Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.

This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.

What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.

This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.
+1 Not just the older generation, I can't see why anyone would want to fuss with firmware updates! I'm an engineer, I "fuss" with technology all day at work, I don't want to come home only to have to do more work in order to watch a movie.

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.

This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.

What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?The solution is obvious. Just simply go out into the market every 3 or 4 months and buy the latest player (it will have the latest firmware included) and sell your old player on eBay. The eBay buyer will be more than happy to do the firmware updates.

Personally I don't mind doing firmware updates at all. They're not that difficult after all. Do your grandparents firmware updates for them -- it's a family thing to do.:)

The solution is obvious. Just simply go out into the market every 3 or 4 months and buy the latest player (it will have the latest firmware included) and sell your old player on eBay. The eBay buyer will be more than happy to do the firmware updates.

Personally I don't mind doing firmware updates at all. They're not that difficult after all. Do your grandparents firmware updates for them -- it's a family thing to do.:)

Um, I believe you are totally missing the point. The point isn't how difficult it is to do firmware updates. The point is that if you buy a player that is supposed to play a certain format, you shouldn't have to do a firmware update every few months to get it to play the latest movie. I have a Pioneer Elite DVD player that I've had for over 4 years and I have never had to do a "firmware" update on it to get it to play a DVD. Yet, I've had to do 3 firmware updates on my BD player, and I've only had it 6 months! If these updates are to work out bugs in new technology, that's one thing. But if it's simply to satisfy an ever-changing BD spec, then that's just simply total BS.

This one of double-edge swords that technology and the internet has introduced. While it is nice to be able to add new features to products and work out small bugs that may have been unforseeable during product testing, it seems that companies are also using this to make us all beta testers for products they are trying to rush to market. Blu-Ray specs should have been finished before it came to market.

What bothers me the most is that as you wait for the needed firmware update you have movies sitting on your shelves collecting dust that you can't play. I just bought Sunshine only to find that it won't play on my Samsung BD-UP5000 even though that player just got a firmware update two days ago. How long will I have to wait for the next firmware update to play this movie? Now I need to make the decision to either keep the movie with the hope that some day I can play it, or argue with a Best Buy manager in the attempt to exchange the opened movie for a different title (which may or may not play).

This one of double-edge swords that technology and the internet has introduced. While it is nice to be able to add new features to products and work out small bugs that may have been unforseeable during product testing, it seems that companies are also using this to make us all beta testers for products they are trying to rush to market. Blu-Ray specs should have been finished before it came to market.


This hits the nail on the head for me. Generally speaking I LOVE firmware. Gone are the days when if you don't have a feature at the time of purchase, you're waiting until you buy again. Firmware updates have added GREAT things to the ps3: DVD upscaling for one. It was one of the worst SD DVD players I had ever owned: new firmware, fantastic upscaling to 1080P. It's particularly nice when a company is really behind IMPROVING a product after launch. And with the PS3 and WIFI, it is VERY easy to upgrade. It even tells you when there's new firmware available.

Sometimes companies will even add features that were originally exclusive to their higher models after they've been out for a while.

However, standalone players are a different story. Most people don't plan on having them connected to the internet, which means more complicated updates (for some). Adding basic functionality and working out major bugs that should have been fixed before the product hit the shelf is unacceptible. It's sort of like a lazy director saying "we'll fix it in post" when it would have been best just to shoot the shot again: "We'll get the product on the shelves, and then, whatever. If people have trouble we'll try to fix it then"

The firmware release date shouldn't feel like Christmas to people with non-functioning gear.

This whole concept here in this thread is false. That is the idea that firmware updates are something bad and new and we didn't used to do this.

It is true we didn't do this much in the past but it is totally false that we didn't need to do it. I have tossed many devices into the trash can after only 1 to 2 years, thousands of dollars worth of stuff all because they wound up needing a minor update and the manufacturer would not provide it or the device had no easy way to do an update. This includes tv tuners, DVD players, CD drives, etc.

I have also had situations where I could not easily update a product I wanted to buy and I read in reviews that I needed to get on post some serial number so it would actually work and I could not even select a good one because no one had the serial numbers available before purchase.

Making firmware updates easy and providing them often solves both problems.

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.

This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.

What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?

+1. i told my mom not bother with either format. stable players are a must!

