Good news is that he made it clear they are continuing to support HD DVD. He also gave an explanation as to why the HD DVD press conference was cancelled.

http://www.betanews.com/article/Interview_Universal_EVP_Ken_Graffeo_says_HD_DVD_is_here_to_s tay/1200951636

good read, thanks for posting.

"Apple CEO Steve Jobs recently said that "clearly, Blu-ray won the format war," but noted that all next-generation physical media won't serve a purpose, because consumers will receive content digitally."

Why is it that Michael Bay believes that because MS offers digital downloads that they want to "take over the world", but when Apple not only offers them, but also offers a hardware device to help make this a standard it's simply "OK" with him?

"Apple CEO Steve Jobs recently said that "clearly, Blu-ray won the format war," but noted that all next-generation physical media won't serve a purpose, because consumers will receive content digitally."

Why is it that Michael Bay believes that because MS offers digital downloads that they want to "take over the world", but when Apple not only offers them, but also offers a hardware device to help make this a standard it's simply "OK" with him?

Because apple is in bed with blue ray, Thats why!

"From a strictly consumer standpoint, HD DVD seems to make the most sense: players are cheaper, combination discs are possible, which enables a smooth transition. Blu-ray players are still in flux and current models except the PS3 won't be upgradable to Profile 2.0. Blu-ray is pitching players that will be obsolete in a year, and discs that lack the interactivity found on HD DVD. Why hasn't there been more of a marketing message on this from HD DVD?"

Interesting read. I hope they stick it out. Competition is good for everyone.

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

Universal should, on the day before they ship American Gangster, announce to all retailers that, due to "manufacturing problems", the DVD has been postponed indefinitely and that all orders will be fulfilled with the HD DVD Combo version. Due to this "error", they will drop the MSRP to that of what the standard DVD was supposed to be.

I can dream, can't I? ;)

Screw the combo format, why not go with Twin Format? I've never understood why they don't just go with Twin Format.

Because apple is in bed with blue ray, Thats why!

Bingo.

Glad to hear the continuation of the combo disk. That could be an important advantage if they could undercut BD HDM pricing.

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

Not a very good argument, Cliff.

Automobiles are a necessity, HDM is not -- it's a luxury.

It makes sense to have one HD format for mass adoption; otherwise, there will be confusion and HDM dies.

Glad to hear the continuation of the combo disk. That could be an important advantage if they could undercut BD HDM pricing.

With combo pricing eclipsing standard DVD pricing and even being higher than some BR pricing, there's no way they are going to "undercut" anyone. They've got to find a way to get the pricing down to around $19.99 if the combo thing is going to take off. Of course, we know this won't happen, but hey..

I liked the part where he said "I dont think there is any ill intent here", when speaking on unification of the 2 formats.

Thats good to hear but I wonder who was the person or persons in the room that did not want to come together on a format agreement

I liked the part where he said "I dont think there is any ill intent here", when speaking on unification of the 2 formats.

The best part had to be "After Warner essentially stabbed you in the back.." I actually laughed out loud when I read that. It's always amusing when someone in the media actually calls something the way it actually is. ;)

Screw the combo format, why not go with Twin Format? I've never understood why they don't just go with Twin Format.
The only proven Twin is HD15/DVD5 and they fear that some DVD players can't handle that and the space is limited. The TL Twin (HD30/DVD5) is not out yet, so it is not proven technology in the many different players/firmware out there.

I do hope they can create Twin in the near future, combos are more expensive to create and there are a lot of people that don't like double sided discs.

[B]

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

I don't know. We were all driving the same DVD car for the past 10 years in content.

The only proven Twin is HD15/DVD5 and they fear that some DVD players can't handle that and the space is limited. The TL Twin (HD30/DVD5) is not out yet, so it is not proven technology in the many different players/firmware out there.

I do hope they can create Twin in the near future, combos are more expensive to create and there are a lot of people that don't like double sided discs.

Do you have any articles on this? or is it speculation on your part? I've heard nothing like this
They Used the Twin already with two release's now and no problems ever have been reported

Screw the combo format, why not go with Twin Format? I've never understood why they don't just go with Twin Format.

Exactly. For as long as Universal releases combo discs, is as long as I will spend my money elsewhere.

I liked that he touched on educating the consumer.

Do you have any articles on this? or is it speculation on your part? I've heard nothing like this
They Used the Twin already with two release's now and no problems ever have been reported

This was under discussion in the insider thread, which coincidentally was suddenly killed. According to insiders the Combo is expensive to replicate but the Twin disk is much easier and less costly, apparently more like a DVD and able to use standard DVD lines.

However current twin disk has a limited capacity with dual layers.
It would probably require that studios created 720p encodes for the hd dvd side similar to what is up on XBLM, although presumably even a bit better.

According to insider:
Originally Posted by Tom McMahon
Yes, and an interesting idea, but 99+% of consumers wouldn't be able to tell the difference between a 720p product and a 1080p product on todays screens at normal viewing distances.

