Considering the price point they're targetting, AVS members might be the only people to buy one. :p

Less than $2500?;)

Mitsubishi is having a press conference next within the next week for this thing in New York. All major press is invited and you will be seeing layouts in USA Today, Times Magazine, etc...

^finally!!!!

I guess the movie theater is second rate to you. Need to put up a big protective screen. :D

Who needs a Movie theater! Went recently while we had power failures for several days and couldn't watch my 57" Sharp and saw Ironman which I enjoyed but the Theater PQ simply sucks big time. Dim/Dull/Grainy and washed out colors and flickering throughout and ZERO POP!

My Sharp with BD and HD DVD and HD Premiums simply blows away anything in the theater after an absence of over a year I found the same piss poor theater PQ from a year earlier and there is no reason to return except I may have another power outage of a few days again. In fact viewing in the Theater was like viewing RPTV's out of their sweet spot like they display them in the stores now which is why the sales are falling off a cliff - hopefully this Laser wil have a bigger sweet spot.:)

Less than $2500?;)

haha i wish, but its going to be more like $5000-7000 range for a 65-73 inch set.

Mitsubishi is having a press conference next within the next week for this thing in New York. All major press is invited and you will be seeing layouts in USA Today, Times Magazine, etc...

link??

haha i wish, but its going to be more like $5000-7000 range for a 65-73 inch set.



link??

And if it is only available in select stores then I don't expect much discounting to come (at first at least).

haha i wish, but its going to be more like $5000-7000 range for a 65-73 inch set.

snap

Well if that's the case, the geometry better be PERFECT, able to be calibrated correctly, and stunning blacks. If those things are met they might be able to make a case for those price points. Competing tech does have those things (LN5781 LCD, etc).

Well if that's the case, the geometry better be PERFECT, able to be calibrated correctly, and stunning blacks. If those things are met they might be able to make a case for those price points.
And have absolutely no rainbows for us senstitive types.

Think i will give laser a good year before i jump in, lets see if there is any kinks to be worked out.

Think i will give laser a good year before i jump in, lets see if there is any kinks to be worked out.

Of course there will be. There's still kinks with DLP, LCD, and plasma! ;)

Of course there will be. There's still kinks with DLP, LCD, and plasma! ;)
It's about time for a top up. Wouldn't want to run out, now.

Who needs a Movie theater! Went recently while we had power failures for several days and couldn't watch my 57" Sharp and saw Ironman which I enjoyed but the Theater PQ simply sucks big time. Dim/Dull/Grainy and washed out colors and flickering throughout and ZERO POP!

My Sharp with BD and HD DVD and HD Premiums simply blows away anything in the theater after an absence of over a year I found the same piss poor theater PQ from a year earlier and there is no reason to return except I may have another power outage of a few days again. In fact viewing in the Theater was like viewing RPTV's out of their sweet spot like they display them in the stores now which is why the sales are falling off a cliff - hopefully this Laser wil have a bigger sweet spot.:)

You'll be suprised how good a DLP full digital projection looks.The PQ is awesome .I saw 3:10 to Yuma in theatre it looked phenomenol

You'll be suprised how good a DLP full digital projection looks.The PQ is awesome .I saw 3:10 to Yuma in theatre it looked phenomenol

I won't go to a movie theater...unless it is a DLP.;)

Novel laser sources for large-venue projection markets

http://spie.org/x24934.xml?highlight=x2408

Novel laser sources for large-venue projection markets

http://spie.org/x24934.xml?highlight=x2408

i dont see it happening. people are arrested for shooting hand pointers into airplanes.
Why would a projector with laser be OK?

Who needs a Movie theater! Went recently while we had power failures for several days and couldn't watch my 57" Sharp and saw Ironman which I enjoyed but the Theater PQ simply sucks big time. Dim/Dull/Grainy and washed out colors and flickering throughout and ZERO POP!

My Sharp with BD and HD DVD and HD Premiums simply blows away anything in the theater after an absence of over a year I found the same piss poor theater PQ from a year earlier and there is no reason to return except I may have another power outage of a few days again. In fact viewing in the Theater was like viewing RPTV's out of their sweet spot like they display them in the stores now which is why the sales are falling off a cliff - hopefully this Laser wil have a bigger sweet spot.:)

i think it depends on the theatre.
There is a multi theatre near my home and it seem like hit and miss with me.
Sometimes I get the good room that is HUGE and the picture looks phenom. Other times I get a smaller room that has poor lightin and the picture is off-center or the color is jacked.
There doesnt seem to be much standardization in theatres.

i dont see it happening. people are arrested for shooting hand pointers into airplanes.
Why would a projector with laser be OK?
Because the light intensity is pretty much the same as any other projector. There's nothing unsafe about it if implemented properly.

i dont see it happening. people are arrested for shooting hand pointers into airplanes.
Why would a projector with laser be OK?

Because you're not pointing the laser at people, you're pointing it at the chip, which spreads the light out over the screen.

What's dangerous about a laser is the coherence of the beam, which concentrates the energy on a small area. Spread it out like that, and it's just ordinary light.

Mitsubishi is having a press conference next within the next week for this thing in New York. All major press is invited and you will be seeing layouts in USA Today, Times Magazine, etc...

ahmmm...when next week?

Who needs a Movie theater! Went recently while we had power failures for several days and couldn't watch my 57" Sharp and saw Ironman which I enjoyed but the Theater PQ simply sucks big time. Dim/Dull/Grainy and washed out colors and flickering throughout and ZERO POP!

My Sharp with BD and HD DVD and HD Premiums simply blows away anything in the theater after an absence of over a year I found the same piss poor theater PQ from a year earlier and there is no reason to return except I may have another power outage of a few days again. In fact viewing in the Theater was like viewing RPTV's out of their sweet spot like they display them in the stores now which is why the sales are falling off a cliff - hopefully this Laser wil have a bigger sweet spot.:)

It's funny you mention sweet spots. Do you think your Sharp doesn't have any? Look at your set from an angle and watch your blacks turn grey. Point is, cabinet depth is what kills RPTV, not off-axis issues. Only plasma is immune.

Mits is trying to reinvent the (color) wheel.

There are two issues here, screen surface type (glossy or matt) and screen tint or the lack of it. In a totally dark environment there is no ambient light to interact with the screen surface or tint so there are not really any issues, but in a room with ambient light the screen becomes a significant factor.
In a non dark environment tint is required in all display types, in an LCD to hide the pixel grid, in CRT and Plasma to hide the grey phosphor layer and in RPTV’s to hide the reflections from the lenticular-Fresnel. Without tint all these displays will not look black in a lit environment even when switched off.

In a lit environment a glossy screen will always look blacker then a mat or anti reflective screen of the same type, be it LCD, CRT, Plasma or RPTV, that’s simply because the mat screen surface refracts light which prevents reflections but imparts a haze over the image. A gloss screen obviously acts like a mirror and reflects the environment very effectively but there is no refraction or haze and the image looks clean and clear.
What we are left with is a compromise; the user has to decide which is the lesser of the two evils for them, reflection or refraction. In a situation where screen reflections can be minimised I much prefer a glossy screens, they provide a depth of image that I have never seen emulated on a matt screen, I have found this to be the case on LCD, Plasma and RPTV’s.
The situation is much the same with printed photographs, most people prefer high gloss prints to flat or satin finish, they just look more impressive.

Obviously if screen reflections are a problem you may prefer a matt screen finish.


I will tell you this.. Before I bought my 61 inch A750 Samsung, I owned a 53 inch Hitachi Ultravision.. It was an awesome TV, but the way my living room is built, the only option for watching TV was opposite the windows directly behind my couch.. Watching TV in the morning was unbearable due to the fact that the Hitachi had a glossy screen. Now that I have the Samsung, I can watch TV all day w/o the annoyance.. Heck I can even turn on a end table lamp next to the couch and not be annoyed. I WILL say that I do agree that the matte finish of the Samsung looks brownish when it is turned off, where the Hitachi looked black.. but seriously, when I am watching TV - the areas that are black - look black because my eyes are adjusted to the bright picture that is being put out by the TV. At night, I can see no difference in the pictures as far as blacks go... Oh except that my old Hitachi had a bit of a halo issue..

Very good explanation Owen. A lot of people prefer glossy screens as well just as many prefer glossy photographs over matte. Even with my 60XBR1 in my family room I get ambient light in with the blinds closed and even though it has a matte screen the picture can still look washed out when light hits the surface. If someone doesn't have an LCD with overpowering colors you have to control the light anyway in many circumstances.

At least you can put pictures inside a picture frame with a peice of glass covering it >grin<..

Still photos wont show it, but shadow noise has always been a problem for Plasma.

I have seen the shadow people.. They are really small... And if you stand next to a 43 inch high def TV - Plasma, or DLP - you can see it.. If you are at least 3 to 5 inches away... WHO WATCHES TV THIS CLOSE UP?!?! Velodyne, a subwoofer manufacture has $1,000 plus subwoofers that use a servo technogy that if you stick your ear right next to the subwoofer, you can hear a buzz from that technology at work. IT WASN'T DESIGNED TO BE LISTENED TO THAT CLOSE!! HEADPHONES ARE!! All the same.. TV's this size - and I have one - 61 inch A750 Samsung, YES you can see the noise... But I have to be careful not to put a noseprint on my screen!! From 5 to 6 feet, you cannot see it... Seriously.. Believe me.. its true!!!

Considering the price point they're targetting, AVS members might be the only people to buy one. :p

Does anyone know if these TV's are going to be 3 chip DLP TV's or one chip?? I am curious.. Or did they figure out some really cool logarithm to time the lasers with different parts of the dlp chip at a time?? I think this technology is really interesting.. and this is coming from a Samsung fan..

Does anyone know if these TV's are going to be 3 chip DLP TV's or one chip?? ..

One-chip. There are 3-chip DLP devices produced but they are commercial/professional grade units costing tens of thousands, like for movie theatres. Older home DLPs had color wheels. Lasers and LEDs can strobe, giving the various colors.

One-chip. There are 3-chip DLP devices produced but they are commercial/professional grade units costing tens of thousands, like for movie theatres. Older home DLPs had color wheels. Lasers and LEDs can strobe, giving the various colors.

I wonder if with a laser they will be able to partition the DLP chip for use of the different lasers at a time in sections.. That would give great contrast that will rival anything out there.. Scan one color across a section and another color across another section only powering the laser for the portions of the chip that require light, it could be done very quickly.. Which leads me to another thought. If in fact this is the way that they do it, are there going to be highspeed moving parts inside of this TV that will be prone to breaking? A laser is a pinpoint of light, to spread it you have to have some component that directs it across the chip.. Interesting to think about yes?? I can't wait to see what the mechanism/system is that they are going to use.. It has great possibilities both good and bad.. Maybe this is why they haven't released it just yet..

Does anyone know if these TV's are going to be 3 chip DLP TV's or one chip?? I am curious.. Or did they figure out some really cool logarithm to time the lasers with different parts of the dlp chip at a time?? I think this technology is really interesting.. and this is coming from a Samsung fan..
Three chip, laser lit DLP would look spectacular, but I doubt we'll ever see such a thing in an RPTV. Even in front projection it would probably be too expensive for us normal folk if they made one.

3 chip LCOS with lasers will happen one day, but I doubt there'll still be anyone making LCOS RPTVs when that happens.


I wonder if with a laser they will be able to partition the DLP chip for use of the different lasers at a time in sections.. That would give great contrast that will rival anything out there.. Scan one color across a section and another color across another section only powering the laser for the portions of the chip that require light, it could be done very quickly.. Which leads me to another thought. If in fact this is the way that they do it, are there going to be highspeed moving parts inside of this TV that will be prone to breaking? A laser is a pinpoint of light, to spread it you have to have some component that directs it across the chip.. Interesting to think about yes?? I can't wait to see what the mechanism/system is that they are going to use.. It has great possibilities both good and bad.. Maybe this is why they haven't released it just yet..
I'm 95% sure Mitsubishi is using lasers to light the entire panel like bulb based projectors do, and not scanning.

I like the idea of scanning on a theoretical level, you can put the three colours beams very close together to minimise rainbow effect and can adjust beam intensity on a per-pixel level to get near infinate ANSI contrast. The bit that makes it hard is that your sole means of making an image is the persistance of vision in your eye, as there is no phosphor decay like there is as with CRTs. That means you're strobing extremely bright lasers, totally uncharted waters for a commerical product.

A more interesting idea is using scanning lasers to excite phosphors rather than bouncing them off reflective chips. Using very high brightness, replacable phosphor sheets you could make something akin to a CRT projector, but with all the advantages of modern digital projectors.

Three chip, laser lit DLP would look spectacular, but I doubt we'll ever see such a thing in an RPTV. Even in front projection it would probably be too expensive for us normal folk if they made one.

3 chip LCOS with lasers will happen one day, but I doubt there'll still be anyone making LCOS RPTVs when that happens.



I'm 95% sure Mitsubishi is using lasers to light the entire panel like bulb based projectors do, and not scanning.

I like the idea of scanning on a theoretical level, you can put the three colours beams very close together to minimise rainbow effect and can adjust beam intensity on a per-pixel level to get near infinate ANSI contrast. The bit that makes it hard is that your sole means of making an image is the persistance of vision in your eye, as there is no phosphor decay like there is as with CRTs. That means you're strobing extremely bright lasers, totally uncharted waters for a commerical product.

A more interesting idea is using scanning lasers to excite phosphors rather than bouncing them off reflective chips. Using very high brightness, replacable phosphor sheets you could make something akin to a CRT projector, but with all the advantages of modern digital projectors.

So they are going to spread the beam out to cover the entire dlp chip then the entire screen? Wouldn't that require a very powerful laser ?

So they are going to spread the beam out to cover the entire dlp chip then the entire screen? Wouldn't that require a very powerful laser ?
Either way the light output would be the same, it's just an optical matter of how wide the beam would be.

The lasers will be a fair bit more powerful than a laser pointer, but nothing at all compared to some of the heavy duty lasers that are already in use in some professional fields.

...3 chip LCOS with lasers will happen one day, but I doubt there'll still be anyone making LCOS RPTVs when that happens....

As much as I like my LCoS TV, I'm well aware of the fragility of the chip, particularly to heat. So I'm sceptical of the ability of these chips to operate in a very intense light environment. The mirrors of the DLP chip keep the light energy on the surface of the chip (unlike LCD and LCoS chips which allow it to pass through) and therefore allow the chip to run cooler.

The technology which I've been wondering about is Panasonic's LIFI lighting (using microwaves) combined with LCoS. Since JVC and Panasonic are both part of the same corporate empire, it seemed possible. But since the Panny sets have gone nowhere, I doubt there's much future in that.

soooo do I get this or a 9g Kuro?

[re-posted from previously posting to wrong forum]

Wanted to know if anyone has any updates on LaserVue (and/or any other companies working on laser based 1080p TV's)? Pricing, Availability, Feedback from a Demonstration you saw at CES 2008, etc.

Of all the technologies, this one shows the best promise [at least until OLED can fix the lifespan issue to be competative].

Another thing I'm interested in for this technology is, it was originally said to be a flat panel competitor and will be priced to compete with flat panel technologies Plasma & LCD, but the information I've seen so far indicates its DLP and can't be wall-mounted like Plasma/LCD easily can [at least not yet?]. So, it would seem (just based on hype/specs) I've seen so far, not being able to mount it on the wall is the biggest drawback to laser based design/technology. This REALLY bummed me out when I heard laser was DLP based [120hz also makes the picture look fake, very unrealistic, bothersome to watch too].

I believe laser can be refined to be a wall mountable technology eventually, I just haven't seen any that having anything like that on the near horizon yet. Please post here if you know more about the laser technology [advantages/disadvantages with some real-world review test results to support what you're saying, not just marketing hype information, which we'll all disprove when we see them start showing up in stores].

So many good questions, nothing but silence from Mitsubishi.

