Simple question for HD DVD and dual format owners. If the BDA offered an olive branch in the form of a trade up program where you send in your HD DVD discs for Blu-ray discs would you do it?

I image it would be a limited time only and only for some studios that have/had both formats of the same movie (mainly Warner right now but could apply to Paramount if they also switch).

I imagine it would probably be for discs only (leaving you with red cases and sleeves).

I also imagine it would not cover hardware.

This is all hypothetical. I don't claim any of it to happen, although there are reasons to be optimistic. If so, would you partake of the fruit?

PS. I am an AVID HD DVD fan even though I am dual format. I have evangelised HD DVD every chance I could get. I voted yes. So don't think this is a Blu-ray fanboy trying to stir up trouble.

Yes.

Straight switch with paid shipping if the disc(s) has ALL the features and exact same extras? Yes. Otherwise, no.

Straight switch with paid shipping if the disc(s) has ALL the features and exact same extras? Yes. Otherwise, no.

+1

Sure. I would even be willing to pay shipping.

As long as shipping & "handling" doesn't nickle and dime us or come to $14.99 or something. If it's just discs, I would hope the shipping would be no more than like $6.

That would have to be for your entire order, not $6 per disc.

Ok, so I am getting picky and greedy even before get anything but if it's up to me that's where I would like it to be.

You bet. I would still like some type of cover art, though. Even if they shipped the Bluray disc and coverart, it would be better than trying to source one out or create one. I guess that's what custom covers are for!

-Brad

How will they ever run it for all customers around the world? Regional Programs?

I will refrain from this. Still prefer to stick with my HD-DVD player and continue with it. I am almost sure HD-DVD will end up as a legacy supported format down the line. It will at the very least play on PC/Laptop drives. Don't be a part of this hysteria.

It is much better to wait for a full profile, reasonably priced BD player from Panasonic or Samsung and start from there.

(/just my 2 cents worth)

Replacement if available on Blu-ray and refund if not available.

I thought about a Warner disc trade-in program, but I realized that many of my Warner HD-DVDs were not yet available on Blu-Ray (Batman Begins, V for Vendetta, Matrix trilogy), and many others just didn't have all of the bonus features (300, Harry Potter 4 & 5).

Yes,

In a blu future I will refrain from buying any Warner products ever.
A trade-in program will regain part of my trust in them to a level I will buy product from them.

Their movies will pass by on a HD Movie channel anyway. The money I spent on Warner product exceeded the montly fee greatly. So it's saving me money as well.

Yes

Yes,

In a blu future I will refrain from buying any Warner products ever.
A trade-in program will regain part of my trust in them to a level I will buy product from them.




So..... Warner can buy you back. A trade in program will regain your trust, eh...So much for principles....it's about money. It always is.... Hence the on-going complaining about the end of HD media going on around here with Blu Ray's win... Money.. IF it didn't go my way, then it should be the end of HD media... because I lost money on my investment and have to buy another player..

Can't we just celebrate a war's end??:o

I actually think it would help the BDA gain a lot of trust if they offered some kind of trade up. I just haven't a clue how they'd do it. On movies, they wouldn't be taking much of a loss. But on Players they sure would.

I'd look at it. No doubt I'd eventually go Blu. That would make it earlier. If there isn't anything, no hard feelings, I'll still most likely switch in time

Trade my copy of last samurai with TrueHD against last samurai with DD640???

No thanks.

And I still cant order The Kingdom or American Gangster on BD.

So..... Warner can buy you back. A trade in program will regain your trust, eh...So much for principles....it's about money. It always is.... Hence the on-going complaining about the end of HD media going on around here with Blu Ray's win... Money.. IF it didn't go my way, then it should be the end of HD media... because I lost money on my investment and have to buy another player..

Can't we just celebrate a war's end??:o

You have it wrong,

With Fox, Sony, Universal it's clear we knew there position all along.
Paramount went early for the right reasons. Not nice but their intention wasn't to end the format war in an instant as anybody could see that that wasn't going to happen. Cheaper production cost, finished specs and players and simpler authoring and perhaps 150m are sound reasons for that choice.

Warner sold everybody out until the last moment. I mostly agree with their motivation to end this as quickly as possible. What I dislike is that they continued their money grabbing up till the last moment.

They pulled this stunt for a purpose and have moral obligation to repair damages. Let's see how they really care about customers.

Warner can give me the money back they got from me or trade in my discs that they made virtually obselete.
Nothing more nothing less.

Until they do they won't get my business anymore. ever.

No, nothing wrong with my HD-DVD's so no need to part with them. In fact a few of them are better than their BD counterparts (interactive features, better sound, etc.) and the combos can be loaned to friends that want to see the DVD side. My boss just spent last week babysitting his rugrat grand-nephew visiting from overseas and he thanked me for loaning him "The Ant Bully" and "Happy Feet" (combo HD-DVD's) to keep the toddler glued to his Samsung 71F HDTV while he did other things. Sony and the BDA can keep their BD copies of HD-DVD movies I own and shove them up their... ;)

I have way too many discs to be trading them in. But For those Q4 buyers that purchased hddvd as xmas presents those Warner discs should fully be refunded. They are not people who visit these forums and are average consumers that wanted an HD player at a good price and at $99-$199 they got it. Along with titles that were on sale at $15 and many Warner titles for $19 this was affordable HD. They saw advertisements for HDDVD in Walmart commercials and on other ads. The average consumer does not look at format specs like we do. Warner screwed these consumers and their discs should be replaced. It is not thier fault Warner jumped ship and they were not early adapters.

