Wow I think Jesus would have an easier time proving himself here. Poor Mits and their TV. I am waiting however to see what it has to offer.

I'll give it another week 'til CEDIA before I decide to hang up my hat on the laservue bandwagon. I've been waiting for this tech for about two years now and it goes dead I'll be waiting for the 10G Kuros with the ECC.

Too late, purchased the 65835 yesterday....NFL football waits for no TV !

For about a year now the concrete information for this set is always 1-2 weeks away. In 6 months come back, and there will be a a least one post about a possible price and date speculation, and they talked to someone on "the inside" that more info is only a few weeks away. The odds of this TV actually seeing the light of day are decreasing daily.

I believe the third quarter ends on Sep 30.

I believe the third quarter ends on Sep 30.

True, but Cedia ends a lot sooner than that.

No news in Cedia will probably be the death knell for the LV for many on this thread, me included.

I have the funds for a Diamond 73 now. I'm just waiting to see if Mits delivers at Cedia....

Seggers

True, but Cedia ends a lot sooner than that.

No news in Cedia will probably be the death knell for the LV for many on this thread, me included.

I have the funds for a Diamond 73 now. I'm just waiting to see if Mits delivers at Cedia....

Seggers

Agreed -- and, as pointed out, Sept 30th is Q3 end. Given what it takes to get a product into production, if there's nothing at Cedia, that's a bad sign.

My personal opinion is: it's worth waiting until Cedia to decide. Not worth pulling the trigger right now. But that's just me...

True, but Cedia ends a lot sooner than that.

No news in Cedia will probably be the death knell for the LV for many on this thread, me included.

I have the funds for a Diamond 73 now. I'm just waiting to see if Mits delivers at Cedia....

Seggers

With due respect, what happens on this thread is really irrelevant.

With due respect, what happens on this thread is really irrelevant.

I don't think Seggers was suggesting otherwise, just that people who have been following this thread and the development of this technology will have had about enough. :)

I saw the Cedia floorplan and Mitsubishi will have one of the largest space. They will probably show the laser TV but in my view it doesn't mean anything if no shipping date and prices are announced. Most likely they will try to keep the dream alive but with the new 65" Panny plasma selling below 6K I guess the market niche for the laser will be very small. My bet: Forget about it.

Don't expect much from CEDIA. As I posted before, it does not make sense to miss the start of football season in order to make a splash at CEDIA. That's not how TV is marketed.

I hope laservue is reasonably priced. I love the picture of my mits 65831 but i'm on my third bulb in under 20 months. that's unacceptable. their service is beyond horrible, so if i could just a get a product from them that doesn't need a lamp replaced, ever, i would be content. there needs to be pricing by the end of cedia otherwise i may go with a front projector for my next purchase.

Don't expect much from CEDIA. As I posted before, it does not make sense to miss the start of football season in order to make a splash at CEDIA. That's not how TV is marketed.

Well, if it ain't ready, it ain't ready. Olympics/Football are important, but I imagine the holiday shopping season is the most important.

From my perspective, it's not that I was thinking CEDIA would be the big coming out party for them over football/olympics, but it will be first time people *should* be able to get more hands on and get more concrete info -- hopefully. That is, if indeed it is coming soon. No info at CEDIA likely means yet more delays ... should rename it then to PhantomVue.

Well I hope we find out something soon. My 60" Philips RPTV started acting up today. Sometimes it will break up into red/green picture (looks almost like looking at a 3d picture without the glasses) and I have to turn the TV off and then back on to correct it. It has done that about 5 times today so far....all I can find is maybe a board needs resoldering, but I've never soldered so that is probably out of the question. Fingers crossed for CEDIA.

Hold on!! Mitsubishi has updated their Laservue web site! We have a model number now. Its L65-A90 for the 65" The home page still says third quarter. But the product page for the 65" says "Fall 2008." Last week of September is still Q3 and is the beginning of Fall. Hmmmm.

65 inch Product Page (http://www.believingisseeing.tv/products.php)

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/img/prod_hero.jpg

Awesome, well that's good news if they updated their page. It looks as if it may not be ready by September 30th, but it does say fall. Very good, nice find.

Looks like they put up a few pictures of it as well, if the one of it in the living room is the actual picture and not put in by computers....I'm pleased.

Well, it looks like this is happening after all. The site even has a LaserVue 360 shots.

Hold on!! Mitsubishi has updated their Laservue web site! We have a model number now. Its L65-A90 for the 65" The home page still says third quarter. But the product page for the 65" says "Fall 2008." Last week of September is still Q3 and is the beginning of Fall. Hmmmm.


We've known the model number for months!

Even Dec is fall, so maybe before 09 the set will be for sale.

We've known the model number for months!

I must have missed that post or URL. Can you point us to the appropriate reference for this claim?

I must have missed that post or URL. Can you point us to the appropriate reference for this claim?

"for this claim"? Is this a challenge?

http://www.cepro.com/article/mitsubishi_details_laservue_tv/K15

Mitsubishi Details LaserVue TV
LaserVue has a refresh rate of 120Hz and the color gamut is 200 percent, twice the color of today's HDTVs.
By Steve Crowe


06.25.2008 — Mitsubishi is releasing new details about its LaserVue TV, which is based on Texas Instrument's DLP technology.

The LaserVue, first unveiled at CES 2008, will include the 65-inch L65A90 and 73-inch L73A90 models with new laser technology. Mitsubishi is looking to raise the bar for big screen TVs, saying the LaserVue delivers twice the color at half the power of other LCD and plasma TVs.

The LaserVue has a refresh rate of 120Hz and x.v. color. The color gamut has been measured at 200 percent, which is twice the color of today's HDTVs.

It also feature 500 nits of brightness. Mitsubishi also says the LaserVue is "capable of delivering the ultimate 3D viewing experience." The company, unfortunately, didn't go into details about the 3D experience.

The TV consumes under 200 watts of power, which, according to Mitsubishi, is half the power of other LCDs and one-third less than other plasmas.

The LaserVue is about 10-inches deep and is designed for both floorstanding and wall-mount applications.

The 65-inch model, part of the Diamond line, will ship in Q3 2008. The 73-inch L73A90 will be released afterwards, but Mitsubishi did not nail down a specific time frame.

Mitsubishi says several TV manufacturers have tried to bring laser TV to the market to no avail. Will Mitsubishi be successful at changing the future of TV technology? We'll see

With due respect, what happens on this thread is really irrelevant.

you might consider your own advice....

TI is showing off a front projector DLP using LEDSs. I do not know if Samsung will stick with LEDs for their RPTVS, but they may be able to provide a 72" LED driven RPTV very soon. There should no longer be any size limitation now as the new LEDs are so much brighter. I think lasers should have better color, however.

IB

Well, this link says they will be out in November...

http://laser-tv.org/2008/coming-soonfall-2008/

Late November... at that.

Glad to see that it will be out befor Christmas like I said. Now if i can only pick the lotto numbers.

Well, this link says they will be out in November...

http://laser-tv.org/2008/coming-soonfall-2008/

I have to agree with the comment posted in this website.

Get on with it already Mits.

Plus, there's no mention of any sort of release date for the 73.... :mad:

Seggers

I'm looking to buy around April so hopefully the 73 will be out and be all that by then....maybe even the first price drop as well :P

http://laser-tv.org/2008/coming-soonfall-2008/

Wow. That's a good looking set. It looks like a 73" set rather than a 65" though.

What is this "3-D" process they are talking about? Do you have to wear glasses for this like the old 3-D movies of the 60s?

IB

Waite to you see it live. I will be buying 73 when it come's out. You will all love it when you see it

You've seen it?

I'm all for this new technology( Since Plasma and LCDs still can't perform as well as a CRT), but what I'm worried about is if they don't release a 50" Model, and that's really all I want. But if you look at current new DLP sets, they're all 61" and up.

LaserVue on the other hand are offering a 65" and a 73" in 08', but they're just too big(for me anyways) and will cost alittle too much on top of it. Honestly, Mitsubishi would be crazy not to make at least a 50", I mean why wouldn't they?

I'm all for this new technology( plasma and LCDs still can't perform as well a a CRT), but what I'm worried about is if they don't release a 50" and that's really all i want. 65" and a 73" are just too big(for me anyways) and will cost alittle too much on top of it.

It will only be in 65" and 73" sizes.

I'm all for this new technology( Since Plasma and LCDs still can't perform as well as a CRT), but what I'm worried about is if they don't release a 50" Model, and that's really all I want. But if you look at current new DLP sets, they're all 61" and up.

LaserVue on the other hand are offering a 65" and a 73" in 08', but they're just too big(for me anyways) and will cost alittle too much on top of it. Honestly, Mitsubishi would be crazy not to make at least a 50", I mean why wouldn't they?

Perhaps not crazy to NOT make a 50". The sub-56" market is pretty cutthroat. Plenty of plasmas, LCD, DLP sets in a lower price range. The only way to truly compete with large plasmas at this point is to go big, literally. At least, IMHO. There's no way a 50" LaserVue could compete with the ever falling prices of plasma, LCD, and DLP sets.

People looking for the best picture for a home theater may have a bit more discretionary income so if they are looking in the 65"+ market, LaserVue may be a compelling choice. But time is ticking. Even if the product hasn't been released yet, its price is falling. The 1080p 65"+ plasmas have dropped significantly this year already. Laservue will have to hit for the holidays, I would think, to have a chance to succeed.

I wonder since they pushed the 65 inch to release in November if that means the 73 will come out Q1 or Q2 of '09. Hope not, hopefully since it got pushed back they can still release both by the end of the holiday season. I don't mind buying into a new tech, but I want to wait a couple of months at least to see reviews and read others experiences to make sure it is "all that and a bag of chips" lol.

They really do have to stay in the 60"+ range in order to compete with plasma and LCD. They have been around alot longer and are able to offer cheap prices since they have the technology developed whereas the laservue is new and the production costs are high and they still havent worked out all the quirks (obviously by the never-ending delays).

TI is showing off a front projector DLP using lasers.

IB

I think that's LED, not laser. I haven't heard of any front projector using laser yet.

Sorry, I meant to say LED, not laser. Laser front projectors will come soon, however, and will be over 1000 lumens right from the start according to the laser companies.

I disagree with the poster who said that plasma and LCD flat panel TVs were not as good as CRT RPTVs. My old 51" CRT set is one of the best ever made, a top notch Toshiba model from 2003 that was picked best picture of the year by experts, but the new LCD and plasma sets have a much better picture with more pop. The new 52" 1080 LCD sets are hard to beat, and the price is very reasonable these days. I wish Mitsubishi would come out with an 85" laser TV, not just the 73" model. A 50" laser set would be a losing proposition for them.

IB

[QUOTE=WaveBoy;14569680]I'm all for this new technology( Since Plasma and LCDs still can't perform as well as a CRT)

Oh no, not this again. No projection CRT is as good as the Pioneer Elite 151. If you haven't seen an ISF calibrated Elite, you haven't seen what plasma can do. Now if you mean a tube CRT, like the Sony 34XBR960, on an absolute basis I agree with you. But tube CRT's aren't big screens, so whats the point?

I had a calibrated Elite 510, one of the best RPTV CRT's, and the Elite 151 is far superior. I haven't bought the 151 because I want a bigger set that draws less power, not because of it's quality.

[QUOTE=WaveBoy;14569680]I'm all for this new technology( Since Plasma and LCDs still can't perform as well as a CRT)

Oh no, not this again. No projection CRT is as good as the Pioneer Elite 151. If you haven't seen an ISF calibrated Elite, you haven't seen what plasma can do. Now if you mean a tube CRT, like the Sony 34XBR960, on an absolute basis I agree with you. But tube CRT's aren't big screens, so whats the point?

I had a calibrated Elite 510, one of the best RPTV CRT's, and the Elite 151 is far superior. I haven't bought the 151 because I want a bigger set that draws less power, not because of it's quality.

Yep, i'm talking Tube CRTs of course. I have a Sony 32" Wega Trinitron CRT SDTV and the color, blacks and obviously motion are perfect. LaserVue will obviously match it in terms of color and blacks...But again, if a 65" is going to be mitsiubishis smallest size, i'm going to be totaly dissapointed

But ya, as of now, i was thinking of going with the Samsung PN50A550 Plasma...but i'm still not too sure if i wan't to.

Here you go - http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Tube-TVs/sem/rpsm/c/1/catOid/-12868/N/20012866+20012867+20012868/link/ref/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do

Circuit City only has one single CRT TV listed on their website. Some people still like 45 rmp records. :)

IB

Too late, purchased the 65835 yesterday....NFL football waits for no TV !

Re-thinking this purchase since the Lasers look like they may be coming out after all !

Re-thinking this purchase since the Lasers look like they may be coming out after all !

If i was going 65" you better believe I'd wait for LaserVue, which will be hitting in late Sept(so they say)

Anyways, if i were you i'd return the set.

Here you go - http://www.circuitcity.com/ssm/Tube-TVs/sem/rpsm/c/1/catOid/-12868/N/20012866+20012867+20012868/link/ref/rpem/ccd/categorylist.do

Circuit City only has one single CRT TV listed on their website. Some people still like 45 rmp records. :)

IB


And how many Laser TV Models are listed on their site:rolleyes:

And how many Laser TV Models are listed on their site:rolleyes:

35 :D ..but I can't get any of those pages to load. ;)

...what I'm worried about is if they don't release a 50"Model, and that's really all I want. ... Mitsubishi would be crazy not to make at least a 50", I mean why wouldn't they?

Because the smaller sizes are locked up by LCD flat-panels. The only market room left for projection sets is big. Not everyone likes LCD flat-panels but they are the exception. Most of the customers of smaller sets don't know the difference between the different TV technologies. They want thin, cheap and reliable sets with a decent picture.

I can see a time when on-line sales of of smaller volumes of specialty sets, including maybe smaller projection sets, could develop, but the industry has to mature more. Right now companies need big sales volume to write off the R&D costs.

If i was going 65" you better believe I'd wait for LaserVue, which will be hitting in late Sept(so they say)

Anyways, if i were you i'd return the set.


Luckily I havt taken delivery of the TV yet! Gonna go and cancel the deal today. I will watch my Samsung 6188 until the laser comes out !

Because the smaller sizes are locked up by LCD flat-panels. The only market room left for projection sets is big. Not everyone likes LCD flat-panels but they are the exception. Most of the customers of smaller sets don't know the difference between the different TV technologies. They want thin, cheap and reliable sets with a decent picture.

I can see a time when on-line sales of of smaller volumes of specialty sets, including maybe smaller projection sets, could develop, but the industry has to mature more. Right now companies need big sales volume to write off the R&D costs.

RPTV just doesn't have much of a future, and what future it does have will most likely not include smaller sets.

The Laservue, if it does become a reality, may be the last great microdisplay RPTV, like what the 9" CRT RPTV was.

Because the smaller sizes are locked up by LCD flat-panels. The only market room left for projection sets is big. Not everyone likes LCD flat-panels but they are the exception. Most of the customers of smaller sets don't know the difference between the different TV technologies. They want thin, cheap and reliable sets with a decent picture.

I can see a time when on-line sales of of smaller volumes of specialty sets, including maybe smaller projection sets, could develop, but the industry has to mature more. Right now companies need big sales volume to write off the R&D costs.

Ya but LaserVue offers better color, better blacks and motion than any LCD not to mention Plasma, but they probably will make a LaserVue display in th 50- 60" area, maybe who knows....And i honestly dont really see a future with LaserVue unless it somehow goes flat panel. OLED is probably going to dominate

Ya but LaserVue offers better color, better blacks and motion than any LCD not to mention Plasma...

This isn't a given yet. Pioneer plasmas have almost perfect black levels now and next year perfection will be reached. LED LCDs can get perfect blacks depending on the on screen content. We still don't know what laservue is capable of at this time.

Better colors? That may not necessarily be true. It is supposed to have a wider color range but how accurate the colors are depends on how Mitsubishi calibrates the displays OOTB.

