IF YOU THINK SOMETHING SHOULD BE ADDED TO THIS THREAD, PLEASE PM ME.

Official Mitsubishi LaserVue website: http://laservuetv.com/
Mitsubishi LaserVue product page: http://www.mitsubishi-tv.com/product/L65A90
The Mitsubishi LaserVue 65" are out for sale now at an MSRP of $6999

Wikipedia Laser TV: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_TV

Reviews:
http://hdguru.com/mitsubishi-laservue-l65-a90-first-tech-review-hd-guru-exclusive/310/
"To wrap up, the L-65A90 has its place among the best HDTVs in the market today. Price wise, it is comparable or less than competing size flat screen displays such as the 65” Panasonic Premiere. The HD Guru awards the Mitsubishi L65A90 its highest (4-heart) rating."

http://www.time.com/time/business/article/0,8599,1848456,00.html
"the best home-entertainment display in America."

http://www.thetechlounge.com/article/585-3/Mitsubishi-LaserVue-65-HDTV-We-Meet-Again/


Older info:
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Official press release: http://www.reuters.com/article/press...008+BW20080108
"Mitsubishi LaserTVs not only provide the ultimate picture quality, they are also capable of delivering a true 3D viewing experience, demonstrating the company's continued commitment to set the standard for entertainment viewing by partnering with Hollywood on next-generation entertainment solutions. Mitsubishi teamed with leading 3D digital technology provider REAL D (http://www.reald.com/) to demonstrate the most advanced 3D content available today." - Stereoscopic (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Real_D_Cinema) capabilities, bonus! REAL D makes the technology used in theme parks and used in recent 3D movies like Meet the Robinsons, Chicken Little and Beowolf. Of note, Mitsubishi is also making (http://www.google.com/search?sourceid=mozclient&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&q=Mitsubishi+3D+Blu-ray) the first 3D Blu-ray player. Samsung also has stereo 3D in some of it's TVs that also uses (http://product.samsung.com/dlp3d/) LCD shutter technology.

June 25, 2008 (http://www.believingisseeing.tv/june_23_2008.pdf): "LaserVue will be available in 65" and 73" models with the 65” Diamond shipping to authorized retailers in the third quarter of this year and the 73” Diamond to follow." - "With operating power targeted at under 200 watts, they are environmentally friendly, consuming approximately one-half the power of today's LCD TVs, and one-third of plasma TVs. At approximately 10 inches deep, LaserVue TV has been designed for both floor stand and wall-mount applications."

As you can see it is not a flat panel design as was previously reported (http://www.smh.com.au/news/biztech/laser-tv-no-plasma-killer/2006/10/19/1160851051544.html?page=2), but it is under 10" deep and is wall mountable (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2587/laser-vision.html). Their official FAQ states that it will use DLP technology.

In 2006 it was reported (http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,339271573,00.htm) that: "Pricing is yet to be confirmed but Novalux estimates (http://www.cnet.com.au/tvs/0,239035250,339271573,00.htm) a 65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma." - And they have always touted it as inexpensive over the years.

Before CES IGN said: http://gear.ign.com/articles/843/843644p1.html
"This year's show is particularly interesting, as we'll witness the world reveal of Laser HDTV, a new display technology that some have promised will deliver 60-inch HDTVs priced at less than $1,000 by the end of the year."

But after CES IGN says: http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844527p1.html
"pricing would be equivalent to flat panel displays of the same size, which means around $5k to $7k. That's a far cry from previous comments (http://gear.ign.com/articles/738/738336p1.html) from Novalux (designer of the RGB lasers in the displays) that the technology would cost only half as much as alternate HDTV technologies. Mitsubishi is apparently banking on the high end for the initial launch of Laser HDTV, though it'll be interesting to see what traction the company can gain in a market that is increasingly favoring hang on the wall flat panels."

More exclusive info and pics from Wired (interestingly, they call it a 50"): http://blog.wired.com/gadgets/2008/01/ces-2008-mitsub.html
"The Laser TV comes embedded with a Real-D 3D processor so that, with the specific glasses (like those you get at top IMAXes, you can see top of the line 3D programming at home.
They will be released late this year, around Black Friday, and will retail over the price of current LCDs. We’ll follow up with more details and an exclusive interview with the Vice President of the US division." - The first thing I'd ask in the interview is why did the price shoot up so dramatically!

Engadget's pics here: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/07/mitsubishis-65-inch-laser-tv-prototype-spotted/

Gizmodo's coverage of the girls in their booth: http://gizmodo.com/342045/mitsubishi-laser-tvs-colors-look-even-juicier-than-the-girls-on-the-set

More pics and information here: http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=23268

PC World's impressions are interesting: http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html
"I felt like a kid experiencing something new for the first time. I think I took my eyes off the TVs just once to turn to my colleague Jeff Kuta to say "wow." He looked back at me and simply nodded his head in agreement.""Though pricing isn't announced, I was told that you won't see the Laser TVs at your Best Buys and Circuit Citys. Rather, they'll only be available through high-end retailers." - That's not good!

Smarthouse and MIT's Technology Review information confirming LCD Glasses used: http://www.technologyreview.com/blog/editors/21996/ & http://www.smarthouse.com.au/CES/J3J9X7G7

Sound and Vision guesses that it will cost around $5500: http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2587/laser-vision.html

Official price statement: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/w...ext-big-thing/
Frank DeMartin, general manager of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America says only that: "it'll be competitive with flat panel prices"

Detailed Laser TV information:
http://www.lasertvnews.com/
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laser_TV
http://laser-tv.org/

http://www.sfgate.com/blogs/images/sfgate/techchron/2008/01/07/ces2007_127500x375.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/mitsu-laser-1.jpg

http://www.blogsmithmedia.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/01/mitsu-laser-img_0745.jpg

JVC also has a Laser Projector at the show that is basically a hacked D-ILA (http://tv.jvc.com/product.jsp?pathId=140&modelId=MODL027863) with lasers: http://www.photonicsonline.com/content/news/article.asp?DocID=%7B41FF55B9-CCAB-4F7B-8652-13B33B2DEE83%7D&Bucket=Current+Headlines&VNETCOOKIE=NO

My Take: The prospect of Laser TV has intrigued me for a while now, along with SED. They bragged all along that you could get one with double the colors and perfect blacks for much cheaper than Plasma/LCD in 2007. But now they are planning to release it in another year and for more than a flat panel LCD!?!? With Dark plasmas on the way and SED still a possibility, not worth the wait...

Nice find Miah! I'm waiting eagerly to find out more about this new Laser DLP TVs & how it performed @ it's unvieling & what those who attended thought.

More here: http://www.i4u.com/article13938.html

Press release: http://www.reuters.com/article/pressRelease/idUS54220+08-Jan-2008+BW20080108

"Mitsubishi LaserTVs not only provide the ultimate picture quality,
they are also capable of delivering a true 3D viewing experience,
demonstrating the company's continued commitment to set the standard
for entertainment viewing by partnering with Hollywood on
next-generation entertainment solutions."

The most important announcement of CES 08 (IMO). Let's hope the PQ matches the hype.

The most important announcement of CES 08 (IMO). Let's hope the PQ matches the hype.

Couldn't agree more!! Let's hope we find out a few more details, like more specs and prices, sometime soon!!

I think OLED will prove to have a better overall PQ than laser. I dont think laser contrast ratio can touch Oled

probably to early too tell but will this set be released this year?

I think OLED will prove to have a better overall PQ than laser. I dont think laser contrast ratio can touch Oled

It looks like the laser will be much less expensive than OLED. The question is how close the CR and viewing angles are and the life span of the laser.

probably to early too tell but will this set be released this year?


I saw a statement on Gizmodo that said "later this year"...

I saw a statement on Gizmodo that said "later this year"...

It says so in the first post, around Black Friday.

Here's another story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=23268

The Black Friday date is kind of a bummer. I'll reclaim my basement rec-room when my son begins college in late August (after many years of it being his domain), and that's my target date for making the jump to HDTV. Laser seems to fit all my criteria, and I really don't want to wait until late-November!

BTW; I'm wondering why the various stories are running such crappy pictures!

Looks promising. A few key questions:

-- How deep is the 65" set? Looks pretty slim. If less than 12" deep, definitely a winner.

-- How bright? Can it match LCD for daytime viewing?

-- Are viewing angles similar to other RP technologies, or better? I'm thinking that the coherent, focused nature of a laser light source might allow for a different RP screen design with wider viewing angles.

Looks promising. A few key questions:

-- How deep is the 65" set? Looks pretty slim. If less than 12" deep, definitely a winner.

-"just under 10 inches deep".

Here's another story:
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/blogs/sfgate/detail?blogid=19&entry_id=23268

The Black Friday date is kind of a bummer. I'll reclaim my basement rec-room when my son begins college in late August (after many years of it being his domain), and that's my target date for making the jump to HDTV. Laser seems to fit all my criteria, and I really don't want to wait until late-November!

BTW; I'm wondering why the various stories are running such crappy pictures!

Thanks, added the info and pic above!

SED was displayed as a prototype but then fizzled. This one, however, looks more promising with some projected dates and sizes. Glad I'm happy with my D-ILA so I can wait for my next purchase.

We currently don't have Mitsubishi HDTVs in Canada but then we didn't have their cars until recently either and now we do, so the future looks interesting.

Hey RP fans, who needs Sony anyway?

I think OLED will prove to have a better overall PQ than laser. I dont think laser contrast ratio can touch Oled

I saw on Sony's website they have the new OLED TV 11" screen for 2500 bucks but it's only 3mm thick..

I saw on Sony's website they have the new OLED TV 11" screen for 2500 bucks but it's only 3mm thick..

Wow. 11". That might look great on a portable BD player. What would that cost? $3k.

Also, what is it about Sony not supporting Western technology. They don't do DLP (Texas Instruments) and it appears they won't do Laser (Novalux).

Nothing that fantastic about 3D support, it was in last years models (you need to wear glasses and you probably still have to buy the box and glasses), and the fact that nVidia has a terrible record on keeping 3D updates to games timely (they have to support it), makes that part of it non-news.

That being said, heck yeah if I'm getting DLP anyway this is a checkmark on my list for a little future-proofing if it does take off.

Same issues with DualView that is also being pushed there--the game has to support it, so I'm not holding my breath.

65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500 ($2,197.00 USD!), significantly less than a similar-sized plasma."

and

and will retail over the price of current LCDs

So which quote is correct? As far as I know LCD's that big do not cost $2100. I'm placing bets on these things being closer to the $10k prices than the $3k prices. So much for it being cheaper to produce.

I'm a believer in the future of OLED, but these laser based DLP TV's well be in homes years before a 65" OLED is even prototyped. It's critical for TI to see these TV's make it, in order to keep DMD sales alive. But that said Front Projection is the future for DMD and Lasers. RPTV will slowly die as flat panels get better, thinner and cheaper. I made the argument about 2 years ago that there wasn't a huge difference between a 4.5" thick plasma and a 12" thick RPTV in 60" sizes. Now we are getting to the point there is a big difference, when Plasma and LCD are is shrunking to 1" and the RPTV is 10" there is a huge difference.

In Front Projection these factors don't matter, a Laser DLP projector projecting at 100" will blow away a 65" Plasma no matter how thin. Plasma and LCD just can't compete at large (home theater) sizes. Sony's KDL-70XBR3 is a 70" LCD for only $ 32,999, it weighs 175 lbs, and is a huge piece of glass to hang on the wall. Even if a laser projector were double the price of the current DLP 1080p based projectors, that would put us in the $5-10,000 range for a decent HT projector. Obviously they aren't ready to put a laser DLP projector on the market yet. But when they do, I have a feeling my Home theater will get that much better.

Nothing that fantastic about 3D support, it was in last years models (you need to wear glasses and you probably still have to buy the box and glasses), and the fact that nVidia has a terrible record on keeping 3D updates to games timely (they have to support it), makes that part of it non-news.

That being said, heck yeah if I'm getting DLP anyway this is a checkmark on my list for a little future-proofing if it does take off.

Same issues with DualView that is also being pushed there--the game has to support it, so I'm not holding my breath.

Actually, the Stereo 3D that Nvidia has available for games has nothing to do with what they are adding to this TV. Nvidia's 3D has been around for many moons for games, and uses either red/blue or LCD glasses.


So which quote is correct? As far as I know LCD's that big do not cost $2100. I'm placing bets on these things being closer to the $10k prices than the $3k prices. So much for it being cheaper to produce.

They were bragging about it being under the prices of competitors all along, recently saying that they would be under 1k by year end. Now they are saying that it will be more than LCDs by year end.

Seems they got greedy!

Actually, the Stereo 3D that Nvidia has available for games has nothing to do with what they are adding to this TV. Nvidia's 3D has been around for many moons for games, and uses either red/blue or LCD glasses.

Nothing to do with it? I beg to differ, the only way you get glitch free performance is if you have support at the driver level, so one way or the other to get broad, reliable support you have to have nVidia and/or ATI onboard. Its still two images, so whether it is red-blue, LCD, or this technology, its really all basically the same as far as driver support goes.

This is the 3D that is used at theme parks commonly with polarized glasses, much better technology. It was recently used in Chicken Little, Meet the Robinsons, and Beowolf.


