.

It can be used as a front projector with the right lenses. You have to check and see what is on it now. Likely it will be limited to a very small screen without a lens change. I would go over and do a search on Curt Palmes forum, some people there are experimenting with the Barco retroblocks as front projectors

The 808s is a very nice machine and will throw a much better picture than a DWIN will.

Erik

Then it should work fine for you. However before you get it I would check this and see if you really do get a focused image at this size. $1,500 is a good price for an 8" LC machine, however being a retro does drop the value a little bit I'd offer him 1k and see if he bites. Curt was selling a bunch of these a few months ago for $750, however the ones he had were about 3k hours on the chassis and had funky short throw lenses on them.

Erik

You are aware just how big and blocky the retro block is?

Otherwise, go for it, it will absolutely hammer an ES AC 7"er like a Dwin.

This unit has the same specs as a Cine8 Onyx.

The best part here: Manufactured in 1st quarter of 2001. So you have the latest videochain in it. Plus the advantage to have the superb sharp P16LNP tubes inside.

The HD-117-12 lens are written to be only able to do a max. SW of 1,53m according the Barco lens software. That's not true ! I have tested it myself and you can focus the center and all edges very perfect to a screen width of 2,7m.

So in my opinion, go for it. I know what i'm talking about cause i have this beast already brand new with 100 hours on the tubes, yihhhaaaaaaaaaa :D

This unit has the same specs as a Cine8 Onyx.
Except color filtering.

The HD-117-12 lens are written to be only able to do a max. SW of 1,53m according the Barco lens software. That's not true ! I have tested it myself and you can focus the center and all edges very perfect to a screen width of 2,7m.
Are you sure you don't have HD-117-24 or HD214? Those should focus 2,7 m wide nicely. My HD-117-12 focus only up to about 1,8 m wide, if I remember correctly.

I'm absolutely sure about focusing that screen width of 2,7m and lenses are HD-117-12.

Color filtering is not a problem at all. Just buy LEE color filters and pack them between LC element and lens. You need primary red (106) and primary green (139).
Only negative on this: You loose light output, but anyway. With brand new tubes there should be no prob in brightness and contrast !

So why pay a lot on c-elements if you can get it cheap ?

I paid for both about 5$.

Next week a will get my new screen with a sw=2,6m (16/9). Then things will roll...... :cool:

ElTopo

How loud are those Barco's?

Ben

They are a little bit louder than normal Onyx because you don't have a plastic case to shield the fan noise. But in my opinion not very loud compared to other CRT's

ElTopo

I'm absolutely sure about focusing that screen width of 2,7m and lenses are HD-117-12.

Color filtering is not a problem at all. Just buy LEE color filters and pack them between LC element and lens. You need primary red (106) and primary green (139).
Only negative on this: You loose light output, but anyway. With brand new tubes there should be no prob in brightness and contrast !

So why pay a lot on c-elements if you can get it cheap ?

I paid for both about 5$.

Next week a will get my new screen with a sw=2,6m (16/9). Then things will roll...... :cool:

ElTopo

You did this?

Surely it is impossible. The rear of the lens is curved - if you put a filter in there it will get bent and distorted by the lens, possibly folding over. And it will wear the anti-reflective coating off the lens/c-element. And possibly stuff the focus.

This sounds like a very bad idea to me.

I found a thread on Curt's site where a guy made one into a bed. Could I make this work on a 80x45 inch 92" screen?I spent 20 mins trying to find this thread and failed... got a link?

Kal

Thanks! Completely missed that one!

Kal

Guess I know someone else with one of those 100-hour retroblocks now!

I have one and it's working great. All 3 lenses are HD117-12 which should only do 67" but I don't see any problems on my 80" wide RP screen. Front projection is selectable just like any other 808s so don't worry about that. The rest of the guts are the newer 808s style electronics with the 120MHz MEC neckboards and P16 tubes. Way quieter than my Marquees. The only bad thing so far is the ugly chassis.