Both LCD and plasma have room for improvements in motion handling IMO.

This isn't a given yet. Pioneer plasmas have almost perfect black levels now and next year perfection will be reached. LED LCDs can get perfect blacks depending on the on screen content. We still don't know what laservue is capable of at this time.

Better colors? That may not necessarily be true. It is supposed to have a wider color range but how accurate the colors are depends on how Mitsubishi calibrates the displays OOTB.

Both LCD and plasma have room for improvements in motion handling IMO.

As far as motion goes, how fast is a Plasma or a DLP compared to a CRT?
As of now, CRT is the only tech that can handle Motion perfectly.

Ya but LaserVue offers better color, better blacks and motion than any LCD not to mention Plasma, but they probably will make a LaserVue display in th 50- 60" area, maybe who knows....And i honestly dont really see a future with LaserVue unless it somehow goes flat panel. OLED is probably going to dominate

Are you ready to disclose where you've seen a Laservue upon which you've based these conclusions? Do you have specs and measurements? Mitsubishi sets have never been known for accurate color. While I hope the Laservue will equal the black level of the 9G Pioneer, nobody knows if it will or not. The fact that we all hope that Mitsubishi hits a home run with Laservue doesn't mean they have or will. It certainly is no basis to make claims such as yours that are well premature.

While you are jumping the gun, I'm still rooting that you turn out to be right.

As far as motion goes, how fast is a Plasma or a DLP compared to a CRT?
As of now, CRT is the only tech that can handle Motion perfectly.

What are you basing this on?

Are you ready to disclose where you've seen a Laservue upon which you've based these conclusions? Do you have specs and measurements? Mitsubishi sets have never been known for accurate color. While I hope the Laservue will equal the black level of the 9G Pioneer, nobody knows if it will or not. The fact that we all hope that Mitsubishi hits a home run with Laservue doesn't mean they have or will. It certainly is no basis to make claims such as yours that are well premature.

While you are jumping the gun, I'm still rooting that you turn out to be right.


I read a couple of articles, and one of the guys who saw them in person said their PQ is second to none. So no there's no official specs or whatever ect, but for the people who have seen them in person that sort of says enough right there...But as far as color accuracy goes, who knows.
As it stand, they'll be out soon, so lets just wait and see.

What are you basing this on?

What do you mean, it's been said CRTs handle motion perfectly, there's no motion problems whatsoever. Videogames(for example) perform perfectly on a CRT

As far as motion goes, how fast is a Plasma or a DLP compared to a CRT?
As of now, CRT is the only tech that can handle Motion perfectly.

No motion issues on my DLP.

What do you mean, it's been said CRTs handle motion perfectly

Just because CRTs can handle motion perfectly doesn't mean that other technologies can't. And what exactly are you referring to? Response times? Refresh rates being in synch with the source framerate? Decay time? The only tech that is GENEALLY at a disadvantage compared to the others is LCD (and even that has improved a lot).

Motion issues generally stem from pixels being on for the full duration of a frame (the way an LCD works), rather than being turned on very briefly before returning to black (the way a CRT works).

Of course, DLPs turn pixels on for varying amounts of time in order to generate different colors via pulse width modulation. This means that depending on the brightness of a scene, it will have varying amounts of "motion issues" (generally stuttering or blurring).

The brighter the moving object is, the more you will see blurring and stuttering. Darker objects return to a black pixel more quickly, and thus have fewer motion issues.

120Hz framerates with interpolation or black frame insertion help to eliminate this issue with all technologies.

http://www.wigix.com/index.php/item/detail/1127694/Mitsubishi-DLP-Rear-Projection-TV---73--LaserVue-True-Dimension-Experience

I think they are just guesstimating the price.

Folks - anyone can register on Wigix and then then suggest updates to a catalog page via the "edit this page" function. That's the beauty behind community generated content...the more community involvment the better the information that can be consumed by all.

Just a thought about Mitsubishi. They actually haven't been pounding there chest (at least not as hard) like a lot of companies trying to build brand/technology power prior to bringing out a product!
I would be willing to bet that they have something going on and are just making sure all there "ducks" are in order before pulling the trigger on the public. They fully realize that Samsung is in the wings so to speak with a semi proved led technology, so if they are continuing to come forward with the product, I bet they have something up there sleeve.

Changeling

Motion issues generally stem from pixels being on for the full duration of a frame (the way an LCD works), rather than being turned on very briefly before returning to black (the way a CRT works).

Of course, DLPs turn pixels on for varying amounts of time in order to generate different colors via pulse width modulation. This means that depending on the brightness of a scene, it will have varying amounts of "motion issues" (generally stuttering or blurring).

The brighter the moving object is, the more you will see blurring and stuttering. Darker objects return to a black pixel more quickly, and thus have fewer motion issues.

120Hz framerates with interpolation or black frame insertion help to eliminate this issue with all technologies.

There are no motion issues with this type switching. It is based on well known Sampling Theory considerations and done in accordance with required Nyquist Rates. This is the same theory that governs the digitization of all sorts of signals with given finite bandwidths. If you know the rate at which these lines are marched out, you can rigorously determine the required switching rate. In this case y ou multiply that rate by three, one for each of RGB. So long as you are not going slower than the required Rate, y ou can rigorously reproduce the underlying analogue signal to within the sampling noise. Any claims to the contrary would invalidate the entire real of digital processing theory and application.

Just a thought about Mitsubishi. They actually haven't been pounding there chest (at least not as hard) like a lot of companies trying to build brand/technology power prior to bringing out a product!
I would be willing to bet that they have something going on and are just making sure all there "ducks" are in order before pulling the trigger on the public. They fully realize that Samsung is in the wings so to speak with a semi proved led technology, so if they are continuing to come forward with the product, I bet they have something up there sleeve.

Changeling

"Semi-proved"?

3d generation, beautiful sets that are selling like hotcakes and cost about one third of what these Laservues will cost.

That is, if they even materialize beyond the Vaporware phase, which is by no means a sure deal.

"Semi-proved"?

3d generation, beautiful sets that are selling like hotcakes and cost about one third of what these Laservues will cost.

That is, if they even materialize beyond the Vaporware phase, which is by no means a sure deal.

when does Cedia start ???

I think it officially opened today, but the tradeshow starts Thursday.

If Laservue is coming out soon maybe there will be some word at CEDIA. However, I'm not sure Mitsubishi attends those shows as I don't think they do at CES either. I could be wrong though.

... I'm not sure Mitsubishi attends those shows as I don't think they do at CES either. ...


As I recall they had a presentation in the city but at a separate location from CES.

If Laservue is coming out soon maybe there will be some word at CEDIA. However, I'm not sure Mitsubishi attends those shows as I don't think they do at CES either. I could be wrong though.
...
I saw the Cedia floorplan and Mitsubishi will have one of the largest space.

As I recall they had a presentation in the city but at a separate location from CES.

Forgot about that one. That's where Laservue was debuted.:o

[QUOTE=egrady;14570269]

Yep, i'm talking Tube CRTs of course. I have a Sony 32" Wega Trinitron CRT SDTV and the color, blacks and obviously motion are perfect. LaserVue will obviously match it in terms of color and blacks....


Obviously? What makes you say that they will have ultra accurate color points, greyscale and infinite blacks?

If Laservue is coming out soon maybe there will be some word at CEDIA. However, I'm not sure Mitsubishi attends those shows as I don't think they do at CES either. I could be wrong though.

There is a blurb at Mit's Cedia page that says they will be introducing the LaserVue, there. Also, i would think they would be particularly intrested in thes Custom Installer folks, perhaps thinking that these sets would be optimal for Custom "in wall' type theater installs. This, perhaps, to defend against some of the flat panel mania out there. These brighter, thinner sets should make for beautiful custom installs.

[QUOTE=WaveBoy;14570389]


Obviously? What makes you say that they will have ultra accurate color points, greyscale and infinite blacks?

If you believe(as I know), that arbitrary colors are comprised as a superposition of RGB, then three discrete lasers with their infinitesimal wavelength spans and electronically controlled output levels, will provide rock solid colors. Each of these emitters can be monitored independently with a small photocell and the output levels can easily be servo controlled. Then, if , for example: White = Constant(R+ G + B), then white is immutably fixed. Then if Mid Gray is 50% white, this is controlled by a mere change in the pulse width on the DMD. So mid gray is fixed immutably so long as white is fixed. And on and on.
Now regarding Black levels which nearly everyone is preoccupied with these days, I have often felt that we need to have a technical discussion of what is required for good performance on this aspect. When I think of diminished Black level performance, my mind is naturally led to thoughts of excess scattering of background light. When you think about a laser based implementation, you first note that these beams are very narrow and tightly controlled compared to the emissions from High Pressure Lamp. Indeed if the beam were not fixed and Gausssian, the laser would not be lasing. These are single mode lasers and people have known how to write down the geometry of such beams for many decades. These beams are focused on the DMD pixels, which are highly polished mirrors such that there is little or no scattering off the DMDs, in my view. There remains the the Off State Reflections from the DMD which have to be trapped and absorbed and the reflections off the back side of the screen. It's not trivial to manage these background sources but there are many, very well established Optical Ray Tracing Programs which allow developers to simulate the behavior of such back ground radiation(as function of absorber pptys and enclosure geometry). Suffice it to say that this can be deterministically tweaked.

These beams are focused on the DMD pixels, which are highly polished mirrors such that there is little or no scattering off the DMDs, in my view.
If I read this correctly, are you of the belief that the lasers will "scan" to each individual DLP cell? If so, why even use DLP? While I have no idea, and I'm curious as to how it will be implemented, I've been assuming they are going to somehow diffuse the laser beam before it gets to the DLP. I would also think they would need to somehow diffuse the laser output to reduce speckle pattern.

Well, this link says they will be out in November...

http://laser-tv.org/2008/coming-soonfall-2008/
i am confused. the link you provided says it will be released by the end of the month.
there is no mention of "november" in that link.
Did you attach the wrong link?

If I read this correctly, are you of the belief that the lasers will "scan" to each individual DLP cell? If so, why even use DLP? While I have no idea, and I'm curious as to how it will be implemented, I've been assuming they are going to somehow diffuse the laser beam before it gets to the DLP. I would also think they would need to somehow diffuse the laser output to reduce speckle pattern.


No, I am not saying that. I am saying exactly what I said. Nothing more.

No, I am not saying that. I am saying exactly what I said. Nothing more.

You say that as if you interpreted my question as being accusatory, which is not what I intended. I've been curious as to how they are going to take a laser beam and spread it across the surface of a DLP chip. The only two options that I can imagine are either actively scanning it across the chip, or somehow spreading (diffusing) the beam. Scanning seems unlikely, because the DLP would seem unnecessary in that case. But diffusing would seem contrary to your statement of the beam being focused on the individual pixels. Your statement made me curious if you had any specifics of how they are achieving this.

woa, woa brain overload, too much tech-savy jive' going on here. jk:p

Anyways, we can talk this and talk that about LaserVue, but it doesn't really matter. What matters is when LaserVue actually gets a true release date in 08' and how it performs. Oh and by the way(non related), Samsung has just released their Series '9' LCDs which are the greatest LCDs on the market(for now). But really, the day I actually start caring for LCDs is when they actually get rid of motionblur, 4ms just doesn't cut it and the crazy high price tag just makes it worse.

Anyways, CRT all the way, and maybe alittle Plasma and some LED DLP on the side ;)

i am confused. the link you provided says it will be released by the end of the month.
there is no mention of "november" in that link.
Did you attach the wrong link?

It originally said late November... look at the comments below on the webpage, another guy was moaning about it too. They apparently changed their tune... But now they are qualifying it by saying that you may not be able to buy until after Thanksgiving... I wonder if Mits made them change this?

Not much info from CEDIA. Looks like it won't be Q3 2008. If it is not released by 09/30, it will officially become LaterVue. If it is not released by Superbowl, then it will be in the VaporVue category.

You say that as if you interpreted my question as being accusatory, which is not what I intended. I've been curious as to how they are going to take a laser beam and spread it across the surface of a DLP chip. The only two options that I can imagine are either actively scanning it across the chip, or somehow spreading (diffusing) the beam. Scanning seems unlikely, because the DLP would seem unnecessary in that case. But diffusing would seem contrary to your statement of the beam being focused on the individual pixels. Your statement made me curious if you had any specifics of how they are achieving this.

Hi Darin,

No, I did not take your comments as accusatory. I only had a minute to reply and didn't want you or others to misconstrue my remarks. In a nutshell, the DLP chip works as before. The entire set of mirrors is illuminated in each instant but only those in the ON state will be pointed towards the screen. All the rest will dump their light into a Black Hole. The point is if this Black Hole is sufficiently baffled and absorbent, this can be made to work well.
Someone said there is too much Tech savvy jive. Well I can assure him and others that this is done with great reluctance. From time to time some folks make really wild and erroneously negative claims that really need to be counterbalanced. Often times, here, it's as though there is some sort of naturally adverse reaction to this particular product-- even before the fact.

I visited a Diamond dealer today. He still has NO "official" word on price or availability. BUT this dealer (I was speaking to the owner) said that Mitusbishi has made it clear that it is their intention to meet the flat screens head-on. To that end, Mitsubishi plans that they will offer the LaserVue at a $400-500 premium over their current Diamond line.

The concern, at least in the beginning, is Mitsubishi's ability to produce the LaserVue in sufficient quantity and quality. For them, this is a crucial learning curve. When it does FINALLY come to market they MUST have sufficient inventory to supply all their Diamond dealers. That means 1 to show and more to go. This does not happen over night. It would be patently UNFAIR if Mitsubishi only supplied SOME of its Diamond dealers with product.

How many Diamond dealers are there? Multiply that times 2 or 3.
Are there production/quality control issues? Who knows? From what I can gather, Mits (home theater div) is pretty much betting the farm on this technology with hopes of converting a LOT of LCD/Plasma prospects to this NEXT GENERATION RPTV.

Classico

http://laser-tv.org/laser-tv-launch-date/

Mitsubishi’s large screen LaserVue Laser TV will initially be available only at “high-end” Mitsubishi Diamond retailers, so don’t expect to see a Laser TV at your local electronics store until well into 2009. If you live in Europe or Australia, you will probably have to wait even longer, as no plans for distribution outside of North America have been announced.

How much will a Laser TV cost?

Prices have not been announced by Mitsubishi, but it appears the high-end market will be the initial target audience. However, prices are still expected to be “competitive” with flat panel displays, so expect the initial 65-inch LaserVue to sell for about $4,000. Laser TVs may eventually cost less to produce than plasma and LCD models, as the manufacturing costs of laser components are reduced. Laser engine developer Novalux stated a 50-inch Laser TV could eventually sell for less than $1,000!

Laser-TV.org will keep you posted as more information becomes available.

A 50" OLED TV could eventually sell for under $1K. But not anytime soon.
And for RP sets at that size it seems like that market is gone.

Take it for what it is worth, but while doing a major OB replacement for me today I asked a key tech person i know from a major Mitsubishi Chain (yes Diamond) that I have known for years about what he had heard about the Laservue. The guy has never BS'ed me and knows that I know what I am talking about, so much that they ordered a new OB for my TV without coming out first to verify the problem (something that very few stores would be willing to do on a part worth around $1500 on a warranty replacement).

He stated that he knew nothing about them yet, but they were sending him to train for them in December.

I obviously asked, what if they come out before December and had an issue?

He said, he suspected they would just exchange them out if that DID happen.

As crazy as that sounds, considering I have had about 6 TVs changed out by them, I don't find the answer BS.

Take it for what it is worth, but while doing a major OB replacement for me today I asked a key tech person i know from a major Mitsubishi Chain (yes Diamond) that I have known for years about what he had heard about the Laservue. The guy has never BS'ed me and knows that I know what I am talking about, so much that they ordered a new OB for my TV without coming out first to verify the problem (something that very few stores would be willing to do on a part worth around $1500 on a warranty replacement).

