Haha, it doesn't matter if it's early adopters, mid-life adopters or post death adopters.... people are always going to complain long and loud about something.

Some people will even complain about complainers. ;)

Darin? The Darin (from tcf)?

Howdy.

What is said about Laser and SSE (it does have a smaller depth)? Better then LED or Lamp?

Another rumor....
Sony Rep SAYS....70" LCD is going to be around $7000.00
If this is even remotely true, the Mits Lazer better be good. It better be real good. I like Sony TVs. Ive had good luck with them and the pictures are normally dam good. If both sets are in the same ballpark I would take the 70 LCD from Sony.

I don’t care if the Sony 70” LCD is $700, I won’t buy one.
Sony LCD’s are the best, but the best in LCD is no where near good enough as far as I am concerned.
Unless the Mitsubishi can outperform a G8 Pioneer I won’t be interested in it either.
Pioneer need a 70” plus model to be in the race, 60” does not cut it.

Darin? The Darin (from tcf)?

Did my sarcasm give me away? ;):D

How are you? :)

LOL, that and the spelling of your name (and location).

Doing great, good to see you around.

(spartanstew)

My daughter and I totally do not agree with that. The new 120Hz are just creepy to watch, the picture (mostly attributed to fast paced movement) is so artificial looking it just totally creeped us out to look at it. They were Demo'ing Blu-Ray 'The Island" on it in the local BB Magnolia speaker demo room. It was at that moment I decided 120Hz definately was utter crap. It was supposed to help resolve the motion issue, but all it did was affect the video quality to look very unrealistic and about as far from film as you could possibly imagine. When there wasn't any real motion to it the picture was very clear/clean, but still had some of the creepy artificial quality to it I was talking about too. I watched two 120Hz and 4 60Hz and the 60Hz actually looked better from a video quality standpoint albeit still having the motion issue with the technology it so despirately is trying to resolve so it can move forward towards its attempt at dominating the market [i.e. aside from black-level, its the other holy-grail they want to overcome].

I still think OLED when perfected to a 60K or more half-life will be the replacement of choice.


When did "The Island" come out on Blu-ray?

When did "The Island" come out on Blu-ray?

Wasn't it out on BD overseas? I know I got an import HD DVD a long time ago.

Ya, you guys are right about the LCD VS Plasma, but I need a 70" I have a 60" now and its ok, but on that wall a 70" would be the ****-for-dolly!!! I also just plain refuse to pay over $7000 for that display. Its my personal limit on a TV
Pen

Ya, you guys are right about the LCD VS Plasma, but I need a 70" I have a 60" now and its ok, but on that wall a 70" would be the ****-for-dolly!!! I also just plain refuse to pay over $7000 for that display. Its my personal limit on a TV
Pen

if the 65" is 5k, the 73" is easily 7k. add tax and ext warranty, and you'll be well over. that is, if you believe the rumors :)

mitsubishi marketing folks must be crazy not to release more information about the laser tv's. I for one am get tired of waiting for specs or pricing on this tv. Im ready to just get a new bulb for my Sammy 6188 and call it a day!

mitsubishi marketing folks must be crazy not to release more information about the laser tv's. I for one am get tired of waiting for specs or pricing on this tv. Im ready to just get a new bulb for my Sammy 6188 and call it a day!

You would think with the Olympics and the start of the NFL coming up, that MITS would want to get these sets out. But no, they just sit back and wait while frustrated potential customers grab Sammy LEDS. By the time they get out, Sony will have the XBR8's out. MITS marketing-What a JOKE!

And it will be a bad joke if they think they can sell those lasers for 5-7k:rolleyes:

If this thing is better than anything out there and 65" costs $3000, I might consider buying it once the price drops another $1K.

If this thing is better than anything out there and 65" costs $3000, I might consider buying it once the price drops another $1K.

Let us know how that works out for you... :rolleyes:

If this thing is better than anything out there and 65" costs $3000, I might consider buying it once the price drops another $1K.

So let me get this straight, your stipulations for purchasing this TV are that it has to be better than anything else out there AND cost $2000 for 65"?! You do realize that if Mitsubishi could somehow pull that off they'd take over about 99% of HDTV sales?

Not sure what drugs you're on, but I'd like some too.;)

So let me get this straight, your stipulations for purchasing this TV are that it has to be better than anything else out there AND cost $2000 for 65"?! You do realize that if Mitsubishi could somehow pull that off they'd take over about 99% of HDTV sales?

Not sure what drugs you're on, but I'd like some too.;)

i would agree, but it would also make us all happy and mits would have to come out with an 82 inch model then lol.


but its looking like $5-7k

So let me get this straight, your stipulations for purchasing this TV are that it has to be better than anything else out there AND cost $2000 for 65"?! You do realize that if Mitsubishi could somehow pull that off they'd take over about 99% of HDTV sales?

No, that's actually what they must to do to hope to have ANY sales. It's an RPTV so if they want $4K or more for this, good luck to them. And even at $3K, without great PQ people will just ignore it and walk over to the plasma section.

I have to agree. Even if the PQ is on par with a good plasma (and I'll believe it when I see it), it's still not nearly as wall mountable. The depth may not be important to everyone, but it is to many. If the PQ is noticeably better than other RP sets, they'll be able to get a premium compared to those. But these aren't going to sell well at plasma prices.

+1

Most flat screens look like ****, but that does not seem to matter to the masses. I think the Laser Vue might be a good alternative to Samsungs LED sets, but that would price them under 3K.

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:



At this time we have no information on the release date nor the pricing for the Laservue.

Nice to see you got a hold of a living breathing person...
I have a feeling they'll be overpriced and only want to reveal this up until the last minute.

I think maybe it might be a good idea if we could stop with all the speculative price talk. At least half the posts in this thread have been about what everyone thinks these tv's will cost, and then about another 25% of the posts are people bashing those other people's opinion's on what people think these set's will cost.

I'm only saying this because I check this forum once every couple of weeks or so. And having to peruse through dozens of constant speculative price talk posts just to found out something, if anything, is new on these sets, has gotten really old.

Hopefully maybe other's can appreciate where I'm coming from on this and it will cease.

Anyways, wasn't the last time there was any really good useful info on these stupid sets right around this year's CES? And then a month or 2 after that. Doesn't seem like there's been a single new tidbit of good, useful info on these thing's

Thanks :)

Amen!!!!

If we don't have some hard information by CEDIA, Sept 4-7, it will be safe to assume Lazervue is DOA. I'm not saying such is the case, i.e. they are DOA, just that if the wall of silence is maintained that long it will be all over.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

I think maybe it might be a good idea if we could stop with all the speculative price talk.

Then perhaps the thread may as well be closed. Since Mits hasn't released many details, pricing or otherwise, there's not much to do BUT speculate.

Yeah, the speculation can get tiresome. I've been watching for news updates on this technology since the initial reports in 2006 i think it was. Every time I see a news article or update posted anywhere, I get really excited. But then I find that there is little more "real" info than the last "update". I guess we'll just have to wait for some more official news with some real details before we know anything solid.

Still though, I am really looking forward to hearing more and can't wait to see one of these with my own eyes to make my own visual judgment. Price judgment will just have to wait until... again... until there is more news.

Speculation is fine.

It's an anticipation thread.

If you don't want to wade through a bunch of posts every couple of weeks, just subscribe to the thread and read one or two posts per day. Takes 30 seconds, not big deal.

Has anyone actually seen this TV perform? If so, how is the picture?

Jack

If we don't have some hard information by CEDIA, Sept 4-7, it will be safe to assume Lazervue is DOA. I'm not saying such is the case, i.e. they are DOA, just that if the the wall of silence is maintained that long it will be all over.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

What do you think the up side of giving folks like we, early information. it appears that, all over, these days, any any information given will be used against a firm; much like it is when one gives information to the Police. We have set ourselves up quite skillfully as fearsome adversaries. Not as partners/stakeholders. If the price is low there will be thousands of sceptics who believe the performance will be lacking. If the price is high, there will be the DOA talk. Strictly speaking, I think in these times, many firms would be quite happy to bypass this early adopter crowd, altogether.

What do you think the up side of giving folks like we, early information. it appears that, all over, these days, any any information given will be used against a firm; much like it is when one gives information to the Police. We have set ourselves up quite skillfully as fearsome adversaries. Not as partners/stakeholders. If the price is low there will be thousands of sceptics who believe the performance will be lacking. If the price is high, there will be the DOA talk. Strictly speaking, I think in these times, many firms would be quite happy to bypass this early adopter crowd, altogether.

The problem for MITS is that the early adopter crowd may be the ONLY crowd they get. With the Sammy LEDS a smashing success and some larger model LCD's coming out, plasma prices down, there might not be any crowd at all for Laservue. Especially if it is priced in the stratosphere without a huge Pq over plasma/lcd.

If we don't have some hard information by CEDIA, Sept 4-7, it will be safe to assume Lazervue is DOA. I'm not saying such is the case, i.e. they are DOA, just that if the the wall of silence is maintained that long it will be all over.

Thats my story and I'm stickin to it.

That actually could become a reality. For those that followed the thin form factor gen 3 SXRD nearly a year ago was killed within less than 30 days of it's planned release that was posted on SonyStyle all the while insisting it was coming to market.

In the end they decided to kill it and convert the line to LCD production as they take half the number of parts and laborers to build than an SXRD ---production of LCD FP's is far more automated than RPTV's. Despite Pre-orders and demand posted on this Forum Sony killed it in favor of LCD.

Yes, this is speculation but Sony did the exact thing nearly a year ago after insiting their next gen 70" SXRD was coming to market - most of Sony profit margin is the result of Bravia LCD Lines while PS3 has killed Sony to the tune of about 3 billion in losses the past few years - Sony could not afford another loser like the PS3 (financially) as far as losses and Mits may come under the same pressure as prices keep dropping . . . along with profits as Consumer expendable income gets fragmented and less available for higher end panels in the current market.

I'm rooting that they can pull it off as it may be the last chance for microdisplays and something special but their silence and no public promotion makes no sense as it's letting the enthusiasm wane big time. ;)

Yes, this is speculation but Sony did the exact thing nearly a year ago after insiting their next gen 70" SXRD was coming to market

Arrgh. don't remind me. I waited almost a year for that TV and the whole time I could have been watching HD on something else.

Good Plasma’s stop at 60”, they are not even in the race for people who want a 70” plus display. If Pioneer can come up with a 70” plus Kuro for $7k or less Mitsubishi would have some competition, until then they don’t as far as I am concerned.

Most owners of flat panels do not wall mount them.

...their silence and no public promotion makes no sense as it's letting the enthusiasm wane big time...

That may be happening here but since 99% of the potential buying public doesn't read these forums and probably has never heard of Lazervue I doubt that that Mitsubishi is losing much sleep over our impatience.

The deadline for them is when next generation large-sized LCD flat-panels start arriving from the next generation plants. The hype is that these plants will provide lower cost and better contrast ratios, and also banish such flaws as clouding and banding. We'll see if all this goodness actually arrives, but these plants are not supposed to come on line for two more years, so Mitsubishi has a bit more time. They promised Laservue product this year, and according to my calendar 2008 is only half over, so we can exhale.

Mitsubishi , Sony , Pioneer , Samsung , etc. have quality personel working for them. Every company wants to make money. Mitsu knows theres a market for larger TVs but in order to sell well the consumer has to be able to walk into bestbuy and right off the bat notice a difference in picture quality. The true " like looking through a window " . They think they have it and thats why they are sticking with it because they know the average consumer ( the ones that dont know anything about calibration or basics ) will see a huge difference side by side and opt for the 65 inch , 73 inch sizes that alot of us want. And the size will still be toned down.

my 2 cents ,

I like my 70 inch jvc and would love to go bigger with out doing a front projector. I had a panasonic 900u when it first came out like 2 years ago projected on a 120 inch screen. The size is the only thing i liked , didnt have pop like the JVC does. or the brightness. I like my TV being bright but with the correct grayscale calibrated.

...I like my 70 inch jvc and would love to go bigger with out doing a front projector. I had a panasonic 900u when it first came out like 2 years ago projected on a 120 inch screen. The size is the only thing i liked , didnt have pop like the JVC does. or the brightness. ...

I feel the same way about my 52 inch 720p D-ILA. Even tho my thinking brain can list the features I know it lacks, my emotional brain still says wow when I turn it on. Even SD looks good. So I can talk myself out of the upgrade urge when it comes - well so far anyway.

The problem for MITS is that the early adopter crowd may be the ONLY crowd they get. With the Sammy LEDS a smashing success and some larger model LCD's coming out, plasma prices down, there might not be any crowd at all for Laservue. Especially if it is priced in the stratosphere without a huge Pq over plasma/lcd.

Please help me here! EVERY review I've read on Samsung's LED DLP RPTV has been dismal. Hot spots, extremely limited off-axis viewing, average black level, poor construction quality, etc. So for people who THINK that new "gee-whiz" technology means a better viewing experience, then "ignorance is truly bliss."

If size is what matters then I'd rather get the new Mits WD-73835 for around $3,500 (I seriously doubt the LazerVue will come in any LESS than that). If the LazerVue is $1000 to $1500 more, I can buy a lot of replacement lamps for that.

This is a 1st Gen product. There is going to be a learning curve on getting it right. AND a PRICING curve on bringing it DOWN. Sony's first 70" SXRD cost $13,000. The last gen ended up selling for less than $5k with demonstrably superior PQ.

I personally would NOT buy the LED solution until it's fixed (if that's possible) and even though I don't mind being an early adopter, I need to be convinced that I will not be paying a premium (which early adopters usually do) for tecnology that will be significantly improved at a LOWER price in less than 10 months. (Remember the iPhone)

Mits will be releasing the Gen 1 lazer WHILE their engineers are perfecting Gen 2 and cooking up Gen 3. If this technology is THAT hot it WILL remain on the market long enough for it to be improved in BOTH price and performance. In the meantime I will get something to get me through the next 12 to 18 months while the bugs are worked out of the LazerVue. And B4 then, if LASER technology is viable, then we can expect some competition (which has a tendency to improve the technology AND the price) for the LazerVue.