[re-posted from previously posting to wrong forum]

Wanted to know if anyone has any updates on LaserVue (and/or any other companies working on laser based 1080p TV's)? Pricing, Availability, Feedback from a Demonstration you saw at CES 2008, etc.

Of all the technologies, this one shows the best promise [at least until OLED can fix the lifespan issue to be competative].

Another thing I'm interested in for this technology is, it was originally said to be a flat panel competitor and will be priced to compete with flat panel technologies Plasma & LCD, but the information I've seen so far indicates its DLP and can't be wall-mounted like Plasma/LCD easily can [at least not yet?]. So, it would seem (just based on hype/specs) I've seen so far, not being able to mount it on the wall is the biggest drawback to laser based design/technology. This REALLY bummed me out when I heard laser was DLP based [120hz also makes the picture look fake, very unrealistic, bothersome to watch too].

I believe laser can be refined to be a wall mountable technology eventually, I just haven't seen any that having anything like that on the near horizon yet. Please post here if you know more about the laser technology [advantages/disadvantages with some real-world review test results to support what you're saying, not just marketing hype information, which we'll all disprove when we see them start showing up in stores].

the laster tv is wall mountable.
also 120hz doesnt make the picture look fake.

soooo do I get this or a 9g Kuro?

my decision, too. apparently, this coming week, Mits has scheduled some sort of press conference. I am especially waiting to hear about the price. if it is more than 9g kuro, I am going 9g kuro. one reason is lifespan---if they were to price it this high, it is almost certain that their market would be rather limited. more than likely, Laser RPTV will not last long in this case. within 2-4 years, LCD-LED and plasma will likely have infinite blacks, high-end gamma curves, and generally a superior picture at half the price, because of much higher volume sales. This is just an opinion. Laser is likely RPTV's last hooray---if Mits botches it, it's practically dead.

/iaw

also 120hz doesnt make the picture look fake.

Depends on who you ask. Most of the "experts" in the HT magazines I subscribe to, all say to turn 120 off, as it does make the picture seem non-film like.

Depends on who you ask. Most of the "experts" in the HT magazines I subscribe to, all say to turn 120 off, as it does make the picture seem non-film like.

If it's true 120 you can't turn it off, as in the Sammie DLP LED sets.

What you are referring to, I think, is the interpolative processing on inferior technologies such as LCDs, that have slow refresh rates and need interpolated frames to try to fill in the jerky motion.

DLPs have much higher refresh rates. the reason for the 120 Hz is that it is the lowest common multiple or 24 fps, 30 fps, and 60 fps. therefore, any of those refresh rates can be reproduced without any artificial processing, such as 3:2 pulldown. frame rates are just reproduced as multiples per frame of the original source, and appear as intended to appear.

I would bet that the 120 Hz that your "experts" want turned off is one of the interpolative schemes used by the technologies that don't have high refresh rates, and must resort to artificial means to synch the source with the display.

Someone who can explain this better, please feel free... :)

You might be right moonhawk.

I don't have a 120Hz display, just remember reading that the reviewers preferred it off, but as you say, that could have been with LCD.

You might be right moonhawk.

I don't have a 120Hz display, just remember reading that the reviewers preferred it off, but as you say, that could have been with LCD.

and 240 hz dlp sets will be out in a year or so. samsung already showed a prototype led dlp 240hz 500,000 to 1 contrast ratio at ces. mits will use REALD processing in the laservuew (its what cinema 3d projectors use) its for 24P support and 3d support. theatres use 144hz so 240hz would be great, but i bet the 1st gen laser sets wil be 120. (in 3d that means 60hz per eye for 120 hz sets. cinema is 72 hz per eye, and 240 would be 120 per eye)

You might be right moonhawk.

I don't have a 120Hz display, just remember reading that the reviewers preferred it off, but as you say, that could have been with LCD.

I recommend checking out a good DLP set or projector or theater.

I have lived with a 56" Samsung RPTV for 4 or 5 years and love the image it produces at a constant 120hz.

Film is normally 24 frames per second displayed with a double shutter for an effective 48Hz. If it where not for the blanking required to move each frame into position for projection which results in flicker 24Hz would be fine, that’s all the camera captured.
LCoS displays don’t flicker, they can display a frame continuously until it comes time to update the screen data so no need for 120Hz, 24, 30 and 60 would be fine (25/50 for PAL).
LCD is similar, although due to the relatively slow response times of LCD manufactures appear to be using blacking between frames to help with motion smear, but then need to use faster refresh to avoid flicker, 120Hz is a convenient figure which suits 24/30/60 fps but is no good for 25/50Hz content where 100Hz is required.

DLP’s mirrors flip hundreds of times per second to control light output which is a different issue entirely.

and 240 hz dlp sets will be out in a year or so. samsung already showed a prototype led dlp 240hz 500,000 to 1 contrast ratio at ces. mits will use REALD processing in the laservuew (its what cinema 3d projectors use) its for 24P support and 3d support. theatres use 144hz so 240hz would be great, but i bet the 1st gen laser sets wil be 120. (in 3d that means 60hz per eye for 120 hz sets. cinema is 72 hz per eye, and 240 would be 120 per eye)

Drat! That means I have to wait another year before I can think about buying a new TV, because I don't want 120hz for 3D when I can wait and get 240hz. I think.

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Announces New Relationship With NVIDIA Corporation and Aspen Media Products
June 23, 2008 (2:35 PM EST)
PRNewswire

IRVINE, Calif., June 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. today announced a new relationship with NVIDIA(R) Corporation and Aspen Media Products, LLC, to provide the first complete 3D solution for the home entertainment market. For the first time ever, high-value 3D content will become available to the consumer at home in one convenient package.

"Mitsubishi, a leader in large screen HDTV, NVIDIA, a major force in the entertainment graphics market and Aspen Media Products, an innovator in media server technology, have each developed unique technologies that take us to the next level in realizing the dream of 3D home entertainment," said David Naranjo, director of product development, Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America. By combining the strengths of these three market leading companies, 3D in the home is now ready to become an exciting reality."

For years, NVIDIA's successful GeForce FX Go series of graphics processing units (GPUs) have delivered breakthrough 3D imagery primarily for the PC Gamer. Its GeForce 3D stereoscopic technology is a driver for Windows Vista(R), which renders two views for stereoscopic display systems to show depth with Microsoft(R) DirectX(R) games. The 3D stereoscopic driver is compatible with all GeForce 7 series and higher GPUs, which in turn are compatible with Mitsubishi's 3D-ready Home Theater TVs.

"NVIDIA is extremely excited about its new relationship with Mitsubishi and Aspen Media Products, and is fully committed to bringing 3D technology to the home entertainment market," said Ujesh Desai, general manager, NVIDIA Corporation. "This is an unparalleled industry first, and we are proud to play a key role in providing a complete 3D home entertainment solution to the consumer."

Aspen Media Products focus is on the integration of best-of-breed products and services that enhance the user experience, and the delivery of best-in-class technology to marry entertainment with simplicity.

"The Aspen Media Server has delivered on-demand music, movies and other entertainment programming to the home since its introduction. Now with the increased production of 3D content such as movies, live events, concerts and sports, the Aspen Media server provides an ideal platform to deliver the latest in 3D entertainment technology to the consumer," said John Oliver, chief executive officer, Aspen Media Products. "We are excited to work with two great industry leaders, Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America and NVIDIA, to bring this amazing new solution to consumers."

Mitsubishi's entire product line of Home Theater TVs feature 3D-ready technology. The company continues to lead the competition with the largest Home Theater HDTV available at 73". This year's product line includes three new 73" models along with 60" and 65" sizes -- all featuring thinner frames, increased brightness and 3D-ready capability. Mitsubishi's 1080p Home Theater TVs provide unparalleled picture quality that far exceeds competitive displays, and deliver an optimal experience to enjoy the new generation of 3D home entertainment.

http://www.techweb.com/showPressRelease.jhtml?articleID=X704201

im guessing to go along with the mits 3d blu ray player and possibly laservue (i guess mits wants t take it even a step further not just letting it stop with mits already using ReaLD 3d hardware in the laservue for 3d movies)

either way its a big push for nvidia to work harder at updating its 3d stereo drivers on the video cards for once. I might upgrade and build a pc in a couple of years then for gaming and for use as an HTPC

Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America Announces New Relationship With NVIDIA Corporation and Aspen Media Products
June 23, 2008 (2:35 PM EST)
PRNewswire

IRVINE, Calif., June 23 /PRNewswire/ -- Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. today announced a new relationship with NVIDIA(R) Corporation and Aspen Media Products, LLC, to provide the first complete 3D solution for the home entertainment market. For the first time ever, high-value 3D content will become available to the consumer at home in one convenient package.



was this the big press conference scheduled for this week? or is there another one coming about laservue? I still want to learn about the 65" pricing.

soooo do I get this or a 9g Kuro?

if a 65" is priced ~ 60" 9G Kuro, I think laser'll be a very tough sell. Slimness, viewing angle, known performance vs first generation tech, unproven reliability, and promising but undetermined PQ?

I hope Mits will really wow us with their PQ, or undercut plasma pricing. Otherwise, rptv is toast, or toasty.

the laster tv is wall mountable.
also 120hz doesnt make the picture look fake.

My daughter and I totally do not agree with that. The new 120Hz are just creepy to watch, the picture (mostly attributed to fast paced movement) is so artificial looking it just totally creeped us out to look at it. They were Demo'ing Blu-Ray 'The Island" on it in the local BB Magnolia speaker demo room. It was at that moment I decided 120Hz definately was utter crap. It was supposed to help resolve the motion issue, but all it did was affect the video quality to look very unrealistic and about as far from film as you could possibly imagine. When there wasn't any real motion to it the picture was very clear/clean, but still had some of the creepy artificial quality to it I was talking about too. I watched two 120Hz and 4 60Hz and the 60Hz actually looked better from a video quality standpoint albeit still having the motion issue with the technology it so despirately is trying to resolve so it can move forward towards its attempt at dominating the market [i.e. aside from black-level, its the other holy-grail they want to overcome].

I still think OLED when perfected to a 60K or more half-life will be the replacement of choice.

My daughter and I totally do not agree with that. The new 120Hz are just creepy to watch, the picture (mostly attributed to fast paced movement) is so artificial looking it just totally creeped us out to look at it. They were Demo'ing Blu-Ray 'The Island" on it in the local BB Magnolia speaker demo room. It was at that moment I decided 120Hz definately was utter crap. It was supposed to help resolve the motion issue, but all it did was affect the video quality to look very unrealistic and about as far from film as you could possibly imagine. When there wasn't any real motion to it the picture was very clear/clean, but still had some of the creepy artificial quality to it I was talking about too. I watched two 120Hz and 4 60Hz and the 60Hz actually looked better from a video quality standpoint albeit still having the motion issue with the technology it so despirately is trying to resolve so it can move forward towards its attempt at dominating the market [i.e. aside from black-level, its the other holy-grail they want to overcome].

I still think OLED when perfected to a 60K or more half-life will be the replacement of choice.

Why didn't you tell us what type of TV you were viewing? :rolleyes:

Did you see my and others previous posts?

Real 120 Hz vs artificially interpolated 120 Hz are two completely different things.

Which was it? :confused:

Why didn't you tell us what type of TV you were viewing? :rolleyes:

Did you see my and others previous posts?

Real 120 Hz vs artificially interpolated 120 Hz are two completely different things.

Which was it? :confused:


LOL, someone's jumping ahead without reading the thoughts of others. :cool:

soooo do I get this or a 9g Kuro?

If you can wait maybe it'd be worth it. You might want to add the LG PG7000 to your list as it's possible that it may reach infinite black levels this year and MAY come out by the end of July. I just sold my 8G Kuro and was hoping for more info on Laservue and the LG PG7000 but I think I'm going to get a 9G Kuro. I'm still interested in what both of these sets have to offer and I just hope I don't regret my choice to buy now:confused:.

Good luck!

For what it's worth, I finally got a chance to do some TV shopping today, and was looking at mainly Samsung LED model DLPs, and the Mits line of bulb DLP sets.

I thought the Mits sets had a slight edge in brightness over the LEDs, but not enough to offset the advantages of not having a bulb to deal with.

I asked a sales guy whom I've talked with several times over the years, at Ultimate Electronics in Albuquerque, about the Laservues. He had no new info to offer, but did say that he had heard from Mits, way back when, that these were going to be premium priced sets.

The ballpark he mentioned was 6-8K for the 65, and as high as 5 figures or more for the 73 inch.

I'll take that with a grain of salt, but if I don't hear otherwise, and soon, I may bite the bullet on a 67 inch Sammy LED real quick.

Let's hope we hear something from Mits real soon, so all of us on the fence have more info for making an informed decision.

Later... :)

New pics and info:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/25/mitsubishis-laservue-65-inch-and-75-inchers-due-this-fall/

New pics and info:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/25/mitsubishis-laservue-65-inch-and-75-inchers-due-this-fall/

We got a first glimpse of Mitsubishi's brand new rear-projection-ish laser-based TV tech, LaserVue, back at CES, but now the sets are just about primed for action, and should be hitting store shelves, as previously noted, Q3 2008. LaserVue will debut in 65-inch and 73-inch, with the 65-inch version hitting the scene first. Mitsubishi is still pretty coy about what exactly makes the technology tick -- other than the "zomg, lasers" aspect -- but is quick to point out the 200 percent color gamut that LaserVue provides, more than twice that of most traditional HDTVs. The sets also run at 120Hz, and boast 500 nits of brightness. Head to head against LCD and plasma sets we had trouble finding the differences, other than the color depth (particularly in the reds, almost too much so, though we're sure you can tweak that). Have no fear: the blacks are black, the brights are bright, and the viewing angle puts DLP to shame. That said, we're hearing price points are going to be more comparable to plasma and LCD than DLP, so Mitsubishi might have its work cut out for it in convincing consumers that these new "chubby," 10-inch thick TVs are the way to go. We're not entirely convinced ourselves, though one aspect can't be disputed: LaserVue draws under 200 watts, about half that of LCD and a third of plasma.

*****

for those who don't wanna go to the link :)

im going to wait on offcial pricing and then ces in january. If 240hz sets are announced then I will hold out, if not and if the price isnt insane then i might bite
mits really should just get down to it and mention price.

4-5k would be fine to me 4 for 65 and 5 for 73, but im sure it will be 5-8k+ range maybe more for the 73 if they truly are going with lcd plasma price ranges.

^Thanx xtremxterra for that.
I have a suspicion that the 73" won't make it out until Q4.:(
As Tom Petty says: the waiting is the hardest part.:p

mits really should just get down to it and mention price.

4-5k would be fine to me 4 for 65 and 5 for 73, but im sure it will be 5-8k+ range maybe more for the 73 if they truly are going with lcd plasma price ranges.
If the price is outlandish, I'll go with their 73" bulb (835) instead.

Glossy enclosure - yuck! Too many reflections.

Wow nice thin bezel means all picture. Can't wait to see the first reports on these by CNET etc.

Don't under-rate the impact of low power consumption. This is an issue that can only grow in importance. It's not just a matter of monthly bills. The guy who proudly drives around in a Prius when he can afford a Lexus will also take great pleasure in quietly boasting to friends and relatives about how environmentally responsible his giant new TV is.

Personally I like the idea of not having two electrical devices (a TV and an air conditioner) fighting each other just cause I want to watch the PGA on a summer afternoon.

I suspect Mitsubishi may be onto something here. Unless the sets develop problems that is, which is always a possibility.

Q3 starts next Tuesday...

The question is, will the 65" be here before or after the start of football season?

OK, I give up, what are the blue lights on the left and right side of the stand?

4-5k would be fine to me 4 for 65 and 5 for 73, but im sure it will be 5-8k+ range maybe more for the 73 if they truly are going with lcd plasma price ranges.