He stated that he knew nothing about them yet, but they were sending him to train for them in December.

I obviously asked, what if they come out before December and had an issue?

He said, he suspected they would just exchange them out if that DID happen.

As crazy as that sounds, considering I have had about 6 TVs changed out by them, I don't find the answer BS.

When the heck are we going n to get some real info from Mits about these sets ! They ar making me sick !!!!!!!!!! I want to know avaliability and pricing info stat. if they not coming out soon I will just buy a Diamond or perhaps a Samsung or Panny plasma. Mits is getting on my last nerve with this no info crap. Better be some real info this week or im fortgetting about them !

TV Makers See Good Q4, Voice Support For Circuit

Quote from TWICE by

Max Wasinger, sales and marketing senior VP for Mitsubishi, has seen growth and expects continued good sales for DLP and flat-panel TVs as the fall season approaches. He expects, "No problem with inventories," but there might always be "occasional spot shortages."

He noted, "There are strong sales for HD at retail," but the problem is that "volumes may be up, but profits are still challenged" and that retailers must still get "footprints into their stores."

Wasinger said that Mitsubishi, which showed its 3-D DLP package, immersive-sound LCD TVs and its LaserVue HD DLP line, here, is a "niche player" that provides "value-added products," which is why the company values a diverse retail channel.

If Mits does bring Laservues out for $500 over a competetively priced plasma/lcd it's going to be much more of a $500 difference.

For example, Samsung just released their local dimming LCDs (950 series) and like the 81 series last year they are only available in select high end stores and discounts on these are slim. However something like a Pioneer Kuro 6020 has been discounted by 25% or more from the release date. So if Laservue for example had an MSRP of $500 over a 6020 we could be talking a difference of $2000 for a 65" model. :eek:

If Mits does bring Laservues out for $500 over a competetively priced plasma/lcd it's going to be much more of a $500 difference.


I think they were talking about a $500 premium over a diamond lamp based DLP.

If they're really thinking $500 premium over LCD/plasma, well....

So the CEDIA tradeshow was supposed to start today, so shouldn't Mits be displaying their goods as we speak? Anyone got any contacts that are there or anyone reading this in CEDIA? Updates if you got them please :)

So the CEDIA tradeshow was supposed to start today, so shouldn't Mits be displaying their goods as we speak? Anyone got any contacts that are there or anyone reading this in CEDIA? Updates if you got them please :)

Engadget is pumping out articles about gear at CEDIA etc.

EndgagetHD Articles (http://www.engadgethd.com/)

So far not a word about ANYTHING from Mistubishi. Are they even there? :confused:

Dan

Engadget is pumping out articles about gear at CEDIA etc.

EndgagetHD Articles (http://www.engadgethd.com/)

So far not a word about ANYTHING from Mistubishi. Are they even there? :confused:

Dan

This is sad ! Mits is sorry !

Yep, it is not looking very promising right now.

This is sad ! Mits is sorry !

So much for Mits having a lot of floor space at Cedia ! If the laser is not coming out just say so Mits...stop pussy-footing around !

I'm as anxious as the next guy, but Cedia runs through Sunday and not everyone blows their load the first day. It might not come to pass, but have a bit of patience.

It seems like LaserVue HDTVs will handle motion in an almost simular fasion as CRTs do, if i'm correct...or artifacts that is.

I just found this interesting tidbit.

"Laser TV is reported to eliminate double imaging and motion artifacts by strobing the image similar to the way that a CRT works. [23] Laser TV is generally not yet available, and the results are not confirmed to solve the problem, but claims have been made on television broadcasts such as KRON 4 News' Coverage of Laser TV from October 2006

LaserVue should handle motion EXACTLY the same as DLP (since it is DLP). So there's no need to guess about their motion capabilities... just go to Best Buy and look at one. DLP has extremely fast response time. The decay time of phosphors on CRT make it handle motion a little differently, but for practical purposes (handling images from no more than +60fps source material), they are both more than sufficient. Since LaserVue (as well as other current DLPs from Mits and Samsung) can do 120hz for 3D content, you can bet they won't have a problem with 24, 30, and 60 fps content from a mechanical perspective. Whether or not they can handle 24fps content properly, without judder, is a completley different topic that las less to do with the display technology, and more to do with the signal processing.

First off my credentials relative to TV sets and new technology is basically nil (intend to correct that). My interest and reason for coming to this web site is I need a new TV.

That said, there is a hell of a lot I know about companies (all companies that interest me).
It seems that few of the people here know much on that subject so let me enlighten you on a few things.

When a company, in this case a large company has a product they intend to market they have what is called the "Market approach for the product", meaning what does the consumer want/whats there now/profitability outlook. This is a VERY brief series of events that the product will go through it is extremely more complicated. Think about it, this is a very reasonable attitude by "most" companies, of course everything is a gamble because you never know what the "competitor companies" are doing, read that as exactly, then you have the consumer direction! That can sometimes be anyones guess, therefore exasperating the whole dam scenario of bringing a product to "the market".

So, now you have Mitsubishi wanting to come to market to sell you ( the consumer) a product. They have to ask themselves if they can compete with others?
If yes, they will come on full steam, but through the whole scenario they will test the waters so to speak CONSTANTLY including this and all major forums because the l3esser always relates to the larger. So if you see delays it could be they are unsure about bringing it to the market or the real big question, "How much will the consumer spend", and a couple hundred other items.

So all companies have different levels of approach and the number and caliber of people associated with the situation, meaning product release. Welcome to business 101!

Changeling

http://orlandobarrozo.blog.br/?p=1221

Google Translation: Spanish » English

Sim, estou falando da TV a laser, a LaserVue, que a Mitsubishi tanto anunciou. Acabei de vê-la funcionando aqui na CEDIA Expo, em Denver, onde fica em demonstração até domingo. A Mitsubishi garante que vai estar nas melhores lojas dos EUA (não todas) em outubro. Custará US$ 7.000 e, por enquanto, não será vendida em nenhum outro país. Bem, é arriscado falar sobre uma demonstração feita num evento aberto – embora a CEDIA não abra ao público em geral, devem estar passando por aqui uns 10 mil profissionais. Vi muita gente de boca aberta diante da LaserVue, com cara de “milagre”. Mas não posso garantir nada sobre a qualidade da imagem. O que sei é que foi corajosa a atitude da Mitsubishi de colocar o produto para funcionar em espaço aberto, com todas as luzes de eventos como este. Nessas condições absolutamente desfavoráveis, a LaserVue me pareceu muito boa. De cara, dá pra dizer que o contraste é melhor que o do LCD (mas inferior ao do plasma). Já, já, volto a comentar o assunto. Tem muita coisa para ver aqui na CEDIA Expo.
Sim, estou Fala gives a laser TV, LaserVue, which both Mitsubishi ANUNCIOU. Acabei of the running here vê-na Cedia Expo, in Denver, where fica em demonstração until Sunday. A Mitsubishi guarantor that vai be nas best two U.S. shops (não all) outubro em. Custer and U.S. $ 7,000, while, não will be sold em nenhum outro country.

Bem, é uma Arriscadas falar on demonstração feita num aberto event - although open to cedi não ao public in general, devem be passando Here uns 10 thousand professionals. I saw people muita mouth aberta through da LaserVue, com face "miracle". More posso did not guarantee anything about a given image quality. Or that sei is that courage was given to Mitsubishi atitude of placing the product to run em aberto space, with all the light of events like this. Nessas conditions absolutely desfavoráveis, LaserVue me pareceu very good. Looking ahead, which gives pra dizer or contrast é melhor do that or LCD (more or less do plasma).

Ha, ha, volto to comment or assunto. Tem muita coisa to see here na Cedia Expo.

LaserVue should handle motion EXACTLY the same as DLP (since it is DLP). So there's no need to guess about their motion capabilities... just go to Best Buy and look at one. DLP has extremely fast response time. The decay time of phosphors on CRT make it handle motion a little differently, but for practical purposes (handling images from no more than +60fps source material), they are both more than sufficient. Since LaserVue (as well as other current DLPs from Mits and Samsung) can do 120hz for 3D content, you can bet they won't have a problem with 24, 30, and 60 fps content from a mechanical perspective. Whether or not they can handle 24fps content properly, without judder, is a completley different topic that las less to do with the display technology, and more to do with the signal processing.


So your assumption (and I would tend to agree) that when you put a cross-pattern on the screen, its not going to be straight as DLP really cannot get straight lines. I am expecting this to have most of the traits of the DLP, but have been waiting to actually confirm instead of speculate.

http://orlandobarrozo.blog.br/?p=1221

Google Translation: Spanish » English

Sim, estou falando da TV a laser, a LaserVue, que a Mitsubishi tanto anunciou. Acabei de vê-la funcionando aqui na CEDIA Expo, em Denver, onde fica em demonstração até domingo. A Mitsubishi garante que vai estar nas melhores lojas dos EUA (não todas) em outubro. Custará US$ 7.000 e, por enquanto, não será vendida em nenhum outro país. Bem, é arriscado falar sobre uma demonstração feita num evento aberto – embora a CEDIA não abra ao público em geral, devem estar passando por aqui uns 10 mil profissionais. Vi muita gente de boca aberta diante da LaserVue, com cara de “milagre”. Mas não posso garantir nada sobre a qualidade da imagem. O que sei é que foi corajosa a atitude da Mitsubishi de colocar o produto para funcionar em espaço aberto, com todas as luzes de eventos como este. Nessas condições absolutamente desfavoráveis, a LaserVue me pareceu muito boa. De cara, dá pra dizer que o contraste é melhor que o do LCD (mas inferior ao do plasma). Já, já, volto a comentar o assunto. Tem muita coisa para ver aqui na CEDIA Expo.
Sim, estou Fala gives a laser TV, LaserVue, which both Mitsubishi ANUNCIOU. Acabei of the running here vê-na Cedia Expo, in Denver, where fica em demonstração until Sunday. A Mitsubishi guarantor that vai be nas best two U.S. shops (não all) outubro em. Custer and U.S. $ 7,000, while, não will be sold em nenhum outro country.

Bem, é uma Arriscadas falar on demonstração feita num aberto event - although open to cedi não ao public in general, devem be passando Here uns 10 thousand professionals. I saw people muita mouth aberta through da LaserVue, com face "miracle". More posso did not guarantee anything about a given image quality. Or that sei is that courage was given to Mitsubishi atitude of placing the product to run em aberto space, with all the light of events like this. Nessas conditions absolutely desfavoráveis, LaserVue me pareceu very good. Looking ahead, which gives pra dizer or contrast é melhor do that or LCD (more or less do plasma).

Ha, ha, volto to comment or assunto. Tem muita coisa to see here na Cedia Expo.

Much better results if you use Portuguese to English

http://www.google.com/translate?u=http%3A%2F%2Forlandobarrozo.blog.br%2F%3Fp%3D122 1&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&sl=pt&tl=en

Yep, it is not looking very promising right now.

hmmmmmm.......I suspect you are not really at CEDIA.


http://orlandobarrozo.blog.br/?p=1221

Google Translation: Spanish » English

Sim, estou falando da TV a laser, a LaserVue, que a Mitsubishi tanto anunciou. Acabei de vê-la funcionando aqui na CEDIA Expo, em Denver, onde fica em demonstração até domingo. A Mitsubishi garante que vai estar nas melhores lojas dos EUA (não todas) em outubro. Custará US$ 7.000 e, por enquanto, não será vendida em nenhum outro país. Bem, é arriscado falar sobre uma demonstração feita num evento aberto – embora a CEDIA não abra ao público em geral, devem estar passando por aqui uns 10 mil profissionais. Vi muita gente de boca aberta diante da LaserVue, com cara de “milagre”. Mas não posso garantir nada sobre a qualidade da imagem. O que sei é que foi corajosa a atitude da Mitsubishi de colocar o produto para funcionar em espaço aberto, com todas as luzes de eventos como este. Nessas condições absolutamente desfavoráveis, a LaserVue me pareceu muito boa. De cara, dá pra dizer que o contraste é melhor que o do LCD (mas inferior ao do plasma). Já, já, volto a comentar o assunto. Tem muita coisa para ver aqui na CEDIA Expo.
Sim, estou Fala gives a laser TV, LaserVue, which both Mitsubishi ANUNCIOU. Acabei of the running here vê-na Cedia Expo, in Denver, where fica em demonstração until Sunday. A Mitsubishi guarantor that vai be nas best two U.S. shops (não all) outubro em. Custer and U.S. $ 7,000, while, não will be sold em nenhum outro country.

Bem, é uma Arriscadas falar on demonstração feita num aberto event - although open to cedi não ao public in general, devem be passando Here uns 10 thousand professionals. I saw people muita mouth aberta through da LaserVue, com face "miracle". More posso did not guarantee anything about a given image quality. Or that sei is that courage was given to Mitsubishi atitude of placing the product to run em aberto space, with all the light of events like this. Nessas conditions absolutely desfavoráveis, LaserVue me pareceu very good. Looking ahead, which gives pra dizer or contrast é melhor do that or LCD (more or less do plasma).

Ha, ha, volto to comment or assunto. Tem muita coisa to see here na Cedia Expo.


That article says it is on Display at CEDIA and crowds are in front of it (note: not in article, but the exhibits were not supposed to open until today, fwiw) and they are stating in select stores come October.

it says it will be available in october.but only in some stores and it will cost $7000 yikessssss

it says it will be available in october.but only in some stores and it will cost $7000 yikessssss

And that's why CNET said less than a month ago it needed to cut its price by over half very quickly to stay competitive.

If it were a $3,000, $4,000 or $5,000 set, that would not be a realistic statement.

http://brogzinho.blogspot.com/2008/09/mitsubishi-enfim-mostra-tv-laser.html

Translation: Portuguese » English

As announced this brogzinho Mitsubishi launched the first TV Laser the world, and finally this week it was shown the CEDIA Expo, an event for retailers specializing in Home Theater.

The LaserVue, a model of 65, "arrives in stores in October when the U.S. suggested price of $ 7,000. The new technology has advantages over the current LCD and plasma because it's cheaper and have contrast and higher level of black.

According Nick Finch, manager of public relations for Mitsubishi to the U.S., the company is betting all the chips in technology, which holds the exclusive patent. And not want to share this asset to any competitor. "You can forget, no chance. Invest in heavy laser, which we believe to be the best technology of reproduction," said Finch. "So it will be an exclusive product of Mitsubishi for many years."

Hmm... 7000. I am afraid Mitsubishi can keep it at that price.

$7000 kills all the desire to purchase it, also it defeats the purpose of energy savings.. $7000 goes a long way to pay electric bills for years on any plasma/LCD..

It's certainly not cheaper than a 65" Sharp LCD. I'm not sure what they're benchmarking against.

7K???? :eek:::confused: LASERVUE-R.I.P. :(

The article doesn't say if it is a 65 or 73" but there is no way a DLP can sell higher than an upscale plasma.

$7,000.....Are you freakin kidding me? it must be the 73"....But really, Mits totaly needs to cut that in half to compete. No one will pay that much for an HDTV

Ouch -- granted, didn't they say though that it would be priced along with current higher-end TVs of comparable size? The Panny TH-65PZ750U is $7k. Maybe that's the logic.

Not that I can afford a $7k TV, but, to make me choose LaserVue over LCD/Plasma of similar sizes ... it would have to completely leave me drooling in PQ, viewing angle, etc. Frankly, power consumption at that price point isn't much of a concern for me.

7K in Q1 might have worked as an MSRP ... but think it will be tough going. But then I haven't seen the set yet.

Hmm... 7000. I am afraid Mitsubishi can keep it at that price.

The LaserView RPTV that Mitsubishi has been promising is almost here. The single model (65" only, for now), which uses lasers as a light source and a DLP chip as an imaging element, is expected to ship at the end of this month (Sept) for $6995.