Here's the way I think. If blu-ray wins, there will be lots of HD DVD m movies on sale for cheap price (I hope) and then I'll buy more movies. They have over 350 movies and that's a lot of movies and a huge collection for me. So I can always buy them, then when blu-ray comes down in price with A COMPLETE PROFILE then I'll think of them. Until then, keeping my HD DVD's.

BUT the war is not over yet and anything is still possible right now. We'll see how things play.....

Anyone who thinks there will ever be any sort of "trade in" studio supported program for HDM is fooling themselves.

That would be unprecedented in an industry that has been through media format switches many many times before.

It's never going to happen.

No - I couldn't be bothered, they work fine = what's the point, not worth my time.

And in the case of Warner given my experience with WHV I seriously doubt they could get it right - they could screw up a two car funeral going down a one way road.

No, not likely.

All any of us are really in this for is owning movies (well, some guys come of as if all they cared about was bragging rights, EF them), and I've never cared what format a favorite film is on, I just want to own the best version (PQ\AQ\features), period - I still have many DVDs of my favs because until they're out on hi def, thats all there is - same holds true here...until there is a better (not equal) version of my HD DVD titles, they stay. ;)

And to sorta touch on something mentioned above, when I do buy a BR player, I'll prolly make sure its any brand other than Sony, why not, its not that difficult to nab any brand thats providing a quality unit...you might think "big deal, like Sony gives a sh!t"...and thats right, exactly what I'd say as well, who gives a sh!t then, big deal, whats the diff, just call it a small personal shot back at them for shoving their format on us by using their blasted game machine.

I'm certain that in 5 .. 10 years time only my combo's will be usable.
The hardware will simple stop working one day. It's not going to last forever.

No HD DVD player will exist by then to replace the one I have now.

Rather replace them now and opt for the slightly less uncertain HDM future.

Already had 2 sacd players quitting on me already in under 6 years.
I still can replace these but I'm certainly not going to.

70 30 :eek:

I would not accept a swap. I bought the HD movies I own because I like them. With companies like ASUS and LG making PC drives capable of playing HD discs, it'll be many years before I have to worry about finding a brand new player - should my A3 break that is.

Anyone who thinks there will ever be any sort of "trade in" studio supported program for HDM is fooling themselves.

That would be unprecedented in an industry that has been through media format switches many many times before.

It's never going to happen.

No, it definitely could happen. The concept is not unprecedented. People who purchased DIVX players were given a credit / refund as compensation for that format failing. There was no need to compensate or swap out the movies because they were rentals.

There are a million HD players in the market. That's a lot of people to leave hanging with an obsolete machine, should HD die. I don't think the BDA would do 1 for 1 swaps because it would be too costly, but some sort of credit program for traded-in HD discs is a distinct possibility.

never

Paramount went early for the right reasons. Not nice but their intention wasn't to end the format war in an instant as anybody could see that that wasn't going to happen.

If Paramount would have stayed neutral, HD DVD would have lost just as quickly. The Paramount "buyout" was a band aid that stopped the bleeding for 4 months. Transformers/Shrek III would have sold 2:1 (maybe more) on Blu vs Red. The studios would have seen this and switched to Blu anyway. Paramount started this mess.....

Once again, these discussions do not matter. It is over and according to some other sources, you will not be pleased with Paramount over the next couple of days either.

I'm certain that in 5 .. 10 years time only my combo's will be usable.
The hardware will simple stop working one day. It's not going to last forever.

No HD DVD player will exist by then to replace the one I have now.

Rather replace them now and opt for the slightly less uncertain HDM future.

Already had 2 sacd players quitting on me already in under 6 years.
I still can replace these but I'm certainly not going to.
Frank, you can still buy HiVision LD players (I did recently), and HVLD was dead before the public noticed it was there. There are 1Million HDDVD players out as of now, and still being sold so chances are good that you'll be able to play the 500+ HDDVDs which exist today. In any case, by the time the HDDVD format disappears you will find tools which allow you to save them to your HTPC hard drive.

I don't see a benefit in exchanging the discs.

No, it definitely could happen. The concept is not unprecedented. People who purchased DIVX players were given a credit / refund as compensation for that format failing. There was no need to compensate or swap out the movies because they were rentals.

There are a million HD players in the market. That's a lot of people to leave hanging with an obsolete machine, should HD die. I don't think the BDA would do 1 for 1 swaps because it would be too costly, but some sort of credit program for traded-in HD discs is a distinct possibility.

I still don't buy it.

Obviously, I was not aware of any dedicated DIVX player credit/refund program.

That said, I would contend that the larger the base of the failed media format, the LESS likely a trade-in/credit/swap program is.

But, that's just my opinion.

As far as the players go, no HD DVD player will be totally obsolete because they all play SD DVD just fine. And SD DVD is not going away any time soon.

The worst case for the owner is that they ended up buying a really expensive (or in many cases inexpensive) upconverter that will also play the HD DVDs they already purchased.

