You probably know that Sony took orders for it's XBR5 rear projection set starting sometime around September. It canceled production of all it's rear projection sets without notice a week or so ago. A dealer here has a stand they shipped without a TV and it will have to go back.

The same dealer has a couple of Sony XBR2 front projectors he will sell for about $5K. I'm sure XBR5 models would be twice that.

My thought is: Do I really want to buy from a company that does business this way? Suppose it decides to no longer support LCOS and parts for my projector dry up?

You probably know that Sony took orders for it's XBR5 rear projection set starting sometime around September. It canceled production of all it's rear projection sets without notice a week or so ago. A dealer here has a stand they shipped without a TV and it will have to go back.

The same dealer has a couple of Sony XBR2 front projectors he will sell for about $5K. I'm sure XBR5 models would be twice that.

My thought is: Do I really want to buy from a company that does business this way? Suppose it decides to no longer support LCOS and parts for my projector dry up?

I would read it as a company that knows how to make the tough business decisions when it is necessary. You just happened to be affected by this one. If they make good business decisions, then any product they continue to make will be backed by a solid company in my book. No fanboy here, I've just seen the other side of it and sometimes this happens. Sony has a long history of building high quality products, so I'd have no problem buying products from them. I just bought a PS3 and I think it's a great product so far. It's the only Sony product I have at this time, though.

Floyster, welcome to the real world..:(

This is now typical for all manufacturers, large and small. More or less. Look at the bottom lines of these companies, they are not making money. Every manufacturer wants you to buy new, forget about repairing the old. Try calling InFocus one day and try to buy something other than the bulb. Get a price on repairing an Infocus X1 projector. It's a joke. No surprise that Sony is doing the same thing that everyone else has for the last 5 years or so.

Intelligent people don't buy Sony products, especially not expensive Sony products.

But how is Toshiba, Panasonic and everyone else any different really? Blu Ray haters aside..;)

Intelligent people don't buy Sony products, especially not expensive Sony products.


I think you need to delete your post.
If you don't like Sony that is yours but insulting others for buying choices is bizarre. In fact brand hating or liking is NOT very intelligent IMO.

Now that was funny!

Does either of those companies actually make stuff in North America? I'd be really surprised...

Don't like Japanese TV companies? That's why I say buy from Syntax-Brillian or Westinghouse. They're the only two American companies left. If you hate Americans, buy from Phillips, they're Dutch. If you hate the Dutch, well, buy from Samsung. If you hate Koreans, then well, you're pretty much SOL and ran out of companies.

I heard the name Westinghouse was bought by an asian firm and it's really a front in a sense that they are using the well known US brand to sell TVs here. I wondered why you'd want to use Westinghouse in any case. I don't think high-tech when I hear Westinghouse.

There's nothing wrong with hating brands. I hate McDonalds, but I buy from Carl's Jr, both of them are American, but McDonalds can go to hell. I have my own personal reasons. That's what so great about being a consumer, having choice to hate for stupid reasons.

I don't think the objection was over hating brands, it was the assertion that anyone who bought Sony products wasn't intelligent. I guess I'm a moron because I'm loving my PS3 and have no problem with what they charge for it relative to my other options.

who knows if it is even close to accurate or not, but ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Digital_Electronics

A product was dropped from the line has nothing to do with thrust worthyness. It is all matter of survival now a day. In fact he should be thankfull that did not get a product that had no demand for its resale and/or part situation.

Sony prices are, in reality, set by market demand in long run or they go shut. In fact I have find their service too expensive but then again that has marketing behind it. It is a throw away society now.

Well I think that part of Sony dropping all RPTVs is just them again being asleep at the wheel. They did it before when they refused to see the growing demand for flat panels, once too late they did not have any of their own, so they buy the glass from other companies. ( I hear samsung mostly.) But then again they did give us a few of the last best CRT direct views before they killed them all too.

Sony does seem to live buy two things ... denial ... and the knee jerk reaction.

:-)

Has anyone else notices that with how much of everyday life is disposable, that this mentality has bled over to how we view many thing in the world that should not be? how many people view or are viewed as disposable?

Sorry if I am getting too metaphysical or something. :-P

Hey RGBHV, you're sharing my 5 year old soapbox. :D

I've been saying this for about 5 years. Seems that no one is buying anything to last, maybe because nothing is built that way any more.

who knows if it is even close to accurate or not, but ...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westinghouse_Digital_Electronics

Westinghouse has been CMO for a few years. In Europe CMO first launched the Mirai brand and last August they moved on to the CHIMEI brand.

