Does anyone have any experience with the IBeam VT300 Transducer? I see they sell them at Parts Express (which is local to me and also sells many of the Bass Shakers). Here is some more info and a review:

http://www.audioholics.com/reviews/speakers/subwoofers/sonic-immersion-technologies-i-beam-vt300-transducer

I'm wondering how these would compare to the Bass Shakers in a platform or single chair application. I just installed 4 of the Bass Shakers in my platform, but before I seal it up and carpet it...was wondering if the extra cost would bring me much better performance.

Anyone familliar with these??

I too would like to know ?
I'm about to go Ibeam or Crowson or Buttkicker.... In that order.
I Beam Super fast, accurate, Powerfull, Only down to 20hz.
Buttkicker..some roll off after sharp LFE response?
Crowson not as much punch?
This is what I read.
Now .. anybody compare these ?

I have a pair at home and really enjoy the experience. It really allows the view to feel bass versus just here it. I have tested these for well over a year and they work really well with a Behringer A500 which you can order from audiolines.com

ibeams connected to this receiver can really shake furniture and send energy from your armrests thru to your calves in a recliner.

Your piece of furniture construction has alot to do with the experience also. The more wood the better. Plus you need a sweet spot to attach it. 10 screws in total if you get em all attached it's very good.... VERY GOOD !!!

Any more questions - fire away.

thecompletist

If the I-Beam only goes down to 20 Hz, I would not consider it. The best thing about my Crowson transducer is the infrasonic output. My subs only go to 20 Hz. The transducer generates the response below that. If the I-Beam is limited below 20 Hz, I think the Crowson or the Buttkickers, or the Earthquake Sound Quake 10.0 would be superior choices.

Craig

I just re-read the OP and saw that he is mounting to a platform. In that case, I think the Quake 10.0 is the best bet:
http://www.earthquakesound.com/quake10.htm
I experienced a demo of this system at CEDIA last October. They had a platform with a 3-seat sofa on it. Even with the sofa loaded with 3 large men, the thing had no problem shaking the platform *more* than anyone could have wanted. Joseph Sahyoun, the lead engineer on the project, turned it up just to show off it's capabilities, which were *very* impressive. In fact, I enjoyed that demo more than the D-Box demo later that day.

Craig

Mine were handed to me as kinda of a permanent loner situation... so the price was right. Craig you took the conversation beyond my knowledge of tactile and bass etc... What happens below 20Hz?

The ibeam seems to have more contact area with the entire side being flat with 10 screws to inject into the furniture piece.

Mine were handed to me as kinda of a permanent loner situation... so the price was right. Craig you took the conversation beyond my knowledge of tactile and bass etc... What happens below 20Hz?
The human ear can only hear down to 20 Hz. Below that, we can only feel bass. Some subwoofers can get down into the teens, but very few can do single digits, and the ones that can cost $$$! Mine do a tremendous job from 20 Hz up. Then I get the tactile bass below that from the transducer. The Crowson goes all the way to 1 Hz, as does the Buttkicker amp I drive it with. I have the amp cutoff above 40 Hz, so all I'm getting from the transducer is the lowest bass, and the sub-audible, tactile bass. (I really don't like tactile effects at higher frequencies. I find them unnatural and very distracting.)

A lot of movies have sub-audible (<20 Hz) bass in them. To appreciate these signals, you either need *very* capable subs, or a tactile transducer capable of sub-audible response.

Craig

I have got the Ibeam and Buttkicker(so far) in my set up.
2 very different feels/sensations.
The Ibeam is very sensitive 20hz up>>100hz where I have it set.
Feels natural to me.. not distracting as the higher the freq. the less shake , and the lower it goes the strnger it feels..but drops at 20hz, and I do notice that because I have BK LFE in the next chair, and do swap from chair to chair.
The Buttkicker shakes the crap out of the chair below 20hz.
I intend to try a crowson. (comunication is terrible) dealers limited.
beacause my chairs are connected, using different transducers per chair means "in chair install" Crowsons are; Must go Under chair Leg..Platform.
I want in Chair installs.
Still I don't want to miss out on a good thing.
For me.. earthquakes are Super expensive as the shipping is almost equal to the purchase price. and again poor comunication from the company.
Buttkicker and Ibeam have both been right on my questions when I contact them.. both A1.
Clraks ? can't find any users..so dunno if i'd buy that also expensive unit.(voice coil design)