JMO

Classico

I don't mind being an early adopter, I need to be convinced that I will not be paying a premium (which early adopters usually do) for tecnology that will be significantly improved at a LOWER price in less than 10 months. (Remember the iPhone)


Ummm, actually you do mind being an early adopter. Buying new gear at a premium that will be improved and at a lower price in the near future is pretty much the definition of early adopter.

Please help me here! EVERY review I've read on Samsung's LED DLP RPTV has been dismal. Hot spots, extremely limited off-axis viewing, average black level, poor construction quality, etc. So for people who THINK that new "gee-whiz" technology means a better viewing experience, then "ignorance is truly bliss."


Little harsh, dude..

Most owners are pretty happy overall with their 750 series, especially the 67", and after a couple of software issues were resolved. And the 67" is available for little more than half the price of the 73" Diamond, so for a "holdover"....

Plus, pro calibrators have been very favorably disposed to the LEDs, once properly calibrated, and the calibrations won't drift like they will on a bulb set.

Anyway, I haven't seen a single professional review of the 750 series...

Got link?...:)

Little harsh, dude..

Most owners are pretty happy overall with their 750 series, especially the 67", and after a couple of software issues were resolved. And the 67" is available for little more than half the price of the 73" Diamond, so for a "holdover"....

Plus, pro calibrators have been very favorably disposed to the LEDs, once properly calibrated, and the calibrations won't drift like they will on a bulb set.

Anyway, I haven't seen a single professional review of the 750 series...

Got link?...:)

Right you are. Too harsh. To address your points, moonhawk less harshly:

I appreciate what a Pro calibrator can do. I understand what FW updates can accomplish and fix. BUT there IS a REAL problem with off axis viewing in MOST RPTVs. And it appears that the Samsung LED sets MUST have a specially designed screen to amplify the LED light. In doing this you get tremendous drop-off when sitting even a little off-axis. With the Mits "bulb" units this is not as acute a problem. One assumes that with the LazerVue it might be almost eliminated (one can only hope)

You are also correct that there are no expert reviews of the 750--BUT the fundamental technology is still the same. If Samsung has fixed these issues related to physics, mechanics and refraction, no one has come forward to sing their praises--at least in the professional press.

The Mits will come under similar scrutiny and will for sure have their share of unwelcome anomalies. The Samsung 750 series that I have seen have not impressed. But in a big box store what does?

The url below details some of LED's weaknesses--at least as Sammy has built them. There are some monumental hurdles to overcome--even at 1/2 the price AND about 15% less screen area. (than the 73" Mits)

http://hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index1.html

a little less harsh
Classico

LED illuminated RPTV’s seem to be aimed at reducing cost and improving profitability rather then improving real performance. No way a LED driven model will outperform a three chip lamp driven model.
I hope the Laser Mitsubishi does not turn out to be yet another example of price over performance in RPTV’s. I want uncompromised PERFORMANCE not CHEAP.

The only way to get a seriously high quality rear projection setup is to buy a high end front projector and quality rear projection screen and build your own, manufactured just are not interested in “high end” products when it comes to rear projection and as prices fall the situation will only get worse.

You are also correct that there are no expert reviews of the 750--BUT the fundamental technology is still the same. If Samsung has fixed these issues related to physics, mechanics and refraction, no one has come forward to sing their praises--at least in the professional press.

LOL, well yeah, since you haven't seen any professional reviews of the second gen sets, you aren't going to see any proffesional comments on whether or not anything has been fixed.

LED illuminated RPTV’s seem to be aimed at reducing cost and improving profitability rather then improving real performance. No way a LED driven model will outperform a three chip lamp driven model.

Not sure why you're throwing in chip count when comparing lamp technologies (although LED does reduce the benefit of 3 chip setups). But there's absolutey no reason why LED can't outperform lamp based systems, given a little time to mature. Same thing with Laser.

a little less harsh
Classico

Much better! My "harshness hackles" are lying flat now. :D

Still, there are a great many very happy 750 owners, for whom probably the off axis situation is not an issue--as it is not for me.

if you add the cost of a pro calibration to the cost of the set, you still have a tremendous "bang for the buck."

That may not be what you are looking for, and that's fine. I'm personally still on the fence, and hoping the Laservues are "all that." But I haven't seen another technology, LCD, Plasma, whatever, that comes close to the value of a well adjusted DLP, LED or bulb, if the limitations you mention are not an issue.

I have issues with plasmas, LCDs, and bulb based sets that far outwiegh viewing angles--Size and price being prominent among them, but also image quality, reflections, burn-in, low refresh rates, power consumption, heat, noise,and SIZE.

If the Laservues are not that great, and somewhat affordable, (or don't come out at all) I'm going with the HL67A750.

LOL, well yeah, since you haven't seen any professional reviews of the second gen sets,...

Actually third gen, I believe... :)

...I have issues with plasmas, LCDs, and bulb based sets that far outwiegh viewing angles--Size and price being prominent among them, but also image quality, reflections, burn-in, low refresh rates, power consumption, heat, noise,and SIZE...

My feelings exactly. So many participants here seem to be on an endless search for the defect-free display technology. I occasionally read the threads in the "high-end ($20000+)" part of the AVS forum and guess what, even there perfection is not to be had.

Forget what wise person said "happiness is not having what you want but wanting what you have". That's why I'm content to enjoy my D-ILA - well for the moment anyway.

Not sure why you're throwing in chip count when comparing lamp technologies (although LED does reduce the benefit of 3 chip setups). But there's absolutey no reason why LED can't outperform lamp based systems, given a little time to mature. Same thing with Laser.

LED lighting gets around the need for a color wheel with DLP displays which probably saves cost and mechanical complexity, 3 chips work better but cost more so dont get a look in.
No LED based RPTV has yet managed to equal the performance of the better lamp based units, maybe one day they will but why bother, lamps work fine.
Laser has more potential then LED, but it is yet to be seen if the Mitsubishi implementation provides the benefits that are required to be competitive.

3 chips work better
Given a light source that doesn't require a wheel, I'm not convinced that holds true.

why bother, lamps work fine.
With that kind of attitude, we'd never get any new innovations. ;) LEDs don't burn out (relatively speaking), can switch quickly, are more energy efficient (and therefore put out less heat), offer consistent color/output over time, can offer pure color without filtering, and of course, eliminate the need for a color wheel. I agree that there is certainly room for improvement. I agree there's room for improvement in current implementations, but I think the benefits are well worth the effort. Those benefits can apply to laser too. They just have to perfect the technology, and make it cost effective.

...LEDs don't burn out (relatively speaking), can switch quickly, are more energy efficient (and therefore put out less heat), offer consistent color/output over time, can offer pure color without filtering, and of course, eliminate the need for a color wheel. I agree that there is certainly room for improvement. ...

In fact there was a very interesting new development called a polarized LED. It was described in Laser Focus World. I tried to make a link but the url was too long. But if you go there you can do a search.

Check out what home theatre mag had to say about sammy led

http://www.hometheatermag.com/lcds/208hdface/index1.html

"LEDs offer a host of potential benefits; but for now, the trade-off for not replacing a bulb seems to be at the expense of overall picture quality. Samsung makes a lot of great-looking displays. This isn't one of them."

It doesn't sound good at all, every set I have seen the whites have a blue to them and yes I have tried all the settings to change it.

That review is for the HL-T6187S.

That review is for the HL-T6187S.

Which isn't part of their current model line up. Last year's model maybe?

HL-T6187S is the 07 model, replaced by the 61A750.

I have a 6187s, and I totally disagree with that review as do hundreds of others on Amazon. For example they mention the brightness. I have my brightness at like 40%, cranked up any higher and my retinas would bleed. IMO the set is capable of being too bright on many settings.

Read the HL61A750 owners thread, there are a lot of praises. The biggest beef with the set is the geometry issues but again (as it was mentioned here) that trade-off with most DLP RPTV.

Back on topic, I think you will see the same kinds of issues when Mitsu moves from the lamp to laser as Samsung did moving from lamp to LED, wait for the 2nd gen version and you will be set. It's a great concept and if the picture is the same quality as a plasma, the power saving features and weight will be more than enough to convince buyers as long as the price is better. I don't have any hard data but the plasma is the highest power draw of the 3 technologies (DLP, LCD, Plasma) right?

Also, if they haven't announced any details yet as far as price, etc, it usually means one of two things (neither is good).

1) The technology has not been perfected yet and they are more expensive to make or buggy or have a high failure rate.

2) They are going in a different direction and this won't even get off the ground (possibly because of the first).

Read the HL61A750 owners thread, there are a lot of praises. The biggest beef with the set is the geometry issues but again (as it was mentioned here) that trade-off with most DLP RPTV.

Back on topic, I think you will see the same kinds of issues when Mitsu moves from the lamp to laser as Samsung did moving from lamp to LED, wait for the 2nd gen version and you will be set. It's a great concept and if the picture is the same quality as a plasma, the power saving features and weight will be more than enough to convince buyers as long as the price is better. I don't have any hard data but the plasma is the highest power draw of the 3 technologies (DLP, LCD, Plasma) right?

Also, if they haven't announced any details yet as far as price, etc, it usually means one of two things (neither is good).

1) The technology has not been perfected yet and they are more expensive to make or buggy or have a high failure rate.

2) They are going in a different direction and this won't even get off the ground (possibly because of the first).

while understandable

they could also be doing this as a marketing tactic. not mentioning price on purpose and slowy intoduce info on the set to make all av lovers interested and want the set
then at last moment hit them with the sticker price. the most hardcore buyers wont car since they have the money and are fully set on laservue

but im like you, im waiting to see , depends on price i may hold out til the 2nd gen or depends on how much led improves i may get a 3rd gen led set next spring. id guess they can get enough light to do 72 inches by 09

That review is for the HL-T6187S.

This is how the deniers always work-- Quote a bad review of a different set.:rolleyes:

Still no reviews of the new 750s--and they have some significant changes. But the deniers don't want you to know that. They just want you to believe that nothing has changed, that their particular pet peeve will always be an issue.

Makes my hair hurt--(Oh wait...I don't have any hair....:()

:D

they could also be doing this as a marketing tactic. not mentioning price on purpose and slowy intoduce info on the set

So when are they going to start slowly introducing info? ;)

HL-T6187S is the 07 model, replaced by the 61A750.

I have a 6187s, and I totally disagree with that review as do hundreds of others on Amazon. For example they mention the brightness. I have my brightness at like 40%, cranked up any higher and my retinas would bleed. IMO the set is capable of being too bright on many settings.

The 2008 Samsung LED DLPs has 2x the light output over last year models as well.

So much for brightness, what’s the black level like, if it’s not as good as the best lamp based RPTV’s LED is a step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.
The Laser idea has a lot more potential.

One reason for the delay was likely that the laser manufacturer needed to first pass specific milestones. Mitsubishi has not publicly stated the name of the laser manufacturer for this product but it is suspected to be QPC Lasers Inc.
http://www.qpclasers.com/2008_7-7.html
Now that they have completed the “Technology Development Phase” we may see more announcements from Mitsubishi.

So much for brightness, what’s the black level like, if it’s not as good as the best lamp based RPTV’s LED is a step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.
The Laser idea has a lot more potential.

Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. A light source in itself doesn't have better or worse black levels. In fact, technically, a set with LED lighting can achieve better black levels, because the fast switching of LEDs allows a process similar to a dynamic iris to be implemented, without the negative effects of an iris. Unfortunately, however, Samsung has not released their LED sets with the latest Darkchip4 DLP engine. It provides better contrast than the Darkchip3, which is used in Samsungs current sets. Mitsubishi is using the higher contrast chip in conjunction with conventional bulbs, while Samsung is using the older chip in conjunction with newer light technology.

Just curious, what specifically makes you think laser has more potential? Very little detail about how they are implemented has been released.

Laser will need to do a few things better then DLP to have a chance:

First, no SSE or severely reduced SSE.
Combine that with a need for a larger viewing angle with no "sweet spots".
Have a long lifespan, no geometry issues, and a solid cabinet build.
Finally, a price lower then $3-5000.

Otherwise IMO the next generation Samsung 67" LED DLP with Darkchip 4 will be a superior TV based on price alone. Assuming this happens with the 09 models which I haven't heard a thing about yet, seeing how the 08 just came out recently.

Laser will need to do a few things better then DLP to have a chance...

You do realize that the Laservue IS a DLP, right? It's just a change in light source, like LED sets. Considering the similarities between LEDs and lasers, they should be similar. Hopefully the Mits lasers are more powerful, and can use lower gain screens. Their marketing material suggests so, anyway.

So much for brightness, what’s the black level like, if it’s not as good as the best lamp based RPTV’s LED is a step in the wrong direction as far as I am concerned.
The Laser idea has a lot more potential.

While who's to say what LED can eventually be made to do, so far their black levels aren't anything to write home about. The only problem with a good lamp based DLP set, like my Samsung 6188, is RBE, some minor geometry issues, viewing angle and it's black level. Ok, and bulb replacement. So far LED has really only solved RBE and bulb replacement. In my case, the only material weakness that is driving my upgradeitus is black level.

The promotion of Laservue, such as it has been, caught my eye only because it's black level was prominent in what little information Mits has released. The fact that they were willing to talk about black levels at all AND demo a pre-production set next to a Pioneer Kuro, well all I can say is they got my attention. Black levels have been the big weakness of fixed pixel displays from day one. I can only speculate that Mits doesn't think LED is the answer.

What is so frustrating is they know what the problem is, they are willing to demo a prototype against what is arguably the current king of the hill, they promise the holy grail and then they sit on their hands. While I don't like being in limbo, I can live with my charcol grey blacks and hope the Mits is the answer until CEDIA. If nothing by then, I'll look for a deal on an Elite 151. I'd rather have a larger, lighter and more energy efficient set, with no burn in, but my trigger finger is starting to itch.

Again, you're comparing apples and oranges. A light source in itself doesn't have better or worse black levels. In fact, technically, a set with LED lighting can achieve better black levels, because the fast switching of LEDs allows a process similar to a dynamic iris to be implemented, without the negative effects of an iris.