Intelligent people don't buy Sony products, especially not expensive Sony products.


My respect for you just went down a notch Dragan - there are plenty of good quality Sony products - especially the ES range.

Insulting other's choices just ain't cricket.

Has anyone else notices that with how much of everyday life is disposable, that this mentality has bled over to how we view many thing in the world that should not be? how many people view or are viewed as disposable?

Sorry if I am getting too metaphysical or something. :-P

That "mentality" is driven by a couple factors. First, a lot of the products we buy are so technically complicated that a "field technician" couldn't fix it if they wanted to - like they used to. So, the only option is to replace components, but the problem is that the key to cost efficiencies is integration. The more you integrate, the larger the component that needs to be replaced when something breaks, hence the cost makes it not worthwhile to replace. Further, by the time the technology breaks, you can get more functionality for less money by simply buying a new one. As a result, what else would you do?

This isn't a bad thing as long as we have a good approach for recycling the used components.

My respect for you just went down a notch Dragan - there are plenty of good quality Sony products - especially the ES range.Insulting other's choices just ain't cricket. well boo-hoo, let me break out the hanky's.
I was specifically refering to new sony TV's and projectors and yes, I still think anyone who shells out a lot of money for one of those isn't the brightest bulb on the ceiling. Look what happened to all the suckers who bought a Qualia for $30k.
Lets face it there are much better choices from both JVC and Pannasonic, 2 large companies with decent reputations.

well boo-hoo, let me break out the hanky's.
I was specifically refering to new sony TV's and projectors and yes, I still think anyone who shells out a lot of money for one of those isn't the brightest bulb on the ceiling. Look what happened to all the suckers who bought a Qualia for $30k.
Lets face it there are much better choices from both JVC and Pannasonic, 2 large companies with decent reputations.

Oh I hate Panasonic and JVC.:D:D

Intelligent people don't buy Sony products, especially not expensive Sony products.

Hmmmm...and what is your IQ? :D

It's well and good to complain that "Dangit, things ain't like they used to, ain't got no value no more" but essentially that's a luddite line. You don't like that you don't get a $750 digital PJ repaired, when you know damned well that it's $30 to ship it, it's only got one board in it, and the only reason it costs $750 rather than $7500 is economy of scale and automated production? That's ridiculous!

The argument that things being "thrown away" means they're somehow less valuable to the world is a red herring. It's the same argument people used when mass production came along. "Now you just buy shovels and never get 'em repaired, you just throw 'em out." It's the same argument - when you paid $500 for that shovel you fixed it. Now it's not worth it.

Without those throwaway digital projectors, and without incredibly cheap unrepairable electronics in general, I wouldn't have a business or a career.

And the fact that it's not worth it is a wonderful, wonderful thing.

You want to go back to the old days? In the 'old days' (which seems to be the mid '80s or early '90s in this context) I could only dream about having a color monitor. A single color monitor - a 14" color monitor was so far out of possibility to buy or own that it was ridiculous.

I haven't got all THAT much more money now, but I've got no fewer than five CRT/LCD displays and two projectors in my office. Computers are inexpensive enough, thanks to that mass production that makes them not worth repairing (You'd prefer that motherboards had components the size of grapes?), that I can have a computer dedicated to my HT and a computer dedicated to running audio in my house. I've got a computer in my microwave, fifty computers in my car, a computer in my CRT RPTV, and none of those can be repaired. Is this bad? Would I prefer to have paid $15,000 for a microwave so I can have someone repair it 25 years later?

Fifteen years ago you were hot **** if you just HAD a computer. Thirty years ago it was impossible because they were HAND BUILT. And damned straight you got them repaired. Is that better?

You wouldn't get your HDDVD/BluRay player repaired - again, it makes no sense; it's one board and one mechanical component. Do you propose going back to the days of the hundred pound VCR?

Technology improves, and there are casualties of that improvement. But unless you're prepared to throw out the other *vast* effects of that improvement (cough, forums, cough) complaining about a finely selected category of them you have a personal interest in is either willfully myopic or hypocritical.

well boo-hoo, let me break out the hanky's.
I was specifically refering to new sony TV's and projectors and yes, I still think anyone who shells out a lot of money for one of those isn't the brightest bulb on the ceiling. Look what happened to all the suckers who bought a Qualia for $30k.