They really suck and I am getting tired of them. Blu-Ray needs to finalize everything as soon as possible because if the average Joe has to conduct firmwares to make there movie rentals play, all I can say is MSRP Buy and Wal-Mart are going to have a lot of open box players on the shelf.
If this continues, then HDM will die a slow death.

I just purchased a Panny BDP-30 because my Samsung BDP-1000 quite playing any of the new BR releases. Do think the average joe is going to tolerate this?
:mad:

The spec not being finished is really a disaster, anyone defending Sony here is just letting their passion for the format cloud their judgement. I know it has happened in Tech and will again but why give a pass over and over and over... Sony obviously could not get their players out the door in time, forced them out and early adopters are getting screwed.

This whole concept here in this thread is false. That is the idea that firmware updates are something bad and new and we didn't used to do this.

It is true we didn't do this much in the past but it is totally false that we didn't need to do it. I have tossed many devices into the trash can after only 1 to 2 years, thousands of dollars worth of stuff all because they wound up needing a minor update and the manufacturer would not provide it or the device had no easy way to do an update. This includes tv tuners, DVD players, CD drives, etc.

I have also had situations where I could not easily update a product I wanted to buy and I read in reviews that I needed to get on post some serial number so it would actually work and I could not even select a good one because no one had the serial numbers available before purchase.

Making firmware updates easy and providing them often solves both problems.

First off, we're not talking about a firmware update after a couple years. I've had to do 2 FW updates in just the last month alone. And no one here is saying firmware updates themselves are bad. We're saying that firmware updates to satisfy a continual changing BD spec is bad. They need to get the spec nailed down, and stick to it.

I think firmware updates are a pain in the ass and shouldn't need to be done. As long as we need to update our firmware to play some movies, hdm will never catch on with mainstream movie buyers. I tried countless times to update the firmware on my A1 and it never worked until Toshiba sent me a disc. OF course, they only sent me one and haven't sent any since, even though there are 2 updates since then.

Updating my PS3 is super easy but I know my family would never be able to do it. Not everyone has their player connected to the net. I don't and need to download the update to a USB device and then connect that to the PS3. I know that's easy for "us", but no way would my parents go through that.

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable.

I don't mind doing firmware updates but I couldn't agree with you more.

The solution is obvious.

Do what Nintendo does on their games - encode any updates onto newer movies. When the disc is inserted it checks the current BIOS/firmware against the newest. If it isn't at the latest rev then it automatically updates it. The latest movies, the ones most likely to need updates, will have their firmware program encoded onto the disc.

Yes, there is a few minutes process, but this can be disguised by throwing up a 'commercial'. Just show trailers while it is updating in the background. You have to watch the damn things anyway, might as well make them useful. Or just throw up a nice graphics that says, "Please wait while we update the firmware. The unit will automatically power off and on and the movie will start to play automatically."

I don't even think it's due to the specs. Haven't there only been 3 versions (1.0, 1.1, and 2.0), the last of which isn't even out yet? Plus, aren't the newer versions only supposed to affect access to certain kinds of special features? We have problems where the movie isn't even playing. Thankfully I've never had a problem playing a movie on the PS3, but then again I've kept it up to date.

I'd be more inclined to blame BD+ or just players that weren't quite finished rather than the specs.

Goodness gracious.......think of the things we use weekly that continuously have firmware updates...

Bios on computer motherboards
Operating Systems
Cameras
GPS systems

I'm really pleased that the consumer can jump onto something that continues to be a work in progress and not be hung on the ability of what I bought on the day I bought it.

I'm nearly 60 years old. I downloaded the BR update, unzipped it, burned the CD and had it going in less than 30 minutes. It's not an age thing, its a simple matter of paying attention to what's going on in the world around you.

My virus system updates daily, Windows updates just about everyweek. I've had 4 updates to some Adobe programs I use since Halloween. Updates are a way of life and I'm very thankful for that ability.

If only I could be updated! Ok...no jokes about ram modifications from the cheap seats! LOL!

Do what Nintendo does on their games - encode any updates onto newer movies. When the disc is inserted it checks the current BIOS/firmware against the newest. If it isn't at the latest rev then it automatically updates it. The latest movies, the ones most likely to need updates, will have their firmware program encoded onto the disc.

Yes, there is a few minutes process, but this can be disguised by throwing up a 'commercial'. Just show trailers while it is updating in the background. You have to watch the damn things anyway, might as well make them useful. Or just throw up a nice graphics that says, "Please wait while we update the firmware. The unit will automatically power off and on and the movie will start to play automatically."