Like I said above, I heard it could go five figures for the 73. :eek:

Hopefully not!. :cool:

Mits really doesn't want to set pricing do they? Oh well, I broke down and bought a 6020 last night. These Laservues are really going to have to outperform the competition to sell over a flat panel. For a 60" vs. a 65"er I think they may have a tough time unless it is all that. If not, I'd bet they sell more 73" TVs. Just my opinion anyways. Still months off though.

Mits really doesn't want to set pricing do they? Oh well, I broke down and bought a 6020 last night. These Laservues are really going to have to outperform the competition to sell over a flat panel. For a 60" vs. a 65"er I think they may have a tough time unless it is all that. If not, I'd bet they sell more 73" TVs. Just my opinion anyways. Still months off though.

from what I've read so far, it sounds like these sets won't be quite so revolutionary. I suspect the reason we haven't heard about pricing is there's an internal debate going on within Mits over how to set the price points. Do they price it high enough to help recoup R&D and try to convince people these 10" deep sets are better than flat panels, or do they compete on both price and performance -- the new and cheaper hotness?

OK, I give up, what are the blue lights on the left and right side of the stand?
they had that on their diamond models last year, but i dont think it was those demon eyes.
its just blue lights that look pretty cool. you can turn them off.

from what I've read so far, it sounds like these sets won't be quite so revolutionary. I suspect the reason we haven't heard about pricing is there's an internal debate going on within Mits over how to set the price points. Do they price it high enough to help recoup R&D and try to convince people these 10" deep sets are better than flat panels, or do they compete on both price and performance -- the new and cheaper hotness?

While I'm sure pricing is being debated, pricing these sets at the Kuro level, absent a substancial picture advantage, will be certain death in the marketplace. RPTV's are losing market share as flat panels drop in price. Other than Mits and Samsung, who is even still making them? If Mits thinks the 73" will sell at 10k, well I wish them lots of luck.

At this point we know that they will use less energy and have a larger image that is usually seen in a flat panel. Yes, I know there are some large LCD's and plasmas. If they equal the 9G Kuro in quality, then it becomes a trade off. The smaller footprint of the Kuro verses the larger screen and more energy friendly Laservue. My spin is at equal cost, the flat panel wins simply because it is viewed as the future and has more "cool" factor. To the general public, the flat panel is what they dream about, not another large box.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough people like us that will look past the form factor and pay Kuro prices for, yet another, large box. Of course if they price it below Kuro levels, I can train my mind to pretend it's skinny like a flat panel. The flat panel stampede is hard for me to understand anyway. Since very few of them actually end up hung on the wall, whats the big deal if the set is 4" or 12" deep?

I've got my fingers crossed the Laservue is equal to, or at least very close to, the 9G Kuro in quality at a lower price. Then its larger size and energy advantage might overcome the form factor. It would with me.

I'm hoping for sub-$4k street price on the 65". Even then, it better look spectacular in person.

Otherwise I'm going with the 67" Samsung LED DLP at just over $2k...

(they also need to be available before September...)

...Otherwise I'm going with the 67" Samsung LED DLP ...(they also need to be available before September...)

According to the relevant threads, people are buying them right now. Generally they seem pleased.

According to the relevant threads, people are buying them right now. Generally they seem pleased.
I meant that the Mitsubishi would have to be available by September for me to buy it.

I'm buying a new TV before football season starts. The Samsung is the one right now, but the Mitsubishi LaserVue 65" could replace it as the one if the price/performance is right and it comes out early enough.

The flat panel stampede is hard for me to understand anyway. Since very few of them actually end up hung on the wall, whats the big deal if the set is 4" or 12" deep?

I've never understood this either. Many people (especially women) want a flat panel. But if you don't hang it on the wall what does it matter if it's flat or not? :confused:

As barth2k mentioned Mits is probably determining the pricing. My guess is that they are trying to determine what is the highest price they can get buy on selling these TVs. I also wouldn't be surprised if the sets didn't get released later than sooner as this happens quite often in this business.

Unfortunately, I don't think there are enough people like us that will look past the form factor and pay Kuro prices for, yet another, large box. Of course if they price it below Kuro levels, I can train my mind to pretend it's skinny like a flat panel. The flat panel stampede is hard for me to understand anyway. Since very few of them actually end up hung on the wall, whats the big deal if the set is 4" or 12" deep?

I've got my fingers crossed the Laservue is equal to, or at least very close to, the 9G Kuro in quality at a lower price. Then its larger size and energy advantage might overcome the form factor. It would with me.

I don't care about the inches either, since I won't be wall mounting. I think it WILL make a difference in resale value, or if I just want to give it to a friend or relative later.

what concerns me is reliability. what's more likely to break, a kuro or laservue? has to be the laservue. then, there goes the energy saving!

If this set doesn't hit market @ a decent price it's gonna fall flat on it's face. Do the right thing Mitsubishi

$2499 msrp 65"
$3299 msrp 73"

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/06/25/mitsubishis-laservue-65-inch-and-75-inchers-due-this-fall/

tEh sExY..... :D

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadgethd.com/media/2008/06/laservue-1-000.jpg

Q3 starts next Tuesday...

The question is, will the 65" be here before or after the start of football season?

My question is, what is the damn price!

I'm hoping for sub-$4k street price on the 65". Even then, it better look spectacular in person.

Otherwise I'm going with the 67" Samsung LED DLP at just over $2k...


My thoughts exactly

If this set doesn't hit market @ a decent price it's gonna fall flat on it's face. Do the right thing Mitsubishi

$2499 msrp 65"
$3299 msrp 73"

Haha, you should probably come down off your cloud because you're dreaming. As much as I would LOVE to see these price points, there's no way a 1st gen new technology TV that size is gonna be sub $3k.

barth2k,

You've got a point on reliability. The length of the warranty Mits provides will speak for itself. A 90 day warranty would give me pause unless Mits offered an extended warranty, like five years, at a reasonable number.

Haha, you should probably come down off your cloud because you're dreaming. As much as I would LOVE to see these price points, there's no way a 1st gen new technology TV that size is gonna be sub $3k.

We'll Mitsubishi is gonna have problems especially since people can get a 67" SAMSUNG LED for $2,500...

New Tech or not.

If this set doesn't hit market @ a decent price it's gonna fall flat on it's face. Do the right thing Mitsubishi

$2499 msrp 65"
$3299 msrp 73"

Hah!

That's considerably less than the price on their top of the line bulb based DLPs.

It's nice to see the lower power consumption--A poster on the Sammt LED thread measured his set at under 200W if I recall correctly.

I wonder if the laservues also have near instant turn-on, less heat, and lower noise levels like the Sammies. That's a big reason I'm looking at these two types.

Right now, the only advantage of the Mits is size, if you want 72 or 73 inches. The rest remains to be seen.

Oh, well...my 56 inch HLN Sammy is still going strong--guess I can wait a little longer...

We'll Mitsubishi is gonna have problems especially since people can get a 67" SAMSUNG LED for $2,500...

New Tech or not.

Trust me, I know, I've been eyeing the new Samsung LED's for months now, but have been holding off to see what price point these Mits Laservue's drop at. I think it's all going to come down to how good they look. If they blow LCD and Plasma out of the water with color spectrum and black levels then they'll probably price these just slightly cheaper than LCDs and Plasmas. If, however, they only look slightly better than DLPs, they'll price them just slightly higher than Samsung's new models.

It's a really tricky situation that Mits is in right now, being the sole developer of this technology. Is it going to be good enough to sway people away from flat screens or cheap enough to sway people away from standard DLPs? That right there is the million dollar question that we're all waiting for them to answer.

We'll Mitsubishi is gonna have problems especially since people can get a 67" SAMSUNG LED for $2,500...

New Tech or not.

Some have reported using coupons and price matching--or just Big River--to get these for as little as 2 grand. I had less luck yesterday, or I may have jumped.

Another question is geometry--How are they going to get even projection on a 65-73 inch screen out of a 10 inch cabinet depth?

Also, will it have a matte non-reflective screen--which I need in my rather bright viewing area--or a reflective screen, which some say gives better PQ and better viewing angles, especially if the ambient light can be controlled?

I hardly doubt the 65 & 75" Laservue Mits will be on par w/ DLP prices. These babies are going to be priced @ a PREMIUM, unfortunately it might be past my range. :(

I am a mits dealer and from when the rep talked with me a few weeks ago he said pricing will be simliar to the same size in lcd/plasma. I would not count on them being the same price as DLP's. Keep in mind a 65" lcd/plasma is around 7-10 grand. So if the 65 laser is around 4-5 grand thats not too bad. It can be mounted and off the wall is maybe an inch or 2 more than when you mount a flat panel. Plus its supposed to look fantastic. I should be getting a 65 in my showroom late August early September. As I get more info I will post it.

I am a mits dealer and from when the rep talked with me a few weeks ago he said pricing will be simliar to the same size in lcd/plasma. I would not count on them being the same price as DLP's. Keep in mind a 65" lcd/plasma is around 7-10 grand. So if the 65 laser is around 4-5 grand thats not too bad. It can be mounted and off the wall is maybe an inch or 2 more than when you mount a flat panel. Plus its supposed to look fantastic. I should be getting a 65 in my showroom late August early September. As I get more info I will post it.

If that's true then you can officially declare this a dead product. Thin is in right now so nobody is going to be buying these TVs when they can get a similarly priced flush-with-the-wall-mountable TV. Any TV above $5k people expect to be able to hang it on the wall. And anybody who is shopping for TVs in that range isn't exactly poor and they're looking to buy a TV they can show off to their friends so they're definitely going to pick the thin one.

And on the other side of the spectrum, nobody in their right mind who doesn't mind having a thicker TV is going to pay 2-3X the amount of similarly sized DLPs. There's no way the PQ is going to be that much better to justify spending that much more money.

Sorry Mitsubishi but you're about to lose millions of dollars on this product if you price it that high.

And anybody who is shopping for TVs in that range isn't exactly poor and they're looking to buy a TV they can show off to their friends so they're definitely going to pick the thin one.

Not necessarily - I, for one, am more interested in picture size than the depth of the set. I'm wanting to emulate a movie theater image size using RP. A 73 inch image is the sweet spot for my viewing area. Placing a set on a console is not a big deal, in my case.

I am a mits dealer and from when the rep talked with me a few weeks ago he said pricing will be simliar to the same size in lcd/plasma. I would not count on them being the same price as DLP's. Keep in mind a 65" lcd/plasma is around 7-10 grand. So if the 65 laser is around 4-5 grand thats not too bad. It can be mounted and off the wall is maybe an inch or 2 more than when you mount a flat panel. Plus its supposed to look fantastic. I should be getting a 65 in my showroom late August early September. As I get more info I will post it.

Thanx for your info.
I am a little mystified why anyone would pay 7-10k for ANY set.
You can pick up a very good FP at that price and project 120" if you like.

Oh well, maybe its just me...;)

If that's true then you can officially declare this a dead product. Thin is in right now so nobody is going to be buying these TVs when they can get a similarly priced flush-with-the-wall-mountable TV. Any TV above $5k people expect to be able to hang it on the wall. And anybody who is shopping for TVs in that range isn't exactly poor and they're looking to buy a TV they can show off to their friends so they're definitely going to pick the thin one.

And on the other side of the spectrum, nobody in their right mind who doesn't mind having a thicker TV is going to pay 2-3X the amount of similarly sized DLPs. There's no way the PQ is going to be that much better to justify spending that much more money.

Sorry Mitsubishi but you're about to lose millions of dollars on this product if you price it that high.

I try my best to be quiet on this forum but sometimes the comments/remarks are so far fetched, I lose it. It's pure folly to expect a firm to canibalize it's existing product lines with new technology. Indeed, Mits, is currently introducing new DLP sets as I write. Furthermore it should be clear to anyone who has the slightest understanding of this new technology, that these new sets will significantly trump current offerings in terms of performance, energy use,size and reliability. The closest analogous products will be the LED based DLP sets, but these do not have the pure dscrete spectra and hence will not afforrd the same large gamut

Thanx for your info.
I am a little mystified why anyone would pay 7-10k for ANY set.
You can pick up a very good FP at that price and project 120" if you like.

Oh well, maybe its just me...;)
Front projection is unworkable for the vast majority of people and is a LOT more work to setup. If the picture quality is at or close to Kuro levels, I would be willing to pay at least close to those numbers for the 73" version and don't care how deep the set is. I currently have a Mits 65" RPTV (WS-65909 - Diamond series from about 6 years ago), so ANY current set is going to be a lot less imposing than what I have now. How many 70" or larger flat panels are on the market now and how many of those are even close to $10k? If Pioneer had a 70" or even a 65" Kuro, I'd be all over it, but they don't and I refuse to go smaller than 65".

I try my best to be quiet on this forum but sometimes the comments/remarks are so far fetched, I lose it. It's pure folly to expect a firm to canibalize it's existing product lines with new technology. Indeed, Mits, is currently introducing new DLP sets as I write. Furthermore it should be clear to anyone who has the slightest understanding of this new technology, that these new sets will significantly trump current offerings in terms of performance, energy use,size and reliability. The closest analogous products will be the LED based DLP sets, but these do not have the pure dscrete spectra and hence will not afforrd the same large gamut

The same large gamut that no one is producing any product for (ie no source material with that wide of a gamut - even for an LED based DLP). I wonder if the third quarter is going to see something really interesting released in bluray world that will take advantage of all these "new" colors that the LED and laser based TV's have..

I try my best to be quiet on this forum but sometimes the comments/remarks are so far fetched, I lose it. It's pure folly to expect a firm to canibalize it's existing product lines with new technology. Indeed, Mits, is currently introducing new DLP sets as I write. Furthermore it should be clear to anyone who has the slightest understanding of this new technology, that these new sets will significantly trump current offerings in terms of performance, energy use,size and reliability. The closest analogous products will be the LED based DLP sets, but these do not have the pure dscrete spectra and hence will not afforrd the same large gamut

While I agree on what you write abot MITS canibalizing thier dlp's, I also agree with Youst that they will be dead in the water. They will be to MITS what HD DVD was to Toshiba. Money down the drain. Prices that are akin to lcd/plasma 65 inch sets will push me to either the 67A750, the 65835, or perhaps waiting to see what happens with the Sony XBR8's.

Furthermore it should be clear to anyone who has the slightest understanding of this new technology, that these new sets will significantly trump current offerings in terms of performance, energy use,size and reliability. The closest analogous products will be the LED based DLP sets, but these do not have the pure dscrete spectra and hence will not afforrd the same large gamut[/QUOTE]

While I hope you're right, its far from clear these sets will "trump current offerings". Much less "significantly". Theory is theory, but at this point nobody really knows what the reality is. That said, this is what it will take for Mits to sell these north of $5000.

A 60" Kuro 9G, almost the best there is, beautifully thin, refined, costs somewhere in the mid four thousands. A 65" Mits laser set has a little more screen real estate, less power consumption ($20/year?), lighter weight. Hopefully a picture that is as good as the 9G. Still, I think laser dlp would not find too many takers at the same price as the Kuro 9G. Yes, a few, but not many.

Someone just wrote that Mits would not want to cannibalize its DLP products. They better. First, Mits probably does not sell too many DLPs relative to the size of the market, so there is not much to cannibalize to begin with. Second, what is called "price discrimination" in the industrial organizations economics literature works only if a firm has market power (more simply often called monopoly power.) They could price discriminate (or protect their other products) if they had a segmented market. However, my guess is that the competition that the Mits lasers DLPs face are not just from their own Mits bulb DLP sets, but from the Kuros on the high end and from the Samsung DLP LEDs on the low end. Put differently, the Kuros and Samsungs will be eating the Mits bulb DLP cake anyway if the Mits laser DLPs do not.

Then again, Mits does not seem to act particularly smart, anyway. The fact that they have not revealed a price in late June probably means that a good number of us will decide to go Kuro 9G. I will soon.

/iaw

A 60" Kuro 9G, almost the best there is, beautifully thin, refined, costs somewhere in the mid four thousands. A 65" Mits laser set has a little more screen real estate, less power consumption ($20/year?), lighter weight. Hopefully a picture that is as good as the 9G. Still, I think laser dlp would not find too many takers at the same price as the Kuro 9G. Yes, a few, but not many.