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2008/090408Mits/

I guess the news is 7000 reasons bad & Mits will probably keep a lot of these units. One can only hope that this initial price/release is just an introductory trial balloon. If they cannot produce enough units then why not get the highest price possible. They WILL sell some of these, but it will not be a unit for the majority until they can produce more and bring the price down.

For me it looks like the 73835 will have to do. And MAYBE that is part of their plan.

Classico

Ouch -- granted, didn't they say though that it would be priced along with current higher-end TVs of comparable size? The Panny TH-65PZ750U is $7k. Maybe that's the logic.The street price for the new 65" 850 Panny is $5150 (I just bought one). I would imagine that this price gets discounted at street price , but wow, that's pricey.

The single model (65" only, for now), which uses lasers as a light source and a DLP chip as an imaging element, is expected to ship at the end of this month (Sept)


WooHoo

for $6995.


WTF?

So your assumption (and I would tend to agree) that when you put a cross-pattern on the screen, its not going to be straight as DLP really cannot get straight lines. I am expecting this to have most of the traits of the DLP, but have been waiting to actually confirm instead of speculate.

I'm not quite following you... I was responding to WaveBoy's post about motion, but your post seems to deal with geometry(?). My point was simply that LaserVue, being a DLP set with a different light source (just like LED DLP sets) is going to handle motion just like all other DLP sets. It's the DLP that determines how motion is portrayed, not the light source. So there's no need to speculate on how the LaserVue will handle motion... just go look at existing DLPs.

But yes, I would expect LaserVue to have the same Geometry challenges that other RPTV DLP sets have. Even more so, since the cabinet is so shallow. Doesn't mean thay can't get it pretty darn good with carefully designed and implemented optics, but it simply can't compete with LCD or Plasma in this area. No RPTV can.

But if it's $7,000, it's all moot anyway. Pretty glad I ended up buying that 73736 a few weeks ago for $5G less. If LaserVue is all that, I can turn around and buy one in a couple years with the money I saved, and probably still come out way ahead. :D

How did ANYONE not think this would be in the $6k - $7k price range? :confused:
EVERY statement has been pointed right at that level.

Now the question remain - are the color right (something Mitsubishi has not gotten right lately) and is the CMS right (another flaw). Combined with the DLP challenges, that determines if this set makes a dent against Pioneer and Panasonic @ $7k.

Now the question is: Can LaserVue save RPTV assuming price will drop from its initial high prices?

How did ANYONE not think this would be in the $6k - $7k price range? :confused:
EVERY statement has been pointed right at that level.

Now the question remain - are the color right (something Mitsubishi has not gotten right lately) and is the CMS right (another flaw). Combined with the DLP challenges, that determines if this set makes a dent against Pioneer and Panasonic @ $7k.

The statements that I've heard early on was that the LaserVue sets were supposed to be priced around the same as LCD and Plasma sets of the same size. This video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQKKFMfNg5o) was posted a while back in this thread.
The 65" Sharp D64U is around $4K and as someone else has said the 65" Panasonic 850 is around $5K so the the $6K-$7K price for a 65" LaserVue is not very competitive.

How did ANYONE not think this would be in the $6k - $7k price range? :confused:
EVERY statement has been pointed right at that level.


I disagree. There might have been a lot of statements that the 73" could be around $7000, but not the 65". That's ridiculous pricing.

I disagree. There might have been a lot of statements that the 73" could be around $7000, but not the 65". That's ridiculous pricing.

Question my friends, has Mits officialy released pricing or avalability of these sets. The only thing that I have seen that I tend to trust is that short little blurb in Home Theatre Magazine ! If the 65 Mits laser is at 7k then they have lost their minds !

You know, all i want is a 1080p HDTV that can give me the same amazing color, solid blacks and motion/response time that my Sony 32" Wega Trinitron CRT SDTV can provide.

Honestly, when you're used to a CRTs PQ, it's pretty damn hard to settle for anything less. And that's the problem I have, dropping over $2000 for a HDTV that cant provide the same great color, motion/response time and blacks that my CRT can provide...Well, i'm not exactly worried about blacks anymore since they've gotten so good now with these displays, but Color and motion are the most important to me

I've been looking forward to seeing this set for a long long time and i'm very disappointed to say that after seeing it today at cedia, it was the biggest let down of the show. i really don't want to kill it for anyone looking forward to this tv but my hopes were very high for it and i honestly couldn't tell a difference between the laser and the current dlp's which i don't care for much either. As a long time (proud) owner of a 62 inch mitsubishi dlp, i was really looking forward to this being my next upgrade but after seeing it today, i have lost pretty much all interest. i'll take another glance tomorrow and hope for the best but look like i'll be goin projector or flat panel

I disagree. There might have been a lot of statements that the 73" could be around $7000, but not the 65". That's ridiculous pricing.

Not from the. When you view any of their official statements FROM THE BEGINNING ON in their entire context, this was meant to take on the top of the line Pioneer Kuro Plasma for supremacy in the self containted HDTV units.

The 60" Pioneer Signature Plasma PRO-141FD, was introduced today with a $7,000 MSRP as well. The Panasonic which is neck and neck with some Pioneer Plasmas in that area now as well.

This was never meant as a mid-line consumer item in 2008 or 2009. Eventually, the technology would trickle down as it always does.

But again, this came in at a price point almost EXACTLY where it was projected - in line with the top of the line Pioneer Kuro Plasma. In fact, as the Pioneer is 60" for $7k, I am a little suprised they did not come out with the 65" at $7500, which would make sense with CNET's statement from a month ago.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer%27s+Elite+KURO+Signature+Series+Monitors+Capture+Ind ustry-Leading+Black+Levels+with+Heightened+Flexibility+Crucial+to+ the+Custom+Installation+Market

Anyone thinking otherwise probably believes in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus as well.

I've been looking forward to seeing this set for a long long time and i'm very disappointed to say that after seeing it today at cedia, it was the biggest let down of the show. i really don't want to kill it for anyone looking forward to this tv but my hopes were very high for it and i honestly couldn't tell a difference between the laser and the current dlp's which i don't care for much either. As a long time (proud) owner of a 62 inch mitsubishi dlp, i was really looking forward to this being my next upgrade but after seeing it today, i have lost pretty much all interest. i'll take another glance tomorrow and hope for the best but look like i'll be goin projector or flat panel

This and the $7,000 price for the 65 inch is a big let down to me and kind of kills my interest in this set.

At this point I am looking more at the WD-73835 until the OLED's come out and their prices fall.

Wow...now I'm REALLY laughing that I thought the price would be below 2 grand:rolleyes:

...:D:D:D

Not from the. When you view any of their official statements FROM THE BEGINNING ON in their entire context, this was meant to take on the top of the line Pioneer Kuro Plasma for supremacy in the self containted HDTV units.

The 60" Pioneer Signature Plasma PRO-141FD, was introduced today with a $7,000 MSRP as well. The Panasonic which is neck and neck with some Pioneer Plasmas in that area now as well.

This was never meant as a mid-line consumer item in 2008 or 2009. Eventually, the technology would trickle down as it always does.

But again, this came in at a price point almost EXACTLY where it was projected - in line with the top of the line Pioneer Kuro Plasma. In fact, as the Pioneer is 60" for $7k, I am a little suprised they did not come out with the 65" at $7500, which would make sense with CNET's statement from a month ago.

http://www.pioneerelectronics.com/PUSA/PressRoom/Press+Releases/Pioneer%27s+Elite+KURO+Signature+Series+Monitors+Capture+Ind ustry-Leading+Black+Levels+with+Heightened+Flexibility+Crucial+to+ the+Custom+Installation+Market

Anyone thinking otherwise probably believes in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus as well.

You could also get a non-signature 60" Kuro at Costco for the low $4K's (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11295722&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|3314|74670&N=4018655&Mo=5&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=74670&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&hierPath=79*2341*3314*74670*&topnav=). I could be wrong but think the differences between a calibrated regular Kuro and a Signature Kuro are not that far off. Hopefully, the $7K price estimate is for the 73" version otherwise I think it will be a hard sell for Mits no matter how incredible the picture is.

Panasonic's new 65" plasma (TH-65PZ850U) can be had for just over 6K. I don't see the motivation at this point to go with the Laservue.

You know, all i want is a 1080p HDTV that can give me the same amazing color, solid blacks and motion/response time that my Sony 32" Wega Trinitron CRT SDTV can provide.

Then buy a Kuro.

So much for Mits having a lot of floor space at Cedia ! If the laser is not coming out just say so Mits...stop pussy-footing around !

As has been said before on this thread, Mitsibushi is not like other companies in the HDTV market. They are a world giant, running nuclear reactors, the Japanese space program and other huge ultra-high tech operations around the world. Compared to them Sony etc are pipsqueaks. If they want to skip a trade show they'll do so and not think twice. Laservue will arrive when they are ready regardless what AVS forum members may say about it.

7K for the 65! :eek: WTF!

If this is confirmed then I'll be joining the 73835 crew for a few years to see how this one plays out....

7K for a DLP, what are they - nuts?

Seggers

How did ANYONE not think this would be in the $6k - $7k price range? :confused:
EVERY statement has been pointed right at that level.

Quite simple: There's no reason why anyone would buy this thing at that price. What logic is there behind pricing a product such that no one will buy it? And every statement *I* have seen has indicated it would be competitive with current flat panel displays. More $$ for something that isn't flat, and likely doesn't have perfect geometry and sharpness isn't competitive. Seems like the only thing they can boast is more colors and less power. More colors is moot when the signals they are fed can't take advantage of it, and less power is likely irrelevent to someone who will throw away $7k just to say their TV uses lasers.

The street price for the new 65" 850 Panny is $5150 (I just bought one). I would imagine that this price gets discounted at street price , but wow, that's pricey.

Where did you find that Panny for 5150 !

I have to say I am finding the continual speculation and complaint about pricing tiresome.
If you don’t like the price buy something else guys.
The prices quoted are no doubt recommended retail and not real world street prices, so I don’t understand the fuss at this early stage. The price will be whatever the market will withstand, and that changes over time.

It’s not long ago that people where happy to pay $13.5k for a 70” Sony Qualia SXRD and much more for big flat panels, suddenly a $7k TV is considered outrageous. :confused:
Some people will just never be happy, whatever the reasonable price is they will want it for less.
Personally I would prefer a TV that was built up to a quality, not down to a price. Low prices mean low profitability which in turn stifles availability of high end product where cost is a significant factor.

Since the LazerVue is DLP based I don’t expect much in the way of black level performance. That will make it a non starter for me no matter what the price.

I have to say I am finding the continual speculation and complaint about pricing tiresome.
If you don’t like the price buy something else guys.
The prices quoted are no doubt recommended retail and not real world street prices, so I don’t understand the fuss at this early stage. The price will be whatever the market will withstand, and that changes over time.

It’s not long ago that people where happy to pay $13.5k for a 70” Sony Qualia SXRD and much more for big flat panels, suddenly a $7k TV is considered outrageous. :confused:
Some people will just never be happy, whatever the reasonable price is they will want it for less.
Personally I would prefer a TV that was built up to a quality, not down to a price. Low prices mean low profitability which in turn stifles availability of high end product where cost is a significant factor.

Since the LazerVue is DLP based I don’t expect much in the way of black level performance. That will make it a non starter for me no matter what the price.

If you don't like opinion why come to a message board, in which the whole purpose is for users to express their opinion? It really doesn't matter what people used to pay, pricing is determined on the current market prices, not the market from last year, 2 months ago, or a decade ago.

Customers have all the right to be pissed off about the over priced product Mitsubishi is introducing to the market and they have every right to express that frustration, if you don't like it, ignore it.

I'm disappointed but not at all shocked by the $7000 price tag. And since it's going to go to Diamond dealers only, it doesn't sound like you can count on discount unless it just flops.

Here's the comment that stands out for me:

<<In face, One would say that the contrast is better than the LCD (but lower than the plasma).>>

Uh, whose contrast ISN'T better than LCD? Yikes.

You want Kuro level pricing, you better have Kuro level performance.

Quite simple: There's no reason why anyone would buy this thing at that price. What logic is there behind pricing a product such that no one will buy it? And every statement *I* have seen has indicated it would be competitive with current flat panel displays. More $$ for something that isn't flat, and likely doesn't have perfect geometry and sharpness isn't competitive. Seems like the only thing they can boast is more colors and less power. More colors is moot when the signals they are fed can't take advantage of it, and less power is likely irrelevent to someone who will throw away $7k just to say their TV uses lasers.

Darin, I agree with you 100%, well stated.

Mits has released new technology before at very high prices. I guess they're looking to recoup some of their R&D costs by selling a few sets at a high profit margin to early adopters. But the list of people with this kind of money, itchy trigger fingers and willing to risk unproven new technology is going to be very short. The 9G Kuro is a much safer play given a similar price and only a slightly smaller screen. Even if the Mits has a better picture, doubtful but possible, the Laservue is to simply to risky at this price. Especially if they only give a modest warranty period.

My source tells me supplies of the Laservue will be tight for some time, which makes sense if they want to keep the price at this level. The smart play is simply to wait. In six months we'll know about the teething problems, if any, supplies of the Laservue will increase if the set is what we're hoping for and the price will go down. Mits can charge whatever they want, all we can do is to send them a message by not buying. I've seen this cycle many times before, as I'm sure many of you have. The early adopters always take in on the chin on price and as Beta quality control.

Now that I've said all that, if the Laservue has a better picture than the Pioneer Elite 151 and they gave us a five year warranty, even I'd be tempted to take the plunge. But if frogs had wings they would fly!

Where did you find that Panny for 5150 !

Cleveland Plasma, just google it. Very very highly rated store, and the owner posts on these forums.

However, you have to keep in mind two points:

1) This price does not include a stand or wall mounting hardware. If you want the stand, it will probably cost around $400 - $700. Panasonic has not released the stands yet. This exact same thing happened last year and the stands came out about 30 days after the sets. So we'll see if that happens again this year.

2) This price also does not include shipping, which is $300 from Cleveland Plasma.

So assuming the stand costs $700, you'd have $5150 + $300 shipping + $700 stand = $6150. Still a lot lower than $7000. :)

If you don't like opinion why come to a message board, in which the whole purpose is for users to express their opinion? It really doesn't matter what people used to pay, pricing is determined on the current market prices, not the market from last year, 2 months ago, or a decade ago.

Customers have all the right to be pissed off about the over priced product Mitsubishi is introducing to the market and they have every right to express that frustration, if you don't like it, ignore it.


If the market does not like the price they won’t pay, Mitsubishi will either lower the price to meet the market or pull the product; speculating and winging will not achieve anything. The product has not even been released yet and no street prices have been established so why worry about prices that are not yet known and will be subject to continual change after release?

The more people want to push the price down the less likely Mitsubishi will continue with the product.

Personally I don’t consider $7k a lot if the product is good enough, I payed $6.5k for a 70” Sony and though it was an incredible bargain, I was prepared to pay double that at the time and would still today for the right product.

I just noticed that the laservue picture from CEDIA at hometheatermag.com is troubling. The "black" on the screen is clearly distinguishable from the black bezel. While far from reliable, just based on this picture 9G Kuro black levels aren't there.

...
The prices quoted are no doubt recommended retail and not real world street prices...

True, but since they will only be available in select stores I seriously doubt street prices would be much lower (for a while at least). I'm sure Mitsubishi is trying to pay for some R&D costs here.

It’s not long ago that people where happy to pay $13.5k for a 70” Sony Qualia SXRD and much more for big flat panels, suddenly a $7k TV is considered outrageous. :confused:

True, however microdisplays were pretty much all your choices in large screens when the Qualia was released. People's purchasing decisions are different in todays market than they were several years ago. Microdisplays are vanishing fast in favor or flat panels. A 65" TV isn't that much larger than a 60" TV. And likely it's going to cost someone at least $1k more (street price) for a 65" Laservue RPTV over a 60" Pioneer Elite plasma and $2k-$3k more than a non-elite Kuro. For that much higher these things better have some serious PQ enhancements over the competition. Not to mention that next year it has been said that 5 lumen technology will be available in plasma may (meaning plasmas may have LCD type brightness with improved power consumption) with lower cost as well as possibly bigger panels it's hard at this time to see a long term future for Laservue.

