Hello. HD newbie here, still trying to learn what I'm doing. I've been reading up on over the air HD channels, and am wondering which type of antenna I should get. My only real experience here is that my parents have a small, multi-directional antenna, and it works great, but they live in a large city close to plenty of stations.

Now I'm trying to set up the same thing for myself at school.

According to AntennaWeb, all the stations I'm interested in are within 3 degrees of each other, and between 30 and 35 miles away. From what I read, this would argue for a moderately strong directional antenna. But, the catch here is that I'm in middle floor of a multi-story college dorm, and my only window faces the exact opposite direction from all those stations. Being in the dorm obviously means indoor antennas are my only option. There have to be several (cinder block, I think) walls between my room and the far side of the dorm.

Am I screwed here? Should I get a strong multi-directional antenna? A strong directional antenna and point it in the right direction anyway? Specific model recommendations would be appreciated. I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but I couldn't find any information relevant to my specific circumstances. Thanks for your help.

Hello. HD newbie here, still trying to learn what I'm doing. I've been reading up on over the air HD channels, and am wondering which type of antenna I should get. My only real experience here is that my parents have a small, multi-directional antenna, and it works great, but they live in a large city close to plenty of stations.

Now I'm trying to set up the same thing for myself at school.

According to AntennaWeb, all the stations I'm interested in are within 3 degrees of each other, and between 30 and 35 miles away. From what I read, this would argue for a moderately strong directional antenna. But, the catch here is that I'm in middle floor of a multi-story college dorm, and my only window faces the exact opposite direction from all those stations. Being in the dorm obviously means indoor antennas are my only option. There have to be several (cinder block, I think) walls between my room and the far side of the dorm.

Am I screwed here? Should I get a strong multi-directional antenna? A strong directional antenna and point it in the right direction anyway? Specific model recommendations would be appreciated. I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but I couldn't find any information relevant to my specific circumstances. Thanks for your help.

Depending on your location and window orientation, you might be able to get a different group of transmitters. I'm guessing that the transmitters you're talking about are the ones from Norfolk. If you're facing away from Norfolk, then you might actually be facing toward the Richmond transmitters. See attached image.

If you enter a very high altitude (~300 ft. or more) under "options" on the antennaweb form, you might coax it to give you a more comprehensive list of channels for your location.

In any case, your best bet is to get a good directional antenna and point it at either Norfolk or Richmond. As long as the building is not covered in metal (including any reflective film sometimes used on windows), then there's still a chance that enough signal will pass through the building to be picked up by a good antenna. It all depends on what your building is made of (including plumbing, steel beams, air ducts, and many other unseen RF obstacles) and that's usually difficult to tell from a visual inspection.

Better antennas will improve your chances, but if you want to start from the minimum and work your way up, you can start with something like the Terk HDTVi (indoor style antenna), then the Antennas Direct DB2 (small outdoor style antenna), and then the Channel Master 4228 (large outdoor style antenna). You'll get more antenna pulling power as you go with the larger antennas, but then aesthetics and antenna placement become more of an issue.

There's no way to tell if it will work other than trying it and experimenting. For that reason, make sure you only purchase equipment from places with a good return policy. In case nothing works out, you can at least get some of your money back.

Best regards,
Andy

Thanks for the hint about raising the altitude to get Antenna Web to show me more stations. I'm going to have to try the Richmond stations, they are directly out my window. Fingers crossed ...

And how about the Terk HDTVa? It looks like the HDTVi, only amplified, which could be a good thing for me, trying to pull in these far away Richmond stations.

I had Terk non-amplified for one week and sold it back via ebay. Now I've a RS amplified 15-2186 outdoor antenna (but kept it indoor since it's so small) that could pick up Philly stations 60 miles away but have problems with couple low power stations from NYC 30-35 miles out.

Scratched...

He's in a dorm room - he won't be putting that antenna outside at all.

He's in a dorm room - he won't be putting that antenna outside at all.

Sorry... I completely friggin blanked.

Dorm... get a room on a higher floor. Dorm on a hill if there is one one campus. Worked great for me in college. Also, I had a roommate who didn't mind the antenna.

Thanks for the hint about raising the altitude to get Antenna Web to show me more stations. I'm going to have to try the Richmond stations, they are directly out my window. Fingers crossed ...

