mitsubishi&BrandName=Mitsubishi&PartCategoryName=Other+Remotes&page=6

and this on Amazon
http://www.amazon.com/Mitsubishi-WD-65734-65-inch-1080p-HDTV/dp/B000RIWEN6

There is a newer model of this item:
Mitsubishi WD-65736 65-inch 1080p DLP HDTV
$2,199.99

hdnola

04-02-08, 10:38 PM

ya i seen that as well a little while ago :), but hope to see some info on the laser ones soon.

update to the 73734
Mitsubishi WD-73736 73-inch 1080p DLP HDTV Mitsubishi WD-73736 73-inch 1080p DLP HDTV
$3,299.99

update to the 73733
Mitsubishi WD-73735 73-inch 1080p DLP HDTV
$2,999.99

update to the 65734
Mitsubishi WD-65736 65-inch 1080p DLP HDTV
$2,199.99

update to the 65733 (the site says this one is in stock, dunno if its true or a mistake by amazon)
Mitsubishi WD-65735 65-inch 1080p DLP HDTV
$1,744.01

those are both on amazon when u look at the older model, they have a link to the new model, but it doesnt send you to them.

crackmonkey

04-03-08, 05:32 PM

Brimstone-1

04-03-08, 07:11 PM

I've heard a lot of discussion about size and contrast with some comparisons to the Kuro.

I haven't seen any discussions about viewing angles. Has anyone heard anything about this? The limited viewing angles of RP's has always been a pretty big turn off for me. Does anyone know if any reports are available about this? Is it possible that it could have the same viewing angle as a plasma?

The viewing angles should be greatly improved. The laser light source is very bright, so they can use a lower gain screen. Although I don't think Mistsubishi has offically commented on this.

baddgsx

04-04-08, 07:00 AM

The viewing angles should be greatly improved. The laser light source is very bright, so they can use a lower gain screen. Although I don't think Mistsubishi has offically commented on this.

Good point , i dont care much for viewing angles , but seeing screen grain on a bright white picture is soooooooo anoying. I hope they fix that aswell. Speaking of the laser screens, has anybody noticed the color of the screen on all the mitsubishi laser TVs debuted on CES? They look grayish in color ,not black. But im thinking thats do to surrounding area being dark and the camera guy using the flash to take picture.

videobruce

04-04-08, 11:53 AM

hdnola; Those are all current (last years) models.

xtremxterra

04-04-08, 12:15 PM

Video no they are not check out the model numbers again and click the links above those post if you dont believe. Show me where those are last year models?

videobruce

04-04-08, 12:42 PM

Not the 735 & 736, but the 733 & 734 of your last post.

xtremxterra

04-04-08, 01:48 PM

Thats why he put update TO the 733 & 734 IS the 735 & 736

hdnola

04-04-08, 02:16 PM

Thats why he put update TO the 733 & 734 IS the 735 & 736

:)

Brimstone-1

04-04-08, 02:51 PM

Good point , i dont care much for viewing angles , but seeing screen grain on a bright white picture is soooooooo anoying. I hope they fix that aswell. Speaking of the laser screens, has anybody noticed the color of the screen on all the mitsubishi laser TVs debuted on CES? They look grayish in color ,not black. But im thinking thats do to surrounding area being dark and the camera guy using the flash to take picture.

I'm not sure, but if I recall correctly, laser light sources are great at producing color, but are challenged a little when it comes to a pure white. So the grey screen helps with this.

chadmak09

04-04-08, 11:30 PM

mcallister

04-05-08, 06:56 AM

I thought that Pioneer was pulling out of the plasma market?

baddgsx

04-05-08, 09:20 AM

I just don't see the Laser TV's being as popular as LCD/plasma.
Especially with Pioneer's 10th generation plasma's being able to go total black 0 ire.
I don't see the laser TV's outdoing Pioneers extreme contrast concept.
And with Pioneer outsourcing thier glass to Panasonic, the Kuro's will become less expensive hopefully.

60 inch and below , the pioneer kuros and ultra kuro concepts (if they come out) will be the best!!!! Butttttttt , 65 and up these laser TVs will be our bang for the buck TVs. quality performance for half the price.

It all comes down to what size do you want and how much u want to spend for quality.

mike_pro

04-05-08, 10:00 AM

FWIW, I talked to a guy at Best Buy yesterday, that actually seemed to know a thing or two! :eek:

I was talking to him about the '08 Samsung LED DLP which they don't have yet. He brought up the Mitsu Laser DLP's on his own accord, and said he couldn't wait to see them. He said he last talked to their Mitsu rep about a month ago, and he told him that the Laser DLP's where going to be available in the diamond series only (i.e. only Magnolia would carry them, not a regular Best Buy), and the sizes should be the same as what they have now, (65" and 73" I believe?). He also said they probably wouldn't be available until around fall, that they hope to have them out for the start of football season.

Well, that would certainly suck if they are that far away. I would hope that Mistu would start releasing details a lot sooner than that. Maybe they don't want to jeopardize current model sales, or give their competitors a lot of extra time to battle them with marketing, so they are being tight lipped until they are ready to start shipping sets. Sigh...

Ripnickus

04-05-08, 10:56 AM

Brimstone-1

04-05-08, 01:34 PM

I just don't see the Laser TV's being as popular as LCD/plasma.
Especially with Pioneer's 10th generation plasma's being able to go total black 0 ire.
I don't see the laser TV's outdoing Pioneers extreme contrast concept.
And with Pioneer outsourcing thier glass to Panasonic, the Kuro's will become less expensive hopefully.

The color saturation of Laser light is a big advantage.

The more color saturated an image is, the brighter it appears to the human eye. This is known as the helmholtz-kohlrausch effect.

lcaillo

04-05-08, 01:48 PM

I would be more happy with proper saturation rather than chasing more saturation. More saturation is only an advantage if you have a system that supports it with extended gamut in production.

nesto719

04-06-08, 06:11 PM

i hope theses tv's are are the real deal or i will just get the led tv from sammy.

mcallister

04-06-08, 07:04 PM

i hope theses tv's are are the real deal or i will just get the led tv from sammy.

as do I but Christ give us some info already. Seriously what is Mits waiting on? For everyone to buy a different set?

mcnabney

04-06-08, 07:10 PM

as do I but Christ give us some info already. Seriously what is Mits waiting on? For everyone to buy a different set?

Yes. You are supposed to buy one of their current DLPs now. A company never wants the promise of new/better version to diminish current sales. There is always something better on the horizon, but the best time to buy is always today.

hdnola

04-06-08, 10:16 PM

Yes. You are supposed to buy one of their current DLPs now. A company never wants the promise of new/better version to diminish current sales. There is always something better on the horizon, but the best time to buy is always today.

i wanna know myself. although its iffy if I get one with year or wait til next years model. only because im trying to buy a car (dont have one right now) and doing alot of film work as of late.

oink

04-06-08, 11:41 PM

Fall release?:(

Too long for me....will check out something else at 73 inches.

Another thing to think about here is this will be a 1st gen product, which is something to keep in mind...

videobruce

04-07-08, 08:15 AM

Another thing to think about here is this will be a 1st gen product, which is something to keep in mind...Fall of 2009..............

Really bad decesion to drop the 57" for a 60". They already have a 65". The sizes are too close together.
Deal breaker for me as a 57" is pushing it for where it would go.

zoestanley

04-07-08, 11:02 AM

Fall of 2009..............

Really bad decesion to drop the 57" for a 60". They already have a 65". The sizes are too close together.
Deal breaker for me as a 57" is pushing it for where it would go.

whoa, 2009? where did that come from. i thought everything pointed to fall of '08.

hdnola

04-07-08, 11:48 AM

http://www.prnewswire.com/cgi-bin/stories.pl?ACCT=109&STORY=/www/story/04-07-2008/0004787489&EDATE=

Mitsubishi also has named its recently announced Laser TV, which will
be branded as LaserVue(TM) and will be available to consumers in the 3rd
Quarter of 2008.

"Because Mitsubishi has focused on large-format televisions for more
than two decades, we have a unique understanding of our customers wants,
needs and expectations from their HDTVs," said Frank DeMartin, vice
president, marketing, at Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America. "Our new
2008 HDTVs are a direct result of listening to our customers, and we have
delivered multi-dimensional products that will take their viewing
experience to a new level."

The Big Picture -- New 1080p DLP HDTVs

Mitsubishi continues to lead the competition with the largest DLP HDTV
available at 73". The new 2008 product line will include three new 73"
1080p DLP HDTV models along with 60" and 65" sizes -- all featuring thinner
frames, increased brightness and 3D-ready capability. These new models also
will leverage Mitsubishi's exclusive 6-Color Processor(TM) for
extraordinarily vivid color reproduction.

"Mitsubishi's 1080p DLP HDTVs create a truly immersive 3D experience
with picture quality that far exceeds that of previous 3D displays," said
David Naranjo, director of product development at Mitsubishi Digital
Electronics America. "3D content is already available today via PC media
systems and our 3D-ready televisions will allow customers to take advantage
of 3D formatted movie, sports, and video game content when available in the
future."

Mitsubishi's Diamond DLP HDTV line offers the ultimate large screen
performance and design. Exclusive Diamond features include Smooth120Hz(TM)
to optimize fast action scenes and Dark Detailer(TM) for higher contrast
imagery along with a high gloss design and Blue Light Accent.