Actually, this is a great idea. After all, that's what we're basically doing now, only we're having to make the discs ourselves. One problem I see though, is that the disc would have to have the latest firmware updates for all players. Either that or it would take some sort of cooperation between player manufacturers in order to make the updates universally compatible.

Actually, this is a great idea. After all, that's what we're basically doing now, only we're having to make the discs ourselves. One problem I see though, is that the disc would have to have the latest firmware updates for all players. Either that or it would take some sort of cooperation between player manufacturers in order to make the updates universally compatible.

The problem with that is that often the update isn't available when the disc is pressed. It would be an update from several weeks prior to the release date, and usually the problem isn't known then. It's only after the disc is out there that reports of it not working with a player come in. It's not as if these studios are intentionally releasing problem discs. If they knew a player had a problem with a title beforehand, they'd probably re-author the disc rather than adding a firmware update. (This may be what happened with Independence Day.)

Then, there's the problem of keeping up with an increasing number of players. It's a lot easier for Nintendo or Sony to do it with a game console, where it's one system, one update.

I guess you guys lust for old days when you would have to purchase new player to get new firmware and fixes... good ol days.

Firmware updates are a good thing. They provide additional functionality for devices you have already purchased. I see nothing wrong with them and I would love receiving them from manufacturers more often if anything.

Keep giving me new functionality for free. Love it. :)

I guess you guys lust for old days when you would have to purchase new player to get new firmware and fixes... good ol days.

Again... NO. The firmware updates themselves is not the complaint. Get off the crack and pay attention. The complaint is having to do one every other week due to a new release NOT playing. In other words, player manufacturers and disc producers need to get on the same page and agree to a set format or standard for the playback of the feature itself. It's one thing if we're talking about some new-fangled extra, interactive crap, or networking tool not working without a FW update. Or if you're correcting a bug in the player. It's quite another when you can't just simply watch a new movie without having to get a FW update. Bottom line: You shouldn't have to do a firmware update every other time you go out and buy a new movie.

You dont have to "update" your computer to turn it on and use most functions but you do in order to improve its functionality. The same thing goes for both HD formats. As the tech improves and software is altered there will always be updates. At least they are fairly easy to do and usually solve any problems that may arise. My biggest complaint is how long it take smy HD-A30 player to update via ethernet. It seemingly took 40-50 minutes to download and install the new update. Now that is unacceptable.

Again... NO. The firmware updates themselves is not the complaint. Get off the crack and pay attention. The complaint is having to do one every other week due to a new release NOT playing. In other words, player manufacturers and disc producers need to get on the same page and agree to a set format or standard for the playback of the feature itself. It's one thing if we're talking about some new-fangled extra, interactive crap, or networking tool not working without a FW update. Or if you're correcting a bug in the player. It's quite another when you can't just simply watch a new movie without having to get a FW update. Bottom line: You shouldn't have to do a firmware update every other time you go out and buy a new movie.

I agree with other posters about updates and doing them is part of being able to make the machine work better.
However, this is the very thing that has pissed me off about Windows and PCs. All those inherent flaws built into Windows that it needs upgrading almost daily. Can you imagine car or airplane manfacturers staying in business if they had to do that?

"Please do today's firmware update for your Boeing 737 or your Corvette. If you don't the engine may stall at times." :eek:

Amazing, only in America could someone put out a flawed product and be the richest man in the world. :confused:

Welcome updates. They are your indication they are trying to improve what they failed upon initially. :rolleyes:

Not to mention the time and hassle factor you mention! :(

The spec not being finished is really a disaster, anyone defending Sony here is just letting their passion for the format cloud their judgement. I know it has happened in Tech and will again but why give a pass over and over and over... Sony obviously could not get their players out the door in time, forced them out and early adopters are getting screwed.

My lord I must have stepped into that alternate dimension again. You know, the one where only Sony makes Blu-ray players, and Sony is the only CE manufacturer responsible for Blu-ray (well, responsible for all the negatives that is).


Baseless Sony bashing, ain't it great?

Baseless Sony bashing, ain't it great?
Which is funny, seeing as how Sony's own PS3 is the easiest to update. It's already online, so I download some new features that let me stream media over the network, or create a custom theme for the system, and golly.. now it's BD 1.1 compatible, too.. win/win.

+1 for thinking ahead and buying a system that updates itself automatically.