If they just did a really well-encoded 720p SKU, called it HD and didn't tell anyone, most people (except perhaps those on this list) wouldn't know the difference.

Combo allows them the capacity to do the larger 1080p encodes for the hd dvd and generally eliminates capacity issues while still keeping compatibility with all dvd players which clearly they would like to maintain:

We released American Gangster and put it on combo disc (with DVD format on one side and HD DVD format on the other), because if there was confusion about the future, you don't lose an investment because you have both an HD DVD and a DVD. Look at how many machines exist with DVD. We don't want to limit our customers; we want to be as consumer-friendly as possible. It's hard to communicate everything, but once you start getting into the mass world, word of mouth is also very important.

NM: Will all future Universal HD DVD releases be combination discs?

KG: All of our new releases that Universal has made since last September have been combo discs [with standard DVD on one side]. We have no plans to change that, and our retail partners are saying if you want to go to the mass market, you don't want to limit consumers into only being able to play it on one device.


Is it possible to move to Twin Disks instead of combos?
If the insider thread were not suddenly silenced perhaps that answer would have been forthcoming...

Whichever way (combo or twins), if they want to succeed, they need to completely do away with stand alone DVDs. The combos/twins will give the inflated sales numbers that HD DVD needs. If Sony can do it with their PS3 sales #s, then this would work the same.

Weren't Warner execs promising to support both formats only weeks before the announcement? I don't trust anything a corporate executive says.

Not a very good argument, Cliff.

Automobiles are a necessity, HDM is not -- it's a luxury.

It makes sense to have one HD format for mass adoption; otherwise, there will be confusion and HDM dies.

Sounds like something Henry Ford would of said of the model T.:rolleyes:

This was under discussion in the insider thread, which coincidentally was suddenly killed. According to insiders the Combo is expensive to replicate but the Twin disk is much easier and less costly, apparently more like a DVD and able to use standard DVD lines.

However current twin disk has a limited capacity with dual layers.
It would probably require that studios created 720p encodes for the hd dvd side similar to what is up on XBLM, although presumably even a bit better.

According to insider:


Combo allows them the capacity to do the larger 1080p encodes for the hd dvd and generally eliminates capacity issues while still keeping compatibility with all dvd players which clearly they would like to maintain:



Is it possible to move to Twin Disks instead of combos?
If the insider thread were not suddenly silenced perhaps that answer would have been forthcoming...

I was reading the insiders thread before it was locked, I remember reading that. But the poster I quoted was saying and I Quote:

"The only proven Twin is HD15/DVD5 and they fear that some DVD players can't handle that and the space is limited"

the part in red is what I was questioning.

Universal should, on the day before they ship American Gangster, announce to all retailers that, due to "manufacturing problems", the DVD has been postponed indefinitely and that all orders will be fulfilled with the HD DVD Combo version. Due to this "error", they will drop the MSRP to that of what the standard DVD was supposed to be.

I can dream, can't I? ;)

Now THAT is a trojan horse. I'm suprised they havent done this sooner......

Cliff

"We just made an announcement of our new HD DVD titles yesterday, with American Gangster." Did I miss something? Was there a title announcement? American Gangster does not equal titles, it equals title.

Would it be cheaper or more expensive for them to just include a HDDVD and a DVD in one package rather than combos or twin disks? I guess the only problem with that is that the consumer will have two physical copies of the movie.

I was reading the insiders thread before it was locked, I remember reading that. But the poster I quoted was saying and I Quote:

"The only proven Twin is HD15/DVD5 and they fear that some DVD players can't handle that and the space is limited"

the part in red is what I was questioning.

I see. I've never heard of problems with a combo disk playing in a standard dvd player. It would appear the dvd side is rock solid reliability. No reason to think the twin should be different, both after all are simply good ole DVD's on one side or layer.

The space limit I would think is an issue for Twins. For dual layers a 720p encode on the 15G side would probably work wonders but the dvd side might limit which movies are considered.

A triple layer twin would solve that issue. If Universal felt really committed they could probably introduce these disks into the DVD section of retailers and bypass all efforts by retailers to shut out hd dvd. The effort would have to be from a studio however as Toshiba with no content of their own couldn't do a thing.

In fact this would probably work even if Universal went semi-neutral by releasing a few of it's best selling releases on *gasp* blu-ray. The attraction of high def added to standard dvds would still reach mainstream consumers with no high def player.

Would it be cheaper or more expensive for them to just include a HDDVD and a DVD in one package rather than combos or twin disks? I guess the only problem with that is that the consumer will have two physical copies of the movie.

Guaranteed that a healthy chunk of consumers will sell off the extra disk, either the dvd copy or the high def copy. That equals lost sales for studios.

Exactly. For as long as Universal releases combo discs, is as long as I will spend my money elsewhere.

I'm not getting all this hatred for the combo discs. I think they are great!

The work in all the players, what the hell?:confused:

Are you all worried about disc art or something?

Funny, I can't see the disc when it's in the player or in its case.