Don't mess with trying to add filtering to the HD117s unless you replace the c-element. Unfortunately I haven't found any evidence that tinted HD117 c-elements exist.

-Matt

No, you can't tint the glycol because the depth of the glycol changes, meaning the degree of tint would change.

Just a little note to add on both color filtering and lenses... You can swap the C elements for a set of colored ones from a Sony G70 and use HD-18 lenses. It does require a little modification to the lens base of the HD-18... If he is still available and set up to do them, Galen Bridges does a wonderful job on that.

Regards,
Adam

Yeah, but HD-18s and C elements hardly grow on trees...took me ages for find lenses for my XG LC conversion. And it would cost around $400 I guess.

Very true... A new set of all 3 C elements from 3M will run you about $360. YIKES...

Did 3M ever make tinted c-elements for the HD117? I think I remember reading somewhere in here that they didn't. Too bad though. Personally, I think the HD117 is awfully sharp lens although I was using some beat up HD-8's before.

Reio-ta:
One other consideration for the HD117: It has a really short throw. My projection distance was about 70% of my Marquee with an HD-8.

A shorter throw will not yield you a brighter image. However, reducing your screen size will give you a brighter image.

-Mark

84" wide should be plenty sharp.

The C-element is a lens behind the lense found only on LC projectors, some C-elements are tinted to allow your projector to produce better colors. However if you don't ever see a CRT projector with filtered colors you may never know the difference and be fine without filtered colors.

Erik

My new screen is on its way, so photos can be made on weekend or next week i guess.

The projector is still in its "ugly" case, but an advantage for me is that the case does not fill much room space.

One word to the LEE color filters: Why not put them directly in front of the lens ?

I will get the LEE filters this week, will post pics asap.

@spitz
Only green were made for HD117/HD114 ( //archive2.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=7554772#post7554772)

@reio-ta
In front of the picture are 801 L-shape OEM blocks

Here (//img125.imageshack.us/img125/2849/lenzen1gp9.jpg) can be seen the difference between HD117-12 (second from left) and HD117-24 (third)
and here (//img404.imageshack.us/img404/1293/celementhd18vshd117aj2.jpg]) difference between a green C-element from HD18 and clear HD117/HD114

@ELTopo
Do you have a picture from your HD117-12 lens which do > 67" (168 cm) wide.


Wil


I need more postings before I can post complete URL's, i removed http: to allow me to post

Attached the label of the lens.

code: 2000102700210025


ElTopo

Hi Wil, how's the blend coming along, LOL.

@ Eltopo
Sorry, I did mean the back end of the lens, the first lens element.

@donaldK
Blend is still not much, I have only the two modified 800's.:D
For the 801s I need one more chassis and time to re-glue the 3 or 4 sets LC housings, because the scheimpflug's and TCL's musst changed for my setup, because they are from retro's
For the 808s, I am still waiting on the 2 sets scheimpflug adjustable housings and one set HD18's, from both I have the info that they are shipped.
I have no two good sets PT18-205 for the start.

Wil

I think that would work. Where would you find color filtered port glass though?

I think that might lead to a slight loss in focus. But I would try it and see if the tradeoff is worth it to you

Have a look on the back panel, I have a retroblock that has a big sticker with 0 degrees on it (a 0 with a smaller 0 top left for the superscript way of writing degree, no html tag here for it).
I will post a picture later if needed.

If it has that sticker it means you cannot use it for anything other than zero degree projection so the centre of the lenses and tubes need to be at the same height as the centre of the screen.

They are called Retro blocks for a reason...it's not designed for FP !!! (???)

I don't get it. One minute a NEC, then a Dwin, because the NEC was too big...but now a RETRO BLOCK?

Just get a normal projector.

Sitting a bit closer than 'the ideal' viewing distance is not a problem, I do it all the time with my old Sony VPH1000QM, my seats are each side and slightly in front of where it projects from, sitting on top of an old microwave oven, about 40cm off the floor.