DLP (Dithered Light Producers as I call them :D) are all ready less then ideal IMHO due to their pulse width modulated drive. Adding pulse width modulated drive to the LED backlight may work like a iris but adds even more high frequency flicker into the system.
What’s wrong with an iris anyway, seems to work just fine when well implemented.
Replacing a lamp every now and then is also a non issue as far a I am concerned, so for me LED based sets offer nothing of value at this time, performance is inferior to the best lamp based RPTV’s. Obviously there is potential for improvement (provided RPTV’s survive long enough), but theoretical future performance of LED illuminated RPTV’s is one thing, real world performance we can use today is what matters to me, and so far LED based sets don’t cut it.


Unfortunately, however, Samsung has not released their LED sets with the latest Darkchip4 DLP engine. It provides better contrast than the Darkchip3, which is used in Samsungs current sets. Mitsubishi is using the higher contrast chip in conjunction with conventional bulbs, while Samsung is using the older chip in conjunction with newer light technology.

Unfortunately both are compromised, why cant we get a high end three chip DLP or LCoS projector in a box with dynamic LED lighting? Probably because it would cost serious money and virtually know one would buy it.


Just curious, what specifically makes you think laser has more potential? Very little detail about how they are implemented has been released.

It is conceivable that lasers could be used in a line scanning system over the DLP chip surface with modulated output, this would allow per pixel light control and potentially amazing contrast, which will be needed to compete with future Plasma technology.
If all Mitsubishi are doing is using lasers as a general light source, like the current lamp or LED illuminated systems, they really don’t have much of an advantage, as the light source can only be dimmed as a whole, not on a per pixel basis.

Adding pulse width modulated drive to the LED backlight may work like a iris but adds even more high frequency flicker into the system.
Perhaps some are sensitive to that. I've not noticed anything negative attributable to it, but I've not lived with one. Only viewed in stores.
What’s wrong with an iris anyway, seems to work just fine when well implemented.
But based on how many people try to disable it, apparently that's not very often. ;) But as far as what's wrong... they simply can't respond very fast.

It is conceivable that lasers could be used in a line scanning system over the DLP chip surface with modulated output, this would allow per pixel light control and potentially amazing contrast, which will be needed to compete with future Plasma technology.
Yes, it will be interesting to see how it's implemented. But I would guess it's going to essentially be like LED sets with a slightly different light source. If they are able to accurately scan the laser to the point of per-pixel accuracy on a DLP chip, why even use the chip? Why not just scan directly on the screen?
If all Mitsubishi are doing is using lasers as a general light source, like the current lamp or LED illuminated systems, they really don’t have much of an advantage
Agreed. Unless it has significantly greater light output then LED. Which their viewing angle claims suggest.

I am upgrading to HDTV with new components all throughout (new TV, new A/V receiver, new speakers etc). I am trying to figure out the difference between the wd-73833 and the wd-73835? Does anyone know the difference between these 2 models? I am leaning towards the 835 because it is the newer of the 2 models. Any thoughts 1 way or another?
Thanks...

In addition to my earlier post, does anyone have any basic input into ordering a 73" TV thru an online retailer. The prices I have recently seen are so much cheaper when ordering online. I am just concerned about returning a defective unit, the care that the TV will get in handling and shipping over a long distance etc. Anyone have any qualms or opinions regarding this type of ordering?

I am upgrading to HDTV with new components all throughout (new TV, new A/V receiver, new speakers etc). I am trying to figure out the difference between the wd-73833 and the wd-73835? Does anyone know the difference between these 2 models? I am leaning towards the 835 because it is the newer of the 2 models. Any thoughts 1 way or another?
Thanks...

In addition to my earlier post, does anyone have any basic input into ordering a 73" TV thru an online retailer. The prices I have recently seen are so much cheaper when ordering online. I am just concerned about returning a defective unit, the care that the TV will get in handling and shipping over a long distance etc. Anyone have any qualms or opinions regarding this type of ordering?
You're in the wrong thread. Look in the Rear Projection forum and you'll find threads for the 835 series. This is the thread about the Laser DLP's that are expected on the market later this year.

The short answer to your first question is that the 833 series has Darkchip 3, while the 835 has Darkchip 4 - that's going to be the biggest difference and people have been reporting that it's a non-trivial improvement. As to ordering online, you obviously have to be willing to risk having more hassle if there's a problem with the TV - that's the price you pay for a better price.

You're in the wrong thread. Look in the Rear Projection forum and you'll find threads for the 835 series. This is the thread about the Laser DLP's that are expected on the market later this year.

The short answer to your first question is that the 833 series has Darkchip 3, while the 835 has Darkchip 4 - that's going to be the biggest difference and people have been reporting that it's a non-trivial improvement. As to ordering online, you obviously have to be willing to risk having more hassle if there's a problem with the TV - that's the price you pay for a better price.


Actually there's been quite a bit positive praise over the difference between the DC3 and the DC4 chip. Many people are saying it's definitely much more worth it to go with this year's models. FWIW.

This Laser set fiasco reminds me of the last great SXRD set.

It didn't happen--I'm beginning to think that laser won't happen either.

This Laser set fiasco reminds me of the last great SXRD set....

What fiasco? Mitsubishi promised product this year. The year is only half over. I'm reminded of the famous quote from Oscar Wilde near the end of his life: "I've had lots of problems in my life, 95% of which never happened".

The web site still says "Q3" for the 65" set, so, by end-September?

Actually there's been quite a bit positive praise over the difference between the DC3 and the DC4 chip. Many people are saying it's definitely much more worth it to go with this year's models. FWIW.

Just in case you missed it - gsr wrote DC4 chip was a non-trivial improvement over the DC3.

You're in the wrong thread. Look in the Rear Projection forum and you'll find threads for the 835 series. This is the thread about the Laser DLP's that are expected on the market later this year.

Sorry about that. Thanks for the reply. I'll move my comments to the appropriate forum.

Just in case you missed it - gsr wrote DC4 chip was a non-trivial improvement over the DC3.
Thanks - I thought my point was clear enough :D.

They said Q3 for the 65" and guess what...it's Q3 and there isn't even any information regarding specs or pricing out. Do they expect to release information on the set and then release the set the following week? I have been crossing my fingers for the sets since they were first announced and was hoping they would come out last christmas like they originally they said they were. With the lack of info out and their deadline is closing quickly to have it on shelves, I am starting to doubt the reality of it happening.

I have emailed Mitsubishi a few times regarding the lack of info and so forth and got the same canned response as the person a few posts up about no new information is available.

Here's to hoping the set will be amazing though.

Originally posted by davegow:
What fiasco? Mitsubishi promised product this year. The year is only half over.

It's very much like the SXRD. They have actually promised a 65" Q3 2008 and there is no info. Sony had the SXRD on there website. They even had a price and specs, but it was a no show.

I have been on a bit of a hiatus, but I have updated the first page a bit with the newest info I saw.

If anyone thinks something should be added, please PM me.

Maybe its time to buy he Mits Diamond 65 or 73 inch !

I talked to a dealer today and he told me that the 65" would be $10,000 for the first year and next year they would come down to $5,000 and the year after that they would be around $3,000

Hah, if thats true the technology is dead in the water.

So I will consider getting one in late 2010. :D

I talked to a dealer today and he told me that the 65" would be $10,000 for the first year and next year they would come down to $5,000 and the year after that they would be around $3,000

Welcome to the forum.

Would you mind telling us which dealer this is so someone else can verify it? Thanks.

Welcome to the forum.

Would you mind telling us which dealer this is so someone else can verify it? Thanks.


a magical dealer

Welcome to the forum.

Would you mind telling us which dealer this is so someone else can verify it? Thanks.

The Dealer is Electronics World (352) 332-5608

The website is http://www.electronics-world.net/ out of gainesville florida. I haven't called them, but according to their website they carry Mitsubishi products. I seriously doubt it will be 10k for a 65" though.

I don't know. Looking at their website, I can see where THEY might charge that much for it. ;-) Looks like a high end company that likes to sell stuff at a 300% markup to people who have more money than sense.

From reports, though, they are supposed to be in line with current LCD/Plasma prices, but even that will kill them. Folks are into this "Flat" kick and if they don't price them similar to current DLP prices, they are making a BIG mistake. Plus the laser tech is supposedly cheaper to make/manufacture. Guess we'll see.

Maybe its time to buy he Mits Diamond 65 or 73 inch !

I was in Best Buy this past weekend and they had the 73833 on clearance for $2400.

I almost bought that TV back in January for $4200.

So did you buy it?

No, I bought the Toshiba 65" in January for $1200.

It'll tide me over until I move to laser.

10K???:rolleyes: DOA!!!

I talked to a dealer today and he told me that the 65" would be $10,000 for the first year and next year they would come down to $5,000 and the year after that they would be around $3,000
http://xs229.xs.to/xs229/08292/suicide4301.jpg

That picture is awesome, hah! Hanging themselves.

$10k for a 65-inch model? I don't think so. I'm pretty happy with my Pioneer 6020 now and it was only 40% of that price. Even if the picture were better on the Mits Laser I can't imagine spending that kind of $ on a TV that is only 5" larger and an RPTV on top of that. Either that info is not accurate at all or Mits has lost their mind! :rolleyes:

It will never be 10,000 dollars because Mitsu said that it will compete with plasma prices!!! I cant believe some would believe that, lol. And i dont know of any plasma in the 65 inch range thats 10,000.

$10k launch price wouldn't surprise me at all. Anything that new and great has the potential to sell to rich cats for that price for a while, then they will lower it to retail prices. And when they said priced like similar flat-panel displays, they could mean similar high-end models.

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html
"Though pricing isn't announced, I was told that you won't see the Laser TVs at your Best Buys and Circuit Citys. Rather, they'll only be available through high-end retailers."

you won't see the Laser TVs at your Best Buys and Circuit Citys. Rather, they'll only be available through high-end retailers.

Which might suggest they can't yet produce them in high volumes. Which probably also suggests high prices. I'm still skeptical of these being able to compete directly with Plasma.

I too do not want to see these at high prices either, but I do recall how the very first Mitsubishi DLP set was a 65" model with an ~$11k MSRP, and I bought a floor model for $8K. The choice at the time was the demo 65" DLP or the new 73" CRT for the same $8k.

Whatever the prices, it'd be interesting to know if the Lasrevue's vaunted 3D capabilities will work the the SMPTE's new initiative to develop home-video 3D standards:

(I haven't posted enough to be allowed to post URLs, but the press release is at the Hollywood Reporter site.)

"According to the SMPTE plan, the society will first establish an industry task force to define the parameters of a mastering standard for 3-D content distributed via broadcast, cable, satellite, packaged media and the Internet, and played-out on televisions, computer screens and other tethered displays. In six months, the 3-D Home Display Formats Task Force will produce a report that defines the issues and challenges, minimum standards, and evaluation criteria.

The society will then form a standards committee, which will use the report as a working document for standards setting efforts to follow. This is a complex process that takes time, and Aylsworth -- who is vp, technology at Warner Brothers Technical Operations -- estimated that the standard is at least a year and a half away."

Well, I hope that price is wrong, but I got tired of waiting and bought the 67" Sammy LED DLP. Pd about $2050 for it and I love it, And nothing will touch it for size/features/image for the price.

Good luck to all of you guys holding out. I'm keeping an eye on this thread, because I do hope this tech will work.

Later :)

http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html
"Though pricing isn't announced, I was told that you won't see the Laser TVs at your Best Buys and Circuit Citys. Rather, they'll only be available through high-end retailers."[/QUOTE]

Circuit City probably will NOT get the LaserVue at all because they DO NOT carry the Mits "Diamond" Line. Best Buy stores with Magnolia HT units say they WILL get that line, but there is NO firm date on WHEN. BB is too important a customer to be left out of the initial release. They will get a few units and along with the high-end retailers will HOLD the price becaue of the initial limited supply.

It seems foolish for Mits to design a new technology and then price themselves out of the market. No doubt they will enter at the HIGH end simply because initial production will be limited (supply & demand). But as they ramp up production, economies of scale will lower their production costs and widen their market.

Mits is in this business to make money and they have shown just how saavy their marketing and skilled their engineering has been in the past. The real question is--just how good will this unit be? Unfortunately I do not believe expert reviews will be seen for some time, and being able to see one under ideal conditions (where you can set it up properly) might be rare. HOWEVER, if Mits sees that they have a REAL winner on their hands, they will see to it that FRIENDLIES get a unit to review right away--especially if they see that getting such positive press will help them hold the line on HIGH prices OR, if their production is up, to sell MORE units.

I am convinced that Mits believes that their LaserVue will command a premium of $500 to $1,000 OVER their existing line. I have no doubt that they WILL get that--in the beginning, simply because of the WOW factor inherent in the NEW laser technology. And if it performs at or near the level of the Kuros--hold on to your wallets.

The buzz on this unit will drive prospective buyers into the stores that carry it. (BB & Mits know that) Buyers priced out of the LaserVue will then audition the lower cost Mits units and many will "settle" for less, but still get the SIZE they are looking for. (a WIN WIN for everyone) AND the Samsung LED may just get some of the crumbs left on the table. (but for me the Samsung simply doesn't show as well as the Mits units--but that's just me)

Of course all this conjecture (and that's all it is) depends on the engineering wizards at Mits producing an HDTV that will "blow your sox off". I for one would NOT bet against them.

Classico

I agree that that quote on prices from that dealer is funny money. No manufacturer would price an RPTV there. RPTVs are 'economy' sets for those who can't afford an LCD or Plasma, that's the thinking of the market.

I can't imagine any of the big TV companies putting out a new luxury product that wasn't three inches thick or less.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but the laser technology is not owned by Mitsubishi, they are licensing it from Necsel. As such any other manny could adopt it, just like DLP. So let's hope some do.

http://www.necsel.com/

It's unfortunate that the market considers RPTVs on their way out, as it will make the adoption of this killer, cheap and very green technology unlikely.

I for one am looking forward to my next (and probably last) 70" RPTV that will hopefully live long enough until a better technology is 70+ inches, gorgeous and affordable. I'm hoping the Laservue will fit the bill.