I own the HD-A2. I do not own a BD player, but probably will eventually if the writing on the wall proves true.

That said, I think members of the BDA would be crazy to offer any form a trade in/credit program. It would be hugely expensive and simply unnecessary.

If BD ends up as THE optical HDM then that's what people in the market for optical HDM will buy in the future regardless of what competing format they bought in the past. It'll just be a matter of attrition.

They'd be foolish to throw that money away now.

Now perhaps some of the big name B&M stores might do something to attract folks to their stocked BD media, but I wouldn't hold my breathe for that either.

Straight switch with paid shipping if the disc(s) has ALL the features and exact same extras? Yes. Otherwise, no.

+1 and that means ALL which is basically saying NO because Blu just cannot do it like HD DVD did.

If it were free, and the discs had the same features, then yes.

I really don't see them putting the IME's on 300, HP4 & 5, Blood Diamond, etc., though, so I'd keep those. There are also plenty of HD DVD's that have better audio than their BR counterparts also (Superman Returns and Happy Feet come to mind.). Plus, there are plenty of Warner HD DVD's that don't even exist on BR yet like Forbidden Planet and Casablanca.

Basically, it would only apply to a handful of discs in my case. I'd exchange Deliverance, Blade Runner, the 5 Kubrick discs, and a few others.

Can anyone give me a precedence of something like this in the past, in or out of this industry that would be comparable? I simply don't see the corporate world caring, it would go totally against what they have done the past decade. In fact what Warner just did and their timing is exactly what to expect from the corporate world, not trade-in's and customer satisfaction.

Sony can kiss my [Expletive Deleted] :)

I will still have a great Upconvert DVD player.

IF (which I know will not happen) this actually occurred ... I may buy a PS3.

depends on the terms.

Must be exact duplicates of all of my movies (features, everything) with no money out of pocket. Otherwise, I'll ride my current set of HD DVD (and BD) until they die.

I, mean, really, you can still buy working Laser Disc players today (albiet, not new), so I'm in no rush to trade in all my current movies (~20).

I'd rather spend my money on a nice dual format player to take up less space in my rack vs 2 machines (and look normal, not like the PS3) than trade in my movies.

No, I do not want unrepairable Blu-ray discs. I'll keep all my HD DVD titles. There will always be dual format players, so I'll always be able to watch them.

No, nothing wrong with my HD-DVD's so no need to part with them. In fact a few of them are better than their BD counterparts (interactive features, better sound, etc.) and the combos can be loaned to friends that want to see the DVD side. My boss just spent last week babysitting his rugrat grand-nephew visiting from overseas and he thanked me for loaning him "The Ant Bully" and "Happy Feet" (combo HD-DVD's) to keep the toddler glued to his Samsung 71F HDTV while he did other things. Sony and the BDA can keep their BD copies of HD-DVD movies I own and shove them up their... ;)

Who's a sore loser?:rolleyes:

If I could get some sort of trade-in discount for my A1 I'd use it to upgrade my BD player to a Bonusview player. I would happily send in any of my HD DVDs for trade to BD (at least the ones I hadn't already repurchased), otherwise the rest are going on eBay.

Funny story...a week ago I was at Fye commenting to my wife that I should trade in some of my used HD DVDs to help fund some Blu-ray purchases the next time we're back (we live in Wyoming and Fye is 2 hours away, at one of two malls in the state :eek: ). Her response was "if they're still worth anything at that point". Haha, she doesn't really care about the HDM wars, but she appears to be prescient all the same...

How long till Warner kills their interactive servers? This will disable the my scenes component of their more popular discs.:(

No

Not a trade in, how about $50 off with proof of purchase of an HD DVD player?

No reason for you to send in your collection, but it would be nice for them to assist people in getting started with Blu-ray.

No since it really doent matter to me. I am purple and all my HDM is stored on servers, and I only use the disc's to ripped from. I still have two 360ao (for HD DVD) and the LG combo for HD/BD ripping needs.

BTW The thing about all the HD DVD interactive stuff, if HD DVD goes belly up, then will these servers still be functional for the interactive stuff. Prob not.

How long till Warner kills their interactive servers? This will disable the my scenes component of their more popular discs.:(

Keeping content on the internet is very inexpensive, depending on the traffic volume. There's no reason Warner should kill their servers for a very long time.

There is as much chance of me trading as there is of thebland displaying humility in his posts.

There is as much chance of me trading as there is of thebland displaying humility in his posts.

That's hilarious...I haven't seen any of his posts lately...maybe because I have him on ignore :)

Nope. I don't have a BD player yet, and I doubt that I will get one for a while. I might end up with one after Valentines Day, but I might have to buy an HD Camera instead. So just trading in the disks would be no use to me. Besides until something else disastrous happens to HD DVD, I think the format will limp along for a while yet.

Trade HD-DVD's for Blu-ray - Sure why not. As long as it's an even exchange, disc for disc. With a reasonable price for shipping.

Trade HD-DVD Players for Blu-ray (or credit towards a Blu-ray) - Maybe. SInce I only paid $98 for my Toshiba A2, that's fine with me. But my LG Dual format drive, I'd never give that puppy up.

