Please tell me if there is a good post that discusses this as I could not find.....

I remember one of the huge selling points were the cost to make HD-dvd's were much less . Why did this never truly make a difference in the final cost of a movie. If a HD disc is $3 less to make than a Blu ray's (figure made up), then sell it for $3 less. It could be enough to tip the balance. Hardware being cheap is good but not great since the difference between the two formats is small if the player is to be used for a good few years. Whats $100-$200 over a few years??:mad:

Im not seeing any difference at the retailer most of the time....

intresting contradiction don't you think?

Even Kevin Tsujihara said that and in the same breath mentioned there was no price saving to the consumer. One word, PROFITS.

Please tell me if there is a good post that discusses this as I could not find.....

I remember one of the huge selling points were the cost to make HD-dvd's were much less . Why did this never truly make a difference in the final cost of a movie. If a HD disc is $3 less to make than a Blu ray's (figure made up), then sell it for $3 less. It could be enough to tip the balance. Hardware being cheap is good but not great since the difference between the two formats is small if the player is to be used for a good few years. Whats $100-$200 over a few years??:mad:

Im not seeing any difference at the retailer most of the time....

Don't most Blu-Ray plants subsidize the price difference?

You know this is a really good question. That was one of the supposed advantages, yet for the most part I actually pay more for HD-DVDs because a lot of them are combos.

it was never a selling point for consumers
it was for studios to make even more on a disk

Can someone actually prove that HD-DVD is cheaper to make? Like show us numbers? I've never seen any, at least.

The argument was always that HD-DVD could be made on existing DVD equipment but to my knowledge no DVD lines have been upgraded to HD-DVD. Instead, lines that are HD-DVD specific are being added and this negates a lot of that cost savings I'd imagine.

Also, consider economies of scale. Way more Blu-ray discs are sold. For every HD-DVD sold, 2 or 3 Blu-ray movies are sold... and that's not counting PS3 games.

Between this and the fact that Toshiba is clearly subsidizing their player prices now (and it was always assumed they were even before the A35 hit $299), the 'cheaper to make' argument doesn't seem to hold up. People always assumed it to be true because the players were cheaper but I'm so sure anymore.

Can someone actually prove that HD-DVD is cheaper to make? Like show us numbers? I've never seen any, at least.

The argument was always that HD-DVD could be made on existing DVD equipment but to my knowledge no DVD lines have been upgraded to HD-DVD. Instead, lines that are HD-DVD specific are being added and this negates a lot of that cost savings I'd imagine.

Also, consider economies of scale. Way more Blu-ray discs are sold. For every HD-DVD sold, 2 or 3 Blu-ray movies are sold... and that's not counting PS3 games.

Between this and the fact that Toshiba is clearly subsidizing their player prices now (and it was always assumed they were even before the A35 hit $299), the 'cheaper to make' argument doesn't seem to hold up. People always assumed it to be true because the players were cheaper but I'm so sure anymore.

Steven Hirsch, co-chairman of Vivid Entertainment, commented on this before.

"Blu-ray is extremely expensive to work with," said Hirsch. Authoring in Blu-ray Disc is about four times more expensive than HD DVD, he said, while replicating is three times as expensive. Authoring is the process of combining video and audio into a format that a disc player can read.

The authoring process is far different than DVD because Blu-ray Disc is a completely new technology, while HD DVD is an extension of DVD technology, so it's not as complicated, Hirsch said.

http://www.digitalartsonline.co.uk/news/index.cfm?NewsID=7115

I imagine the reason why is because they don't get the subsidizes the big boys get.

According to http://www.widescreen-vision.de/?article_id=611693 a BD-50 costs 6–6.5$ whereas a HD DVD-30 only costs 1.05$.

Can someone actually prove that HD-DVD is cheaper to make? Like show us numbers? I've never seen any, at least.

The argument was always that HD-DVD could be made on existing DVD equipment but to my knowledge no DVD lines have been upgraded to HD-DVD. Instead, lines that are HD-DVD specific are being added and this negates a lot of that cost savings I'd imagine.

Also, consider economies of scale. Way more Blu-ray discs are sold. For every HD-DVD sold, 2 or 3 Blu-ray movies are sold... and that's not counting PS3 games.

Between this and the fact that Toshiba is clearly subsidizing their player prices now (and it was always assumed they were even before the A35 hit $299), the 'cheaper to make' argument doesn't seem to hold up. People always assumed it to be true because the players were cheaper but I'm so sure anymore.

There was an article about a german Blu-Ray manufacturer, one of the equipments alone costs $1 Million dollars. The HD-DVD equivalent is about $60K dollars (since an existing DVD line can be easily modified). A huge difference!