My more than 5 years old 60 inch Sony grand wega III LCD RPTV needs retirement for me to keep my street cred ;)

I don't know if this has been discussed, but the laser technology is not owned by Mitsubishi, they are licensing it from Necsel. As such any other manny could adopt it, just like DLP. So let's hope some do.

http://www.necsel.com/



Necsel is not the only one with laser technology either. BUT, having access to that technology does NOT mean that just anyone can produce a TV. As you pointed out DLP is also available and just look at the varying quality coming from the different manufacturers. It will take considerable expertise and engineering to bring a credible laser product to market. Just managing the "black" issue or color saturation issue with this new technology will put the brakes to a lot of imitators. Mits has been working on this project for over 2 years now. It can't be that simple. And it won't be that cheap--at least not at first.

Classico

I agree that that quote on prices from that dealer is funny money. No manufacturer would price an RPTV there. RPTVs are 'economy' sets for those who can't afford an LCD or Plasma, that's the thinking of the market.

I can't imagine any of the big TV companies putting out a new luxury product that wasn't three inches thick or less.

I don't know if this has been discussed, but the laser technology is not owned by Mitsubishi, they are licensing it from Necsel. As such any other manny could adopt it, just like DLP. So let's hope some do.

http://www.necsel.com/

It's unfortunate that the market considers RPTVs on their way out, as it will make the adoption of this killer, cheap and very green technology unlikely.

I for one am looking forward to my next (and probably last) 70" RPTV that will hopefully live long enough until a better technology is 70+ inches, gorgeous and affordable. I'm hoping the Laservue will fit the bill.

My more than 5 years old 60 inch Sony grand wega III LCD RPTV needs retirement for me to keep my street cred ;)



actually mits themselves said they arent licensing the lasers from nescel, but making them in house.

I live in CT , and i stopped into Tweeter ETC. to see if they had the pioneer 05FD bluray player ( 3 more weeks on that ) . But i asked about laser and the sales guys said that they couldnt wait to see it. They are getting some 65 inch models MID AUG. No price , and said that the rep said Black Levels to make Pioneer Jelous!!!!! Tweeter is a Pioneer and Mitsu Diamond dealer. He checked his bulletin ( something on his pc ) and he said the 73 is to follow Nov. , Dec.

Mid Aug is soooooooooooooo close , this is what we've been waiting for!!!!

I live in CT , and i stopped into Tweeter ETC. to see if they had the pioneer 05FD bluray player ( 3 more weeks on that ) . But i asked about laser and the sales guys said that they couldnt wait to see it. They are getting some 65 inch models MID AUG. No price , and said that the rep said Black Levels to make Pioneer Jelous!!!!! Tweeter is a Pioneer and Mitsu Diamond dealer. He checked his bulletin ( something on his pc ) and he said the 73 is to follow Nov. , Dec.

Mid Aug is soooooooooooooo close , this is what we've been waiting for!!!!

I wouldn't get too excited. Mid-Aug isn't very far away and there's still no info. And black levels to make Pioneer jealous? I dunno about that. I have a 9G and there's not much room to go to hit perfection. In a room with ambient light possibly, but in a darkened room it's going to have to have perfect blacks to be able to tell much of a difference though. We'll find out soon enough if it does show up mid-Aug but it seems to me that if it were that close we'd have some info already.

But it's rear projection. So even if the picture quality exceeds Kuro, it would do so only for viewers in a narrow range of horizontal and vertical viewing angles. I guess this would be fine for a decent percentage of prospective purchasers who have all of their seating directly in front of the screen. But in my family room, 2-3 viewers on the couch in front of the TV would have stunning Kuro+ picture quality, while everyone else around the perimeter would be watching an increasingly dim, washed out picture. And with the kitchen open to the family room from the side, no watching TV while cooking or doing dishes, the angle would be too great.

IMO viewing angle is the great shortcoming of rear pro (the cabinet depth is not a big concern for me). Any chance that Mits has found a way to address this shortcoming with LaserVue?

But it's rear projection. So even if the picture quality exceeds Kuro, it would do so only for viewers in a narrow range of horizontal and vertical viewing angles....

I'm also concerned about this, and it's your choice how much value you put on it. But many people on this forum don't find the view angle of RPTVs all that much of a problem. It's important not to inflate our personal tastes into universal values.

There's no such thing as a perfect display, and plasma, even the best ones, has generic disadvantages, power consumption being one that will keep rearing its head unless resolved.

But it's rear projection. So even if the picture quality exceeds Kuro, it would do so only for viewers in a narrow range of horizontal and vertical viewing angles. I guess this would be fine for a decent percentage of prospective purchasers who have all of their seating directly in front of the screen. But in my family room, 2-3 viewers on the couch in front of the TV would have stunning Kuro+ picture quality, while everyone else around the perimeter would be watching an increasingly dim, washed out picture. And with the kitchen open to the family room from the side, no watching TV while cooking or doing dishes, the angle would be too great.

IMO viewing angle is the great shortcoming of rear pro (the cabinet depth is not a big concern for me). Any chance that Mits has found a way to address this shortcoming with LaserVue?

Yes, according to Mits, the viewing angle would rival LCDs.

But it's rear projection. So even if the picture quality exceeds Kuro, it would do so only for viewers in a narrow range of horizontal and vertical viewing angles. I guess this would be fine for a decent percentage of prospective purchasers who have all of their seating directly in front of the screen. But in my family room, 2-3 viewers on the couch in front of the TV would have stunning Kuro+ picture quality, while everyone else around the perimeter would be watching an increasingly dim, washed out picture. And with the kitchen open to the family room from the side, no watching TV while cooking or doing dishes, the angle would be too great.

IMO viewing angle is the great shortcoming of rear pro (the cabinet depth is not a big concern for me). Any chance that Mits has found a way to address this shortcoming with LaserVue?

They have said that the viewing angle will be 160 degrees. If you require more than that, you must be viewing in a hall way in the narrow direction.

They have said that the viewing angle will be 160 degrees. If you require more than that, you must be viewing in a hall way in the narrow direction.

Stevie g0t Pwned! :p

Mits Laservue has tough competition from Samsung's new Series 9 LED LCD & SONY's XBR8 LED LCD.

I'm moving in to my new house by Mid Aug & am hoping to narrow my choice between these 3 by then. With todays Samsung press release on their new 2008 LED LCD lineup, all I need now is for SONY & Mits to release & announce their 2008 lineup pricing & availabilty.

Tough choices, all great HDTVs I'm sure, but there can only be 1!

But it's rear projection. So even if the picture quality exceeds Kuro, it would do so only for viewers in a narrow range of horizontal and vertical viewing angles. I guess this would be fine for a decent percentage of prospective purchasers who have all of their seating directly in front of the screen. But in my family room, 2-3 viewers on the couch in front of the TV would have stunning Kuro+ picture quality, while everyone else around the perimeter would be watching an increasingly dim, washed out picture. And with the kitchen open to the family room from the side, no watching TV while cooking or doing dishes, the angle would be too great.

IMO viewing angle is the great shortcoming of rear pro (the cabinet depth is not a big concern for me). Any chance that Mits has found a way to address this shortcoming with LaserVue?

if I'm watching tv from the kitchen, PQ is not going to be my paramount concern. seeing what's going on is mostly what matters, and a 13" tube tv will do me fine.

regardless, I'm skeptical about kuro-like black levels claims. would be great, though. i'm equally skeptical about the 10k msrp.

Yes, according to Mits, the viewing angle would rival LCDs.
They have said that the viewing angle will be 160 degrees.
That's very encouraging, but also quite surprising since I've never witnessed a rear projection TV that even remotely approached those angles. Sure, you can see some sort of image on most DLPs at 160 degrees, but it looks absolutely awful. So do they mean 160 degrees with little or no picture degradation? And if so, has Mitsubishi given any clue as to how they've accomplished these viewing angles? Is it that the brightness of the laser source allows for a lower gain screen?

There's clearly some confusion on this point within the community. I found an engadget article that states "Have no fear: the blacks are black, the brights are bright, and the viewing angle puts DLP to shame." Apparently they don't realize that the LaserVue is DLP, just with a different light source.

Anyway, I've been researching a 58"-65" plasma for purchase this fall. But if Mits has really fixed the rear pro viewing angle issue, has black levels to rival plasma, and DLP-like brightness and anti-glare (our family room has a lot of windows), then LaserVue goes on my short list for sure. I can live with a 10" deep cabinet.

That's very encouraging, but also quite surprising since I've never witnessed a rear projection TV that even remotely approached those angles. Sure, you can see some sort of image on most DLPs at 160 degrees, but it looks absolutely awful. So do they mean 160 degrees with little or no picture degradation? And if so, has Mitsubishi given any clue as to how they've accomplished these viewing angles? Is it that the brightness of the laser source allows for a lower gain screen?

There's clearly some confusion on this point within the community. I found an engadget article that states "Have no fear: the blacks are black, the brights are bright, and the viewing angle puts DLP to shame." Apparently they don't realize that the LaserVue is DLP, just with a different light source.

Anyway, I've been researching a 58"-65" plasma for purchase this fall. But if Mits has really fixed the rear pro viewing angle issue, has black levels to rival plasma, and DLP-like brightness and anti-glare (our family room has a lot of windows), then LaserVue goes on my short list for sure. I can live with a 10" deep cabinet.

Yes, the brightness of the laser allows/requires them to use a lower gain screen. Heretofore, RPTVs have needed a more focused screen for increased brightness.

10k - good luck staying in business.

Well here we are, 1/3 the way thru Q3, & still no peep from Mitsu?? Isn't it highly unusual to have almost no buzz before a supposed technical quantum leap? Where's the marketing types from Mitsu? ust came from CC & the salesguy lambasted DLP in favor of Plas; stating that they had almost no advantage & were on the way out! Never even heard of Laser on the way; & these guys spend all day kibitzing @ HDTV!!!
Whasup with all that?

Well here we are, 1/3 the way thru Q3, & still no peep from Mitsu?? Isn't it highly unusual to have almost no buzz before a supposed technical quantum leap? Where's the marketing types from Mitsu? ust came from CC & the salesguy lambasted DLP in favor of Plas; stating that they had almost no advantage & were on the way out! Never even heard of Laser on the way; & these guys spend all day kibitzing @ HDTV!!!
Whasup with all that?

they wouldnt even sell the laser anyways since CC doesnt sell the diamond line

Well here we are, 1/3 the way thru Q3, & still no peep from Mitsu?? Isn't it highly unusual to have almost no buzz before a supposed technical quantum leap? Where's the marketing types from Mitsu? ust came from CC & the salesguy lambasted DLP in favor of Plas; stating that they had almost no advantage & were on the way out! Never even heard of Laser on the way; & these guys spend all day kibitzing @ HDTV!!!
Whasup with all that?

He's pushing what his manager is telling him to push. Most of those salesman don't know anything about the TVs they're selling. He's pushing plasma because plasma and lcd are the "hot" thing now. As soon as the new "hot" thing comes along, go back and see what their salesmen are pushing. ;-)

10k - good luck staying in business.
I had to quote this one for a good laugh.

Not even considering the fact that some random poster mentions they have an "inside" source that told them the TV was $10K, and someone else believing that.

Do you even realize the size of Mitsubishi Corporation? I bet their board barely even knows they have a TV division in america.
I often suspect they keep it around for north american name branding only.

They have everything from banks to battleships to beer. They have nuclear power plants, oil and natural gas exploration and production, shipping, areospace, steel and mining operations and god only knows what else.
If laser TV fails...I highly doubt they would go out of business.
http://www.mitsubishicorp.com/en/bg/index.html

I had to quote this one for a good laugh.

Not even considering the fact that some random poster mentions they have an "inside" source that told them the TV was $10K, and someone else believing that.

Do you even realize the size of Mitsubishi Corporation? I bet their board barely even knows they have a TV division in america.
I often suspect they keep it around for north american name branding only.

They have everything from banks to battleships to beer. They have nuclear power plants, oil and natural gas exploration and production, shipping, areospace, steel and mining operations and god only knows what else.
If laser TV fails...I highly doubt they would go out of business.
http://www.mitsubishicorp.com/en/bg/index.html

Nice to see some of the lack of modesty on this thread called to task.

Hi friends,
here is some infomation i found, These are the two major raps about Mitsubishi’s forthcoming LaserVue laser tv. A press release from June provided us with a little more information, but not enough for the fans who have been following the development of laser television for several years.



Screen Sizes: 65-inch models (L65A90) under the Diamond Line will ship to retailers in the third quarter of this year, and the 73-inch model (L73A90) to follow by Christmas.

Thickness: approximately 10 inches deep, designed for both floor stand and wall-mount applications.

Weight: 130 pounds (65-inch)

Brightness: 500 nits

Color Gamut: BT.709 (a standard for color measurement in televisions) approximately 200-percent

3D Capability: REALD (3D) chip

Power Consumption: < 200 watts

Viewing Angle: 160 degrees

Other Features: Smooth 120hz and x.v. Color

Mits Laservue has tough competition from Samsung's new Series 9 LED LCD & SONY's XBR8 LED LCD


Maybe LCD is competitive to you, but I have yet to see an LCD with acceptable picture quality at any price. I don’t see why a 70” LCD will be miraculous better then smaller models.
Plasmas also have there own set of problems even Kuro, so if the Mitsubishi has the best big screen picture available I don’t see why $10k is excessive, especially for a 70”.

I...They have nuclear power plants, oil and natural gas exploration and production, shipping, areospace, steel and mining operations and god only knows what else.
If laser TV fails I highly doubt they would go out of business....

They were one of the world's biggest manufacturers even in the 1930s. Guess who built the Zero that flew over Pearl Harbor? So yeah laser TV is hardly vital to them financially. But it would be bad for their image to have it fail so I suspect they did their homework before they announced it back in January. But we'll see.

I'm going to wait a few years before buying one so they can work out all the bugs.

Maybe LCD is competitive to you, but I have yet to see an LCD with acceptable picture quality at any price. I don’t see why a 70” LCD will be miraculous better then smaller models.
Plasmas also have there own set of problems even Kuro, so if the Mitsubishi has the best big screen picture available I don’t see why $10k is excessive, especially for a 70”.

I agree, LCD is a long way from state of the art. Maybe one day they'll solve the biggest problem, the black level, but there is no way the new Sony's are going to be competative from the standpoint of pure picture quality with a 9G Kuro. From the standpoint of picture quality only the Pioneer Elite 151 is, as of right now, the gold standard as far as I'm concerned.