Who's a sore loser?:rolleyes:


I don't think its being a sore loser to say you won't trade in for BD. I don't see the need, its not like my HD-DVD players will go poof! and disappear. I have a PS3 and will continue to buy BDs, but I will not trade my HD-DVDs for BDs.

The real losers in my opinion are the people who treated this "format war" as if they were routing for their favorite sports team and not realizing how cool it is that we could purchase HD media on any format.

Nah, you'll probably get a lot more back if you just ebay/craigslist your player and movies.

Rather than trade in disks, it would seem to be in BDA's interest to give HDDVD users some type of a discount on a BD player to bring in a whole load of new users who they know buy movies. They could nearly triple the number of BD standaolones on that alone.

This kind of plan would never work..would be a logistical nightmare...major costs and manpower involved etc...

Seriously, if you are an early adopter of ANYTHING, you take the risk and if you get burned, so be it, it's nobody's fault but your own.

If I buy a 2008 car that's supposed to be that brands end-all-be-all model, and the following year or two they make the same model even better still...totally re-do the car let's say, I can't run crying to the dealer that I want them to take my car back and give me a newer/better version just because I chose the previous model...I knew there would always be a chance that things will change down the road and I live with it...I don't ask for hand outs etc.

Being an early adopter can be a real bitch at times and many will learn a hard lesson with this latest fiasco called the "HDM format war"..just please don't ask for hand outs or "special deals" because you chose the format that may fold up its tent.

Others have posted similar suggestions, but this is the long-winded edition I posted on another forum. Fell free to tell me I'm nuts/stupid/delusional...but if I ran the BDA, I might give it consideration..

Since reading Bill Hunt's suggestion/idea of a BDA "olive branch" to us HD DVD folk, the mind wandered onto a possibility.

My BluRay peace offering would require the cooperation (ie-some $$ backing) from the BDA, at least one CE maker (you know who), the studios, potentially several major retail outlets & even one or more DVD replication companies. The potential cost--small, really if it means converting virtually all the HD DVD crowd to a unified (Blu) format--would only help hasten the possibility of HDM truly succeeding & future profits generated by at least near-mass adoption.

The offer could work like this. Sometime in 2008 or early '09 at the very latest, an offer to any HD DVD owner to make a relatively painless jump to Blu is offered. Promote the crap out of it on TV, online...everywhere. A major CE company sets up a website where these customers can get the ball rolling. The CE outfit could be any in the BDA, but I think we all might agree it should be Sony. They are the driving force behind BluRay, and the offer could only help spread goodwill towards a certain Sony-hating segment of the HD DVD club.

Via some sort of web-based registration process, Sony has HD DVD owners "prove" they own a Tosh/RCA/Venturer player. Either via receipt, warranty registration/rebate cash-in info via Toshiba....hell, there has to be a way to prove to them you own HD DVD, and aren't just scamming 'em to jump in (here's where the retailers might come into this....more later). After submitting info, Sony offers their, at -the-moment, least expensive SA player (the current is like, $299 most places, yes?) for a further discounted price. Let's say....$249. I'd say even less...but let's be realistic.

Great....now dish out some free movies by mail. And make 'em desirable titles, not the often "sub-par" picks Tosh was giving us. 5 is decent, 7's better....10...SWEET!! The studios could kick in here and further foster the warm, fuzzy feelings. We could grab either previosuly unavailble-to-us titles and/or swap some WB (and by then maybe Uni/Para/DW stuff) for BD versions.

As far as retailers go, another way to prove ownership is an actual physical swap program. WM, Target, BB, CC...etc..come up with a "recycling" program that can either be based thru retailers or done via shipping. If anyone wants to dump HD DVD altogether, they can relinquish their players & get the same discount (or maybe even a tad better) on a Sony. For those that would keep their players (me), we might have to generate a receipt. I still have a copy of mine that I would glady send to Sony

The "recycling" deal also sounds "green". Always good PR these days & would be "free" extra promotion for BluRay as a whole.

Recycling can also come about in discs for those that would wish to swap thier HD DVDs for BD versions (ie-WB, pre-switch P/DW, post--if ever--Uni switch). As I have gathered, HD DVDs can be ground up & reused to make more discs. BDs cannot, due to the scratch coating. WB/PDW/Uni(?) pony up and offer a swap program. Maybe not "free", but at most a nominal charge (S&H?). Those returned discs can them go back to make new DVDs (that are still gonna be around for years), HD folks still have their hi-def faves, and perhaps the studios replication support systems could offer some "green" incentive/materials cost discount for preventing discarded discs from clogging Mother Earth up. Everyone wins.

As to when this should could occur depends. Wait for a 1.1 compliant player to reach the preferred price point? Or do it to dump 1.0s? Former is obviously best, but many might still bite for the latter.

As to 360 drives....tougher sell. Doubt MS would agree to see Sony offer PS3 discounts for relinquishing an AO drive. Hardocre 360-only gamers may be the last to go Blu

Whichever, I would think the initial $ loss of such a swap would be small overall. Sony might lose up front with the player discounts, but will reap the rewards of guaranteed future software sales. In software, no HDM title has sold DVD size numbers, so studio-sponsered red to blu swaps won't be THAT costly for a short term solution to a long term goal.

Am I being unreasonable here?