The new DLP models will be available beginning in April. Manufacturer's
Suggested Value Pricing is as follows:

1080p DLP HDTVs
WD-60735 - $1,799 WD-65736 - $2,499 Diamond WD-73835 - $4,699
WD-65735 - $2,199 WD-73736 - $3,599
WD-73735 - $3,199 Diamond WD-65835 - $3,399

on laser

At the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2008, Mitsubishi launched a
new category of large-format televisions with ground-breaking laser
technology, and today the company announced the brand name for its new
Laser TV -- LaserVue. As the first-ever laser-powered television, LaserVue
will deliver a range of color never before seen in home entertainment.
Precise and focused, the purity of laser light surpasses current
high-definition technologies. Today's HDTVs display less than 40 percent of
the color spectrum that the eye can see. Now, for the first time ever,
laser produces twice the color. Laser beams provide the widest range of
rich, complex colors, along with the most clarity and depth of field.

Mitsubishi LaserVue TVs not only provide the ultimate picture quality,
they are also capable of delivering a true 3D viewing experience. In
addition, they are environmentally friendly, consuming approximately
one-half the power of today's LCD TVs, and approximately one-third the
power consumption of plasma TVs.

"Mitsubishi has created a new category in television with laser
technology and now we are creating an exciting new brand, LaserVue, which
we believe consumers will come to equate with the industry's best
performing televisions," continued DeMartin.

Mitsubishi will ship LaserVue televisions to authorized retailers in
the 3rd Quarter of 2008.

*****************

so it looks like laser will be at min over 5-6k for a 65 inch. the diamond sets are also lamp based not laser.

hdnola

04-07-08, 12:12 PM

Mitsubishi

Mitsubishi revealed to a small gathering of industry press its 2008 model line which includes new LCD model series, new DLP rear projectors and the first production Laser TV.

Laser HDTV

LaserVue is the official name of Mitsubishi’s Laser TV. The demonstration revealed an image that was significantly improved compared to the prototype I viewed at the 2008 CES. It is now quite bright and the colors (especially the reds) are the most vivid of any display device I have seen . This was quite evident in a side-by-side demonstration against a 65″ Sharp LCD and a 60″ Pioneer Kuro plasma. Mitsubishi is keeping most of the specifics, such a specs, number of models, pricing and feature list under wraps till the end of June, however they let a few details slip out.

The LaserVue HDTVs will ship in the 3rd qtr. of this year. They consume only one half the power of LCD flat panel (for the same screen size), and the sets will be capable of delivering a 3D image (movies may arrive later this year)

http://hdguru.com/the-madness-continues-part-ii-2008-mitsubishi-panasonic/230/

baddgsx

04-07-08, 03:59 PM

I think Laser is going to be expensive!!!! But it WILL BE WORTH IT AND WORTH THE WAIT!!! i hope

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Introduces New Line of HDTVs Creating a New Dimension in Television

Mitsubishi LaserVue (PRNewsFoto/Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc.)

IRVINE, CA UNITED STATES

Highlights Include New DLP(R) and LCD HDTV Enhancements and LaserVue(TM)
Laser TV

IRVINE, Calif., April 7, 2008 /PRNewswire/ -- Mitsubishi Digital
Electronics America, Inc. today announced its new multi-dimensional HDTVs
for 2008, which will take sight and sound to new heights for consumers
demanding only the best in quality and performance from their HDTVs. New
2008 product highlights include thinner frame and brighter DLP(R) models
and Ultra Thin Frame(TM) LCD HDTVs with improved sound capabilities.

(Photo: http://www.newscom.com/cgi-bin/prnh/20080407/AQM505)

Mitsubishi also has named its recently announced Laser TV, which will
be branded as LaserVue(TM) and will be available to consumers in the 3rd
Quarter of 2008.

"Because Mitsubishi has focused on large-format televisions for more
than two decades, we have a unique understanding of our customers wants,
needs and expectations from their HDTVs," said Frank DeMartin, vice
president, marketing, at Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America. "Our new
2008 HDTVs are a direct result of listening to our customers, and we have
delivered multi-dimensional products that will take their viewing
experience to a new level."

The Big Picture -- New 1080p DLP HDTVs

Mitsubishi continues to lead the competition with the largest DLP HDTV
available at 73". The new 2008 product line will include three new 73"
1080p DLP HDTV models along with 60" and 65" sizes -- all featuring thinner
frames, increased brightness and 3D-ready capability. These new models also
will leverage Mitsubishi's exclusive 6-Color Processor(TM) for
extraordinarily vivid color reproduction.

"Mitsubishi's 1080p DLP HDTVs create a truly immersive 3D experience
with picture quality that far exceeds that of previous 3D displays," said
David Naranjo, director of product development at Mitsubishi Digital
Electronics America. "3D content is already available today via PC media
systems and our 3D-ready televisions will allow customers to take advantage
of 3D formatted movie, sports, and video game content when available in the
future."

Mitsubishi's Diamond DLP HDTV line offers the ultimate large screen
performance and design. Exclusive Diamond features include Smooth120Hz(TM)
to optimize fast action scenes and Dark Detailer(TM) for higher contrast
imagery along with a high gloss design and Blue Light Accent.

The new DLP models will be available beginning in April. Manufacturer's
Suggested Value Pricing is as follows:

1080p DLP HDTVs
WD-60735 - $1,799 WD-65736 - $2,499 Diamond WD-73835 - $4,699
WD-65735 - $2,199 WD-73736 - $3,599
WD-73735 - $3,199 Diamond WD-65835 - $3,399

More Picture and Sound in Less Space -- New LCD HDTVs

Mitsubishi is introducing seven Ultra Thin Frame 1080p LCD HDTV models
ranging from 40" to 52" putting Mitsubishi on the map as the only brand to
offer consumers a complete line of Ultra Thin Frame LCD HDTVs. Mitsubishi
reduced frame widths by more than 10 percent on all LCD models to under one
inch. In addition to thinner frames, other new features include low-profile
speakers offering improved sound, Smooth 120Hz(TM) Film Motion and
GalleryPlayer(R) technology.

Mitsubishi's entire line of LCD HDTVs feature Smooth 120Hz Film Motion,
taking 120Hz to the next level with dejudder for film originated content.
In the conversion of film-to-video for display, 24Hz artifacts can be seen
in slow panning scenes and Smooth 120Hz Film Motion eliminates this
artifact for smooth, crisp, fast and slow action content. The new LCD
additions also will continue to leverage 10bit Panels, 6-Color Processor,
x.v.Color(TM) and Deep Color.

Consumers can turn a Mitsubishi LCD HDTV into a work of art with
GalleryPlayer software, which enables display of stunning high-definition
art and photography. Users can select images from GalleryPlayer's
comprehensive library of licensed digital photography and reproductions
from National Geographic, The Metropolitan Museum of Art and others.
Customers may download the GalleryPlayer software at
http://www.galleryplayer.com and load on to a USB drive for installation in
all Mitsubishi LCD HDTVs.

Mitsubishi's Diamond LCD HDTV line offers the ultimate flat-panel
performance and design. Exclusive Diamond features include Variable
Smooth120Hz Film Motion to optimize movie reproduction, a high performance,
low profile speaker design for high-quality sound, DeepField(TM) Imager for
higher contrast imagery and a high gloss design with Blue Light Accent.

Mitsubishi's LCD HDTV models will be available beginning May 2008.
Manufacturer's Suggested Value Pricing is as follows:

1080p Ultra Thin Frame LCD HDTVs
LT-40148 - $2,499 LT-52148 - $3,599 Diamond LT-52246 - $4,499
LT-46148 - $2,999 LT-52149 - $4,099
LT-46149 - $3,499 Diamond LT-46246 - $3,799

True Dimension Experience(TM): LaserVue

At the Consumer Electronics Show in January 2008, Mitsubishi launched a
new category of large-format televisions with ground-breaking laser
technology, and today the company announced the brand name for its new
Laser TV -- LaserVue. As the first-ever laser-powered television, LaserVue
will deliver a range of color never before seen in home entertainment.
Precise and focused, the purity of laser light surpasses current
high-definition technologies. Today's HDTVs display less than 40 percent of
the color spectrum that the eye can see. Now, for the first time ever,
laser produces twice the color. Laser beams provide the widest range of
rich, complex colors, along with the most clarity and depth of field.

Mitsubishi LaserVue TVs not only provide the ultimate picture quality,
they are also capable of delivering a true 3D viewing experience. In
addition, they are environmentally friendly, consuming approximately
one-half the power of today's LCD TVs, and approximately one-third the
power consumption of plasma TVs.

"Mitsubishi has created a new category in television with laser
technology and now we are creating an exciting new brand, LaserVue, which
we believe consumers will come to equate with the industry's best
performing televisions," continued DeMartin.

Mitsubishi will ship LaserVue televisions to authorized retailers in
the 3rd Quarter of 2008.

About Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc.

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc., the Official HDTV of The
PGA TOUR, manufactures and markets a comprehensive line of premium quality
1080p DLP HDTVs and 1080p LCD Flat Panel HDTVs. Recognized as the world
leader and innovator of large display high-definition televisions,
Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America builds products that lead the
industry in quality, performance and ease-of-use. For additional
information about MDEA and LaserVue, visit http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com

LaserVue, True Dimension Experience, 6-Color Processor, Ultra Thin
Frame, Smooth 120Hz Film Motion, Smooth 120Hz and DeepField Imager are
trademarks of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. DLP is a
trademark of Texas Instruments. x.v.Color is a trademark of Sony
Corporation. GalleryPlayer is a registered trademark.

SOURCE Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc.

hdnola

04-07-08, 04:07 PM

baddgsx

i already posted that same article above yours, hours ago. :)

baddgsx

04-07-08, 04:36 PM

baddgsx

i already posted that same article above yours, hours ago. :)

Damnit!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I wanted to be the first!!!!

