http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article3153038.ece

Blu-Ray takes inside edge in war with HD-DVD

Up to 20 firms backing HD-DVD consider defection after Warner opted for Blu-Ray and Paramount is poised to follow

The sprawling consortium of technology and media companies assembled to promote the HD-DVD format of next-generation high definition discs faces a spate of defections to the rival Blu-Ray Disc consortium.

As many as 20 companies currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group could be preparing to remove their names from the alliance’s 130-strong membership list, The Times has learned.

Paramount yesterday emerged as the latest major Hollywood studio poised to switch allegiances.

Despite the huge armies of technology companies ranged against each other in the format showdown, Paramount has turned out to be a pivotal figure. Its decision in August to give exclusive backing to HD-DVD was seen as a potentially devastating blow to the prospects of Blu-Ray, and to the strategy of Sony’s president, Sir Howard Stringer.

Sir Howard consistently argued, though, that the Playstation3 games console, which includes a Blu-Ray disc player, would put the format in people’s living rooms around the world more quickly than HD-DVD players would be adopted by consumers. But Paramount, like other members of the HD-DVD group such as Fujitsu, Lenovo and Kenwood, has hedged its bets. It offered exclusivity in August on the basis that it could reverse the decision should Warner Bros switch to Blu-Ray.

The threatened exodus from the HD-DVD format follows last week’s decision by Warner Bros to back the rival Blu-Ray Disc format, whose main technology backers include Sony, Apple and Dell.

One Tokyo-based analyst said that the defections could represent the final nails in the coffin of Toshiba’s HD-DVD standard after a bitterly-fought “format war” that has run for a little over one year.

Eiichi Katayama, of Nomura Securities, said that the battle between the formats, which display films and video games more sharply in an era of ever-growing television screen sizes, was now “entering its final phase”.

Pony Canyon, a major Japanese music, animation and film studio and part of the giant Fuji Television media empire, said that although it was currently part of the HD-DVD Promotion Group, the decisions of US studios meant it would “choose Blu-Ray in the end”.

Several other Japanese firms – including content producers and electronics component makers – said that their support of HD DVD was “under review” and that they knew of many others in the same position. Others, who admitted that they had previously been waiting for “clear market momentum”, said that it had now probably arrived.

Backers of HD-DVD point to the relative ease of producing the discs, and the lower cost of building machines capable of reading them. Unlike previous format wars, particularly the notorious Betamax v VHS skirmish in the 1980s, the war between Blu-Ray and HD-DVD has effectively been decided in boardrooms, rather than electronics showrooms. The decisions of the major studios have come well before those of customers, who have generally held back from picking one format for fear of backing a loser.

Facing a future with only Universal Pictures as its major Hollywood supporter, Toshiba and HD-DVD, said analysts at the Consumer Electronics Show in Las Vegas, could quickly find itself isolated. But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

The Domino Effect.

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

Great another thread with another article about what "could" happen as certain companies are "considering" this or that.

Well duh. I had no idea that HD DVD backers "could" be thinking about their current level of support. I really needed another thread to inform me of this. thanks!

The last time I checked, M$ doesn't own any studios or make movies itself...

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

Yeah, because Microsoft has been so supportive of HD DVD at CES. Did you read the interview with Gates, or notice that his keynote said nothing about HD DVD (even though it was reported that before the WB announcement a portion of it was allocated to HDM)?

Microsoft is already talking downloads. They are not going to be the knight in shining armor for HD DVD.

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

A partner that doesn't even mention your product during one of the biggest trade shows in the world cannot be considered a "trump card".

microsoft avoided hd dvd at CES. They don't own any patents or vested interest, why would they give hundreds millions to a lost cause?

And what has Microsoft done for HD DVD recently? They actively denied word of integrated HD DVD in the 360, so I guess that counts as "doing something".

A partner that doesn't even mention your product during one of the biggest trade shows in the world cannot be considered a "trump card".

Oh, ok. Thanks!!!!

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

Probably because Microsoft's CES keynote came and went and they never even mentioned HD DVD.

Microsoft aren't stupid. They backed the wrong horse, they lost, and they know it.

This is not a shock, and it makes sense. Of course companies are defecting now that the war is over.

Great another thread with another article about what "could" happen as certain companies are "considering" this or that.

Well duh. I had no idea that HD DVD backers "could" be thinking about their current level of support. I really needed another thread to inform me of this. thanks!

I agree. This article merely states the obvious by drawing all the current information that's already been printed. There is nothing new here. We need to rename this forum. "HDM's Cut and Paste Forum".

I would hope at this point (meaning the info's been out for more than 48 hours) members would show a little more discretion in what articles they choose to start new threads with. Just because the release date and time is current, doesn't mean the information is new.

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

It's funny how MS has not mentioned HD-DVD ONCE in all of CES.