I just noticed that the laservue picture from CEDIA at hometheatermag.com is troubling. The "black" on the screen is clearly distinguishable from the black bezel. While far from reliable, just based on this picture 9G Kuro black levels aren't there.

It appears that they have a typical matte non-glare microdisplay screen with no tinting. These type screens do not do well in lighting environments when it comes to pure black levels. Kuro's need some need a deeper tinted screen as well. Samsung's LCD prevail in environments with ambient light since they tinted their screens jet black. Other manufacturer's should follow in their footsteps IMO.

Darin, I agree with you 100%, well stated.

Mits has released new technology before at very high prices. I guess they're looking to recoup some of their R&D costs by selling a few sets at a high profit margin to early adopters.
In 2000 Mits released their 1st DLP. It cost more than $10K retail. (WD65000)
In about 2003 they released their 1st 82inch LCOS. Retail cost was $20K. (WL82913)
In 2003 they had a 60inch plasma that cost $16K. (PD6010)
In 2008 they released their 1st Laser TV and cost is $7K. (L65A90)
In 2008 they released their 7th generation DLP and a 65" costs about $1500. (WD65735)

They always charge higher costs for 1st year products. Nothing surprising about that.

In the coming years the Laser TV models will be priced lower and lower. Quality will improve with each generation. Its the industry cycle.

I just noticed that the laservue picture from CEDIA at hometheatermag.com is troubling. The "black" on the screen is clearly distinguishable from the black bezel. While far from reliable, just based on this picture 9G Kuro black levels aren't there.

I'm sure that's just the pic. Could be the flash reflecting off the screen or lighting in the room that the cam is picking up. Could be anything.

Originally posted by hotbeef:
I've been looking forward to seeing this set for a long long time and i'm very disappointed to say that after seeing it today at cedia, it was the biggest let down of the show. i really don't want to kill it for anyone looking forward to this tv but my hopes were very high for it and i honestly couldn't tell a difference between the laser and the current dlp's which i don't care for much either. As a long time (proud) owner of a 62 inch mitsubishi dlp, i was really looking forward to this being my next upgrade but after seeing it today, i have lost pretty much all interest. i'll take another glance tomorrow and hope for the best but look like i'll be goin projector or flat panel

Can you take pictures?

Can you take pictures?

I would like to see pictures too. And not some marketing pictures, but real pictures from a real persons camera, just to see what I would see if I was there.

...Laservue will be tight for some time, which makes sense if they want to keep the price at this level....

It also makes sense when trying out a new technology. If there are problems it's best to piss off as few people as possible. Done all the time, like electric and fuel cell cars being introduced now.

The early adopters always take in on the chin on price and as Beta quality control.

But here's the difference in my eyes... typically, early adopters are paying the premium and taking the chance in exchange for a product they want because they can't get something comparable otherwise. In this case, I'm just not so sure. I'm just not convinced this is going to offer any significant advantages over a comparable plasma, and I expect it will have some disadvantages. The 73" is a different story, there's not as much competition in that size range. But who knows where that's going to be priced. :eek:

Since the 73" is coming out next year, it will prob be priced based on how well the 65" sells and if they have the manufacturing in place to produce enough of them. If they're limited quantity like the 65" is going to be, then it will be a premium price to be sure.

Just because one 3rd party website said this is the price, it this what Mits is saying? I can't imagine the 65" laservue costing more than twice of a 73" WD-73835. If this $7k figure can't be verified at this time. I am sticking to my $4200 for the 65 and $5500 for the 73 guess. If the $7k is fact, I will be ordering my 73" 835 next week. The money saved will but a lot of bulbs.

Anyone get a good idea of the vertical viewing angle of the LaserVue?

It’s not long ago that people where happy to pay $13.5k for a 70” Sony Qualia SXRD and much more for big flat panels, suddenly a $7k TV is considered outrageous. :confused:


Because the top of the line plasmas are a bargain comparitively.
$7K might have been good five years ago, but not now....unless your display trumps all others in all categories.

They will need to street price it under $5k to have any real sales numbers in my opinion....as this wont be as good as the Kuro Elites and a 60" 151 can be bought for less.

You could also get a non-signature 60" Kuro at Costco for the low $4K's (http://www.costco.com/Browse/Product.aspx?Prodid=11295722&whse=BC&Ne=4000000&eCat=BC|79|2341|3314|74670&N=4018655&Mo=5&No=0&Nr=P_CatalogName:BC&cat=74670&Ns=P_Price|1||P_SignDesc1&lang=en-US&Sp=C&hierPath=79*2341*3314*74670*&topnav=). I could be wrong but think the differences between a calibrated regular Kuro and a Signature Kuro are not that far off. Hopefully, the $7K price estimate is for the 73" version otherwise I think it will be a hard sell for Mits no matter how incredible the picture is.


Mitsubishi is not aiming at the Costco crowd. They aimed this to compete with the TOP OF THE LINE -not the Walmart units.

Pioneer's 60" Plasma is $7k and the 65" is $7k.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

If you don't like opinion why come to a message board, in which the whole purpose is for users to express their opinion? It really doesn't matter what people used to pay, pricing is determined on the current market prices, not the market from last year, 2 months ago, or a decade ago.

Customers have all the right to be pissed off about the over priced product Mitsubishi is introducing to the market and they have every right to express that frustration, if you don't like it, ignore it.

That's right! To Hell with High Prices!!!!

Just go buy an 11" OLED for $2500 and show them!

The more people want to push the price down the less likely Mitsubishi will continue with the product.

Do you really think that someone from Mits with any sort of clout actually reads this stuff? And they do, that they even care?

Personally I don’t consider $7k a lot if the product is good enough, I payed $6.5k for a 70” Sony and though it was an incredible bargain, I was prepared to pay double that at the time and would still today for the right product.
Maybe 5 years ago this would have stood. Today not many people will stomach 7K for a 65 TV, when they can go get a flat for less money.

And let's not talk about the economy now to then.

To your point though, when I picked up the 60, I looked at the 70 that was also on display at CC. If not for the 7k tag, I would have walked out with that instead.

Seggers

That's right! To Hell with High Prices!!!!

Just go buy an 11" OLED for $2500 and show them!

Wow, we're not trolling with those kinds of comments, are we?

Actually, you're right on both points.

Not everybody wants to, or can, drop 7k on a TV. The industry has shot itself in the foot by pushing lower end tvs for lower end money. People - us included - do not want to pay that much for a tv. Regardless on how high Mits thinks it is.

And yes, if you've been reading, people are spending their money elsewhere.

Seggers

As has been said before on this thread, Mitsibushi is not like other companies in the HDTV market. They are a world giant, running nuclear reactors, the Japanese space program and other huge ultra-high tech operations around the world. Compared to them Sony etc are pipsqueaks. If they want to skip a trade show they'll do so and not think twice. Laservue will arrive when they are ready regardless what AVS forum members may say about it.

But in the world of TVs, Sony outsells Mitsubishi 100:1 easily. Mitsubishi are chump change in this domain. If they want to sell bulky rear projection units, they need to price accordingly. Sony, Panasonic, etc have a long history of quality electronics. Most people associate Mitsubishi with cars. It's far easier to push a 70" SXRD over a 70" Laservue to the consumer, persay.

Wow, we're not trolling with those kinds of comments, are we?

I believe all the others bashing the unit for coming out in the exact market it was designed for are the trolls.

Not everybody wants to, or can, drop 7k on a TV.

Nor was this TV EVER been designed for Everyone - just as the Pioneer Signature Line was not designed for everyone.

Again, CNET had it right a month ago and people did not want to listen or believe.

I expect Mitsubishi will bring this out to save face and it will then fade away.

Nor was this TV EVER been designed for Everyone - just as the Pioneer Signature Line was not designed for everyone.

That's probably why Pioneer is having issues with its plasma business.

Originally Posted by pgibbons
You could also get a non-signature 60" Kuro at Costco for the low $4K's.Mitsubishi is not aiming at the Costco crowd. They aimed this to compete with the TOP OF THE LINE -not the Walmart units.

Pioneer's 60" Plasma is $7k and the 65" is $7k.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Because it's extremely unlikely that this will perform on par with even the "Costco" Kuro, IMHO. Great flat panels in this size range can be had for $5k. Pioneer said they were going to be competitive with flat panels. If the $7k price is to be believed (which is yet to be seen), then they aren't.

I believe all the others bashing the unit for coming out in the exact market it was designed for are the trolls.

If Mitsubishi will confirm that LaserVue is specifically targeted for the "Pay more for less" market, then I will shut up. :D

Because the top of the line plasmas are a bargain comparitively.
$7K might have been good five years ago, but not now....unless your display trumps all others in all categories.

They will need to street price it under $5k to have any real sales numbers in my opinion....as this wont be as good as the Kuro Elites and a 60" 151 can be bought for less.

I don't think that Mits is after "real sales numbers" with this product "intro". As stated in my previous post, PRODUCTION capability is going to be the initial issue. If you can only build so many, then there will be a FEW early adopters who are willing to PAY for the "latest" technology which will be available in "limited" quantities.

Amazingly, there will be those who will pay FULL list price to be the FIRST to boast of owning a LASER TV. As Mits gets their production yield up and solves what will certainly be unforseen technical issues,(testing in a lab NEVER reproduces ALL the circumstances encountered when it gets into the consumer's home) then as has been noted before, prices will begin to drop AND, I believe quality will improve. Mits, as has been observed in previous posts, is expert in walking this "high-end" tight rope, and has not yet fallen.

They may NOT WANT TO SELL THAT MANY UNITS at first, until they figure out what REAL WORLD issues will be encountered and how to solve them.

Classico

I believe all the others bashing the unit for coming out in the exact market it was designed for are the trolls.



Nor was this TV EVER been designed for Everyone - just as the Pioneer Signature Line was not designed for everyone.

Again, CNET had it right a month ago and people did not want to listen or believe.

I expect Mitsubishi will bring this out to save face and it will then fade away.

But in order to fully recoup costs, they will need to be able to sell to this Everyone people. At 7K (6K, 8K, what's the difference. It's still too much money) this tv will not sell to Everyone. Heck, it'll be difficult to sell to the select Few at that kind of price.

So explain to me why Mits would put the unit out, only to let it fad away. Wouldn't it be more business savy to just not ship it, like Sony and their RP business?

Different people have different expectations. Mine, and many on here like me, is not to drop 7K for a 65 DLP TV, espeically when I can have the 73835 for a scratch under 3K.

BTW, I can drop 7K for a TV if I choose to. And that's the beauty, I choose not to. Which is why me, and many like me here, are shocked that the (so far unconfirmed) price is being touted (by 3rd party websites) at that amount of money.

There will always be those who will, and can, splash that kind of cash on a TV. But they are few and far between and they will not help too much.

Seggers

espeically when I can have the 73835 for a scratch under 3K.


In Best Buy today, the 73833 was marked down to $1800. I don't know if the 73835 is worth $1200 more, but the 65" LaserVue certainly won't be worth over $5000 more (which means the 73" will probably be $7000 more)

In Best Buy today, the 73833 was marked down to $1800. I don't know if the 73835 is worth $1200 more...

Based on the posts I've seen in the Mits thread from people who have compared the previous gen (833) to current gen units, there is a MUCH bigger difference between the previous gen to the current gen than there is between the various flavors of the current gen. A 73735 or 73736 should easily trump a 73833, and be more comparable $$ to the marked down last years diamond version. It seems most people end up turning off (or trying to turn off) the extra features the diamond version has anyway.

I just noticed that the laservue picture from CEDIA at hometheatermag.com is troubling. The "black" on the screen is clearly distinguishable from the black bezel. While far from reliable, just based on this picture 9G Kuro black levels aren't there.

What picture would that be?

Based on the posts I've seen in the Mits thread from people who have compared the previous gen (833) to current gen units, there is a MUCH bigger difference between the previous gen to the current gen than there is between the various flavors of the current gen. A 73735 or 73736 should easily trump a 73833, and be more comparable $$ to the marked down last years diamond version. It seems most people end up turning off (or trying to turn off) the extra features the diamond version has anyway.



When walking into a new store that has RPTV mits current products. I can usually tell at a glance at the PQ if it is a 733, 735, 833, or 835. Without even noticing the frame. I have been in at least 5 stores. IMHO the 835 offers much better PQ than any of the others. Not all stores had all models, and some may cite they weren't calibrated right, lighting , etc. But I could see a trend that the 835's looked better. And PQ is my primary selling point.

Just my 2 cents, go see for yourself.

Mitsubishi is not aiming at the Costco crowd. They aimed this to compete with the TOP OF THE LINE -not the Walmart units.

Pioneer's 60" Plasma is $7k and the 65" is $7k.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

That's great if laservue exceeds Kuro elite or signature performance. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though. The 60" non-elite kuro is way less than 7.

What I don't understand is why you think all the smartass comments are necessary. People were hoping this TV would be priced more reasonably. It is not and they are disappointed. I myself don't see how changing the light source adds 5 grand to the price.

Based on the posts I've seen in the Mits thread from people who have compared the previous gen (833) to current gen units, there is a MUCH bigger difference between the previous gen to the current gen than there is between the various flavors of the current gen.
When walking into a new store that has RPTV mits current products. I can usually tell at a glance at the PQ if it is a 733, 735, 833, or 835. Without even noticing the frame.

Thanks gents. I stopped following the Mits DLP's about a year ago and didn't realize they had made that many improvements this year. I just remember that most were very pleased with the 833 last year.

I stopped following the Mits DLP's about a year ago and didn't realize they had made that many improvements this year.
If I'm not mistaken, the primary improvement in this years model is the next gen DLP (DarkChip4), which provides greater native contrast. There's a huge thread on this year's Mits DLPs, with tons of input. Ripnickus's experience is apparently different, but the general consensous seems to be that the 08s are a noticeable improvement, presumably due to the DC4 (which obviously should carry over to the LaserVue). IIRC, the primary differences in the '08 Diamond version and the next model down (xx736) is a dynamic iris (which many seem to want to turn off, but can't), and a few image processing options. But since the iris can't be turned off, it's hard to judge it's affect on PQ. I would expect it would depend on the content. I can't imagine it not being a good thing for dark scenes. Though some have indicated it may screw up gamma calibration, and can lead to awkward brightness changes.

In 2000 Mits released their 1st DLP. It cost more than $10K retail. (WD65000)
In about 2003 they released their 1st 82inch LCOS. Retail cost was $20K. (WL82913)
In 2003 they had a 60inch plasma that cost $16K. (PD6010)
In 2008 they released their 1st Laser TV and cost is $7K. (L65A90)
In 2008 they released their 7th generation DLP and a 65" costs about $1500. (WD65735)

They always charge higher costs for 1st year products. Nothing surprising about that.

In the coming years the Laser TV models will be priced lower and lower. Quality will improve with each generation. Its the industry cycle.

Interesting find.

I know it's not the Mits brand, but comparing Laser to LED, Samsung announced their 1st gen LED sets many months before shipment at just a $1000 premium over UHP models. MSRP on their 56" model dropped $200 to just $2999 before shipment.

56" in 2006 is like 65" in 2008 in terms of affordability, so I'd say Mits should be introducing the 65" set for no more than $3499.

Originally Posted By: okbyme in the 2005 Samsung thread, source Samsung site.
The 50" HL-S5087W, ($2,899 MSRP), 56" HL-S5687W ($3,199 MSRP) and 61" HL-S6187W ($3,599 MSRP) will be available in April 2006.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=626669

I'm a HUGE fan of LED/Laser Light Engine and don't care if the cabinet is 10-14" deep, I just don't think RPTV can survive at this price. Guess I'll be waiting to upgrade my HL-T6187S with a 2nd gen Laser or 4th/5th gen LED set. I just hope Samsung put 5:5 pulldown in their next model!!