You gonna get a laservue HDnola? what size do you want if you do?

vtms

04-07-08, 05:03 PM

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/mitsubishis-new-laservue-tvs-first-impressions/
Mitsubishi’s New LaserVue TVs: First Impressions By Eric Taub

Mitsubishi used last weekend’s dealer line show in Huntington Beach, Calif., to showcase its new LaserVue line of laser-based rear-projection TVs. (Line shows give consumer electronics companies the chance to woo their retailers with their newest models, as well as a good amount of free food and alcohol.)

To show the technology’s superiority, Mitsubishi created a side-by-side view-off with comparably sized high-end L.C.D. and plasma sets sourced from competitors.

Of course, Mitsubishi would not have set up the comparison if it didn’t think the LaserVue would produce a better picture. And if production models are like what was on display today, consumers should react strongly to the new technology.

One immediate impact: with a laser light engine, colors don’t look so much as if they’re painted on the screen as if they’re shooting out from it. Colors are alive and vibrant in a way that mimics the brightness of neon light, or a large advertising transparency being illuminated from behind in a light box. The company also says that their laser TVs produce twice as many colors as any traditional TV technology. Indeed, many colors on the plasma and especially on the L.C.D. sets were washed out and dull, while their laser counterparts were vibrant, without looking overblown. The picture looks much like a giant version of the images produced by Sony’s superb but tiny OLED HDTV screens.

While Mitsubishi would not talk sizing, pricing, or specs for its LaserVue sets, a casual observation of one of its models indicated that the production version is likely to be about two-thirds as deep as a same-sized DLP rear projection set. That’s still not as thin as an L.C.D. or the really thin OLED technology, but it moves toward diminishing the single biggest objection to rear-projection TV.

L.C.D. does not perform well in darkened rooms, and that phenomenon was readily apparent in the comparison tests. When the laser and plasma sets went to black, L.C.D. went to a muddy gray. The laser set had more detail in the blacks than the plasma set; and increased contrast increases perceived picture sharpness.

The viewing environment was carefully calibrated to help the laser set shine. How it will perform in a consumer setting is unknown.

The relatively young HDTV landscape has its share of once promising, but failed technologies, including S.E.D. and LCoS. Is there a possibility that in a few years laser TV will join that group?

Not a chance, says Frank DeMartin, the company’s marketing vice president. “There’s no possibility that laser won’t make it,” he said. “The stars have aligned; it fits our core competency.”

baddgsx

04-07-08, 05:42 PM

I cannot wait for a 73 inch version!!!!!! only 3 inches bigger than my hdila , but thats better than being smaller in size. UGGGGGGGGHHHH , cant wait!!

Hanzo

04-07-08, 05:43 PM

hdnola

04-07-08, 06:51 PM

Why are these manufacturers insisting on releasing these tv's in the 5k price range when the USA is going into a recession? That's a bad sales strategy if you ask me.

I am hoping these LaserVue tv's come out in the 2-3K range as they would be a great alternative to dropping 5-6k for a Pioneer Kuro. I really am interested in the best quality picture for least amt of $$ possible. I was really interested in the Sony SXRD's but now that they have stopped production of those I am hoping these LaserVue tv's may be what I'm looking for....

true. but it prob has to do with the cost to make them, because they will prob be in smaller quantities . and the lamp dlp are the low end dlp sets, with laser being the high end dlp sets.

im planning on buying one if the price is right, but if not. i can wait another year. because im trying to buy a car, and might be busy over summer with film projects, and hope fall as well. so with little time it might not be wise to invest in a tv so soon.

i can still go sd for a little longer, although i would rather not.

lcaillo

04-07-08, 06:52 PM

April fools day has passed.

moonhawk

04-07-08, 07:32 PM

well, I'll just wait and see....

bc2000y

04-07-08, 07:56 PM

http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/508mitsline/

TMSKILZ

04-08-08, 03:03 AM

Kool, now we need more fine details on performance from hands on people & prices. Lazer TV has potential.

Hipnotiq

04-08-08, 03:36 PM

Why are these manufacturers insisting on releasing these tv's in the 5k price range when the USA is going into a recession? That's a bad sales strategy if you ask me.

I am hoping these LaserVue tv's come out in the 2-3K range as they would be a great alternative to dropping 5-6k for a Pioneer Kuro. I really am interested in the best quality picture for least amt of $$ possible. I was really interested in the Sony SXRD's but now that they have stopped production of those I am hoping these LaserVue tv's may be what I'm looking for....
According to every article on this thread the LaserVue destroyed the Kuro in side by side test.
If its "competivley priced" as Mits suggested and larger in size...it should be a no-brainer to buy the laser over the Kuro.

sjchmura

04-08-08, 04:37 PM

The USA may be in a recession right now - maybe not. Is the worst over? Who knows...
Usually the media in the US exagerates the good and the bad. The truth is probably somewhere in the middle.

For some reason, however, people who can afford and appreciate Kuro vs. LaserVue, in this current economy, have probably not started feeling the effects.

biloxi

04-08-08, 05:30 PM

Daniel Murray

04-08-08, 05:52 PM

If this TV cost as much as a Plasma or LCD I will NOT buy one. I have spent $4000.00 on a Mitsubishi TV and it has not been holding up. I do not think I could ever spend that much for an other Mitsubishi TV.

mcnabney

04-08-08, 06:04 PM

The other thing about the 5k pricing of the laser is that the laser set is apparently cheaper to produce!! The manufacturer of the laser unit for Mits repeatedly stated that its unit was significantly less expensive to produce than current rear projection.

Which begs the question, what will they do with that advantage?

Will they charge the same price per size category as LCD and plasma and reap serious per unit profits, but gain little market share based upon the depreciated competitive value of the Mitsubishi name?

or

Drastically undercut the flat panels, selling 65" at $2500-3000. That would knock Samsung off of its perch as king of RPTV and might have a chance of claiming some market share back from the flat panel crowd. The name, LaserTV or LaserVue or LaserWhatever, does have a good marketing edge to it...

It is a tough call and perhaps will be based more upon their ability to produce in volume than in the product quality. If they can only produce at the same quantity level as their previous RPTV efforts they will choose the first option. With Sony out of RPTV and Samsung doing its best to destroy its own RPTV lines the more profitable business solution is to price them fairly high. If the 'reviews' are correct in showing valid superiority to Kuro and being released at large sizes - we should expect a $4-5k price tag. Bummer.

ckong

04-08-08, 10:25 PM

1st impression from a recent demo seems positive:

http://bits.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/04/07/mitsubishis-new-laservue-tvs-first-impressions/

~Mg~

04-09-08, 03:50 AM

Will there be a 40 inch model too, or only 65 inch+ versions?

JoeSony

04-09-08, 06:10 AM

Will there be a 40 inch model too, or only 65 inch+ versions?

Doesn't appear so.

davegow

04-09-08, 07:54 AM

Will there be a 40 inch model too, or only 65 inch+ versions?

If RPTV has a future, it will be in larger sizes only, 60 inches + probably. LCD flat-panel has the under 50 market locked up and I can't see that changing until something like an affordable OLED or other new tech comes along.

xb1032

04-09-08, 01:13 PM

Sounds exciting but questions still remain on how much these TVs will cost. Also, if they are that good and only in the diamond line at select stores then they probably won't be discounted much of MSRP like Samsung's LED LCDs (which I still haven't seen because there are no Magnolia stores in my area).

Hipnotiq

04-09-08, 03:36 PM

The other thing about the 5k pricing of the laser is that the laser set is apparently cheaper to produce!! The manufacturer of the laser unit for Mits repeatedly stated that its unit was significantly less expensive to produce than current rear projection.
complete conjecture and misinformation.
Some abstract companies were reporting to be developing laser tv. However Mits already stated that those companies have nothing to do with Mits, althought they declined to state who actually was.

I do believe one of those companies had connections with Samsung...but that is still just rumor at this point.

mcallister

04-09-08, 05:39 PM

considering the MSRP for the new 73835 will be $4699 wouldn't it seem that a 73" Laservue would be $6K to $6999?

I doubt a 73" laser will be cheaper even it was cheaper to produce.

mike_pro

04-09-08, 08:26 PM

considering the MSRP for the new 73835 will be $4699 wouldn't it seem that a 73" Laservue would be $6K to $6999?

I doubt a 73" laser will be cheaper even it was cheaper to produce.

Agreed. It's going to be their flagship model, so it will almost certainly be as or more expensive than their current 73" top of the line. I'm guessing $5k or above. Maybe in a year or two the price will be half that, who knows. Especially if they are trying to keep the RPTV market alive. But, it only makes sense for them to do that if there is enough demand and profit margin in the sets to make it worth while.

Whereas I would be thrilled to see a $2-3k Laservue (that would likely but a knife in the heart of Samsung's RPTV business), I ain't holding my breath for it...

turls

04-10-08, 10:15 AM

videobruce

04-10-08, 10:26 AM

Will there be a 40 inch model tooThere isn't even going to be a 57" let alone anything smaller. Under 56" are a flat panel amrket. RPTV can't compete with those smaller sizes, just as flat panels can't compete with the over 56" market (price wise).The USA may be in a recession right now"may"???? :rolleyes:

xb1032

04-10-08, 12:24 PM

considering the MSRP for the new 73835 will be $4699 wouldn't it seem that a 73" Laservue would be $6K to $6999?

I doubt a 73" laser will be cheaper even it was cheaper to produce.