It can't possibly used polarized glasses. If it did, it would have to have two projection lenses with polarizers in front of them, which is how those polarized 3D movies work in theaters.

This DLP 3D must use the shuttered LCD variety of glasses.

Also, I would expect that the dual view technology would actually use two separate inputs on the TV for the two screens. So you could just use 2 consoles with the TV, and it wouldn't need special support in the game.

Nothing to do with it? I beg to differ, the only way you get glitch free performance is if you have support at the driver level, so one way or the other to get broad, reliable support you have to have nVidia and/or ATI onboard. Its still two images, so whether it is red-blue, LCD, or this technology, its really all basically the same as far as driver support goes.

unlike last years mits diamond sets,these use REALD processing inside. that and these are supposed to be 240hz meaning 2 120hz images vs last years 2 60 hz images.

also mits is coming out with a 3d blu ray player. (does anyone know if it was shown or talked about at ces yet?)

Well, if BluRay is supposed to be pushing this technology, there is something wrong with this picture, since Sony=BluRay and Sony won't touch DLP with a 10 foot pole.

Well, if BluRay is supposed to be pushing this technology, there is something wrong with this picture, since Sony=BluRay and Sony won't touch DLP with a 10 foot pole.

mits said they were talking with sony so sony can ad a firmware update to the ps3 to support 3d
and 3d will prob be in flat screens next year.

So the guess is late 2008 release?

mits said they were talking with sony so sony can ad a firmware update to the ps3 to support 3d
and 3d will prob be in flat screens next year.

I don't think that LCDs have the refresh rate to display alternating 120hz images. DLP is actually much faster as a technology and is ideally suited for this type of video trickery.

I think Mitsubishi picked the right slogan "laserTV - Believing is seeing." Along that line of thought is the famous line "I'll believe it when I see it!" (regarding date these are available to purchase)

I also think the pricing comment "will retail over the price of current LCDs" is not very attractive to consumers. Most RPD's which this display resembles are cheaper then LCD's so what the incentive? 3D hardly.

Well the quote saying it will be priced higher than current LCD technology is disappointing. I expected it to come out at 80-90% of whatever similar sized LCD or Plasma would cost. Even if the specs/images are better consumers have already let it be known that they will pay more for a thinner footprint display over pure quality of image. I think 10" footprint will still be too big to actually charge more and hope to recapture some of the market share.

I can't wait until reviewers actually get there hands on these units and can do some real comparisons. I'd also like to read over an official spec sheet. Has anyone found any thorough impression postings?

Mitsubishi is quickly becoming a second tier player in HDTV. They used to be a standard like Sony. Now Samsung generally plays second banana. They need to get this thing out quickly and at a competitive price. If they are talking prices higher than an LCD in the 65" category people will walk right past a brilliant picture and buy the established plasma and LED RPTV options for that size category. Samsung already supports 3D on their DLP sets and the dualview is a niche market (although cool). Maybe everything might be enabled on a higher end HDTV, but they need to get the technology into the market quickly. A lot of people just want the intrinsic benefits of more color and the sharpness that only coherent light can provide.

Also, are front projectors even possible when concerning safety? The cabinet and screen contain the coherent laser light, but while being projected it will pack quite a punch. Looking up into the light of a front projector is painful now. Imagine if the light was coherent?

Even if the specs/images are better consumers have already let it be known that they will pay more for a thinner footprint display over pure quality of image. I think 10" footprint will still be too big to actually charge more and hope to recapture some of the market share.Considering that the new line of ultra thin DLP displays from Samsung will be competitively priced, supporting 3D, and some models using LED's which offer wider color gamut, Mitsubishi has a lot of convincing to do.

Still always nice to see alternative technology out there in the market!

http://www.dealerscope.com/story/story.bsp?sid=85760&var=story&action=thankyou&name=Miah#thankyou

"In addition to unveiling the laser TV, the company conducted 3D demonstrations on the unit using REALD technology that was among the best 3D image this writer has ever seen on a television. The system requires that the content be specially encoded and run from a Blu-ray player to a special 3D set-top-box and viewed with special glasses. A REALD spokesperson said several major Hollywood studios are committed to producing feature films in 3D."

Yeah unless the pricing is either wrong, drops quickly, or the images provided by this technology are just staggeringly superior, Samsung DLP sets could be the next unit I buy. 30,000 hour lamp life is plenty but I will admit the thought of laser being able to produce the same colors and vividness on hour 30000 as it did on hour 100 is exciting.

Mitsubishi is quickly becoming a second tier player in HDTV. They used to be a standard like Sony. Now Samsung generally plays second banana. They need to get this thing out quickly and at a competitive price. If they are talking prices higher than an LCD in the 65" category people will walk right past a brilliant picture and buy the established plasma and LED RPTV options for that size category. Samsung already supports 3D on their DLP sets and the dualview is a niche market (although cool). Maybe everything might be enabled on a higher end HDTV, but they need to get the technology into the market quickly. A lot of people just want the intrinsic benefits of more color and the sharpness that only coherent light can provide.

Also, are front projectors even possible when concerning safety? The cabinet and screen contain the coherent laser light, but while being projected it will pack quite a punch. Looking up into the light of a front projector is painful now. Imagine if the light was coherent?
Novalux are supposed to be showing a front projector at ces. i read it somewhere last night, forgot where though.

If I understand the tech correctly, one major advantage of Laser DLPs over LED or conventional lamp DLPs is the elimination of the color wheel. Because there are three individual lasers (R, B, G), there is no need for sequential color (all three colors can be illuminating the same mirrors at the same time), and therefore no rainbows. And because colors can be processed in parallel rather than sequentially, I also assume that this would increase the temporal resolution of the DLP technology.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, do these sets use non-wobulated DLP chips? And still wondering about viewing angle - same old "poor" RPTV viwing angle or is this better with laser illumination?

No, the lasers will still have to be turned on and off sequentially. Otherwise it would just be displaying black and white images. :) Actually, turning all of them on would be a pretty cool mode for B&W movies.

I can't stand wobulated images. So, personally, I wouldn't buy this unless the pixels were square.

Of course I am not saying all the lasers are always on! Clearly they need to be pulsed on and off. But say you need to display a color on a pixel that is some part R, some part B, and some part G, you can mix those colors quite easily by pulsing the R, G, and B lasers *at the same time* (each in their own independent pulsing cycle), as opposed to a color wheel where you can only display red when the color wheel is on red, display green when the color wheel is on green, etc. This would seem to be a huge advantage!

No color wheel in LED RPTVs either. That's why I 've been saying laser is just a minor, if any, improvement over LED sets from Samsung. Both have insane life, no light output deterioration , no lamp, no wheel, low heat, low power consumption, instant on. Both allow for shallower cases.

Now, when they stick a colorimeter to laser TV and tell you it has wider gamut, it won't necessarily translate to wider gamut as perceived by human eye.

Lasers produce highly coherent light - now, to what extent and how it can be used to the benefit of visual quality in a TV, I dunno

And a brand new 1080p 50" _proven_ LED RPTV from Samsung is $1400 .

Didn't realize LED DLPs have no color wheel - three independent RGB light sources are used, and can be on at the same time? If so, I agree there would appear to be little benefit of laser RPTV over LED.

Does anyone think Mit will come out with, say a 50 inch Laser TV? Any fact, fiction and/or rumor will be appreciated. Let the speculation begin................

According to lasertvnew.com (http://www.lasertvnews.com/features.asp#f1): "Lasers purportedly shut off totally when not needed, frame-to-frame, creating a more natural blackness."

And Gizmodo said "the blacks were midnight-dark".

http://www.lasertvnews.com/images/largedesign.jpg

Does anyone think Mit will come out with, say a 50 inch Laser TV? Any fact, fiction and/or rumor will be appreciated. Let the speculation begin................

dunno, last year mis said that they will only have 57 inches and up, everything below would be king in the lcd/plasma market. rep is king in the larger market.

According to lasertvnew.com (http://www.lasertvnews.com/features.asp#f1): "Lasers purportedly shut off totally when not needed, frame-to-frame, creating a more natural blackness."

And Gizmodo said "he blacks were midnight-dark".


so pretty much the only thing blacker maybe are sed and that new kuro prototype thats coming in 09

And CRT of course.

But blacker, or as black as? Black can only be so black. :)

And CRT of course.

But blacker, or as black as? Black can only be so black. :)

ok but within a big screen size at 1080p :) lol and 240hz

If I understand the tech correctly, one major advantage of Laser DLPs over LED or conventional lamp DLPs is the elimination of the color wheel. Because there are three individual lasers (R, B, G), there is no need for sequential color (all three colors can be illuminating the same mirrors at the same time), and therefore no rainbows. And because colors can be processed in parallel rather than sequentially, I also assume that this would increase the temporal resolution of the DLP technology.

Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Also, do these sets use non-wobulated DLP chips? And still wondering about viewing angle - same old "poor" RPTV viwing angle or is this better with laser illumination?

LED backlit DLP tv's currently available (using PhlatLight led's) also eliminate the color wheel:
http://www.phlatlight.com/

At present, given that LED-based DLP sets have already been in the market for over a year and are constantly improving (sets shown at CES have even brighter pictures and 500,000:1 contrast, 100k lifespan) I can see no benefit that these future laser light source sets provide.

Also, when looking into this, l would be cautioous of the claims of Novalux for the characteristics of competing technologies- they tend compare underperforming previous generation LED products to the potential performance of laser products that might be available sometime in the future.

LED backlit DLP tv's currently available (using PhlatLight led's) also eliminate the color wheel:
http://www.phlatlight.com/

At present, given that LED-based DLP sets have already been in the market for over a year and are constantly improving (sets shown at CES have even brighter pictures and 500,000:1 contrast, 100k lifespan) I can see no benefit that these future laser light source sets provide.

Also, when looking into this, l would be cautioous of the claims of Novalux for the characteristics of competing technologies- they tend compare underperforming previous generation LED products to the potential performance of laser products that might be available sometime in the future.

those were prototypes , the new samsungs for 2008 are 10k:1 contrast still

Any reviews from those who saw the Laster TV demo?

I was hoping for at least a 73 inch display (really hoping for an 80 inch). I don't see any mention of anything but a 65 inch? :(

I was hoping for at least a 73 inch display (really hoping for an 80 inch). I don't see any mention of anything but a 65 inch? :(

I'm sure they'll have a 73'' announced some time this yr. Where's the articles & videos from the demo of this Laser TV? I want to read/see peoples impressions from the demo?

those were prototypes , the new samsungs for 2008 are 10k:1 contrast stillThat information was not posted on any Samsung press releases, it was only seen on engadget? The only other site reporting news concerning (HLxxA650/A750) models was Gizmoto which mentioned no specs for either series 6 DLP or series 7 LED DLP displays. A brief blurb was also on PCMag.com.

I'm not sure any of those specs are valid.

Novalux, Inc., developer of Necsel™ laser technology, will demonstrate a proof-of-concept JVC home theater laser projector during the 2008 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), January 7-10 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The demo will illustrate the enhanced image quality Necsel lasers provide when combined with JVC’s proprietary D-ILA® (Digital Direct Drive Image Light Amplifier) high-definition (HD) projection technology.

Found at:
http://www.oled-display.info

Novalux, Inc., developer of Necsel™ laser technology, will demonstrate a proof-of-concept JVC home theater laser projector during the 2008 International Consumer Electronics Show (CES), January 7-10 in Las Vegas, Nevada. The demo will illustrate the enhanced image quality Necsel lasers provide when combined with JVC’s proprietary D-ILA® (Digital Direct Drive Image Light Amplifier) high-definition (HD) projection technology.

Found at:
http://www.oled-display.info

i wonder if jvc is or has dropped out of rptv buisness though, since no rp announcements.

That information was not posted on any Samsung press releases, it was only seen on engadget? The only other site reporting news concerning (HLxxA650/A750) models was Gizmoto which mentioned no specs for either series 6 DLP or series 7 LED DLP displays. A brief blurb was also on PCMag.com.

I'm not sure any of those specs are valid.

as mentioned above, the 500,000:1 was for a prototype. Here is the TI DLP press release:
http://www.dlp.com/tech/press_releases_details.aspx?id=1340&year=2008

Another potential enhancement for Lasers vs LED in FP as opposed to RP is the narrow spectrum of the emitted light, possibly allowing a screen to be developed with high ambient light rejection. The theory goes like this... The current dark screen technologies absorb some frequencies of light and reflect others. For current projectors this only works so well due to the very wide spectrum emitted through the color filters in the DLP color wheel. With a laser light source, there are only 3 very small light spectrum peaks to reflect off the screen, EVERYTHING outside those 3 small frequency bands can be absorbed. Novalux laser emits the following; blue (460-nm), green (532-nm) and red (620-nm), with a spectral width of 1-2 nm. design the screen to reflect blue from 458-462nm (4nm window) and do the same with green and red and you now have deep blacks and vivid projected colors. Will this screen be easy to design? I have know idea, but I'm sure it is possible. This would greatly increase the adoption factor of FP due to the huge number of potential rooms that could take advantage of such a setup. No longer would FP be the realm of "fanatical cave dwellers".