I just re-read the OP and saw that he is mounting to a platform. In that case, I think the Quake 10.0 is the best bet:
http://www.earthquakesound.com/quake10.htm
I experienced a demo of this system at CEDIA last October. They had a platform with a 3-seat sofa on it. Even with the sofa loaded with 3 large men, the thing had no problem shaking the platform *more* than anyone could have wanted. Joseph Sahyoun, the lead engineer on the project, turned it up just to show off it's capabilities, which were *very* impressive. In fact, I enjoyed that demo more than the D-Box demo later that day.

Craig


Hello Craig,

Was this the new developed 10.0X model Quake described in this video?

http://www.hometheaterhifi.com/images/stories/videos/other/earthquake-7-6-08/earthquake-7-6-08-new-quake-10.0x.wmv

It is suppose to produce 3 times the output of the Quake 10.0

Thanks,
John

Quake 10.0X.. Thanks for the link.. I'm sold.
Ordering 2 today.

Quake 10.0X.. Thanks for the link.. I'm sold.
Ordering 2 today.

I spoke with Joseph Sahyoun at Earthquake. The model number for the new tactile transducer is Q10B.

I just placed an order for 3 units and one of their XJ-600 amplifiers to drive them.

I am going to see how they compare to my 3 Original ButtKickers that are currently driving my HT seating platform.

John

The human ear can only hear down to 20 Hz. Below that, we can only feel bass.


That is a average (a general statement) and not an absolute we played notes down to 13 Hz to see what we could hear. I could hear down to about 16Hz, well maybe 17Hz. There is still sound....but the question I still can not answer would be "was it the harmonics we heard instead of the true 16Hz sound".

We used RTA or REW to play sine wave sounds. Pretty cool to experience 10Hz! :D :D

I spoke with Joseph Sahyoun at Earthquake. The model number for the new tactile transducer is Q10B.

I just placed an order for 3 units and one of their XJ-600 amplifiers to drive them.

I am going to see how they compare to my 3 Original ButtKickers that are currently driving my HT seating platform.

John

Can I ask where you ordered from...I'm looking:confused:

http://photobucket.com/steveshometheatre

Quake 10.0X.. Thanks for the link.. I'm sold.
Ordering 2 today.

I spoke with Joseph Sahyoun at Earthquake. The model number for the new tactile transducer is Q10B.

I just placed an order for 3 units and one of their XJ-600 amplifiers to drive them.

I am going to see how they compare to my 3 Original ButtKickers that are currently driving my HT seating platform.

John
Good luck with those units. I'm sure you'll have fun with them. I thoroughly enjoyed them at CEDIA. And Joseph is a great guy and a good friend. Here's a good demo from CES: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=218itbnpwJc
:D:D:D:D:D:D:D

I'm amazed at the cost of some of these transducers. I did a complete 6-seat Aura Pro bass shaker setup with amp for $250 less than the MSRP of a single Earthquake 10.0... or for about the same price as one I-Beam.

And here I thought Butt Kickers were expensive. :)

Is the performance difference/effect really worth 10X the cost (or more) for these units?

Can I ask where you ordered from...I'm looking:confused:

http://photobucket.com/steveshometheatre

I ordered direct from Earthquake Sound (http://www.earthquakesound.com).

John

Depends on what you want...

Aura Pro Bass Shakers:
Power handling: 50 watts RMS/100 watts max
Frequency response: 20 to 80 Hz


Quake 10.0:
Power Handling: 40 to 1,000 watts
Frequency Response: 5 to 40 Hz

I'm sure 6 Aura Pro's will do a lot of shaking, but you won't get the infrasonic stuff from them.

Craig

I did a complete 6-seat Aura Pro bass shaker setup with amp for $250 less than the MSRP of a single Earthquake 10.0.

bass shakers are not even close to the performance of buttkickers and then we go to the extremes of the Earthquake.

I had the Auro pros do not even go low enough to matter in my tests. My subs do that already. I currently have two buttkickers, they are perfect and they are better for me then the 4 Auro bass shakers I had.