And how about the Terk HDTVa? It looks like the HDTVi, only amplified, which could be a good thing for me, trying to pull in these far away Richmond stations.

Or, with a little time, basic tools, and some wood and wire you could build a very good little antenna. I built one of these out of old wood and copper wire and my daughter thought it was very "rustic" looking.:rolleyes: I built the 4-bay rather than the 2-bay, but reports on the 2-bay are very good and most of the time outperforms retail offerings.

Anyhow, the antenna works well so you might want to give it a shot. Being as the antenna will be indoors it doesn't have to be built weatherproof so you have some flexibility with materials. Here is a link to the plans, etc.,... http://www.lumenlab.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=9613&st=0

Another thought about reception is that you may have some multipath, reflections, etc., from nearby buildings or whatever that might actually help your situation...until you get an antenna hooked up you really don't know what you may have. :) My most distant station that I pickup with my CM4228, which is only 18' high, is around 67 miles away. The interesting thing is that my brick house is directly in between the antenna and the transmitter antenna. Go figure, eh? :)

Best wishes on your project,
Ed

And how about the Terk HDTVa? It looks like the HDTVi, only amplified, which could be a good thing for me, trying to pull in these far away Richmond stations.

If the length of cable between the antenna and the TV is very short (say under 15 feet), then the amplifier won't really do you any good.

An amp cannot improve the intrinsic quality of an antenna. The main purpose of an amp is to overcome any signal degradation caused by cable-loss, splitters, and other things placed between the amp and the receiver. If you have a crappy antenna feeding the amp, then the amp will simply boost a crappy signal and cannot do anything to improve its quality.

In other words, the antenna itself determines the peak signal quality you can extract out of the air and the amp helps you preserve as much of that quality as possible without giving it up to cable-loss, splitters, and other things that follow.

The reason you don't always use an amp is because the amp itself introduces a small amount of noise that causes a slight drop in signal quality. If your cable run is very short and you do not have any splitters in the path, then an unamplified antenna will actually perform better than an amplified one (assuming the antennas themselves are identical).

An amp becomes increasingly relevant only if you have significant signal loss going on between the antenna and your receiver. Just keep in mind that it's not always worth the extra cost.

Best regards,
Andy

Consumer and commercial DTV receiver tuners have historically had horrific noise figures, typically 8 to 10dB, so if you connect a low noise (read: under 3dB, $60 or more) preamp to an unamplified antenna, you can sometimes improve reception reliability. For that to be beneficial, your antenna signals need to fall into a rather narrow strength range.

There is a Winegard preamp with just 12dB gain that has worked well for some forum members in that application. The amplification problem encountered most often with preamplifiers is that people tend to select the highest gain preamp, but then, the stronger stations develop a variety of intermodulation byproducts that degrade the weaker signals. Fortunately, if this poster's location is far from any local transmitters, as the map depicts, then he will be unlikely to experience the phenomenon of strong stations beating up the weak ones in his amplifier. But while kamcma's signal levels are likely within a strength range that might enable them to be better suited to tuning if they are externally preamplified, he also likely has what I might call "blur multipath", so distinct from having one strong, direct transmission path component and one less strong reflected component, so he will likely always be dealing with an exasperating situation in which his pictures go from perfect to unwatchable, as digital signal processing incurs "avalanche" failure characteristics. If he really need whatever off-air HDTV reception he can attain, he might have to find different "sweet spots" for different channels, and even then, they might tend to drift around within his room. There is no reliable way for him to improve his situation simply by spending money.

But, the catch here is that I'm in middle floor of a multi-story college dorm, and my only window faces the exact opposite direction from all those stations.

A couple of options

1) Maybe there are weaker stations in that opposite direction. Check tvfool.com Sure, you can't put an antenna outside, but a CM4228 taking up the window won't look too out of place in a dorm.

2) Know anyone with a window facing the other direction? Perhaps you could work something out. There's probably enough holes in the walls already. Check above the ceiling if it's a drop ceiling, but if not make sure the RA isn't around when you break out the masonry bit :-). (note smiley. Is joke. Do not drill through dorm walls, or they might kick you out).

An amp cannot improve the intrinsic quality of an antenna. The main purpose of an amp is to overcome any signal degradation caused by cable-loss, splitters, and other things placed between the amp and the receiver. If you have a crappy antenna feeding the amp, then the amp will simply boost a crappy signal and cannot do anything to improve its quality.