For the RPTV crowd I think another potential advantage of Laser over LED is to do with the laser light being polarized by definition. I think the front surface of the RPTV's screen could with a simple polarizer aligned to the laser's polarized light orientation which should reject over 50% or ambient light while reflecting close to 100% of the projected light. My polarizer assumptions may be 180 degrees out, or totally out in left field...

Just a couple of guesses about why it's worth developing the laser driven DLP set.

The prospect of Laser TV has intrigued me for a while now, along with SED. They bragged all along that you could get one with double the colors and perfect blacks for much cheaper than Plasma/LCD in 2007. But now they are planning to release it in another year and for more than a flat panel LCD!?!? With Dark plasmas on the way and SED still a possibility, not worth the wait...

If they deliver a great picture and 65" + sizing at 10" thick ,I think they will sell a ton of them around said quoted price

With Dark plasmas on the way and SED still a possibility, not worth the wait...

I agree, I don't see there being a big market for laser RPTV unless they undercut plasma by a fair margin. It was stated by Novalux last year that the laser light setup could be produced in volume for 50% of the cost of the typical DLP light engine. I hope they can be produced for that price point.

Keep in mind they are getting rid of quite a few parts in the light path. If this is true, we shouldn't see a huge of a jump in price. If they can keep the 10" depth at 65" and keep the price $1-2K below comparable LCD and Plasma offerings we might see these hang around for a while. Keep in mind 65" Plasma is around $6500-9000, 65" LCD is around $5500 (all these have contrast ratios in the 5-10K range), while Sony's 70" LCD is $32,999.00. Not sure on the picture from the Sony 70", but the 65" aren't exactly cutting edge in contrast or color reproduction. The current Mitsubishi's 65" DPL set runs $1800 or so, seems they should be able to undercut LCD and Plasma on price.

I'd also be skeptical of the pricing quote from Wired: "The Lasers will be released late this year, around Black Friday, and will retail over the price of current LCDs. " Since Wired didn't get the size of the TV they were looking at correct, (All the Laser sets in the room were 65" not 50" as stated in the Wired article.) what are the chances they didn't goof on the pricing info? My guess is the quote should have been "and will retail over the price of current DLPs."? Could very well be wrong.

Also Keep in mind Mitsubishi skipped LED DLP development and went straight for laser. Seems they bet big, I'm guessing they see potential or they would have just went LED like Samsung. Can't imagine they goofed so much on costs that it will make their set retail 4x times what it currently does.

Updated with PC World's impressions, they confirm high-end pricing, have a look.

I am disappointed in the lack of details from the CES demo. It appears that they were just showing prototypes, while real products are still a long way off. The dancing girls in the gizmodo photos were tacky and shouldn't have been needed if the product itself was impressive. And if the real products are not priced LOWER than comparably sized flat panels, then I don't think they will sell.

The following article also raises questions about Arasor:
http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Industry/K9N8B6D6?page=1

I'm hopeful that laser TV can live up to it's promises, but I remain skeptical at this point.

i am excited about the technology , very unhappy with the price. todays times all anyone cares about is the mighty dollar. what a shame.

Clearly at some point they got greedy. Now they sound really high priced!

no dought i want one of these and have been waiting for one , but for me just like lcds if it is too exspensive i wont buy. instead i will give my money to samsung and get one of there led rp tv's. i hope mits doesnt go the sony way and try to rape all the consumers with their overly priced bullshit products.

Is Mitsubishi god damn serious? $33,000 for a RPTV which still has overscan? Mitsubishi needs to cut back on the saki and not stop eating tainted fugu so they quit being so delirious!

Source?

Huge letdown. No model details, uncertain release date and from all accounts the price is going to be a major joke (same price as a similarly sized plasma or LCD? Give me a break). Adding a laser lightsource adds 3000 to the price of a DLP? I was expecting a premium, but nothing like that.

If that is the case why even bother?

Wasn't there talk of laser TV at least 2 CESs ago? I know I have seen articles from last year at a minimum. I have to agree with most of the others here. This was rather disappointing. Sony dropped the 70" RP SXRD, laser TV is going to compete in the flat panel price range and the newer DLP technologies are not going to make it in until 2009. It looks like I need to change my plans.

I was hoping to hear about some RPTV larger than 73" this CES. It doesn't look like that is going to happen either. My room won't allow for a front projector, maybe a short throw projector? I may just have to settle for watching a 65" TV from 15' away.

Other than pricing and thickness, it sounds like they have a winner on their hands. Of course either of those could reduce this technology to nothing more than an electronic Edsel.

I think the bigger of the two (and the real killer) is price. If they price this above 65" LCD, I fear it's gonna be dead before it arrives.

It seems 65" LCD lists for $19,999 (NEC LCD6520), $7999 - $9999 (Sharp Aquos LC-65D64U and LC65D93U), $6999 (Olevia 265TFHD) and The current 65" Mitsu DLP (WD-65833) lists for $3999.

As for street prices, LC-65D64 (LCD) is around $5600 -30% discount, and the WD-65833 (DLP) can be had for $2600 a -35% discount. Not sure where this quote puts the price... "and will retail over the price of current LCDs. ". This would seems to indicate it will list for something like $7500-$10500, that would put the street price between $4900 and $6700 if it follows current Mitsu DLP pricing. Not going to shake up the playing field at that price.

Maybe this pricing quote is based on the this from Mitsu's vice president of marketing, Frank DeMartin, "This year, 73 is the new 65". Could they mean the 73" laser DLP will sell for morethan the current 65" LCD? I know... doubtful.

they need to get a 73 inch out at sub $4,000 in price in order to really compete. or keep it at the same price as the 73833. i'll buy it for sure, any higher than that and its too costly. i think its very late in the game to sell such a set at a high price, this isnt the 80's to mid 90s. i mean come on look at the 9mm deep kuro with infinite an contrast ratio thats coming in 09. and the thin flat screens that are coming out this year.

More of the same, but new: http://asia.cnet.com/ces/08/0,3800010114,62036323,00.htm

I noticed that Mitsubishi launched a site specifically for their laser tv line. You can register for updates when they become available. So far there's not much content, just alot of "Coming Soon"s here and there..

http://believingisseeing.tv

So far I'm extremely dissapointed in all the latest news. I'm wondering if maybe Mitsubishi's kinda "shot themselves in the foot" with hese new sets. They spent all these years coming up with this new technology, and all this money. Maybe theyre coming to late to the table with it to be able recoup all that time and money spent. So to compensate theyre having to raise the prices of the set's much more than they had maybe planned due to all this, and as a result of this, they loose their appeal that they worked so hard to achieve. I mean come on, people primarily choose RPTV's due to their affordability in the larger sizes. If you sell em at much higher prices than what people are used to paying, you could lose a large share of the consumer market.

But so far there's been no official pricing and release dates, so let's just all hope for the best that all this talk is a bunch of speculation :)

I noticed that Mitsubishi launched a site specifically for their laser tv line. You can register for updates when they become available. So far there's not much content, just alot of "Coming Soon"s here and there..

http://believingisseeing.tv


Good find, and added!

The site makes it even clearer that they are still working on it all, no product pics, faqs, why else launch an empty site for CES?

This apparent new high price strategy takes many out of the buyer's list, including me. I would just buy a great projector for the money instead.

New pics: http://dvice.com/archives/2008/01/ces_best_mitsub.php

Well the quote saying it will be priced higher than current LCD technology is disappointing.



Maybe they meant current LCD RPTV technology. I don't see how Mitsubishi can brag about it costing less than current DLP to produce and then say it will cost the same as a 65" flat screen LCD (7-10K). The only other explanation and I think is probably the case here is that the Lasers are not ready for mass production and the supply will be extremely low in the beginning. This Laser DLP from Mitsubishi has been delayed quite a few times and it still won't be hitting stores until Fall 2008. There is clearly a production issue and the high price might reflect the small number of sets that will be available.

At least compare apples to apples. The laser tv is 65 inches, not 70. Compare it to a 6-7 thousand dollar tv.

I don't understanf why you are now speaking of a very big price, considering that the news on the first post is : $2,197.00 USD for the 65inch Mitsu.
Several month ago Mitsu spoke of a price of around 2000USD...
and the laser has always been presented as a way to lower the price a the display device.

Regards
Nicolas

^^^^^ I agree. Yeah, I may choose a different type at 2200. But where are you getting these 6k-7k figures from?

I don't understanf why you are now speaking of a very big price, considering that the news on the first post is : $2,197.00 USD for the 65inch Mitsu.
Several month ago Mitsu spoke of a price of around 2000USD...
and the laser has always been presented as a way to lower the price a the display device.

Regards
Nicolas

All you have to do is read the first post, hell, it's even in bold!

"they'll only be available through high-end retailers" + " and will retail over the price of current LCDs" = ?

All you have to do is read the first post, hell, it's even in bold!

"they'll only be available through high-end retailers" + " and will retail over the price of current LCDs" = ?

OK, so there is 2 différents sources for a estimated price. Around 2000$ from one source and "over the price of current LCDs"...
Perhaps we can wait to sell a real and official annoucment BEFORE speculating more. Some are speaking of 6000$, some of 30000$, why not 1 millions... :rolleyes:
...we will see.

regards
Nicolas

OK, so there is 2 différents sources for a estimated price. Around 2000$ from one source and "over the price of current LCDs"...
Perhaps we can wait to sell a real and official annoucment BEFORE speculating more. Some are speaking of 6000$, some of 30000$, why not 1 millions... :rolleyes:
...we will see.

regards
Nicolas

Yup, and if you looked at the source of the $2000 price, it was from 2006...

Yup, and if you looked at the source of the $2000 price, it was from 2006...

Yes I know, there is a lot of new tech, which were supposed to be less pricy than old tech, and which are not. We will see. Personnaly I'm more waiting a DILA/Laser front projector.

You have to admit than the source "over the price of current LCDs" could mean a lot different thing.

Regards
Nicolas

Yes I know, there is a lot of new tech, which were supposed to be less pricy than old tech, and which are not. We will see. Personnaly I'm more waiting a DILA/Laser front projector.

You have to admit than the source "over the price of current LCDs" could mean a lot different thing.

Regards
Nicolas

You mean they could mean it will be less than the current price of LCDs? What else could that mean? I wanted it to be inexpensive too, but no room for false hope there that I see.

A Laser Projector would be amazing, anything to lose the bulbs you have to replace yearly. I wonder if a Lifi projector might not be in the works.

;) Mitsubishi has always been a preminium brand thats been targeted to the upscale consumer.

Offering a preminium priced, high tech, laser powered, 3D capable, big screen TV...

fits their marketing profile.

Prices should fall, after the first year's production, but expect early units to be expensive. Hhmmm... you might also expect a few gremlins with the early units too.

Personally, I would wait for the 2nd generation... before jumping.

Sound and Vision speculates that the 65" Mits laser set will retail for $5,500.

Article here. (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2587/laser-vision.html)

Other details. Laser to last life of set. (20 years mentioned!?) Less than 10" thick. Wall-mountable.

If true, that's a yes please from me.

Prices should fall, after the first year's production, but expect early units to be expensive. Hhmmm... you might also expect a few gremlins with the early units too.

Personally, I would wait for the 2nd generation... before jumping.

They don't even come out for a year, then 2nd gen possibly cheaper a year after that...my point exactly. Puts this TV out of many people's immediate purchase plans.

Better tech is coming sooner that will likely be comparable and cheaper.

Sound and Vision speculates that the 65" Mits laser set will retail for $5,500.

Article here. (http://www.soundandvisionmag.com/features/2587/laser-vision.html)

Other details. Laser to last life of set. (20 years mentioned!?) Less than 10" thick. Wall-mountable.

If true, that's a yes please from me.

Wait, read again: "My guess is that the 65-inch set they demonstrated will sell for around $5,500." That's about as a good as a weather forecaster.

And who wants a 10" thick TV mounted on their wall?

They don't even come out for a year, then 2nd gen possibly cheaper a year after that...my point exactly. Puts this TV out of many people's immediate purchase plans.

Better tech is coming sooner that will likely be comparable and cheaper.



Wait, read again: "My guess is that the 65-inch set they demonstrated will sell for around $5,500." That's about as a good as a weather forecaster.

And who wants a 10" thick TV mounted on their wall?

they had 2 or 3 different 65 inch laser sets

one was the normal one
the 3d on was the diamond (obviously)

any news from ces on the mitz 3d bluray player yet?

they had 2 or 3 different 65 inch laser sets

one was the normal one
the 3d on was the diamond (obviously)

I have never read that the 3 were different than eachother in any way, I must have missed that. Where did you read that part?

Thanks.

they had 2 or 3 different 65 inch laser sets

one was the normal one
the 3d on was the diamond (obviously)

;) That's been Mit's SOP... since they first offered crt/wide screen projectors back in the early 1980's.

Diamond has been their "Preminium Level" offering additional "Bells & Whistles".

Like with entirely new car models... any brand new HDTV technology will have "teething problems"... and Mit's been famous lately... letting their customers do the "Beta Testing".

Wait, read again: "My guess is that the 65-inch set they demonstrated will sell for around $5,500." That's about as a good as a weather forecaster.
And that's as good as we've got in this here thread. ;)

I have never read that the 3 were different than eachother in any way, I must have missed that. Where did you read that part?