Others have posted similar suggestions, but this is the long-winded edition I posted on another forum. Fell free to tell me I'm nuts/stupid/delusional...but if I ran the BDA, I might give it consideration..

Since reading Bill Hunt's suggestion/idea of a BDA "olive branch" to us HD DVD folk, the mind wandered onto a possibility.

My BluRay peace offering would require the cooperation (ie-some $$ backing) from the BDA, at least one CE maker (you know who), the studios, potentially several major retail outlets & even one or more DVD replication companies. The potential cost--small, really if it means converting virtually all the HD DVD crowd to a unified (Blu) format--would only help hasten the possibility of HDM truly succeeding & future profits generated by at least near-mass adoption.

The offer could work like this. Sometime in 2008 or early '09 at the very latest, an offer to any HD DVD owner to make a relatively painless jump to Blu is offered. Promote the crap out of it on TV, online...everywhere. A major CE company sets up a website where these customers can get the ball rolling. The CE outfit could be any in the BDA, but I think we all might agree it should be Sony. They are the driving force behind BluRay, and the offer could only help spread goodwill towards a certain Sony-hating segment of the HD DVD club.

Via some sort of web-based registration process, Sony has HD DVD owners "prove" they own a Tosh/RCA/Venturer player. Either via receipt, warranty registration/rebate cash-in info via Toshiba....hell, there has to be a way to prove to them you own HD DVD, and aren't just scamming 'em to jump in (here's where the retailers might come into this....more later). After submitting info, Sony offers their, at -the-moment, least expensive SA player (the current is like, $299 most places, yes?) for a further discounted price. Let's say....$249. I'd say even less...but let's be realistic.

Great....now dish out some free movies by mail. And make 'em desirable titles, not the often "sub-par" picks Tosh was giving us. 5 is decent, 7's better....10...SWEET!! The studios could kick in here and further foster the warm, fuzzy feelings. We could grab either previosuly unavailble-to-us titles and/or swap some WB (and by then maybe Uni/Para/DW stuff) for BD versions.

As far as retailers go, another way to prove ownership is an actual physical swap program. WM, Target, BB, CC...etc..come up with a "recycling" program that can either be based thru retailers or done via shipping. If anyone wants to dump HD DVD altogether, they can relinquish their players & get the same discount (or maybe even a tad better) on a Sony. For those that would keep their players (me), we might have to generate a receipt. I still have a copy of mine that I would glady send to Sony

The "recycling" deal also sounds "green". Always good PR these days & would be "free" extra promotion for BluRay as a whole.

Recycling can also come about in discs for those that would wish to swap thier HD DVDs for BD versions (ie-WB, pre-switch P/DW, post--if ever--Uni switch). As I have gathered, HD DVDs can be ground up & reused to make more discs. BDs cannot, due to the scratch coating. WB/PDW/Uni(?) pony up and offer a swap program. Maybe not "free", but at most a nominal charge (S&H?). Those returned discs can them go back to make new DVDs (that are still gonna be around for years), HD folks still have their hi-def faves, and perhaps the studios replication support systems could offer some "green" incentive/materials cost discount for preventing discarded discs from clogging Mother Earth up. Everyone wins.

As to when this should could occur depends. Wait for a 1.1 compliant player to reach the preferred price point? Or do it to dump 1.0s? Former is obviously best, but many might still bite for the latter.

As to 360 drives....tougher sell. Doubt MS would agree to see Sony offer PS3 discounts for relinquishing an AO drive. Hardocre 360-only gamers may be the last to go Blu

Whichever, I would think the initial $ loss of such a swap would be small overall. Sony might lose up front with the player discounts, but will reap the rewards of software sales. In software, no HDM title has sold DVD size numbers, so studio-sponsered red to blu swaps won't be THAT costly for a short term solution to a long term goal.

Am I being unreasonable here?

Never EVER gonna happen....and again here's why.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=12739515#post12739515

NO. I am keeping all my hd-dvds and will start saving up for a PS3 earlier than i was planning on. I always wanted to be purple, i am just too poor. i have to finish paying for my new samsung that replaced my old vizio. but i will definately have blu-flu by the time May rolls around.

This kind of plan would never work..would be a logistical nightmare...major costs and manpower involved etc...

Seriously, if you are an early adopter of ANYTHING, you take the risk and if you get burned, so be it, it's nobody's fault but your own.

If I buy a 2008 car that's supposed to be that brands end-all-be-all model, and the following year or two they make the same model even better still...totally re-do the car let's say, I can't run crying to the dealer that I want them to take my car back and give me a newer/better version just because I chose the previous model...I knew there would always be a chance that things will change down the road and I live with it...I don't ask for hand outs etc.

Being an early adopter can be a real bitch at times and many will learn a hard lesson with this latest fiasco called the "HDM format war"..just please don't ask for hand outs or "special deals" because you chose the format that may fold up its tent.

As far as "even swap"? Of course not. And certainly not on something like a car.

But a discount/incentve program? There aren't THAT many HD DVD owners, comparitively speaking, as their are to other items. Even some sort of "discount" on a certain piece of hardware (with free discs, just like they hae always offered) to those that can prove they own a player....how is that such a logistical nightmare?