$10,000 for the Mits may not be excessive if it turns out to be a quantum leap in performance. But, it is excessive in terms of what the market will bear. There simply aren't enough people with the critical eye AND that kind of money. I might be able to raise the money if it was really that good, but I know better. It will flop and the price will plummet. 6-12 months later it would be $5000, or less, and the bugs, if any, would be identified. My point is $10,000 is not viable no matter how good it is. Heck, they might as well ask $20,000. If they can't compete(or beat) with flat panel on price they may as well pack it in.

Here's the laser tv side by side with a plasma http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6216/52/

Here's the laser tv side by side with a plasma http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6216/52/

I'd like to see something like that, but more recent. That's from Oct 2006.

$10,000 for the Mits may not be excessive if it turns out to be a quantum leap in performance. But, it is excessive in terms of what the market will bear. There simply aren't enough people with the critical eye AND that kind of money. I might be able to raise the money if it was really that good, but I know better. It will flop and the price will plummet. 6-12 months later it would be $5000, or less, and the bugs, if any, would be identified. My point is $10,000 is not viable no matter how good it is. Heck, they might as well ask $20,000. If they can't compete(or beat) with flat panel on price they may as well pack it in.

It depends on what market we are talking about, the lower end consumer market or the luxury don’t care about the price market. Look at the prices of Sony’s current 70” LCD as well as Samsungs and Panasonics 80” plus Plasmas, $10k is dirt cheap. Only a short time back Sony where getting $13.5k for the 70” Qualia SXRD and big Plasmas cost double that, so why are people unwilling to spend the same or less money now for a better product?
Plenty of people spend tens of thousands on HiFi gear without any issue, $10k for a top line 70” plus TV is nothing. Hell some people spend more then $10k on their car stereo.

Since TV prices have dropped so dramatically there should be room in the market for high end models that cost what a 60” Plasma used to a couple of years back.
Where are the 70” - 80” Plasmas for $20k-$30k?

Here's the laser tv side by side with a plasma http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6216/52/

Seems the big advantage is brightness which may interest some; however the last thing I want is a brighter TV, the wide color gamut is of no interest either.
I will be looking for zero SSE, perfect blacks and no dither-PWM noise. Give me that, or very close to it and I’ll pay $10k no problem, but fail and its no sale at any price.
Somehow I think I will be waiting a while for a suitable product.:(

This is all speculation. Any article I have seen, Mitsi has said these will be in line with current competition. I saw one article which stated the prices would be no more than 5k for the 73" model. It's anyone's guess at this point. Even discussing a 10k price that was quoted from a custom installer that caters to the rich in Florida isn't even worth the time it takes to type IMO.

This is all speculation. Any article I have seen, Mitsi has said these will be in line with current competition. I saw one article which stated the prices would be no more than 5k for the 73" model. It's anyone's guess at this point. Even discussing a 10k price that was quoted from a custom installer that caters to the rich in Florida isn't even worth the time it takes to type IMO.


I'd agree. A lot of people were expecting the new 55" Samsung 950 LCD to be priced a few thousand more than the $4199 price released in the news this week. Reports have the new Sony "55 LCD XB8 at $4499. Therefore I would say it's a very good bet in order to be competitive that the 65" Laservue set comes in under $5000.

One thing I have not seen on this thread is an explanation of how the laser light engine can produce better blacks or higher contrast than the Samsung LED light engined HL-67A750. They both use three light sources projecting the red green and blue light onto the DLP mirror array. Why is the laser purported to be much better at producing black levels and higher contrast ratios?

Jack

The greater beam coherence of lasers is supposed to produce less light scatter, and hence better control of display parameters. At least that's the theory.

Stevie g0t Pwned! :p

Mits Laservue has tough competition from Samsung's new Series 9 LED LCD & SONY's XBR8 LED LCD.

I'm moving in to my new house by Mid Aug & am hoping to narrow my choice between these 3 by then. With todays Samsung press release on their new 2008 LED LCD lineup, all I need now is for SONY & Mits to release & announce their 2008 lineup pricing & availabilty.

Tough choices, all great HDTVs I'm sure, but there can only be 1!

How again are unreleased LCD's the benchmark?

How again are unreleased LCD's the benchmark?

How is it a problem comparing 3 unreleased products which look the best on paper of anything announced (XBR8, 950 and LaserVue).

This thread is 100% speculation anyways, so why complain when he takes speculation one step further by dragging in 2 other upcoming products he is interested in?

I see no difference between comparing 3 unreleased products and comparing LaserVue to a KURO. Either way you are comparing just a piece of paper at some point.

Here's the laser tv side by side with a plasma http://www.itwire.com.au/content/view/6216/52/
thats not even a mitsubishi.
plus it looks like they just ill-adjusted the plasma for marketing BS.

who knows if that was even laser.

thats not even a mitsubishi.
plus it looks like they just ill-adjusted the plasma for marketing BS.

who knows if that was even laser.

Ok, but except for those small details...


:D

thats not even a mitsubishi.
plus it looks like they just ill-adjusted the plasma for marketing BS.

who knows if that was even laser.

Ah, yes it is a Mits, and it is their laservue TV as well. Although it had not been tagged as "Laservue" back then.

Ah, yes it is a Mits, and it is their laservue TV as well. Although it had not been tagged as "Laservue" back then.

But that article says the technology being shown doesn't use a DLP, while Laservue does.

i think it is definetly suspect whether that was a mitsubishi TV or not. That article is nearly 2 years old. Its definetly not a "LaserVue"


besides there is absolutely no indication there is a connection between mitsu and this astor company.


So far there is no real indication there is any connection between Mits and any laser company although it seems several so called laser companies claimed to be involved.

Mits only response to this question was that they dont disclose such information about partners.
That was quite an odd response IMO. Wouldnt the partner want to be known? If Mits was designing the lasers internaly, then wouldnt they be proud to mention that fact?

It all seems like smoke and mirrors to me (or is it lasers and mirrors?).

My biggest question is: Why does using a laser as a light source allow for a slimmer cabinet design??

^^BTW - I should mention that I am super excited about this laser TV.
I certainly dont expect it to be a replacement for CRT, but any step in the right direction should be applauded by the technical community.

...and to all these nay sayers complaining about the porported $5k or $10k price have no clue what is actually happening in the real marketplace.
People are paying $5k for 50" LCDs and not even thinking twice. I predict laser will be a smashing success.

One thing I have not seen on this thread is an explanation of how the laser light engine can produce better blacks or higher contrast than the Samsung LED light engined HL-67A750. They both use three light sources projecting the red green and blue light onto the DLP mirror array. Why is the laser purported to be much better at producing black levels and higher contrast ratios?

Jack

Good point, if that’s all Mitsubishi is doing with the lasers, then I don’t have high expectations for performance.

i think it is definetly suspect whether that was a mitsubishi TV or not. That article is nearly 2 years old. Its definetly not a "LaserVue"


besides there is absolutely no indication there is a connection between mitsu and this astor company.


So far there is no real indication there is any connection between Mits and any laser company although it seems several so called laser companies claimed to be involved.

Mits only response to this question was that they dont disclose such information about partners.
That was quite an odd response IMO. Wouldnt the partner want to be known? If Mits was designing the lasers internaly, then wouldnt they be proud to mention that fact?

It all seems like smoke and mirrors to me (or is it lasers and mirrors?).

My biggest question is: Why does using a laser as a light source allow for a slimmer cabinet design??

about 2 years ago sony showed off a laser lcd sxrd prototype
and i think mentioned their rptv line as well not sure. who knows if they are still looking into laser for flat panels are not.

about 2 years ago sony showed off a laser lcd sxrd prototype
and i think mentioned their rptv line as well not sure. who knows if they are still looking into laser for flat panels are not.

is it possible to use a laser as a backlight?
i know they are using LEDs, so perhaps its something on the horizon.

^^BTW - I should mention that I am super excited about this laser TV.
I certainly dont expect it to be a replacement for CRT, but any step in the right direction should be applauded by the technical community.

...and to all these nay sayers complaining about the porported $5k or $10k price have no clue what is actually happening in the real marketplace.
People are paying $5k for 50" LCDs and not even thinking twice. I predict laser will be a smashing success.

Not really. 50" plasmas can be had for 2 grand and under. Not many (if any) 50" LCDs... but 52" LCDs are generally much lower than 5 grand. Sony and Samsungs upcomming 55" local dimming LED LCDs MSRP are $4.5K and less and will likely be discounted in a few months. Pioneer's latest generation 60" Kuro plasma is now selling for 4.5k. Rear Projection screen over 60" are well under $2K so if Mits brings this out at 5-10K they might as well not even bother.

Not really. 50" plasmas can be had for 2 grand and under. Not many (if any) 50" LCDs... but 52" LCDs are generally much lower than 5 grand. Sony and Samsungs upcomming 55" local dimming LED LCDs MSRP are $4.5K and less and will likely be discounted in a few months. Pioneer's latest generation 60" Kuro plasma is now selling for 4.5k. Rear Projection screen over 60" are well under $2K so if Mits brings this out at 5-10K they might as well not even bother.

It's all about perception and the current marketplace "perceives" that flat panels are in and rptv is out. So I'd agree with the above. Joe Schmoe isn't going to care about laser as a source and will just see it as another big screen they can't hang on the wall. So if they aren't competative with price, then they are going to be hurting in the long run.

^^BTW - I should mention that I am super excited about this laser TV.
I certainly dont expect it to be a replacement for CRT, but any step in the right direction should be applauded by the technical community.

...and to all these nay sayers complaining about the porported $5k or $10k price have no clue what is actually happening in the real marketplace.
People are paying $5k for 50" LCDs and not even thinking twice. I predict laser will be a smashing success.

People paying $5k for 50" LCDs aren't thinking, period.

It's not terrible if Mits priced the laservue at 10k. It just means it's THAT good. I'm sure people (as in: more than one person) will buy it. Then Mits will decide there's not a big enough market for laservue and scrap it, or decide they can make a profit at a lower price. In any event, Panasonic, Sony etc. can breathe easy about their decision to go flat panels.

I really do hope the laservue will be as good as hyped. It looks like it's not going to be cheap. So long as it's out of my budget anyway, I won't be upset if it's outrageously expensive rather than merely expensive. I just hope it's technically good and survive long enough for the price to come down and -- most important to me -- laser will be carried over to front projector, because I'm sick of dim-ish bulbs that get even dimmer after a few hundreds hours and cost $3-400 to replace after a few thousands hours.

Mitsubishi's own website says that the Laservue will be "competitively priced with similar-sized flat panel televisions". Therefore, I highly doubt the price will be anywhere near 10k. Even if they price with Kuro, they still won't be that expensive.

Also, every article I've read on laser says that it is cheaper to manufacture than bulb. So that alone should help. Hopefully.

Not really. 50" plasmas can be had for 2 grand and under. Not many (if any) 50" LCDs... but 52" LCDs are generally much lower than 5 grand. Sony and Samsungs upcomming 55" local dimming LED LCDs MSRP are $4.5K and less and will likely be discounted in a few months. Pioneer's latest generation 60" Kuro plasma is now selling for 4.5k. Rear Projection screen over 60" are well under $2K so if Mits brings this out at 5-10K they might as well not even bother.

To be fair, you should use the MSRP for these sets and for the 60" Kuros, thats $5500/6500.

Mitsubishi's own website says that the Laservue will be "competitively priced with similar-sized flat panel televisions". Therefore, I highly doubt the price will be anywhere near 10k. Even if they price with Kuro, they still won't be that expensive.

.


I hope they don't match the 73" with the Sony 70" LCD. 30K is Bill Gates territory..

Not really. 50" plasmas can be had for 2 grand and under. Not many (if any) 50" LCDs... but 52" LCDs are generally much lower than 5 grand. Sony and Samsungs upcomming 55" local dimming LED LCDs MSRP are $4.5K and less and will likely be discounted in a few months. Pioneer's latest generation 60" Kuro plasma is now selling for 4.5k. Rear Projection screen over 60" are well under $2K so if Mits brings this out at 5-10K they might as well not even bother.

thats the point im trying to make. just becuase you can get a 50" LCD for $2k doesnt mean that there arent 50" LCDs that people are paying $5k for.

And I can assure you, there are people paying that price for those size TVs.
Are you aware of the vast wealth in the united states? Just becuase you do all your shopping at walmart doesnt mean that is the only option.

There is 5 million millionaires in the united states. Do you think those people would care if they had to pay $5k or even $10k for the best or at least the newest sexy TV? The answer is no.

I really have to laugh when I see these posts people write complaining that the price point is too high (even when we dont know the price point yet). Or that it will fail if it costs more then $3k. Sure you wont see that TV at circuit city or walmart...but isnt that a good thing?

It's all about perception and the current marketplace "perceives" that flat panels are in and rptv is out. So I'd agree with the above. Joe Schmoe isn't going to care about laser as a source and will just see it as another big screen they can't hang on the wall. So if they aren't competative with price, then they are going to be hurting in the long run.

My understanding was that these are going to be wall mountable. Did I miss an announcement stating they wouldn't be?

They say by 2014 color TVs will be as good as our eyes http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20060901/3743/

They say by 2014 color TVs will be as good as our eyes http://www.makeyougohmm.com/20060901/3743/

That article makes one major oversight... although today's TVs can't reproduce the full range of color our eyes can see, they can reproduce the full range of color available in the signal they are given. A significan't change in color capability by 2014 is worthless without a change to the standards of today's media. HDTV is just now starting to become mainstream. I'm not sure I'd expect a whole new system in six years. The previous standard ruled for 50.

Forgive me being a newbie guys, but from what I can assurtain, in my humble opinion, the new laser vue is nothing more than a re-worked light engine to counter the faults of the first generation light engine failures. If they are planning to price these as new technology they are sadly mistaken that it would generate any overwhelming buyers drive. From where I sit it should have been done as an alternative replacement for the bogus light engines that I have read so many, many complaints about on other sites and blogs.

It appears they are trying to spin their way out of what got them into trouble a long time ago. One can only hope the reality is at least half the hype.

Any opinions?