Here (http://www.news.com/Cost-questions-dog-Blu-ray-DVDs-lead/2100-1025_3-5969815.html?tag=st.num) is an old but interesting article on cost.

This article (http://wesleytech.com/blu-ray-vs-hd-dvd-replication-costs-revealed/111/) though says costs are not an issue.

The logic is that if BR becomes the standard, replication costs will go down and this will not be an issue (or an advantage for HD DVD) anymore.

You don't pay $300 for MS Office because it cost MS that much to replicate the discs. You are paying for content. Anything other than commodities, you are paying what the seller thinks the product is worth, not what it costs to make.

Prices are not based on how much discs cost to make. They are based on how much the studios think we will pay. The manufacturing cost differential may influence a studios choice of formats but they will still charge the highest price they can get away with.

As for the $6/disc for Blu Ray. That may be what the manufacturing cost is but you can bet that its not what Disney, Fox, and Warner are expecting to pay when HD media goes main-stream. I doubt that it is what they are paying now (many commenters believe that Sony is eating a big chunk of the costs for now).

The quick answer is "They charge more (or the same) for HD DVDs because they can." The movie studios are for-profit companies, and are not obligated to pass on any savings to you. If they find a cheaper way to do something, but can still charge the same amount to the customers, it simply means more profits for them.

Insiders have mentioned that HD is cheaper to produce and also HD DVD is an average of $2 cheaper comparing MSRP prices. But the bottom line is studios and/or retailers are going to sell the discs for what they think people are willing to pay for them despite whether or not they may be profiting more or less between formats.

That being said, I havent thought prices were to bad with the exception of those certain retailers that sell everything at full MSRP. Considering these are all new releases on the format (even the catalog titles) $20 - $27 isnt much more then you would see on a new released DVD.

Granted every one is used to bargin bin prices but those prices will also come in time after the discs have been released for awhile.

Granted every one is used to bargin bin prices but those prices will also come in time after the discs have been released for awhile.


It is the "pizza coupon" effect. Something that the pizza industry can not get away from now.

greed, profit ..which are leading to the demise of the format.

There was an article about a german Blu-Ray manufacturer, one of the equipments alone costs $1 Million dollars. The HD-DVD equivalent is about $60K dollars (since an existing DVD line can be easily modified). A huge difference!


A Blu-Ray of hope for Singulus (http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/01/07/blu-warner-singulus-markets-equity-cx_po_0107markets08.html)
The Blu-Ray machine was quoted as $1.2 Million and the cost to upgrade an existing DVD machine to produce HD DVD's is only $37,000.

Well, thanks for all the answers people. Yes, I understand now how the studios would rather make more money than pass the savings to the consumer. Still, it seems the extra money they make on HD-DVD was not enough to save it with the PS3 Trojan horse etc etc.

Well, thanks for all the answers people. Yes, I understand now how the studios would rather make more money than pass the savings to the consumer. Still, it seems the extra money they make on HD-DVD was not enough to save it with the PS3 Trojan horse etc etc.

Yes you are correct but dont give up on the new lower priced players. :)

If anything will reach mass acceptance it will be the low cost of the players themselves selling in regular outlets such as walmart. Studios and content prices will follow suit as the format itself grows in acceptance.

The quick answer is "They charge more (or the same) for HD DVDs because they can." The movie studios are for-profit companies, and are not obligated to pass on any savings to you. If they find a cheaper way to do something, but can still charge the same amount to the customers, it simply means more profits for them.

I would say that any Profits from Toshiba's HD/DVD Replicators and HD/DVD Royalties is going into driving the RD and production costs of the HD players down and once the HD players are cheap enough Toshiba will start driving HDM costs down and BDM is history.

....Angelo

With HD DVD's cheaper costs of replication and parity of sell price at retail, relative to Blu-Ray, it seems like studios would stand to profit more from HD than Blu. I'm surprised that fact hasn't garnered a lot of studio support for HD DVD.

Is it that studios are happier taking a payoff up front, rather than pursuing greatest long term profits?

A Blu-Ray of hope for Singulus (http://http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/01/07/blu-warner-singulus-markets-equity-cx_po_0107markets08.html)
The Blu-Ray machine was quoted as $1.2 Million and the cost to upgrade an existing DVD machine to produce HD DVD's is only $37,000.
Tks for the link! I could not find it :)

greed, profit ..which are leading to the demise of the format.

+1

Another thing to consider is what will happen to prices once one format "wins."

Currently Blu-ray may be heavily subsidizing these larger manufacturing costs to push their format. If (once) HD-DVD loses will there be a need for this?
Will we see a subsequent jump in Blu-Ray prices?

I would assume no matter which side won we would see a jump in prices, but maybe it will be a larger increase with Blu-Ray.

Another thing to consider is what will happen to prices once one format "wins."