Is the performance difference/effect really worth 10X the cost (or more) for these units

Not everyone will worry about $$$/performance. Some just have a budget and will find the products that fit that budget. Some would pay 5-10x for just 2x the performance, its their money anyways :D

bass shakers are not even close to the performance of buttkickers and then we go to the extremes of the Earthquake.

I had the Auro pros do not even go low enough to matter in my tests. My subs do that already. I currently have two buttkickers, they are perfect and they are better for me then the 4 Auro bass shakers I had.



Not everyone will worry about $$$/performance. Some just have a budget and will find the products that fit that budget. Some would pay 5-10x for just 2x the performance, its their money anyways :D

I started out years ago with an array of 8 RBH FX-80 tactile transducers. (Ultra High Performance Aura units)

I used these for over a year and replaced the entire array with a pair of Clark Synthesis Gold models. I then stepped up to their Platinum models.

Later on I upgraded to 4 Original ButtKicker I's. I have been using these with different subwoofers for around 10 years.

I also experimented with the Crowson Technology TES-100's for a brief period.

If I knew how much I was missing while using the RBH units I would have upgraded sooner. I have used my ButtKickers along with a pair of Velodyne HGS-18's and recently with duel Epik Conquests. I now am using them with a HSU ULS-15 QuadDrive system. I drivie the BK's with a pair of Crown K2 amplifiers. I started out with fan cooled pro amps but didn't like the noise. This was well before BK released their convection cooled amp. I have their signal lowpassed at 20 Hz. I have tested the ButtKickers with a 10 Hz signal and they are still going with authority. I find that a high performance tactile transducer adds something for me a subwoofer alone doesn't.

John

I started out years ago with an array of 8 RBH FX-80 tactile transducers. (Ultra High Performance Aura units)

I used these for over a year and replaced the entire array with a pair of Clark Synthesis Gold models. I then stepped up to their Platinum models.

Later on I upgraded to 4 Original ButtKicker I's. I have been using these with different subwoofers for around 10 years.

I also experimented with the Crowson Technology TES-100's for a brief period.
What were your impressions of the Crowson? Why did you only have it for a brief period?

If I knew how much I was missing while using the RBH units I would have upgraded sooner. I have used my ButtKickers along with a pair of Velodyne HGS-18's and recently with duel Epik Conquests. I now am using them with a HSU ULS-15 QuadDrive system.
Interesting upgrade path! How do you like the ULS's?

I drivie the BK's with a pair of Crown K2 amplifiers. I started out with fan cooled pro amps but didn't like the noise. This was well before BK released their convection cooled amp. I have their signal lowpassed at 20 Hz.
How are you low-passing them? I have the BK amp and it low passes at 40 Hz, (or higher). I would like a lower filter point.

I find that a high performance tactile transducer adds something for me a subwoofer alone doesn't.

John
I think you're really gonna enjoy the Quakes! When you get them, please be sure to start a new thread and let us know how you like them.

Craig

I ordered direct from Earthquake Sound (http://www.earthquakesound.com).

John

John..Please do start a thread on the new quake Q10.0B , as I'd really like to know how you compare them to your BK originals, or your BK LFE ?
Or the others you tried for that matter and all the other querry folk..

I'm running two Aura Pros under a reclining loveseat, powered by a PE 240 watt sub plate amp. Would this amp have enough "umph" to drive a Buttkicker LFE? I'd like to upgrade, but I really don't want to buy a new amp. Also, would a single BK LFE be a big upgrade over two Auras? Thanks!

I'm running two Aura Pros under a reclining loveseat, powered by a PE 240 watt sub plate amp. Would this amp have enough "umph" to drive a Buttkicker LFE? I'd like to upgrade, but I really don't want to buy a new amp. Also, would a single BK LFE be a big upgrade over two Auras? Thanks!

My opinion YES.
I have my set up in a QCP selector than when running 4 transducers, they get 250watts each @ 4ohm. (BK1000 amp)
This gives me about 60-70% the Umph.. that I get when using only 1 BK, but I just turn it up from 40% volume to about 55% and I get pretty close to the same performance.