I guess some people just like to hold 'em and look at the picture. Weird!:eek:

Nice interview but one thing that really hurts the consumer is continuing to release the movies in COMBO format which is hated across the world except the U.S. Instead of COMBO why can't they bundle HD DVD and SD DVD as a 2-disc collector's edition ?

Very enjoyable read! I loved all the arguements and it looks like Toshiba and its partners are really gonna fight till the end!

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

Nope. Likewise there are multiple CE manufacturers making BD players. Toshiba can jump in anytime it likes.

Once and for all people - A FORMAT IS NOT A PRODUCT YOU BUY. COMPETITION EXISTS WITHIN FORMATS.

Can't grasp this? OK - let me make it simple. DVD is a format. Query: is there competition among manufactures of DVD players. Answer - you betcha.

The fact that this very very basic point escapes everyone baffles me.

[B]
Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

Could you imagine your choice of car limiting what parts of the country you are allowed to drive in?

I'm not getting all this hatred for the combo discs. I think they are great!

The work in all the players, what the hell?:confused:

Are you all worried about disc art or something?

Funny, I can't see the disc when it's in the player or in its case.

I guess some people just like to hold 'em and look at the picture. Weird!:eek:

There is nothing weird about it at all.

I only watch a movie in the best possible manner or not at all. So that gives me absolutely no need for a low-quality, SD version of my movies to be glued onto the backside of my HD media.

I also consider myself a movie collector. So I never lend out my discs to anyone. They never come back in the same condition as they were lent out.

I also don't like the fact that there is no disc art. It makes it look like my movie is some bootleg I bought in some back alley.

The price is also unattractive. Especially considering that I have no use for the SD side of the disc. I don't like the idea of spending more for my movies for features that I will NEVER use.

Oh lets not forget the playback problems that people have. I'll let the daily combo problem threads that pop up here on a daily basis be a testament to that fact.

So in essence, Combo discs are the one format that I do not support. It's a third format in my eyes alongside HD DVD and Blu-ray.

As you can see, there are more than enough real reasons for my hatred of combo discs.

With combo pricing eclipsing standard DVD pricing and even being higher than some BR pricing, there's no way they are going to "undercut" anyone. They've got to find a way to get the pricing down to around $19.99 if the combo thing is going to take off. Of course, we know this won't happen, but hey..

Bingo...

Nope. Likewise there are multiple CE manufacturers making BD players. Toshiba can jump in anytime it likes.

Once and for all people - A FORMAT IS NOT A PRODUCT YOU BUY. COMPETITION EXISTS WITHIN FORMATS.

Can't grasp this? OK - let me make it simple. DVD is a format. Query: is there competition among manufactures of DVD players. Answer - you betcha.

The fact that this very very basic point escapes everyone baffles me.

And by the time HD-DVD is gone. I am guessing no later than mid summer, we will see all of that manufacturer competition lower BD prices so that it will be soon accepted by the masses... right?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
That is what has been preached by the Blu Ray fan base for some time now.
What will happen is collusion will set in at a rapid pace and prices will stay too high for the average consumer. Thus the creation of another laser disc format.

Craig

...The TL Twin (HD30/DVD5) is not out yet, so it is not proven technology in the many different players/firmware out there.

I do hope they can create Twin in the near future, combos are more expensive to create and there are a lot of people that don't like double sided discs.

My Toshiba HD-E1 states in the manual that it supports the Twin... so hopefully than means the 34/4.7 Twin as well :-)

And by the time HD-DVD is gone. I am guessing no later than mid summer, we will see all of that manufacturer competition lower BD prices so that it will be soon accepted by the masses... right?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
That is what has been preached by the Blu Ray fan base for some time now.
What will happen is collusion will set in at a rapid pace and prices will stay too high for the average consumer. Thus the creation of another laser disc format.

Craig

I would happily bet you everything I own that BD prices will fall, in time, as all virtually all consumer electronics products do.

Why am I so confident of this? Market economics.

I would happily bet you everything I own that BD prices will fall, in time, as all virtually all consumer electronics products do.

Why am I so confident of this? Market economics.

BD prices will fall, only to make room for the next profile player at the same price as the previous one.

That market economics thing is a killer...:p

Very enjoyable read! I loved all the arguements and it looks like Toshiba and its partners are really gonna fight till the end!

Here's something I read earlier on another thread and I completely agree (after all I wrote it :D )



The problem with encoding both the HD and SD version on the single disc is one thing. The date of conclusion. I can see where the studios want to avoid the extra cost of indefinite production of doing this. So here's the key to the whole mix. (If I understand correctly Toshiba owns the DVD license, if not none of this makes sense) TOSHIBA needs to put an end date to SD DVD production. Similar to what is being done to analog TVs right now. And one more thing. TOSHIBA needs to require a start date for ALL SD DVD's to start including a HD layer also.

