Owen, the pixels and artifacts I am seeing are from the source. I could sit much closer if I wanted to when watching BR. Glad you like your 70" SXRD. Thank goodness for us that nothing will ever make us have to trade sets or viewing distances. :)


I used to blame the source as well but now I know better. 8 bit processing in CRT TV’s IS a serious limitation.

I'm curious as to why so many folks are obsessing over prices when those same folks don't seem to be interested in purchasing the TV at any price. Why is that?

Probably for the same reason you are commenting on other people's comments, even though you have no vested interest in what they say. People have opinions, and they like to share them.

First off (don't be offended) I don't think that most of you guys know much about business and how things are run so I'll just comment briefly because it will probably erk some people anyway...

I'm not understanding your point. Yes, some are frustrated with the pricing and comparing it to DLP. Years ago Sony brought out the Qualia line and if I remember correctly the first 60" version was around $10k or more. However, that was a different time where microdisplays ruled the large screen size market with a new type of techhnology. However, todays market is different.

Despite the fact that some don't mind the box (I don't care for it but if the PQ is there I can overlook that), most people today want a flat panel. We also have to consider that Laservue has still not shown a single sign of whether it's PQ is superior to plasma or LCD let alone a comparable DLP. Yes it may claim a broader color range but manufacturers always stretch the truth in marketing. Laservue is supposedly coming out very soon and it still hasn't given details and we haven't heard any kind of comparisons from a reputable source.

Having said that, why would anyone be OK with this high pricing on Mits' part other than those who have the cash and want the latest (but not necessarily the greatest)?

Been on this thread a couple of times over the last 2 weeks as I'm in the market (anytime between now and year end) for what will be my third rear projector. The previous two were Mitsus. Because I choose to live in a very remote area, I have very little ooportunity to view new sets in person and give a lot of weight to much of what's reported on the AVS site when making my buying decision. I was looking for relevent info on the new Laservues. I was disappointed to see this thread has turned into a bitch slap. Several posters here sound like 14 year old girls sniping and trying to get the last word in. Come on, let's get back to the topic at hand.

What is there to get on topic about? There hasn't been any new info in a long time other than an MSRP for the 65" model.

Been on this thread a couple of times over the last 2 weeks as I'm in the market (anytime between now and year end) for what will be my third rear projector. The previous two were Mitsus. Because I choose to live in a very remote area, I have very little ooportunity to view new sets in person and give a lot of weight to much of what's reported on the AVS site when making my buying decision. I was looking for relevent info on the new Laservues. I was disappointed to see this thread has turned into a bitch slap. Several posters here sound like 14 year old girls sniping and trying to get the last word in. Come on, let's get back to the topic at hand.

Since there is no information on this set, would you rather no posts were made for a few months and the thread slipped into obscurity?

Here in the big city, we'd rather keep threads alive.

Been on this thread a couple of times over the last 2 weeks as I'm in the market (anytime between now and year end) for what will be my third rear projector. The previous two were Mitsus. Because I choose to live in a very remote area, I have very little ooportunity to view new sets in person and give a lot of weight to much of what's reported on the AVS site when making my buying decision. I was looking for relevent info on the new Laservues. I was disappointed to see this thread has turned into a bitch slap. Several posters here sound like 14 year old girls sniping and trying to get the last word in. Come on, let's get back to the topic at hand.

Suggest you use Cnet.com then, as clearly you are dissappointed with AVS.

I've been following this thread since it started because I'm in the market for a new Blu-ray source component. Gawd almighty - will somebody post a review!


In the process of upgrading the video side of my A/V equipment. Hope you don't mind me hijacking this thread...

Yes, some are frustrated with the pricing and comparing it to DLP.

The LaserVue IS a DLP. Just a new (and apparently expensive) type of light source. Or did I misunderstand your comment?

I went back and read all posts form the top of this page and I guess I was wrong - those posts starting with #1987 (Hipnotiq, Audiomixer, and Darin) are well thought out and contribute much to the understanding of this new technology. Ya right! I was just trying to say, let's stop all the quibbling and get back to talking about the new Mitsus - nothing more, nothing less.

Beachcomber - I'm not at all disappointed with AVS. I probably check in on the topics I'm interested in at least twice a day, mostly 7 days a week. I find it a very valuable resource - especially given my geographic location. I AM however, disappointed when some posters on here start acting like spoiled 14 year olds and have little to contribute that's informative or helpful and seemingly get their jollies from negative, sarcastic, hurtful remarks.

Nuff said. I'll shut up and hope to read more information here that will help me make an informed decision on which display to purchase.

Just an FYI, I don't know of anyone over the age of 14 that uses the term "Nuff said".

The guy from Best Buy/Magnolia said the that Mits people told them that they're working on making the cabinet for the LaserVue slimmer so that future editions will be shallower - not so for this first release, though. So maybe waiting is a good thing to do - i.e., wait until its second version is out. Also, the Sony XBR LED is coming next quarter.

Just an FYI, I don't know of anyone over the age of 14 that uses the term "Nuff said".hEY, THE GUY WAS REALLY TRYING TO APOLIGIZE, DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO COME BACK WITH A SMART ASSED COMMENT LIKE THAT//

hEY, THE GUY WAS REALLY TRYING TO APOLIGIZE, DID YOU REALLY HAVE TO COME BACK WITH A SMART ASSED COMMENT LIKE THAT//

Words escape me.

Words escape me.

How about a snappy, smart ass comeback like this?

http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showpost.php?p=12247160&postcount=10

Just an FYI, I don't know of anyone over the age of 14 that uses the term "Nuff said".

I know many who do, but I know none that would care about people using this expression.

Greets,
Klaus

Beachcomber - Wow, you have a real talent there for taking posters' previous posts on totally different subjects (both mine and Julian11's) totally out of context and using them to support your current argument. I see you've been a member for a whole 8 months now and have 1,100+ posts. That pretty much says it all right there.

To the rest of you - I apologize that my well intentioned original post was designed to stop the quibbling and get back on topic and it's only created more quibbling. A lesson learned.

I demand more quibbling. rabble rabble rabble

The LaserVue IS a DLP. Just a new (and apparently expensive) type of light source. Or did I misunderstand your comment?

I know Laservue uses a DLP chip. I was just saying people are comparing laservue to lamp and LED based DLP. That's all. :)

I demand more quibbling. rabble rabble rabble

+1

It's more fun when it gets heated. There's a fine line to all though, or the mods come in here and reign us all back in again. :D

Back on topic though, has anyone actually seen something other than an AVSGuestamate price for these bad boys?

Seggers

Originally posted by seggers:
Back on topic though, has anyone actually seen something other than an AVSGuestamate price for these bad boys?

I am pretty sure the "AVSGuestamate price" came from information given to major magazines at CEDIA. MSRPs for other procucts are given at CEDIA and nobody batts an eye. Why question whether the Laservue MSRP is real?

http://www.engadget.com/2008/09/06/mitsubishis-65-inch-laservue-priced-at-cedia-6-999/
http://blog.hometheatermag.com/cedia2008/090408Mits/
http://bitstream.soundandvisionmag.com/blog/2008/09/mitsubishi-anno.html

I know Laservue uses a DLP chip. I was just saying people are comparing laservue to lamp and LED based DLP. That's all. :)

Good point. And you're absolutely right.

if by guesstimate you mean what a Mits rep said on camera at CEDIA and reported by several sites and not contradicted by any source since, then yeah, $6999 is the best guesstimate we have for now.

not sure why people still insist on the price being speculative when it's what Mits put out themselves. Now certainly Mits can change the price between now and release if they want, but for now, it is what it is.

Well excuse my blanking out for a mo..... :o

Looks like we're now back on track a bit more. :p

Seggers

Is there a track? Seems like 68 pages of rumour, speculation and complaint about price – availability to me.
When Laservue is actually available, has been calibrated by a pro and properly assessed for performance against its competition me may have something useful to discuses.
A couple of months after release the real street price will become apparent as well.
January-February 2009 looks like a good time to consider purchase for those who don’t want to pay early adopters tax, and by then there should be adequate feedback on real world performance.

A review I read said that when placed side-by-side with, e.g., a plasma TV, the increased color spectrum of the Laservue becomes apparent, but if one watches that plasma by itself, it looks fine, because the brain adjusts to what it sees and thinks that it's seeing all the color there is to see. Thus, if one looks at a Laservue in the store and then goes home and watches a good TV, one may not mentally be able to picture much difference. Based on this, TV stores are going to have to decide whether to place the Mits next to another good TV, because it may make what is actually a very good TV look pale in comparison, whereas if the buyer took that TV home, he'd be very pleased with it.

I was told by a sales rep at a high end electronics store that whatever TV I decided to buy, I will be happy with it when I get it home and set up properly. I have looked at so many TV's over the past 6 months that I'm going blind. I personally think the best BIG screen set for the price is the Sammy 67" LED DLP. I have seen it in the store and at home and it's fantastic. I can't believe waiting to pay $7000 for the Laser will bring me that much more satisfaction. But then again who am I to say.

A review I read said that when placed side-by-side with, e.g., a plasma TV, the increased color spectrum of the Laservue becomes apparent,


That’s not encouraging at all since Plasma’s typically have oversaturated red and very oversaturated greens already. If the Laservue has even more over saturated primary colours its so inaccurate that its not worth looking at unless the primaries can be constrained back to the REC 709 HD standard, which is unlikely to be possible.

i was told by a sales rep at a high end electronics store that whatever tv i decided to buy, i will be happy with it when i get it home and set up properly. I have looked at so many tv's over the past 6 months that i'm going blind. I personally think the best big screen set for the price is the sammy 67" led dlp. I have seen it in the store and at home and it's fantastic. I can't believe waiting to pay $7000 for the laser will bring me that much more satisfaction. But then again who am i to say.

+1
u are right u are paying $7000 for a DLP with lasers instead of a lamp

January-February 2009 looks like a good time to consider purchase for those who don’t want to pay early adopters tax, and by then there should be adequate feedback on real world performance.

Not in the USA. More TVs are sold in that period because of SuperBowl.

You need to wait until after SuperBowl to get the best prices in USA.

I was told by a sales rep at a high end electronics store that whatever TV I decided to buy, I will be happy with it when I get it home and set up properly.

Absolute BS from a SalesPerson.

What if you buy a projector and expect it to work day and night in your family room with no light controls?

What if you buy a set that has terrible off axis viewing and your seating is not in the correct places?

What if someone primarily watches Sports and buys a Plasma?

There are all kinds of examples that blow that statement out of the water.

It is still DLP , that is correct but a new form where the light source is lasers, however im sure its more complex than that in these new displays.

Does anyone know if they will be 3 chip DLP sets? Maybe that is the reason for the high price aswell.

It is still DLP , that is correct but a new form where the light source is lasers, however im sure its more complex than that in these new displays.

Does anyone know if they will be 3 chip DLP sets? Maybe that is the reason for the high price aswell.

If there were a low-price consumer-affordable 3-chip DLP coming on the market anytime soon, this would be making headlines. I don't think there is any way this is a 3-chip TV.

The other as yet unknown issue is geometry. They're essentially using a very wide angle lens, at the depth and screen size these sets have, to project an image on the screen

Try getting a very wide angle lens on your camera to take an undistorted picture of something like a 60 inch wide grid from 10 inches away sometime.

It is still DLP , that is correct but a new form where the light source is lasers, however im sure its more complex than that in these new displays.

Does anyone know if they will be 3 chip DLP sets? Maybe that is the reason for the high price aswell.

nope. anything with 3 dlp chips in it starts at $20,000+

A review I read said that when placed side-by-side with, e.g., a plasma TV, the increased color spectrum of the Laservue becomes apparent, but if one watches that plasma by itself, it looks fine, because the brain adjusts to what it sees and thinks that it's seeing all the color there is to see. Thus, if one looks at a Laservue in the store and then goes home and watches a good TV, one may not mentally be able to picture much difference. Based on this, TV stores are going to have to decide whether to place the Mits next to another good TV, because it may make what is actually a very good TV look pale in comparison, whereas if the buyer took that TV home, he'd be very pleased with it.

Just one question.. HOW CAN YOU SEE INCREASED COLOR WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY MATERIAL OUT THERE WITH THE INCREASED COLOR!? On top of that, I want to see two manufacturers put out their own TV's with their own calibrations side by side. It's like giving a Chevy to Ford and telling Ford to race the Chevy against a Ford that is supposed to be better. Which one do you think is going to win?!

Just one question.. HOW CAN YOU SEE INCREASED COLOR WHEN THERE ISN'T ANY MATERIAL OUT THERE WITH THE INCREASED COLOR!? On top of that, I want to see two manufacturers put out their own TV's with their own calibrations side by side. It's like giving a Chevy to Ford and telling Ford to race the Chevy against a Ford that is supposed to be better. Which one do you think is going to win?!

Maybe it's that current TVs don't display their full capability - i.e., maybe it's like 16-bit versus 32-bit color on your computer monitor, and the Mits can do 32-bits and the others can't, because their light source isn't capable? Just guessing. I'll see if I can find the article.

This article makes it sound like the Laservue may be too much of a good thing - i.e., like, I guess, the colors in the movie Speed Racer. So bright as to seem artificial: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html

From http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21996/:

The main difference with a laser display, however, is that it uses lasers as the light source. Usually, projection displays shine white light through a color wheel, and then it's projected onto the screen. This approach is inefficient, filtering out much of the original brightness. Laser displays use red, blue, and green lasers to directly deliver the color to the screen. Lasers not only have a brightness and color advantage over filtered white light, but they also have an advantage over light-emitting diode (LED) technology, another up-and-coming display backlight. The color produced by a laser is much more pure than that produced by an LED because the former allows for more-precise color combinations. The net result is an extremely crisp, lifelike image in which white is many times brighter than standard high-definition displays, and black is many times darker.