That is definitely a possibility. In my mind though with RPTV dying off that $4699 MSRP for a DLP is totally outrageous. And I'm guessing that stores like HH Gregg (who can give nice discounts on Mitsubishi or other manufacturers) won't be seing Laservue. It'll likely end up in stores like Magnolia and you'll be lucky to get 10% off. I hope I'm wrong though.

xb1032

04-10-08, 12:26 PM

I have a Pioneer Kuro 6010 and while I like the picture I'm constantly bothered by the fact that for my tastes the picture isn't bright enough. I'm really curious as to how the black levels on the LaserVue's will hold up in a darkened room and what kind of screen are on these TVs (please no SSE !!!).

mike_pro

04-10-08, 02:20 PM

They should have demoed it against a LED DLP. I don't think there is going to be thousand(s) of dollars of difference between LED DLP and this. Just another niche product at the prices they'll probably do.

Agreed, that would have been interesting. Since LED's can give off more focused, tighter spectrum light compared to a lamp, part of the advantage of the LaserVue goes away. I think I read that the LED DLP's are already abel to display a 40% wider color gamut than the bulb based sets. Some of those triangular color spectrum charts I've seen for the LED DLP's have been pretty impressive.

Still, laser will probably be better. I think it will come down to how much better is the picture quality, contrast, black levels, etc. Certainly sounds like Mitsu will be using the latest Darkchip 4. Still not clear what Samsung is using. Also, the Mitsu is apparently thinner, people seem to say about 2/3 of the depth of regular DLP. That is one of the most unimportant statistics to me, but it seems to be the thing these days.

If the picture is really as good as these early impressions are saying, then it seems like they will initially be priced at the high end, $5k or above. They will compete with people who would be buying the ultimate, like a Kuro. I would guess these will be cheaper than the Kuro, and available in bigger screen sizes to compete with the thinness of the plasmas. This will give Mitsu some mega bucks and some time to continue to develop the tech and (absurdly) make it thinner. I'm sure the price will work it's way down in 1-3 years, but who knows if the RPTV market will exist by then.

Heck, 5 years ago my 61" DLP had an MSRP over $5k, (I got mine at cost and only paid around $3k for it). For a 73" with an awesome picture, I'd consider springing similar money for it.

moonhawk

04-10-08, 06:32 PM

Agreed, that would have been interesting. Since LED's can give off more focused, tighter spectrum light compared to a lamp, part of the advantage of the LaserVue goes away. I think I read that the LED DLP's are already abel to display a 40% wider color gamut than the bulb based sets. Some of those triangular color spectrum charts I've seen for the LED DLP's have been pretty impressive.

Still, laser will probably be better. I think it will come down to how much better is the picture quality, contrast, black levels, etc. Certainly sounds like Mitsu will be using the latest Darkchip 4. Still not clear what Samsung is using. Also, the Mitsu is apparently thinner, people seem to say about 2/3 of the depth of regular DLP. That is one of the most unimportant statistics to me, but it seems to be the thing these days.

If the picture is really as good as these early impressions are saying, then it seems like they will initially be priced at the high end, $5k or above. They will compete with people who would be buying the ultimate, like a Kuro. I would guess these will be cheaper than the Kuro, and available in bigger screen sizes to compete with the thinness of the plasmas. This will give Mitsu some mega bucks and some time to continue to develop the tech and (absurdly) make it thinner. I'm sure the price will work it's way down in 1-3 years, but who knows if the RPTV market will exist by then.

Heck, 5 years ago my 61" DLP had an MSRP over $5k, (I got mine at cost and only paid around $3k for it). For a 73" with an awesome picture, I'd consider springing similar money for it.

Yeah, I paid about $5K for a 56" DLP 4 years ago--HLN series Sammy, so if these sets are really all that, I'd definitely consider the 73 incher.

But I wonder how they can possibly project a 73" image from only ten inches back (I guess a little more for 73") without some SERIOUS geometry issues.

Also, I really prefer a matte screen--SSE isn't an issue for me, and I have a really bright living room with a lot of windows--Or is that less of an issue if the set is bright enough? Reflections off a shiny screen really bother me, though.

I guess as always we'll just have to wait and see.

hithere

04-11-08, 08:20 AM

But I wonder how they can possibly project a 73" image from only ten inches back

friggin' lasers.

baddgsx

04-11-08, 09:10 AM

i too hope they get rid off screen grain under bright white areas. I truely hate that.

moonhawk

04-11-08, 09:25 AM

friggin' lasers.

Well, don''t friggin' lasers still need a friggin' lens to aim them to the right friggin' pixel?

And then friggin' optics come into play.

I could be friggin' wrong, of course. :D

mike_pro

04-11-08, 09:38 AM

Yeah, I hope there are no geometry issues introduced in the insane effort to make these as thin as plasmas or LCD's.

Maybe they mount the friggen' laser on sharks heads...

/austin powers reference

JoeSony

04-11-08, 10:52 AM

Yeah, I hope there are now geometry issues introduced in the insane effort to make these as thin as plasmas or LCD's.

Maybe the mount the friggen' laser on sharks heads...

/austin powers reference

I hope you mean no. ;)

Djoel

04-11-08, 11:24 AM

So is there still need to change the lasers after a certain amount of time ,will they burn out? Or there just friggin' lasers:D

DJoel

SpeedracerII

04-14-08, 05:45 AM

So is there still need to change the lasers after a certain amount of time ,will they burn out? Or there just friggin' lasers:D

DJoel

I think they will probably have a friggin' long life.. cause you know.. they are friggin' lasers man! (makes laser sound!) :D

sunarf

04-14-08, 07:29 AM

"LASERS" !!!

http://www.rossclurman.com/images/blog/dr_evil_laser.jpg

Carled

04-14-08, 03:13 PM

So is there still need to change the lasers after a certain amount of time ,will they burn out? Or there just friggin' lasers:D
Lasers have limited lifetimes too, but the situation is closer to that of LEDs than something bulb based. They should last for ages, but be very hard to replace when they do finally kick it.

The actual life will depend on how well they're made and how hard Mitsubishi are running them, which are both unknown at this stage.

baddgsx

04-16-08, 11:15 AM

I dont know if this was talked before, but what do you guys have for information on these laser TV processors. will they be 10bit , 12bit , or higher panels.

thanx chris

Carled

04-16-08, 04:12 PM

I dont know if this was talked before, but what do you guys have for information on these laser TV processors. will they be 10bit , 12bit , or higher panels.

thanx chris
It's a good question. 8 bit granularity with such a huge gamut is a surefire way to get posterization.

baddgsx

04-16-08, 04:49 PM

I happy this TV says it has a wider color gamut , but what if our source , such as bluray doesnt have a wide color gamut to give the TV.

Check this out!!!!!!!!!!!
http://www.audioholics.com/tweaks/calibrate-your-system/hdmi-black-levels-xvycc-rgb

Blu-ray and HD DVD movie formats are limited to 8-bit 4:2:0 YCbCr

"To our knowledge, there is no move to add xvYCC expanded color capability to the BD-ROM specification. In addition, issues of backwards compatibility would be extremely difficult to overcome, rendering any new 10-bit or higher formats unplayable on legacy BD players. The only solution would be to take advantage of larger BD storage media and issue discs with dual data streams for video (double sided or dual layer if you will).

Without mastering and the ability to store xvYCC on source material (other than games which are generated via PC video cards) it seems that xvYCC is largely a marketing gimmick.

- Clint DeBoer
Currently, Hollywood films are telecined directly to digital, with masters stored on D5 tape in 10-bit 4:2:2 format. While this is better than the 8-bit 4:2:0 present on current media, it's still not 12- or 16-bit Deep Color or even utilizing the xvYCC color space. Without mastering and the ability to store xvYCC on source material (other than games which are generated via PC video cards) it seems that xvYCC is largely a marketing gimmick, save the new lines of camcorders, etc which boast 10-bit recording and xvYCC support. Somehow, eliminating the occasional color banding in home movies isn't exactly the incredible leap in technology for which most of us were hoping."

So , the TV will have to have a really , really good processor to i guess , kinda upconvert the HD signals. Or will we need better video processors or an upconverting 12bit wide color gamut bluray player.

What do u guys think will happen in the future?

baddgsx

04-16-08, 04:55 PM

I found this poking around , Who knows if those prices are true. Seem kinda low to me if they say that these sets will be sold at high end retailers only. We'll see i guess

http://64.233.169.104/search?q=cache:KoKUvMjzIpUJ:www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2008/04/mitsubishi-laservue-hdtv.html+mitsubishi+laservue&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us

K_Thompson

04-16-08, 05:51 PM

Most likely those prices are for the 2008 DLP lineup.

Carled

04-16-08, 10:32 PM

xb1032

04-17-08, 06:02 PM

So when is Mitsubishi's yearly show again? Mary or June? I'm assuming they might provide more details then.

Tele-TV

04-18-08, 10:13 AM

^^

Isn't the show that just passed (Feb?/March?), their Line Show, the only show Mits has once a year. One of the Laservue articles the author said in June will should know pricing and availbility. Sorry to be lazy.

baddgsx

04-18-08, 05:48 PM

do u guys know if the laser tvs will indeed support 240hz frame rate. It was talked about when they first were exposed. I like 120hz alot and definitely want to see 240hz perform.

Carled

04-18-08, 10:07 PM

do u guys know if the laser tvs will indeed support 240hz frame rate. It was talked about when they first were exposed. I like 120hz alot and definitely want to see 240hz perform.
Any display with solid state lighting (LCD, OLED, projection) can potentially refresh that fast. Not sure if the DMD in DLP projectors can handle it, though.