Someone just wrote that Mits would not want to cannibalize its DLP products. They better. First, Mits probably does not sell too many DLPs relative to the size of the market, so there is not much to cannibalize to begin with. Second, what is called "price discrimination" in the industrial organizations economics literature works only if a firm has market power (more simply often called monopoly power.) They could price discriminate (or protect their other products) if they had a segmented market. However, my guess is that the competition that the Mits lasers DLPs face are not just from their own Mits bulb DLP sets, but from the Kuros on the high end and from the Samsung DLP LEDs on the low end. Put differently, the Kuros and Samsungs will be eating the Mits bulb DLP cake anyway if the Mits laser DLPs do not.

Then again, Mits does not seem to act particularly smart, anyway. The fact that they have not revealed a price in late June probably means that a good number of us will decide to go Kuro 9G. I will soon.

/iaw

when does the new kuro come out anyways?

Well gang, I don't work for a CE company, but I do work for one of the largest PC/tech manufacturers in the world and can tell you in watching new product intros, anything that is first generation and possibly positioned as "leading edge" will be priced at a premium for the first 6mths or so of product life as the company gets its feet wet and test the waters.

You can always reduce your price, but once it's out, you cannot increase it so you've got one shot to maximize the revenue and capture share.

Mits is probably in a big dilemma at the moment and I'd hedge my bets that when they first worked on LaserVue, they probably expected the product to be out a year earlier than reality - there are almost always delay with first gen, new tech since most reputable companies don't want a lemon on their hands so they almost "over engineer" the first gen.

They are also caught with a market that has practically evaporated in the last 12mths - in fact, it was only about 6mths ago that Sony announced their exit of the micro display market. The Mits guys probably went "oh @#@# - that's not good"...

Conversely, they've spent a boat load developing the tech and probably were already setting up for manufacturing and tooling of the lines, raw component orders when Sony pulled the plug. Given Sony's position in micro display and the overall TV market, that move is what killed the market prematurely.

And didn't Panasonic just in the last 12mths intro their LIFI sets? See any of those still around?

The only real new tech to keep micro display attractive enough to sell is Samsung with the LED sets that tought 3D and great image quality at a good price. See how quickly their new sets have started to discount? It's because thin is in - and LCD panel prices fueled by new plasma releases is driving price point down. So what do you do if you're building micro display? Well, you've got to sell a bigger screen for less money -but even that is not really enough to keep sales of std DLP RPTV going...

So now Mits is in a true fork in the road - they really can't kill the project so they should soldier on to try and recoup the investment.

Now that you also have a stalled economy -all other sectors have proven this fact - people are much tighter with their money - if it's "good enough" that's what people will buy. Are current HD sets "good enough"? Sure looks that way - Vizio anyone?

My advice to Mits - don't take a gamble selling a bloated box at a huge premium because it's a "laser tv". Price it no more than the Samsung LED sets if you want to sell any - because the longer you wait, the smaller the market and appeal for an RPTV. If the product is as good as everyone says, they could shift the market back in favour of RPTV if the image is better, the screen is bigger and the price per sq in is better. That's "value" and a good trade-off for "thin and sexy".

Guaranteed - Samsung will be next to pull the plug on RPTV - they're probably just grinding out as many as they can to pay for the investment in these.

With shipping costs also going up, this has an impact on the price of these sets too. Many more flat panels fit in the same space as an RPTV.

I see everyone talking about Kuro? So what -the economics of that game - high end - super premium priced TVs is over - Pioneer is getting out of the business. Why? Not due to their TV quality or reputation - they're just not selling enough.

Why? Other sets are "good enough"... Sad but true - yes I know - lots of videophiles here, but I'm just talking about it from a business sense. Same happened with Super Audio/DVD audio vs MP3 - good enough...

Ok - off my soapbox. I am also in the market for 60+ inches having moved into a new house with big windows. My old house had a DLP PJ + 106" screen. Really tough going to anything smaller than 60" now! I'll probably wait for LaserVue -just to see how good it could be...

Cheers -Good luck to Mits!

when does the new kuro come out anyways?

It's already out and something like the 6020 is selling for hundreds lower than the previous poster mentioned;). The same dealer I bought from locally (Entertainment Solutions) told me he head that Sony's LED LCDs (the XBR8s) will likely be price protected and they can't negotiate. This was casual talk and I showed no interest in buying one and was already was purchasing the Pioneer so he had nothing to lose. I'm afraid if the Laservue's aren't going to be in high production at least early on that this may be the case with them as well selling at or near MSRP.

I see everyone talking about Kuro? So what -the economics of that game - high end - super premium priced TVs is over - Pioneer is getting out of the business. Why? Not due to their TV quality or reputation - they're just not selling enough.

I don't know why so many people think this. Pioneer is not quitting the plasma business. They are just not making 100% of the TV in house like they had been starting next year. They are outsourcing part of the panel. If this were truly the case then we wouldn't be seeing the name Sony, Samsung, or Sharp on any TVs as they are already doing the same thing that Pioneer will be doing next year. Why? So they can be more price competetive because they are priced high against the competition. At this point I am feeling Mits may be in the same boat with their pricing as well unless they have more to offer than we realize.

the market has spoken, and for better or worse, THIN trumps all other factors, leave it to Sony to understand that ahead of everyone else

heads will roll at Mitsu over this fiasco

The same large gamut that no one is producing any product for (ie no source material with that wide of a gamut - even for an LED based DLP). I wonder if the third quarter is going to see something really interesting released in bluray world that will take advantage of all these "new" colors that the LED and laser based TV's have..

I think the ability--or lack thereof--to produce true black levels (higher contrast) will be much more important to the success of these sets than color gamut.

So far, none of the recent techs approach true blacks. If Mits can do it with lasers, and retain the refresh rate advantage of DLPs, which is a big deal for sports fans, they may have a winner here, if not too pricey.

They are also caught with a market that has practically evaporated in the last 12mths - in fact, it was only about 6mths ago that Sony announced their exit of the micro display market. The Mits guys probably went "oh @#@# - that's not good"...

I'm gonna have to disagree with this. Our store is selling Mits lamp dlp's faster than I have ever seen ANY TV sell.

People are saying "wow, a 65" TV for $1500!!". Many (not most) people could care less about thin form factor and wall mounting.

I bet this is a boom year for them. Add the laser TV arrival probably at a high end cost just to introduce it. I would expect following generations of laser based DLPs to carrier on strong for several years to come.

Of course, this is all based on a high end performance. If performance is the same weak digital picture as current DLP, LCD and plasma, then they have an uphill battle. Expectations are high, and they best deliver.

One thing in Mits. favor is the dearth of large screen TVs on the market.
Almost all the manufacturers are concentrating on the 40-50" market.
Take a look at a Best Buy Sunday flyer!

There are STILL alot of people out there that want a "big-ass TV."
And until there are 70" and above LCDs and plasmas...

Im betting that the market void in the 60" plus catagory will prove to be a boon for Mits. Add to that the fact that these TVs are wall mountable and only 10" thick only helps their cause. If the picture is top notch and the pricing is realistic, (which should'nt be hard VS current flat screen pricing), then It might turn out to be the Wii of the TV world....well maybe not that big!!! I'm in the market for a 70" plus and Im very tired of waiting. If these things are for real Ill have one as soon as they are out.

the market has spoken, and for better or worse, THIN trumps all other factors, leave it to Sony to understand that ahead of everyone else...

Sorry, but there is no "the market". There are many submarkets. Some people want thin, others couldn't care and value image quality above all else. Sony's departure from RPTVs has opened opportunities for others, which Samsung is already exploiting with the 750s.

Whether laser TVs ultimately succeed depends on how good they are compared to the price.

dgalsofromcanada

I think the ability--or lack thereof--to produce true black levels (higher contrast) will be much more important to the success of these sets than color gamut.

So far, none of the recent techs approach true blacks. If Mits can do it with lasers, and retain the refresh rate advantage of DLPs, which is a big deal for sports fans, they may have a winner here, if not too pricey.

Moonhawk hit the nail on the head. The weakness of fixed pixel displays from day one has been their inability to display a true, CRT level, black. My Samsung 6188 is a very good set, but the black level of the Pioneer Elite 151 leaves it in the shade of gray. The 8G, and now the 9G, Kuro is the first fixed pixel display that has overcome the black level weakness. Now that Pioneer has raised the bar, the Lazervue must equal or exceed the Pioneer's black level if they have any hope of charging similar prices.

Mitsubishi Releases Details On New Laser TVs
The new LaserVue laser TV from Mitsubishi, set to begin shipping in the third quarter of this year, will initially be available in 65- and 73-inch screen sizes, the company said Wednesday.

The 65-inch model will come out first first, followed by the 73-inch later this fall. Both will be approximately 10 inches deep.

But why lasers? According to Mitsubishi, the LaserVue models will offer twice the color at half the power of today's LCD and plasma HDTVs, operating on less than 200 watts. The technology is also being touted as capable of delivering highly detailed 3D viewing due to the wide range of color that laser beams can provide.

I cant wait for this.

Mitsubishi Releases Details On New Laser TVs
The new LaserVue laser TV from Mitsubishi, set to begin shipping in the third quarter of this year, will initially be available in 65- and 73-inch screen sizes, the company said Wednesday.

The 65-inch model will come out first first, followed by the 73-inch later this fall. Both will be approximately 10 inches deep.

But why lasers? According to Mitsubishi, the LaserVue models will offer twice the color at half the power of today's LCD and plasma HDTVs, operating on less than 200 watts. The technology is also being touted as capable of delivering highly detailed 3D viewing due to the wide range of color that laser beams can provide.

Hey Mits, how about giving us the most important release detail. HOW MUCH IS THE BLOODY THING GOING TO COST.

Even a little ball park figure would be enough for me to wait so ....How much is the 73"?????

New pics and info:
http://www.engadget.com/2008/06/25/mitsubishis-laservue-65-inch-and-75-inchers-due-this-fall/
Sounds like it isn't living up to promises.
We were promised DLP cheap because the technology was cheap.
We were promised a clear difference between LCD and PLASMA and it sounds like the only difference is color, and that it can be a bad thing with red levels.

Sounds like it isn't living up to promises.
We were promised DLP cheap because the technology was cheap.
We were promised a clear difference between LCD and PLASMA and it sounds like the only difference is color, and that it can be a bad thing with red levels.
you were promised cheap? apparently you havent been paying much attention to the press releases.
They never mentioned 1 time it was cheap or that the technology was cheap.

They are touting the 3D and colors which are 2 things better than plasma. Apparently the show in april compared it next to a kuro and was favorable.

man...why dont you read this thread before just jousting on like a fool.

man...why dont you read this thread before just jousting on like a fool.
Veeery tactful... :rolleyes:

you were promised cheap? apparently you havent been paying much attention to the press releases.
They never mentioned 1 time it was cheap or that the technology was cheap.

They are touting the 3D and colors which are 2 things better than plasma. Apparently the show in april compared it next to a kuro and was favorable.

man...why dont you read this thread before just jousting on like a fool.

While he may not have been accurate about the cost part, he is right about one thing: right now these TVs don't sound like they're going to live up to the hype. When first introduced these were supposed to blow LCD and plasma out of the water, but now people are saying they can't really tell a difference, if any. Mitsubishi being pretty much silent on details isn't helping their case any either.

I'm still holding out hope that they're going to be all that and a bag of chips like originally promised, but as time goes by and Mits continues withholding details I'm going to become more and more skeptical.

if laservue disappoints, we can switch to salivating over laser front projection! yeah baby!

I think the market for people who want 70" screens, and don't want front projectors, is pretty damn small.

You may be correct, but I don’t understand why. With so many massive homes around a 70” is rather small and many people actually watch TV during the day or at nigh with lights on, front projection looks terrible under such conditions.
After owning a 70” I would prefer to go larger with my next set, probably 80” if possible, however front projection is out of the question for my use and I’m sure I am not alone.
Mitsubishi could own the BIG screen market if they got serious. With the price of 100” and 150” Plasmas being what it is there has to be room for a dramatically cheaper and better performing option for people who want larger then 73”.

Come on Mitsubushi, give us a BIG screen option, it would not cost much more the manufacture.

you were promised cheap? apparently you havent been paying much attention to the press releases.
They never mentioned 1 time it was cheap or that the technology was cheap.

They are touting the 3D and colors which are 2 things better than plasma. Apparently the show in april compared it next to a kuro and was favorable.

man...why dont you read this thread before just jousting on like a fool.
The problem with new display technologies is that when we first see the prototypes or pre production models they are being compared to plasma/lcd available at that time.

By the time they get them into production lcd and plasma screens have moved on in quality and dropped in price so the potential benefits of the new technology are no longer much of a progression, if at all.

The same goes for OLED, by the time they can get a large size screen to market current technologies will have progressed even further and the price differential will be unjustified

if laservue disappoints, we can switch to salivating over laser front projection! yeah baby!

I am with you! I am only in the "small screen" thread to find out what is happening with laser DLP sets and how they do. If they can almost equal a Kuro this means real potential for us front projection bigots.

Mits should be releasing these laservue sets at 73" and 80" as there are already 65" 1080P Plasmas that they will simply not be able to compete with unless they are half the price. Keep in mind Vizio is expected to come out with a 65" 1080p plasma for $2799. But 70"+ plasma is probably a ways off still and is where a 10" thick set that can produce a picture on par with a Kuro could shine.

I think the market for people who want 70" screens, and don't want front projectors, is pretty damn small.
I think the market for people who want 70" (or larger) screens is huge if the price can come down enough. I also suspect that the percentage of those people who would want (or want AND be able to setup) a front projector is actually quite small. The typical TV buyer is not going to want to deal with the extra effort it takes to setup a projector and screen. Even the non-typical TV buyer (the AVS Forum crowd) may not be able to use a front projector for various reasons such as not having enough control over light in the room, not being able to mount a screen or projector (rental property anyone?), problems routing cables, etc.

I definitely want something 65" or larger to upgrade my current Mits. 65" CRT RPTV, but front projection is NOT an option for me regardless of how much I'd love to go with a front projector and 100" screen.

You may be correct, but I don’t understand why. With so many massive homes around a 70” is rather small and many people actually watch TV during the day or at nigh with lights on, front projection looks terrible under such conditions.
After owning a 70” I would prefer to go larger with my next set, probably 80” if possible, however front projection is out of the question for my use and I’m sure I am not alone.
Mitsubishi could own the BIG screen market if they got serious. With the price of 100” and 150” Plasmas being what it is there has to be room for a dramatically cheaper and better performing option for people who want larger then 73”.

Come on Mitsubushi, give us a BIG screen option, it would not cost much more the manufacture.

true, but I think people with big houses that can afford an expensive TV resist getting one beyond a certain size, because it looks "ghetto". It screams "I spend way too much time watching TV". Unless they can mount it on the wall and blend it in with the decor.

So when you get beyond 70", people start to look into a dedicated home theater and front projector. Then it's not ghetto but cool again. A dedicated pimped out HT says "yeah I've got money and know how to spend it in style".

Which means large screen non-flat panels will always be a niche market.

(At least that's how I think most people think. Me, I just want the biggest ass screen I can afford. But I'm a total geek.)

And some of us have a dedicated HT with front projection and still want a 70"+ screen for the living room (to replace the current 65", which is too small) to watch American Idol on.

And most custom homes (big houses) have niches designed for big TV's (so you don't need to mount it on the wall). Our niche is the perfect size for a 75" TV.

Well, months ago guesses about the price were in a reasonable range. The company that developed the laser technology stated that the laser illumination method wasn't any more expensive than current methods. I think it's a bad sign Mits did not reveal the prices at the recent press event. It likely means they don't want people to make purchase decisions based on price before having seen the product.

Personally I don't think they should price them any higher than their current high-end units as those models have had considerable issues and a lot of unhappy customers.