You would at least be fine for the time being.. upgrade later on.
USE Kinetic rubber Isolators.. Huge performance difference for my chairs.

I spoke with Joseph Sahyoun at Earthquake. The model number for the new tactile transducer is Q10B.

I just placed an order for 3 units and one of their XJ-600 amplifiers to drive them.

I am going to see how they compare to my 3 Original ButtKickers that are currently driving my HT seating platform.

John

If your ordering the Xj600R amplifier, then are you intending or are you running your subs in stearo vs mono ? 3D bass, as Earthquake calls it.

I was thinking of running my MBM's that way, If I get the XJ600 amp.
using the LFE out and pre out R / L to the XJ600 amp and let amp "dynamically synchronize" the sub harmonic freq. to blend with front R/L mains.
Sounds like a Wow factor, when set up this way ?
Moving the LFE from right to left following the on screen image, to some extent... I know just watch a movie in Mono and switch to stereo, big difference, then of course to 5.1 , 7.1, and some 9.3's and beyond.
Not to complicate things, but if the amp is capable.. and you got the subs ?

ps..
Should do a good job of powering your Q10.0B transducers as well..bonus.
99% efficient,.. I think my BK is about half that for efficiency.

If your ordering the Xj600R amplifier, then are you intending or are you running your subs in stearo vs mono ? 3D bass, as Earthquake calls it.

I was thinking of running my MBM's that way, If I get the XJ600 amp.
using the LFE out and pre out R / L to the XJ600 amp and let amp "dynamically synchronize" the sub harmonic freq. to blend with front R/L mains.
Sounds like a Wow factor, when set up this way ?
Moving the LFE from right to left following the on screen image, to some extent... I know just watch a movie in Mono and switch to stereo, big difference, then of course to 5.1 , 7.1, and some 9.3's and beyond.
Not to complicate things, but if the amp is capable.. and you got the subs ?

ps..
Should do a good job of powering your Q10.0B transducers as well..bonus.
99% efficient,.. I think my BK is about half that for efficiency.

I spoke to Joseph S. this evening and he said this is how he advised JohnH to run the transducers. I would be *very* interested in John's comments, especially if he sets them up this way. As I said earlier in the thread, I attended D-Box's demo at CEDIA. I thought that was *way* overdone, and quite gimmicky. This L/R/LFE thing could be a much better solution.

BTW, the Quake I experienced at CEDIA where the older, original version, and it was just a single Quake mounted to the back of the platform. If the newer version is 3X those... :eek::eek::eek:

Craig

Any comments or comparisons, with 3 Quakes on a platform, vs 3 quakes inside the 3 chairs ?
Would a platform , perhaps provide more lateral motion ?

Any comments or comparisons, with 3 Quakes on a platform, vs 3 quakes inside the 3 chairs ?
Would a platform , perhaps provide more lateral motion ?
The nice thing about a platform is that, if your feet are on the platform, you feel the shaking in your feet as well as your body. If you just shake the chair, and your feet are on an "unshaken" floor, you feel the shaking in your body, but *not* in your feet. It's a somewhat unnatural sensation.

Now, if your feet are not on the floor, (i.e., they are up on a recliner), then
you will get the sense of shaking in your feet, and you won't miss not having the floor shake.

Regarding lateral motion, I believe you can mount the Quake's horizontally on the sides of the platform to provide lateral motion. However, that migth lead to motion sickness! :eek: Nonetheless, I will ask Joseph S., just to be sure. I'll get back to you.

Craig

"How are you low-passing them? I have the BK amp and it low passes at 40 Hz, (or higher). I would like a lower filter point." from Craig John

I was looking online today and found that the Behringer CX2310 has a variable low pass that goes all the way down to 10hz!

XJ600R Earthquake amp has filter at 20hz, 30, 40, 50, and up then be adjusted as low as -6db. to +6db allowing some customizing of what LFE is output to transducers.
To have prefered frq. boosted and unpreferred freq, lowered.
I like to still feel 70-90hz but at a MUCH reduced level, just barely.. but 10hz..shake away..
Looks like an amazing amp.
and quiet, no fans.