That's great if laservue exceeds Kuro elite or signature performance. I wouldn't hold my breath on that though. The 60" non-elite kuro is way less than 7.

What I don't understand is why you think all the smartass comments are necessary. People were hoping this TV would be priced more reasonably. It is not and they are disappointed. I myself don't see how changing the light source adds 5 grand to the price.

Why do you think it's necessary for you to see the necessity for price changes?
You know, I was just thinking, there are quite a few of us here. Why don't we purchase this company and run it ourselves?:) We seem to know best what products should be developed, the timing and methodology of product introduction and what the price should be. These are the sorts of things that Executives are paid millions to decide.
Seriously, I notice a general theme where folks insist on absolutely perfect performance, developed very quickly and sold for the absolutely lowest price. Some even insist that older units be exchangeable for new technology.
No one seems to correlate each of these factors with development costs at all. Know that every single feature we insist upon, adds substantially to production costs. There is no performance level that can't be designed, provided money is no object(refer to Military electronics on this). Let's take Image geometry on the screen, for example, in RPTVs. Well we all know that this results from imperfections in lens design(low cost). Lenses can be designed to any desired performance level, but at much greater cost. So when we say we want a perfect image, we need to be willing to pay the increased cost. As an example of this, Some DSLR lenses cost more than the $7k that seems so shocking to some.
Take Black levels as another example, well you know, folks can work on this but anything they do additionally, adds more costs and on and on.
To sum up, we need to add a bit of cost/benefit congruence to our demands-- or, perhaps move to a really communist society.

we need to add a bit of cost/benefit congruence to our demands-

I have (and I think most here have). The anticipated cost of these Laser units does not equal the benefit.

Yes, they have executives that make a lot of money to make decisions. You think they don't make mistakes? Look how many cars are launched every year that lose the manufacturers money. Did the highly paid executives think the model would be a failure? No, they screwed up.

IMO, Mits is screwing up. $7000 might be the cost they have to sell at to make a profit. If that's the case, they shouldn't have brought it to market. Their target audience is small enough as it is (people that want 65" - 73" displays and don't mind that they're not 2" thick), without further reducing that audience by outpricing many of them (based on your cost/benefit analysis)

I have (and I think most here have). The anticipated cost of these Laser units does not equal the benefit.

Yes, they have executives that make a lot of money to make decisions. You think they don't make mistakes? Look how many cars are launched every year that lose the manufacturers money. Did the highly paid executives think the model would be a failure? No, they screwed up.

IMO, Mits is screwing up. $7000 might be the cost they have to sell at to make a profit. If that's the case, they shouldn't have brought it to market. Their target audience is small enough as it is (people that want 65" - 73" displays and don't mind that they're not 2" thick), without further reducing that audience by outpricing many of them (based on your cost/benefit analysis)

I agree

Hey, IMO, let them price it that high. Let the must haves buy em and work out the bugs. Let Mitsubishi get production up to the #s where they can drop the price. This is similar to when a car maker comes out with a limited edition run of a car. They only produce so many to keep the sales low, but the sticker price high. Then eventually, the price on the car plummets and everyone can have one.

Either way, we'll either have to wait it out or spend the $$.

Either way, we'll either have to wait it out or spend the $$.

Or buy something else. ;)

Why do you think it's necessary for you to see the necessity for price changes?

I don't, its just my goddamn opinion. I will say it again, I don't see how changing the lightsoure adds that much to the cost. I never said it was necessary for Mits or anyone else to see it my way.

Wow, we're not trolling with those kinds of comments, are we?

Actually, you're right on both points.

Not everybody wants to, or can, drop 7k on a TV. The industry has shot itself in the foot by pushing lower end tvs for lower end money. People - us included - do not want to pay that much for a tv. Regardless on how high Mits thinks it is.

And yes, if you've been reading, people are spending their money elsewhere.

Seggers

What is anything has Mits said officialy about the Lasers at eh Dever Cedia show of 2008 ! Nothing else matters except what they do say or dont say !

Wow, after reading and/or skimming through this entire thread...

First of all, I just upgraded to this year's Samsung top of the line HL61A750 LED DLP from last year's HLT6189S LED DLP. I've basically upgraded/changed TVs every year or every other year for the past decade. The last CRT I had was a top of the line Sony 36" Wega XBR from 2003. So basically I've dumped CRTs about 5 years ago and have never looked back. Since then I've owned a Panasonic Plasma, Sony LCD RPTV and 3 straight Samsung DLPs (all in that order). One thing is true that I find here is that what people consider a good picture vary vastly here. My opinion is that large screen RPTVs are a good compromise between picture quality and price. Like many here, I would love to own a Pioneer Kuro Plasma, but at 60" is to hefty of a price for me. While I can still remember appreciation for the good qualities of CRT technology, I can say that I don't miss the extreme size and weight of they had and not to mention their limitation in size with regards to direct view CRTs. I wasn't a fan of LCD technology until recent years and I will give credit to the technology development as I personally do feel that LCDs have come a long way, but obviously still have some ways to go. To my standards though, LCD technology is very acceptable these days...but again, I like big screens around 60" and flat panels in that size range are still a bit pricey to me.

So now while my interests in this hobby have got me looking into Mitsubishi's new Laser DLPs, I can say that I am very happy with my new purchase. I think Samsung has done an excellent job with this year's LED DLP line. Just running it for the past day, I can see a big improvement over last year's model. It's a good thing that technology gets better. Cnet gave excellent reviews and so that's why I stuck with Samsung. I do see promise with Mitsubishi here and I rooting for them to succeed. The future of RPTV existence may be on shaky ground at the moment, but I still see a market for them as long as screen size and price are factors to consumers. Sure everyone is in love with flat panels these days, but I personally think there's still life left in the RPTV form factor.

Mitsubishi is not aiming at the Costco crowd. They aimed this to compete with the TOP OF THE LINE -not the Walmart units.

Pioneer's 60" Plasma is $7k and the 65" is $7k.

Why is this so hard to comprehend?

Why is it so hard for you to comprehend. The Costco Pioneer is the same non-signature Kuro as the ones sold in other stores like Best Buy/Magnolia, with the same black levels. So I am saying that even if the non-signature Kuro will have better or equal performance than the Mits, $7K is bad pricing. Do you know the measured difference between a regular Kuro's black levels and the signature model?
The 65" Panansonic can be had for in the low $5K as stated earlier.

I am guessing you are thinking people will not shop around and just go to a Mits Diamond dealer and see a $7K Pio, Panasonic, and Mits to compare. In that case, you may be right. But, I am guessing that more people will then price the sets at different places and then notice that the other sets of similiar size and performance can be had for significantly less while the Mitsubishi will be limited to their Diamond dealerships and I think this will kill them.

Don't get me wrong, I am hoping that the LaserVue will be a great product (I have a 65" Sharp and a 58" Panny, but I keep looking at the 73" Mits and 72" Samsung :), but my worry is that they will price themselves so high and the sales will be so bad that there will never be a 73" set :(

As someone who LCD, Plasma, and DLP in my home I have been watching and waiting for something to get encouraged about with regard to the Mits Laser.. I have to add my voice to the chorus of people who think Mits has lost there mind if they think even the 73" set will sell more than a handful of units at $7k pricing. Today you can find HL72A650 shipped for $2100.

My current DLP is 65" and though it is fall 2005 television it looks better than anything I see in the stores from Mits at 65" let alone at 73". Honestly for $7000 it will have to be 70" or lareger plasma of Kuro Elite caliber or better.

$7k is insanity.

What is anything has Mits said officialy about the Lasers at eh Dever Cedia show of 2008 ! Nothing else matters except what they do say or dont say !

Not sure I fully understood this.

But for right now, there has been no offical word of anything to do with LaserVue, except for what is on the Mits website and the stuff gleaned here.

The message you quoted was a sideline discussion between those who think that a 7k LV is acceptable, and those who don't.

3 guesses as to where I stand.... :p

Seggers

Mitsubishi announces prices for its laser-based HDTV

Back in Spring, John Sciacca discussed Mitsubishi's new LaserVue HDTVs. Mitsubishi officially showed off its new screens a few months ago, but while it was happy to show off the TV's technical attributes, it was reticent to offer any specific pricing information. Finally, at CEDIA 2008, Mitsubishi has finally revealed the number to match the funky screen.

In case you've forgotten, the LaserVue is a laser-based HDTV. Instead of using LCDs or plasma, it uses an array of red, green, and blue lasers to project its image onto the screen. According to Mitsubishi, it delivers a color gamut over 200% NTSC standard, and consumes less than 200 watts (significantly less than LCD and plasma screens). The company even claims that it can run indefinitely, without the light source "burning out" or otherwise dimming (a problem faced by all LCD and plasma screens and projectors). Impressive claims, but I'll have to see some test results myself before I can believe it.

The 65" Mitsubishi LaserVue will retail for $6,999, putting it on equal ground with most 60-inch-or-larger flat panels, and significantly cheaper than upcoming high-end models like the $10,000 65" Pioneer Kuro. If Mitsubishi's claims about color hold up, we could be looking at a real contender in the big-screen market. The 65" LaserVie starts shipping at the end of September to Mitsubishi's Select Diamond retailers, and will see a wider release around the end of October. Mitsubishi has plans for a 73" LaserVue, but it hasn't announced pricing or a release date yet.

Oh yeah, I forgot to mention that I also think 7k is WAY too much. Mits really should be trying to keep the RPTV market going by keeping them big (screensize-wise) and cheap...even if it is with new expensively R&D'ed technology. With the economy the way it is, just doesn't make sense to me either why they would try to sell them at such a high price regardless of the new technology involved. I was thinking I was going to be stuck with my Sammy HLT6189S until I noticed how they totally slashed the price on this year's HL61A750 and therefore allowed me to affordably upgrade.

Just got an email from mits about laservue regarding the webpage url change, but nothing was in the damn thing LOL either that or it won't load properly, Regardless I checked the site and its been updated visually but not content-wise, save for a page stating some product information. Interesting...

Mitsubishi announces prices for its laser-based HDTV

Back in Spring, John Sciacca discussed Mitsubishi's new LaserVue HDTVs. Mitsubishi officially showed off its new screens a few months ago, but while it was happy to show off the TV's technical attributes, it was reticent to offer any specific pricing information. Finally, at CEDIA 2008, Mitsubishi has finally revealed the number to match the funky screen.

In case you've forgotten, the LaserVue is a laser-based HDTV. Instead of using LCDs or plasma, it uses an array of red, green, and blue lasers to project its image onto the screen. According to Mitsubishi, it delivers a color gamut over 200% NTSC standard, and consumes less than 200 watts (significantly less than LCD and plasma screens). The company even claims that it can run indefinitely, without the light source "burning out" or otherwise dimming (a problem faced by all LCD and plasma screens and projectors). Impressive claims, but I'll have to see some test results myself before I can believe it.

The 65" Mitsubishi LaserVue will retail for $6,999, putting it on equal ground with most 60-inch-or-larger flat panels, and significantly cheaper than upcoming high-end models like the $10,000 65" Pioneer Kuro. If Mitsubishi's claims about color hold up, we could be looking at a real contender in the big-screen market. The 65" LaserVie starts shipping at the end of September to Mitsubishi's Select Diamond retailers, and will see a wider release around the end of October. Mitsubishi has plans for a 73" LaserVue, but it hasn't announced pricing or a release date yet.

And where, pray tell, did you get that lot from?

Seggers

Edit: Never mind. I went back to a link that was posted here a couple of pages ago.

Read it and weep....

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2008/090408Mits/

Im waiting for the 73 incher , i wont settle for anything smaller than the jvc 70inch dila in my sitting room. The mitsubishi will definitely have to exceed all other TVs on the market for me to spend 7-8000.00 on it. I mean , i have to really see a difference not isf calibrated. Like the difference from SD to HD. If not ill hold back with my jvc dila 1080p.


Maybe it will be until more affordable 4000K TVs come out that i truely see my jvc is worth upgrading.

I also just received my email from Mits. They must have been reading my comments here, as it was blank! :D

Seggers

BelievingIsSeeing.tv is now LaserVueTV.com‏
From: Mistubishi LaserVue (no-reply@laservuetv.com)
Sent: Fri 9/05/08 11:32 PM
To: for my eyes only

i also just received my email from mits. They must have been reading my comments here, as it was blank! :d

seggers

believingisseeing.tv is now laservuetv.com‏
from: Mistubishi laservue (no-reply@laservuetv.com)
sent: Fri 9/05/08 11:32 pm
to: For my eyes only

+1 ;)

What I posted is the latest information available from the Web which I found on the Sound and Vision Magazine website. It is more informative then what was posted "two pages" ago, and once again confirms the price (you get what you pay for) and the release date.

At $7,000 for 65", that means the 73" will probably cost $8,000 or more. I can't see being able to justify that, when I can probably get a 65" RPTV for half those prices at Xmas sales. Maybe our next TV after our next one....

At $7,000 for 65", that means the 73" will probably cost $8,000 or more. I can't see being able to justify that, when I can probably get a 65" RPTV for half those prices at Xmas sales. Maybe our next TV after our next one....


If it really does look ALOT better , with all source material thrown at it than i beleive its worth it. Almost like when people see 120 hz motion flow on the newer sets. When my friend and i saw the new samsung 650 series and up , we said to our selfs 120hz is well worth it.


------Im hoping that the new mitsu gives such a beleivable depth of image that it will look like you can put your hand into the set. -------
Thats the convincing i need on all types of source material thrown at it.

TV reliability is a big deal epecially when you are aksing prices at this level. Rear projection has not been terribly reliable and DLP in general has been close to pathetic.. First year rear technology makes rear projection sets down right scary at $7K and up.

You would have to have a very high risk tolerance to lay your money down for the Mits when the plasmas are anvil solid. Mits needs to deliver these sets with multiyear factory warranties.

As stated earlier--They may NOT WANT TO SELL THAT MANY UNITS at first, until they figure out what REAL WORLD issues will be encountered and how to solve them.

Don't expect Mits to ADMIT that there are ANY issues. This is an engineering/production design/marketing strategy. Sell a FEW now at a really high price until we can fix what needs to be fixed and then ramp up production. There ARE folks out there willing and anxious to be guinea pigs. I don't think ANY of us have a clue as to just how complex this new technology is to implement successfully. Add to that such mundane issues as the "shipping" carton.

Early adopters are willing to PAY for the privilege of being FIRST and Mitsubishi is more than willing to take their money and find out just what is right and wrong with the LaserVue BEFORE bringing it to the mass market. Does anyone think that they have figured out yet HOW to mass produce these things on a regular production line? There will probably be 4-6 times the number of man hours needed to assemble the FIRST units compared to regular production units. Hence the initial sky-high premium price. Early adopters get to pay a premium for that.

We are privileged to witness the introduction of a NEW technology. THERE ARE GOING TO BE PROBLEMS. I want it now too--but technology just doesn't work that way. Imagine if they shipped out hundreds of these, only to find a major (or even minor) flaw that needed to be addressed. That cost would be enormous in BOTH DOLLARS and customer relations. What Mits is doing is prudent--however much we dislike it. I want it NOW--but will have to wait OR get something else. My guess is that mass market production is 6-9 months away--along with a lower price. IMHO

Classico

At $7,000 for 65", that means the 73" will probably cost $8,000 or more. I can't see being able to justify that, when I can probably get a 65" RPTV for half those prices at Xmas sales. Maybe our next TV after our next one....

Darn...all this waiting, and they go ahead and do that to us...$7k for a RPTV??!! It better get my kids up and drive them to school too for that price.

Well, the Sammy LED DLPs are looking a lot more realistic at this point.

...$7K for an RPTV....jeesh!

P.S. And it better have a 15 year full warranty for that price. Besides what does Mits have to lose? They say the lasers will last forever...right?...what could go wrong?