Thanks.

most articles said they had one 3d set on display (and usually mits has multiple models of each size) i guess maybe all are 3d, but the diamond will have realD processing and 240hz

did mits show off or talk about the 3d bluray player they are supposed to be selling?

I don't understanf why you are now speaking of a very big price, considering that the news on the first post is : $2,197.00 USD for the 65inch Mitsu.

Regards
Nicolas

If you read the articles linked to on the first post, you'll see that the "Laser TV unveiled in Australia" article By Jeremy Roche on 11 October 2006 quotes Novalux (the company developing the actual lasers) as saying "Laser televisions will be in shops in time for Christmas 2007," and "a 65-inch model will cost around AU$2,500". Not what I would call a reliable source for pricing information on what Mitusbishi is going to have to sell the set for. Not sure where Gerry Block at IGN got the $1000 price by the end of the year from. He published on January 4, 2008 but didn't quote any source.

Don't get me wrong, I hope It's $1000 to $3000, and not $5000 to $7000. But the 2 quotes after CES indicating pricing are; "I was told that you won't see the Laser TVs at your Best Buys and Circuit Citys. Rather, they'll only be available through high-end retailers." and "They will be released late this year, around Black Friday, and will retail over the price of current LCDs". The newer pricing indications seem to indicate they won't be $1000 or even $2500 this year.

most articles said they had one 3d set on display (and usually mits has multiple models of each size) i guess maybe all are 3d, but the diamond will have realD processing and 240hz

One 3D set doesn't tell us much, certainly not that there were any other differeces between them such as size.

If Sammy can sell LED at big box, what is so magical about laser that it will only be at high-end. Maybe they will start that way, but as RPTV market share continues to drop, it will be everywhere.

This is interesting: http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Industry/D4G3S2B2
"Australian light source-maker, Arasor -- the company behind laser TV technology – has bought-out its Silicon Valley technology partner Novalux as part of a joint venture with China’s largest telecommunications provider to make laser TV available to the masses."

What are the implications of that?

Also interesting:
"Chinese development company SYCO is already selling laser TVs in its home country, however at a massive 120 inches"

I cannot believe the amount of misinformation in this thread.

I cannot believe the amount of misinformation in this thread.

Do share...

This is interesting: http://www.smarthouse.com.au/TVs_And_Large_Display/Industry/D4G3S2B2
"Australian light source-maker, Arasor -- the company behind laser TV technology – has bought-out its Silicon Valley technology partner Novalux as part of a joint venture with China’s largest telecommunications provider to make laser TV available to the masses."

What are the implications of that?

Also interesting:
"Chinese development company SYCO is already selling laser TVs in its home country, however at a massive 120 inches" Novalux is now outsourcing Necsel wafer processing to large-capacity contract manufacturers in Taiwan and has sold its Sunnyvale wafer fabrication facility to an undisclosed Silicon Valley company. Combine this with a majority share purchase from a Chinese telecommunication company and it doesn't do much for the consumer right now. Until these devices actually are incorporated into display vendors products that are shipping this topic is just a bunch of hot air IMHO.

New news from IGN: http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844527p1.html
"pricing would be equivalent to flat panel displays of the same size, which means around $5k to $7k. That's a far cry from previous comments (http://gear.ign.com/articles/738/738336p1.html) from Novalux (designer of the RGB lasers in the displays) that the technology would cost only half as much as alternate HDTV technologies. Mitsubishi is apparently banking on the high end for the initial launch of Laser HDTV, though it'll be interesting to see what traction the company can gain in a market that is increasingly favoring hang on the wall flat panels."

Given the higher anticipated price, the lack of specs, and the constant "in the future" promises, I can't see any real advantage to laser over LED other than the "cool" factor and the claim to create more colors than LED (which already goes beyond readily available sources). Considering the simplicity, higher level of development, performance of current and prototype displays, and lower price of LED sets, something would have to change significantly to make me seriously look at lasers.

Add in the fact that PhlatLight LED's are designed, engineered and manufactured in the US by a US-owned company- and it pretty much seals the deal. I'm not a blind patriot willing to buy an inferior product because of national origin, but I do prefer to buy American- especially when the product is superior.
http://www.luminus.com/content1029

I have problems with a couple of the reviewers statements about colors being extraordinary. My biggest problem is they had nothing to compare it to. I for one watch my Pioneer every day but I could still go to a store and see something with a vivid blue for example and won't remember exactly the way my Pioneer looked. If the colors were that much better you would've thought Mits would have had a current high end LCD or plasma to compare it to. Nothing mentioned has impressed me quite yet but I will definitely want to check one out.

I also hope they are using different screens in the laser TVs than on current microdisplays. Carrying over SSE to this technology would be an awful shame!

For this TV to sell well with price tags similar to plasmas and LCDs the PQ is going to have to significantly outdo both. If it is I'll make the swithc as I'm all about PQ and not the technology. However, the general public (especially women), are stuck on a flat panel.

New news from IGN: http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844527p1.html
"pricing would be equivalent to flat panel displays of the same size, which means around $5k to $7k. That's a far cry from previous comments (http://gear.ign.com/articles/738/738336p1.html) from Novalux (designer of the RGB lasers in the displays) that the technology would cost only half as much as alternate HDTV technologies. Mitsubishi is apparently banking on the high end for the initial launch of Laser HDTV, though it'll be interesting to see what traction the company can gain in a market that is increasingly favoring hang on the wall flat panels."Mitsubishi did something similar when they came out with their 82" Alpha LCoS RPTV at $20,000+. That was the end of LCoS for Mitsubishi. The set was massive, 500lbs, and didn't sell at 25% of the introductory price.

I don't think a RPTV can compete with flat panel sets at the same price point unless the performance is vastly better. At this point in time "vastly better" is hard to come by.

My wife was recently given the choice of a 60" RPTV set at $2,250 and a 60" Kuro plasma at $4,500. PQ wasn't an issue for her. She went with the plasma. Guess why. ;)

This LaserTV will be not better in picture quality than existing Samsung LEDDLP 3D RPTV;) Compare Phatlight LED 120.000 hour vs 30.000 of laser.

New news: http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/will-laser-tvs-be-the-next-big-thing/
Frank DeMartin, general manager of Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America says only that: "it'll be competitive with flat panel prices"

I'm waiting to see what Samsung has out when the Laser comes from Mits. First one with good off angle viewing, cable card slot, long life (20 year) light source, low motion artifacts (wasn't impressed with the Samsung I saw at BB) around 61" and under 2500, and can go in an entertainement center without a platform hanging out the front will be what shows up in my house. 3D is cool, but going to be expected in these TVs now.

Samsung 6187/9 doesn't make it for off angle viewing, cable card or motion artifacts yet, but the rest will work and if they improve the set to have those before the Laser hits the market - it's got a good chance of being my next RPTV

I'm waiting to see what Samsung has out when the Laser comes from Mits. First one with good off angle viewing, cable card slot, long life (20 year) light source, low motion artifacts (wasn't impressed with the Samsung I saw at BB) around 61" and under 2500, and can go in an entertainement center without a platform hanging out the front will be what shows up in my house. 3D is cool, but going to be expected in these TVs now.

Samsung 6187/9 doesn't make it for off angle viewing, cable card or motion artifacts yet, but the rest will work and if they improve the set to have those before the Laser hits the market - it's got a good chance of being my next RPTV
i am also debating the sammy . i am a mits fan ,but i like what samsung has been doing lately i will probably buy sammys new led tv if mits cant meet my needs. also i found that samsung has a sharper pic compared to this years ( 07) mits models.

Originally posted by srode1: long life (20 year)

Is that really a selling feature with any TV anymore? My TV is 3 years old and I am looking to trade up.

As for the price quotes being close to flat panels; if true, I will be looking at the Panasonic Plasma 65" first. Both Mits a Panny sell through Direct Buy, I will see what looks best and what is the better deal.

More details (kind of)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/will-laser-tvs-be-the-next-big-thing/

More details (kind of)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/will-laser-tvs-be-the-next-big-thing/"Either way, we'll have to wait until some unknown time this year to see if the laser TV can live up to the hype, but with what we know right now, we're not sold just yet."

Wise words when a company presents a prototype with hype and no detail information. :eek:

More details (kind of)

http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/will-laser-tvs-be-the-next-big-thing/

See post 107, but thanks.

I have been watching, have not seen anything new worth posting.

Not entirely sure how it works, but the picture quality on the 65-inch Laser TV is stunning and produces twice the color of HDTVs today. It’s the first of its kind in terms of laser tech and it also does 3D ala Real D. The Laser TV is also said to be energy efficient, but there aren’t any stats on it. Details are limited and a launch date has not been set another than a vague date of later this year. I overheard a buyer or someone close to the dealings of the TV say the set would retail for $1,800.
http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/08...ocks-my-socks/

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/08...ocks-my-socks/

I clicked this url and came back "not found". What was in it?

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/01/08/mitsubishi-laser-tv-rocks-my-socks/

fixed link

So now the price is back down to $1,800 for the 65".

Great price if they can ramp up production and get them out the door. This might be a good quote too. The previous quote that placed the price up there with LCD panels also stated a Black Friday launch, but contradicted itself by indicating that it wouldn't be a BB or CC launch but would instead by sold by custom installers. Custom installers don't do Black Friday. If they want to win against panels they are going to have to keep the price low to balance out the tabletop design.

"I overheard a buyer or someone close to the dealings of the TV say", c'mon. That's worthless, he might have heard some dorky kid saying he read it in this forum, LOL

FWIW: Mitsubishi is not using Novalux lasers in their TV.

This review shows the potential for Mits Laser TV available spring 2008. I would love to see the consumer model later this year.

http://gizmodo.com/342045/mitsubishi-laser-tvs-colors-look-even-juicier-than-the-girls-on-the-set

this would be nice , if the price is right . from what the pics show i like what i see especially the new cabinet.

I hope Mitsubishi fixes there customer support and the quality of there products

I hope Mitsubishi fixes there customer support and the quality of their semi nude SHOWGIRLS
I couldn't agree more.

Sorry.... couldn't resist.

I've been holding off for the launch of Laser TV and I am going to give it a few more months for more information about pricing and release dates.
I was hoping for more "details" but this CES has been a bust in terms of new TV tech for me. :(

http://www.itwire.com/content/view/16047/1103/
"Laser TVs are set to be sold in high-end AV retail stores only, at least to start with, it’ll clearly be some time before they’re on sale in stores like WalMart.

Will Laser TV come down in price fast enough, and get wide enough global distribution, to become a real threat to LCD and plasma TVs?

After all, both plasma and LCD TV are today quite mature technologies which are rapidly coming down in price, and with every new generation increase their own specifications, capabilities and colour display capabilities.

Given the true launch date for Laser TV is late 2008, and at least 2009 for the rest of the world, plasma and LCD TV remain, at least for now, at the top of the televisual heap."

Have any members at the Show reported back viewing angles and sweet spot like many RPTV's require. This picture I came across at a Japan site seems to have viewing angles like a plasma or LCD. Would be great to get the size a laser spot on PQ without losing it vertical or from the side. If it were to match what I'm reading I certainly would pay $5K for it - hell guys I was here for the madness of the Q006 where they were all sold for $13K and no discount and with a waiting list. My limit is around $7K (unless it comes with 3D Porn star kit);) but I would doubt this technology would be selling in the less than $3K range when they will have the only game in town for Laser TV and Sony, Toshiba, and half a dozen others having abandoned RPTV.

This pic does demonstrate just how different the results can be from one photographer to another as many I've seen posted aren't that good.

http://techon.nikkeibp.co.jp/english/NEWS_EN/20080109/145125/viA.jpg

Is that really a selling feature with any TV anymore? My TV is 3 years old and I am looking to trade up.
My Toshiba Bigscreen is 11 1/2 years old and running strong still - no problems! Just bought a plasma this year for another room. I'll keep the Toshiba for use in another area when I purchase the next set and hope to get another 5 or more years out of it. For me, I expect them to last a very long time without needing service/repair. Hearing my Dad had to replace is Mits DLP bulb after 3 years haskept me from considering a DLP till now. (fortunately he had extended warranty which covered it).

I'm all for more choices so I'm glad Mits is trying out lasers. I have no issue with RPTV as long as they offer them in sizes bigger than the standard 65"-70" plasmas and LCDs. I'd love to see an 80" high quality picture that doesn't require a projector. I'm not against projectors but like many people a projector isn't always going to work in your environment as an ideal solution. Again I have seen some fantastic projectors that I wish I could affor and afford a theater room to go with it but I've also seen a lot of $10K or less projectors that didn't give me any similar feelings.

I think it is great that there are more choices for those wanting a technology that fits their price, size and PQ requirements. From what I hear, the laser mits looks very good - so if they release an 80" mits laser I will definitely check it out so I can replace my 65" older TV with something bigger, 1080p and with HDMI inputs. My TV still looks great (CRT RPTV) but I would like something bigger and with a few new features but it has to look AT LEAST as good as my TV and other than the KURO, I don't see a lot of TV sets that blow me away (and even the KURO isn't perfect but it is VERY NICE).