These should basically replace their top units at the same prices.

But it doesn't look good. If they go with the kind of prices people are mentioning here then I am done with Mitsubishi televisions of any kind.

It seems the major point of interest in this thread is price and slim form factor, picture quality seems to be taking a back seat.:confused:
If the Mitsubishi cant do black properly I’m not interested at any price, if it can and is not let down in other areas they can pretty much charge what ever they want for it and I’ll be interested, $10k is fine if it’s really good, after all there are no other high end options that don’t cost much, much more.
Front projection is not relevant competition IMHO due to light control limitations.

Has anyone seen a finalized, official estimate as to the lifespan of the lasers without fading?

IB

I've always said I will upgrade my Calibrated Mits 65411 when a Laser DLP of 100" is available close to a $3,000 price point. If everything goes right I say it will take around 5-7 years.

We shall see...I've been waiting for this Laser DLP for a long time.

My 65" Mits has been getting smaller lately...but I still have the best Picture Quality of anyone I know! :p

I've always said I will upgrade my Calibrated Mits 65411 when a Laser DLP of 100" is available close to a $3,000 price point. If everything goes right I say it will take around 5-7 years.

There will never be a 100" diagonal TV that sells for $3,000. The price of oil is increasing the cost of plastics and all electronic parts, so expect the downward trend in home electronics prices to dramatically reverse. Stagflation will be with us until we start to drill for oil on our own territory. That may not happen until the 2012 president is sworn in, then another 5 to 10 years for the oil to be extracted.

IB

There will never be a 100" diagonal TV that sells for $3,000. The price of oil is increasing the cost of plastics and all electronic parts, so expect the downward trend in home electronics prices to dramatically reverse. Stagflation will be with us until we start to drill for oil on our own territory. That may not happen until the 2012 president is sworn in, then another 5 to 10 years for the oil to be extracted.

IB

There's one thing I learned in Life...Never Say Never!!

It seems the major point of interest in this thread is price and slim form factor, picture quality seems to be taking a back seat.:confused:...$10k is fine if it’s really good...

We all care about PQ but sadly funs have to come into play to most. And the form factor comments are steming off the price comments. Most of us just don't want to spend $10k on a TV. I bought a 6020 the other day and not having basic controls on the picture is really bothering me at this point but I just won't let myslef spend $1500 for a few picture controls when I know that I'm going to want to upgrade again next year. And quite honestly I don't think most people browsing in the RPTV forums are looking to spend $5k or more on a TV. Maybe a few years ago, but I think those days are past. And don't forget how Laser TV was hyped up to be 65" plasma/LCD killers selling for under $2k.

10k??? Right. If MITS prices their dlp Laservue anywhere NEAR that price point , you can be sure it will be a total bust. With plasma/lcd prices coming south and screens getting progressively bigger, dlp must do the sizes the other technologies are not for now and do it cheaply. *See Samsung and their led 750's.

[QUOTE=Owen;14169140]It seems the major point of interest in this thread is price and slim form factor, picture quality seems to be taking a back seatQUOTE]

Not at all. The comments, mine included, are relative to what Mits will have to deal with to make this a commercially viable product. In order to overcome the form factor Mits will have to have a larger picture of equal or better quality to the best fixed pixel display, which in my opinion is the 9G Kuro. While you and I might be willing to pay 10k for a 73" set like that, well maybe not if the stockmarket repeats yesterday, there are simply not enough that would or could.

If the 73" Laservue equals or exceeds the Pioneer Elite 151 at a lower price, they may get somewhere with this. The problem is the vast majority of consumers aren't willing to pay big bucks for a TV set for any one of a number of reasons. High dollar sets are all niche products really. The advantage of one set over another, while important to us, is almost immaterial to most people. They crank up the brightness, contrast, etc, etc and make everything look cartoonish. They don't even notice the blueish whites, grayish blacks and orange fleshtones.

RPTV is a vanishing breed. However, quite often in the twilight of it's career the swan song is often the finest of it's kind. Laservue may be such an example. But even if it is, and lets all hope, if they price it north of the Kuro it will die a quick death in the marketplace no matter how good it is. Of course, that won't stop people like us from buying one. Especially 10-12 months from now when they unload them at a big discount because the market rejected a high priced big box. Which it will, trust me.

It seems the major point of interest in this thread is price and slim form factor, picture quality seems to be taking a back seat

Not at all. The comments, mine included, are relative to what Mits will have to deal with to make this a commercially viable product. In order to overcome the form factor Mits will have to have a larger picture of equal or better quality to the best fixed pixel display, which in my opinion is the 9G Kuro. While you and I might be willing to pay 10k for a 73" set like that, well maybe not if the stockmarket repeats yesterday, there are simply not enough that would or could.


Right. The problem is from the early impressions, we gather that black levels may be about the same, with laservue having an advantage in a wider color gamut, though the colors may be overdone. So it's not a slam dunk. Which leaves us with pricing.

We also know the current DLPs still suffer from some hotspotting common with RPTVs, and gemeotry issues -- not just imperfect geometry, but bad geometry, tilting, smiley face, etc. Hard to believe an even thinner first gen RP has these problems solved.


RPTV is a vanishing breed. However, quite often in the twilight of it's career the swan song is often the finest of it's kind. Laservue may be such an example. But even if it is, and lets all hope, if they price it north of the Kuro it will die a quick death in the marketplace no matter how good it is. Of course, that won't stop people like us from buying one. Especially 10-12 months from now when they unload them at a big discount because the market rejected a high priced big box. Which it will, trust me.

Yeah, the last couple of 9" gunned Diamond CRT RPTV models Mits made were among the best sets ever. Wish I had one of those. I'd be sitting on the sideline and watching these digital sets go by with some amusement.

I know someone who works for Mits and can get an employee discount, so if laservue turns out really well and I can get the 65" for ~$3500 I may jump. If not, I hope laser succeeds enough to pave the way for front projection, my heart's true desire.

true, but I think people with big houses that can afford an expensive TV resist getting one beyond a certain size, because it looks "ghetto". It screams "I spend way too much time watching TV". Unless they can mount it on the wall and blend it in with the decor.

So when you get beyond 70", people start to look into a dedicated home theater and front projector. Then it's not ghetto but cool again. A dedicated pimped out HT says "yeah I've got money and know how to spend it in style".

Which means large screen non-flat panels will always be a niche market.

(At least that's how I think most people think. Me, I just want the biggest ass screen I can afford. But I'm a total geek.)

When ghetto TVs get this big things will be really looking up! Looks ghetto not.

Has anyone seen a finalized, official estimate as to the lifespan of the lasers without fading?

IB

Yes, search this thread for posts by myself. But for now, just say the lasers are expected to last for the life of the set. Also, there is no death by fading, you get the same bright picture until the end of life. You can operate around a bias point such that the light output is a linear function of the drive current, then monitor the LOP and adjust the drive current accordingly. Cool!

65 inch=4500

73 inch=5500

65 inch=4500

73 inch=5500


Guessing or facts???

Everything's a guess at this point.

true, but I think people with big houses that can afford an expensive TV resist getting one beyond a certain size, because it looks "ghetto". It screams "I spend way too much time watching TV". Unless they can mount it on the wall and blend it in with the decor.

So when you get beyond 70", people start to look into a dedicated home theater and front projector. Then it's not ghetto but cool again. A dedicated pimped out HT says "yeah I've got money and know how to spend it in style".

Which means large screen non-flat panels will always be a niche market.

(At least that's how I think most people think. Me, I just want the biggest ass screen I can afford. But I'm a total geek.)

You're so right - people with big houses tend to be concerned about the decor, and a 70" TV looks ridiculous at fancy dinner parties.

You're so right - people with big houses tend to be concerned about the decor, and a 70" TV looks ridiculous at fancy dinner parties.

That's only true if you have placed your 70" where it IS a piece of decor. If you want to watch a movie and get the "theater" experience then you need a big screen and it should be placed in a "home theater" environment. It won't look "ghetto" then, in fact, it will look perfectly appropriate.

That's only true if you have placed your 70" where it IS a piece of decor. If you want to watch a movie and get the "theater" experience then you need a big screen and it should be placed in a "home theater" environment. It won't look "ghetto" then, in fact, it will look perfectly appropriate.

AMEN

There seems to be a preoccupation on this thread with Flat Screen TVs. I would remind everyone that many flat screen owners place their TVs on exactly the same type TV cabininets as used for RPTVs. Some mount their flat screens on the wall using wall brackets that , in effect, place the TVs from 6 to 9 inches from the wall. More affluent users might on occasion afford a motorized credenza type mounting cabinet and these are typically 17 to 18" thick. Now contrast that scenario with these new TVs which are expected to be 8" thick for the 65" and 10" thick for the 73"; wall mountable such that you are essentially looking at similar profile in terms of room foot print. Further, for those who can afford one of those motorized cabinets, these Mits TVs can easily fit into one of these cabinets. Did you say they are too heavy? Well, at 98 pounds or less, they are considerably lighter than corresponding Plasma TVs etc. In terms of size, the LaserVue TVs, with their thin moldings will be ~56" wide by 8" deep for the 65" TV. This is well within the specs of certain motorized cabinets. So on every point; low power, low weight, thinner RPTV profile, wider gamut, no rainbows and no motion judder, these sets should be outstanding.
Now with regards to black levels, I would remind everyone that these laser beams are Gaussian and diverge much more slowly than bulb or LED beams, this means those reflections off the DMD when it is pointed away from the screen, can be efficiently directed towards a well crafted black baffle rather than being scattered randomly throughout the cabinet. There exist today certain nanotube based black surfaces that absorb all impending radiation. So please, lets temper our scepticism with at least a few basic tecnical insights.

Im going for ghetto if that TV has everything I want. Its going to ghetto out right between my B&W 803Dz!!

wow at large tv's being ghetto??? are you kidding me

ghetto?? ghetto houses don't even have hdtv's ...

talk about an elitist statement...and i'm a young guy and a huge 70 inch tv looks pretty friggin awesome anywhere

There seems to be a preoccupation on this thread with Flat Screen TVs. I would remind everyone that many flat screen owners place their TVs on exactly the same type TV cabininets as used for RPTVs. Some mount their flat screens on the wall using wall brackets that , in effect, place the TVs from 6 to 9 inches from the wall. More affluent users might on occasion afford a motorized credenza type mounting cabinet and these are typically 17 to 18" thick. Now contrast that scenario with these new TVs which are expected to be 8" thick for the 65" and 10" thick for the 73"; wall mountable such that you are essentially looking at similar profile in terms of room foot print. Further, for those who can afford one of those motorized cabinets, these Mits TVs can easily fit into one of these cabinets. Did you say they are too heavy? Well, at 98 pounds or less, they are considerably lighter than corresponding Plasma TVs etc. In terms of size, the LaserVue TVs, with their thin moldings will be ~56" wide by 8" deep for the 65" TV. This is well within the specs of certain motorized cabinets. So on every point; low power, low weight, thinner RPTV profile, wider gamut, no rainbows and no motion judder, these sets should be outstanding.
Now with regards to black levels, I would remind everyone that these laser beams are Gaussian and diverge much more slowly than bulb or LED beams, this means those reflections off the DMD when it is pointed away from the screen, can be efficiently directed towards a well crafted black baffle rather than being scattered randomly throughout the cabinet. There exist today certain nanotube based black surfaces that absorb all impending radiation. So please, lets temper our scepticism with at least a few basic tecnical insights.
I nominate this for the best post of 2008.

from Wired.com

Laser TVs have been anticipated for quite a long time, even as far back as the 1960s. But the cost and the semiconductor processing needed to power quality, consumer grade light engines was too prohibitive (check out the field of optoelectronics for more information). Only until recently, when companies like Novalux started showing their new semiconductor laser tech, did we think we’d see any significant improvements or an actual product.
The Mitsubishi LaserVue will include several interesting breakthroughs that could build it a nice niche (until the expected high prices fall, down the road).

First of all, they promise to project the most extensive range of colors and the best depth of field of any display technology. Second, they'll consume only about a quarter of the power of other LCD's, and will feature the most accurate visual quality without picture degradation -- meaning it's supposed to look as good on its last day as its first.
In addition, it will have a 50,000-hour life span, produce twice the color spectrum of regular LCDs, and will include 3D viewing capability.
Earlier this year at CES 2008, we got an exclusive first look at the first Laser TV, and came away impressed with the technology, especially with the vivid, intense color range, and the beautiful motion processing.
For a first look, it looked real good -- despite the fact that our eyeballs turned completely red from staring at the super-bright display. Although, it has to be said, the setting was a Las Vegas nightclub, we were tired, and it was deep into the night. When it comes CES and press junkets, what happens in Vegas, definitely ends up on the Internet.

You're so right - people with big houses tend to be concerned about the decor, and a 70" TV looks ridiculous at fancy dinner parties.

Hate to break it to you, but fancy dinner parties are rarely held in the family room. They usually take place in the dining room/kitchen/patio/formal living room.

That's only true if you have placed your 70" where it IS a piece of decor. If you want to watch a movie and get the "theater" experience then you need a big screen and it should be placed in a "home theater" environment. It won't look "ghetto" then, in fact, it will look perfectly appropriate.

Not to take this thread further OT, but it's very rare that you can get a home theater experience without a front projector. Even at 70", most people aren't sitting the correct distance, not too mention all the audio problems that will come into play (and light issues) if it's not a dedicated room. And if it is dedicated, there's no reason not to get FP.

I guess our 65" HDTV is a piece of decor. It's the most obvious thing in the room, but that's what the family room is for - watching TV (and the occasional movie). For "fancy" dinner parties there's many other rooms to use.

There seems to be a preoccupation on this thread with Flat Screen TVs. I would remind everyone that many flat screen owners place their TVs on exactly the same type TV cabininets as used for RPTVs. Some mount their flat screens on the wall using wall brackets that , in effect, place the TVs from 6 to 9 inches from the wall. More affluent users might on occasion afford a motorized credenza type mounting cabinet and these are typically 17 to 18" thick. Now contrast that scenario with these new TVs which are expected to be 8" thick for the 65" and 10" thick for the 73"; wall mountable such that you are essentially looking at similar profile in terms of room foot print. Further, for those who can afford one of those motorized cabinets, these Mits TVs can easily fit into one of these cabinets. Did you say they are too heavy? Well, at 98 pounds or less, they are considerably lighter than corresponding Plasma TVs etc. In terms of size, the LaserVue TVs, with their thin moldings will be ~56" wide by 8" deep for the 65" TV. This is well within the specs of certain motorized cabinets. So on every point; low power, low weight, thinner RPTV profile, wider gamut, no rainbows and no motion judder, these sets should be outstanding.
Now with regards to black levels, I would remind everyone that these laser beams are Gaussian and diverge much more slowly than bulb or LED beams, this means those reflections off the DMD when it is pointed away from the screen, can be efficiently directed towards a well crafted black baffle rather than being scattered randomly throughout the cabinet. There exist today certain nanotube based black surfaces that absorb all impending radiation. So please, lets temper our scepticism with at least a few basic tecnical insights.Thank you for making sense....something that has been lacking around here on occasion.;)

Not to take this thread further OT, but it's very rare that you can get a home theater experience without a front projector. Even at 70", most people aren't sitting the correct distance, not too mention all the audio problems that will come into play (and light issues) if it's not a dedicated room. And if it is dedicated, there's no reason not to get FP.


1. The THX recommended viewing distance for a 73" diagonal is 8.2'. Perfect for many dedicated rooms.

2. Listening at an 8' distance from loudspeakers is also very normal.

3. Who wants to watch HD sports in a black hole?

The way I figure, 73" RP is perfect in this situation.

I hope this wasn’t posted here previously.
“The most exciting thing about the LaserVue line is the price range of $1800 to $4700.”

http://www.uberreview.com/2008/04/mitsubishi-laservue-at-a-price-you-can-afford.htm

This caused me to cancel an order for an 833 model. If the price quoted here is correct they may have a winner.