I spoke to Joseph S. this evening and he said this is how he advised JohnH to run the transducers. I would be *very* interested in John's comments, especially if he sets them up this way. As I said earlier in the thread, I attended D-Box's demo at CEDIA. I thought that was *way* overdone, and quite gimmicky. This L/R/LFE thing could be a much better solution.

BTW, the Quake I experienced at CEDIA where the older, original version, and it was just a single Quake mounted to the back of the platform. If the newer version is 3X those... :eek::eek::eek:

Craig

My order arrived from Earthquake Sound. I picked up 4 Q10B tactile transducers. 4 S-shaped mounting brackets and a pair of XJ-600R amplifiers. I plan on using all 4 units on the platform. The 2 on the left will be wired in parallel and driven with 1 amplifier. The same configuration on the right with the other amplifier.

The XJ-600R is a monaural amplifier. There are 2 inputs on the rear of the amp. The volume gain on the front is a 3 position control.

MAIN GAIN: One push of the knob will adjust input channel-1, another push will adjust channel-2 and a third push will adjust both gains simultaneously (master gain). The XJ's LEDs will indicate which channel is
selected.

I will feed the amplifier driving the left side an LFE signal plus a Left main channel signal. The amp driving the right side will be fed an LFE signal and a Right main channel signal.

The connection configuaration I will be using is outlined on page 7 of the owners manual.

Duel Subwoofer (StereoMono) Connection.

XJ-600R manual (http://www.earthquakesound.com/IMAGEJP/HOME/PDF/xj600r-manual.pdf)

It seems that you would need to have your mains set to large full range to achieve the best results.

This might be where the 2 auxilliary programmable channels of my Parasound C2 controller come in handy. Each channel can be fed a user-selectable mix of signals from the other 7.1 channels. Each has independently adjustable high-pass and low-pass filters, delay, and level and provision for deriving content from any or all of the other eight channels, mixed in any proportion.

I could use one auxilliary channel to extract a full range Left main channel signal and the other auxilliary channel for a full range Right main channel signal.

This way I could still run the speakers in my system lowpassed at 80 Hz to the subwoofer.

Joseph told me that they only used one QB10 to drive a platform with a 3 seat sofa and I could be crazy with 4 :eek:. He also said I would not be able to use the stereo/mono configuration with just one amp. This is why I chose to pick up another XJ-600R to see how this might work.

I need to modify my platform before I mount the Q10B's

John

Platform diagram: 8' W x 38" D

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v356/blonzz/quake201020platform20with20close20u.jpg

John,

I would be very interested in your comments after you have the Quakes setup. However, please make a new thread. This one is already way off topic and the your Quake setup deserves it's own thread.

Craig

This is Jason Hohmann of Earthquake Sound. I would like to point out some facts on using tactile with suspended platform:
1 we have computed the spring constant in a 4'X8'x1.25" Plywood. Then we inforced the long 8' sides with 2"x2" one on each side. Then we used 2"x2"x3" feet on each corner. This allows for mass balance and a spring constant of K=1 with an 700 lbs weight loading. That's been said, the shaker will then have a smooth and fast response.
John has a 38"x8'x3/4" thickness platform. I think we might have to use an additional 3/4" to stop the front, to back flexing. I told Joseph that this is needed but he said we can always do that. For those of you out there, Please note that it is necessary to have a rigid front to back. I suppose John can use 2x4 from the front to the back to reduce floor flexing that will waste the shaker output. I am waiting for John's test result. But if anyone is interested, we can provide data for any platform you might need.
Thanks
jason Hohmann
ESC

This is Jason Hohmann of Earthquake Sound. I would like to point out some facts on using tactile with suspended platform:
1 we have computed the spring constant in a 4'X8'x1.25" Plywood. Then we inforced the long 8' sides with 2"x2" one on each side. Then we used 2"x2"x3" feet on each corner. This allows for mass balance and a spring constant of K=1 with an 700 lbs weight loading. That's been said, the shaker will then have a smooth and fast response.
John has a 38"x8'x3/4" thickness platform. I think we might have to use an additional 3/4" to stop the front, to back flexing. I told Joseph that this is needed but he said we can always do that. For those of you out there, Please note that it is necessary to have a rigid front to back. I suppose John can use 2x4 from the front to the back to reduce floor flexing that will waste the shaker output. I am waiting for John's test result. But if anyone is interested, we can provide data for any platform you might need.
Thanks
jason Hohmann
ESC

I think you just sold me on a Earthequake Sound platform now..:p
Just found a local dealer to sell me the Q10.0B x2 and XJ600 x 1.
Should have that next week.
Need to know how high my seats will be elevated if I go with a platform ?and..
What type of isolators are standard on the platform?