I have an opinion. You are poorly informed. Overall, IME (which is based on servicing the Mits DLPs since they were introduced), there is little wrong with their light engines, in general. I have replaced exactly one, yet the dealer that I service for sold dozens of the earliest sets, and many more of the later generations. Far more significant are the dozens of capacitors failing in some of the first generation Mits DLP electrical chassis. Even that problem, however, is not nearly as widespread as the problems that other vendors have had with various technologies. Overall, the Mits DLP sets have been quite reliable for our clients. Like many sets, you hear about the problems, but not the satisfied clients.

That said, I think that Mitsubishi has made some really dumb decisions in recent years and if this LaserVue product does not sell through effectively and profitably for them, I would not be surprised to see an exit from the consumer electronics market similar to Fujitsu and NEC. There is just not much left that makes them unique. They buy LCD panels like everyone else and build around them, and depend on TI for the DLP part of the RP sets.

Back in the 1980's and even most of the 90's mitsu's crt projection tv's with glass lenses where considered the king of big screen crt tv's.

Forgive me being a newbie guys, but from what I can assurtain, in my humble opinion, the new laser vue is nothing more than a re-worked light engine to counter the faults of the first generation light engine failures. If they are planning to price these as new technology they are sadly mistaken that it would generate any overwhelming buyers drive. From where I sit it should have been done as an alternative replacement for the bogus light engines that I have read so many, many complaints about on other sites and blogs.

It appears they are trying to spin their way out of what got them into trouble a long time ago. One can only hope the reality is at least half the hype.

Any opinions?

Quite a first post. After many years and many posts and many years as an owner two DLP sets, I have a dumb question for you. What first generation engine failures?

My understanding was that these are going to be wall mountable. Did I miss an announcement stating they wouldn't be?

Yes, they are going to be wall mountable, but I was talking about perception. Even though you can wall mount them, they are still 10" thick. I have no problem with it whatsoever, but the general public thinks all of a sudden after years and years, that a TV has to be a flat screen less than 3" thick or it is old news and worthless. I don't think that way, but marketing is a powerful tool when done correctly.

Can you buy a 65” - 73” flat panel that is 3” thick?

Most people DO NOT wall mount their flat screen TV’s, especially the big ones.

Plenty of people can afford a lot more then $5k.

i think everyone is under-estimating the laser factor.

dude, I would buy a refrigerator if it had a laser in it. 10" is plenty thin. its been made quite clear by mits that this isnt a walmart TV.

everyone considers joe six pack as the decider of all things. and in shear volume he probably is. i mean he destoryed HDDVD due to his ignorance.

however, since laser is super cool...im talking star wars cool. it has no real competitor. what plasma? plasma is a 10 year old cool. nobody considers plasma to be cool anymore.

Laser is certainly the new cool. the only thing close to it is OLED.

JSP and all the rich folks will flock to laser.

thats the point im trying to make. just becuase you can get a 50" LCD for $2k doesnt mean that there arent 50" LCDs that people are paying $5k for.

And I can assure you, there are people paying that price for those size TVs.
Are you aware of the vast wealth in the united states? Just becuase you do all your shopping at walmart doesnt mean that is the only option.

There is 5 million millionaires in the united states. Do you think those people would care if they had to pay $5k or even $10k for the best or at least the newest sexy TV? The answer is no.

I really have to laugh when I see these posts people write complaining that the price point is too high (even when we dont know the price point yet). Or that it will fail if it costs more then $3k. Sure you wont see that TV at circuit city or walmart...but isnt that a good thing?

I suppose it all depends on how Mits wants to market this TV. If they are going for the millionaire market I guess they can price it at 10 grand and sell a few. But somehow I don't think that is going to be very profitable for Mits. If they sold these sets at Wal-Mart it would be great for everyone as that would drive down prices, increase sales, and help secure the future of RPTV. But actually Wal-Mart, the single largest store chain on the planet, does not sell a single RPTV. The current market does not seem to value RPTV, it is moving towards LCD for reasons that may not make sense to RPTV enthusiasts, but this minority does not drive the market. Honestly I can't find a 52" LCD that sells on the street for 5 grand, not even close. There will always be a small minority of people who have more money then they need and will not care what something costs, but again these people are not going to make this TV a success. If Mits brings this set to a limited market (sell only at high end stores with out-of-line pricing) it will sell about as well as those 70" LCDs priced at 30 grand (which your 5 million millionares appearently didn't buy). This is not going to help stop the market moving away from RPTV. What they need is an LCD killer which they may just have if they can only get it to the right market at an attractive price. If you want RPTV to stick around you should want it to be mainstream and not a niche product. With Sammy's LCD giving Sony a run for their money, and LCD making more money for them than RPTV, I wonder how much longer they will be making RPTVs? If they stop making RPTV is will not be good for Mits.

Personally I hope this set is a great success, but Mits seems strangely quiet about their flagship model. They must be trying to figure it out too. I wish them luck.

There is 5 million millionaires in the united states. Do you think those people would care if they had to pay $5k or even $10k for the best or at least the newest sexy TV? The answer is no.



I know several couples that are muti-millionares. There is no way they would ever pay that much for a TV. Part of the reason they are so wealthy is becasue they have been fairly frugal during their lives. Just because someone can easily afford something doesn't mean they will purchase it.

Businesses are not generally focused on driving down prices. They have more than enough challenges trying to increase profits.
A curious aside, I noticed here on the AVS Front Page, an article about a Denon 6' Network cable, for sale at $500. That didn't seem to cause much buzz at all. For some reason people are quite happy to pay very large sums for certain mysterious products like Monster Cables, Upscaling DVD Players, Power Conditioners and Video processors of various sorts. The efficacy of these things is not easily measured and at worst, merely duplicate free things that are included in the box. The same folks will turn around and expect a high tech TV to be sold for little or nothing, while demanding that they can return the TV four or five times for little or no reason. The worst whines occur when one of these exchanged units happens to be a refurbished unit. It seems that folks expect all those returns to go to that great trash can in the sky.

The issue isn't how many people there are that have the money to buy a five figure television, laser or otherwise. The issue is how many of those people are going to overlook the form factor of a flat panel and buy the laser because it has a better picture? Assuming it does of course.

RPTV's are old technology to the vast majority of people, regardless of the light source. So, the first problem Mits is going to have is the psychological hurdle of old school form. They have two ways to go. Price, the current strategy, or quality. If they price the Laser at or higher than a similar size flat panel, it must have a greatly superior picture. Even if it does, how many of the well heeled customers we're talking about even know what black level is? It's not just the money, it's going to take someone well off with the critical eye to see, understand and appreciate the difference in order to overcome the form factor disadvantage. A videophile with money no doubt, but I simply don't see many others paying money equal to a flat panel no matter how good it is.

I can"t believe how many people belive that this tv will cost 10k. First off we are not talking super thin. It is still rear projection. NO WAY MITS. would do this. They said it would be competitively priced. 4k, 5k , maybe 6k retail price which we all know we don't pay anyway. Not many players left in rear projection market. Most people want thin (wife don't want big box in rooms any more lol). Rear projectors still sell good because for the size REMEMBER MORE BANG FOR THE BUCK! My opinion, and its only my opinion is that the set will come out soon because of the drop in price in Mits other sets, and you can't even find the 73" set on B.B. magnoila site any more. I'm looking for a new 73" soon. Waiting for this one. Lets wait and see, and not fall in to the trap that "THE SKY IS FALLING! 10 k maybe for olen , not rear projection. Thanks for your time this is onlly my opinion.

The issue isn't how many people there are that have the money to buy a five figure television, laser or otherwise. The issue is how many of those people are going to overlook the form factor of a flat panel and buy the laser because it has a better picture? Assuming is does of course.

RPTV's are old technology to the vast majority of people, regardless of the light source. So, the first problem Mits is going to have is the psychological hurdle of old school form. They have two ways to go. Price, the current strategy, or quality. If they price the Laser at or higher than a similar size flat panel, it must have a greatly superior picture. Even if it does, how many of the well heeled customers we're talking about even know what black level is? It's not just the money, it's going to take someone well off with the critical eye to see, understand and appreciate the difference in order to overcome the form factor disadvantage. A videophile with money no doubt, but I simply don't see many others paying money equal to a flat panel no matter how good it is.

Videophiles with money buy front projectors to display content on screens significantly bigger than 73".

This is still DLP so contrast improvement due to laser light source, if any, should be marginal. The only real improvement should be colors. Considering this, this tv is worth $3K, max.

...It's not terrible if Mits priced the laservue at 10k. It just means it's THAT good. ...

I seriously doubt that! There have been 60"+ sized LCDs out for several years with much higher MSRPs than 10k and I wouldn't spend $3k on them. Outside of bright environments they are horribly washed out and horribly overpriced. Having said that, all I am saying is price=quality isn't always true.

Even with a high price I'm sure the TV will still sell. Many of you out there just want a big TV and yes some of you don't see spending 10k on a TV as an issue. However, for this technology to have a longer life span than the SXRD it's not going to make it very far with a 10k price tag. Prices on LCD and plasma are starting to drop. By next year you'll likely see brighter plasmas with better blacks, lower power consumption, thinner profiles, etc. LCDs are already bright enough and I would assume more local dimming LCDs as well. Whether LCD will see a 60" size reasonably priced is still unknown.

This is still DLP so contrast improvement due to laser light source, if any, should be marginal. The only real improvement should be colors. Considering this, this tv is worth $3K, max.

For which size, the 65 or 73?

Little over four years ago I bought the KDF 60XS that I have for about 4K. Its 70 inch big brother listed at 7K. This was in CC.

Considering it's size, and newness, I would think the 65 will retail for about 5K and the 73 at 6K. Once they have been out for a while, the prices will drop.

The current 73 Diamond can be had for about 3k if you really look (and I have as I'm itching to go bigger than 60 with my viewing distance and the wife vetoing the FP stuff). So there's no way that the new flagship will hit the ground at the same price as the old one.

Just my thought....

Seggers

The 65inch is supposed to be in stores within 2 months and there hasn't been any additional info or pricing released. If the tech is DOA I just wish they would state it instead of staying on the hush-hush.

It was supposed to be released for a while now and they have just kept pushing it back, either the technology just isn't all that they thought it would be and are killing it or with it being a new tech they are trying to get it right before they release it. I'm hoping it's the later as I've been "hoping" that this technology would be good for a while. Just wish there was some definite answers.

Videophiles with money buy front projectors to display content on screens significantly bigger than 73".

You think they only have one display???

Yes, I have a 126" screen in my theater, but I still want a 73" in the living room (and will have a 65" in the game room).

I doubt there's many videophiles, regardless of money, that have 3 or 4 front projectors around the house.

I know several couples that are muti-millionares. There is no way they would ever pay that much for a TV. Part of the reason they are so wealthy is becasue they have been fairly frugal during their lives. Just because someone can easily afford something doesn't mean they will purchase it.
There are many different levels of millionaires. Perhaps your freinds are millionaires on paper, such that they have an $800,000 house or something.

The store my cousin works at in Ft Lauderdale is in such a rich neighborhood that the people that buy TVs are the hired help from the rich people.

They just roll in, and ask for the best item and to have it custom installed.
They don't care if its $10,000 or $50,000.

I know several couples that are muti-millionares. There is no way they would ever pay that much for a TV. Part of the reason they are so wealthy is becasue they have been fairly frugal during their lives. Just because someone can easily afford something doesn't mean they will purchase it.

I don't move in such lofty circles generally, but I have known a few wealthy people and they seem as diverse as any other group in terms of tastes. So although such people as you describe may well exist, I question how typical they are. But part of this diversity is that many (perhaps more than less wealthy people) are concerned about social issues, including the environment and energy. Many try to reduce energy consumption even though they could easily pay the cost, and that favors RPTVs over plasma and LCD TVs, at least in larger sizes today.

I know myself I am bothered by the idea that I would have one electrical appliance fighting another on a hot day (a TV and an air conditioner).

Considering Mits Elec is the Official HDTV of the PGA I'd thought by now they would've used a Major Tourney to debut this LaserVue but with Tiger out for the year viewership is down - it seems they missed the British Open and next Major should be the PGA Championship 8/4-8/10. Seems like a natural they use the PGA sponsorship while the season is at it's peak but like others it's still hush on the homefront.:)

Considering Mits Elec is the Official HDTV of the PGA I'd thought by now they would've used a Major Tourney to debut this LaserVue but with Tiger out for the year viewership is down - it seems they missed the British Open and next Major should be the PGA Championship 8/4-8/10. Seems like a natural they use the PGA sponsorship while the season is at it's peak but like others it's still hush on the homefront.:)

As each day passes with no word from Mits about avaliability or price im becoming increasingly convinved that the laser TV's will never hot the market ! I was told by a salesman at the Big Screen Store in MD that they would be out in Oct (65) at about a price of $4,00o and 7k for the 73 inch due in Dec. Mits is full of it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Forgive me being a newbie guys, but from what I can assurtain, in my humble opinion, the new laser vue is nothing more than a re-worked light engine to counter the faults of the first generation light engine failures. If they are planning to price these as new technology they are sadly mistaken that it would generate any overwhelming buyers drive. From where I sit it should have been done as an alternative replacement for the bogus light engines that I have read so many, many complaints about on other sites and blogs.

It appears they are trying to spin their way out of what got them into trouble a long time ago. One can only hope the reality is at least half the hype.

Any opinions?




IIRC, laser-based displays will offer ~20K hours of service life and will likely maintain their integrity late into the usable life. With bulbs (the sooner they die the better IMO), you have a very hot power source, and bulbs lose their lumen output over time. Lasers are simply more reliable in this regard. As well, a laser system should render better black levels and shadow detail (IIRC).

Laser based systems are also supposed to offer lower production costs for manufacturer's, so hopefully we'll prices scale downard at nice clip. I'm interested in a new TV and I'd love to have a laser-based DLP PJ sometime in the future.

Manufacturing cost and retail pricing have little if anything in common, prices charged are always as high as the market will tolerate.

Lazer better offer a lot more then just an increased time between light source replacement other wise it’s a non starter as far as I am concerned.

Do we know if any forum sponsors plan on selling these sets or is it going to be B&M only kinda thing?