Edit: His source appears to be for the lamp DLPs.

1. The THX recommended viewing distance for a 73" diagonal is 8.2'. Perfect for many dedicated rooms....

But not so perfect if one is watching SD or overcompressed HD, which for many of us is still how much of our incoming TV signal arrives. Personally I'm not going to devote large amounts of money and house space to watching signal noise. Others can make their own choices.

My 60" Sony is 75" Diagonal. From the look of the pictures the Mits is probably the same or less because of the thin bezel. My wall is 15 feet long and 9 feet high. The only thing on that wall is my TV , speakers, sub and small base for the TV to sit on. If the Lazervue works out I would wall mount it so I could **** can that base and move my center channel right under it instead of out front of the base. This is in our family room, It has alot of light to deal with and no way am I hanging a projector in this room . Ive been patiently waiting for a 70" for over a year and feeling like ive been forgotten about by the TV industry. If this display is priced in my budget and looks great it will be in my living room this fall.

I paid over $4500 for my Mits 52628 with a 4 year warranty in Nov of 05. I don't think 4k is too much for a 60" Laserview DLP.

I will hang onto my Mits 52628 unit it dies maybe by then the laser sets will be much cheaper.

But not so perfect if one is watching SD or overcompressed HD, which for many of us is still how much of our incoming TV signal arrives. Personally I'm not going to devote large amounts of money and house space to watching signal noise. Others can make their own choices.

People, who have the resources to build dedicated rooms, probably also have TVs in dens or bedrooms, where they can watch the low-res noisy garbage and save the big screen for well-done productions. In my case, using a Dish 622, there's a lot of HD programming that can be watched at 1.35 pic. diagonal without being bothered with pic. impairments.

People, who have the resources to build dedicated rooms, probably also have TVs in dens or bedrooms, where they can watch the low-res noisy garbage and save the big screen for well-done productions....

I don't deny that. The majority of HDTV owners are not in this lofty economic level. We have one main TV, one room to watch it in, and one source of signals. That means that these elitist "standards" pushed by Lexus-priced home theatre peddlers such as THX are not appropriate for everyone. But us course us plebes do not finance their profits.

1. The THX recommended viewing distance for a 73" diagonal is 8.2'. Perfect for many dedicated rooms.

2. Listening at an 8' distance from loudspeakers is also very normal.

3. Who wants to watch HD sports in a black hole?

The way I figure, 73" RP is perfect in this situation.

Yep, sounds like it's perfect for your situation. You'll find, however, that most viewers are sitting much further back than 8'.

And HD sports are great in a pitch black room, BTW. If I don't feel like watching them that way, however, there's always the 65" in the family room.



I don't deny that. The majority of HDTV owners are not in this lofty economic level. We have one main TV, one room to watch it in, and one source of signals. That means that these elitist "standards" pushed by Lexus-priced home theatre peddlers such as THX are not appropriate for everyone. But us course us plebes do not finance their profits.

The standards aren't elitist and they are appropriate for everyone. It's just that not everyone can adhere to them. The standards are for a proper HT and HT experience. Not everyone can have that. I've known for many years, that I'll never have a yacht. The standards for yacht building/owning are of no concern to me as I know I'll never have one. I have a pontoon boat, but I don't claim it's a yacht. Many people, however, ignore the HT specs and continue to call their set-ups HT's. That's the difference. I love my pontoon boat and think it's great, just like many people love their living room set-ups and think they're great (including me - I enjoy my living room set-up more than the HT most of the time), but a living room is not a HT (where the so called elitist standards apply)

...The standards are for a proper HT and HT experience. ...

I respectfully draw attention to the fact that the part of AVS we on conversing on is "display devices" "rear projection units". There is another part of AVS specifically for high-end home theatre set-ups. I don't go there much and never post there because I can't afford something like that and would have no place to put it.

I try to suggest distance and display size standards appropriate to the equipment central to this part of the forum, and to the typical range of signal inputs used by most of its participants, which vary from SD to Blu-ray.

I respectfully draw attention to the fact that the part of AVS we on conversing on is "display devices" "rear projection units". There is another part of AVS specifically for high-end home theatre set-ups. I don't go there much and never post there because I can't afford something like that and would have no place to put it.

I try to suggest distance and display size standards appropriate to the equipment central to this part of the forum, and to the typical range of signal inputs used by most of its participants, which vary from SD to Blu-ray.

I agree with what you're saying dave.

Just pointing out that many members here "think" they're setting up HT's when in fact they're not. If someone wants a HT experience, screen size to seating distance ratios come into play no matter what area of the forum you're in.

As to affording something, my HT cost less than $20,000 (build + equipment). Some here are willing to pay 1/3 - 1/2 of that just for a display. It's usually not a matter of cost, it's a matter of what's important and finding a way to do it.

Hate to break it to you, but fancy dinner parties are rarely held in the family room. They usually take place in the dining room/kitchen/patio/formal living room.


So you blindfold your guests while taking them to the dining room? :D

People are rather touchy I think, we're just making the point that the mainstream tends to not like huge TVs, so the market is rather small, and will face very strong competition from front projectors, which are a lot cheaper.

So you blindfold your guests while taking them to the dining room? :D


Depends on the type of party.

I hope this wasn’t posted here previously.
“The most exciting thing about the LaserVue line is the price range of $1800 to $4700.”

http://www.uberreview.com/2008/04/mitsubishi-laservue-at-a-price-you-can-afford.htm

This caused me to cancel an order for an 833 model. If the price quoted here is correct they may have a winner.

Edit: His source appears to be for the lamp DLPs.
I think you're unintentionally spreading misinformation. The Mitsubishi Laservue's have not been priced yet and are most likely to be quite expensive when the prices are released. They will only be in 65 and 73-inch varieties so there is no way the prices would be 1800 and 4700 respectively. That price quoted is for the regular mitsubishi line of Diamond DLP, 50 to 73 inch. A laservue cheaper than their regular lineup would be moronic as it would cannibalize all their other products. They will be expensive.

Standards for the reproduction of audio and video, be they theater standards adapted for home playback or dedicated home standards like SMTPE and THX respectively are not elitist. Thinking that you do not have a "true" home theater system unless you have configured your system to those standards, however, is elitist. It may be annoying to some who have set up their systems in a dedicated room and taken the time and care to set up their systems according to, say, THX standards that other people lump their systems together with a TV and inexpensive surround setup in a living room or den by calling them both home theaters, but that's too bad. They are both home theaters by definition. They are both not DEDICATED home theaters, and that IS a distinction worth making. And yes, I do have my gear set up in a dedicated room, so I'm not trying to justify calling a "lesser" setup a home theater.

We'll just have to disagree Sean.

You can certainly have home theater equipment in a living room, but by definition (to use your term), a living room is a living room. A home theater is a home theater. It can't be both. Just like a kitchen is not called a bathroom regardless of whether or not you keep your toothbrush in it.

The one thing I don't get is why people get offended at that reality (and resort to elitist labeling). I've seen living room set-ups that blow my HT out of the water. Saying it's not a HT is not a knock against it, it's just what it is.

A home theater is a room, not a bunch of equipment.

So,
A HT is not really a HT unless its dedicated? You are nuts but intitled to your opinion. My "HT" if I may be so bold, is in my living room and will blow your frigging mind both musically and while watching movies. $20,00 grand.....you got a good start.

So,
A HT is not really a HT unless its dedicated? You are nuts but intitled to your opinion. My "HT" if I may be so bold, is in my living room and will blow your frigging mind both musically and while watching movies. $20,00 grand.....you got a good start.
I largely agree except for the financial comment - to a point (on both ends of the spectrum), the amount of money spent is largely irrelevent. It's where you put the money, how you calibrate the system, etc. that matters. A HOME theater is pretty much whatever the homeowner decides it should be - it's their own personal theater. If it happens to share duties as a living room or den, that doesn't mean it's no longer a home theater just because some elitist snob decides it can't be. The difference is that some people set higher standards for themselves AND have the resources to meet those standards - and that's fine. But someone having a simple home theater that consists of a 32" TV and cheap surround sound system doesn't take anything away from the other person who's invested a quarter of a million bucks into a full blown dedicated room with super high quality gear - they're the same thing just built to slightly (:D) different standards.

The comparison of a bathroom and kitchen was truly absurd.

Oh - $20k to some is a drop in the bucket while to others it's a completely unobtainable sum of money. So the comment that it's "simply" a matter a matter of finding a way to do it strikes me as somewhat ignorent.

I could of left that out but it seemed fitting, my bad:)

Lets get back on topic this is BS
LAZERVUE!!!!!!

So,
A HT is not really a HT unless its dedicated? You are nuts but intitled to your opinion. My "HT" if I may be so bold, is in my living room and will blow your frigging mind both musically and while watching movies. $20,00 grand.....you got a good start.

Again, I never stated a living room set-up can't blow someone away. Or that money is the deciding factor.

IMO, it's just ridiculous to call a room something that it's not.

Guess what, I have a pretty good living room set-up, a dedicated HT and a game room with 5.1 sound.

Does that mean I have THREE home theaters?

I also have 2 channel audio and a nice display in the bedroom.

Does that mean I have FOUR home theaters?

I have a TV in my office.

Does that mean I have FIVE hoe theaters in my home?

Absurd.

Me: "Lets watch a movie in the theater tonight"
Wife: "Sure, which one?"

You have to draw the line somewhere. Where do you draw it?


If you take all the equipment out of the room and list the house for sale, what would the room be called? In your case, it would be listed as a living room, because that's what it is. And it's not elitist to say that. It's elitist to find a name for a room in your house that's not what it is. It can have ht gear. it can be a ht system. It's just not a ht.

Can't believe people actually disagree with that. Why is it so important to some members to call what they have a ht? Why are they ashamed to call it a living room or entertainment room with a great system?


The comparison of a bathroom and kitchen was truly absurd.


No it's not. You're taking a room in the house that is commonly called one thing (in this case a kitchen), and calling it something else just because it has items from a different room (in this case the bathroom). How is it different?


I've had my HT for 3 years. Before that (and still), I had a pretty good 5.1 system in my living room of my old house. I never called it a home theater and can't imagine telling people I had one, only for them to discover I just had equipment in my living room. Seems a bit pretentious. But then again, I also don't tell people I live in a Castle, drive a sports car (I have a Hyundai), or own a yacht (pontoon boat). But according to you fine folks, I guess I could. Apparently I can call anything I own, anything I want since there's no standards.

I could of left that out but it seemed fitting, my bad:)

Lets get back on topic this is BS
LAZERVUE!!!!!!
Agreed, but I can't help myself - there's just one more point that needs to be made :).

Guess what, I have a pretty good living room set-up, a dedicated HT and a game room with 5.1 sound.
Explain this - if a HT cannot be dual purpose, why do you see the need to say "dedicated HT"? I don't go around telling my friends and coworkers that I have a dedicated bathroom in my house...

No it's not. You're taking a room in the house that is commonly called one thing (in this case a kitchen), and calling it something else just because it has items from a different room (in this case the bathroom). How is it different?
The major difference is that I can watch a movie in a room that I refer to as both a family room and a HT. I cannot (reasonably) relieve myself in the room that I call the kitchen. Hopefully this distinction is clear.

home theater
n. A system of sophisticated electronic equipment for the presentation of theater-quality images and sound in the home.

That is the definition of a home theater according to the American Heritage Dictionary. That is what I meant when I said 'by definition'. Do I agree with that definition entirely? No, not really, as most good home theaters nowadays will exceed the presentation quality you get in an average theater, but many can't even come close theater quality playback either. To me, though, that's a minor quibble.

Stew, I think you are confusing that system for the room that it's in. When people say they have a home theater, they are usually talking about the gear that makes up that theater (up to and including any acoustic treatments they may have added), rather than the room it's in. This why we make the distinction between a home theater and a dedicated home theater, the latter meaning that it is housed in a room devoted expressly to the purpose of home theater and maximizing the experience.

If I were to put a home gym in my garage, would I be wrong to call it a home gym because I didn't build a dedicate room in my house for it? Nope, it'd still be my home gym.

And in answer to your question, I'd say you have four home theaters in your home, the TV by itself doesn't count, and one dedicated home theater, or a home theater room or whatever. How you make that distinction in your home is up to you, it's your home, so if you just want to call the dedicated home theater your home theater, so be it. But by definition, you have four.

Agreed, but I can't help myself - there's just one more point that needs to be made :).


Since there's no topic to discuss currently, we might as well continue this debate as long as it can be discussed logically.


Explain this - if a HT cannot be dual purpose, why do you see the need to say "dedicated HT"? I don't go around telling my friends and coworkers that I have a dedicated bathroom in my house...


That's the point. There should be no need to say "dedicated HT". I've never used the term and it actually seems a bit silly/redundant.

Me (to guest): "Want to go watch a movie in the dedicated home theater?"

Seems silly.


The major difference is that I can watch a movie in a room that I refer to as both a family room and a HT. I cannot (reasonably) relieve myself in the room that I call the kitchen. Hopefully this distinction is clear.

You're overlooking my point and focusing on the minutia. Use living room/bedroom then. If you put a bed in the living room is it now a bedroom? You can now sleep there. The point is that in order to take one room that is commonly called something and call it something else, something has to be done to the room. If you want to turn the living room into a bedroom, you would need to add a closet and doors to all the entrances (at a minimum). If you want to turn a living room into a home theater, you need to alter the room too (not just put in equipment).



Stew, I think you are confusing that system for the room that it's in. When people say they have a home theater, they are usually talking about the gear that makes up that theater (up to and including any acoustic treatments they may have added), rather than the room it's in. This why we make the distinction between a home theater and a dedicated home theater, the latter meaning that it is housed in a room devoted expressly to the purpose of home theater and maximizing the experience.


Yes, exactly. The problem though is that people aren't usually talking about th gear that makes up the room. They're calling their room that. Some people started using the dedicated ht distinction as a way to seperate the two, but my point is that that isn't needed. A home theater should be the same as a home theater room. If someone says they have a home theater, it should be clear what they mean (a room dedicated to theater). The fact that it's not clear is what leads to confusion and nobody speaking the same language. If someone told you they have a "living room theater" or a "theater set-up in their living room", you'd know exactly what they meant, so why the need for them to confuse the issue by just saying home theater?


If I were to put a home gym in my garage, would I be wrong to call it a home gym because I didn't build a dedicate room in my house for it? Nope, it'd still be my home gym.


Excellent question and in this example I'd agree with you. Why? 2 reasons.

1. If you had all that equipment in there, you'd no longer be able to park your car there, so it would cease being a garage by primary use (no longer dual purpose).
2. The standards for a gym are much lower. All you really need is equipment to call anything a gym. I've been to actual gyms that only had equipment (no locker rooms, no pools, etc.). So, that's all you really need. I wouldn't call it a spa though.


And in answer to your question, I'd say you have four home theaters in your home, the TV by itself doesn't count, and one dedicated home theater, or a home theater room or whatever. How you make that distinction in your home is up to you, it's your home, so if you just want to call the dedicated home theater your home theater, so be it. But by definition, you have four.

But it shouldn't necessarily be up to me (or anyone else). There should be set definitions that identify what people have. If the current definition of home theater means that I have 4 of them, then the definition needs to change.

But it shouldn't necessarily be up to me (or anyone else). There should be set definitions that identify what people have. If the current definition of home theater means that I have 4 of them, then the definition needs to change.

Here's a possible solution - call it a media room, if it's a dedicated room for a home theater system. This might reduce some of the confusion.

...What would you rather talk about? There's been practically zero new information on these sets in 6 months. You'd rather the thread just die? ...

When (if?) we actually get hard data and see a commercial introduction this thread will be replaced by one or more owner's threads and perhaps others such as calibration, specific problems etc. In the meantime, I agree, we might as well continue to have fun and keep the thread bumped. Harmless enough.

Relax. What would you rather talk about? There's been practically zero new information on these sets in 6 months. You'd rather the thread just die?