From: http://www.mediaspy.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=9609

IT'S being hailed by its developers as the next revolution in visual technology - a laser television that will make plasma screens obsolete.
Soon-to-be-listed Australian company Arasor International and its US partner Novalux unveiled what they claimed to be the world's first laser television in Sydney today, with a pitch that it would be half the price, twice as good, and use a quarter of the electricity of conventional plasma and LCD TVs.
Manufacturing company Arasor produces the unique optoelectronic chip central to the laser projection device being developed by Silicon Valley-based Novalux, which is being used by a number of television manufacturers.
And displayed beside a conventional 50 inch plasma TV this afternoon, the Mitsubishi-built prototype does appear brighter and clearer than its “older” rival.
With a worldwide launch date scheduled for Christmas 2007, under recognisable brands like Mitsubishi and Samsung, Novalux chief executive Jean-Michel Pelaprat is so bold as to predict the death of plasma. tombstone.gif
“If you look at any screen today, the colour content is roughly about 30-35 per cent of what the eye can see,” he said.
“But for the very first time with a laser TV we'll be able to see 90 per cent of what the eye can see.
“All of a sudden what you see is a lifelike image on display.”
Combine that with energy efficiency, price advantage and the fact that the laser TVs will be half the weight and depth of plasma TVS, and Mr Pelaprat says “plasma is now something of the past”.
Mr Pelaprat predicted LCD TVs would come to dominate the market below 40 inches, and laser television the market above that screen size, displacing plasma.
The optoelectronic chip-laser technology won't be confined to TVs.
The technology is also being trialled in mobile phones, where it will be used to project images onto any surface, and in home theatres and cinemas.
The unveiling of the laser TV prototype was held on the eve of Arasor's public float on the Australian Stock Exchange next week.

The LED DLP show a wider color Gamut. Obviously not as wide as the LASERVUE will but the LED DLP sets have 3 settings, sRGB, Normal, and Wide.
Any setting other than sRGB shifts the colors. outside of what is supposed to be used for the content so the colors don't look right.
the sRGB setting produces accurate colors in the full range of colors that were meant to be seen.
I would think the same thing would apply to LASERVUE. Why would you want something showing twice the color gamut when all content was only made to show at most 100% of the color Gamut. You would be adding and shifting colors from where they were meant to be.

The LED DLP show a wider color Gamut. Obviously not as wide as the LASERVUE will but the LED DLP sets have 3 settings, sRGB, Normal, and Wide.
Any setting other than sRGB shifts the colors. outside of what is supposed to be used for the content so the colors don't look right.
the sRGB setting produces accurate colors in the full range of colors that were meant to be seen.
I would think the same thing would apply to LASERVUE. Why would you want something showing twice the color gamut when all content was only made to show at most 100% of the color Gamut. You would be adding and shifting colors from where they were meant to be.

I suspect Mitsubishi and the Laservue development team believe they have something good (or, rather, better) to offer the viewer, and that it's not color distortion. If it distorted colors, the TV would have been a non-starter. They know in this price range that it has to pass calibration tests and magazine reviews with "flying colors," so to speak.

I suspect Mitsubishi and the Laservue development team believe they have something good (or, rather, better) to offer the viewer, and that it's not color distortion. If it distorted colors, the TV would have been a non-starter. They know in this price range that it has to pass calibration tests and magazine reviews with "flying colors," so to speak.

Why, the Sony OLED hasnt? In fact, there is no calibration controls on the Sony OLED, which for $2500 you would expect.

The following is a range of test results for HD color gamut accuracy, as can be seen all displays reproduce the full HD gamut and many typically exceed it, some by a significant margin for red and particularly for green. Mitsubishis suggestion that an even more exaggerated gamut is in some why an advantage is just a deception and marketing hype.
Until video source is available that uses a wider gamut (not likely in the foreseeable future) there is no use for it. What is needed is accuracy to the existing HD color standard.


Sony SXRD A3000 (uncalibrated), a virtually text book perfect response with a UHP lamp, no LED’s or Laserers

http://hometheatermag.com/images/archivesart/1207sony3000.fig5.jpg



Samsung HL-T5687S (uncalibrated), sRGB mode.

http://ultimateavmag.com/images/archivesart/807samhlt56.fig7.jpg



Samsung HL-T5687S (uncalibrated), “Wide” color space mode. Note how oversaturated the primary colors are. This oversaturated and inaccurate response is typical of most LCD and Plasma displays as well.

http://ultimateavmag.com/images/archivesart/807samhlt56.fig8.jpg



Mitsubishi WD-57833 DLP (calibrated)

http://hometheatermag.com/images/archivesart/208FaceOff.27.jpg



Pioneer Elite PRO-111FD Plasma (calibrated) another almost perfect result.

http://ultimateavmag.com/images/archivesart/808pio111.Fig4.jpg



Samsung HL-T6187S LED DLP (calibrated) Another almost text book perfect response.

http://hometheatermag.com/images/archivesart/208FaceOff.7.jpg



Panasonic TH-58PZ750U Plasma, a typical Plasma oversaturated response.

http://hometheatermag.com/images/archivesart/508pana.cie.jpg

Well, if a person needs to cut back the color gamut on the Laservue so it won't look like carnival lights, then there is really no sense or reason for waiting for it or buying it, other than reduced electric bills. Can most LCDs and Plasmas be calibrated for a proper saturation? I hate spending the $350, but it may be worth it, if I can't do it on my own like I was able to do my GWII with UMR's tweaks.

Can most LCDs and Plasmas be calibrated for a proper saturation?

Generally no, for Plasma only the Pioneers can be adjusted for proper primary and secondary color point alignment as far as I know. I am not aware any LCD’s that can be correctly aligned.

Generally no, for Plasma only the Pioneers can be adjusted for proper primary and secondary color point alignment as far as I know. I am not aware any LCD’s that can be correctly aligned.

Does that mean that the only TVs that can be properly aligned, other than CRTs, are rear-projection TVs - whether DLP or LCD or LED? I.e., no flatscreens can be fully and properly calibrated except for the Pioneer plasma?

That’s about the size of it unfortunately, most CRT’s are no good, very few if any have accurate primaries colors.

That’s about the size of it unfortunately, most CRT’s are no good, very few if any have accurate primaries colors.

So since only RPTVs can be properly and fully calibrated, what does that mean since they are quickly going the way of the dinosaurs, leaving flatscreens to dominate the TV world?

How important is color-point alignment?

I personally think the best BIG screen set for the price is the Sammy 67" LED DLP. I have seen it in the store and at home and it's fantastic. I can't believe waiting to pay $7000 for the Laser will bring me that much more satisfaction. But then again who am I to say.

I tend to agree about the Sammy LED.
I've seen them in stores and I'm quite impressed with the PQ for the $$$!
My question: Assuming the prices posted by LowellG (post 2020) are correct @ $6999.00, does anyone believe the PQ of the Laservue is going to be $5000
better??
VB

Does that mean that the only TVs that can be properly aligned, other than CRTs, are rear-projection TVs - whether DLP or LCD or LED? I.e., no flatscreens can be fully and properly calibrated except for the Pioneer plasma?

Nonsense. No one category of display technology has the ability to be calibrated properly. There are good and bad examples of every technology in this regard. You can properly calibrate any technology if it is designed properly. Nearly all have some trade-offs in some area, even the Pioneer PDPs, and they do vary by model.

I tend to agree about the Sammy LED.
I've seen them in stores and I'm quite impressed with the PQ for the $$$!
My question: Assuming the prices posted by LowellG (post 2020) are correct @ $6999.00, does anyone believe the PQ of the Laservue is going to be $5000
better??
VB


Better buy the Samsung soon. After the current models sell through they are dropping the DLP RPTV line. Same with the JVC RP DILA.

Better buy the Samsung soon. After the current models sell through they are dropping the DLP RPTV line. Same with the JVC RP DILA.

Source? :rolleyes:

Better buy the Samsung soon. After the current models sell through they are dropping the DLP RPTV line. Same with the JVC RP DILA.

Icaillo, as your signature says: "Just stating your opinion is OK. It is much more interesting, however, when that opinion has some facts backing it up."

You got some facts??!
VB

Better buy the Samsung soon. After the current models sell through they are dropping the DLP RPTV line. Same with the JVC RP DILA.

Don't know about Samsung (although the LED models are selling well so I don't know why they would do that). But as to JVC, they haven't made an RPTV in over a year as far as I know.

Don't know about Samsung (although the LED models are selling well so I don't know why they would do that). But as to JVC, they haven't made an RPTV in over a year as far as I know.

Didn't Sony also drop their RPTV line in favor of flatscreen LCD and Plasma only?

Don't know about Samsung (although the LED models are selling well so I don't know why they would do that). But as to JVC, they haven't made an RPTV in over a year as far as I know.

wasn't the sxrd selling for sony too? they even announced a new model then scrapped it, didm't they

samsung makes some good lcds. they don't seem as invested in rptv as mits is. seems to me mits is more likely to pursue laservue than samsung is to continue developing led dlps.

Didn't Sony also drop their RPTV line in favor of flatscreen LCD and Plasma only?

Yes, last year.

...wasn't the sxrd selling for sony too? ...

Yes but in a much more competitive (read, less profitable) environment. Right now Samsung's only competition for LED RPTVs is very expensive Sharps, Pioneers and pannys, since we're talking 60+ inches. Of course, there's the new large flat-panel LCDs promised from the new plants in 2010, so Samsung might be planning to sell RPTVs until then. But we'll see. Life is interesting.

Don't know about Samsung (although the LED models are selling well so I don't know why they would do that). But as to JVC, they haven't made an RPTV in over a year as far as I know.

The current models from both companies are still in production but will be the last. Samsung production will continue until December. JVC was less specific about when production would cease and it might have by now. They still have inventory to sell through, as I understand it. I spoke to tech reps from both companies last week about the matter.

How important is color-point alignment?

Accurate primary and secondary colors are important for color accuracy, but manufacturers probably correctly assume that most people don’t want accurate.
Over bright and over colorful images attract customers like moths to a flame, show people a row of TV’s in a showroom and most will consider the most colorful one the best. With that in mind manufacturers deliberately designed in exaggerated color, unfortunately in most cases it cannot be adjusted out.

Accurate primary and secondary colors are important for color accuracy, but manufacturers probably correctly assume that most people don’t want accurate.
Over bright and over colorful images attract customers like moths to a flame, show people a row of TV’s in a showroom and most will consider the most colorful one the best. With that in mind manufacturers deliberately designed in exaggerated color, unfortunately in most cases it cannot be adjusted out.

And this has something to do with . . .

"Mitsubishi's 65-inch Laser TV prototype Revealed! Overpriced?" Has a single one been ISF Calibrated with test results posted?

I guess someone should rename this thread "I'm so friggin bored we'll vomit up anything to discuss during the wait." Seeing how over 100 million panels world wide will be sold this year I guess we're all blind to your theory on color points. I see dozens of types of panels getting rave reviews by owners that aren't OCD and with their own allegiance while the OCD on this forum just Whine waiting for the next generation until they are in their GRAVE - Sorry but the moth to the flame concept is human nature and doesn't make it wrong unless one carries a Mensa attitude of "I know better than Consumer attitude." Screw the Color Points if the PQ WoW's You!;)

Someday we may actually click into this thread and have something to evaluate and speculate and of course many OCD Members are lying in wait to trash it at the same time if it threatens their allegiance, i.e.; KURO Serfs and the like.

Could we at least give the panel a honeymoon audition period to see if it measure up to Q006 and others regardless of price points.:cool:

Icaillo, as your signature says: "Just stating your opinion is OK. It is much more interesting, however, when that opinion has some facts backing it up."

You got some facts??!
VB

I am not sure what facts you want. I gave you what I know from tech reps at Samsung and JVC that I just spoke to at training sessions just a few days ago. If there is something specific you want to ask, please ask it. If I have specific facts, I will present them as I know them.

Accurate primary and secondary colors are important for color accuracy, but manufacturers probably correctly assume that most people don’t want accurate.
Over bright and over colorful images attract customers like moths to a flame, show people a row of TV’s in a showroom and most will consider the most colorful one the best. With that in mind manufacturers deliberately designed in exaggerated color, unfortunately in most cases it cannot be adjusted out.

This year LCDs and plasmas have both made strides in accuracy, I think you'd find it hard to fault a Panasonic 800u, or Samsung PNA550,650. Same goes for all of the new Samsung LCDs especially the 950 which has killer color accuracy. Laser better do something better than color because plasma AND LCD have it down pat.

Could we at least give the panel a honeymoon audition period to see if it measure up to Q006 and others regardless of price points.:cool:

The bride hasn't even shown up to the rehearsel dinner let alone on a honeymoon and some of the guests around here have become impatient. :D

I haven't even seen a formal invitation with a set date.

This year LCDs and plasmas have both made strides in accuracy, I think you'd find it hard to fault a Panasonic 800u, or Samsung PNA550,650. Same goes for all of the new Samsung LCDs especially the 950 which has killer color accuracy. Laser better do something better than color because plasma AND LCD have it down pat.

Is this based on a calibrated Samsung 950, or one straight out of the box and set for, e.g., Cinema and Warm?

This year LCDs and plasmas have both made strides in accuracy, I think you'd find it hard to fault a Panasonic 800u, or Samsung PNA550,650. Same goes for all of the new Samsung LCDs especially the 950 which has killer color accuracy. Laser better do something better than color because plasma AND LCD have it down pat.

Interesting as the latest generation Kuros have Violet instead of Black - and last I checked, thats not color accuracy.

Interesting as the latest generation Kuros have Violet instead of Black - and last I checked, thats not color accuracy.

Maybe you should check again after you have your prescription for new lenses filled.;) I don't see a trace of violet in the black of the Kuro models and I haven't read about others seeing this either.

Maybe you should check again after you have your prescription for new lenses filled.;) I don't see a trace of violet in the black of the Kuro models and I haven't read about others seeing this either.

Perhaps you should have your eyes checked.

Pioneer uses a filter on the screen to get deeper blacks which results in the low level blacks turning magenta in the 9th Generation Kuros.

Clearly, you do not know what a grey scale looks like if you cannot tell it. Have a ISF/THX calibrator with a SpectroRadioMeter that can do low level light shoot the color for you if you need more evidence. And you cannot get it correct calibration.

Or better yet, get a Panasonic Plasma and put it beside a 9th Generation Kuro. The Kuro will be darker....but magenta, not black while the Panasonic will be grey, not black.

Of course, as Owen and others have stated, sometimes things aren't supposed to be made to be correct - but to sell sets, as it is darker.

I'll take color accuracy over a little deeper blacks. Obviously, you have a different rank.

And this has something to do with . . .