Great another thread with another article about what "could" happen as certain companies are "considering" this or that.

Well duh. I had no idea that HD DVD backers "could" be thinking about their current level of support. I really needed another thread to inform me of this. thanks!

Nobody held a gun to your head and told you to post. If you have nothing constructive to add, please move on. Thanks

Probably because Microsoft's CES keynote came and went and they never even mentioned HD DVD.

Microsoft aren't stupid. They backed the wrong horse, they lost, and they know it.

Completely the opposite, my friend. They knew HD DVD had no chance, so they backed it up to slow down Blu-Ray as much as possible. Sadly their plan failed and BD is now in the clear.

hmm, 110 is still alot of support

This loss is Microsoft's fault. They had the money and didn't bother to further support.
It's really sad. Thanks a lot Bill!

Completely the opposite, my friend. They knew HD DVD had no chance, so they backed it up to slow down Blu-Ray as much as possible. Sadly their plan failed and BD is now in the clear.

That makes ZERO sense. Why weren't they at the table when Warner was trying to sign a deal with HD DVD? Why did they leave Toshiba on their own like all the insides including Amir have said? Wouldn't that have better servered MS on their master conspiracy?

Have you been talking to Olvier Stone about this? Was the CIA involved?
Do you thing Blu-ray was helped by your tin-foil hat?

I have a new name for this site Audio Video Speculation Forum, they wouldn't have to change the acronym AVS and that's why it's so great. All they have to do is let speculation threads like this fill the forum and the let those threads get filled with more speculation.

Wow the speculation is running wild now. I guess Sony is calling some favors in. If they are by spreading this stuff they're doing one hell of a job. In fact I'd encourage them more if only to put Toshiba permanently out of its misery.

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

M$ has no interest in the Disk wars, their interest was uncertainty in the market.... so they could come in and save the day with direct downloads. M$'s position is a straw dog.

I agree. This article merely states the obvious by drawing all the current information that's already been printed. There is nothing new here. We need to rename this forum. "HDM's Cut and Paste Forum".

Have you noticed that 90% of Blu-ray related stuff here was cut and pasted from br.com?

Would the last company out of the HD-DVD Promotion Group please turn out the lights.

Mleh, I really wish I knew how to break anything down here. My guess is that even HD DVD is down, it's not necessarily out, should somebody come out of the woodwork and actually do something. Paramount is only a part of a far bigger company in Viacom, which owns CBS, NBC, MTV, etc... You wouldn't think that they'd put TV series collections on a DL HD DVD, especially highly watched series? How do you think those would hold out?

Have you noticed that 90% of Blu-ray related stuff here was cut and pasted from br.com?....from br.comDid you mean Blu-ray.com? I checked the site you quoted and it is some sort of Brazilian travel agency.

http://www.lanuevacuba.com/graficas/domino-effect-b.jpg :)

Wow the speculation is running wild now. I guess Sony is calling some favors in. If they are by spreading this stuff they're doing one hell of a job. In fact I'd encourage them more if only to put Toshiba permanently out of its misery.

Has it occured to you that the press may be interested in getting the scoop on some of this stuff without needing Sony to prod them along? This is big news in the CE world. It's dominating CES.

microsoft avoided hd dvd at CES. They don't own any patents or vested interest

You mean apart from HDi and VC-1, right?

Has it occured to you that the press may be interested in getting the scoop on some of this stuff without needing Sony to prod them along? This is big news in the CE world. It's dominating CES.

And has it occurred to you that it is a possibility like anything else in this format war. No of course. There is only one possibility according to you.

Have you noticed that 90% of Blu-ray related stuff here was cut and pasted from br.com?

OMFG it's a conspiracy!!!

Do you have AVS set as your homepage and go nowhere else on the internet? It's a legitimate article published on a real news site, so who cares where the OP found it? The article even mentions several interviews, so I don't think it's mere "conjecture".

And has it occurred to you that it is a possibility like anything else in this format war. No of course. There is only one possibility according to you.

Occam's razor.

But go ahead and believe that a Sony conspiracy is the most likely reason the press is reporting all of this stuff. I don't care.

But go ahead and believe that a Sony conspiracy is the most likely reason the press is reporting all of this stuff. I don't care.

It occurs to me that if Sony wielded that much money/influence there would never have been a format war in the first place...

Paramount yesterday emerged as the latest major Hollywood studio poised to switch allegiances.


http://www.mcvuk.com/news/29262/Paramount-denies-Blu-Ray-defectionNews

http://www.mcvuk.com/static/images/news/29262/3428_Paramount.jpg

Paramount denies Blu-Ray defection

Ben Parfitt (http://www.mcvuk.com/email?authorStory=29262&popup=1) Today, 11:37am
Claims that contract clause allows withdrawal in the event of Warner dropping HD-DVD support
Following the recent news that Warner Bros is to drop its support (https://www.mcvuk.com/news/29244/CES-2008-Manufacturers-react-to-Warners-Blu-Ray-backing) of Toshiba’s HD-DVD hi-def movie format, fellow movie studio Paramount has denied that it is to do the same.