Considering Mits Elec is the Official HDTV of the PGA I'd thought by now they would've used a Major Tourney to debut this LaserVue ...

I'd be very surprised if they did that. Viewers go to these shows for golf not tech. I suspect they will simply quietly start shipping it to stores, then once there's product available for customers to inspect, launch a modest campaign, probably aimed at the Christmas/Superbowl season. If Laservue is as good as Mits is promising it should largely sell itself, but we'll see.

I talk to Mark at Electronics World in Gainesville FL and he told me that the price for the 65" would be in the $5,000 to $6,000 range for the first year and will be in stores in about 45 days.

I talk to Mark at Electronics World in Gainesville FL and he told me that the price for the 65" would be in the $5,000 to $6,000 range for the first year and will be in stores in about 45 days.

in stores in 45 days & Mits has not mentioned anything else about this product? Something is very fishy about all of this. Mits is dropping the ball here, especially w/ Samsung just announcing their pricing for their new series 9 LED LCD 55' LNA950 & SONY soon to follow.

I talk to Mark at Electronics World in Gainesville FL and he told me that the price for the 65" would be in the $5,000 to $6,000 range for the first year and will be in stores in about 45 days.
That's too much, when the non laser 65 is less than half of that.

I wonder if the recent release of the 73835 bodes ill for the Laser stuff?

Seggers

I'd be very surprised if they did that. Viewers go to these shows for golf not tech. I suspect they will simply quietly start shipping it to stores, then once there's product available for customers to inspect, launch a modest campaign, probably aimed at the Christmas/Superbowl season. If Laservue is as good as Mits is promising it should largely sell itself, but we'll see.

I don't think he meant they'd have a bunch of them in the locker rooms at the PGA.

It'd be a good time for Mits to start their TV advertising campaign. You know, lots of viewers. Mostly male. Watching TV. Needing a bigger TV. Educating them on the latest technology. That kind of stuff.

I don't think he meant they'd have a bunch of them in the locker rooms at the PGA.

It'd be a good time for Mits to start their TV advertising campaign. You know, lots of viewers. Mostly male. Watching TV. Needing a bigger TV. Educating them on the latest technology. That kind of stuff.

I agree--Plus, with the Olympics and the start of NFL soon, especially pre-season games, it would seem to be a no-brainer for them to start introducing these to the public. It's worrisome that no info is forthcoming.

Meanwhile, my Sammy 67" LED DLP is performing brilliantly, so I can afford to wait another couple years if need be.

Hopefully by then, the 73" will be affordable, but for now I am thrilled with my new set. :cool:

As each day passes with no word from Mits about avaliability or price im becoming increasingly convinved that the laser TV's will never hot the market ! I was told by a salesman at the Big Screen Store in MD that they would be out in Oct (65) at about a price of $4,00o and 7k for the 73 inch due in Dec. Mits is full of it !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

I was told the same date(Oct 08) by a salesman at Tweeter today. He aslo mentioned "around" 4k for the 65 with the 73 due out in Jan 09. Doesn't sound promising.

I would be willing to pay around 5k for the 73inch if the black levels are equal to the current generations Kuros. Might be a lot to ask for and I will prob have to wait for price drops, but here is to hoping!

Well, considering the fact that I was ready to drop $4200 on the Mits 73-833 back in January, I think I'd probably spend $6K on the 73" Laser. However, since I purchased a 65" Toshiba back in February instead, I'm willing to wait another year (or longer).

Well, I am probably in the market because my 62" Mits is in the shop with the blinking green light of death so no telling whether I'll ever see it again. Really my choices are the LED Samsung 67", the 65" LaseVue (if it actually exists), and the 60" Kuro. Now I know this is a wide range of prices, but the 60" Kuro, while fabulous, might be a tad too small for my space. If the 65" Mits is not in the low $4k range, without hideous early adopter problems (and it has the advertised quality, black levels, etc.) I would spring for it-- but the Samsung LED seems like a great option at a cheap price.

I would be willing to pay around 5k for the 73inch if the black levels are equal to the current generations Kuros. Might be a lot to ask for and I will prob have to wait for price drops, but here is to hoping!

5k would be perfect since you can get the current diamond for between 3,000-3800

6 i would have to think about it 7 i would prob say no or wait a few months and se if it drops.

right now I'm planning on some other expenses so i can wait for a tv. I'm planning on buying a tv between april and may of next year , depending on price.

laservue is my number 1 choice (if affordable enough)

if too expensive then i'll go with the next gen samsung led sets for 2009 , maybe they will have a 72 inch led who knows.

if by the time im planning on buying mits announces when the 2nd gen laser will be out, I wil atleast hold off to see what the price will be and how much 1st gen lasers drop in price.

if 2nd gen is vastly better and price is lower then ill just go 2nd gen.

but if laserve as of may of 09 is just more than im willing to spend, then led it will be.

but hell if mitts can get the price low enough by jan or march, then i would ust go for the laservue without 2nd thoughts

[QUOTE=cjut01;14396913]Well, I am probably in the market because my 62" Mits is in the shop with the blinking green light of death so no telling whether I'll ever see it again. Really my choices are the LED Samsung 67", the 65" LaseVue (if it actually exists), and the 60" Kuro. No I know this is a wide range of prices, but the 60" Kuro, while fabulous, might be a tad too small for my space. If the 65" Mits is not in the low $4k range, without hideous early adopter problems (and it has the advertised quality, black levels, etc.) I would spring for it-- but the Saamsung LED seems like a great option at a cheap price.[

Im dying to see the new lasers but you can almost bet thatthey will have 1st generation bugs. maybe next year will be a good time to buy a laser !

but the Saamsung LED seems like a great option at a cheap price.


It is, especially compared to what the Laservue may cost. I paid $2050 for the 67" Sammy.

Unfortunately, it's looking more and more like Laservue=Vaporvue.

Hopefully, that's not the case....

I don't think he meant they'd have a bunch of them in the locker rooms at the PGA.

It'd be a good time for Mits to start their TV advertising campaign. You know, lots of viewers. Mostly male. Watching TV. Needing a bigger TV. Educating them on the latest technology. That kind of stuff.

I guess I should have explained myself better. What I meant is that if a product is not available in stores, then to talk about it is a techie, rather than sales, message. Yes you can sell to this kind of audience but there had better be product available at their local Big Box or it will simply annoy and frustrate. That's why I see them shipping first, then advertising.

Anyway this is all speculation, although these second-hand accounts of store salesman promising arrivals soon are tantalizing. What I'm wondering now is whether we'll see any up here in Canada since currently there are few Mitsubishi outlets. (They only started selling cars very recently).

Cheers.

maybe next year will be a good time to buy a laser !

But is that going to be a 1st gen set, or 2nd gen?

;)

What I'm wondering now is whether we'll see any up here in Canada since currently there are few Mitsubishi outlets. (They only started selling cars very recently).

Cheers.does mitsubishi sell ANY TVs in Canada? Or Mexico for that matter?

does mitsubishi sell ANY TVs in Canada?

I've never seen any but then I can't say for sure there are none. If they exist I presume they'd be in the big 3 cities, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver. Anyone in those cities seen a Mits TV being sold?

In Montreal last mits sold is in 1990. But you able to find projector for business presentation in some non street store

Manufacturing cost and retail pricing have little if anything in common, prices charged are always as high as the market will tolerate.

Lazer better offer a lot more then just an increased time between light source replacement other wise it’s a non starter as far as I am concerned.


Cheaper production costs can give a manufacturer leverage in a price war or when consumers are price sensitive. As for laser's success or failure, only time will tell. On paper it looks a damn sight better than any bulb-based projection technology; or flat screen LCD/LCOS technology (IMO). If laser tech doesn't prove worthy, I'll be going plasma. I can't stomach LCD/LCOS and I don't see LED-based displays being successful in the long term. The form factor isn't 'flat' enough for the ipod generation, and the benefits of LED/DLP, while visible to me, aren't sufficient to sway people away from an LCD or plasma purchase. Thin looks better, just not in the right way necessarily.

I'm looking to upgrade my Mitsu 65" RPTV (crt) in the next 2-3 months. I do NOT have a $5k budget... I'd be surprised if I have $4k budget, frankly.

Assuming I do NOT want to go DOWN in size at ALL, do you think it's worth holding out another couple months to see the Mitsu laser sets (if they actually show up), or just go ahead and pick up the Sammy 67" LED set as soon as practical? Or is there another set I should be looking at? (I'd post in another thread, but I've had good luck with Mitsu in the past, so I'm more than a little inclined to give them first look on the replacement... but I'm not seeing much in the current lineup that distinguishes them from the Sammy LED sets.)

I agree that thicker sets are the way to go right now, when practical, so the sexy slimness of LCD and Plasma (especially given their lofty prices at this size point) don't really interest me. (For this room, at least... the bedroom wall is another story.)

I'm looking to upgrade my Mitsu 65" RPTV (crt) in the next 2-3 months. I do NOT have a $5k budget... I'd be surprised if I have $4k budget, frankly.

Assuming I do NOT want to go DOWN in size at ALL, do you think it's worth holding out another couple months to see the Mitsu laser sets (if they actually show up), or just go ahead and pick up the Sammy 67" LED set as soon as practical? Or is there another set I should be looking at? (I'd post in another thread, but I've had good luck with Mitsu in the past, so I'm more than a little inclined to give them first look on the replacement... but I'm not seeing much in the current lineup that distinguishes them from the Sammy LED sets.)

I agree that thicker sets are the way to go right now, when practical, so the sexy slimness of LCD and Plasma (especially given their lofty prices at this size point) don't really interest me. (For this room, at least... the bedroom wall is another story.)
Try looking at the Olevia 65" you can see at Sam's. It's like $2200 and an LCD. Looking at it at Sam's, it looked nice, but I'm making no claims about specs and features.

I'm looking to upgrade my Mitsu 65" RPTV (crt) in the next 2-3 months. I do NOT have a $5k budget... I'd be surprised if I have $4k budget, frankly.

Assuming I do NOT want to go DOWN in size at ALL, do you think it's worth holding out another couple months to see the Mitsu laser sets (if they actually show up), or just go ahead and pick up the Sammy 67" LED set as soon as practical? Or is there another set I should be looking at? (I'd post in another thread, but I've had good luck with Mitsu in the past, so I'm more than a little inclined to give them first look on the replacement... but I'm not seeing much in the current lineup that distinguishes them from the Sammy LED sets.)

I agree that thicker sets are the way to go right now, when practical, so the sexy slimness of LCD and Plasma (especially given their lofty prices at this size point) don't really interest me. (For this room, at least... the bedroom wall is another story.)

I wouldn't wait.

Best Buy had the Mits 73-833 (73") on clearance recently for $2200 (about half off what it was 6 months ago), because the 835 has recently come out.

If you can find it the Toshiba 65HM167 (65") is a very nice set and can be had for $1500 or less.

I wouldn't wait.

Best Buy had the Mits 73-833 (73") on clearance recently for $2200 (about half off what it was 6 months ago), because the 835 has recently come out.

If you can find it the Toshiba 65HM167 (65") is a very nice set and can be had for $1500 or less.

You like those better than the Sammy? I kind of like the idea behind LED... no bulb to burn out, no frequent recals due to fading, etc.

You like those better than the Sammy? I kind of like the idea behind LED... no bulb to burn out, no frequent recals due to fading, etc.

Yes.

I'd take the Toshiba over the Sammy because I don't think the Sammy is $1000 better.

I'd take the Mits over the Sammy, because for the same price, I'd want the extra 6".

You can't really go wrong with any of them though.

I've been waiting & waiting on the Laservue but my 6 year old 55" is starting to have convergence issues.

BB & CC it's hard to find someone that knows of Laservue.
I went by Paul's in SoCal, they advertise as big Mitsu. Dist. to see if they knew anything.
As expected they had no info and sounded frustrated about it.
I've only been in there a few times over the years and they are usually a bit on the hard sell side.
I told them I was only intrested in the Laservue.
They said good luck & did not ask to contact me when it was available.
I got the impresion they think Laservue is dead.

Will most likely go for the 61 or 67" LED this weekend

To bad, really wanted to see this before I made new purchase.

I am in the same boat.. Really want to wait and see the price/reviews for laservue, but the samsung led dlp is making it hard.

You guys thinking of the Sammy LED DLP will not be disappointed if you want to stay away from bulb based RPs.

It is a fantastic set at a great price.

I'm not putting down any other brand or tech, but if you don't like the heat, noise, slow start-up time, and short life of bulbs (and calibrations), of bulbs, this is your only cost effective option for a large screen.

And the picture quality is great. My 67" is a huge improvement over my 5 year old 56" bulb based Sammy.

Good luck whatever you decide.

What about the Mitsu 65 bulb set-under 1700, new darkchip & no bugs?

With the lack of news of the laservue, being new tech, having only smooth 120 processing and being priced above the Diamond level, I went cheap and got the 65736. For way under two grand and cheaper than the Samsung by a couple of hundred bucks, this year's 65736 was bright enough to consider and with the tv being in the corner, viewing angles were perfect for the room.

I found the samsung 67A50 to have a noticeably narrow field of view, and less visual pop at a couple different stores. THe past geometry issues of Samsung did not help its cause. The led is nice especially if you are not going to upgrade for 5+ years, but bulb replacement is not brain surgery even though the cost bites. I anticipate I will need to change one bulb before the 240 hz, 60 inch + monsters come out at affordable prices in the next five years.

Oh and my wife hates glossy, reflective polished black bezels and the samsungs are definitely worse in that respect. Not a bad tv but I like the 65736.

With the lack of news of the laservue, being new tech, having only smooth 120 processing and being priced above the Diamond level, I went cheap and got the 65736. For way under two grand and cheaper than the Samsung by a couple of hundred bucks, this year's 65736 was bright enough to consider and with the tv being in the corner, viewing angles were perfect for the room.

I found the samsung 67A50 to have a noticeably narrow field of view, and less visual pop at a couple different stores. THe past geometry issues of Samsung did not help its cause. The led is nice especially if you are not going to upgrade for 5+ years, but bulb replacement is not brain surgery even though the cost bites. I anticipate I will need to change one bulb before the 240 hz, 60 inch + monsters come out at affordable prices in the next five years.