"Mitsubishi's 65-inch Laser TV prototype Revealed! Overpriced?" Has a single one been ISF Calibrated with test results posted?



Considering that everyone at CEDIA that saw it (except the writer for Engadget) panned it - and considering who attends CEDIA, don't you think they would have gotten it to look the best they could?

When several of the better respected calibrators on AVS report what they saw, I know there is clearly something up with the set.


I guess someone should rename this thread "I'm so friggin bored we'll vomit up anything to discuss during the wait." Seeing how over 100 million panels world wide will be sold this year I guess we're all blind to your theory on color points. I see dozens of types of panels getting rave reviews by owners that aren't OCD and with their own allegiance while the OCD on this forum just Whine waiting for the next generation until they are in their GRAVE - Sorry but the moth to the flame concept is human nature and doesn't make it wrong unless one carries a Mensa attitude of "I know better than Consumer attitude." Screw the Color Points if the PQ WoW's You!;)

Someday we may actually click into this thread and have something to evaluate and speculate and of course many OCD Members are lying in wait to trash it at the same time if it threatens their allegiance, i.e.; KURO Serfs and the like.


As witnessed above.

^ Your last quote above should be attributed to westa6969 and not me.

Source? :rolleyes:

For What It Is Worth-After I had already purchased an lcd (the Sammmy 52A750) the salesman and I were discussing other sets and technologies.He related to me that Samsung was going to drop dlp after this year and he was fairly certain about this. He told me that he was informed that MITS may drop bulb based dlp's after this year or the next.

Considering that everyone at CEDIA that saw it (except the writer for Engadget) panned it - and considering who attends CEDIA, don't you think they would have gotten it to look the best they could?

When several of the better respected calibrators on AVS report what they saw, I know there is clearly something up with the set.

So you're saying that calibrators at CEDIA were not impressed with the Mitsubishi Laservue - i.e., all but the guy at Engadget found serious problems with the color accuracy and saturation?

Bulb based DLPs are already dead. No new models have been announced.

Bulb based DLPs are already dead. No new models have been announced.

Of course they haven't been announced, it hasn't been a year since the current ones were announced. But for your statement to be true, that would have to mean one of several things:

1) Mitsubishi will have only Laservue's next year, suddenly raising the cost of their entire RPTV line by a factor of 3-4.

2) Mitsubishi will have only Laservue's next year, and will have to DRASTICALLY reduce the cost of LaserVue within it's first year to maintain their current sales numbers.

3) Current generation bulb based Mitsubishi sets will continue on for a couple more years with NO changes.

4) They will exit the RPTV market.

Personally, I think it's more likely that the current bulb based sets will get a minor refresh next year, but who knows?

Ask any salesperson who works for Bestbuy or any other major store. They only sell bulb DLPs if the price is a real bargain. Let's face it: Plasma and LCD are much more "wife friendly", more sexy, some have great picture quality like the Kuro ,new Sony and Samsung LCDs, and getting much cheaper. 99% of new TV buyers don't care about new technology, they just buy what looks better turned on or off. Although the Laserview is signifivantly smaller than current DLPs, it's still no match for new plasmas and LCDs.
BTW, I have a 73927 Mitsubishi and will give the Laserview a chance before making my decision to replaced it by a new plasma but my feeling is that for the same price there will be no game.

Or better yet, get a Panasonic Plasma and put it beside a 9th Generation Kuro. The Kuro will be darker....but magenta, not black while the Panasonic will be grey, not black.


Have you seen a 9g in a dark environment? Blacks blend into the bezel with most content. Magenta blacks? Lol.

So you're saying that calibrators at CEDIA were not impressed with the Mitsubishi Laservue - i.e., all but the guy at Engadget found serious problems with the color accuracy and saturation?

That is exactly what i am saying.

Have you seen a 9g in a dark environment? Blacks blend into the bezel with most content. Magenta blacks? Lol.

ignorance is bliss - of course if you are using a Chroma 5 as seems to be the rage with avs'ers for the 9th Gen Kuro, you'd never know as it doesn't do color space correctly - only grey scale.

ignorance is bliss


Yes it is. You must be viewing with Best buys lights on them.

For What It Is Worth-After I had already purchased an lcd (the Sammmy 52A750) the salesman and I were discussing other sets and technologies.He related to me that Samsung was going to drop dlp after this year and he was fairly certain about this. He told me that he was informed that MITS may drop bulb based dlp's after this year or the next.

no offense to sales people, I am sure they do their best to portray an image of knowledge.
But the reality is they work on a sales floor. They dont know jack about the future and what manufacturers plan to do.

Thats not to say this particular rumor isnt correct.

However, if true...this is a huge hit for Texas Instruments.
I cannot imagine they could continue development and production of DLP chips if they lost Samsung.

It will be a shame if Samsung discontinues the LED DLPs.
They are far and away the best bang for the buck on the market, especially if you want a large screen TV.
I'm glad I bought mine now. There's no way I'd spend $5K more for a dubious increase in PQ. The Sammys look fantastic.

Being an 70xrb2 owner, I would prefer DLP or at least some RPTV technology to last, but as I look in stores and talk to people, I can see that DLP is dying a quick death.

I think Mitsubishi could help here by bringing in the LaserVue technology at a low price <$3K for the 65" and 4K for the 73". But according to most posts it's going to be a lot higher than that. Make no doubt at 7K it will fail quickly. DLP does not have a year or two more for the prices to drop to an acceptable level. RPTV needs more than the CPR of LaseVue, it's going to need the paddles of LaserVue combined with low prices, to even slow down the inevitable of death of RPTV.

Unfortunately, how good it is or isn't will not be the point, it is how much people desire flat screen technology. The rumors of Samsung and JVC ending their production of their RPTV's doesn't surprise me as I think those manufactures would prefer to just concentrate on their flat screens.

It's a shame Mitsubishi didn't come out with LaserVue sooner, as I think it would have been a good choice for those wanting larger sets, but at this point I think it's too little, for too much, way too late.

I think Mitsubishi is making a big mistake bringing the 65" instead of the 73". The 73 would have a much bigger appeal and the price would certainly be lower than the plasma /LCD competition. There are reports that the new Sony 70" LCD will be priced close to 20K and a 73" below 10K could be viewed as a bargain ,if the picture is indeed superior.

Perhaps you should have your eyes checked.

Pioneer uses a filter on the screen to get deeper blacks which results in the low level blacks turning magenta in the 9th Generation Kuros.

Clearly, you do not know what a grey scale looks like if you cannot tell it. Have a ISF/THX calibrator with a SpectroRadioMeter that can do low level light shoot the color for you if you need more evidence. And you cannot get it correct calibration.

Or better yet, get a Panasonic Plasma and put it beside a 9th Generation Kuro. The Kuro will be darker....but magenta, not black while the Panasonic will be grey, not black.

Of course, as Owen and others have stated, sometimes things aren't supposed to be made to be correct - but to sell sets, as it is darker.

I'll take color accuracy over a little deeper blacks. Obviously, you have a different rank.



Considering that everyone at CEDIA that saw it (except the writer for Engadget) panned it - and considering who attends CEDIA, don't you think they would have gotten it to look the best they could?

When several of the better respected calibrators on AVS report what they saw, I know there is clearly something up with the set.



As witnessed above.


Still at it, lol.

Yes it is. You must be viewing with Best buys lights on them.

No, total dark room.

I was on a Roller Coaster with the Simpsons at Universal Studios. Amazing what tricks can be played on the eyes by people who create illusions. Though the results may be pleasing, it doesn't make it correct or reality.

It's very comical to see people out on a limb using filter based meters that won't even do color space correctly as their point of reference.

Still at it, lol.

In this case, the truth is absolute and unchanging.

So riddle me this - why are the Red and Green Primary Color Points inaccurate? :rolleyes:

Originally posted by westa6969:
I see dozens of types of panels getting rave reviews by owners that aren't OCD and with their own allegiance

QFT

I really like coming to these forums, but sometimes I wonder if some of the people here actually enjoy the products they have. There seems to be constant analysis and quest for perfection that doesn't and may never exist. It must be difficult to watch/listen and enjoy while constantly looking/listening for what is missing instead of what is present.

ignorance is bliss - of course if you are using a Chroma 5 as seems to be the rage with avs'ers for the 9th Gen Kuro, you'd never know as it doesn't do color space correctly - only grey scale.

See post 1938 on this thread. The color points on the Kuro they calibrated are almost perfect. Perhaps Pioneer rigged it by sending them a ringer.

Interesting as the latest generation Kuros have Violet instead of Black - and last I checked, thats not color accuracy.
Excuse me? First of all I never used the word Kuro in my post, the elite Kuros if you want to get into it, are pretty much the most accurate display out there, bar none. Blacks are BLACK not Violet. You're obviously a troll or misinformed. This still doesn't change the fact that any of the LCDs or Plasmas I listed will be very accurate. Seems like someone needs to get his head out of his rear and throw out his bias for display technologies eh? If you think you know more about calibration than the people on this site why don't you go into the calibration forum and post a thread on the inaccuracies of an elite Kuro and see how you will be received.

Is this based on a calibrated Samsung 950, or one straight out of the box and set for, e.g., Cinema and Warm?

Straight out of the box they will trash 99.9% of displays out there.

So riddle me this - why are the Red and Green Primary Color Points inaccurate? :rolleyes:

Non elite Kuros are not the pinnacle of accuracy, if you want to talk about a Kuro how about talking about the elite, no problems with the color points there.

no offense to sales people, I am sure they do their best to portray an image of knowledge.
But the reality is they work on a sales floor. They dont know jack about the future and what manufacturers plan to do.

Thats not to say this particular rumor isnt correct.

However, if true...this is a huge hit for Texas Instruments.
I cannot imagine they could continue development and production of DLP chips if they lost Samsung.

If TI was so reliant on Samsung then they should not have given Mitsibishi exclusive use of the DC4 chip and only given Samsung use of the DC3 chip in the RP sets.

If TI was so reliant on Samsung then they should not have given Mitsibishi exclusive use of the DC4 chip and only given Samsung use of the DC3 chip in the RP sets.

I wondered why Samsung wasn't using the DC4 chip. Are you sure TI is keeping from Samsung because it's an exclusive to Mits? I would have thought they'd sell it to anybody that was willing to pay for it.

Straight out of the box they will trash 99.9% of displays out there.

Then if I'm willing to pay the higher electric bills for LCD, and don't want the Laservue, this may be the new TV for me - except I want something larger than 55", though I'll settle for 60" if I can't get 65" for a reasonable price differential. Maybe the next line of Samsungs.

Beachcomber....you can't be critical of a plasma you have obviously never owned and calibrated.
The bonded filter makes the blacks no less black or more magenta than my Sony 34xbr910. ;)
Only difference is the Kuro's keep their blacks with other images on the screen, unlike the xbr's whioxh raise.

... I can see that DLP is dying a quick death.....

For RPTV only. DLP and LCoS are both still alive and doing very well in front-projection, and there are no competitors on the immediate horizon. As a matter of fact, laser and/or LED lighting may greatly increase the attractiveness of this technology.

For RPTV only. DLP and LCoS are both still alive and doing very well in front-projection, and there are no competitors on the immediate horizon. As a matter of fact, laser and/or LED lighting may greatly increase the attractiveness of this technology.

Oh yeah, for RPTV only. I know that those technologies are doing well on the front projector front.

I've been lurking on this thread for months... here's a touch of info that I don't think has been shared yet.

I've been putting off a buy decision for at least a year - and had my hopes pinned to the LaserVue being the set I want. I went to my local "big box" electronics store in Phoenix this weekend, they of course knew nothing about it. I then went to my specialty AV retailer (who only sells Diamond line Mitsubishi DLPs -- hidden way in the back corner of the store behind all the LCDs and Plasmas). They said Mitsubishi has told the big box stores that they get an exclusive on the LaserVue for a certain (unspecified) period of time - the smaller/high end shops won't get them at the launch. The place I was at didn't seem to mind - the inference was "let them deal with the issues." It means I won't buy one at launch though because I wanted to buy it from a place with service I can trust (and a professional calibration service). I'm really sick of waiting. Hockey season starts soon. The fact that the channel strategy has been communicated to the retail stores gives me hope though.

Excuse me? First of all I never used the word Kuro in my post, the elite Kuros if you want to get into it, are pretty much the most accurate display out there, bar none. Blacks are BLACK not Violet. You're obviously a troll or misinformed. This still doesn't change the fact that any of the LCDs or Plasmas I listed will be very accurate. Seems like someone needs to get his head out of his rear and throw out his bias for display technologies eh? If you think you know more about calibration than the people on this site why don't you go into the calibration forum and post a thread on the inaccuracies of an elite Kuro and see how you will be received.

Actually I have spoken to many of them about it and its fairly common knowledge for those who have done their homework.

I suggest you actually find one that has the equipment that is not filter based with a SpectroRadioMeter that will measure down to about .3fL, and put a raster on the screen at about .5fL and see what color it measures as - hint.....it will come out as Magenta...not black/grey. Problem that you will find is probably 5-10 calibrators total will have the equipment that can measure below 1.0fL properly.

A simple comparison with an optical comparator (as simple as a $40 Munsell Grey Scale set) would also show you something is off as its not grey.

And unfortunately, if you try to get the grey correct, you screw up the primaries more and more, thus you have to decide which is more important to you.

And btw, why do you list a Pioneer KURO PDP-5020FD in your signature when they are known (even by your statements) to be very inaccurate in the color primaries? You go off defending the Kuros as the pinnacle of accuracy and you don't even have one that falls into that category....

Beachcomber....you can't be critical of a plasma you have obviously never owned and calibrated.
The bonded filter makes the blacks no less black or more magenta than my Sony 34xbr910. ;)
Only difference is the Kuro's keep their blacks with other images on the screen, unlike the xbr's whioxh raise.

Shows what you know. One only has too do a few searches and find up until several months ago once the issue became evident, I recommended the sets over others...but now its the Pioneer THX Plasma. No more 9th Gen Kuro recommendations from me. Wonder what changed:rolleyes:

I wondered why Samsung wasn't using the DC4 chip. Are you sure TI is keeping from Samsung because it's an exclusive to Mits? I would have thought they'd sell it to anybody that was willing to pay for it.

it seems unlikely that TI would make a level up product only available to 1 integrator.
Certainly they spent time and money to develop it.
Samsung market share of DLP is a world larger than Mits.