Bloomberg (http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=newsarchive&sid=aZzib5lwheBc) reports that US newspapers are claiming that Paramount has a clause in its HD-DVD exclusivity contract that allows it to withdraw if Warner drops its support of the format.

However, Paramount spokesperson Brenda Ciccone told the news agency that “Paramount’s current plan is to continue to support the HD-DVD format”. Toshiba added that the reports are nothing more than speculative.

Following the shock Warner news, share in HD-DVD owning Toshiba fell by 1.4 per cent, whilst Sony’s rose by 3.4 per cent.

It's funny the Paramount thing keeps getting reported as fact, when there is nothing to back it up and they have publicly denied it already.

It occurs to me that if Sony wielded that much money/influence there would never have been a format war in the first place...

Heh.. true.

Occam's razor.

But go ahead and believe that a Sony conspiracy is the most likely reason the press is reporting all of this stuff. I don't care.

It's not about consipiracies. It's about tough business practices. It's about propaganda and getting your story out there. It's about winning the hearts and minds so that the pocket books will follow. You think that multi-billion dollar companies don't play every card they have including calling in favors from the press or undertandings of qui pro quo? That's naivety at best. And Ockham has nothing to do with it.

And if you didn't care why did you respond twice now to my post?

How about Time Warner owning HBO, and New Line? That will give them added push like those other companies Viacom owns.. It's also a misconception that Paramount is a big player in all this, as it is rare for them to produce blockbuster hits. Sad to say I have heard this from people that work for Paramount and Lakeshore Ent. No offense to all you Godfather and Forest Gump fans...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Paramount_Pictures_films

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

You are 100% correct.

Those major hit movies that Microsoft put out last year will surely keep HD-DVD alive.

Those Bill Gates CES films will sell insane amounts of disks.

IF Universal and Paramount started making blu-ray it is assuredly over, more so then now.


As for Paramount...they have stated they will continue to support HD-DVD...but that in no way means that they will not start supporting Blu also, or change their mind. I remember Warner saying they would support both in December last year...and they did not lie...they will be till May.

Universal has not commented...least that I have seen.

Have you noticed that 90% of Blu-ray related stuff here was cut and pasted from br.com?Yup. Gotta wonder which blu boy was elected to submit it.

Wow you guys sure yap a lot for speculative information. Until Paramount or any other HD DVD alliance member leaves go watch a movie, all this speculation is useless.

OMFG it's a conspiracy!!!

Do you have AVS set as your homepage and go nowhere else on the internet? It's a legitimate article published on a real news site, so who cares where the OP found it? The article even mentions several interviews, so I don't think it's mere "conjecture".

Not sure what you are ranting about here. I just pointed out that the same people who post on bluray.com seem to cut and paste ther stuff from there to here. They probably then copy it it hidefdigest too.

Has anyone one else noticed that since the Warner announcement the blu fans are even more touchy than ever? Any little thing seems to set them off.

microsoft avoided hd dvd at CES.

They weren't the only ones.

http://i219.photobucket.com/albums/cc232/ilovezune/blurayhddvd.jpg

What's with the rash of brand spanking new AVS members posting that same image from CES 2008 every chance they get?
That makes ZERO sense. Why weren't they at the table when Warner was trying to sign a deal with HD DVD? Why did they leave Toshiba on their own like all the insides including Amir have said? Wouldn't that have better servered MS on their master conspiracy?

Have you been talking to Olvier Stone about this? Was the CIA involved?
Do you thing Blu-ray was helped by your tin-foil hat?

Exactly. Thanks for making me laugh too. ;)

^^Boy that's a neat pyramid.

^^Boy that's a neat pyramid.

I guess there should be a picture of it collapsing.:eek:

I like how the OP didn't bold this part:

But HD-DVD does retain a few potential trump-cards, most notably Microsoft. It is the presence of Microsoft on HD-DVD’s list of supporters, say many of the promotion group, that preserves hope that the format could yet prevail.

Maybe because MS has revealed it's true agenda in this whole format war:

Warner Brothers said last week it was backing Blu-ray exclusively. Will Microsoft remain committed to the HD DVD format even if it appears that the media companies are backing Blu-ray?
Certainly we supported both Blu-ray and HD DVD as Windows peripherals. The last announcement was Paramount opting for HD DVD and now this one is going the other way. I still think a format battle is going on there. Our contribution is the HDi Interactive format piece has been really well received. We hope to see that used broadly. I think the real competitor in the long run is digital (video) download. Just like in music, it is going to be the biggest of the three.

http://www.alleyinsider.com/2008/01/gates-goodbye-at-ces-celebrity-video-no-news.html

Those comments are very telling in light of recent events, if you ask me. Though, I don't think this should be a surprise to any reasonable person.