Look at the people who buy a speaker for $30k. You're talking about a people problem, not a sony problem. They just happen to say they're in the high end market as well as the 'consumer' market - this isn't about Sony per se, it's just that EVERY company doing high end ****s their customers, because that's what their customers WANT. I'm not sure it's stupid so much as kinky...

Oh I hate Panasonic and JVC.:D:D I don't hate sony, i just don't support them.

Hmmmm...and what is your IQ? :Di'm pretty sure it's larger than my shoe size ;)

Look at the people who buy a speaker for $30k. You're talking about a people problem, not a sony problem. I have never heard of a $30k set of speakers becoming 100% obsolete in 12 months. If you buy a set of expensive speakers they hold their value for at least 10 years if not longer. My first set of nice speakers cost $450. in 1992, I used them for 14 years and then gave them to a friend.

You probably know that Sony took orders for it's XBR5 rear projection set starting sometime around September. It canceled production of all it's rear projection sets without notice a week or so ago. A dealer here has a stand they shipped without a TV and it will have to go back.

The same dealer has a couple of Sony XBR2 front projectors he will sell for about $5K. I'm sure XBR5 models would be twice that.

My thought is: Do I really want to buy from a company that does business this way? Suppose it decides to no longer support LCOS and parts for my projector dry up?

Years ago, Sony decided to go into the underwater video business and put out some fairly high end housings and lighting systems. I bought their top of the line model and, within a year, had a problem with it. I called Sony for service and was informed that they had exited the business and I was SOOL.

That said, I have had some very good experiences with other Sony gear.

And the fact that it's not worth it is a wonderful, wonderful thing.

.

No, I disagree. I agree with your other points, but here's where I'm coming from. We've had discussions here before about this...I have no issues with technological improvements, I love them. What I have a problem with is the fact that you can't repair the stuff. I can sum it up this way:

I personally have no need for anything more than a 50 gig hard drive. I'd personally like to pay $500 for that 50 gig hard drive... with a 10-15 year warranty. I don't want to have to back up data every week just in case my hard drive crashes. I want my hard drive to last years and years. If it does crash, I want the manufacturer to cover my $500 hard drive purchase with a data recovery service FOR FREE. They get my $500, they put that to good use, and I get covered with a big warranty. If some of you gamers/movie rippers want a terabyte of hard drive space for whatever reason, I think you should have two choices: Buy a $200 drive and expect it to last 3-4 years, or spend $1000 or 1500 and get the same 10-15 year coverage. Let's face it, all a heavy dutier hard drive would need is a thicker magnetic layer along with better motor bearings. (I think ;))

I want that choice in whatever electronics I buy or whatever other thing I buy, be it a lawnmower or whatever. Actually, I have that choice with a lawnmower. I have a Toro, spent $800 on it, and it runs fine. It's been in the shop once to replace the start rip cord, that's it. I could have bought a POS Home Depot special, and by now I'd be on my second or third lawnmower.

Seems that I don't have a good/better/best choice in most of the consumer electronics I buy. The exception might be speakers that generally will last 50 years if I don't overdrive them, and perhaps esoteric audio equipment that hopefully are built with milspec parts. CRTs are built like that. Now I want the rest of my stuff to give me the same option.

While I'm not a big conservationist, I can only think that the energy wasting that we do would be cut back if we'd lower the rate of our disposable stuff.

I do think you are strange for taking a question about a companies tactics as a personal insult. If a company shafts its buyers that makes all the people who got shafted idiots?
I don't think so.

Back to the rear projection TV dilema. The original post describes the LCOS light engine, so it is in the wrong forum to begin with... Sony decided to get out of the business because the latest Gen 8.5 LCD manufacturing tools are selling like hot-cakes. Bigger and bigger panels are coming out of those machines and cheaper and cheaper build prices, and manufacturers like AMAT keep pushing the envelope on larger cluster tools. In fact there is a 20x drop in LCD panel cost since launch. That said, if Sony cannot sell RPTVs due to cheap LCDs why would they continue to make them at a loss. My employer made the trapezoid mirrors for these HiDef sets, the quality and standards we were held to drove us out of the business just before the market collapse. Sony was VERY concerned about the quality of the components and would not accept ANY defects no matter how small or trivial. Based on that, I'd not hesitate to buy a new Sony product after careful research, in fact still running an outstanding Trinitron XBR CRT set in the family room, two DVD players, VPH 1272 PJ, etc.
Dave