My guess is Samsung denied the new product due to a higher cost.

it seems unlikely that TI would make a level up product only available to 1 integrator.
... My guess is Samsung denied the new product due to a higher cost.

I agree. After all, they used Samsung sets to showcase DC4 at CES, so it doesn't seem likely that they turned around and made it a Mits exclusive.

http://www.phileweb.com/news/photo/200801/TI-DARKCHIP4-2_big.jpg

And btw, why do you list a Pioneer KURO PDP-5020FD in your signature when they are known (even by your statements) to be very inaccurate in the color primaries? You go off defending the Kuros as the pinnacle of accuracy and you don't even have one that falls into that category....


That's pretty low, no I don't have enough money for the more accurate Kuros but there are other elements that make the non elite displays desirable. Obviously your just trolling and Kuros don't have anything to do with the discussion anyways. I was talking about how some LCD/PDPs had reached much better color accuracy and you went off on a Kuro rant to try to get people up in a roar. There are people that post in the plasma forum and in the calibration forum that use much better equipment then you could ever afford and have come up with different conclusions than you. 1000 posts in less than 12 months? If they are all like this one I can see why you can write so many.

Actually I have spoken to many of them about it and its fairly common knowledge for those who have done their homework.

I suggest you actually find one that has the equipment that is not filter based with a SpectroRadioMeter that will measure down to about .3fL, and put a raster on the screen at about .5fL and see what color it measures as - hint.....it will come out as Magenta...not black/grey. Problem that you will find is probably 5-10 calibrators total will have the equipment that can measure below 1.0fL properly.

A simple comparison with an optical comparator (as simple as a $40 Munsell Grey Scale set) would also show you something is off as its not grey.

And unfortunately, if you try to get the grey correct, you screw up the primaries more and more, thus you have to decide which is more important to you.

And btw, why do you list a Pioneer KURO PDP-5020FD in your signature when they are known (even by your statements) to be very inaccurate in the color primaries? You go off defending the Kuros as the pinnacle of accuracy and you don't even have one that falls into that category....



Shows what you know. One only has too do a few searches and find up until several months ago once the issue became evident, I recommended the sets over others...but now its the Pioneer THX Plasma. No more 9th Gen Kuro recommendations from me. Wonder what changed:rolleyes:

How about Tom Hoffman and D-Nice? Among others they measured below .001ftL?
Are they lying?
I owned an 1150 Elite and it's blacks were inky black and not magenta....shows you still think you know without ever owning or calibrating one in home.
I can guarentee the Elite 111 and 151's have the lowest black level of any displays currently.(that stays black and doesn't rise like LCD's)
Yes, the non-elites this year are stripped down....yet the majority of people still think it provides a better image than anyother display currently out.

Check out the prices on the 61" ($1160.00 plus $199.00 shipping) and on the 67" ($1424.00 plus $199.00 shipping) from www.cameraaddict.com. Is this a signal that the terrific Samsung LED DLP's are closing out? Retail on the 67" set is $2499.00.

Has anyone ever looked inside to see what TI chip is being used? I read somewhere that the newer releases of the Pannys do have the DC4 chip.

I read somewhere that the newer releases of the Pannys do have the DC4 chip.

:confused:

I don't think Panasonic makes RPTVs any more.

But current Samsungs use DC3, and current Mitsubishis use DC4.

Sorry. I meant the Samsung LED DLP's. With no DC4 in the Samsungs, how about adding a neutral density filter to make the blacks and contrast even better?

Check out the prices on the 61" ($1160.00 plus $199.00 shipping) and on the 67" ($1424.00 plus $199.00 shipping) from www.cameraaddict.com. Is this a signal that the terrific Samsung LED DLP's are closing out? Retail on the 67" set is $2499.00.

No, cameraaddict.com is a bogus bait and switch online retailer. You can't seriously consider any of their offerings as legitimate. Go ahead, try to get this product at that price, I'll eat my words if you succeed. If you don't buy expensive accessories or an overpriced extended warranty the item will convenitently be "out of stock."

Getting back to the Laservue, it appears I will be able to see on on 10/3 as I mentioned in an earlier post. My spy tell me the price will be $7000. Mitsubishi is well aware that for that kind of money, plus the form factor issue, the picture will have to be something special. They think it is. I specifically asked my source about geometry issues on a RPTV only 10" deep. Once again, Mits is aware of that hurdle as well.

Talk is one thing, but I felt better because Mits is going into this knowing all the issues. Many of which we've been discussing here. They know that the only thing that will sell a RPTV priced at this level is a picture better than anything we've seen to date. While I'm pretty skeptical, I'm rooting they pull it off. I'll post my comments as soon as I see a live set.

Sorry. I meant the Samsung LED DLP's. With no DC4 in the Samsungs, how about adding a neutral density filter to make the blacks and contrast even better?
No, that won't increase contrast, it will just reduce the brighness across the board. The ratio from the darkest to brightest would still be the same. Besides, filters shouldn't be needed on LED sets (and presumably laser sets either, for that matter), as you can just put the LEDs on a lower setting if you want to make them dimmer. But that won't help contrast.

No, that won't increase contrast, it will just reduce the brighness across the board. The ratio from the darkest to brightest would still be the same. Besides, filters shouldn't be needed on LED sets (and presumably laser sets either, for that matter), as you can just put the LEDs on a lower setting if you want to make them dimmer. But that won't help contrast.

Agreed. Contrast is controlled in a DLP chip by how many times per second the mirrors are ON versus OFF.

Improved contrast is added in DC4 by adding a layer of black underneath the mirrors so that there is not any extra light reflecting from anything other than the mirrors.

Adding a filter of some sort doesnt seem to add any benefit.

Getting back to the Laservue, it appears I will be able to see on on 10/3 as I mentioned in an earlier post. My spy tell me the price will be $7000. Mitsubishi is well aware that for that kind of money, plus the form factor issue, the picture will have to be something special. They think it is. I specifically asked my source about geometry issues on a RPTV only 10" deep. Once again, Mits is aware of that hurdle as well.

Talk is one thing, but I felt better because Mits is going into this knowing all the issues. Many of which we've been discussing here. They know that the only thing that will sell a RPTV priced at this level is a picture better than anything we've seen to date. While I'm pretty skeptical, I'm rooting they pull it off. I'll post my comments as soon as I see a live set.

can you tell us where you will see the TV on the 3rd?
Can I go too?

can you tell us where you will see the TV on the 3rd?
Can I go too?

As soon as the preview is made public I'll pass along the information.

There's only one place in San Antonio it could be.

The testing of them has been going on in the Chicago area for UL ;)

T minus 7 days...

Well, if Mits claim of 3rd Q release is accurate, only a maximum of six days to go until we all finally see the new Laser View in all it's glory.

Finger's crossed, we are all going to be mega impressed :)

M.

Bjorn's, a local AV specialty store here in San Antonio, has released an electronic flyer stating they will be the first dealer to have the Laservue for public display on October 3-5. Mitsubishi is bringing the set in by "truck for the world premiere of Laservue TV and a demonstration of the latest 3D technology."

The rumor is they are bringing in two sets, one to leave at Bjorn's and the other will go with the truck for demo's at other dealers. Once again, this is just the rumor so I obviously don't know for sure if that is the plan or what the schedule may be. The story I'm still getting is supply will be very limited initially, but at $7000 a pop I can't imagine a long list of backorders!

So it sounds like rather than being available in 3rd quarter, there will be two available in the beginning of the 4th? They better be careful... don't want to flood the market and reduce margins.

So it sounds like rather than being available in 3rd quarter, there will be two available in the beginning of the 4th? They better be careful... don't want to flood the market and reduce margins.

lol

cant wait to hear what people have to say on it.

This thread has been good fun while we've been waiting but when some fortunate person actually gets to see one that's for sale can they start a new thread so we can zero in on this potentially significant new technology?

Originally posted by egrady:
Bjorn's, a local AV specialty store here in San Antonio, has released an electronic flyer stating they will be the first dealer to have the Laservue for public display on October 3-5. Mitsubishi is bringing the set in by "truck for the world premiere of Laservue TV and a demonstration of the latest 3D technology."

Thanks for the tip. I know where I will be on the 3rd. :)

This thread has been good fun while we've been waiting but when some fortunate person actually gets to see one that's for sale can they start a new thread so we can zero in on this potentially significant new technology?

I don't think a new thread should be started until someone actually owns one.

I don't think a new thread should be started until someone actually owns one.
Yeah, if another thread is started now, it will just be more of the same.

Maybe we can have a end to this never ending story.

Then it wouldn't be a never ending story.

Then we can do a sequel to the never ending story for the 73" Laservue as soon as the 65" comes out :rolleyes:

Or maybe one where we wait until the price is reasonable...or better yet, one waiting to compare a Laservue to an SED tv!!!!!!

Or maybe one where we wait until the price is reasonable...or better yet, one waiting to compare a Laservue to an SED tv!!!!!!

But I plan to retire in this life time!!!

Mind you, the way that the price for the Diamond 73 has gone back up recently, I wonder if lots of people reading this have given up the ghost and gone and bought one.

My bank raised my cc limit today. Maybe I should have bought one instead of having it put back to the original eyewatering level.....

Seggers

There is a Mits truck at a local retailer today, Sat. & Sun. They have advertised the 65" Medallion Series DLP for $1493. I doubt the laser is there but I am going by to check. Sure makes it difficult to cough up $7000 for a laser.

$7,000.00 for a TV set, anyone contemplating this is nuts (an opinion). You do realize that if this TV is for real, and I doubt it very seriously, it can't overcome the resolution of the broadcast signal, witch you can get reasonably with Plasma and even LCD.
Sharp has a 65" here now, and within a year there will definitely (probably) be a lot of them in this size range for a lot less than 7K able to probably give a great picture quality and experience.
I know very little relevant to the guys that argue about this or that relating to whether Mitsubishi will surpass everything else, but I would be willing to bet that they won't !
First off they and all manufactures have to worry and hold something back for the "next year session", you know, the things you will be arguing about then.
If Mitsubishi tries to come out with this "Laser Vision" technology in the price range everyone is contemplating it would be "financial suicide"!
Do you think that every major manufacture hasn't looked at "TI's laser stuff", and came to some decision?
If there was any doubt in there minds that this was the "IT FOREVER" don't you think they would be dumping stock and jumping into this technology?
Do you think you have better insight into The TV world then the lowest of these manufacturers?

The name of the whole game is supply and demand, if you keep providing the BS/DEMAND, they will feed you like a farmer fattening up chickens for dinner, or maybe ducks, or maybe sheep, or maybe whatever, get the point!

Changeling

Originally posted by Changeling:
The name of the whole game is supply and demand, if you keep providing the BS/DEMAND, they will feed you like a farmer fattening up chickens for dinner, or maybe ducks, or maybe sheep, or maybe whatever, get the point!

I am not sure I understood any of your post unless I am just feeding a troll.

The TV is for real, it was shown at CEDIA. Production volume will be low at first, hence the high retail price keeping demand low. Yes, there is competition at that price and that size, we all know that.

That's pretty low, no I don't have enough money for the more accurate Kuros but there are other elements that make the non elite displays desirable. Obviously your just trolling and Kuros don't have anything to do with the discussion anyways. I was talking about how some LCD/PDPs had reached much better color accuracy and you went off on a Kuro rant to try to get people up in a roar. There are people that post in the plasma forum and in the calibration forum that use much better equipment then you could ever afford and have come up with different conclusions than you. 1000 posts in less than 12 months? If they are all like this one I can see why you can write so many.


Interesting - especially since you have no idea what type of equipment I have, but I assure you its just as accurate or on par with all but about 10 ISF calibrators. I've yet to see one of those not see the issue.

Again, invest in a $40 Munsell Grey Scale and retrain your eyes what Grey really looks like.

How about Tom Hoffman and D-Nice? Among others they measured below .001ftL?
Are they lying?
I owned an 1150 Elite and it's blacks were inky black and not magenta....shows you still think you know without ever owning or calibrating one in home.
I can guarentee the Elite 111 and 151's have the lowest black level of any displays currently.(that stays black and doesn't rise like LCD's)
Yes, the non-elites this year are stripped down....yet the majority of people still think it provides a better image than anyother display currently out.

No, neither one has accurate repeatable equipment for reading below 1.0fL. To use your words, if they claim that, yes, they are lying.

An i1 pro isn't even close.

The only 3 units that will do that properly are a PR-670, a Minolta CS-2000 or a Progressive Labs Microspec. Only those will get you down to the 0.25fL area.

Furthermore, it is very possible that the PR-6xx Series, Minolta CS-2000 or Progressive Labs unit might be the only units that can accurately measure the LaserVue (and LED sets) as the spectrum is different and the other units are not built to support that difference.

Just speculating here, but perhaps if it takes such delicate equipment to measure the shade of black in these sets, then no one could tell it apart from magenta or whatever with the naked eye?

Just sayin...

Just speculating here, but perhaps if it takes such delicate equipment to measure the shade of black in these sets, then no one could tell it apart from magenta or whatever with the naked eye?

Just sayin...

Good speculation, but fact is its easy to play tricks with the eyes, which is why I made the point about the Universal Simpson's Ride earlier. Thats why every ISF Calibrator should have some type of reference standard to compare against, whether a Munsell Grey Scale, Sony B&W Broadcast Monitor or some other known reference.

Again, if you calibrate (as best you can) a Pioneer Kuro and a Panasonic THX Plasma, then put them side by side and fed the same 0 Raster, the Panasonic will be brighter, but Grey. The Pioneer will be darker (due to the electronics and filter) but a shade of Magenta, not black. As noted, it can be proven with a meter that will do color space and can measure something that dark (quite frankly, nothing will really be able to measure the colorspace of 0 Raster, thus you need to get it upwards of around 0.5fL though). The Meters such as a Chroma 5 (D-Nice's reference for Kuros) won't even give you correct Primary and Secondary Color Points, nor will any meter of that technology. All a proper meter does is confirm what your eyes can see if you have a proper reference beside it.