Edit: doesn't this thread belong in the rumor mill (http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?t=973178) forum, anyway?

Brandon

It's not about consipiracies. It's about tough business practices. It's about propaganda and getting your story out there. It's about winning the hearts and minds so that the pocket books will follow. You think that multi-billion dollar companies don't play every card they have including calling in favors from the press or undertandings of qui pro quo? That's naivety at best. And Ockham has nothing to do with it.

All I can say is that you must think a LOT of people owe Sony favors.

Too bad nobody seems to owe the multi-billion dollar companies on the other side any favors this week.

You mean apart from HDi and VC-1, right?

Were they the reasons Microsoft backed HD-DVD? Now that we are seeing many titles encoded with VC1 on BD, it's only HDi which will never appear on BD. Perhaps the other reason was HD-DVD integrated more readily in Vista?

It's funny the Paramount thing keeps getting reported as fact, when there is nothing to back it up and they have publicly denied it already.

Warner publicly denied the Blu-ray switch for months beforehand too.

Corporations do not have your best interests at heart, which is a lesson best learned early on.

The Domino Effect.

Dominoes implies something falling one by one. This is more "cockroaches when the light goes on" :p

Wow..............


"and that is all I have to say about that" or something like that.

http://business.timesonline.co.uk/tol/business/industry_sectors/media/article3153038.ece

Time for everyone to jump ship.

Yeah, because Microsoft has been so supportive of HD DVD at CES. Did you read the interview with Gates, or notice that his keynote said nothing about HD DVD (even though it was reported that before the WB announcement a portion of it was allocated to HDM)?

Microsoft is already talking downloads. They are not going to be the knight in shining armor for HD DVD.

Microsoft doesn't give 2 craps about HDDVD.

Probably because Microsoft's CES keynote came and went and they never even mentioned HD DVD.

Microsoft aren't stupid. They backed the wrong horse, they lost, and they know it.

Yes and I'm sure they will be ok supporting Sony that has a console that has even more chance to endanger Xbox 360 with the Blu-Ray drive in there now if Blu-ray wins.

If they evaluate that this Blu-Ray win will give them serious problems with Xbox 360, be rest assured they'll help Toshiba fight this war for a longer at least if nothing to sabotage Blu-Ray so PS3 still remains as a hesitant purchase.

Dominoes implies something falling one by one. This is more "cockroaches when the light goes on" :p

NICE!!!!!

Wow the speculation is running wild now. I guess Sony is calling some favors in. If they are by spreading this stuff they're doing one hell of a job. In fact I'd encourage them more if only to put Toshiba permanently out of its misery.

+1000

Toshiba should leave CE for the big boys.

Well if paramount goes that would be a shame..the Blu Ray victory wasn't by consumer choice rather by back office dealings. For all the reason's why a studio should go Blu or HD-DVD i have never heard one say from actual experience working with both formats that BluRay was simply a better format. If they think slow sales of HD media was due to a format war wait till they see the reception that Blu Ray get's once its the only overpriced option available to an uninterested public.

I must say, I've been an HD DVD supporter only since late '06, but some of the jokes and one-liners from the BR side are pretty damn funny!! :) Sure, they're inappropriate, but I guess I simply don't take this stuff as serious as others. As a matter of fact, I poked fun at my format of choice after the WB announcement, and got an infraction because of it! :eek: Frankly, I hope they all defect as soon as possible to facilitate the advancement of ONE HD format. Regardless of whether or not it EVER surpasses regular DVD in the future.

Did you mean Blu-ray.com? I checked the site you quoted and it is some sort of Brazilian travel agency.

Must be the agency HD-DVD backers are using to get out of town.

Dominoes implies something falling one by one. This is more "cockroaches when the light goes on" :p
This is more "cockroaches when the light goes on"...or rats

I guess there should be a picture of it collapsing.:eek:

:D:D

I am sure this has been mentioned before but I notice that my Blu-Ray PS3 game discs don't scratch nearly as easily 360's game discs. I am not sure of HD-DVDs' resistance to scratches though.

I must say, I've been an HD DVD supporter only since late '06, but some of the jokes and one-liners from the BR side are pretty damn funny!! :) Sure, they're inappropriate, but I guess I simply don't take this stuff as serious as others. As a matter of fact, I poked fun at my format of choice after the WB announcement, and got an infraction because of it! :eek: Frankly, I hope they all defect as soon as possible to facilitate the advancement of ONE HD format. Regardless of whether or not it EVER surpasses regular DVD in the future.

I appreciate you.

Brandon

Thank you :)