I'd rather not have to read through this miserably off-topic personal debate when trying to get information out of this already monstrous thread. Having nothing better to do is no excuse for threadjacking.

Take your debate and start another thread with it, but don't junk up this one.

So...

Let's speculate about price since that's the next big bit of news we're waiting for. If Mitsuibishi thinks they can launch LaserVue at plasma prices, they're way too cocky about the PQ. 60" Kuro? $4800. 65" top-o' the line (at the moment) Panny? 5K. Samsung was smart to slash prices on the A750 LED DLP line they just launched at 61 and 67" points. I don't think consumers will buy a RPTV for the same price they can get a flat panel with comparable PQ. Yes, the PQ will be debatable. I know you can't buy a 73" flat panel unless you're willing to part with luxury car sized sums of money.

I'm guessing $4K for the 65" and $5K for the 73". That seems to be less than some expect, but still way too high for me to justify given the flat panel market. Maybe I'm being hopeful and optimistic because the PQ might be awesome enough to motivate me to buy a LaserVue.

I agreed wth the 4500 for the 65" and 5500 for the 73". We shall see.

I worry about reliability....
I work at BB part time. We just had yet another Mits DLP go out; this time, it was on display less than a month!
I've seen one Samsung, but about 4-5 Mits DLP's go out. I've also had lots of customers tell me that theirs went prematurely.

So here's to hoping the QC is a little better; especially when it's looking like they are going to be asking quite a healthy profit margin compared to production cost!

I worry about reliability....
I work at BB part time. We just had yet another Mits DLP go out; this time, it was on display less than a month!
I've seen one Samsung, but about 4-5 Mits DLP's go out. I've also had lots of customers tell me that theirs went prematurely.

So here's to hoping the QC is a little better; especially when it's looking like they are going to be asking quite a healthy profit margin compared to production cost!


That is scary, hope they kick the QC up a notch.

I worry about reliability....
I work at BB part time. We just had yet another Mits DLP go out; this time, it was on display less than a month!
I've seen one Samsung, but about 4-5 Mits DLP's go out. I've also had lots of customers tell me that theirs went prematurely.

So here's to hoping the QC is a little better; especially when it's looking like they are going to be asking quite a healthy profit margin compared to production cost!

Please explain what you mean when you say the sets "go out". Is this a random shutdown where you have to wait about a minute before you turn it back on or something else?

is this on the '08 model mitsu's or last years?


I worry about reliability....
I work at BB part time. We just had yet another Mits DLP go out; this time, it was on display less than a month!
I've seen one Samsung, but about 4-5 Mits DLP's go out. I've also had lots of customers tell me that theirs went prematurely.

So here's to hoping the QC is a little better; especially when it's looking like they are going to be asking quite a healthy profit margin compared to production cost!

I am not sure of model numbers but last year's higher end models featured a brighter picture which was accomplished via a larger bulb, thus more heat and more problems. You can go on forums with customer comments and see lots of people with broken systems. Not everyone, but far too many.

This is why I think the laser sets should simply replace the current high end units at the same price points and be done with last year's mess.

I am not sure of model numbers but last year's higher end models featured a brighter picture which was accomplished via a larger bulb, thus more heat and more problems. You can go on forums with customer comments and see lots of people with broken systems. Not everyone, but far too many.

This is why I think the laser sets should simply replace the current high end units at the same price points and be done with last year's mess.

That would be great, but I don't think too many of us around here will be holding our breath for that to happen.

Too bad. :(

In case anyone is not absolutely roped in to Laservue, Best Buy has the new Sammy 67" LED at 2,350 on sale this week.:eek:

Originally posted by Stew4MSU:
That's a possibility, although when I think media room I think multi-use. IIRC, thebland calls his a screening room for just that reason. I don't necessarily think we need to change the name of actual home theaters, though, I was thinking about more of a change in the term for home theater systems in other rooms. Obviously, I'm in the minority in this sub-forum (TV's). This discussion in other forums (projectors, etc.) would be entirely different.

I am fortunate enough to live in a house that has a formal dining area and a breakfeast area as well as a family room and a living room. So if someone only has 2 rooms where I have 4 what should they call them? If I am at their house and they say lets go in the family room, do I correct them and say, you mean your living room. Or if they say lets eat in the dining room do I say you mean that place with the table because I wouldn't really call it a breakfeast area or a formal dining room?

I am over on a military base in Germany right now and I go to watch movies in the big building called the Patch Theater. Nice stadium seating and everything, however, the screen quality is not the proper aspect ratio, in my opinion, and the sound stinks compared to my 7.1 system. I think the definition was already given and I think most people have a HT by definition.

Now, as for the topic. IMHO, I feel if Mits is going to try and price with flat panel we will see maybe 2 cycles of Laser TV and the death of RPTV. Wall mountable or not, thin seems to be in, whether necessary or not. I could care less, I have to much equipment to put underneath plus a CC with a Sub built in. I am hoping the PQ is everything and more. I have a Direct Buy membership, so I should be able to get a great price, but that won't save Laser-Vu in the retail market. Mits taking this long to release specs and pricing is not a good sign.

In case anyone is not absolutely roped in to Laservue, Best Buy has the new Sammy 67" LED at 2,350 on sale this week.:eek:

Or you could have ordered it from Amazon for the past couple weeks at around $2050 plus no tax and free delivery, so about $500 less than BB's "sale" price:rolleyes:

I am fortunate enough to live in a house that has a formal dining area and a breakfeast area as well as a family room and a living room. So if someone only has 2 rooms where I have 4 what should they call them? If I am at their house and they say lets go in the family room, do I correct them and say, you mean your living room. Or if they say lets eat in the dining room do I say you mean that place with the table because I wouldn't really call it a breakfeast area or a formal dining room?


As I'm sure you know, all of those rooms are more loosely defined and any of the terminologies would fit (but technically a breakfast area is attached to the kitchen and a dining room is a separate room).


I think the definition was already given and I think most people have a HT by definition.


That's the major point I guess we'd disagree. I think that the vast majority of people don't. In order to have a HT, viewers/listeners should have a theater experience. Don't you agree? Many people accomplish this in the audio area, but very few do in the video area. I saw a post on another forum last night that went something like this:

"I'm just starting on my first real theater. I just bought a 46" LCD............"

and then went on with a few questions. Now, it doesn't matter what type of room it's in. In order to get immersed in the film like you would in a theater, you'd have to be sitting 5 feet away from a 46" screen (1.5 X screen width). I seriously doubt that the majority of people with 46" screens (the most popular size sold) are sitting within 5 feet of their display.

Now, can they have a great sound system with that 46" display? yes. Can the 46" display have a great picture and be good enough for them? Yes. It's still not a home theater or a home theater experience. That's the problem. There's not enough standards and/or definitions.

Is a 17" computer monitor connected to 2.1 speakers a home theater? Why or why not? Where is the line drawn?


Mits taking this long to release specs and pricing is not a good sign.

Agreed.

If someone says his wife is HOT, I'm not going to argue with him. Similarly, if he says he has a HT, no argument from me.

I don't have a HT, or even a TV room. My setup is completely ghetto. Incidentally, since several people didn't care for my use of ghetto , I should say among my circle of friends at least, "ghetto" is more an affectionate than derogatory term. It just means something unaesthetic, or shoddily put together, McGuyver'ed, not meant to last or for public consumption, etc. We wouldn't dream of going to someone who really IS poor and say man this place is ghetto. Kind of like kids who say something is "gay" to mean "lame"; it's not meant to be a homophobic slur.

Man, this thread has really wandered :)

Back to pointless speculation: these setts will be priced too high initially, followed by a substantial price drop, where upon people will declare "too little too late" and "It(RPTV)'s dead, Jim".

If someone says his wife is HOT, I'm not going to argue with him. Similarly, if he says he has a HT, no argument from me.


Exactly. Because there's no standards for 'hot", it's all subjective. Currently the term "home theater" is the same way. All subjective.

Originally posted by Stew4MSU:
That's the major point I guess we'd disagree. I think that the vast majority of people don't. In order to have a HT, viewers/listeners should have a theater experience. Don't you agree? Many people accomplish this in the audio area, but very few do in the video area.

That was my point for stating what is a real movie theater experience at my current location. Screen ratios in movie theaters are cleary dependent on where you set. In the theater I referenced it's at least 70' from front to back. Unless I set in the front 3rd of the theater looking up, my home setup is much better.

So what makes a true HT give you a true movie theater experience besides screen size and audio? Is it the darkness, uncomfortable chairs, the smell of popcorn, stadium seating, the silhouette of somebody elses head in front of me or the kid kicking the back of my seat? :-) The quality of the audio and video are my two biggest factors. To me, that's what it takes to give me a movie theater experience. The 73' Mits will do that for me since I have a 7.1 setup thats real close to Dolby specs. Even my 50" beat the B&M building where I am at.

I guess we can agree to disagree. Now will somebody from Mits come on the forum and give us some info, or are we going to see the TV version of the Edsel coming out soon.

I am not sure of model numbers but last year's higher end models featured a brighter picture which was accomplished via a larger bulb, thus more heat and more problems. You can go on forums with customer comments and see lots of people with broken systems. Not everyone, but far too many.

This is why I think the laser sets should simply replace the current high end units at the same price points and be done with last year's mess.
I DO believe you work at BB. Since you were unable to know the model, model year or specific problem that happened.

'TV Work wrong'

I DO believe you work at BB. Since you were unable to know the model, model year or specific problem that happened.

'TV Work wrong'

That's gotta leave a mark. :eek:

So what makes a true HT give you a true movie theater experience besides screen size and audio? Is it the darkness, uncomfortable chairs, the smell of popcorn, stadium seating, the silhouette of somebody elses head in front of me or the kid kicking the back of my seat? :-)
You forgot one of the most important aspects of a true movie theater experience - the sticky floors :D.

I'm as anxious as the rest of you to hear more details on these LaserVue sets and am holding off upgrading my current 65" Mits RPTV until these sets are more of a known quantity (picture quality and price). I don't care if they're 2" or 10" deep as they'll still be a lot shallower than my current RPTV and weigh a lot less. I don't care if they can hang on the wall or not. I do care about getting a 65" or (preferably) larger display with excellent picture quality at a (somewhat) reasonable cost.

Moonhawk hit the nail on the head. The weakness of fixed pixel displays from day one has been their inability to display a true, CRT level, black. My Samsung 6188 is a very good set, but the black level of the Pioneer Elite 151 leaves it in the shade of gray. The 8G, and now the 9G, Kuro is the first fixed pixel display that has overcome the black level weakness. Now that Pioneer has raised the bar, the Lazervue must equal or exceed the Pioneer's black level if they have any hope of charging similar prices.

From what I read it has done that, that is surpassed the Kuro in PQ. Only time will tell. The biggest problems they're going to have initially is that the Laser set will only come in large sizes, 65 and above, so therefore they have no chance of taking back some customer who left the RPTV market in favor of flat panels. Most people don't buy TV's 65 inches and above.

From what I read it has done that, that is surpassed the Kuro in PQ. Only time will tell. The biggest problems they're going to have initially is that the Laser set will only come in large sizes, 65 and above, so therefore they have no chance of taking back some customer who left the RPTV market in favor of flat panels. Most people don't buy TV's 65 inches and above.

Every report on the Laservue says the red is oversaturated, and maybe blue. So if the colors are off, you really can't say it even matches the Kuro. Makes one wonder why Mitsubishi didn't calibrate it better.

Every report on the Laservue says the red is oversaturated, and maybe blue. So if the colors are off, you really can't say it even matches the Kuro. Makes one wonder why Mitsubishi didn't calibrate it better.

Right, the question is, can the color points on the LaserVue be adjusted to match the SMPTE HD standard? If they can, great. But if not, I'll pass, at least until a enhanced color standard is approved and there is program material in the pipeline conforming to the specs. I really like watching programs in the manner the colorists intended.

Actually, the question that I am more interested in is how the spectra of the three colors compare to that of the CIE standard observer. The colorimetry of the primaries is one consideration, but you can have that correct and still have a pretty strange result in other colors if the spectra are not distributed properly. This is more of a concern with devices with highly localized distributions like laser and LED sources.

Damn, this wait is killer. I am torn between the Laservue HDTV or Sony's new 55 inch coming out this yr.

Anyone know if the Laservue will support 1080p via it's PC input? Will it even have a PC input to connect a PC to it?

Agreed, but AFAIK, not easily measured or controlled unless you include the complimentary color points in the mix. I know Mits has been touting their six color correction system, which may be a way to offset spectra distribution problems.

Actually, the question that I am more interested in is how the spectra of the three colors compare to that of the CIE standard observer. The colorimetry of the primaries is one consideration, but you can have that correct and still have a pretty strange result in other colors if the spectra are not distributed properly. This is more of a concern with devices with highly localized distributions like laser and LED sources.

No one KNOWS very much at all. I suggest not getting to worked up about a new technology until it is here and been put though its paces. The Sony LCDs are refined and quite excellent performers that have been very reliable sets. The Laservue stuff is still pending and we really won't know much until it hits the street.

You should have waited a few days to post #1776

No one KNOWS very much at all. I suggest not getting to worked up about a new technology until it is here and been put though its paces. The Sony LCDs are refined and quite excellent performers that have been very reliable sets. The Laservue stuff is still pending and we really won't know much until it hits the street.

Agreed, but AFAIK, not easily measured or controlled unless you include the complimentary color points in the mix. I know Mits has been touting their six color correction system, which may be a way to offset spectra distribution problems.

With a six color wheel you have more options in filter selection. With laser, they will, presumably, not use a color wheel but use R,G, & B filters like most other three chip systems. With a starting point of a colimated source with limited spectral characteristics, filter selection will be critical.

As far as measurement, this is easy if you have a spectroradiometer and the software to report it. I have spectral plots on every set I calibrate.

It should be noted that the color management system that mits has used in the other technologies has been pretty limited and only allows marginal correction. They are in a whole new ball game here, and given their arrogance in design demonstrated in the past, we could get anything from a great result to something that is a standout for the wrong reasons.

Pricing of Lasevue may get down favorably before release.
Laservue competes against current DLP offerings from Mitsu and Samsung, where 65" costs around $1500.
Assume currently Mitsu diamond DLP 65" is at $2.5K street, no way price premium can excced 50% to be succesfull business operation, which should make it around $3.2-3.8K
Going for 73", price would jump considerably, but should not exceed $5K

If Mitsu released it a year ago, they could easy get more money.

Think in this prospective, Sony released their 70" XBR5 model and many people put orders at $6K unseen. I did it, but many was not enough to justify full production efforts. One should keep in mind the cost and weight of Sony XBR5 model was quite extreme due to glass panel.

Laservue on other hand is modified Diamond with supposively cheaper technology (claimed originally), and higher mark up potential.

Delaying release of Laservue, quite few customers juump the fence with current line of DLP sets just minimizing potential for great sale success of Laservue.


When economy is in doom mode people think twice of getting even Diamond model compared to 736. Going for Laservue would limit clientele severely, if price exceedes $3500 for 65" and $5000 for 73" on street it would become such a small niche market. Only positive part here is low production cost, so Mitsu can screw people just to keep high margins and create an advertisement by unaffordable luxury.

Remember the time, when this X-mass 65" Panasonic plasma was barely moving even at $4500 sale price. At that time I was waiting for Laservue release, but with new wave of DLP TVs being released at bottom end pricing, I would think twice to justify extra.

It is coming from a guy who put over $15K in home theater sound.

You should have waited a few days to post #1776

Say what?

What it competes against will depend on its performance and how Mitsubishi positions the product in terms of features and design. Many seem to assume that the point is to sell the kind of numbers that the products mentioned above do. I suspect that given the time to market that this product seems to be taking, that the supplies will not be that great. Again, we'll see when we see.

Assumptions, assumptions, ass...

Say what?

I just happened to notice the post # of lcaillo a few posts back.

Say what?
1776 was the year America declared it's independence from British colonial rule.
July 4th is only a few days off...hence his post.