I doubt Mitsubishi have implemented such a thing in their 1st gen laser TV.

domer90

04-19-08, 01:23 PM

If laservue is available in the 3rd quarter, does that mean April 1st (fiscal) or starting in July?

BFJ 96

04-19-08, 04:11 PM

If laservue is available in the 3rd quarter, does that mean April 1st (fiscal) or starting in July?

Anytime between Aug-Sept

baddgsx

04-19-08, 05:38 PM

http://www.sed-fernseher.eu/how-works-laser-tv-dlp-chip

it still works like a normal DLP RPTV , how are they able to get such good black levels than? and how can these sets be so thin? No rear mirror? I hope the processor doesnt do that crappy geometry correction junk.

Carled

04-19-08, 11:33 PM

it still works like a normal DLP RPTV , how are they able to get such good black levels than?
Because you can turn lasers completely off. Can't do that with a bulb.

unclepauly

04-20-08, 01:34 AM

friggin' lasers.

lol good one...

ivo welch

04-20-08, 09:13 AM

Because you can turn lasers completely off. Can't do that with a bulb.

can do this with LED's, though---and the samsung led dlp's from 2007 displayed pretty lousy contrast ratios in independent tests. probably has something to do with the ability to control stray light, too...

crackmonkey

04-20-08, 01:29 PM

Is there anyone out there that has actually seen one of the demo displays live?

If so, could I ask if you have any impressions on the viewing angle? Does it have the same viewing angle issues as all other rear projections or does the uniqueness of the laser technology allow for plasma-type viewing angles?

Thanks in advance.

Carled

04-20-08, 02:54 PM

can do this with LED's, though---and the samsung led dlp's from 2007 displayed pretty lousy contrast ratios in independent tests. probably has something to do with the ability to control stray light, too...
That's because Samsung completely dropped the ball, it's not the LED's fault. :o

ivo welch

04-21-08, 03:11 PM

That's because Samsung completely dropped the ball, it's not the LED's fault. :o

at least samsung held the ball. I am not aware of other consumer RPTVs with LEDs that are much better. am I mistaken?

we may never know what LEDs could have been...

VarmintCong

04-21-08, 05:27 PM

What do you guys think, will a 50" be available next year? 65" is too large for our TV room, maybe 55" max.

Carled

04-21-08, 06:01 PM

at least samsung held the ball. I am not aware of other consumer RPTVs with LEDs that are much better. am I mistaken?

we may never know what LEDs could have been...
No, you're quite right. It's just a shame that they were never utilized to their full potential.

Reports so far suggest that the Mitsubishi will actually perform as it should, which means it could potentially be the best looking RPTV ever.

baddgsx

04-21-08, 07:42 PM

i cant wait anymore , uggggggggghhhhh , i just hope it wont have major geometry issues

gsr

04-24-08, 08:23 PM

I'm hoping these will have a 1:1 pixel mode so a Windows desktop can be displayed without over or under scan - my understanding is that none of the Mits DLP RPTV's have such a mode right now (not sure about the recently announced 2008 models). Naturally an excellent picture and reasonable cost or pretty important too.

Owen

04-25-08, 09:30 AM

What do you guys think, will a 50" be available next year? 65" is too large for our TV room, maybe 55" max.

May I suggest you just buy a Plasma, no point in a RPTV that small.

VarmintCong

04-25-08, 10:46 AM

May I suggest you just buy a Plasma, no point in a RPTV that small.

I'm not considering plasma on principle cause of the 700W ratings, so it's either LCD or Laser. If laser has a better picture and less power consumption, I'll buy it.

xb1032

04-25-08, 11:40 AM

I'm not considering plasma on principle cause of the 700W ratings, so it's either LCD or Laser. If laser has a better picture and less power consumption, I'll buy it.

Supposedly some plasmas ar supposed to have 5 lumen technology next year which means they will be brighter, cheaper, and consume less power so if you are waiting until next year that may be an option for you. With the smallest laser TV being 65" this year I would assume the focus will be on larger screens since plasma and LCD obviously just hitting the 65" range this year in most cases.

Hipnotiq

04-25-08, 01:01 PM

What do you guys think, will a 50" be available next year? 65" is too large for our TV room, maybe 55" max.
I cannot imagine a 65" TV being too large for any room.

westa6969

04-25-08, 02:05 PM

I'm not considering plasma on principle cause of the 700W ratings, so it's either LCD or Laser. If laser has a better picture and less power consumption, I'll buy it.

Your problem is this is being built for the HT Consumer and at prices that won't give it a market at a weenie 50" when it comes to HT Sizing - they will cater to what is left in HT RPTV market after LCD/Plasma and that remains large HT sizes as it will sell at a premium and they'll have no competition so prices should hold where they desire without a competing panel if it performs as planned.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't think of ever going smaller than my 57" LCD FP for HT viewing as I know 65" is easily doable at 65-70" at 8.5' - I'd only pony up the money for the size+PQ never smaller unless it were a secondary TV and then I'm not going to spend premium Laser bucks on a secondary viewing panel.:)

CHASLX200

04-25-08, 07:14 PM

When and if my Mits 52628 bites the bullet i plan on going to a 65". This will be in my bedroom.

NismoZ

04-25-08, 11:24 PM

What are we guessing price wise? Sound and Vision said 5k? Don't think it will sell at that price...

VarmintCong

04-25-08, 11:48 PM

I cannot imagine a 65" TV being too large for any room.

For movies it's ok, but for 360 games, I find a huge screen kind of disorienting for something like Halo 3. Also having a 34" CRT, I prefer a smaller, sharper image to a larger one.

VarmintCong

04-25-08, 11:49 PM

Supposedly some plasmas ar supposed to have 5 lumen technology next year which means they will be brighter, cheaper, and consume less power so if you are waiting until next year that may be an option for you. With the smallest laser TV being 65" this year I would assume the focus will be on larger screens since plasma and LCD obviously just hitting the 65" range this year in most cases.

Good point yes - if I buy in 2009, I'll consider the low energy plasmas.

In any case, I'll buy the best picture for the money, whether that's plasma, Laser, or LED LCD.

xb1032

04-25-08, 11:55 PM

...In any case, I'll buy the best picture for the money, whether that's plasma, Laser, or LED LCD.

I'm with you on this one! :)

Carled

04-26-08, 02:47 AM

I'm with you on this one! :)
Same here. To paraphrase Bill Clinton, it's the picture quality, stupid.

tarche

04-26-08, 09:00 AM

For movies it's ok, but for 360 games, I find a huge screen kind of disorienting for something like Halo 3. Also having a 34" CRT, I prefer a smaller, sharper image to a larger one.

You get used to the larger size REALLY quick. We were playing xbox 360 on a ~48 inch tv and recently upgraded to a relatively cheap $800 720p dlp projector. It's massive and razor sharp. Video games dramatically benefit from a larger display.

I understand about room constraints however. I have a 55" sxrd upstairs that was limited to the space between two doorways. From where I watch, I wish it were bigger, but I had no other option given where the builder put the closets. Not everyone has space for a larger image, but from my experience its best to max out the screen size for your room.

I'm anxiously looking forward to laser. I hope it can do larger sizes cheaper and without any rainbows.

VarmintCong

04-26-08, 09:52 AM

You get used to the larger size REALLY quick. We were playing xbox 360 on a ~48 inch tv and recently upgraded to a relatively cheap $800 720p dlp projector. It's massive and razor sharp. Video games dramatically benefit from a larger display.

I understand about room constraints however. I have a 55" sxrd upstairs that was limited to the space between two doorways. From where I watch, I wish it were bigger, but I had no other option given where the builder put the closets. Not everyone has space for a larger image, but from my experience its best to max out the screen size for your room.

I'm anxiously looking forward to laser. I hope it can do larger sizes cheaper and without any rainbows.

Maybe, but put it this way, my budget is like $2500 - so I'd rather get a 46" w/ better quality than a 60" of lower quality.

mobius

04-26-08, 05:47 PM

I'm not considering plasma on principle cause of the 700W ratings, so it's either LCD or Laser. If laser has a better picture and less power consumption, I'll buy it.

The rating on the back of the set is MAX consumption- not average.

Ripnickus

04-28-08, 10:13 PM

They updated the site

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

They say 160 degree viewing angle on the faq section. Is that good?

Some new pictures too.

Carled

04-28-08, 11:18 PM

They say 160 degree viewing angle on the faq section. Is that good?
If the picture quality was barely affected up until 160 degrees, yes that's good. But some of the viewing angle numbers you see quoted on LCD and RPTVs aren't so much optimistic as an outright lie, so we'll have to make our own judgement there.

OctaveDoctor

04-29-08, 11:01 AM

Mitsu site says availability Q3. Does anyone know if that means July, August, or September? Not sure what NDAs are still in effect.

TMSKILZ

04-29-08, 11:58 AM

Mitsu site says availability Q3. Does anyone know if that means July, August, or September? Not sure what NDAs are still in effect.

My guess would be that means Aug!

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-29-08, 12:03 PM

Your problem is this is being built for the HT Consumer and at prices that won't give it a market at a weenie 50" when it comes to HT Sizing - they will cater to what is left in HT RPTV market after LCD/Plasma and that remains large HT sizes as it will sell at a premium and they'll have no competition so prices should hold where they desire without a competing panel if it performs as planned.

I know I sure as hell wouldn't think of ever going smaller than my 57" LCD FP for HT viewing as I know 65" is easily doable at 65-70" at 8.5' - I'd only pony up the money for the size+PQ never smaller unless it were a secondary TV and then I'm not going to spend premium Laser bucks on a secondary viewing panel.:)

You can get a top tier 50" for a reasonable sum of money, whereas to get top tier(not lcd) of 60" or more you are paying over $5K...so there is room for Laser at 60"+ for sure, but most likely not much of a market at 50".
I can't seem to find what you guys feel is the most recent expected prices for these, can someone inform me?