First TOSHIBA could announce that on DEC 31 2009 (date for example) they will discontinue SD DVD production, and no longer license companies to continue using the format. (remember Sony does not have the right to the DVD title and cannot put it on the Blu disc) And announce that beginning Jan 1 2010 all DVDS will be HD DVD's only. This will give the public a warning of the upcomiing change. With the price of HD DVD players coming down the average consumer will be able to pick up a player by that date no problem. New players will be able to play ALL of your SD titles, but Old players will NOT be able to play the new format. This info can be put on the leader of all DVD releases. Plus other Player manufactures can fully get behind the date, further increasing the player selection, and generating lower player prices.

Second. Tosh needs to put a prior date on when all current studios MUST include a HD layer on all newly pressed discs, (say 10/15/2008)or the license to produce SD Discs will be cancelled (or not renewed). Major studios could be given a earlier date, and Indies could be given a later date in order to gear up. This will also help promote player sales, because all new discs will include the HD layer. This will also resolve the "confusion" that the consumer seems to be having. Specific times and dates.

I think the consumer will see this as normal, and will accept that this is the next generation of DVD technology. Also it would trump Blu at the SD level. Studios will be forced to make a decision. Either Soley support BLU and cancel all new SD production (not gonna happen), or comply and bring the consumer to the next generation of video entertainment. Game, set, match. Take the Bull by the HORNS.

Thoughts??? Or did I miss something?

The thread it was in was pretty much slowing down, so it didn't get much response.

Not a very good argument, Cliff.

Automobiles are a necessity, HDM is not -- it's a luxury.

It makes sense to have one HD format for mass adoption; otherwise, there will be confusion and HDM dies.

sorry but a automobile is not a necessity its a luxury aswell... water is a necessity...

Because apple is in bed with blue ray, Thats why!

Actually, that is one of the stupidest things to say about Apple, its the only major computer company that hasn't even acknowledged the existence of HD Media. The farthest they have gone is to include authoring support for BOTH formats in their DVD software. If anything, Apple has both of their numbers and is waiting for which one to call and jump in bed with. I mean honestly, even their highest end product has neither Blu or Red. Steve Jobs pretty much said what most people are seeing, it looks like Blu has pretty much won. Hell, I support HD DVD and I have a hard time not saying that.

And by the time HD-DVD is gone. I am guessing no later than mid summer, we will see all of that manufacturer competition lower BD prices so that it will be soon accepted by the masses... right?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
That is what has been preached by the Blu Ray fan base for some time now.
What will happen is collusion will set in at a rapid pace and prices will stay too high for the average consumer. Thus the creation of another laser disc format.

Craig

I believe you will see the prices reduce at a natural rate that will make it worth while companies involved to continue to support and manufacture product and grow the market.

I am sure consumers would always love to see the lowest prices but the price has to at least be sustainable for the companies involved to stay in that business. I doubt some of the current pricing models are sustainable which is not good for the consumers either.

It is not just Blu-ray vs HD-DVD; HD downloads will help drive the cost structure, HD VOD and HD movie channels, slow adoption from DVD will help drive the cost structure.

I don't think you will see collusion as for one thing it is illegal in Europe, Japan and the US, there are enough companies within Blu-ray marketplace (and more most likely coming) to have a competitive market as well as other external factors as well they have to compete against.

Would it be cheaper or more expensive for them to just include a HDDVD and a DVD in one package rather than combos or twin disks? I guess the only problem with that is that the consumer will have two physical copies of the movie.
Way too consumer friendly. Not going to happen.

KG: I'll go back to what we've said over and over: the set-top player is the primary movie device. If you look at the attach rate of how many movies are bought for dedicated HD DVD players versus how many movies were sold for the PS3 and the Blu-ray set-top players combined, it's a 4 to 1 gap. Which says that people who own game machines are not buying at the same rate as someone who owns a set-top. And on the DVD side, your primary player is a set-top.


December 07 - BD won the standalone player market with about 55%, before the Warner announcement.

So far in January, Blu-ray is at a 60%+ clip, including a 92% share in the week just closed.

The dedicated player argument is now a dead one so we're back to attach rate.

Mr. Graffeo is still employed for 3....2....1.....

It is not just Blu-ray vs HD-DVD; HD downloads will help drive the cost structure, HD VOD and HD movie channels, slow adoption from DVD will help drive the cost structure.


+1

People think the BDA companies are all lovey dovey on all fronts. They're not. Business is business and they'll compete with each other within the market itself, and your points about outside influences (Vod, Downloads, DVD market slowing, etc) are all spot on.

BD prices have fallen from $1000 per player to $299-$399 for Profile 1.1 players in 18 months. That's a $700 discount... and people still whine about the cost like they're -owed- a cheap player just because Toshiba's strategy was to bleed red to try to buy into a market they had no other means of getting into.

Nice interview but one thing that really hurts the consumer is continuing to release the movies in COMBO format which is hated across the world except the U.S. Instead of COMBO why can't they bundle HD DVD and SD DVD as a 2-disc collector's edition ?I don't think they'll do this because of the resale market. Shrek's original release had two disks, one for wide screen and one Pan and scan. Brilliant idea IMO, but I've not seen its like since.

Interesting read. I hope they stick it out. Competition is good for everyone.

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

Actually, in that comparison... HD DVD and Blu-ray are more a kin to the type of gas you put in it -- Diesel or Unleaded.