Give this new tech it's due for the R&D to be paid for during the first 6 months just as all new Tech goes through. Keep in mind that there is even now that top 5% that live and breath the Rich get Richer in this country even while wall street Bass Turds that go under leave with millions (i.e.; Lehman bankruptcy where they held back around 2 billion for bonuses for the exec's). There are plenty with pockets for a $7K panel that's ltd production.

This could be the swan song for RPTV or last gasp - CES 2009 should be telling to see if TI keeps demoing advanced chips that are so damn delayed at making it to reality that RPTV dies during the wait. If Samsung has no DC4 or better at CES this year I'd say RPTV is biding it's time until 2010/11 when multiple new LCD Plants debut that will be building large panels at much lower prices.

Sharp, Samsung, Panasonic all will have new much larger substrates for bigger economic cuts and ultra thin lightweight form factors. Sharp is already there as the SE94 65" can easily be had for under $5K and the budget series D64 around $3K. Personally I'd say the Laservue needs to be at $5K considering that is where the Sharp LCD 65" and the Panasonic 65" Samsung 63" plasma resides.

Laservue will bait the early adopters that simply have to have the latest and greatest toy on the block and they will pay the R&D during the initial 6 months. Mits is hardly a corporation that's financially hurting and a measly TV is not going to hurt it's bottom line unless the tech fails and then there's the old corporate write-off's they can evolve and transition just as Sony did with SXRD.:)

Samsung and JVC have already decided that this year will be the last of RPTV. Mitsubishi marketing has not demonstrated an understanding of how to sell to the high end at all over the past few years, and I suspect that this product will be no different.

There is a Mits truck at a local retailer today, Sat. & Sun. They have advertised the 65" Medallion Series DLP for $1493. I doubt the laser is there but I am going by to check. Sure makes it difficult to cough up $7000 for a laser.

Well I made it.

They didn't have a laser but verified one would be in San Antone on Oct 3.

They said the laser would, should hit retailers in late Nov.

They also said they had the laser sitting with the Kuro and the 65" Sharp LCD at a retailer show (?? CEDIA) and the Mits laser blew them away (what else would he say ??). He also indicated that when the new models come out in 2009 there might be a 82".

All this was from Mits people and not the retailer.

he also indicated that when the new models come out in 2009 there might be a 82".

$40k? :D

He also indicated that when the new models come out in 2009 there might be a 82".

.

Mitsubishi had a monster 80" RPTV about 15 years ago.

He also indicated that when the new models come out in 2009 there might be a 82".

82 would make a nice upgrade from the 73, assuming that I didn't need to sell several organs in order to get one.... :p

Seggers

They had a 82" DLP out in 04/05 it was 82825 three chip DLP

Actually, it was an LCOS unit, not DLP.

Actually, it was an LCOS unit, not DLP.

That's true. I forgot about the LCOS (I guess it was called Alpha). I was thinking about a monster 4X3 80" that was available in the early 90's. Picture was terrible, anyway.

There was the VS-8987 in 1996 and the VS 80803 a couple of years later.

T minus 3 days...

To my mind, it all boils down to Mits launching an aggressive and high profile marketing campaign, and getting the Laser View product independently reviewed by lots of tech websites, TV programmes, and HT magazines, and firmly planting the idea of Laser View being a viable & desirable option in consumers minds.

After the initial, limited supply, Diamond dealer only release of the 3D ready 65" at or around the rumoured $7 K 'ish price tag, the price will/should quickly drop to around a consumer friendly $3.5 - $4.5 K in the Big Box stores...

... and the rumoured 82" 3D ready Laser TV with (if the hype is to believed) the best PQ on the market were to be made available, after another limited supply & higher price initial release, maybe the price would drop to say $7 - $9.5 K.

Over time standard non Diamond sets will surely be made available, and then these prices should drop even further.

Relatively speaking, this new tech is slim, and looking at LCD & plasma similarly sized 60" ish sized sets as a comparison, the depth 'issue' is now only an issue if wall mounting is required.

And don't forget Laser View has a rare feature - it is 3D ready - which is a major feature when you consider that 7 movie's by major Hollywood studio's are currently being made with the 3D viewing option. This number is sure to increase if domestic 3D viewing capable TV's become more available.

I don't want to witness the death of the value for money RPTV, I really am hoping that Mits can reinvigorate the segment and encourage other manufacturers to compete in this sector, and thus drive down prices and improve the tech even more... I am sooo looking forward to reading the reviews.

M.

Good speculation, but fact is its easy to play tricks with the eyes, which is why I made the point about the Universal Simpson's Ride earlier. Thats why every ISF Calibrator should have some type of reference standard to compare against, whether a Munsell Grey Scale, Sony B&W Broadcast Monitor or some other known reference.

Again, if you calibrate (as best you can) a Pioneer Kuro and a Panasonic THX Plasma, then put them side by side and fed the same 0 Raster, the Panasonic will be brighter, but Grey. The Pioneer will be darker (due to the electronics and filter) but a shade of Magenta, not black. As noted, it can be proven with a meter that will do color space and can measure something that dark (quite frankly, nothing will really be able to measure the colorspace of 0 Raster, thus you need to get it upwards of around 0.5fL though). The Meters such as a Chroma 5 (D-Nice's reference for Kuros) won't even give you correct Primary and Secondary Color Points, nor will any meter of that technology. All a proper meter does is confirm what your eyes can see if you have a proper reference beside it.

I've read a number of ISF calibration reports, both on the form and in media - none mention the magenta issue you describe. Perhaps it is ignored as not making a difference toi what people actually see, though I suspect some at least would have so commented.

Talked with the folks at Paul's TV in La Habra today. They're a very big Mitsubishi dealer in greater Los Angeles. I asked when they'd be getting their LaserVue's in and they said that they'd know more on Tuesday as a bunch of them were going for LaserVue training with Mitsubishi. I teased him about not signing the NDA. He said that they're just as in the dark as we are due to Mitsubishi's secrecy, so they're all looking forward to Tuesday.

I've read a number of ISF calibration reports, both on the form and in media - none mention the magenta issue you describe. Perhaps it is ignored as not making a difference toi what people actually see, though I suspect some at least would have so commented.

Not to lend credance to his grossly overblown point, Gary Merson, the HD Guru, has mentioned it. Beachcomber is the only person who feels this issue renders the Elite 151 a boat anchor. While he's on an island by himself, it's his island.

I've read a number of ISF calibration reports, both on the form and in media - none mention the magenta issue you describe. Perhaps it is ignored as not making a difference toi what people actually see, though I suspect some at least would have so commented.

When walking into Tweeter i notice a purplish tint to the glass on first gen kuro plasmas. I havent seen the second gen one yet. And i havent seen a pioneer kuro in controlled lighting, so i dont know if its still visible under proper lighting.

Well, since Wall Street and everyone's pocketbook is going the way of the Titanic this week if Washington doesn't fix everything, according to all the chicken littles on the news, the prospect of buying a $7K TV doesn't look too good, unless you have the cash, because no credit card is going to be good after Tuesday, and no store will let you put in on payments, 'cause they won't have any credit money, either. Heck, Mits might not even have money to deliver them to the stores after this week. We're doomed. And we were so close to seeing this TV. Oh, well, maybe in 10 years after we recover from the great depression. :)

Does anyone know enough technology to know if the laser light is being focused onto the eye and retina. Laser light is coherent and maintains its energy even when reflected off a surface or a mirror.

Lasers (and LEDs for that matter) give out light that can injure the eye. I originally called Mits. but no one seemed to know.

Thanks

"It'll put your eye out"

Yeah, for some reason, I keep thinking one of these is going to have a hole or something, and a laser will shoot out and blind you/burn a limb off (lightsabers!!!!!!!) ^_^...or it's just going to blow up >_>....

Does anyone know enough technology to know if the laser light is being focused onto the eye and retina. Laser light is coherent and maintains its energy even when reflected off a surface or a mirror...

It loses its coherence after it hits all those mirrors on the dlp chip. By design, the TV spreads the light all over the inside of the screen, and from there out all over the room.

It loses its coherence after it hits all those mirrors on the dlp chip. By design, the TV spreads the light all over the inside of the screen, and from there out all over the room.

Dang! I was figuring that for $7000 I could get both a great TV and Lasik Surgery. Figuring $3000 per eye, I think, that means the TV's actual cost is only $1000. :D

When walking into Tweeter i notice a purplish tint to the glass on first gen kuro plasmas. I havent seen the second gen one yet. And i havent seen a pioneer kuro in controlled lighting, so i dont know if its still visible under proper lighting.

Different thing. This is 9th Gen we are talking about because of a blue film that Pioneer puts on the screen to allow for darker images.

Not to lend credance to his grossly overblown point, Gary Merson, the HD Guru, has mentioned it. Beachcomber is the only person who feels this issue renders the Elite 151 a boat anchor. While he's on an island by himself, it's his island.

Where did I ever say Boat Anchor? I've only pointed out that truth that the Cult Followers refuse to believe and as others that aren't scared of the truth know.

If an ISF tech who recommended the set wants to keep quiet as to not upset his client base, I have no problem with that. However, I know what is discussed in private and by those who are in the know.

Choose your poision. As for me, I'll take the Panasonic THX Plasma. No, its not as dark, but grey is grey, not violet. As noted, up until several months ago I have posts telling people to go with the Kuro. Information changes and thus so do recommendations.

For those who believe its the pinaccle of color accuracy are on an island of fools.

This is not the Pioneer Kuro thread or even sub-forum! Can we get back to speculating on laser-vue please?

I hope that the laservue has no viewable screen texture. If it does than i dont think ill be considering it anymore. I feel that screen texture takes away fromthe clearity of the picture on bright scenes.


Is anyone else bothered by screen texture?

This is not the Pioneer Kuro thread or even sub-forum! Can we get back to speculating on laser-vue please?

Exactly. I was playing PS3 on my Laservue last night and the screen flickered for a second, then the lasers started shooting from it. I was hiding behind the couch trying to finish my UT3 game while my funiture was taking hits left and right.

I think my geometry is off, and the contrast I can't get corrected as the blacks are showing black and not blacker than black because when it's suppose to be black, I want black. What was Mits thinking? :rolleyes:


now we are back on track with this thread.... ;)

oh, and I found it on-line for $2,799.

The November Home Theater Magazine has a full page Laservue add stating:

"The Laser Era Begins"

It also says 65" and above.

The add also shows a 3D image (nude female) emanating from the screen.

Wonder what that means???

The add also shows a 3D image (nude female) emanating from the screen.

Wonder what that means???

It means nude female all around your place if you BUY this TV

It means fun times are hear lol

Free nude female with every laservue!! I knew there was a legit reason it would cost 7k...hell I'm in for 2! :p

I don't recall seeing this post on here, so, sorry if it is a repeat. But, if you go to http://www.laservuetv.com/home.php and register your e-mail for LaserVue announcements, you will get an e-mail link to 5 pretty cool wallpapers. I guess it's something to do while we wait for this thing to be released?

The add also shows a 3D image (nude female) emanating from the screen.

Wonder what that means???

that's pure marketing. in real life, it'll be the scary chick from the ring coming out of your laservue.

Free nude female with every laservue!! I knew there was a legit reason it would cost 7k...hell I'm in for 2! :p

I'm in, I just got a letter from Discover Card today saying they've raised my credit limit. Do you think I can just get the girl without the TV?

The November Home Theater Magazine has a full page Laservue add stating:

"The Laser Era Begins"

It also says 65" and above.

The add also shows a 3D image (nude female) emanating from the screen.

Wonder what that means???

I was hoping we could get some fun out of this while waiting on the Oct 3 showing in San Antone. Heck, it's only a 450 mile ride for me, maybe I'll go.
Maybe the nude gal will be there.

the mitsubishi website has the user guide for the 65" lazer tv in pdf format. At least it gives a little insight on the future for this tv:D

Looked up the Owners guide. Good to see this released. Maybe we will see the TV soon.

I'm also thinking about the Diamond 835, but am wondering about the longevity of the color wheel. Also, does anyone know if the newer DLPs are better than the old with regard to the rainbow effect, particularly the newest Mits DLP?

There was an earlier post responding to my concern about laser eye damage. I'm not sure I buy the notion of light scattering inside the set. I would imagine that the light (after being modulated by the moving mirrors) is focused precisely onto the screen.

the mitsubishi website has the user guide for the 65" lazer tv in pdf format. At least it gives a little insight on the future for this tv:D

Here's the link to the user guide: Guide (http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/LaserVue_OG.pdf)

And the Spec Sheet: Specs (http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/pdf/L65A90_specsheet.pdf)

Dan
http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/img/hero/prod_fam/A90.png

136 lbs., that's pretty heavy!

Looking at the guide I can see there are 2 power-on modes: The fast mode seems to allow something like an auto-channel-scan that updates the channel list. That's what I think my 73927 also does and it's the cause of so many system resets when the TV doesn't power on. I explain: Mitsubishi seems to use some sort of active tuner that actually acts up and adds new channels even if we don't want them. Even worse, when it detects a bogus digital channel it locks everything and only a system reset will power it on again. This is not a hardware failure, it's a software design. I had my set replaced twice and 3 yeras later I still do a system reset once a week.

If the laser uses the same bogus tuner, I'm out.

I'm also disappointed that the laserview has the same 2 options for color temperature. Low is too low and high is too high. Most sets have 3 to five settings.

The matching stand leaves a lot to be desired. Looks like only room for 2 pieces of equipment.

I've been lurking on this thread for months... here's a touch of info that I don't think has been shared yet.

I've been putting off a buy decision for at least a year - and had my hopes pinned to the LaserVue being the set I want. I went to my local "big box" electronics store in Phoenix this weekend, they of course knew nothing about it. I then went to my specialty AV retailer (who only sells Diamond line Mitsubishi DLPs -- hidden way in the back corner of the store behind all the LCDs and Plasmas). They said Mitsubishi has told the big box stores that they get an exclusive on the LaserVue for a certain (unspecified) period of time - the smaller/high end shops won't get them at the launch. The place I was at didn't seem to mind - the inference was "let them deal with the issues." It means I won't buy one at launch though because I wanted to buy it from a place with service I can trust (and a professional calibration service). I'm really sick of waiting. Hockey season starts soon. The fact that the channel strategy has been communicated to the retail stores gives me hope though.I was at CEDIA and talked extensively with Mitsubishi officials and it's just exactly opposite what you describe: big box stores will NOT be the first to get units. Rather, they will go to high-end specialty retailers who are long-time Mitsubishi dealers. I took some photos of the units they had on display at the show, which I've been meaning to post. I will try and do so this weekend. Can anyone suggest a good site to host the photos? Picture quality of the units is fantastic, and the wall mount is quite innovative.