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-29-08, 12:05 PM

What are we guessing price wise? Sound and Vision said 5k? Don't think it will sell at that price...

It certainly will "if" its' PQ is worthy. - imo

VarmintCong

04-29-08, 03:26 PM

You can get a top tier 50" for a reasonable sum of money, whereas to get top tier(not lcd) of 60" or more you are paying over $5K...so there is room for Laser at 60"+ for sure, but most likely not much of a market at 50".

LED-backlit LCDs are coming in at over $3000 at 52" - if laser can match their picture quality and brightness for less money, I think it'll sell.

It all depends on how good laser looks - like the best rear projections, or like the best plasmas.

crackmonkey

04-29-08, 04:07 PM

"It all depends on how good laser looks - like the best rear projections, or like the best plasmas."

I couldn't agree with you any more on this comment.

And that's what i think it will come down to for a lot of folks to be sold on this considering the pricing premium they are hinting at. If it is looking like the best plasma (the kuro) but with richer color and larger size i think a lot of people will be emptying their pockets. I don't think having the 'best rear projection' on the market is going to blow too many people away at this point unless they price it lower IMHO.

I wish they would release some new info... contrast, exact pricing, exact release dates, etc... But i can't wait to walk into my local store and see it side by side with a Pio Kuro and Sony LCD. Time will tell, fingers crossed!

Carled

04-29-08, 05:09 PM

I wish they would release some new info... contrast, exact pricing, exact release dates, etc...
On/off contrast will assumedly be infinate given the lighting tech used. ANSI contrast should be high like a typical 1-chip DLP.

Where it runs the risk of being kicked to the kerb is screen gain and resulting viewing angles, geometry issues, potential risk of RBE and headaches from a scanning backlight, market resistance to RPTVs, possible difficulty in calibrating the colours to the correct colour points, and so on.

For it to become a success at similar price points to same-size flat panels it doesn't just need to have comparable picture quality, it needs to beat them outright, such is the harsh reality of rear projection.

dainbramaged1984

04-29-08, 08:24 PM

Carled

04-29-08, 11:43 PM

Hey guys, I'm wondering if this set will feature all 2073600 (1920x1080) micro display mirrors on the DLP Chip or will it use wobulation to make up for the missing mirrors. Tried doing a search about it but haven't been successful. Anyone knows anything about it?
Wobulation is dead and buried. The idea itself wasn't as bad as some made out, but they never could get past the negative customer reaction to the technology. As soon as 1080p panels reached economics of scale TI quietly buried it and swore never to mention it again.

mcnabney

04-30-08, 12:11 AM

Wobulation is dead and buried. The idea itself wasn't as bad as some made out, but they never could get past the negative customer reaction to the technology. As soon as 1080p panels reached economics of scale TI quietly buried it and swore never to mention it again.

Never mention it, but continue to use it. Just a new name. Like Smoothvision, or Cinemasmooth or whatever. Add it to the list of questions unanswered:
Release date
Price (or at least a closer price range, $1800-$4700, yeah - that tells me something)
Contrast, including real ANSI numbers
Refresh - 120 or 240?
Wobulated?
True viewing angle, horizontal and vertical
Darkchip4? (2008 Samsung LEDs don't, high-end FP do)
Wall mounted? Really? Special mount to handle the extra torque?
Geometry?

They have also kind of priced themselves into the corner. Their current 2008 lamp DLP RPTVs are not cheap. Look good, but not cheap. I would guess that the 65" model will land at $3999. Sorry, but that is waaaaaay too much for unproven tech coming out for the almost dead RPTV market.

dainbramaged1984

04-30-08, 12:18 AM

thanks guys... It all looks very promising but way too many questions yet unanswered. Guess it's a wait and see game.

moonhawk

04-30-08, 01:30 AM

Darkchip4? (2008 Samsung LEDs don't, high-end FP do)

That remains speculation, unless you have a (previously unknown) definitive source.

davegow

04-30-08, 06:49 AM

... I would guess that the 65" model will land at $3999. Sorry, but that is waaaaaay too much for unproven tech coming out for the almost dead RPTV market.

It is far less than the price of similar-sized flat-panels. So for the moment it is very competitive. When the next-generation FP plants get going long enough to write off some of their tooling costs then things might be different.

Look at the AVS threads of LCD and plasma flat-panels. There are lots of worries about image quality issues such as clouding, banding, colour distortion etc. A really superior tech can still find an audience.

We here on AVS have this hang-up on labels like RPTV. Most people don't. They want a display device that works and couldn't care less what's inside.

crackmonkey

04-30-08, 08:17 AM

"We here on AVS have this hang-up on labels like RPTV. Most people don't. They want a display device that works and couldn't care less what's inside."

I have to disagree with the 'most people don't' portion of your statement. The market is deciding that they like the 'sexy sleek' profile of flat panel displays. That's a very large part of the reason why rear projection is dieing and slim displays are winning (and they keep getting slimmer).

sjchmura

04-30-08, 09:22 AM

The 2008 Mits are confirmed to have darkchip 4 (see 2008 owners thread).

I wonder with DC4 if the laser (for the cost) and the 5" savings will be that much better for the price? Given that the new 73" with Dark4 will be only 17" deep.... one has to wonder if the $2k will be worth it - considering how good even in no light the black/white was last year.

gsr

04-30-08, 09:25 AM

Price (or at least a closer price range, $1800-$4700, yeah - that tells me something)
The 2008 Diamond series 65 and 73 inch models have been announced at $3400 and $4700, so your guess of around $3900 for the 65 inch model is probably about right. I would expect the laser models to be at least a little more expensive.

Darkchip4? (2008 Samsung LEDs don't, high-end FP do)
It has been announced that the 2008 Mits DLP's will have Darkchip4 at http://www.twice.com/article/CA6553215.html?nid=3186. I'd be more than a bit surprised if the laser models don't also use Darkchip4 given that they're being pushed as the premium option.

Geometry?
To me, this is one of the more important questions. Most of the RPTV's currently available have all sort of geometry issues largely because the companies are trying to make the cabinets too shallow. I understand why they want shallow cabinets, but it doesn't make sense when it's at the expense of good geometry.

I would guess that the 65" model will land at $3999. Sorry, but that is waaaaaay too much for unproven tech coming out for the almost dead RPTV market.
Given the prices of comparably sized quality LCD and plasma displays, I don't think that prices is too high at all as long as the picture quality lives up to most of the hype and doesn't have more than minor geometry issues.

I also want to know if these (and the rest of the 2008 Mits line) will have 1:1 pixel modes so you can display a Windows desktop without any overscan.

davegow

04-30-08, 11:25 AM

=crackmonkey;13760716...I have to disagree with the 'most people don't' portion of your statement. The market is deciding that they like the 'sexy sleek' profile of flat panel displays...

Looking good as a household appliance is a part of the package, agreed. But my point was about labels. If laser RPTVs deliver a stunning picture without looking too clunky they'll have a market, particularly if a couple of thousand dollars is at stake. Anyway we'll see.

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-30-08, 11:39 AM

LED-backlit LCDs are coming in at over $3000 at 52" - if laser can match their picture quality and brightness for less money, I think it'll sell.

It all depends on how good laser looks - like the best rear projections, or like the best plasmas.

I would hope they would be better than LED LCD's.
I am hoping for better than the best plasmas....except for viewing angle.

xb1032

04-30-08, 11:40 AM

...We here on AVS have this hang-up on labels like RPTV. Most people don't. They want a display device that works and couldn't care less what's inside.

Actually I think it's the other way around. We here at AVS are the ones who notice all the flaws in PQ because we are picky and obsessive. Most consumers want thin bright LCDs and if the guy doesn't want that he gets pressured into that by his wife/girlfriend.

Laservue has one strike against it right off the bat not being a thin panel so in my mind it's worth less just because of that. But I'm all about PQ so if it's all that my opinion can be swayed.

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-30-08, 11:43 AM

On/off contrast will assumedly be infinate given the lighting tech used. ANSI contrast should be high like a typical 1-chip DLP.

Where it runs the risk of being kicked to the kerb is screen gain and resulting viewing angles, geometry issues, potential risk of RBE and headaches from a scanning backlight, market resistance to RPTVs, possible difficulty in calibrating the colours to the correct colour points, and so on.

For it to become a success at similar price points to same-size flat panels it doesn't just need to have comparable picture quality, it needs to beat them outright, such is the harsh reality of rear projection.

1. A typical 1-chip DLP doesn't have very good ansi contrast.

2. I agree completely.

3. I agree completely.

That said, if they are just outstanding they will get serious looks from 'almost' everyone.

mcnabney

04-30-08, 08:55 PM

That remains speculation, unless you have a (previously unknown) definitive source.

The front projectors are crowing about DC4. Mitsubishi's 2008 lineup has been announced as DC4. And perhaps most importantly, when 2008 and 2007 Samsung LED DLPs are viewed side by side they are identical. We have all seen the pictures from CES and it should be very obvious in a side by side test. Add the fact that Samsung is almost ignoring their 2008 LED DLP release it appears that they are just getting the 2008s out of the door and will be joining Sony in 2009.

The 2008 Mits are confirmed to have darkchip 4 (see 2008 owners thread).