I'm all for more choices so I'm glad Mits is trying out lasers. I have no issue with RPTV as long as they offer them in sizes bigger than the standard 65"-70" plasmas and LCDs. I'd love to see an 80" high quality picture that doesn't require a projector. I'm not against projectors but like many people a projector isn't always going to work in your environment as an ideal solution. Again I have seen some fantastic projectors that I wish I could affor and afford a theater room to go with it but I've also seen a lot of $10K or less projectors that didn't give me any similar feelings.

I think it is great that there are more choices for those wanting a technology that fits their price, size and PQ requirements. From what I hear, the laser mits looks very good - so if they release an 80" mits laser I will definitely check it out so I can replace my 65" older TV with something bigger, 1080p and with HDMI inputs. My TV still looks great (CRT RPTV) but I would like something bigger and with a few new features but it has to look AT LEAST as good as my TV and other than the KURO, I don't see a lot of TV sets that blow me away (and even the KURO isn't perfect but it is VERY NICE).


Just out of curiousity, what's your current CRT RPTV that you have? I have a Toshiba 65H81 that I bought new that I am wanting to get rid of for something new.

The LA times has a short video and article up on CES.

There was another company showing off a prototype Laser TV. Obviously not anywhere near complete the 72 inch set was 20 inches deep, compared to Mitsubishis 10 inches deep for a 65 incher.

In an unassuming section of a hotel mini-ballroom, SpectronIQ 3D Inc., which specializes in 3D technology for gaming, had on view a laser TV showing the Tim Burton version of "Charlie and the Chocolate Factory."

The picture was in living color, as they used to say on TV, but this time it rang true.

On a laser TV, the turquoise uniforms of the Oompa Loompas, rowing down a river of luscious-looking chocolate, were electric. Their sea-horse boat was detailed almost to a fault: Telltale signs of special effects work weren't entirely hidden.

But the enrichment of colors was only the first thing to dazzle the viewer. The eyes of the actors were luminous. The overall effect was sensual.

Regarding the Mitsubishi Laser tv.

Although a side-by-side comparison wasn't possible, the images on the Mitsubishi set looked pretty darned astonishing.

At angled viewing, the quality remained relatively undistorted and there was no window-screen effect that mars some other big-screen technologies when watched up close.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cest...dlines-business (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cestv13jan13,1,2363819.story?coll=la-headlines-business)

An RPTV that is on par with current flat panel prices is pretty silly IMO. Don't get me wrong, I prefer RPTV to the majority of flat panels, but in the average consumers eyes, the ONLY advantage to RPTV is cost, and giving up that advantage will be a step backwards.

If I am going to spend $5k for a 50"+ TV, I will get a Kuro. Why even consider a RPTV at that price? Plus to buy another high-price set from Mitsubishi after buying one of their '04 DLPs would be a ridiculous mistake on my part... their customer service and willingness to stand by the product they sell is poor at best.

If I am going to spend $5k for a 50"+ TV, I will get a Kuro. Why even consider a RPTV at that price?


Laser light shows roughly 90% of the color the human eye can see.

Plasma phosphors roughly 30% of the color.


Plasma sets degrade with use, the vibrance of a plasma set will fade away.

Laser light sources will remain as bright and colorful as day the you purchased it.

Well said..

Laser light shows roughly 90% of the color the human eye can see.

Plasma phosphors roughly 30% of the color.


Plasma sets degrade with use, the vibrance of a plasma set will fade away.

Laser light sources will remain as bright and colorful as day you purchased it.

I can go out and buy the Kuro today... two years down the road, if the laser based set is still $5k, the perceived adavantages are still not worth it. Trust me, I like RPTV, but it would naive to think that it can compete with flat panels at the same price.

Trust me, I like RPTV, but it would naive to think that it can compete with flat panels at the same price.

Laser TV will attract intrest because the color reproduction is high quality and way beyond other technologies. Nothing comes close to laser light sources.

From the Popular Science blog.

Color Burns Bright With Mitsubishi's Laser TV

Those mad scientists at Mitsubishi have built the ultimate entertainment weapon—the laser TV! Lasers shooting out of a television screen isn’t as scary as it may sound. But it does have one big benefit-color.

Lasers can be tuned to the exact wavelength of light you like—down to the nanometer. So TV makers can produce the ideal shades of red, green, and blue to produce the best colors possibly. Mitsubishi claims this allows them to reproduce about 80 percent of all the colors humans can see—versus about 40 percent for other TVs.

Is all that true? I can’t say for sure, but I know that colors were stunning. And maybe I just had too many cocktails at the launch party, but I think I saw colors that I hadn’t seen before on a TV.

In a clip from Moulin Rouge, for example, the yellows in the dancer’s dresses and in their makeup were virtually luminescent. Same for the falling yellow leaves in the great girl-on-girl battle from Hero. In Star Wars’ final encounter between Anakin and Obi Wan, the light sabers glowed a fluorescent blue that I don’t think I saw in the theater.


Seeing red, and red, and red

And then there’s the reds. Mitsubishi was tight-lipped about every single technical detail of the TV, but I’m pretty sure they are proudest of the reds. Almost every scene they showed on the set was saturated in crimson—be it the lava planet from Star Wars, the all-red sequence from Hero or the rouge in Moulin. And that’s significant, because red has generally been the hardest color for TVs to produce properly.


http://popsci.typepad.com/popsci/2008/01/mu-ha-ha-ha-las.html

http://popsci.typepad.com/photos/uncategorized/2008/01/09/second.jpg

Taken from the same Popular Science article

"Mitsubishi says you can buy the new set by the end of the year. They aren’t revealing the cost, but a marketing guy told me their 50-inch model would compete with 65-inch LCD TVs, which run around $6000. Will folks pay more money for a fatter TV, just for the color?"

6K for a 50", that's way more than the, "cost will compare to similar sized flat panels" quote that was going around. DLP is still using wobulation to get 1080P, correct? Looks like I need to start focusing on something else.

Lets hope that marketing guy was drunk.

Why would you not expect it to be expensive?

Why would you not expect it to be expensive?

Expensive, yes.. 6k for a 50 inch? No. I can digest that price for a 65, but not 50.

Expensive, yes.. 6k for a 50 inch? No. I can digest that price for a 65, but not 50.

dunno if i could be cool wit that price even for 65 inches. i mean u ca get a 65 inch for less tha 3k now and 60 for less than 2k. if they can get a 73 inch for under 5k im soldthough. 4k would be perfect. its going t b hard to market a tv that big to the masses because the want thin and flat to put on wall. and ya these can be wall mounted but would still be too big for those people.

hope they are just holding out til may or summer for announcing price so they just dont kil their current systems sales. i just dont wanna see them shoot themselves in the foot by announcing an insane price tag for a rptv. (2-5 years ago maybe, but not now.)


if these can be 4-5k for a 73 inch ill buy one wiht a 3d bluray player :) and get me a 7.1 surround sound system. then grab a wii and 360 andim happy. ill hook my pc to it for gaming as well :)

As far as video games go, they should show off at least one crazy colorful one, like Super Stardust HD or WipeoutHD for the PS3. Afterall people like to both game on their TV's and watch movies.

Why would you not expect it to be expensive?

I was expecting it to be at ~80% the cost of the market leaders. I was assuming they would want to recapture some market share from LCD and Plasma. Not just gain a niche market group but try to become the mainstream system. Then again, starting small and maturing the technology resulting in future price reductions can be expected too.

I was just taken aback by it being estimated to be more expensive than the market leaders. Who knows? Until it is in retail stores and available for purchase it is all up in the air. I am still very interested in the unit. I can't wait until the television specs are revealed. I just hope it survives long enough that I can actually afford it. :D

Laser light shows roughly 90% of the color the human eye can see.

Plasma phosphors roughly 30% of the color.


Plasma sets degrade with use, the vibrance of a plasma set will fade away.

Laser light sources will remain as bright and colorful as day the you purchased it.

I'll believe it when I see it. I've learned over the years that these companies like to stretch the truth.

I remember from CES "The SXRD's have CRT-like black levels". Ha, gimme a break! And the Kuros were supposed to deliver pure black levels in a darkened room. Guess what? They don't. They are really good, but there is an obvious glow to them and there's definitely room for improvement.

My point is this, take what the marketers push with a grain of salt. I'm a fan or PQ and not the technology. If laser is THAT good, i'll bite if the price is right. Until then it's just all hype for me.

I have trouble imagining how it can be that good. We have yet to see what the caveats to the technology are as it ends up being applied. I hope for Mitsubishi's sake that it is great and highly reliable. This could be their last shot at regaining their position as a leader in the market.

Originally Posted by lcaillo
Why would you not expect it to be expensive?

Because it's only 50". Does adding a laser light source really cost $4K more. I can get a 60" Sony A3000 for under $2K. I can get a 60" plasma for $6K.

So I contact MDEA support asking when the Laser DLP's will be available. This is the response I received:

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:

The laser TV will be arriving early summer.

MDEA Service

Maybe it's just me but if they were able to release the Laser TV this spring...... they would.
Pretty much everyone is pulling out of rear projection and if they had a product now they would release it soon before rear projection dies.
If they really think they can get away with the "leaked" prices being that high, even with the great picture, I think they will fail. I mean, I would love a nice 60" Kuro but that kind of price is too high for me. I'd bet that most new models nowadays sell somewhere in the $2k - $3k range.
I am still going to wait till they announce some more concrete pricing and see some real world comparisons but...... we shall see.
imho

Originally posted flash84:
If they really think they can get away with the "leaked" prices being that high, even with the great picture, I think they will fail. I mean, I would love a nice 60" Kuro but that kind of price is too high for me.

My wife would kill me if I even suggested paying that much for a TV. I could probably get away with $3K-$4K, closer to 3. I am not going to pay 300% premium over other DLPs to say I have a laser TV. Especially if they are still wobulating DLP. Does anybody know if it's true 1080P or not?

It is just a DLP. When it is released RP DLP will come in 3 flavors - lamp, LED, and laser. Having a laser light source will not add much to the fabrication price. They are just getting greedy. You can be greedy when you dominate the market, not when you are a has-been. Besides, there is only room for one Sony in the market. The fact of the matter is that laser RPTV cannot command the same price as flat panels. Half the price is image, have is style. RPTV has no style and the image isn't going to be that much better. Mitsubishi should release them at a hair over the price of the next generation Samsung LEDs. Samsung is frequently found discounted, so they may lose the head-to-head comparison when the LED version is almost identical at a third the price. But ultimately it is Mitsubishi's decision. Personally, the more I think about it, the more I want a laser projector.

If Mits' claim is release around Black Friday, don't hold your breadth. it could easily extend to 1 1/2 years if problems arise. This is where the big uncertainty is. (The price will have to depend on what LCDs and Plasmas will cost THEN.)

I do wonder what happened to Samsung, though. Why did they not try for Laser? Or newer, thinner, and better LED models? The current ones reviewed fairly badly compared to their UHP cousins.

/iaw

It is just a DLP. When it is released RP DLP will come in 3 flavors - lamp, LED, and laser. Having a laser light source will not add much to the fabrication price. They are just getting greedy. You can be greedy when you dominate the market, not when you are a has-been. Besides, there is only room for one Sony in the market. The fact of the matter is that laser RPTV cannot command the same price as flat panels. Half the price is image, have is style. RPTV has no style and the image isn't going to be that much better. Mitsubishi should release them at a hair over the price of the next generation Samsung LEDs. Samsung is frequently found discounted, so they may lose the head-to-head comparison when the LED version is almost identical at a third the price. But ultimately it is Mitsubishi's decision. Personally, the more I think about it, the more I want a laser projector.

Your assumption that the price should not be much different is a big one. There have obviously been issues with using a laser light source. Samsung bought its way into the DLP market with lower prices and the reslting problems with areas that Mits and others have avoided, e.g. color wheels and light tunnels, should point out that buying market share has its own price. Samsung and RCA have given the technology a black eye. Mitsbishi needs to get the performance right, make the set adjustable to HD standards, and needs to build it so that it is reliable and price it accordingly. If it is expensive but performs and holds up, they will be fine. If it has issues or the performance is not superb, it does not matter what the price is, they are in trouble.

I'll believe it when I see it. I've learned over the years that these companies like to stretch the truth.



Since the introduction of color CRT's, the color saturation level of displays technologies has pretty much been a flatline. Plasma uses similar phosphors as a CRT. With the arrival of LED backlit panels and OLED displays, the color increase got a very minor boost. Even if SED made it to market, it would've used phosphors just like CRT's and Plasma displays.


I'm looking forward to seeing a laser TV in person. I know with the Kuro, I certainly wasn't blown away.

How many of you feel that laser tv will provide a better picture than the New OLED panels. So far everything I have seen from Oled has been impressive. I curious once laser TV does make it to market, do any of you feel it could contend with the flat panal preformance of OLED becuase so far Oled has been pretty impressive and already being produced in market right now....

I curious once laser TV does make it to market, do any of you feel it could contend with the flat panal preformance of OLED becuase so far Oled has been pretty impressive and already being produced in market right now....I think Sony's OLED is 11". That's not much screen.

How many of you feel that laser tv will provide a better picture than the New OLED panels. So far everything I have seen from Oled has been impressive. I curious once laser TV does make it to market, do any of you feel it could contend with the flat panal preformance of OLED becuase so far Oled has been pretty impressive and already being produced in market right now....

