I've been searching for opinions on this topic and can't find much information. But my question lies in the necessity of an HDMI capable AVR.

There are some great deals out there on used AVR's from the 2000-2002 time period--very high quality equipment, but lacking HDMI. My question is: If I want to build a high quality home theater on a budget, should I consider AVR's without HDMI?

I have a Samsung HL-T6187S and watch DVD's using OPPO's DV-981HD via HDMI. I also plan to eventually acquire some sort of HD player (Maybe just a PS3 at some point). What would I be losing if I connect the video via HDMI to my TV and run the audio to my receiver with an optical or digital cable? Am I going to run into sync issues?

I'm looking at a Denon AVR-3801 for a pretty good price, but maybe I should just wait and get something that can handle HDMI? It would be great to hear some informed opinions on this. Thanks.

Run all your HDMI sources directly to your TV and let it do the switching.

Turn off the speakers on your TV. Run an optical Toslink cable from your TV back to your AVR for the audio.

That'll work perfectly for all your current sources.

With the PS3/BD player, you will not benefit from the newest most exotic audio formats but "for now" and in a 'budget theatre' ... who cares!?

I just picked up a used Denon AVR 3802 for very little money. I could not be happier with my 5.1 system. I have my Panny Blu-Ray going to the Denon using both analog and optical for audio and using HDMI cable to the plasma for video and TV audio.

The 3801 has 7.1 analog audio inputs, so you could get a Blu-ray player with 7.1 outputs (my Panasonic DMP-BD10A has them), and hook it up that way. The BD10A also decodes TrueHD and DTS-HD (but not MA), so you could get most of the higher bitrate audio formats to the 3801 without having to use HDMI. Most BD players don't have multichannel analog outputs, nor do they decode TrueHD or other newer surround formats, so you'd need to be sure of the capabilities of the BD player you bought. Of course, the BD player doesn't need a decoder for movies with multichannel LPCM tracks, which a large number of BD movies have.

I've been searching for opinions on this topic and can't find much information. But my question lies in the necessity of an HDMI capable AVR.

There are some great deals out there on used AVR's from the 2000-2002 time period--very high quality equipment, but lacking HDMI. My question is: If I want to build a high quality home theater on a budget, should I consider AVR's without HDMI?

I have a Samsung HL-T6187S and watch DVD's using OPPO's DV-981HD via HDMI. I also plan to eventually acquire some sort of HD player (Maybe just a PS3 at some point). What would I be losing if I connect the video via HDMI to my TV and run the audio to my receiver with an optical or digital cable? Am I going to run into sync issues?

I'm looking at a Denon AVR-3801 for a pretty good price, but maybe I should just wait and get something that can handle HDMI? It would be great to hear some informed opinions on this. Thanks.


You only lose digital high-res audio. Sync should still be okay. You can easily connect SPDIF to the receiver. You will get full surround sound, however you can't get high-res audio tracks this way for titles that have high-res audio. However, you will get full regular DD/DTS bitrates which are higher than DVD, so you will get a bit better than what you find on most all DVDs, but not full high-res. However, if the receiver has pre-ins, you could also get a HD-DVD/BRD player with onboard decoding, and simply run 6 or 8 analog cables to the pre-ins on your receiver and get full high res audio. Receiver adjustment functionality will likely be minimal and limited to mainly what the player can do, but you'll get high-res.

The BD10A also decodes TrueHD and DTS-HD (but not MA), so you could get most of the higher bitrate audio formats to the 3801 without having to use HDMI. Most BD players don't have multichannel analog outputs, nor do they decode TrueHD or other newer surround formats, so you'd need to be sure of the capabilities of the BD player you bought.

Have you tried DVD-Audio in your BD10A? If so how do you like it and how much bass management is in the menus? I'm looking hard at this player given it's 7.1 analog outputs.

Run all your HDMI sources directly to your TV and let it do the switching.

Turn off the speakers on your TV. Run an optical Toslink cable from your TV back to your AVR for the audio.

That'll work perfectly for all your current sources.

With the PS3/BD player, you will not benefit from the newest most exotic audio formats but "for now" and in a 'budget theatre' ... who cares!?

In most cases, this won't work. The Toslink audio output is only connected to the TV's tuner and the audio from HDMI sources will not be sent to the Toslink output.

The manual for the 6187 is not specific on this point, but in general, the Toslink output is for cases where the TV is used for an OTA tuner and you need to get the 5.1 broadcast audio to your AVR. Other Samsung manuals are pretty specific on this point.

First of all, thanks to everyone for the great information. Using the pre-ins is a great alternative to get the high res audio--too bad the PS3 isn't an option for that though.

Run all your HDMI sources directly to your TV and let it do the switching.

That is also a great idea, but I wonder if this is true:
In most cases, this won't work. The Toslink audio output is only connected to the TV's tuner and the audio from HDMI sources will not be sent to the Toslink output.

Regardless, it doesn't look like anyone thinks that sync would be an issue when sending HDMI to the TV and a separate audio cable to the AVR. So while not perfect, it looks like there are some work-arounds.

Again, appreciate the feedback (and any other thoughts on the subject).

Run an optical Toslink cable from your TV back to your AVR for the audio.
Most all TVs will only pass a 2-channel downmix via their optical outputs. Very few will pass an unmpolested 5.1 DD/DTS signal. The optical output, in most cases, is there for passing 5.1 audio via the TV's OTA tuner.

edit: ooops, sorry, I see that this was already pointed out