I think you just sold me on a Earthequake Sound platform now..:p
Just found a local dealer to sell me the Q10.0B x2 and XJ600 x 1.
Should have that next week.
Need to know how high my seats will be elevated if I go with a platform ?and..
What type of isolators are standard on the platform?
Guys, I have started a new thread for all this Earthuake discussion.
http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=15695018#post15695018

The current thread was originally about the I-Beam and Bass Shakers, To get the thread back on topic, and to give the Quake's the dedicated attention they deserve, let's take that discussion to the new thread.

Craig

Let me reply to all regarding the Aura's and Guitammers as I have BOTH.

Installation in a platform is pointless if using the Aura's. They do not have enough omph. I have 4 Aura Pro Bass Shakers installed in EACH couch. They work GREAT that way!

I have two of the original Buttkickers mounted to the platform itself. They work great depending on the way in which you mount them. See this recent thread here for details on ideal mounting locations and platform construction : http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=1114133 I don't know about the capabilities of the new Buttkickers, but I was told a few years ago that the were very similar to the originals (which I have), just smaller and less expensive. If they are ANYTHING like the originals, then definitely get them. They are hands down the best purchase I made for my HT (aside from the 10' wide screen ;) )

http://i441.photobucket.com/albums/qq137/rms8/Home%20Theater/IMG_1584.jpg

This is Jason Hohmann of Earthquake Sound. I would like to point out some facts on using tactile with suspended platform:
1 we have computed the spring constant in a 4'X8'x1.25" Plywood. Then we inforced the long 8' sides with 2"x2" one on each side. Then we used 2"x2"x3" feet on each corner. This allows for mass balance and a spring constant of K=1 with an 700 lbs weight loading. That's been said, the shaker will then have a smooth and fast response.
John has a 38"x8'x3/4" thickness platform. I think we might have to use an additional 3/4" to stop the front, to back flexing. I told Joseph that this is needed but he said we can always do that. For those of you out there, Please note that it is necessary to have a rigid front to back. I suppose John can use 2x4 from the front to the back to reduce floor flexing that will waste the shaker output. I am waiting for John's test result. But if anyone is interested, we can provide data for any platform you might need.
Thanks
jason Hohmann
ESC

Hey Jason, I gather everything you're saying in terms of construction except for the corners. Also is 700 lbs. the weight limit of the platform or just a variable to determine spring rate?

This is Jason Hohmann of Earthquake Sound. I would like to point out some facts on using tactile with suspended platform:
1 we have computed the spring constant in a 4'X8'x1.25" Plywood. Then we inforced the long 8' sides with 2"x2" one on each side. Then we used 2"x2"x3" feet on each corner. This allows for mass balance and a spring constant of K=1 with an 700 lbs weight loading. That's been said, the shaker will then have a smooth and fast response.
John has a 38"x8'x3/4" thickness platform. I think we might have to use an additional 3/4" to stop the front, to back flexing. I told Joseph that this is needed but he said we can always do that. For those of you out there, Please note that it is necessary to have a rigid front to back. I suppose John can use 2x4 from the front to the back to reduce floor flexing that will waste the shaker output. I am waiting for John's test result. But if anyone is interested, we can provide data for any platform you might need.
Thanks
jason Hohmann
ESC

I think you just sold me on a Earthequake Sound platform now..:p
Just found a local dealer to sell me the Q10.0B x2 and XJ600 x 1.
Should have that next week.
Need to know how high my seats will be elevated if I go with a platform ?and..
What type of isolators are standard on the platform?

Hey Jason, I gather everything you're saying in terms of construction except for the corners. Also is 700 lbs. the weight limit of the platform or just a variable to determine spring rate?

I have copied these three posts to the "Official" thread. Please, to preserve proper forum etiquette, let's take the EQS discussion over there and let the OP have his thread back.

Craig