New out of the box, I have no idea which would have a better picture. Laser is said to maintain it's picture quality over it's entire life; where I don't think OLED will.

"Mitsubishi says you can buy the new set by the end of the year. They aren’t revealing the cost, but a marketing guy told me their 50-inch model would compete with 65-inch LCD TVs, which run around $6000. Will folks pay more money for a fatter TV, just for the color?"

The marketing guy must be thinking it's a low volume prodcut then - there's not many people that will pay that much for a 50 inch TV - I don't care how good the color is - I know I won't. If it's not in line with other options it will be off my list of choices.

How many of you feel that laser tv will provide a better picture than the New OLED panels. So far everything I have seen from Oled has been impressive. I curious once laser TV does make it to market, do any of you feel it could contend with the flat panal preformance of OLED becuase so far Oled has been pretty impressive and already being produced in market right now....


OLED displays being released are active matrix just like LCD displays are. This means the OLED displays are a sample and hold, and will suffer from similar motion blur problems as a regular LCD.

Mitsubishi updated their FAQ.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

Comments on price: "Competively priced with similar sized flat panels"

Comments on price: "Competively priced with similar sized flat panels"

Then it looks like I will be buying a regular or LED DLP; I want around 70". I hope Samsung goes above 67" with the LED and it includes Darkchip4.

Then it looks like I will be buying a regular or LED DLP; I want around 70". I hope Samsung goes above 67" with the LED and it includes Darkchip4.

Mitsubishi updated their FAQ.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

Comments on price: "Competively priced with similar sized flat panels"


Yup, I guess u can count me out on getting a laser tv also, these new sammy's are looking more and more appealing. I mean sure the promise of Laser sounds great but not to justify these much higher prices.

I'd be kind of curious to see how many people would still be interested in buying 1 of these set's with all these new details out such as the pricing. Maybe someone should start a poll :)

being that samsung is gonna still come out with their lamp based dlps . does anyone know i mits is gonna still continue lamp based dlps other than laser?

What are the expect MSRP's on Samsung's '08 LED DLP's? If not, anyone recall the launch pricing on the '07 models?

Mitsubishi updated their FAQ.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

Comments on price: "Competively priced with similar sized flat panels"

Count me out as well which really destroys my options. Refuse to buy a Samsung. Flat Panel screens only go up so large and the largest are stupidly expensive. Unless prices start coming down and sizes start going up for LCD I guess I'll be at the mercy of my currently malfunctioning 61" samsung.

What are the expect MSRP's on Samsung's '08 LED DLP's? If not, anyone recall the launch pricing on the '07 models?

For 2007, the lists prices for the slim models were $2500-3200 for the 61" models. Overall, in 2007 the LED DLP tv's were priced approximately $300 more than the models in the same size with a traditional bulb- about the price of a new bulb, with better performance. These are volume products, and street prices are often much lower than the list.

I4U News had an interview with the Mitsubishi folks about their new LaserTV. They are still so tight-lipped about the details, don't know why they even bothered to give an interview. If I was the interviewer, I would have shook them senseless by the shoulders and told them to spit it out!

http://www.i4u.com/article14083.html

Mitsubishi updated their FAQ.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/faq.html

Comments on price: "Competively priced with similar sized flat panels"
That is the exact same comment as posted by the OP in his original post the day it was announced at CES.

this sucks i dont like that there holding info.

What would a "premium" 65 inch flat panel street for? Isn't Sharp's 65" about 7k street?

What would a "premium" 65 inch flat panel street for? Isn't Sharp's 65" about 7k street?

Soon to be three versions - D64 from Mexico can be had for close to $5K and the D93 around $6-7K from Japan and the newer D94 Special Edition (Japan) can be ordered for $7300 but it's brand new model debuting within the month at the top of the line for Sharp. So it depends on what their referencing some of the PDP's sell for much less in the 58" and 63" sizes.

being that samsung is gonna still come out with their lamp based dlps . does anyone know i mits is gonna still continue lamp based dlps other than laser?

I doubt Mitsubishi will continue with lamps. They're going to have a range of different sizes for the Laser TV's, so I would assume they'll solely focus production on laser models.

hey westa6969... how were you able to put an avatar up?

thanks in advance!

are the current models darkchip 3 ?

By having more than 1 post..


hey westa6969... how were you able to put an avatar up?

thanks in advance!

hey westa6969... how were you able to put an avatar up?

thanks in advance!You need to become an AVS Club Member (paying) member of AVS.

What is the viewing angle of these? That is why I hated DLP.

What is the viewing angle of these? That is why I hated DLP.

They'll be greatly improved. The laser light source is very bright, letting them use low gain screen material.

Although a side-by-side comparison wasn't possible, the images on the Mitsubishi set looked pretty darned astonishing.

At angled viewing, the quality remained relatively undistorted and there was no window-screen effect that mars some other big-screen technologies when watched up close.

LA Times article link (http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-cestv13jan13,1,2363819.story?coll=la-headlines-business&ctrack=1&cset=true)

just give me a 80 plus inch 4000k hdmi 1.34546f laser tv mitsu. Is that too much to ask for?

Originally posted by baddgsx:
just give me a 80 plus inch 4000k hdmi 1.34546f laser tv mitsu. Is that too much to ask for?

I would settle for the laser being inserted into the Diamond Line, if they really want to distinguish them from their other products, and they have a 73". I will would take that, but I not pay a large premium just to say I have a laser TV.

I would settle for the laser being inserted into the Diamond Line, if they really want to distinguish them from their other products, and they have a 73". I will would take that, but I not pay a large premium just to say I have a laser TV.

i think that would be great if they did that. replacing bulbs is not that big of a factor considering that im used to it by replacing bulbs for my saltwater reef tank.

dang... thanks though htwaits.

i think that would be great if they did that. replacing bulbs is not that big of a factor considering that im used to it by replacing bulbs for my saltwater reef tank.

while it may not seem like a big deal to replace a bulb, i would rather not ever having to worry about needing to be bothered with doing so. like say u are watching a football gaming or ufc or boxing or movie then right in the middle the lamp goes out . ya you might have a replacement bulb on hand, but by the time u replace it, the fight might be over, game pretty much downhill, or you are no longer able to just lose yourself in the movie anymore.

I've been waiting for so long to get an HD (yes, i'm still SD - no comments necessary from the peanut gallery). I was really looking forward to finding out what was being offered at CES this year, but i think it's just given me more questions though. The laser DLP (i was really hoping for a sony laser SXRD offering) looks nice, but they've provided no details, which to me is a very big red flag. If you truly have the best, let us know it. And i'm also a little surprised by the lack of reviews for the new laser. I don't think i've read one comment about viewing angle (i know they 'should' be good, but are they comparable to plasma).

So since there's no laser sxrd, here's some thoughts/questions i have. I'm mostly thinking out loud in case someone finds the info or wants to vent with me, so no need to answer, i know the info isn't out there - groan!:
- Mits hasn't released details. If the specs are so good, let us know. This is a pretty big red flag to me.
- Part of the reason i wanted a sony laser sxrd is for product quality reason. say what you will about sony, but their product quality is pretty good (when it actually works). I've never been impressed with Mits DLP. Yeah they're really big, but the quality almost always sucks.
- What are the viewing angles for this thing. Does it have the 'window' look of plasma or the rear projection look with regard to viewing angles.
- This is a first generation tv. What bugs will they be fixing in next years models?
- Price. C'mon... priced like a comparably sized LCD flatpanel?!?! I suspect(hope actually) that Mits is just putting out the 'feelers' on this one to see how the market responds and what they can get away with. My advice, if you really want to get market share and clean house make us an offer (a really really cheap one) we can't refuse. And we've already heard from novalux that the lasers aren't that much and the tv will be less since less optics will be needed.
- Shows 80% of what the eye can see, vivid colors etc... but how accurately does it show them (fingers crossed). I'm assuming it will need expensive calibration to bring out the best in the tv (like all others).
- Contrast ratio - this is one spec i was especially ticked they didn't talk about. I know it 'should' be high, but what is it (5K, 10K, 20K, etc...)??? C'mon, stop teasing us!
- A release date of 'later this year'. You just suck for saying that Mits. Give us something a little more solid and stick to it. (I also heard black friday, and even though i heard first half of 08 somewhere too).
- What the refresh rate - 60? 120? To quote the laser doc - throw us a fricken bone why don't ya!

My backup is a Kuro. They just look great! But man are they expensive and i was really set on something larger than 60". Oh well, i guess it's time to return to playing the waiting game for more information (thumbs twiddling), dang!

I've been waiting for so long to get an HD (yes, i'm still SD - no comments necessary from the peanut gallery). I was really looking forward to finding out what was being offered at CES this year, but i think it's just given me more questions though. The laser DLP (i was really hoping for a sony laser SXRD offering) looks nice, but they've provided no details, which to me is a very big red flag. If you truly have the best, let us know it. And i'm also a little surprised by the lack of reviews for the new laser. I don't think i've read one comment about viewing angle (i know they 'should' be good, but are they comparable to plasma).

So since there's no laser sxrd, here's some thoughts/questions i have. I'm mostly thinking out loud in case someone finds the info or wants to vent with me, so no need to answer, i know the info isn't out there - groan!:
- Mits hasn't released details. If the specs are so good, let us know. This is a pretty big red flag to me.
- Part of the reason i wanted a sony laser sxrd is for product quality reason. say what you will about sony, but their product quality is pretty good (when it actually works). I've never been impressed with Mits DLP. Yeah they're really big, but the quality almost always sucks.
- What are the viewing angles for this thing. Does it have the 'window' look of plasma or the rear projection look with regard to viewing angles.
- This is a first generation tv. What bugs will they be fixing in next years models?
- Price. C'mon... priced like a comparably sized LCD flatpanel?!?! I suspect(hope actually) that Mits is just putting out the 'feelers' on this one to see how the market responds and what they can get away with. My advice, if you really want to get market share and clean house make us an offer (a really really cheap one) we can't refuse. And we've already heard from novalux that the lasers aren't that much and the tv will be less since less optics will be needed.
- Shows 80% of what the eye can see, vivid colors etc... but how accurately does it show them (fingers crossed). I'm assuming it will need expensive calibration to bring out the best in the tv (like all others).
- Contrast ratio - this is one spec i was especially ticked they didn't talk about. I know it 'should' be high, but what is it (5K, 10K, 20K, etc...)??? C'mon, stop teasing us!
- A release date of 'later this year'. You just suck for saying that Mits. Give us something a little more solid and stick to it. (I also heard black friday, and even though i heard first half of 08 somewhere too).
- What the refresh rate - 60? 120? To quote the laser doc - throw us a fricken bone why don't ya!

My backup is a Kuro. They just look great! But man are they expensive and i was really set on something larger than 60". Oh well, i guess it's time to return to playing the waiting game for more information (thumbs twiddling), dang!

its about 90-95% of what the eye can see
refresh around 240hz since they are using realD processing for 3d video (in the cinima real d uses two 72hz singles 144hz) samsun already showed off a dlp with 240hz

thanks nola - most places i've read blindly quote about 80%. i was surprised to hear 90-95 (but kinda splitting hairs at this point - bottom line it blows the competion away on color).

as far as the refresh, i am also surprised to hear 240 (anything other than 120 seems unnecessary). that also may only be for when the realD is in use though. so i guess we can assume at least 120 for non 3d media (whereas when you load a 3d disc, the 3d chip might kick in at 240???).

either way, still disappointed that they haven't really spelled anything out though. also seems a little concerning.

thanks nola - most places i've read blindly quote about 80%. i was surprised to hear 90-95 (but kinda splitting hairs at this point - bottom line it blows the competion away on color).

as far as the refresh, i am also surprised to hear 240 (anything other than 120 seems unnecessary). that also may only be for when the realD is in use though. so i guess we can assume at least 120 for non 3d media (whereas when you load a 3d disc, the 3d chip might kick in at 240???).

either way, still disappointed that they haven't really spelled anything out though. also seems a little concerning.

no that would mean 240 for non 3d and 3d would use to 240 as 120/120 much like currently 3d dlp sets are 120hz at 60/60 i remember ti said that 240hz will give like 60% or so less judder thats fine for 2d conntent and dlp is really fast anyways so it doesnt matter, but in 3d the refresh rate is even more important.

either way, still disappointed that they haven't really spelled anything out though. also seems a little concerning.
Why? Their product isnt even available yet.
I am sure when it releases (late fall by most accounts except 1 guy in this thread that said late spring) they will reveal all the information you want.

Why? Their product isnt even available yet.
I am sure when it releases (late fall by most accounts except 1 guy in this thread that said late spring) they will reveal all the information you want.

doubt late spring, i remember reading somewhere after ces, that mits will release more details on the sets in may

Originally posted by hdnola:
while it may not seem like a big deal to replace a bulb, i would rather not ever having to worry about needing to be bothered with doing so. like say u are watching a football gaming or ufc or boxing or movie then right in the middle the lamp goes out . ya you might have a replacement bulb on hand, but by the time u replace it, the fight might be over, game pretty much downhill, or you are no longer able to just lose yourself in the movie anymore.

That's what DVRs are for! :-)

I know what you are saying though. My RPTV bulb is coming up on 7000 hours and been in place for 3 years and 2 months. I think I am just going to do some preventative maintenance and replace it a 3.5 years.