Thats one UGLY stand !!!

While I'm still excited about seeing the Laservue this Friday, the warranty is disappointing. The lowlights are:

1. Excluding the screen and software, the parts warranty is one year.
2. MDEA "does not warrant that the Embedded Software is error-free."
3. The screen is subject to a 30 day warranty.
4. "For certain items that are designed to be replaced by the consumer, including (but not limited to) some embedded software, the consumer is solely responsible for any replacement labor."
5. The warranty does not cover up to .01% pixel outages.
6. It only applies to "the original purchaser".

As I said in a earlier post, if Mits was really confident this technology was reliable enough to be ready for prime time they'd need to back it up with a solid warranty. They didn't. Regardless of how good this set is I just can't see it getting off the ground. New technology always has issues and $7000 is way to much to be a beta tester for Mits with a warranty this flimsy. The "latest and greatest" crowd may pick off a few, but my thought is even their numbers will be watered down considerably since this is not a flat panel.

Mits is obviously looking to maximize margin by limiting supply and keeping the price high. I wish them luck. I'll sit on the sideline until we have idea about it's reliability. Couple $7000 with unproven technology, I'd want at least a five year warranty. By the end of next year the lazervue will be much less expensive OR have disappeared from the market. There are simply not enough people with big bucks that will look past the form factor and buy strictly on performance. If Mits cannot create the margin they're looking for except under terms like this, I'm at a loss to understand what they're up to.

It will be interesting to see if this can do proper 5:5 pulldown for 24 fps material. I can't help but suspect that it will have the same (in)capabilities in this respect as the other Mits DLP sets.

While I'm still excited about seeing the Laservue this Friday, the warranty is disappointing. The lowlights are:

1. Excluding the screen and software, the parts warranty is one year.
2. MDEA "does not warrant that the Embedded Software is error-free."
3. The screen is subject to a 30 day warranty.
4. "For certain items that are designed to be replaced by the consumer, including (but not limited to) some embedded software, the consumer is solely responsible for any replacement labor."
5. The warranty does not cover up to .01% pixel outages.
6. It only applies to "the original purchaser".

As I said in a earlier post, if Mits was really confident this technology was reliable enough to be ready for prime time they'd need to back it up with a solid warranty. They didn't. Regardless of how good this set is I just can't see it getting off the ground. New technology always has issues and $7000 is way to much to be a beta tester for Mits with a warranty this flimsy. The "latest and greatest" crowd may pick off a few, but my thought is even their numbers will be watered down considerably since this is not a flat panel.

Mits is obviously looking to maximize margin by limiting supply and keeping the price high. I wish them luck. I'll sit on the sideline until we have idea about it's reliability. Couple $7000 with unproven technology, I'd want at least a five year warranty. By the end of next year the lazervue will be much less expensive OR have disappeared from the market. There are simply not enough people with big bucks that will look past the form factor and buy strictly on performance. If Mits cannot create the margin they're looking for except under terms like this, I'm at a loss to understand what they're up to.



yea , whats the deal with the bolts we need to take out while shipping. Why cant we leave them in there? what are they there for.

I was at CEDIA and talked extensively with Mitsubishi officials and it's just exactly opposite what you describe: big box stores will NOT be the first to get units. Rather, they will go to high-end specialty retailers who are long-time Mitsubishi dealers. I took some photos of the units they had on display at the show, which I've been meaning to post. I will try and do so this weekend. Can anyone suggest a good site to host the photos? Picture quality of the units is fantastic, and the wall mount is quite innovative.

You don't need find a host for your pics. You can directly attach them to your post. See the Additional Options section under the message editor. After you upload the pics you will find links to them in the Attached Files box under the editor. If you click on the link(s) this will open a new window that displays the attached file. Now for the trick. Copy the link address from this window. Go back to the message editor. Click on the Insert Image icon and paste that url link into the dialog box. Click OK. Now click on the Preview Post button and you will see the picture is now visible in your message. For anyone that may have a problem viewing the file in the post there will also be a separate link to the file at the bottom of the message. See the example below.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/attachment.php?attachmentid=121086&d=1222885637

Dan

It appears that things are progressing on schedule, despite almost desperate efforts to the contrary by many on this thread. Cheers.

It appears that things are progressing on schedule, despite almost desperate efforts to the contrary by many on this thread. Cheers.

I can agree with "progressing" but certainly not on schedule. The lauching of the 65" instead of the 73" is a big mistake, IMO.

While I'm still excited about seeing the Laservue this Friday,

Just got my Email announcing this event.

http://www.bjorns.com/emails/laservue_email.jpg

Hmmm, I think they're pushing it calling it a "flat screen" TV. Sure, the screen is flat, but to most people "flat" means thin when it comes to TVs. Not that it matters to ME, as I don't need to mount on a wall. Personally, I'd prefer they make it deeper. I think the reduced cabinet depth of today's RPTVs is causing issues with geometry and chromatic aberration.

will anyone be attending Bjorns? Im from CT and cant make it. It would be nice if someone put some videos on youtube.

Did you get that email from signing up on the laservue website...I haven't gotten a single email from them after signing up with both of my email accounts months ago.

I really have my fingers crossed that this set will be amazing and the 73" will tide me over for years until OLED becomes mainstream. I am not getting my hopes up too high though. Good luck to everyone attending the event, let us know how it goes in detail with pics/vids!

will anyone be attending Bjorns? Im from CT and cant make it. It would be nice if someone put some videos on youtube.

In case you didn't see this quote 2 posts above yours, I'll post it again:

While I'm still excited about seeing the Laservue this Friday,

Did you get that email from signing up on the laservue website...

No, I'm on Bjorns Email list and get announcements for all the special events/promotions/specials.

....................

I'm also disappointed that the laserview has the same 2 options for color temperature. Low is too low and high is too high. Most sets have 3 to five settings.

If you read the Manual thoroughly, you will see on page 42 that the LOW Color Temperature is set to 6500 degrees Kelvin. That's precisely the color temp of choice for Videophiles and Calibration professionals. It's also what I use for editing photographs in LightRoom and CS3 on my PC Monitor. Brilliant. The HIGH setting is for applications in brightly lighted rooms with perhaps large sunny windows. Again brilliant. Now the last thing a prudent manufacturer should do is to place a large number of Color temperatures in the hands of consumers, particularly since most have no idea what color temperature is. I can just see thousands of posts entitled, " My Colors are Off". No, this is very smart-- you are in Pro mode or torch mode, you choose. BTW, just what is Black Body Radiation?

If you read the Manual thoroughly, you will see on page 42 that the LOW Color Temperature is set to 6500 degrees Kelvin. That's precisely the color temp of choice for Videophiles and Calibration professionals. It's also what I use for editing photographs in LightRoom and CS3 on my PC Monitor. Brilliant. The HIGH setting is for applications in brightly lighted rooms with perhaps large sunny windows. Again brilliant. Now the last thing a prudent manufacturer should do is to place a large number of Color temperatures in the hands of consumers, particularly since most have no idea what color temperature is. I can just see thousands of posts entitled, " My Colors are Off". No, this is very smart-- you are in Pro mode or torch mode, you choose. BTW, just what is Black Body Radiation?

The Low color temp almost always comes in well below 6500K (Read 6500 Kelvin, not degrees Kelvin). He was correct in saying that Low is too low. Also, to be precise, we calibrate to the D65 specification for the colorimetry of white. Color temps are ambiguous measures. Rarely do any of the settings come out of the box at D65 on any consumer set.

The Low color temp almost always comes in well below 6500K (Read 6500 Kelvin, not degrees Kelvin). He was correct in saying that Low is too low. Also, to be precise, we calibrate to the D65 specification for the colorimetry of white. Color temps are ambiguous measures. Rarely do any of the settings come out of the box at D65 on any consumer set.

Thanks. My comment was based on my experience with the 73927 where LOW is too warm and HIGH is too bluish. I know that other Mitsubishi DLP models have the same problem. Probably can be adjusted in the service menu, though.

I would have to agree on my 73736... low is too warm, and high is too cool. But the color in the Laservue is derived a completely different way from their previous DLPs, so who knows if that tradition will continue?

Originally Posted by egrady
While I'm still excited about seeing the Laservue this Friday,

I will be there too.

I was at CEDIA ... Picture quality of the units is fantastic, and the wall mount is quite innovative.

For those keeping track, the first person that was at CEDIA to actually post in the thread saying the picture looked good. Makes one wonder, especially as the only person to say they look good at CEDIA on this thread is dealer :rolleyes:

Clearly, the unit at CEDIA was NOT calibrated (or attempted and failed) and one has to wonder why in that setting they would do that (so much for D65 and color accuracy out of the box.

I'm also thinking about the Diamond 835, but am wondering about the longevity of the color wheel. Also, does anyone know if the newer DLPs are better than the old with regard to the rainbow effect, particularly the newest Mits DLP?

There was an earlier post responding to my concern about laser eye damage. I'm not sure I buy the notion of light scattering inside the set. I would imagine that the light (after being modulated by the moving mirrors) is focused precisely onto the screen.

If you make copies on todays copiers, they all use lasers and something known as a polygon mirror motor at unbelieveable rpms and no harm has come to anyone, you'll be fine. Sure all the laser action takes place inside the tv.

6500 Kelvin means degrees Kelvin, comes from Planck's Blackbody Radiation theory. There is no "out of the box" yet to comment on, since no units have been sold. Meanwhile, those proactive ones among us, would prefer to accept the mfgr's specs rather than speculation by naysayers

While I'm still excited about seeing the Laservue this Friday, the warranty is disappointing. The lowlights are:

1. Excluding the screen and software, the parts warranty is one year.
2. MDEA "does not warrant that the Embedded Software is error-free."
3. The screen is subject to a 30 day warranty.
4. "For certain items that are designed to be replaced by the consumer, including (but not limited to) some embedded software, the consumer is solely responsible for any replacement labor."
5. The warranty does not cover up to .01% pixel outages.
6. It only applies to "the original purchaser".

As I said in a earlier post, if Mits was really confident this technology was reliable enough to be ready for prime time they'd need to back it up with a solid warranty. They didn't. Regardless of how good this set is I just can't see it getting off the ground. New technology always has issues and $7000 is way to much to be a beta tester for Mits with a warranty this flimsy. The "latest and greatest" crowd may pick off a few, but my thought is even their numbers will be watered down considerably since this is not a flat panel.

Mits is obviously looking to maximize margin by limiting supply and keeping the price high. I wish them luck. I'll sit on the sideline until we have idea about it's reliability. Couple $7000 with unproven technology, I'd want at least a five year warranty. By the end of next year the lazervue will be much less expensive OR have disappeared from the market. There are simply not enough people with big bucks that will look past the form factor and buy strictly on performance. If Mits cannot create the margin they're looking for except under terms like this, I'm at a loss to understand what they're up to.

That is the standard Mitts warranty, its the same one I have now for the 60.

will anyone be attending Bjorns? Im from CT and cant make it. It would be nice if someone put some videos on youtube.

I will be stopping by on Friday, but not sure if they will allow us to video the event, If I can I will.

I saw the LaserVue at CEATEC on Tuesday, and I was very underwhelmed.

(Photo taken in line waiting to see the demo (http://flickr.com/photos/peteer01/2905447405/in/set-72157607647748766/))

They wouldn't allow any photography in there, but I doubt photos of the picture would have been meaningful regardless. They showed blue skies and water, a red temple and green fields to show off the colors, but every time there was a large area of the same color, it looked like it was flickering to me. Very inconsistent...although I'm not sure that's the best way to describe it.

They also had a 3D portion as part of the demo, and that was pretty horrible. Not sure if it was the brightness, refresh rate or material they used, but it gave me a headache and didn't look good. The 3D demos they have in major electronics stores here as well as the 3D Panasonic demo they had did not give me the issues this did.

Anyway, just thought I'd chime in, in case anyone is interested in recent first hand reviews. Bright colors...but they had us in a pitch black room with specific seating looking directly at the screen...and I don't think the colors were accurate, but it was the flickering, pulsating effect that really turned me off.

Originally Posted by baddgsx
will anyone be attending Bjorns? Im from CT and cant make it. It would be nice if someone put some videos on youtube.

I will try and remember my camera.

One of the things I am concerned about is how they display it. If they don't have it side-by-side with a 65835 or a Kuro, both calibrated and both running the same material, it won't impress me. You can take any calibrated high end TV, put it in a room by itself and run great material through it and people will oooh and aaah.

6500 Kelvin means degrees Kelvin, comes from Planck's Blackbody Radiation theory. There is no "out of the box" yet to comment on, since no units have been sold. Meanwhile, those proactive ones among us, would prefer to accept the mfgr's specs rather than speculation by naysayers

The manufacturer's specs do not represent reality in many cases. Virtually every low CT setting on a Mits product has been about 500K too low over the dozens that I have tested and calibrated. Whether they continue this proactice is yet to be seen.

Degrees Kelvin is simply redundant. The unit is the Kelvin.

I will try and remember my camera.

One of the things I am concerned about is how they display it. If they don't have it side-by-side with a 65835 or a Kuro, both calibrated and both running the same material, it won't impress me. You can take any calibrated high end TV, put it in a room by itself and run great material through it and people will oooh and aaah.

Agreed.

Lets hope it's not a strictly controlled and staged demo. I'd like to turn off all the room lighting and play the begining of the last Pirates movie on BD. Most HD sets look very good displaying outdoor scenes bathed in bright sunlight. A very dark scene with subtle shadow detail is what I need to see. I've used the opening of the Pirates BD and neither the 835 nor the Samsung 750 were even close to the Elite 151.

Even if the reps control the event they'll only be there through the week end. The set will still be there after that which will give us the opportunity to examine it as we see fit.