I originally had it projecting from just above the seats before I moved to where I am now, it used to be further back and I had an approximately 3.5 metre wide picture then, now I get a 2.8 metre wide picture as it is not as far back.
I have considered doing this again but I need to find something to sit the PJ on and then have the back tilted up a bit and re-converge it to suit the different projection angle.

I actually consider this to be 'the ideal' viewing distance. :rolleyes:

Everyones preference varies.

When I get my retroblock up and running I will have it projecting from just above the height of the seats like I originally did with the Sony because of the zero degree projection it needs but mine has the HD117-24 lenses and I would get a much bigger screen at that distance.
I get a 2.8 metre wide screen with the Sony, I would get a 3.5 metre wide screen with the retroblock so it will be placed a bit closer but still between the seats so I get about 2.8 metres wide as that is about all I can use in this room and I won't have to drive it too hard to get a bright picture like I would at 3.5 metres wide.

How the hell are you supposed to use this thing in FP mode? :confused:Use washers under lenses or reglue lc chambers to calculated or tested angle.

Noisy video chain power supply? Not if you get a LC model XG.
If you add a 27ohm 1 watt resistor in series with the deflection fan, the XG has basically the same fan noise as most other CRTs (been ages since I've seen/heard a Barco).

1292 can have issues, streaking and delaminating green tubes, but if you get a good one, the noise is the only issue.

You won't find a Zenith 1200x.

I still think a G70 is best for you.

G70 With the fan mod done

My new screen arrived. Hopefully i can get the Retro setup up this weekend and make some screenshots.

ElTopo

Unfortunately I haven't found any evidence that tinted HD117 c-elements exist.


I am very much not an expert on this subject, but I had a set of Barco Retro LC hardware once fitted with HD-117-12 lenses (still have), a set of colored c-elements from a Sony G70 and a set of HD-215 lenses. The HD-215 were supposed to fit the Barco LC hardware and they did. I compared the clear c-elements that came with the LC hardware to my Sony G70 c-elements and they appeared identical. They fit perfectly and were, so far as I could see, identical in size and shape, plus both the HD-117-12 and HD-215 lenses fit. To anyone who might be interested, I recently sold them (and if you were interested, where were you when I had them for sale for quite a while?).

I am very much not an expert on this subject, but I had a set of Barco Retro LC hardware once fitted with HD-117-12 lenses (still have), a set of colored c-elements from a Sony G70 and a set of HD-215 lenses. The HD-215 were supposed to fit the Barco LC hardware and they did. I compared the clear c-elements that came with the LC hardware to my Sony G70 c-elements and they appeared identical. They fit perfectly and were, so far as I could see, identical in size and shape, plus both the HD-117-12 and HD-215 lenses fit. To anyone who might be interested, I recently sold them (and if you were interested, where were you when I had them for sale for quite a while?).
Obviously not in the right place at the right time or not looking in the right place at the right time. :(

I am guessing they would also fit the HD117-24 lenses so if you get any more send me a PM and we can talk business. ;)

What are the HD-215 lenses like compared to what I have (HD117-24), what projection ratio do they have and what width screen can they produce?

The HD-215 is the lens used on the Barco 808 Onyx and the Zenith Pro 1200 (a rebadged 808). I never actually used the HD-215 lens - I abandoned my LC project, don't have the specs and now they're sold also - but the buyer did and said they worked very well on his 110" (I think) screen, except that corner focus wasn't as good as he'd like. It is my understanding that the HD117-24 is a better lens. And that's all I know about that.

Hello Alan... sorry to hear you didn't got to do the LC conversion. I still haven't done one on the 808 in the garage. The C elements from a G-70 are a slightly different "perscription" than the ones for HD-117 lenses. (according to 3M) Terry first discovered this when doing his 808 LC conversion. If memory serves me correctly, it was the corners that wouldn't focus properly. That is where the need for the HD-18 lenses come into play... I never tried them with the HD-117, so I can't say just how much out of focus the corners are...

Adam