I don't know if the premium they are talking about for laser TV and no bulbs will be worth it. I don't plan on keeping it longer than 5-years.

Email Mitsubishi on their web site. this is resposne I got from them when I asked when it will be available.

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:


The laser TV will be arriving early summer.


MDEA Service

Email Mitsubishi on their web site. this is resposne I got from them when I asked when it will be available.

Thank you for contacting Mitsubishi Digital Electronics America, Inc. We are pleased to be able to assist our customers via our website. Here is the information that you have requested:


The laser TV will be arriving early summer.


MDEA Service

Interesting, hopefully more details will be forth coming vering soon. I hope they release a 73'' model like their Diamond Series.

In addition to Mitsubishi's Rear Projection Novelux teamed up with JVC at CES to show lasers abillity for Front Projection. There was no mention as to when/if it would come to market. Exciting to hear Mits. will have it available this summer.

I've been waiting for so long to get an HD (yes, i'm still SD - no comments necessary from the peanut gallery). I was really looking forward to finding out what was being offered at CES this year, but i think it's just given me more questions though. The laser DLP (i was really hoping for a sony laser SXRD offering) looks nice, but they've provided no details, which to me is a very big red flag. If you truly have the best, let us know it. And i'm also a little surprised by the lack of reviews for the new laser. I don't think i've read one comment about viewing angle (i know they 'should' be good, but are they comparable to plasma).

So since there's no laser sxrd, here's some thoughts/questions i have. I'm mostly thinking out loud in case someone finds the info or wants to vent with me, so no need to answer, i know the info isn't out there - groan!:
- Mits hasn't released details. If the specs are so good, let us know. This is a pretty big red flag to me.
- Part of the reason i wanted a sony laser sxrd is for product quality reason. say what you will about sony, but their product quality is pretty good (when it actually works). I've never been impressed with Mits DLP. Yeah they're really big, but the quality almost always sucks.
- What are the viewing angles for this thing. Does it have the 'window' look of plasma or the rear projection look with regard to viewing angles.
- This is a first generation tv. What bugs will they be fixing in next years models?
- Price. C'mon... priced like a comparably sized LCD flatpanel?!?! I suspect(hope actually) that Mits is just putting out the 'feelers' on this one to see how the market responds and what they can get away with. My advice, if you really want to get market share and clean house make us an offer (a really really cheap one) we can't refuse. And we've already heard from novalux that the lasers aren't that much and the tv will be less since less optics will be needed.
- Shows 80% of what the eye can see, vivid colors etc... but how accurately does it show them (fingers crossed). I'm assuming it will need expensive calibration to bring out the best in the tv (like all others).
- Contrast ratio - this is one spec i was especially ticked they didn't talk about. I know it 'should' be high, but what is it (5K, 10K, 20K, etc...)??? C'mon, stop teasing us!
- A release date of 'later this year'. You just suck for saying that Mits. Give us something a little more solid and stick to it. (I also heard black friday, and even though i heard first half of 08 somewhere too).
- What the refresh rate - 60? 120? To quote the laser doc - throw us a fricken bone why don't ya!

My backup is a Kuro. They just look great! But man are they expensive and i was really set on something larger than 60". Oh well, i guess it's time to return to playing the waiting game for more information (thumbs twiddling), dang!

Panasonics new plasmas are supposed to have as deep of blacks as the current Kuro and are supposedly brighter and will have a 65 inch model. I'd have to guess they'll be a bit less than the current Kuro but no prices have been given as of yet. The new Kuro's which I'm guessing will be out in the Summer are supposed to be a big leap in black levels also. I too will consider a Laser TV if it's that good and the price is right. For one who likes to upgrade I just don't see spending flat-panel type prices on a new "boxy" television unless it's vastly superior to a plasma or an LCD. I just don't believe the hype for now.

Whenever we do get more details, it will be interesting to see if it still uses wobulation to achieve full 1080p resolution. In my book, that is one thing that makes DLP inferior to LCoS. It's too bad Sony and JVC seem to be throwing in the towel on LCoS for RPTV. Laser with LCoS would be interesting.

What is wrong with wobulation?

Originally posted by Icaillo:


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wobulation

What is wrong with wobulation?Not much.

The projected image is a 1080p image, but competition from Sony and JVC described their micro technology as "true 1080p" because there is one pixel on the chip for each pixel projected on the screen. With wobulation, one mirror on the DLP chip controls the projection of two adjacent pixels on the screen.

In the market place, Sony and JVC have abandoned LCoS micro chip RPTV technology, while Samsung, Toshiba (maybe), and Mitsubishi, using wobulated DLP, are still in the game.

A few individuals feel that they can see the wobulation taking place. Given the speed that DLPs operate at that's surprising.

The main problem for micro chip RPTV technology of all types is the hype that flat panels get, and that a lot of people like the idea of a thin screen in their living rooms and family rooms.

Not much.
A few individuals feel that they can see the wobulation taking place. Given the speed that DLPs operate at that's surprising.

The main problem for micro chip RPTV technology of all types is the hype that flat panels get, and that a lot of people like the idea of a thin screen in their living rooms and family rooms.

I AM WITH YOU:D

I was reading a review from pc world, and the editor said the picture looked artificial because there is to much color. I can picture that being a problem given present tvs produce half the colors, and look very natural to me. Heres the link to the article. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html

in the article it says that mits tv wont be at cc or bb does that mean they will only be having a laser model and no more lamp models?

in the article it says that mits tv wont be at cc or bb does that mean they will only be having a laser model and no more lamp models?

but what about best buys with magnolia stores?

in the article it says that mits tv wont be at cc or bb does that mean they will only be having a laser model and no more lamp models?If the article is about the laser models, then it tells you nothing about Mitsubishi's plans for their current lamp based models.

Not much.

The projected image is a 1080p image, but competition from Sony and JVC described their micro technology as "true 1080p" because there is one pixel on the chip for each pixel projected on the screen. With wobulation, one mirror on the DLP chip controls the projection of two adjacent pixels on the screen.

In the market place, Sony and JVC have abandoned LCoS micro chip RPTV technology, while Samsung, Toshiba (maybe), and Mitsubishi, using wobulated DLP, are still in the game.

A few individuals feel that they can see the wobulation taking place. Given the speed that DLPs operate at that's surprising.

The main problem for micro chip RPTV technology of all types is the hype that flat panels get, and that a lot of people like the idea of a thin screen in their living rooms and family rooms.

It isn't the wobulation itself that I have a problem with. It is the pixels that are rotated 45 degrees and the blurring of single pixel detail that I don't like.

I was reading a review from pc world, and the editor said the picture looked artificial because there is to much color. I can picture that being a problem given present tvs produce half the colors, and look very natural to me. Heres the link to the article. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html

I wouldn't hold much weight with their first impressions until someone has at least viewed with a remote in hand to control picture settings.

It isn't the wobulation itself that I have a problem with. It is the pixels that are rotated 45 degrees and the blurring of single pixel detail that I don't like.There were a lot of people who felt the same way in 2003 when Samsung sold 720p sets with both types of chips.

The slightly softer (blurred) images created with wobulated displays are thought to be more film like by those who like them, and blurred by those who don't. The blurring comes from a small overlap between adjacent pixel images on the screen. The upside to that overlap is the absence of screen door effect.

Given market pressure on the RPTV segment, I don't expect to see non-wobulated DLP chips used. If I were in the market for a RPTV, I would hope for laser or LED light sources to get enough brightness to improve viewing angles, and reduce silk screen effect.

Since these will initially only be sold at "high end" retailers, does that mean we will be stuck with MSRP?

I was reading a review from pc world, and the editor said the picture looked artificial because there is to much color. I can picture that being a problem given present tvs produce half the colors, and look very natural to me. Heres the link to the article. http://blogs.pcworld.com/staffblog/archives/006226.html

I think the big thing to note here is that the display is capable of more color information than any available HD source. If they were using an available HD source (instead of a special computer-created source) they are limited to about half of the color capability of the set. There are already other technologies available capable of going beyond current HD source material- so in real life, the color range beyond that is irrelevant. Accuracy would be much more important than range.

I have a feeling that the simulation used over-saturated colors to get ooh's and aah's- looking at the pictures, they obviously spent a lot of time and money on the demonstration. If not, then the display may be inaccurate in it's representation of the limited colors in standard HD source material.

There were a lot of people who felt the same way in 2003 when Samsung sold 720p sets with both types of chips.

The slightly softer (blurred) images created with wobulated displays are thought to be more film like by those who like them, and blurred by those who don't. The blurring comes from a small overlap between adjacent pixel images on the screen. The upside to that overlap is the absence of screen door effect.


Yeah, I used to own an HD2+ DLP set. If DLP had stuck with square pixels instead of cheaping out, I might still own one. :) Instead, now I own a square pixel A3000 SXRD with zero screen door effect, and an extremely film-like picture.

I really don't think that SDE is really an issue on 1080p sets.

I really don't think that SDE is really an issue on 1080p sets.No, but RPTV sets using non-wobulated DLP chips, or Sony's SXRD chip are not going to be manufactured going forward into the foreseeable future.

With the introduction of these Laser DLPs, does that mean the elimination of the Color Wheel as well?
No Color Wheel & Lamps is great!

With the introduction of these Laser DLPs, does that mean the elimination of the Color Wheel as well?
No Color Wheel & Lamps is great!

Neither LED nor laser sets need a wheel. That's one of their big advantages.

Neither LED nor laser sets need a wheel. That's one of their big advantages.

Thanks Dave. That's awesome news. Being that I am currently an owner of the HP MD5880n 65'' RPHDTV, it has both the lamp & color wheel built in it. The set PQ is great, but the cost of replacing a lamp ($350) & the color wheel ($2300) has dampened my mood & view of RPTVs w/ lamps/color wheels.

Laser TVs have my attention, hopefully more news is forthcoming very soon from Mitsubishi!

.

.

I think the biggest challenge for laser technology is going to be price.

The massive amount of resources going into LCD tech will make prices come down and quality go up faster than laser can keep up with.

A year ago 65" LCD was $7000, currently you can get one for $4000, by this Christmas it will be $2500.

Are they factoring in these kind of price drops?

vfrjim;yadfgp:

Brevity being the soul of wit, your posts are utterly hilarious....

(I got blank pages...)

moonhawk you have a good attitude on life - you're going to live a long time with that low stress :)

vfrjim;yadfgp:

Brevity being the soul of wit, your posts are utterly hilarious....

(I got blank pages...)

It's just a way of tagging a thread so you can identify it quickly....

It's just a way of tagging a thread so you can identify it quickly....
Said the great Bard William Shakespeare: "Brevity is the essence of humor".
I like this quote from the Bard too: "Tis better to remain silent and appear as a fool
than to speak, and remove the doubt".

It's just a way of tagging a thread so you can identify it quickly....


Gotcha...thanks...:)

I think a $5,000 price for the Mitsu model is a fair guess. Perhaps it will be cheaper if Mitsu feels the superior image quality will not be a strong selling point. However, if one looks overseas in Asia, plans are underway to produce millions of laser engines to light cell phones and other microdisplays. We will be seeing Mircrovision's gimmicky laser powered mini projectors in cell phones before too long. You cannot deny the inherently positive attributes of laser light, so it looks like lasers are going to be mass produced and incorporated into a variety of consumer products this year and next. This means the price could fall more quickly than most new emerging technologies.

http://laser-tv.org

Rocco I agree if their 73'' were $5k-$6k price tag I'd be willing, but anything more & I'll just wait until 2009 CES, since this set is rumored to release in 4th Qtr of this yr.

I think a $5,000 price for the Mitsu model is a fair guess. Perhaps it will be cheaper if Mitsu feels the superior image quality will not be a strong selling point. However, if one looks overseas in Asia, plans are underway to produce millions of laser engines to light cell phones and other microdisplays. We will be seeing Mircrovision's gimmicky laser powered mini projectors in cell phones before too long. You cannot deny the inherently positive attributes of laser light, so it looks like lasers are going to be mass produced and incorporated into a variety of consumer products this year and next. This means the price could fall more quickly than most new emerging technologies.

http://laser-tv.org

What exactly are the "inherently positive attributes of laser light" that we are not supposed to be able to deny?

"What exactly are the "inherently positive attributes of laser light" that we are not supposed to be able to deny?"

Hey... i'm not trying to speak on anyone's behalf, but i believe that rocco may be eluding to the purity of the color of the laser light (don't have to split out the colors from white light), the lifetime of laser light sources compared to bulbs, and perhaps the energy efficiency gained from laser light. again, not trying to speak on anyone's behalf.

What exactly are the "inherently positive attributes of laser light" that we are not supposed to be able to deny?

I don't know if you've seen Necsel's dog and pony show but if not here it is: http://www.necsel.com/

I'd appreciate your comments on their claims.

I don't see a lot there. There is little detail on a few critical matters. First, colimated light is not necessarily a good thing for a projection system. Second, the spectrum is undefined. Saying that it can reproduce 95% of the colors that the eye can see is like saying you have a set of flavors that can make 95% of the tastes that the tongue can distinguish. A lot of them are irelevant and some may represent things that are dangerous to put in your mouth or just taste bad.