The model of car is more a kin to the movie... and yes there should be tons of movies, but for cars to be practical, they have to run on a common format (gas)... otherwise we'd have to have gas stations with tons of different things and nobody wants that.

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

or firearms :p ;)

-Gary

Good read, but the guy should've asked him about a twin format. That's the one thing I'd like to hear about.

...`

The model of car is more a kin to the movie... and yes there should be tons of movies, but for cars to be practical, they have to run on a common format (gas)... otherwise we'd have to have gas stations with tons of different things and nobody wants that.
Eventually, the stations will only sell the type of gas that most cars use.:cool:

Actually, in that comparison... HD DVD and Blu-ray are more a kin to the type of gas you put in it -- Diesel or Unleaded.

The model of car is more a kin to the movie... and yes there should be tons of movies, but for cars to be practical, they have to run on a common format (gas)... otherwise we'd have to have gas stations with tons of different things and nobody wants that.

Closer to octane grades. 98% will only buy the lowest and cheapest (DVD). Unless they are after performance.

Maybe leaded and unleaded is better comparison.
The different grades of gas and various mixtures and seasonal requirements. Ethanol and bio diesel.

specious arguments ether way, without diesel you'd not eat breakfast, without jet fuel no one would ever see their grandparents or In laws (maybe not a bad thing;)).

Common does not make something better or worse, DC and AC were competitors too, where would we be without them?

Competition does help in almost all things. US automotive manufactures would never have made improvements they did if the Japanese were never competitive.

Way too consumer friendly. Not going to happen.
I don't see the issue if Toshiba paid for it to happen (include an HD DVD along with the standard DVD in the same case). Do it with a high-profile title (like Cloverfield or Sweeney Todd, for example). They could include a small booklet explaining what HD DVD is and what it can do, along with a coupon to buy the Toshiba HD-A3 for $99. This could change things around overnight imo.

The combo trojan horse would make it worse to determine who's buying HD and who's buying it for SD. It'll be worse than the PS3 situation -- but of course, if sales figures are all we're worried about, then it would work in that case. Then instead of hd dvd fans saying "yeah, but the attach rate is low", now blu fans will say "Yeah, but the amount of them actually buying it for HD side is low".

However, if you only make combos for "NEW" (non-catalog) releases, you can phase out the DVD version completely, and with HD DVD players so low in price, along with advertising in the box that says "Are you getting the most out of this disc" (worded better of course) and a description of the HD side and how to use it, etc... New movies usually sell for around $15-$20 on DVD and a little more if they are double-disc sets. Someone will have to step in and eat some of this in order for it to happen. The studios probably arent going to, so they will have to sell for no more than $25 (but at that price it may put some regular SD owners off from buying it... kinda like Star Trek)

I don't dislike combo, but the arguments for it are not convincing for me:
1) If HD DVD dies, I now have a DVD side I can always use. Wow, so now I can watch it in worse quality (assuming I'm somehow never able to watch the HD side again).

2) I can bring it with me and play it anywhere with a DVD player.
a) And risk the HD DVD side getting ruined?
b) So that I dont need to upgrade all my players (No wonder why the hardware manufacturer's dont like the idea of HD DVD)

I dont really care about disc art. When I look at the disc, I'd like to see it, but as many others point out, you're exposure to the disc art is so short, it shouldn't matter. My main problem is the $5 extra it costs. Now, you can argue that Fox sells movies for 39.99 which is the same price as the most expensive combo disc, but everyone hates Fox pricing.

My hope is for dual format players to come down to a decent price before either format dies. This, will allow for mass adoption because there will be zero-worry about if the disc will play or not. But since neither side actually subsidizes the cost, it may be a while...

"But he does leave the door open to ending the format war by coming to some sort of an agreement with Blu-ray."

Good for HD DVD and BR. Nice read - thx for posting.

The combo trojan horse would make it worse to determine who's buying HD and who's buying it for SD. It'll be worse than the PS3 situation -- but of course, if sales figures are all we're worried about, then it would work in that case. Then instead of hd dvd fans saying "yeah, but the attach rate is low", now blu fans will say "Yeah, but the amount of them actually buying it for HD side is low".

However, if you only make combos for "NEW" (non-catalog) releases, you can phase out the DVD version completely

The first part would create a lot of bickering between the two camps that read the forums but I am guessing the companies have a relatively good idea of the truth when it comes to their products.

I see the issue with only having combo disks as this, the studios want to make money. If charging a few dollars more per disk resulted in too many DVD buyers not to purchase a disk and they lost revenue, they wouldn't want to do it. If they sold them for the same price so they never lose any of the DVD sales and HD-DVD never captures enough market share, then they won't want to do it either due to the added cost.

Dropping stand alone DVD's for only combos is a bet that HD-DVDs will hold a large amount of the market as to be worth the cost now as it most likely will result in lower DVD revenue or added overall costs.

With the uncertainty of HD-DVD being a major format (and that could be said even if they came out on top), I doubt they would be willing to make that bet.