I wonder with DC4 if the laser (for the cost) and the 5" savings will be that much better for the price? Given that the new 73" with Dark4 will be only 17" deep.... one has to wonder if the $2k will be worth it - considering how good even in no light the black/white was last year.
and

The 2008 Diamond series 65 and 73 inch models have been announced at $3400 and $4700, so your guess of around $3900 for the 65 inch model is probably about right. I would expect the laser models to be at least a little more expensive.

To me, this is one of the more important questions. Most of the RPTV's currently available have all sort of geometry issues largely because the companies are trying to make the cabinets too shallow. I understand why they want shallow cabinets, but it doesn't make sense when it's at the expense of good geometry.

Given the prices of comparably sized quality LCD and plasma displays, I don't think that prices is too high at all as long as the picture quality lives up to most of the hype and doesn't have more than minor geometry issues.

Mitsubishi's 2008 DLPs are grossly overpriced. The want about $1500 more for their lamp-based DLPs than Samsung's 650s. The only person I know that bought one is now on his second. Mitsubishi reliability as always. Samsung and Sony appear to have price equality in the areas they compete and Samsung is pricing their LED DLP at a tad over $2k for 61". Also remember two key points. The Phlatlight LEDs are semi-coherent and have many of the benefits of the laser. And second, the added color depth that lasers can offer is irrelevant until a media source adopts that ability.
I would also point out that a 65" plasma doesn't cost that much anymore and LCD prices have also been steadily falling. Mitsubishi doesn't get to compete against 2007 flat panels, it has to go against the current batch at dropping prices.

I would hope they would be better than LED LCD's.
I am hoping for better than the best plasmas....except for viewing angle.

Other companies have been working on laser technology. Do you think there is a reason that only one company is releasing it? Ultimately the thin factor is a huge X against it. If viewing angles are similar to other RPTV I imagine the industry will just shrug their shoulders and continue anticipating OLED. If LaserVue is all that they are suggesting they still will not be able to charge a premium price and sell large numbers because the device is deficient in being flat. Does anyone really think that Laservue can beat out quality plasma and DLP when priced the same?

Remember, Vizio will sell you a 60" plasma that you can hang on your wall right now for $2500. (yes, I know it is not 1080p)

I am still holding out hope, but after seeing Mitsubishi's 2008 DLP prices I imagine that Laservue will be a no-go based solely on price.:(

Stew4msu

04-30-08, 09:10 PM

Remember, Vizio will sell you a 60" plasma that you can hang on your wall right now for $2500. (yes, I know it is not 1080p)

And?

Most of us in this thread are looking to buy a big screen TV, not a 60".

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-30-08, 09:22 PM

And?

Most of us in this thread are looking to buy a big screen TV, not a 60".

Uh, this is about a 65". If 60" is not a "big screen", then 65" isn't either ;)

mcnabney

04-30-08, 09:33 PM

And?

Most of us in this thread are looking to buy a big screen TV, not a 60".

I would disagree. Big screen fans go to the front projector boards. RPTV is for value and usability in a brighter room. To go back on point, the Laservue was displayed (next to a top LCD and plasma) in a dim room. That may not suggest a lit-room weakness, but it is suspicious. I understand about wanting to display a product at its best, but real world situations make for the best method of comparison.

Stew4msu

04-30-08, 09:33 PM

Nope, it's not, but it's getting there.

I'm looking at the 73"

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-30-08, 09:33 PM

Nope, it's not, but it's getting there.

I'm looking at the 73"

You do realize people have different standards for what they consider a "big screen" don't you?

Stew4msu

04-30-08, 09:36 PM

Yes, but they're wrong.

Daniel Murray

04-30-08, 09:42 PM

Yes, but they're wrong.

LOL:eek:

gsr

04-30-08, 10:01 PM

You do realize people have different standards for what they consider a "big screen" don't you?
While that's true, there are lots of reasons why people go with one option over another. In my case I want the biggest screen I can get (to a point - there are other considerations, such as quality), but front projection simply isn't an option for me. So that leaves me with a max screen size of around 73" (Mits DLP RPTV). Plasma pretty much tops out at 65" and the good ones (Panasonic and Pioneer) are still pretty expensive. If Pioneer were going to release a 65" 9G Elite Kuro, I would very likely go with that option and it looks like the 850 series Panasonics may be very competitive with the Kuros, but they won't be out till this fall and the prices are still somewhat unknown from what I can find. The large LCD's are waaay too expensive.

If the DLP RPTV's didn't have bowing / geometry / reflection problems they would probably be the best option for me. They're at least a bit less expensive than equivalent size LCD and Plasma sets and have excellent picture quality (even if not quite as good as the best plasma options, but then they're a lot less expensive). They have absolutely zero risk of image retention / burn in and don't have motion blur problems. They use less energy than the other options - not a huge consideration for me, but definitely a nice plus.

The reduced depth of the laser DLP cabinets definitely concerns me. If they're having geometry problems now, making the cabinets shallower isn't going to help. These sets may be using lasers, but that doesn't change the fact that the geometry problems presumably come from the mirrors used to get the image reflected onto the screen.

The one thing that is such a big deal to so many people about the flat panels is that they're flat (of course) and can be hung on a wall. I don't care at all about that as whichever option I go with will sit on a Salamander Synergy cabinet, so if it's 2" deep or 20" deep there's really no difference to me.

E-A-G-L-E-S

04-30-08, 10:24 PM

BMHEPNER

04-30-08, 11:33 PM

Looking to get the 73" laservue - anybody know the height and width dimensions so I'll know if it will fit or if I should just get the 73" "lamp" DLP TV

mcnabney

04-30-08, 11:56 PM

I don't disagree with anything you said.
For me, since I'm only ~8/9' away from the screen I don't need something that big.
Would I like a 65"+ kuro...heck yeah! Could I reasonably afford one anytime soon, heck no.
So for me, the best 50" panel I could afford was my best option the most recent time around.
I actually very shortly owned a average 65" Toshiba DLP, also a Sony KDS-60A300 and a Samsung HL-T6187S before moving to my current PDP.

Well, technically for 1080p at your viewing distance you would want a 59" screen for recommended SMTPE viewing and about 72" for THX standards. A 50" display would probably be fine with 720p at that distance. Might want to consider that and save a pile of money.

E-A-G-L-E-S

05-01-08, 12:15 AM

Yeah, the only displays currently that I'd want to stretch for would be the elite and non-elite 60" kuro's and I just can't afford them at this point.
So I sacrifice size for PQ, wish Icould have my cake and eat it too....soon enough.

Carled

05-01-08, 03:27 AM

While that's true, there are lots of reasons why people go with one option over another. In my case I want the biggest screen I can get (to a point - there are other considerations, such as quality), but front projection simply isn't an option for me. So that leaves me with a max screen size of around 73" (Mits DLP RPTV). Plasma pretty much tops out at 65" and the good ones (Panasonic and Pioneer) are still pretty expensive. If Pioneer were going to release a 65" 9G Elite Kuro, I would very likely go with that option and it looks like the 850 series Panasonics may be very competitive with the Kuros, but they won't be out till this fall and the prices are still somewhat unknown from what I can find. The large LCD's are waaay too expensive.
Furthering the "what we're looking for" discussion, I have a rather bad habit with being overcritical of displays shortcomings which tends to make me run away screaming from the horrible colour spectrum of most flourescent backlights, the poor white field performance of most plasmas,the unpleasent rainbows I see in most DLPs, and the miniscule sweet spot of most other RPTVs. So once we get to a display that doesn't bother me, I have very little financial leeway in terms of how big I can go. I really don't care if the size is a fair bit less than 73" if it means that I don't get histrionic about the picture, but I mean, hey, if Mitsubishi price it so I can afford it then I'd gladly partake in their charity too.

GoCaboNow

05-01-08, 06:50 PM

Mitsubishi better be careful how they price the laservue. Just cruising this, other sites and the local B&M's there seems to be very little momentum in the RP camp right now. I think a lot of folks that might have bought a high end RP have moved their $3-5k to a premier flat panel or fp. I just don't see a lot of angst on this site from folks digging for info on a 70"+ rp tv. In this thread I see more comments of needing that 73" Laser but for the most part, in general, I feel like the masses have moved on and away from RP. My particular situation screams a 70"+ non fp with no visual benefit of a thin design. I really hope Laservue is the answer but times have changed, even from a year ago, and it will be harder to sell a rp against the flat competition - even to me!

Artwood

05-01-08, 07:39 PM

I truely believe that Mitsubishi's Laservue is Rear Projection's last stand.

I hope it turns out great. I hope that for every new technology that comes out.

oink

05-04-08, 05:12 AM

The updated Laservue site states the 65" will be released Q3 and the 73" later in 2008.

Man, I can't wait until the end of the year....:(

Guess I'll have to look at the Samsung LED 73" instead.

turls

05-04-08, 07:03 AM

Guess I'll have to look at the Samsung LED 73" instead.

That doesn't exist. 67" is the biggest one and it isn't out yet.

sjchmura

05-04-08, 10:35 AM

The 72" Sammy is due (according to multiple online sites) June 1. The new Mits with Darkchip 4 (which sammy does not have) are hitting shelves now with 65" and May 15th according to worst buy for the 73" (cheapest version).

I really like the Samsung name and reliability vs the Mits but the 73" mits and Darkchip4 coupled to the "hey, you can get it for price X" makes me think of trying the mits...

JackNine

05-04-08, 11:59 AM

Mitsubishi's 2008 DLPs are grossly overpriced. The want about $1500 more for their lamp-based DLPs than Samsung's 650s. The only person I know that bought one is now on his second. Mitsubishi reliability as always. Samsung and Sony appear to have price equality in the areas they compete and Samsung is pricing their LED DLP at a tad over $2k for 61". Also remember two key points. The Phlatlight LEDs are semi-coherent and have many of the benefits of the laser. And second, the added color depth that lasers can offer is irrelevant until a media source adopts that ability.