Mitsubishi announces prices for its laser-based HDTV

The 65" Mitsubishi LaserVue will retail for $6,999, putting it on equal ground with most 60-inch-or-larger flat panels, and significantly cheaper than upcoming high-end models like the $10,000 65" Pioneer Kuro. If Mitsubishi's claims about color hold up, we could be looking at a real contender in the big-screen market. The 65" LaserVie starts shipping at the end of September to Mitsubishi's Select Diamond retailers, and will see a wider release around the end of October. Mitsubishi has plans for a 73" LaserVue, but it hasn't announced pricing or a release date yet.
First off, I do feel that $7k is too much unless the picture is at (or very close to) Kuro levels, including black level. But a lot of the complaints about the pricing are comparing (discounted) street prices to the LaserVue MSRP and therefore aren't even remotely fair comparisons. Even if only available at limited Diamond dealers for now, discounts will happen, even if they're not as good as can be had on other TV's. Let's please compare street prices to street prices (even if one of the prices is speculating at what the discount will be compared to the other price being known for sure) and MSRP's to MSRP's.

I've seen comments that a 60" TV isn't that much smaller than 65". It's only 5 inches diagonally, but the 65" TV has 20 or so percent more picture area.

Now, what are the LIST prices of the various 65" flat panel options? Obviously, there's no such thing as a 65" Kuro yet (and it sounds like it's expected MSRP will be around $10k), so what are the list prices of the other 65" options (including other DLP's and flat panels)? I don't know all of the prices, but from what I've seen, $7k is certainly at the higher end but definitely in line with the comments that we've read that the LaserVue will be priced to compete with the better flat panels.

What I'm getting at is that $7k is a perfectly reasonable MSRP if it's list price is competitive with other 65" options of comparable picture and build quality.

I currently have a Mits WS65909 RPTV that's around 7 years old. I'd really like to upgrade to something newer, but am frustrated by the options. I'm not willing to go with something smaller, so the Pioneer Kuro's aren't an option despite the picture quality. The current DLP options have enough geometry problems that I'm leery of going with that option (and who knows if the LaserVue's will improve the situation - shallow cabinets certainly aren't promising there). There are some plasma options at 65" from Panasonic and this may be the direction I end up going in. From what I've seen, I won't get an LCD set any time soon. I'm sort of hoping that LaserVue turns out to be as good as the hype and the street prices work out to be somewhat reasonable. Time will tell and for now I do have a TV that works well enough, so I'm going to sit tight a bit longer.

If it really does look ALOT better , with all source material thrown at it than i beleive its worth it. Almost like when people see 120 hz motion flow on the newer sets. When my friend and i saw the new samsung 650 series and up , we said to our selfs 120hz is well worth it.


Except most people that care about PQ, turn the 120hz function off.

the entire 120hz thing is just gimmicky, i mean sure it's probably fantastic for watching something like Planet Earth on Blu ray, but it makes movies look cheap and does nothing for videogames.

Just saw the 65" LaserVue @ Cedia yesterday. I won't be buying at this time. It has sparklies aka screen door affect like you see on the SilverStar 6.0 gain screens.

Colors were nice. Add to the fact of limited release to Diamond dealers in a poor economy = no sale for me. This should have been out last year, not this year.

Basically I was underwhelmed over all the hype of Laser. I'll wait to see what happens next year or if OLED takes over. If OLED takes off forget laser! OLED is gorgeous!

This is just one persons view.

I can only tell you all this.... The Laser Set looks very good. i got a look at it with my Diamond Dealer friend as he is going to be getting the 65 by Nov 1st(for display) and blacks were inky Detail was very good and the shimmer you get with a Lamp or LED system was not there. It was clear like a CRT set !

I have a 73835 now and I can say I will be ready with cash in hand when the L73-A90S arrives (said Jan 09). The set we viewed there was the L65-A90S and it was very thin and soo light it had a place in back where you can wall mount it with a plasma type backplate from Mits..

So again cost is subjective and what Mits was saying about that to my Dealer Friend was the sets in the future will come down by at least 30% possably 40% by the next season.

They had a HD Disk system on the set and again nature stuff jumped off the screen and the movie parts of there demo showed off the black level.

So if someone at CEDIA saw the set as i read and did not like it then mabey it did not have a good sorce because when i saw it I was very impressed.

Also I have a lot of HDTV's in my house AKA Plasma LCD DLP VPL-200 SXRD and I think the DLP Laser is better then all of these and with time could really be THE next thing....Unless OLED kills everything lol....

As with everything it depends on the people and if they buy into it. But Mits is betting the bank on this Tech...... Time Shall Tell the Story.........

Jim HTPC what were they showing on the sets there... The one I saw was nice and clean....So im confused as to why they look like that. Is it possable they are not the finished product or lower software or missing software ?

Just trying to figure it all out with why the sets look bad at CEDIA.....:confused:

I can only tell you all this.... The Laser Set looks very good. i got a look at it with my Diamond Dealer friend as he is going to be getting the 65 by Nov 1st(for display) and blacks were inky Detail was very good and the shimmer you get with a Lamp or LED system was not there. It was clear like a CRT set !

I have a 73835 now and I can say I will be ready with cash in hand when the L73-A90S arrives (said Jan 09). The set we viewed there was the L65-A90S and it was very thin and soo light it had a place in back where you can wall mount it with a plasma type backplate from Mits..

Very impressive. Where did you want us to mail your check to again?
-Mitsubishi Marketing Department

j/k :D

I do thank everyone for posting comments, and it's nice to hear that not all opinions of it are damning (sounds marginally better than regular DLP per a lot of ppl). Sucks having to wait before the masses can see it, but oh well.

Still, don't stop posting impressions as you see it guys.

And really - is CEDIA a good place to check out black levels / sparkles / etc? I'd think ambient light is on par with or higher than a Best Buy (unless there's viewing rooms to check these out, screens are just too "grey" with ambient light).

I can only tell you all this.... The Laser Set looks very good. i got a look at it with my Diamond Dealer friend as he is going to be getting the 65 by Nov 1st(for display) and blacks were inky Detail was very good and the shimmer you get with a Lamp or LED system was not there. It was clear like a CRT set !

I have a 73835 now and I can say I will be ready with cash in hand when the L73-A90S arrives (said Jan 09). The set we viewed there was the L65-A90S and it was very thin and soo light it had a place in back where you can wall mount it with a plasma type backplate from Mits..

So again cost is subjective and what Mits was saying about that to my Dealer Friend was the sets in the future will come down by at least 30% possably 40% by the next season.

They had a HD Disk system on the set and again nature stuff jumped off the screen and the movie parts of there demo showed off the black level.

So if someone at CEDIA saw the set as i read and did not like it then mabey it did not have a good sorce because when i saw it I was very impressed.

Also I have a lot of HDTV's in my house AKA Plasma LCD DLP VPL-200 SXRD and I think the DLP Laser is better then all of these and with time could really be THE next thing....Unless OLED kills everything lol....

As with everything it depends on the people and if they buy into it. But Mits is betting the bank on this Tech...... Time Shall Tell the Story.........

Since you have a 73835, can you compare with the laservue... given todays news, I expect the 73 Laservue MSRP to be about $8000. The 73835 can be had for about $3000, is it $5000 better?

the entire 120hz thing is just gimmicky, i mean sure it's probably fantastic for watching something like Planet Earth on Blu ray, but it makes movies look cheap and does nothing for videogames.


How is 120hz gimmicky? It does what it does. More frames makes the picture smoother and more real. Movies look cheap that use cheap green screen effects. Maybe now , movie makes will have to upgrade their equipment and give us better movies that look more real!!!! Sorry if our starwars movie look fake now. You can always turn motionflow off.

You wont like 240hz then!!! Nothing gimick about it

How is 120hz gimmicky? It does what it does. More frames makes the picture smoother and more real. Movies look cheap that use cheap green screen effects. Maybe now , movie makes will have to upgrade their equipment and give us better movies that look more real!!!! Sorry if our starwars movie look fake now. You can always turn motionflow off.

You wont like 240hz then!!! Nothing gimick about it

Here's a good excerpt from cnet:

4. Eliminating judder is not for everyone. Judder is part of what makes film look like film, so when you remove it, it starts to look like video. Now, some folks like the look of video and contend that it looks more true-to-life. Both Matthew Moskovciak and I are judder-free fans. On the other hand, David Katzmaier likes the effect only in certain scenes--he generally prefers to leave it turned off during Hollywood films and turned on for some other film-based content, such as the nature documentary Planet Earth--because, in some instances, it can really alter a scene, or at least take away from what the director intended the scene to look like. This is called "director's intent," and movie purists would argue that anti-judder tarnishes the viewing experience much in the same way that performance-enhancing drugs might change the outcome of a sporting event. OK, maybe that's a stretch, but I couldn't help myself.

It doesn't make films look more real, it makes them look more like video (aka cartoony)

I'll reserve judgment on the laservue PQ until I have a chance to see it myself.

And just so that I can bump my post count to three...

Here's a video from CEDIA on the Mits display (Portuguese):
http://revistahometheater.uol.com.br/videos/124.php/

So that I can post the following link to a video at CEDIA...

Here's a video from CEDIA on the Mits display (Portuguese):
http://revistahometheater.uol.com.br/videos/124.php/

OK that was dumb, I got a message stating that I couldn't post with links until after 3 posts... guess that's not really enforced :P

Here's the photo from CEDIA (http://www.hometheatermag.com/news/508mitsline/index.html) that was mentioned earlier (I think):

http://tommycatkins.com/laservue_cedia.jpg

The black of the bezel and stand clearly stand out from the black on the screen. Certainly doesn't look like a $7,000 set should look.

The other point to note about the color gamut... Mitsubishi can master their own demonstration source material to take advantage of the increased color gamut. When you compare that source material against other DLP sets, the Laservue will win out. But most people aren't going to watch Mitsubishi demo material, they're going to watch cable, satellite, DVDs, and Blu-Ray/HD-DVD. Comparing this source material between the Laservue and sets like the 65" Panasonic TH-65PZ850U Plasma and the 65" Sharp Aquos LC-65SE94U LCD which can be had for around $6,000 and $5,000 respectively will show the latter two sets to be the superior ones. (Not to mention that they will be thinner than the Laservue, and thinner seems to be what's really "hot" right now.)

Well, the blacks look pretty unimpressive that's for sure. And Mits was saying that Laser can produce the best blacks and color.... well they certainly havent proved it with black levels, damn.

Iam74Gibson the laser set looked better in my eyes then my 835 due to the detail in black level ...We were in a light controled room ect...I think CEDIA is NOT the place to judge the set..Its prob in torch mode ect....

Please people wait and see it up close and THEN judge...

Originally posted by Iam74Gibson:
Since you have a 73835, can you compare with the laservue... given todays news, I expect the 73 Laservue MSRP to be about $8000. The 73835 can be had for about $3000, is it $5000 better?

I am not quite sure why you think the 73 will come in at $8K. The 73835 is 46% higher than the 65835. That would put the 73" laser much closer to $10K. Those are Best Buy retail prices.

As for the new info on the TV, I agree, the intro price is to high compared to the competition. I has read 3 hands on in this thread, 2 against and 1 for, not enough to go by, but an indication. You won't truly know what it looks like until they put it side-by-side with something else. If Mits thought it was really great, they would have their 65835 setting right beside it going "see, look how much better it is".

Thin is in as well and that price doesn't fit the bill. I hung a Def Tech SM350 off my wall and it wasn't quite 10" deep. When my wife saw it she said "get that suitcase off the wall". She was right, 10" is quite bulky hanging from a wall and that is just the TV depth.

I will patiently wait another year to see what happens with pricing at what Samsung does with their LED DLPs. I would like to see what the the next LED looks like with a DC4 chip.

LaserVue is just DLP with a Laser light source, I don’t understand why people would expect perfect blacks.

LaserVue is just DLP with a Laser light source, I don’t understand why people would expect perfect blacks.

Cause they're charging $7,000 for it?

LaserVue is just DLP with a Laser light source, I don’t understand why people would expect perfect blacks.

Because in theory, you are turning off the light source to produce the Black.

Cause they're charging $7,000 for it?

That’s a rumour, wait and see.

Just got an automated email update here:
http://www.laservuetv.com/home.php

What caught my eye was in the "Gallery":
NY Press Event Photos June 2008!
http://www.laservuetv.com/gallery_ny.php

Particularly photo #'s 2 & 3.
The Laser view is in the middle of the 3 sets.
It is an off angle photo and seems to show, that Mits has not solved brightness degradation when not being viewed from a straight on position.

This was one reason I did not consider buying their rear projection.

What do you think??

VB

Because in theory, you are turning off the light source to produce the Black.


The light source is common to all pixels so if even one pixel is on the light source must remain on. You are then left with the native contrast ratio of the DLP chip, (about 4000:1) to block light for the pixels that should be black. If the light source is bright, as it reportedly is, blacks will not be good.

Originally posted by Owen:
LaserVue is just DLP with a Laser light source, I don’t understand why people would expect perfect blacks.

I will not claim to be the technical expert at all, but here is my simple conclusion from some of the posts in this thread. Basically since the laser light source can be turned on/off it offers a better chance at perfect blacks as opposed to the constant "on" of a bulb.

Originally posted by Owen:
That’s a rumour, wait and see.

I am not quite sure why you are calling the $7K price a rumor. So you are saying a respected HT publication who is at CEDIA and talked with Mits is just spreading rumors.

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2008/090408Mits/

I will not claim to be the technical expert at all, but here is my simple conclusion from some of the posts in this thread. Basically since the laser light source can be turned on/off it offers a better chance at perfect blacks as opposed to the constant "on" of a bulb.
More importantly, the ordered nature of laser light will result in a marked improvement in ANSI contrast compared to the more randomized light that a bulb puts out.

Still, seven grand....

The light source is common to all pixels so if even one pixel is on the light source must remain on. You are then left with the native contrast ratio of the DLP chip, (about 4000:1) to block light for the pixels that should be black.

The Panasonic Viera Plasma TH-65PZ850U that just came out has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1. The Dynamic is 1,000,000:1. Its MSRP is $6,999, just like the Laservue. Color gamut-wise, it can do 120% over standard (the Laservue is supposed to do 200% over standard). However, that really only becomes noticeable with source material that actually has increased color data.

Someone who just bought one took some pictures in the Plasma forum. Here's s closeup of a standard def DVD. Note how close the blacks match the bezel:

http://tommycatkins.com/65PZ850U_Blacks.jpg

Unless the Laservue can match performance like that, I can't see why anyone would choose the Laservue over the Viera.

I am not quite sure why you are calling the $7K price a rumor. So you are saying a respected HT publication who is at CEDIA and talked with Mits is just spreading rumors.

http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2008/090408Mits/


Until you can walk into a store that has the set in stock and haggle a price, the price is unknown.

But in order to fully recoup costs, they will need to be able to sell to this Everyone people. At 7K (6K, 8K, what's the difference. It's still too much money) this tv will not sell to Everyone. Heck, it'll be difficult to sell to the select Few at that kind of price.

So explain to me why Mits would put the unit out, only to let it fad away. Wouldn't it be more business savy to just not ship it, like Sony and their RP business?

You need to review the Sony history on the Z70XBR5 and the A3000 SXRD series.

More importantly, the ordered nature of laser light will result in a marked improvement in ANSI contrast compared to the more randomized light that a bulb puts out.

Still, seven grand....

The laser light will need to pass through a diffuser to spread it over the DLP chip surface. Lamp and LED based DLP’s also have a diffuser in the light path and as far as I know a polarizing filter as well, so you get “ordered” light at the DLP chip in all cases.

I'm a HUGE fan of LED/Laser Light Engine and don't care if the cabinet is 10-14" deep, I just don't think RPTV can survive at this price.

RPTV is dead at any price. Its the wife factor.

The Panasonic Viera Plasma TH-65PZ850U that just came out has a native contrast ratio of 30,000:1. The Dynamic is 1,000,000:1. Its MSRP is $6,999, just like the Laservue. Color gamut-wise, it can do 130% over standard (the Laservue is supposed to do 200% over standard). However, that really only becomes noticeable with source material that actually has increased color data.