I think if the studios can agree on a ~$3 premium for a combo disc vs. DVD on new releases, it will have little impact on the consumer (at least for blockbusters). Would transformers sales have been that much lower if it was $18 instead of $15 upon release?

Personally, I think toshiba has known they a garanteed a spot in this war, regardless of major studio support... they essentially control the DVD market and as reefstar said above, have the power/influence of the DVD forum to force the transition into HDM. This would is explain their lazy marketing... What if warner knew this too, but decided to accept a large sum of cash in exchange for waiting to jump back into HDDVD a year or 2 later. There really isn't much to lose for the studios right now, so why not take the cash.

Does it really make sense to pit blu-ray up against DVD alone? DVD would never let up!
If toshiba can slowly/naturally suppliment it's DVD royalties into HDDVD I think we'll see the public switch to HDM much more rapidly/smoothly compared to a BD vs DVD war.

I think if the studios can agree on a ~$3 premium for a combo disc vs. DVD on new releases, it will have little impact on the consumer (at least for blockbusters). Would transformers sales have been that much lower if it was $18 instead of $15 upon release?

Yes, I think it would have an impact on the consumers, otherwise they would have just raised the price by $3 regardless of being a combo of not. I think they most likely have models on different prices and try to set the price at a level that maximizes the revenue/return already.

If you think that adding $3 for a combo would not have meant sales would drop to a point to offset the increase in price, then why wouldn't they just raise the price of the DVD by $3 without the combo to even maximize profits even more?

I think if the studios can agree on a ~$3 premium for a combo disc vs. DVD on new releases, it will have little impact on the consumer (at least for blockbusters). Would transformers sales have been that much lower if it was $18 instead of $15 upon release?

...

New special edition releases on SD DVD are $25. Dropping off to $15..20 several weeks after release or sooner if it's not selling that good.


Combo pricing should be in line with SD special edition prices.

Special edition releases can be exclusivly on a combo.
The normal edition can be on a SD DVD.

or firearms :p ;)

-Gary

What up yo? :)

I seem to have stirred up a thrivy of comments in regards to the whole automobile thing...........

I suppose I should have put a different spin on it but do stand by my opinion that if it wasn't for this format war, I could only imagine what life would be like right now if we only had Blue Ray all of this time..........

I could add more, but that I feel is all that needs to be said......... :)

Cliff

Yes, I think it would have an impact on the consumers, otherwise they would have just raised the price by $3 regardless of being a combo of not. I think they most likely have models on different prices and try to set the price at a level that maximizes the revenue/return already.

If you think that adding $3 for a combo would not have meant sales would drop to a point to offset the increase in price, then why wouldn't they just raise the price of the DVD by $3 without the combo to even maximize profits even more?


I'm not up on DVD pricing, I was using the $3 as an example. The point is, I think Toshiba has been observing what blu-ray does. They then can decide whether to spend more resources on protecting DVD sales or HD DVD sales against Blu-ray. If HD DVD "fails" do you expect them to give their DVD revenue to BD?

I'm not up on DVD pricing, I was using the $3 as an example. The point is, I think Toshiba has been observing what blu-ray does. They then can decide whether to spend more resources on protecting DVD sales or HD DVD sales against Blu-ray. If HD DVD "fails" do you expect them to give their DVD revenue to BD?

I was thinking about the studios pricing decisions, not what Toshiba might subsidize. But I think they would still take a huge risk, Transformers alone sold something like 8 million DVDs in the first week alone. Having to pay $1 or $3 or $5 per DVD is a large sum given that it is unlikely they could win the war. There is no certainty that even a single format is going to approach anywhere near the size of market that DVDs are now. So to subsidize every DVD to be a combo disk would most likely never yield the return to justify the cost.

I was thinking about the studios pricing decisions, not what Toshiba might subsidize. But I think they would still take a huge risk, Transformers alone sold something like 8 million DVDs in the first week alone. Having to pay $1 or $3 or $5 per DVD is a large sum given that it is unlikely they could win the war. There is no certainty that even a single format is going to approach anywhere near the size of market that DVDs are now. So to subsidize every DVD to be a combo disk would most likely never yield the return to justify the cost.

Even further, the studios aren't even the ones really fighting the war. The war is between Toshiba and Sony, and as much as Universal may like HD DVD and/or Toshiba they are not going to sacrifice their own profits to the massive scale that is being discussed here in order to help Toshiba out.

This is all fine and dandy, but I want them to put their money where their mouth is and start pushing some movies out for HD DVD. Without content, I don't care how cheap players are, people just aren't going to buy it if they can't find any movies they want to watch.

...massive scale that is being discussed here in order to help Toshiba out.

Massive as in DVD? Not happening for quite some time.

"From a strictly consumer standpoint, HD DVD seems to make the most sense: players are cheaper, combination discs are possible, which enables a smooth transition. Blu-ray players are still in flux and current models except the PS3 won't be upgradable to Profile 2.0. Blu-ray is pitching players that will be obsolete in a year, and discs that lack the interactivity found on HD DVD. Why hasn't there been more of a marketing message on this from HD DVD?"