Where are you getting this info? Street price on the Samsung 650 (61") is $200 less than the street price on the 2008 Mitsu 735 (65"). For $200 more you're getting Dark Chip 4, four more inches of screen, and a few other things that Samsung doesn't have. I'd say this is a lot closer than you think.

I would also point out that a 65" plasma doesn't cost that much anymore.

Huh??? What world do you live in? Show me where I can get a quality 1080p 60-65" Plasma or LCD with solid features for anywhere close to the street price of either the Samsung or the Mitsu and I'll buy you one. Vizio and Insignia don't count, dude.

mcnabney

05-04-08, 07:56 PM

Huh??? What world do you live in? Show me where I can get a quality 1080p 60-65" Plasma or LCD with solid features for anywhere close to the street price of either the Samsung or the Mitsu and I'll buy you one. Vizio and Insignia don't count, dude.

Why shouldn't Vizio or Insignia not count? They use the exact same panels. I was stunned to see my Dad's new Philips LCD fail to beat his year old Vizio LCD. Since then I stopped using labels to dictate ability. The MSRP for the Vizio 60" plasma is $2499. The bulb-lit WD-65833 costs just a little more for 5 more inches.

FYI - I am not advocating purchasing Vizio, I have no intentions of doing that. But seriously, the core argument for RPTV has been price. If regular bulb-powered RPTV is priced near cheap flat panels someone should just stick a fork in them.

moonhawk

05-04-08, 08:05 PM

mcnabney

05-04-08, 08:32 PM

Source for Sammy does not have DC4?

Go to a big-box store and look at them. The 87/89s are usually right next to the 750s. The image is identical. If you can also see one of the new Mitsus you will see what Samsung is missing.

lcaillo

05-04-08, 08:46 PM

westa6969

05-04-08, 10:52 PM

Why shouldn't Vizio or Insignia not count? They use the exact same panels. I was stunned to see my Dad's new Philips LCD fail to beat his year old Vizio LCD. Since then I stopped using labels to dictate ability. The MSRP for the Vizio 60" plasma is $2499. The bulb-lit WD-65833 costs just a little more for 5 more inches.

FYI - I am not advocating purchasing Vizio, I have no intentions of doing that. But seriously, the core argument for RPTV has been price. If regular bulb-powered RPTV is priced near cheap flat panels someone should just stick a fork in them.

They are garbage panels is why! Worst PDP I ever saw was a Vizio and Insignia the BB Brand POS? Anyone buying this crap certainly doesn't need a forum to buy such garbage - I say they need a White Cane with a Red Tip!

The discussion is for state of the art Lazer Vue and other Top of the Heap Panels not the bottom of the barrel. The Mits is supposed to be the Lexus of TV's and comparing the price and inferiority to this and the Kuro and other top panels is like offering up a Kia to a Lexus as if they compare in any way they are obvious apples and fruit flies. :cool:

GoCaboNow

05-04-08, 11:11 PM

Maybe that is the point. When J6Pack walks in to BB/CC the worst PDP screen he sees STILL looks better than any RP that is set up. Heck, I saw a maxcent 58" right next to a Panny that looked eerily comparable. (Panny was a third more than the maxcent) Although I guess that is off the point..but I think those low end panels take money that could have gone to RP and so the RP mfg's are getting out of the game. (when they should be working making better and cheaper LCOS, LED or Laser sets - for me)

Owen

05-04-08, 11:26 PM

Never did understand the notion that RPTV’s are a “cheap” alternative to flat panels.
I have always looked to RPTV’s to offer a screen size and picture quality that is just not available in a flat panel.

If Mitsubishi can deliver a top quality 80” I will be interested even if its $10k,
I also don’t care how deep it is.

Unless flat panel manufacturers can come up with a 70” plus display with black levels much better then a Kuro I’m not interested.

It will be interesting to see how the Mitsubishi stacks up and what sizes are available.

cstrasz

05-05-08, 12:15 AM

moonhawk

05-05-08, 01:20 AM

Go to a big-box store and look at them. The 87/89s are usually right next to the 750s. The image is identical. If you can also see one of the new Mitsus you will see what Samsung is missing.

So, the source is your anecdotal, subjective opinion?

egrady

05-05-08, 09:36 AM

Out of curiosity, how does the DarkChip 3's black levels compare to Plasma's in general? I'm going to be upgrading to a DLP set pretty soon and coming from a 6 year old Pioneer CRT RPTV. Wondering if I'm going to be getting worse blacks or about the same.

I went from a Pioneer Elite 510 to a Samsung DLP so I can comment on this. Fixed pixel displays are just now approaching the black level of what I got from my 510 years ago. The Pioneer Kuro is the only newer set of any kind I've seen that approaches the 510 in terms of black level. DLP is not there yet, perhaps the Mits Laser might. So, you are likely to end up with a step backward in terms of blacks.

Where the DLP will be the biggest step up is in light output. My 510 needed a fairly dark room to look its best, it simply didn't put out enough light to overcome ambiant room light. My Samsung is ok on dark scenes, but with a really dark scene in a darkened room it is well short of the 510. But, it is much better with sports and daylight scenes. There is no substitute for the ability to crank out the light output when you want to.

cstrasz

05-05-08, 05:00 PM

Thanks egrady :) Yeah that is definitely one thing I'm looking forward to. My pioneer SD533 has been great for the years i've had it but it's starting to dim too much. Even when it was new, light output was nothing like it is on these digital sets. Looking forward to hearing about the black levels on the lasers.

moonhawk

05-05-08, 05:35 PM

Samsung reliability? That's a laugh, particularly with respect to the DLP product, which will put a lot of service techs' kids through college.

What is your opinion of Mitsubishi reliability in general?

Thanks.

gsr

05-05-08, 06:20 PM

What is your opinion of Mitsubishi reliability in general?
For me, their products have been very reliable. I've got a 10+ year old 31" CRT TV that's never given me any trouble and currently serves as my bedroom tv, a 65" RPTV (WS-65909) that I've had for about 6 years without any major issues, and a 10+ year old VCR that I passed along to my dad a few years ago when his Sony VCR died.

The RPTV has burn-in in the 4:3 area (presumably my fault, not theirs) and has a few annoying features (such as putting up a "remember to turn on your screen saver" message in super bright mode every time I select the VGA input). It has also shut off / locked up randomly a few times over the years. Overall, I've been happy with it. If I were to go back in time knowing what I know now, I would have gone with a non-Diamond series HD ready model as I've never really had any use for the firewire inputs or the built in HD tuner. This would have saved me a lot of money without sacrificing much at all in the process.

The VCR is finally starting to make noises that suggest it's on the way out but it's had a LOT of use over the years, so no complaints there.

I'm currently looking to upgrade the 65" RPTV and can't say I'm overly thrilled with any of the options right now. The Pioneer Kuro line doesn't have anything larger than 60", most of the DLP sets seem to have geometry / reflection problems, the LCD's I've seen have motion blur and are too pricey in the size range I want. If someone were to hold a gun to my head and forced me to make a decision right now, I'd probably go with one of the largest DLP RPTV options. I'm definitely waiting to see how the laser DLP's look when they come out later this year.

sjchmura

05-05-08, 06:41 PM

Also the fact that Samsung refused to comment at CES on DK4, does NOT advertise (unlike Mits), and plane looks like last years vs. the better of the mits makes me thing Mitsubishi is NOT lying about the the DK4.

K_Thompson

05-05-08, 06:44 PM

For me, their products have been very reliable. I've got a 10+ year old 31" CRT TV that's never given me any trouble and currently serves as my bedroom tv, a 65" RPTV (WS-65909) that I've had for about 6 years without any major issues, and a 10+ year old VCR that I passed along to my dad a few years ago when his Sony VCR died.

The RPTV has burn-in in the 4:3 area (presumably my fault, not theirs) and has a few annoying features (such as putting up a "remember to turn on your screen saver" message in super bright mode every time I select the VGA input). It has also shut off / locked up randomly a few times over the years. Overall, I've been happy with it. If I were to go back in time knowing what I know now, I would have gone with a non-Diamond series HD ready model as I've never really had any use for the firewire inputs or the built in HD tuner. This would have saved me a lot of money without sacrificing much at all in the process.

The VCR is finally starting to make noises that suggest it's on the way out but it's had a LOT of use over the years, so no complaints there.

I'm currently looking to upgrade the 65" RPTV and can't say I'm overly thrilled with any of the options right now. The Pioneer Kuro line doesn't have anything larger than 60", most of the DLP sets seem to have geometry / reflection problems, the LCD's I've seen have motion blur and are too pricey in the size range I want. If someone were to hold a gun to my head and forced me to make a decision right now, I'd probably go with one of the largest DLP RPTV options. I'm definitely waiting to see how the laser DLP's look when they come out later this year.

I'm in the same situation and haven't been too impressed with my replacement options either. I have the Mits 65" WS-65908, which I believe is the model year prior to yours. It's the Diamond series, but lacks your built-in HD tuner and firewire inputs. Basically just an HD-ready monitor with only 7" guns so in reality it can't even fully resolve a 1080i signal. It's been a rock solid performer, but I've noticed it's not nearly as bright as it use to be and I want a 1080P set with HMDI inputs so I'm starting to feel a bad case of upgrade-itis coming on. Laservue might be the answer, maybe not. Time will tell.