Someone who just bought one took some pictures in the Plasma forum. Here's s closeup of a standard def DVD. Note how close the blacks match the bezel:

Unless the Laservue can match performance like that, I can't see why anyone would choose the Laservue over the Viera.


We have a new Viera here and the contrast ratio is not 30:000:1 no matter what Panasonic say. Blacks are no where near black in a dark room and all tests on 8 series Panasonics confirm that.
G9 Kuro blacks are much darker, but still not black. We will have to wait for G10 for real blacks.

RPTV is dead at any price. Its the wife factor.


Yep, and it does not matter how good it is.

Jim HTPC what were they showing on the sets there... The one I saw was nice and clean....So im confused as to why they look like that. Is it possable they are not the finished product or lower software or missing software ?

Just trying to figure it all out with why the sets look bad at CEDIA.....:confused:



Or perhaps what you saw in the past was an earlier model prototype.

LaserVue is just DLP with a Laser light source, I don’t understand why people would expect perfect blacks.

Cause they're charging $7,000 for it?

With that thinking Grendell, shouldn't the $60k Plasmas and $30k LCDs should have perfect blacks as well?

A $7k Laservue seems cheap in comparison

Originally posted by Owen:
Until you can walk into a store that has the set in stock and haggle a price, the price is unknown.

According to your logic then every suggested retail price is just a rumor then. :)

The laser light will need to pass through a diffuser to spread it over the DLP chip surface.
That's probably how Mits are doing it, but to suggest they "need to" is pushing it. The same job could be done with lenses, which would have minimal impact on sequential contrast.

Lamp and LED based DLP’s also have a diffuser in the light path and as far as I know a polarizing filter as well, so you get “ordered” light at the DLP chip in all cases.
Polarising filters are one of the biggest contrast bottlenecks in projectors currently.

But in any case I was meaning something different - all the photons flowing in the same direction and not bouncing around, nothing to do with polarisation.

I am not quite sure why you think the 73 will come in at $8K. The 73835 is 46% higher than the 65835. That would put the 73" laser much closer to $10K. Those are Best Buy retail prices.

As for the new info on the TV, I agree, the intro price is to high compared to the competition. I has read 3 hands on in this thread, 2 against and 1 for, not enough to go by, but an indication. You won't truly know what it looks like until they put it side-by-side with something else. If Mits thought it was really great, they would have their 65835 setting right beside it going "see, look how much better it is".

Thin is in as well and that price doesn't fit the bill. I hung a Def Tech SM350 off my wall and it wasn't quite 10" deep. When my wife saw it she said "get that suitcase off the wall". She was right, 10" is quite bulky hanging from a wall and that is just the TV depth.

I will patiently wait another year to see what happens with pricing at what Samsung does with their LED DLPs. I would like to see what the the next LED looks like with a DC4 chip.

My $8k figure was a conservative estimate. But UNLESS the 65 makes a REAL SPLASH (and so far it doesn't seem like it) They will either have to lower the intro price, or maybe not come out with a 73 at all. It will be really hard to sell any kind of volume at $10k.

And I agree, the depth at that price is a big negative for a lot of folks.

I was just just looking at the Cedia Website at the Best New Technology... and , well, Mits wasn't listed.... Maybe laservue has underwhelmed...

http://www.cedia.net/awards/

Great speculation going's on here. Would be great to get comparative feedback from a Q006 Owner that forked over $13K "STREET" for theirs.

MSRP out of the gate is a time game - early adopters pay out the piehole but patience makes a huge difference. Sharp SE 65" MSRP 6 months ago was $10K with controlled distribution channels and now can be had easily for under $5K. The first 65" Sharp LCD was MSRP'd at over $20K 3 yrs ago and now they can be had for $4K-$5K depending on model.

The new Sharp RGB LED 65" with 150%+ Color Gamut and one million to one CR is rumored to be $10-$15K MSRP but the same patience eventually rewards one.

OLED in HT sizes is at least 2 years away - Sharp and Pio are partnered in that venture and many others but the problem is life cycle is half that of current panels and that's a huge factor to resolve.

The Mits Laser photo's may not truly represent HT experiences as it appears ambient lighting and viewing angles outside the sweet spot may provide a less than stellar experience when in reality it may be quite different in ones living room with one's dedicated sweet spot. How many of us have tried to take photo's of what we see on our panels and it's rare they actually match what our eyes truly perceive.

I just viewed the video and it's clearly a poor quality video and easily observable there are at least three or more overhead lights above and behind the panel that are lit and directed at the display and that would not happen in your home theater. Watch as they switch to the right side panel and notice the huge glare on the sign above before panning down to the laservue and that glare is huge and from at least 3 exhibition hall type floodlights. Obviously Mits did not sponsor this amateur video loaded with flicker and off angles.

I trust that even the Diamond will come down to reality in consumer pricing and if the feedback is less than stellar it'll be sooner than later.:)

Because in theory, you are turning off the light source to produce the Black.

I don't see how that helps, unless you can turn on/off the light source for each pixel. But if they can do that, well, then they have a true laser display so they don't even need a DLP chip.

If they can only turn it on/off for the entire chip, then sure, you can get some awesome black screen, and fade to black is truly black (look ma, no light!), but not much else.

Just got an automated email update here:
http://www.laservuetv.com/home.php

What caught my eye was in the "Gallery":
NY Press Event Photos June 2008!
http://www.laservuetv.com/gallery_ny.php

Particularly photo #'s 2 & 3.
The Laser view is in the middle of the 3 sets.
It is an off angle photo and seems to show, that Mits has not solved brightness degradation when not being viewed from a straight on position.

This was one reason I did not consider buying their rear projection.

What do you think??

VB

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Mits has not managed to defy optics?

sorry, I don't mean to sound smug. I don't know how a laser light source would solve RPTV's usual flaws. if someone knows differently, pls chime in.

Just got an automated email update here:
http://www.laservuetv.com/home.php

What caught my eye was in the "Gallery":
NY Press Event Photos June 2008!
http://www.laservuetv.com/gallery_ny.php

Particularly photo #'s 2 & 3.
The Laser view is in the middle of the 3 sets.
It is an off angle photo and seems to show, that Mits has not solved brightness degradation when not being viewed from a straight on position.

This was one reason I did not consider buying their rear projection.

What do you think??

VB

I noticed that too. My biggest potential gripe is the vertical angle. Assuming it's not much improved over current DLP sets, it's absolutely certain I wouldn't buy this over current DLP tech. I have a mid size room, and the horizontal isn't too much of an issue -- it's the vertical with kids on the floor, adults standing, sitting, etc.

If LaserVue doesn't solve these issues, which I'm guessing at this point it doesn't, the price tag is insane.

But in the end, I'm not that concerned with the specs -- I'll need to see it myself.

As a parent, my concern is unsupervised kids. If Mom is doing the laundry for a short while and the kids throw a toy at the screen and then stare through the hole at the pretty lasers, what damage could that do to eyesight? Is this a valid concern?

... I don't know how a laser light source would solve RPTV's usual flaws. if someone knows differently, pls chime in.

I have read (have lost the reference but sounded good at the time) that the theory is that the coherence of laser light allows more efficient use for display generation, especially with a DLP chip. Looks like we'll see soon how well this theory works out.

... I don't know how a laser light source would solve RPTV's usual flaws. if someone knows differently, pls chime in.

I have read (have lost the reference but sounded good at the time) that the theory is that the coherence of laser light allows more efficient use for display generation, especially with a DLP chip, which in turn reduces the compromises inherent in things like angle viewing. Looks like we'll see soon how well this theory works out.

Just got an automated email update here:
http://www.laservuetv.com/home.php

What caught my eye was in the "Gallery":
NY Press Event Photos June 2008!
http://www.laservuetv.com/gallery_ny.php

Particularly photo #'s 2 & 3.
The Laser view is in the middle of the 3 sets.
It is an off angle photo and seems to show, that Mits has not solved brightness degradation when not being viewed from a straight on position.

This was one reason I did not consider buying their rear projection.

What do you think??

VB


Could Mits use a series of any worse pics to use for advertising the new LV set...holy crap.:eek::confused:

In all the photos the LV set looks either too red and washed out or the pic is from sooooo far off angle it looks awefully dim.

In the one shot that actually shows the three sets from close to "normal" viewing angle I think the set on the far right has the best overall image quality.

I just hope the folks designing/building the sets know their craft better than the advertising department who's responsible for these pictures.:p

BTW...can anyone tell the brand/model of the set on the right? :)

In thoery they could use PWM on the laser based on APL to achieve what a dynamic iris does on a per frame basis. This coupled with the DLP mirror modulation already used. Thus in low light level scenes they could achieve a very good black level. If they couple that with good optics (like the Q006 I have) it "could" produce a very nice picture. I am very interested in seeing one (but I will need a 73" to replace my blob infested Q006 :( ).

At $7,000 for 65", that means the 73" will probably cost $8,000 or more. I can't see being able to justify that, when I can probably get a 65" RPTV for half those prices at Xmas sales.
You can get them for 1/4 that price now.

How is 120hz gimmicky? It does what it does. More frames makes the picture smoother and more real.
How can it introduce simulated frames and be more "real"? An individual may find the look preferrable, but it can't be more real.

I will not claim to be the technical expert at all, but here is my simple conclusion from some of the posts in this thread. Basically since the laser light source can be turned on/off it offers a better chance at perfect blacks as opposed to the constant "on" of a bulb.
It's no different than LED sets now... if the content is 100% black across all pixels, then sure, perfect black. But as soon as any pixels need light, you are then limited to the native contrast ratio of the DLP chip from the brightest to dimmest pixel.

Until you can walk into a store that has the set in stock and haggle a price, the price is unknown.
Considering that these are being released through the "Diamond" network, haggle room should be MUCH more limited than with more mainstream products.

I guess I wouldn't be surprised if Mits has not managed to defy optics?

sorry, I don't mean to sound smug. I don't know how a laser light source would solve RPTV's usual flaws. if someone knows differently, pls chime in.
The viewing angle expectations come from Mitsubishi's own marketing info. They claim viewing angles comparable to plasma. The problems with current RPTV stem mostly from the high gain screens they have to use to provide sufficient brightness. Mits' claims insinuate that the laser sets have so much light output they can forgoe the high gain screens.

In thoery they could use PWM on the laser based on APL to achieve what a dynamic iris does on a per frame basis.

That's what Samsung's LED sets are doing already. But you're still limited to the native contrast ratio of the DLP from the brightest to dimmest pixels. In Samsung's case, they are using the older DC3. So in theory, the current Samsung LED DLPs should have better absolute (full black to full white) contrast ratios then the current Mits bulb based sets, but the Mits sets should have better contrast within a real world scene.

You need to review the Sony history on the Z70XBR5 and the A3000 SXRD series.

Not sure that I wish to.

If I have a duff product that I've been trying to talk up, I think I'd quietly stop mentioning it, swallow the R&D costs and move on.

I wouldn't piss off the public by releasing a POS and then wondering why it got panned, or spending more money trying to fix something that I knew wasn't going to work in the first place.

Maybe I'm just simplistic.... :p

Seggers

Lasers or not you can't solve the internal reflections issue of a RP set. They might be able to put up a really dark solid black screen, but throw up an ANSI checkerboard pattern and watch the luminance of the black climb considerably. Direct view flat panels like LCD and Plasma have much less shift from an all black screen to a ANSI checkerboard pattern.

I am very interested in seeing one (but I will need a 73" to replace my blob infested Q006 :( ).

Your Qualia got the blob and now you're considering laservue? You have a high tolerance for pain :)

Alright, well I had my heart set on the 73" laservue, but anything over 5k just isn't even worth me thinking about anymore. So is the only real contender in the big sizes for good PQ the 73835? I've been trying to read some of the threads about the set and so far people like it, but I'm not seeing any screenshots on here of the set. I currently have a 60" Philips that I bought from Sam's Club a little less than 4 years ago. How would the black levels of the 73835 stack up to say a 9G Kuro? I live in a rather small town so I can't really do much viewing of the actual sets, closest BB is a little over an hour away. Thanks.

Your Qualia got the blob and now you're considering laservue? You have a high tolerance for pain :)

:) Yes I must. Actually I "hope" by the time the 73" comes out much will be known on it... Of course I thought the same about the Q. I'm kind of stuck since I don't have any light control for the room, and can't stand bad pictures (Been through a few supposedly good systems - not so good as it turns out...).

I just got back from my local Modia store (formerly Home Theater Store) and while waiting for the salesman to get back from lunch, I got into a conversation with the store manager.

I told him that if the current $7k price is accurate for the 65" it is out of the range I want to spend... especially considering I want the 73" which will cost more.

I went there to look at the WD-73835 as an alternative (more about this later). The manager told me, and verified with another sales guy (BTW, these were older guys who looked like they have been in the business a long time and had connections) that when they were at a Mitsubishi sales meeting. That he was talking to a Mits VP (He mentioned his name and the other guy said... "oh yeah, I remember him")

He said the VP would not tell him a price, but that they played the old "you are getting warmer/colder" game. And that he came away with the impression that the 65" laservue will cost between $4800-$5500.

I could see no reason he would tell me this unless true, considering I was there to potentially buy an 835. He also told me that it will be extremely hard to get (65") until late in October and to not to expect the 73 until late spring/summer next year. Well, this got me to thinking... maybe Mits let the $7k price slip out as misinformation, so when things are formerly announced the $5500 or so won't seem so bad... and people will be glad to pay it (just a theory)

Even so, the max I was willing to pay for a 73 was $6k, and considering I maybe can't get one until middle of next year. I think I will go with the 835.

About the 835... I obviously cannot compare to the laservue.. but compared to the 833 and previous models, I think it looks pretty darn good.

When my sales guys showed up and we were talking about the 835, he told me that the one on display had not been professionally calibrated. Maybe true, maybe not (find it hard to believe since they offer that service) He said out of the box the colors and brightness are jacked way up, and calibrating once in your home makes a big difference (any comments on if this is true? .. I mean it may look better, but is it worth $400?)

The only negative thing I could see about PQ, was there was a football game on cable which had Ohio/Ohio St.... One team had bright red jerseys.. I could see a little ghosting/convergence issue around the bright red. The salesman said this was due to a crappy cable feed. He put on a blu-ray, and it looked pretty awesome. I am about 95% sure I am going with the 835 unless new (good) news about lower pricing and availabilty comes out about the laservue within the next week or two. I figure I will keep the 835 for a couple of years, and by that time Laservue will be more mature and cheaper (if still around) and other non-RPTV options may be available.

One last thing... the store manager had a theory that Mitsubishi is waiting until the holiday shopping season to "explode" into the market and potentially deal a death blow (mortally wound anyway) the plasma and LCD makers. Interesting concept... but most holiday shoppers are women, and most care more about how it looks hanging on the wall than the PQ. And even though men typically shop for this kind of product, we have to get approval (WAF)... but interesting theory.

Thanks Gibson for your post. How would you say the black levels on the 835 are? Were you able to compare them to say a 9G Kuro? I am now thinking about the 835 as well, does anyone know of any new sets that have been announced that are going to come out soon in the 70"+ range? The roughly $3200 that the 835 seems to be going for currently is making me wonder if perhaps they will drop considerably for the holiday season.

Thanks Gibson for your post. How would you say the black levels on the 835 are? Were you able to compare them to say a 9G Kuro? I am now thinking about the 835 as well, does anyone know of any new sets that have been announced that are going to come out soon in the 70"+ range? The roughly $3200 that the 835 seems to be going for currently is making me wonder if perhaps they will drop considerably for the holiday season.

Here, try this link. It's for a tad less that the 3200 you have there....

BTW, I have this link cause that's where I intend to buy it from, not that I make anything from it....

Seggers

https://www.hometheaterstore.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=WD73835