The spec not being finished is really a disaster, anyone defending Sony here is just letting their passion for the format cloud their judgement. I know it has happened in Tech and will again but why give a pass over and over and over... Sony obviously could not get their players out the door in time, forced them out and early adopters are getting screwed.

You really need to see all the polls indicating how unimportant special features are to even AVSers. Less than 5%. Take away another 2% for average consumers.
This talking point about BD spec being unfinished, is all that it is, a talking point by the HD DVD camp to find fault where 97% won't.

I have a feeling that the new technology involved, especially BD-J related, is too difficult for most studios and CE companies.;)

^^ I wouldn' worry about waiting. I have watched some PIP BD's and you are not only not missing anything, IMO they are annoying. I already watched the movie and who wants to watch it again with a box blocking the great HD PQ and the sound drops from 5.1 to 2.0. Hey but that is me. Who knows?

The point isn't how difficult it is to do firmware updates.

You're right. The issue is an unwillingness to learn and accept the future of technology.

Amazing, only in America could someone put out a flawed product and be the richest man in the world. :confused:

Only in America do you have the luxury of worrying about little stuff like this.

Welcome updates. They are your indication they are trying to improve what they failed upon initially. :rolleyes:

So, keep the same job you have forever. While you're at it, never allow yourself to change your mind, learn new things, or re-create yourself every so often to avoid stagnating.

Because if you do these things, you are admitting you're a failure today.

You're right. The issue is an unwillingness to learn and accept the future of technology.



Only in America do you have the luxury of worrying about little stuff like this.



So, keep the same job you have forever. While you're at it, never allow yourself to change your mind, learn new things, or re-create yourself every so often to avoid stagnating.

Because if you do these things, you are admitting you're a failure today.

Except I am not worried or worrying, rather pointing out the obvious.

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.

This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.

What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?

Granny doesn't have a Blu-Ray player yet. By the time she does, firmware updates won't really be an issue. This is an early and early-mid adopter issue (i.e., people like us who can update firmware even though we may gripe about it). It will resolve itself over time.

You're right. The issue is an unwillingness to learn and accept the future of technology.



??? Where do you get that? Did you even actually read what the OP wrote? Furthurmore, did you actually read what I wrote? Obviously we have a willingness to learn and accept the future of technology... otherwise we wouldn't be early adopters of HDM, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I guess you must of ignored the part where I said to put the crack pipe down.

??? Where do you get that? Did you even actually read what the OP wrote? Furthurmore, did you actually read what I wrote? Obviously we have a willingness to learn and accept the future of technology... otherwise we wouldn't be early adopters of HDM, and we wouldn't be having this discussion. I guess you must of ignored the part where I said to put the crack pipe down.

He may have missed that part but I didn't. It was the part where you were blatantly going against the rules of this forum by leveling a personal insult at him. Better hope the mods don't notice.

And while your presence here shows a willingness to learn future tech, it absolutely shows an unwillingness to accept that same tech. About the only thing other than that which it shows is how much people enjoy bitching and moaning. Now where's the thread discussing today's weather?

I guess you guys lust for old days when you would have to purchase new player to get new firmware and fixes... good ol days.

I've never had a dvd player that didn't play every dvd I put in it.

I left this thread today and just now returned and it seems half the people here simply did not read the original post.

This is not "Sony bashing"

This is not against having firmware updates that add features.

This is about the feature film being playable when you put the disc in, simple enough. The average consumer will absolutely not firmware update. Those of you who think they will are apparently missing the boat. Movies need to work, every single time you put them in, without fail. This is not too high an expectation for any movie format.

I've never had a dvd player that didn't play every dvd I put in it.

I left this thread today and just now returned and it seems half the people here simply did not read the original post.

This is not "Sony bashing"

This is not against having firmware updates that add features.

This is about the feature film being playable when you put the disc in, simple enough. The average consumer will absolutely not firmware update. Those of you who think they will are apparently missing the boat. Movies need to work, every single time you put them in, without fail. This is not too high an expectation for any movie format.

Exactly!

He may have missed that part but I didn't. It was the part where you were blatantly going against the rules of this forum by leveling a personal insult at him. Better hope the mods don't notice.



I didn't 'personally insult' anyone. It was a joke. I was simply 'ribbing' the posters who were mis-stating what the OP had written, and had meant.

I've never had a dvd player that didn't play every dvd I put in it.

I left this thread today and just now returned and it seems half the people here simply did not read the original post.

This is not "Sony bashing"

This is not against having firmware updates that add features.