Besides, doesn't enticing us HD DVD folk to jump over sooner rather than later/maybe never, lead to fulfilling the likelihood that BD re-starts the home video profit machine for a few more years? I think someone like say...Sony...might be willing to make such a risk/be bothered.

As far as "even swap"? Of course not. And certainly not on something like a car.

But a discoount/incentve program? There aren't THAT many HD DVD owners, comparitively speaking, as their are to other items. Even some sort of "discount" on a certain piece of hardware (with free discs, just like they hae always offered) to those that can prove they own a player....how is that such a logistical nightmare?

Besides, doesn't enticing us HD DVD folk to jump over sooner rather than later/maybe never, lead to fulfilling th elikelihood that BD re-starts the home video profit machine for a few more years? I think someone like say...Sony...might be willing to make such a risk/be bothered.

I can see how in many folks minds it seems so simple and such a good jesture, but come on...these companies can barely fulfill simple rebate forms etc..you honestly think they will be able to keep track of all the HD owners and their random paperwork? "Hey I bought this on Ebay ! I want the deal too!!"

Early adopters as they always played A/V Russian roulette(sp) and in this case lost....nobody owes them anything...they can buy a Blu player at store pricing just like the rest of the world.

I can see how in many folks minds it seems so simple and such a good jesture, but come on...these companies can barely fulfill simple rebate forms etc..you honestly think they will be able to keep track of all the HD owners and their random paperwork? "Hey I bought this on Ebay ! I want the deal too!!"

Early adopters as they always played A/V Russian roulette(sp) and in this case lost....nobody owes them anything...they can buy a Blu player at store pricing just like the rest of the world.

Well, not that he's the "expert", but Bill H did say the BDA was cooking up "something"....even if it is a potential logistical nightmare.

We shall see....either way, making sure it's not just "nyah nyah....you picked the wrong format....now prepare to be assimilated" will only futher the HDM cause the BDA in particular seems so concerned with.

Yes I would do a direct swap to Blu Ray discs. Mainly so they are future proof.

If I knew for a fact HD DVD or dual format players would remain in the future...then I'd keep my HD DVD collection in their current format.

I'm thinking of greatly expanding my HD DVD collection. If they sell very cheaply I might even try to collect them all (over many years).

Do that and give me 100 bucks off the blu ray player of my choice (including ps3) and I will abandon my hd dvd library and player altogether.

This kind of plan would never work..would be a logistical nightmare...major costs and manpower involved etc...

Seriously, if you are an early adopter of ANYTHING, you take the risk and if you get burned, so be it, it's nobody's fault but your own.

If I buy a 2008 car that's supposed to be that brands end-all-be-all model, and the following year or two they make the same model even better still...totally re-do the car let's say, I can't run crying to the dealer that I want them to take my car back and give me a newer/better version just because I chose the previous model...I knew there would always be a chance that things will change down the road and I live with it...I don't ask for hand outs etc.


Dude, bad example. You absolutely can return to the dealer and demand to trade in your car and get a new one. Sure you loose some money in the process. In this case we would loose some money too (small fee for shipping and handling). Sorry man, try a different analogy.

As for bitching about special deals, think of it this way. Right now the BDA is throwing special deals around left and right. They are giving 10 free movies away when you buy a player, they are giving you 50% off sales, BOGO free sales, etc... Some of these special offers are mail ins, so that's a mechanism that has been proven to work (albeit slowly).

They would be doing this to gain market share. If they thought they use these special offers to not only gain new customers but "steal" them from HD DVD camp then I think they might consider it.

I would do it provided that it was a near-free exchange (such as less than US$5 including shipping for each movie). Unfortunately, all the other "trade-in" deals I have ever seen (ATI's discounted sales of video boards comes to mind, and there have been others) work more like "Send in your old item, and we will sell you ours 'discounted' to just above wholesale cost". In other words, the discs would cost a bit less than Amazon prices, but way more than BOGO prices, if you send in your HD DVDs. In fact, I never expect to see an actual trade-in program, but I think it is quite possible that someone in the Blu-ray camp will make such a "just above wholesale" offer if HD DVD UPC symbols were sent in.

I'm certain that in 5 .. 10 years time only my combo's will be usable.
The hardware will simple stop working one day. It's not going to last forever.
It may not last forever, but my first DVD-ROM drive, bought in January 1998, still works.

Only is it was for every single one of my HD DVDs.

If it was only for half, I'd be keeping the other half anyway, so I still need the player.

Steve W

Yes...

You know what my hddvd's are not going to look any better on bluray. Many of them have better audio and PIP options and other features. The Warner encodes are VC1 identical and I am not selling my XA2. Many of my titles have True HD where on the bluray they are DD only. Many Paramount and a few Warner titles use MPEG-2 for the encodes on the same title and are BD-25's to boot. I want nothing to do with that as I already own the superior version. Likewise I would rather have 1.5 mbps DD+ that 640 kbps DD.

Now for Holiday buyers meaning any purchaser of an HD player or titles from Warner and possibly Paramount if they defect should be entitled to a free exchange for those titles on bluray. Especially from Warner as if they knew they were doing this they should have done it before xmas.

How can the majority just give up HD-DVD so easily?