Andy, it seems that an amp can help raise the signal to a level required for the threshold of the receiver, can it not? Is this the same as overcoming the receiver's noise figure?

I will have to do some more tests, but it certainly seems like amps have helped me on short cable run tests (under 6 feet).

Thanks for the help, everyone. As you have gathered, I am in Williamsburg, VA. I'm not at school right now (going back in a few days) so right now I can't test anything we're talking about, I was just trying to get some information so I can hopefully get things working as quickly as possible when I get back.

Originally I had thought I would be going for the Norfolk, VA signals, simply because they were closest. And I will definitely still try them. However, they are in the wrong direction, and the signals that are in the correct, opposite direction are the Richmond, VA signals. These signals, unlike the Norfolk signals which are about 30 miles away, are between 45 and 60 miles away.

So, it seems like each option has a disadvantage, distance or obstruction. Which one proves to be the least disadvantagous, I guess I will know when I can do some testing next week.


On another note, my antenna cable will indeed be shorter than 15', so it seems like there is some difference of opinion as to whether or not an amp will do me any good?

So, it seems like each option has a disadvantage, distance or obstruction. Which one proves to be the least disadvantagous, I guess I will know when I can do some testing next week.

I have found obstructions to be far damaging than distance. I don't see any hills of substance between Williamsburg and Richmond. If there aren't any buildings in the way or other local obstructions, then Richmond will probably be your best bet.

~51 miles is not much of a problem, even for UHF, if you have line of sight.

For now, the Richmond DTV stations are on UHF, though WWBT (NBC) will be going back to VHF-12 next year.

Something like a Channel Master 4221 may get the job done, though it's probably best to try something really basic at first to see what you get.

Andy, it seems that an amp can help raise the signal to a level required for the threshold of the receiver, can it not? Is this the same as overcoming the receiver's noise figure?

I will have to do some more tests, but it certainly seems like amps have helped me on short cable run tests (under 6 feet).

You bring up a good point.

Yes, an amp can also help you overcome the noise figure at the first stage LNA in your TV's tuner. Whether you see a benefit or not depends on how good the front-end of your tuner is.

In general, the amps built into a lot of consumer grade antennas are cheap and have very high noise figures. The better choice depends on which is the lesser of two evils, your amp's noise figure, or the combined cable-loss plus tuner noise figure.

For short cable runs, you're unlikely to see a difference of more than a few dB either way. If you're at a point where those few dB makes the difference between getting a channel or not, then you're too close to the edge and should probably switch to an attic/roof installation and/or a better antenna.

For long cable runs, it's more likely that an amp will help more than it hurts.

Another risk with amps is over-amplification and overload. This can create intermodulation products and other effects that can make a channel un-watchable. Even if all the TV transmitters are far away, these effect can be triggered by other sources like nearby FM transmitters. It only takes one strong signal to ruin things across the entire TV band. An un-amplified antenna is unlikely to ever have a problem with these issues.

In my experience, going with un-amplified antennas for short distances is usually the better and cheaper way to go. There can always be exceptions to this, but the difference is usually quite small either way you go.

Best regards,
Andy

Hello. HD newbie here, still trying to learn what I'm doing. I've been reading up on over the air HD channels, and am wondering which type of antenna I should get. My only real experience here is that my parents have a small, multi-directional antenna, and it works great, but they live in a large city close to plenty of stations.

Now I'm trying to set up the same thing for myself at school.

According to AntennaWeb, all the stations I'm interested in are within 3 degrees of each other, and between 30 and 35 miles away. From what I read, this would argue for a moderately strong directional antenna. But, the catch here is that I'm in middle floor of a multi-story college dorm, and my only window faces the exact opposite direction from all those stations. Being in the dorm obviously means indoor antennas are my only option. There have to be several (cinder block, I think) walls between my room and the far side of the dorm.

Am I screwed here? Should I get a strong multi-directional antenna? A strong directional antenna and point it in the right direction anyway? Specific model recommendations would be appreciated. I'm sorry if this has been addressed before, but I couldn't find any information relevant to my specific circumstances. Thanks for your help.

Buy the Radioshack indoor amplified antenna for $20. This is the best one I've tested.