6500 Kelvin means degrees Kelvin, comes from Planck's Blackbody Radiation theory. There is no "out of the box" yet to comment on, since no units have been sold. Meanwhile, those proactive ones among us, would prefer to accept the mfgr's specs rather than speculation by naysayers

the low temp setting on my 2002 65411 is also labeled 6500K. It's not. For consumer products, unless the mgfr specifically claims D65 as a feature, it won't be. They may come close, though.

the low temp setting on my 2002 65411 is also labeled 6500K. It's not. For consumer products, unless the mgfr specifically claims D65 as a feature, it won't be. They may come close, though.

This TV differs fundamentally from any you might be familiar with. These lasers don't emit broad band spectra and don't behave like Blackbodies that have to be thermostated. Their wavelengths are unchangeable, so each of RGB is fixed in color. Since the wavelengths are tuned to the single mode laser cavity, no drift is consistent with lasing. Consumers will not have access to these laser drives, believe me. So that's fixed, so how do you make a reference white? With this technology you can do that by an appropriate Pulse Width Modulation scheme. Now regarding a mfgr's ability to do that correctly on a production line, trust me, mfgr's have routine access to the most expensive state of the art test equipment. Stuff that would make Calibrators drool. There is no great mystery about how to set these things up, no lack of knowledge by in house technical folks. Sometimes we delude ourselves into thinking we are the ones who know most.
I think I finally understand where some of the cynicisim is based; if I were a Calibration Guy, I would have disdain for a TV technology which does not age or drift. No reason to come back for a recal.

I can agree with "progressing" but certainly not on schedule. The lauching of the 65" instead of the 73" is a big mistake, IMO.
their schedule was to ship by the end of the 3rd quarter. sounds like they did exactly that.

Or do you mean to say they didnt meet the schedule in your head?

their schedule was to ship by the end of the 3rd quarter. sounds like they did exactly that.

Or do you mean to say they didnt meet the schedule in your head?

No, not in my head. The first post has been updated but originally the laservue was promised to be available in 2007. First announcement was in Feb 2006. I have been following this subject since the beginning and it seems you have not. I never post anything "from my head". Do some womework before you post. Here is one of the old press article about the Laservue:

http://www.techchee.com/2007/12/30/mitsubishi-to-unveil-laser-tv-at-ces-2008/

This is a quote from the article :

Mitsubishi has revealed that they will unveil its long-due Laser TV in the upcoming CES 2008. The Laser TV technology was given a glimpse in 2006 and Mitsubishi was talking about the release to be in 2007, but they failed to stick to that schedule. Anyway, in CES next year, you’ll get to see the Laser TV in action.

There is no great mystery about how to set these things up, no lack of knowledge by in house technical folks. Sometimes we delude ourselves into thinking we are the ones who know most.
I think I finally understand where some of the cynicisim is based; if I were a Calibration Guy, I would have disdain for a TV technology which does not age or drift. No reason to come back for a recal.


It is clear after years of dealing with Mitsubishi as a dealer, authorized servicer, and calibration specialist that there is little connection between the people who understand how to make properly calibrated images and the product that hits the market. You will not find more than a couple of people at MDEA that have a clue about color decoding.

The fact that lasers use very frequency stable colimated light is precisely what creates a problem for making sets that produce color correctly. How they manage the color decoder is the big question. They couldn't get it right for DLP (though close). We'll see when it gets here.

I've used the opening of the Pirates BD and neither the 835 nor the Samsung 750 were even close to the Elite 151.


Were all three well--let alone professionally--calibrated?

Not challenging your claim, maybe your qualifier ("weren't even close"). :)

Icaillo,

Look, do you want to go off line and have a detailed technical discussion on Color Theory?

Icaillo,

Look, do you want to go off line and have a detailed technical discussion on Color Theory?
Color theory is one thing. What the manufacture ACTUALLY does is almost always completely different. Very few sets have ever shipped with a 6500K mode that was actually close to accurate and it seems reasonable to assume (and hope to be wrong) that the LaserVue's won't be any different.

Were all three well--let alone professionally--calibrated?

Not challenging your claim, maybe your qualifier ("weren't even close"). :)

Just referring to black level and shadow detail they aren't even close, period, end of story. The Elite 9G has been measured with a black level of .001, see home theater mag or ultimate AV. On the owners thread here at AVS an 835 owner posted his post calibration readings and his measured .1, pretty good for dlp. I've yet to see a review of the 750 that gave the black level measurement. I got the settings for the 750 I tested off the owners thread here and the black level I observed was better than my ISF'd HLS 6188, but nowhere near the 9G Elite.

The 750 is a very good set for the money. Every single review of the 9G Elite has said it is the best set on the market as of right now, with it's black level being singled out for one of the reasons. I own and like a dlp set, the led version is an improvement but not a quantum leap. Turn off all the lights and watch the opening of last Pirates BD on the 151. It is a real torture test, which is why I've used it. No dlp on the market as of right now can compare. That doesn't mean your set, or mine, is not very good. The fact that they don't have CRT black levels is a given. Plasma is getting close, my hope is the laservue comes closer.

I keep harping on the Elite not because I own or plan to buy one. It's because it is generally considered the gold standard, or one of them, and that is what Mits is going to have to equal or exceed with the laservue. Since the laservue is priced about the same as the 151 it will have to have, at a minimum, equal performance just to overcome the form factor dis-advantage. Probably superior performance.

Icaillo,

Look, do you want to go off line and have a detailed technical discussion on Color Theory?


I am happy to discuss color theory here in the forums, though such a discussion should be in a new thread. Color theory was not the point. The departure from it on the part of Mitsubishi in the past was the point. No one with any calibration experience with their sets would debate that point. Hopefully, they have done a great job with the laser product. We will see when we get to measure, calibrate, and view it at lenght. Until then, it is all speculation.

Just referring to black level and shadow detail they aren't even close, period, end of story. The Elite 9G has been measured with a black level of .001, see home theater mag or ultimate AV.

Better find out what they measured the magenta .001 with.


On the owners thread here at AVS an 835 owner posted his post calibration readings and his measured .1, pretty good for dlp. I've yet to see a review of the 750 that gave the black level measurement. I got the settings for the 750 I tested off the owners thread here and the black level I observed was better than my ISF'd HLS 6188, but nowhere near the 9G Elite.

The 750 is a very good set for the money. Every single review of the 9G Elite has said it is the best set on the market as of right now, with it's black level being singled out for one of the reasons. I own and like a dlp set, the led version is an improvement but not a quantum leap. Turn off all the lights and watch the opening of last Pirates BD on the 151. It is a real torture test, which is why I've used it. No dlp on the market as of right now can compare. That doesn't mean your set, or mine, is not very good. The fact that they don't have CRT black levels is a given. Plasma is getting close, my hope is the laservue comes closer.

I keep harping on the Elite not because I own or plan to buy one. It's because it is generally considered the gold standard, or one of them, and that is what Mits is going to have to equal or exceed with the laservue. Since the laservue is priced about the same as the 151 it will have to have, at a minimum, equal performance just to overcome the form factor dis-advantage. Probably superior performance.

HDGuru Gary Merson notes Pioneer is now the gold standard, not Kuro because of issue you state make Kuro the gold stanard.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-premiere-th-65vx100-the-new-king-of-flat-panels-exclusive-first-review/276/

Well it appears that it is coming soon now heh. According to laservuetv.com there is a signup sheet if you have already purchased a laservue and you get access to laservue premier! lol! What's crazy is they specifically state a loaner/replacement program...considering the warranty they give is so minimal and you have to pay for labor on some fixes, I bet they even try to charge you for a loaner!

Better find out what they measured the magenta .001 with.



HDGuru Gary Merson notes Pioneer is now the gold standard, not Kuro because of issue you state make Kuro the gold stanard.

http://hdguru.com/panasonic-premiere-th-65vx100-the-new-king-of-flat-panels-exclusive-first-review/276/

You were in such a hurry to jump off your magenta island you forgot to notice the set Mr. Merson refers to is NOT YET ON THE MARKET.

Any word from Samsung at CEATEC about the future of their LED DLP sets?

Any word from Samsung at CEATEC about the future of their LED DLP sets?

You might have better luck if you asked this question on one of the Samsung LED threads in the RPTV section:

Rear Projection Forums (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=63)

However Samsung is just as tight lipped about future product updates as Mitsubishi, so don't hold your breath.

Dan

I will be stopping by on Friday, but not sure if they will allow us to video the event, If I can I will.

Sweet bro , thanx , looking forward to ur review

You might have better luck if you asked this question on one of the Samsung LED threads in the RPTV section:

Rear Projection Forums (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/forumdisplay.php?f=63)

However Samsung is just as tight lipped about future product updates as Mitsubishi, so don't hold your breath.
I suspect rrollens was hoping that peteer01 would reply as he indicated he was at CEATEC. I doubt there are too many people on the forum who were, so posting in the Rear Projection forums probably wouldn't get any useful responses. However as you essentiall mention, I doubt that Samsung would make any announcements other than announcing new models - they aren't likely to simply announce that their RPTV line is dead after the current generation as it's likely to hurt sales.

Any word from Samsung at CEATEC about the future of their LED DLP sets?


We were told in service training acouple of weeks ago that Samsung will cease production of all DLP RPTV after December 2008.

Well it appears that it is coming soon now heh. According to laservuetv.com there is a signup sheet if you have already purchased a laservue and you get access to laservue premier! lol! What's crazy is they specifically state a loaner/replacement program...considering the warranty they give is so minimal and you have to pay for labor on some fixes, I bet they even try to charge you for a loaner!

No one should ever have to pay labor on a warranty repair, unless it is some accommodation after the warranty period. All vendors have contracts with ASCs that keep them from charging any additional labor. What loaner program they may have and how it will work is uncertain at this time.

interesting thing is that they have a forum for owners.

http://laservuetv.com/premier/forum.php

You were in such a hurry to jump off your magenta island you forgot to notice the set Mr. Merson refers to is NOT YET ON THE MARKET.

Seems you have forgotten that I have stated the Panasonic Plasma THX was the standard for weeks now. If you bother to read the article you would have also found someone else on the magenta island as well, but has been noted over and over in this thread and others, too many people have blinders on when it comes to their views (and think the Emperor is wearing clothes).

Any word from Samsung at CEATEC about the future of their LED DLP sets?Samsung was not at CEATEC this year, which is kind of surprising. (All of the Japanese TV manufacturers had huge exhibits with dozens of TVs, and usually dozens of attractive women in sexy outfits...Samsung may have figured the expense of competing wasn't worth it?)

That said, Samsung has a tough time in the TV market here, in part because they're Korean.

Seems you have forgotten that I have stated the Panasonic Plasma THX was the standard for weeks now. If you bother to read the article you would have also found someone else on the magenta island as well, but has been noted over and over in this thread and others, too many people have blinders on when it comes to their views (and think the Emperor is wearing clothes).

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Regardless, your response to my post cited an unreleased set to rebut my comment that the Elite is, at the very least, a contender for the gold standard. Not what the gold standard may become. Read what I wrote very carefully, then read what you wrote again. You like the current Panasonic, fine. We'll just agree to disagree.

Just because you say so doesn't make it so. Regardless, your response to my post cited an unreleased set to rebut my comment that the Elite is, at the very least, a contender for the gold standard. Not what the gold standard may become. Read what I wrote very carefully, then read what you wrote again. You like the current Panasonic, fine. We'll just agree to disagree.

Yawn....Just because I say it - and seem to have many other critical experts on "my little island" as you call it.

http://gizmodo.com/393840/panasonic-thx-display-certified-viera-th+50pz800u-new-king-of-plasmas-for-now

5/28/2008

Panasonic THX Display Certified Viera TH-50PZ800U New King of Plasmas (for Now)

After months of reigning as the best TVs on the planet, Pioneer's Kuro is finally challenged for the throne by Panasonic's THX Display-certified Viera TH-50PZ800U. It's the THX mode that gives it the edge, with its superior color accuracy and uniformity making it "one of the best-performing plasmas"


The real question is how the LaserVue compares against the Panasonic THX Plasma for King of the Hill.

Yawn....Just because I say it - and seem to have many other critical experts on "my little island" as you call it.

http://gizmodo.com/393840/panasonic-thx-display-certified-viera-th+50pz800u-new-king-of-plasmas-for-now

5/28/2008

Panasonic THX Display Certified Viera TH-50PZ800U New King of Plasmas (for Now)

After months of reigning as the best TVs on the planet, Pioneer's Kuro is finally challenged for the throne by Panasonic's THX Display-certified Viera TH-50PZ800U. It's the THX mode that gives it the edge, with its superior color accuracy and uniformity making it "one of the best-performing plasmas"


The real question is how the LaserVue compares against the Panasonic THX Plasma for King of the Hill.


It looks to me that this snippet of an article says:

"Pioneer's Kuro is finally challenged for the throne".

And "one of the best performing plasmas"

I don't see where it is labled as "better"

Yawn....Just because I say it - and seem to have many other critical experts on "my little island" as you call it.

http://gizmodo.com/393840/panasonic-thx-display-certified-viera-th+50pz800u-new-king-of-plasmas-for-now

5/28/2008

Panasonic THX Display Certified Viera TH-50PZ800U New King of Plasmas (for Now)

After months of reigning as the best TVs on the planet, Pioneer's Kuro is finally challenged for the throne by Panasonic's THX Display-certified Viera TH-50PZ800U. It's the THX mode that gives it the edge, with its superior color accuracy and uniformity making it "one of the best-performing plasmas"


The real question is how the LaserVue compares against the Panasonic THX Plasma for King of the Hill.

Panasonic's TH-65VX100U , 60,000:1 contrast ratio (with an "industry-leading gradation level of 7,160 steps"), 18-bit digital signal processing, 16 adjustment menus and a Full HD (1,920 x 1,080) panel . <------ This will be better than a 9G kuro in Jan. 09

If laservue sucks ill be probably getting the 65VX100U

I just saw a prototype at a local hi-end new product show. The color saturation was really good; it made anything else look really drab. I had picked out a PE Kuro60" as my next display but the Laservue might just have trumped that choice. The (relatively fat) form factor doesn't bother me but an extra 5" diagonal and really bright colors has me seriously considering this piece.

I'm going back in Saturday for another view, hopefully with an HD football game broadcast and/or really dark source material. There's also a Pioneer Elite Kuro in the same room for comparison. I'm already tempted to buy it.

anyone know anything about the processor used in the A90? does it do 12bit , 14bit , 16bit ,...ETC ?