The proof is in the pudding...we will see when it gets here if it is all that it is hoped to be. I learned a long time ago in this industry to be skeptical of new technologies and not to assume anything.

I'm predicting right now that projection technology for cell phones will never become widespread.

I have no hardware expertise to back this up with, it just seems too kookie - miniature projectors instead of OLED screens? I say not gonna happen.

Millions of little mirrors on a chip seemed ridiculous to many right up to when the DLP products hit the market. The idea still does to some. But it works incredibly well. Like I said, the proof will be when it gets here. Ideas and application are often quite different matters.

I noticed that my post about the financial dealings of Novalux/Arasor, etc. was removed, and wondered why...

It seemed to me that information pertaining to the financial status of these companies is important to figuring out the future of the technology and if it is bound to enter the market. It would also help figuring out whether the claims are conjecture/misleading (trying to attract investors) or if they pertain to actual products bound for market.

Is there some policy I am not aware of?

Is there some policy I am not aware of?I'm not sure of the timing of your post, but the AVS system crashed, and some posts were lost.

I noticed that my post about the financial dealings of Novalux/Arasor, etc. was removed, and wondered why...

It seemed to me that information pertaining to the financial status of these companies is important to figuring out the future of the technology and if it is bound to enter the market. It would also help figuring out whether the claims are conjecture/misleading (trying to attract investors) or if they pertain to actual products bound for market.

Is there some policy I am not aware of?
I dont know what your post was about, but Mitsubishi has never mentioned either of those companies so i often wondered why so many people posted quotes for pricing and features by them.

Not big news but Mitsubishi has trademarked LAZRTV and LAZRTELEVISION as per engadgethd.

http://www.engadgethd.com/2008/02/04/mitsubishi-lazrtv-and-lazrtelevision-trademarks-surface/

I dont know what your post was about, but Mitsubishi has never mentioned either of those companies so i often wondered why so many people posted quotes for pricing and features by them.

Initial reports had Novalux making the Laser light engines for the sets and they had worked on the prototypes- that might not be the case for the final product...
http://gear.ign.com/articles/844/844527p1.html?RSSwhen2008-01-09_125300&RSSid=844527

For those of you who missed it, my financial summary was a longer version of this...

Novalux (with partner Arasor) makes optimistic claims and does some demonstrations about future laser TV product, makes multiple "coming soon statements" and generates a lot of buzz.
http://www.necsel.com/
http://www.engadget.com/2006/10/10/laser-tvs-launching-christmas-2007/

Novalux attracts +$200 million in investment, yet sells for $7 million in stock and $13 million in debt assumption to Arasor:
http://www.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2008/01/14/daily28.html?ana=from_rss

Arasor has never turned a profit and is listed on the Australian stock exchange, despite having headquarters in the US. In comparison, US has much more stringent Accounting (SOX) and Disclosure laws.
http://finance.yahoo.com/q/bc?s=ARR.AX&t=2y

Arasor anounces partnership with ZTE International, using Novalux to leverage a better position. This is confused in the media for ZTE Corporation- a publicly traded, major Chinese telecom firm. This generates positive investment reports.
http://www.photonics.com/content/news/2007/November/16/89744.aspx
http://www.australianit.news.com.au/story/0,24897,22763500-15321,00.html

However ZTEI is not in any way associated with ZTE (Chinese trademark laws are not as stringent as they are here)- some lawyer must have made them write this:
http://www.arasor.com.au/docs/ZTE_International_Update_Jan_2008.doc

Arasor has a history of leveraging and making claims that make them look like a good investment (albeit speculative), yet fail to follow through in their reporting. This has been reflected in the stock price- dropping from $4 last summer to ~$1 now.

Given this, it looks like the objective may be to attract investment money, rather than actually producing a mass-market product. I wouldn't bet on them being the people who bring Laser technology to market...

Given this, it looks like the objective may be to attract investment money, rather than actually producing a mass-market product. I wouldn't bet on them being the people who bring Laser technology to market...

I would expect that they are in it for the opportunity to research and patent, then sell said patents to whoever.

I don't think Mitsubishi is using Novalux/Arasor products. Instead Mitsubishi is going to manufacture the laser light sources themselves in Japan.


Mitsubishi just acquired a fab from Renesas, which should make it easier for them to increase semiconductor capacity.

SAN JOSE, Calif. -- Is Mitsubishi Electric Corp. re-entering the IC business in a big way?

Japan's Mitsubishi Electric (Tokyo) has acquired the buildings and the IC manufacturing facilities of Renesas Technology Corp.'s Kumamoto factory.

In 2003, Mitsubishi Electric transferred its system LSI and system memory businesses to Renesas. At the time, Renesas (Tokyo) was established as a joint venture between Mitsubishi Electric and Hitachi Ltd.

Mitsubishi Electric currently concentrates its resources on power and high-frequency optical devices. To meet the growing demand for these devices, Mitsubishi Electric has been working to increase the production capability for 6-inch wafers at its existing factory, the Kumamoto Factory of Power Device Works, also located in Kumamoto.

The company said that it has been seeking to manufacture its products using 8-inch wafers to further increase its production capability.





http://www.eetimes.com/news/semi/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=206100813

When you consider the introduction of Laser TV and the investment into a new Fab, it seems to me Mitsubishi is making the laser light source themselves.

Interesting Article/read Brim. Whatever the case may be, I just hope they get their act together & start mass producing these suckers, so we can finally get our hands on them.

I don't think Mitsubishi is using Novalux/Arasor products. Instead Mitsubishi is going to manufacture the laser light sources themselves in Japan.

When you consider the introduction of Laser TV and the investment into a new Fab, it seems to me Mitsubishi is making the laser light source themselves.

I wouldn't jump to that conclusion yet... Mitsubishi is a major manufacturer of electronic components- TV sets are a relatively small portion of the total, much less Laser TV's.
http://global.mitsubishielectric.com/

It would be just as likely for any number of different uses as for lasers. Even if it is for lasers, there are a lot of uses for lasers (cd's, dvd's, store checkouts, laser measuring tools- you are probably in contact with at least half a dozen a day).

As hithere mentioned, the purpose of Novalux/Arasor may be to grab up patents, which they would use to make money off other companies' final development and production. I would assume that Mitsubishi would either make the lasers themselves or buy Arasor, if Laser TV's ever enter large-scale production.

I've read this thread, and I've read Mitsu's Official PR http://www.believingisseeing.tv/news.html

It seems everybody is "assuming" this is DLP, but NOWHERE can I find any mention that it actually is DLP. Mitsu is not saying it, and none of the reviews are saying it. It's ONLY being described as "Laser TV".

I did find this in an article from engadget http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/will-laser-tvs-be-the-next-big-thing/

"people like thin TVs and the laser TV isn't thin -- it's about as thin as a DLP."

Is it possible this is something other than DLP?

I don't know....it's just a thought.

I've read this thread, and I've read Mitsu's Official PR http://www.believingisseeing.tv/news.html

It seems everybody is "assuming" this is DLP, but NOWHERE can I find any mention that it actually is DLP. Mitsu is not saying it, and none of the reviews are saying it. It's ONLY being described as "Laser TV".

I did find this in an article from engadget http://www.engadget.com/2008/01/09/will-laser-tvs-be-the-next-big-thing/

"people like thin TVs and the laser TV isn't thin -- it's about as thin as a DLP."

Is it possible this is something other than DLP?

I don't know....it's just a thought.

I consider it to be a modified DLP set. Of the current popular technologies it resembles DLP most.
It just uses laser light instead of the bulb and color wheel. I believe it still uses a chip with mirrors from the description given on their website.

...It seems everybody is "assuming" this is DLP, but NOWHERE can I find any mention that it actually is DLP. Mitsu is not saying it, and none of the reviews are saying it. It's ONLY being described as "Laser TV"....Is it possible this is something other than DLP?...

If it's Mitsubishi you can assume it would be DLP since that's what they've been using. But in general you're right. Laser is the light source. DLP is the chip that uses this light to generate an image. The chip could also be LCD or LCoS. There's rumours that JVC is looking at a laser LCoS to replace their D-ILAs. We'll have to wait on that, but there's no technical reason why not.

Is it possible this is something other than DLP?Not if you are referring to the Mitsubishi prototype that was seen at CES.

Is it possible this is something other than DLP?

I don't know....it's just a thought.


It's DLP.


LCoS is too slow to do 3d with just one projector.



The "Real-D" chip they're going to include in the set for 3d processing operates 72hz per eye.

One of the formats Texas Instruments has been promoting for 3d is two 60hz fields wobulated. I don't think Mitsubishi is going this route. Instead they'll use a single non-wobulated Darkchip4 with 240hz processing.


But that's just my guess.

Actually, according to the service training, the current DLP sets have the capability for the 60hz alternating fields, which could be used for 3d or player discrete view games. I know of no applications using it yet.

It's DLP.

I don't think Mitsubishi is going this route. Instead they'll use a single non-wobulated Darkchip4 with 240hz processing.

But that's just my guess.

So you're saying this will be a non-wobulating chip?

Do you have any more info on it?

I went to the DLP.com website but didn't see anything about it.

Sorry if these questions sound "basic", but I'm a plasma person. I stayed away from DLP mainly because of the primitive light source, color wheel, and wobulating chip. But it looks like all my concerns might NOT be a concern with these new Laser TV's.

Thanx

So you're saying this will be a non-wobulating chip?I understood Brimstone-1 to be guessing.

The extra cost of a non-wobulated chip might explain some of the projected higher than hoped for prices.

So you're saying this will be a non-wobulating chip?



Thanx


As far as I know, Mitsubishi has stated the Laser TV will have a Real-D processor built in for the 3d stuff. The Real-D format is different from the Texas Instruments wobulated format.


Texas Instruments wobulated 3d = two 60 hz fields (one for each eye)

Real-D 3d format = two 72 hz fields (one for each eye)




It might be Darkchip3 or Darkchip 4, but I'm guessing it won't be wobulated. I could easily be wrong about this.

OK....thanx for all the replies.

Non-Wobulated huh? Is there any true benefit to this vs a Wobulated chip that Tx Instruments has been using in the past?

Non-Wobulated huh? Is there any true benefit to this vs a Wobulated chip that Tx Instruments has been using in the past?


A wobulated DLP chip is 960 x 1080 resolution.


A wobulated 2d image is two fields that you eye combines for a 1920 x 1080 image. So for normal viewing, your getting the full HD resolution.



A wobulated 3d image is two fields each at 960 x 1080. The LCD glasses you wear seperates these two fields for each eye. So when combined the resolution you are seeing is 960 x 1080.


A non-wobulated 3d image would be two fields each at 1920 x 1080. The LCD glasses you wear seperates these two fields for each eye. The combined resolution you're seeing is 1920 x 1080.


So a non-wobulated chip would have a higher 3d resolution than a wobulated one. This is why I feel Mitsubishi will put a regular non-wobulated chip in the Laser TV, so that the 3d movies will be full resolution and at a higher refresh rate than the Texas Instruments wobulated method/format.

In other words, the Mitsubishi should be awesome at 3d with each eye getting a 72hz refresh.

Brim you the man, thanks for the breakdown/explanation!

Thought I let you people know that over @ Mits laser TV site they have put up pics from their CES 2008 show.

http://www.believingisseeing.tv/index.html

...A wobulated 3d image is two fields each at 960 x 1080. The LCD glasses you wear seperates these two fields for each eye. So when combined the resolution you are seeing is 960 x 1080....

I don't want to argue with you but this surprises me. It seems to me that this would be an unnecessary loss of image quality, compared to generating a complete image before switching eyes. Do you have any links or references on this?

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/Introducing%20DLP%203D%20HDTV%20Whitepaper.pdf

http://www.dlp.com/downloads/DLP%203D%20HDTV%20Technology.pdf

Thanks for these. Very interesting, and I recommend others download the first one if they want to really get into the details. But I cannot see any reference to wobulation. The only part of this which seems to relate at all to your point is the following quote from the introduction which says "The solution created by Texas Instruments maintains both the vertical and horizontal resolution." That would be a lie if they are doing what you say. Or am I missing something?

As I said I'm not trying to argue, merely understand this interesting technology.

As I said I'm not trying to argue, merely understand this interesting technology.


Smoothpicture is Texas Instruments name for wobulation.


After re-reading those, I think TI is claiming that you get the equivilent of a full 1080p resolution picture for each eye. The way they are doing it is like interlacing.


Hollywood uses the Real-D format that is 72hz for each eye, which 24 frames divides into evenly.


I guess in time Mitsubishi will release more information and explain why they're supporting Real-D and maybe how it's different from Texas Instruments method.

Hopefully they'll clairify more things like the difference between laser light spectural purity and how that is different from color gamut.

Hollywood uses the Real-D format that is 72hz for each eye, which 24 frames divides into evenly.


I guess in time Mitsubishi will release more information and explain why they're supporting Real-D and maybe how it's different from Texas Instruments method.

Hopefully they'll clairify more things like the difference between laser light spectural purity and how that is different from color gamut.


ya, but i doubt mits would do 144hz for tv. the would prob do 240hz, because at 144hz they might run into 30fps issues as 30 and 60 doesnt go into 144. while fine for th cinima, it won't be for tv, also 240hz would be even better for 3d anyways.