What it competes against will depend on its performance and how Mitsubishi positions the product in terms of features and design. Many seem to assume that the point is to sell the kind of numbers that the products mentioned above do. I suspect that given the time to market that this product seems to be taking, that the supplies will not be that great. Again, we'll see when we see.

Assumptions, assumptions, ass...
This is the way I was thinking too. They dont want to hurt sales of their current lamp DLP models. So probably they would just 'introduce' this new technology in a limited way.
So they would keep the price high.

I get it--His post number, not the thread post number...:o

This is the way I was thinking too. They dont want to hurt sales of their current lamp DLP models. So probably they would just 'introduce' this new technology in a limited way.
So they would keep the price high.
That makes some sense to me too....
DLPs are at rock-bottom prices right now.
It makes you wonder whether the PQ tech is worth more than twice the price for the same screen size.

While we await the next last hope for RPTV Holy Grail in Laservue and we debate what we shall call our rooms may we ponder having it all in one! :D

The Idiocracy Solution for the future.

http://www.codinghorror.com/blog/images/idiocracy-tv-dvd.jpg

That looks like my 70” setup except I have a 6 foot high 21” wide Magneplanar flat panel speak on both sides, each with its own sub. :D

I like the chair mounted rear speakers, very practical.

That looks like my 70” setup except I have a 6 foot high 21” wide Magneplanar flat panel speak on both sides, each with its own sub. :D

I like the chair mounted rear speakers, very practical.


Owen , you do have an awsome setup bro. I love that center above the SXRD and those two towers.

This is the way I was thinking too. They dont want to hurt sales of their current lamp DLP models. So probably they would just 'introduce' this new technology in a limited way.
So they would keep the price high.

Do you believe that to mean that the prices will be north of the Diamond DLP's MSRP or the actual DLP street prices??

Unless I can get it on the street for ~3500ish (about a grand more than the current diamond 65"), I think I will go for the Sammy. For me to spend above that amount it would have to blow Kuro out of the water. I don't think it will.

Do you believe that to mean that the prices will be north of the Diamond DLP's MSRP or the actual DLP street prices??
I think most of us are expecting that the Laservue TV's MSRP will be more than the MSRP of the Diamond series DLP's. That should translate to the street prices of the Laservues also being proportionately higher than the street prices of the Diamond series DLP's. Nothing else would really make much sense - the Laservues are expected to be better than the Diamond series, so it wouldn't make sense for them to initially be less money unless they intend to discontinue the Diamond series AND have no inventory left to get rid of OR lower the MSRP's across the board (but the Laservues would still be expected to be the most expensive).

I have been waiting patiently for prices on these. The 65" would be a perfect replacement for my aging Sony 60" projection. However, I think we are going to end up having to overpay initially because of the lack of competion. From all I have read the laser components are not very expensive and once Mitsubishi has competion I am sure prices will drop to at or below current DLP prices. So is any other companies talking about bringing out laser tv's next year at least?

I will be meeting with Mitsubishi reps tomorrow. I'll find out if there are any updates on the release date and MSRP, as well as their new LCD panels with soundbars.

^Thanx for that.
Alot guys are waiting to hear something about price, availability, and model numbers.

...once Mitsubishi has competion I am sure prices will drop to at or below current DLP prices. So is any other companies talking about bringing out laser tv's next year at least?

There doesn't need to be other laser manufacturers. Most buyers don't care about the insides of TVs, they care about how they look, both image quality and (for many at least) the form factor. Lots of people don't even know the difference between projection, LCD flat-panel, and plasma. So all TVs compete with each other.

Once the new manufacturing plants come online to make large LCD flat-panels, Mitsubishi will have all the competition it can handle. So it better get a market share for laser and soon.

Originally posted by davegow:
There doesn't need to be other laser manufacturers. Most buyers don't care about the insides of TVs, they care about how they look, both image quality and (for many at least) the form factor. Lots of people don't even know the difference between projection, LCD flat-panel, and plasma. So all TVs compete with each other.

Very true, and it seems the form factor of choice is flat. I just can't see RPTV lasting more than a few more years. I am over in Germany right now and went to 3 different electronics stores. There wasn't a single RPTV, everything was flat panel and there must have been at least 50+ TVs in each store. I can't picture Japan using anything else but flat do to living space issues, so where is the market for RPTV? I hope for their sake Laservue blows the doors off the competition PQ wise, otherwise I think they will have a very short lifespan. Lack of information at this stage and taking this long to market is not a good sign. Are we looking at another SXRD XBR5 situation, I hope not.

Very true, and it seems the form factor of choice is flat. I just can't see RPTV lasting more than a few more years. I am over in Germany right now and went to 3 different electronics stores. There wasn't a single RPTV, everything was flat panel and there must have been at least 50+ TVs in each store. I can't picture Japan using anything else but flat do to living space issues, so where is the market for RPTV? I hope for their sake Laservue blows the doors off the competition PQ wise, otherwise I think they will have a very short lifespan. Lack of information at this stage and taking this long to market is not a good sign. Are we looking at another SXRD XBR5 situation, I hope not.

Are you sure that Geremany and Japan are the best places to devine market trends?

I just met with our Mitsubishi Rep. First thing is the Reps are under NDA at the moment. Expected deliver of the 65" is end of August, and the larger model in January. Rough price on the 65" is $5K retail. It's 3D capable. They may be releasing new 3D glasses that resemble a more "Oakley style" sunglasses.

It's 3 color laser DLP. Not sure if that was mentioned in the thread. So it wasn't what I was hoping for. Looks like CEDIA will have more answers.

I just met with our Mitsubishi Rep. First thing is the Reps are under NDA at the moment. Expected deliver of the 65" is end of August, and the larger model in January. Rough price on the 65" is $5K retail.

I'm sorry, but..

http://xs102.xs.to/xs102/06264/batcountry6hz.jpg

Thanx Jim for the info.

Too long of a wait, too much $$, and too little of a technology.
Off to Best Buy to buy a new DLP...

Also the initial batches will go to exclusive dealers (read long time loyal dealers)... so every Tom Dick & Harry dealer will most likely not be able to sell one.

Thanx Jim for the info.

Too long of a wait, too much $$, and too little of a technology.
Off to Best Buy to buy a new DLP...
I'm with you.

Whats the largest LED DLP out there?

Also the initial batches will go to exclusive dealers (read long time loyal dealers)... so every Tom Dick & Harry dealer will most likely not be able to sell one.


Which means either no discounts or small discounts at first. This is going to be a tough sell considering you get get a Panasonic 65" Plasma for the same price or less.

I'm with you.

Whats the largest LED DLP out there?

Sammy 67"

I guess it still remains to be seen how good they'll look.

Better be REAL good....

To believe that these first generation lasers(with the snags that no doubt will appear) are going to sell at 5k for a 65 is really someone at MITS dreaming. I was kinda holding off hoping for better news on price but now I'll be back looking closely at the 67A750 or possibly the 65835. Can MITS spell Beatmax,HD DVD???:rolleyes:

Please take my post with a grain of salt. The rep may not have been entirely forthcoming. I'll know more at CEDIA. I was told if I wanted one, I'd have to pay retail as well. Uh.. no I won't but that's for another day.

Samsung here I come.

It'll need a $3000 rebate like a typical Mitsubishi motor vehicle.

Mitsubishi To Roll Out 3-D DLP Packages

http://www.twice.com/article/CA6576053.html?industryid=23099

Guess i better hope mty Mits 52628 keeps on going like a champ for another year or two.

I was told if I wanted one, I'd have to pay retail as well.

the horror! the horror! :)

seriously, did you see the demo? all the reviews of the demo talk about the colors but not much else, leaving me to suspect that that's all it does well. (even then, some say the reds are over-saturated)

the horror! the horror! :)

seriously, did you see the demo? all the reviews of the demo talk about the colors but not much else, leaving me to suspect that that's all it does well. (even then, some say the reds are over-saturated)

No... They did not have the LaserVue with them. They had everything but the LaserVue and their projectors (different division).

But.... looking at their current generation DLP I can say I could not see RBE effects as much as I tried to look for it. Their LCD's just had the POP you would expect. On one of the sets I saw a SD channel and it looked like crap on the DLP. Also the LOCAL HD channel looked alright, still had background noise. So I wouldn't expect miracles on anything but blu-ray/HD material.

As far as the 3D. Yes it was a neat effect. I think I was more impressed with Samsung's 3D at last years CEDIA. Where it may differ is 3D games since nVidia is a partner. So that may sway people to Mitsubishi. I look forward to comparing the 2 technologies from both Samsung & Mitsubishi. Also the 3D is only for DLP Mitsubishi TVs.... not LCD. Also there was a 2K premium for a HTPC box for the 3D function.

My 65" Toshiba is getting better and better.

I grabbed it for $1200 in January anticipating I'd only need it until the 73" Laser arrived. Based on all the thoughts in this thread on price, I think I may be holding onto the Toshiba longer than I had planned.

Heck, it puts out a stunning picture anyway, but I really wanted that extra 8" (that's what she said).

Originally posted by john stephens:
Are you sure that Geremany and Japan are the best places to devine market trends?

No, and I even asked the question, where is the market for RPTVs in the same post. From my own observation, American retailers are carrying less RPTVs and pretty much anybody I hear talking about TVs around the office are saying something like "is it a flat panel".

Additionally, the U.S. isn't the only place that exists. The weak dollar along with gas prices and the housing market will certailly effect the trends of disposable income in America. It takes me $1.60 to buy a Euro. I also think Japan would be a good location to define trends in the electronics market. All IMHO.

There doesn't need to be other laser manufacturers. Most buyers don't care about the insides of TVs, they care about how they look, both image quality and (for many at least) the form factor. Lots of people don't even know the difference between projection, LCD flat-panel, and plasma. So all TVs compete with each other.

Once the new manufacturing plants come online to make large LCD flat-panels, Mitsubishi will have all the competition it can handle. So it better get a market share for laser and soon.

Yeah your probably right. Mitsubishi is going to have an impossible time selling this things for much over a 3,999msrp, 3,500 street price I would think.

It takes me $1.60 to buy a Euro.The weak dollar will be factored in when pricing these sets. Mitsubishi is no doubt looking at the dollar's recent 12-year low against the yen (it's down by 5% vs. the yen so far this year), along with the fact that the Fed must continue inflating the money supply to battle the credit crisis. When you make more of something you cheapen its value. That goes for currencies, too. The dollar's recent low value has "contributed to the unwelcome rise in import prices and consumer-price inflation," Fed chairman Ben Bernanke said in a June 3rd speech.

The Mitsubishi trailer was in my town 2 weekends ago. I talked with a man who is head over this southeast region with Mitsubishi. He said NO PRICES had been released to him concerning the laser view.
Here is what he told me and I quote:
Any price floating around concerning the price of the 65" and 73" Laservue is pure speculation. Mitsubishi has not released the price. If I do not know I doubt anyone knows. I was told the end of August.
This man was wearing a Tag that said he was the regional sales manager for the southeast region.

I ask if if the Laservue would compete with the Pioneer Kurio. He paused and said, The Pioneer Kurio is a excellent television. Laservue will be the best Mitsubishi has offered concerning grey scale and black levels. It will be a hard sale for Mitsubushi if our prices are not lower than the Pioneer Kuiro.

This conversation took place 2 weekends ago.

Well that's a little ray of hope--Great blacks/contrast, and possibly priced to beat the Kuro.

I'll wait for more official numbers, but if they're anywhere near that, Samsung has my business.

As I said earlier, I'm still confused as to why Mitsubishi is being so tight lipped about these sets. Given the previous post, they realize the Kuro is the competition. If the Lazervue has something special to offer, other than a larger size, they have every reason to blast the trumpets. Yet they say almost nothing. Really strange.

If they release this set at a high price and only to their preferred dealers, well lets wish them luck. The new Elite Kuro actually went down by $1000, so even given the weak dollar the competion isn't standing still.

Mits needs to give potential customers a reason to wait for this set. Since they aren't, they've got to be losing sales. All I can figure is Mits is struggling with technical issues. Geometry being the number one suspect, given how thin the cabinet is. The other possibilty is price. Is the technology cost such where they have to charge a price that the market won't accept? Regardless, something is causing their silence and history tells us it's probably not something good.

Well that's a little ray of hope--Great blacks/contrast, and possibly priced to beat the Kuro.

I'd still be very surprised if it will have the blacks, viewing angle, and clarity of a Kuro. And while they are goning to be technically wall mountable, they still won't be anywhere near as thin as a Kuro. RP sets offer the ability to get big while remaing affordable, as long as you can accept a few trade-offs. Perhaps the lasers can close the gaps of those trade-offs, but I doubt they will comletely remove them. IMHO, they will need to EASILY beat the Kuro in price. Perhaps they will be good enough to command a premium over current DLP RP displays. If so, they may sell well if priced somewhere between current DLPs and the Kuros. But I expect they'll fail if priced to compete directly with Kuros.

I noticed the absence of Circuit City and Best Buy in regards to Mitsubishi announcements.... you see Fry's, but Fry's is not everywhere.

I stopped by Circuit City and Best Buy and guess what was on clearance? Mitsubishi appears to be on the way out of Circuit City. I didn't even notice a Mitsubishi at Best Buy. If they were there, then it's a bad sign when their sets are not even noticed. I recall Pioneer, Sharp, Panasonic, and Samsung at Best Buy being showcased.

circuit city is just about on the way out of itself, close to bankruptcy or being bought out.

We have Mitsubishis at our Best Buy/Magnolia.

circuit city is just about on the way out of itself, close to bankruptcy or being bought out.

that's too bad. didn't CC buy the good guys? or was it CompUsa? we're down to best buy and fry's.

OTOH, I can't remember what I last bought at an electronic B&M, so I guess I'm part of the problem.

This thread sure has become quiet since the rumor of the 65" releasing at $5k.

You hear that, Mits? That's the sound of nobody being interested in your product because it's way overpriced. Either release some more details or plan on losing a lot more potential customers to Pioneer and Samsung.

Another rumor....
Sony Rep SAYS....70" LCD is going to be around $7000.00
If this is even remotely true, the Mits Lazer better be good. It better be real good. I like Sony TVs. Ive had good luck with them and the pictures are normally dam good. If both sets are in the same ballpark I would take the 70 LCD from Sony.

Another rumor....
Sony Rep SAYS....70" LCD is going to be around $7000.00
If this is even remotely true, the Mits Lazer better be good. It better be real good. I like Sony TVs. Ive had good luck with them and the pictures are normally dam good. If both sets are in the same ballpark I would take the 70 LCD from Sony.
I don't think so. I was quoted $30,000 for the upcoming Sony 70" LCD (not last years) by Magnolia's store in Seattle.

Another rumor....
Sony Rep SAYS....70" LCD is going to be around $7000.00
If this is even remotely true, the Mits Lazer better be good. It better be real good. I like Sony TVs. Ive had good luck with them and the pictures are normally dam good. If both sets are in the same ballpark I would take the 70 LCD from Sony.

I like Sony's as well, right now I have a 46XBR4 in my bedroom. Before that I had a 40XBR1. LCD has it's advantages, but once you've seen the Pioneer Elite 151 you can't go back to LCD black levels at these prices. In fact, unless Sony really pulls a rabbit out of it's hat, I'd be willing to bet the 70XBR2SXRD would have a better picture that this proposed LCD.

Personally, LCD simply has to many problems to blow up much past 50". When the Sony is released check it out, but at least look at the Elite 151. Someone will have to come out with a set as good as that, but larger, to get my money. I've got my fingers crossed the Lazervue is it.

In this and other threads, I notice an almost constant whining sound, a drone, not unlike background hum. it has come to this: the whining now begins even before a product is born; ramps up during introduction, then reaches a crescendo during the life of products.
How I long for the optimistic and proactive "Early Adoptors" of years past. These days, we have too much corp advise from so many folks with few facts. It's as though we think we know more than the folks who work full time at product design and marketing.