This is about the feature film being playable when you put the disc in, simple enough. The average consumer will absolutely not firmware update. Those of you who think they will are apparently missing the boat. Movies need to work, every single time you put them in, without fail. This is not too high an expectation for any movie format.


I actually had few dvd players where they didnt play divx properly and had to update them. Most of them still had issues.

And besides, I have PS3, I never had single issue with any BD movie.

You got inferior player, your mistake.

Too bad that people who have HD Ready TV's, with all the different issues cant update them eh?

I actually had few dvd players where they didnt play divx properly and had to update them. Most of them still had issues.

And besides, I have PS3, I never had single issue with any BD movie.

You got inferior player, your mistake.

Too bad that people who have HD Ready TV's, with all the different issues cant update them eh?

You take a ridiculous and childish stance on this.
1) "You got inferior player, your mistake." - I don't have a player, and won't until they don't have these issues.
2) "I had a few players where they didn't play divx properly" - are you JOKING? Divx playback is an extra, it is NOT a part of the dvd spec, voicing this makes you look stupid. I have a panasonic A110 from 1998 that will still play any normal dvd movie put in it.
3) "I have a PS3" - that you're of course updating all the time.

Why did you even post?

You take a ridiculous and childish stance on this.
1) "You got inferior player, your mistake." - I don't have a player, and won't until they don't have these issues.
2) "I had a few players where they didn't play divx properly" - are you JOKING? Divx playback is an extra, it is NOT a part of the dvd spec, voicing this makes you look stupid. I have a panasonic A110 from 1998 that will still play any normal dvd movie put in it.
3) "I have a PS3" - that you're of course updating all the time.

Why did you even post?

um, you are complaing about something that you have no experience with? You gotta be kidding me.

So this whole thread was started by someone that does not even have an BD player and has never experienced it?

Thats pretty funny. No wonder you are complaining so much :-).

Um, I believe you are totally missing the point. The point isn't how difficult it is to do firmware updates. The point is that if you buy a player that is supposed to play a certain format, you shouldn't have to do a firmware update every few months to get it to play the latest movie. I have a Pioneer Elite DVD player that I've had for over 4 years and I have never had to do a "firmware" update on it to get it to play a DVD. Yet, I've had to do 3 firmware updates on my BD player, and I've only had it 6 months! If these updates are to work out bugs in new technology, that's one thing. But if it's simply to satisfy an ever-changing BD spec, then that's just simply total BS.
Amen!!

I actually had few dvd players where they didnt play divx properly and had to update them. Most of them still had issues.

And besides, I have PS3, I never had single issue with any BD movie.

You got inferior player, your mistake.

Too bad that people who have HD Ready TV's, with all the different issues cant update them eh?

so all the stand alone players are inferior? Give me a break. Not to mention if you didnt upgrade the firmware on the ps3 you have the same issues everyone is talking about here, which is non playing movies.

As long as bd+ keeps changing we will have fw updates. Its the thing i hate most about blu-ray. DRM/copy protection hurting the paying customer. That is sony. People saying "sony isnt the only one who makes players" etc are missing the point. So eventually they will have to deal with a cracked bd+ or we will ALWAYS have to update fw to play the latest movies. This is not an early adopter problem with the current drm used by sony et al.

The FW updates for the BD10&10a were positive. Owners in the string were very good about posting to help each other with any burn problems on PC and Mac.

Good experience for most and a great example of AVS sharing knowledge. What's not to like?

I would be willing to wager that there will be fewer firmware updates for new players and that the vast majority of people with Blu-Ray stand-alones are people who can update firmware. Sure it is irritating, but that's the price of early adoption. Again, this is an issue that will take care of itself over time as the format moves from early adopters to early-mid adopters to the mass market.

Firmware updates to add new features might be nice, but firmware updates to make movies work are basically unacceptable. I just don't see the problematic aspects of this going away. My parents and grandparents would never be able to update firmware, regardless of how easy you make it.

This does not make them idiots, it makes them part of a generation that simply has a harder time with technology in general and doesn't want to fuss with that kind of thing. It should work out of the box, every time.