Yawn....Just because I say it - and seem to have many other critical experts on "my little island" as you call it.

http://gizmodo.com/393840/panasonic-thx-display-certified-viera-th+50pz800u-new-king-of-plasmas-for-now

5/28/2008

Panasonic THX Display Certified Viera TH-50PZ800U New King of Plasmas (for Now)

After months of reigning as the best TVs on the planet, Pioneer's Kuro is finally challenged for the throne by Panasonic's THX Display-certified Viera TH-50PZ800U. It's the THX mode that gives it the edge, with its superior color accuracy and uniformity making it "one of the best-performing plasmas"


The real question is how the LaserVue compares against the Panasonic THX Plasma for King of the Hill.

Thank you for making my point for me. The 50PZ800U comment you used originates from CNET, which recently named the 9G Elite "the best perfoming HDTV ever". CNET, Ultimate AV and Home Theater Mag all have tested the 9G Elite and concluded it is the best HDTV on the market right now. If your eyes tell you differently, fine. Still, you remain on an island. Additionally, comments about a set that has not been released are immaterial to the current gold standard.

Alright, so where's the folks who went to Bjorn's and have seen this bad boy in action!

Time to start a new thread.

Instead of discussing Laservue, this one's turned into some bizarro world plasma rant site.

Note to plasmaniacs: That's great you like plasma. I'm sure there's threads for that. You might want to try one of those.

I just returned from Bjorn's where I spent about thirty minutes looking at the laservue. The results are inconclusive, here's why:

1. The set was in torch mode and the reps were reluctant to change it. They had it set up between an Elite 151 and a Sharp 65" lcd. They said all three sets were left in their "out of the box settings" to make the comparison fair.

2. I saw quite a bit of screen crawl, if you looked at a white field the screen looked alive with noise. Is this called the silk screen effect? Anyway, it may have been made worse by the color intensity and brightness being much to high.

3. The color temp was a joke, white was egg shell blue.

4. The black level was weak, inferior to the Sharp and not even close to the Elite.

All of this is inconclusive as the set was set up to impress people with being big and bright. All the reps talked about was the color. I'll go back next week when the crowds are gone. My salesman and I can then adjust the settings to a more rational level.

Thanks for the review egrady. Sounds like all they are trying to push is vibrant colors on these sets. If the set's black levels were inferior to a sharp lcd even on torch mode that pretty much gives me a thumbs down right there.

If the set was all that they want us to believe it was, they would at the very least calibrate the Mits and leave the other 2 in torch mode to show it off. It must not have the capabilities of "showing off" that well other than crazy colors.

But isn't the unit only there for the weekend?

I just returned from Bjorn's where I spent about thirty minutes looking at the laservue. The results are inconclusive, here's why:

1. The set was in torch mode and the reps were reluctant to change it. They had it set up between an Elite 151 and a Sharp 65" lcd. They said all three sets were left in their "out of the box settings" to make the comparison fair.

2. I saw quite a bit of screen crawl, if you looked at a white field the screen looked alive with noise. Is this called the silk screen effect? Anyway, it may have been made worse by the color intensity and brightness being much to high.

3. The color temp was a joke, white was egg shell blue.

4. The black level was weak, inferior to the Sharp and not even close to the Elite.

All of this is inconclusive as the set was set up to impress people with being big and bright. All the reps talked about was the color. I'll go back next week when the crowds are gone. My salesman and I can then adjust the settings to a more rational level.



WTF!!!!!! what are the reps doing!!! Mitsubishi said they are catering to high end! , but with color! in torch mode. whats goin on. Dont they know what high end consumers want? What do high end TV consumers want? Torch mode , black levels , color?

Great review egrady , hopefully when you get your hands on the controller and make some adjustments performance will be alot better. keeping my fingers crossed.

I saw quite a bit of screen crawl, if you looked at a white field the screen looked alive with noise. Is this called the silk screen effect?

Depends... did you have to move to make it "alive", or did it seem to crawl on it's own even if your head was perfectly still? If it moved on it's own, I would suspect that they haven't learned to completely tame laser speckle. But if it required head movement, then it could be SSE. SSE is very similar to looking at an image on a projector screen, where there's a little bit of reflective grain to the screen and the reflectance varies dependinong on your angle to the individual grains.

If it's only benefit is "vibrant color", then that's very disapointing. You don't need a $7k laser set to deliver all the color encoded in current standards.

'vibrant colors' could be good, or it could mean weird skin tone. I can deal with less than inky blacks, but orange/clay face/plastic looking skin drives me nuts.

egrady, what was the general impression among the people there, techie or otherwise. Do you think many people will be buying this thing?

Vibrant colors don't really do alot for me if there is crappy blacks. If I'm paying more for this set than a similar size flat panel it should be superior in more than one way, and thats assuming that the colors are really that much better looking. Brightness has no bearing as every set I've ever seen has been bright enough for home use. If I want brighter I'll stare at the sun.

In response to the two questions:

1. They actually have two sets on display. One is in a trailer and is being used to show 3d images. The other one is in the store. The one on the trailer will go on the road, the other will stay at Bjorn's.

2. The screen crawl I saw did not require that you move you head. It looked like the screen was alive. It was particularly easy to see when there were large fields of white being displayed.

How did the set showing 3d images look...are there any kind of glasses or anything required or is it basically just marketing bs.

'vibrant colors' could be good, or it could mean weird skin tone. I can deal with less than inky blacks, but orange/clay face/plastic looking skin drives me nuts.

egrady, what was the general impression among the people there, techie or otherwise. Do you think many people will be buying this thing?

I did hear a few comments from people that gave the impression they might frequent this forum. They wanted to change the settings as well. Another said he'd come back when they used different demo material. The contrast, brightness and color intensity were so glaring it was apparent they were trying to overpower the competition with sensory overload.

How did the set showing 3d images look...are there any kind of glasses or anything required or is it basically just marketing bs.

You needed glasses. It took a moment for your eyes to get used to it, but once you did the effect was pretty dramatic. The problem was the picture quality on that laservue was worse than the one in the store. I have no idea if the 3d effect sacrifices conventional picture quality in some way or if it was just a fluke.

Originally Posted by egrady
I just returned from Bjorn's where I spent about thirty minutes looking at the laservue. The results are inconclusive, here's why:

1. The set was in torch mode and the reps were reluctant to change it. They had it set up between an Elite 151 and a Sharp 65" lcd. They said all three sets were left in their "out of the box settings" to make the comparison fair.

2. I saw quite a bit of screen crawl, if you looked at a white field the screen looked alive with noise. Is this called the silk screen effect? Anyway, it may have been made worse by the color intensity and brightness being much to high.
3. The color temp was a joke, white was egg shell blue.

4. The black level was weak, inferior to the Sharp and not even close to the Elite.
All of this is inconclusive as the set was set up to impress people with being big and bright. All the reps talked about was the color. I'll go back next week when the crowds are gone. My salesman and I can then adjust the settings to a more rational level.
I was there too, but I have some different conclusions. It's amazing how different people see different things.

1. I saw the settings in both the "Natural" and "Brilliant" modes. When the three sets were side-by-side (Sharp, Mits, Kuro), they went bright, medium, dark when in "Natural" mode. The brilliant modes improved the blacks and whites and the brightness of the Sharp was less noticable. I thought they were going for Goldie Locks and the Three Bears, "this one is just right" portrayal. I don’t know why they wouldn’t switch it back to “Natural” for you, they did it no problem for me.

2. I didn’t notice a screen crawl, but I wasn’t looking for it. That’s one of the reasons I don’t like this forum. We tend to be so picky we can’t enjoy anything and can only find what’s missing, not what’s there.

3. The white looked whiter than the Kuro to me and the black had more detail out of the box; maybe because I saw both modes. I did not feel that way until I saw the Samurai scene and saw the black and shadow details missing on the other two sets. The Kuro had blacker blacks. I wish I would have remembered my camera. I also noticed more crowd details in the background on the High School Musical scene and one scene on Madagascar looked much better.

4. I felt the extra color was significant, but maybe because I like vibrant colors. The reds were redder, the yellow sun is Spore was great, way more yellow than the other two sets. The gold in the Samurai looked much better too and the shadow detail was more obvious.

5. My conclusion is this. It’s a nice set, but not worth 3 times the street price of the 65835. I will most likely pick one up when the second gen comes out with DC5 and the price becomes reasonable. I was also impressed by the 3D demo, (more than I thought I would be), and the new Nvidia prototype 3D glasses. That was on the LaserVue as well. The off axis was very good in both 3D and non-3D.

On a different note, the demise of RPTV was debunked by the Mits reps. They are getting ready to release all new models next year.

Thanks Lowell for your review of the set. Since they are continueing their DLP line I wonder how next years or even this years compare to Laservue.

Originally posted by vili:
Thanks Lowell for your review of the set. Since they are continueing their DLP line I wonder how next years or even this years compare to Laservue.

Me too. I tried to pull next gen TI Dark Chip info out of them, but they would not discuss DC at all, not even what was in their sets. They also said that sales of 60"+ sets have been increasing since last year and they are projecting them to double next year.

Depends... did you have to move to make it "alive", or did it seem to crawl on it's own even if your head was perfectly still? If it moved on it's own, I would suspect that they haven't learned to completely tame laser speckle.This is what I saw at the CEATEC demo on Tuesday. I didn't know what to call it, but "laser speckle" sounds like a great way to describe it. Highly disappointing, it was in any large area of one color, regardless of head movement. I completely lost interest in the technology after that and the sub-par 3D, which gave me a headache. (The Panasonic 3D demo at CEATEC did not, and the Samsung demoes at Yodobashi and Bic Camera do not.)

I was there too, but I have some different conclusions. It's amazing how different people see different things.

1. I saw the settings in both the "Natural" and "Brilliant" modes. When the three sets were side-by-side (Sharp, Mits, Kuro), they went bright, medium, dark when in "Natural" mode. The brilliant modes improved the blacks and whites and the brightness of the Sharp was less noticable. I thought they were going for Goldie Locks and the Three Bears, "this one is just right" portrayal. I don’t know why they wouldn’t switch it back to “Natural” for you, they did it no problem for me.

2. I didn’t notice a screen crawl, but I wasn’t looking for it. That’s one of the reasons I don’t like this forum. We tend to be so picky we can’t enjoy anything and can only find what’s missing, not what’s there.

3. The white looked whiter than the Kuro to me and the black had more detail out of the box; maybe because I saw both modes. I did not feel that way until I saw the Samurai scene and saw the black and shadow details missing on the other two sets. The Kuro had blacker blacks. I wish I would have remembered my camera. I also noticed more crowd details in the background on the High School Musical scene and one scene on Madagascar looked much better.

4. I felt the extra color was significant, but maybe because I like vibrant colors. The reds were redder, the yellow sun is Spore was great, way more yellow than the other two sets. The gold in the Samurai looked much better too and the shadow detail was more obvious.

5. My conclusion is this. It’s a nice set, but not worth 3 times the street price of the 65835. I will most likely pick one up when the second gen comes out with DC5 and the price becomes reasonable. I was also impressed by the 3D demo, (more than I thought I would be), and the new Nvidia prototype 3D glasses. That was on the LaserVue as well. The off axis was very good in both 3D and non-3D.

On a different note, the demise of RPTV was debunked by the Mits reps. They are getting ready to release all new models next year.

I agree that the Laservue had much better shadow detail than the Pioneer. I also liked the color shades, the gold was impressive. But, the 151 Bjorn's has set up in another room looks alot better than the one next to the Mits. The one used for comparison was much to dark and had serious black crush. Thats the problem with this type of demo. No effort was made to adjust any of the three sets to obtain a picture as accurate as possible from the user settings.

While I don't think the Mits has the ability to approach the black level of a good plasma, the brightness was turned up so much to show off the shadow detail it was hard to tell. I will go by next week, adjust the setting to something more reasonable and report back.

Yawn....Just because I say it - and seem to have many other critical experts on "my little island" as you call it.

http://gizmodo.com/393840/panasonic-thx-display-certified-viera-th+50pz800u-new-king-of-plasmas-for-now

5/28/2008

Panasonic THX Display Certified Viera TH-50PZ800U New King of Plasmas (for Now)

After months of reigning as the best TVs on the planet, Pioneer's Kuro is finally challenged for the throne by Panasonic's THX Display-certified Viera TH-50PZ800U. It's the THX mode that gives it the edge, with its superior color accuracy and uniformity making it "one of the best-performing plasmas"


The real question is how the LaserVue compares against the Panasonic THX Plasma for King of the Hill.

Sorry, your Panny 800 is not on the same level as the 9G Elites, very nice plasma though and almost anyone would be thrilled with one.

As far as specualtion on a brief viewing with no calibration and OTB settings is useless.
Soon enough we'll know what the real deal is.....hoping for the best.

Are you guys talking about SSE when you mention screen crawl?

Andersons in Redwood City was installing a LaserVue this afternoon and I dropped by this evening to see it in action.

I have never considered rear projection due to the shifting colors as you move up and down or around the room. The LaserVue is the only rear projection set I have seen that almost avoids this problem. An almost imperceptible shift that I could live with.

The overall picture was most certainly not worth the premium over the nearby DLP sets. I cannot imagine the average customer, or even an expert, paying this much for this set. May I say clayface? Andersons may do some more tweaking over the next few days, but this was a pretty boring debut for a long awaited set.

Thank you for making my point for me. The 50PZ800U comment you used originates from CNET, which recently named the 9G Elite "the best perfoming HDTV ever". CNET, Ultimate AV and Home Theater Mag all have tested the 9G Elite and concluded it is the best HDTV on the market right now. If your eyes tell you differently, fine. Still, you remain on an island. Additionally, comments about a set that has not been released are immaterial to the current gold standard.

Again, the island is gaining more and more people.

"I compared a number of Blu-ray discs and HD cable fare with the two displays side by side. Both panels produced excellent images. However, the Pioneer’s anti-reflective screen coating proved more effective than the one Panasonic employs, in reducing in-room reflections. The extra effectiveness came at a cost; it adds a purple-reddish tint to the image that was clearly seen with both displays side by side. Calibration was not a solution; it is the nature of the KURO panel

Seems you read just what you wanted to read....and ignored the rest.