Currently Blu-ray may be heavily subsidizing these larger manufacturing costs to push their format. If (once) HD-DVD loses will there be a need for this?
Will we see a subsequent jump in Blu-Ray prices?

I would assume no matter which side won we would see a jump in prices, but maybe it will be a larger increase with Blu-Ray.

I seriously doubt the prices will go up. Historically (VHS vs Beta) this didn't happen and let's not forget that they want this format to replace DVD and that will not happen with rising prices.

Tks for the link! I could not find it :)
Is this the correct link?
http://www.forbes.com/2008/01/07/blu-warner-singulus-markets-equity-cx_po_0107markets08.html

Yes you are correct but dont give up on the new lower priced players. :)

If anything will reach mass acceptance it will be the low cost of the players themselves selling in regular outlets such as walmart. Studios and content prices will follow suit as the format itself grows in acceptance.

Yeah, like people are gonna run out and buy overpriced BD players instead of the more reasonably priced HD DVD players. In this economic climate no less, yeah right!!!!!!!

Media pricing sure isn't helping HD DVD. THeir player prices are finally getting into a good range. Too bad media pricing isn't matching the price drop movement.

Yeah, like people are gonna run out and buy overpriced BD players instead of the more reasonably priced HD DVD players. In this economic climate no less, yeah right!!!!!!!

Blu Ray players outsold HD-DVD players by more that a 12:1 ratio the second week of January 2008 (not counting the PS3)! An astounding figure when coupled by the software numbers 85:15 also favoring Blu-Ray. I would say that people in this economic climate are buying---just not HD-DVD players because of Toshiba's idiotic policy of no BOGO's!

A Blu-Ray of hope for Singulus (http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/01/07/blu-warner-singulus-markets-equity-cx_po_0107markets08.html)
The Blu-Ray machine was quoted as $1.2 Million and the cost to upgrade an existing DVD machine to produce HD DVD's is only $37,000.

Which is really puzzling to me why studios would back blu-ray in light of this fact.:confused:

A Blu-Ray of hope for Singulus (http://www.forbes.com/markets/2008/01/07/blu-warner-singulus-markets-equity-cx_po_0107markets08.html)
The Blu-Ray machine was quoted as $1.2 Million and the cost to upgrade an existing DVD machine to produce HD DVD's is only $37,000.

Which is really puzzling to me why studios would back blu-ray in light of this fact.:confused:

This is IMHO...

I suspect one major issue around the relative pricing vs costs is that the studios have treated the Format War as R&D activity, that may or may not generate profits in the near term, but sets them up for huge profits if it takes off. Thus, they wouldn't really care yet, it's all about positioning, based on the low quantities involved so far. I mean, $1 million is a lot of money for you and me, but to a major studio, it barely pays for a couple of weekend ads in the newspapers across the US (maybe not even that...).

I'm sure DVD replication equipment was expensive as heck at first too. Once consumers start to purchase HD media en masse (if they ever do), the price-per-unit will go down to something more profitable.

As for why the retail prices were the same for HD DVD and BD: competition between the studios and formats made sure the prices are roughly the same (especially with Warner and Paramount being neutral at first - it set the stage for everyone else, and WB and Para had to keep the prices roughly the same to avoid looking like they were picking a favorite format).

And the prices were more than the average day-and-date deluxe set DVD with the justification of being a "better" product. That's why SACDs and DVD-As have always cost more than their CD counterparts - replication costs aside, the "better product" has to be priced higher, or the market gets all topsy-turvy.

It's all pricing of the commodities to ensure the consumer perceives the enhanced benefit of HD media. Once the consumer gets hooked and market-share gets usefully large, manufacturing costs will normalize such that retail prices ensure a nominal profit for everyone involved, and no-one will care about the initial costs for those first few million discs.

That's my take on it.

shinksma

It's funny, I am seeing a massive price difference myself.. but it's always negative towards Blu-ray.

Every time I go into Fry's they have cheaper average prices on HD-DVD's than Blu-rays. Anytime I go check FYE (a HELLA-expensive place) it is the same story. Heck even Circuit City has cheaper priced HD-DVD's than Blu-rays on numerous titles. Only place I see the prices as being the same really is Best Buy.

It's funny, I am seeing a massive price difference myself.. but it's always negative towards Blu-ray.

Every time I go into Fry's they have cheaper average prices on HD-DVD's than Blu-rays. Anytime I go check FYE (a HELLA-expensive place) it is the same story. Heck even Circuit City has cheaper priced HD-DVD's than Blu-rays on numerous titles. Only place I see the prices as being the same really is Best Buy.

They're the same price at my Wal-marts. In fact, their HD movie selection is split 60:40 in favor of Blu-Ray.