I'll buy more and more HD-DVDs and won't give them up so easily. Why should I be that dumb exchanging my fully featured HD-DVD movies for the lesser featured Blu-Ray version?

Yes, I am neutral currently and not bitter about the warner switch. I am however left with a bad taste in my mouth that there were rumors of Warner going blu then there came rumors of them going red so I go ahead after christmas and buy all 5 Harry Potters... then they wait till after the christmas rush and post christmas gift card rush to make the announcement so they can unload as many discs as possible... great way to instill a feeling of trust and confidence. Warner has left a bad taste in my mouth and this would indeed help me on the warner front. A lot of my hd-dvd's I would keep though for extra features and truehd tracks etc.

- Jon

The only titles I'd be interested in exchanging are the sets...which, for the sake of uniformity I'd consider. In particular, Star Trek:TOS Season 1 and Smallville Season 5 (I already have 6 on Blu-ray).

How can the majority just give up HD-DVD so easily?

I'll buy more and more HD-DVDs and won't give them up so easily. Why should I be that dumb exchanging my fully featured HD-DVD movies for the lesser featured Blu-Ray version?


Because I don't want to maintain 2 collections forever. I have 37 HD DVD and 0 BD. For my purposes the HP movies are identical. I have spent far more time than you helping out HD DVD owners (see FAQ in my sig) however I am a realist and the Warner announcement was a deathblow. I will be buying a BD2.0 player (as soon as they get around to making them :mad:). So I have 37 HD DVDs and likely by 2009 I will be 40ishHD, 30ish BD. I think unless Toshiba pulls a miracle that by 2009 Universal and Paramount will switch. So I will be 40 HD, 60 BD in 2010, 40 HD, 100 BD in 2011......

I have two HDTV so that means keeping around 2 HD DVD and 2 BD players yeah thats fun. What if the player breaks in the future and nobody is making HD DVD players. What if combo players don't get off the ground because the HD DVD market is so small and shrinking.

I guess some people get attached to things but I don't. Toshiba played a good game and lost. They were not as ruthless, and spiteful, as Sony. They were not willing to lie, manipulate, and cheat as the BDA was. The consumer loses. If I can replaced 10-12 of my movies with BD I would ebay the rest and have one collection. If I can't likely that small pile of HD DVD will end up in a closet or garage eventually and get sold at a garage sale in 2011 for $1ea.

http://www.truthdig.com/images/eartothegrounduploads/AP_hillary_calculations_300.jpg ;)


Bad timing on this post

Prefer public polls

Voted Yes

No.

Only if I get to keep the red cases.

Shouldn't the title of this thread be changed to Trade Down? Thats what most HD DVDers would consider it to be when going from that to Blu ray! ;)

Shouldn't the title of this thread be changed to Trade Down? Thats what most HD DVDers would consider it to be when going from that to Blu ray! ;)
Exactly! ;) My response was no, because most of the Warner HD DVD titles have better audio and features than the corresponding Blu-ray disc.

It may not last forever, but my first DVD-ROM drive, bought in January 1998, still works.

My 1st DVD player, a Technics floor model I got from Target in the summer of '99 (it + Pulp Fiction was just under $200 if I recall!!!) is also still playing fine. My mom has used it for the last 2 years.

Willing to bet my A2 is built at least as well as that one was.

No, never! I could care less what the BDA does or the studios that support them. I will not buy a BD player, period. It's HD-DVDs or renting for me!
Patiently waiting for the next format.

Exactly! ;) My response was no, because most of the Warner HD DVD titles have better audio and features than the corresponding Blu-ray disc.

As the OP, I agree, it is a trade down, especially for titles like the new Harry Potter and 300, or even the combo discs that have the DVD on them too, that the Blu-ray doesn't.

Yes, it would be a trade down. That might be too sensational though in the title and invoke an emotional response instead of a logical one. That would obviously insult Blu-ray owners. It's a bummer either way I guess.

It seems the ratio is about 70% / 30%.

I think that's pretty compelling for the studios. If they decide to do a "Trade-down" they could hack off 70% of their competition in one fell swoop. Considering that portion of the audience is smaller now than it will be in a year, it's probably better to do that now then later. They could really kill HD DVD.

I say this from the viewpoint of an avid fan of HD DVD. So it's really a sad realization. Especially after reading that Blu-ray fan's post on how he sees things based on his time on the CES floor and how HD DVD is so much more mature of a technology.

My response was no, because most of the Warner HD DVD titles have better audio and features than the corresponding Blu-ray disc.Hmm, maybe that's the reason Warner did what it did... the bar with Blu-ray is already lower, so they won't have to work as hard to push out titles in quantity as they would have with HD DVD. Probably skip a lot of the IME they'd have done otherwise too, figuring BD hasn't had it to this point... nobody will miss it if they slack it.

Although the chances of such an offer happening is VERY slim, I would still trade in every single HD DVD I have. They're 12cm plastic discs holding data that is read back as a sequence of pictures. Whether my eye interprets the wavelengths given off by the plastic used to make up the boxes as red or blue is a moot point.

Sure. I would even be willing to pay shipping.

Me too.

Hmm, maybe that's the reason Warner did what it did... the bar with Blu-ray is already lower, so they won't have to work as hard to push out titles in quantity as they would have with HD DVD. Probably skip a lot of the IME they'd have done otherwise too, figuring BD hasn't had it to this point... nobody will miss it if they slack it.