What exactly is happening here from an authoring perspective that is causing certain discs not to work properly on certain players?


it really does not bother me as I just send out for the discs on HD-DVD. as far a Blu-ray i buy fairly new PS3 games that have fairly new firmware. so far ive only had issues with 1 disc not playing. it was a import HD-DVD. but a update fixed that. i would say within a year all bugs will be fixed making firmware a thing of the past. the only firmware would make things run quicker. but i fell at some point all movies will play right.

the only issue with getting firmware i have is i only have dial up at the momment so downloading firmware can take time. i would get highspeed but feel the cost is'nt worth it for how little i use the net. im on this site a lot but 99% of the time its via my mobilephone. (sidekick 3)

So this whole thread was started by someone that does not even have an BD player and has never experienced it?

Thats pretty funny. No wonder you are complaining so much :-).

I had an hd dvd player, and have extensively used a PS3. It doesn't in the least change the content of the complaint.

If you think average joe is going to do firmware updates you're an idiot.

I agree with the OP, but what worries more is that with each firmware update the consumer runs the risk of bricking their machine. Then again maybe this is by design.

I think that the point is the longevity and acceptance of Blue-Ray (or HD-DVD, don't flame me I have both) as the HD successor to DVD. DVDs acceptance and success are due to people like my parents and my wife's grandparents who can get a movie and play it. These necessary updates while easy for us to do are near impossible for them to do. Blue Ray and HD-DVD will end up being the video version of SACD and DVD-A if we continue to have to do updates just to watch a movie. Definitely a better technology, but ultimately a fringe enthusiest product.

So back to the question...
Why are these necessary to watch a movie?

I had an hd dvd player, and have extensively used a PS3. It doesn't in the least change the content of the complaint.

If you think average joe is going to do firmware updates you're an idiot.

complaining about things you dont own, calling other people idiots, good job.

I know people who still can't fold maps back the way they were so they have to keep stopping at c stores to ask directions. Ask them to move to GPS:D:D:D

??? Where do you get that? Did you even actually read what the OP wrote?

Did you forget what you just read?

Furthurmore, did you actually read what I wrote? Obviously we have a willingness to learn and accept the future of technology... otherwise we wouldn't be early adopters of HDM, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Hating firmware updates fits exactly with my response. In fact, it is the core of the difficulty in gaining ground with consumers of a certain generation and older. Firmware updates are the only way to solve these issues other replacing players.

I guess you must of ignored the part where I said to put the crack pipe down.

Actually it was running through my head as I posted my response.

Hating firmware updates fits exactly with my response. In fact, it is the core of the difficulty in gaining ground with consumers of a certain generation and older. Firmware updates are the only way to solve these issues other replacing players.





okay... one more time... No one here is saying that they hate firmware updates, except you. The complaint is about having to do a firmware update to watch the latest movie release on a player that is supposed to already be able to play such a movie. Not about the firmware update itself. :rolleyes:

okay... one more time... No one here is saying that they hate firmware updates, except you. The complaint is about having to do a firmware update to watch the latest movie release on a player that is supposed to already be able to play such a movie. Not about the firmware update itself. :rolleyes:

Well since English my first language, my natural interpretation was that if people didn't mind they wouldn't bring it up at all.

Well since English my first language, my natural interpretation was that if people didn't mind they wouldn't bring it up at all.

You should try comprehensively reading the OP before you post in a thread. Theres a detailed explanation of the differentiation there.

The OP has a valid point, My mother, a typical consumer, is happy with DVD but still plays her old VHS tapes and records TV programs on her VCR still. She can barely figure out which input goes to what when getting the DVD player to play through the VCR it is hooked up through. She'll struggle toggling through channels and hitting all sorts of buttons before findering her way to the input (REAR 1) which works. Lots of people have trouble checking their email. How are any of these people expected to understand how to do firmware updates? J6P doesn't care about firmware updates, HDM, but likes flat panels because they take up less space and has a good picture for sports. There's very few people I know who even have a surround sound setup.

You should try comprehensively reading the OP before you post in a thread. Theres a detailed explanation of the differentiation there.

I read it, and the content in between the lines.

I agree, as a new adapter to this I see no problem with firmware upgrades. But a need to do it just so that we can play a freakin movie is unbelieveable. WTF??? When is the standard profile going to be out and what will it cost??? I also don't like how most new movies are going to have Tru HD when none of the players currently decode this??? And most were touting this as the superiour format???

You know what, I bet most people would like to not have to brush their teeth repeatedly so that they don't end up rotting and falling out too. It would be nice to just have to do it once a year for your big cleaning. But, somehow, everyone manages.