Oh and my wife hates glossy, reflective polished black bezels and the samsungs are definitely worse in that respect. Not a bad tv but I like the 65736.

I wish I could forget about the Laser vue sets ! Im afraid to spend the money on a 65835 witht the hint of the lasers being in the air ! I wish Mits would let us in on the real deal ! Damn them !

Definately, if I could just get accurate pricing info I would know if I could afford it or if I need to hang my hat somewhere else.

With the lack of news of the laservue, being new tech, having only smooth 120 processing and being priced above the Diamond level, I went cheap and got the 65736. For way under two grand and cheaper than the Samsung by a couple of hundred bucks, this year's 65736 was bright enough to consider and with the tv being in the corner, viewing angles were perfect for the room.

I found the samsung 67A50 to have a noticeably narrow field of view, and less visual pop at a couple different stores. THe past geometry issues of Samsung did not help its cause. The led is nice especially if you are not going to upgrade for 5+ years, but bulb replacement is not brain surgery even though the cost bites. I anticipate I will need to change one bulb before the 240 hz, 60 inch + monsters come out at affordable prices in the next five years.

Oh and my wife hates glossy, reflective polished black bezels and the samsungs are definitely worse in that respect. Not a bad tv but I like the 65736.

If it were ONLY a case of replacing the bulb, I might agree... changing a bulb isn't rocket science. But bulbs bring heat up delays and cool down times, plus continual need for recalibration as a result of age dimming, changing the situation. I want nearly instant on and off, like you get with Plasma, LCD, and CRT. Bulb-based DLP is the only tech where you to wait so long for your set to fire up... and then, if you turn it off, you have to wait again before it can come back on. I would gladly live with it, given the other advantages, if there weren't an alternative that solves those problems with ZERO downside.

I think many people would consider a duller picture with inferior black level a BIG downside.

For those that don’t need the extra brightness of the lamp bases sets a neutral density filter can be dropped in to lower output by 50% with the advantage that black level will also drop by 50%. Thats significant in anyone language and puts a lamp based unit way out in front for blacks.

The Lasers are going to be a step up from the diamond line so why wouldn't they be priced at a higher tier. Secondly, you are waiting for new tech and all its bugs which is fine if you like to jump right in. Third, there is nothing so far that says Laser's processing will any better than what is in the rest of the DLP line and from what I read, nobody is amazed by smooth 120.

It depends on your price point. I think next years Samsung LEDs will have the Darkchip four making them more competitive with the new Mitsubishis. Everybody reading this probably wants a new TV soon so get whatever tech you like the best.

I must admit that I am seriously considering the Diamond 73835 unit, if nothing is forthcoming about the LaserVue.

I found one for a fairly reasonable price on the interent (not that I can afford that just yet), and I'd dearly love to retire the Sony and get a bigger screen.

Plus the outlaws dared to buy a 62"! :eek: No, I'm not competitive at all....

Seggers

I must admit that I am seriously considering the Diamond 73835 unit, if nothing is forthcoming about the LaserVue.

I found one for a fairly reasonable price on the interent (not that I can afford that just yet), and I'd dearly love to retire the Sony and get a bigger screen.

Plus the outlaws dared to buy a 62"! :eek: No, I'm not competitive at all....

Seggers

I went with the 73835 for same reason but got mine at cost...Mits employee =)

I know there was quite a bit of information posted over the weekend (posts anyways), but I didn't have time to read it then. Don't supposed anyone had the info saved or if there was anything said about pricing/availability?

Just more speculation and rumors from sources of unknown reliability.

I posted this on Saturday:


Take it for what it's worth, but I went to Fry's today to check out the 835. They had a Mits rep there demoing some 3D stuff on it (very cool BTW). Here's what he told me about LaserVUE:
* 65" to debut on the west cost by the end of the month and in Texas a few weeks after that - 73" by January
* Absolutely no problems with the lasers
* All of their RP will be laser based within 3 years
* No solid info on pricing, but probably $5-$6K for the 73"
* Bulbs on all Mits will soon be $99 as they are now making them in-house

This post was interesting:

http://articles.lancasteronline.com/local/4/225679

"He noted in September Mitsubishi is debuting the first laser DLP, which is energy efficient and very shallow, about 10 inches deep, so it won't take up much room. And the pricing, *at under $2,000*, is competitive to plasma and LCD TVs and is a good alternative, Merson said."

"It's got the best reds you've seen in TV," he said."


I went to hdguru to see if Merson had an email address but there wasn't one. Would like to know if the reporter got that price wrong or if Merson has some inside info.

"It's got the best reds you've seen in TV," he said. "They just pop out."

That sounds suspiciously like someone mistaking red push for a good thing.

I posted this on Saturday:

I called MITS customer service trying to find out about the bulb issue( it is one of the issues holding me back from buying the 65835). After telling the rep I understood that the bulbs were going to be made in house and cost $99 she put me on hold. After several minutes she came back on and asked me where I heard this. After telling her, she said she couldn't confirm this info. I then told her I didn't want to pay $200+ for bulbs and that I would now consider the Sammy 67A750 because of the LED lighting. She the told me I should wait for the laser televisions from MITS. When I asked her if she could give me a date when they would be out-"third quarter". Some days you just can't win:(

I called MITS customer service trying to find out about the bulb issue( it is one of the issues holding me back from buying the 65835). After telling the rep I understood that the bulbs were going to be made in house and cost $99 she put me on hold. After several minutes she came back on and asked me where I heard this. After telling her, she said she couldn't confirm this info. I then told her I didn't want to pay $200+ for bulbs and that I would now consider the Sammy 67A750 because of the LED lighting. She the told me I should wait for the laser televisions from MITS. When I asked her if she could give me a date when they would be out-"third quarter". Some days you just can't win:(
Gotta tell you, I looked at the 67A750 next to the 735 (65" & 73") this weekend, and the 67A750 had better PQ (sharper, clearer images) than the Mits. And my wife noticed at another store that we saw the 73835, that it was not clear as all the TVs around it. Gotta tell you that I'm leaning towards the Sammy - it has incredible reviews all over the web.

Gotta tell you, I looked at the 67A750 next to the 735 (65" & 73") this weekend, and the 67A750 had better PQ (sharper, clearer images) than the Mits. And my wife noticed at another store that we saw the 73835, that it was not clear as all the TVs around it. Gotta tell you that I'm leaning towards the Sammy - it has incredible reviews all over the web.

I had just the opposite impression when I compared the Sammy 67A750 and Mits 73835 side by side at Tweeters. Was completely turned off by the Sammy's chartreuse greens. Clarity was not an issue.

That sounds suspiciously like someone mistaking red push for a good thing.

I think Gary Merson would know red push when he sees it !

Gotta tell you, I looked at the 67A750 next to the 735 (65" & 73") this weekend, and the 67A750 had better PQ (sharper, clearer images) than the Mits. And my wife noticed at another store that we saw the 73835, that it was not clear as all the TVs around it. Gotta tell you that I'm leaning towards the Sammy - it has incredible reviews all over the web.

I had just the opposite impression when I compared the Sammy 67A750 and Mits 73835 side by side at Tweeters. Was completely turned off by the Sammy's chartreuse greens. Clarity was not an issue.

Just goes to show, you can't tell much by comparing torch modes in a store.

I'll bet--and I recently purchased the 67" Sammy-- that BOTH are great sets, once brought home and properly tweaked.:cool:

I think Gary Merson would know red push when he sees it !

Then I guess he needs to explain the comment. Red is red. It shouldn't be too hard to get accurate reds out of a properly calibrated set. If it's displaying a red that is significantly different than what other sets can produce, I can't help but be a bit skeptical.

Just goes to show, you can't tell much by comparing torch modes in a store.

I'll bet--and I recently purchased the 67" Sammy-- that BOTH are great sets, once brought home and properly tweaked.:cool:

Probably one of the truest posts ever written.

Gotta tell you, I looked at the 67A750 next to the 735 (65" & 73") this weekend, and the 67A750 had better PQ (sharper, clearer images) than the Mits. And my wife noticed at another store that we saw the 73835, that it was not clear as all the TVs around it. Gotta tell you that I'm leaning towards the Sammy - it has incredible reviews all over the web.

It's nearly impossible to get an accurate view of the differences between models in a store. 99% of stores just put it on display and turn it on. They don't configure it or calibrate it in any way. Also, most stores use a splitter to send the same signal split many different times to many different TVs. One TV could easily get a crappy signal from the same source while another might get a better signal.

Unfortunately the only true way to get a look would be to have them at home, calibrate them both, and see the differences there side by side viewing the same source material straight from the source itself.

Of course that isn't feasible, so I would suggest looking at as many reviews online (from reputable places) as you can. Then always use that return policy if you're not satisfied when you get it home. :cool:

I had just the opposite impression when I compared the Sammy 67A750 and Mits 73835 side by side at Tweeters. Was completely turned off by the Sammy's chartreuse greens. Clarity was not an issue.
I did notice the chartreuse-ness, but figured it was just a matter of tweaking to get it right. The thing that got me was the lettering clarity. But I'm glad you saw a great picture on the 73835 as I'm still considering it.

So, let's compare the 65835 and the 73835. Only difference is screen size, agreed? If that is the only difference, shouldn't the 65835 have a sharper/clearer picture since it has less screen space to spread the image over?

Probably one of the truest posts ever written.

Aww, shucks! :o

I did notice the chartreuse-ness, but figured it was just a matter of tweaking to get it right. The thing that got me was the lettering clarity. But I'm glad you saw a great picture on the 73835 as I'm still considering it.

So, let's compare the 65835 and the 73835. Only difference is screen size, agreed? If that is the only difference, shouldn't the 65835 have a sharper/clearer picture since it has less screen space to spread the image over?

Yes that is right.

Yes that is right.
So I'm wondering if that is what I saw in the 73", just slightly less sharpness than the 65" because it was blown up more.

So I'm wondering if that is what I saw in the 73", just slightly less sharpness than the 65" because it was blown up more.

You are on a roll:)

You are on a roll:)

Simple math, 180 watt bulb gonna look better on a smaller TV !

You are on a roll:)

Come on Mits....where is the hard info on the Laservue !

So I'm wondering if that is what I saw in the 73", just slightly less sharpness than the 65" because it was blown up more.

So this might be why the guy/gal running the calibration thread had some sharpness on his set then?

My 60 Sony has been set to 0.

Seggers

So this might be why the guy/gal running the calibration thread had some sharpness on his set then?

My 60 Sony has been set to 0.

Seggers

Not all sets have the 0 setting as turning sharpness off. My Mitsi for example has to have the sharpness set to 15 to have the "0" affect. Turning it below 15 softens the picture and almost makes it blurry. The easiest way to check this out is to throw up a sharpness test pattern from a DVD like DVE and set the sharpness to where you get no edge affect. If that's 0, cool. But in my case, it's 15. It really depends on the TV and the manufacturer.

I just gave up waiting. I ordered a HL67A750 yesterday from Amazon. I went to Best Buy and they told me to get it from Amazon because they were not going to go below the MSRP, so I did. The ship date is several weeks away so I guess if the Laservue does come out I could cancel. Good luck to y'all still waiting. I hope you get your Mits.

I just replaced the STK's on my VS-60803 and bought me time for finding LaserVue bargains in a few years. If you can't wait, a Phoenix store had the 73835's at $2800 on Amazon. Your local stores should be having Labor Day blowouts - I'd walk in with a 25 count of $100 bills and set that on the table in front of your local "salesman", maybe have an extra $300 in reserve. Personally, I'm going to white knuckle it with my VS-60803. Let's hope I make it.

I just replaced the STK's on my VS-60803 and bought me time for finding LaserVue bargains in a few years. If you can't wait, a Phoenix store had the 73835's at $2800 on Amazon. Your local stores should be having Labor Day blowouts - I'd walk in with a 25 count of $100 bills and set that on the table in front of your local "salesman", maybe have an extra $300 in reserve. Personally, I'm going to white knuckle it with my VS-60803. Let's hope I make it.

Hmmm, that seems to have gone. I just plugged 73835 into the A and got a figure north of 3.....

Seggers

Why are people giving up on waiting when it was clear it was coming out Q4?

I just gave up waiting. I ordered a HL67A750 yesterday from Amazon. I went to Best Buy and they told me to get it from Amazon because they were not going to go below the MSRP, so I did. The ship date is several weeks away so I guess if the Laservue does come out I could cancel. Good luck to y'all still waiting. I hope you get your Mits.
Be sure to let us know how it goes. Thats' the TV I'm leaning towards right now. Hoping it will be around $1500 in Jan when I'm ready to buy.

Why are people giving up on waiting when it was clear it was coming out Q4?

Q3, actually--at lest for the 65" 73 in Q4.

And originally it was supposed to be last year, or even earlier.

Be sure to let us know how it goes. Thats' the TV I'm leaning towards right now. Hoping it will be around $1500 in Jan when I'm ready to buy.

You won't go wrong, especially if you can get it for that price.

I just replaced the STK's on my VS-60803 and bought me time for finding LaserVue bargains in a few years. If you can't wait, a Phoenix store had the 73835's at $2800 on Amazon. Your local stores should be having Labor Day blowouts - I'd walk in with a 25 count of $100 bills and set that on the table in front of your local "salesman", maybe have an extra $300 in reserve. Personally, I'm going to white knuckle it with my VS-60803. Let's hope I make it.


I bought a 60V805 back in 1999 and I'm about to have my first service call. The remote isn't working. PQ still excellent.:)

Originally Posted by Praxis
Why are people giving up on waiting when it was clear it was coming out Q4?

I guess CEDIA will be the big test. It would be a very bad sign if they don't have firm dates and pricing.

I had just the opposite impression when I compared the Sammy 67A750 and Mits 73835 side by side at Tweeters. Was completely turned off by the Sammy's chartreuse greens. Clarity was not an issue.

In auditioning both the Sammy & Mits, the Mits viewing angle was superior & there was simply more "pop" with the Mits. There was a depth and 3D look and feel to the Mits picture that seemed missing in the Sammy. That said, neither was set up for optimum performance. BUT the Mits still has the better side to side viewing angle AND brighter overall picture. JMO

Classico

The Mits wins until the Sammy goes Darkchip 4.