Interesting read. I hope they stick it out. Competition is good for everyone.

Could you imagine having only one choice in automobile company?

Cliff

Yes...Toyota.

I can't believe another thread to talk about Universal's staying red turned into another combo/twin/gun/automobile debate... I'm shocked.

Sounds good to me... I still think Toshiba has a trick up its sleeve to land a big fish Buena Vista... We could be talking not hundreds of millions in financial support but somewhere in the billions...


Question posed again:


Who actually has contracts, hard binding contracts with either format?

my guess is, we shall see a push at the superbowl leading to American Gangster date for hd-dvd.

American Gangster + Beowolf should set for an interesting combo. i wonder how it will be promoted.

shame we still have to wait a month to see how it will pan out. but really looking forward to that date.

American gangster and Beowulf are the 2 most important titles for HD DVD right now.

Im sure the BDA gonna use a BOGO to counter it.

But if HD DVD can push the titles in 150 000+ range it wuold be good for the format.

And by the time HD-DVD is gone. I am guessing no later than mid summer, we will see all of that manufacturer competition lower BD prices so that it will be soon accepted by the masses... right?? :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
That is what has been preached by the Blu Ray fan base for some time now.
What will happen is collusion will set in at a rapid pace and prices will stay too high for the average consumer. Thus the creation of another laser disc format.

Craig


If HD DVD does die watch the greedy Blu Ray consortium jack up their prices for discs and players. If there is concern that the HD format is a niche industry it will definitely be a niche industry because of the monopoly by Blu Ray and the subsequent price increase. Despite all the controversy over HD DVD and Blu Ray dividing the market, it's this competition which has made the HD format less expensive for the consumer and without J6P's participation Blu Ray will be a niche market.

This is all fine and dandy, but I want them to put their money where their mouth is and start pushing some movies out for HD DVD. Without content, I don't care how cheap players are, people just aren't going to buy it if they can't find any movies they want to watch.

Wrong. The early adopters will suffer due to small content, but J6P, who hasn't even dipped his toes in the HD war, will jump in to fuel the drive for more content because the hardware is cheap.

american gangster is a niche movie and Beowulf flopped...If these two titles are expected to save the format, they are in big trouble.

american gangster is a niche movie and Beowulf flopped...If these two titles are expected to save the format, they are in big trouble.


Beowulf worldwide gross = $193,193,722

Both American Gangster and Beowulf is movies that should work very well on homeentertainent basis.

Many people skip the movies just because they plan to buy the movies later.


I didnt see either in the cinemas, but plan buying both.

Many people skip the movies just because they plan to buy the movies later.

Word!:D

Beowulf worldwide gross = $193,193,722

Both American Gangster and Beowulf is movies that should work very well on homeentertainent basis.

Many people skip the movies just because they plan to buy the movies later.


I didnt see either in the cinemas, but plan buying both.

+1

I am greatly looking forward to these films.

Post deleted. Don't bother posting garbage in this thread.

Thanks,

Kyser

american gangster is a niche movie and Beowulf flopped...If these two titles are expected to save the format, they are in big trouble.

You're kidding, right??

I just bought into Blu-Ray after the Warner announcement, but these 2 films remain BY FAR the best new release titles coming on either format. And Bee Movie is probably right behind them for family fare. What does Blu-Ray have for day & date announced titles besides Enchanted (which is obviously for pre-teen girls -- is that you?)

American Gangster tallied well over $100 million in the US box-office while Beowulf pulled in over $80 million. You want to discuss flops? How about Fox's Hitman which was just announced or Sony's The Waterhorse? These were legitimate flops, as was Mr Magorium's Wonder Emporium or 30 Days Of Night. Take away I Am Legend (which is also coming to HD DVD) and Blu-Ray's release slate is junk. I'm more excited for Life Of Brian, Crimson Tide, Commando, and Predator, which I already pre-ordered.

You're kidding, right??

I just bought into Blu-Ray after the Warner announcement, but these 2 films remain BY FAR the best new release titles coming on either format. And Bee Movie is probably right behind them for family fare. What does Blu-Ray have for day & date announced titles besides Enchanted (which is obviously for pre-teen girls -- is that you?)

American Gangster tallied well over $100 million in the US box-office while Beowulf pulled in over $80 million. You want to discuss flops? How about Fox's Hitman which was just announced or Sony's The Waterhorse? These were legitimate flops, as was Mr Magorium's Wonder Emporium or 30 Days Of Night. Take away I Am Legend (which is also coming to HD DVD) and Blu-Ray's release slate is junk. I'm more excited for Life Of Brian, Crimson Tide, Commando, and Predator, which I already pre-ordered.

The game plan and enchanted will both sell more than bee movie (Ice Age and Mr Magorium just might too.) Hitman should be a pretty nice seller on BD considering it's an unrated cut and the PS3 effect will be in full force. Gangster is more than likely going to be one of the most rented flicks ever simply because everyone skipped it at the theater and will want to take a look.