Oh, also, when was the last time you changed your car's oil, tires, brakes? Hell, when was the last time you filled your gas tank? Maintenance is something inherent in almost every aspect of the lives of consumers. It sucks. It would be nice if you could buy a car and that was it until you got rid of that car, but that's not how it works.

CE's are fairly maintenance free. You don't have to refill any fluids, you don't have to change out any parts. Hell, most people make it through their entire time owning them and don't even clean out any dust. I think what this boils down to is...

Get over it. There's bigger fish to fry.

This thread is just inane. The constant patching and firmware upgrades are the price you pay for being an early adopter.. You think every DVD works in a first generation DVD player? I owned own. I would have much rather had a firmware update to fix bugs in the first generation player than do what I had to do and buy a whole new DVD player...

I'm so glad everyones nth generation DVD player works with every DVD they've tried... but that success was built on early adopters who bought DVD players that quickly became expensive paper weights. Let's compare apples to apples here.

I personally think firmware upgrades for consumer electronics is a huge step foreword.

Two things are happening which will negate the impact of the firmware updates. As the blu-ray format matures the bugs will be worked out of the players and the authoring and these issues wont occur. Also connected blu-ray players will almost surely handle the firmware updates more gracefully than our current download and burn generation. So by the time dear old grandma (who everyone seems really concerned about for some reason) has to use a blu-ray player it will be a non-issue.

By the time these things hit the average "I'm not paying more than $100 for a DVD player." consumer the constant firmware upgrades will be long gone.

They should call it "not-so-firm"ware. I like the updates, but agree that they would probably spend more time on quality control, etc if they weren't able to do firmware updates.

By the time these things hit the average "I'm not paying more than $100 for a DVD player." consumer the constant firmware upgrades will be long gone.

What were you saying about paperweights?;)

This whole concept here in this thread is false. That is the idea that firmware updates are something bad and new and we didn't used to do this.

It is true we didn't do this much in the past but it is totally false that we didn't need to do it. I have tossed many devices into the trash can after only 1 to 2 years, thousands of dollars worth of stuff all because they wound up needing a minor update and the manufacturer would not provide it or the device had no easy way to do an update. This includes tv tuners, DVD players, CD drives, etc.

I have also had situations where I could not easily update a product I wanted to buy and I read in reviews that I needed to get on post some serial number so it would actually work and I could not even select a good one because no one had the serial numbers available before purchase.

Making firmware updates easy and providing them often solves both problems.

So when I'm up in my cabin and I want to watch a movie and I don't have a high speed internet connection then I'm SOL right? This whole firmware updating is a bunch of BS. I've about had it with my DirecTV boxes as well.

Get the product right the first time, then release it. If you can't then your product is junk and you need to come to terms with that. Firmware is for new functions not debugging.


I think firmware updates are a pain in the ass and shouldn't need to be done. As long as we need to update our firmware to play some movies, hdm will never catch on with mainstream movie buyers. I tried countless times to update the firmware on my A1 and it never worked until Toshiba sent me a disc. OF course, they only sent me one and haven't sent any since, even though there are 2 updates since then.

Updating my PS3 is super easy but I know my family would never be able to do it. Not everyone has their player connected to the net. I don't and need to download the update to a USB device and then connect that to the PS3. I know that's easy for "us", but no way would my parents go through that.


Try it again. I had a hell of a time with mine. The most recent update actually made the damn door stop work like it should. Even improved the boot time.

Goodness gracious.......think of the things we use weekly that continuously have firmware updates...

Bios on computer motherboards
Operating Systems
Cameras
GPS systems

I'm really pleased that the consumer can jump onto something that continues to be a work in progress and not be hung on the ability of what I bought on the day I bought it.

I'm nearly 60 years old. I downloaded the BR update, unzipped it, burned the CD and had it going in less than 30 minutes. It's not an age thing, its a simple matter of paying attention to what's going on in the world around you.

My virus system updates daily, Windows updates just about everyweek. I've had 4 updates to some Adobe programs I use since Halloween. Updates are a way of life and I'm very thankful for that ability.

If only I could be updated! Ok...no jokes about ram modifications from the cheap seats! LOL!

You know how many people can't do this? We are in the minority. Thank God my in-laws have DSL at their house. I'm always remote connecting to help them fix whatever nightmare they created. Furthermore, having a way of updating your computer which is generally tied to the WAN or LAN vs a DVD player in your living room where there probably isn't a network connection is an entirely different issue. I mean lets be real, most consumers are completely lost when it comes to this stuff.