Hey, don't try to tempt people into checking out HD-DVD's extra features. The format war is over and we don't want to go building up expectations for bells and whistles that aren't likely to show up on Blu-Ray for a year or so. Yes, they are much safer not knowing what they've been missing.

Lest we forget that HD DVD didn't do anything revolutionary with PiP until midway through last year (and on one title), then later did they pick it up a notch with GPS tracking so you can SEE where YOU are in the movie! WOW! And buy toilet paper while watching Evan Almighty! OMGZ!

Please. Don't act like buying toilet paper is the second coming. Because we sure know Evan Almighty wasn't.

NO

Warner says one of the reasons that they are going blu-ex is because of the plight of the sd movie situation; people are not buying as many movies as they used to buy. This holiday season for them was dismal as well as for the other studios.

They blame this on the HI-DEF format war? How is that?

I guess they surmised that because so many people weren't choosing either available format that all movie disc sales were suffering. So Warner decided to take it upon themselves to end the war by going with the side that provides more hi def disc movie sales for them; Blu-Ray, by a margin, according to them of 60:40. Overwhelming logic.

But Warner was the highest volume hi-def studio because they did go both ways. Now they don't. Now hd-dvd is stricken and may pass in the very near future. So I guess that Warner figures that all the 1,000,000 recent purchasers of hd-dvd players will take it in stride and now go Blu? Really? Is that what they're thinking?

How about all the recent and holiday gift purchasers rushing to return their machines? Problem with that is the average Joe probably doesn't even realize that all of this has just happened. They're home enjoying the great picture the machine provides.

When these people discover that their HD-DVD players are now anchors how do you think they're gonna feel? And that it was because a movie studio, regardless of which one, decided to stop manufacturing hd-dvd movies? They aren't going to feel as though they were totally ripped off? You betcha they will, and for a long time.

This will set the acceptance of hdm back even further. And Warner just lost 40% of its hdm volume.
Warner may have made what they felt was the best decision for their situation, but it ain't gonna be good.

Whose gonna trust them now? As we have all heard before,

It's gonna get worse before it gets better.

the bda should set up an agreement with netflix. rent the blu-ray version of the movie you have on hd dvd from netflix and you can return the hd-dvd version to netflix. netflix returns the hd-dvd movies to the bda. it would really be a win-win if those two partnered up like this. the bda wouldn't have to deal with all the shipping and receiving that would be necessary to administer such a program. netflix would get a few new members who joined just to do the disc swaps.

I have a solution cheaper than this and better for everyone.

The agreement should ve as follows:

Paramount & Universal go BD-exclusive.

Toshiba start making BD players.

All the major CEMs agree that, in the future (give the 6 months to sort it out) at least one of their line-up of BD players will also play HD DVDs.

Or they could do a rota so that at least one of the Panasonic BD players plays HD DVDs in 2009, and at least one Pioneer in 2010 - whatever.

Why is this good?

- It costs little-to-nothing. If the players cost more, then put the facility on a higher-end player where you'll barely notice the extra. So the BD-only CEMs don't mind;

- Toshiba might see that they'll get at least some of their development money back from these players - that's more than the ZERO they're now looking at;

- The studios like it because it ends the format war quickly, andthey don't have to replace any discs;

- HD DVD owners like it because they know they'll always have a HD DVD player available in the future if their current one goes belly-up.

BINGO!

Now it might need a little tweaking, but that looks like a solution where everyone comes out happy, and everyone looks like ther good guy.

Steve W

no

My HD DVD player plays all HD DVDs perfectly fine and will continue to do so in the future. No need to exchange the discs for Blu-rays, since i don´t see any benefit in doing so.

By the time the player eventually breaks and cannot be replaced (via eBay for example, my guess is in 10 to 15 years since i still can buy Laserdisc Players there), i guess my discs/encodes of 2007/2008 will be available in the 5$ bargain bins as Blu-rays or any other next-gen format at the time.

call me stupid or whatever but id prefer they gave me a discount on their blu-ray players over rebuying the discs. I mean even though ill spend more rebuying blu-ray discs id rather have like a $100 or $200 off a blu-ray player coupon or something. I mean the only reason i bought into the format war was because hd-dvd was $99 on boxing day and ive already spent half that just buying like 4-5 hd-dvds. But then again i dont know why blu-ray supporters are so adamant on their format as the one consumers want when at this current price point i dont.

the bda should set up an agreement with netflix. rent the blu-ray version of the movie you have on hd dvd from netflix and you can return the hd-dvd version to netflix. netflix returns the hd-dvd movies to the bda. it would really be a win-win if those two partnered up like this. the bda wouldn't have to deal with all the shipping and receiving that would be necessary to administer such a program. netflix would get a few new members who joined just to do the disc swaps.Hey, some actual creative thinking. Customers would get a "used" Blu-ray to replace their "used" HD-DVD. It's a good idea with ease of administration and probably minimal cost. Netflix would likely have to first cease renting HD-DVDs to minimize possible erroneous disc "retirements". ANY HD-DVD disc returned would then immediately be "recyled". But I doubt if anyone would be interested in funding it.