That said, my HD DVD copy of Beowulf (this title screams HD) is already pre-ordered!

Nice to hear, now we just need to see a lot more Universal titles...

Beowulf worldwide gross = $193,193,722

Both American Gangster and Beowulf is movies that should work very well on homeentertainent basis.

Many people skip the movies just because they plan to buy the movies later.

I didnt see either in the cinemas, but plan buying both.

i skipped Beowulf in the theaters b/c they put out a pg13 version of the movie when there's a friggin R-rated trailers available on the net. decided then to wait for it on video, though i will have to hope for Paramount to re-support blu-ray to get it in high def.

If Universal wants to make this interesting, or put up a fight give us the big guns. Jaws, American Graffiti, Scarface, Back to the Future, Alfred Hitchcock, Jurassic Park, Shakespeare in Love and Gladiator. I could go on, but I think the point has been made. Stellar movies that just can't be seen in Blu.

Universal if your listening, keep 'Mobsters' and give us anything from the list above!

If Universal wants to make this interesting, or put up a fight give us the big guns. Jaws, American Graffiti, Scarface, Back to the Future, Alfred Hitchcock, Jurassic Park, Shakespeare in Love and Gladiator. I could go on, but I think the point has been made. Stellar movies that just can't be seen in Blu.

yet :D

chances are those titles won't come out until we are at one single format.

If Universal wants to make this interesting, or put up a fight give us the big guns. Jaws, American Graffiti, Scarface, Back to the Future, Alfred Hitchcock, Jurassic Park, Shakespeare in Love and Gladiator. I could go on, but I think the point has been made. Stellar movies that just can't be seen in Blu.

Universal if your listening, keep 'Mobsters' and give us anything from the list above!

It's crazy how 25-30 catalog titles could literally change the face of the "war", but all the major studios involved refuse to release them!

It's crazy how 25-30 catalog titles could literally change the face of the "war", but all the major studios involved refuse to release them!

those titles may be very enticing to us, but they will not change the face of the war. they're likely to sell, all combined together, as many units as Transformers alone.

those titles may be very enticing to us, but they will not change the face of the war. they're likely to sell, all combined together, as many units as Transformers alone.

You may be right, but it still creates a dilemma for those owning a BR player. I can tell you, had I gone Blu first, I would have definitely purchased an HDDVD player b/c of the Matrix Trilogy, Bourne Trilogy, King Kong, Seabiscuit and especially Batman Begins.

Those are compelling reasons, at least for me, to have a player from Toshiba in my home theatre.

those titles may be very enticing to us, but they will not change the face of the war. they're likely to sell, all combined together, as many units as Transformers alone.

I think the Star Wars films, the Indy films, the LotR films, the Godfather films, The Titanic, and E.T. would combine for a few more copies than Transformers...

Not really related, but Heath Ledger was found dead in his apt today.

Not really related, but Heath Ledger was found dead in his apt today.

Geez, only 28 years old.

If HD DVD does die watch the greedy Blu Ray consortium jack up their prices for discs and players. If there is concern that the HD format is a niche industry it will definitely be a niche industry because of the monopoly by Blu Ray and the subsequent price increase. Despite all the controversy over HD DVD and Blu Ray dividing the market, it's this competition which has made the HD format less expensive for the consumer and without J6P's participation Blu Ray will be a niche market.

For reasons I mentioned before, this just is not likely to happen. HD-DVD is not the only competitor in town. The BDA needs BD to succeed, not just win over HD-DVD. I don't think you understand what a monopoly is.

Thread rolled back to remove off-topic and insulting posts. Some legitimate posts may have been lost in the rollback.

I have a genuine question and I am expecting a genuine reply. Please do not take it in an offensive way.

If Ken Graffeo himself is stressing so much on American Gangster then why did his company decide to drop the EXTENDED VERSION AND the TRUE HD track ? There is nothing wrong in giving us the theatrical version but why should they drop True HD track on such a high profile release ? At this tough time the HD DVD fans are expecting something huge from UNIVERSAL which unfortunately doesn't look to happen considering the recent title announcements.

I have a genuine question and I am expecting a genuine reply. Please do not take it in an offensive way.

If Ken Graffeo himself is stressing so much on American Gangster then why did his company decide to drop the EXTENDED VERSION AND the TRUE HD track ? There is nothing wrong in giving us the theatrical version but why should they drop True HD track on such a high profile release ? At this tough time the HD DVD fans are expecting something huge from UNIVERSAL which unfortunately doesn't look to happen considering the recent title announcements.

I think real movie fans do not really nitpick on minor details like TrueHD or DD+ tracks. :rolleyes:

Now extended version would be something to argue about. Can you say 'double dip'? (fno aka 'pulling a Disney')

So it's business as usual I'm afraid.

You mentioned 'drop' True HD track. Was it originally planned as TrueHD track?

Yes. Similar to King Kong I don't mind the theatrical version but why should they drop the already announced DTHD and bring in DD+ ?

BD prices will fall, only to make room for the next profile player at the same price as the previous one.


Thank you...